The Death of Ian Huntley

Hello there, and welcome to Murder Most British. I'm Zach. Hey, welcome. I'm Rachel Ohoh, we got a doozy this week We do It was it was in the lineup L I've had it on the list because it's one of the biggest. case is you know, one of. We've brought this case forward because it's recently come back into Yeah, the only the only reason that we would even bring anything if something B happened. he's like, whoa, you know I think we've brought this case forward in our list of what we're going to be doing because now back in the news. so It's a way of us because everybody iss talking about this case kind of at the moment It just helps to Um you know, bring it to the forefront for people that haven't actually No the ins and outs of the whole Yeah the whole story. Yeah. so We kind of wanted to bring it forward and go over it and also, unfortunately, with the news, also brings up is focusing more on you know, the perpetrator then then the victims. Yeah. and we do like to obviously have victims at the forefront of any of the cases that we talk about Before we step into this case brief note from the archive So since we launched our podcast, there's been more that we wanted to share And on march thirty first, we will be opening our Patreon. Yay L forward to it. Yeah. Inside that we'll be add free episodes, early access and exclusive cases that we won't release on our main feed. If you'd like to go deeper with us with more cases and that We'll see you there on march thirty first. Yep, Join us on Patreon If you enjoy the stories that we tell here Please follow the show and leave us a five star rating that really, really will help us. It genuinely helps others to discover what we do You'll find all our socials, discord and more in the link tree in the description below Your support keeps the archive open and ensures no story is ever forgotten This episode includes discussions of child murder, violence, and allegations involving underage girls Some listeners may find this material distressing Listener, disiscretion is advised Let's get to the story. Let's begin. So on a warm Sunday evening in August of two thousand two The Cambridgeshire town of Sowham was settling into the quiet rhythm of a summer evening Families were finishing barbecues, children were still outside stretching the last hours of the school holidays inside a house on a quiet residential street Two ten year old girls stood beneath a clock while their friend's mother lifted a camera The photograph that she took would soon be seen across the whole country A short time later, the girls slipped out of the house They were only expected to be gone a few minutes As the evening turned into night, something was wrong. The girls weren't upstairs They weren't in the street and in the small town of Sugham No one could find them In the summer of two thousand two, the small Cambrideshire town of Soham was the kind of place where people felt safe leaving the doors unlocked, and children played freely in the streets with the population just over ten thousand people ish It was a quiet English market town where local schools, churches and small shops formed the center of daily life For many families raising children here, Some felt far removed from the darker stories. that so often dominated the national news Well, among the children growing up in the town were ten year old best friends, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman The girls attended St. Andrew's Church of England Primary School and were rarely seen apart. Teachers described them as lively and close, sharing classes, hobbies and the same group of friends Like many children their age, they spent much of their free time together outside of school They visited each other's homes, rode bikes, played football and spent time around the neighborhood during the long summer holidays So on Sunday, the fourth of august, two thousand two. Jessica spent the afternoon at Holly's house in Red House Gardens Earlier that day, friends of the Wells' family had gathered for a summer barbecue and The girls spent much of the afternoon moving between the house and the garden while the adults talked and prepared the food, At different points, they went upstairs to use the computer Listen to music in Holly's room. then wandered back outside to play as the relaxed gathering continued Yeah. so but this case so I was I remember because Being in Cambridghire Obviously it was on our local news like straight away because I actually at the time was living in South Cambridgesire. so Um, you know, it was really kind of straight straight in the in the news media and I mean, at that time, I was only eighteen. u It's very true, you know, so I'm like where I was living It felt so safe for us kids to, you know, I did twelve years old, you know? Oh ye exactly the same doing what they were doing. I remember them summer days shock off to the shop on your own with your group of friends or just, you know, you and your best friend buying sweets and And just breaking around your little town or your little village, you know, everywhere felt safer that sort of early late nineteen nineties two thousands, it felt really safe for children. Yeah But yeah, so on this evening five o four PM Holly'sother Nicola took a photograph of the two girls standing beneath a clock inside the house Both were smiling broadly and wearing matching red Manchester United shirts that belonged to Holly's older brother. I made for doing that I to steal my brothererss like shirts all the time Um, The image captured an ordinary moment on a summer afternoon two friends enjoying the final weeks of the school holidays. And within days, that same photograph would appear on television screens and newspaper front pages across the country. Later that evening at around five thirty PM The girls sat down to eat with Holly's parents and the visiting guests. Shortly after six fifteen PM, they left the table Holly's parents believed the girls had gone upstairs to Holly's bedroom Butust a short time later, the two friends quietly slipped out of the house without telling anyone and headed out intending to buy sweites Well they only had a small amount of money and expected to be gone for a few minutes The plan was simple. to walk to the nearby Ross Piers sports Center where children often stopped to buy sweitets from the vending machine. The Sort center was only about five minutes from the house J just a short and familiar walk through the streets that the girls knew well As they moved through Sowham that evening, they passed landmarks that were part of everyday life in the town the secondary school the warar Memorial, the sports center, and the shops along the High Street At