Getting Out of Your Own Way

Joe Sandigaro,lcome the show. That was intense. I just said my name like so British. I love it. Thank you for having me. to pronounce it correctly, okay? Yeah. It's a tough one. People just subread and they say Santiago, and I'm like, all right. Anybody comes to me and they're like, arere you Joe Santiago? I'm like, yeah, sure. Like whatever. Imagine if there's a really famous Joe Santiago somewhere that's like, this guy keeps on taking all of my cred. I assume that that has to be the case, but It's just me plain old white. That's true. Italian Irish. That's true plain and white as you can get. Actually plainer and whiter is British, but that is fair. Yeah. You have one of the biggest podcasts in the world. And You recently sold out Madison Square garden Yeah If you were to draw a Venn diagram Y audience. Yeah my audience, Rreat? How How much How much crossover do we think there is I think it would look like the front of a Jeep, dude. just like just kind of like You know what I mean? I think so. I mean, I think that people are You like that one Dot it with the Jape Uh Yeahah, I don't know that there's that much crossover. I don't know. but I'm sure big place. Yeah. May you know what I think I don't really feel like I actually do have one of the big biggest podcasts in the world. I think that I have a face that because I've been on the internet for so long, that people are like, I fucking I've seen this guy before, but I don't really know what's going on. You know what I mean? Like I think it's kind of like one of those things. But you do have one of the biggest podcasts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that, yeah. You can J brush it away. That was very British ofv you It is really nice. Yeah, yeah, just do the self deprecation. Well, you know, Medicine Square Gardens actually, it's only if Yeah seeee, that doesn't even enter my consciousness that that actually happened. It's kind of a crazy like thing. likeike it's it's like leading up to it, I went to a Noah C concert at MSG beforehand and I'm sitting in the crowd and I'm looking around. I'm like can away, dude I was just thinking about like how many people work here even? Like that's a lot And then we're going to Come on, you got to come to work for me? Yeah, like You telling me that the shop's going to be open or like people are going to be selling Maker's mark out there And I'm gonna to be on stage, Are you kidding me?ike get the fuck out of here But yeah, it happened. It was crazy. And like the little moments too is when It's the craziest because I feel like I have to mentally lock in in those moments in some sort of way and just pretend like This is me, this is my show. I' supposed to be here. Yeah, and it's like a weird feeling, but then as you're walking to the stage There's like a big vinyl like on the wall And and then it says like the basement yard and it says like sold out show and then the date or whatever. And it's like, that was oddly a moment where I'm like, o, fuck, this is happening. L this is crazy. And then you're walking through the hallway and you see the photos of all these famous moments that happened there And I'm like, what is going on, dude? My mom's really good at putting it in perspective for me because she shows up and she's just like What are we doing? Like what is that going on? And that's how I feel. Is that putting it in perspective? It is. it's kind of looks like because you could get lost in in just doing the show and doing the thing and you're kind of like, this is the next show. This is yep, this is cool, but this is another show. but eventually someone's just like, yeah, we're standing in Massive Square Garden right now. I'm like, I know what the fuck's happening? Like's it's crazy, dud And it It honestly is I don't know. it doesn't make sense at all. It almost feels like the support that we have from our family like I don't fucking everyone says this, but like, Truly there is a I feel like I can statistically show that The support that we get from our audience is so high compared to like the viewership You know, blad line religious. It's insane. Like so And which is the madest thing, because's a number of comments on this video that are going to be like, this guy is really funny Who the fuck is he? Right, which is what I want, by the way. Yes. I would like that. And Not like this is a Jose a fucking Santigo is like multiple different versions of my name and they're like, the fuck is this guy's name, dude. Um Dann, are you drinking it in here? What's that? Yeah? Yeah yeah, get everything. No, I'm okay Yeah, I don't even know what the fuck was saying to be honest, what were you talking about? Rabbid fans The the Rbid fans. Yeahah. So one thing that I usually like kind of point to when it comes to that conversation is We have like a top five patreon in the world And they they O viewership doesn't really match that. metric. So should we be top five notot should, but like the fact that we have a top five just goes to show down the numbers. We were able to convert that many people into paying whatever it is every single month to get an extra episode of this podcast, which is like outrageous. And we get so much support from people in that way and then All of I think every single show that we've done outside of like a casino show here and there have all sold out And we also do really well on merch when we go to shows. and it's just because there's a rabid support of people. And one thing that is very interesting that I did not expect whatsoever is people in moments that are big us obviously, like when we did radio City and when we did MSG, the comments that they leave don't really feel like fanatic. It feels like friend or someone that knows you and they're like, I just want to let you know like I'm just so proud of you. And like that just like hits so different. It's like, man, what the I didn't expect that, you know? likeike it really feels like is a you know, sort of a relationship there parasocial thing, but that it truly like feels that way when it comes to that. Yeah. When other people are like, I know your uncle's name. I'm like, right, ill out. Yeah, like don't know that. But Okay, fucking PI. Yeah Wyoming women are having the best sex in America The women of the cowboy state are riding more than just horses. Wyoming women are the most satisfied with their sex lives, according to a newly published report from Bayland, a sex toy boutique with locations in New York City and Seattle. Bayland determined which state's women with the most sexually satisfied through examining a host of different factors, including how often women have sex each week how they rate their sexual experiences, as well as the number of sex shops per state and the reviews For those adult boutiques, Wyoming women with the top It's the stateide pleasure heap followed by New Hampshire, Main, Oregon and Texas. do you think about that? One more time with the with the states h So Wyoming. Yeah New Hampshire. Yeah. Maine. ye Oregon. Texas. Not much to do. in the in the areas like in the areas like out in the woods or whatever, it's like you're probably bored looking at each other. likeike how often probably so desensitized by the mountains and the trees that they're like, I don,h should we just fuck each other then? I don't know. Like what else are you gonna do? Like I go out there and I enjoy nature and I'm like, oh my God, a deer because I live in New York and we see pigeons and run over rats and that's pretty much it. But if I but if I lived out there, then it'd be like I guess we'll just keep fucking each other. you think that the high quality sex is due to boredom Is that crazy Actually probably know It makes sense. I mean, if the states were very different, right likeike p this Texas is a big state. there's a lot of people in Houston and Dallas That is true But there's but there's a What's in I have no idea when New Hampshire even is What is that What is New Hampshire? Yes. It is a state. ye but it is next to Vermont So it's like above New York. Fuck, okay. there is literally nothing to do that. There is yeah, that's like a It's a wasteland basically. I'm not talking sh about actuallyctually Vermont has really good skiing. They have ski towns. Okay. Yeah, ye. there's Killington and Stow So it's nice for that, but What I mean by there's nothing is like it's not like there's like a hub. like no's going on a vacation in Vermont is my point. I've been to Portland, Maine And I made in to Portland too. There was It was very nice, but there wasn't a lot going on. No, it's just, you know, lobsters and weed. They had a stuffed moose at the arrivals in the airport, like a a life size mousse. I'm into that I like stuffed animals, but only if they're like to size. You want a taxidermy thing, but you don't it to be shrunk down? No Yeahah, I think that that's cowardly. Okay, so you're doing a replica moose? No, I would like a full moose to be like on display because you always like hear about moose. But like, have you seen one in like person I've seen videos. I've only seen videos. I've only seen videos. Actually, I did see one, but it was like in the trees and I'm like, I didn't get a good look at it. I can't even remember it right now. We went to Boseman, Montana and did this the longest fucking hike ever And as we came back down, we were going camp that night. The last time I camped it must have been sixteen or something. So I'm like, I'm excited. like this is school. I'm going camping And there's warnings everywhere for bears. So you're really cautioned about the bears. I' one of the gu guys I've got this bear spray, but it doesn't work. I'm like, don't say that. Yeah don't tell me that the thing. anyyway, he's like, what you don't really need to worry about the Adult bears, what you need to worry about is the mums adult males aren't the ones are dangerous to the mums. And as we're pulling in the track, my friend I was with was very nervy about the Bears. But the guys are like, Look, the likelihood of a singer bear is really low. The likelihood of it being in between you and whatever is super low. We're all going to be around a fire in any case, the tents and all the rest of the stuff. as we're pulling in Look over the far side and there is a bear that's about this big, like baby bear Yeah. we're like You're not far from your momum. Yeah, no immmediately he was like, I'm out, I'm not going. But we managed to convince her. But yeah, that was the fucking bears and I also got roped into Beareddom at one point when I was in when I was in u Washington I did a van trip with my friends and we slept in a van for like a week. I took two showers. It was disgusting in there, obviously But it was beautiful. It was one of my favorite shows Ive ever been on I The first hike that we did, we got up at like three thirty in the morning and then did this hike and we had headlamps. And they werere like, Oh, bring a headlamp. and I'm like, yeah, you know, whatever And we're doing this hike and I'm like I' pretty excited, you know, it's the first day, so I'm like, let's go. And then I hear one of my friends go like, who has the bear spray? And I was like, hold on I'm like, why do we need bear spray? It's like, oh, this place has like a lot of bears. I'm like, whyy are we doing this? We're not even like built for this. likeike we're from New York City Like no like, you know, I'm sure there's people who live around there that know what to do in that situation, but like We're spraying We're hoping we're binking on a spray I can't I can't But I mean, we ended up doing I didn't see a bear If I did see a bear though, like I don't know. first of all I'm shitting my pants. I know they can smell that. I like it. I'm leaving a trail. I don't know That's how we track them. I'm I'm sure they're tracking us when people are shoitting their pants like me. There you can smell that. You're telling me that your fear is attracting the bear No the fear is resulting in the shit. My fear Oh, well, yes, I guess that my fear is that withith this inevitable shit in my pants, I will be leaving breadcrumbs back to will be muled by a bear Yeah because of how much of a pussy I've been. Yeah. ye. When it comes to I love animals, but when it comes to like I love animals when I'm prepared to see them You don't have make j sed by them. No. I don't really like that. I don't like that shit of movies either. I like to be prepared for things. Uh, but I don't like that. I don't like the, uh, you know, like a like if I mount in public and I saw like even a cat would get me If it was like running real quick, I don't like quick shit We were in the garden yesterday before I came for dinner with you and my housemate was looking at this sirrel and he was like, dude, can you imagine if squirrels any bigger than they are The fucking pace, the frame rate that squirrels move at is so fast. would be If they wanted you, you would be completely dead. Even at the size they are clambering all over you, youd just flail forever and then be died. This is unbelievable. I feel like I'm speaking to my conscious because I have talked about this so many times. But my thing is like, the size that they are If they decided It's over. It is over because what am I going to do? I can't fight two squirrels One I could probably like rape off me. Two of them though, I mean, they're eating my eyes out. because they're so fast and they let you see them get up a tree It's at the speed of light So like This isn't happen again for me. Like I'm not that. so. If the squirrels wanted to, they could you know try and fe fi fu f your way through getting around this fucking squirrel that's all over you. It's a fear of mine. I also don't really like birds. Oh, I hate bugs. You want to see me turn into a little bitch. You put a cockroachher on this table right now. Don't like that at. Is a New Yorker? I think ye I don't like the animal of your city. I know It's a state bird. I don't like it at all. I don't like things that have like you know, like little an like little hands and antennas and They're like wet. Yeah. likeike, you know, like you see like tarantulas up close and it's like, how many eyes does this thing have? And then and then they have It looks like they have a couple of mouths and a bunch of teeth and I'm like, I just not for me. Not for me at all. And they're hairy. I can't. It's too much. What do you think they think of you? That's a great question for when you interview a tarrantula, I'm gonna watch that fucking episode. I am gonna watch that. Let me show Santiago. What do you have a lookuck in Jose Santiago, how do you feel about? Tarantulas Maybe that's the guy that everybody thinks that you look like Proably I'm sure there's famous tarantula. There's gotta be thousands Y. You've got this line, be realistic about where you stand, but not where you can go. Yeah, what's that mean I think that that is the thing that like helps me the most. Like I really feel like my If you could pick a superpower that you have, like something that you know, is the reason for the way you are, Brdie Shankson. Right Well, yeah, I honestly, honestly, yes And you're in good shape. Those two things I would talk every very fine. Yeah, yeah. Oh my Godd. That's why I mean, I went for a run this morning. That's why But I think that Being realistic with yourself especially like where you stand at the moment is very important because a lot of people do this thing where they conflate manifesting and I don't know, this like positive affirmation thing for like Just tell yourself that you're better than you are which I I think that has a place in certain areas, but I do think it's important to realize where you are because it helps it humplles you And you say, this is where I am right now. And this is what I'm capable of. And if you know yourself, then no one can really say anything to you. You can't be hurt by a comment or anything like that. You are on a mission. I know who I am And then the the un or I don't even know what the fuck the rest of it was, but it's like like not being realistic about where you can go I'm extremely unrealistic about that part So that part, I really believe that I can accomplish anything. I don't think it's easy. but like I'll give you an example that's like insane and some people are going to be like, fuck this kid I saw a video of Ben Alelack and Matt Damon winning the Academy Award for B screenplay. and I watched it back like twenty times. Not kidding. I'm also like that. I'll watchh it like crazy. if I'm like feeling something from it. I'm watching that and a part of me is going like, I can do that And I don't, like In a sane mind, I don'ts obviously that's crazy to say, but I do believe that. Like I believe that I can't do it right now. I don't think I'm capable or like my first shot at, I can do it, but I feel like can like if I wanted to and really apply myself, I can do that. Obviously that counts for nothing. You have to put in all that work. but I think the fact I think letting yourself know that it is possible and you are capable of actually achieving that goes a long way. you know, like having certain people blow up as a musical artist that came from like a small town or whatever. like that is very inspiring to those people that live in a small town or anyone that lives in a small town. Like that's a relatable thing. It's like, well, usually only people from LA are movie stars, but you came from this small town. So I live in a small town over here So That lets me know that like, oh, it is possible to make it in some sort of way Um And that's just an example of that where If you allow yourself to be like, I can do that like if I wanted to and I am I've become like obsessed with things, like very passionate about things to the point like, I'm nuts de Like I'm fucking crazy. Like I when I really, like when I was thinking about MSG and radio City, those were two really big moments in my life And for radio City, I I knew what song I wanted to like I wanted us to come out to like a year before it even happened. beforefore it actually was booked, I like knew what song I wanted it to be and I wanted to know like I knew how we were going to promote it and all these other things because I like hear a song and then it kind of motivates me a little bit and I have to listen to it a bunch of times to the point where like now I'm visualizing this thing. like I'm doing the manifesting and I I literally was listened because the song is Bob O'Reilly Tays wasteman fire So I I had that song in mind for this and Then I would like, if I went for a run and I put it on, like sometimes I would just cry because I just like want it so bad. But I don't know Sometimes I want that and I don't even know what I want. Like I'm just very intense about This is going to sound. I mean, I don't know. we got this. so like But like energy is so like real to me. And if I can hear a song or I see a video or I see U someomeone talking about something and it resonates with me even a little bit. I have to watch it religiously and I just I just want to understand so much of like why I feel that way and it inspires me. And I really think that like N it goes beyond people saying like anything is possible, which is true But that's very general. L I feel very capable. L I actually feel capable to to do things and justust because I think it, obviously that means nothing U, but I do there's like a feeling in me. like truly, like it's like in my body that I really feel like if I go after some sort of project I will get it done in some way or I'll fail at it, which is totally fine because it's not that doesn't stop me. Like obviously, you're going to fail failed many times many times It doesn't stop me from Wanting to get to that position. I will always go. 