Brando's history of difficult behavior

Hello and welcome. I am Josh Whittdakomb. For today I amm the curator of a place of incredible artifacts and exhibitions, a place that stores the greatest thing on Eth. This is my archive of pop culture. As a self confessed pop culture obsessive. I love the geniuses, the scam artists and there I set the absolute madmen. They've made the records shows and films that we love In each series I will tell you a story of unlikely triumph and usually an enjoyably crushing failure, featuring celebrated stars that in any other industry would probably be politely sacked It's a show for people more interested in David Hasselhoff than David Lamy, Elizabeth Taylor, than Queen Elizabeth I. Butuch let's be honest, is all of us Joining me to discuss the making of Apocalypse now comedian and friend, Tom Crane In the mid nineteen seventies, America stood at a crossroads. The Vietnam War had recently ended, leaving deep social divisions and a crisis of trust in government after the Watergate scandal. Alongside this, American cinema was reinventing itself after the demise of the old Hollywood studio system. a new breed of young, hungry and fearless filmmakers are forging a new path Scorsese, Lucas, Spielberg, and the oldest statesman of the group, Francis Ford Koppola. Amongst this landscape, the visionary filmmaker, off the back of the huge success of the Godfather in its sequel, risked his fortune, health and sanity to go deep into the heart of darkness, to make our guru the most infamous war film of all time This is the insane story of a doomed production. This is You gul crown Typhoons, heart attacks, civil war, actors being slightly overweight high on drugs and even removed from the film completely. This is the story of Frances F Copola and the most infamous and psychologically destructive film production in Hollywood history. The incredible story of the making of Apocalypse now No s. I'll never lookget. You Okay I heard of Colonelalter E. Kurz. Your mission is to terminate the cololonel's command. Terminate Terminate. extreme prejudice Iother spill of my pum in the morning You know. Good morning, Tom Cryine. Good morning, Josh Whittakam. Apocalypse now Here we are. Yes, at last. Have you seen it? So Apocalypse now feels like one of those films I feel I've seen. I think everyone feels they've seen it, don't they? And I'm sure there's been conversations where people have asked me about it and I've essentially said I have seen it, but not entirely confident that I have. Does that make? I think it's one of those scenes Even if you haven't seen it, you've managed to see all of it. Yes, in different clips over a number of decades Yeah, that's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. It's also can piece it together from various clips shows or various kind of this is what happened in the seventies or Hollywood disasters. You know at the end of like Sherlock when he sort of puts all those bits of information together com there go yes, I get. The other issue with apocalypse now in terms of me watching it now because I looked it up yesterday. Apocalypse now It's exactly, it's two and a half hours, which for my current life with young children and all that sort of stuff, it's just basically it's too long a movie for me to watch now. I've got like an hour and a half. When would be your opportunity to watch that? Well, there was a film called The Irishman, which I think was about seven weeks long. Have you seen that mov? It was about three and a half hours long. Is that the one where Picino and De Niro have got the CGIed es That's the one. Yeah that's too long for me. So I watched that in about I'm not going exaggerate. probablybably about eight or nine sittings. And that was about a year and a half ago. All at the TV. All at the TV O are you like getting up on your phone while you're brushing your teeth? Do you know what I mean? like you would with the podcast? There were a couple of laptop twenty minutes here and there. Y. Mostly the TV, but it's not really how you can enjoy a film. And apocalpse now unfortunately suffers the same fate. It's just so long. basically an hour twenty four now eels like too much for. One hour twenty four. It's my gut off Yeah, o. Basically a Pixar movie, it's my c. Yeah. So in conclusion, I think I have, I'm not sure having it for another ten years. Yeah, exactly. but when the kids leave home, I will watch apocalypse now immediately. Right Well, you don't need to have seen apocalypse now for this story So over three parts, we're going to tell you about what We did some bonus episodes, didn't we on Dror Moreau, which loved it. whichich was another Marlon Brando disaster.. But this is probably the problem for a lot of films that are going disastrously wrong that it's possible to get victory from the jaws o total madness and defeat. Do you know what I mean And we you know, we both work in TV. We've heard of shows which were an absolute disaster to make. Yes and came good in the edit or even just on TV. Completely. And vice versa, I've spoken to people who've been working on things before it's come out and said it was a joy, it's going be wonderful and then it doesn't come to pass. Exactly To the point where some people, there's an element, isn't there that without the suffering the art doesn't count or is not good But there's a danger that that perpetuates practices and behaviours. Exactly. exactly. because obviously, as we talk about the island of Dct Mot was horrendous and Surely, lots of people who worked on that would have thought, well, we can't do that again. But Apocalypse now is now lauded. It's one of the great movies ever. but I do know. I don't know the details, but I know it was horrendous. Well, you're about to find out the details. Very exciting. The thing with it is I would love to read a study where over a number of years got people on set to mark out of ten One of those buttons you get outside like a toilet in a Exactly. Yeahactly the set you have to press the butt. Exactly. And then you track that against critical acclaim. see whether an enjoyable set is a positive thing. Yeah. which the whole end justifies the means thing as well, isn't it? Yeah. And it also that also speaks to terrible behavior from Hollywood stars, which is fine because They produce the goods on screen and that people want to go to watch them. It's all the same sort of story, isn't it? really? Yeah, And I suppose there's also a question of what situation as an actor do you find your most creative? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I'd say in comedy, you want a light feel. Yes, you know what I mean? But you know what? when you speak to people that have done heavy stuff Often you'll say to them like, wasas it like really intense? and they'll say, no It was actually a real laugh onet. Do you know what I mean? Okay, I can't think of an example, but I wouldn't be surprised if you spoke to people who worked on, you know, adolescents and they were like, actuallyually, we all were really friends and we had laugh at lunch because sometimes you need that lightness away from it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. Yeahah, absolutely I think in this, there is an argument that they find depths, certainly in a scene with Martin Sheheen depths found that maybe wouldn't have been found if it was a happy ship. That's really interesting And I look forward to finding out more about that Yeah. so let's start with a quote by Francis Ford Coppola It's always Prossecco o'clock somewhere, he says And that was because it was so stressful he really turned to drink that one Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah it's good ye. It's got that tattoo on the shoulder, isn't it as? He used to He used to have that on signcience around the set. Live Lugh L was the other one was Yeah. Live Lu. No of course yeah It was crazy and the way we made it was very much like the way the Americans were in Vietnam. We were in the jungle There was too many of us. We had access to too much money, too much equipment. And little by little, we went insane Incredible Wow. And for people that don't know Apocalypse now, it's a Vietnam movie and it is we will come to this, they go and film it in the Philippines and stuff If you know where in Vietnam Vietnam war It didn't go perfectly. It didn't go perfectly. And it was like increasingly insane and there was no way out And the analogies to apocalypse now are obvious in that sense in that you just get deeper and deeper in and everyone's going mad and there's drugs everywhere and there's carnage everywhere. It's a less extreme, obviously version of the Vietnam War, but it's the film lived film version of what? The Vietnam War was for the American government and American army and conscripts. I think in general, if you're drawing comparisons between your time on set and the actual war you're depicting, it's probably not gone brilliantly. the director of All Quiet on the Western Front went yeah, it was bas the same as being similar. entntrenched. Yeah for four months with no hope of survival Yeah. but It's like from what I do know about this, it is one of those situations much like the h of Dr. Mur where it's loads of people stuck in a place together, isn't it prolonged period, which are like a lot of filming is done in studio and there's sort of a cushioned world around it. trailers and, you know, and pampering in lovely food exactly. Whereas this, I suppose is The active opposite of that. Yes, exactly. And from this came the idea of Big Bother. o So let's start with Franis F Copola. So I have presumed he was born in New York, but he's actually from Detroit, Michigan Born in nineteen thir nine started another war, obviously. Right and if you know which one, by the way, if you're listening you know which one too, do get in contact. Yeah, yeah yeah. I'm not gonna to spoon feed you the info. I'll do everything for me you. Yeah yeah Carm mean Coppola Flaoutist What's a Flaoutist? Somebody who plays the flute. Is it? there you go. And his mother was Italia Coppola, who was a lyricist. They're both kind of second generation Italian immigrants. He's basically from an insane Hollywood acting dynasty. Well, no, he's not. He's the head of it. So he has two siblings, August Coppola and Talia Shire. so his children You'll know one of them. Sophia Coppola. Yes, amazing. Obviously lost in translation. And then he's got his son Roman Coppola who directs music videos. hisis third son died tragically in nineteen eighty six at the age of twenty two. And then his nephew Is Nicholas Cage? Really? Yeah, so August Coppola, his sibling. August Copola's son is Nicholas Cage. Yeah. And then Talia Coppola's son is Jason Schwartzman and his granddaughter, Gia Coppola is also a director. She did the last showgir with Pamela Henderson recently. So it is like ye, Hi achievement family High achieving family with him at the kind of had. All of this was to come. don I find it funny that Nicholas Cage is someone's nephew. Obviously it makes sense he is, but it's quite funny who's your nephew, Nicholas Cage Yeah music. I did. your nephew could be Nicolas G So he contracted polio as a child, he's bedridden for large parts of his childhood and he'd do like homemade puppet theatre productions at this point You know, is that the star he's looking for? Well I suppose it is, isn't it really? Because thats sort of storytelling, it's characterization It's all those things which are when you draw them out the same as any film making any kind of, you knowarr. We all want to visit our nephew or niece or son who is a polio ridden child bedridden, but I'd say the puppet that' the thing that's putting me off Let me know and he's put the