Recruitment Stories and Career Paths

coming up on this episode of Mind the Game. It's round this time. The draft comes up the first day that comes up Bron's Draft day suit. Yeah. Do you like anyone in the draft? Kid AJ that played at BYU, obviously the Booer twin downunner Duke. The kid that's kind of around my ways from You know the surrounding areas of Akron Can area there in Peterson. Let's talk about what we learned this year. T be able to add depth, be able to add youth, continue with the pace. The pace is not slowed down. I think that's kind of the ingredients for where our league is. One of the things that I also think really hurts older teams is defensive transition I don't know when that when that changed, that it was more beneficial to do the individual workouts over the five on five play through the summer. I don't know when like the most important person in the summertime was the trainer and not the player. R. I know y'all gonna be with Brian. We ain't se know five on five cl you lately. Yin't ain't Marshla Al. I think a lot of our viewers that watch her, they're sitting here like, playay ball. Like he's speaking the game. I think a lot of people know that you really play ball. Marshla played at Saint Mary's. Yeah. I played at Santa Clara same year. Yeah. Arch rival schools natural survivals. It's so wonderful seeing you after last time I saw you was about thirty years ago. before heading into the draft. So this is a real profound full circle moment for me because I think about you. from time to time in a way that I feel like has really resonated as one of my biggest life lessons We have the NBA draft. Yeah It's crazy. I mean, for me, thirty years Wow Wow You're still fucking playing That's crazy That's crazy. Oh man. Oh man. but yeah, That's some incredible memories for me. O our draft experiences were were different. I was a senior.. was a fifteenth pick, both in incredible drafts. I still remember my agent, Bill Duffy getting me a suit with his tailor. You could have got half of mine and I'll still able to fit mine. Somehow somehow I look back at the choice of tie and the white socks for some reason was like a limb you could go on in ninety six Listen, there's nothing you can explain right now to be comparable to what the fuck I wore in my draft twenty three years ago. I can vaguely see your. I can It won't leave me. It's like's like Asperate a friendly ghost. It like never it's round this time. The draft comes up the first day that comes up The Bronze Draft day suit, you know, rest in peace You know the late David Stern, you know, him trying on my jacket in the back. Yeah. literally just got lost right away. So it's probably too late, but this could be a public service announcements, of the dudes in the draft, L like this will never leave you. No This will never It would never leave you. It would never leave you. The one thing I know about your draft and every time I think about it The ninety six draft, besides you guys being one of the greatest drafts of all time, obviously, is that slam cover shoot that you guys did. Yeah. That photo, I had that in my room when I stayed in Spring Hills on my wall with all you guys there. Where was that? Did you guys shoot that in Jersey? It was actually I want to say Nar Orlando N Orland was It's been thirty years. I w to over here. It was, I think we had rookie orientation and they did all the media st was there. They Could have been. That's one of the cldest pictchures of all time. I feel like it was like out of middle school or high school. Remember Kobe had he had a cast on him, right? Because ye broke his hand or something like that Coming into the draft I think there' someone missing. I can't I should know this is we're gonna to talk about missing. Sometimes I can know I remember who was was Steph was there? Stefan was there? Yeah. He was there. AI was there Yeah John Wallace was there. Yeah. Ray. Ray Canby. you Carry Kittdles. Carriry Kiddles. W Ericwine Walker Eric Dampier, was he in yall draft as well? Was it AI that I was missing? Allen might have been missing. Missing busizy Yeah Buba chuck. Oh good old Buba chuck. this thing. Oh man. Yeah, great great draft. That'svable draft. yeah, man. that was incredible. lot. guys definitely top top two, greatest draft of all time. It was fun. What What do you remember like for me the toughest part about the draft is like family and friends, just making sure everyone's situated. You're trying to experience this But you want them all to like experience it with you? Yeah. I mean, no, I mean, you just said it right there. I'm getting a head of thinking about it. I feel like the whole city of Akron like let me just give you Oh my go. Oh my God, don't do it to me, Steve. I think the whole city of Akron made their way to New York City Either by plane tras, automile everybody. I know. How long is that drive? I don't know. How long is the drive to New York from Akron? It eight hours? I know my uncle, my mom's younger brother, my uncle, drove because he' he don't like flying. So I remember him and a few of my other family members drove. I know some of my best friends, either For drove It was a lot So were you Medals U we had No, I was Garden. I Madon Garden. Yeah. We were Madalines. Yeah. We was Madison Square Garden. It was a swamp. It was a lot. I had I didn't have a great time. Yeah. I was happy as hell. It was a beautiful moment. We celebrated a little bit after the draft, but