Vagus Nerve Stimulation and Migraines

British supremacy in messaging services. We need to try and get everybody to use WhatsApp. It's a superior messaging system and Americans refuse to use it Do you think We was talking about this earlier as to why Americans don't use WhatsApp more One of the theories is that America had free SMS before anybody else So U Brits had to pay. How much work did it used to be for a text back in the day? fifteen p maybe? fifteen p. ten p. T p. That would ramp up very fast. But that was why people used to use Lite speak, right? That was why you was there. like L why because you were trying to snap everything to under one hundred sixty characters. Yeah. I once when I was fourteen years old, had my first ever girlfriend And we would text and we would text and we would text. You fucking bankrupted yourself. my dad's My dad comes down one day. And you know when you have like A four that you'd stack in a printer, he just drops that So itund the phone bill and it' wrapped up about eight hundred. Itemized bill, text messages, yes So I then sent her's a lot of sexting at fourteen. I then sent her one final text, which was, can't do texts anymore, let's do calls. So we did calls all the time nextxt month So I had to pay off about tw thousandve hundred, thirteen hundred pounds of debt to my father stillop paying it off. Yeah pay payment plan. Dad, you're cop bllocking me. So that's how one fourteen, I'm trying to get I'm try to get my credit. But yeah, I just Whatspp to superi Tbuss what Whatspp Tims got a month I look, I use every new inbox that is slowly eroding the sanity of everybody who's losulous. D you guys see the Nikita Beard tweet a long time ago? It feels like he said something like every time I use WhatsApp, it feels like I landed in a third world country. You're allowed to say that Fair You're allowed to say that. I'm We race sw. I grew up on Long Island. I think I'm allowed to say it. R race swapped Sean for you. Fair enough. That's the primeary think I'm sitting in the same spot. That's correct. yeah. Pople like Sean. Lost weight and the beard's gone. This is the desert seity for the minority. You grew up on Long Island. I didn't know that. W? Oh yeah, wayay up I Montuck. Back when there were potato farms, that explains a lot. That has changed. Now there' nightcubs that make all the locals crazy, but yes. So is that beyond the Hamptons? Yeah, Montauk is the end of the line. So if you take Long Island Railroad out from New York City will end in Montau And It was It was a perfectly fine place to grow up. I didn't realize how strange it was until I got older. because strange when you're growing up, what is around you is normal because even a reference point, but you're growing up in a location where you have barbell of income and wealth Distribution right you've got All the let's just say the broad Hamptons that people know, which would have like the one hundred million dollar homes on the beach. and all these famous directors and financiers and little white shorts playing tennis, and then you have, on the other hand, like affordable housing. When I was growing up, like crack epidemic in certain parts I didn't realize how much was missing from the middle of the whole thing. Okay, have you ever seen Mickey Mantle's questionnaire answer onn the fiftieth anniversary of the Yankees Stadium So this I feel like this is the kind of question my dad asked me. He's like, do you know? All right. Henry Rubenstein from eighteen thirty nine. I'm like, now, I' sorry I don't. Mickey Mantle describes in basically a yearbook for the Yankee Stadium. It's the fifiet anniversary of Yankees Stadium happening Mickei Mandel, Ebody is asked, tellell us what your most outstanding experience at Yankee Stadium was. And this was sold for two hundred forty two thousand dollars. notot long ago, a few years ago. He said, I consider the following my outstanding experience at Yankees Stadium questionna I got a blow job under the right field bleaches by the Yankee Bullpen then below that. says This event occurred on or about Brackets, give as much detail as you can says It was about the third or fourth inning. I had pulled a groin and couldn't walk at the time She was a very nice girl and asked me what to do with the come after I came in her mouth. I said, D't ask me I'm no cockscker signed Mickey Manneel, the All American boy. and that was sold About five years ago for two hundred and forty two thousand dollars. Wow Spe on ch Speaking hedge fund managers, Im sure that's in the guest bathroom of some hedge fund manager's third home. It's a boggain Do you think that's a bogy? In Montauk or thereabouts? Yeah. I don't know, M. I mean Like baseball's got a lot of superstition, but that feels like it's taking it to an extreme There's like a baseball player that had never washed his helmet or cleaned it or did anything for his entire career Literally the helmet look I think it's Craigio, if I'm not mistaken, but the helmet was just And he believed in that so much It had to be that way, never changed.en the guys walk out and they go rightight glove, left glove, tap tap on the foot. Yeah. it's it' goes from being prereference to routine to superstition, to ritual to basically something sacred. It's essentially a rain dance that every or mental illness I think those two crossover reire you to all of my mental. There's a rain dance for now on. I'm gonna to take these suckers off. that's enough fucking POV porn, which actually was the reason that we wore these when we had a Bonnie Blue on the podcast so we could put POV in the title of the episode. Has she done one of those with PO with these? I'm sure if you go dark enough and deep enough into the Only fans rarab a hole you can find whatever you need. I take my toothpick out of my mouth before I address the table. One of the things that I've been fascinated with for a while, I know you have as well, Christopher. I don't know about you, two gentlemen. But u etymologies of everything I was trying to rank my favourite etymologies or history of certain parts of language One of them is u notot English, but it's Malaysian and in Malayian culture they use double rather than plural So rather than tables, they will use table table which is one of my favorite things. What is this three? So it doesn't scale. so it doesn't go would be a nightmare. If you're a table factory maker, the same way we just use plural we say tables, you could say four tables. They would say I assume the number then table table She's such a fun way of saying things. Yeah sameame in Indonesian also. Yes. like Orang Hutan, manan of the forest, Orang Ourang is men, right? M, men. Man of the men. That's different. Well, not, a man of man I think that's something hear bopic.. But it's so much better than a lot of heavy editing. One of my favorite ones though? is the word soon So the word soon I will be there soon was the Anglo Saxon word for now But because so many people kept saying, I'll do that soon and didn't do it Then We then created the word now to replace it and soon is what it is today. It soon got shifted down into just how urgent it me genereneration by generation. What was interesting now now has that effect, where if somebody says, I'll do that now You don't really take them Literally unless they say I'llly. I'll do that immediately now. Yeah So it's interesting that you're seeing this drifting of now now occur as well. I wonder if's literally is the same as that. Becauseuse when people say literally, they don't mean literally I literally couldn't believe it exactly. Well, no you could L believe it. Yes, which is the entire point My friend Alessio, he's Italian and he talks about how he has a different personality when he's speaking in Italian. The Swedish writer Henrk Carlson, a friend of mine, he talks about how he can access different thoughts. in Swedish rather than English You speak Multiple langues. Yeah, what's Japanese t like N more polite. Yeah curses less than L Island. Are you totally fluid in Japanese? Yeah, I can speak Japanese.. What's the story of learning that My first international trip, real international trip off of Long Island out of the US was to Japan as an exchange student at fifteen for a year. I went from coast to Tokyo And it took me about three weeks just to accept that I was in Japan because I couldn't believe it U That's how that happened. And it just stuck. I was there for a year. I went to a Japanese school all of my classes in Japanese. misunderstood what I was told before getting there, which was you're going to have Japanese lessons. and I was like, oh, great Japanese language lessons and they're like Here's your class schedule. And I was like, I can't read any of this and they're like, phhysics, world history. Oh My lessons are going to be in Japanese. They're not gonna to have lessons yout So that will especially I was lucky because this was free smartphone Innet, not much to speak of. So I could not coming back to WhatsApp, right? I couldn't procrastinate or avoid learning Japanese by constantly communicating with anyone in English. There was no escape. There was just total emotion no escape. That seems to be I get it. peopleeople go and do university courses in Spanish and stuff and it's not just that language. sometometimes they're learning about the history and the culture and other stuff like that. But if you're trying to learn a language, and did in school, we have to do at least one language in our GCSEs, typically the eleventh sixteen s in the UK I did Spanish apart from the most basic stuff that I've probably remembered because I've gone back out to the country, I basically learned nothing. It would be If you just wanted people to learn a language, doing a six week immersion would what teach you may be the same as a year of weekly classes. You could do a year in six weeks, no problem. There's a Myhical called the Michelle Thomas method and Michelle Thomas Mail was Holocaust survivor then became an intelligence officer ended up speaking five or six different languages and developed a method of getting people up to Basic conversational fluency and A week in a rush and a weekend in terms of giving them the scaffolding ofph the grammar and so forth. But it's a lot like learning some type of very fine motor skill, right? If you wanted to learn how to play tennis,s like if you're playing once a month, you're never going to learn tennis even once a week just not getting the density of practice and the reinforcement for you to go from the like unconscious incompetence, to conscious competence, et cetera, et cetera. right? You're just not getting the proper density So languages, I think you can learn languages a lot faster as an adult than you can as a kid, actually. Why because you already have the base layer of labeling and concepts and so on. and differentifferent types of abstraction in the form of, let's just say grammar or a subjunctive, let's say, if you had a million dollars, what would you do? like a hypothetical that is counterfactual These types of things, I can explain that to you. You can't explain that to a three year old. When's the last time you talked to a three year old, they're not actually very good That' speaking a given language The reason that people mistakenly believe that kids learn faster is because the kids have no choice. The kids have no mortgage. the kids have no job. It's just like forced into emotion. You have no choice. Have you heard Nas and Talibs description of how to learn a language So the best way to learn Russian is to go into a Russian jail I mean, that's a harsh That's harsh trade. Yeah's. Like de that scenario. You have to really w want to learn in Russia. But you will, you will learn. Do you think can you think in Japanese Tim Yeah, I would say that there's u in English interface, but when I was in Japan for a year and then came back to the U.S, it took me about a month to get back to aking English normally I remember the first few days when my mom would come in and wake me up and I would just start speaking to her in Japanese in this Days and it took a while to get back to things. The soon is pretty funny, etymology of that And it makes me wonder if the much like lets say Eskimos in snow, right or Hawaiians in and water or whatever, that it depends on the historical uality of a You can say that the Italians have got five words for so. Well, I think it probably is something like that, right? Because in Japan, it's like now is now there is no ' the second third, fourth way to say it unless you're maybe being really polite because honorificics in Japanese. It's like twelve languages in one if you really want to be sophisticated with it. but Uh, I don't know if they do it in u UK, but in, uh South Africa, they have now, then they have now now Just like in certain places in in Latin America, they have like Aura like now and then they have Aurita. L Aura is kind of like now when you get around to it, R right or when I get around to it. And then like Audita is like Hey assle. Now actually actually made it now. What what do you think's the latest nationality on the planet Brazil the latest If you were to I'm going to organize a dinner with somebody and I can pick bunch of different nationalities, which one's going to arrive on average last. It like've got like the Olympics, but in reverse.ave Have you ever heard of Indian standard time? I even's actually because it's one hour later than it's actually supposed to start.. So it turns out a long time ago, people would go to the movies Yeah and you know, the movie doesn't start on time, which is absolutely hilarious. Everybody just expects. And then the whole term Indian standard time came about, which is absolutely hilarious, but it's typically referred to as one hour past something is after the actual time. So I've heard Brazilians refer to Brazilian time also. Oh what is the least punctual It's anywhere that's got good I think You can talk about culture and people and stuff like that. but what's more interesting is to just talk about what is the lifestyle of that particular ecosystem. So if you're going to go fain Italy, you know, Portugal, they're just you've got wonderful weather, late nights throughout the summer. everyone's smoking having a red wine. You've been a Palmmer Maorker or wherever, and you see people outside sat on wrought iron chairs having a pre dinner cigarette at ten thirty PM at night These are old people. They're not going out, oh, this isn't the beginning of them going out to go and party and head to the club afterward. They're not going STK for a, you know, nighttime party brunch. So I would say maybe some of the Mediterranean places like that. guuess as I think further afield, I don't know much about India, but perhaps Nerv is neeither do I, but it is genealogically you do. you know a lot about D Mark. I'm like, Oh I don't. I wonder this is really hippie crack shit But this is what we're here for now. now again Now we get that. I wonder it's like that Sfia wal hypotheses of how much L me. That''tound friend'll. The idea is that it's the Wittgenstein quote of like the limits of my world are the limits of my language. And we think that we shape language, but language shapes us and it feels immediately like so trivial, so Eesoteric to have the conversation. everyverybody kind of dismisses languages It's almost like neuralinguistic programming that we should't take it seriously How much the words that we use? So I wonder, obviously England, Australia, America, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa share this English ancestry. But how much then that they have the same language keeps the culture Similar as well versus if you fork the language do you change? I don't know, man. If you go and meet a South Africaan and compare them to a Scottish person, they're quite different. true. bothoth angry. Both very angry. There you go. And we had this at my birthday in the middle of nowhere. I didn't realize the spectrum exists when it comes to how people think as well. So we had my friend Billy and my friend Kareon Billy can't think visually at all. So he can only think in words. Yes. Cameron can't think in words at all. She can only think visually I there's a test that you can do like imagine an apple in your mind. What level of detail can you see the apple at? Would you pull that up, Jared, the Apple visual test lack of it. I think it's called Aphantasia. Yes. Yeah a fantation. How do you guys think? Do you can do you sing more in words? Do you think more in vision? Imagine an apple in your mind What level of detail can you see the apple with You know when growing up there was like this whole people with like very the visual memories or whatever, they would just like look at something and then effectively recite I fifty word. Ietic is what people think of is photographic. Yeah. The photographic done Billy, for example, would be number five Yeah. Yeah, he could he would just think the word atle. Yeah. Fascinating And then the Cameron could see the apple, but if you asked her to create to see the word apple in her mind, she couldn't do it at all. I asked her, how does she count in her head? And she said it's stairs She t visualizes how than Im. I mean, I would I'm about ten out that direction. Wow Really hyper visual memory. Like I can remember almost every floor plan of every restaurant I've ever been in like I mean, I'm not I'm not trying to store that. So I ten ten where we went for dinner the other evening. C you remember the table Yeah What was on the table I don't remember the name the number of the table, but it's like the server door was directly to our left. right? We were effectively the last booth at the edge. the bar was to my right, near us to my left here You were here sort of at my like two o'clock So We ordered way too much damame. No then wewed the right amount of demamee whichich is too much damame. It's