puppets down and I'll come in and sayat with him. Yeah, exactly. See if he's okay He can't always be through the crocodile because' I can't watch Punch and Judy again. Are you imagining that the Punch and Judy sort of set has been set up on the bed in front of him? Yeah, that's how I'm picturing He's looking through it. ye, yeah like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.. That'sactly how I'm picturing it and it's unbearable And whenever the nurse is coming in, all communications are vire punch or jy. Exactly. And the production's incredibly intense like apocalypse now. And the nurse has to pretend to give an injection to the puppets before him, that sort of stuff. It's out It sort of loses its charm very quickly. Yeah yeah. Yeah, great. But he edited his own eight millimeter home movie footage. The films had titles such as The Rich Millionaire Great title, isn it? Absolutely. And the Lost wallet. Okay, lot's s of intriguing that one. Is that part of the Rich Millionaire series? Have a trust. It might be. Is We go downhill He's money obsessed, which doesn't come across later on. Loses the wallet., why did I have it all in cash? I should have kept inside the bank This has really fucks things out. Yeah. Yeah. You get such a fat wallet as well. You wouldn't think you'd lose it. His father wanted him to study engineering instead he went to university as a theatre major, awarded a scholarship in playwriting.. So his classmates at Hostr University included Laney Kazan and James Khann, who both of which were in films. Obviously James Khn from the Godfather Yeah and then leaving university goes to film school. in UCLA. UCLA is one of those places that just rolls off the tongue, doesn't it? Yeah. It sounds cool. So he starts, right? He wants to make extra money while he's at college and he realises there's money to made in adult movies. So he writes a short erotic film called The Peper, featuring puppets He just performed all through once again Juty set. Yeah. The peeper. Okaykay, that doesn't sound erotic. it sounds a bit creepy the Peer. Well, it depends what you find erotic, doesn't it? Yeah That's true. yeah, not for me to shame Pe feels like the other people aren't really in on it Yeah, exactly. So the company approached him about the people And they've got a film that they've shelved starring a Playboy Bunny. and they basically ask him to re edit them as one film. likeike a kind of, you know, those cars that are cut and shuts. That was a big kind of worry in the nineties when we were growing up wasn't it? I don't know whereher that still happens. Yes, But he's got to combine two films into one. So you're saying he's made a film called The Peper, which is a sort of sexy film. And there's another film that exists with a playboy Bunny, which has been filmed but then shelved. and they are asking, can you cut those two films together to make one film? That is quite the ask. Yeah But he does do it. It's called Tonight for short and it's released as a softcore sec comedy. I just can't understand how that could possibly work though you've got two entirely disparate bits of feel that you're trying to cut together. Yeah maybe you' a beep pl I suppose if you've got a peeping character You'll just kind of know what he's seeing F him up the tree with his binoculars Yeah, exactly. Okay, fine. That's a mad request, though, fair play to him. It's odd, isn't it? I also think that the genre of sex comedy is weird. Yes. It's actually a very British thing, isn't it? Like no sex plers are British, and obviously the carry on films and stuff. But I'd say comedy and arousal are two very different ends of a spectrum My wife and I have no laughing rule actually. We're not allowed to whever it has to be all business Sly serious. Not even as p the comedy gigs, you have no shaging rule as well. That's another other thing exactly. ye That' by f two lines in the s. Yeah. But no I agree with you. It is a weird because it's sort of then maybe it's trying to achieve a different thing. It's sort of like just like titillation and then you know kind of having a bit of fun, aren't you? It's not meant to really tell. But it's all likeoo b ball and then you know, she's caught, you know Yeah, Is Beny Hill in that sort of area? I don't think yeah, I suppose that's more comedy than sex isn't it? It is, yeah I should say cr that the splicing of two films was quite common at the time in B movies Really accing to Michael. Yeah, I don't it feels canan Michael explain how that worked then? I don't know the specifics for this one, but there's a very famous example. Are you aware of the filmmaker Peter Bogdanovich? I think the last picture show is his most famous one And he ended up playing Dr. Melfy's therapist on the soprano. so he was like therapist's therapist.. Okay. But he famously got his big break with Roger Cormman, the B movie producer, who said he basically had two days the actor Boris Karloff owed him on a previous contract So he said, you can make a film, but you have to use those two days with Boris Karloff and then incorporate whatever you shoot with some other old footage you had for some other movies. And then he could shoot some extra stuff to basically stitch it all together. And he made a film called Targets, which did really well. And off the back of that, I was to have a feature film career. So I think it was quite a common thing where they were churning out content with whatever leftover stuff they had. That's so interesting. becausecause as someone who writes some narrative stuff for sitcoms and stuff, there's so much planning and structure Like that so much of it is working out how things develop and it that sort of goes against all those rules of patiently working out how things develop and what you want things you're literally just having to make the most of whatever bits are thrown at you. It's