Aftermath and Community Response

Hello there Welcome to Murtder Most British. I'm Zach Hey, welcome. I'm Rachel Hope you got your cup of tea, coffee, whatever you drink, and you're ready for the next episode. Yeah, I sure am. this one's razy. You've been you've been he has literally so we do have a bit of an issue with this one. We've been waiting for the actual tariff sentencing, but like how many years? Yeah, so it's a case of It hasn't come in on time They were up in court for the sentencing, but like the tariff. sentencing. and it's not come in. so we have don't have that information for you at the moment, but we will update. We will do an update if you' like do an update. This is what's happened and whatnot. But But the case has been concluded. It is just a case of How many years this He has been sentenced but It's a case of how many years has it been sent? I've been holding off on this one for a like A month. Yeah Just wait in. wit wit in I was like, I want all the information. Yeah Okay, so Before we begin this episode, there's a small request from us If you enjoy listening to our true crime stories, please give us a like, follow and a five star rating And if you'd like to support the show directly and unlock ad free episodes, bonus episodes and more You can join our Patreon community Jump over to patreon. comot Fool slash Murder Most British podcast. We would really love to have you there. Also, all the links to our socials are in our link tree below just another from last week to this week, I still have my lisp so please bear with me. Yeah, she Well those are bonus episodes on p. Yes it was we didn't mention this is the first time I've mentioned. Yeah. We'd done bonus episodes. in this episode, I just want to apologize for my lisp. I had a little accident lost a toot the front and I have to wait for a new one. Now you're a bit lispy. so I'm very lispy on It happens. You'll be but you were fine before. no worries. But we'll get through it. We'll get through it Well, donon't be deterred by the lisp. Stay and listen to this case Well, this episode contains discussion of domestic murder, stalking coercive behavior and violence against women It also includes crime scene details and references to the death of an unborn child Some listeners may find this content distressing So listener discretion is strongly advised with this one. Yeahep, definitely. So now let's get to the story On the eighteenth of december, twenty twenty two Natalie McNally came home from watching the World Cup final with her family She was thirty two years old, fifteen weeks pregnant, and surrounded by the ordinary warmth of a December evening. The kind of night that should have ended with a locked door, a quiet house, and tomorrow waiting safely on the other side but elsewhere Another version of events was being prepared. screen would glow, a voice would fill the silence An audience would be given something to watch, something to believe somethingomet that looked like proof At first, it seemed unremarkable Only later would detectives begin to pull at the edges of that performance and realize that the most important thing about it was not what it showed what it was designed to hide Well Natalie McNally was thirty two years old from Luran in County Ama She was fifteen weeks pregnant The baby was a boy. family would later call him Baby Dean. Around him, ordinary hopes were already beginning to gover scans, names, family visits, Christmas plans and the first fragile shape of a future. I'd be exciting Super exciting time Natalie was a law graduate and worked in marketing for Translink. She had lived with type one diabetes from childhood Those who loved her never described a life made smaller by it. They describe someone warm and funny and kind, independent, and deeply rooted in her family She had her own home in silverwood green and had a dog named River And she had her routines and a closeness with her parents and brothers. It ran through everything Well, in August of twenty twenty two, Natalie met Stephen McCuller through the datea app Bumble His first message had an odd, self deprecating charm Hey Nat It's that robot weirdo from Bumble Online, he was known as Vote Sachon oo seven A YouTuber who reviewed Dr. Who Merchandised Robot toys and gaming content for an audience of tens of thousands. presented himself as awkward, enthusiastic, nerdy comfortable when he was performing Yeah, you fell in love with a nerd, didn't you? You're a nerd. Yeah. So very So different to me. My husband here He's so different from me, we' it so f onn a lot of things To be fair, but we work. We've worked for almost twenty years. so it's do attract to guys or's those nerdy guys a little chance, not this one that we're talking about in this case, but yeah Away from YouTube, McCullough worked night shifts as a part time assistant, audience editor for the Belfast Telegraph His job was technical mostly uploading articles written by journalists to the website He was not a reporter and not a part of the newsroom in the traditional sense To some people around him, he could be engaging at first, then withdrawn and difficult A man whose private world seemed to darken. During the long hours of the night beginning the relationship moved quickly Within weeks, there were hundreds of messages, dates, ordinary conversations and the small exchanges that make a new relationship feel real By late October, McCullch had met Natalie's family by early eight November They knew that she was pregnant So it did happen all quick. Yeah, that's really quick. To Natalie's family, this was joyful news. The baby was their first grandchild and already he was being imagined as part of the family Very quick, but I think It was he the baby was very wanted. Oh