just the only amount of edamame at the. It depends on how many gallons of oil you like when you're atam. It's true. I think salted edamame, when you start to try and spice up pedamame too much, ruins it But here's what I would say just to quickly put something to this. dont want people to feel badly if they can't go out a few standard deviations towards like the hyper like hypernesia, right? the opposite of amnesia because All right When you have my dad has this as well really exaggerated development of certain types of memory, it can make it really hard to let go of grievances. Wow, slights against you email that you sent that ended up whatever it is, right? Like you'll there' there is an advantage There are some tremendous advantages to forgetting And so when you when you're not as selective, You could argue it's almost counter evvolutionary past a certain point to have an overly developed memory, I would say. Yeah, I think I I can recall One of the things that I was talking to somebody about was that have vivid face recognition, like almost like face ID type situation. And I can remember faces that I've seen only One time fifteen years ago The Prom is this becomes socially awkward oftentimes Youet some a massive asymmetry. Right. And you're like, I know everything about you because we' met once and this was ten years ago But you can't really bring that up. Okay, A you freaked? Yeah, it's like it's very creepy. You sound like a stalker. exxactly. But I did not research them. simimilarly with quotes and visuals. I think I personally have a very very vivid like visual element and I can probably look at something once and then ten years later if you quiz me I would probably get about ninety percent of that crary That's wild. Do you want to tell the story? the forgetting part is crazy. Do you want to tell the story about the first elevator we ever got into together Oh my God, yes. I actually I think there was a new appointment of an Xbox CEO and she was like I made a tweet about it. I was like, wait, she doesn't really have any experience with gaming And um Chris and I were an elevor And turns out she was there. Well, you're leaving out one critical footnote. The Tweet was not seen by two people It was it was millions millions of people saw you call out the Xbox CEO We get into was I was just simply remarking about culture in the way that like people frame this because like that's a unique development. But I put my foot in it. I put my foot in it. Yeah. That was hilarious. I'm trying to bigig up my friend. He recognizes the Xbox C and goes, hey You're the CEO of Xbox, who's some unassuming lady dressed real nice, had maybe a partner or security or something with her I'm like you identify correctly and she sort of sheepishly is like, Yeah, yeah I am. that's me. And I think you int She was very nervous about it. A little. Yeahes, she was sheepish about it, which was quite. She was the actual CEO. I was like, wait, that person's usually just like so into it or whatever. And I said, well you should signal on X, you must he's a fantastic writer detecting all the rest of this stuff There is a one hundred percent chance that she saw your tweet and immediately, as soon as I said that the fucking atmosphere in the elevator went frosty It was look, nothing against her personally, but tried to do something nice for her was came back to bite you. No, and that has happened multiple times. I think going back to Tim's point about the forgetting part, I think about this lot which is What a great feature of the mind in some sense, like the forgetting part. like I think about AI memory You know, today it's so easy to build tell AI to extract some fact and try to remember it and we store it somewhere and then you basically use it for some other things It's very common people are doing it How do you forget?? How does like an AI forget memory things? Like what there's no prrouning Yeah, and the like of saliens. how do you think about the world with respect to building sort of artificial memory constraints, just like the human mind. And the forgetting part is such an essential element. Like that is no longer relevant or that is not important at the moment AI systems don't really know that. And so when you pass in a bunch of these memories into context, which is what a lot of these companies do It turns out you get a lot of noise. And it tries to make these connections. That's what its Well if people want a real exaggerated case of not forgetting, there's an old book called The Mind of an Nemonist, like Mnemonic device, The mind of an Nemist by AJ Luria, which is effectively an extended case study of someone who never forgets And there are other ways to look at it. I think there's a doc called Brainman about Daniel Dennett. I think I'm getting that right And the atheist No you know what? The Denet, I might be mixing it up with the philosopher who passed away, but it's something very close to that. P people can look up Brayman. I talked George yesterday about Svant syyndrome You know what this is. So there was a famous case of a guy called Thomas McHugh, British guy. So in his early years, he was in youth prison was a bit of a disrupor, kind of a hooligan type guy And he's in his fifties, early fifties and on the bathroom He shits himself so aggressively that he causes an anu like a blood explosion in his brain And then as he's on the floor He's terrified that someone's going to find him with his pants around his ankles, so he tries to pull his pants up and causes another one to go off completely like pops both sides of his brain, wakes up in the hospital a few days later and tons into a obsessive painter who can only speak in rhyme and paints between three or six or nine paintings at any one time. paints for nineteen hours a day bear to think about suffering, so it sort of sweeped the steps in front of him as he was like some Buddhist guy just had a total come to art moment But yeah, shat himself so aggressively that he had acquired Svant syndrome I think if you're a great athlete, for example otta you gott to learn how to forget You guys know about Yips like in baseball and other places? So it turns out, you know, doesn' something up It's like Typically, you know, you make an error or you do something egregiously wrong in sports Everybody's watching And then you sort of have this phantom reaction or whatever, and then that continuously happens. And Yips is is like somebody throwing that ball and you know, there's some famous players that have dealt with this problem. And turns out You know, you got to forget. Got for that's like a conditioned hesitancy or flinch or Finch getting in your own involuntary potential reaction button. quite sure how it relates to, you know the memory aspect of it, but ultimately When you're when you're a great athlete You watch a game tape afterwards, you're like, okay, I process it and then you have to discard that You learn from it and you move on. Do you guys see the Mark Andreason stuff about R maxing. returnard maxing. Component wise ask I asked Han How many times that word is Hubberman if he's personally threatened by the retard maxing movement what do you say? I think he is. I he partially hisis entire career has been built on anti retard maxing And there's a lot of these people who have like You know, they they have a set of context I don't know why I referred everything like this, but and then they sort of keep it around. But it's super valuable to discard some of that stuff because ultimately None of that really matters. I think Sam Harris all this stuff No, go, go go. No, I think it it was just really interesting. The present matters the most People tend to focus on the future a lot more anxiety, the worries or whatever And then they marry that with the past. And I think this is this is one of the things I personally am like How do I live in the moment Think about what matters and focus on a few things imag from my experience. Exactly, but you learn from it, but you don't dwell on it You don't ruminate on it. You don't I think people had to I had to move neighborhoods from a breakup Because every time I walked around I can v I could vividly feel the moments that occurred in that place from coffee shop to I don't know, like flower shop. a dog rest a dog that you regularly see. I walk in a restaurant and I'm like I sat there person was next to me I knew exactly what we talked about. I knew exactly how that moment ended I could replay that every single time I took another step. Dude, one of the best stories I've heard about this is from Alande Boton and he's describing being in Paris and it's a Ely summer day, beautiful weather outside, a little cloudy, little bit of sun. And it's sort of late afternoon. classic European fashion. this French couple has sat around a small table, wrought iron chairs and they've got a couple of espresos and they're just so deeply in love Young couples that of maybe mid twenties, something like that He's got this line, he says look at them and realized that this beautiful memory would be one of the greatest sources of pain to one of these people if the relationship ever ended It's strange that this thing that at the time is really, really wonderful actually becomes the thing that's kind of the I'm never going to Paris again. I'm fucking moving to Rome or whatever it is because I need to totally change my context. And that's also the same when it comes to phones, right? I tried to stop using my phone and this still kind of works. I just changed the pocket that I put it in Because I realized that for an entire decade I'd had my phone in my right pocket and like a speed shooter withdrawing his firearm, I would just mindlessly put my hand in my pocket, the number of times that I pulled my wallet out. When I changed it to look at my wallet. It's just habituous. It's just this obsessive sort of routine. Do You guys know about this phhantom vibrations So turns out people have their phone on their pocket, right? And I went to a meditation wood tree And um No phones. meditation And I felt vibrations I didn't even have my phone in my pocket. Do you have a vibrator Two of them. there we go. That might have been myilda. But no L we don't call that meditation retreat where I'm fair enough. What is body bllue col? Yeah true. Tuesday It was really interesting. and turns out I Googled it, it turns out that's actually a real thing. People feel phantom vibrations from their phone. You can go check it out. I was like, wow, your body' so tuned over Every time you get a notification, every time you get whatever, and most people have their phone on silent now, so it the vibrations really like A thing with the happy Havalovianly programmed yourself. pretty much to expect this thing. So like this this sort of device is now potential part of your the way that you sort of feel and understand the world, in this case, kind of like a touch type sense. but It was remarkable. and I went down the rabbit hole and I looked at it and I was like, wow, this is not just me. Yeah. There's so many individuals Like you said, if if I move my phone in my the other pocket, the other one will completely vibrate. Yeah. Hold my wallet's going to be vibrating. Yeah exactly. I mean, for some people, that might be a againow. Before we continue, most people in their thirties are still tryining hard. that protein is dialed in. 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Best of all, there is a thirty day money back guarantee plus free shipping in the US and they ship internationally. And right now you can get up to twenty percent off by going to the link in the description below or heading to timeline dot com d slash modern wisdom and using the code modernisdom a check out. that's timeline d. com slash modern wisdom. and modern wisdom, a check out Play him Play Devil's advocate on the whole ability to remember everything being a bad idea. I think a lot of these conversations rather than a light switch, it's more d dimmer and different people, different occasions it will be good and bad for. Be a lot of people look at us being able to remember everything now very similar to when writing came along. So before writing, we couldn't store any information down. So that completely changed us I always think of Do you guys know U I've forgotten the name of Grerenfel Tower in the UK. haveave you heard about what Grerenfel Tower is. So' it's kind of It's one of the biggest tragedies that's ever happened in the UK where a council estate, which will be the equivalent of your projects whooly designs set on fire. Can you get a photo of it up? Loads of Ja Graren Fellt toower. looads of people burned alive in it. and it was a huge like government inquiry. how are we going to fix it? What were going to change about it And what was the crazy thing about the day was that as this building was on fire, kind of like nine and eleven baby was picked up on the news. dropped from the top floor. Look at that So a baby was picked up from the top floor and dropped and somebody caught it. And it was this kind of miracle in this like horrific day that happened. reported everywhere there was about five different eyeewitnesses sixix months later after the emotion of the event settled down A few physicists started Looking at it on going Well, hold on That baby at hundreds of feet in the air. if we just ran the map here, it would just disintegrate on the catch And as soon as they started to inquire at the eyewitness testimony, it was a completely hallucinated memory So on the one hand, the ability to store memories will mean that we can't let go of certain things. but it may also mean that we'd let go. of complete fictions that we're telling ourselves that never happened. or that we would invent them as well. Right? Because if your're Tim, your recollection of the flames is you know, in four K, but the mirage of a baby being thrown out. You know the terminal velocity of a cat is non fatal What do you mean can't say any other way That's there's only one. If I drop a cat from any distance Yes. It's the speed that it reaches when it hits the ground It exactly this on average is non fatal. So doesn't I'm gonna'm surely I'm gonna just raise an eyebrow. Ask Chat GPT, a cat's terminal velocity depend on its size body position. yeah, whatever. Estimated terminal velocity is about sixty miles an hour Some studies and veterinan analysis place it between Okay, so see, look, see, depends on posture. So if you go c around five to seven stories. Yeah. okay. I mean that's higher up than I would expect. Some cats survive because they reach termmal velocity, stop accelerating, relax, and then orient themselves for impact. look'm it's trying to caveat like basically, am I okay to throw a cat out of a window? That's whatat thinks I'm doing. Now this is one of those cases when somebody's like, you know, when people die, they release DMT from their brands and And I'm like How would you know that though? Like who Which families consented to have some signcience to be like, I know this is a hard moment, but let me like tap your grandma's brain. And this is like totaly of a catsing, injuries often increase up to around five to seven stories. Like I just want be on seven stories. We in like Sierra Leone. they're like, okay, let's take these forty cats and drop them and just put it into one of those t shirts five, ten, fifty t shirt fireers that they s Yeahah a t shirt cananon that they've got. Speaking of hallucining, I just want to fact check myself. Daniel powerlessly close.. What would you bring to the hallucinating is a fascinating subject. so people talk about AI hallucinating' in my m. sorry, sorry, hold on. this is we're still going. The highest reliably documented fall survived by a cat is generally believed to be thirty two stories. Sabrina in New York City, nineteen eighty seven, she fell from the thirty second floor of a skyscraper, survived to a chippp tooth, collapsed lung and minor chest injuries. After treatment, she reportedly recovered fully. re telling you a termal velocity of a cat unfatal. They're able to sl slow themselves down, right? effffectively Like a parachute Inh. I mean, they're noting squirrels. Wow. This is remarkable. What did I get you with the other day? It was when we were talking about the fact that if a man doesn't have a girlfriend, the way that he behaves between seven PM and eleven PM at night can only be destructive. And I told a friend about this and unless there's the internet Well, even with the internet, it's still destructive.ight? Because youre embedding b habits and doom scrolling and it's all self destructive, I suppose. However last for I asked a friend about this and he said, yeah, so my buddy was single and I'm in a relationship. And apparently at like eight thirty PM at night, he would just receive photos of his friend head standing just like selfie sufficing headst. What could go wrong? Yeah. Yeah All right Na, have you broke? C on, me the hallucination thing is really fascinating. People have this debate on AI hallucinations and there's a bunch of these topics that are written Andre Keroff, hass written a bunch of this stuff. T turnurns out, you know, humans hallucinate as well. Almost all the features of AI today that exist They exist as humans in some way, shape or form, and people are often Really baffled by it, right? They hate the hallucinations. I think I think of them as more of like just a replication of the human mind and how it works and turns out People hallucinate memories all the time, People manipulate memories. In fact, if you look at things in the past, you're effectively removing You remember often fond memories or really painful stuff. The middle kind of fades away offttentimes. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this Tim about like, I think about this a lot because for our product, we have to like Make sure these things are low and context is there. Don't explain what you do. We're building kind of You know, today, the iPhone is kind of a When you look at it, when you go for a glance, people always tap on apps and then you have to go and poll whatever you need to know. Um we're kind of golding a layer on devices that is kind of glanceable information directly on your home screen entirely processed by AI what you might want to know R now. or things might be important to you And The idea of intelligence today as it exists, it's much more I'm going to go As it a question. create this giant prompt, do all this stuff and You know, basically you have to do the heavy lifting where we try to do the heavy lifting for you by making that presentation layer directly on your home screen that sort of understands what's happening already in the background and surfaces it when you need to know it. So it's kind of an agentic home screen for your iPone. Turns out, the iPhone home screen hasn't changed in twenty years You're roughly using the same device, the same thing.s, I guess. Yeah, and it's kind of they're under utilized. I think we use them in a creative way.. And and so like, you know, we're not going to go. we're like people, three people. So we can't really build a device, we can't really invest hard core. So we have to operate in the application layer and utilize all the things that are affordances that the OS exposes to us as developers. So u Creatively, we sort of Um build this experience and we work few weeks old. pretty awesome but it's been so much fun to be able to think about the way that ambient AI will really work Imagine you go into a room There's a screen Presence detection knows who you are what you might want to see or know or do. if you wake up in the morning These are the things that will kind of light up over time. And so like this stuff might be in your life persistently If you want to, with your permission. Have you thought about what to call it? It feels like sort of context dependent. AI is good. Ambiian AI you love. Jeordy as well. AI. Ambian AI. We need to. But I think I don't know if the terminology's there. you know, it turns out all the terminology that exists in the past, right, you know, the hashtags of Twitter and whatnot are invented by their users. And people were like, oh, we should call that. Bottom up not top down. Yeah, exactly. We're still waiting for a fucking name for this series on the podcast. Do you think the future user interfaces the glasses that everybody predicts I was thinking the other day as somebody who has zero experience in designing hardware or products. that the I think the future is probably the airPod case where you put AirPods in and I heard I saw a tweet the other day that Apple just patented cameras at the edge of the AirPods. so it could feasibly pick up the visual information here And then with this little box that you have could you could be speaking to this device. you could even have like a little would be youral receiver, right? Yeah. Yeah, so we're not always on these screens. We just had the little airpod case ears in in the box here. One of the problems you have with the hardware is that you need some processing power that's outside of it. That was the hardcore I mean you had an Apple Vision Pro before you sent it back. Yes Um and you need If you're going to have something on your face or something that's a wearable, you need to think about ergonomics and weight And that means you need to send the processing off to a a different location. I don't know. I mean, you're right that The VR's really not delivered, I think. there's always it's going to the next thing. We're going to wait for the more, It be comfortable the slim line down what about there You think? U until what? What would be a good why notite turing tests not. So like example, but the sort of level of penetration that we've seen with now we're talking. with AI or with like pick any sort of normal device, but AI. a podcast. Yeah, depth of penetration. N new series, very shallow. veryer shallow Why' there? Like that. I don't know, like a half a billion or a billion users of either one product or a category of products that something to do that type of mass adoption is a high bar. But I would say getting to the point where people actually enjoy, let's just call it Thousands of people spending hours a day using some type of lightweight VR AI, strongly AI native system Three years? Mbe less. I've seen some shit that's made by Ma that blew my fucking mind. It's their next after the next U set of glasses And that was absolutely wild to be able to see that it's still they're still clunky and dorky, right? but they' over the time that they're building this out to get it down to the form factor that you need. But I mean these things, wherever those things are like They're really good. The best thing about those is not an ad Best thing about those is the fact that you can take a photo or a video without using a phone. You know, there was that famous video, was it? the Chandelise on New Year's Eve, maybe twenty twenty three And I swear it's just this street of people all you can see. the entire thing is just phone screens from behind R lookingking at the thing you're supposed to be looking at just phone screens.ul I would have you heard about me at the Louvre, I told you this story Um So I had these on at the Louvre in Paris being a sophisticated individual that I am these on and everybody was just looking at people's feet under the under the bathroom stalls. Yeah. George collect bathroom. George collects feet fick. So that's u you can you can you can buy them u no it's no longer perm. You can't really have eye contact with people in the Western culture because it's like whatever, so people are always looking down on their feet. And that's why that's that's why George comes in. hereere it is So I had this experience at the Mona Lisa in the Loup, so everybody was there with their phones taking a photo, but I had these glasses on. But the problem is because the Mona Lisa is so small and I'm so far back. My girlfriend now has a photo with me, so there's loads of people taking a photo of the Mona Lisa, and then there's me with my glasses in the air. I'll get the photo It's hrific. It's horrific It is nice though, to be able to record something without taking yourself out of the moment And I think just that Yes, you know Oh I don't like the battery life or this thing or they're still a little bit clunkier. I don't usually wear glasses or whatever. likeike I get it, I get it, I get it. But the opportunity to be able to just take a photo or a video without having to feel like oh, I'm back on this screen that I hate I'm back in this digital environment that kind of just compresses my memory down into one time of me being on this screen Most people don't realize how much being dehydrated impacts their performance, which is why for the last five years, I've started pretty much every morning with Element. Element is a tasty electrolyte drink mix with everything that you need and nothing that you don't. This orange salt in a cold glass of water is like a Seet. It's salty, orangey nectar and I really tell the difference when I take it versus when I don't. It plays a critical role in reducing muscle cramps and fatigue, helps to optimize brain health and regulate your appetite while also curbing cravings. Best of all, there have no questions ask reffund policy with an unlimited duration, so you can buy it and try it for as long as you want and if you don't like it for any reason, I'll just give you your money back Plus, they offer free shipping in the US. Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase By going through to the link in the description below. or' heading to drinklmNT. com slash modern wisdom. That's drinklmNT. com Flash. W wisdom Do you think you would feel better or worse after six months of not being able to take photos or video of anything? other than like, okay, you need to take a photo. It' be very difficult to a ph this card or a scan for Business purpose is fine. For me, taking photos doesn't get in the way of my life anywhere near as much as just the ambient, pinging and navigating of the digital device itself.. The photos In and out. I have seen some marathon photo sessions being taken at sunset. I went to Uh somewhere on the Long Island. I can't quite remember where I There was a beautiful sunset happening over a lake. fififteen, sixteen, seventeen year old skirull group It was like It was an endurance sport of photo taking Okaykay, that's something else. Like that's kind of almost pathological But for me, it's, I don't know. what about you? Do you think it would make a marked difference to your life if you couldn't take photos or videos for six months I think it is a useful thought exercise. I would suspect it be better. I mean, I have not had any says the photographic memory. Yeah ye yeah Sam I can train people to have better visual memorory C we do it What was that? Can It's not like a Now Pl. It's not like an a host Pman like sixty second bang. you know, it's not one of those. What's the like what's the Pareredo like basics to get better at a visual memory producing. So I would have people get a book like Drawing with the right side of the brain, which is a bit of a misnomer in the way that it lateralizes things you know, hemispherically, but If you practice, for instance, this is one tool on the toolkit,? Practice drawing. And for instance, right? if I had a flower in a vase on this table, which would be not the most compelling way to get someone to draw, but we were all practing drawing What you would notice with most people is that they look at the flower, they go down to draw it And they start drawing their mental concept of a flower. They're not actually referring to the thing in front of them And then there are different tricks you could use. for instance, if even right now as we sit in Austin, Texas, bright outside could have you Look at a tree or a bush around here, sit down and I be like, okay, draw that, but I want you to only start with the black parts and you'd be like, but it's a bright day. it's a green thing. I'm like lookook again and you'd be like, oh shit There are actually black parts. Okay, we'll start with that And as you start to do that Or depending on where you are, it's like, When most people walk through, say, I mean, in Austin, it's easy because it's like, Cedar tree, June Parash, oak, like that's it. I mean, I'm being a little facetious, but there's not as much tree diversity as in other places All you see is quote unquote, trees. It's like, okay, well, let me just teach you It's also subject dependent, right Like the six most common trees in upstate New York, Austin, wherever it might be. and all of a sudden, instead of just seeing trees, you start to differentiate, right? So All of those. It's partially visual acuity pend It's partially attentionally dependent so that you're referencing something as opposed to referring to your concept of tree table, person, whatever it might be. And then there's kind of a label How fine tuned or find sliced is your. ability within a given domain So if you were doing like live gesture drawing, which I think is a great way to practice drawing, and there are a number of places around Austin and a lot of places where you can do live gesture dwing, you'd have, you know a model in front of the room. It's not always going to be a hot naked chick. I hate to break it to you guys. Sometimes it's gonna be like obese naked dude. But that's fine. And they would start with, say, five minute poses or they might start with like one minute poses. tyypically they'd start with like very short poses So you can't over analyze or intellectualize what you are doing. You have to keep your hand moving And then they would go to longer and longer poses and you'd be shocked. how much your visual memory improves. If you do that end You are not constantly self interrupting So for me, I mean, I don't have any social media on this phone. I haven't for a couple of years. I do not think I've sacrificed one ota of quote unquote, being informed at all Um don't have Vibrate on, do not have ring on, which can produce some funny like death spirals of people trying to like call one another, but neither person has the phone ringing U But I also think you know there's some data to suggest that if people have fewer mirrors in their homes, they are generally self report as being happier. This is a mirror This is the black mirror. So I just I feel like that the less you look at this thing haven't run a study on this, but I would bet healthy chunk of change I just think the less you interact with this, the better, especially given how prevalent fake feeds are It's just like the machine is an illusion most of it. Did you guys see that quote where I think this philosopher I forgot the name, but it was like man was never meant to have a mirror? M seelf reflection like that is detrimental in some ways. She wouldn't have known what we looked like until Jared, can you find out when mirrors were invented. would know with water. You would know with water. Yeah, you would go to the pond, for example and look at your like Achil face. their're nature are narcissist. This is why like if you look at animals they For a variet of reasons, obviously with intelligence, whatever, but they're often very baffled by their presence in the mirror And now we're looking at ourselves more often than ever before. The selfie cameras effectively changed the dynamics of everything. During COVID, there was something called Zoom face. There was a marked increase in people getting cosmetic surgery because they were seeing themselves more because they were spending so manyoney. Now there's's AI filters on Google Meet in Zoom That one sk smoothing for my interview. Exactly. you would add makeup or whatever. Going back to your point about the photographic memory thing, you guys ever repl play that? whichich I don't have to be clear. no. I know people who can do this and then T ten minutes later read it to you. from memory That is photographic memory. I don't have that. You know that game you used to play as a kid when somebody would draw on your back and you would have to figure out what yeah, ye. It was actually a really interesting skill building game because then you would have to effectively imagine different senses coming together. So you feel what somebody's drawing, whether it's a flower or a mountain or a sun or whatever. Always a penis. And if you exactly first always also a good podcast It's always a penis. Backy it was a remarkable. All Rhods leaded to penis, made. I know you like the Roman Empire. f of pis. What's I was just double checking then because about the history of the mirror. Can I say how much I live, how you say double can't even fucking say double. That's. add's like at least seven I. I' from I'm from Rochdaell originally too and whenever you're in the UK, it's a big tourist scene, you'd love it. I'll take you that You love it. You love it. What is that? The mirror. So the mirror Um that We had the crreat of the mirror. But as part of AI coming bigger and bigger, I've been going down like old revolutions so the Industrial Revolution and the Guttingberg printing press revolution So Guttenberg, when he was creating the printing press he was originally trying toate, I think, a mirror machine accidentally or ended up morphing into what became the printing press Wait, what the hell is a mirror machine? So he makes mirrors. Yeah. so here you go So around I don't know how you get from that to the fourteen thirty eight to four grind sand to make mirrors. thirty nine, Gutenberg was in Strasbourg running a partnership to mass produce pilgrim mirrors, small polished metal badges that pilgrims pinn to their hats to catch holy rays, radiating from relics, then carried home to benefit. I like that idea But it's like a capacitor for religious goodwill his capital was running out to appease investors, Guttenberg said he would share a secret with them. art and adventure. research that was the basis for his yet to be Printing press. That's cool. Wow.ice All right, Tim, you must have some heaters. What have you brought from home? Show me something? Yeah, I've got something. This is an article I've got a bunch of stuff, but I'm going to take And a slight left turn. It's related to a lot of the stuff we're talking about, but this caught my attention. It's an article called Riding the Leopard Jucky McCormack And it was it was it was. I had never read anything of his And this was sent to me a few days ago by Uh someomeone adjacent to one of the top AI technologies out there, which is part of what makes it interesting So I'll just I'll read couple of sections here and then I want to get your sense thoughts on things. So what are we to get to talk to room of technology people? This is a transcribe talk that pack you Sierra just raised at fifteen billion do. Anthropic crossed a forty four billionll run rate and launched a new company with some huge funds that have one point five billion to deploy, blub blah, blah blah blah, Op I did the same thing but with four billion, blah blah, this billion that billion All of which raises an important question, Wh gives a shit? I mean that. Why do we care? And then it goes down And he says, last night, a woman who reads my newsletter reached out over sububstackTM She says she'd been diagnosed with stage four cancer. She's now in remission. She'd been confronted with the question we've all been facing, what happens to human purpose when AI removes scarcity or in her case, the need to be productive. To answer it, this is the interesting part. She analyzed more than two hundred sci fi books. accross all of these books, by far the most common thing left to solve for post scarcity is meaning fifty nine percent of books were about the search for meaning. Ididentity was next at