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Right now, you can get up to thirty five percent off your first subscription and that thirty day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below or heading to livementus. com slash modern wisdom and using the code mododern Wisdom Have you always felt like that? Or have you trained yourself into feeling like this? It sounds like you've got a lot of self belief, at least for the future. Yeah, I do Yes. I would say that I always kind of felt that way. partartially in certain ways were how I grew up U I always felt like I'll be fine even if I wasn't going to be. I was perfectly okay with not really being fine like financially, like not being fine. and I literally just wanted to do this sort of thing. That's all I wanted to do. was to have this job and entertain people. It wasn't about how much money. It was literally like, I want to do it and I kind of want to do it on my own terms and I want to stand out and I want to be as authentic as possible So that's kind of what My goal was, like that's what drives me is to I don't want to Vveer too far off from the person I was when I first started doing all this. Does that makes sense because the mindset that like I was just talking about, like that hasn't changed at all the way that I sort of view it like I think I can do it. so I have to do it my way sort of thing. and Part of that. is I'm becausecause I'm very realistic with myself, I am I love criticism That resonates especially. Like if people are just like hating and it doesn't really hit you at all, whatever it doesn'tatter But when someone criticizes you or they have advice for you and they say something and you're like, oh I love that. I love those moments. Part of the reason why me and Greg work together is because years ago, I like wrote a script and I was like showing like my friends and family and shit. they're like, Oh my God, this is so funny. Sent it to him He sent me back like eight pages on why it sucks likeike Like so many things like why it sucks. And I was reading all of them and I'm like, oh my God, these make so much sense. And like that's exciting for me becausecause it's like now I'm making some sort of progress. L there's no way I'm getting this right on the first try Like I am super down to be wrong because I'm not I'm not trying to be right about I can do something, like I'm trying to do something extraordinary, which is going to require some sort of collaboration, especially at this point, especially if you want to do something really extraordinary and like win some sort of award or whatever, like My approach would be to something like that the Academy Award is what I'm talking about, which is not actually like a goal I don't want people to feel like This is what I'm doing over here. but 's it's more of like If I get the opportunity I'm putting everything into this thing and I will dot every Ie and cross every T and I I'm not trying to get a green lit. I'm trying to get it to be the greatest show anyone's ever seen for its category. You know, like That is kind of my approach to those things and I feel very capable, especially with like the people that I have around me, like I get a lot of help and I believe in them tremendously. And I think that we're super lean I just feel very capable in that way. We didn't really expand the team like crazy for any of these big moments. I kept it like the people We were all doing it for the first time and we were figuring it out. and you know, after after realizing that I'm referring to touring now, but it was just six of us and really like four of us are kind of like a making decisions and dealing with the companies and whatever We wanted to do it ourselves. A company had offered help to help with the tour, but we wanted to do it. We thought we felt that we were capable. We also wanted to see how involved it was and if we were just going to give money away to somebody or if we could handle it ourselves And we did the show For two years veryer good like success with it And Now we know what's involved, but that was always going to be the approach because it's like, we can do it Like let's just do it ourselves. and a lot of people We heard from a lot of venues that a lot of people show up with like a big team and they have, you know, this and that. grranted, we don't really have like a super involved to be fair Um, but They were people were always kind of like, oh, it's just you guys. I' like You you turned up to MSG with five people And they were like, There was a stage manager that Like they have people there. like they but like usually, I mean, MSG is a different thing. They hire like some guy who's like done it and he's like for real., But in other places it's just someone who works at the theater and sometimes you get to a theater that's like super old. And, you know, like in in Tampa, I don't remember the name of the venue, but We went there and the computer that they tried to upload are like show to basically because we have some assets on the screen and whatnot and some other components Eh, um The computer was like from fucking eighteen fifty seven. And the guy's like, hold on, I got a MacBook. He brings out something from nineteen ninety five. I'm like, we're getting warmer, but this won't turn on. And we had to get our photographer to go back to the hotel room. get his laptop set up the entire show and then we basically ran the entire thing. So sometimes you're into that If you don't have an entire team like that that shows up and like plugs in and does the whole thing but we like to keep it super lean. I enjoy that. and I enjoy saying that All this stuff that you see and everything that we've kind of accomplished have come from these people What's the what's the gender split of your show of your audience? I believe it's around seventy thirty female. So it skews female U It may be like a little lower than that, but none of the live shows The live shows it's overwhelming me Overwhelmingly female. Yeah.ty percent ninety five percent. I mean, I don't know about ninety five, but we're getting there. Like it's I think it's probably like realistically like eighty five percent Like it's a lot People's Apple watchatches go off. Yes, told you about that, but it's very loud. My first show ever, I was like super nervous and I didn't really know what to expect. I didn't know if we were going to do a good job And I walked out on stage and the only thing I could think about was how loud it was. I was like, o my God, like I've never heard something like this before. I've never I've never like been on a stage in front of that many people, O our first show, I think was seventeen hundred people in New Jersey. and Jersey women will make a lot of noise as well. Yeah, they do make a lot of noise Yeah. Oh my Godd. a lot of that. Yeah One of the most common areas. I think it's the most commonly cited psychological area for growth that women want to work on. and certainly at my shows because I do a lot of Q and A. it's the most common thing that women talk about to me as well is imposter syndrome what you have is kind of like reverse imposter syndrome. I also have imposter syndrome though But you have it at a level where Why is everybody here for me? But at no point does it put a ceiling on where you think that you can go So I think for a lot of people Their sense of self now is I shouldn't be here And that bleeds over into and therefore definitely can't go that much further Hm Does that make sense? sureure? And I think that at least by the sands of things, sometimes get surprised with like, what the fuck is like MSG and radio city with all of these people and apparently it's one hundred and thirty decibels. Yeah doesn't slow you down. going forward. No, because onene now I also feel like an enormous responsibility because for a long time it was just me who was making all the decisions and was I didn't have any employees, so I didn't have anyone or I did have an employee, but we were younger, so there wasn't a lot of stakes, but now I have employees that have children that have mortgages, that have you know, things to pay for and like there's a little bit more O pressure from that. but I also in those moments, I have imposter syndrome where I kind of feel like this is obviously very ridiculous that this many people are here and I don't I don't I don't really know how it happened this because it feels very quick, like it just kind of flies by and then you're You're there, I'm standing on stage at MSG in front of a sold out crowd and you're kind of like, what the hell did I do to get here? I don't even remember. And that's like That's a that's a, you know, a weird experience, but I don't even know where I was going with that to be honest, but it's I do have imposter syndrome, but in those moments Part of me is also like, I can't get scared Like I can't stop this because too many people are kind of counting on it. and I think that I I sort of owe it to myself in a way that I should keep pushing and seeing what I'm capable of because Really the only thing that I think holds a lot of people back is this fear things like that where you're like, well, this is either that's not for me completely or this is good enough or This is good enough is actually not what I want to say because I think that everything that I've been doing is like good enough, but I just want to know that like I want to know what my full potential is. L I want to know what I'm capable of. There's still fear that lives in me that feels like you turn down certain opportunities or you don't do certain things because of fear and you Especially how much do you feel that? How much do you feel for How was that I think all the time. I mean, there's certain parts of it that There's certain parts of it that I'm afraid of and It gets easier when you kind of do stuff. I was afraid to do live shows. I was like nervous about doing it because You're so comfortable, like just on the internet and it's like you can edit it. It's there's no like really high stakes, but can you perform for two hours in front of people like that's a very big jump in a different thing. especially when you're doing a podcast show peopleople have no expectations coming into the show like what the fuck is it going be?ike are you going to get on there sit on stage and talk to your boy and that's going to be the whole show. Like it can't be that. Um It can be. someome people do it, but I was not interested in that whatsoever. Lzy people do Yeah I was not interested in that whatsoever. I held off until we had a good idea and also at a point where we felt like We are hitting a stride and the show has like grown to the point and this feels like, okay, this is a logical next step, but we're going to make it worth it for people because I Going back to what I was saying before, none of this is for the money. I really just am not motivated by money at all Um So I would feel horrible if I went out there and didn't try If they loved it, it would make it worse because then they would feel like, oh, I manipulated them and into giving money and they're happy. Why are they happy? I didn't even try mailed it in Yeah, I mailed it in and they're happy about that. L they shouldn't be happy about that. Like they should hold me to a higher standard, you know? And I think that's like manipulation. and people do that to their audience. There's a line the guy who you didn't know, Alex there. No, I know Alex. I just was shocked by the fact that you guys were up Yeah it's very regal. Wow. he's got a line which he says Control freak is a word that people with low standards use to describe people with high standards Trol freak. is a term that people with low standards used to describe people with high standards.. And what you've said is starting every , crossing every T, spending a lot of time obsessing over. It sounds like you're quite obsessive. Yeah to me. Like I mean, by definition, I watch a video and there's a section of a video that I can't stop thinking about because it makes gives me goosebumps or it makes me cry. Yeah You're obsessing over this emotion, this energy, you're obsessing over this vibe, you're obsessing over this song for your show that hasn't even yet been booked. and I've got this idea that I think Obsession' really misunderstood by people that we're all obsessed with discipline and motivation The motivation's cool because it's kind of like relatively free discipline. like it makes you want to do the thing and discipline is you making yourself do the thing Yeah like that's Goggins and Jocko and getting up at four thirty AM and spitting soordust and willpower and stuff like that. Yeah. But then there is this next level, which is obsession. An obsession is I can't not do the thing I guess I'm unable to stop myself from doing it. That has been something that is very present in my life for the longest time. I dropped out of college because of that feeling. I when I was I went to a I don't even know why I did this, but I was in high school I went to a Catholic high school. I was a good student You know, like near nineties You know, something like that, whatever letter that is, but When it came time to apply for colleges, I just never did it. Like you're supped do in like November or something, and I just never did it because and I couldn' even tell you why. I don't even know what my rationale was at the time. but Then I I lied to my parents and I said, Yeahah, I applied here and there and I'm just waiting. like just to put off hearing about it. U, and then I eventually just went I told my parents that I didn't get into any schools And then I went, which is like insane if that actually happened, which whatever. but I went to a community college. I went to a school called Queensoro Community Cege And I did a semester there and It was very hard for me. because I I just felt so strongly that it wasn't for me. And it bothered me that that's like a thing that a lot of people say. And I'm like, am I just one of those people that's like, oh, you know, school's just not for me and it's kind of like ' I didn't think I was better than it. Like I still don't think that. and I think that it has its place for sure. Um But there was something in me. there was like a feeling of like, I can't go back likeike I can't. And I don't have a plan. At that time, I was making some YouTube videos, but they were amounting to nothing really. I enjoyed doing it, but it wasn't like I thought This is what I'm going to do. This is also in twenty eleven when there wasn't influencers, There wasn't even an Instagram. There was there was nothing. So the idea that you could make a career off of this like didn't really exist. So there wasn't like, this guiding light of like, I'm going do this. I was doing YouTube videos and I wasn't getting paid any money to do them. But I did feel like Maybe if I grew this to a certain point, I could leverage the audience into like an audition for something. I don't know. L I wasn't really thinking, but I didn't necessarily want to be an actor I just liked doing that time, but something was pushing me away and I literally would drive to the school and sit in the car very dramatic and I would just stare at the school and I'm like, can't I literally just can't get myself to go. and goingo back to I'm an insane person. there was one time where I literally had like a notebook and I just wrote out like an interview that like Barbara Walters was doing with me where she was like walking me around. She's like, so this is your college. And I was like thinking like that. like I just want something so bad. I know I can't get it You didn't even know what it was. No which is still that's very that's really interesting, becausecause you've got You had ambition without direction zero. 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Right now, you can get a free sample pack of Element's most popular flavors with your first purchase. We're going to the link in the description below. We're heading to drinklmN. com suchash modern wisdom. That's drinklmN dot comot Flush wister So that's really, really interesting. So I think a lot of the time people assume that in order to move, you need to have a plan. you need to know where you're going That's kind of classic. My background on the podcast for the first couple of years was kind of productivity bro. It was deep work and focus timers and learning how to organize your desk and using notes apps and stuff. Almost everything didn't work except for just building up the muscle of trying to not get distracted and probably not using your phone as much as Right want to? like that's kind of it a lot of the Standard advice is set your twenty five year goal and then break it down into five year periods and then you do it in eighteen months. and it's ninety dayays sprints and every day to build this all together But it kind of bypasses the fact that If you're somebody that's got a passion passassion All you need to do is find something to plug that into R And I wonder how many people because they have a fear of not knowing what it is that they want to do. themselves into something that feels safe because they're scared of having this drive, but not having the direction likeike ambition without direction, which fucking like that's a lovely little framing Um, They don't know where to put it. So they're like, well, I'll do this. I'll go to the college, I'll get the job. And then before they know it, they've kind of tumbled backwards There There's an idea called sliding versus deciding. They've slid into a set of train tracks that they're now on They're not able to use their passion. They're not that passionate about it, but it feels really safe. Yeah. I'm super, super safe in this situation. But all of that passion is kind of still burning,esn't really have anywhere to go. And after a while, I get the sense that if you don't keep giving it at least the fuel of the potential for dream that it sort of buns out. I think that there are people that probably have more passion than others because I do think there are people that are perfectly content with uh you know, going to college, getting a job and like that's their life. And I think that's amazing. Like I think that as long as you feel fulfilled, like you should do that. They are very lucky Yeah. they're very lucky because the alternative is that you need to contort yourself into this weird fucking shape Yeah run all over the planet trying to work out who you are. A part of me was afraid because I did have all that passion And I didn't know where to put it Um, I think that I think that if you're lucky enough to find something that really lights a fire in you, like something that you actually enjoy, like this is the thing Like you It don' For me, it's like you need to do it Like I need to do I not do it. I can't. likeike I can't, I have to. And that's why like dropping out of college felt like that. Like I was that was the first time that I felt something like It was alm had a physical reaction to me where it was like Don't do that. And there was no fucking plan And mind you, I was always like a good student growing up and I played sports and stuff and I felt like there was a lot of Uh, There was high expectations for me. and then I was not fulfilling that at all. And then I'm going to go Well, I'm also dropping out of college, you know, and That was a lot of L's in a short space. Oh my go, dude It is a lot of lls. And there was only one time where I was like, Man, I'm fucking this up bad. Like maybe I'm just like full of shit. likeike you think do you have just because I have all this passion Oh my ambition. Exactly. It's like, Bro, this counts for nothing. No one cares that you're passionate. like and you're waiting for what? Like what are you waiting for? Like what are you gonna to do And then There was a time where I did have that realization of, because when I was younger, I was a little more like arrogant about it in my head. where I was like, I'm gonna to find something. Like I was like kind of sure, which Not sure There was a moment where like all my friends are going to college and some of them are away, someome of them in neighborhood, some of them have jobs and whatever. And I'm literally doing nothing now because I dropped out of college I don't even have aob at this point. How did that feel Like a fucking loser, dude Like I just I literally felt like That was the first time that I ever told myself like, yo, you're full of shit, dude. Like you have all this passassion and U you know, I'm sitting in a car wriding a fucking nice Barbara Walter's interview. Yeah, like what have I talked to your mum and dad. Yeah, like she'll be dead by the time this happens anyway. But like I was like, I was you're sitting there writing that and then Part of me is like I'm upset with myself because I'm like you told yourself the lie and you believed it and I do believe it is sort of like a lie because that could get you in trouble and it would have got me in trouble too. If I followed that pass because no matter what, I was following that. I follow the excitement as far as like professionally is and I think that's important. especially even now, if you ask me like, what's your five year plan? I don't have one. I'm waiting for the excitement to appear I'm at the point now where it's a little easier to do that because I can kind of sit back a little bit and sort of rest on my laurels and you know, kind of make decisions and I could kind of float here but If something pops up and that excites