one point, a passerby reportedly pointed them out to his wife and joked, quote w little beckhams Obviously a reference to the Manchester United shirts that they were wearing Yeah, did it I think because they had number ten on the background Beckh it. David Beckham used to Yeah, because he was huge then. Yeah, it was a massive influence back then. Very Veria is peak. in football, but They obviously were two little keen Manchester United supporters, bless them Well at the same time, another figure lived quietly within the community Ian Huntley ' been working since november two thousand one as the caretaker at Sowham Village College. The town's secondary school By the summer of two thousand two, he was living nearby with his girlfriend, Maxine Carr in a house on college close But by Easter two thousand two Maxine Car was working at St. Andrew's Church of England Primary School in Sowham Ghost had attended. fromom the summer term of that year. She was the temporary classroom assistant to the Year five class, attended by Holly and Jessica The girls therefore came into contact with Huntley through knowing Carl rather than as a result of his employment at the Soham Village College Before moving to Cambrideshire, Huntley had spent most of his life in the Homberside area of Northern England. Between nineteen ninety five and nineteen ninety nine Huntley came to the attention of Humbverside Police and Social Services in relation to eleven separate incidents Nine of which involved allegations of sexual offenses These included four allegations of unlawful sexual intercourse with girls under sixteen. four allegations of rape and one allegation of indecent assault on an eleven year old girl. He was neither convicted nor cautioned in relation. any of those incidents L In the years that followed, Huntley moved between jobs and locations across the Hberside area By late two thousand one, he had secured the caretaker position at Syon Village College. A role that placed him on the school grounds each day and made him a familiar figure in the town By the summer of two thousand two Both had become familiar figures in Sowam Car worked at the local primary school where whileile Huntley had carried out maintenance duties around the secondary school campus Residents saw them in passing shops along the streets or around school grounds just kind of integrated into the into the town. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I just couldn't believe that he didn't get any sort of conviction or anything for all them that's crazy. Yeahes not one of them got a lot of accusations or, you know, against him on the them cases And if I remember in rightly in this case, after when it all went to caught about Holly and Jessica They They weren't allowed to know about these prior accusations because it didn't really So obviously it's one of those things with the courore where it didn't really have any bearing on what case. Yeah, you know, but Knowing that history, you're just like, what the fuck Yeah So obviously there was a media, you know, the media weren't allowed to report that either. the time until the case was done So Obviously, we'll go into a little bit more about that Yeah when we come to telling you about the court side of things. Okay, so at six twenty eight PM CCTV cameras at the Ross Piers Sports Center captured Holly and Jessica Crossing the forect together, still wearing the shirts Around that time, a receptionist at the center Claire and Norton buzzed the two girls into the building Although she later said she could not be certain They were Holly and Jessica Inside, another witness, Karen Greenwood, noticed two girls in red shirts before leaving the gym Well, as Greenwood was driving away a few minutes later at around six thirty two six thirty three PM. She saw the same two girls walking along collollege rooad near College Close quuiet residential street lined with ordinary houses They were only a short distance from Ian Huntley's home After that moment, no one saw Holly or Jessica alive again at some point after passing along College Road. The two girls had entered Huntley's house on College Close Exactly how or why they went inside has never been fully established What is known though, is that once they entered the house girls had died there within a short period of time Later that evening, Huntley moved the girls' bodies from the house and drove them away from Sowham. The journey took him across the flat farmland of the Cambrideshire Fens and into neighboring Suffolk. neear a remote farm track known as Common Drove cllose to RAF Lakeenheath place the bodies in a roadside ditch surrounded by long grass and vegetation At the site, he attempted to set the bodies on fire using petrol before leaving them concealed. in the ditch. After returning to Sham Huntley began trying to erase what had happened. The girls's clothing was cut up and burnt The child remains were hidden in refuge containers at Sowham Village College Inside the house on College Close, traces of the evening were also cleaned away From the street, nothing looked unusual College close appeared exactly as it always did and anyone passing that evening would have had no notice to even stop or look twice. By the end of that Sunday night, famamilies of Holly and Jessica or searching for them No one yet understood What had already happened When Holly and Jessica slipped out of Holly's house that evening No one realized that they had gone Holly's parents believed the girls were upstairs, and for a time, the two friends were simply assumed to be somewhere inside the house Between eight and eight thirty PM As the guests from the Wells familyily Barbecue prepared to leave It became clear that the girls were nowhere in the house or garden Nicola Wells began searching the property and calling for them But there was no answer This is really crazy to me because it makes me think of my own childhood. because I was in at the fifth grade. believe we were living in Tennessee at the time And I had just kind of toddled off Tward the shops I think it was either a Kmart or a Walmart or something But you remember back when they used to have those little gaming things where you could go you could just play it or whatever Oh yeah, I got zoned out. littleittle handheld gam. No, it was like they'd have a TV and that you could play like Sega or whatever. Yeah And I just got zoned out. whver I think it was like a new, I think it was like the new street fighter or something I just got zoned out for hours, just playing play passes,ally when you're engrossed in and stuff like that. I'm sitting there just you know, having a great time for hours and hours I go back home Oh boy. p freaking. They were