Post-Session Reflections and Progress

You said it, I listened. A lot of you have been asking for me to do more around single people and money It's time to do it. I am casting a new reality series about love and money. So if you are single and you live in LA, I want to talk to you Wt. com slash dating show. And if you've got friends who are single in LA, send them the link Wt. com slash dating showow. It feels like a joke. It means you are broke. Yeah. It means you are spending more than you make every month. E month. That's the ball game Tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, no savings, no investments, two children. What are the real issues here? It's dread and anxiety, poor financial decisions made four hundred one Ks cashed out. We had to ask them, hey, can we borrowed ten K because we're about to get evicted. like failure, especially with kids. I would actually get angry Agry at myself, angry at my upring, angry at each other, angry at the dynamic that we have allowed ourselves to sink into You are actually weeks away from not being able to pay your rent. frrankly, in order to not get evicted You will need to confront the very thing that you have avoided your entire life I have to afford Dreya and my children. Do you want the kids to have? Yeah great future Today is a big day for money for couples because we are recording in our new studio If you have followed along for the last few years, you've noticed that we are always improving thanks to your feedback. My team and I are listening And one of the things that I've wanted to do for a long time is go from audio only to video and then to even higher quality video I love seeing couples in the same room, holding hands crying sometimes, looking at each other. It tells me so much. and I think it's going to tell you a lot. Today I'm kicking things off with Freya and Blake. They're forty five and forty seven years old. They have two young children together and they spend more than they make every single month. Freya applied to speak with me, and she wrote, We are living with our terrible choices right now. We are literally broke to the point I'm worried we will be homeless you can hear the panic almost jumping off her application Let's take a quick look at their numbers to see what they're working with. I'm looking at their conscious spending plan or CSP. If you want my help with your own CSP, you can join my money coaching program at Wt dot com slash money coaching. assets, five thousand dollars invvestments one hundred and eighty dollars saavings zero Debt, ninety six thousand dollars. Total net worth negative ninety thousand nine hundred and ninety nine c. Now let's take a look at their fixed costs one hundred and two percent Okay, that's the ball game They're spending far more than they make every singleth Investments one percent Savings zero And guilt free spending is negative two percent. we know that's impossible. Looking at these numbers It's no surprise that Freya is panicking about their financial situation. It's actually quite dire. And when you see numbers like this, it is very easy to just take a huge hatchet and say, okay, we need to start doing this this, this, this, this Maybe we do. But we need to find out why they even got into this situation in the first place, so we are actually addressing the root problem That's my goal today. Now, let's get started with Freya and Blake. There was something that stood out to me from your application for you. I wonder if I can read it. You wrote Were basically one missed rent payment away from an eviction notice accurate feelels accurate. We don't have like the kind of warm fuzz landlords, they're like, yeah, yeah, we used to have one of them. Have you ever gotten any eviction notes? No? I've never I've always made it work And that is I think again, part of my issue with all of this is I've always managed to make it work I've always managed to come up with money somehow or, you know, talk my way out of being a month late in rent and being like, I'll promise, you know, like things like that my whole life. How long has it felt this dire twenty one. Pandemic midemic Pandemic hit us hard And does it feel equally dire or does one of you feel the weight of money more H I don't know. I mean, I know how I feel I don't know how you feel honestly. I feel like I think about it more and I talk about it more That's tough to call. thinks about it more, but I certainly think about it all the time every day. Yeah and every day Late at night, you know Be it's interesting that you don't know how each other feels about money. He doesn't like to talk about it We'll do it But then I'm like, okay now we need to have our weekly follow ups And that just that part doesn't happen. And then I start feeling like an nag. and then we just kind of rinse it and repeat. When you hear Freya saying, We need to have a budget meeting What is your initial emotional reaction to that U Dread I'd say ye Be dread it's dread and anxiety and It just means like I need to make more money. I'm the classic sort of like I need to just go make more money. So then We have that and the budget conversation can be a little more Positive Do you want to have a budget conversation No, it was onestly, I don't want to have bud. some comes me they're, we gotta about the budget. I'm like, what I don't I'd rather be dead Do you wantan to a budget meeting ind of I like. I like I like that kind of stuff. I do.ike what? Like checking things off. Yes, I love a to do list. I have different notebooks with different to do lists. Okay for different parts of my life. What the hell? You have multiple to do notebooks. Yes, I have a work one, I have a household one. I have one for the kids. I have One for my personal growth. like wow, I do. I but you know, it doesn't always translate into one of the things I would like to. Now you also mentioned that you don't communicate effectively about money. Can you give me an example We we had just moved, we were kind like in the same situation we always are. like end of the month. Oh my God And he was like, well My friend, we should go up to Badmount Bachelor and go skiing for the day. And I was like And I was like, well, that's a rich people's sport. And then it literally just would devolve into a fight. Then I was like, well, we can't afford it right now. It's like it's gonna to be thousands of dollars to go you know he wanted to get the kids lessons. They've never skied. I don't ski. He's like, you get a lesson and you get a lesson. And it's like, oh, we have lift passes, so it's not that big of a deal. You know, it ended up being a fight. He acquiesced and said, we won't go. I feel guilty He was so psych to go, hadn't gone ski in like ten years and used to go all the time. And so I finally said never, Okaykay fine, let's just do it. We'll figure out. Because I felt bad. Did you go? We did How much did it cost Probably about two K at the end of the day. Okay. We spent money that we should not have spent Is that true? you shouldn't have spent it We didn't have any to spend We didn't have it to spend. Yeah, I felt really guilty for saying Have you ever just embraced it and said, Okaykay, good We're not going It depends. I think I was at the moment, we had just moved We didn't know we don't know anybody there. And I just I think I was feeling a lot of that killed. I have said no, but I probably say yes more than no. I will say. And interestingly, acquiesced as she put it like you said, All right, fine we don't have to go But then when she said Okay, let's go. Cool, let's do Yeah. Is there a world where you were like, no, you're right, we shouldn't go there because of financial reasons In that particular situation, No U because you wanted to go In other situations, we've certainly made like Hey, let's cancel this. This is not a good. Yeah. That's rare Okay, let me understand a little bit more about the relationship. Are you married? No do you have kids? Yes. How old? Six and almost five. And are there other children rior relationship? I have two. You have two. A twenty six year old and a twenty two year old. Got it And do the older children live at home with you So the two young kids li be there. Yeah. Got it. Okay. get a little bit more understanding of the dynamic here. So I'm curious about another example. where the two of you were not on the same page with money to choose from Mexico trip with my parents. That one's probably a good one for you to take. What happened It was a summer trip to La Paz in Mexico with the kids Finances are tight I was very nervous about that because The vicitudes of my income are tough and knowing that into of the summer always gets a little because there's not much work Yeah. I felt like Freo really wanted to go. I mean, I wanted to go to. So I was more in the position of like, I don't saying no, I don't think we should do that. parents were involved. So I think your parents were going so it's probably harder for you to. Yeah. parents going Um Yeah, and we took a trip to Mexico on a credit card On credit card. How much should it cost Three and a half, something like that? Yeah. threeree and a half thousand. Not sure. It might have been more. Okay. And then when you got back What was the moment where you looked at the credit card receipt and you were like, uh oh. What happened It's just added to the debt. You know you get back and you're like, okay, that's Amazing trip, indelible memories with the family and the parents and the kids and Um, then you get back and you're You know, it's a kick in the teeth because you're like. And we thought about it Yeah think you would bring it up in financial conversations It would be like, well, you decided that we should go and now we spe ye, so it would turn into like almost like ammo sometimes, I feel like. And then, you know, I'm, Ohh, well I did it for the kids and the and your parents. And you know, so it would turn it definitely turned into a sticking point. How often does that happen that you did this, you said that You see a therapist N anymore. we did. It's been a while money Partially, it's expensive. But our therapist was one hundred and seventy five dollars. A pop is expensive. It's very expensive. And you mentioned in your application you don't. even have money bankruptcy attorney. Yeah in that Mexico conversation where you talked about, should we go? No, we shouldn't What was the role that each of you played. If you look back at that conversation. I was the driver and the planner hundred percent. You were the one who wanted to go Okay, and then you planned the trip Yep. This is parents involves. Okay. And what was your role come along and Try not to spend too much while we're there Really? M some money before we go, make the money when we come back. Like what was a time in Mexico where you were like, let's not order that because it's too much money Well, I think we did Not once But we didn't we were like we're not like super extravagant when we do travel, but like we did have a, your mom wanted a