Driver Ratings and Future Potential

You are listening to Miss Apex podcast . We live at one . Welcome to Miss Apex podcast. I'm your host Richard Reddy, but my friends call me spanners. So let's be friends and it's the Austrian Grandpri Race Review , which is nearly as good as the Silverstone Gra,ndprix rvace reiew, but that's next week. But the Austrian Grand Prix is, I guess, a starter, an appetizer for the greatest Grand Prix ever, who says we've got British bias. But yes, the Austrian Grand Prix I went into it with the highest of expectations because it is a track where you can go racing, where you can overtake. And I think we got some absolutely thrilling racing and action. We got a flashback to twenty twenty one with Lewis Hamilton and Max Verstaffen pulling out all the old moves. Max, we're gonna dance together. Do you remember the steps? And oh boy, they sure did remember the steps. So we'll be reviewing this race and I think the key points really is that Max seems to be back to regular form. Ferrari are back to regular form and the battle at Mercedes is back on. We are an independent podcast producsed in the past odcing shed with the kind support of our patrons and partners. We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute . We might be wrong, but we're first. I'm joined in the shed by Matt Two Rumpets, hello matt. What do you mean? I gained an advantage. No, that was an entirely accidental off. No advantage gained here, none whatsoever. If anything, I went a longer route. Like I could probably cost me time. Yes, it did. I mean, if you're measuring it like the Monaco Pitlane in a bend for some reason, then technically I was under I was under speeding if anything, you're Antonelle going absolutely mad and wild on lap one. We're also joined from Australia in the middle of the night by Jonathan Simon. Hello, John O.K Good news, spanners . The FIA has pulled an investigation and said we are the best podcast. We are the most listening to podcast. Yes . We are the most downloaded and the FIA said it. So it must be true. Right. Okay, is this to insinuate that it isn't true because you don't trust the FIA ? What have they done this time to offend you, Johnny? Oh, Red Bull must be the quickest power unit of course. Mercedes are so quick, yes. Well, we'll give some Aduo Tok toens to all the other podcasts out there and they can catch up to us, I guess. Well, hang on, don't if we want the we don't want to be good then because we want the podcasting aduo tokens. Surely. We so we want to say look we're clearly kept down by trumpets. He's American. My goodness. We get we have an American on the team. We got someone from Australia. They're so far away. Yeah, it's quite fun because watching Lauren Meckies try to decide whether he wants to slag off his own power unit division or get a duo has been fairly amusing. But I think I want to get into the Russell win. I think that's got to be the big story of the day to day. So I think just dive right in there . It would be really ungenerous to look at that win and then just create a whole bunch of circumstances that put him in this position and say, oh, wow, well he was lucky because this happened or that happened. And I'm not gonna sit here and do that. But I think John O might John O. Was it a fluke? This win or what? do think the qualifying and poll position helped because his two biggest rivals qualified P four and Max started, what was it like fifth, I think or something like that? So they were much down the order . But do we think that this is now mental with George? Because now he's got some confidence back and he's driving quicker. Do we think that his his errors or I want to say his poor form in those few races and the last few races have been in his head? Well, we have this conversation on the Saturday show which doesn't exist. So don't go back and listen to that , where we were saying, well, he's got the poll , but are Russell fans excited about that because you go into the race and you probably think well maybe his pace will go Antonelli might have a quicker pace. So he's taking that race win. That will definitely be a relief to have not lost points , but will he come away with that like a moral victory? So in Barcelona, he finished a head of Antonelli, but obviously that was a that was that was a crushing kind of moral hit because Antonelli was clearly faster. The same thing really in Canada , you know, he could say, well, I was in the lead when my engine failed , but really he kind of knows that Antonelli was faster. I think is this one a bit clearer because at least he got the poll, it was lights to flag. He managed the gap at every point no one got close enough to overtake him or to challenge him . So I mean this is it's hard to say it's we'll go through like the mitigating factors, but this is a legit grandprix win. It's a good win. It's a great win. Good. It was George doing George things and using those George things to beat Antonelli who is, I think, you know, certainly , I think we need to based on the evidence of all of our formula watching always, caveat in this car with these regulations . Why right now in this car with these regulations, you'd say that Antonelli was faster. Despite that, George did George things and he legitimately won . He didn't crumble , he didn't give up. He didn't make mistakes when mistakes could easily have been made . And the things that really set him apart from Antonelli, you brought up qualifying, knowing what a double waved yellow light panel looks like compared to a yellow flag light panel. Got him bowl position. So yeah, everything all the tools he have has can be used to beat Antonelli and guess what he needs to do if he wants to win the championship. Beat Antonelli . Do we get into the yellow flag again spanners for another day ? Did we do that? Greak havoc on the podcast in the comments section after this. But no, look, Matt, I think you mentioned it,an Snpers in the sense that you said that he was quicker than Antonelli in Barcelona. I don't know about that because no opposite is that what I'm saying? Yeah, opposite quicker yeah. Because I do feel most times this season. I know George has had some bad luck. Canada was the best example. I do think Antonelli's been quicker almost everywhere except Melbourne . So even today I go, okay, maybe it was in Georgia's head a lot of the time the lack of you know speed he's had and stringing together good laps in qualifying today though it's like was he quicker than Antonelli Antonelli started so far down the order and finished within two seconds or whatever it was at the finish line of George Russell. I don't know Matt, you're disagreeing with this, but I don't know what like how am I wrong? Lying on Matt. You get to know he started fourth, I think. Yeah. Damn it. I'm going to I go with he started fourth. I'm going to have to start defending George Russell here, which is kind of good because I'm normally positioned as the hater, but since you've taken that position, you can say I'll say straight away you can never fully tell what the guy at the front could have done. Like they could have used more tyres, they could have like they could have been managing. So it's harder to pick that apart than just plain and simple. Antonelli's got to chase George that might not be the smartest thing . Correct, but on a day like today , clear air up front was the biggest difference maker. Look at Lewis Hamilton, which we'll get into later, stuck in traffic, dirty air if there is any of that anymore. The FIA probably said there's no dirty air anymore with these new wrecks, but I think that that had more of a factor on such a hot day like today with track temps up in the is that even right sixties man? Yeah, no it wasn't that even possible scientifically Yeah it does seem like very high. I don't think I've ever seen it go into the sixties. You can't even do that. I saw fifties at the start, but yeah, it was hot. Yeah. So there's a couple of factors to go, did Russell have more pace? But I think I would try to ask myself, let's say you could swap it like which driver would position would you want to be when you're looking at it for a season ahead? So if you swap to those positions, I have a feeling that Russell would have been kind of happier with his little charge up the field and then be batt ling Verstappen at the end because then at least you look at that and go oh my performance was really strong compared to my teammate. He's got the win now but there might be just that little doubt although to be honest in that heat he was probably just glad that it was over. I'm going to disagree . I think that in fact what he really wants is to come away with a significant haul of points over Antonio. Okay . And he absolutely did that . I get wanting to just, you know, best your rivals in battle and all, but smart money is take all the points you can when you can take them and give none of them up. And he sees this now. This is going to be his strategy whenever I advantage, I have to make the most of it. Yeah, that's actually one of his strengths is being ahead and knowing how to stay ahead . And his IQ, like how smart is he as a driver? Like look at Saturday qualifying and how he was able to identify the difference between a single yellow and double when his younger and experienced teammate didn't. So credit to George on that. And then today like, did you guys buy into this whole hey, we're going to one stop from George Russell, that radio message come on. I mean that was a little bummy radio message surely. Yeah, I'll bluff. It was one of the worst bluffs I've ever heard It was worse than when McLaren last year used to do their what was it the whole send the guys out into the pit lane like beam lapse before the pit window? It was like, come on. I think the only worst thing would be if they'd gone guys. We've got we think there's rain coming. We're going to go on to Inters. Yes, of course. Good idea. Excellent. Let's go on to Inters and think the teams are gonna go Oh no we'd better do that too I will say if I'm red bull and I heard you say that I would be very tempted next time I knew they were bluffing to come back on the radio to Max with that . Oh so yeah some little code. Like if we start if we do two beeps on the columns or something it means we're responding to a bluff so don't worry about it that would be quite fun, wouldn't it? So yeah they did that but I think what we saw on the Russell Stints was there was a time when they were saying to him, right, we want you to open up the gap because every second's going to count. And I don't think he did open up much of a gap because that was towards the end of a stint. And then the other one was towards the end of the race . I think he was not saved by, but it looked there was a moment where his tyres were going off and Verstappen still had the over cut so had the extra tyre life and it looked like oh God he's going to close that gap and then Max's tyres went as well . So that was, I think it was fairly close. So there was a long time where Russell was letting the gap come down to about five seconds, totally sensible. Don't use more tyres than you need to. Was able to hold that gap for quite a while and then it started coming down. And I don't think that that end bit was fully just, oh, I'm managing, I'm managing. I think that end bit was he was running out ties a little. And also, along with that, I do think before we get into the max hole offset stuff, which you brought up, I feel like that's