absolutely like mom was She was bought like crazy, you know, and they were Obviously upset at me. Yeah, you know, course You know, but they were just glad that I was fine. like they were saying and we were looking in dumpsters in a digal worry The worry for any parent who I mean, obviously It's just crazy how similar they were in year five. and that's when I, you know, and I was like, man This is It really gets you I think cases like this it's really Like when with my daughter growing up, I've always then tried to makeake sure she tells me where she is. If she changes where what direction or whose friends she's going Or like when she was call when she was callling out the window. Oh my go I mean kids can be such worrying little You know, my daughter, Jesus, five years old She asked to go and play with her friend at her house and I had said no You know, it was going to get dark soon. it was sort of late you know, winter time and it was four o'clock and I knew by five it was going to be pitch black So I've I've said no. I think on to the looew, quick two minutes up there, come down and she's not in the house. you know, she's not down in in the lounge and I did phone the police because I was terrified I'm thinking She's not in the house Wh where the hell is, you know, I've gone out looking for her around the street couldouldn't find her Atle, she weren't at a friend's house that she wanted to go to Um Yeah, so I mean, I can slightly imagine the how much worry. Oh yeah, just that and just good J that little bit Yeah that we experienceced like was something I put my parents through and something with state, you know, our Yeah like how she ran off and you're just absolutely terrified Yeah because your head goes to autMag like, you know, it's getting dark, obviously the same it was evening. So it would have been dark come, you know eight nine o'clock start getting dark. And you do panic, you think, oh my go, where in the hell could they be? Yeah, You know. So Yeah. So anyways, the at eight forty PM Uh, she she contacted Jessica's mother Saron Chapm When Sharon rang Jessica's mobile phone, it was switched off. As the time passed with no sign of the girls Concern quickly began to grow Friends and relatives started checking nearby streets and gardens calling the girls's names and knocking on neighbors' doors att nine fifty five PM The disappearance was formally reported to the police And then officers arrived in Some roughly thirty five minutes later to begin searching or through the night officers from Cambridge Constabulary joined relatives and local residents searching the streets, parks and footpaths around the town Torches swept across gardens, hedgeerows, and alleyways as people called the girls's names into the darkness Volunteers knocked on doors and checked places where children might have wandered or hidden At first, many people believed that Holly and Jessica would soon be found somewhere nearby as the hours passed without any sign of them The situation began to look increasingly serious During those early hours of the surge Ian Huntley also appeared among the people looking for the missing girls at around ten thirty five PM Four local villagers searching near college closees encountered him. Huntley told them he had not seen Holly or Jessica that evening. Around one AM, a police officer saw him again near his home where he offered to help with the search Over the following hours, however His accounts of the events began to shift By around one thirty AM, Huntley was telling firefighters that he had seen the girls about six thirty PM earlier that evening Later, he began offering different times At around two thirty AM, he told a friend of the Chapmans that he had seen the girls at about five fifty PM I later told a police officer it had been closer to five forty five PM. The officer also noted that Huntley's hair appeared wet as though he had recently took a shower And those times make because they can really pin this was the thing they could really pinpoint a lot of the timings. And if he's saying that time, it's like, well, no, they were actually with us having dinner. Yeah. What do you mean? It's like he just couldn't quite He was in a rush to have a cover story or something try he clearly was trying to well, he clearly just didn't know what time you know, he's trying to kind of with something Yeah without thinking Because also it could have been, he thought They're going to find out that they came by here. There's going to be a witness or CCTV of some kind that puts them close. Possibly he's thinking, yeah, He's like, o shit and trying to come up with something and just thanfully blundered like an in some way, just just solely trying to distance himself from, you know seeing them specific time that yeah Tings are crucial. missing. Yeah Well, the detectives would later note how quickly that timeline had changed of his how he said things that went down Another detail soon entered the picture, though Maxine Carr who had traveled to Grimsby that weekend to visit family later said she has spoken to Huntley by phone at six twenty four PM During that call She said that he mentioned that some girls asked about her. In the days that followed Car told police that she had been at home with Huntley onn the ninth the girls disappeared a statement that appeared to provide him with an alibi. Well, by the morning of the fifth of August, the disappearance had become a major miss in person investigation Pleice began door to door inquiries throughout Sham asking residents whether they had seen the girls the previous evening Witnesses confirmed sightings of Holly and Jessica walking through the town that evening Detectives carefully mapped each sight in in an effort to trace the girls' movements and determine where they had last been seen. Well, as the search widened, the scale of the operation grew rapidly Helicopters scanned the surrounding countryside, while police dogs searched hederows and drainage ditches Divers examined nearby rivers, ponds, and waterways Hundreds of volunteers joined organized searches of farmland woodland and open fields surrounding Sham Personnel from the nearby United States Air Force Bases also assisted with the effort Within days, the search had become one of the largest missing person operations ever mounted in Britain That's nice. The personnel from the Oh Air Force Base. so that would be Lacen Heath, RAF Lacen Heath and RAF Milnenall. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I was I was a lake He was based at Lakeoln. if not that in two thousand two when this case happened Yeah, but I would have been out there. You was spaced there, wasn't you? I would have been out there. That's It's a people that you're just like, hey, we need to help. especially with children missing, I think everybody will come together. Oh you know, strangers and whoever You just get out there and try and help and do your best to find these children While the disappearance quickly drew national attention, photographs of Holly and Jessica appeared on television broadcasts and newspaper front pages across the country The photograph taken earlier that evening by Holly's mother quickly became one of the most widely recognized images in Britain Appeals for information were broadcast repeatedly as police urged anyone who might have seen the girls to come forward As the stories spread Public appeals intensified News International announced a reward of one hundred fifty thousand pounds for information that might help locate the girls Soon afterwards, the Express newspapers offered a one million pound reward for information leading to their safe return or the arrest and conviction of whoever was responsible Police hotlines were soon flooded with calls from members of the public reporting possible sightings or passing on information investigators might be able to use Well, among those appealing directly to the girls was England footballer David Beckham then playing for Manchester United. In a televised message, he said Please go home You are not in any kind of trouble parents love you deeply and want you back Behind the scenes, detectives were working through an enormous volume of information Many reports turned out to be mistaken sightings or unrelated leads But officers checked each one carefully at the height of the operation Around four hundred police officers were assigned to the case making it one of the largest investigations of its kind in modern British policing. Wow That's that is a lot of people. You know, the all the plac and the people looking. Children, they don't just disappear You know, they've got to be somewhere. Yeah U and so yeah, all hands on on the case, you know going through and it's time consuming. to go through all this different information coming in Yeah. and it's going to be a huge volume of off course and you want to try to do it and get through it as quick as possible to find the legitimate um site ins and you know, witness accounts of of sightings and stuff. So crazy. Yeah. Well, as part of the inquiry, detectives also examined individuals who might pose a risk to children Police examined the sex offenders's register and carried out checks unknown offenders in the region while investigators conducted background checks on people connected to the area, At the same time, investigators continued reconstructing the girl's movements through witness statements and CCTV images Gradually, a clearer picture began to emerge of the route Holly and Jessica had taken through Sowham before they disappeared Well, as detectives continued examining the evidence Attention increasingly turned to Ian Huntley Investigators had already noted the changing timeline that he had given during the first night of the search And they began looking more closely at his movements and statements During the search, Huntley also appeared in television interviews about the missing girls He later said he had initially been reluctant to speak to the media and had agreed only on the understanding that the footage would be broadcast locally rather than nationally In the days that followed, detectives compared Huntley's statements with witness accounts Other emerging evidence as the investigation continued to develop That's weird Oh, just hey, just don't don't broadcast this nationally. It only needs to be local. Yeah It's because people know you up north and they'll see who you are And you know, obviously Now with hindsight, you know, back then when you're watching him been interviewed on the news you wouldn't have known any of that. And this is the reason why, you know, he's asking you can think well, actually in hindsight, yes, he's clearly not wanting people from you know, humbersides saying, Well, hang on a minute. Look at this guy because he, you know, you're interviewing this guy. But he's been accused of this, this, this many, you know, in this area. I'm going to put an eye on thatll say he yeah. So trying to definitely still try to deter them from looking at him It's definitely a red flag. Yeah, definitely. Jesus Well, meanwhile, investigators were examining the movements of Huntley's girlfriend, Maxine Carr. Car had additionally told the police that she had been home with Huntley But the detective soon discovered that she had actually traveled to Grimsby that weekend to visit family overver one hundred miles away. That revelation meant Huntley no longer had the alibi The head appeared to account for his movements on the night The girls vanished Yeah. I mean, that's just crazy. I mean, How can you I couldn't G give someone an alibi like that? No. and also because how in the hell you would not get found out that you're not actually even in the town, the same town as this person suspect let alone in the same house as them for the weekend, you're actually hundred miles away. Yeah. I know the police are not going find this out. Of course they are. I mean, the cops saying's stupid Th about, Ohh, well let let's fact check this real quick and There you go. From the sounds of it, Ian Huntley and Maxseane Cod don't seem to Um in my opinion have had the ull inklin that they would ever be looked at as suspects Well, I don't think that she believed that he would do something like that either. I was like, yeah just stupidly. Yeah. Stupidly. Very naive. Yeah During searches at Some Village College, Officers made a significant discovery. Inside a refuse container in a building known as the Hangar Investigators found charred fragments of clothing. Forensic examination later had confirmed that the burned material matched the Manchester United shirts that Holly and Jessica been wearing when they left home So in the early hours of the seventeenth of august two thousand two, Detectives finally arrested both Huntley and Carr at their home Yeah, he disposed of evidence. where he works What a okay. But then that says to me that They clearly didn't think that they were susangs or being seen as suspects, you know, Well he he he just did, you know whatever was convenient and It was more convenient because he knew the place, he knew the college, he knew where to go and where to dispose of stuff, whatever And it was more convenient for him to do that. posossibly But it was just like, are you kidding me You're disposing of it where you work. so now they've connected you to that And then you've said that you've seen him Uh You have no alibi. It's just all the points start to