Reflections on the Coaching Session

When are you going to be rich I'm not talking metaphorically. I want a date. What month and what year are you going to have a million dollars, two million, five hundred thousand, be debt free or just be able to take a vacation without worrying about the price of Kalamari Well, I'm hosting a free live event on july thirteenth. I'm going to help you answer that exact question. You can save your seat at Wt. com slash live event. I wish I could just go out and just enjoy the mu with my kids. It's just hard Right now you have like a four million dollarsar net worth So what's the problem I think I'm a warri. Iriry real hot. Yeah. But if this happens, What if this happens? We never have a true moment to just relax. It's kind of ironic that Making all this money has not made you both feel better about it I think I'm just afraid of messing up. This is a skill that I think Anna You have to build the ability to actually unlock parts of you that allow you to feel more joy, actuallyctually wantce you do it for your kids too. This is the beginning of changing your relationship with money Some people watching like, I never saw somebody struggle so much to go to a spa day How much is enough This is a question I ask my guests a lot and I am shocked at how few people have actually thought it through. In my experience, less than one percent of people actually know what enough means In my own personal life, I probably know Definitely less than ten people who know exactly what enough is. I think that's a tragedy I actually think it's just kind of lame to spend your entire life working and agonizing and worrying about money. And you never even went the next logical step to say, how much is enough In a way, it's such a pointless existence to just accumulate more and more blindly without actually thinking about the natural endpoint which many of us actually get the gift of choosing. Today I'm speaking to Jay and Anna. They are both forty one years old. Now let's take a look at their conscious spending plan. If you want my help to build your own conscious spending plan and to take control of your money, you can join my money coaching program at Wt. com slash money coaching. You will be shocked how far you get in forty eight hours. Assets, four point eight million dollars They're forty one years old Investments, one point two five million do. Okaykay, they probably own real estate. Savings, one hundred thirty six thousand dollars two point two eight million do. So a total net worth of about three point nine million dollars. Okaykay? That's very, very impressive. Fixed cost sixty six percent. That's kind of high for having that high of income. Investments at three percent, saavings at seven percent And guilt free spending at twenty four percent so they like to spend money. Okay? This is an interesting one. I'm looking forward to speaking to Jay and Anna somethingomet rare happened, you applied To speak to me. Yes. It's almost always the woman in a heterosexual relationship that applies. So I'm really curious what made you apply to speak to me today. A lot of the stuff that I do is the quote unquote woman role, right? like the finances and outspokenness and stuff like that. communication, right? I've always had a strong Weding planning. You were the wedding planner? No, was not. I don't know about that one. Wait. I was also No you. I was like have you all ever heard of a Groomzilla?? Okay. All right. Okay, well let's take a look at the application because you said something that I wanted to do ask you about Jay, you wrote We've worked and saved like crazy. Since we were sixteen But it still feels like our foot is stuck on the gas and we don't know when we can cruise. What do you mean by that We've literally been non stop. I mean, I started working when I was thirteen years old and she started working around sixteen as well, and it's always just felt like I've literally never not had a job Since I was of legal age. So when we got enough money, we started investing in real estate And then not only did I have my quote unquote,ine to five, but then it was also landlording or fixing homes up and stuff like that. So we never have a true moment to Just relax. And do you want that? I do. Okay that's my rich life. Okay, got it Anna, what is your reaction hearing this Yeah I mean Same thing because like you saidays We don't stop. so I want to get to a point where It makes sense for us to just You know what? we're Our finances are good. Ourids are taken care of. let's just Sit on a couch and watch a movie. You want to do that? Yeah. So you both want to do that So what's the problem? I don't know when is went us seou He thinks we're Kind of good But at the same time, there's still a lot of things we could be doing better And we have different mindset, I guess on some of the rental properties we have. He thinks if we sell them be done and I want to be able to continue doing what we're doing, work hard now That way My kids can what we didn't have growing up How have you tried to resolve it I mean we've tried talking, but it just feels like it never gets anywhere right. I'm kind of setting what I think is right and she's setting what she thinks is right F feelels like we just talk and talk and just doesn't really get us anywhere. Can you think of a time where the two of you were not on the same page about money Every time I think I think that's that's something we're never on the same page about, right? She's she's definitely the saver and the putting things away and I'm very much the spender, but I think I do it intelligently. It just seems like every extra penny that we have, she wants it to go to savings more than enough. and savings What do you think Mm. I don't agree because We have a lot of properties that kind of I have mortgages, so to me I'd rather put I know that extra money towards the property than not have to na stress about money and being able to pay things off and not lose them. Are you stressed right now about money? Yes, because we like I said, we have property that I would like to be paid off. that when my kids take over, they don't have to worry about You know, not being able to afford a house or the struggle we had coming up and making money. How many kids and hold We've got a sixteen year old girl, fourteen year old girl and an eleven year old boy. Okay, great Do you talk to them about money lot of time. We do. wow What do you say? that was quite a reaction? I don't, had a Do your day to day without having to live paycheck to paycheck, you know Don't live off credit cards, just teaching them the value of money because we both don't have that. so Okay. And what part of the country generally speaking do you live in Nevada Nevada. Okay, yeah. gotot it. Okay. And what do you both do for a living I do retail. And I'm a national account manager for a rental equipment company. Got it. okay Let's go back to the time anytime recently where you were not on the same page with money, think of a specific example. Well, it seems like it happens every time around the same time of the month is when my credit card goes in, right? Whenever she sees the large payment go in, like I can't believe you spent this much this month, But then I've got a reminder that I use that credit card not just for personal stuff, I pay a lot of bills from that credit card.ve a medical stuff going into there, whether it be dentists or whatever the case may be, but The toys kind of a time where she pulls me aside's like, Hey, how did do you manage to spend, you know, six thousand dollars this month or whatever the number is up? Andna, what's the number that? When you saw it, you said Oh my God. ten thousand. ten thousand. Yes. When I saw him making a credit card payment for ten thousand, I was like, whoa, what was on there? like Oh, you know, all the little stuff just adds up. So So yeah, every timees that. bank statement comes in, I'm like See what you have. And then what happens? again she pushes buttons until I kind of I feel silly having to explain myself that I spent twenty bucks here or thirty bucks there. I mean, I get it. it adds up But I feel like she doesn't trust me. I feel like she doesn't believe that I'm capable of keeping our family's finances in the green. And I've been doing it since we first moved in,, I don't know eighteen years ago before we had kids. Are your finances in the green For the most part, yeah. I mean yeah, I mean, do I spend more some months? yes, but for if you look at year over year, yeah, we're definitely in the green. And if you could wave a magic wand and you were totally in charge of the money What would you do differently Maybe take away his credit card and some apps on his phone so that way he can spend and then use that money to pay off our rental properties And then try to relax and not have to worry so much about the mortgage payment every month for all the properties. That's it. So you wantan to pay the mortgages off faster. Correct callious on that because it's not even two weeks ago. she wass like, oh, if we do sell one of these properties that we have in California, we should look at buying an aplex here in Nevada. So I know that When something is paid off, she's just going to say, Hey, let's go buy something else So I'm always going to have mortgages is when I've come to the realization The smile tells me you kind of agree I'm working on that Definitely working on Hopefully after you look at all our stuff, we can kind of come to an agreement of being able to notot getting any more properties and Be content. Be content and just live our rich life because he loves to travel so. You need my permission to live your rich life? Yes, please give it to me No, you just like than not knowing of m sure we're Our finances are in order and his spending an and the spending, right? We need to be able to control the spending to where If we don't have the rental properties, we can live off our W two income. we do compensate a lot for that too. What's the thing about the shoes? Is there something about you buying shoes? No, it's not even me buying shoes I don't know, seeven months ago there was a sale at Nike and I think I bought like ten pairs, but it was like three hundred dollars hundred for all ten pairs. So it's like,. Yes, I a lot of shoes but it's like I'm dropping thousands of dollars and those shoes will last me maybe the next two, three years. Okay. So what's the disagreement there? But I guess she just like throwing me calling me out when I spend money. Oh, I see. ye. And what about cars That's's my that's my vice. I'll be the first to admit that, right? I've spent a lot of money in my life. And again, we've been together a long time so she's seen all the money. How many cars do you have I only have one that's mine. I've got a truck that's provided to me by my company, but I've spent in the past, right previous job I bought hundred thousand plus thousand dollars truck. And then before that, a sports car I've been lucky enough to sell them for relatively what I purchased them for, but I've lost some money because I do things to them What's your take on the cars We end up wasting a lot of money on things that We don't need to. L all the modifications and stuff like that that he ends up selling it. so The current car that he has right now is said there's You're not gonna to sellve that. No matter what. You told him that? Yeah. Like what do you put into a car? By the way, this is so hilarious to me because like, I know you're not a car guy. No, I'm not a car when I bought, you know when my family bought a house when we were growing up,, You buy the house and that's the house. Like there's no renovation. What's done I buy a car. That's it. And then I find out people do modifications. They take it in, they get this after dealer, after fact, whatever it's called. I'm like You literally, this car isn't even the same vehicle anymore. No, it's not. What did you do with your truck? that a Paint protection film. likeike a wrap on it, I guess you can call it. That was like eight thousand dollars and then I did it was a rapor. so I did some more suspension stuff to it. Like what madeade it higher? No, it's already high. just tweak some of the it already comes factory with with like off road. Th the ones that are for like Baha five thousand five hundred and stuff like that. But my current car is Toyota Supra I'm kind of afraid to say how much money Ill spend into it, but it' say second'll good about a second one. But yeah how much did it cost all the modifications Probably about fifty, fifty five thousand. fifty five thousand for mody. How much does the car cost? I paid fifty five