it was a lot. Yeah, it was a lot Yeah. differentifferent experience when you know like your draft night's over in two minutes, I was like, I have no idea where I'm going. Was you in the green room? I was in the green room. Okay. Well you didn't wait that long. You said fifteen fifteen. Did Did you have a sense of like, oh shit, I might be fifteen to twenty ten to fifteen. I thought it was like late lottery to twenty Late lottery twenty kind of right in the. there. o. But you know that night like I mean, you don't know, but it can be a little nervy when you knew you're like I know where I'm going. Yeah, I know. I'm like I could be moving to seven different places. so that's always fun. I mean, good luck to these dudes. Do you like anyone in the draft? you know who do you What do you think of these? I mean, I don't know a lot of the kids in the draft. Obviously I know some of the big names, you know, the kid AJ, they played at BYU, obbviously the boozer twwin down or at Duke U the kid that's kind of around my w from, you know, the surrounding areas of Akron Cant area, Darren Peterson from there. Yeah. so and he's he's a great talent. I know the kid down there in North Carolina Caleb Wilson is a dynamic player as well. It's going to be a lot of guys that's going to, you know, either be drafted you know, and come into the game and be excited. You know, I think what these guys need to understand is like one Your dream is coming true. you know, and you know just try to take it all in, take the draft all in, enjoy with you and your friends and family. And then you know, but understand like wherever you are, this was what I felt. I knew I was gonna be the number one to pick in the draft, but I knew as soon as the draft ended, I had to start from scratch And I was not coming into the NBA number one. So I had to put the work in and I know a lot of these kids, they do work hard, but it's about putting the work in when the cameras are not rolling. So you know, I know social media is a big thing if people want to post everything, but like just lock in on your craft and you can be very successful with our league. That's a great point though, because like the draft is a moment in time. and like all these guys are developing, right? And There's this moment in time and they're all in different directories and you try to say like What their gifts are, their skills are, But the biggest thing to me and what you're saying is their personality Yeah. Like how much they love the game, How competitive are they? How much are they willing to work when no one's watching? That's where you can't project after that moment in time where you say, I take this kid. If he ends up to be like doesn't actually love the game as much as we thought, you have a problem No you have a big problem. right. That's why guys in the second round are undrafted, you know end up being incredible players because they had that heart that world desire. So that's always the fascinating part about the draft is like, yeah, you can see like the top four, five, six guys. This is a tremendous draft talent wise. But who are those other guys that just love this game? They're nineteen now When the time they're twenty three, twenty four, twenty five, they're going to pass bunch Absolutely. And if you're a kid that expected to go on the first round and you don't get going in the first round, youre going the second round Th Nicole Yokts, Th, Draay Mongarine. If you're a kid that was projected going a second round, you become undrafted, think awome reads. You know Wall Bin Wallace. like Aesome read.. So like it's not it's not the ender of the world, you know, just keep putting into work, you know, and when your number is called, just be ready and prove yourself right. Don't prove anybody else wrong. You know, I know we all have that that, you know, I'm gonna prove everybody wrong ro yourself rightvers you versus you. Yeah That's autom matter. The Boozer fascinates me. You know, he's kind of in this top group here with these guys that are like off the charts athletes. So it's almost like a mark against him. but he's so smart, size, skilled, you know, like those at the end of the day, like, you know, it doesn't matter who you can dunk on if you can't read and react, play. So it's like he is next to these guys that are like Incredible athletes. But he's so good, so skilled, big. I could see him being a guy that you underestimated this dp. And I mean, I play with his dad. So, you know,. Yeah, right? Another old moment for me. Lose. Yeah. And I play with his dad. and his dad was kind of the same They have the same projection. wasasn't the tallest you know, he Under size four Uersize four wasn't The most athletic, you know, and then, you know, we saw what he was able to do, you know I think he multiple all stars, you know, got the max a couple of times and you know, Utah gave him the max, you know, So like great great career, you know. And so it doesn't the narrative of what you or what people are saying you are' never the end of the story. Like you make your career what you want your career to be And like I said, when you get the opportunity to just make the most of. Yeah, for sure. Well, good luck to all those. Absolutely. All the luck to the twenty twenty six draft class. It's going to be fun. Let's talk about what we learned this year deeppth. I think we learned that last year. We learned that last. We learned that last year, but we learned it