Celebrity Silence and Political Consequences

Patrick loves dining out. Omar loves takeout. And Katie, she cooks from scratch because no two people are the same. So their credit cards shouldn't treat them the same. That's why we made the TD cash credit card. It lets you choose which spend categories earn unlimited three percent cash back, like on dining, groceries, or gas. It's how TD is making banking more human. Terms and conditions apply Ctd. com slash cash for details. Welome to the Rachel Madow Show. Morning Joe, the briefing with Jen Zaki, and more voices you know and trust. MS Now is your source for news, opinion. and the world Learn more at MS. now But look at the stock market. Every day it's hitting a new high. I think it's eighty two times now. in a short period of time. eighty two And that's a good thing, not a bad thing. And all of you that have four hundred one Ks, which are many who has a four hundred one K? four hundred one K? big percentage of the audience. Everyone that has a four hundred one K is setting records right now in your four hundred one K Your wife, your husband, your kids, they all think you're a genius I'm the genius, I'm the one that. I'm only kidding smattering of applause for the four hundred one K there. President Trump, using his favorite metric to talk about the state of the economy, the stock market. The president's financial disclosures show he has made billions of dollars from stocks and crypto since returning to the White House. He was asked about all of it yesterday. We will have his response. Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal editorial board is slamming the president and his family for cashing in on the presidency, while so many Americans are struggling financially. We'll show you what Trump voters in Florida had to say about his profiting while in office. Good morning, Welcome to morning, Joe. It is Thursday, july second with us this morning, the co host of our eight AM hour, staff writer at the Atlantic Jonathan Lemere, contributing writer to thetlantic, Eugene Robinson, MS now's senior Capitol Hill repeporter and host of way too early Ally Vitali and Pident Eeritus of the Council on Foreign Relations, Richard Has He's author of the Substack Home in a wayay, as well as the recent book, The Bill of Obligations. ten habits of good citizens feels especially appropriate as we get set this weekend to mark ry's two hundred fiftieth birthday. Good morning to everybody. Jonathan, we got to start with soccer though last night. Team USA, the men doing it and making it. difficult on themselves down a player after Balligan, one of our star players got a red card was sent off ten players on the field with a one goal lead. look for all the world like Bosnia, Herzegvina had a way to tie it up here. Here's the red card, which we can debate here. probablyrobably not a red card. He'll be lost for the next game two, which should point out, but the grit and the fight of this team to then come back and score a goal short handanded and win two nil to advance to play now in the sweet sixteen against Belgium. What a match. Americ An obligation of good citizens to be furious about that red card. That was you know, that is it is game changing yesterday and we will have Big impact from Monday, but first let's dell on the good resounding a really thrilling win for the U.S. last night. Bosnia was game. the US were favored yesterday. We' though we had not beaten the European team in any competition in five years, but with with homefield advantage. They controlled play. they broke through with that goal late in the first half one nothing, then we get the card. And this is a team US teams past crumple here, perhaps. Like that they playing down a man and that you, you could see them giving up that lead. Instead, they were resilient. That free kick goal felt like to borrow the NBA phrase, a ball don't lie moment. Like it was a bad call. We then got the goal afterwards, to nothing, got the win we needed now Monday Monday's a winnable game. Belgium is really good, but they struggled yesterday with Senegal. They were lucky they survived against a Senegal team that frankly looked better than them. This is This is not one of the stronger Belgian editions we've seen in a while. Monday night in Seattle will be a scene and the US on the precipice of heading to the quarterfinals. and if they make it that far, that would be a resounding triumph For this program, you're hosting this World Cup. Yeah, I mean, when you're down to ten players, you're just on defense hoping you can maybe keep it to a tie at that point, but then to go on offense and take a to nothing lead and win the match. Just incredible. It will be difficult without Baligan against Belgium. That's why that red card is all the more maddening. But we'll be talking a lot about this team in the days to come. Yesterday, we spent a good part of the show talking about these new financial disclosures that reveal President Trump earned two billion dollars last year while in office. Now he is defending his wealth We did that yesterday in exchange with reporters What message does this send to average Americans, especially those now financially. I don't get involved in my personal we have funds that run my money. But you wont benefit? Well, I've made a lot of money before I became president. and