Defining Happiness and Future Goals

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance What if an insight in data could change everything at A RAMco Our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world Because margins aren't marginal There' where we can truly push the limits of what's possible A RAMco. an integrated energy and chemicals company Learn more at aramco. com The ultimate cookout starts with the ultimate ingredients. At Whole Foods Market, no antibiotics ever burgers and kebabs are prepped and ready to throw on the grill Fire up a juicy ribeye, grab creamy potato salad and savory flatbreads from the prepared foods department, and round it all out with three hundred and sixty five brand condiments, chips and dips at everyday low prices. Whole Foods Market, Make Y summer sizzle Today we're dedicating the whole podcast to Tenager fininances as one of our special Moneybox life episodes. You enter your teens as a child and you leave them as an adult. And the money lessons you learn in that time can shape the rest of your life, so there's a huge amount to understand, and it's all at a time where there are quite a lot of other distractions. The earliest experience most children have with cash is pocket money. Around a third of parents pay that regularly. That's according to the annual Nat West Rooer Money Index. Other parents pay out as rewards for chores or for birthdays I've been chatting to thirteen year old Isaac, who does receive pocket money, and I asked him how he spends it with a card or with cash Oh my card is where I buy my stuff most of the time. so like bus tickets and sometimes snacks if I want to buy them And I've got cash, which I save for bigger things. When you're thinking about B tickets and snacks. Do you have a fixed amount of money you have to try and budget? Well I normally always end up having spare money left off for the next month. Oh so you're budgeting pretty well Yeah. Are you doing that on purpose? Are you trying to make sure you've got money left over at the end of the month Yeah, also so I have more money in summer just to spend that when I got days off. You mentioned using a card. Are your parents putting money onto that card for your monthly pocket money? Yeah. And how do you find using that? Do you think harder a budget when you just sort of tap and pay? It can be because it's just so easy to kind of tap and pay like you said Also if you look at the account and realize how much money you have, you kind of worry a bit more as well Thank you to Isaac and to his dad, Money boox listener, James for connecting us. Well listening to Isaac and joining us throughout the program is Stephanie Fitzgerald, head of Young People's programs at the Money charity. Stephanie hello. Hlli. Now your organization actually goes out to schools and teaches personal finance concepts and ideas. Isaac also told me he didn't feel there was enough talk about money and managing it What's actually on the curriculum for teenagers Yeah, so financial education is on the curriculum in all the nations, but it's quite basic and it sits in a few different places. so it sits in cisorsmsship maths and PSHE in England. So it doesn't really have a home. so it often actually gets forgotten and actually less than half of young people say that they've received any financial education at all. And do the you people do people Isaac's age want more information about money? What kind of thing do they want to know Yeah, absolutely. So the London Foundation for Banking and Finance, The Young Persons Money Index found that eighty percent of young people say they want to learn more about money. and that's absolutely our experience. know when we're going into schools and community groups across the country, they've got loads of questions to ask, all sorts, lots about debt we get quite a lot. you know what happens to debt when you die? Lots about investing actually, I think, because that's kind of interesting and exciting But also I noticed that Isaac used the word worry at one point. and that's something that we really find that there's a lot of anxiety around managing money. and that's why young people want to know more We're going to spend the next half an hour sharing more. Let's hear from Lua next. He's sixteen and he is just incredibly proactive. I went into a barbershop, asked if I could start. sweeping hand looking at other people do haircuts and then It just stemed from there. So I work every Saturday and then it's sort of commission based. so It's based off a percentage of what I earn. so it's not like a set rent. So I charge twenty pound for adults and fifteen for like sixteen or under probably get betweenween like ten to fifteen clients a week so could be anywhere from a hundred pound to three hundred pound just depends on how busy it is It's a universal skill in it because everyone in every country gets haircuts so Maybe even having my own shop one day. becausecause obviously I started making money when I was thirteen. I didn't really have much important things to spend it on. so So I just spent it on more enjoyment and leisure Something I'd definitely like to do is get a car, and that's a big thing for me. I've been wanting to drive for years now. That's definitely what my first big purchase will be I'm so impressed by Luca. Well, listening to that is Julia Evans from Spear, which is a charity that supports young people to find work. Julia hello. Hello. Lucca is just remarkable, isn't he? But a recent BBC investigation found Tenagers, particularly younger teenagers, they're struggling to find Saturday jobs now. And that's partly because they're being squeezed out of the jobs market by slightly older people Is it harder for teens his age to find that traditional Saturday job, to find part time work Yes, that's definitely what we're seeing. So at SPar we work with sixteen to twenty four year olds who are not in education, employment or training and often the young people we work with have barriers to