again year. It's even more pronounced think this year. You know, I'll say it again, but last year seeing Rick Carlisle play lineups fourth quarter of the finals And I was like, I think a lot of coaches would have given up on these guys. He stuck with them. He developed because he had an identity. We're going to pick up full court. Yeah. We're going to play at a frenetic pace. We have that You know, air traffic control offense through the, you know, the foulline extended area and it takes a lot of energy. This year, people will double down. more people start picking up full court. So depth is important. And then the second part that's coupled with that is youth. The Spurs the second youngest finalist since the merger from the the ABA. And OK, see last year was the third youngest ever to win That's That's right there. It's the pace, man. Like you said, if you want to if you want to be able to wear teams down and but also build a lot of te are building that that that stamina. You know, let's start early. Let's build it up, you know, but you got to have, you know, you got to have that dept. Yeah. You got to have that youth. Yeah, you know, and and I think a lot of teams kind of saw what what Indiana did last year Obviously we, you know, we talked about this a long time ago in one of our episodes It's a copycat Lague, man. you know, So having dep, having youth, you know, long athletic wings, you know, dynamic shooters, dynamic guys that could do multiple things pass youo, dribble. You know, that's where the league is trending. And and we have two teams in the finals right now that has length Dpth and shooting and playmaking is one of the youngest teams since the merger. and we have one was more of the veterans side of the things. But yeah, what we learned this year is that it continued from the previous year. You know, to be able to add depth, be able to add youth, continue with the pace, the pace has not slowed down Um Yeah, I think that's kind of ingredients for where our league is, you know, at the and we've sort of mentioned it but the picking up full court. Yeah the physicality, you know, you have so many guys like just outside the top of the key to the half court. you can just mul dudes likeike you can get into the ball, bump and hit, you know, it gets different when you get in the paint, but like that physicality from the other teams basket You know,, so you're trying to play withace. they're trying to stop you playing with. They're getting into bodyies physical. So one of the things that I also think really hurts older teams is defensive transition. It is not the strength of older dudes to change ends uphill Right, You know, so to speak.iter you got to be one thing or other. Right. Like it's either because you know, now They're telling every team to crash. We shoot a lot of threes, crash through the elbows, get extra possessions What an older team If you if you crash Nine times out of ten, Yes, theyin't going to be able to get back vers these younger teams. So it's like You got to be one or the other. You either got to be a dynamic team that wants extra possessions or you got to be a team that protects transition points Soon as that ball go up, just like the first drill, you kind of one of the first drills you ever did when you start playing basketball. Ball goes up turn and sprint, you know, and get back. So it can't be no in between. if you're the one of the oldest teams in the league or you one of the older teams If you we call it limbo rate. If you in limbo Yeah, you going to give up a lot of double digit points in transition for sure. Yeah. And I think that's what hurts the older teams is that they don't have that optionalityight. They got to get back. got to protect because they can't do both.. So I think that's where some of these teams are getting to younger and younger more athletes deeper on the bench. guysuys that can play defense. canan they make a three? Okay, we can go eight nine, ten de Especially in the regular season. there's guys that get you through the regular season that don't play in the pl, but they helped players one through five six No question Get through the regular season onc so to speak. That's like, you know, piggybacking or going back to like the points of transition.'s one of the things that's so much different from when You entered the league when I entered the league. it wasn't, you know, a five man fast break. you know, you had a couple guys that can get out and transition, but you know, you didn't, you know, most of the big manans back in the day they was not running from baseline to baseline, you know, you know, they wasn't you didn't have a lot of point forwards that can grab the rebound and push the break and you three other guys either you had the two guys running to the corners and one running to the forty five, you know, So, you know, that's that's the difference between, you know, the game is just continue to evolve and, you know you, for example, the the five back in the day Defensive transition. It was like because we weren't pushing the pace like that. they didn't have as much responsibility in defensive transition.. They could kind of prod their way back if it wasn't a clear fast break. now running off makes misses trying to turn people over. you need your five to able to get back be more plug gaps pllug gaps. Yeah Lad to the basket Low to the ball. Yeah, you have to do that. So let me as the wise sage, you've seen it all. Let