so against what traditional storytelling, structure and discipline is, if you know what I mean It it must be kind of a mad way of doing things. But I suppose it's just a financial decision, isn't it really? that this stuff exists, There's an opportunity to use these people and we can just get something out there. That's kind of what it is, isn't it? Yeah. It should be said that none of those films that do this and use this technique are any good. So there's probably a very reason why Right yeah. Okay, right, okay, fine. That makes more sense now yeah Yeah. So he does after this, Tom, he makes his first feature film nineteen sixty three, which is a low budget horror. I called Dmentia thirteen. Okay. During the making of Demmentia thirteen, he meets Eleanor and Neil and they get married a few months later. Eleanor discovers she's pregnant. He wins his first Oscar in nineteen sixty three for his work on a screenplay for Patn. He's only twenty seven when he worked on Paton. W, which makes him one of the youngest writers involved in a mjor studio epic. he's kind O to fight. nineteen sixty nine, he makes Rign people with James Carn, already discussed and Robert Duval, who both end up in the gofather. first of his films to exceed its budget. and the studio kind of underwrite it after he tries to fund it himself. But he's kind of impressed by alternative movie making and he wants to kind of it alone away from the major studios who he starts his own studio called Zoe Trope. Right. And they go into partnership with Warner Brothers to help set up. And the kind of rule is Warner Brrosers get first look at any scripts that Kopla and Zoey Trope are working on. And then in nineteen seventy two, he has a mega hit Sergio Leonei, who directs Bad the Ugly turns down the Godfather. Right. And Coppola gets to direct the Godfather, which is based on a novel by Mario Puseo. He initially rejects it thinking the novel is like sensationalist and sleazy. Yeah. but he owes money to Warner Brothers and with his bad financial situation he just agrees to do it. Wow That's an amazing fact. I know it's wild, isn't it? The thing Yeah. But we're talking about like he says They were very unhappy with it. They didn't like the cast, they didn't like the way I was shooting it. I was always on the verge of getting fired. I had two little kids and the third one was born during that We lived in a little apartment and I was basically frightened that they didn't like it. So this is during the filming of the Godfather, the studio weren't happy with it. That's amazing. He thought he was going to get sexed during the filming of the Godfather. He's nominated for eleven Oscars, wins three including a screenplay award for Copola. got Fother part two, which I actually prefer Its nominated for eleven Oscars to win six Including the Best Director awward for Coppola. I mean, it goes without saying they've also stood the test of time as two of the greatest movies in the world.' absolutely incredible. There are lots of examples of that actually. and you see it in TV as well of shows where friends who've worked on things and the feedback from channels has been this is we don't like this, but ahead of it going out, we're not particularly happy with it, whatever goes out the one I'm not going to name, but one of the most lauded BBC sitcoms' one, lots and lots of awards. I know that the channels were just not behind at all and then it happened to too brilliantly Now obviously they love it. And it's interesting the people with the money, the people are making it often have a different feeling towards something to the audience themselves when it goes out. Yeah but I think there's been interviews with Stehen Merchin and Ricky Javis where they say like they weren't like it wasn't that the BBC was against the office, but they certainly weren't like the really huge. Interesting. So that huge success of the Godfather means that he can go and make apocalypse now. gives him the power money to make apocalypse now It's a project that's been bubbling away in the background for a few years. George Lucas, who was his pal was originally slated to direct it. He loves a long movie, doesn't he, this guy? He does, doesn't he? Yeah. The Godfathather's apocalypse now. he's not a massive fan of cutting things down, seemingly No. My one hour twenty four rule is not something that Yeah He's not your kind of director. He's not thinking about parents who have an hour and twenty minutes left after their kids go to bed. No, I don't think he is. I think he's imagining people going into the cinema who believe in film as an art form. Well good luck to him if he thinks he can have a career doing that. Exactly, yeah. So he brings in John Millius who is writer. I think he's a bit of new this guy, Tom. Okay. He's from California. He's immersed in surf culture. Oh yes. Here's a quote that I've heard you say before, My religion is surfing Yeah, of course, ye ye. Yes. Isn't it where two people who've never met could say exactly the same thing? Exactly. That's strange. twoo different parts of the world. Yeah. Your God is the wave, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. that and rip curl That's my church, the Rripl shop. The rip cant shop is your And your font is your surfboard, isn't? Yes, Thankk you. Thank you for saying that so much don't have to for a thousand time. Yeah. So he goes to South California film schoolchool where he becomes part of a generation of New Hollywood, which is like Lucas, Spielberg, Coppola, all these kind of what would you call them like bad boys that well not all bad boys, but like, you know, aurs who Okay Transform Hollywd. If you want to read about them, Easy Riders Raging Bulls is a great book about all of them. That guy is about a billion times cooler than we are, by? The surf guy. He's a surfer kindes film director who hangs out with