thousand for it. Wow All right So, I'm just try to We can't all drive a Hondo accord twenty years. I wish I could So when you have these conversations about money, about credit cards, about cars What role does each of you play in that conversation She's very much the I don't know what correct word for it, but the authority of like or the mom, right? Why did you do this? Why did you spend this there? And what's your role I've got to explain myself and say, okay, I justify my purchases Wh I did what I did? And what do you think? I mean he nailed it. comes down to that, but then again it's just Like how surprised you are, right? It's like Do you really need to do all that on an already nice car Yeah. So me trying to understand H I guess love for hobbies is probably Another reason because like Money should not be spent We have some parent child dynamic here, which is Why'd you do that? Did you need that? Are you sure And then Mommy, I like to spend money on candy that it's a little more nuanced than that because when I ask her do you like doing this. She says no When I think about what he is spending his money on. for the most part although some of it is a bit extravagant They can almost certainly easily afford it So there's something deeper going on here and I want to find out what it is I don't know if he should or should not. I don't know. I have to take a look at the numbers. because people spend their money in a lot of ways that I don't understand But how do I know if they should or should not? Do they have enough? Maybe they're going into debt. That to me is tells me more than just I don't agree with it How's that strike you? Yeah,, I get it. Okay. I understand that. Okay, we'll take a look at the numbers too. Actually, should we look at them now? Yeah.. What was it like to do the conscious spending plan together Eye opening and a little confusing just because we had numbers that we didn't know which bucket they should fall into. Yeah. Sorry, Anna, what was it like for you to do the CSP a little confused how everything adds up so fast. so And then some of this stuff comes out of my paycheck, so I just wasn't sure on where to put it. So o. I hope it's like're in. All Let's take a look here. Anna, can you read off the word in bold and the number next to it in full for this entire box, please? Assets, four million eight hundred seventy six thousand Investments is one million two hundred fifty five thousand nine hundred and seven dollars Savings is one hundred and thirty six thousand nine hundred and seventy eight. Debt is two million two hundred eighty three thousand five hundred twenty seven dollars. Great, What's the total net worth Three million nine hundred eighty five thousand three hundred and fifty eight dollars. All right, what do you think about those numbers I like all of them except the deck All right, what do you feel when you see those numbers And A little anxious Um Overall content Okay, cool. Jay, what about you? I feel proud. I mean, this is Anna's in my hard work, the p, you know, thirty years It's a lot of hard work. I see the You know, eighteen hour days the Staying up until three o'clock in the morning, renovating a property. I see a lot of that. And yeah, the debt is Overwhelming, but it's all real estate debt. so I know that we're positive on all the properties we own. so if we had tomorrow sell it couldn't be out of that day prettyret impressive Let's not forget you're both forty one years old That's incredibly impressive considering I mean, it would be impressive at seventy. Thank you Do you ever celebrate these numbers? I don't know if we celebrate the numbers, but we do You know We'll take a vacation a year. I mean, we skipped the last year, but we'll try to take a nice vacation, right? We used to alternate with the kids when they were younger and they still wanted to hang out with us and then do a couple's vacation. And that was kind of how I celebrated, right? We got to relax for a week. I didn't answer my work phone. we weren't doing anything real estate related But I don't think we've ever answer your question, sorry. I don't think we've ever said, hey, good job, like look look where we're at. And that was kind of what was cool about doing the CSP together. It was like, wow Look where we've come. We've never actually put. Our numbers on paper. Really? Yeah. Just worked and worked Well, I think it's a good thing that you did because Those numbers are big I mean, byy the end of today's conversation It's very likely to be four million dollars. Yeah. That's pretty incredible and actually allows you to really think about your life in a different way But it's so common that most of us are just day to day, we got to do this, we got to pay bill, We gott to fix this thing, this dishwasher' broken. but we don't stop to look at what does it all add up to? And more importantly, what does it mean four million dollars at this age What do we get? We've done all this work, what do we get from it Let's keep going on the numbers zough. Income, Jay, can you read me off your combined gross monthly income, please twenty one thousand two seventy nine. That's per month. so per year two hundred fifty five thousand dollars a year Did you both know that number Yes Great. And then the net is It's three hundred sixty seven thousand dollars net How can the net be higher than the gross or rental properties inccome So you okay, so you put that income straight into your net. She added that because we were asked to put the rental the properties because we didn't know where to put them. Yeah. So I'm not sure Let me jump in quickly and save you a bunch of back and forth about Anna's gross income and mortgage payments on multiple properties The CSP is designed to be very simple So when people have multiple streams of income at different tax rates, it can be challenging to categorize them here We know that it's impossible to have a gross income that is lower than a net income So we're going to ball parket Anna had originally calculated her gross income as four thousand five hundred and eighteen dollars and her net income as eighteen thousand three hundred and seventy five dollars We just know intuitively that that cannot be right Doing some quick math around their mortgage payments led us to adjust her gross income ten thousand five hundred dollars and her net at approximately eight thousandars She also double counted their mortgage under fixed cost. So we brought that down, which lowered their fixed costs dramatically. And that makes sense. They are a high income couple So their original number of sixty six percent fixed costs did not sit right with me Now we know that it was a math error. I see a lot of comments from people wishing that we adjusted the CSP to include this and to include that. And I actually think a lot of those comments are pretty fair comments If you decide that you want to tweak the conscious spending plan for your own needs, be my guest. However, I want to emphasize something I designed the CSP to be simple And I find that human nature, especially from weird freak optimizers, leads you to add in this line and that line and that line. and suddenly you have a super complicated spreadsheet that nobody actually understands. So I would rather take simplicity over complexity and even comprehensiveness any day of the week when it comes to something like the CSP All right, let's get back into it Let's take a look at your fixed costs. Fixed costs now with some adjustments are forty nine percent which is lower than I typically recommend fifty per to sixty percent, but it actually makes sense because you all have a very high income So of course, your number should be lower than average. Most people do not make two hundred forty three thousand dollars net. for a year So good Let's keep looking. Your investments are at five percent. I don't agree with us. So I've got seven percent for my four hundred one ks going into that. I also contribute one thousand dollars a month into Robinhood. And then I also contribute the seven thousand five hundred a year for the Roth IRA That should be here. So let's call it. five, eighty five a month b So your number is now eight percent, but it's actually higher than that because you have your four hundred one K correct. All right Then savings at ten percent or twenty one hundred dollars a month. Agree? Oh yeah, I think that's safe to say. All right which leaves you with six thousand dollars per month What do you think about that? That's a big number. I'm not going lie. Again, what's tough for me to see is to see how much of that. My credit cards every month is actual spending that I'm doing That's for me, right? non familyily related or non real estate related. You track it I do You trck it on your credit card, Do you like look at it and analyze it? So y' all look at my credit card every day to see what expenses are going in and do you do the same What do you think about him looking at this stuff every day I don't know. I mean, I guess it's good. Mbe he can Keep track of anythingything Looks strange or something comes out. So if that's the case, then do you trust his ability to spend correctly? I trust the ability to know our finances, but at the end of the month, we don't really know how much. bring in or how much we're spending exactly. because of everything that we're making So if Jay can kind of see like, hey this month I've spent wayay more than I should in this mon. How much should he spend? I don't know. Well that's the part I don't know. You get to make the allowance. What is it? Please, My I don't know, I don't know if there's a certain amount. I just Looking at our numbers, that does seem like a crazy amount of money, but it's like Do you ever say no? No did J spend me? Okay. Besides that? Yeah. I mean, I have kiddos, so I was asking for stuff. I'm like, no. You say no? Yeah, of certain things, like a bag of takies or something like that. I say no, we can't eat that. So yeah, The word know is in my vocabulary. Okay. And you use it Yeah. And when you say you say no to J spending I didn't catch you saying no I caught you saying, should you spend that much? You shouldn't spend that much, but I didn't catch you saying no So Ill ask again, do you say no No, I don't think no I guess not today because like you said, I trust him. I know he's worked really hard with The life we put together. Yeah So I'm not like Stones spend the money or don't bu the car part or Don't get into this hobby, but when the credit card statement comes in, I see that huge amount like right now we're seeing with Our numbers, that's when numers like why Why are we doing this every month when it comes to all the spending, you know Let's kind of get a better control of are spending because it's true. it's a plastic. You're swiping it, swiping it. You're not really paying attention to the amount of money you're putting on that credit card. Can you imagine a world where you do not have to track everythingvery you spend Mhm Because that would mean what Relax, be at peace with what we've done? No. You told me that's what you want. So clearly there's something else going on because you told me you want to relax In fact, look at it now when you said relax, you kind of sit back. They're trying to relax. It's like this is you relaxing. Let me show you Hey everybody, I'm relaxed Okay. R impersonation when you that was her. I noticed that you zeroed out my miscellaneous category in the spending. That was me, ye because I feel like I'm pretty confident in the stuff that we put in there as far The only thing know was I didn't have a bucket, I guess, was the credit cards that I say we spend and pay every month. I mean, we don't really have any subscriptions. Besides Apple, we have the extra storage. Other than that, Netflix and stuff comes out of my phone bill W But like you spent six thousand dollars a month on your credit card Yes. Every month it seems like there's something last month I had a oth I had to get replaced I was like two thousand dollars l, right? Where's that planned for in the CSP? It's not not. That's what miscellaneous is for Why do you mess with my numbers when they're designed for you? To get a r out of you, I gu, I don't know. What the hell? I know, I told them. I said, I don't think Rommie's going to be happy with that. Once in a while when someone changes something I'll ask them why and they have a very good reason. This happens like three percent of the time And I'm like I respect that. deviated from my system You adapted it, but you had a very, very good reason Do mind is, hey, I think this number is big, zero Thank you. You actually need it for things like all the things