me ask you this big picture question You know clearly we're getting younger because we're picking up four cort, we're playing faster, we're shooting deeper. So the game has become like it's almost like we're playing on a court that's twwice the size it was thirty years ago. If you don't make the playoffs, you have five months off, five plus Five ish plus months off. Should we extend the time because we're never coming off this eighty two, it appears. Should the season be two, three, four weeks longer? Should we start in the second First, second, third week of September So you have more time and maybe it cuts our summer. I know you're sitting there going, man, I got tea time. You know are are you asking me this question? Be you're the one still playing D you already know cut the summer? I mean It's a give and take? Yeah, it's a g and take. I mean, I don't see it being a negative. You know. I don't see it being a negative. I think anyime when you want to do something different, you're gonna have some Yeah, you know, you're gonna have some people be like, no, fucking of our summer, you know, all that type of shit. but like, you know, if it's beneficial and we think it benefits our sport then it's no, you know, maybe you just try maybe you try one year. Yeah or try it for ten days try for ten days days and see what happens. But I don't know. I think, you know, there's always as the game continues to evolve and we get, you know to a point we have to start retooling at some point and see, okay, what do we need to do to keep it fresh? Yeah you know, keep our game flowing and keep it game fresh Oh I think it's a great point. It's like individual players need to work out differently. Yeah. rightight? Well this version of the NBA, maybe we need to tweak. Yeah. the way we play. We can't just say, okay, we're going to do the same way they did in the fifties and sixties. No, you absolutely cannot. You absolutely cannot. You can't wait, you know, I mean, guys are not taking much time off after the season to get back on the court Because it's too much buildu and the game is so much faster now. you can't be you know, you used to have the ability to kind of use training camp and use like preseason to kind of get into the rhythm, you know, but now with so many we're playing so much faster, you know, and soft tissue injuries are happening T reoccurr now that you have to start the body moving a lot sooner than we maybe did back in the day. What about it feels like from my generation to this generation, I don't know how many generations are in between there, they play less and they do more individual work. Yeah, it's kind of nasty Like I guess what I'm getting at is I think everything's evolved for the positive and mostly. But one thing is like then you get into a season where the demands are so big and you haven't played as much, that ramp up is steep. I don't know when that when that changed that it was more beneficial to do individual workouts over the five on five play through the summer. I don't know when that changed I don't know when like the most important person in the summertime was the trainer and not the player. Like the the basketball trainer is the most important guy in the summer. I don't know when it's shifted from star in the gym? Yeah Yeah, I didn't know. I don't know when that dynamic shifted because you know, we used to play and a lot of my friends can have tested this likeike even when I got in NBA You know, I built like a little basketball court in my backyard in Akron, you know, at my house I will get nine other guys and we will play in the summertime on a black court. likeike we would play like twice two to three times a week Yeah, you know, and just get up and run and feel like the demands of being outside and also demands of another body like bumping, bumping and grinding and things of that nature. And this was like in like July. Yeah, you know Yeah, I don't know, man. I think it's very important though. I think guys, if you're listening, you gotta play more, if it's not five on five least, you know, two on twos, three on threerees, like you gota get physical contact, you know, a couple times a week, three times a week, and not just you and a trainer or a cone or something like that. You can do both. You can literally show up thirty five minutes before the run get some individual work, play fives and then get some more individual if you want to shoot afterward, you can do both. But the summer workout of Hey, man, I'll meet you in the gym one on one, you know, and then I'll see you that's where we're going to be this. Yeah. it's not that actually breaks your's going to break your body down Yeah, you know when it comes to to the marathon. I think correct for the physical adaptation, but also for the skill transferring. like you're going to spend a lot of time working on your skills. You have to transfer into a real environment, not just like show up to You know, a week before the season to start playing basketball and expect that skill to transfer without going live against somebody. Yeah, you gott to go live. like you got to go live. I think I think it's very beneficial. It's very I know people can like, well we'll see you play a lot, but I'm also like I you've done enough Yeah I've done enough live guys. All right, please don't bring me into this. I know y'all going be with Bron. We't seeen know five with five clicks with you lately Yt and yin't I'm forty one years old, yin't. I'm giving pass. and everybody can be Kyrie Irvin, you know Kyrie Irvin is one of the most gifted basketball players of all time. So they see him and they see his workouts and they're like one's king. playay any day Yeah Kyrie he's special Understand it. That's great And now over to our producer Jason for a word from one of our partners. Thanks to Draft Kings for sponsoring the show. This summer, the cup is heading to the US and only Draft Kings has you covered every step of the way. 