Spielberg and that lot wait for it. He's also got a distinctive persona in Hollywood that he cultivates. Right, which is a cigar smoking gun enthusiast, self styled warrior poet Okay self styled. I don't think you could be less like you really. Yeah, yeah. ye that's amazing. I don't know you can are you allowed to sel style yourself as a warrior poet? I don' think someone has to tell you you're that. Yeah, yeah. I'd that you can go around to self styling. think I think that has to be written about you I'll just go around saying, I'm a warrior poet. Well put that on your passport, can't you? Yeah Exactly ye. This is a quote he's got about himself. A lot of people thought of me as a threat to Western civilization. Oh God, this guy's awful Okay You're a threat to dinner party if I'm sat.. He says, they think I'm crazy. That's good. That's part of my job Yeah, I'm rapidly going off this guy. So he kind of leans into it because he thinks in Hollywood, being a character is quite a powerful thing for a filmmaker. I'm sure it is. ye. Also, he's got slightly different politics to everyone else. He says, I think the United States is a great country. I don't apologize for that And that kind of puts him out of step with a kind of liberal LA industry at the time. So He's the man that Koplar offers the chance to write apocalypse now, a Vietnam warar film. And he takes it instead of taking a different job and he says that was the most important decision I made in my life as a writer. It's originally for George Lucas, but George Lucas wanted to do it as a low budget quasi documentary film, but that's not how it plays. Fly on the wall star. Fly on the wall star. So It looks to camera like the office That sort of thing Exactly. few talking heads. Who's put my machine gun in jelly? Yeah Who's done it? lookooked to. Yeah. Right. So Millus's idea, his key idea is to adapt The Heart of Darkness. Okay, which is a book by Joseph Conrad from eighteen ninety nine. But that's not Vietnam, is it? No, no, because it was written in eighteen ninety nine. Yeah, no whereere is that? That' It's set in the Congo, right? Africa, isn't it? So It's about European imperialism in Africa. and it's about a journey up the Congo River to find Curtz, who's a rogue ivory trader who's basically a G gone roue And they find Curtz and he's formerly an idealist, but he's sucumbed to madness and savage kind of brutality in the jungle Okay. And so they adapt this for Vietnam. So it's a journey to find Colonel Kurtz in Vietnam. who's kind of gone rogue, right? Yeah yeah. That's the story. There's a real history and tradition of storytelling whereby people are just sort of in the least hospitable environment and they're going bonkers, let's say stuff like Lord of the Flies Treasure Island has a lot of that. There's something about it which is fascinating. because I suppose you're thinking how am I reacting in that situation And it speaks to some innate fear that we have of being away from the things that make us feel safe. It all comes back to Big Brother and we will be covering that in a different series, Tom Yeah, But but you know what I mean? you can see why these these stories to repeat themselves. And Vietnam feels terrifying And lawless andes the paranoia and just awful. J absolutely awful. And also the debauchery and honism that was weirdly happening during war It' the fact there's the fear of the unknown, there's the fact you could get killed at any point, but alsoly which high all the time andving mad life It's kind of yeah, it's great. So it's basically a journey up the river and that's a great story to tell about Vietnam because it examines the moral chaos of the Vietnam War and all that. Yeah. So the screenplay were written in nineteen sixty nine, that drafts of over a thousand pages were written. by the warrior poet because Copolar encourages him to include everything he imagines. And it quickly gets a reputation in Hollywood as unfilmable but brilliant. I'd say that's a really difficult note, by the way, from the director include everything you can imagine. I think if I writing something, I'm saying, you got can you give me some kind of confines within is I can see this works sprawling out a bit. Yeah. So they don't really get on. They don't really agree, Millius and Koppler. Millius says of Kopoler's revisions of his thousand page script. he wanted to ruin it, liberalize it and turn it into hair. So they go. And Koppler ends up doing loads of rewrites just throughout the whole process Quick thing, you know, we just need to kind of say what the Vietnam War is and the state of America at this point. Obviously this is the late seventies by the time the film is being made and coming out But the Vietnam warar comes along And it's seen initially as a fight against communism, winnable controlled conflict and That doesn't happen and America can't get out of it. And then also it's maybe, I mean, they say Iraq War one, as they would call it, is the first kind of televised war, but it is brought into living rooms by television and color television and all those kind of things, right? If you could imagine such a thing as America launching themselves into a war they're struggling to extricate themselves from. If you could possibly imagine something like that. that you could. After Vietnam, they learn their lessons. Yeah, exactly they never learn Yeah. never again would this happen And by the time he's doing apocalypse now, the war is seen as pointless and unwinnable and no one's on the side of the war, really.. And like college campuses are you know they're doing all these protests and stuff. And then there's the Kent State shootings where National Guard actually kill student protesters and it's all incredibly grim. And then you've got Watergate and the collapse of institutions peopleeople losing their respect for, you know, that's what