me, that's what I'm doing. Like and I have no idea. it could look totally different. You know what it sounds like? It sounds like one of the things that you've really steered away from, at least when making your life decisions is obligation I don't Not like you're not Tandy. you' telling my dad. He wouldn't like You're not obliged to do something J because people expected you to. just because you were doing it previously, just because your parents might have wanted you to do it. Like I understand. the obligation comes with a lot of baggage. fucking childhood trauma coming through your eyes. No But I do know what you mean. I think that's true. Like a lot of people feel obligated to go and do something. They even feel obligated to keep moving. R? There's this sense of o fuck, like I can't just sit and wait or I can't just sit and think, and in some ways that's true Right you shouldn't just be Wish it wanted it, do it. dream it, believe. and not go and work for it in your way through the through your life. Like that's it's gonna result in you being on the couch until you get kicked out. Yeah you' a proble. I also like I have a deep desire to earn it. Like I want to earn it and I want people to look at me and feel like he earned it. You know, I don't want people to feel like there was a shortcut or anything like I think that anyone can look at. log of stuff that you've done and say that you haven't earned it. I'd like to think that the same thing is true for me as well. right there. But I feel that about things that haven't happened yet either. Like any sort of thing that pops up that I Um We'll do like I can tell you right now, I don't know the specifics, but my life moving forward will look very random. Like there probably will be other projects that are like not podcasting, not a live show, whatever that I'm like, I'm going put my all into that or whatever. Like I go with the excitement and I want to be good at those things. like I want to. That's why I'm so willing to take criticism because I want to be good Like I want to be good. I want people to know that I'm trying really hard to do this thing, if it excites me. What do you think about the sort of current trend of people trying to be nonchalant I such a British pronunciation, nonchalant. I like that better to be honest Oh Anishland Nice a lot. In what way do you mean? Well, you're talking about, I want people to see me trying really hard You' trying hard, trying hards kind of lame to a certain category of people, especially people on the internet, which is why you exist. Everybody like thinks it's land. Yeah. So there's There's a world at the moment only ever talks in irony. Like they only ever make ironic sentences and ironic statements. Nobody stands for something legitimately. They only ever stand against things or kind of mock stuff or suggest it's kind of like the passive aggressive pushing of your own things. Well, you know, like this thing's like, all right, I guess.. As opposed to I am giving this my absolute fucking everything In the UK, for instance, we have Tall Poppy syyndrome. people that try Reedy hardot called Kynos too keen You're too keen for this thing. You're too excitable. You'd get called fucking very American of you that, dude Like that really like it's enthusiasms looked down on to a degree, especially if you come from a working class background, which is as scum class as I can be. like you kind of encouraged to not too big for your boots. I must have heard that Thousands of times, donon't get too big for your boots. Yeah. donon't have dreams that are too big the sing Me is like I realize that. but if you're People who are acting nonchalant about, especially about things that they are actually passionate about, it's just insecurity like manifesting in that way where it's like, I need to appear like I'm not really trying, but I am trying whatever, like I'm not insecure about Those things So I'm like, don't worry, I got them. But I'm not insecure about those things. so I'm willing to try really hard at them and fail and fall on my face or whatever. And it kind of excites me too that there's a lot of people that aren't willing to do that because it's like then it feels like I have a le up on them because I'm willing to hit the ground super hard because when I hit the ground like Then I know likel. you slammed a door on my face because I know like, okay, I got these to chse from now. Like at least I have a decision Like you made a final decision, like that failed. Then I can move on. I'm not nonchalant about it because I'm not even doing it for the perception. I'm doing it for me. And when I say that I want to earn it, it's not necessarily for outside validation. Like I want to know When I go to sleep at night, like you worked hard and you got that thing. That feels really good. Like that's an amazing feeling to know that my all into this thing. It started as an idea. I said it out loud, I worked hard to do it. And then it happened That's an amazing feeling. There's a quote from Mark Manson, he says, Do hard shit Not because it's fun, but because the win actually means something You bled for it, you broke for it, you ended it Easy wins are forgettable Hard ones change you pointint. Exactly. What is better than that? There is nothing better than that. This is one of the things I I think about the world of AI and how many people are maybe relying on assistance for their job or for their writing or their creative pursuits. And what it's doing is it's actually robbing you of the thing that you came here to get. Yes. The thing that you came here to get is the sensation of I work I did hard shit And I got good I got good at it. And I got good one rep at a time. And yeah, like that's that to me is like the biggest payoff when I could watch something like an old video or I can watch like something from our first shows or just know whatever. I'm just like, I'm better than that now which is good Be like I never put together one of those. u the timeline of Josh Santigo fucking like videos over. I'm gonna make it worse each. This shit I'm gonna try this bullshit. you can shit the Nutronic like puroseally missed quoting everything. Sone did someone did it by the way, sorry. Thank you. good. G get in any Um Someone did a video a little while like last week or something, it's really fucking good. And um I watched it and they went back and analyzed first episodes I'd ever done on the podcast They sent this line and they were like You might not think that this guy would go on to become anything in regards to a successful podcaster. I was like It's true. It was a thousand one hundred episodes ago In twenty eighteen. Yeah in the northeast of the UK in my old office in Newcastle. You know, it's funny you actually bring that up because This morning, I got a random DM from a person and they did exactly this is fucking weird by the way, because now you know what I'm saying Someone, this has never happened to me ever I feel like ph mentalist right now. like No actually. But this that exact thing happened to me for the first time ever. Someone sent me a screenshot. of It was It wasn't the first episode, but it was one of the first ones and I titled it Who the fuck is this guy? And I talked about myself and like what the podcast is going to be and like things that I believe in or whatever And the message that they left me was like, I just want to say that I've been a fan of yours for a really long time and I just listen to this. and It's really cool to see that You know, you've gone on to be successful and have some fame and this and that, But like this sounds like you. Like you're still like the same person there and That is like the biggest compliment that I could get because that's the whole point. Like that's that's what I want. That's like what I believed in. I believed that if I was authentic enough then I could stand out And I had the luxury of starting when I did because there wasn't a lot of people doing it. Now everyone's doing it but it's hard to be authentic because you're constantly sort of inspired by other things that are happening on the internet, if that makes sense. I had the idea that if I could be authentic enough It would work out What's that mean? If I could be authentic enough, mostost people would say if I could come up with a novel enough idea, if I could be creative enough, if I could work hard enough if I could find the right niche you're saying He competitive advantage, the key sort of fuel that you are optimizing for was authenticity Why For Well, for me at the time, like it was I was making YouTube videos and a lot of people were kind of doing the same thing. so that felt like the only way that I can stand out is if I do things sort of my way and I put my like kind of flare on it or whatever. I didn't want to and the things that other people were doing felt lazy to me So I was like, I'm not going to do that. I'll do some other stuff. I', you know, I'll experimental. I mean By the way whatever I tried to do sucked besides the point, but my thought was like if I can stay authentic to my voice, then I'll stand out because there's only one of me And there's only one of you. And I think that's true for anybody. like that ultimately is the goal there when you see something new, it's exciting You know, like when a new thing drops people want, it's a brand new thing. We haven't seen it before. So if you are authentic and you sort of are placed on a platform or in a you know, a medium like this or something and your as authentic as you can be You're going to stand out because guess what? There's a lot of other people that are just trying to be like the other ones who were already successful. That is so fucking good That's really, really good. No no one can beat you with being you Now right But the proble easiest job be That's it. No one can beat you at being you, but a lot of people are trying to be someone else Yes And maybe that is because of some sort of insecurity and there's other stuff to impact there, but like If you can get to a place where you're okay with yourself and you know yourself and you can apply that into I mean, for me, I'm specifically talking about like content creation and you know that sort of thing. But if you can do that Uh I think that that pays dividends in my field, like what I do. Like I think that makes you stand apart from everyone else because if you are trying to dress and sound and make videos that look like if you're trying to make the same videos as Mr. Beast, like do what do you think? you're just going to be Mr. Beast? Like it already exists and he's the guy And he has a specific formula. I think he also says a lot of like smart things about like how to create viral moments, and he actually gives really good advice in those ways Thinking that you're going to make it because you're just going to copy him, I think is it will hurt you ultimately. You know what the interesting thing with that is? I've met Jimmy once for Two minutes, I don't really know him Um, Let's say that Mr. Beast isn't being mrbeasted. Let's say that he's performing in some way his insecurity is driving him. Let's just say that that's the case regardless of whether he's being authentic or not You trying to be him still won't work. Bret whichich is the interesting thing, right? Even if you try to model someone who's being authentic, which not many people are by definition. Right That still won't work because it's still inauthentic to you Now there's things that you can learn. It's not as if you learned how to video a podcast or put together a live show without taking inspiration. You said you watched Ben Afflack and Matt Damon get this thing and they've got ways of speaking and ways of working, and they've got a philosophy behind things to go Oh, I love what they did with Goodwill hunting. and I love the way that they did this thing. But I don't really like that so much. And then you take it and it becomes a part of you as opposed to you trying to be it. Yeah, just the authenticity as the biggest competitive advantage you have. Yeah. I think is a really interesting idea. I really do think that's true. And I also I'm not trying to like I'm not I'm not even trying to be like the best. I'm just trying to like be like me with learning more, like with taking something from like anytime we've had conversations and you know, we get into these types of discussions, like I can take some stuff from there. So I can take things from you and be like, well, I'm taking that and I'm keeping it. like'm But in order to do that, I think that you have to be at a certain place with yourself where you're willing to tell yourself that you're wrong. You could think something so much and then you have an argument with someone And it's very hard to be like, o, fuck, I'm wrong that person's right and completely change your point of view like to think Sometimes I can do that And that helps tremendously. Like I really think that everyone has something to offer everybody has something that will help you, whether it be and it could come in the form of like horrible advice. And then like that I don't want to do that. Exactly. But you can learn from everyone, but making it I think it's a mistake to On look at people that are like your heroes as like the people you need to follow. There's a lot of people around you that you can get things from that are going to help you. peopleeople who don't know anything about your job or anything My mom will say something that I'm like, Ohh Okay. and it doesn't it's not always applied to the job, but it's also like my life my actual personality and the way that I approach life The only way to grow is to completely is to constantly admit when you're wrong. In my opinion. feels like I try to take responsibility for everything that goes wrong in my life. I truly try to do that because that's what I can control I can't really control how other people are going to react or what's going to happen or whatever. but How when something bad happens to you To me, I think that There's an opportunity there. when something bad happens to you, where I can learn from this or I can take something from it, or I could just put up a wall and be like, wow, that person's fucked up. But like what is your involvement in that? You know, like something an easy example is if you're in a relationship and you get cheated on It's like Well, what the fuck? like she's a whore. She's whatever. But like what is your involvement actually? And I'm not saying that let's let's absolve her You know, shouldhn't have fucked see for sure. But like what could you get from that situation? Are you capable of getting to the point of like, even though that I was the safest option and I was taking care of her and it was nice to her. I never cheated on her. I never scream at her. I cleaned the house and I do whatever Maybe you're boring, though And that's fine. O maybe you picked wrong. Or maybe maybe weren't discerning in who you chose. Sure But like it's on you in some capacity because even if you are Let's say like a boring guy or it's like super vanilla and there're just it feels like every day is predictable and whatever. And she got bored It's okay to admit that like, okay, that's something that happened to me. It doesn't mean that you have to change because if you don't want to, you don't have to. But at least know your involvement Wh still you could still go fuck you. But then you have to move on with your life to learn from it as well. It already happened. Like there's no reason to not think about it and get something from it. I've learned from over a thousand podcast episodes that the easier you make your health routine, the more consistent you'll be. It's like golf, right? You want to keep it simple and not mix a bunch of pills. You want the eye of the tiger not D youI of the Tiger That's why I'm such a huge fan of AG onene. One scoop contains seventy five vitamins, minerals, probiotics and whole food sourced ingredients in a single daily drink. and now they've taken it a step further with AG onene N genen backed by four clinical trials. And in those trials, it was shown to fill common nutrient gaps, improve key nutrient levels in just three months, and increase healthy gut bacteria by ten times, even in people who already eat well. gone are the days of needing to buy a load of pills in the gym parking lot from some juice bro in a cybertruck if you're unsure about it. AG one's got a ninety day money backack guarantee. So you can try it every single day for three months and if you do not like it, they will give you your money back. Right now, you can get a free AG onene welcome kit that includes a bottle of D three K two, an AG onene flavor sampler, and that ninety day money back guarantee by going to the link in the description below. heading to drinkagy one d. com slash What in wisdom. You know one of the reasons I think that people get angry and defensive in situations like that. It's not just that they've been wronged or this situation was hard and there's all of these emotions going around as well It's that they know if they did a little bit of self or a lot of self reflection They made a mistake too blaming the other person and doing the fuck you thing? Yeah allows you to hide gives you distance from where you could have been responsible. Yeah And I think that's the reason people would rather get angry at someone else than get angry at themselves. And a lot of the time we have betrayed ourselves in situations. You have. It's like, you know, Maybe I should have fucking paid a little bit more attention. Maybe I should have seen the red flags earlier. Maybe I should have heeded the advice from my business partner with that deal or whatever it might be. That doesn't mean that you're a bad person. Not at all. It doesn't mean that you're less than or irredeemable or that things are broken. But it does mean that you've got something to learn And kind of like, if you're robbing yourself of the opportunity to learn that thing already shit You might as well try and get something good out of it. That's why like everyone looks back at them like, oh, I don't know bad every. I don't know how you did in school. but like a lot of people that I know have like looked back in like high school or whatever and be like, bro, I wish I like tried harder because then I could be, you know, blah blah, blah. It's sort of like one of those things where it's like, you're already presented the situation, the bad thing already happened. What can you get from it Becauseuse you could walk away with something could help you. And even if you've done the work and there's a realization of like, you know what? I'm just not responsible. That's okay.. That's also a takeaway. Yeah which is a lesson for you to take. But exactly if you don't do the self assessment. know the word that's coming to mind as you say it, alchemy turning something that's kind of useless and shitty into something that's really valuable. Yeah. And sometimes what you have in the beginning versus what you get out is like way smaller. This is already shitty. Yeah. So you might as well try and work a little bit of alchemy on this thing to convert it into something that's a little bit more beautiful Yeah. I mean, I feel that and I feel the way about everything. I mean, every single time like You know, me and Greg work creatively on a lot of different projects and I think that we're very capable people. I mean, I just talked all that shit I don like could do anything U, but I we've we've run into massive roadbocks where people are like, no But that's good 'cause it's like and it's funny ' becauseuse it's like We are really confident about that. that we got our ass whooped, but that's that's where I like to be. because you know, this sounds so corny and it's like overset in so many ways, but it's just very true that like when you do fail and when you get your ass whooped There's it's it's good because You just closed a possible door and now you have less doors to choose from. There's more of a chance of it happening now because you just learned something. Someone slammed the door in your face, T around. there's other ones. you know, And you can learn from that. And and most of the time, especially with creative projects You will get advice on why it did not work or why it's not good and you try to find a reason Like, okay, I'm okay with it being wrong. I don't need to defend this thing and I don't need to be like one hundred percent right. Like no, fuck you, this is a good script or whatever. L find out why it's bad. F out why it's bad. and then like if you really care about that thing You will find those answers, or