private chef for the week. Did your parents offer to pay? They paid for part of it. Okay. Yeah. And was there a conversation where you said, like, hey, right now, it's not a good time. Could you help or we can't do that? I definitely for moments like that 's been parents have been very generous. o. Hey, let us cover the house. Or something. Yeah. Yeah. Even still you spent three and a half thousand dollars on it. Yeah The fact that this couple is clearly intelligent And still in almost a hundred thousand dollars of debt is a big lesson for everybody watching this show, which is Intelligence matters, off course, it matters But just being smart doesn't mean you're going to be wealthy In fact, just being smart doesn't even mean you're going stay debt free. A lot of you are too smart for your own good Thinking, oh, we'll just figure it out. We'll just solve it You know, maybe instead of being too smart for your own good, maybe I'd rather take a ten point decrease in the IQ and be like, shit, I don't understand this. I better read a book. I won't be able to figure this out unless I learn. So before you come, writing a bunch of angry comments, As yourself, is there a world I could be in this situation too know, I'm kind of struck Speaking to both of you, you're obviously very intelligent. I'm hearing words like vicissitudes, intrepidacious You know, like you're going to L Paz, like when we put all those things together obbviously intelligent, yet You are, as you put it, a month away from an eviction notice. Yeah What do you both think is going on here I've gotten very used to Money being here or not here and I just have to adapt And that's I got kicked out when I was a teenager. So I've been like on my own, supporting myself since I was seventeen. I'm just so used to being in a state of not having anything that is just's I guess it's comfortable for me. It doesn't worry me well didn't worry me that much. Also because I had like I feel like I had so long to fix the problem. I had so much time, you know, it was like so for me, it was just like Hey, man, money comes when you goes. I've had money taken from me by bad relationships, things like that. So I'm just used to be even if I have it, being able to likeake see it as like a permanent fixture that could help me do anything. So I'm just very I think that's part of my issue where I'm just like, ye, it'll work itself out. Okay Money comes and money goes Um However, you know, when you get through periods They're sometimes out of your control and money is not coming. then you're really faced with some dire situations is that Aceptable? Like, are you cool with it? Have you done that before? You can do it again? There's always been a bit of a safety net or You know, some freelance gigs that I can pick up quickly in the last few years. It's That safety net has shrunk. savings have shrunk. We've used it to cover some stuff here and there. to pay down a card or Whatever, you know, we just had that now that safety net is gone the savings from all the years. four hundred one K is cashed out poor financial decisions made, but to cover monthly Who made those decisions together, I think. I mean, I think I definitely suggested Stuff like the four one K or whatever likeike and you agreed to do it. I could tell you were a lot more hesitant than I was. But I feel like we felt like it was in a time during the pandemic when neither one of us was working. Yeah. And it was like, and was I think we had a baby, and I was pregnant. And it was like Are you always the driver of the finances in this relationship? Yes. Okay. And your role is you're along for the ride Is that along for the ride? Maybe putting up some slight resistance, but basically along for the ride. That's what I'm reading. Yeah. I tend to be like, okay finances are You know I constantly think of them and I don't I try really limit spending. Like I don't buy A lot of stuff Right This is common with men. Yeah. But when he says, I am a spender, it's also because I do all the planning, I do all the kids stuff, I do the grocery shopping, I do everything. So I feel like and it's a point of contention. I always say this. I'm like, well, yeah, you're spending any money because you're not doing any of the things I need to be done. I't hear him say that you are a spender Whatould you say? Okaykay, we've had this conversation before and I feel like he's like, I'm the spender and he's the not spender I hate this dynamic. In a heterosexual relationship, the woman is the one who's Cracking everything She's worrying because she sees the numbers and then you have the guy who's like, ah, I don't really pay attention to it very much. It causes an ever increasing rift because she is down in the weeds necessarily when people are in the weeds taking on all this emotional labor and he's oblivious to it. It's just not partnership Look, everybody has blind spots. You do, I do. My guests certainly do And that's okay What's important is to recognize those blind spots, whether it's on your own or with the help of your partner, and then make a plan to fix it Before my wife and I got married, we were having serious discussions about money, and we ended up getting stuck It was pretty hard to have these conversations. One of the things that she suggested was that we go and see a couple's therapist And it actually turned out to be a complete game changer for our relationship. So if you have been thinking about working with a therapist to get on the same page with your partner Check out Gr therapy to get started very quickly. Grow therapy makes it easy to find a therapist that fits you, not the other way around. 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It's like What hole to plug first because maybe we're a little late on rent and a couple of the utilities and like so it's like plug those holes up Oh, but here comes summer camp. What are we gonna do It feels like a scramble. It feels like it comes in and it's gone quickly because we're patching holes. So you're making decisions about what bill to pay, including some of your fixed costs like rent or utilities. What about the non fixed cost? So you mentioned summer camp. Yeah or let's say eating out, trips, whatever the non discretionary. What about that When we have it, we spend it And then when we don't, we panic. And that's literally how it feels. It's just like pure panic Otherwise, I'm like, o, we have a couple extra hundred dollars. Let's just go to dinner this one time. R. You know, and then it's like, oh, well so and so really wants to go we should try to reneurture that relationship. And here we are at dinner doing the same thing we always do What do you get out of it Honestly for me, it feels like just a minute of escape. Eescape from that's going on financially, which is like completely backwards, I know. That's what it feels like. I can forget about it for a minute Enjoy it for a second and then worry about it later. And Blake, I'm V veryy similar to that. You know, kick the can down You know live in the moment Have that good time, work your butt off money back a very sort of myopic take on it Yeah and not no real future planning at all. frankly. And it's yeah, it's and that weighs on you, you know, that wayays emotionally that's You have that moment, that dinner out or whatever, and then you're like, oh my God, we spent, you, a thousand dollars on dinners this month. It weighs on you, but it seems like not enough to make a change. Well, only recently have we made those changes? What changes? We I cut down on all of our subscriptions. I got I bought a software thing to do budgeting. So we've been like I've been really paying attention. It's only been like a month, but like I'm very invested in like keeping track of things now, which isn't the same as saving yet but I'm like I couldn't even told you where I was spending money before. Has anything in the relationship dynamic changed around money in the last month? I mean, we have done weekly, sit down, save all of our receipts I've tried to do weekly sit downs. We've done it twice and we have not done it in three weeks. The dynamic seems to have been Freya You drive it and often you are also contributing to spending without knowing where the money's going is along for the ride there's not real collaboration. And so even when you are trying to make a change in the last month, it's just you doing more That's one hundred percent how it feels. I've done this before. This is not the first time I've tried to get our finances in order try to make. Maybe if I try again Yeah. Mbe And then time it'll work Thisim it's gonna to be better. but it's literally the same thing. I end up giving up because it feels like I'm doing everything. Why don't you do it differently? I don't know how, I guess. I can't figure out like I feel like I can't do it by myself. I don't know. I feel I guess so Why don't you do it differently? I get to say, well I tried. And when you say that What does it feel Like It's not my fault M. I think it's definite like me being able to shift some blame and be like, well, I don't know. Okay. I can't do it alone. Yeah And then Blake She's setting up the meetings, but you have not taken on a role an active role in this. What do you get out of that Jott Anxiety. you get that, then why don't you change question. I mean, it's not tough. yeah, I need to change. I mean, I don't know why I don't Think about it Yeah, I don't I'm not sure the real from my perspective, I'm not him I've been to lots of therapy in my life though. And I'm just like, you know, you just you've had a life when you were growing up where responsibility wasn't really a thing. You know, It's like a very privileged upbringing. in your opinion, what is Blake getting out of this complete avoidance doesn't have to deal with it. someomeone else will take care of the problem. Which is you. Which is me right now. Freya, you called Blake an ostrich with money? I think I ye. I think I understand what that means. And do you accept that comment? Would you agree that you are an ostrich with money? one hundred percent. Okay I just try to make more money. And then Talk about it. Yeah Maybe the conversations will go away. Yes.. I just make more thenen we don't have to talk about this for another month. And maybe one day, maybe never h classic. That's what's going That's descriptive. that doesn't tell us what to do about it. I need to look at the numbers. Can we take a look? Yeah. Okay, what was it like putting the conscious spending plan together You don't know I did that kill ag. A That answers my question. So you didn't do it together. Why not? Is that the instructions? I did share it with him, but I had already done it because I was like, I you sent the link, you go, here it is, FYI and then you checked off one of those noteepads. Exactly kindind of missing the spirit.id first. We actually sat down on the couch and went through. Did you look through it? think? Oh ye ye. And what was that like for you king, you know, that like what we have