happens in the sixties and seventies, late sixties, early seventies in America We're all aware of it It is worth holding that in your head. I can't think of many wars that have affected such Cultural change. No. Well, definitely within American history in the last it's like, you know, look at that the swhe of peace and you know, anti armament all this sort of stuff. Yes. It become create this huge generational thing, wasn't it? Yeah, sevententh America is kind of, you know, the time when it I suppose it loses its innocence, isn't it? I mean, that's a very, very exactly. I'd say there's more to it than that. I'd say that's a surface analysis. I wouldn't say But as we have to squeeze this into just three parts, I think it' a deal. I don't think we can go too deep That's just paddle, Joall. That's fine to paddle sometimes. We don't have to be be. But also, you know, it's fascinating because you've got, you know, if you listen to our studio fifty four episode, you've got all the New York collapse and son of Sam and all that. you know, it's just disaster after disaster. But as youplain you mentioned at the beginning how Tough times create great art, look at the music that's created during that period Exactly. it's once again it shows how through adversity, through stress, difficulty. Exactly. Wonderful things can come. So it's kind of it's a fascinating pie. And you actually, you've gone on record as saying you think that Vietnam was worth it for the art that came out of, haven't you? Y? Jus you You put that on record, you said, If that decade of war had to happen for apocalypse now to be created, even though I've probably not seen it, it was worth it I do it all over again. I do it all over again. and it was me Bea Vietnam warar films, they st there's one called the Green Beret starring John Wayne. I don't know that, which is one of the only openly pro war Hollywood films, which presents the US involvement in Vietnam as heroic and justified. Right And that's widely criticised at the time. that's basically old Hollywood mindset colliding with the new America Interesting. And so then in the mid late seventies you get these serious Vietnam war films. The war ends in nineteen seventy five, filmmakers then address it. You've got the Deer Hunter in nineteen seventy eight. Fantastic movie, which is I would say another one of those films that everyone feels like they've seen even if they haven't seen. Yes. That one I have actually seen that one I have seen. Yeah. and that actually comes out before apocalpse now. So Apocalypse now goes into Full production, right You've got your two leading players, your Unbearable writer and your insane director Also you've got your unfilmable text as well. That's another All they need now is some horrific location to do the whole thing in. Exactly, ye. And also, Heart of Darkness has never been successfully adapted before. It's considered unadaptable. Great. Awson Wells tried it He wass gonna to make it his first film, but he had to scrap it and they did Citizen Kane. The famously simple Citizen Kane instead And like this was written in the mid sixties by Millius. so Kopplla was going to produce it, Luas was going film it. So it's almost taken a decade to get. Like seventy five Koplar goes, I'm going to direct it, he starts rewriting the script and basically gets to do it because of the gofathers They raised fourteen million dollars for international sales and a deal with United Artists and seven million dollars from each of the deals. And then you get the first obstacle. I mean, thousand page script isn't an obstacle, which is casting a star. because as part of the deal, United Artists want a famous name So here we come to the big one. By the way, Josh, Michael has written on our chat the words movie brats which she either refers to us. He this is so good. He's called us movie back I think he's talking about the Hollywood seventies directors. Exactly. I think that's the name you were groping for earlier. that's the collective. Exactly. Yes, exxactly. Or he's just decided to write abuse throughout the record. He's now written. I never liked you Yeah I'm not reading that, Michael It's just written Dib nextxt word is the rudest word you can imagine. I'm not the say it is. Yeah. Steam MerQueen's offered the role of Willard. So Willard is the main guy who's leading the search, right? Yes. He loves the script, but he doesn't want to be out the country for seventeen weeks. Little does he know that would be the bare minimum. Haveving been just trapped in that prison in a warars scramp for ag. too much time away We see my family for two years. Yeah. Well it is his family. His wife doesn't want to take her son out of the country and his own son's graduating high school soon. so he's like, Ah, you know what? Nice guy. He's a good dad. Yeah. So he approaches Marlon Brando, who refuses to speak to him And then he offers McQueen the role of Kurtz, who is the guy they're going to find in the jungle. Okay. This is a huge role, but it's also less time filming because it's only the end obviously. o, yeah yeah. So it's only three weeks of shooting as opposed to seventeen and McQueen agrees, but says he wants the same money he' got for the lead role, which is three million dollars Incredible. Baller move. Yeah. Then Kopla approaches James Kann for the role of Willard. Karan says he's got a pregnant wife so he doesn't want to give birth in the Philippines. so he turns it down and then he cancels offer to McQueen and offers the role of Kurtz to Jack Nicholson, whichich would have been great. Yeah Jack Nicholson turns it down. He then offers Picino the Kurtz role Says he'llwrite it for and Pacino declines. So there's loads of people that turn it down. You think it's like a comedy, Josh, you know, there' situations where agents have failed to remove the previous people who've been