they invest my money and I don't talk to them. I don't even speak to them. Butics to critics who say you're profiting off the presidency mister Well, you know what I'm profiting ' the stock market is going up. Everybody's profiting. You have a four hundred one K How's your four hundred one K done? It's about up eighty five percent. Thank you, President Trump. So we're all profiting. I'm profiting because I have a lot of money and a lot of cash. and I give it to institutions. I don't know if they know what they're doing or not,. They buy a vast array of things Not all of his earnings, though, came from stocks. He's focused on the To there. Analysis the president's nine hundred and twenty seven page disclosure reveal at least one point four billion dollars of Trump's wealth was accumulated through cryptocurrency deals. That includes six hundred thirty five million dollars from the sale of his own meme coin also drew more than five hundred million dollars from token sales and sixty five million dollars from selling equity stake relelated to Wld Fancial Liberty. company he co founded with his sons. The president continued to make money from his real estate holdings, including one hundred twenty one million dollars Trump National Dural, seventy seven million dollars from Mar a Lago, and thirty nine million dollars from Trump Tower Chicago. The forums show another eighty million dollars from various legal settlements. Rember those Companies like Meta, ABC, CBS, and YouTube Further analysis also finds that on the same day, President Trump purchased up to five million dollars each of tech stocks Including NVidia, Microsoft, and Apple, his administration unveiled an artificial intelligence action plan, those stocks all have increased since then. This as the president claims advisors manage his accounts, without consulting him. So Jonathan, the numbers here, the more we pour through these and the more details we get about them, the more staggering they become. It's in total more than two billion dollars in a single year while sitting in office And while his government is making policies that help create more wealth for not just President Trump, but for his sons as they run companies, as well, all of this, of course While people are struggling to pay for gas and groceries in this country, and the president says, well, four one Ks are doing great. Yes. The people he knows, the people who hang out on the patio at Mar a Lago are doing great, but most Americans are not right now No, they're not. And it is such a striking dichotomy here that the president is I keep reminded of a quote he gave to the New York Times last year where he in his words, he claimed that in this first term, he played by the rules, you know, and you didn't you know, he divested himself, he claims, mostly from his businesses and didn't make money off the presidency. Now, we can fact check some of that He said I did all those things, and I'm paraphrasing only slightly, and nobody cared. So he's not even bothering this time around. He is trying to make as much money for himself and his family, you as he can during this first term. And we've gone through the suspicious timing of a number of investments. We have gone through on this show, of course, all the money he's made out of crypto. when we saw there that sort of inadvertent visual As he was talking to reporters on the Tarmac yesterday at Joint Base Andrews in front of the New Air Force One, which mind you, a gift from the Qataris, and who was standing behind him, but his adult children. Don Junior and Eric Trump were right there, and they're the ones who were benefiting from this and they've been blatant in their efforts to profit off of the presidency. We can see them there you know, and Richard certainly, this is a moment where to Willie's point The president only has one measure of the economy. It's always been that case, and that's the stock market. And yes, there's been some ups and downs with the war, but largely it's an upward trajectory. a lot based on the AI companies and such. So we'll see, there's some fears that it could come tumbling down at some point. But he's making money, his rich friends are making money, his families are making money You know, but we saw at the opening of this show, who has a four hundred one K? There's like three people collaaped. It's a nice representation. A lot of Americans simply aren't doing nearly as well as he is. things. One is if you basically claim success based on the stock market, you're setting yourself up. for a problem down the road because it's always a question of when not if you have corrections. Stock markets less, I check do not defy the laws of gravity. Alsoough I'm old enough to remember when going into government meant a degree of sacrifice. The idea is that not just the reality, but the appearance of conflict of interest, part of the public trust And the idea that the blatency of this, the nakedness of it,'s really interesting. And in a sense he's getting away with corruption. you know, peopleople went after Hunter Biden for it now looks like penny Anthy stuff And without excusing that. But this is on a scale that is really unprecedented to the best of my knowledge. but I actually think the president and his family are getting away with it. It's almost like we're all Jonathan so worn down And