fiveive hundred, whatever. seven hundred seven dollars in subscriptions. Yeah. Okay. Pbscriptions,et c. we didn't know. Insurance on a on our house. You know, that we rented in Venice It hadn't gotten canceled with our car. There wasund a bundle that was unbundled when I canceled. Yeah. So you're paying a lot of money you didn't realize. What else shock at the amount of Money we spend on food monthly You remember how much that was I think we're in the three thousand range. abbove three thousand with groceries and eating out And all those. And so you saw that number and what was your reaction We need to figure out a new N system. All right Did you? We, you know switched grocery stores. talked about food that we eat. What do you eat for three thousand dollars a month We eat really really well at home Okay. we are not like what does that mean I mean Frree is a Chef You know, she is an amazing cook and We eat like we're at a restaurant almost every night. Okay. and it is a Luxury and it's amazing. All right, let's take a look at these numbers. Actually, what does it feel like to look at these numbers? I'm a little nervous. I don't remember every single number that was on there I haven't looked at it since. So How long has it been since you put this together U I guess about a month.. All right. Can you read me the word in bold and the number next to it for this entire box? Assets thousand dollars Investments one hundred and eighty dollars. Savings, zero ninety six thousand one hundred and seventy nine Total net worth minus ninety thousand nine hundred and ninety nine dollars. What does it feel like to see those numbers? Nauseating Blake, what about for you Fes awful Did you know these numbers Okay. I mean, especially the deebt numbers and assets. Yeah yeah, I know these numbers What is the debt M mostly credit card That's credit card debt I think I have some back taxes on my small business that I started. I think that's about it most of it's credit card What does it mean to you when you see these numbers? Like when you look at the numbers What is the meaning that you draw from it Honestly for me, it feels failure It looks like failure especially with kids. What about for you, Blay I was going to say failure as well Yes pressing to look at these numbers for happy As hard as, you know, you work to try to get ahead and then you know, that's where that's where you are is just like Devastating And you kind of look back and be like, for decades, and be like, what small shifts could I have made in behaviors and spending or whatever? Yeah. And what's the answer I mean, so many things. First of all, you know credit just made some smart fiscal decisions and said no more or said yes to things like the discussion about personal finances or actually embrace the personal finance and look at it. Yeah. I mean Its is brutal I mean, it's brutal. It's tough because like for me I love my kids, but I'm like I don't think we were in a position to have two kids when we did, honestly. And looking at back at that, I was like, that is a decision I could have made differently But of course, talking about your children And then when I did, I wasn't working And I'm like, I could have tried harder maybe to like get more work somehow and just paying attention like I didn't pay attention in like in the years where I was working and it was easier for me to make money. I wasn't paying attention to where it was going. I didn't I didn't do. I used to say was no one taught me what to do with money, but I also didn't teach myself like And I know that's a cop out now So I was like, my parents toaght me nothing about money. They had a terrible relate. and I put a lot of blame on them. and only recently am I like You know, there's the internet, there's book, there's classes, like I could have done so much more. And I just Did it? Are you doing it now I mean, I'm trying, it's like I'm like reading it books and I am trying to like work on getting more skills so I can find more work. But it's like it feels so late in the game Depressing is like definitely a word that I would use. but I look at this, I'm like, what can I do now? It does feel depressing. It feels daunting Let's keep going down the rest of the CSP. So let's talk about the income. Blake, can you read off? Bind monthly gross income Combined monthly gross income is eleven thousand nine hundred and thirty three You two combine make one hundred forty three thousand dollars a year Did you know that I mean, I did. You did, okay. And Blake did you know that? I knew it was around that What do you think about the income I think it's Not where we need to be, not where I want to be. Is it a good income? Bad income depends on your situation and how you want to live, I think how we're Currently how we have been operating in the past seven years. It's not a great income at all. You two were living like you made a lot more. Yeah How much do you think income the lifestyle you were living was Two fifty. Two fifty. That's sort of where we were I think that I think that's part of the problem. We used to make that much. Yeah I used to make A six figure, low six figure salary. Okay. And then you made money as well. Yeah. So combine, you were making what? two hundred fifty. P probably two My salary twenty two twenty five. And then wow, that's a lot of money. plus bonus and that it's like So've you've come down from let's just say two hundred fifty to one forty I'm guessing you didn't change a lot of expens and added two kids It was just a cast like an avalanche of expenses and responsibilities. that we didn't combined with exterior D the things that have happened with, you know, economy and wa, wait, wait. what about the interior stuff though, the decisions that you made We didn't we never talked about it We just things changed and we just kept doing what we were doing, you know, and just avoiding it. We just avoided it. And there' like no way around it. We just avoided it. And we also lived in like, you know, the people that our friend group and our circle all made way more money even before we started. and I definitely feel like there was a leaning into it and we did not. the brakes on.ike it didn't matter that I wasn't working We did the exact same things we were doing anyways I can understand the challenge of going from two fifty. to one hundred forty. That's hard. Yeah. I don't think many people have experienced what that's like. At two hundred fifty you can spend without having to track a lot of stuff. onene forty with kids with debt. with additional expenses, You're not in the same ballpark I can understand that. I can understand Avoiding decisions for a while that I can understand What I can't understand is why you haven't made a radical change right now. The only change that I've really heard is we got an app I am looking through the numbers That's about it I did do sub stuff. like we I cut our subscriptions down to I think we're down to two hundred and fifty. Some of them are for work stuff, so we can't get rid of all of them. Okay I did change When he said, we changed grocer stores. I did research. I didn't know. And I started shopping at different grocery stores We got rid of our babysitter So I've been we did make changes. I have made changes I you know Yeah now When we stop Blaming, moving making tinkering changes and we just have to be still It gets very quiet and then we have to be like, uh oh There's nobody coming to save us Have you gotten to that point yet I was going to say yes, but I don't think I have because I haven't changed anything Yes Let's take a look at the rest of the numbers. invvestments are at one percent That's sixty dollars going to a post tax retirement account. Savings are at zero And then everything else is guilt free spending. is negative two percent, which we know is not accurate. Y' all are eating out Just that at a minimum plus any other trips and whatever else So that's not accurate.. Freya, can you read off the fixed cost number? one hundred and two percent hundred and two percent What does that mean It feels like a joke. like What does it mean specifically just It means we're living way beyond our means. It means you are broke. Yeah. It means you arere spending more than you make Every month every month. That's the ball game. Right there, notothing else matters right there That's everything. It means that whatever money you are bringing in, you are spending more just to keep your fixed costs In other words, the lights on There is no tinkering around the edges that will solve that And When you tell me that you have zero dollars in savings, what this tells me is you are actually weeks away from not being able to pay your rent This is the problem This is one of the worst financial situations that I have seen on this show And I was shocked that it was almost ninety thousand dollars of high interest debt That is justust on its face, almost impossible to get out of. Then I see the one hundred and two percent fixed costs They are spending more than they make every single month with no savings. What can I do here? Sometimes I also think about what kids in situations like this are going to be learning. Am I going to see these children on my own show thirty years from now They're coming on and telling me, my parents taught me anything about money My parents weren in severe debt they covered up. I don't want that. I'm trying to change these generational cycles So when I hear that A couple is in this kind of debt Eespecially high interest debt because they overspent. And they have two kids like That is a real problem for me A lot of people come to me with the idea that I have some secret magic math formula. I definitely do not. I can guarantee that. Let's go. what. But I think what often ends up happening is this becomes the place that they can finally stop spinning actually get quiet and still and realize what the real issues are. What do you think the real issues are now that we are looking at your CSP and seeing Tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt, no savings, effectively, no investments, two children. What are the real issues here, Blake avoidance lack of ivity operating out of a kind of a negative Face and justust fix it with more income C of mentality constant search for more income. Yes and not being a as good of a partner. to Freya And taking some more responsibility to really sit down and put my really earnest effort. into solving some of those issues and really facing like tougher decisions that we probably should make in the in nature You ever said that out loud before I've said similar things but it's about action and not words. Yeah. Freya, what about you? What's the real issues going on here? I think a lot of it for me is feeling siloed, like we're not in a partnership. And I think that's hard for me because then I feel like I have to do it But then I can't and then I stop. and it's like this cycle of just not I don't know, just doesn't I feel like I'm doing it by myself, but I'm not doing anything. I mean, as recently as three to four weeks ago, you downloaded an app. Yeah. You're taken on more. I think I feel a little helpless in this situation to do it. Like I don't know. I just feel I feel lost. I' just I look at it. it feels daunting and overwhelming. And what about for each other Like, I didn'tar you mention anything about Blake's complete absence from the it. I think that's right. feeling siloed. like I just I feel like We end up we end up fighting about it and it's really hard for me to want to push the conversations because it so often ends negatively And then yeah, and then it just we just go back into our usual like MO's and I do all the stuff and then I get frustrated, But yeah, I don't know. it's like I feel like I need a partner. You know, Mother and Father's Days are coming up and I have a great gift idea for you to give to them. Give them a subscription to Masterclass, this episode's sponsor. 