work so they might have fewer than five GCSCs, spent time and care, that kind of thing. And actually the first jobs that most teenagers get are in things like retail and hospitality. and we know that since october twenty twenty four the trade body UK hospitality so there's about hundred thousand jobs have been lost in that industry. So that's kind of half of all the job losses across the UK economy. So there is a trickle down effect as well. If you look at the broader jobs market, you've got graduates who are struggling to get graduate jobs, they're taking roles that would have gone to young people who are perhaps less well qualified, and that sort of trickles down completely. So then the young people and the teenagers on programs like ours who are perhaps already more disadvantaged are competing for fewer jobs. and it is much harder, I think, than it used to be Stephanie, do you get the sense that teenagers who are still at school or college or maybe even uni want to work Or is there more of a focus now on having time for studies or time for extracurricular activities I think it's a mixture a bit of both. We definitely see that there's more kind of concern about getting things right in terms of studying, especially because university' more expensive than it maybe used to be. and people are worried about know being in lots of debt and so they want to focus on their studies. But we would definitely encourage young people to work because it's you know the way you can learn about managing your own money by doing, having that independence, being familiar with things like a pay slleip from early on, having experienced for yourself what it's like to save some of your own money and you know how great that feels when you can buy something big you really wanted and also to make mistakes while it's still safe and you're maybe still living at home And it's not a big deal if you kind of have some regrets around and you know learn some lessons around how you spent your money. And all that fun stuff as well, Stephanly. Like paying taxes and being on time and the things that you perhaps don't think about before you start working Yeah, which is often quite a shock in our workshops when we cover that topic. But yeah, exactly. I think again, a lot of the word we hear a lot and we see a lot in research is anxiety when it comes to money for young people. And part of the problem is that if you're not spoken to about money when you're young and you're not experiencing things for real life because you're working then it's kind of a scarier unknown, and there's more of a cliff edge when you reach adulthood where suddenly you feel like you're expected to know how everything works Julia, you talked about working with people who are not in employment, education or training, sometimes known as NTS. Unemployment among ages sixteen to twenty four is at its highest level for a decade. almost a million people in that age are not in employment. So it's not just the Saturday jobs and the sort of teenagers learning these important skills, those new starter jobs are also under pressure Definitely and it's a really tough jobs market. So as she said, almost a million young people are not in education employment or training. and that's actually that figure hasn't really changed in the past. years and we know that there's a lot of interest in this topic at the moment. Alan Milbin is doing an inquiry. and he actually said in a piece a couple of weeks ago that young people are not getting prepared for the world of work at school. So there's a focus on academics but maybe not on what it means to be work ready. So the young people that we work with are amazing. potent but maybe they haven't grown up in an environment where they see people go out to work, dressed smartly, for example. So when they come on a programm like ours, we really have to start with the basics, what it's like to look someone in the eye, how to speak professionally. We teach them things like small talk. So what are you going to say to your colleagues in the break time when it's your first week at work It really is that basic, but actually giving young people all of those skills early on will help them then not only get their first job but then progress in their career. And what we're seeing in the economy as well is there's research from the Joseph Roundtree Foundation that if you don't get out of a minimum wage job quickly within a year, you're really unlikely to ever get out of it. So we work with young people for a year not only to get into their first job but also to then think about their next step in their careers. that could be moving to a bigger employer that has more progression opportunities or thinking about applying for something like an apprenticeship or program where you're going to sort of build those qualifications. Okay, let's hear from some more teenagers. I spent a very fun Friday evening at Warrington Youth Zone in Cheshire. It's part of the Onside Network, which is a group of eighteen youth centres around the country. and about sixty thousand young people use their centres every year. I sat down with three of them, Joe who's fifteen and lives with his parents Dom, who's eighteen and lives with his mum and two sisters, and Indy, who's also eighteen and has been living on her own since she was seventeen. We'll hear from Indy first So I'm in college actually two days a week and I also work two jobs. One of them is currently in a local bar in Warrington I work in and I also am a crew member at McDonald's. So I fit that in as much as possible within my social life. You're living independently, you're only eighteen. has it been a bit of a learning curve? I think it's definitely been a learning curve, but I think as was very privileged as a kid for my dad to actually take me shopping. So everything he did I kind of followed, did it with my mum as well. So it's kind of where I've learnnted what I need, how much it is, what do you do with it, how long it will last me. So I