seventeen percent And goes on And You know, there' questions. if new technology is so great, why are so many people unhappy If we have means our ancestors couldn't have dreamed of, why is there a meaning crisis? And then it quotes Holocaust survivor Victor Frankl, who wrote The truth is that as the struggle for survival has subsided, the question has emerged sururvival for what Ever more people today have the means to live, but no meaning to live for And ultimately in the piece he ends up talking about he really goes out there. Well, I would bet that dear Packy has done a fair amount of drugs. And that's meant as a compliment, Pack if you hear this. But we get into non duality, we get into differentiation as moral obligation. but I want to explain the the origin of the name of the piece Riding the Leopard and it's from Joseph Joseph Campbell And effectively he's talking about the hero's journey and I'll read two parts and then I'll stop. But the goal of the herero trip down to the jewel point is to find those levels in the psyche that open, open, open and finally open to the mystery of yourself being Buddha consciousness or the Christ That's the journey. It's all about finding That still point in your mind where commitment drops away, the separateness apparent in the world is secondary, beyond that world of opposites is an unseen but experienced unity and identity in us all. All right. Th then this is the the sort of wellspring of the name of the piece You must return with the bliss and integrate it. the return is seeing the radiance everywhere. The goal is to live with godlike composure on the full rush of energy like Dionysus riding the leopard without being torn to pieces. And it goes on. It's worth reading It does get a little squirrely later on, but what I'm curious about is how you guys think about If you do solving for meaning because I tend to skew I wouldn't say dystopian, but hyper vigilant and have a lot of concern for the next five, ten years not just with AI, but with the reaction to AI Right sos it's one thing if if AI quote unquote takes jobs But if everyone fears it is going to take jobs, there are consequences of that in of itself, right But I'm wondering how you guys think about or solve for meaning and I'll just add one more thing, which is U actuallyctually no, I'll save it. I'll park that for maybe injecting a little later, but how do you guys think about it No one thing that comes to mind, this is the weirdest thing, by the way which is I like aviation. and This all going to cack which is You know, um It turns out airplanes crash only because there's multiple systems that go wrong, whatever. And u The reason why that came to mind him was that Ban has a decision to make. when something bad happens, how much do you communicate to the passengers What do you say? Do you do you' like Hey, you know, we've lost hydraulics, we've lost stuff, you know, multiple systems are wrong, whatever completely transparent. you freak people out U Do you not share enough information? peopleeople are like, oh, what's going on? Why is it turbulent How does that marry to AI The people who are building these systems How much should they communicate they think or thingsings that might change about the future, things that might Have a turbulent nature to them And that is a delicate art which is You know, you see Dario going on pods and saying stuff like Software engineering solved Software will be free Um once that happens, you know, you get these ripple effects, whatnot All this stuff happens And there's other people who are like much more optimistic about the world, which is like, hey, you know what E every revolution is created jobs certainly it has eliminated them but we've progressed. And so It's really fascinating. I think this is an interesting environment where people are like How much do you Even as a lot of researchers in San Francisco, for example, really believe that we've solved almost every problem. roughly the dominoes will fall very quickly from me here on out If you have AI, self correcting, self researching They get the AGI How do you use it all personally? How do you think about it maning If you do it, this is not a this is not like a prejudgment either. like what you don't think about meaning? You know, you crash capitalist Iend not to I'm not a planner T much. You know, I think planning is good in some sense, but also kind of detrimental occupies bandwidth that would otherwise be more useful for now I think people tend to live in the future a little bit more than they tend they should. Are you religious? What was that Are any of you religious? No I'd say I'm spiritual, but not necessarily You know, organized religion or whatnot Welcome to Austin. What wasas that? Welcome to Austin You know, I think deield a bit scientology every now and again right? do a bit of scientology. You make it sound like we Yeah, come on Come on. I would do a bit of scientology. Did you guys see what Brian Johnson posted yesterday? It was like prayer. He's talking about prayer and he's like, I've been trying to pray more and I don't know what prayer means and or I don't know what prayer is. If Brian goes full circle and ends up being a moment again, that is gonna be There was a quote tweet exactly like this. He's like turns out the answer to everything is just Jesus Christ honestly dudes. Well. There was a funny comment. I mean, I think Brian that's an interesting one coming from Brian. I would actually would love to talk to him about that more than a lot of the biohacking, given his history. Fran's a Sweten. Right. I mean, there was a I like Brian. was there was a comment though. they said, wait, let me get this straight. Brian left Mormonism. now he's telling us, we can't drink alcohol, we can't drink. I thought that was pretty good. But so what is the And again, I don't want to be labor this, but I actually really want to know from you guys how you Think if you think about it I guess there's two there's a few different parts as I'm saying I know a lot of Uber successful people who can logic and debate their way through the labyrinth of intellectuals around them who have lots of money. who are ready to fucking jump off a cliff. Like that stuff doesn't st. And do you think that that would be stopped if they had more meaning You think the reason that they would jump off a cliff is because of their lack of meaning. I think that that is one large And there's a difference like yes, there's a loneliness epidemic, but solving for loneliness doesn't solve for meaning. So totally This is there's quite a lot of strands I'm going like Yeah, Im Chess is an interesting one, right that AI can be any human being at chess, but human beings still play chess. Magnus Carlson seems to have a very ennjoyable time playing chess Go on o There's an interesting anecdote there that this idea that it's going to take away everything. therefore humans won't have any purpose. yet, it's seemingly better than everybody at chess. yet chess is still popular and people are still doing it. The big thing for me and the question I'm asking is not whether AI will remove meaning. It's more like forget about we could strip AI out of completely. I'm just curious, how you guys think about it if you do I think we've discussed it when I've been in this chair before, but the idea of the precautionary principle So the precautionary principle is Human beings have a very, very, very, very good time at forecasting problems but we have a very, very difficult time at forecasting the solutions that will come because by definition If we had the solution, therefore there'd be no problem but you have all these billions of human beings that end up working on this problem. My inevitable thing is And this is where I feel it's a bit of a straw and argument. If this AI is so intelligent, that's replaced as all it's this super god You'll probably figure out How to get us me You know what I mean? Georges the argument is a little bit logically. George believes that benevolence comes along with people I don't, I wouldn't make that last statement myself. I know some people like the It sort of extremes of techno optimism would say that. But you know, the point that Packy makes in his piece, too, iss like mostost of those arguments tend to at some point land on like, we're going to cure cancer. And it's like, well at this point, like he's like there eight point three roughly billion people on the planet who are not going to die of cancer, at least not in the near term. and a lot of them are miserable. So it's like it doesn't, it might solve for certain biotech and health tech medical problems C let us understand the brain and then figure out why these people are miserable This is what I mean around. I'm not suggesting this is going to be the case. There's just things that we can't even forecast. I mean you wonderful You've done a wonderful Bernie Sanders job of two or three times now not answering the question that I don' personally think about meaning. I've said scientology, but you didn't want to listen it. That's not me. That's him. Yeah. 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So you can try it every single day for three months and if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. Right now, you can get a free AG onene welcome kit that includes a bottle of D three K two, an AG onene flavor sampler and that ninety day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. heading to drinkagy one d. com slash of wisdom How do you how do you guys, um Do you guys think this is an active process in people's minds Like crash. Yeah. Like do people really like thinkink about it in that realm Or is it just a byproduct of existence in some sense? I think it were a natural byproduct of existence. lookook, I would just say, maybe you see this, mayaybe you don't. I mean you guys all interact on the interwebs degree of like apathy and nihilism and forebodating that I think is adjacent or overlapping with a creeping dread of meaninglessness in my audience over the last five years is fucking terrifble. And do you think that AI is contributing to that I think that technology and look, I'm not saying technology is a bad thing. Like ever since we were our ancestors used some stick to fish out you know, termite mound. It's like, I Bet on technology. it's You know, I've lived in the Bay for almost twenty years, still very actively involved with different types of technology, but I do think that there is the equivalent of digital poison and a lot of us are drip feeding it every day. So it's not necessarily AI. I think AI, like money power, alcohol psychedelics is it's an amplifier It's an accelerant. But certainly most people's relationship to technology now is negative I know many people perhaps accept you who have a above eighty percent positive interaction with technology. I was on the treadmil in the gym the other day and I was looking at doing a little bit of boom scrolling on my phone. And I had a screen in front of me here. And then I had five screens here and then another five screens there. And then there's a video wall that's got an advert here I'm like, dude, I'm supposed to be in the gym And I'm trying to listen to a podcast. I'm trying to listen to a funny podcast. It's just a safe space hang. I'm not supposed to beinking and I'm supposed to be tuned into this. And every single different screen had subtitles on. Some of them had adverts on. This one's my six hundred pound life. That one's the news from New York City. this one's and I'm like, dude, I can't it's even I have to actively Avoid screamens Now even if I choose to go screen free, seeah, I think most people's relationship to technologies is Proto negative So when they think about if this gets more that is more of the negative and it's already removed it for me a bit. I had a really interesting conversation with Nick Bostram. so he did his second book, which is kind of like a spiritual sequel to superintelligence, What if thingsings Go Wrong? and then the next one was What if thingsings G go right? What are the problems of a solved world and um You had this really interesting example where he said basically everything that we value in other humans can be refined down to the fact that you need to negotiate with a world that is scarce Why do I like motivation in someone else? Why do I like discipline? Why do I like the ability to tell the truth? Why do I like prudenence? Why do I like good judgment becausecause you need those things to be able to navigate through a world which is going to apply pressure to you And if you remove that, so many of the traits that we look for in other people they may not be that creates a strange Weightlessness with all of the different values that we've teended to prefer all of human history because we've been negotiating with a world that's pushed up against us. And if we move that out of the way, then what does that mean? So yeah, I think dude, I think the meaninglessness thing is great. George is infuriatingly optimistic which means that these conversations with him are always If AI is that smart, why wouldon't it be benevolent enough to fix our problems? That's kind of I guess your I'm not saying if there'd never been the if the transformer had never made the leap to the I guess GPT three or four The sort of social media and digital environments in and of itself, just with more of a linear growth rate as opposed to more exponential still would be a problem, right? It's just over. So like the AI conversation is just it sucks up all the fucking oxygen in the room, do you know what I mean? So it's like We can strip that out as a thought exercise, right? I mean, I'm curious how you would answer it if and I mean, look, this is something I've been thinking about a lot because my audience, but also for me, for like my family and I've thought a lot about ese debates that Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris have had, where Sam Isbama is a fucking car crash Wh well, yeah, I mean, look. they've had car crashes ne of the takeaways for me was like Ken An meaningful critical mass of humans from like first principles develop a moral and value code for themselves that is secular that is in any way gratifying, grounding, supportive in times of great duress. L I feel like Sam would be more on that side of things and then Jordan's like It's not going happen, right? Like that is why people needed religion because you have this out of the box certainty and in a world of u seemingly increasing incomprehensibility right where there is this inability to separate fact from fiction, people need some type of foothold of certainty. And so I mean, I think religion, I mean, I don't have to think it's already happening, but it's like huge resurgence in religion with Latin mass as well, which is Latin mass is one of the if not the mostost ascendant attended. religious services and it's a service that's entirely done in a language that nobody in the audience speaks. And I wonder whether what that's doing is it's almost bypassing people's ability to scrutinize it Well, that's obviously not true. but well you know, I realize maybe they don't want to scrutinize it That's the point. That's why I think that what they're doing is they're purposefully going, o, maybe it's just that it feels more archaic,'s steeped in hist eta, et cera.ay the musics, I don't Um But yeah, I I definitely get the sense that people are going to scrabble around to try and reverse from first principles. How do I make myself feel good? But there is an interesting question, which is What we're bothered about is human flourishing, humans feeling good Wh not have a comforting delusion. Let's say that it's delusion. I'm not saying that it is. Why not have a comforting delusion? Like if the outcomes of religious people are more happiness, more meaning, they live longer, they've got better community, they've got better health,'ve got. Suddenly seems very rational instead of irrational. So this is what I learned from Alex O'Connor, and it is Richard Dawkins speaking to Ine Herali on stage Iyne was supposed to be the fifth horseman of the Atheist apocalypse, but she couldn't make the meeting that day. And then Ine is on stage talking to Richard and the audience is sort of half her fans and half Richards And she said I wanted to take my own life not long ago. I was really low. and Religion found me, Jesus found me, your Christianity found me, God found me And after the lowest moment that I had Um I'm really, really happy to say that my mental health is in a better place. and them religious And you know, you get the sort of smattering of kind of like empathetic applause around the room And Alex told me that Richard's almost immediate response wases, but yes, yes, but do you really think that Jesus moved the stone out of the way on the third day of Arimah? And what you see is a guy who is playing a game of optimizing for rationality whilst ignoring effectiveness. And you go, how can you say that it's anything but a positive when this person's life essentially was saved by this thing. It makes me And this is one of the reasons I think that atheism is not cool at the moment, that it feels in a world that's increasingly bereft of meaning, it feels like really sterile and quite judgmental and quite harsh. And it makes me when I think about it and like It just doesn't seem very nice to me. And I'm aware rememoving comforting delusions, why should you allow someone to indulge in their silly fantasy,. I'm bro I think we're getting toward the stage where comforting delusions are allowed becausecause if not So maybe it is, maybe is Mormonism or. Do you guys u Intellectuals oftentimes get in this territory where they try to use proof by counterxple So try to find one counter example and something that you're saying and then effectively avoid the whole thing That's a very common thing because is what you do in a