he's just doing it. and it's one of a million things from reflecting pools to this to you name it. And so we can talk about it. but again, he's His family is going to become one of the wealthier families in America or the world And When you talk about six hundred thirty six million dollars from this Trump meme coin, which effectively has no actual value The President made a ton of money off that. But the people he talked into investing in it lost money on it. And that's why you hear perhaps a growing number of even MAGA voters expressing their frustration with President Trump. MS now spoke To some Florida residents who voted for Trump and asked them about the president making more than two billion dollars in his first year in office for himself, including more than a billion dollars on those crypto ventures. Here's what they had to say That's very frustrating to actually hear that. And like I said, I don't do the politics and stuff, but to hear that come from another American that, you know is not getting two million dollars put in their pocket. billion. Two billion, two million, two triillion, you know, that's a lot of money. You know, that's a lot of money, and that would help out a lot of people around here A lot of homeless people, you could open shelters, you could really help somebody out with that. Somebody's making money and a side. it's not me That's all I got toa say. Is it frustrating? It's frustrating that you see your president getting richer and richer and the middle class is getting pooreor Okay That's about it. Life in America right now the economy's tough. People are struggling, you know Hopefully it'll change. He definitely made lots of promises and he made them seem like they were going to come a lot quicker faster than they actually were to ever come or ever will come. Like ninety percent of all the elections in the past, you know, the candidates they promised the moon and fallhore at the end of the day But I mean I don't think it was Donald Trump that we saw in twenty sixteen and I don't think that he can make up for it and what's left of his current term Those are all Trump voters in Florida yesterday. The Wall Street Journal editorial board out this morning with a new piece. They're calling the Trump family an honest Graft. The board writes this.Quote, Americans tell pollsters they don't think they're getting ahead financially, but President Trump and his family are having no trouble, judging from his twenty twenty five financial disclosure report released Tuesday The Trump Kan is cashing in on the presidency in big and sketchy ways, writes the journal It's hard to believe the Trump boys would be able to do the same deals if Dad wasn't in the oval Office. The main difference between Hunter Biden's foreign dealings and the Trump projects is that the Trumps are brazenly open about theirs. There will be political costs for Republicans if Democrats take back the House or Senate this November They will have a field day probing the Trump family deals. Charges of GOP corruption will resound through twenty twenty eight. Americans and especially Trump's supporters deserve better from this or any president. Again, Gene Robinson, those were Trump voters we heard from. That's the Wall Street Journal editorial board that we heard from after that. This is not coming from progressives, this is not coming from the left. This is not a political matter to a lot of people. And that's probably why it's broken through in such a way when you have so many people again struggling, while the president seems shameless and proud, in fact of making two billion dollars for himself just in the first year in office Yeah, neeither Trump nor his family seems to care at all about these appearances. They just want to make the money. I mean I think that was part of the plan all along was to cash in on the presidency to the maximum extent possible, not just a little bit, not just you know, they never they don't do things halfway U they're they're just going to try to climb the billionaiire's list on the backs of the American people on the backs of the American taxpayer. It is outrageous, especially the day when he's you know flying around in this jet, this four hundred million dollar Jet renovated to the tune of another at least four hundred million dollars given to him by Qatar and apparently going to be given to him personally or to his foundation when he leaves office. This is just simple graft. It's corruption. Mbe maybe people in general are are numb to this, but U I'm not sure, I'm not sure that people are immune to this because it's just so blatant And it's out there in a way that it's hard to ignore Coming up, members of Congress are gathering in Philadelphia today ahead of this weekend's july fourth celebrations. We will talk about that bipartisan meeting at a time of so much division. Morning Joe iss coming right back House Osight Committee Chairman James Comer, who of course, led an extensive investigation into the Biden family's financial dealings that went nowhere, yesterday was pressed about President Trump's new financial disclosures Well, first of all, the difference in Trump and Biden is Trump's putting him on his disclosure form. So he's being transparent about the great amount of wealth that he's accumulated over the past twelve months, whereas the Biden family