else you're just going to keep making the same mistake over and over Or you won't make another thing ever again. and you'll keep holding and being like n, I swear to God, this thing' is going to get greenlland. And you're like, dude. Oh, it's they if Coach had only put me in then I would have got my NFL contract. I didn't blow out of my knee I him blow up my knee. If you keep running around Austinon Lake, you'll be fine Dude, you mentioned your mum a bunch. Yeah. You're still super close with your mum, right Millennials and G Z basically cutting off their boomer parents at record rates and Calling it healing You know? Yeah What do you think about that? L famamilies never felt more optional and I think that's Oh, open interrogating That's crazy Um You know, I? I don't know if I have a unique or niche abnormally good relationship. Yeah So like I think I'm probably in the minority, but My I'm very close with my family and you know, like there there's conversations like my financial advisor has like said stuff like sometimes being like, oh, just, you know, a lot of people like you got when you're doing the will or you're doing whatever, like you should be careful because a lot of people like wh my family has never asked me for anything. They're only supportive people, especially my mother has never asked me for anything. No one has ever asked me for anything. L even my friends Like they're just Supportive. and They're not supportive in the way that they're going show up with their face painted and shit, but they'll they'll be supportive. Uh, you know, I don't know, I don't know what I'm doing that would call for that anyway, to be fair, but that would be nice for them to show up while I'm recording a podcast and just stand in the corner All right Yeah, my family, I'm very close to them. I can't imagine that. When I see things like online or you see it like in a movie sometimes or you kind of hear it that like someomeone has a brother that they don't talk to. I'm like It's outrageous. Like I would never let that fly Like I would fly across the world and kick my sister's door in and be like, You're gonna fucking sit here and talk to me and we're gonna to figure this thing out You know, like that's that's how we deal with issues. like There's space. Home invasion Yeah. kidnapping. whatever I have to do really, I can do anything. I kidnaap. Yeah. but u Yeah, like that's how we kind of deal with problems. When there's something going on or whatever, like, no one talks shit behind people's backs in my family. It's like, you're going to hear it ' it's going to come out right now. And then it usually just results in like a very easy thing that you can kind of get over. There's there's rarely a long lasting under the table grudge or anything like that. ' someone just called out, said, What are you fucking still mad Like it'll just you know, like it's kind of like that We were all just like very close. That is the most queen's approach to thing What do you fucking st, man? So fuck But my mom, like my mom is great Both my parents are great. My father lives in North Carolina now, and my mom is in New York So there was an age where I think you know, And I don't want to speak for parents because I don't have children, but I think that there's probably in my life it was important that My mom is my mom. She's always my mom and we can't be friends. but we but there was a shift in She she stopped trying to be like this mother that's going to make decisions for me. You know, like what age to dive in I don't even I can't really pinpoint it. I would say it's probably younger than my Why did you notice it? Oh, I didn't notice it until like Maybe five, six years ago. that was something that meant a lot. You've just been allowed to free wheel at some point in the past and I didn't notice it. Yeah, like just giving me the space to make mistakes and probably do things that she wouldn't do. and like she knows I'm about to do them and just kind of like, all right, you know, And's there's a trust in that. She doesn't look at me with like, right, good luck, idiot. L it's kind of like There's there's a trust that I'm going to let you be creative, like you have to let your children kind of like be who they are. Like you can't make the same kid over and over again where it's like, this is how you raise a child. They do this. You have to do that. This one has to do that too. And whatever like Children are very different, obviously, and I think that if people You know, maybe this one's really creative, this one's really into whatever and this one's really into that and you kind of have to notice those things and let them do that. And I really believe that my my mother specifically because in the years where I started to realize what was going on we kind of had that relationship where It felt like her guard came down a little bit as a mother and she like let me into her life a little more So I was like able to let her and then it felt more friendly. But she always s, she's like, we can't be friends though She always says that interesting. Yeah Yeah. I suppose That's what I'm thinking about what that moment must be like for parents You know, because you've raised this kid for me. only child R right? even more fucking pressure, even more vigilance, even more everything. The entire genetic lineage rests on the fucking shoulders. This one guy who's still childless And They let you out into the world And they've spent all of this time keeping you alive and raising you and wiping your ass and then still wiping your ass when you're an adult just metaphorically. And now you're out there. and then at some point They need to go I actually think either I don't know if he's good without me But I'm going to let him make mistakes or I think he's good without me and I'm not needed anymore. Right. And both of those situations, the first one The first one's probably even harder because the proulsion to step in. to if you watch your kid Run toward a table with a sharp edge. you go, h Yeah, and I picked them up and you nineteen as you're about to make your first investment. orr at twenty three as you're about to get into a long term long distance relationship with someone that your momum knows is bad for you. you know There's always a h, I'll pick you up and stop you from banging your head on the table.ight There's always that impulse Yeah And at some point You need to go I think he can handle the headbang. And I think it's actually good for him to learn from it That must be those two things must be really, really ucking h for the parents. I imagine like that would be and I'm sitting here as a person who tries to control every single part of his fucking life, that when I have children I'm going to be like, Yeahah, yeah, sure. goo ahead, do it. I'm fine. L you know, that's probably much easier said than done. U yeah, I mean, that's impossible to I can't even imagine like having a child and feeling like I'm completely responsible for this this thing's life and then it it's going to come to a certain point where you have to just completely walk away and be like I I am no longer Hoping mechanism.'re not in charge 'cause then you and ' then it becomes enabling in a away. orr it you're like hindering your child by being like, I'm always going to be there for It's like definitely. They have to feel a little alone, like their decisions are like on them and they have to deal with the repercussions. You can't fix everything, obviously. Yeah, I don't know That's why A lot of people shit talkal University. I'm friends with guys that are largely self taught in a lot of different things. they went to university for a thing and then have found success doing the opposite thing. Yeah. the lesson that they've taken away from that is universities bullshit and with the internet and especially now AI, you can teach yourself anything you wanted. faster pace and follow your passions and change and all the rest of it But I think one of the biggest takeaways from going Uni for me. I was at Uni for five years and then stayed in the same city for another eightight uh was mooving out of the house and living on your own with other people that youre kind of thrust into this situation. You just need to make it work unless you stop obviously, but for the most part stuff still on a set of train track as opposed to I'm going to move in with my friends and then quickly going to stop. There's more guardrails. It's like, well, I'm here for a purpose. And if I don't like this halls of residence, I can just go to the ha manager and say I want to move to a different flat. L there's a degree of support there What it teaches you is, okay, I actually The parents and the kids are kind of it's another umbilical separation, right? It's another cutting of that chord. And this time it Geographically a little bit. sometometimes it's far I think is can be really important. I certainly know for me. Only child. u very insular introverted familyily life That was a huge Changing point Like I grew up My level of socialization and understanding of the world tripled by the time I was twenty one. Right From eighteen. It was insane. It's the same reason why it's like important to Very young children in school. like in like pre K or something, it's like they learned socialization. It's kind of the same but on a different level obviously like going to college and like, now you're on your own, you're around a bunch ks and're going to be like living by yourself for the first time. and You know, for all the reasons that you just said, but it's funny how that like kind of comes around again. Dude, I saw this tweet earlier on today. You're not autistic, you just work from home and it's making you weird I wonder if I can use the fact that I'm an only child as an excuse. Dude, I'll tell you, when I was When I moved into my first real apartment, because I had an apartment that I just like filmed stuff at and it wasn't really like a real apartment. But then my first real apartment, when I moved into that one I felt so weird Like it felt like I'm never I bought like a little bench and some weights and stuff and then I quickly threw that out because I was like, I need to go the jership. Well, yeah. Well, then I was like, I gotta I was like, I got to leave this apartment because I'm working here I live here Now I'm going to work out here I'm not leaving here. Like I'm not leaving. like I'm nuts. I'm like walking around and I'm, you know, whatever. It was just it's so bad to do that. I got a gym memership at a place like half hour away just so I can like drive and We got to we got to talk about insight that we came up with last night that if you're a guy who doesn't have a girlfriend in the house after seven PM You kind of go a bit insane. Dude, what do you do I could tell you, I have a friend who is single and lives on his own now. and I just get like random Headstand pictures I'm like, are you doing headstands? Like, what are you doing? You're stretching likeike It's eight thirty. What are you stretching for? You can like how hard do you go to bed Like it's time for sleep soon Like what are you doing? Like It's like random things like that. I think I asked him recently. I was like What do you do? Day He's a very busy guy. I don't want to take away but like during those hours, it's like, How do you entertain yourself? Because at this point, I don't know how to do that when Like my fiancee leaves. I'm kind of like What the hell do I do now? Like there's no one here? Like I just kind of like walk around, I like clean shit and then I just like There's not much to do Like I'm like, oh, this is kind of boring. Am I going to go for a walk you find yourself building weird hobbies. So ye. I was leaving the house last night to go to dinner with you because you're an insane person and decided to have a dinner at seven thirty PM which for me is like, is that not fucking late What are I talking about That's pretty fucking late. This is an awesome thing. That's not late Thats fucking. seven thirty' late. Okay, we're split fifty fifty in the room seven thirty. Yeah. Well, you was on fucking easn Yeah Hh So I'm leaving the house and his girlfriend's in Costa Rica looks at me and he looked really sad and came up and he whispered and he's like Where are you going? I don't know what to do Let a puppyg eyes, it's like. I don't know what to do. George, it's fine. You'll. I don't know what you'll you read stuff or whatever. and I got back And he'd written all of this stuff and he had post it notes everywhere. So he'd done he was doing headstands. Yeah. He'd done his equivalent of doing headstands. Yeah And then ten thirty PM eleven o'clock after I got back from dinner I must have heard him sneeze fifteen times in a row. What the hell was he doing? Fucking fifteen times in a row. That this is agitating To me, ye How annoying must that be if you're the sort of per? What's the most number of times you've ever sneezed in a row? I've never gotten close to fifteen. I think you if you do that. Yeah. I think I've done like five good ones and then everyone tells you to shut the fuck up. You get Iag fifteen fififteen fifteen I mean, I'm kicking this guy of my house. Get the fuck out ofuck. I know you wrote those post it notes earlier on and you've been lonely tonight, but it does not excuse you sneezing fifteen times. fifteen's crazy. Is he dead? actuallyually I haven't seen him today. mayaybe. He's probably dead, dude. Yeah You should probably check on him. Don it isn't like there was like a old It's like if you sneze,'re like heart stops. I'm like fifteen, as Chat GPT If you sneeze, does your heart stop? Or something like that I can wait for this. U the AI iss going be like, what idiot askks that question No, what does happen is the sneezing briefly changes the pressure inside your chest, that pressure change can slightly affectood blood flow and momentarily alter your heart rhythm, which is why some people feel like their heart skips a beep at the heart. So he's altering his blood flow like crazy in there But the worst thing was I thought it was over And then there would be a thirty second break And then it would come back. I'm like fucking what is he like all loud? He's allowed It's a real loud one. I hon a big noose. I would prefer that. I hate people who sneeze like inside their bodies. If it scares me, dude, we're like I'm like, yo, you're gonna hurt your neck or something. like your eyes are gonna explode out of your head, like chill Like I have a friend that does that. I'm like, yo, just open your mouth L just of this can be fixed. It just comes out naturally if you just like Let your lips flap, do you think? O. I wonder if there's a personality trait, if there's a commonality between the sort of people who Keep sneezing. Oh man What is? I mean, it's not really like a learned thing I guess. You just kind of like It's weird when you're driving. I get scared when I'm driving. Bro, first of all, you want to talk about that. My dad By the way, I'm convinced he's allergic to the sun. I don't know what's going on. But when he would sometimes he would drive me to school when I was in high school We would get in the car The first thing he does is before he starts the car, he would take his key and clean out his ears with the key Is this just the guy he is. I don't know that and he's deaf. He's not deaf, but he might as well definitely deaf after sticking the car key in his ear. If he went to the doctor, they'd be like, you're deaf. But because he can't hear But he's been shoving car keys in his ears like that Then he would start the car. That would take ten minutes because it's a, you know, it's a completely fucked up minivan. U and then we would be driving on the highway and he would he would let off ten on the highway We're going sixty, seventy and he's sneezing. and I'm looking at him like My guy We're We're drifting Okay. We're not in a middle lane right now Like we're on the we're on the highw. You got to chill the fuck out. And just so I was scared for my life mostly when I was going to high school because of that Um Yeah. and there was a time where he used to drive around in like a work van Be he was like a Um, here were construction He would throw us in the back. There wasn't any seats back there. It was just me, my brother. Yeah. And there's tools. there's, you know, two by fours and wood and There'sicking a washing machine There's yeah, there's like a fucking micosaso there and I'm I'm sitting on the edge of the mosaw hoping that he doesn't h the brakes because the thing's going to go right to my spine But this is like what he would do and I really believe that he's allergic to the son Like he's an interesting guy. His whole tooth came out one time The entire tooth the entire to. It's like, if you Google arttoon tooth Like the ones on commercials that have like a toothbrush and dance, or they got like the fangs or whatever, that came out of his mouth How does that even happen to a person What was he doing sleeping wasn't even choewing gum. He wasn't doing anything. He just popped out of his mouth. You know you should have done headstones before he went to bed. I went to church Bade. headstandance. Yeah, no, he's not doing a headstandance Not now. That's how hard he sleeps. Dude, he his tooth popped out in his sleep, which is insane. And then he just like usually when I' to grind his teeth. He's got to grind his teeth He's got to be. Bro I mean, it's either that or the same demons that got Tucker Carlson in his sleep How strong is his jaw? Is it like the fucking gorilla's jaw? Or someone walking in there and hitting him with a bag in the mou? Over a bunch of ys, I think you can pretty easily like crack a tooth by grinding your toetoth. But the tooth was intact. It was a tooth. It was just a tooth. I'm looking at a tooth. Actually, yeah Like it just his body was just I don't know if it was a smaller. It was in scissor, whatever the forion is called. I have no idea. What is that gonna do for you also? Knowing which tooth it was. Which tooth was it? Oh. makes so much fun. It wasn't one of his front tooth though. likeike you could hide it. it was one of the back ones. Maybe it was a molar, but it popped out and usually you're like, oh shit, I should go to the dentist because I'm probably dying. That's what I would think. And then he just put in his sock draer and he went back to sleep And then we never really talked about it until now Now he's going to see this thing and he's going to remember like Yeah, you're f missing the doctor. Yeahah. Oh, shit. Yeah need to get that out of my sock drraum and put it back. Oh fuck. Yeah. Where's that thing? We kept it though We kept it. My parents to keep our teeth Do Y parents do that? Is that American thing or British thing? I think that's a British thing. they kept your teeth. yeah, because our teeth look like cigarettes. Yeah, yeah, you guys have crazy teeth For it's crazy how some of the like the stereotypes, like I heard someone from someone from Europe was like I saw TikTok of being like walking around an American airport and it's like This is like insane. Like everyone just like looks what you think in America was like an overweight person with shake shack in their hand or something like that. But then the UK thing is like, o, they got bad teeth and bees on toast or whatever. First of all, bees on toast, low key, I like it. H tei Hiki though Teether Not that I have. best teeth in the world. they got some stuff going on over there for sure.. What is that? Is that just like? I don't know. We've got nationalized healthcare. So I think the fact that You can get the number one reason for bankruptcy in America is medical bills is like fucking insane. I don't pay it Easy. boom, not paned I think I think that's how you go bankrupt I'm not, but you're not getting the money from me. Where you getting it But then do they not come and take stuff from you? like your house and your dog My dog People are getting murdered if they try to take my dog dude The shotgun blast is coming through the fucking door. You're not gonna to get in here. Okay I can see the diplomacy that has gotten you through your career so far But He's snapping your sister and kicking a door down and It's passion. It's passion. dude. It's my passion When you going ambion without direction.. When I'm got an Academy A awward I can shoot everybody I want in the face. No, no, no. I mean yeah, some of the medical bills are just insane. the dental thing, I don't get because we have free dental. Yeah. So everybody goes to get their teeth looked after. Maybe the dentists in the UK are not good. there' be a dentist listening that'll say, Well actually