a nice debate we're going to have in a bit. Yeah. But when George was mid race telling his team, hey, we should be pitting Kimmy Antonelli. You remember the last thing you just mentioned Spanners? He said, Hey, we should probably be pitting Kimmy because right now you're just letting Max stay out there for the overcut. What George didn't know in that situation because theoretically, I feel Matt he was correct what George Russell was thinking , but what he didn't know was that Antonelli was catching Verstappen fast because Versappen's tyres were dead. So at the end of the day, it was kind of actually a good point to leave Antonelli out there in that final stint I feel. I think that I think that Russell was scared of Antonelli doing a one stop where he wouldn't be able to. I know I just think that I think that's the fear. If your tyres are going and Antonio is actually catching Verstappen and therefore you go, oh, if I pier, I'm going to be vulnerable to his tyres just being fine and carrying on. Okay, next time, I'm not going to be nice and let Johno go. So here we go. Never be nice, never be nice, it's fun . Working backwards from the last ten . So we're going to talk about Max and his strategic position, but you have Russell on tires that are going to have to go a long way . Now my observation was after about twenty laps. I don't care what tire you're on, they just stopped working very well. So any over twenty lap stent, you're beginning to get into my rivals on newer tires will be catching me. So you shouldn't stay out for twenty four laps on softs then. That's what you're saying . Or even seventeen. Not to spoil this for you . What? What saved Georges Bacon was Alexander Alban absolutely murdering a ballard and bringing out a forty seven second virtual safety car. He was able to go slower , reduce the temperature of the surface of the tires , but it wasn't so long that he lost temperature and then couldn't get it back . And I think had that VSC not happened, I'm entirely camp catches George. I won't say he passes him because that's a different thing we all know, but yeah, I think Max definitely catches George without the virtual safety car. So when did that virtual safety car happen? Was that before Max's final stop, Matt? It was exactly after. It was after it was like they don't go look at his butt. Yeah. Yeah, and it was it was it was the lap after Antonelli's final stop as well. Because Antonelli missed out on another chance to win the race with another virtual safety car he missed unfortunately for Kim Antonelli . Yes. I'm sorry. Antonelli threw that race at the start . If he got more chances and didn't take advantage of it, then that was the universe looking out for him. He messed that up at the beginning. Oh, we're attacking a teenager. Cool. But let's finish off the Russell one. Let me finish talking about George . Sorry, yes. Because the other thing you brought up was the second stint. He did. So he's had his first stop. He's on his tires. And he did. He looked very weak. He was getting caught by Antonelli. He was getting caught by Max . Thank you . And you were like, here it is. This is the George Russell that can't win the championship because he can't manage his tire . And he had given away a lot of advantage letting Max take that undercut and letting Lewis take that undercut. Although Lewis was a real factor . But what happened, I think, was there was another virtual safety car thanks to again his own power unit in a different car. I'm assuming that's why they stopped . And what you got was a very long, almost a three minute virtual safety virtual safety car. And I think he just lost higher temperatures and couldn't get them started again. And the other people could. And that is a George weakness because I think how he tends to drive the car , if he loses that core temperature , he's going to struggle and he was on the hard tire, which was going to be the hardest tire to get back up to temperature and it had just enough life on it that it was problematic. Which is ridiculous to say, Matt, considering track temperature was four thousand degrees today, but you're talking about core temperature . And what you're saying is obviously like you got your surface temperature, which is like when you watched all the onboards, you saw the blistering and when you touch it, it's hot. But inside there's like it's like if you microwave a quiche, right ? And it's like the outside of the quiche feels very hot and you're like, oh this is great. Then you take a bite and the inside is cold . And that's what Matt's talking about, right? It's that cool temperature inside that it needs a completely different kind of warming up. Do you like that in Albania? I just don't know if was the go to. It feels like this ever was a lot better . Or what do you like then? What? Well, just for that example, like it could just impast that. Oh my God, Australia. Oh we look should we look at the data, shall we? Australia? Okay . Okay anyway, yeah, I get what you're saying, surface temps. Yeah. I haven't been able to say the word data . Right. I was talking to my mum last week because you told me off two years ago and now everything every time in public I go data data data, I say it many times anyway . But back to the quiche, I'm sorry, back to the core temperature . That was the important part. Now Matt, you said that I was you were looking forward to disagree ing with me, you've just proved that I'm correct. And what I'm trying to say here is if you take the Ferrari's out of the race, right and it's just George First Kimi Antoniell second on the grid and then Max Verstappen third. Does George Russell still win this race? Yeah, that's what I'm trying to allude to here . Well, no, because Antonelli will drive off the track foolishly trying to pass Max and you get the same result. Okay, I think the better question then is was a win on the cards for Antonelli. This weekend could should Antonelli have won. So well done to George Russell, let the fans both these fans enjoy the moment. I even banned everyone slagging him off for doing the tepose in the discord because I was like, come on , let them let both of them enjoy this moment in here. So it's a it's a good you can't win by accident and I certainly don't think it was an easy win and it took a lot of management and as Matt said he had to do a lot of George Russelly things . However, we can look at Antonelli, young superstar and say could he , should he have done more? So I think Matt's a little harsher than me on the yellow on the yellow flag in qualifying. To me, that is like all the commentators didn't know that. So you could say well done George Russell for knowing this niche thing that Antonelli didn't. It should have been yellow flag, a double yellow. It should have been a double wave waved yellow. There was a car in the firing line. That's what the double waved yellows are for. With a car there stuck where Max Verstaffen was was, that the end of anyone's attempt to get a lap in. But because Russell had spotted that it was slightly wrong and that he could just keep his foot in and just pretend that he didn't see the massive race car , which is another ridiculous claim. Is that what claim that he didn't see the car worse than the bluff for the one stop? I actually believe him. No. That car was really far, far away from the track. It was very far away from the track. I couldn't see it on the onboard. And he was far enough behind that he didn't see Max go off. So I mean his engineer was his engineer didn't say car in the wall. Come on. I haven't listened to the audio of the onboard because why would you but? I will go back and listen if you would like me to and I 'll tell you what was said the audio is offset anyway . No, I generally believe him. And yeah, no, you're right. It is a specialist bit of knowledge. I wouldn't expect the COMS guys to know it. I had no idea what it looked like , but George did, you know what? I bet Kemi will know what it looks like next time too. It's part of his learning , you're you're not going to get that next week. So it's not that's not a thing that you go, well, you know, next week it's going to be different or he that's an ongoing thing that he can use. Yeah, sure. So in that way, the opportunity to use that bit of misunderstood knowledge, commonly misunderstood knowledge. I mean, that's quite a lucky thing to come up and it's not really going to come up again. So I'm not blaming Antonelli for that. It was a double wave yellow situation. It was a situation in which no one should have been able to set a lap. That's the standard, the status quo. So Antonelli is unlucky that his teammate incorrectly to was allowed to do that. It's not that Russell did anything wrong, but he shouldn't have been that lap should not have been allowed to stand. Like that lap , do what I mean? Like there's no there's no cause to penalize George Russell, but also he should not have been able to set a lap. That is the whole point of the system is to stop people going at racing speeds when there's a dangerous situation like that. I don't care that someone accidentally did a one yellow instead of two. Looking back, you should just go right. None of those laps count. To me, that's where the luck comes into it for me. Okay . I agree . However , there's a difference between looking at something in hindsight and looking at it when it's evolving . And the marshal was immediately correct in displaying the flag that they displayed because I believe that's what they're allowed to do on their own. They're not allowed to stop. That's a race control decision. Race control saw Max , thought he might be able to move, restart the car when he wasn't the call the double wave yellow. I mean you could say yeah now that I look at it in replay in slow motion there's no way he's moving that car but I understand that they have to find probably a closed circuit shot of him , look at it, figure out what's going on, and then make a decision based on that. We think Russell's clever, right? I think Russell knows that that's a situation in which we're not saying he up and then he's gone Oh technically it's only a single yellow. I'm just going to go for it and see what happens on the theme of blasting teenagers this podcast so far . So ten years ago in F one I remember Renault used to give all the drivers between sessions like multiple choice tests about the F one rules. So that's the way they would learn the rules. Has Kimmy as a teenager not been studying for his exams? Has he not been doing his homework or is he too young that he's got this maybe? And he's like seven he's seven, eight years younger than Russell. So that's a lot of experience and a lot of age. It's way too young. It's way too young, but that's not the only mistake he made. And I only dwell on that because it's like, well, in my mind, I'm not really counting that as a mistake as such . But Lap one was so scruffy and so scrappy and they said he did he reported a breaking issue and so he had like an asymmetric heat on his brakes. So one brake was cooler than the other. So I guess you'll get him slightly uneven on the brake pedal . But you know you have that. Like you can feel that, I assume. You know I have you have a brake issue especially after the first one. So then it's down to you to then mitigate that and accept how far you're going to break or out you're going to brake. But then he went off three separate times and one what point is it not just oh it's lap one just let it go and