were not transparent and to this day have not admitted what I believe you and I 've talked about before, they were taking money from other countries. Now, do I like what President Trump's doing? I mean, that's know, obviously another discussion. But at the end of the day, what he what he's done is he's filled out his disclosure form and I don't think he's left anything out So he he's in compliance with the law. I think the laws should be looked at with respect to you know what assets and what type of income a president and their family should be allowed to earn while the president's in office. We've never had a president that was a businessman Congressman Comer Ally, as you know very well, is known almost only for his investigation into Hunter Biden. He was very concerned about his sitting on the board of Barismo while his father was vice president and then dug in elements of his personal life as well. Here he says, off course, it's corrupt. It's wrong, but at least he's telling us he's doing it Well, that's a different conversation, right? I mean, I think when the journal says that it is brazenly open the way that Trump is doing this graft right now of trying to make these billions and billions of dollars, They're saying it inredjudously. Can you believe they're doing it so out in the open? Comer is basically saying, well, they're doing it in the open. Pos for transparency and for abiding by the law of disclosing the money that you are making I do think that it begs the question of the way that Republicans will try to defend this in Washington, the way that Democrats will mire this in the golden age of letter writing, saying if we get the majority back, we will investigate this. Ultimately, the most important thing is what those voters told our colleague, Alex Tabbott, the idea that it smacks of something unfair They are, it seemed at a gas station when prices are only just now coming back to reality after an Iran war that Trump began. and they are still saying they have affordability concerns. And the White House seemingly continues to be making a split screen that is unfortunate politically for them heading into the midterms where affordability remains the top concern, whether it's on housing or healthcare or on gas prices And the administration continues with financial disclosures that show Not millions, as Tabbot had to correct, but billions of dollars in wealth growth for them and the Trump sons. And then it's a continued split screen that they had, even back during the government shutdown at the end of last year, Trump was throwing Gatsby parties at Mar a Lago and the government was shut down. and we were questioning how Americans were going to be standing in food bank lines because they didn't know when their next paycheck was coming It's the same split screen that happens when Trump calls affordability a hoax, but then continues to press on vanity projects like the Reflecting pool and building the claw on the White House North laawn or South laawn. And so I think they continue with these split screens against the backdrop, Willy of the fact that they had basically an open book test on the right way to message on the economy. They passed that test actually in twenty twenty four When Trump won the election By continuously highlighting the ways that the Biden Harris administration wasn't effectively communicating or solving affordability questions. And yet even after watching that administration struggle to pass that test, this administration is now coming back around with frankly, the same talking point we heard from the Biden admin, which was, isn't the stock market doing great? And it turns out, once again, the stock market is not the litmus test for the economy that the American public wants Coming up, our next guest says Hollywood suddenly is going silent about President Trump. Molly Jhong Fast has a new column about that. She joins us straight ahead on Morning Joe Normally in these ads, you'd expect someone like me to ask you to buy something I want to ask you to do something different I'm Dave Farrenold, and I'm a reporter for New York Times I'm an investigative reporter, which means that I follow the money inside of government and outside of government The point of my job is to find things people are trying to hide It involves talking to lots of people. it involves looking through lots and lots of documents And if there weren't folks like me to go beyond the surface to understand who was really shaping what the government does The public will be left in the dark about what the government's doing with your tax money What the government's doing to you through regulations and spending? If you're like me and you think this kind of journalism is important Seek out a news source that does firsthand fact based reporting If that's the New York Times. Thank you. If that's your local paper That's great too becausecause where you get your information matters Listen to your favorite MS Now shows anytime as a podcast. Enjoy new episodes of Morning Joe, Deadline White House, and the Rachel Madow Show. Every small D Democratic muscle that we have is flexing. Plus the last word with Lawrence O'Donneald, the beat with Ari Melbour, The Weeknight, and more. O the go Whver you get your podcasts, For ad free listening to all of your favorite shows, subscribe to MS Now