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I'm not amber of FASet, and I have an incentive to endorse FASet as I have an ongoing fee based contract for cash compensation based on this endorsement All opinions are my own and not a guarantee of a similar outome How much you think you spend on guilt free spending Or let's call it discretionary spending in this case. There's a lot of guilt. Yeah. I't. How much you think you spend if you, you know you eat out, let's say how many times a week? A month, more like three times a month. Three times a we really pretty good about that. And then clothes, vacation personersal care. I mean, it's gotta be at least tw thousandelve hundred dollars At least at least Kids A lot of that would probably be the kids' stuff, like they're clothes and e like we don't take them to eat out, but like Dirre ging. They They have tennis lesson One of them is in tennis, onene of them takes dance. Yeah I ask a question. Yeah For a couple that's in almost a hundred thousand dollars of credit card debt Do their kids get to go to tennis lessons I mean Ours do, and they probably shouldn't the scarcity thing of how I was raised and how I always made it work. and I think that's part of my problem. L How were you raised? Oh, I didn't get to do anything. I was homeschooled. I was not allowed to do no lessons, no fun. Like It was just not a thing that we did. We did not go on vacations. We did not do, you know, it Money was very, always very scarce or I was told, anyways, was we didn't have any. And wasn't that true Now I know it wasn't necessarily true Um, they weren't, you know suuper well off, but they were middle class. And Why'd they tell you that I don't know if it was the religion part of it. I think that might have had a big part of, you know, just not spending. And then there was ups and downs with my, you know, my dad was the only one working. Got it. And then I was all on my own at seventeen So it was literally just hand to mouth for a really, really, really long time. Hand to mouth, what does that mean to you? Like slept on a train when I first moved to New York. Like you didn't anywhere to go. Yeah. Do you remember any specific phrases that they said about money phrases, no. We can't afford it. Yeah, we don't have it. Honestly, we just I just don't ask for anything. Were you an only child? No? What a five? Oh really?. And I just remembered to lay away. Wow, Cose like Winter coats on layay. Are your siblings in similar financial situations Yes All of them. the one with one exception You mentioned Your family was religious. Tell me a little bit about that while hardcore Jehovah's witness Parkc. I did not go to school I was taken out of school when I was ten Wow So no formal education until I was sevent I applied for fashion school. Like I gota school diploma from my home schoolool. And I applied to the fashion school, got in on my own steam and did that for a couple of years and that's how I ended up being able to have a career later But yeah, didn't go to high school. Everything I know I had to learn on my own. Like I would go to the library and like study things because It was just, here's what you have to do to graduate. Every year I I never got any actual education. Are you still religious? Oh God, Okaykay. And your siblings. spiritual, but I'm not religious. What about your siblings? They're not religious either., absolutely not Even my dad's not in the religion anymore. Is that right How do you think your religious upbringing affected your view of money A lot of it did go to the church And I was very resentful of A lot of it. I think I have a big had a big resentment towards that whole thing because I wasn't allowed to be educated When I was talking about what job I would want to support myself, it was like, be a locksmith so you can go preach God's word during daytime hours and you can work it Yeah, so there was lot it was like very deprivation scarcity kind of mindset. And I think that had a lot to do with it. I had I realized really early on that I would have to be completely self reliant which I feel like also translated to' like, well I'm gonna Do whatever I need to do for me to feel good. And a lot of that translates to not saving, not denying myself stuff because you were denied so often as a kid. What about the relationship here. How do you think that your religious bringing has affected your relationship with Blake . Okay, well, when it comes down to saying no to one's self. I feel like I found a kind of like my soulmate and not wanting to do that You don't say no to yourself Nor does he Yeah. And I feel like that it felt kind of symbiotic in a way. L we both kind of have like the same kind of laisse fire you know, embrace life while you can viewpo And I think that's one of the reasons we clicked in the first place, just like kind of our similar outlooks. That outlook being let's say yes, let's take the day on, let's enjoy what life has to offer. And also work hard and like in hustle and we both have a really big hustle mentality. hustle mentality. It works until it doesn't You can. Yeah, you can hustle when your fixed expenses are low. And when you're twenty five. When you're twenty five. Yeah. But when you have high fixed costs including. ninety k of debt When you have two children Hustling stops working We are realizing that now. How did feel for Freya? Hearing how she grew up in a way that most of us cannot fathom. kicked out of her house at seventeen Just imagine what type of upbringing. Somebody had to go through in order for that to happen. Be a Jehovah's witness having many siblings, none of whom are religious anymore and almost all of whom in similarly dire financial straits. There's obviously a lot going on when she grew up causes long lasting effects. Some of you ate pizza two days ago and the roof of your mouth is still burned and you're complaining about it. Oh so difficult my life. It is quite illuminating That Freya was kicked out of her house at seventeen And here she is maybe weeks away from being kicked out of her house as an adult as a mother. The ways that we grow up often show up for us as adults. They're often inescapable unless we make huge changes What about you What do you remember your family saying about money when you were young We don't talk about money. we're southern. Okay I grew up in the Bible belt, man. you know, you don't talk about money. Wow. You don't talk about emotions. you know Sweep it under the rug Right? I Cru Eastern Tennessee You know Wealthy or felt Privileged for sure. Why didd you feel that My dad was a doctor in the small town. There was not lay awayay was not a thing for us Um, take trips You know, the annual summer trip And what did that teach you The fact that you grew up privileged, like what was your feeling about money My feeling about money was I just didn't give it much thought, frankly. I never talked to my parents about it. In fact when confieded it to my dad that were on to do this show last a couple days ago He ironically said, It's going to be really nice. It must be nice to be able to talk to someone about that, right? Wow. And I was like Yeah, what it would have been twenty years ago to get a little. Wish I would have asked You know, wish I would have dug a little deeper because I know There's information there. Yeah. I didn't know that my parents struggled With their mortgage, at one point we had to ask them, hey, can we borrow five K or whatever? ten K because we're about to you know get evicted And they were like, abbsolutely, we can help you out You know, It was a bandaid, but it was so helpful and we're very grateful. But then they confided and let us know that they too had a similar issue. There were points in their lives that they, you know, didn't know if they were going to make their mortgage, et cetera. And was like I was like, reallyally? I've been shocked to know that. Never heard any of that before. I think the main takeaway from My parents that I can remember was invest Roth IRA, like burnt into the brain. That I actually don't think that that's on here There is a Roth with eighteen K. Oh, I didn't know that in this that I've never told anyone about because I don't ever want to touch the roth. That's quite interesting. How did that not come up I don't want to cash it out. Is that for real? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know that if you bring that up into this dynamic, it will simply get drained. And I know the Roth I mean, from the little I know, I know Roth IRA is one thing that you absolutely shouldn't touch and everything else has been touched. So what does that feel like to hear that? I'm actually not, I thought I would be mad if I found something out like that, but I get it. You get it. I understand. And you know, I had a four hundred one K once upon a time too and somebody convinced me to take it out and I never saw it again. And it's so I get it. and I don't think it's in. I didn't realize that I was asking if you can blame B I just asked how it felt to hear that. I mean,s I'm surprised and I'm also kind of relieved in a way to know that There is still something there I feel a little bit of relief honestly, just to know that that There is something somewhere. Like what do you think that your look lessons about money What of those have you brought to this relationship Yeah I don't think I brought any tool to this relationship at all.ust I feel like you're being a little coi about your upbring. He went to boarding school. What's upike what? They went their yearly vacations were Like weeks long in Europe U I feel like he's w. How Quite interesting. How come you didn't bring that up Um, I mean, that was there was one But you guys you went to boarding school. Yeah, I' went to boarding school. It's different caliber of wealth than we might think like small town doctors. Exactly. Okay. That's interesting What is the What are these secret accounts coming out of nowhere when they're down to one hundred and eighty bucks in their investment account? At first, it's like, ah, very comfortable. My dad was a little country doctor