offered things in email strings. Yeah sometometimes happens. You'll get something from your agent.'ll say, are youre interest in this and you'll scroll up and there'll be a list of people have turned it down because it hasn't been removed. Yeah. I'm imagining this is what's happening when it's making its way finally to Pino Yeah, I he sending a script to Pacino that throughout describes him as James Carn Yeah dear James. So he's basically under pressure because principal photography is about to start and he needs to lock in He's star. Popl is under so much pressure to cast a star and prrincipal photography is about to start and the panic. his anger gets so much that he gathers up his five Oscars and throws them out of his dining room window. Imagine walking past. Yeah, we can assume like him and his partner are splitting up or something. She's had enough of him. Yeah yeah, exactly. His children retrieve them, but four out of the five are broken. So then Brando's agent gets back in touch and offers to meet Koplar about the film So maybe this will solve it Martin Sheen is considered for the main for the Willowed role, but he has scheduling conflicts. but good news, they negotiate with Brando. He agrees million dollars a week for a three week shoot. Okay That's good of him. That's good of him. Yeahah. That's good of him isn't it?. FF play You know what I mean? He's not all about the money. No, exactly. pllus eleven point three percent of the backkend. Yeah. just eleven point three. Okay, fine. Yeah, yeah. There was a similar situation, I think, wasas he even the Arland talkct Morao, was that no? Yeah yeah, yeah Yeah. Yeahah He does a simil thing, doesn't he? He was like twenty percent.ome mad.' he's negotiating incredible deals consistently across Well, Hopler's lawyer offers ten percent, but Brando claims he wants more because he hates United artists. Wow. Yeah This is amazing. The confidence is ask. And he also wants a million dollars to be paid in advance, which they agree to, Which I would say is worrying from reducer's point of view. Kopoler says I began to see if this kept up, the industry would someday be paying three million dollars for eight hours plus overtime and have to shoot at an actor's house. So yeah, the power has gone But he's got Brando That's secured. And he starts casting for actors to fill out other roles Lawce Fishburn, you know Lawrence Fishburn Really. Yeah. He's it as a fourteen year old. No really. He lies about his age to get the role, but he still doesn't have a star. So Harvey Kitel signed up to play Willard. And with all this going on, Brando's beginning to have weekly meetings with the Kopla lastasting hours at a time to discuss the role of Kurtz in his scenes Right, Which sounds unbearable, doesn't it? Yeah Aus, man haaving that in the diary coming again Oh yeah, sixix hours discuss Rrand fucking Brandon Reurts. Yeah. You've got it at nine AM til five P here Again ye. So apparently Brand over he'd have brilliant ideas, genuine insight and then apparently just get distracted and talk about termites for hours. Okay. So it's difficult, isn't it? It's difficult So it's important that we get to know who Marlon Brando is, Tom before we head into the jungle because he's a key figure. Obviously, he's the most influential actor of his generation. He came through he's very method. He did a street car named Desire, all that kind of stuff and then he did on the waterfront. He was the best actor I've ever saw and also the most undisciplined. That's the kind of quote you're getting about Marlon Brando He ignore blocking, he change lines, mid performance, by the sixties, he's become openly combative with directors and studios. And then we discussed this on the Mau bonus episodes, which if you are a member of the fan cllub, listen to them, but we should cover it again here. He doesn't memorize scripts. Yeah. So he's still doing that for apocypse now, is he Yeah. he's reading lines of cue cards of camera boards He says this keeps his performances fresh and spontaneous, he doesn't have to learn them It's not that I can't be asked. Yeah. It's not that you're paying me a million pounds a week and I'm just living the high life. I just you know want it to be fresh. Yeah. Yeah. To be fair to him, there are a thousand pages of scripts to memorize, seemingly. It's the world's longest script. Well exactly. So one of the first Brando disasters is Mutiny on the Bounty, which is at se, obviously. begins Overeatating on this shoot. This is nineteen sixty two and during the shoot he splits the seams of his tight navvel trousers fifty two times. fififty times. fififty two times. one for each card in the deck. Wow. Well they're not tempted just to invest in bigger trousers. I think I know. After the fifth or six time of them tearing down the middle and you're seeing his bright red underpants. I think there's a point where you have to go up a size. Exactly. Don't just keep repeating the same trousers Be they are tight. I get naval trousers are tight, but they should be tight for the person Yeah enough to give them movement. Yeah that they can breathe. Yeah, ex exactly. I think wardrobees have to have a look at themselves if it's breaking Like if you're getting bigger, you make the trousers bigger even if the initial measurement is Yes. Yeah, exactly. So I'm team Brando on that one to be honest. I think that's you know's his fult. Yeah. So the script and direction he doesn't like them. You team Brao on this? he doesn't like the script and direction. so he puts in earplugs to block out the other actors and director. Not so much Team Brando on that one Well, that might be particularly difficult if he's not learning the lines. if he's not even entirely sure what the other characters are saying. I know it's wild, isn't it? Becauseuse I assume that if you're not learning the lines and you're at least