Premium on Apple Podcasts Welcome back. Members of Congress will gather at Philadelphia's Independence Hall today to commemorate the two hundred fiftieth anniversary of the Continental Congress's vote for independence Now, due to security concerns, not many details about the event are yet known, but Democratic congressman Brandon Boyle represents the Philadelph area, is hosting the event and says it will be bipartisan and that he hopes It will provide a rare opportunity for lawmakers to reflect on the country's shared history Let's bring in MS now Congressional reporter Kevin Fry, who joins us live from Philadelphia. Kevin, fill us in if you can about what we know more about today's event and what is meant to be its significance Yeah, I mean, look, this was a day that John Adams said would be full of pomp and parade. He was off by two days, but this was the notable one. This is when the Congress adopted the Lee resolution to say that we are going to be independent. July fourth, of course, is when they adopted the decclaration. And so Congress is coming here to basically mark this occasion and say that we are remembering the two hundred fiftieth. and you're going to see At least I have been told, some Democrats and some Republicans coming together. This is not a meeting of Congress, but it is a ceremony. They're going to sign a resolution commemorating this day. They're going to gather in Congress Hall, which is just off to the side of Independence Hall, which is where Congress met for a few years the beginning of the country. So this is a chance for them to reflect back and perhaps point forward and hope That they can have this moment of Kumbaya. Of course, we've not seen a lot of that in Washington. And this notably, of course, comes also, as we have seen, a lot of the two hundred fifty celebrations, Democrats in particular, are eager to say, politicized by the president. And we have some new reporting out just this morning that we got an early look at a report from Democrats on the Natural Resources Committee in the House Wh they say that in addition to just alleging that Trump has taken over the two hundred fifty celebrations by setting up his own separate organization replacing a congressionally created bipartisan commission, but alleging that the new committee that Trump set up went so far as engaging in potential wire fraud by basically misleading donors to suggest that they could be giving to the bipartisan group and instead be giv to this other And so the list also goes on from there of trying to direct contracts to some of Trump's allies. We have reached out to the White House to the Freedom two hundred fifty group to try to get some response. Freedom two hundred fifty, of course, to kind of contextualize this is behind among other things, the UFC fights on the White House lawn, also the ongoing state fair on the national Mall Now, I had a chance to talk to Republicans over the last couple days to ask them about how they feel about how President Trump has been handling the two hundred fifty celebrations. Most of them have told me, they think he's great. One guy told me he's mr. America. They love that he's putting prayer back before the country. and another individual said However, there are some Republicans that if you talk to them do express some degree of reservation, one saying, that you know it would be great if this was a bipartisan gathering, not so partisan in its take. Another lawmaker, Cgressman Don Bacon, told me that look, he hopes the president on july fourth, when he gives this big speech on the National Mall, is making a speech about America, not just about himself But Bacon also told me that that doesn't seem to be the president's propensity. So a moment of bipartisan here bipartisanship here in Washington or in Philadelphia, we expect today But still the rancor over the president's handling of this celebration continues A safe bet that the presresident will make that july fourth speech. At least in part about himself. Congrression reporter for MS now, Kevin Fry, reporting live from Philadelphia, Kevin. thank you so much. Let's bring into the conversation now. Professor of history at Tulane University, historian Walter Isaacson. He's the author of the New York Times B best selling book The greatest sentence ever written Also with us, the host of Money Politics Power on MS Now Stephanie Rule and the Stephanie we're get to the jobs report number just crossing in a moment. But Walter first to you seeing the indndependence hall is the backdrop there in Philadelphia, you have given, of course, a lot of time and and fought to what this two hundred fiftieth anniversary means for our nation Give us this is what it should have been. is everybody coming together. We have one founding set of principles And it's enshrined in that mission statement, which they approve on july fourth July seconds the today, they vote for independent It would have been great if we had used this anniversary bring people together and say, hey, we're all part of a great nation. Instead of this America three hundred and fifty fighting against the freedom America two hundred fifty against freedom two hundred fifty instead of having the divisiveness So no, I agree, and I think that there's been complaint from so many that this has not been a unity. And I think we'll see in small