math setting or anything. And they tend to do that in kind of a religious setting as well. and it's like It's not applicable here. Just because X y x is not true doesn't mean invalidates the rest of it Um and this is why people tend to like, you know, I think Richard Dawkins Religion is a pick and choose kind of buffet, you know, you can go pick and believe in something. He also did say that AI is Sentient to with fllaud Ria. How old's Richard though now? seventies I think as soon as anybody gets over sixty five, you've got to give them a little bit of Leeway, public breathing breathing room yeah. Why Have you been around anybody over sixty five? Richard Dawkins. Yeahah. I was on stage with me, he said that he would consider trying psychedelics. Wh useded to get him to admit to that. That was fun Yeah, What did you guys think of that Yeah Richardawkins play. I. If anybody would go around and figure out if there is sentience associated with AI. mayaybe Richard Dakins might be an okay person to go and figure that out. I don't know. I don't know how much you guys, but I'm curious to get your thoughts on what he discovered or how he discovered it. Oh' way above my pay right. I have no idea. I would need people to define sentience and also like they' whenever we get into sentience consciousness on my Let' lets make before we argue about what God does or doesn't like, let's define God similarly, right? I would just want to make sure I understand those terms. Becauseuse once you get into like, integrated information theory and all this stuff. It's very easy to like get into these weeds and then you're like thirty pages into reading this, and I don't think anyone quite define what They mean by. So I don't know I don't actually know the context. but I certainly have no strong position. S same thing' kind of true with meananing though. know read Baueister's paper on meaning, meaning happiness, that kind of legendary one from twenty ten, I think it is And hey they good hey? I mean, they're very tasty. I don't know. it's l them. have fifteen milligrams of caffeine and some tasty shit. Sorry if I'm completely off here. What? But part of me thinks that ain I hate ex the optimist. I hate to sound like I'm doing an affiate link for the beginning of Infinity, which I am Cllost to the link problems are infinite So even now is a great example. So AI, which is first off, we're having this hypothetical conversation about this hypothetical thing, which I think could happen, but it's completely hypothetical. But assuming that hypothetical trope We first have the problem of, well, if this AI is so smart, why can't it fix this Be those two things seem paradoxic. We need to want to fix it. Yeah, which again, which is a different question, but if it is so smart, why can't it fix it? It's the first point The second point is Even now, are we not having quite a meaningful conversation like about this problem. Is this not an example where This hypothetical AI has solved everything yet it hasn't solved meaning. and we're now constantly talking about how we're going to get more meaning for human. I don't think the problem isnt necessarily that meaning would be impossible to access, but if you make meaning harder to access, you end up with some pretty gnarly outcomes in the same way as it's not impossible to eat healthily but it is harder to not be fat in a calorie dense high processed food environment And if you make it a meaning oasis I me it's sparser to get to meaning U thenen it makes life harder for everybody to find that Can I ask a dumb question? Yeah, Is it how to a too things? I was watching it send a hand there Backs to the back to the factory.. also I talked to this cack. Oh my God, amazing. I want I have another question, which is How do most people or normal people think about meaning Like, how do they define it What is the underlying element I think I mean, the way that, I don't know if I'm normal, probably pretty abnormal, but mean I mean I do think that meaning may be the wrong term to use because you can apply it to defining a term, you could apply it to Was this conversation meaningless or meaningful? Well, yeah, we talked about a bunch of stuff that we is mutually intelligible. So like yeah, sure, by definition is meaningful. But I think we could say purpose like people feeling they have a purpose. right? There is a point to what they're doing or their life in general, right is sort of how I would think. I I just the I mean, that's that's if I had to put in a placeholder, that's what I would put in. Western society always attributes You know, when you go to a party What do you do, Tim? What do you do You know, this is a canonical question that people ask. It's like Oh, what do I do? What do you do? Like What do you do with at a party? What do you do when you' at?,, the cocktail party question? The the cocktail party question. I tend to try to not ask this question anymore, but I used to. It's funny hero on the dark web as. There you go. I mean, that would be a just aodazing Grey H. They're like,, okay, It's better than saying podcasts. But like that is st prettyty similar, actually. That's a job. The attribute of Western society to a certain extent with all the focus on productivity and looking at your calendar and managing your time You know, sort of going from meeting to meeting to meeting and then having a full schedule and organizing, you know, a meet up one month later with your friends and putting it on the calendar It's so like Fascinating because effectively a lot of people treat it as allocating time. And if they allocate time, That's what kind of we're people are trying to do. And oftentimes going back to this, the reason why I asked what you do is A lot of the meaning elements for individuals is tied to Craft Their job, their their sort of livelihood possible to have meaning without resistance? Because I was thinking about the chess example that you're talking about Part of the reason that the game of chess is meaningful is that you're meeting resistance even if the resistance is of another player and not the best player in the world that would be a computer Part of that requires some sort of friction in the system There's very few things that I can think of that are meaningful that are also totally frictionless or just there is no challenge in it. Going back to this Think about relationships. We made access to relationships kind of Less friction than ever. you get a catalog of individuals Browse through findind the next person onto the next created sort of an abundant layer on what was previously Sarce. No. And then you have grinder, which is post abundance. Post abundance. Yeah you go.. Have you guys heard about snuffies? Yeah. No, no, whaties 's new gay An anonymous sex. Okay. How how are they innovating on Grinder? Well,ell us what went wrong. Well this is what I know because I have some friends. What are they serving? What are they serving that the grind up app wasn't? How do you spell that by the way? Is exactly what you. I've got to w end this podcast. Match Group just phones ping I was like a h on. Match Group just put in a one hundred million dollars into the app Um and it's growing like craz. People don't talk about the I used to have this thing that If One of the reasons why it was never discussed in Parliament or never discussed in Congress was Who owns Paornhub? what's the name name of the company Is it M Yeah C Mindy had Whilst the Congress was talking about the monopoly that Google had that meta had, Mind Geek had the most absurd monopoly of the pornography industry, which you'd argue there's a free market solution that only fans came along in G good old fans fixing the market. So ostratising pn. Another example is the dating apps. If you look at who owns all the dating apps I'm pretty sure Match I'm pretty sure they own Match, Tinder, hinge D don't know if they pretty much everything No, no Bumble's public Okay. So Bumble's separate. Raya maybe Rya's separate too.. Match Group owns everything except for Rya and Bumble, R. It's crazy that they're allowed such a monopoly on what is now modern dating and nobody discusses it because it's sort of the market' so difficult to define in some says. These apps are also really struck. There's been a massive downturn on all those Whitne Wolf Hood's been saying recently Bumble is going to have my AI avatar date your AI avatar and then it'll feed that back up. Did you see there was an interview she just did like last week or whatever? And she's like, this is the end of the swipe era. and Bumbleles introducing this sort of g eyed matchmaker or whatever Jared You you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem I don't consider a lot, Chris. Well, you drank an entire case of athletic buroncol last night but they're non alcoholic That's not a problem. Sorry, man. I just kept chugging wait for the regret to creep in. never happened See, most people, like Jared, don't want to change what they drink. They just don't want the next day to be a complete write offff. And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic brewing coat. They make the best NA brews on the planet You can find Athletic Brewing Co' best selling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you or best option, get a full variety pack of four flavors shipped direct to your door. Right now, get fifteen percent off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athletic brerewing dot com slash modern wisdom using the code mododern wisdom. A a check out That's athleticbrewing dot com slash modern wisdom A modern wisd A check out. Nebia terms and conditions apply Athletic brerewing Company, fit for all times. Bottoms up goingoing back to your point, Chrace, which was idea the capitalism removes friction, right? Like the idea is that you have this invisible layer in societies sort of that is that is fixing supply and demand such that there's this equilibrium at all times and turns out that reduces friction because accessibility I mean door dash, you can I can get an Amazon delivery in fifteen, thirty minutes orready. Youve got a fancy dress outfit in less than an hour yesterday. Yeah, becausecauseuse that's what I do on a Sunday. You needed a costume. You needed a costume cor all these new apps It was remvable. I need a furry with a cape and then went straight on a whistler or whatever it's. Yeah, I was I was in I was in like a Carmelon, I didn't have a bathing suit because people were going to the pool or whatever. it was like, oh, I can just doordash it in thirty minutes And some people will bring me a bathing suit because I didn't have aook and that's That's remarkable. And I think going back to this, it's like, yeah, obviously, I think it reduces value of things when the friction goes down. I do think a great example is Winston Churchill. P posted this the other day, Churchill's biography is so good you go, Jesus Christ did this big one. The big I think it's Andrew Roberts Churchill biography. First off, Jared, could you pull that up? How many times Winston Churchill nearly died? He outbeats a cat like the number of I think he almost drowned. He gets what total velocity of Yeah. He gets he gets ran over, but Churchill used to and famously suffer of depression, as he called a blackack dog. He used to plant sorry, he used to lay two hundred bricks per day for a significant period of his life just to keep himself busy. What was he building with this J of bricks? Apparely Apparently he wasn't actually that good to the stories that the players came in afterwards but he would always do Yeah, you can have a look. So here we go, like yeah, battlefield dangers in Cuba, India, Sedan and South Africa Escaped from Yeahah, he was escaped from the bore prison of warar camp. W Frontline combat in World War onene got hit by a cart. Belved he was preserved for a purpose. Yeah. felt he was walking the des. Well Winston Churchill famously said when he was, I believe a teenager I will save Western civilization, whichich is up there with John Dy Rockefeller saying I will become the richest man. ever to exist called their shots But for every churchill, for every Rockefeller there's a thousand massive survewcastle right? All right. So I got in trouble, spepeaking of the UK, I got in trouble for comparing the UK to where it would rank if it was a state. And I thought that this was a relatively innocuous thing to say because me and George have both shit on the UK quite a bit You know, you're allowed to. You're allowed to as immigrants having moved from your own country, you're allowed to sort of cast us spur. Well this is why I left, so to speak. We were the second in the world in millionaire exits not long ago, second only to China who's got, you know like thirty times the population or something. U I decided to post this chart and this chart explains if the UK was a state, where it would rank the l Here it is. If the UK were a US state, where would it rank among fifty states? So life expectancy first, lowest homicide rate, first, lowest gun deaths, first, lowest prisoner population, first, healthcare coverage first, paid maternity leave, a lot of high numbers. Statutory paid holiday first years in education first, lowest road deaths first, lowest drug deaths second minimum wage third, pupil performance fifth, environmental performance fifth Human Development Index ninth, lowest obesity, tenth, and GDP per capita fifty first U what do you attribute that to? Well, I mean, it're fifty first. The fact that it's fifty first, the fact that the US just absolutely rules when it comes to capitalism You guys I mean may. W most countries, I know that the UK is not Europe, you know, Brexit is Brexit. Like would other would countries in Western Europe also look like this in terms of GDP per capita? Probably, right? I would guess so. I mean What People in the internet got mad at me for. is, well, these are stupid things to judge. Obviously, you've got the lowest gun deaths because you cucks gave up your guns the paid maternity leave doesn't matter when this thing, the statutory paid holiday is pointless because level of productivity. The road deaths because you don't have big enough roads or something the drug deaths don't matter because you've got no cool drugs minimum. But it was basically an American excuse for every single one of these. Even the lowest obesity. And I was like It was just surprising to me because for the most part, British people are very prepared to laugh at Britain very prepared to point and we British think.'ve I've done episode. I've done entire episodes on this is what's wrong and this is what's wrong and is what's wrong, and this is what's wrong. But as soon as you begin to compare the U.S to the UK and in some areas because the whole joke here is that there's lots of things that' ranking better than the US N Apart from one of the most important things, which is how much fucking money we make And yeah, they're selective Sink it You can sing it if you want. Sing what? God say our great racious gig. God sa I just got into a lot of shit and I was surprised. I thought that Americans would be able to take this with a bit more humility. I do tend to think the So humility. justit Yeah. But yeah, lowest drug deaths is I mean, like why think America will be lowest obesity at some point very soon with the advent of GLPs and They're going to be someone, I saw this thing the other day that Reda Tueide is going to be one of the most successful drugs in history. for sure that one of the most widely used drugs Scott Gallowway has the idea. He says it's the best America's the best place to earn money and Europe's the best place to spend money while the UK is a wonderful country to be poor in and a horrible country to be rich in. and America is a great country to be rich in and a horrible country to be poooor in. Which is kind of interesting if the The value of the dollar goes up. like American productivity, GP, or whatever goes up Its Americans will go and spend it to Europe, right get the best value for the bang for the bucker if you will. Yeah. I mean, I do think u The UK is the greatest, a country of all time. I do think that's a fact But America's going through its golden age right now just we're living on borrowed time, mate, You you know my position on this. I think that we're living on borrowed time. And this is seen nowhere more clearly than the arrests countries with the most arrests for posting on social media in twenty twenty three United Kingdom, twelve one hundred and eighty three coming in at nearly double second place, which is Belarus. was six thousand two hundred and five And Russia is down with four hundred, China with fifteen hundred There M be some reporting problems in a couple of those countries. But that number, which is from the Times, it was a Tes histry. What a group of Social enforcement isn it returning there to be part of. twelve thousand arrests for posting on social media in twenty twenty three. And that number is from the Times with Freedom House stats. And so that's legit twelve thousand one hundred and eighty three. And that was one of the most common. How many people like where would you rank if it was the number of people that have been? I' also first actually. So ye we have made some mistakes over the years. Alan Suring Yeah. Oscar Wild. Yeah. notot good. We don't treat our gays well. No. we haven't. Alan Car pretty good Allan Cars treated well.. Douglas Murray treated relatively well. Yeah I had this because I find now that every time you bring up something negative about the UK, we're to bring up something positive to counteract it. Like the angel and the deevil or the Northeast and the Northwest which is I was back home in London, Central London And I was walking around beautiful buildings in London end I used to live in a house older than America And some of the architecture that exists in the UK, like New York has some