Then The hidden IRA Where did that come from? I certainly didn't know about it. And boarding school Two secrets To things that provide a ton of color but just gloss over. that kind of changes the story. kind of tells me you have a different view than what I was led to believe. The funniest part of this, by the way, is that I only caught ono this because I glanced at Freya's face. As I've always said, the partner knows best When someone is not telling the full story, I just One foot to the left There you go. First of all, I'm not okay with people hiding things from me If you come here You want help So why would you lie when I'm trying to help you? But second is just another way recreating this dynamic of Blake not getting into the details of staying superficial or vague and not engaging with the meat real fact of the matter We gott to make a change on this one So no lessons from that. Like let me put yourself I'm putting myself in your shoes. I groww up in the South wealthy family I never really have to worry about money. I get the things I want And we travel, we see the world. and then I grow up And I make Six figures, living a pretty good life And then I blink my eyes and I find myself in ninety thousand dollars of debt potentially about to be evicted I'm kind of like, I don't understand what happened here But I just need to keep earning money because if I just make money, then I can have the type of childhood or type of relationship that we had growing up Where did I go wrong How much of that is accurate? Very, very accurate. It's I've always had hadad strong income, good worth ethic I think you didn't need to develop any serious skills around own money I think that you grew up Your family provided provided very well, didn't teach you much, right When didd you start making a lot of money? thirties, thirties. right? madeade it, spent it. Develop no real skills for saving. investing But you know what, A lot of people grow up. privileged with their pares not telling them about money, but they don't get into ninety thousand dollars of debt. What do you think happened here differently I was just Ver Peter Pan S I'm on a good roll here positive Outlook. Yeah know, tootally naive of like, this will lead to more and with each year that salary is going to get a little bigger. Things are on my side, not thinking about a worst case scenario, never like imagining like, oh Wow Big things can shift and I have no security blanket and life doesn't always go up. Yeah Pting things on credit card, paying down. I mean, I never, that whole time, I never missed a credit card payment, you know, it would pay them down U And then that just became a little more comfortable to put there Um comfort Yeah.'s mention early on. Yeah. and not saying no I don't I'm not Crontation is not good like I Confrontation has always been a problem for me. or really standing up even if I think like This is not a good idea. I'd rather just go with the bad idea and deal with it later. What if I told you that? in order to succeed with money or frankly, in order to not get evicted you will need to confront the very thing that you have avoided your entire life Confrontation. I had a feeling you were gonna say that. Yeah, I mean, we have to. I have to forord for Freya and frankly for my children because because it's know very emotional because you want the kids to have great future and experiences. And I'd rather them know the problems we're having now thenen like try to hide it. Yeah like your family did. I mean, you made the choice to come on here. They're gonna see this one day. Yeah. What do you think about that? Good. I mean, fine. I'd rather like, you know strip down naked and tell the truth and let hopefully someone learn from it. them or someone elseude don't make the mistakes that that guy made Yeah, you know, That' that is the kind of energy that I have not seen today, but that tells me You might be ready to make a change Yeah It's very courageous. I think it's a gift that your kids are going to see this one day Because look at what happened that your parents didn't teach you. They were very privileged, your family. They could have taught you about When times are good And when times were not, that is an opportunity. they did not Even today, your dad goes, Oh, it must be nice. L There's an opportunity for a lesson and They couldn't do it for whatever reason. That was their time and their style. Okaykay, but you too can I think that's my As we're thinking about coming airs, that's my goal. L make that make that change so the plane lands in a different area for them You know, Yes. and and actually for you too And for us too, yeah. yeah This is a really difficult situation They're going to have to make huge changes that they are unaccustomed to But seeing Blake strip down, basically say, I'm ready to make a change and cry Pat tells me that there is hope. Most people in a bad financial situation struggle to even acknowledge that it's a problem People will make endless justifications for it's not so bad or at least we're not as bad as our neighbors here you can see that Blake is actually acknowledging They're in a bad situation And that is the first step to making a plan that's going to get them out of it We need to go back to the numbers now Now that I understand a little bit more about how you grew up, and I want to see these numbers are specifically line by line. Okay take a look under your Fixed costs. Y rent is three thousand four hundred and eighty dollars, which is twenty nine percent of take home pay.. Bad In and of itself, it's a little higher than twenty eight percent, but these days that's difficult to hit But It doesn't give you any real margin for extra stuff. Did you know that Yeah. You knew that when you downskilled from Venice to go to Washington You chose that. I was making more money at the time Okay, got it. So you're making more money And you're making less now. So nowad days you're making two thousand two hundred dollars a month. I' making about half of what I was making for. All right. Utilities four hundred fifty, insurance four hundred and eighty eight, car payment six hundred thirty six. Does that include gas as well? I have one it's a lease and it's electric so we don't pay for that. But then we have another car, a second car that we own outright and that's f. Do you need two cars? W That's a good answer. S enough said. When you s, I said Goodbye car. nice knowing you. No need to tell me we'll get to that, but enjoy the last twelve minutes with your car because that thing's f. Thank you for the sign Det payments are two hundredars ninety, there's no way. No,'s because I mean, that's the other part. We have not been making the credit card payments A all How mean the minimum? I think late in the last couple of months, when it's been They would just stopped. So is it in collections It just hit collections last. likeike last week or last month, Yeahah. When you saw that What was your reaction? When I saw it, I mean, I knew it was coming in I was like, I think bankruptcy is probably The answer. So I reached out to him bankruptcy laawyer and then we learned the cost of that. and it's like, oh my Godd, five. What was your reaction then hang tight and figure out how to do how to couple the money together for the bankruptcy lawyer. The pattern here is a very superficial engagement with money. It's like Don't. pay any attention to it I'm fast forwarding a lot getet a collections notice And just like, all right, what's the fastest way out of this? Call a bankruptcy attorney. No engagement with the numbers. No I guarantee you have not picked up a book or done something differently because of that collections notice, not even doing your regular meetings Just like, what's the most surface level thing that can get this away from me becausecause it feels bad You notice that pattern? You cannot delegate your way out of this. You can't, You cannot stay at the surface level. And actually the hardest part of this transformation is in the weeds and it's the only way out Groceries are tw thousand two hundred dollars and that's down from over three thousand. That is down from It was a little over three K Clothes fifty, phone two hundred sixty, subscriptions are three hundred seventy five, and that's down as well. Phone's gone down too. I kicked my kids off the phone plan. I've been paying for my adult children's phones for since they were ten Get intide on this. What Is wrong with all these parents in credit card debt paying for their adult childildren's cell phones Are you Kidding me. When I moved to New York, you know, I lived in this building is a nice building in my veryery nice naive parents from California came to help me move in. and you know they're like helping me push the card up the elevator. and they're looking around. they're like, wow, there's a lot of young people in this building. they must do very well, and I just laughed at them. I'm like, M, these kids' parents pay for their apartment. were flabbergasted.cause this doesn't happen on the west cooast as much as New York. They're like How can the parents afford to pay for their apartment?? I'm like, oh my God, it's so adorable. Now you don't know how this works. But yeah, here we are In Debt paying. Now, this opens up a whole can of worms. What else have you paid for your adult children Not a lot. honestly. No. And that is why I kept doing it because I had a lot, I felt guilty that I couldn't do more for them. And this was like for me it was like, it was like the bare minimum compa. D' you feel guilt about having you know, almost being evicted. Why notight? I don't even like de, first of all. No. So I'm being a bit facetious here about The guilt of not going on a trip, the guilt of not paying for my grown kids phones And my au pair is phone too. I had to kick her out. My old au pair that does not not work for us any longer. And yeah, no. I was like, this is insane. I don't know why. I don't know. I'll let you know I mean. I feel I think it is because again, when I was brought, I got nothing from my parents. I mean, I got kicked out. They gave me negative thing. They gave me negative. But you're about to get kicked out yourself. Yeah. So while I understand that your background has influenced the way that you give and perhaps even give when you can't You're about to lose it all. Yeah I would actually get angry. angry at myself Anggry at my uppring, angry at each other, angry at the dynamic that we have allowed ourselves to sink into. Why not Take that Why not decide what emotion you're gonna bring to bear and then channel it like a freaking magnifying glass till it lights this thing on fire? Why not that I like that No, I like this. this is I feel like I like that with so much of my rest of my life. Yeah. someomebody who has multiple freaking notepads knows what it's like to focus their inter. I like that with the rest of my life. And it's just it's been a weird, I don't know how like it got here finance, except for like I do psychologically, I