like he's just he was running overvals out there and it like because initially you did feel like he was trying too hard but then once you heard him during the race complaint about the b israskeue . Maybe that was causing some of the problems because it was turn one, wasn't it? Against Leclerc, right? He ran straight off the track. But then he did it again at turn three , the next breaking zone. And when you watch the onboard, you kind of look at it . It's like very bizarre, it seems unkimi like. So I personally, after looking at it, am going to give Antonelli the benefit of the doubt and say, Okay, it was because of the break issues he was having. A lot of drivers with brake issues as well this race, Norris had one pre race. I think Piestri had one too. So I don't know if it was the heat or coincidence, but there was quite a bit going on that. Yeah, and in general is the problem that the teams are having. These brakes, these carbon brakes are very fancy, they're very good, but they're sensitive. They have to be hot enough to work . And if they cool or they cool unevenly, you can get this little surface on the rotor that it's called glazing and it will severely affect your ability to write Max had it when you're complaining about the pulling . And the reason they're getting this is first of all you're running in very hot temperatures, outside normal formula one running temperatures at a high altitude where already your cooling is going to be more of a challenge. But most importantly you',re also interacting with the energy the energy system, which is going to want to occasionally use itself instead of your brake. So it gets easier and easier for the brakes to fall out of a window because each lap where you pull that energy from can change. It can vary lap to lap to lap. And if you get if it unfort comes up I don't know like a bad beat, then suddenly you have a long pedal, you have brakes that are glazed and they pull and then it's a real challenge to get them back into fully operative condition. So I think this was Antonelli early days ab,solutely. He was having brake problems . And a lot of teams did. Some of them didn't even finish the race because of it. And one of my favorite parts as wellspanners was finding out that Lando Norris pre race obviously had the brake issue and the way McLaren got rid of it was road relevant which was the best part about Formula One right now and they bled the brakes and got the bubbles out of the system, which is exactly how you would do it on your road car and I've had that issue before because when you have the bubb les, you press the brake pedal on your car, it feels so spongy and it just feels awkward . And why is that? Why is that, Johno? Why do you think of the bubbles? The air in there. Yeah. What does the air do differently than the liquid? Matt. Matt jumping No . We'll get back to you. Air compresses and the brake fluid doesn't. So yeah. So if you're using a hydraulic system and you hit the brakes, then that brake fluid it remains the same area of mass, whereas if you've got air in there, that air compresses. And so it feels like you're having to do it. And obviously that's a variable as well. So if you haven't practiced that it feels like completely different brake pressure . So yeah, a lot of braking problems, I guess. And we can forgive Antonelli except that by the third time the sympathy had gone, right? And obvious thenly he's got to give that place back, but you go you can't just pin it out of that turn one consequence free and they've allowed that to happen for way too long at that turn in Austria. So there was cars that were side by side with him who did everything right, who got alongside him. I don't know who it was. Was it Hager? Or was it Verstappen? Might be Verstappen. There was definitely a car to the right of him who didn,'t go off, who overtook him, and then didn't get to overtake Antonelli because he went straight off the track, kept it pinned and then challenged Hamilton. So Hamilton instead of trying to line up something into turn five and six against Leclerc had to defend and go tight or sorry to turn three , had to defend from Antonelli who shouldn't really have been there. So you've got to have some kind of penalty board marker system or like a lifted zone. So you go, okay, well you've got you've got a lift. If you go off and turn one, you've got this ten meters you've got to lift. You got to be off throttle for that for that ten meters on the exit as you come back on track and have a rejoin lane. But then you went and did it again . So he's had he had two off tracks where he didn't have to compromise for the corner, could be brave knowing or not, you know, or in the end in hindsight didn't have any consequences for those things, generally. So to me, like, you've got to have some kind of rule that comes in. We could call it the Antonelli rule because you shouldn't you shouldn't be able to just keep your position by just, you know, not having to slow down and just pinning it. But isn't this the whole three strikes thing when you run off? What happened to that today? He would have had four five strikes. Yeah, because no one's paying attention. That's why because they don't have a proper. They don't have a proper system for monitoring that. They have like if someone points out they might go and look, but that's much more about okay. So if you're consistently cutting the track, you'll get a penalty. This is a very specific case where he has held on to positions by running off track. So on both those corners of turn one and turn three , if he if he had had a penalty thing to go through or he'd been forced to slow down enough to take the corner properly, he would have lost a position. So for me he shouldn't have had those positions at the end of lap one . But then it's like it should be around the outside, right? Obviously because this is what you're talking about is they run wide at turn one, even though there's that sausage anticut curb somehow, that's not slowing them down enough. But do you remember that's when you're an exit. So that's when your exit. So you can just if you if you take the corner and you don't quite make the exit you'll hit the sausage code but you can just go to the left of it you can just yeah yeah well that's that's the thing. So in Barcelona they have something like this where if you miss the turn one two complex you have to run through a little anti cut road, I don't know what they call it. They had it in Russia one year and they designed it poorly. So Fernando Balonso went full throttle through there to prove a point. I always remember that as well. So I do think it's a good idea what you're saying, but the good part I did like was the one time he actually did run wide and make an overtake. I think it was on Lewis Hamilton ended up letting him back past, followed the rules. So that was good. But you're more talking about the old didn't lose a spot where he should be penalized for running wide. Yeah, so I mean that 's also an issue at turn three, I feel like.im Sesomet the drivers run off wide there and then get away with it. Well this is the thing in the first lap, that's what he did. If you look at Max, if you go to Max's onboard camera, if you have that shot. Oh, did they did they do the onboard for that one? Because I didn't have on boards for Max for other things I wanted to see, but whatever. I watched it from the start of the race and you can see I think if you drew a line from the corner through Max , he would have been alongside Kemmy, but Kemmy was the other side of the sausage curb of turn three on lap one . But lap two was where he really that was the one that cost him dearly dearly . And let 's certainly let look fast and Verstappen wasn't it? Because it was actually a really good double overtake. So that was a thousand IQ from Verstappen. Antonelli was clearly trying to time it so that he was just letting just the clerk through . And then just for sapper just absolutely pounced on that. That was a great overtake. I just feel like he benefited way too much for all of those moves and only really net lost one place from just pinning it off track. So I want I want something done, damn it . So before we get into obviously the thrilling fight between Max and Lewis. I'm sure we were gonna get to as soon. Do it now. Do it now. Max versus Louis, because that's the topic. Okay, quiet. Oh, did you want to say something ? I can't undo the bump for now. Sorry. I thought we were being dramatic. Gone. No, that's all right. It sounded pretty cool if you want to play it again. No. That battle, how cool, right? And I think I'm the most qualified to talk about this topic right now because Spanner I is think, feed, back at Mistapix. net . You received something on our previous show that I'm some biased red bull fan . No, I'm pleased for you. I'm pleased for you man. That's the first proper insult you've had hosting the show in appreciation. I think that's that's good. That's like my daughter spraining her ankle. It's a rite of passage. It's really well, that's it, exactly. I'm a red bull Verstappen fanboy according to someone even though Lewis Hamilton's in like four of the top ten great est moments of my life. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So I'm most qualified to talk on this topic because I like both of them. Now the fight between them both was this personal? Do you feel like Max took or Lewis or anyone took this personal for four years ago or five years ago, or no, it was just a good fight between both of them. Am I am I did nobody should I not have brought that question? , restate the premise. Like what's your you've said as a question? What is your premise here? Okay, I'm all thinking that the first battle they had where Lewis, I'm talking middle sector of the lap, Max now is on the gravel a little bit. You watch the replay it's borderline on the limit of the rules. I'm kind of glad the FIA left it alone . I think the FIA should promote a little bit of Arjibarji like that, you know, should elbows out, good fun, good racing. It wasn't like Max went off lost and ten seconds because Lewis didn't give him space. It was pretty fair. But then the next time when Max , I think it was a lap later or two laps later, Max kind of deliberately said, You know what? Stuff you, Louis, you didn't give me space last time. I'm not going to give you space this time. I thought that was slightly personal. It was absolute filth and it was not shown on the broadcast. So okay, you're talking about they come through turn five and six where the previous lap had been Lewis kind of ushered him off track. But in all of those battles , the driver who pushed the other driver off or shut the door was by the rules legitimately ahead and they both understand that. So those two drivers both will shut the door on the outside car anyway and before the rules came in. Now Verstappen in particular is very good at making sure he's ahead and knowing that he just has to stay on track and push in the other, you know, and shuts the door on the other car. The other car just has to get out of the way. All of those moves were fine . So basically Hamilton did it twice. Verstappen did it once . All of those moves were fine. It was then Verstappen calling for a penalty and I think he was calling for a penalty on not on the one that they were showing actually on the replay. I think it was the turn five one, which is a bit more of a straight turn and I think it's where Hamilton was like moving out to the