usually add everything up before I actually get it so I know what it's getting spent on and then whatever I've got left, either put it aside or I'll put it into a savings account for investment Do you think that Wking a job has kind of taught you the value of money before you're out in the world on your own. I would say it has, yeah, because especially such like I'm at a young age, it's kind of like I'm a vital resource. that you need to gain the incentive that in order to save it like as much as you can, save, sae, safe, save, but also, you know, it's Not that bad soir Bnd it here and there. What'd you do with the money that you earn? Are you helping out with the household? Are you saving up? Sometimes I can be very frivolous, but I also tend to help out my family with bills and shopping and any form of them that necessities them that it keeps afoat and alsosible try to save for that some of the larger things that I'd want in life later on Is there enough financial education? Do parents talk enough to teenagers about finance? A the things that you wish you'd understood before you reached eighteen? I wouldn't really say that there was much that I would wish to have understood because of that my parents have inserted a sense of hard work and some of these money skills early on as soon as I had started work So I've had quite a lot of expererberiance already in that field. Joe, do you think it should be pushed more? Do you think that you could and should be learning more about money or do you talk about it already in school? I feel like we already get taught Quite a bit of money, but we could be a more feel like on top of that we should have more options to be able to do more work experiences during our school time rather than having to do them, say when we're off on school holidays. feel like it would give you more things to put on your CV, you'd have more experience, which would make it like you wouldd be more employable we'll hear more from Indy, Dom, and Joe in just a few moments.sephanie those young people are having a completely different money conversation to Isaac at the start of the programe, aren't they? He's talking about snacks, they're thinking about bills. and that just shows your money understanding really does have to develop fast through your teens. Yeah. And I think one of the problems is that it can start to feel negative, like it's getting more negative. it starts with being excited about what nice things you can buy and treats and things. And then it ends up being kind of about tax and responsibilities and budgeting and things. So with our money workshops, and what's really important when talking to young people about money is to keepe it positive and try and focus on what they like what they want out of life and the fact that even if you don't have very much money, there usually is some element of choice in you know working out what you want to spend your money on And how important are parents or guardians or adults generally in shaping what teenagers Think about when it comes to money Yeah, they are really important. And we know that sixty percent of young people say that their main source of learning about money is from parents or family. So obviously they have a huge impact. And it sounds like Indy's dad's been doing a great job, you, taking her shopping, talking about spending choices, it sounds like and really teaching her you know real life money lessons It's not impossible, Stephanie, that more parents and grandparents are listening to this than the teenagers, just because they're on their way back from school. So what can family do then to bring up these issues with teens without boring them, without worrying them, or without making them, I don't know, roll their eyes and go into the next room Yeah, I think as you can imagine, sort of sitting down and saying, we're going to have a money lesson now might not go down that well. But I think yeah, like Iy talked about, kind of just during real life, bringing up money conversations, explaining why you're making particular decisions, maybe if you feel comfortable mentioning mistakes that you've made and what you've learned from them And if you feel comfortable talking about amounts as well, you know amounts of money, I think that's really key because we don't talk to young people about how much we earn generally, all that sort of thing is a taboo. So where do we expect them to find out that information from Howard has emailed saying that when he was a teenager, he got a credit card, went in a wild spending spree, and then found out you had to pay the money back plus interest. He says it was a bit of a shock And so he's done very differently for his children. He says he's made them use budgeting spreadsheets and says when they started university, I showed them how to use the spreadsheet. And for each term gave them their maintenance money only when they gave me back the completed spreadsheet for the previous term. It sounds a bit draconian, but each of them said it encouraged a financial discipline that they've continued to use Howard, thank you very much What if a marginal gain unlocked greater performance What if an insight in data change everything at a RAMco Our focus on detail helps us deliver reliable energy to millions across the world Because margins aren't marginal They' where we can truly push the limits of what's possible Aramco an integrated energy and chemicals company Learn more at arramco. com The ultimate cookout starts with the ultimate ingredients. At Whole Foods markarket, no antibiotics ever burgers and kebabs are prepped and ready to throw on the grill. Fire up a juicy ribbeye. Grab creamy potato salad and savory flatbreads from the prepared foods department and round it all out with three hundred sixty five brand condiments, chips and dips at everyday low prices Whole Foods Market, Make your summer sizzle ed for that. Julia, some really really engaged parents clearly. but if you're a teen who hasn't been able to learn from