yeah. Definitely. Yeah But sometimes when you click, you click. to speak fash. I was with You know Five months And then I fell pregnant with my daughter. so You know, it happens. It's nothing bad about it, you know, it happens. it's just yeah Yeah Kala appeared to welcome the news too He spoke about becoming a father. referred to the unborn baby as quote Little squish read about parenting and diabetes and discussed moving in with Natalie He also made notes on his phone about creating space in his house for her and the baby Even there, strains showed through Natalie was apprehensive She wanted to stay close to her family And she saw his house as his notot hers haven't really hit that point where you feel that it's together. It's ours together. And I think that would be because it's just been a shorter amount of time And kindly yes comeome pregnant that They stille that apprehension of Russian You know, not wanting to actually full blown go, right? Okaykay, we're having a baby. We're moving into together we're going to do married You know, it's too much. It's like she kind of still wanted to take things slowly even though You know. Yeah. she was there was plenty of time, you know. Most definitely, most definitely. But also first child, she would want to be around her family for support. Oh yeah, you know. So again Mama help By December, Natalie was still working out what she wanted. In messages to O man, she said she liked doing her own thing and felt uneasy about constantly having to make plans with someone else She said she would not end things before Christmas because that felt mean And see how she felt after the new year In another exchange, she said that she was single but still pregnant. And although it was not a typical situation, she was delighted to have the baby by herself. So I think yeah, planing to back away a little bit. I think By all accounts she probably wasn't ready for a full blown relationship moving in living with somebody. I think she's, you know, because there's a baby She doesn't want to just be feel like she's forced into this full on relationship with this guy, so Yeah Well To others, McCulla could still seem excited Anne McCulla No relation despite their similar surname. had known him for years and considered him one of her closest friends She thought Natalie was good for him She believed the relationship looked positive He was learning to cook reading up on fatherhood and preparing for the baby But and also knew another sign of him After disagreements, he could turn really cold withithdrawing into silence There were older shadows too from before Natalie A former partner described a relationship where arguments could turn ugly Private images became a threat and where counseseling sessions after a still birth were later found recorded on his computer Those details belonged to another part of McCullor's life They sat uneasily beside the version he preferred to show humour, the online enthusiasm, the harmless eccentricity Yeah, I'm all eccentrics by mid December of twenty twenty two Christmas was close And McCullough was promoting a special online event He told friends he was planning a live stream for Sunday night enth of december, under the title The Violent Kight Christmas live gaming stream For his viewers, it sounded like exactly the kind of thing he might do Gaming, drinking, joking, and talking into the camera for hours Well that Sunday was also, well Cup final day, Natalie left McCullgh's home and went to her parents' house to watch Argentina play France Later, she returned to Silverwood Green while McCullor's online audience waited for him to appear on screen By early evening, everything appeared to be moving along orrdinary tracks Natalie was back in Luran. McCulla's audience was waiting for him online And in a few minutes, the screen would offer one version of where he was while the night itself began moving towards another Wow, then Five fifty seven PM arrives Color sends Natalie a message. He told her he was off to stream the night away. Natie wished him good luck And she said She might have a pek hit the live stream later At six PM, the broadcast began McCullor appeared on screen wearing a Santa's tat playing Grand Theft Auto, drinking Guinness and talking to his viewers He said technical problems meant that he could not interact with the live chat them to talk amongst themselves and said he would not be using his phone. as weird for a live stream, but okay Yeah, I mean, not using your phone. I get that because he's going to be playing. so he's not going G get on this phone answer number What? For a live stream if you're if there was a technical glitch computer You could then use your phone, just prop it up and you can see the chat But he's like, no, no, no, I'm just gonna, you, hang out playay game, drink and joke and whatever this. Yeah Weird At eight twenty four PM, Natalie logged into YouTube and watched part of the stream twenty seven minutes later. Someone entered her home There was no obvious sign of force entry, and nothing immediately suggested a random attack by someone unknown to her. Whoever came through that door either had access or was someone Natalie had reason not to fear What happened inside was close. prolonged and brutal. Natalie was attacked in her own home place where she should have been safest Natalie fought her attacker. The injuries to her hands were consistent with resistance. with trying to defend herself even with throwing a punch. She was not just a victim in a still image. She was a woman trying to survive the person who had come through her door Natalie suffered three stab wounds and compression injuries to her neck along with blunt force trauma to her head caused by at least Five heavy blows There was