that come up when you have a family and you have kids. and properties. I don't know why I thought it was subscriptions. Now that I'm reading it here, it obviously has not I'm gonna to fix your miscellaneous, okay? I's just st But we have fifty seven percent fixed costs M worse than it was before, but before was artificially low So fifty seven percent is still within the fifty to sixty percent range Y'all make so much money that I really think this number should be a little bit lower. Still It's fine I'm not sitting here. I don't lecture anybody who has less than sixty percent fixed costs and also has millions of dollars in their forties. Okay Any questions so far By the way, your savings are eleven months of Fixed costs. Did you know that Yes. cool. What do you think of that I feel comfortable with that, right? Her biggest fear is What if you lose your job or we lose you, right Yeah That makes me feel at ease that if something did happen to me, my family wouldn't be scrambling. Yeah. eleven months is really good. I've been telling people twelve months good especially in a turmoil economic times I think it's great. Your savings are solid Good work Thank you. I think we need to admit that the CSP is a little chaotic And I'm not sure I did a great job of clarifying everything on the sheet I think it's probably mostly accurate But what I think is really important here is what it suggests about their finances I think there's probably a lot of chaos. I think there's money here and there I think the fact that they are not surprised that the money in their fixed costs dropped to like fifty percent It's kind of indicative they don't really know their numbers carefully. That tells me they're not really connected to it How can you feel good about money if you're not connected to it. I wonder if they like chaos I wonder what other parts of their life reflect it Constantly working, but not being able to relax, even for an afternoon That kind of worldview shows up in a conscious spending plan and it shows up in other parts of their money And I want to dig into it more. I want to find out what's really going on here One of my readers shared with me an account of somebody who can find other people's Instagram accounts with as little information as possible. For example, her record is finding someone based on three facts. He lived in Brooklyn. He had brown hair, and he went to her gym. They didn't even know the guy's name. They still figured out who he was And this is another reason that I pay for and use Delete mee. If this person can find somebody's account using just three pieces of information, just imagine what scammers and data brokers can do to you Delete Me is a subscription service that removes your personal data from the internet. 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The guide is free to you at netsuite d. com slash Remh. Again, that's netsseet d. com slash Remi Down to Gil free spending, Y' have about five thousand bucks a month. Extra to spend every month What we think about that I like it. I guess it's just getting Anna to buy in on that, right? Be She feels that we need to throw that extra five thousand dollars back in the savings. You mean back to the mortgages, right What are the mortgage rates at? Our primaries at five Six and a half. Six and a half. The other ones are two point seven five three point two five And we're trying to sell one right now that we did in a partnership. me and one of my good friends did in Big B as an Airbnb. And that one I believe is seven point two five. seven point two five. If you had the money would you pay the two point seven five percent. Fast. No. I paint I would I'd probably focus that on our primary. Let's say you paid that off Would you then take the money and pay off the next one? No Well I don't know So you pay offf the primary. And the seven percent one is gone. So you have these low interest r. Would you pay them off early I don't think I'd pay the two point seven five just because it too low right for mea put money towards that. That's pretty helpful tells me how you treat debt. Some people, they just hate debt. I mean, I do hate debt, but just you hate it, but not mathematically, it doesn't make sense to write that money towards that. You have to understand, most people do not get to the mathematical point. Literally, debt is just It's like me having like roaches on me. okay? It doesn't matter, Oh, they're actually not gonna to harm me. It's like, they're bad Get it off. I'll put all my money and I go, u, That debt, paying it off early is going to cost you like three hundred eighty five thousand dollars in opportunity cost Get rid of it Okay, it's up to you But you're telling me no, which tells me You understand debt. Everybody has feelings about money, but you also are looking at the math side of it too Okay, that's quite interesting So because you understand debt and interest rates What do you want to do with the money I mean, we're looking at it here You got five thousand dollars a month in guilt free spending so you can allocate it however you want. What do you want to do I' probably put in a separate savings account for the rental properties in case anything happens to Jay O I lose tenants, I'd want to be able to hold the properties because One of the properties that we have the kids actually want to keep with the families. because they kind of grew up in it. I always like to keep that property with the family and then when they're older, if they want to move back to California, they' have a home that they can raise their kids in. Do you allall think that you have enough money to do what you want to do? On paper we do, this is where we go back and forth with the property she just talked about the kids wanting to keep To me, it just It's a messy situation right? It's a very Expensive house as far as it's worth a lot of money Um, if we lose the tenants there now It's the same mortgage as what we're paying at our new house now in Nevada. So If we had a three month Vacancy, right? I'm paying two mortgages. Can I sustain it? Yes, but for how long Right? the weight of that doesn't it wears on me, right? And then my biggest thing is in a perfect world where Anna sees the kids wanting to keep this property, right. They're going to grow up, they're going to have their own families. too me, it's just going to create issues with the kids, right? There's going to be animosity because only one family is going to get it So now we're getting creating potential problems for kids in the future. versus if we were to sell that property we can A, pay off our primary residence now and have be mortgage free. B, pay a portion of it And invvest the rest of the money or I mean, really do whatever the heck we want to do. buy aplex if you wants to buy an apeplex. W It just opens up way more possibilities by getting rid of that. How Have you gone about making this decision about whether to sell the property or not We've discussed it, No, yes, we have. We've discussed it. She's agreed to it twice and then went back and said, No, never mind. It doesn't make sense. and then before being asked to join you in your show, we were in the mentality that we were going to sell it. And then as of like two weeks ago, I think she went back again and said, oh no, never mind, I don't think it makes sense to sell. Why is that? Uh, becausecause my son You' a eleven year old What he say I just had a lot of memories there then It makes it harder to tellll a home that he had memories and he wants to be able to keep within the family H. What do he say exactly Oh I remember coming down the stairs and O like we all watch certain videos on my phone and I love I love this house Okay. so it's not just a financial decision for you Okay I can see why it is Tough to make progress on it. Everything is kind of intertwined You pull on one question, It unravels, then there's another one, then there's another one. and each of them is Kind of difficult. your son, the complexity, the not knowing how much you actually have left over every month. It's all just one thing after another, which stops you from seeing clarity on the situation. What do you think I'm seeing When I'm hearing this I don't know. What are you seeing Y'all have so many options on what you could do thing is It seems to me you are under analysis paralysis. You could do this, you could do that. There's a good reasons to do it and not to do it. and so you're stuck How long have you been stuck talking about money and what you should do with it As long as I can remember, to be honest with you It feel good Not at all. It's kind of ironic that making all this money has not made you both feel better about it What do you make of that It's tough, right? Because you would think getting The salaries that we get or owning all these properties would open more doors and kind of let you relelax It's honestly a lot of pressure right Eespecially when you add your kids and family into the play. It's just you you you're not just doing things for yourself anymore, right? You're doing it for the team and you don't want to Leave it in a situation, right going back to selling the house, like I love that my son has all these memories and that he wants to keep that house, but he's eleven years old. he doesn't know The magnitude of owning a house, that size comes, right. Not even just the mortgage, but the upkeep, right? The maintenance. It's a lot of responsibilities for him to try to keep a house that he has memories in, right? And that's how I see it. I don't want it to come across that we're not thankful for everything that we've been able to do because we are very thankful. But it's been a lot of hard work and it's even more work to keep it. afoat, right to keep it. goingo when I had anything. It's a lot of stress A lot of tough decisions to make for everybody, but U That's why we keep going in these circles, you know, when the emotions you know, with the kids, it just makes it. not as easy as for me to just mathematically be like, Yp, that's what we're doing. Yeah What do you remember about money growing up What' your family say about it? We never spoke about money. We came H veryery long income You know, we came when we came to America, My parents't speak English so It's not like they could get a job there They can make good money, so My dad did whatever he could to Geep a house for us and food and pace of jobs, landscaping, car wasash and stuff like that. So how old were you? Seven? Seven. And what country did you come from? Middle East Iraq. Okay. Seven years old, like old enough to really notice and remember things. What were some of the first things that you noticed that surprised you We went back home, we didn't go to school so coming here and just going to the schools here and just seeing kids in different clothing than you and you was like, wow How come I don't have that, you know? so that. Andad did everything he could to provide for us. So I'm grateful. I think that's what makes it hard for us because I want to give my kids what we didn't have so It's just challenging coming from that kind of background and then I that's it's of hard for me to know when to stop because My dad never did. He never stopped Until this day he's seventy eight still works What does he say Nothing. He's thinkful, he still has his legs in his arms and he's after doing whatever he needs to do. So What do you say to him You tell him to keep working I don't want him to work, but he says it keeps him young.. He likes to go out there and just do physical work and stay young and still make Money? Yeah Do you remember them talking about money in your family No fighting. What was it? what's the culture of money in your family when you were young? My mom raised all of us. have a big family. Four sisters, two brothers S house, the mom cooked, we ate back home. I never saw the my mom actually talk about money with my dad or my dad with my mom. Not the way we discuss it, obviously. I think I want to educate my kids on money because I feel like the world has changed so much and it's just so much harder to makeake it in life that Being educated is gonna get you whereere you want to go? Yeah So I feel like a mom and dad gave us The basics, right? Like, hey, hard work, go out there and do it. Do you recognize how much you have accomplished consonsidering especially that you came to the US as a seven year old Oh yeah I do I do, like I said I have to thank my mom and dad for that because Even though they didn't physically sit down and talk to me, I saw a lot of the things that my dad did for us and Being in East America have given us the opportunity for me to grraduated I