know I've been used to people taking from me I've been used to not having. I've been used to be able to make it up And it's just like it's not working anymore. You made decisions over and over and over again that brought you here. Y. Like can we can catalogue. There was Mexico, there's paying for adult children. There's not saying no. there's not having meetings. There's not even knowing that you're spending thousands of dollars a month on groceries These are compounding over time. R? And they're certainly not adjusting your expenses when you cut your income All of these things worked in tandem like a magnifying glass and they lit a fire too. The fire just happened to be a hundred thousand dollars of credit card deb Continuing along, we have childcare for fourteen hundred and kids activities for one hundred and seventy three And then miscellaneous which is one thousand three hundred and twenty dollars. Would that be fair Pretty close. Yeahah. ye Childcare, can you just walk me through that? So You have child carere? The youngest ones still in preschool And there's no free pre K where we live. How long until That changes. August. And then how much will you save fourteen hundred dollars. It's like That's good. Yeah, no, that's great. Good, let's keep going. Investments, you have sixty dollars going. All right. Yeah. Savings are zero. And then y' all have what else for We talked about eating out, what else s in art supplies What's art That's an Indian person's answer. What's art I mean, I do sell my pieces Don't do that. Let's be intellectually honest I would say I spend at least a hundred dollars a month on Go ahead, Blake. I would say at least. C I get an accurate number? Give me the ceiling, not the floor between Ross, Michaels and Books and machines that make things Um, there it's probably If we averaged out three hundred. Three hundred, three hundred a month. Okay. What do you make of me going through these numbers? Blake What are your surprises? I'm not m surprised by a lot of the here Yeah. I mean I'm surprised at how little we have in a certain situation, but Um, Are you surprised by anything Yeah are in action. I'm shocked That we can look that we looked at this and we're like, cool Let's go to dinner next week It doesn't even feel like myself. Like you know what? it's almost like it's happening to somebody else That's kind of what it feels like to look at that and be like, I just feel like there's like this huge chasm between me and those numbers for some reason. Yes. And it's it's honestly frankly annoyed with my going off You should be pissed pissed. Yes, I am pissed in order for me to help you Make a change. I need to know Right now, you are essentially just You're still spending the way you used to spend cutting this down by two hundred dollars is going to make no difference.. We got to start blank page. So I want to know rich life, but rich life Starting from where you are today. What is your rich life? In other words, it can't be we're gonna retire in five years. That's not going to happen. your? through rich life based on where you are today I think a rich life would be Be our kids in some extracurricular activities that's the first Part of your rich life is spending money on your kids letting them do some things, okay, you know, not taking all of that because they get so much joy out of that Um, what else? you know, family trips, whether that's camping or whatever. What role does the debt play in your rich life? It would feel great to start Just addressing that head on so I can sleep at night and not have to worry. It's quite interesting that Kids came first, then trips Not mention of debt until I brought it up What does that tell you It's not forefront. Yeah that I'm avoiding it. Yes. You're not there yet. until you actually confront the reality that you probably have to pull your kids out of certain activities if you want to get out of this deb then we're stuck I was actually S shocked. you didn't say get rid of our debt first and start saving towards our retirement. L that's That's what be my rich life is to know that. Tell me, what is it that we pay down this debt And we have a savings account for the months when we know it's going to be light on income. And also, you know, for my rich life, I want to work. And it's like it's not because I know don't want to. worked since I was fifteen years old. and it's like so for me, having a fulfilling career where I'm getting paid to contribute more to our family so we can do all that stuff was definitely High on my list. Okay. so increasing the income Yeah, paying off the debt Okay I just don't want to have to like worry about it every day waking hour That's's like honestly, that's all I need because I'm not like stressed out by it every waking moment. Every waking hour. The way that you will begin to stop feeling this ever present anxiety is by making a plan You have no plan. You have no plan Even when I asked, the plan was like, well, we got to put the kids in these activities We gott to make a plan for the debt. We gott to make a plan for savings Like we have made almost a decade's worth of decisions that got us here We gott to make rapid B changes to shift it. Okay. So do we agree on that? We have to make big changes and they have to be fast. Yeah great I'm gonna to put the CSP back up on screen. Okay When I do that We know that Our typical goal is to bring that fixed cost number down to sixty percent Okay. in your case It's going to be a little different because you have debt, which means that sixty percent is going to go up We'll deal with it. Okay Here we are as a reminder, you're spending one hundred two percent of your take home pay on fixed costs is unsustainable You will Lose your house very soon. So We're going to do an exercise where each of you bounces back and forth and you make a change to your CSP So the goal here is to make big Bold changes fast. We don't wantan to get stuck in the weeds. Who wants to start?ctually I already know what we' start. C. You're starting We're gonna sell some of our art supplies. The biggest change feel like would be The house. You want to rent a smaller house? I just don't know if that makes sense if it cost of moving If we save a one thousand dollars a month on a smaller place Well we have talked about it. I know that. You talked about it. I have talked about it and brought it up a lot. And what was your reaction My reaction was We're just concerned that the cost of moving will mitigate any savings throughout the next year. You were concerned. Yeah. This is your way of not making changes. You express concern Now concern is fine, but concern is just like a way to put the brakes on any changes. I can tell you right now your moving costs, especially because you can economize, you not get these fancy movers, move it yourself, okay Saving a thousand dollars a month is huge It compounds over time. Huge. Massive in your case Do you think that realistically you could find a place that you would save a thousand dollars a month on close to it, I've been looking and I want to stay in the same school district for the kids Yeah. And we can How much? a thousand? eight hundred? What's real estate? Let's say eight hundred to be conservative. All right. Okay, wow, that's a big change. Take a look at this number, the one hundred two percent We're down to ninety four percent. goingo in the right direction. Well done.. Nice Fr, what do you Big changes. Well, like I said, the car We could probably be fine with one car. It's hard, but it's very suburban so it can be tough, but we we could do it. How much are you gonna to save? four hundred and eighty dollars. You serious? forty four.. forty four month And actuallyctually more too, because then their assurance will go down. Yes Let's call it five hundred just to be thirty six Our gas prices will go up though. Okay Let's a number. What's the number say eighty nine. eighty nine percent. Well done. Keep going. What's next? Childcare will be goneten. Yeah. Chcare. Let's mark it off. Be August let's be o ocasional Yeah takeake the win Zzero Watch the numbers We're to to seventy five percent. This is actually going way better than I thought. I gotta take a second to celebrate. This is crazy Okay, b wow it feels so much better. Oh Oh, my phone already went down. It's only eighty dollars a month. Oh, really? Are you serious? Yeah. But I also found out we can go on a family plan and it'll only be one hundred and twenty on my phone I just need to move you Let's do that. Onever. Yeah. watch We're down now to seventy three percent. Okay. Wow What else? Keep going Kids activity, sorry I was waiting for that one do you want to put it? zero Can I make a suggestion?? I'm always for cutting kids activities when you're in debt Bye There's some other stuff here that's quite obvious that we could knock What misania? Miscellania. Like in what The world is a couple in almost one hundred k of debt spending one thousand three hundred and twenty dollars a month on miscellanous. Literally Yeah.m like I'm sorry to get mad but this is crazy. Like what even is that? I don't Yeah, what is it? We add that because couples don't they're loose, they don't track it. And we know this because you used to stand double or triple on your groceries. ple in this kind of debt cannot afford to have this loosey goosey buffer. They are meticulous Yeah. Okaykay? in your case, like we're talking about meticulous down to the level of we're not spending an extra thirty bucks out eating because the kids are crying. No, cry. We're going home O' big snack packers Is that pl? in your ro, the eating out is us. a hundred percent. And that's something we need to just Say no to. Love it. And can we just flip that instead of we need to? 