bruising around her neck. that suggested fingertips pathologist could not point to one injury alone the compression to her neck and the stab wounds could each have been fatal while the blows to her head may have also contributed whereere neighbourors heard fragments through the walls and the winter quiet The female scream, bangin, a sharp intake of breath sounds sudden and frightening enough to make people pause, but brief enough to vanish before anyone could understand what they had heard. Horror passed close to other lives and still did not reveal itself in time Yeah, you just hear a scuffle next door or something, th Don't tell our neighborss, but I actually put my ear to the wall. you're showing. And I'm like, what that one? Well they showing at I' a nosy now you very nosy. would just like to put me in and just make sure that they're They're right, you know, they're not slapping and whatnot. punching. You never know. this is the thing Be nosy neighborss known what your neighbours are doing Just in case you need to go and intervene, you know? Yeah O find polers or whatever. Who else' nosy neighbors out there? Let us know Most of Britain I reckon I think us Britain to are very nosy. Very, what's going on over there So at around nine thirty PM, the attacker left Silverwood Green The time inside Natalie's home had been short by the clock But long enough to take Natalie's life Long enough to take Baby Dean's future And long enough, to leave behind a house that had fallen silent The live stream went on until just after midnight Online, it looked like the natural close of a long gaming session Rambling, noisy, exhausting and familiar to McCulla's audience Away from the screen, River dog was still in the house Natalie was upstairs And no one outside Silverwood Green yet knew what had happened. At twelve oo eight AM, McCullum messaged Natalie. But then the next day. that Later that day, sorry At five o five PM, he sent another quote, Are you okay? twentyenty minutes later, he wrote quote Getting a little worried. Let me know you're safe As six hundred fifty five, he ordered a KFC Later that evening, he sent another message saying he was quote veryery concerned now. Yeah, so by the looks of it, he had um He'd not hide from her the whole day. Yeah until he was messaging her from five hundred five PM. Well, close to ten PM on the nineteenth of december, almost a full day after Natalie had been killed. McCulla went to her home Dill in the house. Natie was upstairs Cer called nine hundred and ninety nine, crying down the phone as he told the call handler that she was pregnant, she was cold and there was blood everywhere. too the people arriving at Natalie's house color looked absolutely devastated He was on his knees. He appeared to be Ting to help He looked like a partner discovering the worst possible thing Almost immediately, he phoned Anne McCulla from outside the house sccreaming that Natalie was gone drove towards Lurgan to support him On the way, McCulla phoned her again This time she said He sounded calmer almost zoned out. He told Anne not to hug him or touch him when she arrived because his clothes were evidence Blood on them, he said Before Anna even reached the house, she had been pulled into the aftermath Over everything, one terrible question pressed against the silence of Silverwood Green. Who had come through Natalie McNally's door And that'd be absolutely awful come into something like that. Yeah, most definitely. I mean, you don't know how to support somebody, especially something, you know So Ghostly and horrific Yeah. You Iice. What do you say? what do you do, you know, to support somebody that's seen something like that? justust just in the moment, you just do what you. Eespecially if' told you, don't hug him. It's like, well, you know, whatt go to things't for me to hg him They're not mean rained Yeah. Well, in any murder investigation, attention Pretty much a lot of the time turns to the people closest to the victim Not because closeness proves guilt or anything like that But because it can explain access Who knew the house? Who knew the routines and who had reason Be there McCullough was Natalie's partner He had found her body. He had called nine ny nine So police had to ask the obvious question. Where had he been when Natalie was attacked? Well, like at the end of the day, the police need a starting point and I think what they do is they go Um They'll start with the people closest and then work the way out. It's like a comfort zone in it sort of situation. you know what I mean? likeike or a bull's eye on a dartboard, you know, like you starter and then you bring yourself as far as you need to go. So ye First, his answer seemed unusually strong He had told people he was live streaming from his home in Lisbon that evening And the broadcast appeared to show exactly that color on screen for hours while Natie was attacked miles away in Logan But in those first days, the alibi did not look ordinary Unusual, even strange But it also looked visible It seemed to give police something most suspects cannot offer. a screenful approf. I mean, that's the new the new age comoming in, you know, live streaming and Yeah It's like, while I was here. lookook, ye. shows it right there. Pice still had to build the picture around Natalie's final hours. They appealed for witnesses and tried to establish her movements between Sunday afternoon and the emergency call on Monday night Natalie's youngest brother, Nil assign officers and appeal directly to the person responsible asking them to Do the decent thing and confess The public picture was still uncertain The family were grieving And the moment the liv stream CO it seem to answer those questions of where Stehven McCullough had