it's because of maybe it's just, you know Where you are in the world? I have no idea. shit weather gives you bad teeth? I don't know Ses I'm fucking weir Jared You you ever considered that you might have a drinking problem I don't consider a lot, Chris Well, you drank an entire case of athletic burwincool last night non alcoholic That's not a problem. Sorry, man. I just kept chugging waiting for the regret to creep in. neverever happened See, most people, like Jared, don't want to change what they drink. They just don't want the next day to be a complete write offff. And that is why I'm such a huge fan of Athletic brewing Cke. They make the best NA brews on the planet You can find Athletic Brewing Co's best selling lineup at grocery or liquor stores near you or best option, get a full variety pack of four flavors shipped direct to your door. Right now, get fifteen percent off your first online order by going to the link in the description below or heading to athleticbrewing. com slash modern wisdom using the code mododern wisdom. a check out that That's athleticrewingot com slash modernisom. A modern wisd Check out. Nebia T terms and conditions apply athletic Bwing Company, fit for all times Bottoms up So You said You've got these sort of two sides of your brain that are working You've got business side and then you've got the creativity side How do you the creative side of your brain when the business side never stops demanding attention Fortunately for me, I don't really need to do that. for a long time. What? You did have to do both of those things No, what I'm saying, I don't have to separate them. Okay. Like I can be creative and that helps my business Um, I'm not good at multitasking. so like if I Like if I'm as much as I will be like, I'm listening when I'm texting someone and someone's talking to me, I can I can't even hear anything. And I have this thing too with like noise, like I think it's called misophonia, but it's like If there's like a couple of sounds going on, I just can't That's so distracting. That's me too. I can't read un say I just thought yeah, I thought that was being an only being an autistic only child again. It could be. I don't know, but I mean someone get when there's noises going on, you're super easily distracted and you can't focus. It would really bother like certain noises like really bother me. N not certain specific noises, but when they're like If the TV is on and someone's phone is playing like a video really loud, like I can't even focus or if I'm watching a movie and the AC is on even, I like I gotta shut it off. Like I can't Like I just can't like focus. The reason why I say that is because If I had to separate those two things, I don't really think I could. I have worked normal jobs before, obviously. and once the The creative thing is so intense with me that there are times where I had an idea one time for an app I don't even know what's going on. I don't know I didn't actually want to do it, but sometimes when an ideal will pop into my head and I have to flush it out right now. and And I sent it to Greg and he's like, this is the dumb thing I've ever seen And I was like, yeah, I just needed to get it off But I was driving to the gym And I had this idea and I was like, oh, that sounds like a good idea. Like I'm going to start whatever. And I was like in my car doing it. And then I got so distracted. I like, I have to go home so that I could finish this. So I left and I went home And I didn't even get into the gym. I just turned my car around I went home. And I typed this whole thing out, and I was like, yeo, and I sent it to Greg. And I was like, what do you think about this? He's like so stupid. And I'm like, cool, I'm going to the gym. Go back to the gym. But that's how intense it is for me. Like I can't multitask and feel like like once I'm creatively inspired by something, like it has to happen now There are so many times where I don't know how this happens, but I'll wake up first thing and write like a joke or something I wrote most of my set for MSG that I did at MSG That time waking up and being like, oh I don't even know what that's about. because it wasn't about necessarily about my dream. Okay. line between sleeping and waking, I can give you at least a bit of science that might explain it. Oh, love this. So the brain wave that you want to get into when you're in flow state is one step away from what you're in when you're sleeping So a lot of engineers throughout history wouldeliece Nobel Prize winners would sit on seats. with ball bearings or something metal in their hand over a plate and they'd be thinking about an idea, but they'd be relaxing and they'd have their eyes closed. And as they were drifting off and drifting off and drifting off, and then their hand would open as they fell asleep and they'd drop the loud thing into the plate and it would clang and then they would get up try and work on the problem. Fucking no way No That makes so much sense. It's how a bunch of the biggest problems in science have been solved. Dam I'm gonna start paying attention in the fucking morning now. Well, there's another So the guys from Flow Research Collective who work on the science of flow. They try to engineer people to get into flow states more easily. The number one hack, the easiest hack for anybody to get into flow Begin working within thirty seconds of waking up That is fascinating to me 'causeuse that's literally like I had no explanation for it because I don't even remember the dream that I had, but I woke up and I immediately had joke Like I don't I would write it down. Do you think you'd have gone to bed thinking about maybe something to do with MSG? Like it would have been a part of your evening? Maybe. Or it's just in the back of your. What you care about it. What you're doing you're allowing your subconscious to come through at least a little bit. But yeah, that line between sleeping and waking, if you' strugging with an idea. I mean, that's why people say all the cliches are kind of true, which is sleep on it leep on it, sleep on it.' how you feel in the mor A lot of the time, you've consolidated your memories and your thoughts from Yesterday, Last night and now it's the morning and you've kind of got it in a new perspective Wh you using science, dude? Honestly, that is fascinating. I'm stealing that. takeake it What was I gonna ask? There's a line that I fucking love, which is you can't white knuckle creativity. that I think when you try and force it It almost never comes out. like your best ideas, your best jokes. Have you ever, can you ever remember a time when you've tried to really force piece of creativity and it's come through because for me, it never happens. No, It's like an erection. The harder you try for it, the more it runs away runs away. It does run away from me. It's a good metaphor. Yeah, I am horrible at that, especially like It's like, okay, I'm going to setide time and I'm going to do creative. I can't do it. withithout someone's help I think that Greg's probably better at that because we work like creatively on a lot of things, but He's he's also very good at like, Ding me L if I can get a prompt O I can get like something like a seed of an idea. thenm I'm in and I can we can start doing this right now Um For me to go from zero to a creative thought Like that's always been very difficult for me. Ring is Riffing is significantly easier. Insanely Yeah. insanely. Yeah, that is better. have never been in a writer's room really for much, but For Newtonic, we do skits and sketches and stuff for the different ads and new flavor releases and things like that. And then we've done some for my tour announcements and I didn't realize that what we were doing was sitting in a wrider' room R I'm aware that this has been done for like fucking a hundred years. And people realize that if you come in with an idea and you have a bunch of people who are all working on the same thing at the same time, you go, why don't we no, no. Well, what if we and you bounce that around? It doesn't just need to be constrained to people that are making movies R and be anybody in a team. like let's just come in with some ideas and Talk about what the fuck's going on. And if you've got one person that's at least a bit diligent person who's got a shit ton of creativity kind of gets jumping off points. because I don't know about you, but I get really excitable and enthusiastic when stuff like that. I like o oh, yeah, yeah. and And then, but it does need that and it's like rolling a boulder down a hill. just needs that push to start I'm really bad at pushing it. I'm really fucking good at rolling down a hill. Yeah. and sometimes all it takes is a question Or like even the worst idea I've ever heard to be like, no, this. L it's like I just can't go from zero to one hundred Like no, it's zero to one. zero to one. Yeahah, Yeahah, definitely. And then one to one hundred pace piss. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Like it's just it's one of those things that like I just need to be sort of prompted or whatever because I I can like kind of put things O Part of that, I think is kind of like, I When there's pressure, I feel like I can perform And I like if there's pressure, like I'd rather that be on me because I feel like, okay, I' We're going to live I'll I can live and die by like My decisions or whatever I just need that like that little push Like if it's up to me, like it's all through school or whatever, like I'm up the night before like finishing things and whatever. Like I can't get ahead of it because I don't know. like I mean, I think this is a horrible like way to be. like you could stack things and kind of get ahead on those things. like now it's different. I mean professionally it's a little easier to like I've had a lot of practice, but it's not natural to me. I've had to work at it like very I've had to work on it a lot to get to the point where I can come up with like ideas out of thin air I would say an overwhelming majority of any sort of creative decision or thing that I've ever made in my life has come like out of nowhere. like it kind of just enters your brain. But if we're like having a conversation about U, you know, we're we're doing the new tour at the end of the year and it's like, well, we have to create a brand new show and I won't Just do that. I have to have be like, so We need a new show. Here's what I was thinking, like an idea. like what do you think about this as an idea And then magically, I'll have four ideas and then I'll be able to be like, okay, you know, whatever. like I need like that is where I unlocks ideas that are probably in there, but I can't conversation for some reason. Also Greg and Frank love to say that, well, everyone, they love to say that like there is Sometimes they'll have an idea and then a week later, I'll say their idea and act like it's mine. And they're like, Ohh yeah, no, no one said that. No big deal. I'm like, wait whats said that becausecause I'm like when someone says something, I'm like, okay, I'm like really taking it in. And I can't do two things at once. So I'm like walking around with it and not actively thinking about it, but like It's there. So by the time it comes back, I've already forgotten the origin. and it's like I've just been lost in the idea or something. and now it just comes out and people are like, yeah fucking said that. I'm like Okay, sorry. It's a great idea. yeah you guys sorry Yeah Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take the work seriously Absolutely. I mean, that's it's similar to what I was saying before where you have to be humble. L don't take yoursel too seriously. I mean, especially me at the end of the day, like, the fuck am I doing changing lives here. Like I'm trying to be funny, trying to be entertaining. I'm doing a podcast with my friend that I've known the longest And I have like a very you know, it's demanding, but like it's a fun job ultimately. And like my job is to have fun and I do take it very seriously, especially at this point because I think that a lot of people from what I've seen, like our fans, they get a lot a lot from it. It helps them escape things. I don't necessarily feel that part because that's hard to imagine that I could be that for someone, even though I can very much imagine other people being that for me. I can't imagine that Uh So I take it very seriously because I want to earn it. I want to be good at something. I want other people in the space to respect the things that I've done and the approach and those sort of things, but at the same time I'm not over here like, ye changing the world or I'm doing whatever And I don't know that I'll ever have that to be honest with you. I mean, I just don't I don't think that helps anybody to takeake yourself super seriously and act like you know just arrogant about their decisions, like even when you get the thing that you've been working for for so long Like now's not the time to be like, I fucking told you. because that also feels like, did you do that in spite of someone? Like I'm not doing anything in spite of somebody or because I'm insecure and I need to appear a certain way to other people, like this is for me. I want to do it. And I enjoy doing it. That's my motivation. Like I'm trying to just enjoy my life and I'm trying to helpel as many people as I can. truly, like that's truly what I'm trying to do. That's it And it's very simple and I'm completely content in that. and I'll try to find new ways to do that I believe that I can find new ways to do that And that's it. And it's very also very important for me to make sure that everyone is happy while we're doing it because Our job is to have fun and to U entertain other people. But in order to do that, you need to be happappy Right? I can't have you be disgruntled I can't have you feel like and also Like my company, the things that the way that I run things, like you're not going to miss a birthday or you're not going miss your your your marriage isn't going to go by the wayside because of me. Like Im that's not going to happen. Likere we're very flexible at what time No one's late to shit that I have to do. L you can't be late to things. I mean, I was late today But that was like a that was a time zone thing. That wasn't like a respect thing. My eyes just kept getting wider and wider.. But like like no one could be like late for stuff. like we'll get it done, whatever. But you know, there's people who have children and it's likere you're there for the morning, you're there for, you know, the evening. and we have a very loose like a work schedule And I want that. I want there to be this balance. I do see my job as an extension of me, but it's a completely different part of my life. My personal life is very important to me. and I truly like Lve A great life. I have like a great social life and friends and I like to go out and stuff like that. And I do enjoy my job as well, but it feels like two separate worlds in a way It's rareind us too. It's rare that I would get around people Like I really wouldn't enjoy, I don't think Hanging out with people and the and when I hang out with them, We're always talking about casting or you know just something that I'm doing at work because I'd be like, bro, I just like I'm just not interested in it that much, to be honest with you. likeike I'm interested in it when I'm doing it. I can't do it when I'm kind of like, We can acknowledge that I have a job that does that or whatever, but like I'm just not interested in it that much. I don't really watch a lot of podcasts. I don't watch any real YouTubers like or anything like that It's just not what I'm into. Like I just have like a normal life and I do this thing on the side. That's kind of like what it feels like. I always think about MMA fighters kind of friends with a couple, but no one' super, super high level. But if you were friends with fucking Sewn Strickland or whate and A actuallyually Sean's a bad example because he's an insane. Who's a really normal person that happens to be a super high level Justinoro, yeah, perfect example. like Michael Chandler, someone like that, like just normal dudes that happened, if they didn't wear things that showed off the fact that they're fucking animals. And then you You're such a normal guy Except for this bit of your life. Right. And then in this one area, if I put you in a very specific situation, Y the most abnormal person on the planet And I guess it's kind of fucking porn star or something. You're like, hey, in this one scenario. Yeah, things are kind of extreme. And outside of that probably just a normal fucking dude. Yeah. And It's Like that much is obvious that like I'm not over here like, I'm just a normal guy. L my life is not fucking outrageous or anything. but I there is a definite feel of like these things are separate and it's important for me to have that and to make sure that everyone is has a flexible schedule, I think that's the ultimate dream, right? You want to be able to at least for me and the people that I've hired and keep around me is like, we want to be creative We want to be able to see our families and have freedom to do c things. And I also encourage anybody that works for me or does whatever to if you have your own creative thing that you want to do, I'm in full support of that. And if we can help in some sort of way, we will and I just My job is a lot easier if everyone's happy So I try to keep people as happy as possible likeike Of course, there's times we have to like sort of reel that in a little bit For the most part, it's like this needs to be a good experience. When we go on tour, like we're not staying in like just this like the cheapest hotel I'm trying to like book a really cool Airbnb or something that has like a pool and a cool view or whatever because I want people to feel like We're all going to look back on this thing in our life. This is not a normal thing. like no one gets to do this. This is very abnormal. And I want people to look back on it and feel like that was such a great time in my life. Like I know that I will look back on some of those pictures And now we have all these memories attached to them. Not just the fact that like, oh my God, that was so cool that we were able to do that when we were younger. but also like, oh, do you remember when we went and did this thing too? and when we were blah blah blah, we tried to go to all these cities and do something fun and try to get it on camera or like there's photos and things like that. L I want it to be something that you can look back on like super fondly. You know what I mean? So That is very important to me. I do enjoy being able to think about that, which is an absolute like luxury that I even get to do that because a lot of people who are in charge of something, they don't they can't shareholders or whatever, and it's just about the numbers. It's just me That's like that, you know what I mean? So it's like, I just have to make sure everyone's super happy and we're all being creative How else do you think about engineering fun a lot of people A lot of people take the work seriously. but it can cause them to become quite rigid. it can cause everything to become It can go from seririous to stern If that makes sense, and they're not loose and flowy and not actually finding time to enjoy this process. They're very very focused on the outcome, kind of the cost of getting there. Yeah How do you think about engineering fun? So it's not sternness when you're doing? your work I think that the only way it can can become stern is if you' trying to manufacture it Like if you're trying, like we're gonna have fun. It's like fuck, that's not how you do it. You know, like I'm happy right now. I swear and it's like you're not like Do the things that make you happy, like follow the excitement, like do those things. If it doesn't resonate with you and it doesn't feel like in line with what you want to do, even if it's good money or whatever, like I will say no What's the biggest opportunity that you've ever turned down I mean, I turned down doing the tour for a number of years because at that point, a lot of people were like, you could just go on stage and talk to each other and then you could make a bunch of money doing that. And I'm like, that's just not no, that's not cool. Like I'm not doing that. and I don't care likeike I don't care at it. There was a time, I remember specifically When I was doing YouTube U There was a brand deal that came in for seventy five thousand dollars and what they wanted was for me to and this was kind of abnormal at the time to promote a Pone game That