the adults in your life, you learn those important lessons around budgeting and saving? How do you go about teaching the young people that you're working with. Well, a lot of the young people that we work with are on benefits, around half are referred to the job centre to the SPA programme so they're getting some money to live on and many of them actually do end up in debt, so they're not getting that information. Certainly the SPA programme isn't a money charity, but we do talk about budgeting. We help them think through, okay if you're going to get paid in arrears, for example, what are you going to do for the first few weeks? What money will you need to buy your lunch orr maybe you should make your pat lunch and take it to work thinking about not spending your whole paycheck at once when you get it. And also lots of the young people we work with don't necessarily have things like a whole work wardrobe. they might have one smart outfit. n the SPA programme, we might have worked with an organisation to give them a smart interview outfit, but then thinking about, okay, how are you going to save up to buy the clothes that you need for your job and that kind of thing? I think the young people you had on there were just incredible. Joe talking about getting that work experience early so it's on your CV. That's something that is really helpful. Lots of young people we work with have never worked haven't volunteered and even doing babysitting, even doing volunteering through your school, walking around with your CV and going into the shops or businesses near where you live is a really successful way of actually getting a job We talk to young people about the hidden jobs market. So yeah, if young people want a part time job, go and tell everyone that you're looking for one, you know because somebody might hear of something on the grapevine. And I think that's also more engaging for young people rather than just applying for jobs online where you might not hear anything back. Yes, and that can be very dispiriting it. Julian's emailed to say that he's someone who employed young people and has children of his own, says there are a lot of rules about employment of young people as well as insurance, et cetera. And he says that his children have come across a lot of employeers who take no notice of the rules or are unaware, but that that might reduce the number of jobs available that were available thirty years ago. Thank you very much indeed, for that. We've talked a bit about mistakes. I think we should go back to our teen anel then because Indy was so brilliant and so thoughtful. but I did wonder if she'd made any mistakes when she first started living on her own at just seventeen So when I first ever moved, of course into my own tenancy, I was horrendous with money. How old were you? I was seventeen, very immature. I went, didn't have a job. I was I went, o, what do I spend this on? Just rubbish, honestly. of course, I was responsible enough to buy food and everything I need for the place like hygiene products or anything, but I was horrendous didn' save, nothing. And I think once I started growing up a bit more' not like in age but kind of where socializing with other people who are older than me. I've kind of learnnt of the value of money, what I have to do with it, how to spend it and I feel like a lot of, you know young people, maybe adults if needed kind of need, def feel like a nudge like, come on, this is what we need to do. What are your long term goals? I definitely want to do music in the future because I've got a very big passroom for it. But I've also had my eyes at the moment on for youth work becausecause I feel like at this moment in time a lot of young people do need kind of that one to interaction. what about you once you're through college? What do you want to be? I'm hoping to go to a university in Wales after I've completed my third year collollege wit I hope to do a degree in ocean sciences to hopefully become a marine Is money important to you? Is earning a professional salary something that you're aiming for? I would say it really depends on how I would choose to live my life outside of a corporate setting. But having a money will be a factor, but I feel like depending on some of the aspects that may affect my life It'll increase the urgency to chase that salary. Joe, do you think about sort of what you want to do after school or college or whether you want to go to university, what you want as a career? I don't know which path I want to take yet like I want to possibly take an apprenticeship or might take A levels and then after those, I don't know I want a job straight away or to a union It just depends on I guess what grades are that in emgy cities Do you worry when you hear about young people sometimes finding it harder to find work these days because of the rise of AI or because there's more people kind of competing for the roles? ot really is like the jobs which I wants to do, I feel like A I couldn't do. so it's such as like, engineering or jobs such as joinery or Bit lane they were just all really, really switched on teens, weren't they? Stephanie Indy was really upfront about not findinding it easy. Do the school age teenagers that you talk to admit to making mistakes Yeah. I mean quite often we say put your hand up if you're a spender and then put your hand up if you're a saver. A lot of them take great delight in putting their hand up for spender and saying, Oh, I'm terrible. I spend all my money. But yeah, you know they like talking about their money personalities and the mistakes that they've made and things. And I think Allowing them to make money mistakes as early as possible is what really makes a difference. you know when it's safe to. So even my kids are four and six and I give them pocket money now, which I sometimes slightly regret, you know when I'm in a toy shop painfully waiting for what feels like hours for them to make decisions about what they're going to spend their