quite the New York City liibrary is beautiful. It feels like you guys have stolen that from us. and even the Statute of Liberties is from Franceance right A lot of the architecture in the US, my friend summarized it great, which is everything looks like the back entrance. to even the front Ls like what would be the back entrance. And I feel as a Brit being in America, like my parents have the most beautiful place in the world and I'm around this mess of a house where the people are just it's a lot more functional right now. But the UK is The architecture is stunning And you don't make buildings like that. We're really grasping at fucking straws though when we're talking about the ar. Big pens good That's the difference between the US and the UK is it feels that everything in the US has or a lot of things in the US, I shall fix. has a functional name. So I was like, why is it called Joshua tree? It's like, Ohh, it's becausecause it has a lot of Joshua trees like you have Temph Street, why is it temp Stet? becausecause it's toin Street and before eleventh Street whereereas bigig Band Nobody really knows why it's called Big Ben. We think it was after sunbow called Ben But it's not actually been into the battle, right? The big big ban is the It's not the actual clock, it's the bell that's inside of it. I think. Have a look. because I remember I went been rabbit hole and I couldn' find it out Yeah. It's remarkable how if you think about it in the grander scheme of things young how young America is Like what is it like a teenager? Mbe less or something with respect to civilization or modern civilization. and, um Turns out everything is kind of Whereas If you were to create a blank slate of a country and now use the best of whatever exists and maybe try toate deb done in a way, that you think about Dubai from an infrastructure standpoint, it's just totally artificial. Yeah. it's absolutely just plowed its way through the desert and said, how do we want to have our roads? How do we want to have our downtown? I know that there's lots of roads accidents that you said, I wasn't aware of this. but if you're driving in Dubai, you can be doing seventy miles an hour And looking at Google Maps, and you're three minutes from your destination, which is in the middle of a built up area. You're just like pounding it and then you peel off on this perfectly modern designed flyover and then you're deposited outside of the fountains at the bottom of the birge or whatever Uh so that's kind of interesting. Whereas if you drive inondon it will take you like tyutes Lond London's okay, I mean once've been to LA, everything feels totally fucking unbelievable Well, I mean, you know, I've chatted about this before, but I'm just increasingly bullish on neurom mododulation, stimulation and there was there was a piece in the New York Times. could at home brain stimulation reduce psychiatry's reliance on SSRIs? And I think part of the framing challenge around And just to define terms here So brain stimulation in this particular case, I believe in that New York Times piece is referring to something called TDCS, where you can basically use I think it's TCS where you can basically use a nine volt battery. It's a headset that you can wear at home and it's intended to treat Pressic disorder. And then you have other types of neuromodulation, and I use that term because you might not be stimulating. You might not be exciting something, you might be inhibiting something. So that would include Uh TMS which I've spent a lot of time with, transcranial magnetic stimulations. you're using magnets with different targets depending on what you're trying to do and I think those are just it's the very very it's the model T of what's coming with with neuromodulation. And I think there's going to be a lot of acceleration in the next two years. I think it's going move a lot faster than people expect. How does it work So for instance, you might have in say, my case, right? So what I figured out took me how life figured out, but a few years ago is that even though I had been diagnosed and diagnosed myself prior to that as someone with some type of depressive disorder. I think that a combination of a few things. Number one was Lyme disease, which is like very much multiple times verified real Lyme disease, not like chronic fatigue, masquerading is Lyme disease from Long Island, which is if you look at the CDC map, the Center for Disease Control, it is like B D is the bullse eye. outbreak pun intended because these sometimes get a rash, looks like a bullseye. but I think that a lot of psychiatric conditions or downstream of acute infections that then led to chronic neuro inlammation. That's taking us a little further aield from the point I was going to make, which is You can use these magnetic pulses in the case of something like accelerated TMS. In my case, I realized that it was actually anxiety and rumination. So a combination, the DSM constantly changes in terms of how you would diagnose these things. Psychiatry is kind of where surgery was like three hundred years ago, I would say.? It's very early days If I do an FMRI, right? So you're getting this imaging of the brain, you identify targets for say anxiety, like anxiosomatic targets. you can inhibit or excite, depending on what you're trying to do, a target with these magnetic pulses. intertermittent Thta bursts is what it's called. And it just feels like tapping on your head. That's it. It's very tolerable And in my case, you might do, for instance, in the latest round of what I've done thing It's a drug. So you take a neuroplasticity agent beforehand and there are a lot of things that can increase neuroplasticity, but in this case it's a someomewhat antiquated, maybe antibiotic called Dyclosareine. So you stick it in your mouth, you let it dissolve for an hour before the stems. and then you're doing three minutes on the hour or maybe even every half hour for ten stimps And that's it. And I got three to four months of going from, say eight or nine out of like generalized anxiety and just OCD rumination to like A zero or a one? wow, D different people I mean, those are two different lived experiences. Yeah And after three or four months, it starts to creep back in. and then you can go get say a booster of some type. And I know people with depression, specifically, there's a lot more data on depression different types So basically similarly got taken from like, I can't move. I'm at home. Some people are cutting and they go from like Again, this I'm not a doctor, I'm not giving medical advice and these are anecdotes. But there are also published studies that people can look into. There's a great scientist named Jonathan Downer, unfortunate name for someone Bingking with someone in depression, but amazing scientist, DOW NAR, peopleople can look him up I things's at the University of Toronto And You see durability in some people, including the son of a friend of mine, eighteen months So instead of three to four months, you get like eighteen months. And so you compare starch to it wonder, it's like, all right, if we look at let's just say SSRIs, which are miraculous for some people the general ical imbalance theory of deression or anxiety is pretty much thoroughly debunked at this point, right? You're not depressed because you have low serotonin levels by and large And when you take pharmaceuticals, I'm sure it's true with GLP Oes. I don't think there's very rarely a biological free lunch, but that aside with psychiatric medications typically have off target effects, right? There're going to be side effects. They could be sexual dysfunction, they could be whatever. They're weight gain, there' a million different options and Often they stop working or people don't need them anymore, and then there's no plan for deerscribing and off ramping these people So they just stay on forever, right? So the idea that you could use electricity is super, super, super interesting. I think I'm hopeful that it will displace a lot of the bllunt instruments approach to using over prescription. We'll see. I mean, it's going to take a lot of tech innovation, which In this case, AI. Team AI is going to accelerate things a lot.' certainly already seeing it. like a personal level What's it like going from did you say a nine to a one Like an eight or nine to a one. What's that like? Ituse like a felt Inomnia? Gone, right? Like inststead of taking thirty to sixty minutes to fall asleep, like lid down and five minutes later I'm asleep without any sleep medication I'm mean that alone is it's impossible to overstate the effect that has on your daily life every day, right uh easier to get over just kind of the scrapes and bruises of life, right littleittle issues. You basically for me, it was like I find it very useful. like if I'm using the toolkit of stoicism or mindfulness or whatever, like it's a fucking struggle, right? It's not native to my constitution After this like, oh wow, suddenly I can meditate for twenty minutes and I feel like I've been doing it for years as opposed to constantly like slapping my monkey mind on the wrist, right? So really tremendous and I I What we will see is that You can also use it. I This is not that controversial but for performance enhancement, right? Like you can Um I believe you can affect like handedness, trait hypnotizability, like you can And it's not risk free, but compared to a lot of the medications that you might get people for in these conditions This profile' pretty good. It's interesting that you can have an intervention that makes other interventions more So if you can do some sort of TMS thing and that makes your trait hypnotizability more That means that you've now opened up the world of hypnotism. Yeah' exactly. So you're choosing the right domino to tip over first, right And I mean, it's not the time to get into a paorn habit then Straight after this. God Godd damn it I just locked this mean it bringsler row Tickler row whenatever it's going Tickler alsoso in the podcast. This podcast is sponsored by T When I sit down for a good wank on pornho with my athletic grow. take a up. Do you want a man to come round in two minutes manan on man. St Life andimes, Chris Uh, it A lot I mean, a lot of what I think about is just sequencing, right? Like there's a lot of stuff out there off the rack that works kind of, right? But if you figure out the right seequence, like you can suddenly thiss truth language acquisition too Like where most of the mistakes are made, I think is in the sequencing. And you just fix the sequencing, you shuffle things a little bit, you put the right domino in front. And it makes a huge difference. And also this is true with It seems like psychelics in the sense that Ggles Dolan, who's at, you know UC Berkeley. She used to be at Hopkins, but her It's a framework of reopening critical windows with use of psychedelics is very interesting. And underground facilitators have known this for a long time, but it's like the two or three weeks after a psychedelic, which in this case would include MDMA, although that's a longer conversation you have the ability and this could extend to say, stroke patients who are trying to releearn motor control or speaking things that is limited to a very short relatively short window as a child, right? You can basically reopen the malleability to develop those things using these drugs in the subsequent two to three weeks For instance, if you've just done a bunch psychelics, may be a very bad time to suddenly do a bunch of overdosing on porn and sort of instilling habits that you would otherwise maybe come and go, but in this case could really stick like your play Doo is has been warmed up in the microwavave. so want to be careful about those two or three weeks afterwards, I think that could also apply to TMS protect. Iaged a two sided SGB at the start of this year. And the same thing is true for that. Okay Kayman, you've got a window here where your nervous system is unusually A absorbent? Yeah. so treated with appropriate care. That was wild though, that SGB that I had. You should explain what that is Stellic Ganglion block. So There is a bundle of nerves on both sid of your neck are essentially running to the rest of your nervous system and you can get an ultrasound guided an aesthetic injection that goes into it and it essentially shakes the etchy sketch of your nervous system It' a way to think about it. It is relatively hard reset and you do one side and then you do another. You can't do them both together because it actually makes half of your face and half of your throat go to sleep. So if you were to do both, I think that you You might die. you certainly wouldn't be able to swallow. You can't do much stuff.s like problematic. You end up one side of your eye is sort of eyelids half closed and speaking is a little bit difficult.way One side one day, one side on the other with Matt Cook ato a biore reset who's kind of the number one in America for this And um It was fascinating, really, really fascinating. do it again I would. Yes. what were the benefits? it was an interesting an interesting slate clean. Of. some nervous system build up. So just agitations,, the sort of ambient buzzing that you often have rumination reduced U It was very interesting, but I think the The thing that's always fascinating to me is because you've got a felt sense of how this thing impacted you And because our felt sense is so subject to did I sleep well? Am I in a good place with this person? Have I got you know, how's business going? What's happening in my life? But when you see in data too, and because I everything with Whoop It was a thirty percent increase in HRV. I was kind ask you about HIV. thirty percent increase in HIV overnight and that held for I mean, I'm what three, four months now after it started to tickle back down now That held for a long time. and resting heart rate also did the same not quite as much. It was basically a thirty percent change in HRV and that stuck about for a while And they do this. It's a one stop shop for PTSD in soldiers. It's really aggressive. intervention for guys that are like super, super, super struggling. It just It just gives you a little bit more room to breathe. I was interested in it and I trust Matt, the guy that did it. So I was like, okay, you mentioned before risks With the TMS type stuff, what are some of the risks generally very low. I mean, I would say that again, not a Not a PhD or doctor, don't play one on the internet. so your homewor to your professionals, but My understanding is that I can give you my personal example occasionally In the case with my target, with my brain After the treatment, you can have what's almost like a rebound exaggeration of symptoms for a short period of time, which is pretty unpleasant. where you might have insomnia for a few days, which I did. I've had that twice And've you've done this twice. No, I've done it probably five or six times. and it' it's not it has not worked one hundred percent of the time, which is very frustrating. It's part of the reason why I'm supporting a nascent brain stimulation lab here at UT Austin, getting involved with a couple of the companies because I want to like I actually know these machines. and I've talked to technicians and I've talked to the scientists. I'm like, I can actually be very, I think helpful here. So I'm hoping to figure out how you can make that much more reliable. It's also just pure self interest, right? I want to be able to use this. And I also want to figure out how to get durability out further, right instead of three to four months. It's like, look, if it's one day every quarter, like It goes from a nine to a one, fantastic. But if only it works one's out of every four shots, then that sucks in a lot of respects. Some of the side effects, the insomnia that I mentioned In very, very rare cases, people will get temporary tinnitus, they'll get like a ringing. these are these are all pretty uncommon And I should say that the using this for genereralized anxiety disorder, OCD, et cet. is very much tip of the spear stuff. So the sample size is not very large. With the depression, there's much more data. And you can go on pubMed or elsewhere, consensus. app is another decent option if you want like an AI interface And look at the published papers. They're right there for you if you are like s smacking down your sympathetic nervous system, o This is the perfect place to talk about this on a large podcast. is after my first effective TMS treatment, the first one that worked not ejaculate for like two weeks and I fucking lost it. You can imagine I'm just like I'm like, is this a good news, bad news situation? Like Yeah, good news. you're not as anxious. Bad news, you're never going to ejaculate again. I was like, what the fucking the doctor was like, Yeahah, we've never seen that before. And I was like, oh, fantastic. But eventually mechanistically, he was like dosing problem where we're basically dial down the volume on your sympathetic nervous system too much because like you're sympathetic to get a erect, sympathetic to come. Yeah, they say point and shoot. Parasympathetic. Yep, sympathic. Damn ye. And I was like Okay, well maybe we try a lower dose, which I think is part of the reason why it didn't work for me because I tri I was like, hey, if that was at the time, that was five days And I was like I really didn't enjoy this two weeks. So let's try. How much should you try? Let's try two days. I'm a big fan of a jaguling You know. Sounds like we're found the time. Yeah, you need to whistl. So I need to get tickler. Tickler Sniffies. Yeah My podcast is accepting sponsors today. So Then I tried two days, nothing, right? Then I tried three days a few months later. increas Nothing. Right. then eventually got back to five days, still nothing. But then went back to adding the deycloserian, this plasticity agent