graduated from SACU all by myself, no student debt and just saving, working hard job after job after job pututting money away, I think I get that from my mom because she was the money handler. my dad Here you go. Do your mom still alive? Yeah, they're both still alive What is her life like now? She's good. liivves with my brother and My dad. Grandkids. Is she relaxed No, I think she's still stresses on Life. Yeah like her daughter Maybe she doesn't tell me that I need stop working so much. She tells you that all the time Oh wow Be it's notable to me that the way you described your childhood and growing up It was quite rushed I't know if you caught and just like, recounting and moving and moving through it, skipping over it And I appreciate that you appppreciate your parents because they did something that None of us will do I notice it among my friends who have immigrant parents is very tough for them to relax It's very tough for them to feel a sense of ease And I can see that with you, even with your body language. You told me right at the beginning, I want to be able to relax But I don't know if I believe it I think maybe you like being stressed. I think it's maybe what you've known. And J's answer. I wonder if you relax if you would even know what to do and now And it doesn't surprise me that your mom hasn't relaxed eith If you never saop modeled, how would you do it I guess is was what the end didn itt learn Yeah or haven't learned? What is your relationship with money today How would you describe it? I just feel like Not enough. I need to just keep going and make M more money you can be able to just I don't know It's hard I think my relationship with money iss hard because I don't C say they don't expending It's like saving it Cen S it for the future for the kids. Is your future basically over and now it's about the money for the kids No. I mean, What I would like is once we know we're and I don't know, I guess good not withstanding, but I would like to just spend im just traveling that J likes to do. So you want to travel together? Yes. That's Okay. I I wantna travel by myself. She's own. I didn't mean together. But you're telling me the two of you would like to travel. And do you both agree on that? Yes.. Okay. Can you tell me, is there a path from where you are today to that I want to say yes, there should be a path. I feel like we're pretty smart individuals that done a lot in our lives to where Whensafe Figure out what it is about me having or being able to stop and just move forward and be able to Relax and and travel with J. I just haven't found that path yet Do you do a lot of all or nothing thinking? like it's either got to be perfect or I'm not going to do it at all No I think I'm a warrior.ri worry a lot. Yeah. You worry about money. You worry about your kids. And something go What if if this happens? What if this happens? What if this happens That's more my mindset. Do like worrying about money No, not at all. No, no. No warrior ever says they like it. No, I will say. So if you were not a warrior about money. if you did not worry Who would you be That's tough because That's been me all my life, so It's hard to say What I would be. spoken like a true warrior What you just said is exactly what every warrior says. They worry about money. It is part of their identity So much so that when I asked them, who would you be if you were not a warrior They don't know And usually it's not only who they are today, it's who they observed in their parents No for sure And Jay, what do you remember about money as a kid, what'd your family say Um, so similar story to Anna, First generation here, a little bit shorter trip though we came from Mexico I moved here actually right around the same age as her seven years old. Money was always Loo back I felt like I was treated like something evil, right and We had a couple family members that had money and I just remember as a kid that they were always talked bad about You know, they're stingy or they're You know, they they never buy this or buy that and they have all this money, right? And my mom was a house cleaner, my dad started as a landscaper and then got into pool construction from seven to about thirteen years old It was all hand me down clothes from the people that my mom worked cleaned houses for And it wasn't until about I turned thirteen, started middle school where my dad started making better money when he started doing pool construction and was finally able to afford, you know, nice stuff, right? And I remember Clearly because that's when when you kind of start caring what you look like when you get into middle school. So always were living in a two bedroom apartment with my younger brother and my mom and dad. I mean, I never went hungry. We always had a roof over our head, but we never reallyally had much, right When my dad started making money, I think this is where my car vice came from. He started buying cars, right? He got a car for him and for my mom and then they had the nice new cars That was the first thing that we got as a family. that was kind of a pride, right? Like, o cool, we can we can afford something nice now. But definitely never talked about savings. I was the one that kind of introducedce them into a four hundred one K and definitely not financially literate. Do you like money? I love money. Wow ye Andna do you like money You love it I wouldn't say I love it, but Okay. Well let me redefine that. I love what money can get me right. Money can get me freedom, money can get me experiences. So I love what money can bring Did you catch that they're the same age and that they came to the US at basically the same age What I don't think they mentioned is that they actually have the exact same birthday. This is quite amazing because Gring up, even though they grew up in different countries They grew up in kind of similar upbringings parents not talking about money And yet the way they treat money is markedly different And there are some gender issues here. We often see the person who is protective and fearful about money tends to be women We often see people who spend more, invest more, tend to be men, not always, but that's common when I speak to couples. It is striking to me that deepending on how you grow up You might react by being a spender or a saver as they like to call it You can't predict which one will happen. In fact, when they talk about their kids, I would say it's hard to predict which of their children We'll spend money or hoard it Which of them will have a healthy relationship with money or not. And I'll be very curious if I end up speaking to their kids in let's say, twenty years and see what their reaction to growing up with money in this family was Part of my rich life is always learning from the best, which is why I subscribe to a bunch of newsletters. For example, Carthick research' fashion newsletter Will Gadera's premal newsletter and Phil Terry's career newsletter These newsletters are all full of great insights from totally different domains whichich is why I don't filter them to my promotional folder. Instead, I use superhuman mail which sends every important email straight to my primary inbox so I never miss it. Superhuman Mail is an AI native email and calendar for busy professionals and teams. As part of the Superhuman productivity suite, Superhuman Mail AI keeps you one step ahead by automatically drafting replies, organizing priorities and surfacing what matters most. 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Join the thousands of parents who trust fabric to help protect their family Apply today in just minutes at meetfabric. com slash remet meetfabric. com slash remet and use my links so they know I sent you M E ET fabric d. com slash remit. Picies issed by Western Southern Life Inurance company not available in certain states, priceices is subject to underwriting and health questions What is the rich life for each of you. My rich life is waking up Without an alarm clock, right? waking up at whatever time I see fit Anna And having breakfast relaxing not having to rush to take a kid here or there or this or go fix a toilet or an air conditioner and just having the ability to not have plans that day. Just go about the day wherever it takes us, maybe go go walk at a park or go on a vacation or whatever. you know, just spending time with her without having clog of Duties Okay. It sounds like retirement I don't,, you're right. Okay. Anna, what about you? What's your rich life? I don't know. I just for me my kids, I definitely want to set them up Once that's taken care of I would love to vacation Hopefully have grand kids one day and just be able to just Relax. How long u till you can do that? I don't know. I mean, what if I told you could relax today if you wanted to? I don't think I can You don't believe it Beause I mean theoretically, if you sold all the properties And Y'all invested the money You don't need to work again. What about the kids You tell me, what about them They'd still be fine. I mean, this is something. I'm glad you're saying it because we've had this conversation and she just completely writes it off like that's Ludicrous, right? And but you're right. we've got enough equity and the kids would be more than taken care of. Do you believe that No, because everything just cost more money now. Hm So You know, my youngest is eleven He look go what? Seven more years before becomes an adult so That's another seven years of us making sure We do everything in our power to. provide for him and the sisters and then Once, you know, they're adult, I would still like to Contribute, college, buy a house gettingetting married. Yeah I want to be able to provide for them. So then you should work for the rest of your life. E don think J want. Don't let me into that minute I think that's what Jay's been trying to Convince me to No What is? the age that you do want to stop. So what is it? I don't know Okay, right now it's never It is. If if the goal is I want to provide for my kids, which means I want to pay for everything from now until they die whichich is kind of what you're saying You said You want to everything from now until he goes to college, if he goes to college you're going to pay for college If getsarried you're going pay for the wedd Pay for a house probably pay for a car I would like to help If He says I want to buy a five hundred thousand dollar house, how much you going to give him? I't know twenty percent of their house, the payment on the house. Okay. They're gonna buy let's say a million dollar house at two hundred K each. so that's six hundred k for that. Weddings, each going to be fifty K one hundred fifty k there We're up to seven hundred fifty K What else car, you're going to buy him a car I don't know at all I want them to still be able to provide for themselves too. I don't want to do everything. Okay, no car college you're gonna toay the college?. if they want to go to college So each of them, let's say a hundred fifty K four hundred fifty K. Now we're at a million So let's say you Have a check for a million bucks And you put it aside for the kids Now are you ready to relax I want to say yes But I know myself I might want to still keep going until I know. I don't know. I I guess I don't know I don't know realistically When I'll be content to just Let it go and never I'm telling you, you know how many people I talk to The answer is never So how do you change that? That is a very good question What do you think Do you want to change? Ofen? O course Yes, of course, I'd want to change. Okay Paint the vision for me of the Anna in the future. Anna, who is, describe her Not worrying about everything What else ' been able to go somewhere, buy something and now look at the nameag or price tag. Tell me what Anna does. Don't tell me what Anna doesn't. Look at everything, worry about everything.. Check every account. What does she wear? She she wear the same things as today Yes, because she's pretty plain. Okay And she drive the same thing she drives She visit the same places on trips that she visits today I mean, I would hope she would want to see other places in the world where do you want to go There's a lot of places that I would love to see It's kind of striking to me if we can just kind of just like zoom out for a second. L what I'm trying to do right now is try to understand in your ideal world What would you do And have you noticed what's happening right here What do you feel right now Iomem pleased It's like No matter what I'm asking There's almost like a Oh shhield up. And you're finding it very difficult. I'm asking you, what would you wantan to do? You're telling