towns and cities celebr and it's great. I've been all over and people are planning their two hundred fiftieth. But you see it at the national level and I guess maybe going today to Philadelphia can take some of the poison out of All right. Well, Steph, let's turn to the jobs number now just coming across. US employers adding fifty seven thousand jobs That' in June and unemployment dpp four point two percent. Give us your sense on that. So the unemployment rate is basically the same. It was at four point three, it's now at four point two. The estimates, we were expecting jobs to come in between one hundred and ten, one hundred fifteen thousand they're not. fifty seven thousand is definitely a miss. and we've seen downward revisions for the last two monthsombined seventy four thousand for people in signaling that jobs are absolutely slowing in this country. We are seeing employers at the very least ress pa So the question is, what is the Fed going to do? Now the assumption has been, could the Fed raise rates as we go into the end of the year because inflation is a persisting problem. At the very least, we're guessing they're going to hold tight. But one thing is for sure, we're not going to hear much from Kevin Wars. The one thing we know about Kevin Warsh is he is not he thinks that the Fed has been communicating too much over the last five or ten years, he's going to pull back. So will the president get a rate drop unlikely. But if you're thinking they're going to raise rates in the near term, probably that's not going to be the case given where the jobs are report. So what are some of the others other quick takeaways here is what this can tell us about the state of the economy Listen, things are slowing. When you go beneath AI, right AI, which has been superpowered, When you go beneath the magnificent seven tech companies, there are a lot of businesses out there struggling. smallall and medium sized businesses, whether it's the impact of the war, the impact of the tariffs, just overall changes in the economy, we're seeing a general slowing. Now this is not a disaster by any means But things are not booming. The thing that's booming is the stock market and the stock market is different from the economy. Stephanie, the big question of our time is is AI going to destroy jobs or is it going to create more jobs and it destroys The number everybody has press releases about oh, layoffs layffs The numbers keep showing us. No there are more and more jobs. Are we starting to see AI nip into the total employment num? It's too soon to tell. We know that AI is the future. I think the bigger question is Are we in an AI bubble? And remember, the internet was the future in nineteen ninety nine. It's just that it was overvexuberant. There was too much investing. So there could be too much investing and too much excitement around AI right now. We may be five years away from things really developing. There may be too much investment, too much enthusiasm, right? There was a sneaker company just a few weeks ago That was in serious trouble. and they then put out a big press release, We're not an athletics company anymore. We're now an AI company. When I saw that headline, I'm like, takeake us back twenty years and remove AI and callall it dot comot AI is changing every element of the way that we work, the way we live, the way we play. It's going to change jobs, isn't going to increase or destroy that remains to be seen We just have to be prepared for massive changes. Well, you know, down in New Orleans where I tend to live We have a career center, New Orleans Career Center, and they're starting to really see people being trained for these new data centers, doing HVAC, doing electricity, doing carpentry, whatever. Do you think you'll see a shift to more physical jobs in the future? I think there'll be both, but I think it's great news to see this shift to these physical jobs because higher skilled physical labor, and they're having more and more training programs to prepare people for those jobs. And the more we see that, remember, when we saw the shift to globalization and the hollowing out of manufacturing, when we look back, we say there wasn't enough planning, stillill, we're dealing with the problems associated with that. So if we can see more cities States work with businesses and actually retrain people, that should make us excited. Just Steh like' your thoughts on something we were talking about earlier in the show? And you kind of justinted at it a moment ago when you said, like the stock market's not the economy. We've play a lot of sound from President Trump today. ra about the stock market. Rving about the stock market, raving about everyone's four hundred one k. he did so in audence interday in North Dakota. And he's like, who here has a four hundred one K And there was at best a smattering of applause. So it is such an uneven economy right now, right? And that's going to be I think, a real potent political message for Democrats this f. North Dakota is a perfect example because he gave those remarks on the same day he chose not to sign the USMCA, the updated trade deal between the United States and Canada It is crucially important those trade relationships between our three countries are so important to people in the state of North Dakota. So the president can talk all day long