been Well, his first account placed him away from the murder He said Natalie had left his house on Sunday afternoon and that he had spent the evening streaming online But when she did not answer his messages the next day, he said that he grew worried, especially because of her diabetes So he drove to Luran, went inside, found her and then called nine nine nine But when police questioned him, he gave little away After being arrested on suspicion of murder, his reply was, quote, murder Why In interview again and again, he answered No comment More than eighty times He gave no comment answers All of his movements. His phone, Natalie's phone relationship and why he had gone to the house Still, He was questioned Released And by Christmas Eve Natalie's family were told He was no longer a suspect So Christmas dayay arrives They opened a door to him. Noel and Bernie McNally were grieving their daughter and their unborn grandson And into that grief came the man they believed was grieving too Color stayed close after that. he visited the family, spoke to them ofin showed Natalie's mother an engagement ring He talked about renovations, schools, the baby and the life he said had been taken from him. But the investigation did not stop with the liv stream Detectives were still gathering the statements, checking movements, and working through the area around the Silverwood green They carried out hundreds of door to door inquiries, revisited the Silverwood Green and Kiln Road area three weeks later, and seized more than three thousand hours of CCTV from Lisbourne, Dunmuray, Lurkin, and the roads in between At first, the footage offered fragamments a figure near McCull's home Died Dark clothing. A hood covered face, gloves, light colored footwear, and On the bus A green shopping bag Gradually, the route emerged Vigure travelled from Lisbon towards Dunmuray. then by bus to Logan moving through Market Street, Williams Street and Low Road towards Natleie Street After the attack, the figure appeared again Leaving the area around Silverwood Green and moving back through Logan There were signs that the person had changed clothing Then came the return journey, not by the same route but by taxi back towards Lisbon. I knew it was only a matter of time before the CCTV came in You know, they're fucking everywhere. Yeah they pick somebody up And even be that even if People change the clothing You can still tell by The way that they walk and the size of a person, you know? I' had that before on here where it's a person's gate of how they walk and how their body moves, So at the end of the day, you know, you can't just sit and then think, o When I change clothes, nobody's gonna know that it was me. Yeah. You know, like come on now. You still walk the same. They're going to compe like they have it all up they go they go, Okay, you're the expert on the software the technology. Oh yeah to figure this shit out, you know, where they're literally walking with the same gaate. But they would also call in experts to say, hey, you know people and how they wal and all that ended. That's what they're going to find agreed At around eleven twelve PM, the taxi reached Woodland Gardens close to McCullah's home A figure was seen throwing two items over a hedge before going inside. The phone evidence Heightened up that timing as well During the hours, when McCullough said he had been streaming online, his phone had gone quiet then Mutes after the taxi returned to the area near his home his phone came back to life Funny that Yeah, funanny that the idea Well, it's just I mean, you get a taxi to near your house. Like Are you some kind of stupid or what? Yeah. You know This is what everybody literally thinks that this live streaming thing, you know, look at Delve into the data on internet stuff, you know, Yeah it can show this is not. You know Well, we'll get into all that, butad I've kept just thinking about this thing where where you have these nerdy people. that think they're smart because they watch smart stuff But they're actually fucking stupid. Yeah. And they just like to act like, well, I watch Star Trek and Star Wars and whatever other star fucking shit there is And they think they're smart because they can talk f and doctor who true crime stuff. I mean Jesus Christ, no amount of true crime. episodes is going to tell you the ins and outs of, you know, what police actually do to find people, you know, and This cut down to an hour long or whatever of just the points not the days, weeks and months or whatever of investig intensive investigations by multiple people You know, not just one guy or girl that's gonna And how they search. I mean, Jesus Christ, they will take any little piece of hair that they will see in a crime scene, you know, like It's just crazy. So, you know peopleeople think that they get away with CSI might like for a little while shows like the shows like CSI shit, it ruined people. it ruined them. Yeah. And then it ruined juries because people think Well, I need it needs to be looked just like CSI did. Definitely. force the investigators back to the live stream itself. This time, they were not just looking at what viewers had seen on YouTube They were looking at the machinery behind it computer activity, the saved files, the camera connection and the software used to send the video online The cybercrime evidence showed that the gaming session had not been lied It had been recorded days earlier fourteenth of December. and in to the early hours of the fifteenth which like I said You know, data The data is there, it gives Pute rin in the cyberspace, you know is going to give the time of when photographs have been taken. when things have gone live, you know, It's so funny to. I'm not smart. And people