purely reactive. Yeah and you're listening, we can't even do that No, so he falls out with Richard Harris after a scene in which he slaps him. The slap isn't hard enough and Harris says to him, Either hit me or fucking kiss me and be done with it before planting a kiss on Brando's cheek. And Brando s, sorry, what did you just say? And he said, either hit me or he's sorry, what did you just say? No takeake them out, please Let me please So frustrating. We talked about this briefly with the Island of Dctor Moreau episode. Yeah. obbviously it's unbelievably difficult, tricky behaviour, but I imagine it does play into the lore of this person. The idea of how brilliant they are is partly because of the extremes to which he's willing to go. He must be a genius'actly like that where uses star power to order the crew to stop working to decorate and plan a local friend's wedding in Tahiti as well. It's amazing, isn't it? He doesn't care, does he? He doesn't give a fuck. He literally has no shame. It's unbelievable. So on the Godfather, which obviously is a Coppolar film in nineteen seventy two, Coplar kind of protects him from the studio, allows him to do his process in the opening scene With the cat, it's just a stray cat that's on set that Brando picks up and he just starts stroking and that's become iconic. So it's kind of that's the genius of the man, right? But is a little fact, the purring of the cat made the sound unusable. so they had to re record the sound No. It's not insane? What in post? so you had to record that it was put over the top. Yeah, presumably. yeah Right fact That is wild, isn't it? Yeah J just he got a away way with cats as well, doesn't it? Exactly It was it pret the audio wasn't usable. Exactly. So he also is' at Q card's point of his career at this point as well. Y. So obviously they at one point they have to pin one to Robert Duval as well. and it's like this is just madness Also more trouser problems. Okay On the gofather we found the trousers is restrictive again. So if he's doing scenes where he can't see his legs, he just does them in pants Like put someone working from home in the pandemic and assumomed Yeah exactly. Yeah That's amazing. What an image James Kant says he was a genius, but he had to work around him I think the thing is, you are right that all these things, they don't undermine him being a genius. they actually make people more willing to say he's a genius. If he was just quite easy to work with, I think people are go he's just a very good actor. Yeah. And I think if he's immovable on this stuff as well Th then that suggests a self belief and a feeling that he knows what is right. And that also plays into this idea that he's a genius basically. So yeah, he does Superman in nineteen seventy eight. He plays Jorl, the Superman's father. His deal is one point three seven million do up frront for ten to fifteen minutes of screen time, around tencent to twelve percent of the box office And a few weeks at most, so he ends up with ten to fifteen million dollars. Incredible. Depending on accounting. Do you know if he's splurging this money and pissing it all up the wall or is he actually saving it and living quite a sensible life? I'm imagining a lot of it's just being spent on madness, sort of Michael Jackson' style lifestyle of life. Yeah, yeah. well he owns an islandurging it ye Yeah. old statues and stuff, yeah. Yeah yeah He refuses to learn lines. They write some of the lines on the baby's nappy when he's acting with a baby But they say he didn't want to learn his lines but he was brilliant. It's the same thing. How many lines can you fit on a baby's nappy? It's a very short scene, isn't it? Oh yeah, I don't know what the font size was. Maybe he was changing the nappy for the next line, Do you know what I mean So Budget it. casting brando in place Frances for Coppla moves his family out, to the Philippines for the seventeen week shoot. Yeah. seventeen weeks is one hundred and nineteen days it will eventually take two hundred and thirty eight days to shoot. Wow Wow, which is exactly twice that actually when I do the maths there. So that is where we will take up the story in the next episode. Do You know what I'm immediately thinking of there, Josh. is what a situation where you're there and you're consistently having to ring your wife and family to say, yeah, it's gonna to keep going. I know it would be one hundred ninety. but Yeah, just routinely having to do that every two or three days. I'm going to be in the Philippines for I've been thirds of a year. I'm sorry. Tell the kids I love them. Yeah. but that's why a lot of them bring their family out so Copola's family are out there and his wife Eleanor films the whole thing and Martin Sheen who we will come to He brings his family out and there's some things that happen to Charlie Sheheen that point you do think, I wonder what effect this had on him Okay we will cover all of that in the upcoming episodes. I look forward to it. May. If you want to hear those episodes now, also if you want to hear those Mora episodes we talked about, which is a great Hollywood disaster, then do join the fan Cub. You can do that by clicking in the show notes. othertherwise We'll see you in a few days. Very excited. See you then It's scary to watch someone you love confront failure going insane. what it was really like Crazy making it on the crest of the acclaim of the Godfather films every day a hundred problems but I don't know what I'm doing. I said, who is this Willard? And Francis looked me square in the eye, and he said, He's you Brandon agreed to the million dollars a week. Are they seriously saying that Marlon would not show up? It was like you were in a dream. I was not in the greatest of shape. Just do what I am. Marty's had a heart attack. I really had him post home V film is not about Vietnam. It is Vietnam.