racing line. He if that is a technically a turn, turn five , which I think it is, that left hander. So you got a turn for goes right and then you got a skink to the left and then a proper left and then a right and a right to finish. So I think that's turn five. I mean Hamilton was ahead at whatever you're going to say the apex is. This is why this rule sucks. But it's not a breaking zone is it? They're flat out through there, I think . But in any case, he's he's ahead, so he can take the racing line and go to the outside. So Max doesn't have a leg to stand on on that one. However, it's the following lap where he gets the overtake done. And then very clearly when he's got the run, opens up the steering in exactly the same way that he did in Barcelona. And in Barcelona, Russell didn't move. They hit he got a ten second penalty. Hamilton's got like Pavlov Dog PTSD. The second he sees that twitch from Verstappen, he moves out the way to make sure that they don't crack this in the middle of the track, by the way, so there's no there's no jeopardy really here. Max is just about to cruise by. I just don't understand why it hasn't been spoken about. I don't understand why there weren't replays of it shown on the TV. I don't understand why the Skypad was like oh max cheeky cheeky max oh he really was annoyed there It's exactly the same as Barcelona he lost his temper, thought there should be a penalty saw, in anjustice and lashed out. Well, did Russell say lashed out with a borderline rage or whatever, but he did it again. And I just I just don't understand why it's been completely glossed over because it physically happened. It's there. We saw it. Why this time did all the broadcast just be just completely brush it off? I don't get it. And I felt like Lewis Hamilton spanners at the end of the race where he kind of saw Max Verstappen in the media pen and said, Hey, great race. Like he actually enjoyed the fight. And as much as I see what you're saying, personally, I enjoyed it. I liked watching the two . I like Max's even though Max's move , I think was a little dirty, yes. No, it was still fun to watch. That final one that I'm describing. Yeah, it's a little dirty. A little dirty? he does what Rossberg did at this very race track. Remember like ten years ago and that was a different corner . No , completely misses the Apex, doesn't turn in. Rosberg and Rosberg was legitimately defending a position. He defended it very roughly and got a penalty for it and didn't leave racing room which you were meant to do at the time. This wasn't anything to do with racing. This was a I'm annoyed with you. So as part of going past, I'm going to jink out towards you and you have to get out of the way. But but maybe Hamilton didn't jink out the way this time or maybe he missed it or didn't realize. And then you're risking damage, contact penalties, which happened in Barcelona last year was commonly acknowledged every goes Oh maybe it's 'cause Because when he was asked about it in the press conference in Abu Dhabi, that journalist was told to leave. And that's why and they go baby, that's it. So that's it. That's why the TV broadcasters don't want to point it out or don't want to make a big deal out of it because they don't want to face re percussions . I'm not getting any agreement from you guys. I'm not getting anything in the chat. No, no, no , I literally said that is both legitimate and believable with regards to Max. I agree with you. But I think the reason why I posted it on Twitter and people like what on earth are you talking about? We haven't seen it because it wasn't shown on the broadcast. There's no onboard. Like this should be a kind of should be the level to other incidents we've had in the past and be investigated and be a talking point and it just isn't . Okay, you're saying that he should be chastised for it. Why should we be? Why isn't it a talking point? Like why has it come up? Like why is it a nothing? Well, we're here talking about it. You're saying you want more. Yeah, we are, but not the other people. That's what you're saying, right? Okay, well I don't see why I don't see why you didn't enjoy that more. I thought it was a nice thought it was . I didn't say I didn't enjoy it. I didn't say well, that's good then. That's good. No, no, I'm just making sure because I do think Max is like he didn't turn in at turn six. So Mark's put the screenshots in the discord and he's in three hundred miles from the apex is Max . So clearly he's but I like this kind of I'm the dominant one. I'm proving a point here, but did he need to do that? Kind of Yeah, Lewis didn't treat him that unfairly if that makes sense he on a did just enough did they were they both did the same kind of hard racing style that they have together . They both this was four times harder. No, I'm saying in the normal overtakes , they both did that kind of thing where you shut the door and you're forceful. This one in out of turn five, I think it is, where he clearly opens up and makes Hamilton get out of the way. That's nothing to do with racing. That wasn't a racing manoeuvre at all . So that isn't to do with the racing hard. That is just a little moment, a little tantrum. So there you go. Thank you. Thank you, Pete. Feedback at Mistapex. net everybody knows. No, I don't I know that by saying this, the YouTube comments are going to be horrendous. The comments I've got on X are horrendous . Every sympathy to Rachel Brooks who's literally retired from broadcasting because of abuse from Verstappen fans. I think no way do we sit here and go we can't have an opinion on a very obvious event because journalists are getting kicked out of places. Broadcasters and presenters are having to retire because of the mental health effect of the abuse they get. So yeah, bring it on. Do you know what? For every one of them that comes and is going to give me a bit of abuse and it's been hundreds already today. Do it to me. Do it to me because the effort you take to do it to me means you're leaving someone else alone. Listen, as a Verstappen and Red Bull fanboy, can everybody just please relax a little bit and let these guys fight and have a good time. I don't this is this is like earing into Alonso Hamilton territory zero seven like this is this might be the most like we didn't really have social media back then. I guess we kind of did. But back then, like that was really toxic. Like you had, you know, racist fans , you know, for Hamilton like just abusing him and stuff. And I just imagine this is what social media would have been like back then feel like well, there wasn't really that much social media. And by the way, yeah, you can look at those that clip and not agree with my analysis of what happened. Completely fine with that. What is baffling me is that it isn't even a subject . It's not even a talking point in the mainstream media. That's what gets me and that's the end of my rant. Go back, you can continue to rant. I will sit here and hold my peace if you say something. I've been very quiet, but I was just thinking back to John O's initial remark and going, gee, if the only there was a sport where displaying something got a penalty call for you and maybe that's why they're being a little we're all watching right now because it's on TV . Sorry, too far. No, I don't know, don't dive. Don't know what's happening. Like taking a dive in Oh soccer, like Max going off track when Lewis was fighting him for the initial passes. Oh, right. It was much him making a show of oh, look what's happened to me. Is it was an actual thing that he really had to do? The first time when Max was on the gravel, you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You're saying that Max was was making it look worse because he was on the gravel. If you watch the replay, there's barely a car with there's barely a millimeter between them. Where could Max have gone? No by no by the rules, Lewis had that had that corner. So really Max should have backed out. He did. And look, the good thing is Max should have backed out the first corner, which he didn't. And fair enough, he managed to make it through. At least Max in the second left hand,er the other fast one , he did back out and recognized, okay, it's not my corner. I'm going to back out. So he did the right thing the second time. The first time I just don't I just I want us to inform the one here's one thing I've hated the last however many years I've been watching the sport the last twenty thirty years , we tend to always say let's penalize this driver for doing this. Why can't we just have a tough battle where we don't penalize anyone and just have a good time watching it? Like right now I don't want to see max penalized for anything there. I don't want to see lose penalized for anything . The actual racing bits, no, I think it was all fine . The deliberate steering thing. Obviously that's you just want media attention to put on this situation for Max's history and what he's done and the aggressive fans are saying are you saying that any other driver who did that it wouldn't be like a major talking point? Of course it would. Of course it would. It would be it would be like probably the big story . I will disagree with you. There are some drivers. It absolutely would be. If Occon did that to someone over the news? I'd be leading the challenge as well. Albin did it or signs maybe not so much Al.bin would they do different drivers differently? Albun would never. Alban would never have ever. How dare you? Hey, let's talk about the tactical side, shall we? Why don't we move on to the tactical side mat for Verstabben? Go on go on there. I want to say may I say one small , we've just been on the topic for a while. That initial battle for me was the highlight of the entire race. It was the best racing I've seen in a long time . Thank you for giving us some cars that can actually do that. And I was so sad that the Ferrari wasn't really able to raise the whole race with Max that way . Yeah , I mean, we can do a how are the regulations doing so far show at some point for sure. Please don't do that. No, we actually enjoy formula One here on Miss Apex podcast. And everybody slags off the regulations out there, but we love it. Now , the offset that Red Bull were chasing. So remember the end of the race they kind of kept Max out there thinking that they were going to build, you know, he was going to pit have tires six laps fresher than George. I don't think they realize that Max was on the cliff because Matt you mentioned it earlier. There was this kind of old style cliff with the tyres where okay I understand if they pit Verstappen and he comes out six seconds behind Russell and he's got like a six lap offset he came out eleven seconds behind like his tyres were so bad he was almost passed by Kimmy Antonelli. So I think if Red Bull had to do this back again , what I would do Matt is okay, give him two three lap offset and then pit him because he ended up finishing around the same gap he had before the pit stop anyway . You know how when you're in class and you ask a question and your teacher goes, I am so glad you asked that question and you just get that sinking feeling that you've just got okay, here's the thing that everybody is missing or at least in the discussions I've seen. Axe wasn't just trying to beat Russell. Axe was also trying to beat An Tenali. And if you ask me, their choice was pretty simple . We either stay out as long as we can and undercut Antonelli to deny him a big tire life advantage