don't think I know this. And people don't think that hey, they have a cyber crrime vivision They have really smart fucking people that they've recruited that can figure this shit out And I am I am no way super smart like, you know I know this shit. Yeah there's the data inside the files and everything that will tell you When they were created, you can delete stuff. they can reg gather it you know, it's never deleted fully honestly. Well, a file had been saved just after midnight and on the night Natalie was attacked software called OBS was used to play that recording out over YouTube The absence mattered as much as what was there. During the hours, McCullough claimed to be live. There was no normal user activity on the computer None of the background trace is expected from someone actually broadcasting in real time thenen just after midnight The stream was manually stopped. A minute later The fileile was manually deleted It wasn't automatic Someone had to do it Well, only then did the details inside the stream begin to change shape Culler has said that he could not interact with the live chat He told viewers to talk among themselves He said that he would not be using his phone. At one point, he told the audience, quote, I am not leaving the house tonight wor sounded like ordinary live stream power now looked like excuses built into the broadcast before anyone had asked for them Hey guys, just so you know I ain't leaving the house tonight. So if anybody says it I did This is proof. I mean, it's just a statement why would you even say that then? If you if you know you're going be live I mean quote bracket You know, Why would you need to say that you're not leaving the house? Is that sort of a like a sort of slip of the tongue Yeah is another your brain bloody moment, I think Because you had something planned. Hm Honestly. Yeah well that planning appeared to reach beyond the video While Natalie was still at home on the eighteenth of December Kulla had searched translink timetables for a busust. from Dunmurray to Luran and a later train back towards Lisboron What had looked like an ordinary Sunday evening. now had structure beneath it timing. Transport distance and a route that matched the movements investigators were piecing together Let me search up by fucking My entry route and my exit route to the murderer that I'm claiming that I didn't do There's many timres of we've done this and many you know, true crime episodes of things that I've watched and on cases the stupidity just reallyally gets me. I'm just thinking you are ing dumb This ain't TV. No. This decision Breaking bed or some shit, you know, like come on I just think how how can people be so bloody stupid? Be they think it But some of them, they think they're smart Yeah They think they can they can outsmart the cops and I guess that's what it's like for all criminals. you know, they think they are smart, but to be fair, you will get caught. you know just they think that there's the, you know, some bumbling fucking police force that I don't know about this whole YouTube thing thinging is There's this Stehen McCullough is just one person thinking about this crime and committing the crime and trying to get away with this crime. whereereas you've got like Hundreds of officers all got their minds together to solve what has happened you know, you cannot fight hundred of different offices, you know can now oh We should go down this route, try this. let's look at this. let's jo me. Call the c Cybercrime Division Exactly Once the live stream began to collapse, other details started to emerge as well. On his computer, McCuller had created a file called zero zero zero Natalie Timeline It set out his movements in careful order. food, the live stream, the messages The worry, the discovery Even the horror find in Natalie was reduced into clipped notes Blood everywhere, cold touch, no pulse It did not read like grief, it read like a record being kept Let me put a Google dooc together to say how I need to do everything and how do I need to reach?'s like I in it and being like, right. This is what I need to say. this is what, you know, in order of what I need to say and blah, blah, blah. What an absolute moron Well, his attempt to point police elsewhere also came under pressure From the beginning, McCullough had told officers to look at Natalie's former partner He described him as aggressive and abusive He said the man had been harassing Natalie with calls and emails, including messages he claimed were derogatory and sectarian Police check that account too. Natalie's former partner had been watching the World Cup final with his girlfriend He was also recorded asleep on a sofa The route McCullough had tried to open for investigators to absolutely nowhere. Well, in the meantime, McCuller had kept himself close to the people around the case On the twenty sixth of january, while Natalie's family were preparing for a vigil He went back to their home. He was welcomed in, stayed for a time and then left. But within minutes he returned saying he had forgotten his phone phone had not simply been left behind It' been recording. Yeah He left it on record. Yeah For thirty nine minutes The device captured Natalie's family speaking in their home. House of grief had become another place He tried to monitor around the same time Further posed as a journalist and contacted Mark H. Durkin and MLA who sat on the policing board asking questions about the case McCullough worked for the Belfast Telegraph But he was not a reporter, like we said. His job gave him no reason to seek inside information about a murder investigation. And that's very suspicious because obviously, you know, dude, you are not a journalist. So You know, you're just seeking for An