seven pounds on. But that means that they can make mistakes when it's safe and gradually learn from them rather than once they're independent and the consequences are more significant. Julia, that's a really good point, isn't it? Because in a way, your teens are a time to make mistakes, whether it's with money or I don't know cuts But if you're living on your own like Indy, you kind of have more scope to make mistakes and there's more jeopardy as well. It's so true and actually I was so impressed by Iy working two jobs one in a bar and one at MDonald's. I think that's absolutely incredible work ethic And yeah, I think she should be an inspiration to many of us. It's really interesting though that half of that million young people that are not in education, employment or training actually don't feel that they can work. Maybe they've got mental health problems and that kind of thing. So a lot of young people that we work with are too anxious to leave the house. They're not actually getting out there perhaps even to have the opportunity to spend their money they of sort of pulled away in a bedroom and that is that's really hard. So I think yeah, we've all got a role to play to really encourage young people to get out there and to look for work and to think about how they how they can actually be part of part of society Yeah, some really different challenges there. Stephanie, do the school pupils, the money charity works with talk about the income that they want when they're talking about the careers that they want Some do, but often not. and I think that's largely because they don't really have a concept of how much they might earn for different jobs. And why would they? Because adults don't go around talking about how much they earn. So it's something that we cover in our workshops where we give them different kind of personas and different jobs and show them what they'd be earning annually and then monthly and then how much they'll be taxed. And often there's kind of shock actually you know the fact that the firefighter earns a lot less than the marketing manager and that's not fair because they're putting their life at risk, that kind of thing. So there's definitely a lot more work that can be done in helping them to understand what realistic salaries might be so that they can make informed decisions We're getting lots of messages in with your money mistakes, particularly when you were teenagers or when you were young and starting out, Marx has started a pension way too late. It was boring. I wanted all my wages when I started work. In hindsight, even a few years of a civil service pension would have been very handy. Jenny says my twenty two year old is so much more sensible about money than I have ever been. Tony says, the mistake I made was giving all my money to HMV and McDonald's Soly it sounds like the joke Yeah the rest you just wasted. Right, well let's finish with some very big questions for our teens. I asked them if money makes you happy No. No. Because at the end of the day, of course, a lot of people think money is everything, but you could be probably the richest person in the world and probably be the loneliest. I would rather have My two very close mates and not have a penny in my pocket and if I've still got them, then that's hutonestly all what matters to me I would say it is an everything. however, it does make life a lot easier and your vue on life with and with and without money can be very drastic because one day you know you can have loads of money and be happy in the next minute. You'll have en nothing, but I think it's important to deserve to distinguish between your sedates of mind and to all to ask yourself what the value of money is to you rather than a worldwide thing worried about the youth. You guys are completely on the ball, aren't you? No pressure, Joe. Do you think money makes you happy? I mean, like Don said, money shouldn't be your top priority, your friends and people you know should be. but obviously having money does make life easier It makes It's that you can have more opportunities. Stephanie, do the school kids you talk to you think money will make them happy or is part of making them happy? Yeah, mix just like what we just heard really. but I think the key thing really is that it doesn' might not necessarily make you happy. That depends on your personality and your motivations and things. But it's definitely much easier to be happy if you're not worried and anxious about money and harder to be happy if you are. You know there's lots of research around Relationship breakdowns and absenteeism and things all linking to worries about money I'll tell you what, we started with thirteen year old Isaac, so we'll give a very, very quick last word to him. I asked him, does money make you happy? Well, it can help with happiness, but it's not the only thing that can make you happy, I think He's a very wise year eight, isn't he? We've also had a message from Keith, who's a chartered financial planner. He's emailed to say, We encourage parents to open up the money conversation at the table, be open about what things cost, where the money goes, encourage kids to be curious, get them engaged, take them on the weekly shop, encourage them to keep a spending plan, make money an open accessible topic of conversation and removing the taboo will create big impact. Keith, thank you for that. Right, Shall we have a final thought from both of you? Julia, Stephanie, what's one thing that parents, grandparents, family members, friends can all do to help their teens with money skills, Julia I think just encourage all young people to get work experience while they're young, while they're in education, even if you're going to university. Thank you, An Stephanie. I think Keith did my job for me really, but yeah talk to them about money and don't feel like you need to protect them from it because actually talking about it and raising their awareness will make them less anxious and more equipped for life