about people's four hundred one K's. and listen, it's great to see the stock market up. But the stock market is a portion of the economy. What's the last thing he did? blocked a an affordable housing bill, right? The current median age for first time home buyers is either forty one or forty two years old, right? People cannot afford to get their lives started. They cannot afford the basic things they need to get to work, a place to live, a decent job. That's an issue for people. We're talking about a jobs number that's almost half of what we were expecting So when president's boasting about for hundred one K's, people who can't get a job don't have a fororm one K to feel good about. And as he blocked that housing bill, he told Speaker Johnson, peopleeople don't care about housing. except. Yeah, they do. He used more confence. By the way, real quick, you said that the median age for buying a house now is forty one years old. It used to be Exactly This is the end of the American dream in some ways. In many ways, remember, it was Alan Greenspan, I think in two thousand six, who said income inequality is going to be the biggest issue. We're watching it play out day in and day out. And it's startling that when the president is faced with it, he keeps saying things like affordability is an old fashioned term. Nobody cares He doesn't care because he's on his way to the moon when it comes to how successful and how wealthy he's become . Stephanie Ruulle, Thank you much. We're going to again in just few minutes att the top of the hour for money, power, and politics. We appreciate you joining us Up next here on Morning Joe, We'll dig into a new piece of the New York Times, titled If these celebrities are democracy's last hope We're in trouble The author of that piece, Molly Jong Fast will join us to explain And an exciting programming note to tell you about. Later today, our friend Nicole Wallace sits down with former special counsel Jack Smith. for his first live television interview They'll discuss the rule of law, the weaponization of the Department of Justice, and the Trump administration's purge of agents and lawyers across government organizations, including those who work for Smith Watch Deadline White House todayoday at four PM Eastern right here on MS. Now we'll all be tuning in for that. We'll be right back here with more morning Joe There's only one Ozempic Hello, I'm Ozempic. and I' other GLP ones kind of like him. Ozempic, you redid your jingle? A, thanks for noticing Katchy, right? No. Okay, then. Well, ask your doctor about which FDA approved uses of me, the Ozempic pen may be right for you. Call one eight three three ozempic or visit ozempic dot com to view the medication guide and learn more about ozempic Saglitide injection two milligrams. Only Novo Nordisk makes FDA approved ozempic. There's only one ozempic. I told you it was catchy Hi everybody. I'm Anthony Saramucci, former White House director of communications and Wall Street financier. And I'm Katy Kay. I've spent more than thirty years covering American politics asking questions from the journalist side of the table. While I was sitting at that table from the Trump campaign trail to eleven wild days in the White House, Ohh my God, never again. On our podcast, The Rest is Politics US, we bring you both sides of power inside the room and outside the spin. Listen to the Rest is Politics US, wherever you get your podcast Welcome back to Morning, Joe. Let's bring in C contributing opinion wrriter for the New York Times, our friend Mge on fast Molly, you were on the red carpet before the Tony Awards last month interviewing actors about, among many things, their political views And you write about one of your biggest takeaways in a new piece that's headlined, if these celebrities or democracies last hope We're in trouble. I'll read a bit from it now. During Donald Trump's first term, it was trendy and even lucrative to stand up to him so much so that Mr. Trump often felt less like a president than a punchline. But this time around, I've watched many of our most public voices face consequences that once seemed unthinkable. It's true that mister Trump has had a bad couple of weeks with his green reflecting pool and lost an war that he started But if you want a sure sign that he still has an iron grip on this country Look no further than the way some of the country's most prominent celebrities who once had no problem denouncing Mr. Trump have fallen silent. The celebrities I spoke to were clearly worried that the views they had advertised just a few years earlier could cause them to be on the wrong side of a Maga internet mob or a Brandon car callout or a prorofitable film franchises hiring decisions If they mention politics at all They would gingerly nibble around its edges When Mr. Trump's authoritarianism is all but underwritten by well liked public figures and all but ignored by others Its toxic tenets start to look like politics as usual If Americans begin to accept as normal that it's just too risky to speak up than something fundamental has changed in our country the And, it's an interesting argument because look, people roll their eyes when celebrities get too political. That's sort of know par for the course. But the silence is worrisome in a way that because Trump this time around, the second term, has