at the end and have to chase Russell down or we cover off Russell and we have Russell and Antonelli chasing us with a big tire life advantage. And which one do you which one would you would you choose to chase Russell ? Or be chased by Antonelli? I don't know, I'm pretty sure I know which one I'd pick, but maybe you're different , I just think the correct thing to do at the end of the day was just pit him three laps after Russell. I'm pretty sure I might be having this wrong, but was Verstappen getting ready to pit until George did? And then obviously they did the opposite or am I getting mixed up with another pit stop? I might know you I think you're absolutely right. It was definitely a do the opposite moment. Yeah, but yeah but I think that sorry go ahead No, no, I was going to say I think Red Bull their thought process was correct about getting the offset. I do think in hindsight they probably looked at it and went okay we didn't realize Max was so his tyres were so shot and so bad that he was going to lose so much time. I do think at any other race track with any other track temp, it kind of works a lot better than it did today. You're disagreeing. I don't know how that that's wrong. I'm correct. I'm disagreeing because the time that he lost at the end of that stent he made up and would have more than made up if it wasn't for the second virtual safety car. I don't agree. In fact, justify that. And in fact, what I would say is you look at how much time Antonelli made up on Max , if you had to undercut one person, you'd undercut Antonelli to save your second place and hope that you catch George assumed that he was never going to c atch George still the correct decision because he finished ahead of Antonelle on merit. If you undercut George and your tires go way off, you're going to lose to George and to Antonelle and that is what they were they were faced with a dilemma and they had to just they had to pick one and I think they picked the correct one based on how I saw Antonelli driving at the end of the race. But before the stint mat, Verstappen was catching George Russell fast. Okay , and then obviously was getting right towards the rear of him and then that's where the do the opposite moment happened. So now why if you just wait even if it's three laps right I'll give him three laps Red Bull come out they, they pit Verstappen and now the gap instead of eleven seconds , they come out behind George Russell with three, four seconds, right? It's much less. I know the tire offset would be less. So there would be less of an advantage, but he was catching him and he's doing less laps on tyres on the cliff . And so I do think he's in with a better shot there to catch George, right? I know this is all hindsight, but I just think that if Red Bull had to do this over again . I just don't think they keep him out as long as possible. Okay. So do you remember the number that I mentioned in our chat? I said after about twenty laps, right? Okay. How old were Max's lap? How old are Max's tires on the last lap ? twenty laps. I'm just saying , you know, I think but then a problem cliff but that cliff exists on if you take away the cliff when he pits, you get the cliff at the end of the r ace. There was going to be a cliff period end of , and which cliff you chose like which adventure do you choose? Do you choose the Antonelli adventure? Or do you choose the Russell Adventure? Well, who has a reputation for having trouble going long on tires? That's Russell, isn't it? So if Russell's on long tires, I can get the undercut on Antonelli and chase him down plus what kind of a driver's max. Does he like to chase cars down with fresh tyres? Yes, he does. So like that also plays into his strengths a little bit. It was no winning that choice. That's what I'm saying. Yes, you're correct. Day, if it was just Russell , what you say is absolutely right, but it wasn't . It was Russell and Antonelli and that second place was at risk if they didn't do the right thing. I have a brilliant and definitive point to make . So I think John O no's main point really was that Verstappen was catching Russell like for like tyres and then what happened by not covering Russell off or not following him in took the pressure off. So now they may have this tyre offset, but you've also given Russell a big lead. So now he can manage things. Now he's got clean air, now he's got no one harassing him. Come into the pits, have fresh tyres , continue that harassment and make Russell use his tyres . Don't don't let him spend the whole because he spent the whole first part of that stint with a big gap and he could just manage . And did you see how many mistakes Russell was making under pressure like I'm pretty sure we saw replays of lockups. We saw off track moments. We saw how he's lost eight tents in this sector. What happened? Like those kind of moments. And so I think if you then have a red bull three, four seconds behind George instead of eleven now George Russell is feeling the heat yeah, right literally because it was very hot. But you know what I mean? Yeah, but he can't and also see that you don't have the option to manage the pace. So instead what was what was the gap when they came out? Was it something like eight seconds that they was like eleven eleven seconds back emerged from the pits? So Russell had six seconds to play with, which he used brilliantly to bring his ties in sensibly, manage that pace, make sure he was not putting any heat into them whatsoever. And then when it got to five seconds, you saw the jump on the timing screen. He suddenly started doing one hundred and eleven s. So I don't know Verstappen's a very aggressive driver like for like , they should they could have backed Max to go just go race George Russell, like you know how to race Russell. Just go race him. Like you're faster than him right now. Who's to say you won't be faster than him at the end of a tough pressure filled next . Russell wasn't the problem. Antonelli was a problem. Yeah, sure go race George. Beat George and then Antonelli beats both of you with his pressure tires and higher pace and just like general teenage lack of fear of anything, right? Yeah, he's he doesn't know enough to make his ties wear. He's like, they probably just won't. They'll be fine. It was unbelievable in his pace at the end . And so I think it was just you had that dilemma as a red bull strateg ist . And George George on old tires is a fat target. Antonelli on fresh way fresher tires is a huge threat. Pick one . And so when George chose the undercut on Max , the answer was okay, we'll give our we'll give Antonelli as little advantage as possible and undercut him and hope that we have the pace to chase George on, which I will still argue , were it not for that little forty second virtual safety car , I'm pretty convinced that that Max would have caught George a laperateu from the end . that And just gave George a chance to cool the surface down enough , but not lose the heat in the bulk . And then from that point on, it was a real challenge for Max. Plus it gave him essentially a lap of not being caught by Max. Extra half second. Yeah . Spanners after this race now and these red bull upgrades, do you take back what you said about Max Verstappen being a ground effect specialist? Or ground effect merchant, no merchant . No, no, not at all. You know, my pushback has been people going, well you can just you drive a truck. It was the tenth best car in the Ground Effects era. I mean, it didn't help there was an analyst who said, Well, if you take away Verstappen, then Red Bulls the tenth best cars well no because that's a massive assumption that then you didn't retrofit the development towards the second driver and that they have the same upgrades and parts which they didn't. And so this narrative that he would with literally any car on the grid would be able to be fighting for the championship. That's the only narrative that I am pushing. I'm sure Matt Max's thing is he can consistently get the best out of a car , obviously very aggressive wheel to wheel, very smart tactically. He can't you can't outdrive the car. If you put him in a cadillac now it's it's it might overtake the the Williams or Aston or something but it's not going to be fighting for the champions hip. And I actually posted where are all those guys that said he'd get a tractor to the front of the grid? And then of course he then goes in starts fighting for the win. I went ah, could not have picked the worst time. Would not have picked the worst time to tweet that? It is the car as well. I mean, Perez one races legitimately on pace against Verstappen once or twice, you know, here and there. So it is possible if they have equal machinery and the car's easy to drive not to get into that topic because I know it's also blasphemous to talk bad about Isaac Hadjar or anyone else and you can sort as the worst driver in the world. I'm not afraid if the second driver of Robert is somehow up there with Max, we'll start talking about it. Until then, there's no's point no point.. There There's way too many variables unless they have a really crazy race. Red Bull, as we know, have the best engine. The FIA have declared it. Oh yes. So we're at a track where basically most of the time you're on a straight, the vast majority of the time you're on a straight, it's straight, turn right. Straight, turn right. Straight, turn right, wiggle wiggle, wiggle wiggle wiggle, straight, turn right. So you're constantly on a straight. So it's not really a surprise that Ferrari struggled for , example, let's see how we go at Silverstone and then see what upgrades we've made. But I think we've got ten minutes here on Ferrari before we go to the awards. The question here is could could what were Hamilton and his strategy team doing? What were they trying to do? What did they give up? It seemed random. From my two cents guys, I will say like I'm, not mad at Ferrari. So we had all the clown pit wall stuff going on on social media and people are saying they threw away a chance at this that or the other, they made the wrong decisions. For my money , they did not have the power for this specific track with its very straight dependent thing. They probably didn't have the right turbo for the altitude. And then the pitbull didn't go, well, let's's just just drift back into P five because they went, well, what can we do? Well, let's try something. Let's change something. Let's go it was an aggressive strategy. They communicated with each other. It didn't work, but it's not like they threw away a win. Like I'm not I'm not angry. I it didn't work, but I'm not mad. I will follow up with worst case scenario. Maybe you could make a it should have been a four instead of a five. It was never a podium. Larger issue is we're in Austria, our first race at altitude . It is unusually hot in Austria . We are not used to temperatures like this and oh look, we have a whole bunch of things we've just changed on our power unit . What a great time to change them. We're not we're not at sea level, we're not in a place in a temperature window we've been working with our previous power unit, so I have this extra complexity across the weekend to deal with and specifically because we know because of a radio call , they had thermal issues . What caused them? What exactly? Does it matter? No , but they were that car was not on it from the whole weekend. It was especially not on it in today's race . And I'm really impressed that they were able to still