beforehand, one day, boom. And I was like, okay. Now that is when I became much more, it's called the one it's just called one day protocol. And Jonathan Downer who I mentioned is one of the, if not the sort of innovator in the space behind that, along with Don Vaugh and some other people That one day when that worked, I was like, now this is interesting because currently The insurers are slowly coming around All this stuff, a lot of innovation starts with people with money spending way too much money.. That's just the way it is, right? That's true with electric cars, It's true with Uber, it's true with a million different the early generation iPhones, right? And you want to copy and paste, A you fucking kidding me, right These early adopters who have money and they're willing to spend it, like the accelerated TMS protocol, some of the early rounds that I did, it's like all in thirty grand out of pocket. I mean, it's expensive And when it got down to one day, I was like, okay Now it's about reducing sort of unit cost and increasing throughput with these devices. cause putting aside the out of pocket cost A lot of people, they cannot take five days off of work do this. But once you get it to one day, now I'm like, okay, that just went from a very small sort of addressable patient population much larger It's still too expensive let's try to work on getting it down. And that's just TMS, right? You have other things like focused ultrasound that might be interesting for differentiffere types of addiction, for instance where you could actually get enough penetration that you could hit the nucleus accumbens and other anatomical structures associated with chemical dependence. It's like, okay, This is very, very, very interesting. Who's the best company in America for this at the moment I mean, there are a couple of really good ones. The two older ones are that have the most kind of time on the market are brain's way which is u out of Israel, very good machines.. It's a publicly traded company. in full disclosure. I you know, I invested in them when they were a public traded company. MagVenture has a device as well, which I've used And then the company that I'm involved with is called AMPA. and they that is the smallest form factor and the people behind it. Develop the one day protocol and A. I think they're sort of trainability of that device, instead of taking weeks or certainly instead of taking weeks, let's just say to train a technician properly, you can do it in a few hours And it's something that fits in the trunk of a car like a corolla as opposed to being the size of a refrigerator and I think they're really, otherwise it wouldn't be involved, very well positioned to finally scale this treatment to millions of people instead of a hand like a few thousand Um So those like all three of those are on the market And the Lowest cost would certainly be AMPA, but all these devices. AMP E? AMPA, AMPA Health Um, and We'll see. We'll see. I mean, I am I'll be I mean, not just because I'm involved. because it took me a long time. I did a due diligence. I don't think A lot of folks don't realize like how much diligence I do before I put something in my newsletter or whatever it's like I guess this is OCD like hardarest when I am in full throtle. Being used very well. Being friends with you is highly useful in situations like this. In the same way, I went to go and get LasSig in the UK. Ali Abdal, productivity dude,, British guy. is a doctor, right? wasas an MD or the equivalent of an MD GP in in the UK. And I knew that he'd got lasick And I was like No one's done more research about who's the best U obstetrician operator in all of the UK messaged Sally and he's like, Yeahah, I spent three weeks speaking to all of my friends and doing all of the reviews and looking at the particular perect the particular machines as I, okay, who was that Iroduce me and it's funny this is good. I just get to speedrun all of the work that you did. Canary down the mindes. I'm the end of the guy in the human centipede, but I'm benefiting. Yeah You want to be first in line. mean I mean the end, but it gets better progressively as it goes through. Yeah. That's cool man. I'm glad that it's I'm glad it's helped It's it is exciting. I mean, I mean, I thinks I think it's saying something when you know, as somebody who's been so active in funding the science related to psychedelics and psychedelics is to therapy since twenty fifteen In the last three years, I've done almost Almost no psychedelics. It's been purely focused on the neuromodulation. I think it's that important We'll say because a lot for a lot of people Psychedelics are nuclear power for the psyche likeike you just They are not suitable for all people. There are plenty of people I would carve out for exclusion from. Many times you end up with a chinnobyl or a Fukushima Yeah, it's just it's a lot squirrelier. It is you need to be really careful with that stuff. and it has just not being able to come. It has its place. Yeah. Can I zoom in more on this What was that like at the end of a few weeks?is said you went from a nine to one. Did you havear a minus seven? No, no, I didn't. I mean I was five five was I was pretty I was pretty asima. Yeah. was I was u understandably concern Had you have known that it was going to end after two weeks? Pumably you would have just been the fear was this is going to be f. Yeah, ye Yeah. So now you couldn't feel the anxiety No Buting interestingly for like every time it has worked for me, I've had that side effect, but now I know that there's an endpoint so I don't freak out. and it's fine Yeah, you just know that you're going to get a couple of really good weeks where you're kind of like a stallion Babe, I can just, you know Yeah. Don't worry about me. How do you I had a question for you. You know, on the other side of the spectrum, have you seen these devices that simulate your vagus nerve or whatever? Yeah I know I know a lot. Yeah. What are your thoughts on those? Like Most of them were bunk Are they? Yeah. there's a scientist, you might want to have on at some point. He's incredible Named Kevin Tracy. He is the most credible. He wrote a book called The Great Nerve. He's the most credible Please. And not really, u educating scientist, credible, very highly published scientist who talks about this mostost of the non invasive vagus nerve stimulators or that are port to be Vegas Nir stealiers don't don't actually hit it the right way. And they're there's neck based All right, and then there's ear based the neck TBD, but u there are They've been cleared FDA cleared for I think it's either migraines or cluster headaches. someome people seem to benefit I had a friend who tripled his HRV using a neck based device. I think it was either True Vega or it was the prescription equivalent of T Vega And it works really well for him. This can be pretty I haven't used them. I had a friend I was talking to. I suffer from migraines. and So I have to carry around on medication all the time And somebody told me about these things and they were like, o, it has all these benefits of like HRV, you know, increase of HRV, all sorts of stuff. It's a temporary state, if you will, but ultimately You sh it daily. It's like a few minutes in the morning, a few minutes at. Yeah. It's kind of reset the nervous system, that's kind of the marketing terminology that they've been utilizing. Yeah, I mean, really it's What it's doing is it's stimulating the vagus nerve, which is really like two transatlantic cables on either side. It's like a hundred roughly a hundred thousand fibers on either side. And then it it innerovates Every just about organs, GI tract, etcet. And when you stimulate it, you can Um ' the right way to put it. Activate isn't quite right, but something called the inflammatory refleux. And so it can be applied to things like rheumatoid arthritis, different autoimmune disorders. can be applied to something like asthma attacks Very, very, very interesting. Um So It could be worth looking into for you, right? The neck based devices tend to also activate the superficial muscles of the face. holds your face down. It depends how high you turn it up. Yeah, it depends on how you turn it up, but it can be A little uncomfortable, understand. The ear based device. you say you've used No, someomebody recommended me the ear based device. Most of the ear based devices are not actually in the right place. Got it. It needs to be very, very, very precise. It's called the Smba Concha. It's going to be hard to see. It's right here kind of where this fold is. It's at the bottom of that inside like right there. Most of the devices being sold on the market, including devices that have lots of fancy names and lots of fancy institutions on the website not in the right place. Its a very shit ton of money behind some of those companies. Yeah, veryy few fibers make it to the ear. Got I've got a couple of things. I had a few things sent to me. I had one that's a handheld device with the two prong and you can kind of just stick it on like you want to just te yourself. Yeah, like that. And then there's a pair of headphones that have a lug comes down and sits here And obviously that one's way way more convenient But there's some weird stuff like that. You've got to lubricate the end of the adapter because it needs to be able to have quite a smooth surface to be able to so you have to change the again, whistler you have to change the little heads out on this thing and put that in. didn't do it consistently enough to be able to say whether or not it was effective. Yeah. I think for migraines, it's worth looking at. What's migraine manifestation. Do you have aura with it Oh my god, yeah, which one? Um What do you mean? which one? Olfactory, visual? It's visual, visual. And it'll come on and I can I've had these since I' five years old and people were like L what's going on? I didn't even know. And yeah, you get these auras. It's like almost as u You're on like an acid trip And everything just looks blurry bl moving in a weird way. And then and then after a while, if you don't take medication during that period, then it kicks in. Then it kicks in. what do you take Notax Sumit Tpton. as one just kicked in? Yep. fuck We sorry.s no, no, it's all good. It' I don't even know. I I typically track it with it's either lighting. It's environmental, like weather changes weirdly enough. or the last element of it is either I have caffeine or wine without any food Right And it's really fascinating is you know, they ask you to keep a diary of your day and to figure out ret retroactively what caused it. Yep. There's no other mechanic and it's so People don't know why, people don't know for what reason. Some people think it's autoimmune, some people think it's not. And it's a fascinating So I have to carry medication all the time.. And I was recommended this. Yeah. so the prescription version of TueVega, spelled TRU VAGA is called Gammacore. Gota. GAMMA CRA is FDA cleared in the US for both acute treatment of migraine pan and adults and prevention of migraine, episodic and chronic few practical points. the effect evidence is real but modest compared to top tier migraine medications like CGRP inhibitors appears to work best for People who treat attacks early, migraine with aura, patients who want to reduce medication use. those who can't tolerate Tpts and CGRPs Speaking of those devices, by the way, have you guys seen there's some companies that are being now that they're sort of reinvention of input into computers. for example, less keyboards, more voice, more like natural types of interactions with technology and devices in general. There are these devices that are coming out. One of my friends demoed this to me. I think Apple just acquired a company where you just put sort of a small device that listens this sort of region and without you actually saying anything, it can detect Um, as if you were talking Makes sense. Roughly it it's remarkable and u You can imagine a lot of scenarios with this as technology and the input layers become much more natural. much more conversational U And you know, you don't have these affordances to speak all the time where imagine that device can effectively read what you want to say without you ever having to say it And it lives roughly in this region. canan it tackle? Any idea why it sat there to detect is it as if you're moving your mouth, but not talking? I'm not sure. R let me just sidebar real quick. Just because I wantan to make a safety point. We're talking about the relative safety profile of Brain stimulation or neurom modulation with these devices. That does not mean anyone should DIY this stuff. You can the brain the brain on your head. The brain is incredibly sensitive. If you hit the wrong target, you can fuck yourself up or make your symptoms a lot worse. So Do not DIY this, go to a decent clinic for people who want to explore it. I have no stake in any of these Acacia clinic in Sunnyville in California, Salience, which I think is in Dallas. They may have other locations. Owen Muir M U I R who's in New York. There are a couple of clinics that I know have very good reputations, but work with somebody who knows he's No nine volt battery and one of those no pads that people use for their together together I was surped to go home and so much the tator. There's also it's not, I don't think, indicated for migraines I'm pretty sure' specific to RA to rheumatoid arthritis, but Setpoint Medical has and implants Wow about the size of a small omega three It's like an outpatient procedure in the neck. and then it just stimulates like twice a day, the vagus nerve. No way ye That was on the front front. It was on the front cover of the New York Times the day that I interviewed Kevin Tracy, who was involved with the development of that device. ye Wow. And so they implant it directly into your neck How do you recharge it induction. I'm not sure exactly. I mean, it does get light. It does get lights. It's magnetic charge could you imagine. a device that kind of reads your thoughts. One thing you discover is you get more into meditation. is just how Sometimes your thoughts aren't even you. Like the ultimate example, even if you've not experienced any form of meditation would be like a song that's stuck in your head. Yeah. I wonder how the device would differ between a song that's stuck in your head and something that you actually want it to do. because I remember a great meditation technique. just imagining my room andating giing a microphone. Yeah right ear. the distinction being that there's sort of this concept of mind reading and or expression of a thought And the expression of a thought is typically You know, when you when you're starting to speak roughly you would have to It's not purely like a thought reader in some sense. You would have to have an intent associated with it To going back to your previous point on devices though My thesis is that the device that you'll probably wear when you interact with AI or whatever, if you want to has not been invented yet. and it will have this combination of input, output. that is much more Um less visible than. D didn't open ee claim that they were going to have a free product or something and obviously, they've gotohny Ive and the guy that made their the iPhone, the original iPhone and Then they bought his company, which was called IO Yeah, IO and then there was this very cool sexy video of him and Sam in a totally not fake bar some way. haaving a conversation Uh I think it'd be the apppples Yeah, they're actually building a phone Apparently. Okay. They said three different things and one of them is something that no one's ever seen before, which makes maybe a lapel thing, a little button or something like that. The airplort case makes the most amount of sense because we were already using them people wear them twenty four seven. The airports are Was that stat around if the airport was a startup? it'd be like one of the most v eighth in the world. Really? That's why. I remark just just that alone. And half that's me contributing to should we talk about that? Yeah, We've never spoken about this. I've Going back to your three devices thing, I think There's probably one device that is an affordance that's kind of listening and or ask me or You were a ro dog just took a deer like, let's get rid of this free advertising. There's this sort of one device that probably listens to input in some mechanic or tries to process what you want possibly a new way. that could be like a device that's kind to have a microphone or whatnot. There's another device where it's like a her type situation where he's wearing that earpiece and constantly speaking to it. And then maybe that third device is kind of this glanceable world, right where you have this phone Um turnurns out now, you know appations are becoming less, like people are using Chat GPT or Claud for everything, right? Like you go I want to set a timer. You can do that in ChAGPT. You don't necessarily need a dedicated app. Maybe you want one or whatnot The idea of the app ecosystem being less valuable than it was before Given Lon's big on this, right? he thinks that all apps are going to go away and your phone is just going to create whatever you need whenever you need it. Roughly. Exactly. And I think generally today possible to build that type of device without having this ecosystem effect that was necessary in the past. I wonder if that would open up a hole in the market because at the moment the dominance has been Apple pretty tough. Despite the fact that Apple have kind of shit the bed a lot You know, they've all the phones have really started to peter out in terms of the progress, at least from what I noticice as a user like, yeah, I can zoom in fifteen X. I can zoom in twenty X. and at some point, it's like it's a slab of glass and a combination of things like what