connect. thing, you know, with the alibi situation, you know, once that became that he then had no alibi. you become a suspect Well, okay, so officers searched Huntley's house on college clothes Investigators noticed that the rooms appeared to have been recently and carefully cleaned this forensic examination later revealed small traces of blood spatter inside the house. Investigators also examined Huntley's Red Ford fiesta Forensic specialists analyzed fibers, soil, pollen, and other traces recovered from the vehicle along with material collected from the house and surrounding areas Traces of chalk and other materials found on the car consistent with the remote track near the RAF Lakeen Heath space where the bodies had been discovered Well later that same day, a gamekeeper named Kef Prior was searching land near RAF Lacenheath in neighbouring Suffolk Beside a remote farm track known as Commondrove, he discovered the two bodies concealed in a roadside ditch. Police quickly sealed off the area while the forensic teams examined the scene The location lay roughly ten miles from Sowham surrounded by open farmland The discovery brought the search for Holly and Jessica to a tragic end Their remains were later formally identified through DNA testing News of the discovery spread quickly across Sham and grief replaced the hope that had carried the search for nearly two weeks I think it will be sy stating not just across Sham, across the whole country There was shock and grief and it was yeah, because it was so widely It was every day. Everybody was was following this case and hoping that the girls would be found alive safe and well And I think this just devastated the whole country. Yeah Well, then it's gone to trial So the The trial of Aan Hntley and Maxine Carr began at the Old Bailey in London on the third of november two thousand three More than a year after the deaths of Holly and Jessica By then, the Soam case had become one of the most closely followed criminal investigation in modern Britain Huntley faced two counts of murder O his former girlfriend was charged with conspiring to pervert the course of justice after providing Huntley with his false alibi during the early stages of the investigation They did look into charging her with assisting an offender two charges dropped, but u Yeah, opening the case, prosecutors told the jury that the evidence would show Holly and Jessica had entered Huntley's house on collollege Close during their walk through Sowham on the evening of the fourth of august two thousand two They argued that the girls had died there while Huntley was alone with them Because of the condition of the remains, pathologists could not determine a precise medical cause of death The court heard that the most likely explanation wasas aphyxia Over the following weeks, jurors heard extensive forensic evidence linking Huntley H home and his car to the deaths of the two girls Scientists described the recovery of charred fragments of the clothing from that refuse container in Sol Village College. whereerere Huntley was working as the caretaker Forensic testing also identified one hundred and fifty four transfers of hair and fiber evidence between items connected to Huntley and belongings associated with Holly and Jessica During the trial, the jury was also taken to so imp and to the remote ditch near the RAF Lakenheave where the girls' bodies had been discovered The visits allowed the jurors to see the locations central to the case the streets where the girls had last been seen walking house on college close. and the isolated farm track at Common Drove Prosecutors also drew attention to Huntley's behavior in the days after the girls disappeared Jurors were shown the television interviews he had given while the search was underway in which he described, seeing the girls and appeared to present himself as a concerned witness The prosecution argued that Huntley had deliberately placed himself in front of cameras in order to appear helpful concealing his own involvement. which is absolutely wild and cruel. A A lot of criminals tend to do that. insert themselves into the And I think I think the mindset in my opinion, just in my opinion, I mean, I'm not professional, but The mindset of doing that I I believe that It's a way of them reliving it. Either that mostly T to Know what's happening. Yeah, but also try to use that in order to mold the narrative. Yeah and make out that You know, they definitely they're so worried as well, you know posossibly never be a suspect, you know? So it's a case of you know, trying to hide behind being in the forefront of a case. Yeah. You know attention during the trial also turned to Maxine Karr. Prosecutors told the jury that during the early stages of the investigation, she had falsely claimed been at home with Huntley on the night that the girls disappeared. providing him with an alibi at a crucial moment in the inquiry Car's defense team maintained that she had believed Huntley was innocent and had repeated his account because she trusted him Aful She was sat in the in the dock with him side by, you know, pretty much side by side. Yeah. She did not once look at him from the court transcripts that I had read He tried to make eye contact with her, but she she was adamous. She didn't want to look him. Hell no By the later stages of the trial, Huntley no longer disputed several key facts. He accepted that the girls had entered his house They had died while he was alone with them. and that he had later moved the bodies and tried to destroy the evidence by burning their clothing The central question for the jury became whether Huntley's explanation that the deaths had been accidental believed when Huntley entered the witness box, he gave his version of events He claimed that Holly and Jessica had come into the house because Holly had a nosebleed According to his account, Polly Later slipped and fell into a partially filled bath and died. He said Jessica then began screaming and that when he tried to silence and restrain her accidentally caused her death as well Huntley insisted he never intended to harm Eva Girl. Hm The Court's transcript said that he admitted to with Jessica that he because she was screaming he put his arms out and covered her mouth Yeah And that's how she But I'm thinking Dude, just tell the truth Yeah. Yeah just just come out with it. there's at some point you should be able to say You know what It's over. Yeah. they've they've got they've got it all And I just tell the truth, but he just refuseed to tell the truth So the prosecutor, Richard Latham QC strongly challenged that account In his closing speech, he told jurors that Huntley's explanation did not match the forensic