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Bet with DK Sports Book, Gambling probleblem call one eight hundred gambler. one eight hundred My reset, New York called eight hundred seven seven eight Hopeen Wire, teext Hope and Y. Connecticut, called eight seven eight nine seven seven seven seven where visit CCPG dot orgot onn behalf of Bootho Casino in Kansas. That that text pass through may apply in Illinois. twenty one and over. Void in Ontario, event contract trading with Draft Kings predictions involves risk loss. Sportsbook bonus bets expire in seven days. fifty dollars in predictions dollars issued weekly for three weeks expire in one year. Deem one non withdrawable reward. Availability varies Predictions offer Void in New York ends june twenty eighth. Terms at DKNG dot co slash audio Herschel Gilmore. There you go. you guys don't know that. What's that? Herschel Gilmore. That's. Maherschel Ali is I was born Maherschel Al Hashbas Gilmore.. And so my nickname was Herschel Gilmore. Herschel? Yeah, yes. You said the family back in Oans? They're up there right now I have family up there. My grandma's up there, so we're just kind of doing a weekend family trip. N. I gotta go to work soon, so I gott to get in all the moments I can right now. You on press tour location kind location Yeah. What are you hiding? And a little of later on we'll be doing a little press stuff and everything ar kids? I got a nine year old How amazing. How many kids you got? F? F, Wow.. Yeah, from Bronnie's age down to six.s She'll be seven. the youngest. Yeah, I'm in my lawn chair at the practices. Doing it again. It's great. I mean, I love it. Yeah. I love it. I'm so glad I'm doing it again.. There's no way I can do it No, giveive yourself a little time. No. No. What What is the What are some of the things that you found that that sort of like feed the As a former athlete, there's a certain thing that doesn't turn off that is like just instinctive to you growing up playing sports and understanding the cycle of beginning and middle end, training for something before you are conscious of what training is. And then at some point down the road it stops for you right? And some people it's a lot longer than others Right But I found that Fortunately for me, there was such a smooth transition into like finding something else in terms of like a stumbling to the arts that I found that so many of the things that I learn and who apply It's too many things to name. Almost like another sport now. Too many things to name. So it's like I have a former education that gives me like a bunch of tools into like how to apply towards this whole other space. Some things don't apply, but a lot of things do. I'm wondering for yourself How is that sort of articulated itself? Clearly I know one thing coaching, but it may not even be as on the nose as like sport to sport type things. Like that need to like break something down, learn from it, criticize yourself, like that thing that feels very natural. I feel like if you don't begin to find that in other ways in your life, it's not about sport and competition. It's about like a frequency of energy. If you don't find that could be a little rough. I'm curious, what are some of the things that you Kind of how'd you address that? Sure. So what I'll ask you before I tell you is like a kid who went to Juill Aard has an advantage over you. But did you have an advantage, you think over some of those that grew up because you came from a different place? I think the element of team, like understanding team. I think you would imagine actors understanding. But they can be some of the most selfish people you've ever been around Athletes you assume are selfish, but actually inherently understand certain things about team so naturally in their bones. even if you understand, I got to come off the bench and I got to score. I have to. I have to come off the bench and defend or I got to come off the bench and be diving on the ground. And like if that's your only contribution You collectively, there's something The team knows what you did. Even if the audience doesn't val value and doesn't totally get like that charge you took, what that changed the momentum energy of the. So I think that inherently in that Coming from sports, you understand being in service of the story. You understand him being in service of winning Wh is team, right? But then there's also the thing where as an individual, as an individual, you want to score though too. You want to score too right? And so I think that's the thing that I found where I don't think I ever got to become the scorer I wanted in real athletics sports. So I think I've always fought for So that was like your driving factor In part it was like an act let's go straight up in the acting space. I know I'm more of a scorer then I'm not getting shot. Or you got to come off the bench and be Jamal Crawford to like stay in the game And you know what I mean? Or you