information to see whether they are on your tail or not?. Oh yeah, yeah Well He was just trying to like find out What are they saying? What do they say? they Well, by the end of January, the night was no longer hidden behind a screen The route, the taxi, the phone silence, the timetable searches, the timeline file The suspicion McCuller had tried to cast on Natalie's former partner fake live stream and the recording left inside the McNally home We're no longer sitting in isolation They were forming a chain. On the thirty first of january twenty twenty three, McCuller was arrested again. Well, the next day, detectives confronted him with the cybercrime evidence McCulla tried to hold the old version together saying it was impossible because people could see him on YouTube. But the technology had already turned against that answer After the interview, he gave a statement admitting the gaming session had been pre recorded while still insisting he had not killed Natalie He denied being the person seen on the CCTV and claimed the real killer had left a circumstantial trail to frame him On the second of feebruary, twenty twenty three Stephen McCullullough was charged with Natalie McNally's murder And that didn't surprise me because someone trying to frame me Well who in the hell would chart for an Dude. Give it up You know they would have found some sort of trail of someone like stalking her or something to, you know, in the direction of someone wanting to harm her But they've didn't find anything. No. And I think the most damning bloody thing that he'd done was writ in this damn, you know, timeline of what he wants, what he's got to say, when he's got to say it, when he's getting food, what you know, how that he's got to set up these live stream shit You know, I think he's Easy it Yeah bllowing bloods just idiot Well on the sixteenth of february of twenty twenty six Lurious six men and six women were sworn in at Belfast Crown Court before Mr. Justice Patrick Kinney Stephven McCuller denied murdering Natalie McNally The prosecution could not show the jury one perfect image of his face at her door They had was a chain A route, a phone, a taxi, a delete of file and a live stream that no longer meant what McCuller f it meant. Well, the prosecution led by Charles McCraner, KaseC, described Natalie's killing as plananned, calculated, and premeditated cararried out by a man who hid behind a lim stream and then performed grief in the aftermath The defense, led by John Kierney, KC, came at the case from another direction There was no eyewitness inside Natalie's home No cameras showed the killer's face at the crucial moment No footage showed McCulla leaving his house in Lisbne at the start of the journey if the prosecution said He had gone out to kill Natalie The defense argued You had to have that missing image. You had to put him right in it But they didn't have it. the defense lawyer, Mr. Kearnys told the jury that the devil is in the detail. He said there were troubling pieces that did not fit neatly into the prosecution case and that the evidence pointed not towards McCulla, but towards some other killer The fake live stream was not ignored, but it was given another explanation The defense suggested There could have been a financial reason to pass a recorded online event off as live, because a live broadcast might draw more interest than an ordinary upload Then came Natalie's former partner, McCulla had pointed police towards him in the beginning, and in court, the defense made him central to the argument He could not be named because of reporting restrictions The jury heard about difficult messages between him and Natalie. contact after their relationship had ended. and the fact that he had once lived at her Silverwood green home Tierney called him the quote. Persification of reasonable doubt Tking talking reasonable doubt Wellile under questioning, Natie's former partner admitted that the messages were hard to look at. He said he had taken advantage of Natalie and her good heart He said, She was the nicest girl ever and that he wished he had been better to her. but he denied killing her Then, in one of the most charged moments of the trial, he turned towards the dock and shouted Natalie was my best friend and you killed her. you can't Mr. Justice Kinney told him to calm down and answer the question. Yeah I'd be the same way They tried to sanitize that a little bit because in some of the reporting it didn't have on there where it says you can't I think most would say I would have yelled out I know you're not supposed to yell out and court, but some colorful language Well, that outburst was not evidence by itself, but it showed the rawess the defense had pulled into the courtroom Their argument was not that McCullough had told the truth about everything It was that suspicion was not enough A fake live stream was not enough Gaps in the CCTV mattered Alternative suspects mattered If the jury thought McCullough probably did it Karey told them. That was not enough even if they were almost sure There was still not enough They had to be sure The prosecution answered by returning to the patent. McCullur had told the people that he was liive when he was not He lied His phone had gone quiet during the very hours he claimed to be online The route led towards Natalie's home and back towards his taxi ended at Woodland Gardens The stream was manually stopped and deleted after midnight And when detectives confronted him, he first said it was impossible because people could see him on YouTube before later admitting that the gaming session had been pre recorded. But McCulla did not give evidence The defense reminded the jury that his silence could not make an unproven case proven But the prosecution