me what you wouldn't wantan to do. I'm asking whereere would you want to go? And even that is like someplace. So Less Let's just all take a deep breath There's no wrong answer here. If you told me I want to go to Cincinnati for my rich life. In my head, I'm going to go what the Out loud I'm gonna to say, that sounds amazing There is no wrong answer It can be as small or as big as you would want. I think probably travel I like traveling a lot. Where Japan, Thailand. Greece, cool What would you eat at these places? Whatever authentic food they have. Cool. The main dish. And day to day living? What would you do differently. I don't know, I would like to G on. the markets and get some good food or some ingredients and go back home and teach the kids some of other recipes ands relax with them. Nice. What about without them Just the two of you. Sit down on a couter to watch a movie. Nice. Can you do that now No, how'll falling sleep But if if you did it, let's say, I don't know, the middle of the day Could you do it No, how come There's thousand things I could be doing. Oh, like what? Kids, sports Running errands Maging the rental properties, fixing our house, there's always something to do There's not enough hours in the day for me, I could tell you that Oh. You like being busy? Yes. Yeah. I do and I don't Jay, what do you make of this I mean, she's being honest and it sucks because I'm the same way, right? One of the reasons we moved to Nevada from California was to slow down life, right? Be we felt like It was high paceed in California and we thought, hey, we go to Nevada, we get to save some money on taxes and also sllow down things, you know, be in an area where the kids can be a little bit more self sufficient. they can walk to and from school and they less reliant on us and it just feels like I mean, we came to the realization a few weeks ago, we're like, man, it doesn't matter where we live. it's us, right? Wow. You realize that? I did. Yeahah. I was like, no matter what we do, we're always going to have something to do U, and it's sad because when one of us finally does, you know, manage to just wear each other out and we sit down in the middle of the day, just take a breather The other one will call the other one out like Why are you resting? You know? it sucks. It does, right? She's done it to me and I've done it to her and it's like I'll catch myself after I do it.' like, what the hell is wrong with you, man? L let her Let her relax. Like we don't always have to be go go go I mean, we were outside yesterday till what ten thirty at night, the hanging string lights in the backyard to finish the project before we came down here with you. It's just didid you like it I like the outcome of it. Did you like doing it?, I don't mind it. I mean I've done this for so long that it's just the norm for me, right? I used to like sending emails to my newsletter looggin type the whole thing I would send a test Check it On my own personal email, make sure every link works and then send it out and watch the responses come in and the metrics I really loved it and I was good at it Today I couldn't tell you how to do it. someomebody on my team does it There's a QA process. there's software, I don't know what they're using I also don't enjoy it as much but I didn't know that until I delegated it, stepped away do love is the responses You love seeeeing the lights up I love seeing the email in other people's inboxes. I love seeing there, but I don't have any joy anymore in the mechanics of sending it out When I share that example, does it with you at all. one hundred percent It does because there's some projects that I've done that I'm like, man, I'm kind of over this, right? Yeah This is not funny anymore. I she'll even notice is like, why Why are you doing it then But then I know if I add in the cost of a contractor, now it's a project we can't do right now and it's That way the option is that way Is part of your rich life having multiple properties? It was early on. And now For me, it's not I I'm not ae. I enjoy the pace of just being able to just take care of properties and do all that stuff and the wealth that it's building and like I said, I have the kids, so I would love to be able to keep on Tach my kids Right? Yeah you like it One out of three yeah. The reason I ask is The properties you bought obviously have done really well and have brought you to a place of serious wealth But when I Think about the rich life that you describe, Jay. N not involving the properties very much at all In fact, if anything, the properties kind of opposite of what you've both mentioned, wanting to relax People who own multiple properties usually do not relax. I know Yeah. So that's why I'm asking. I don't have anything against owning multiple properties per se It's just, is it a part of your rich life For me, it's not right. We've had this conversation. recently because we had the most turnover that we've ever had in one of our properties and it was stressful, right? We had a tenant that stop paying his rent Right. So we had to work on being in California, it's a tenant friendly state. So it' tough trying to get him out. We got lucky with him And at the exact same time, we had another tenant that was moving out. So we had a lot of upfront costs, getting the units you cleaned out and ready for new tenants. We get good tenants for the most part, right? So it took us three, four months of vacancy and I don't want to be deal with that when I'm truly retired, right? If I'm no longer working my W two job and We're only getting the income from the rental properties that's paying for, it's going to be a lot tougher. Why are you keeping these properties? I'm okay with keeping our triplex because that pays for itself. and my rich life includes that because that's going supplement if we didn't have any of the other income coming in That's going to pay for our Okay. What about the rest I would like to keep it in the family for the kids to be able to have an option if they wanted to move back to California. Would you rather give them that house or money? Two out the would bring up that house a lot. so I think So it's that house me. Yeah. Okay. That house. I ask my readers on social media one time, I was like What would you rather inherit A house in an uncertain location Maybe I have to split it with siblings, but a house or a portfolio of cash and stocks. likeike ninety plus percent of them said stocks But ironically, most parents think about passing along a house What do you think of that? No, I agree with that the outcome because Jay said the same thing It's better we just sell these properties than put them in a index fund for them and when they're older, let them do what they want to do with the money. There's a lot of Phantom cost. Yes, that come with owning a home, especially a home the size of the one that we keep talking about. I mean, it's a four thousand two hundred square foot house I'm putting myself in my kids shoes and I'm like, man, okay, cool, I got my house from when I was a child, but Now it comes with all this extra work that I didn't really sign up for. versus, hey, here's Here's a million dollars or more up to you what you want to do with it. And kids, if you're watching this, that doesn't mean you're automatically going get the money, you still have to work and go to school. That's right. Tellem What do you think about that? There's all these phantom costs. There's property taxes that might adjust. And we're talking about not giving it to one kid Three, right? which has become incredibly complex Unfair One kid can't afford it. the other one doesn't want to maintain the upkeep. I'm not trying to scare you. Yeah. That's reality. I'm just saying like these are very, very comable. In fact, it's an easy way that kids break up and stop talking to each other because their parents did not do effective planning. What a tragedy for a couple who has millions and millions, millions of dollars and will have millions more to just be like, here's here, but actually you're not giving them a gift, you're giving them a curse. What do you think about that? I mean, that part is scary because like you said, especially if they're not Um Interested in learning the mechanics and the amount of money that you need to upkeep the property, that's the part that does kind of worry me. Three out of three would have to They have shown no indication. The only one who shows it is the young one who doesn't really know what it takes I don't know if Anna remembers this, but we've straight up asked them What do they say? Like, hey, would you guys prefer m and two out of the three said I'll take the money, right This has been an ongoing topic since we moved to Nevada and out of the house. What do you thinkin in? I mean I don't want to pressure you because it's your house and you all decide, but it seems like this House among the other ones What I feel a bit of is a sense of a tail wagging the dog. You bought this house and now this house has become the thing that is causing more work, It's causing more stress for the kids. Its you're putting all this time and stuff into it for a future someday where the kid might have it, but then what about the other two? And I'm just like so much energy being focused on this house instead of their rich life which be so many other things What do you think I mean, I agree with you. I wish it was easy for me to just be like, ye, that's sell all these properties and do it. but I just I think, um, holding on a little bit longer and making sure they're Kids are a little bit older like he saidays, I feel like they're at a stage right now where they don't really know. How I don't know, adult the quit. Over the age of eighteen, nineteen. So at twenty years old, You make a decision That's eight years from now Mhm How do you feel about that I don't mind if it's twenty or twenty five. I don't even mind if it's thirty. What I mind is In order for you to move forward, you have to start making some decisions. And even if you're wrong about some of them, you have to make decisions. Right now, it's There are no decisions being made. It's just doing more of the same. Very common with immigrants You both are taught from your parents God. just keep going Head down, just keep going Oh, something's not working out Double down work harder That's fine That's why so many immigrants are successful. but at a certain point, it actually is nonsensical to do that in America, especially among performers, rest can be seen as gluttonous. What are you up to today What's your plan for the week? What's your productivity system Like, for example, when people say to me, oh, you must be really busy And I go No, I'm actually Pretty relaxed. And you can see it in their eyes. they're like confused. but Ramit is the CEO. I will teach you to be rich guys on TV. He's just like, no, I'm actually not that busy I don't feel proud about being busy When I was a kid, we used to call my dad at work and he would pick up the phone. And he would talk to us for ten minutes, twenty minutes, forty minutes I don't think he ever once said, okay I have to go We called He was there to talk And that really inspired me that I can choose to not be busy or I can choose to put the people in my life first and not tell them how much stuff I have going on. In America, we get a lot of value not only from how busy we are. tired we are Do you realize how absurd that is? How's it going? Oh, things are crazy. Oh, you must be exhausted, yees. It's work is nuts You're never going to hear me say that. Even if things are incredibly busy, that is not how I identify myself. In fact, I actually think it speaks more to not being in control of what's going on around me. then as a source of pride I'm not impressed by the two of them telling me they can't find time to relax I'm not dazzled by the idea that Their dream is to one day relax I've talked to too many couples who have a dream of traveling and relaxing and doing all these things when they're sixty. And then one of them dies. What kind of life is it to wait when you're a multim millionaire to relax? You can't even watch a movie on a weekday Surely there must be another way There is more to life than being busy. and in fact, if it's up to me, it's not a point of pride. Stop bragging about how tired you are There are so many similarities between personal finance and fitness They both involve following a plan. They both involve being intentional and changing your internal psychology And actually, I find that a lot of people, once they get good at money, they actually transfer that to their own personal fitness. Now part of fitness is also what