feel like you're getting ignored in a certain way. And so A lot of that was two things understanding and feeling like There's a team to serve. there's a there's a there's a There's something to be in service of, but also I want to make sure That I'm having the most fulfilling experience possible that I'm able to play at my I'm able to work in a system that values my talents. Do you know what I'm saying?? Becauseuse there's being a certain system that is just you could be the best dot dot dot, but if that system is not built for you, then you won't win. You're not gonna or you won't have fun while you're winning. Be just there's not a place for you in that system. So that's what spes sort of had been in conversation for me having been on like both sides How did you like When you first started acting, how did you You know, you've obviously probably brought a raw energy and enthusiasm. how long did you transition to like you play basketball since you're five six, seven eight years old? Yeah. It's familiar. When you started acting, the lights go on and at first it's raw, unbridled, I'm just going for it. And then how was that transition from that to like a sophisticated actor playing different parts and roles and being able to go deeper What was that transition? I know it wass gonna to happen forever. Yeah. like immediately that must have been really strange. You know, I think sometimes things are easy when you don't name them Sometimes they're easy when you don't mit your investment in it Like, you know I don't really know Nothing to do this. I just I'm kind of just stumbling in it. But then when you say I want to be it, that's when it gets hard, you know. And when I got into grad school and I basically was saying I want to commit to this path is when light it's like the black light turned on. You saw all the things that were problematic, you know, and all the things that didn't work and all the things that needed to be pulled apart. to clean this up. Right. And so so then it becomes a process of being able to tolerate criticism until you begin to get on the other side of the confidence that comes from Cciousness improvement. Is that a big part of self consciousness?f one hundred percent. one hundred percent, one hundred percent. think that those I've been lucky enough to experience some incredible moments in basketball. 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Learn more at Americanexpress d. com slash with Potner I'm going to ask you a question because I think a lot of our viewers that watch our watch our pod, they're sitting here like I f play ball? Like he's speaking the game. I don't think a lot of people know that you really play ball. L really play ball, not just watching it, not just talking it like you really play ball. And I came up on a story and we've kind of been talking about in the back. You know, I want you to tell us about this whole Santa Clara recruitment story. and how that went and then how did that change you and how did it all You know, make you become who you are today, but first of all, Marsla played at St. Mary's. Yeah. I played at Santa Clara same year. Yeah Arch rival schools. Yeah. We were natural rivals. because I think I knew about that rivalry because of Delvadova. Deli. Yeah Delhi and also LP too. you know, I had, you know, Del Vadoba was that same marriage. he's always Every time that game would come on, he' going crazy like not talking don't talk to me right now. You know, So I knew a lot about that too with Delaadoba and also Lloyd Pierce too yourour teammate you know, your teammate, my former coach too. So yeah, just like he would probably sing here like wild and I was like, I know him from that movie But like tell us about that whole process. You know, It's so wonderful seeing you after last time I saw you was in person. was about thirty years ago few months before heading into the draft. So this is a real profound full circle moment for me because I think about you from time to time in a way that I feel like has really resonated as one of my biggest life lessons. I was being recruited comoming out of high school by a Grace of God Dale Dimps, former Pelicans GM, my high school almar mater' like four or five years older than me saw me playing one day, He's like, who's recruiting you? Basically nobody was. He got me to a camp and then I was suddenly being recruited by a bunch of schools. So over the course of that next whatever year, Certain teams are beginning that coaches are coming to your house. And of course, you gott to narrow down to what five schools you're gonna go visit. I don't know if it's like that now, but decades ago when we were being recruited, you could go five school visits. So long story short, I'm living with my grand Now now they get paid. Oh, there you go. There you go. Yes, yes So my grandfather and I were basically, you know, my grandmother was still working at that time, and it would be my grandfather and I doing my recruiting visits as coaches would come by. So now it's getting serious and it's getting very close to like the signing date time. And I'll never forget coming from. I played for what was equivalent to like a high school Bobby Knight. Our coach had a seatbelt on his chair because he had gotten kicked out of game. so he would get up and the whole get up with him. But he was basically Bobby Knight was Ron Benavitz. Bobby Knight was basically my coach's idol So now though, in the summer, I'm