do you do? Gind a bit the screen's brighter or sharper or something, but it's less noticeable. You remember when it was what? the iPhone five to the iPhone twelve. and each time it was a nototiceable leap forward. almost the same that's been happening with the AI models. you know, that it seems to have started to at least in terms of noticeable total user experience for me, it seems. I think IOS gets worse every time I upgrade The keyboard at the momad just fucking sucks I'm but but they do have an incredible warjust So What do you think I don't know against the guy with a massive pile of money Well I'm just what they can do is they can buy companies. So I'm wondering I don't know. you have any thoughts on who they should buy? You know, there's there's a group of people that think that Apple's like the smartest company because they've let the world sort of play itself out, peoplee spending a lot of money And they're just waiting see where it hits and then effectively do what they do best, which is never enter the market first Yeah, but be the best. Yeah ye. That's exactly what happened to cell phones or smartphones. exxactly what happened to kind of hairPods. There's all these some some wireless do with the iPod too. iPod too. Yeah, the iPod was the first element of, even a computer in some sense. plenty of NP three. So it's like they've saved all of this cost for Capax never spent anything like what forth and split test these products for us, my minions. exactly.'s aon of other compies. ively let Others do the R and D work to a certain extent and then revine that world potentially. you know There's an argument to be made that is a you don't need to be first, you just need to be. They also make what twenty billion per year from Google. For Ggle search for free So Google Ks going up and up and up. So yeah, they're not going to Dabble with touching that, which is we have to what we haven't discussed is how much revenue you contribute to Apple on an annual basis. I think I'm on my A seventeenth airpods A lot because they're because they're a slippery bar of soap. Yeah yeah. No no, it's more I've had a few stolen I don't like having things on me as well. so I'll just like leave things. So like the amount of times I've left them at Dean's But want us a gift to the universe over and over again. And the most frustrating thing is to him you can see where they all are. So there's one in particular right now that's in Cameroon and I can see where his hous is, right? So no, no, I still No because I'm a saddleful man that I'm not willing I'm not willing to fly into Cameroon to confront the man But I am willing to press the play sound button. Oh my Do would at night while they're sleeping. Isn't there a singleir pod that's in the U like WHO building. Yeah, that was that was Katy's airpods that were in the WHO building. Yeah, just one airpod was in the single apod that he was playing this sound through from the WHO building in New York City J just there right now. Oh, he' in Ghana. He's in Ghana. Oh there we go Eight minutes ago. H ever that's that's incredible. But what what a great I mean, I never leave my house without my airPods. This is why I think it's sry user. It's ridiculous such a p sound like a broken record here, but I assume the device is a little little pod thing that we have now, headphones in, cameraas in, but then it's almost you could have like a holographic screen. so people aren't on these glass screens as much and you can makeake it small That feels Inevitable There is rumor that the next airopPods, like you said do have visual the cameras and that that's crazy. If you think about it, you're walking around There's sort of two spatially aware cameras around you. Well it's kind of like what was it Dark Kight Returns or Dark Night Rises when they had the cell phone Oh yeah they they there. Yeah. I mean, what do you think Apple's going to do with that day? I don't understand how they're going to do the whole neeuroalink thing that you mentioned of they will read thoughts because of the fact that some thoughts I have I didn't want to have, It was for me. that there's this meditation technique I once sat in which is a real cool one. So it sounds like you're pretty serious to the meditary? Yes, yeah. it was originally to fight off a skin condition And then it ended a fix that with AI. Yeah, Gemini fixed that. So the story there was Gemini fixed your sniffer. that's N be fixed. AGI is here, man. Sniffer gave me the siffer. Yeah. No I had I had subatomic dumoritis for about two years ago ubatomic? Subboricometer, I Okay I was likeait in my face. My face would break out like ra and I wouldn't wantan to go outside the house. So I spoke to a few different doctors. A lot of them recommended topical steroid creams. A lot of them said it was because of stress, I got deep into meditation. I stopped eating like such a little sugar that I once flagged I once got diagnosed with Tpe one diabetes, which was a complete false diagnosis. whichich is onene is pretty hard is another side story. But I won. then when I was away, I tracked my skin for years and nothing would work, notothing would work So when I was away on holiday, I just uploaded the file to Gemini and it just The file, you mean, a photo. You know all the photos that I have and it just said, oh, just put Nizerll shampoo On your face Oh wow. And it's never it's never was an issue ever said. So it was fungal. Yes. so the biggest the biggest recommendation I would Mraol is key to Conizol for people who are wondering Yeah. This's for Dandruff. And I do it once again. This' for Dandruff It also very effective for topical functallection. I did it once every two weeks now and it's completely fucking crazy. It's completely gone. So any recommendation at home, like a practical thing would be just upload a photo of yourself to Gemini or ChatyPT and just say, hey, based off what you can see with my skin, recommend me moisturizers, recommend me everything, and it' be better than anything dum is what do you use Gemini form versus other models. I' I'm an LLM haore Tim. Yeah. I'm misous. I'm sh. He's like the Andrew Hubberan of LLM Yeah, I'm shifting each time. Oh, but two sorry, I didn't finish the story. So the meditation point there There's a great question, which I ended up learning was Asking your mind what thought's going to come up next And it's like yourour mind gets a bit It's almost this Mexican standoff. the problem with these devices I once asked myself that and my mind went quiet for six seconds. And then for whatever reason, there's this former Bayn Munich winger called Iron Robin. and it's just him checking in on the left foot in my head And it's like That was that me? Why is that there? So if I have a neuralink device, it's an interesting one of, how does it know what was me versus what's just my monkey mind doing strange behaviors? You know I can't wait to see the first failed demos O You know what I mean? L these epic software demo fails. someone gets up and it's just like tw, twot, twotot pecially other sor being, especially given the likelihood of it being Elon to do the first presentation is quite high. A man with a mind that I don't think anybody wants to see broadcast out into public. Did you see that demo of the cybertruck where he was on Sash the window. And he smashed the window wait, that's not supposed to happen Yeah The best film I've watched all year, it's a British film. It's probably one of the best like storytelling examples I've ever heard. So people will know it from the Britz Award. It was this horrific incident where Michael B. Jordan went on stage and somebody shouted the N word out And it was this huge controversial incident, but what actually happened was It was a guy who has one of the most severe form of thresss And he was was subject of a film. He was subject of film. so he was at the Bapts. So the film is called I swear and it's incredible because this guy grew up in Scotland, which is Think about all the stereotypes you have about England The further north you get, the more like harsher it essentially is. Yeah 's why people from Abberdeen are some of the most brutal people on the planet. So this man grew up with extreme touretes in the seventies, eighties, England where nobody knew what the condition was. So the film's amazing because it's just him like walking to the shops going fat And and he's just getting the shit been out of him and he can't explain what it is. So he's constantly getting into fights. There's a scene where he's walking his dog and this is real. So he's walking his dog across the about to go across a busy road they loves this dog There's a car coming and he goes, Whatal forwards now. and then he has to grab the dock. He's torrete. W. He's fighting against himself. Yeah, he's fighting against himself. It's so good. It's such a good film. Where can he see it U if you just search I swwear Fuck you. Fuck you. So I missed it. Fuck you. From living with Chris, the man's a bit of a boomer. Yeah. And I'll often like give him a recommendation and I'll go you'll go, whereere can I see it? And if it's not on Netflix, he can't get it. I no Google Noust That's not fair.s That's not fair and that's not true But my response is, what can I watch it on And I'll just say Google it. Right. But that's a fair I feel like this is a little bit like Here's a fantastic new restaurant. okay, what street it? I just want a little bit more information and the fact that you want me knowing what you know, which is that you might understand what streaming services it's on saying to me. I have to go and Google it. when you could just say it's on Netflix. And me and Tim, this side of the table, we just expect a little bit more decorum. You know what I mean? This why This is why I want AGI to come because it gives me so glady Brany. All right, All right, all right. going back to the photo thing, do you guys know what people are utilizing Chat UBT and whatnot for when they upload photos of themselves Looks maxing Well, that's interesting. Do you know coes? What do they we upload a set of photos. There's these apps on the app store too now that kind of do a rarapper experience, but the idea is that effectively You know you uplo photos to Gemini or Ch GBe and then it suggests things that you might want to do whether it's your cheekbones with this type of medical procedure jaw surgery, having a symmetric face, even things like hairstyle make a huge difference or be or whatever. skip that section. And roughly it's really interesting that people are doing this because Obviously there's just huge graze of looks maxing and whatnot. And Turns out Huge use case for AI. Dude, check out Cos. I've just sent this to you, Jared.Q O Yes.. So look at this. So this is Glow U up withithout surgery. Get your personalized facial analysis and transformation two things on. So I know the science team behind it. The science team behind this are absolutely sick. So look at the guy in the right and then like you should be able to do a transition You see how you can get the middle of the guy's face? You should be able to click on it. Yeah, exactly. So move it all the way to to the right. And you was worried about mean intent And then go to the left. Wow. Got it. So it's like Dve by shooting suspect to soap opera star. Exactly. Get more career opportunities, boost your self confidence, make a stronger first impression, improve your dating life, enhance your quality of life. So basically it's let me see the one on the left again. Go swing it She's really attractive Yeah like That's one of those like Sandra Bullock. Oh, she takes off the glasses and walks out. she goes st Yeah. You're like wait, sheed the supermodel. That's all she did She's shaped her face a bit do it again, Jared So not that. slow it down, go really slow now U R that, slop slop slop You know, this is just IRL Faceetune, right Yeah if you there's like FaceTune has all of the FaceTune I don't do you guys know what FaceTune? I don't. I learned about it from Frey India a couple of weeks ago. One of the M it came out fair a long time ago, Israeli company. and And it's it's just a easy way of manipulating the way that your face looks and you slims your jawline or whatever gives you way. Like as it on a photo, not not actually. So So it turns out every Instagram or before they post anyime people post photos, they typically went through the same workflows. and FacTune was kind of a bunch of tools that you can utilize. And now with AI Holy crap. I mean, the possibilities are quite limitless. and so you know it could regenerate that photo. and so at the bottom, there are all these like AI filters. People use them so, so so much and I heard the story where one of my friends met somebody from Instagram and you know, They had they had all these photos and She looked nothing like her self real life. Let me give you this from Freya when rom Freya? Freya, India is a girl a writer who just released a book called Gls. The Nordic God. She does look a little bit like that blonde hair. She's like What would what's the female kind of the Uber mench Befroying or whatever it's called. Bfone. Yeah. She'se that Lif Yeah She she was telling me that when groups of young girls are out and they're taking photos at a party. everybody fights to be the one whose phone is used to have the photo taken because that means that they're the one that's in charge of the face tuning so that they can work on themselves a little bit more inirely. I know. I know. It' actually it's actually a huge social faux part if you post a picture where you look good and the other person doesn't That stitching that is stitching your mate up a little bit You know, there's a famous English footballer called Ashley Cole. Can you just search Ashley Cole's squad photo And this how long is this ten years? Yeah, was when he was at Roma, so and he's retired. Join us to tell us story was just a squad photo. It's one of those I know it when I see it ideas, I guess But it's just a football photo of the entire Rama team. And Ashy Cole, who's this brrit is like trying to mingle with these Italians. It' an iconic Yeah, top left just awkwardly leaning on the outside. so then he gets memed everywhere. This became one of the biggest memes in the world for a long time it's a team. It looks like this at the headline. Scroll down a little bit Ashley Cole appears to be outcast in an incredibly awkward Roma team picture. The amount of times me and Chris have been out with like a group of guys and I'll do the Ashy Cole Mves off to one side Ruining in. Absolutely ruins it. All right, boys, let's bring this one in the land You all rule. Tim, what have you got coming up? Where should people go to check out your things You can find everything at timim dot blg dot Id say that's probably the easiest. Yeahah. check out the newsletter. it's been done for like ten, twelve, fourteen. God knows how many years. F Fay. What was that one that most recent article about self improvement, What I learned from however many years of self improvement? A yes, yeah, that was it's called the self helpp trarap. what I learned after twenty years of quQote unquote, Yeahah, they' improving myself. That's all s's Yeah that's long forum. That's on the blog. Tental pages. Tam d. blog slash Friday. sign up for the newsletter. A lot of the stuff that we're talking about go back if you want also another reason to check out neuroostimulation, go back and look at the Brainsway stock graph for the last two or three years. U So that type of stuff you learn about before other people. I'm not a registered investment advisor, should blah, blah, blah blah.s money. Yeah U now, I appreciate you guys having me on. ur app is called Sky SKYE and it's a fun little experience. It's kind of a new way to experience your phone It's kind of ironic that're you We talked about that having, you know, we talked about the digital detoks or whatever, but Our goal is to kind of really make using as much as you would otherwise b sururfacing the things that you might care about before S that you don't go into this Doom scrolling world or whatever imagine something that exists there. U It's there when you need it That's gone when you don't and we don't really have anything else. So it's a fun little thing. We couple people And we've got tens of thousands of people on a wait list right now. so we're trying to ffill that inference is very expensive But it's been the time of my life to build this. I guess I love technology so much and I love interfaces and I love thinking about the world with respect to how the future might be in terms of people interacting with the with the with the technology in a meaningful way, not necessarily in a om scrolling sort of this world that we've kind of built. So I don't know where we'll go with that, but it's been it's been an incredible time building. and what a time to be alive. as if're if you're any type of builder today, it is probably one of the most remarkable times I've ever witnessed, I'm baffled every day Um And so it's been so much fun and we're just getting started. So I'm really excited for that. And at signal on X with two L's SIG N ULL, if you wanted to see you call out the Xbox CEO a little bit more. That's pretty hilarious. I wonder if she's gonna to watch this Tickler d. com slashal. Sniffies. Sniffies. Sorry, I need to take that username from that app Yeah Match with me there. My end highagency. com forward slash books. If you want to get a breakdown of all my best books, you've told me to do this. There's gonna be a book breakdown, a list of a load of different books, but the personal one of Oblmov a Russian man from the eighteenth century who the first fifty pages are about him getting out of bed. So there's more resources like that. G my best books and articles. That's it. care. Allright, go. See you next time, everyone Oh, Cheers gentlemen, Y. There we go Yeah, fun