evidence or the sequence of lies he had told the police and the public. Latham argued that whatever had begun inside that house likely been sexually motivated and had gone wrong At that point he said Both girls had to die in order to prevent them revealing what had happened Yeah, the forensic evidence not matching. I mean Um, he's saying that there was u that one had a nosebleleed, will The evidence didn't show that there was any blood found on her t. T shirt So there's no blood traces to Bright his nosebleed theory But Huntley's defense team urged the jury to reject the charge of murder and instead return verdicts of manslaught They argued that there was no proof that Huntley had intended to kill or causeed really serious injury Car also gave evidence in her own defence tellelling the court that she had not known Huntley had murdered the girls Her lawyers said that she had lied to police out of misplaced loyalty and fear rather than knowledge of a crime After several weeks of testimony, legal arguments, and closing speeches The case was handed to the jury. Deliberations lasted around seventeen hours On the seventeenth of december two thousand three, the jury returned eleven to one majority verdicts. Ian Huntley was found guilty of the murders of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman Maxine Carr was found guilty of conspiring to pervert the course of justice Cared of two counts of assisting an offender Yes, foollowing the verdicts, the court moved to sentencing Mr. Justice Moses addressed Huntley directly, telling him You murdered them both You were the only person who knows how you murdered them In your lies and manipulation, up to this very day, you have increased the suffering you have caused the two families Hudley was sentenced to two life sentences for the murders. with a minimum term of forty years before he could be considered for release. acine Kar was sentenced to three and a half years in prison And he still never told the truth? Nope, E after that Well in in the yeah, scumbag In the days following the verdicts at the Old Bailey, attention turned back to the families of Holly and Jessica For more than a year, they had endured an ordeal that unfolded in public view from the desperate searches through the fields around Sham to the long investigation and trial in London. When the court process ended headlines began to fade. But for the families, the loss remained unchanged The challenge ahead was learning how to continue their lives without two girls who had once filled their homes with laughter and love In Surham, the impact of the case was impossible to ignore The town that had come together to search fields, parks and farmland for the missing girls now had to live with the knowledge that the tragedy had unfolded within its own streets For many people in Sowham, the murders of Holly Wellells and Jessica Chapman became a defining moment in the town's history permanently changing the way the community saw itself. Even before the trial had begun countountry had paused to remember the two girls On the thirtieth of august two thousand two, a memorial service was held at Elly Cathedral. Beautiful cathedral,aul. Yeah's so beautiful. Well, it was attended by around two thousand mourners, including family members, teachers, classmates, and residents from across the region Messages of sympathy arrived from throughout Britain and football clubs across the country observed moments of silence before matches. The service became a powerful moment of collective mourning Reflecting the dep of grief felt Far beyond the town where the girls had lived In the months that followed, one particular place in Syham became a grim reminder of the tragedy The house on College Close, where the killings had taken place. began to attract visitors drawn by curiosity. For local residents, it became an unwanted symbol of what had happened April of two thousand four, local authorities arranged for the building to be demolished The site was later cleared and redeveloped removing a physical landmark that had become closely associated with the case Yeah, you have the weird like the weird stuff, people weird curiosity. Yeah I dont want to see the house. I get it to an extent, you know, but No It's just not something that, you know I mean, the family' still living in Sorm and You know, they're not going to want to see masses of people standing outside this monster's house But it's a curiosity that affects like look at all the the Jack the Ripper stuff. Yeah. they have tours to you can go to all the different sites. To be fair, I'm still shocked that he even had pen powers for God's sake, you know, who in the hell in their right mind wants to write to these people. Well we just we just watched something about that. where the women that You know, they write letterss a name for it Mters. Yeah. I don't remember what it's called, but I I don't getred I don't get it Why Why do you want to talk to these monsters Well, there's that separation as well because you know they're never going to get out and you can talk to them or whatever They're never going to be able to get out to do anything really I don't know. It's a weird thing I n Creey Yeah, I wouldn't want to talk to somebody like that Well, beyond Sem The case also raised serious questions about how Ian Hunley had been able to secure employment at a school. despite earlier allegations involving young girls during his time in the Humberside area Although those allegations had not resulted in criminal convictions, it later emerged that Huntley had come to the attention of police several times before the murders Crucially, information about those incidences not been properly recorded or shared between police forces Maning The details did not appear during background checks carried out He began even working at the Sone Village College. Yeah. so many you know, back then, I think now like It's such a good idea to have likeike one central police force database that all police forces can access So, you know, it can kind of try to prevent people like this We've You know terrible accusations against the oK He wasn't found guilty of them accusations But yet still it should appear on a file, you know, that things have something. People have reported allegations about this person so that You know, when they do a DBS check can safeguard better because you can think, well actually person, Yes, although he hasn't been confed found guilty and convicted of these crimes. if you've got nine allegations. If you've got nine allegations of the serious nature he wouldn't be the right person to be working within the school so then you wouldn't offer them a job. In response to the concerns The government