said his refusal left the central questions unanswered. He had not explained to the taxi He had not explained the silent phone. He had not explained the route, the deleted recording, the timetable searches or the claim that someone else had somehow left a trail leading back to him Well, you know, a lot of people don't give evidence and, you know We all know why they don't and it's not because, you know, it's because they're not going to be probably put themselves in a good position to you know, show that they're Yeah. You you know what I mean? I know what it' It's the best thing to just Just stay quiet. Stay quiet, yeah he would been eviscerated on the stand. Exactly. You know, he might crumble and his lawyers are then going be like, Oh, shit, you You lose your cool, you lose your composure, and that's it Yeah So you know, we do understand that a lot people would stay silent, I think I probably would as well be fair. but So the trial came down to two competing versions of doubt. defense, the gaps were where reasonable doubt lived fore the prosecution, the gaps were not gaps at all. but spaces between connected points The jury did not have to see one perfect image of McCullor at Natalie's door, they argued they had to decide whether the whole chain led anywhere else after Mr. Justice Kinney gave his directions, the jury retired. Natalie's family and friends waited in the public gallery behind the dock McCulla waited too The man who had once filled six hours with noise us now sururrounded by stillness And after around just two hours of deliberation The jury returned Two hours. not long. doing the paperwork, The verdict was unanimous Stephven McCullor was guilty of murdering Natalie McNally. gallery erupted with emotion, I can imagine McCullor stood there without expression as the verdict was read The judge told him murder carried a mandatory life Sentence Yep the ter of to be Determined. Yes, we will bring that to you But he was foundound guilty of murder Rightly so. Yeah Bastard Well, the jury had rejected his false trail rejected the performance and rejected the argument that the gaps were enough In the end, the courtroom did what the live stream had been built to prevent It made Stephen McCullough Visible Well, after the verdict, Natalie's family stepped out of Belfast Crown Court into a world that had finally named what happened. David McCullor been found guilty And the story he'd built around himself had collapsed in public Justice is not repair does not bring a back a daughter It does not give a baby as first Christmas his first steps or the ordinary future his family had already begun to imagine for him Yeah. for me that he should have got another in charge for killing that baby as well. Y I definitely think there should have been like a two life center or You know, there should have been like a murder charge for something attack because that that was a life and you know While outside Core, Natalie's brothers, Niile and Declin. spoke for a family that had carried more than three years of grief They thank those who had helped bring the case to court and the communities in Lurgan and beyond who had stood beside them Their words were grateful. but not triumphant No, definite it's an amazing thing when community something so tragic happens and community around family that's gone through something like this Come together Come together and they support them, you know, I think it's an amazing thing brought her the focus back to Natalie and Baby Dean He described Natalie as inspirational and said having her in their lives greatest joy that they would ever have He said she would have been an amazing mother. He also spoke about violence against women and girls calling it the shame of society and saying everything possible had to be done to end it. Yeah, damn right, my friend. I agree The family also paid tribute to Noel and Bernie, Natalie's parents Decklin said he did not know how they had held everything together over the previous three and a half years Behind every report, every legal argument, and every crowded day in court There had been a mother and father carrying the same absence a daughter and grandson. who should still them McCullor now faced the mandatory life sentence that comes with murder But the minimum term, the number of years he would have have to serve before he could even be considered released left for a later hearing set for the fifteenth of May A conviction press reports said that he was being held up Mugabry. prison separated from the main prison population for his own safety Prison sources quoted in the press the said he was considered a target because Natalie had been pregnant when he killed her Yeah, good. Hope he gets his ass fucking whooped. Yeah prisoners don't like child murdereers. Oh no child molesters. There is that sort of, you know, as they call it honter among thieves sort of You know, stuff like that There's a higher's like, hey dude situation. Yeah d'w at the bottom of the barrel. Yeah. You're under the fucking barrel Well, in the days after the verdict, people who had no McCulla began looking back through darker glasses forormer colleagues, remember The unight shifts, the energy drinks, the smoke filled car, the exhaustion, and the awkward humor Dr. Who Talk and the YouTube channel One former colleague wrote about seeing the footage and recognizing something familiar in the figure's movements Gay. bottle of Coke the awkward movement of someone they had once known from the office. Now tide forever a murder. Before the trial, McCuller's YouTube channel had reportedly gained thousands of new subscribers after he was charged It dropped by around twelve hundred immediately after the charge. then began climbing again eventually reaching around