get a decent finish out of it despite having to run a very different strategy to everybody else. And Matt's correct. Had they known Ferrari have performed their three stop strategy. Sorry, what I should have said was had they known if they were going to lose P four to Piastri, I think they would have stuck with a two stop. They were probably too busy trying to replicate Barcelona post race said he encouraged that as well. Can we also point that out too? So let's not clown the entire Ferrari strategy team exists. Looks Barcelona was such like a like we've discovered this new play. We've discovered this great new play where the aggressive attacking three stop guys what. happen Buted in Barcelona was everyone went, what are they doing? Should we be doing that? And then they went with them and then didn't go with them. But this time everyone was like, Oh, right, yeah, okay. Go and play in the sand if you want to, then the difference in Barcelona as well was he didn't have to pass cars to win because the virtual safety card put him out in P one true today we saw with the lack of straight line speed that Matt said right the Ferrari is struggling in straight line spe ed. We all know that they have , you know, significant deficit and it felt weird watching Lewis on fresh tyres struggle to get past Piastri. It took him quite a while compared to what Rubbery had to pass Hadjah. So let's just assume for a minute that the issues had to do with the power unit or the battery. So it's overheating now. So you have to put it in you have to manage the power unit. What mode did they put it into? TSE . Paddy says that that stands for Tiffosi saddening mode. Which when you hear Lewis , his response to that was like, I already don't have any power. But fundamentally, do you blow up your new engine or do you manage it so it doesn't blow up? You manage it so it doesn't blow up. But then you don't have as much power. So then you know what happens? You're going slower. When you go slower, you know what you don't have as much of cooling , but also downforce. So suddenly all those really great calculations your engineers did on their Excel spreadsheets for your suspension settings, they don't work anymore because you're not going as fast. And then when you don't have that downforce, guess what makes up for it? Your tires, then they don't last as long because they're never really quite in the window you want them to be. And then you know what you have to do, put extra tires on. If you really want to ding Ferrari , de themem fored not looking at Bordelletto , seeing he ran seventeen laps on the soft tire from the start and was losing zero time to people around him. I think the soft tire in retrospect in hindsight would have been a better choice for your second stent because then on the third stent with a hard, you can use that virtual safety car and then you're in a window with the people you originally wanted to be racing. So how much it did create an offset. Medium, hard , soft . Yeah . Yeah. Medium medium hard, soft. Yeah . And then and then hard and then hard and then hard again . And it was used soft as well. That was the other issue. Well, it was I think it was one lap used. So scrub soft scrubs off. Scrub scrub it wasn't the worst thing in the world . I look , the other thing as well , just before I forget is that do you guys know the points gap between so ant Antonelli and Hamilton's now forty six points and Hamilton to Leclerc is forty six points . Now just thought I point that out. Saturday day . Back to what Hamilton should have done in what Ferrari should have done on this occasion . The whole pitting under virtual safety car, do you agree ? I think in that situation they had to take it. It's tempting, isn't it? It's too tempting. Kyle was going mad in our panel WhatsApp chat and I came around to his way of thinking so by doing the stop onto the hards a bit earlier than everyone else they commit to a three stop and then they're out of sync with everyone so may,be you get more opportunities to be in clean air. It didn't work out. But then by going on to that stop, they then kind of put themselves back in sync with everybody else , ruined their plan , except they now had to have had an extra stop and they were going on to scrub soft . So it's tempting to take the slightly cheaper stop, but surely they lost more time overall by abandoning their strategy. It felt like Lewis was passing cars left, right and center throughout today because if you put a strategy on rails, you know, when you do that whole thing where oh a three stops quicker than a two stop but you got to consider the amount of time you're going to spend overtaking people. So if you take that factor out, Matt, I think possibly the three stop wasn't too bad, but that costs them fourth place Possibly not too bad, but I think the variable that everybody got very wrong was in fact the effect of not just dirty air but hot, dirty, thin air . Because to me, running in traffic , in these cars that can now be so much closer, you're just ingesting air that's been heated to exhaust temperatures into your engine, into your cooling, and it just doesn't work as well. And add the altitude to it. I think just a lot of people got their maths because I'll use the UK word for it. Slightly wrong on that one. And that's why you saw the sort of a multiplied Im in traffic effect that we haven't seen at other circuits. Correct. And you saw the whole, I mean, you mentioned to FOSI saddening mode, how they had to turn the car down and everything was yeah, and that too . Now I think that had something to do with the smaller turbo which I read there's some science to it. I'm not going to go into it. I'm too tired it's like six AM but it would have caused Ferrari to suffer from more overheating. By the way, can we get rid of this whole pre start procedure now? It's been like seven races. Can we give Ferrari their advantage back? No I would wait if you did that. Yeah, it was incorrect. Chantal said something like Well, for Ferrari's don't wound so much . Yeah, so that all Mercedes have magically caught up. No, the FIA hobbled completely hobbled Ferrari's advantage. So honestly, that's a travesty that they did that. two years of development in one sentence. Oh, you mean the thing that Vasort said, you had the same amount of time to solve it, but yeah, yeah, yeah, Ferrari should definitely have a right to be upset about that. Now you said we're going to spend because the podcast were almost done. Can we spend five minutes on Alpain? No, no . Can we spend five minutes on McLaren quickly? No, we have not finished with Ferrari. Thank you for your input on the schedule. However, we still have some Ferrari to let him. So yeah, so look with Hamilton they they tried stuff, they went for it. They knew that it was kind of a mission to nothing. I think if this had been a title fight like the end of a, you know, towards the end of the season, you might go back, we need that P four every point count. At this point, I think they are high on their dopamine supply. So they had they had podium dopamine rushing through their veins and that is what they were going for. They haven't lost an awful lot. It was the ambitious thing to do. And honestly, I think if they had tried nothing, if they had just let Hamilton stay out on those hards and then just kind of lost pace and gone down gone down and lost touch with the top three, we've said, why didn't they try something? I think we would have said that. Good point. Okay, so no , I was just gonna add to that. The one thing I think we need to all stop doing as well. I've seen a few calls for this is Charlotte Clerk is not moving over for Lewis Hamilton. Tell me about the battle. This is I don't understand the mentality. So I understand drivers wanting to race their teammates. I mean, what do you do? So you're saying you want him to move over. Oh god of course. In this this is point of the season. In this race, Le Clerk was nowhere, had no pace, was no threat to anyone. They were on different strategies. They had put Hamilton behind Leclerc and the McLarens and the VCARbs . The one thing you don't want when you've got a power unit disadvantage on a track that is basically all straight is to be dumped back into traffic. But when one of those cars for this alternate strategy you're going for is the teammate go it's so simple Charles, different strategies, especially the second one. The second one, Charles, you're about to pit , get out of the way just, get out of the way . But you guys are talking about if these people aren't human. Charlotte Klerk signed to be a Ferrari equal driver with his teammate. He didn't sign up to be Sergio Perez . He was absolutely equal to Louis passed him on like the first or second lap . Then Lewis was the lead driver . And the fact is he was on an entirely different tire strategy. Now look, I get you know, I get like you want to beat your teammate and stuff. And I get like , it's fun to dice, but actually weirdly Lewis is in sort of a we should probably maximize his points as much as possible and you're running a different tire strategy. Yeah, that's not good. Yeah, you guys can play sometimes, but right now is not the time kids. You need to sit down and be quiet while your parents are in court or whatever. fact, John O of it being so early would be big, it would be a big thing. So it would be a massive talking point, but it absolutely makes sense at this point. We have had a run since before Canada with the brakes, with the upgrades where this is suiting Hamilton more than Leclerc. So do you want to be if you're Charles right now and you know you're struggling? Do you want to be the driver that's not only missing out on points and pace , but you're also causing your teammate to have problems holding him up and then you walk back into the garage yeah, and then what was it? Sunday night? Oh, we're all going to this Bavarian sausage place to commemiserate. We're going to have Bratfirst. Here's your Ferrari lader Hosen. And then they're all chatting away. Charles turns up and they're like, oh, there's that guy who not only hasn't been doing well, but also has been a barrier to the car that is doing well, scoring points and getting on and doing stuff , you know, oh can you pass the salt please? Sorry Charles, what? And he's like, surely you can just pass the salt and they're like, No, no salt for you, Charles. You made our day worse. So you want everyone to be happy but Charles to be miserable? Okay, so hijacked okay what happens at Silverstone? If they do an ultrgygy, the clerk's running around in forth, Hamilton's fighting for the win. We're not letting Hamilton go through to win it Silverstone to help him go chase and hunt down Antonio. We're not doing that. That's alternate strategy. Yeah , I get what you're saying today they were on slightly alternate strategy and he did hold him up a little bit. It wasn't that much. Did he hold him up by that much ? Why was it ? Why was it anything? Why is it? No, no, no, no, brainer call just to go just let him by. They're not holding them up because you don't know what's going to happen next. That Patty So yeah, what you're saying is today you know, Car,los Santi or whoever Charlotte Clark's engineer is as well Santi is how agent engineer. Yeah, yeah. So they should have just said, Hey, you guys are an alternate strategy. Don't hold each other up, let him through. We'll just have to say just have some comments. Like, they are team players to an extent like