established a public inquiry chair by Sir Michael Bertchard Bichard, I think Sorry I think it' sorry's Sard. Sorry, Michael. Well, the Bertchard inquiry examined how police forces recorded and shared intelligence about individuals who might pose a risk to children Investigators reviewed thousands of police documents and records in an effort to understand how information relating to Huntleys earlier allegations had failed to surface during the veting process for his employment When the inquiry reported in two thousand four, it concluded that serious systemic failures had occurred Intelligence records had not been properly maintained and communicated between police forces It's just been inadequate Full stop The report issued thirty one recommendations aimed at improving how police intelligence and safeguarding information were recorded and shared Well, those recommendations led to significant reforms in safeguarding systems across the country Procedures for criminal record checks were strengthened and new mechanisms were introduced to improve the sharing of intelligence between police forces and organisations responsible for protecting children Over time, these changes contributed to the development of the safeguarding framework used today including systems that eventually evolved into the disclosure and barring service Responsible for veting people working with children and vulnerable individuals. Yeahep, the old DBS checked. This this is where when I was researching and writing this up It made me think of in America the ambriller system. So whenever a kid or whenever k goes missing, the ammbriller goes up and it just It goes out nationwide You know, look at, look for this kid Don't you get alerts on your phones Yeah That's a good idea. and we should have that over here. Yeah I do believe it has crossed, you know national lines that to where other countries have adopted a similar But the UK is always pretty slow on catching up with the rest of the world, to beair. Just in case people don't know like what the history of it in ninety six a nine year old girl named Amber Hagerman in Arlington, Texas Um she went missing So it it reallyally made people think about' what's going on and she was unfortunately murdered. Yeah But it changed how people do things and the ammber alert system has saved Hundreds upon hundreds of kids since then I think yeah, because obviously I think we all understand that time is of the essence and you know, the statistics of u something tragic are likely to have to happen. the window of opportunity to try to find the children alive or, you know But I just thought it was it was such a great legacy Yeah. I mean, yes, I would rather have them be alive and well and whatever, but The same with with Amber you know, with the DBS checks Yeah, the and enhancement and all these recommendations I can only imagine how many people have been saved. tons of that. those recommendations and all that coming up saying, hey, we need to fix this fucking system because of this So I just think of it like Their legacy is the saving of thousands of people probably predators. Yeah, most definitely The time is of the essence and as soon as you can get information out there that this person and nationwide, people can then be on the lookout and if they spot anything you know, see them in a in a car driving past and you just happen to catch a face or whatever you can pass that information on straight away and you know, the police are then Yeah. If get if you get that alert And you put it on as many screens as possible and people look at it o And they put in the it's in their mind. Yeah Fresh. Y Anyway, let's get back to it So for Maxine carar The aftermath of the trial brought consequences that would shape the rest of her life Although she had not been convicted of involvement in the murders themselves, She had been found guilty of conspiring to prefer the course of justice So the conviction generated intense public hostility Car served around twenty one months of her three and a half year sentence before being released from prison, two thousand four Because of the threats made against her after the case, the High Court granted Kar lifelong anonymity in two thousand five The ruling allowed her to live under a new identity and prevented the media from publishing information that might reveal her location cururrent name The order was highly unusual, reflecting the level of public anger surrounding the case and the concerns that her safety could be put at risk if her identity became known. Meanwhile Aan Hutley began serving his sentence within the prison system Because of the notoriety of his crimes, he was held in high security prisons and remained under strict supervision Prisoners convicted of crimes against children are often targets for violence And Huntley was attacked on several occasions during his years in custody Yes, let's go into some of these attacks. So in two thousand five, while held at HMP Wakefield In Huntley was scolded when convicted killer Mark Hobson threw boiling water over him. Five years later, in twenty ten, another prisoner. at the HMP Franklin Damian Fages sllashed Hunt his throat with a makeshift weapon Although he survived both assaults, the incidents reflected the hostility that prisoners convicted of such crimes. often face inside the prison system. Oh yeah. I mean, there's probably a lot of them, even though they're monsters themselves They there is a sort of code, you know, honor ammong Thieves type of thing where like this guy is despicable. And it was such a massive case Everybody knows about. From what I've reading and I'm following like documentaries and stuff on this case he seemed to have been quite a like enjoyed the fact that he was U notable Yeah, you know, notable. I see hisself as being famous And I think that he try to use that in prison as a you know, make himself feel bigger than he. Yeah as a tool to to get himself through Well, in twenty twenty five Hntley briefly returned to public attention after reports emerged that he had been seen in prison wearing a red football style shirt Bearing the number ten Disgusting. Yeah The details sparked widespread criticism with commentators suggesting it could be interpreted as a reference to the murders. Prison staff reportedly Remove the shirt following those complaints In my view, that's that abbsolutely abarerent Um, fromrom the some of the reports, I wouldll just say allegedly some of the guys, other prisoners, they were like, you're a sick bastard you know, because he was wearing that shirt. So. You can just shove just from that that people will be like This guy's gotta go He's definitely was not a liable character in prison Well more than two