was like something with zombies. I was like But they wanted, which I was okay with doing, but I always did advertisements at the very end of my video U, and that's the way I did things because I was like, the product needs to be there. I mean People are gonna to shut it off, but like, whatever, I'm going to st true to that because I'm building something here. But they wanted me to put it in the first like thirty seconds or a minute And that's why they were paying seventy five thousand dollars. And I was like, I'm not doing that I'm not doing that. Ands there's been O deals. I mean, it happens a lot. There's There's been six figure deals that I'm like, no doing that becausecause I don't want to do because the brand wasn't aligned. Or it's like they just want me to do something that I'm not comfortable doing that I'm just like, no Like, I won' Why would I do that Especially Imost I'm almost offended that and used to be worse My agent one time. I was I was I did this thing with the rock So Okay This is a good example actually with this I got hit up through my email from the Rcks team and he was starting his YouTube channel at the time. This was a while ago And they were going to do this, u, this series called Rock the Promo where they would have wrestlers kind of like guest host and then they would have like you know, just people who wanted to be whatever, they would like cut promos. they would like have a character. a good idea. Yeah, so that's that was on the YouTube channel. They asked me to host it to be the guy that hosts and then does like color color commentary. And I was like, oh my Godd, that's awesome. They're like, yeah, it's the rock and like the finale,ll you'll be with him and you guys will do it together And I was like, this is awesome And they're like, yeah, it's filming in LA and we'll need you there for like two weeks or whatever. And I was like, Oh, forget it. No Like I'm not doing that because they didn't want to go that. I I I was making YouTube videos and I was doing my podcast at the time, which wasn't like super successful or anything. but I like had a schedule and I liked that and I liked my life. You're asking me to go there for two weeks. It also at the time, didn't pay a lot, but that didn't really matter because it could have been whatever. I mean, unless it was like life changing, then I would have been like, I, fuck all this, I'm going. because I didn't have a lot of money at that time. but was like no, I can't like I'm not doing that. Apparently He really wanted me to do it. so they moved the recording to New York And we recorded it. in New York. And then the part that's funny is like, this is why I'm saying like it used to be worse because When someone tries to incentivize me with money It bothers me like crazy If they like you think that you could have bought me with that. It's like, all right, I want you to do this. I'm like, I don't want to do that. It's, All right, what if we give you this money? It's like, what do you think of me that you can buy me into like I just said I don't want to do it. You know what I mean? Like it won't be about the money So in this situation, it was funny. The thing that I hated also back then was like, you go into a meeting and people start name dropping like, yeah, we work with this and this and this. And I'm like, I don't care Why do I care? Like let's talk about the thing that we're doing. Is it going to be good? Can you be helpful or can I be helpful even And on the set of by the way, amazing thing with the Rcks team. and I eventually met him and Well, that's aool story that I should tell you. onns set the the PA there was like Saying something And then she's like, oh, yeah, u She like mention someone's name And then she was like, Oh, and I was like, well, I was like, what was that She's just like, oh, your agent was like try not to name drop because that bothers you. And I was like, Ohh God, what if I t I was like, what is this roster that had reputation for seeing. Yeah, I was like, oh my Godd. I'm like, it's not that bad. I'm like not definitely not in this sort of situation because You know, I was just happy to be there Um The rock dude. was the nicest guy in my experience, like, I hadn't had any back and forth with him at all during this thing and then The finale of this thing was filming in Vegas. and he was going to be there. He was flying from Hawaii, filming One of the dumanjis, I guess and coming back, doing this thing, then going to host to mrter Olympia, whatever the fuck and then going back to Hai in one day psychotic On the way over to Vegas, I'm like on the plane and I'm by myself, so I'm like I'm just gonna kill someim. I'm gonna to write a sketch and then I'm going send it to his producer because I had his email And I'm like, oh, if the rock wants to be on my YouTube channel, like here's, you know, whatever. So I wrote this thing out And I sent it to his producer Never heard anything to set And he shows up eventually. And everyone's like crowding him, you know, whatever. and I'm kind of like I'm like nervous becausecause I'm like, okay, I can't fuck this up. Like I had some lines that I had to, whatever and I was like hosting this thing He comes up to me. The nicest guy in the world. Like like we're boys. like the guy by the end of the shoot Like we were joking around in between takes, the directors like, all right, fucking stop. Like it was kind of like that. Like, come on, we gota fucking we got time or whatever Like we were just joking around The guy who was doing the lighting on the set was like, how long have you guys known each other? I'm like, I just fucking met that guy. He's like, what? I thought you guys were friends for years. Like he was super nice to me At the end of the shoot He comes up to me and he goes, U I know you sent that script, but you know, and I was like what the fuck is he talking about? I had forgotten. I was already like, this is an amazing experience. So I was like, the fuck is he talking about some script And he's like, I can't do the script, but what do you say we just like improv likeike a scene And And I was like, okay, And he's like, what do you want the scene to be? I was like, okay, why don't we just have like an argument that You know, I wasn't your like first or second choice to be host, and I'll just get offended by that. And at the end, you'll just give me a rock bottom. And he was like, all right, cool So then they turn the cameras on and we just improv the scene one take and I put it out. And like there's a video on my YouTube channel where do we watch get that? And you get that I want to see you get getting rock bottom. E you could find it. It cuts in the middle. I didn't like hit the deck I would have liked to I did get a diamond cutter though one time What's that? From DDP, Diamond Dallis Page. He's like a wrestler The job that me and Greg like used we met at, we used to work for this company, Eie Daily, he came in to shoot like a video And we all were just like, Yo, can you give us a diamond cutter because it was like that we had, so he was just diamond cutting everyone in the hms There he is. It was a different time. Don't judge the tightness of my pants Hey, listen, man, I just want to thank you for doing such a great job the. I really appreciate being like your first round director for this and really That means a lot to me. Oh, hey, no problem. I don't know first round, what first round? You mean like my first choice? Yeah Yeahah. you weren't quite my first choice, but hey,, hold on. Hey, timee out. hold on, no, no, no. So I wasn't your first choice. So they lied to me. You guys lied to me, greatreat. becausecause I was told I was first round. Wh who was first chice? Hey was it was Kevin Hurt? I know you guys are like, basically dating now. you're hanging out all the time on Instagram. You you see come down.. I'll.. Please relax. Se ch place is fine. over. I'm cool'silver. were't first choice Okay. Okay. finey. All right, come on. I'm we' in second choice. I wasn't second choice. So now I'm not second choice No, you're not a second choice either. Listen. I' get over lie to you, okay, but listen, you weren't first choice, but you're a great choice. right? How about that? Yeah, that's something you tell losers.u? Okay. Listen Okay, Bone, I'm on the podum, whatever. I appreciate it. Thanks. What's the matter? Third place is's fine. This is cool. whatever. right. Well here's truth. Why you're being an assole right now? You weren't first, you weren't second, you weren't third. o, here's third. rightight here's here, and you were way the fuck Okay, That's where you were. But it's cool dude 'use you did a great job. That's unfuckingbelievable. You have sunballs in front of all these people just to say some shit like that to get angry like that for time I'm all the way in the fucking corner with the dirt. There's dust and shit. No, you've been sucking dick for beer money for ten years. I not. That is notat talk I' never sucked any dicks for beer money. ever the whole life. I know, but it's between. Not one dick stopping. Now and how do you know that? How'd you just think that grateful? How do you know people even suck dick for beer money? I'm grateful, okay? Okay, yeah, I'm grateful. For movie tickets. How many times? I remember? Zero times. Stop it. Yeah. How many times you go, Yeahah, I'll get a tickets somebody You want to go to my premiere? It's gonna be awome. I'm like ye, I'm down. and I get there and you're like, and people are like, No, I don't know the fuck you arere on this list. Very nice of you. Very nice. Did you have a good time on the show? huh? It was nice. Okay? I did. All right. It was good come on buddy. Okay, I'm sor Thank Jesus. Thank you really preachhing get in here. But. It was it was it was It was a lot of fun But that was such a crazy thing and that was like very early on in my like career doing this too. So it was like a cool opportunity. Looking back on it I do have regrets of being like, Nope, not going to go to LA. ' like, who are you? to say that you're not going to go to LA I give myself some grace because I do think that like, especially at that time, I was like protecting myself. L I really wanted to Uh I felt very strongly about the authenticity thing. and I'm like, I have to just do the things that I think are right in this moment. and I'll probably be wrong. I mean, even decisions that I make today, probably look back on and be like, I would have done that differently. But I but you can't You can't like beat yourself up about that. Like that maybe that was the right choice for that time. How do you know the difference between being authentic and impulsive? I think that I did I don't think I did. I mean, I like to think that I'm not you know, mean I could make a rash decision like that and go, well, that felt authentic or that feels authentic to me But it's actually maybe a decision that you haven't been sufficiently considerate around Sure. I think that I make an effort to not make emotional decisions. So if I'm very angry And I would like to say no. I'm like, I got to walk away from this. so that I can can make a decision, not based on that. So I think that's a helpful thing Um like through therapy is like emotional decision making I think I mean, it can be good to b. it can work out, but also you can liifve to regret that because you're like, oh, I made that when I was not in the clearest headspace or I did that in spite of something. Like that's also a thing that I desperately try not to do. Like I don't want to do anything in spite of something. Like I want to do torove someone else or something else. Yeah, like that would that would just be likeike an insecurity thing. Like I'm trying to be a secure person, which I consider myself like a secure person, especially when it comes to like creative stuff like that. L off course I have moments of insecurity. but when it comes to decision making, I need to be in a point and give myself some credit for like, you've You've made it this far following your gut and your intuition. so Just make a call. And if you're wrong, which I've been wrong many times, it's my fault. fine But what I can't live with is someone like like an agent or something being like, this is the thing for you. This is what you have to do. And then I end up doing that and I don't like it and it doesn't work out Beause a lot of stuff now doesn't work out for people like creatively, like shit doesn't work all the time. Like that's part of the job kind of But like If it was on them, I'd be furious because then it would feel like, oh my God, I like I let it go for a second. I let go of the reins and I let someone dictate You know, and I my failure. Yeah, like I can't even My failure is that I let you make the decision almost, you know Like there's a The word that's coming to mind is conviction doing something with conviction. Yeah, and both me and George big nose, sneezes a lot U Oh The theme for twenty twenty six is highigh cononviction We both want to be more high conviction with things. So that's when I have a sense that this is the right thing commit to that thing. Yeah. and It is way better to be high conviction and fail that low conviction and fail wayay better. Yeah. because at least when your high conviction and fail, you get to learn, you get to update, you get to, oh, I'm fine. Okaykay. I went for that nextext time when I go for it again do it slightly differently, or I'll go for something else But the low conviction failure thing, you're not even moving just being sort of swept along. You're not learning decision making. And that's again, it's that sliding versus deciding thing. Yeah. But no point did you decide for this happen. Yeah You just sort of fell into it. I also want to make it clear that I don't think that I'm just right. Like I think I'm like it's not that I think I'm right. It's like I think actually, maybe that is what I'm trying to say is that If I believe that I'm right, then I'm like, okay, but I don't think you're wrong Like I think you're right too And I think everyone is right. And I think you need to trust yourself. like your intuition, if you can really sit with yourself and you know yourself and you're sitting there like, this is the thing. You're right. Like you're right. Just believe that you're right. And just keep following that Like allow yourself to make mistakes, allow yourself to believe in yourself and allow the belief to dictate your behavior. L you'll be surprised where that could bring you. It just like drags you along when you can really be like, This is what feels like the right decision in this moment. It doesn't even have to be professionally. It could be like personally or whatever If you are sitting somewhere and you know like, okay, I don't want to make an emotional decision and you have that awareness and you're like, I just need to do what's best for me what I truly believe in my heart You're right. L you have to be right because it's you, it's your life. L you're in charge of everything. L it's your life. You'll make the decisions. Everything is your fault. Everything that goes wrong is your fault. But what that means is that Everything that you get out of life is because of you too, and you should be happy for the good things in your life. And that can get hard because when things start going bad, you're like, I'm fucking my shit up right now It makes the winds like that much sweeter. I think than when can get to the point where one time. it only needs to happen one time where you like really feel deeply about something and then it ends up being right and you get the validation or it's correct and you get that from the situation. you realize that you can do that Like that is a huge moment. Like I can feel something so deeply and then that's how I made my decision and then it ended up being the right path. That's so powerful inststead of overthinking, stopping yourself, which a lot of people do, overthinking it and being like no, because of this and this and whatever. Like just what is the thing you feel? It's like make it simpler. And this is why like the authenticity thing, I think is important because what what is it just driving you? and it seems very almost like selfish in a way But it's like it's further back than that. It's not a self serving thing. It's like I it's just something I just believe, like it's a belief in me that I just need to see play out without being, by the way Um, I don't even know the right word. but just like in like a negative way, like I need to get my way because I'm not that person whatsoever. There's a belief though that I'm like, I just believe that I'm right. And I can be wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that I believed And I get to a point and I'm okay with being wrong because That's fine. The only thing that I need is to believe something I've said that there a thousand times already. But like it's true.ike that's kind of how I feel about all the decisions or every single opinion that I have I need to believe all my opinions. I don't have any opinions that I'm kind of like, o, I don't know, or I kind of like if I've spent time with it and I have an opinion, like I have an opinion And and I believe in it and I will like fight for it. But if you say something that completely destroys my shit, my shit is gone I'm not I have no ego. I can get rid of it I'll keep this one now you know, like I'm so willing to learn and U and to grow. like I want that I welcome that. I want to be wrong Like I want to be wrong. Like I need to believe that I'm right, but I actually want to be wrong I actually do because then that's where the growth comes. Like now' now I can get better You know, like actually doing good like I don't think that A lot of people just want to live in a comfort zone They just want to live in a space that makes them That just validates them completely all the time and they it's whatever. not all people, but like some people want to live in there. I actually don't believe that Having comfort every single day of your life will result in some sort of net positive. I think that it's only a matter of time would you get like restless and you'll like create a problem because you don't have any problems At least for me and I don't know this to be right. I'm just some idiot It almost feels like we're humans are not designed that way. L you need purpose and part of purpose is challenge. like you need something to challenge you. But if you're actions are just putting you back in your comfort zone What do you get? likeike you're setting yourself up to fail almost. Not only you're not growing, forget about that thing that feels very innate of challenges and purpose of being a human being or whatever, whatever that may mean. It's different for everybody If you don't have that, it's like, where do you think you're going? Like that's going to deteriorate your mental health almost. You're done, you've already done everything and now you're just gonna You're you're just done You know, like a part of me doesn't understand why There are people who work on Wall Street that make fucking eighty million dollars a year And they work eighty hours a week Still, And it's like, bro, you got fucking two hundred fifty million dollars in the bank do something else. Like, but part of me does get it Part of me does get why there is that 'causeuse it's like I don't know. that I have like a weird relationship with it because I do understand the feeling of like It's not necessarily about the money anymore, but I also think that like a work life balance is very important. I'm not working super hard to have two hundred fifty million dollars. I don't care I don't about having two hundred fifty million dollars I want to enjoy my life You know, like I don't want to like work my entire life and then be and then payoff is things that I could be doing now Like you want to you want to hang out with your friends? you want to You know, see your family or spend time you can You can You're going sacrifice your entire life all these years to what? The end goal is like, well, now I can sit back and relax and just Enjoy my time. Rather you could do it now. Have you ever heard the parable of the Mexican fishermen? you heard this He's Mexican in this one? I thought he was from a different country honestly . I don't know. it could have been I don't know. Okay. An American investment banker was at a small pier on a small coastal town, village, when a small boat with just one fisherman docked. Inside the small boat was several large yellow finin tuna The American complimented the Mexican on the quality of his face and asked how long it took him to catch them