forty one thousand seven hundred Across hundreds of videos, the channel had passed fifteen million views and the most watched video was the very live stream at the center of the case channel was later removed Yeah after it was like right after he was convicted. They're like ye shut that down But it's like the the dark curiosities. You know, just like our our birken hair one you know, people are like old the dark murders, the dark you know, let's go get some souvenirs. Oh this was from the murder house, ye know. I do think, you know It's a bit like B back in the old days when they did have public hang ins and things like that, it's a bit of a spectacle and people want to be involved in somehow, like they want to know You know what I mean? It it's such a curiosity and Yeah I definitely think, well, it's just human nature to be fair. I don't think people going to look at it any malicious way or anything like that. Just curious Yeah And Id bring up broken hair that's next week's episode. Drop that Yeah, drop that one next week. So look out for that one There's something deeply bleak about that though. The false alibi became content Curiosity became traffic The same screen that helped McCulla lie kept drawing people in. Long after Natalie's family had been left to live with the consequences for a case built around performance. That afterlife feels especially grim. an audience still gathering around the edges while the person at the center of the story was no longer there to speak for herself I'm McCull, once one of McCuller's closest friends also spoke after the trial She said he was not her friend anymore and that she did not think he was a good person and that she did not believe he had ever been the person he portrayed himself to be Looking back on the distress he showed on the night Natalie was found, and said, quote I believe now that it was all an act. But when she spoke about Natalie, the tone changed Natalie, she said, was wonderful So funny. and such a wonderfully kind person She added She would have been a great mum. There was also the vigil footage After the verdict, images from the rally in Luran Park took on a darker meaning McCullough had been there in the crowd Close to Natalie's grieving family and community He wore a pink t shirt pink and blue ribbon and slogan badges that had belonged to Natalie, including one that read No means no. He had helped prepare the montage shown that day homeome videos of Natalie, images from her life Even the ultrasound of the baby she was carrying At the time, people believed he was just another mourner after the verdict The image became almost unbearable It's like a sheping wolf's clothing int it, you know, you Absolute monster I so that's the most disgusting thing, but then They do that in order to try and you know, not put themselves as suspicious. They're putting on the masks. Yeah. Yeah, wolf and sheeps clothing as well saying isn't? Yeah ye As Stepven McCullar's life failed But the damage he caused cannot be measured by a verdict even by a life sentence It is measured in the daughter who never came home grandson who never arrived The family occasions permanently changed and the ordinary future taken from Natalie before it had the chance to unfold. And that's where the story ends. N with the man on the screen, not with the performance he tried to leave behind But with the woman he tried to erase from it Natalie McNally looved remembered and brought back to the center of her own story Well, that was the story of the live stream lie and the murder of Natalie McNally Yep and little baby Dean. Yeah What an absolute fucking monster that dud was to do something like that. and just tragic. going to the visual and like, I'm gonna do the montage Oh. This is where I go. We needar the death penalty. just We don't need that. in the world anymore. Well, you know, what's he going to bring to society he's um is just despicable person. Absolutely despicable Well, hopefully we will have the tariff firm It point time. They do say u It's a minimum of twenty five years so, but we'll see It's not long enough. It should be a whole life Well it could be, you know, so were we're still obviously we're u time of recording it's just a day after the tariff sentence hearing. So We've got it close. Yeah, we've still not heard of the result of that yet, but as soon as we do, we will update you in a later episode. We do batch record sometimes so it might be Yeah a little bit later So thank you so much for listening. this one's wild Yeah. And just very sad, another very another very sad case. a young she would a happy time. Her unborn baby that is just It tes from their family and Yeah by a monster Well, if you'd like to support the work that we do here in the archive, please take a moment to follow the show and leave us a five Sar eightating. It really helps others discover the stories that we tell and keeps the archive growing. Sharing the podcast with someone who loves true Cime also makes a difference Also, you can jump over to our Patreon for more true crime episodes and free in twenty four hours early Just go to patreon. com for a slash Murder Mostritish podcast And we have all of our socials and everything. They're all you know, in our Yeah Whatever it's called again, wasas it a link tree?? Everything you need, socials, discord and more is in our linkt. Oh, that's right, That's right. Ecellent. Well, until next week, stay safe and stay curious Take care guys And now we have our Patreon Ravens cououncil. We have Ruby Tucker, nineteen fifty six Cler Extreme Cunge Whiskey forty five. and Kelly Thank you very much for your support. It means so much to us Thank you guys, thank you very much S. Yeah. Thank you very much See you next time. Thank you. byye.