playing with Jason Kid mee and Jason are on a team and like eleven out of the thirteen of our kids went D one out of that team. We played against Stephen Francis of them on ESPN and all kind of stuff. So it was a good time. So I'm trying to play that type of basketball, right? Yeah. Not this whole You know, three point thir all the time,'s just like it was too much. I needed some freedom. So me and my grandfather are sitting there in our house and Ernie Kent comes in and he just he had played in Oregon and he was all American and all that. he was a brother. I' never played for a brother before other than an AAU so I'm just like about to play for a black coach too. Oh Snap, never had this experience. And he goes, Herschel For us to be successful, your freshman year, you're gonna have to average twenty two points a game. She got into acting.. twentywenty two points. a game, a freshman year for us to be successful. My grand my grandfather is smiling ear to ear. I'm like, Okay, coach, good to meet you. We'll give us some thought. He leaves. I' know. Same week probably, if I'm not mistaken My coach, my high school coach wanted me to go to Santa Claair. So he goes. So Dick Davy comes over the house. That was my coach. Yeah, Santa Clair. Dick Davy comes to the house He says Good athlete Solid defefender Don't handle the ball very well, you don't shoot it well enough. You won't play your freshman year take you. What?? After he left, my grandfather could have kicked his ass like walking up I was like he I was pissed and like so the answer essentially was like, I'm not going the same way. I'm No brainer. Yeah, no brainer Four years later, this MNF is getting drafted. and you know what? correct me if I'm wrong He had one scholarship offer in the United States. Yeah. I had that offer first I turned down w. That was not the advice. That was not what I wanted to hear. I went with with who and what felt and sounded good. Yeah And I did not average twenty two points a game my freshman year I A career average probably like three points a game It didn't. what Coach said I would go what Dick Davy said, I would probably go through my freshman year to get to where is what everything he probably went through. Exactly. Exactly.. So I had never I've always looked at you with a It it was just like seeing your lesson run around on the court every day or chasing it off of ps. you know, but but u But I really like to celebrate your success Um, and I really appreciate, u the impact like your journey, your story, and like The little part I playing it from my perspective, you know what I'm saying? And it's It's wonderful to sit down with me. That's incredible. That's an incredible story. I feel the same way, but I mean, before I ask a few more questions, I go. So I had one scholarship offer. If you took that scholarship Yeah Yeah, who knows? Probably a great soccer play, right? Yeah. Right? I mean, that's crazy, right? how it works out and fortunately it worked out for both of us. But that's an amazing story. It's great for kids. And so you don't feel bad. Yeah. Coach Davy came to see me play late senior year, probably he'd seen you play way more than he saw me. came up to see me play in the provincial, like our state championship So Iwll me playing like a noon game. We went to like a diner after. and he's like, you got to be the worst offender I've ever seen. But you know, we'll take you but we got to work a lot. And So he that was who he was. he we called we always said as players and as a program, he would negative recruit. one to be honest, but two, you know, he wanted to get guys that would come that would be that could take it that could respond to that could respond to the coaching. Yes. They could respond. So there is a lesson in there I don't know if it translate as much to today because now it' a business. Yeah. now it's a business. You can't You almost have to go follow your financial path Yeah in a way. But the lesson translates to other places. Right in life. That's amazing, man.. Yeah. appreciate that. Well you look, I'm trying to think like Do any other Oscar winners play hoops? I mean, you're the only one who played D one for sure. And we played against each other for years. You could defend, you could shoot it, You know, wasn't a great shooter, but could shoot it, could slash, could play was kind of a combo guard. and won two Oscars. Yeah, that's insane. What are we talking about? We talking about? What are we talking about? It worked out. It worked out. It worked out Like, man, you must sometimes just think, like, how did my life just like flip? Yeah. Yeah. I I do. Do you feel like a ball player still or do you feel like that's so far in the past? I feel like I'm doing the same thing I always did As a kid, which is I feel I know when you were like, it probably it doesn't first articulate it necessarily in the thing that you have success in but there's just a feeling you're chasing. There's like a restlessness at night, you can't sleep because there's like a am I getting close to that thing?ike there's something, it's like a beacon, an alarm going off, and like you get closer to it and it like starts beeping a little louder. So I've been doing that. And by the grace of God, I just feel like an awareness around the urgency to keep living and to keep playing. I think one thing that actors sometimes do really well is some people call it a rest of development. Some people call it just holding on