'cause we're not doing that We are going to. We willisten not be eating out anymore. As a private chef, I cook We'll have people over for dinner. for that. Miscellaneous, I'm taking that down to two hundred because I'll give you two hundred a buffer, but that's it w hundred yeah, goodbye to books, like ever hear of a public library? Actually I actually do that too. I read Go to the library. I do. My d twowo hundred bucks watch a number We're down to sixty two percent. I actually kind of this mee neither We're not even done. Keep going. Don't stop. What else? Trim groceries a little bit? Yes. We can try nine hundred Oh Okay, I yes. withith four four people It's a little challenging. That's a little ch. you're a chef. Yes. And I like, come on. No, I'm like I can be more economical than I am Can you make it eight hundred I wouldn't say this to a normal family, but you're a chef. It's like, come on. Yeah, I have to just take the chef part out. Exactly. You can do the production part only. becausecause that's where it gets me. I'm like, Im grassmed Yeah. I'll do a good budget and I'll do this stopping and end up with that one thing Yeah we can't do that anymore. It It's really like the difference in, you know, a luxury hotel versus like we're just here for a clean room and that's it. Yeah. Chicken breast and brocoli it is. Exactly How much Tell me nine hundred I want to show you the reaction that you're giving me, which is you mentioned earlier on, for so much of life, I have gone through basically trying to like I'll figure it out or how much can I get away with? And I think that's the energy you're bring to this decision right now. And I would like to encourage you to flip that.. That energy of like, how much can I get away with? That actually does not work because look where we are So how much can I add to paying offer or debt? by changing Y. So tell me the number for groceries. Let's do eight fifty No, go more aggressive. You're way too smart. aggressive. You're way too smart Does that include ine and no, I'm guaranteeing you it does not. Did everybody catch that audio? Does that include wine? What's wine? Well, it's not what's wine? It's Yeahah, no, obviously. This is No, hear the answer.lud why. Oh my God, this is mean I couldn't script it. No, it doesn't, it doesn't yeah, it doesn't. And it doesn't include grass fed Beef and it doesn't include. Y'all ever hear of Sfeway Lucky A actually stop at Winko now. W Winko, love it.. Bag your own groceries.. I know it well. I I so good. Bulk section. They're so good. They're cheap. Okay. So I've That's like how we got it down to the twelve hundred. eight hundred fifty is not enough. You need to go more aggressive. You're in serious financial strait. What is it? seven fifty. Y seven fifty And and that's a peak. That's a peak. It will be no higher than seven hundred fifty. And if you can bring it down to seven hundred or even I I love a challenge. I yes. Let's see how long we get for everything in the pantry before I even go back to the. Bingo That's one of our Bingo. if you can defefray spending money or simply avoid it for like the equivalent of three weeks or four weeks That's literally thousands of dollars that you save. If That money can go right towards debt That's how you do it. As you can see, we're making changes on the CSP, but these are actually lifestyle and attitude changes. be creative enough provide for this family using my skills and paying the debt off aggressively Well done The number at fifty seven percent Come on. I I think you all need to give yourself a round of applause so far. Good job.s't I didn't I can't even clap because I I'm like, really? Can I really don't want to move Okay. I li there. We've moved a lot. Like We've moved our family so many times. So what are you gonna do then? Beause we need the number to be Lower If can we just see what it looks like if we keep it the old ran? Yeah, what was it thirtyty for eighty thirty four, eighty. All right, G goodood question. I like that you're asking. No. Hey, can we talk about this or that? That's great takes you back up to sixty five percent. Okay It's still not I also feel like I could make more money. Like talk to me. rightight now, I amm working ten hours a week How much can you make? I mean, realistically, I could work twentyw hours a week. I'd have to find a new source of that income. but I don't think it's an impossibility. Yeah. I think I should be at least at least able to bring that up to thir thousand two hundred do a month.' hundred a month. Right? It's another thousand dollars a month. I could do that. Okay And you to be I have to be more aggressive about the job se., I'm going to hard code this in to be ten thousand eight hundred, okay? It's not accurate, but it's in the bul. Yeah. Watch the number on fixed costs sixty percent Not bad. That's not bad Here's how I might think about it if I were in your situation. I might say Okay. We prefer not to move However, we need to get these numbers aggressively down, right If you can find a job in the next four weeks that generates a thousand dollars a month. Okay. Not six hundred, not eight hundred, a thousand dollars gross, we can stay If not We move. Like that is the level of decisiveness that you bring to this problem I'll be very motivated because I also don't want to move.. I've moved twenty times in life. Okay then it's very clear when he's happening. And your roles are very clear, which is like you have to provide You have to hit the numbers on the groceries.. and you have to find a job if you want this plan to work. And if not, you know exactly what's what you're gonna to do. Can I have an ask? Please. Can you help with the grocery stuff Can we do that together Yes. I hate doing it by myself. And then being also it feels like a lot of pressure to be like, I'm the only one that. Does it need to be both of you or can you just delegate that? Can he bring it and you cook? Let's make the menu together at least I would proposes that we Make the menu together, use our skylight. And plug it in there so we have all that stuff. when there's There's less less loosey goosey Im like how I didn't plan today. Yeah. What's like your skylight? What's our scheduling? It's like a c adult. Itside the family. okay. Okay ye. But who's gonna to pick up the groceries? I'll do. I don't mind doing it. I just feel like the planning part I would like to do together. Okay, great. So y'all need to make a time you do it. It needs to be on the schedule and there's no more unscheduled like re. Yeah go run and get this. Oh, I decided I'm making this today instead. I And because I do get tired of doing it sometimes, I that happens. So it would be nice and it'd be nice to do it together. All right, great Let's's look at the vault. Let's look at the rest of. Investments at sixty dollars. All right, fine we keep it. That doesn't really do anything, but okay. Savings are at zero. That's got to change. I just want to point out, at the look at the bottom of the CSP. You currently have four thousand dollars a month. That does not feel like a real number Yeah, it's real How look at. Lakes facey's like dog How? you know, by budgeting I'm sorry, by having a CS because you cut dramatically Yes. You cut a lot. you cut thousand dollars, you increase your income You may or may not U cut the rent You cut thousand bucks off of miscellaneous and then hundreds and hundreds of dollars from various things. is very impressive That means you have four thousand bucks a month distribute, how you want to use that money? savings Which one comes first No, savings. The kids. I think it's really hard to have that like Oh, wow, they might not have a roof over their head. Yeah, that's a big problem. Yeah. so I feel like savings, I do agree that savings is more important right now I can't believe I'm saying that to a couple in almost six figures of credit card debt but the fact is you have two kids and you are almost out of your house. That's you cannot allow that to happen. Do you see why I am moving so quickly You don't have time to decide about this or that, like you need the money now, which means any groceries that you were going to spend on, Because you have the pantry Yeah. The car Get rid of it as quickly as possible. All these other changes, immmediately stop and go back and double check the subscriptions because even an extra hundred dollars that you were about to spend like the phone You need it for savings. Yeah That's it. It's as simple as that. You have to attack it with ferocity. Yeah. Okay I think that we would want to look at a debt payoff plan, but in your case You can call the credit card and talk to them about you're in hardship. You need to make a plan that works with them And what can they do for you Okay. So there's several things. Your credit is going to be in trouble. Yeah It's already gone to collection. So even moving is going to be challenging for you. That's Yeahah. That's what's happened. So My credit is good. Yours Yeah. Okay now. but we're try and we're trying to keep it that way. Yeah. So callall them Use the scripts from chapter one of my book. You're going to have to spend At least a couple of thousand bucks a month to pay that debt up. I shouldn't say at least You can spend less. they will let you, you can use the debt payoff calculator on my website and that will allow you to see. How long until your debt is paid off? Right. Guys with thousands of dollars a month. No this You could pay that relatively quickly. Yeah, especially if your income goes up. And I love that idea. I love that idea You might have noticed that I didn't allocate the perfect amount for them to put in their debt payoff plan. Why It's kind of like you buying one of those taken baked pizzas. You know, they're made, but you take it home and put it in your oven. You get a sense of satisfaction from doing it yourself There is something to that here. I need them go through the calculator themselves. I need them to realize that it's going to take months, actually years to pay off this debt. And hey, if we put an extra two hundred, it will shave that down by six years. It is important for them to get their hands dirty. to get involved. and that is true for so many parts of money. We're not just looking for some AI tool to do the whole thing for us I want you in there. feeleing it Baking it, even if you need a little help. so that you know what it takes to be successful The real game changer would M in full time. Can you do it? I can I can go full throttle. trying to find a Yeah I run my own now with a partner. Yeah. and but it is, you know, it is a hustle and it's Some good months, some bad months. And so we tried to come up with the number here, but When I go in house as a creative director Yeah, you know, it's usually, you know, a two hundred to hundred fifty. Salary Can we just do this now? Like I would send a text message right now. Lock it down. That is the biggest thing you could possibly do. Yeah especially for four hundred one K and all things that come with it. I've never made this little money in my life. and so now it's like, I just That's for me is the the fastest sort of thing. Yes. What are the possibilities knowning the economy and your space, how likely is it that you could get a job like that? I mean, if I go, I think Probably seventy five, eighty percent. And like within like, how long do you think? Six months a year? I think how long three to six months. Wow. Yeah that's really like Is that surprising? Shocked. Yes. I mean, everyone says it takes, but you know, do we all agree that that is the route to take Yeah. you agree? Do you agree D. amazing. Okay Blake can go out and seemingly earn Tens of thousands of dollars more in a new job That doesn't happen very often. That's not for everybody But it is for them. And the fact that they haven't done that yet, that he hasn't done it, is actually what I want you to take away from this. Oftentimes People's houses are burning down and there's a fire hose right there and they don't even pick it up. You wna know why? Most of us are problem oriented Meaning we love to talk about our problems We agonize over them, We elaborate on them Very few of us, I would estimate fewer than five percent of people Solution oriented. Maning we look for