this just wasn't the time for pride to get involved . It's like it's just weird fighting when you've clearly been you've been dunked on for pace and so what you're salvaging a little bit of pride. Patty says Char les is rich, handsome and talented. We cannot have him be happy as well. Absolutely. I agree . Yeah . But at some point, let's say that Hamilton does go on a run and starts mixing it with the blood Antonelli just needs one more engine blow up, right? And Russell might be within fifteen points. So it's forty points now. An Antonelli engine blow up and he's in within fifteen points. If Hamilton was to come in second at Silverstone with Russell first. Then suddenly Hamilton's within a race win. I don't know if my math is massive very well. Maybe not quite yes, he is. He will be within a race win. So from one hundred and twenty eight, he will go to one hundred and forty eight. Now one hundred and twenty five now and then gets eighteen points for P two . Yeah . That's maths. That's actual maths, Jono. No one hundred and forty three points. So one hundred and forty three to one hundred seventy one. That's that's quite. So then after that , what you've got is a title fight between three drivers. Le Clerk is sitting on seventy nine points right now. seventy nine points, not in that battle. At what point do you go, well, we've got to protect Charles' pride. At what point do you just go, this is Reichen two thousand seven. This is two thousand eight. So do you know what I mean? Like you've got to at some point just go, yeah, sorry, it's not happening for you. You're not wrong, and I agree with you. You don't want to take points away from each other in time and everything. But since when in Lewis's career has he ever done this, has he ever wanted a flaw? It's been a flaw. It's been a floor. This has been an absolute professional flaw of Lewis Hamilton. He hasn't tried to play fair. Yeah, yeah. We should not ever does Max play fair? No, Vista goes in there percent. Vestal goes in there with his dad and they try and control the team. He should have been there in there with Anthony Hamilton kicking over tables, like, you know, having equal status with what was his name? Who was the Finnish guy in two thousand eight? Kova Liner ? Yeah, having equal status with Kova Liner aren't you? Come on. I just no legitimate chance to complain about anything died when Louis passed him on track. That's it. And disappeared. And you get displayed these days. You can talk about all the other stuff all you want. Legitimately, Hamilton was faster than you. He passed you. I looked at the raised trace of nothing but Ferrari. He had peso. You were never going to be that guy. Man, you were probably closer than Barcelona, so you should maybe take, you know, you should be like, okay , I'll be myself up a little bit . But no, no , this we could look back at the season and say, oh, yeah, it was always going to be a Mercedes Walk. We just weren't sure what driver it was, but you look at races like today, these regulations are so chaotic. No , no way do I let anyone throw away any chance winning a championship because who knows when it will be this open again amongst the Ferrari, Red Bull Mercedes tri o. No Stuart, I would not kick his puppy as well . I honestly have so much admiration for the clerk. It's just not happening right now and we're opening up to the maths if the clerk had turned it around today, this now and gone Oh, he's actually comfortably he's quicker than Hamilton today. If you were showing those kind of signs, then yeah, but at the point where you're already fifty points behind nearly. So hang on, I'm really struggling with master forty six. Forty six points you're already Hamilton. Yeah. No, no, no, Leclerc to Hamilton. Oh, forty six as well, yes. Yes, forty six is. Yeah, you're already forty six points behind and you've had a string of races where you do not look on pace. Right now, like it's kind of too late, isn't it? It's too late to turn around and say, Oh, you want equal status. The momentum is with Hamilton. So I like Leclerc and I think he's been brilliant. I think Ferrari do have a hab it of doing this. The mistake was signing back on when your team brought in a seven time world champion for a billion squillion pounds or whatever it was. Like how did you think that was going to go? And it's not just that Hamilton was expensive. It's not just that he's a seven time world champion. It's that he's an absolute megastar. So yeah, everyone in the garage is going to get excited. He's bringing into the paddock some of the most famous people in the world. There's a huge effect around that and when the second Hamilton signed we said danger for a clerk, danger for a clerk. He stuck it out. This is currently the consequence and no, you can't go scrapping the lap on your in lap go scrapping with the guy who gapped you at the beginning of the race just because you've got a nice puppy. That's not how it works. Now I've always said this based on what we've seen now Hamilton's out of these ground effect the Ricars and he's got a different c toard Shalle Lecerc. We know Hamilton's tier one and I always say they're five star drivers . Is Leclerc still four and a half star on a Nico Rossberg level ? Or is that rating Leclerc too high now . Do we drop him down to four stars? What do we have the data? He's not been in a good enough car for us to know for sure if he has that thing that we know Hamilton and establish have. We need to see Leclerc in a title fight. Yeah, because if you if your twenty twenty two wasn't that was an illusion caused by some reliability issues with Red Bull. If you a title fight is different because look at Piatri, right? Before he was in a title fight, you go quiet, quiet, quiet, great result. Quite quiet quiet, great result. In a title fight, you go, oh, it's under, you know, analysis and then you see fifth place, fifth place, fifth place, fifth place and you go, right, well, that's not. You can't really do that in a title fight. You know, no one can do that in a title fight and come out on top . And then you say look at Carlos Science as well. So Carlos Science hasn't been in a title fight, but when he was at Ferrari, like every six races or so he pulled out a great res ult and that would build up his reputation. So until they're locked into that kind of do or die every race matters, we can't get as good a read on say the clerk. You're right Matt, as we,'ve had on Saint Noris and Wilvernappen or Hamilton. Wait, did you just say I was right? Could Steve, could you just clip that for me? Thanks. Oh , is it your birthday? So, you know, that's not quite, but yeah, I'll take it. Okay, so for any other topics we have , we could we could pull them seamlessly into awards . And yes, I know there's some kind of processing thing that's making the bumpers make funny noises. Please remind me to fix the audio on that , but it is the podium for the Austrian Grandpri track that I that I love. I know it's different. I know , you know, it's it's not got the complexity of Silverstone. It's not got the history of Mon aco in the same way , but it does have just a unique offering where it says right, we are this type of racetrack. We're at altitude. We know we're going to drag up to these corners. We're going to make err or generating corners where you can overtake and then attack down to the next section. We're not going to worry about track limits or do anything to fix that really . But apart from that, we're a great track ye.ah And, it's definitely in my top five of the season and it will obviously be overshadowed by Silverstone the greatest ever track that's ever ever existed . But I think this was an entertaining race. I think the regulations and this track su ited each other very, very well . We're going to give out our awards now. So we start with the negative thing so we can end on a positive note. So now it's our missed Apex award . Oh , you missed a thepe x . And see, Jonathan Saman. It's early in the morning for you, buddy. Dike, I would love to say you look fresh as a daisy, but you look terrible. Don't judge him on this video. He's normally very handsome . Of course, because you're in your prime, you're in your pump. You are twenty seven It's thirty a prime. No, many age are? How many agrees? Are you thirty? I'm thirty, yes. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I'm in shape from like the neck not really it's not really about in shape, Johno. You need to be TV good looking. You are on the you're over the brow. You're over the hill, it's on the way down now. But we'll put links in to so you can show off all your TV reporting stuff and is TikTok still a thing? You're still trying that? You're giving up. Yeah, I'm still trying that when they don't, you know, shadow ban some of my posts Thank you, TikTok for helping me not make a career out of myself. Yeah, stuff in TikTok. Okay, so follow Johno on all the links below, but Johno, who missed the APAC for you? The straight line mode. And I called this preseason when I looked at it and it was like flimsy and it just looked like Lego gone wild . That actually sounds like something I don't think I'd ever want to watch. We don't need to clarify that statement anymore Versappen had the crash in qualifying of course in Q three Everybody saw it except for George Russell and I believe it was due to what crash the rear wing not closing. Yeah, where was it? What crashed? Was that was that a car? Was that car shaped thing? A car? I thought the wall always had a red bull in it . Yeah. And that's for stopping. But they said it failed, but is the driver not responsible for turning off or does it is it like DRS it turns off on the brake or? So this was great analysis. I watched Anthony Davidson look through Lewis Hamilton's massive moment through the same corner during the race if you remember Lewis had a big moment and he kind of slid out, saved the car, Lewis had to manually turn his off, went to press the button and you know when you press a button but you didn't actually click it all the way so then Lewis is gone Oh crap I'm turning in, I better actually press it properly this time and that's why he's had the snap because it didn't close properly. Now I called this preseason and I said this stuff looks slightly flimsy . Can we not make it a bit safer where system will just reject it going into a corner like it should or make the zone shorter so then we have more margin for error going into a corner if that makes sense. Like I feel like right now it's we're going to see more of these moments later in the season I feel like a Vestappen crash. I don't know if that had to do with the rear wing shutting or if it was the upgrade. I definitely know Hamilton was one spin away from a massive accident himself, but I just feel like we just need to fine tune this. There's so much focus on the power units and the battery and the five thousand fifty output. Let's put a little bit of safety on the straight line mode as well Excellent. Okay, that's a good missed Apex award. Matt Trumpets who m,issed the ape x for you? Well, up until I heard Lego Gone Wild , it was going to be Williams. However , now it's I'm sorry. That is a joke. Um, no, William . Like what? Just oh, just what? I mean no, I cannot never mind. Just Lord. It's upsetting, isn't it? Because they're they're overweight, they're slow, they're unreliable , they don't have any downforce . But apart from that, it's going well. Yeah, no, it's just very frustrating because like you