The Mexican replied, onlynly a little while The American then asked, Why didn't you stay out longer and catch more fish Mexicans said he had enough to support his family's immediate needs The American then asked But what do you do with the rest of your time The Mexican fisherman said, I sleep late, fish a little, play with my children, take siestters with my wife, Maria, and stroll into the village every evening where I sip wine and play guitar with my amigos. I have a full and busy life The American scoffed. I have an MBA from Harvard and can help you, he said You should spend more time fishing, with the proceeds, buy a bigger boat. With the proceeds from the bigger boat, you could buy several boats and eventually you would have a fleet of fishing boats Instead of selling your catch to a middleman you could sell directly to the processor and eventually open up your own cannery. You could control the product, processing, and distribution, you said Of course, you would need to leave this small coastal fishing village and move to Mexico City, and then Los Angeles and eventually to New York City, where you will run your expanding enterprise The Mexican fisherman ask But how long will all this take? to which the American replied, ' Oh fifteen to twenty years or so But what then Ased the Mexican The American laughed and said that's the best part When the time was right, you would announce an IPO. you could sell your company's stock to the public and become very rich, you would make millions Millions Then what The Americans said, then you could retire, move to a small coastal fishing village where you could sleep late, fish a little, play with your kids, takeake cestters with your wife and swl to the village in the evenings, where you could sip wine and play guitar with your amigos Life is often simpler than we make. Yeah, dude. I mean, that's great. That's exactly what I'm saying Like that's that's so true. Like I think that it's tough. like a lot of people sometimes they their identity becomes their job I'm very self aware about that I don't want that especially I think that would make me unlikable if my job and u some sort of the followers and doing live shows and already, sometimes people are probably like a person probably sucks. like they think they're a man or whatever. Like I separate these things because they're completely different. I just want to enjoy my life. Like I'm already, it's already good enough. That doesn't slow me down because I have passions and things that I want to accomplish, but I will never sacrifice. the things that actually matter in my life like I'm not going to miss a birthday. I was gonna say, what matters? What matters is What matters is making sure that I'm being a good person, dude. Like honestly, like I just want people When I pass away to be like, that was a good dude. And like that's pretty much the extent of it Like I just want that. And I and I ideally that would come from you know, the like everybody I want to be as helpful as I can. I do want to make an impact in some sort of way I really just like I just want to be a good dude. and I just want to earn things because I think that makes me feel good to know that I'm putting work in and trying to earn something and I'm getting things back from it. that feels like a really cool exchange But I really just want to be a good dude. And I think There's also this, uh this notion online where it's like If you're if you're twenty years old and you're not fucking dropshipping and you're not fucking like into crypto and fucking wearing blue tinted glasses that like you're a fucking loser don't think it's Your life isn't a lambo, dude. This isn't the end all be all. It' like the Lambo that everyone's like, I'm gonna get some money then'll buy ambat. It's like, you don't need to do that Like I do think like, I don't want to say that like You know, some people who are very successful willll just be like, oh, well money isn't won't make you happy. I think that's insane. to say that. Like of course it will make you happy haaving financial security is a massive weight off your shoulders. So that already is like That trumps everything. like the argument of like it won't make you happy. I get what people are saying when they say that. It's not like you could buy your way to happiness. It's like, well, I bought a plane I got cars and whatever. It's like, yeah, but you're still fucked up emotionally because you haven't really spent time doing that and you haven't really seen your family and you know, you worked all this you worked this long for what? For things for like you know, a u the number in your bank account to be higher, you're like missing the point, in my opinion Like Me, I Like I said, I'm a very social dude. I like making new friends. I like learning new things. I like traveling and getting out in the world and putting myself in uncomfortable situations. That's the only way that I feel like I am growing and I'm obsessed with that. I'm obsessed with growth and just learning about what the world has to offer. like and everyone has something to offer You know, like I and I I wish I could know it all. I wish I could to meet everybody and have a conversation with them. and You know, I'm the type of person that randomly I'll be in a deep conversation with just like a fucking stranger. Like because I enjoy that. I like hearing I tell I always tell Greg like one of my dream jobs is to be a bartender in like a slow You know, so like could just like you can get to know your regulars and like that just seems like a very like Nice thing to to and not Like I really think that It's a nice thing to be able to sit down and talk to someone and like feel that sense of community. Like that's the best, dude. Like that's the best. I saw a video recently on TikTok. where this guy was like interviewing people and he found this old woman and she was talking about Hubs and how they're like the greatest thing in the world. And she's like, you just go to your local pub and She's like, I feel like people don't do this anymore. Like you go to your local pub and you know, you talk to the people in there about like your problems at your job or your relationship and you talk to the bartender and they sometimes they give advice and it's bad advice or good advice, but that sense of community, it's like a place you can go. Like I'm obsessed with stuff like that. Like I love that. And I also love how there's different versions of that. You can never know everything. Everything changes, Eone's different and everyone's right. I believe like everyone's right. If they believe they're right, then they are I think that I'm right for me but not for you. if that makes sense. And I think that's sort of fascinating to me. So I I want to get out there and I want to experience all that and I want to feel uncomfortable because Again, that I get so much from that. It feels very rewarding And I did make the mistake when Beause I wasn't always like that I grew up in a neighborhood a story of Queens where if everything that you want is there basasically, at least it was for me. And I had a lot of friends in the neighborhood and, you know, whatever. and would barely even go into Manhattan to like hang out or go to a bar. Like it's just like, I'm just going to stay here, whatever. But something in me shifted and I was like, I want to see more things. And once that started happening and I started traveling, I was like first time that I I took a flight from Paris to Mkinos And I was just looking out the window and it was like, oh my God The world is like massive, as stupid as this sounds. By the way, this was like Seven years ago Um But I was like the world is massive And there's so much out there That like, you can see pictures of it but it's like the pictures aren't gonna do it justice, dude. Like get out there and see it The world is so cool. and there's so many cool people. likeike, The idea, like a fantasy of just going to some random small town in Ireland and walking into a pub and making a friend is like the greatest thing in the world to me and like just And like now you're so lucky because you live in a time where like you could keep in touch with that guy if you wanted to You know what I mean? Like, that's such a cool thing to me It's like, now you got a friend in fuck in Ireland, across the water Like it's like I don't know. things like that are fascinating. I actually think that is the point. L that's the point And the job is just so I can be able to do that. And I'm fortunate enough that right now, I could do stuff like that So I'm good I just have to fulfill my personal Like need to want to create and also make an impact. like if I and given the privilege of being more successful than I am right now. I will give back more That is something that I want to do and something that's always been in me of like giving back to people, making donations to charities and things like that. like I want to feel like I'm doing the right thing because I don't need all of it I don't need all the money and I don't need that sort of thing, likeike I get a lot of joy out of helping people And I get a lot of joy out of just like of other people being happy. I love that. Like I love being in a group of people and everyone's just super happy But I did make the mistake at a time where I thought that everyone should want the things that I want. which is wrong Not everyone needs to be like entrepreneurial and like chasing something and follow your passion and do whatever, like find a thing. like your job isn't your passion, find something else and whatever Not everyone is wired that way. which is the beauty of it too that that was like Then you become this person who's like, I want to save everyone and I want to And that's wrong, I think And I've gotten to a point now where you you know, like we were saying earlier, there are some people that are Content, the fishermen I was the fucking dude at Harvard Harvard was never in the cards for a guy like me I was that guy where I was like Here's what we could do. you know, whatever. And they're just like, bro, I don't want to do that. You want to do that And it's like, oh yeah You know, like you can't force that on people either. So to make it easier, a very simplified version is like, make yourself happy Don't do it in spite of anything and you don't need everyone to do the thing that you're doing. Run your game. That's it. run your race and everyone else is running their race But make sure that everyone around you is happy because like that's the really the only thing. Dude, if you're content, with one fish a day What fuck am I to say If I'm not content with one fish a day, that sucks for me. I gotta go out and fish more But you're cool, bro, I'm kind of jealous of you then You know Like and just because I have one money, it doesn't mean anything att a certain point, if what I want out of life is to truly just you know, be able to travel and see people and learn things and talk to people and have these types of conversations And I'm doing it I got on a plane to get here to have this conversation with you. I'm doing it What am I going be upset about? This is the thing that I wanted for so long and I'm doing it now So like I'm playing with house money So just Reizing that also and not just getting on the hamster wheel for the sake of getting on it. It's like nothing's ever good enough or whatever Dude, it's not Like free yourself up. If you're looser, I think that things it's easier to kind of get your job done also you're like real strictly like I got toa whatever you were talking about before. It's like, I need to be creative right now, because I need make more money and then I can do this. and then then I'll be's like bro. Just J find what you're doing and just like try to Whatever I'm fking in circles now this fucking newonic is killing me No man, you're you're infectious. you're really infectious. I'm being serious. I'm being serious. I can see why you're successful. I can see why people follow you. I can see why however many tens of thousands of people sold out Madison Square Garden to come and see you as well. You know That level of self belief that doesn't feel tyrannical doesn't feel like it's overbearing or domineering or or selfish. And like I have a good idea of what I like And I like what I like And I want to try and create a life that helps me to Enjoy as much of that as possible about as infectious of a philosophy as you can get And I can totally see why you've been successful. Thank you, Dude. And I appreciate you saying that because Sometimes and I realize the way that I'm talking about it now, it almost sounds like Like I'm a freight train And it's like, I have this thing in my head and I have to do it my way and everyone get out of my way. It's not like that. L I'm much softer than that. Like that goes on in here. and But mostly I'm scared Mostly I'm scared and I'm like second guessing myself, but I like am putting one foot in front of the other because I feel like I have to because there's a voice in my head that I mean, obviously I'm like anxious about things and I'm scared of certain things or whatever, but there's a voice in my head that's so intense and it's so loud that like, yoll, fucking do it. likeike don't be a coward, like do it. And like it's so loud that I can't sort of ignore it. But that only exists in here. I'm not like a freight train. Like I'm not like this like when we're on set or something or when we're just talking about ideas, like, no, no, no, we're going to do it this. It's not like that. It's it's more of like an internal belief thing I had a conversation with a guy called David Dada, he wrote this book suuper famamous book in the nineties called The Way of the Superior Man And he's o Coach phhilosopher, spiritual guide for men and guys, especially that have lost their purpose a little bit and don't really know where they're going in life. And I did the first interview that he's done in a decade a couple of weeks ago When I was doing the research, look at him back to the start of his career and this guy has had the most fucking eclectic career that you have ever heard of He did Quantum mechanics, then he did pure mathematics, then he worked on AI in the eighties. Then he ran a yoga, ashrAam retreat for forever. Then he did this coaching thing, then he did a family thing, then he became an author, thenen he went back and did more AI stuff and he founded company. just bounced all over the place. and I asked him while we were talking. to die. I can't really What already read. I can't I can't piece together. I can't weave the path of your life. Yeah. in a straight line And he said When I don't want to do something or when I'm called to change what I'm doing Being out of alignment with that voice is so painful to me, physically painful to me. It feels like someone's wrenching my insides I don't have any choice. So what from the outside lookooks like self belief and bravery and single mindedness From the inside is actually fear of pain And the pain is me being out of alignment You sound like him Yeah You sound like that guy. The voice in my head is so loud not do it. I can't not do the thing because they're saying, donon't be a coward Go and do it, G go and chase your dreams Yeah, And it's like, yo, if I feel like I have Like one part of me feels like I have the potential. and I think that a lot of people see potential in themselves for certain things like, yo, I could do that or I can do this or whatever, but they get discouraged along the way. I never get discouraged because I have that where it's like, just keep going. Like we are you gonna stop? Like you can't stop You believe it Like if you believe it, then it's like it's Th those things like meat And it's like, would you believe it? Like if I believe it, I have to keep going then because I believe it. I can't like I have to be I have to see it through You know, like It's really tough for me to like There are some things because there was a point in my life where I was very experimental too. like I'll try a bunch of different things and just just to sort of see. like creatively, I think that is helpful. Like I don't really see a lot of merit in picking something and it's like, well, I have to do that now. Like that's the thing that like I think there is merit in realizing along that journey where your strengths are, and it's okay to pivot It's okay to pivot and do, you know things that now make more sense that are resonating even harder because there's no way you haven itt figured out on day one No matter what, you can plan all you want and you can do whatever, but it's never going go the way that you think So I mean, that was that's another thing too that you know, me and Greg have had multiple discussions about where creatively Pople can get into a creative rut where they feel like I have to keep planning to perfect this I and I don't think that's helpful Like for anything Like I think that you can only learearn by doing Like Tal by fire, like just put yourself out there. L you can plan a little bit. Give me an exam starting a podcast, Ehen If you're starting a podcast and you're like, I want to start a podcast, you have a loose idea. You have something that you want to do, cool, whatever, like Dude, start, but you're gonna to spend three months being like, oh, so here's the strategy, where I'm going to have conversations with all these people and I'm really gonna dial it in or whatever. You think you're not going to pivot? You think you got it right now, You haven't even started Like you don't have it right. You need to start now though Because you're only going one of those. Did you not begin working on the live show a year before you even went out there thinking of the song that you were gonna walk out to? That that to me is like a different thing. So like what the shows were? No That those moments are like I'm scoring something like a part of a movie of my life kind of. Like that's what that kind of feels like of like, okay, that's the moment that I want to make happen. This is the thing that's motivating me right now, like kind of how do we get there? Also action of like Okay, that's what we want. We want radio City. It wasn't until after the first show that I looked at my agent I was like I want rado city And he's like, all right, like I'll kind of work on it. and we'll see if we can get it or whatever. after the first show Wh whoo the fuck am I by the way, That was crazy. I was on a high. I came off stage. I was like, that was sick. So I was like, yo, radio City, book the fucking Yankee stadium. I don't care Um So yeah, it's like, I want to do that. I'm not ready for it But it's like, book it over there, I'll get to it and we'll figure it out. Um I'm focused on okay, I need to be better tomorrow, or I need to be better at the next show or whatever. I'm like we're gonna get there event, but I'm not planning. and just being like I'll give you an example. So when we're starting the tour, right It's a decision of like, should we should we go on tour And then it's like, yes, we should action the next day. An action would be like We're talking to the agent. We're like, okay, what's the process for this thing? and going along the way? it's like, all right, whatever. Like Of course, then you have to get to planning, what the show's to be I mean,'s no're toal there be like well Well, I have no plan. hello. Like there is that sort of planning but that's not necessarily what I'm talking about. I'm talking about Stalling the process so that you can like perfect something. It you can't perfect It would be not booking the show until you'd written the show. Exactly And even then it's like, what do you think? It's not going to change, dude. I mean, we had a conversation yesterday where you fucking show changed every five minutes or whatever the fuck. You were like, yeah, it changed out forty percent of every show Bailed out in between each show. Yeah, ye. Yeah. I mean, but it's true. It's like the only way that you can really learn. likeike think about how long if you like we're like, okay, we're going to do that, but we're gonna to, you know, really plan, really hone in and blah blah, blah, L you're just gonna to have to jump It's it's a lot of of that Do you have a tattoo? Yeahah, it's a smile on the inside of my wrist. Okay. I get the same sort of feeling when I got tattoos. It's like, well, I want the tattoo And now I'm sitting in the shop and I'm like, fuck likeike this thing is permanent or whatever And I had the same feeling every time I got a tattoo where I'm like, this And then it's like The guys like, arere you ready? And a part of me just