to a sense of play. You know And I think one thing that actors really have to do or artists really have to do Locate the joy, like locate the joy for the work, the joy for the you guys do it, like the joy for the passion of the like the discom the uncomfortable spaces because you know it's gonna to prepare you for for a time where you can enjoy how uncomfortable it is. Yeah You know what I'm saying? opppposed to suffering through the twenty fifth mile or the whatever, it's the o, now I got it I got it I need to finish it. This is how I want to finish it. So I think that there's a joy that one can find in like some of these creative spaces That to me feels the same as it felt when I was like nine years old and I wrote my first poem or something and I was like excited to share it. you know Yeah. But you being a ball player and like We always hear the zone. Yeah. You know, We always know, you know, I was in a zone. I felt like I was in a zone. Fow state. Yeah, that flow state. Is there been a moment and I know it has been, but there's been a moment that you can re, you know When you'd been on set or you were doing a certain part in a movie or a certain moment where you was just like I'm in a fucking zone right now. Like I'm in a zone. Only an athlete would ask that question. Yes, Yes. Yeah. Y. And you know it too, huh? Yes. Like, don't say cut, please don't say'm just I'm locked out. Is this d is this on a amazing question, but is this like an all day shoot On the scene Or can this go last through a h? Both Both. You have the character. I did my favorite. Green Book and True Detective two weeks apart. And Greenbook was first. I had like a week off and then I had to go right into true detective and a true detective I'm playing three different errors in three different ages. Sim this eighty hour week shooting And you literally feel like you're spending so much time being someone else that you feel like it's switching. Like you play yourself, but you're living as the other person, right That space Oh I don't even know how you kind of that was the space I probably have have It was very difficult, but I found myself having just so much fun feeling like the game slowed up. and like you could see things like coming and like the there's a fluency that you and other actors and directors and that can all kind of like tap into that when you feel those moments and they're feeling far between You pray to have as many of them as you can. But when you find those moments, it is something to be cherished. And like you chase it So then you're chasing it.. You can't let that go, like but yes, I've had a few of those and it's a real joy. And then other than that, then it was like way back in school where you like something clicks and you figure it out and then you're just You're like, oh something since now, that had never made sense before. Excuse the lame basketball analogy, but like the two man game or two person game, you know, you find chemistry like I had chemistry with Amari or Dirk Do you ever get in a role where you're like, I have that with this person way more than another person? Yes. There's some people where you're already like, o, we're going to enjoy working together. I recently had that with an extraordinary actor by the name of John Chchup We got to do this some work together in a film that's coming out called Your Mother, Y Mother, your Mother. And getting to work with him was one of the real true highlights of my career. I look forward to you guys getting to see that. H, anotherother one I actually just I had an absolute blast was Ethan Haw ike he's a genius And I think we kind of there's something that I think we kind of understood about how to share the ball, you know. And it was like, I remember playing with Jason Jason Kid and I were on a team for this AU team and I had always clearly watched him playriv not rivals, but like played in the same areas, right? But it was another thing to play with him. and I finally understood what it was to play with someone that made the game easier. You just run the court and suddenly you're like, oh, the ball's just in your hand, like in the right spot. as long as you just do your job, like he could see certain things coming and boom, there's the ball and like, o, ride in step in rhythm, lay up when other people might hold on to it longer because there might be indecisive or thinking about themselves when playing with Jason, suddenly I was like, this is what it is to play with a point guard who makes everyone around them better. you know? And so there are certain actors that I've worked off of that have done an extraordinary job and just like making the whole set, making other actors just pl kind of like outll play the contract. Yeah. Pay above you know. Well everyone go see your mother, your mother, your mother. Thank. Absolutely. G to. I gota And I gott to go see, I gott to watch trrue detective. true detective lock in on. You lock. Noue. got a lock. I'm lock in on. do watch season one Yeah. Boom, I know I get the treat in season two when he show up So I'm all good.'s It was phenomenal. Moonlight, man. than you what film. It's great to see you. I appreciate you. I' going to sit down with you both Re Thank you Absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you for what you do too. Absolutely Thanks for watching, Mind the Game. New episodes drop every other Tuesday. Remember to like, subscribe, or follow wherever you're watching