can see the elements are there and on tracks that disguise their weaknesses , they do they do They do a decent job. Science is a good driver, Alban's a good driver , but oh man when you see the weaknesses it just it hurts. It really, really hurts. But when Science pulled up , he just seemed like, oh good,. You know, it's like you get to knock off work early because the firearms went off. That's the attitude he seemed to have, and he didn't seem upset at all. And then me and Chris talks about it, but he made a recent comment to the press and said, Well, you know , maybe F one should centralize the contracts of all the drivers and be disassociated with the brand. And then all the drivers can take turns with all the different cars. All the cars, yeah. So why are you? I don't blame them. Why are you continuing to speak , just stop speaking for a little while. Just William send someone out . He was off the rails and also Matt as well. Do you think we should have some mercy rule in F one? Like Aster Martin should we just say look Alonso if you're one lap behind the driver in front, you just go, look, we'll put you out of your misery. Just come into the garage. Let's have a little horsata, whatever you call that Spanish drink, and let's just chill out for the world. We will AI your car onto the track at various points, just so no one has to know. And so yeah, I think Gormat I was going to say, I thought Alonso had that dialed in during his McLaren years. Yeah . Well, he's still been doing it today . I thought one hundred se andven percent was supposed to be the Mercy Rule. We need something like a one hundred or one lap percent or whatever that's a poor name for it, but you know what I mean? Mercy rule formula. Well, I'll just give my missed Apex award then to Caterum, Mauritia and Virgin. Well, was that the three teams that were at the back the last time we had an influx of new teams? HR T. H. Yeah. They get my Miss Apex award. Oh, sorry. I mean, Candlak, Aston Martin, and William.s So yeah, like Cadillac operationally, that's not good. So the first time they've encountered any kind of hot temperatures, both their brakes have exploded and they're on fire. So that's that's a fluff. And that to me that smacks out of one person making an error and not calculating the heat, which I won't go on my thermal engineer's lack of thermal thermal consideration I do. I know you do. They just don't think about it. I was surprised more batteries didn't go. But yeah, so someone at Kad got that wrong with the brakes and then they blown up. But to be honest, it's a mercy kill at this point because you had William Albon two laps down, didn't you? And you had alonzo lapped out getting lapped , but he got lapped by the next car ahead of him who was also too lapsed down then lapped him and you go fast almost almost lapped in. Okay f,air almost yeah they got very close and then he pulled five seconds away it was a thrilling battle . Did he did he hang on? That does remind me the one time on i racing I was in an interlagos race and Groson Roman G roj wasan lapping me and I could see him in the relative box so he's re d, isn't he because he's lapping? So I would have been blue to him and I'm like, I just want to not be lapped by Grojan and I managed to finish a second ahead for being laedugh. I go ah, yes ,ict vory . The most pathetic victory of my life. So my mistake goes to yeah all that bottom three . They are in dire dire strike. Like who's cadillac not that disappointing because you know, just get settled in. Come on get set,tled . You seem cold. Come in, we'll we'll put a blanket on you and make you a cup of tea. That's fine. Aston Martin is an absolute unmitigated disaster and and Williams is just it's disappointing because they set our expectations so high. Let's end on a posit ive then It's our thing of the Weekend Award We get to be positive here John O hit the Apex for you Ted Kravitz was amazing . He always is. He always is. Always is. Well, he was on a different level. He put up like a sixty point triple double this weekend. Like, you know, what's a like he had a hatrick? Like a football equivalent saying like he had a hatrick. What's another sport in this? Yeah , you get to keep the match ball, you know, so yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was he gets to keep the match ball like after this weekend like he was absolutely hilarious. I think his Saturday notebook was one of the best ever I've. Obviously not everybody watches the broadcast on Sky. However, I think you can go and find the paddock walk thing that he does, the Ted book and Ted's notebook thing. Yeah, that's the one. I mean his one after qualifying was next level . It was actually hilarious. But yeah, he was just like on it this weekend because you know some weekends you know Ted Krabitz get a bit awkward no it's weird Yeah he's not permitted yeah yeah boo '.s He doing like thirty minute improv on his own, speaking on his own without anyone to bounce off. Like that is actually a skill no one should have that because we do I do the Saturday streams and then there was one time I was like, I,' Ohve been talking for fifty minutes on my own. And Alec said, Yeah, but that's a street that's a skill that people shouldn't have. That's a sign of something bad. But no, his are so well informed, they're well researched, he goes with a flow. You have to accept the pacing. When it's a solo show, you have to accept different paced pacing. So when you listen to like Mark Merren or whatever on his podcast, you have to realize that's not going to be as dynamic a bounce around as a good hang with Amy Pollar, for example. So I think it's it's special. I think the Ted Kravitz content is special. Okay, I wasn't slagging off Ted Kravitz versus other than my hero worship praise is slagging him off . Look, there's only been I think like four NBA players of all times put up a sixty point triple double that he did that this weekend. Well done . Okay , that's good. Matt, who hit the Apex for you? I'm just going to go for this whole season You didn't think of anything late. No, no, no, no, no. Do you want very specifics? I could go with the Max Lewis, the first lap battle. That to me was utter highlight. I think Red Bull's power unit, like we make jokes about a duo, but look at how it performed today. In the heat where everybody else was struggling, that thing it was impeccable. I would say it's on fire, but that would be actually wrong. That was Cadillac that was on fire. The whole season should have been a Mercedes Walk. It's a brand new regulations for power units, fast power unit wins hands down. And look, it's anything but it's sheer chaos . I've never seen happy accident, broken clock. I don't care. I just love watching it. I love watching these cars. I love that they move around under braking, they move around under traction. The drivers are constantly having make adjustments to keep them on the track. It's just brilliant and I love straight lay mode. Sorry, Jonathan, but thank goodness , we've got rid of DRS to make pass . This also makes me very happy. Yeah, whenever anyone complains about Yo yo passes, you go do you do you want DRS trained back? Like is that ? Would you have swapped that back and forth with how because at least you got to kind of you could see we understand it now. When you saw Hamilton's flashing light, you were like, oh, he's in the regen. So like Vestappen's got a great chance here and actually like underbraking Verstappen was immense today. Fantastic. And then you go, but Hamilton was reenjning, so he's going to have a chance to pass back, but both of those could have failed. So Hamilton could have maybe we didn't really stand a chance of defending that first one, but Verstappen could certainly had a chance of defending the second one. They had to race, whereas before they wouldn't have had that opportunity to race . So I missed the Apex, I hit the Apex award , there is some negatives with it as well. So there's some sort of mini apex compliment. Yeah , kind of the TV direction and the broadcast . Okay You heard Crofty Spanish sorry to interrupt yeah, he was getting restless. He was getting restless in the comments . They would have a big it was peaky, it was peaky. So there was some bad stuff about it, like just hyper focusing, ultra focusing on the back of someone's head and the camera or the rest of the action out of focus in the middle of like this big chase. You're like , what, what are they doing? The replace cutting away at the Vitamins, whatever. But the drone shot as Hamilton and Verstappen were chasing around five and six was I think the best ever shot of anything in F one. That's the best ever sequence of F one on TV ever because whoever the drone pilot was nailed it. Was just at the right point ahead of them. Obviously can't go as fast as an F one car but was tracking it and held on just in time and then they cut perfectly away when the drone couldn't keep up . Sadly that wasn't consistent. There was a lot of the drone shots that were just I was like oh actually feel sick like okay I know, you nailed the first one, but yeah think of Ferrari with a three stop strategy. It doesn't just work every time. Okay . And so you go, again, innovation though for trying it took my breath away during that Hamilton Verstappen battle, I just couldn't believe how well that shot paid off. And the opening lap when they they had the drone shot and it had the McLaren side by side. That was fun too. But you're right. I got sick a few times. Yeah, it was yeah, I didn't they need to find a way like if it's an angle. Is that what's making me feel rough or like does it need to be straight or whatever? But yeah hey hats off for trying it I mean it really was like a great innovation and it's not always going to be right out of the box . I find it impressive too because the cars are going two hundred and fifty three hundred kilometers an hour into that quarter almost keeping up. I assume there's some zooming happening as well. So as it falls back, you also zoom in so to make it. Yeah. Anyway, it's an innovation, but yeah, do you remember they tried it like was it last year ? And it was every single drone shot was did make you feel a bit sick and queasy. Whereas now some of them don't. So that is an upgrade. Go and follow Jonathan Simon. The links will all be in the show notes below. You can get information on what Matt is up to as well. We have some floaty plans now for Sunday in Silverstone, but if there's an opportunity to catch up with you guys, we'll let you know. And if you see us around Silverston, for the love of God, just say hi. Like you're not bothering us. We have had messages in the past saying, Oh , I saw you guys, but you were whatever. Just come and say hello, you can't be bothering us because like what? What's going to? I'm going to talk to Matt the whole time. Is that is that what's happening? I'm just gonna say come and save me from Matt. Save me from Matt Trumpets. Consider being a patron as well. Patreon. com forward slash missed apex. It is what makes it possible for us to do this as part of our professional sphere and to compete with the big boys. The big boys all have production money behind them. We don't. We have you . They have advertising budgets. We have you telling your friends that Mrs. Apex is a kind of okay place to hang out. Until we'll see you next , work hard , be kind and have fun . This was Mrs. Apex podcast. Go to sleep , little Johnny . You're on the wrong side of the world