goes like, fuck it Maybe you'll hate it But whatever, fuck it It's like that approach is like what you need is You're never going to be like super ready. You're never going to have it fully dialed in. but you need to just do it and just suck at it because no matter what, it's gonna suck If you're lucky, it's going to suck If you're lucky If you are if you if If you can't look back on something you did years ago And you're like, that was great, thenen you probably suck now. becausecause there's no one getting it right on the first try You should suck because that means that you grew and you got better at something, but you have to start. Like you're never going to plan your way out of not sucking. likeike you're going to look back embarrassed a little bit. You're going to look back and be like, that wasn't great And also things change, you're going to have to adapt anyway Just start. I just start dude. Just suck at it. Just suck at it. But you're doing it You're doing it make it your identity. Just do it Like just do it. If you want to be a rapper dude, then be a rapper. be it. you can be it. You know, like just do it then. No, you don't have to sell out a fucking venue to be a rapper broke rap. Just do it Then you're a rapper, like make it your identity. When people think of your name, they're going to associate yourself with that. They're going tociate your name with like, yeah, they get the rarapper. That that's what you want Then you're it Being successful at it, that's a different problem. It's a different problem for a different day. You're going have to be good at it. You're gonna have to care about in all that fucking bullshit. But like, if you want to be something, dude, make the decision and do it. You can Like what you're worried about and the thing that stalls you is like, are other people going to think U that I'm good at this or how am I going to look? Am I going to look cringy? Am I going whatever? like getet to the point where you're okay with that. like just Just believe in who you are, know who you are and be like, I don't care if people think I'm a cringy. Like of course people people probably thinking about people in your comments probably like this kid's cringy, bro. fuck this kid whatever, bro, I don't care Im It's not why I'm doing it I everything I'm saying feels so real to me. Like this is not like A fake thing that I have So I'm okay with people inter interpreting it in a different way and thinking that it's for show or whatever. like It doesn't matter, bro because don't one, I don't know you and two, like I have to live my life I'm gonna to walk away from this thing. like even if you're looking at me right now and you're like, this kid's I' an idiot I don't agree with anything you're saying Bro, I don't I don't care because it's real to me and I have to live my life. It's my reality. So like It's it's kind of, it's kind of like that There has to be a balance though, to be fair, because everything I'm saying like you can get yourself in trouble where it's like, I believe everything that I say and whatever. gets close to delusion. Only, um and you're not a fucking brrutal hang if you have checks and balances and You're very willing to take on criticism and you're very willing to listen as well Because you can't just always be the one talking. You can't because you're not going to learn anything. Like if you're not giving someone the opportunity to talk or to teach you something or you think they can't teach you anything. You're wrong You're wrong because everybody can teach you something. Just shut up and listen sometimes But then like, if you can master those two things Very empowering to know that like, oh man, I'm willing to be wrong But I also like I believe in myself in my decisions, but I mean, that definitely could get me to a dead end, but I have to be okay with that. And I am, I am okay with that. because I'm already grateful for what I have Like I'm already at the point where like this is good enough for me. I'm willing to hit the dead end. I was willing to hit the dead end fucking ten years ago That's that's the The fact that I always feel like I have nothing to lose I have nothing to lose. Like day one I felt like I had nothing to lose, I still feel like that now Like I could take a risk, whatever. what's going to happen? Ceres or like this is going to upset someone because you're not going to do this and that's going to upset someone O someone's like, yo, this is going to be a bad decision for your career. But if I don't feel like it's right for me I don't care. Take it then my career I don't care I have to stand on it like that you know, like you have to You have to do what's right for you. When I first got signed to William Morris I had a meeting and it was I was young and I was on a big it was a big table and there was a lot of people there. I'm done one of those. And it was like, this lady's like, I'm your book agent. I was like, don't read. Wh who's next? Like someone else? like you know, But then they were like talking about stuff. And one of the things that I said in that meeting, was Um I was also like didn't really know much. So the idea that I had in my head about agents was like, They're going to try and like take over your career and make you do stuff that you don't want to do or whatever. for whatever reason And I told them like, You know, there's a chance that you present a thousand things and I say no to all of them. Like I'm going to do the thing that I that I want to do And I wanted them to know that I wasn't intimidated by the moment, evenven if I was intimidated by the moment I was lying Like but I wanted them to know that like You can't push me around. I don't know how much I believe that. But I was like I didn't want them to think that We we got it from here kid type of thing. It was like, no, get the fuck off me. Like I'm still going to do this thing. I will accept help, of course and some sort of guidance, but it has to resonate with this thing that has gotten to me like gotten me everywhere that I have gone. Like it has to resonate with that. Like I can't do something that doesn't hit there I just refuse to do that. whatever that means. If that means missing out on which I've missed out on a ton of stuff, it's gotten me in trouble. I've definitely said no to things that I probably should have done whatever It's fine. It's okay. I'm willing to lose. It's fine. but That's that's the route I'm choosing to go that I'm okay with losing. I'm okay with missing out on stuff I'll learn from it And maybe it takes a few tries to even learn from it. It's not like one thing and then it's like, now I got it. I'm good. Like no, it's like It's a series of mistakes. That's the point. I'm happy to make mistakes. Who the fuck is not making mistakes and is cool Wh's like, you know, you got nothing going on. You got you got you' not making mistakes, you're not taking fucking huge els. like What are we talking about then, dude No risks, no nothing What is your day like, dude? Like what is it You're just gonna to write on post ititss and sneeze, That's it Give me something, Gege You know, like take risks. It's exciting. It's exciting to fail, dude Like it makes you a person. gives you something at least But like I don't know. just just fucking I don' an outd it I get very passionate about this, dude. forget about it. If you put a fucking glass of red wine in front of me, we'd be here for ten hours be a rap I get it, man. U What would you say to someone to struggles with their self belief or self assuredness Every time that they try to tap into their gut instinct, they Stuggle. I can't reallyad hear it A they scared What would you say think that's normal I think it's normal to tap in, listen to it. It doesn't work out, and you're scared and you're scared because it hasn't worked out in the past partart of it Keep listening Just keep listening and keep doing. If that's what's interesting to you, if you I think it would fulfill you to be at a place eventually where your Y sort of end all be all is your intuition That's something that you want, just All all you got to do is listen and keep doing it. J just keep making the mistakes I didn't get it right. I still bro, I get the shit wrong all the time. I don't even know if what I'm saying right now is coherent. I'm just talking. like you know what I'm saying?ike It's probably not don't laugh., no, I know it's not Um, but I like you you just Just lay it all out on the table. It's okay to be vulnerable, like whatever, be cringe, be whatever You get somewhere with that. att least it's real. L at least if you're being vulnerable, people know that and it's real. You're taking a swing by doing that. I can come on this show and Just say a bunch of things that I think you want to hear. I don't even know what you wantan to he But like I could I could just do that, but like, I don't get anything for that. I'm trying right now. I'm trying right now This is, but this is all like very real to me, everything that I'm saying It's like This is very real to me. If it resonates people who watch your show That is like an incredible feeling for me And if it doesn't It's like, ah This is one of those things. that took a shot, you know, like But it's real to me. I don't need them to think that, you, I don't need it to resonate Be it resonates with me and it works for me. and it may not work for everyone, which is totally fine. How does it feel to be having a conversation that's way more serious than the ones that you usually do me on podcasts to get to talk about this stuff I I enjoy it. I mean, this is why like You know, I wanted to come on the show. I'll tell you, by the way, before I met you, I was invited by Spotify to go out to L.A. and they were like, oh, come to this thing. And I was like, okay, cool. they wanted me to be on fucking panel. And I was like, all right, cool And then and then I saw that you were on it Two weeks prior to that My brother sent a link of your John Bellian interview. in my family's group chat. you've been friends with him forever. With John. Yeah. Yeah. veryery loose friends, but yeah. but they they sent that link in there And like my whole family is like Jhn Billion fans and My brother was like, you should go on this guy's show. Like this would be like a cool thing for you to be on And then two weeks later, I get the email that you're going be on the panel. So immediately I'm gonna to fucking talk to this dude. Like then that's this is when it starts, right It starts where it's like, okay, I'm going to be on the panel Guy And I want to be on his show What does it take to kind of get there? And I don't know, I don't know you And like at that point, like I don't know you, I've never talked to you, whatever. so you could have I could have just been like that guy's kind of a fucking asshle, like whatever I don't want to be on a show anyway. I don't care. But like We meet and we immediately like have this report. I'm like, this is great and And then the next day I saw you at the other fucking thing, and then now I'm sitting here feeling is incredibly validating and it's enough for me to believe in the intuition and the energy and that feeling of like, just follow your gut and do those things, say yes to shit. Put yourself in a situation where you could get like lucky in a way and get this opportunity. I can see that as like this Some people could look at this as like, you got lucky But I' to that Like I'm putting myself in situations where I could potentially get lucky. I see luck as not a magical thing but just opportunity. that you took advantage of, that looks like look, because the chances of you being on my panel are I don't, I don't even know the fucking chances It was there and I could either Do nothing. becausecause there was other people on there They're not sitting here today Like I'm sitting here today And it was because I was like sort of intentional about that. I wanted that. I wasn't going to be like, Hey, buddy, can I be on your fucking show? But like How do you get to this point that you like you want to connect with someone, you think that this would be a good fit And then it ends up being so and now I'm sitting here, like that is incredibly validating. And again, that's enough for me to be like This is how you get things done. just just to the idea, dude. like just be prepared for your opportunities. And then it looks like look But if I went there and we never spoke or I was too shy to speak to or I felt, o, he doesn't want to like fuck at me. like he has fucking Luke Holmes and like these very famous people on his show. He's not going to interview me. brobe me of all people like if I didid that to myself and got in my own way Then I'm not sitting here and we're not having this conversation Get out of your way, dude. Like just just believe the only thing that you need is a belief that it could happen That was enough for me to be like, I'm gonna to talk to him. He wass just a little fucking guy. You know, like I'm just, you know, like, but if you get in your own way like that, you're closing yourself off You don't have the opportunity for people to be like, oh, you got lucky, or like, you know, whatever the fuck, closing yourself up to opportunities if you're if you're getting in your own way, I just get out E getting out of your own way. will result in a lot. opppportunities pop up, you'd be surprised how they do that? Just say yes, dude Just say yes to shit It's exciting once it happens to you It's very exciting And it doesn't happen all the time, but it will happen Like I say yes to. I mean you can say I mean, I said yes to sh for a years and nothing ever happened with that. And then once things start happening, then it kind of feels like you met this person and then you met that person or whatever. and like You know, the networking aspect of that Pro just be a good dude I believe that or at least the people that I want to be around If you're a good guy, they want they like you. They want to root for you. And it's like, I just want to, I just want to be that I want to meet people, they think I'm a good guy and it's like, Well, I'm gonna to remember that. I like that kid You know, I like the thing that he believes or the things that he says or whatever the fuck, you know, and I respect the thing that he does. I I want to be around people that I respect that I like that I think are good people. I won't surround myself with people that I think are like that are like weird and like do bad shit like I'm not covering for you dude like, you know, like I'm not like, I want you to be a good person because that's what I'm on. That's what I'm that's what I'm about. Like I don't I don't want to be around people that I feel like or negative or like trying to hurt people or like whatever. like I'm not about that at all. Like I'm just trying to be a good dude and I want that mutual respect from people and that's it ust simplify it, Proke it out of your way I'm talking to myself, by the way, because I did that for years I did it for years. Like getting in my own way, overthinking, Nope, not good enough. The example that I just gave you, I've done that numerous times of being like, whyy would they talk to meebraro? likeike why and whatever? And like who knows what could have happened with that I refuse to do that now I refuse to do that What do you do when that fear comes up Just like, don't be a bitch. like stop Like what's the reason? L what's the actual reason Like what are you afraid of?ike if it doesn't work out, you're in the same spot you are now Like how is it actually scary? When you think about it in that way, like what is scary about that You either open a door and there's an opportunity or there's nothing. Shut the door. You're good. It's it That's all it is L you're open doors. you open door there's opportunity, Oh,ow that's great. That's what I wanted There's nothing there. You close the door. What the fuck happen? Not It's just it's neutral the fear is like It actually can put you this like insane disadvantage in your life If you get in your own way becausecause like the opportunities, you're closing yourself off to them You need opportunities, you need help from people And you need to be like collaborative and But you also need to Be confident and assertive in certain ways. and kind of like put your foot in the door You know? And like sometimes people will slowly shut a door. I'm on doors today like crazy, by the way. But someone would slowly shut a door and you got to stick your foot in and like let it hit your foot and just kind of like You sometimes you got to do that You can't just like stand there and let someone slowly shut the door in your face. like be assertive. Like know who you are. That is the most important thing. Know who you are, be confident in who you are and really believe Really believe yourself, but be humble about it. Like believe, start a fire in yourself and be like, I'm very capable, but also like you have to be a humble person. You have to be likeable and You're not the most important person in the world. Like be a good guy too Be assertive Put yourself out there It's actually a lot of fun And when you get used to failing a lot, it's that is funny. That even helps me even more than probably shit working out, honestly. Things that work out now, like that probably plays against me Like now the more success, the more unrelatable you become likeike I'd rather fail at this point. It gives me something to talk about. You know So Either way, it's a positive You fail, you got a funny story. If it works out, you got the thing you wanted. You're a man dude. honestly, you're one of a kind Really one of a kind, I'm very, very glad that you decided to. Hown't you say that, like it's crazy. I'm glad that you decided to stalk me to L.A Irdiam First of all I was invited for I don't even know if that's true, Now it's um It's very Gravitational being around you Yeah like very electric being around you. And I can see why You've got this rabid supportu. It's like unbelievable energy It's like very, very compelling So just fight up now that we're friends and I get to watch you go and do the fucking Stuff You've got cool things coming up over the next couple of years and that's it's like fucking Bellions doing red rocks, right Later this year there's a difference between seeeeing someone's stuff online, which I hadn't, I hadn't seen your stuff. Had you seen my stuff before Bellian? Yeah, there're fuckingwhere. I'm sorry about Well don't forget you se see my top three podcasts donon't forget the fucking headlights, right? Yeah you know, the Ven diger and you don't watch that much YouTube and you don't spend much time podcasts. Hey Well, I don't I spend time, but I don't like go back to the same thing as I run. Okay. Okay. I'm strolling The fact that I' got to know John and then I get to see him do a thing And I get to like Root for my boy. Yeah One of the greatest gifts is to become friends with someone that you're a fan of. Yeah, or to become a fan of someone that you're friends with And then you get It's tenen times better. Oh to go and watch someone or to see one of your friends, so George, big nose sneezes a lot is riding a buck at the moment and That thing, I'm watching this suckcer unfold one sentence per day R? likeike slowly being crafted and I'm hearing him talk about it and I'm giving him a like, o I don't really like that. And then that thing's going to come out and when I read it, it's going be the best book I've ever read because I'm going love the person that did it. And when Bellian gets to do Red rocks I'm going to be like, that's kindind of my fucking boy. Like that's my boy doing that. And that's fucking like the show's amazing and ra raa and then the same thing for you. I'm really, really fucking glad that you reached out and I think that you're awesome. and it's sick to have you. Re. Thank you, dude. I really do appreciate like this conversation Like I don't get to do it often like on camera or whatever Um But I do ramble quite often with My friends. so well, you rambled. When you when you get fucking yappin, it's goes in a good direction and That's it, man. We need to do this again. Yeah. That's it. Where should people go? to check out everything you do? You can go follow me at Joe Santgato, goodood luck spelling it Josh Pino. Pino, where did he come from now today It is what it was. And and the basement yard is the podcast, so go check that out everywhere All right, See you next time, everyone Dude in man I sort. Hey, it's Ry Reynold here from Mit Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited preremium wireless for fifteen dollarars a month is back