you eat And to be able to have any tools that make this easier for you is a huge win in my book. So I'd like to introduce you to factactor which lets you eat delicious, nutrient dense meals without all the hassle. Factor is a meal service that delivers fully prepared, ready to eat meals directly to your door And they have a lot of variety. They have over a hundred rotating weekly meals, including high protein options, keto, GLP one friendly. They even have a muscle P collection for strength and workout recovery. Factor meals include lean proteins, colorful veggies, and healthy fats, plus they are never frozen and they are ready to eat in under two minutes. This is an easy way to try introducing systems into your health, specifically the way you eat And if I needed healthy ready made meals, this is what I would use. Head to factactor meeals dot com slash rememath fifty off and use code rememet fifty off to get fifty percent off and free daily greens per box with new subscription only while supplies last until september twenty seventh, twenty twenty six. See website for more details It's nonsensical when I look at your CSP and I see a net worth of four million dollars And I hear you stringing up lights. Four million dollars, age forty one. Three for like that,'s It's sos bad. It's absurd It's actually doing yourselves and your kids a disservice. Why should they have to deal with parents who are tired because they were up till ten, thirty or even stringing up lights when they could pay someone fif thousand five hundred bucks to do this and not deal with it. And in fact, they would learn more effectively because their parents would be showing them how to manage money. You're not showing them how to manage money. You're showing them how to're scared of Yeah, hard work. That's great. They learned hard work. But if you want to succeed now at this income and wealth level It's not only about hard work, it's about knowing when to delegate. It's about knowing that sometimes we don't actually need to even do this but you're just operating on the old playbook. work harder. What do you think? I mean, when you put it that way, it's close your eyes. We could. Um hire somebody to do it, but at the same time Our son was actually out there with us doing it so he's enjoying it. That's cool. For me, I think it's quality time too. Okay. then let's put that example aside. How about all the other stuff fixing the AC and the dishwasher and this and the screening the tenants and all these millions of things that you're doing, which don't allow you to even watch a movie I think I gave you grief last time you made me fix the air condition. I was like, manan I could justost somebody who's gonna cost me a hundred bucks and happily pay that And you're like, I just give it a shot. A hundred bucks. probably. It's like a ninety nine dollars service for you. And you didn't do it She made me fix myself. I mean it was an easy fix, but this identity thing is really interesting that the two of you are stuck in your identities You're a fix it man So you got to fix everything When do you get to graduate beyond that Well, it's not even that I'm a fix it, man. I just I gauge my Disagreements with her, right? Was it worth me to fight over a hundred dollarars charge to have someone come do it or just do it myself? I thought it wouldd be quicker for me to just Fix it and you're going to do that for the rest of your life. You're right It would have been faster for me to send out emails myself until I decided I have bigger and better things on this planet to do. I'm not meant to be an emailer So when do you when did you learn It took me a long time. I wish I had had somebody to tell to me straight like I'm trying to do to you. someone to say You know, you're good at this And you could do this for the rest of your life, and it will be incredibly rewarding for you But how much are you leaving on the table Because by forcing yourself to To do this, you are playing small Having to check my emails, it's very intoxicating because I'm good at it and I can click it and see the metrics, but I'm not learning how to go on YouTube I'm not giving myself room to start talking to other people on a podcast. I'm not writing another book. I'm not doing XYZ, which turned into a Netflix show No I'm sending emails. What is the equivalent for you physical work doesnt work youre right though. It's it's worked at couple that has four million dollars should not be doing. And by the way, I'm not trying to convince you of this. You told me. We want to let off the gas So how do you do it I believe it's by selling Some of the properties not all. Okaykay So let's say you sell some number of the properties. Great. You make some money. What are you going to do with the money? I believe we should pay off if not all, at least a large chunk of our current residence We have a a lot that we purchased in Mexico that's going to be our retirement home that we haven't built yet. I'd love to be able to build that house. All right, so you Pay off the house. you have this other thing in Mexico. What about you Anna, what would you do if you want to Take your foot off the gas and relax I think everything Jay said and just have a good cushion for each kid How much I don't that I don't the amount of money you're talking about, you could end up handanding over your tens of millions of dollars to your kids? Are you aware of that Let's do it. I don't want to do that. Who wants to burden their kids with tens of millions of dollars? They can't even theirir parents can't even hire somebody to string up lights And you're going to hand him twenty million dollars each. Heere to good luck Your kids are that's what you do Guys, you Is this for real? No If you were to hand them the amount that we are talking about right now, considering you're only forty So you're not going to hand them any substantial amount of money for at least ten years, which means it's just compounding, compounding, compounding And then they're going see their parents. All they do is work Their parents do not know how to effectively use money I mean, you have a nice living situation, that's for sure. So they'll know how to buy a big house But How do you travel and appreciate it Do they know Maybe not How do you know when to delegate or when to do it yourself Do they know because their parents don't So you're going to hand them Three million, five million, eight million, twelve million. And what are they going to do with the money B it Or be scared and say I just need to save more. Maybe I need more, Maybe I need more. And by the time they're sixty, what do they have one hundred fifty million dollars And they go, I don't know if we can afford those lunchables mayaybe if we save up a little bit more What is this? I think that your kids are at an age and your wealth is at a level where The consequences of what you're doing today are actually and they're not good The amount of money we're talking about is a substantial amount. I'm not sure that you have internalized how much money you're going to have So right now you have like a four million dollarsar net worth. How much you think you'll have around aged sixty Try closer to eight ton more than that lot more than that Well, let's not even talk about selling the properties. Let's just say at age fifty, you will have two point eight six million dollars. That's at age fifty Let's say fifty five, you'll have four point three million Is that just in our retirement fund? Just investing, not even the properties, which we'll have appreciated. And at age sixty, six point three million. That's just sixty. And you know what happens as it gets bigger and faster. Yeah You can't outrun the compounding. So what happens then? sixix million turns into twelve million? twelve turns into twenty four, twenty four turns into forty eight That's why I wanted to come here with me because again, you've kind of seen a little bit when we have these conversations one on one at home, it's you get stuck You know, I've shown her the math for, you know We're not fire, but our fire number would be if we wanted to retire and we've surpassed that now. Yeah You pass the number Did it change how you fel No ' it's just a number Oh. I don't know, I guess just being able to Go, man. Should we calculate what happens if you sell the properties Please Okay let's run some calculations. Let's just sell them all Just for simplicity's sake Okay I know that you know, you're not going to sell your primary residence stuff, but like let's just see what happens. Keep it simple. and then you all can adjust from there The thing is while we're running those calculations Six million is already a huge amount of money. Four million's are huge, six millions huge, ten million is huge. Does it really matter at a certain point? No? Like what is the difference more money than we need. Yeah, in your lifestyle From four million to six million, there is zero difference in lifestyle. Even ten million, zero difference So it's not about this. It's about this And that's why in order to connect with this, which I suspect is a skill Yeah You may not have learned Most of us don't, especially when our parents immigrate, That's not talked about. It's like work. When you talking about your feelings like That's not a topic we talk about. V but actually At these levels of wealth, you have to connect here. becausecause if you don't connect here, then you just keep running and running and running Which is what we've been doing Yeah I actually think that it would be more valuable for you to learn this skill then to make an extra five million dollars and pass it to your kids The amount they're going to get is already Very large whether it's in the form of a house or cash or equity to be able to get this with their parents who have united over money. who have been like, hey, this is what we did in the first chapter of our life And we worked So you taught them that work ethic. We worked And then this is what we did next That is an incredibly valuable lesson Most kids do not have the luxury of learning that They see their parents work and that's what they see. That's what you see from your parents, right? Your parents too And it's good. I love work. But what about the next step? When do you earn the right to get to the next step? It work for a purpose for sure. I agree with that. So while we're pulling the numbers, Anna, how does it strike you? That were good heard what J's been saying We can startop we really wanted to just sell the properties and enjoy life now, but Sell one, sell all, you can choose what you want to do. You don't have to do it all at once to me, the dream of just like taking a nap This like so easy. Like that's it. If someone has said that to me, like, Remid, your dream is to wake up one morning and not have to log in and do all this QA stuff for your That's it And I would have been like, Yeahah, but that's so crazy. Like I'm the only guy who can do it. in their head, they would have realize they would have seen ahead in a way that I could not see. Remit, you could be connecting with people in person. you could be recording a TV show. playing so small that I was stuck sending emails And that's kind of the same thing I see here I guess that's the part for Jay and I have to figure out how to learn Yeah. What are you saying mean it's hard We'll stick to it more than anything because we've come to that cononclusion, you've said, yeah, let's do it. and then Your mind changed in a couple days The mind changing is another example of scarcity It's the idea that I think I got this right. I need to Double back What if I'm wrong? We should just stick with what we're doing, and you just go right back and retreat back to the thing that you knew You nailed it It happens a lot You guys see a therapist? We do That's good. You talk about this kind of stuff? No No, No, not the money stuff. Could you It seems like it's a very good opportunity to talk about this Yeah s it's weird. mean like I said, having teenage kids, there's When stuff is kind of going sideways, you hyperfocus on Yes. things that aren't money related. Of course And this is indicative of so much Three kids, first of all, is a lot. And at that age And there is natural chaos to it you can't predict and control everything. So Wellll accept that Probably the lack of connection around money shows up in other ways Like, you know, it ass classic kind of story people, they're like fighting over, for example, like physical intimacy, but it's like not really about that. It's about something much deeper So this is where we get the chance to talk once, but you and your therapist can talk much deeper