decades after the murders, the case returned briefly to the national headlines On the twenty sixth of february, twenty twenty six, while being held at HMP Franklin in County Durham Huntley was attacked during a workshop session by another inmate The suspected attacker was Anthony Russell, a triple murderer, serving a whole life sentence During the assault, Huntley was struck repeatedly with what reports described as a spiked metal pole Gracious and reportedly allegedly, He said a few things afterwards after the guards got him He's like I've done it killed him. Yeah, that's what it's quite to be he had been Heard saying. Yeah, crazy. crazy Hntley suffered severe head injuries and was rushed to hospital in critical condition Doctors placed him on life support as they attempted to stabilize his condition. But the damage to his brain proved catastrophic After several days in intensive care Medical staff concluded that recovery was unlikely He had like a five percent chance. Yeah, he was stuck in a coma. There was no sort of u There was barely a chance he was going to survive No activity. Yeah. So life support treatment was withdrawn on the sixth of March And I Huntley died the following day at the age of fifty two. His death brought an end to the life of the man responsible for one of the most shocking child murder cases in modern British history going to keep my opinions on myself on his death. Good. Well, I say the comments online and a lot of people were like, o, the guy that killed him should get time off his sentence. That dude is like no. He was awful. It was monster on monster crime And you don't No, come on can grip At the end of the day, the guy that killed him shouldn't be praised in the sense that you know, he's not a hero, he's not He's a triple murderer. Exactly. and at the end of the day, the guy allegedly alleged guy that supposedly killed him. there's a court case going on now U in regards to Yeahes, it is ongoing suspected killer alleged Ian Huley so we can't really go into too much of that at the moment Maybe we can revisit it a little bit. Yeah, we'll do an update later. Yeah Um, but allegedly you know, the guy has not attacked him because of what Ian Huntley had done u crime in his with his crime Um, It seems to have been for a different reason But it looked like At some point, somebody was going to get him. Sbody was being repeatedly attacked, you know, over the years. So you know, It kind of feels inevitable that something serious would eventually happens Yeah All I can say on the matter is that I'm not sad that he's dead N'mot gonna shed a tear. Nope Anyway, the legacy of the Sorow Murders is not defined by this monster who committed them. Instead, it lies in the memory of Holly and Jessica, two children whose friendship and lives were cut tragically short Deaths expose serious failures in the systems designed to protect children and the reforms that followed reshaped safeguarding practices across the United Kingdom. More than two decades later Those changes remain part of the structures intended to protect vulnerable people And in Sem The names of Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman continue to be remembered not only for the tragedy that took them But for the community that came together in the search for them and the determination It such a loss Never ever happen again Well that was the story of the murder of Polly and Jessica. Now we know that you're going to have like, you know, everybody hass got strong views on this case Obviously we'd like to hear what you thought of the case, you know wantan to know my view Is it' this is this it's the American in me. Okay Um, I with capital punishment. It's it's one of those things where you have to have without a doubt that's who, you know They knew. It was him and For me, like I rememered you posted about dying, you know? And I was like They should have strapped him to old Sparky And he could he could have he could have fucking rode the lightning straight to hell. I a post on Facebook on my Facebook, personal Facebook about you know, I was glad that he had passed. It's one of those things where you Yes, one less fucking monster like Well there's so much, you know, I mean, yeah, you know, is it really justice him spending his life in jail, you know, he's still being fed you know, took care of basically any health concerns. he's taken care of Yeah. you know, and in my view If if somebody gets life whole life order. It they should just be done. I mean, there's so much to it. Taxpayers are paying for their upkeep You know There's never ever going to be any justice for the victims Yeah in this situation. U So yeah, in my view, I definitely think that the topic and conversation needs to be had about possibly bringing back the death penalty in the UK especially for absolutely you know diabolical cases that you are you can't refute You know, the evidence is beyond a reasonable doubt. they done Yeah. So but I mean the UK, things are going a bit downhill. Its going a bit w. know they're wanting to bit weird minimize jury trials and things like that. So Yeahah, we've talked about that before where they wanted to That's a big no no. They should not do that It's a fundamental part of it of protection from the state because you have twelve random people chosen Then hear your case. Yeah And then they judge you, not a judge, not whatever state official It is a jury of your peers I think it's fundamental. the UK's human right to and have a right to a jury if you've been accused of a serious crime. I think it is a cornerstone of the justice system. It is a pivotal st You need it. Yeah. so fingers crossed going forward. Let us know your views on the jury service. I see how that. min possibly minimized or whatever.. Anything, let us know about your cases that you've enjoyed listening to over the past sort of cases that we've done. case and hege, if you if you know a case that you'd like to hear us cover Yeah, T us in the comments. Let us know. mayaybe a case that we've you know, not heard of or we've not got an oura list of up and com in cases that we're going to cover. So ye anywhere it's you, anywhere we do UK, Ireland, surrounding islands, genernal Islands, all that. Yeah. So anything. And just let us know if there's a case that you think that our other listeners would like to hear. That'd be great Well, if you like the work that we do here in the archive, please follow the show and leave the survive star rating. It really does help these stories reach further and keeps the archive growing Everything you need, Socials, discord all in the link links to the description below Go down there take a look and until next week, stay safe and stay curious. Bye bye