solutions. We try one, we try another. The interesting thing is we can be solution oriented in one part of life not in another And for whatever reason, money tends to be one of the primary areas that people are problem oriented not solution oriented. If you've got a financial problem, you may have a solution right in front of you forget about the fact that he can make fifty thousand dollars more. That's not the point. question to apply to your own financial situation is, do I have a fire hose right in my front yard? and why am I not picking it up Going full throttle on that would allow you to increase your income Your income , your income would go up, your household income would massively skyrocket. and here's the key, hereere's where you will likely fail unless you Make a change. canan you tell me what it is? Sticking to the CSP and be like, now we can spend three thousand dollars. Because when you into the one hundred seventy five, two hundred, you're like, Ah, let's like loosen up. Let's not. No. Usually couples, I go, yeah, you're spending you're making more. goo ahead and spend a little more. In your case It will actually be pure to just be like We're not those people anymore. For now we're going to O focus on debt and savings. Yeah. We are not it'll even seem nonsensical at points.. What I would really love to do too is get the kids involved even this little. Tell me, Yes, tellell me, how would you do it? My six year old's been asking for a bank account. Like he has a little notebook that he keeps all his little change in. And I was like, okay, you know, but I would you know Even I said with the meal planning, let them let them pick out something that we can cook and they can like, I'll even take them to the grocery store. Yeah one at a time. But the only choices they have are like broccoli or rice. I mean, you'd be shocked with but my kids love broccoli and rice. but yeah, but literally getting them involved and then when we say no we can show them why. Yes. And they can have like a little savings account and be like, no, let's put this dollar here and now look at your bank account. That's I feel like That's something that you didn't sound like I certainly never got. doesn't sound like you did. Youll have a gift of an opportunity here, which is to let them in on what's going on. Of course they may not understand what ninety nine thousand dollars of debt is.. Maybe they don't even need to hear it at that age to tell them, look Right now, we realize we need to make a change and We need your help. Can you help us? Yeah? They'll be like, yes. Okaykay. takeake them a sticker chirt. They can help They can be like, You didn't spend it. Well you guys get a gold star mom and dad. And when you do that Yes, you're helping them, but Actually, you're helping yourselfves because your new identity as who will not allow yourselves to stay in debt You've know publicly told your kids that So how can you go back on it I think you have a very viable plan and I have to say I am pleasantly surprised and even shocked. The reason for this is two foold. One, on the income side, you both possibility and skills, and you are willing to make more money. That's not easy. If your kids were a little younger, that wouldn't be possible. But you're in this place where, wow, you both can do it and you're willing to do it. That's amazing. That's teamwork Now the only thing that matters is will you actually stick to the plan I mean I wantan to stick to this plan. I'm gonna stick to the plan. I too. I feel It's gonna feel so much better. Yeah. I mean, even if like there's just no way it can't feel better than this Oh no. And if we're all about comfort, let's not be miserable every time we make put our head on a pillow and start having racing thoughts about this. Like this is so stupid that we've been doing this I'm putting just for sample twenty thousand five hundred dollars a month in savings And you still have seventeen twenty eight. youall can have a How much you think you should have in guil free spending? Just a ballpark month Per month like inner situation right now. Yes two fifty. Great. What do you think two fifteen Yeah Totally doable. Okay, that's an amazing answer. That's kind of like what I was thinking. like two hundred fifty That's like, you know, one or two one thing with the kids and maybe one thing for the two And that's it Yeah canan you do it? Be this is a different life than the kind you've been leading? Yeah, yeah. You could do it, do it What that allows you is to have like roughly fif thousand five hundred bucks a month even more to put between pay offff and save you. Oh That's a lot. It's like, how did we not do this before? You know, part of this, what's happening here is that when you are in it with your money Most people never Zoom up to look at the bird's eye view and even to Be able to zoom up requires you to work through a lot of psychology and emotions and R relational issues. That's the thing because you get into it and then it becomes a you or you and like why did that was, you know and to have this Like you said, bird's eye view and an objective viewpoint. Also wanted to ask you If you wanted to move in with us for going while. Yeah, getting a little extra rent would be smart. I love I do love to rent. Okay, I want to say that I'm so impressed at how far you've come on the CSP. The reason that we're able to make this plan, which just seemed to kind of Rree' by. part is that you were willing to acknowledge certain change, the way you were brought up, the way that you need to relate to each other and the focus that it's not You versus you, it's we have a plan as a family This is our plan What are we both gonna to do so that we can accelerate this play I love a plan and I love the goal is so helpful because I feel like we didn't have there was no even goal really out loud said tours. So what it felt like we were saving or trying not to spend, it fels like, why What for? What's the ang gole? What is it gonna look like if we do this? And we never did that? And I you know, I wanted to say Thank you to you for pushing me into to hear and getting us It was your book? That was. Yeah. And I feel, you know, emotional about and about where we've been and how hard trying that is. but I feel good walking out of here. maybe a good cry after all It will be nice, but I'd like to to see the future selves that I know we are. We're good partners and we like each other and we have great kids and we can You know in a year or two, like look at what is that Richer life, you know? Yes. I felt like I came into here very hopeless and ess I felt helpless with a lot of this and just like small changes, big changes, but like on a grand scheme of things small that we can do this you quuite emotional, to be honest I mean, I'm on the brink of tears. lcome Yeah, because feeling helpless and just being You know, like you mentioned being siloed and It's not a fun place to be, you know, to like be knowning you both have somewhat of the same vision or goal, but then you're just kind of working at it different ways. So just having that You know, that idea of partnership. It is a kind of a beautiful thing. Yeah.. it is It Beautiful to see I'm actually very confident in this couple. I would not have expected that looking at the severity of their situation, but their reactions really give me a lot of confidence. The fact that they both move through the fixed costs aggressively, that they are both suggesting earning more money. Quite amazing, quite rare, even on this show. When they walked in to talk to me today They were not on the same page. They were siloed not partners. Quite remarkable that by the end, They were encouraging each other. They were smiling They were a team. I've shown them how to do it Now it's up to them Hi team Hi Tam. A little follow up video here. We wanted to discuss our biggest surprises from the day now that we're back at home. Yeah Um And I think for me, one of the biggest prizes was just how Doable, How plausible The plan is now that we have it in place, that we have the information that we need, that we've look at everything globally from a Top down level. Yeah, I think that My biggest surprise was how accessible it felt When we went through the numbers with for me and like line by line, we're like, okay, we can make this change, this change. and at the end of it, I was like, oh, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'll tell you that was my biggest surprise. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. It doesn't feel insurmountable. Yeah, it feels doable. Yeah, not easy Not a cake lock. No, but doable. Yeah, especially if there's partnership involved. Yes. I think that was another bigick a takeaway, I would say, is that how much of it needs to be a team effort and not O person Do trying to do the work, the other person avoiding, like we really have to figure out a way to do this together. We're getting there. It's gonna to take time. But I think that was one of my biggest takeaways. And that you just to attack it like what am I to do list? And just line by line, go down, make the changes. It's just interesting to look Back at that experience that we had with her mate that day and then see it how many of those behavioral patterns actually extend into my life in general and not just in the finance world. So big takeaway there that I need to make some fundamental changes in how I operate behaviorally on a day to day and big picture. So that was a real awakening and thankful to I haveve had that moment and that clarity there efinitely have decided on some changes to make. going down to one car and probably in the next month or two. Yeah. Grocery bill. I'm taking on the challenge of getting that down really, really like in half almost of what we were spending. So that is to goals that we have right now. An anotherother specific chade is just to really Be more mindful of our mislinous spending. Yeah. It's so easy toittle things that just creep in. The little things is to grab a little thing here when you're shopping and a little twenty dollars here and thirty dollars there. So really trying to h that in. I always feel like we need to do like A jar. It like a swear jar, but except it's where it's like when we buy something mislees, we have to return it or if we want to buy we to put them now in a jar. N Not a terrible idea. Not. Oh my God, it's like children. Yeah, I think those are the big changes that we've decided to make. We decided not to move Gonna to stick it out here. we're open that we still look on Zillow and all the time. all the time. Um for the time being though. for the time being U Oh and work. work I mean, I personally have, you know, did all the things I need to do with my portfolio and my LinkedIn and my resume so I'm ready to like jump in and really start trying to find what work. And increase our income. So ye. increase income. Yeah, that's a big priority. Well to really hope everyone knows that. And I've even started putting out the The feelers