and Money is a manifestation of other things and those other things manifest in money Chaos And like all these numbers being over here and there and not being able to commit to a decision Let's take a look at the numbers if you sell it all. and invest the money Age fifty, you would have seven point two million dollars And that means you could safely withdraw at three percent. like which is pretty conservative. aboutbout two hundred sixteen thousand dollars a year Let's keep going. fifty five ten point two million dollars Aed sixty fourteen point five million dollars And that's just sixty You see how it turns into tens of millions fourourteen turns into twenty eight, turns into fifty six, turns into over a one hundred million dollars. That's insane What's going through your head right now Anna? It's crazy I mean, I wish I wasish, I don't know, could do that It'd be nice I wish we had control of our own properties. I wish that we as the homeowners could do what we wanted with our propertty. That would be so nice. R.ait bust out your magic wand that you haven and dec I wish I wish I had one. Nobody listens to me Go ahead, Anna. I wish but It's like you said,'s like I just always go back and I'm okay, I need I got toa do this and then I'm just going back. I'm like, nope, I gotta stick to this. What do you get out of it? I think it's fear. Yes. I think I think I'm just afraid of Messhing up. Do you accept that you're wealthy? Yes I mean, Jason asks me all the time I feel like we are because Eespecially coming from my background, right? I feel like I'm able to do a lot more for my kids than I didn't have the opportunity to. How about for you U I'm not a spender, so I guess that's For me to say Should a couple that has ten pllus million dollars shouldould each of them be a spender or not No, I think you need to have a saber and a spnder to balance each other out. How about at twenty five million Do you need to have a saver? Yes, because they're the spenders lik to spend too much money because now they're at a different level. Can you spend that much? Could the two of you could the two of you spend could the two of you spend two point five million dollars per year There's no way Even if I tried. Sure I'm wearing a costco shirt and forty dollars pants, is like I'm not that big of a spender yet All jokes aside I like saving, right? In our financial situation, I still have a savings number that I insist that we hit and we do h I don't define myself as being a saver anymore I like to spend money That's what I get after decades of investing. and working hard and making the right decision and being lucky That's what I get. I get to spend And I actually created some rules for myself to make it easier. Like when I go out to a restaurant I don't care how much anything costs. If I see it, I'm getting it. If I see three appppetes, I'm getting three of them. Can you see yourself ever getting to that I think so I think vacations, yes, because I think Jay's gotten me a little bit more lenient because we do have a really good couple friend that we enjoy going to vacations and I think that's probably where Kind of relax. It's interesting that to you relaxes some kind of nirvana. likeike some kind of place where you are not the person you are, but I like the person that you are I don't think you need to be somebody else to be better actually think that it's within you to maybe job. unlock parts of you that have been locked up Everybody can relax. Even your parents, they can relax They may not know how, it may not be socially acceptable. They may have never seen it modeled. They can if they were able to unlock it. What I'm trying to do here is to show you Yeah, the math is easy. There's tens of millions of dollars. You all going to have more money than you ever know what to do with I'm trying to get you to maybe unlock part of this. I don't know if it's I'm not sure Can you work on it at least? I mean, I would love to, I mean Unless me feels like moving to Vegas with them. Be the mediator every time. I think that working on it is a great I think that's a great question. when my wife and I have had issues where one of us needed to improve on something. We were really clear, hey, you need to work on this. Like you've got to get good at this because this isn't helping us go where we need to go And and that's hard to say because it kind of feels like mean and judgmental. It's also hard to hear because you're like, what do you mean? I have to work on it. But with time and with practice and with the help of a therapist where you can bring these kinds of things up That's great. Y'all are very accomplished. obbviously. This is a skill that I think Anna You have to build. the ability to actually unlock parts of you that allow you to feel more joy and to feel more pride and not to assign it to your kids. In fact, talking about your kids and how you want to give your kids this and your kids for weddings That's actually an escape that allows you to avoid unlocking part of you I'm talking about you What I want to hear from you is something like I would love to be able to getet my hair done once a month or my nails or I'd like to be able to go out to this hobby event with my friends and pick up the check Actually, you've been working so hard for this money and it needs to be used You need to give the money the respect that it deserves. Right now, it's languishing locked up in a bank That's not respecting it It needs to be used for your rich life. Jay, what is your reaction to what you're hearing I mean, you put it way more eloquently than I ever did. That's exactly what I tell her.'s the money is depreciating in the bank, right?? And that's why I do I kind of go overboard sometimes on the spending becausecause I know what I could buy today with that dollar is not going to be the same thing I could buy in next year Do you see how that might also be contributing to Anna feeling a little bit scarce about money I could see that, but it's always been an issue even before I got to the spending. I mean, I haven't always spent this much right. But Even before we didn't have as much as we do now, she's always been this way since she was sixteen, seventeen years old, right? Here's what I propose. I propose that Two of you actually get clarity on how much you have every month And I think you should actually make a plan for what to do with that. If you have five thousand dollars a month And if you really want to pay off one of the mortgages a little early Okay takeake some of that and put it towards that. But also you've got to spend some of it on fun And some of it has to be on just you. So for example, if you were to take a thousand dollars a month on just you, what would you do with it Maybe you go to San Diego hang out my sisters. Nice What else? Ejoy a nice dinner H you. I don't know. I think just that. just. canan I jump in real quick here? C so? Last year, each of us opened our own separate savings account that we each put a little bit of money. Good. So she's had well over one thousand dollars to spend and she literally has spent zero. Okay This is a good example When the money is there. I think the agreement think you should both come up with is that once that money is there, it has to be spent within Now that's scary because if it's like a thousand dollars a month, I mean, your answer was fly to San Diego and go to a restaurant I don't think the Vegas to San Diego flight is even like two hundred and fifty bucks So you got dinner? What else? And you have to do this every month. My point is It starts to become a skill that you have to build Now why am I forcing you to spend your money kindind of. Because right now you're really good at accumulating it, but you're not good at spending it You're not That's o. It's just a skill you haven' developed. But I actually want you Do it for yourself I want you to do it for the two of you because you can see your husband is like really serious about this. I actually want you to do it for your kids too Eespecially your daughters who need to see their mom actually enjoying the money that she worked for What do you think they would do if they saw that Are we happy? They'd be happy for you, huh Okay What's making you cry when we talk about your daughter seeing you enjoy your money I don't know. I just I wish I could. I wish I could just do that, go out and just enjoy the mue with my kids Especially my girls. It's just hard It's hard. It's not something I've leared to do. I don't know, it has to be from the way I was brought up with my mom because I never saw her spend money. Would you have liked to to see her enjoy it? Yes I would But your daughters would say the same thing Yeah. I actually bet your daughters would love it if they asked you Hey, mom, can we go out to lunch? And you said, sorry, I have a massage appointment I'm gonna get to, so can't do it today. Maybe next week. I bet they would love it At one point I asked my parents talking about their finances And I was like, you know You Gott to spend it. It's important you worked hard What are you doing with it? And I put them on a travel plan, but the travel plan was they had to spend at least this much every month And they were kind of resistant to it Probably like all of our parents. And u I was like, what are you can do with the money? And they were like, we're gonna give it to you. I' like, why do I want your money? All of us have been successful because they came here and taught us the value of hard work So we want them to spend every last cent while they are alive And y'all are forty You know, your prime spending years forty to sixty Fty to see you're both mobile, healthy. kids Same for them And who knows what happens after that? People get sick, people get injured, people have parents who they have to take care of and they can't travel gift to actually be able to spend that money thoughtfully responsibly but extravagantly, in those prime spending years. So I know it's hard You didn't come here because I was going to ask you easy things But it's really important What do you think And mean I would love to work on that That's a skill that can be worked on Do you see how difficult it is for Anna to even dream about what she wants? Like it's Visceral and physical that she is struggling to come up with ideas And I think this is striking, especially for everybody watching who initially started this video going, Boooo, multimillionaire couples, what a tough life I want you to see that even when you have lots more money It is very, very likely that you will also struggle mechanics and the psychology of money Over and over, I show you couples that are in this situation and what do you say? Ho me, so unrelatable That's not the point. I want you to look deeper. Why am I bringing these couples on my show? I am showing you a crystal ball into your future You're following my system. You've read my book, your investments are automated. Soon enough, you're going to have more money than you ever thought possible Are you going to magically be in control of your money and your money psychology. Not if you don't work on it And that's what we see here I actually really look forward to talking to you like in a year hearing what you've done, what you've seen It could be as small as bought this little thing for our house, it makes life easier and as big as some big, cool trip that you're gonna take if you make some changes What do you think will happen to the two of you It could be selling one house, it could be selling them all. It could be selling none, but the two of you agree on your plan. and if you make those changes What do you think will happen to your relationship? I believe it always bring us closer, right? Bea there is a lot of stress kind of looming Our primary residence and one of the homes that we keep talking about selling is just it's We're talking about close to twelve thousand dollars in mortgages between the two properties. N's just, you know, principal and interest. We're not talking about all the other phhantom costs. So we went away with one of those, I think would let her rest at these a little bit more O brought that up before, but I think she pushes back Ins subconscious, but I think that alone, that would be a lot of weight off both of our shoulders. do you want to make a decision about that right now You want to look at the numbers more carefully What's going through your head I don't know, I definitely don't want to make any decisions that Like you said, I haven't carefully thought about. How long you' been thinking about that one Two years. over a year? T years. Maybe just a few more months. you feel nervous about making a decision. Yes