managed to use the threat of litigation and the levers of government to enforce that silence Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the case for performative politics here. It turns out there's something worse than performative allieship and it's just silence, right? Because in that silence, this and by the way It's important to pull back for a minute and realize like Trump would consider Trump's first term not to be a success And one of the reasons why it wasn't a success for them was that there was so much public pushback to Trump and Trumpism. and there were so, you know, he was basically a punchline, you know, there were constantly You know, celebrities, late night hosts, talk show hosts, newscasters talking about how unusual what Trump was doing was. And now fast forward, Trump two point zero and there is just this side And the silence, you see how much celebrity is sort of used by this administration. Remember, Trump is a celebrity president And so they use this in a way to control the narrative. And so You do really see how important public pushback is and how important celebrity pushback it's an interesting balance, though, right? Because you know some of for instance, in recent years, there's been an effort to whether conscious or not to have less politics like W shows And I think some people welcome that. They want to take because Trump and our politics are so pervasive, I think some Americans are like, o, I just need break. But the argument that the other side of that coin though, is This is not the moment for a break. The things are too at risk. that the stakes are too high to sort of check out for a while You know, I bring it back to my grandfather, Howard Fast, who was blacklisted during the House of Un American actctivities, sent to jail because he was held in contempt of Congress. And which is something we rarely send people to for now. And the idea here was that what broke the spell of McCarthy, what broke the you know, this red scare was to some extent Walter Kronkite and Fred Friendley, and you know this is the story of Good night and goodood luck, the story of a trusted voice in American media saying, this is not okay. And so the question is, what are the trusted voices of today And you know, you and I have talked a lot about the sort of way in which MAGA has gotten involved in some of the legacy media brands that they have compromised their independence. a good example is CBS. So the question is what is a trusted messenger? And to some of these people, some of these celebrities usted mess The other question is, how do you game out the algorithm? So news breaks through. We talk about this all the time. And some of these celebrity voices, thegor know are able to rise to the top of the algorithm. And so the question is if you have someone a trusted voice and I'm thinking about like a Taylor Swift, for example talking about Delaney Hall and the protest in New Jersey, people are going to see it who might not otherwise see the Dellaney Hall protests in New Jersey We will be reading the new piece online now for the New York Times, our thanks to Molly Junkg Fast and those two pictures of Molly Junk Fast on the wall behind her Thank you so much, Molly. We appreciate it. Let's turn now to a new take on an old story just in time for the nation's two hundred fifteth anniversary, The sound of America brand new rock musical about the life of Benjamin Franklin is now playing in Philadelphia The show features more than twenty original songs and reimagines One of our most famous founding fathers as a struggling musician while telling his story of invention and revolution Joining us now the writer and lyricist of the South of America, ourur friend, Randall Lane. He's also, of course, the chief content officer for Forbes. Randall, I will say, as I described the musical there, you got an appreciative chuckle off from Walter Isaacs. I'm a big fan of doctor F He will take He will take adultery by the way. That's for sure.. So Walter will jump in here in a second, but Rand Billid Franklinon has always been one of our most rock ' and' roll founding fathers. So talk to us about the origins of this production Well the idea is that I mean, you have somebody who's the most American American, Benjamin Franklin, and you have the most American art form, which is rock and roll. And Benjamin Franklin's story, and Walter knows this better than anybody in America, is a rock and roll story. He was a fugitive. He was a teenage fugitive, which we have just three loaves of bread and guitar in his back. was you know, he had a rock and roll marriage. He was never legally married to his wife. He became world famous. He had fans. He had groupies, he toured the world, He had an illegitimate child And he brought a lot of people together. So in many ways He was America's first rock star. So we tell the story and you know you guys have been talking today about how we bring people together for the two hundred fiftieth. Ben Flankcolin' story is very unifying. Rock and' Roll is very unifying And I think we have some banger songs too. Well Randall, I love it. And one of the things about Franklin being America's first rock star is he knew it He invented himself. He was always in the process of rolling the carts of paper down Met street so that people would see he was industrious