because just like Jay says,' I always live in the past I always make a decision and then I'm like I shouldn't have done that. Why did I do that? I would have held on if I would have done this Looking backwards living in the past, was it get you Keep thinking in the past. Keep th Luck you says What does it get you though? It must be something because you're doing it I don't know if it gives me anything positive to be honest with you,. Well it gets you something to get you Control to get you feeling like I'm smart because I see the angles of the things that I made a mistake on in the past. Yeah, you're right K of like when I was writing those emails and sending them it made me feel smart M me feeling control I was actually missing the bigger picture the bigger opportunities Yeah, you're right I'm not going to tell you to stop living in the past. No one can change that quickly, but I wouldd rather add something to your toolbox. What if you start living more in the future. the future Right now, forty to sixty, that's the prime spending years you could Snd a little bit more, relax a little bit more, live your rich life. What would it be I do more things for my girls You got anything in mind we take him to the spar Oh Do doing the caspad day with them they' enjoy it. I like that. What would you tell them Let's have fun Could we just do this right now Do you want text him? Yeah, I would love that Really? Okay, pull out your phone Thank you Tell me what are you thinking of writing to them This's a big moment. Yeah, it is Do you guys want to B day with mommy Okay pump it up even more If they saw that, they're going to be like Who stole my mom's phone, right? Okay, this is such a great chance to tell him How much you love them how lucky you are to have worked so hard that you can take them together read it. She she put, ye, sure. What is she saying What's wrong, Bro I was gonna say me, I don't know how much you text teenage girls, but I was kind of waiting for that kind of response I think I' bro and not bro Yeah, that's a good start What do you see in it We'd love to what's wrong. Oh, sorry, I read it wrong. What's wrong though N bro. She does A bra all of What's wrong? Why do you think she's saying that? I I said I don't really Yeah, it's new for you It's almost like you're trying on a new outfit, even a new skin. It's new for you It's okay that she says what's wrong. There's nothing wrong Nothing's wrong at all. In fact, everything's right Money is right. The two of you are right You worked hard, you get a chance to take your daughters out for a spa day Nothing's wrong. I love you. That's it Any wentter weversher? Yeah. L has teacks So You asked them, would you like to do a spa day with Mommy? She said, Yeahes, sure, we would love to What's wrong though your response was Awesome, Mommy and Popppy work really hard and I would love to treat you and your other daughter to have some fun And your daughter wrote, Oh, okay, yeah, sounds good. Tell Ramit, I said hi and I love him It's a really cool way of connecting with your daughters differently. Really cool. I kind of love seeing how challenging that was for you. You did it I'm really proud of you. Thank you. I am too. Thank you. This is the beginning of changing your relationship with money It's funny because you know, some people watching like, I never saw somebody struggle so much to go to a spa day. But actually it's you taking the first step towards a new identity. First for yourself Next for the two of you And they The cool thing is you've been talking about this for a long time, but sometimes it's like Enough talking You got to take one step Do it, have fun. Slurge, get the massage And uh thenen the two of you can work on your rich life together Now, Anna, you mentioned you want to work on improving your relationship This was a great start. What's another way that you can commit to keep really working on this I would say work less, but I know that one's work challenging. Okay, so it's not that. What's something you can win at I'll throw some ideas out. If I'm in both of your situations, I would A agree to make a decision about the house's within S weeks longong enough that you can run some numbers, but Short enough that that's it This is the decision we're making. Boom. You can always revisit the decision a year from now, but if you decide to sell one house, you're going to sell one house. Boom Can I ask A question about that. So what how do we hold accountability on because this again, this is a Something that we've already agreed to do multiple times. Well, I think you should agree to it here And again, I'm suggesting six weeks. you might say four weeks. you might say eight weeks. You should make an agreement now. and I think that you should follow up with this in weekly therapy This you should talk about this probably the biggest decision you're making in your family right now. one hundred percent. Ultimately, it's really making the decision That's what matters and you both got to feel good about it Okay, so that's what I would say. The next thing I would do is I would work on some individual therapy as well as the couples's therapy that you're doing That is a way to commit to it. Hey, once a week, I'm going to go see an individual therapist about this very topic. That's Big commitment powerowerful Third, I might say once a month The two of us are going to watch a movie together Just that Middle of day for sure so they could stay up. Really simple in the grand scheme of things, but it actually profoundly changes the way that you've treated money before. Those are my suggestions. You don't have to follow them could change him Skip them, whatever, but what do y'all think? Make some commitments. Anna and going now, I think we could do. six weeks might be pushing it on the properties, but I could try to work on that Let's pick a note A month and a half, don't think you can make a decision. a month and a half Try that a different way. tryry encourag I believe you're a very intelligent person and I believe that a month and a half, should is it sufficient time for you to be able to make W. a decision on whether or not we sell that property What do you think Yes I can tell it's It's scary to even commit to making a decision I want to encourage you and you will discuss this probably with a therapist. that What scares you is probably the very thing you need to do. starting to make definitive decisive decisions. actually the thing that's going to get you out of this paralysis It feels so good to make decisions feels really good. It's a skill Like you taught kids to ride a bike Oh, it's so scary, oh my Godd, I can never do it. No it feels really good to pedal You wouldn't do that too So that's one Other commitments I'm one hundred percent going out to the movies and watching a movie together. Yeah. Or even as simple as taking an afternoon and laying on the couch and watching the game or a movie there R right, we don't have to go somewh Just relaxing more I'm okay with that. Which day Friday usually works best Friday or Saturday. Friday it is is nothing like a weekday movie very free. Okay, Friday, one of the next four Fridays putut on the calendar and honor it. And then what commitment do you want to make? I'm going to commit to be a little bit more cognizant on the spending. I would love to Be able to have you feel more comfortable spending a little bit more on yourself because you you've earned it you. You do a lot for the family and you deserve it. How much Ballarket. I'm okay with a thousand bucks a month on something that's just for you Right, Nothing to do with the kids or the house or anything How do you feel about that Yeah, it feels good.. It's definitely to be a challenge, but yes.ood. Can you commit to spending that That's the challenge part. That's the challenge part. Yeah, just to give you some ideas because Love. talking about how to spend more money meaningfully, okay? I wish more people asked me Anna can do several things. Anna can buy New clothes U new workout accessories massage, any of that. Anna can also go and tip somebody two hundred and fifty dollars or Write a check to a charity for seven hundred and fifty dollars and I can do. whatever she wants but she has to spend thousand dollars. per month. What do you think? Can you make that commitment? I don't think I can. Okay tellell me the number you can two hundred eta two hundred That's fine me. How do you feel about that than nothing. It's a great start, ye two hundred Perfect. two hundred bucks for you, and you gott to do the same. He goes, no problem. I'll spend that in the next fifteen minutes. g. two hundred bucks for you And I think you two should share with each other. Not to be judged. There's no judgment whatsoever. They could spend it on the weirdest thing ever And you say, that sounds awesome I want you to get in the habit of talking about it of being unapologetic about it I like it right What surprised you most about our conversation today I mean, I knew she had a problem with not spending money, but I didn't know it was this that severe It's crazy to know how much your upbringing truly has on. on your money and the way you spend it Um, So it was a very eye open experience from day one. to find things out about myself and Anna. Good. Anna, what about you? What surprised you about the conversation? How much am I tr her from my mom Mm A lot. Yeahah And your mom She did a great job. She did the best she could differentiffere circumstances But if your mom imagined growing up in California And then Nevada and having properties in childildren and houses and She probably would not Dud what she did in your circumstance. So you actually get the chance to write that. and then your kids They will rewrite what they see as well It's cool I think it's an amazing opportunity, amazing insight How did you feel coming in here versus how do you feel now I was super nervous Yeah veryy nervous, but feel like better understanding of The reasons why it I am the way I am with money? Yeah. It's a gift too be able to understand yourself more is really cool Nice work Jay, how are you Same, definitely nervous, but u I feel good because now we've got a non biased third party that's kind of hitting home the same things that I've been telling Anna for years and I'm hoping that He h's home this time around right. She understands that. Both of you have been really vulnerable and I appreciate that I think we've opened up a lot of kind of like where you your beliefs about money come from, I'd like to encourage both of you journey that you are about to go on is actually going to take both of you openen up and to change Because until now both of you have basically worked, worked worked. And um this is where I think another unbiased third party can help you Construct a way to talk about this I say this because You mention that once in a while when one of you relaxes, the other one will kind of half jokingly go like, hey, what are you doing Why are you chilling get up And so you have these bonds together An identity of we work. That's what we do. We work. It's going to take a lot of careful Unraveling. building something new and it's going to be tough to do it on your own. That's why I'm so glad you came here. You need somebody outside and you're going to need somebody outside to help you keep doing it So that's why I encourage you see other folks, coaches, therapists others They'll help you get where you need to go My wish for them actually has very little to do with the money side of. My wish for them is to develop a skill And that is the skill of being decisive. It actually sucks. to go through life being indecisive You take one step forward, two steps back. Even when you make a decision you look back and ruminate over it It's not a healthy place to be. And especially if you are a high performer, it stops you. It's almost like going through life with brakes on can't reach your full potential. What a waste. So I want them to become more decisive together Not one, not the other. I want Anna to build the confidence of saying, This is what I think we should do. and for her to build a support system so that she can talk about that skill. It's going be hard For Jay, I want him to be a good support system for Anna. I noticed that a couple of times he said stuff like, this is what I've been telling you That's gott to stop. and for him to provide clarity to her and encouragement so that they can both start to effectively use their money What do I think is going to happen I think it's gonna be really hard I think that people who have spent their entire lives wororking hard seeing exhaustion as an aspiration.