The Implosion of the Utopian Experiment

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WeatherTech is built for all of those summer things, allowing you the freedom to go all in. WeatherTech is an American made premium product built to last and easy to clean. If you're going all out this summer, you need WeatherTech. Visit weatherteech dot com today Good. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent, the future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age fourteen, because NeX doesn't wait for an invitation, And Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach. Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle, and by engineering EV's with ultra fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day because the future isn't some far off concept It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodebye When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier town selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them, instead, he left a trail of broken bodies. This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Doror Death The Cowboy wherever you get your podcast or binge the entire series right now only with Audible Goodbye . Hello and welcome. to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hard Start. That's Karen Kilgara. No pointing. Oh yeah, sorry. That's against the. I was the only one doing pointing was rude. Point D't everop do it H How are you? I'm good I'm grateful to have the job of podcasting today. Same. yeep. Wh specifically today I don't know. It's just a really nice life It it's Vincent and we're talking about how it's all democracy is going to be over soon So like How do we celebrate what we have now? That's right. For me, I tell my therapist that When I'm really bummed, I think about if I took a time machine back to today because the apocalypse has happened I'm going to look at everything and be like, wow, I was so lucky. Yes to have these things and to be able to talk to these people and to do these. We have a hot dog phone. to have freedom to have a hot dog phone. So just pretend you're from the future. Yes, which is a dark place or not. Or rule of six. What's that? Dark terrible place and five other options. Okay. Gotta do five other options every time. Okay. My therapist does it like this though. She puts her hand up and then goes, dark this is dark terrible times It also could be Neutral times. Okay It be very bright and shiny timees. It Exactly the same. It could be like we're all working at Macy's all the time. Yeah. Weird, but doable. I could have a desk job, CV Richard Ellis Investors. You could one moment, please. So quickly. CV Richard Ellis Investors, I can't pay my rent. One moment, please Now there's your podcast. I mean, you've always worked in the voice area Clearly. that was your early training. Yeah And mine was reading aloud in sixth grade, which was my favorite thing to do. Oh, you love to be called on Beacause they would just go up and down the road. There's no way we haven't talked about this, but I would just I would go pick out the paragraph that would be mine. prracticeices. Practice, not too much, not too little. you didn't know, you didn't listen to what? Not a word. You kn what it was That was none of my business I was on that my paragraph. That's why that's ye And you killed it every time I was very proud of my reading skills. Oh yeah Nice and smooth. No trips. Yeah. Janet, for every bad thing she did, she fucking. She tell you to read them T me to read themem real Real good. The basics. She covered those basics. Three hots and a cot and a book that you could actually read for yourself Oh be late to birthday happppy birthday. I just back in littleittle gift wrappps. gift in front of Karen for her birthday. I will tell you, listener, it's heavy It's wrapped in gorgeous. So you wrapping. I saw it. It's from Etsy. es tell them what it is. It is a diet Coke ash tray, ladies and gentlemen. It is cute. So beautiful. It looks like hand painted, but then underneath some clear. It is read the maker on the back. Oh, the maker is where WARE your snacks. And so she has You can get that in like mine would obviously be it's a potato chip with crumb fresh and caviar on it. Oh, you can get hot dog, you can get Mine would obviously be who are you? Who are you Orange County That like that I likeice favorite. mine would obviously be a gold barbieesome cottage che Wh? It's just like so. But it's basically looking at something that makes your mouth immediately water or makes your thing go, that's my jam. That's your identity. So diet Coke, a can of diet Coke, I saw that. and I was like, I have to get that for carrying. It could be a cabole. You don't have toh you dont have to take up smoking. Oh, but I have to. Now that you've given me this, you've required it. And I'm gonna go right back to the capapries. They're thin. Oh, sure. They're easy to smoke. Yeah Ladies and gentlemen, look up nineteen eighty eights Capri cigarettes. Oh my God. Thank you so much. That's a perfect gift. Yeah. Now I have a gift for you that I realized the last time we talked about birthday gift giving, you were like, it's not my birthday yet. But I was like, oh, just we're gonna give each other a gift at the same. I like an in between thing ' our birthdays are like almost a month apart Yeah a month and a decade than a decade. Yeah. Wow. Almost exactly ten years apart. We're a generation apart Wow. I think that's the hook of this podcast. No one's caught on. That's true. It's like old and young. You know what I'm thinking about too is like the fact that we started this podcast when we barely knew each other, so we were getting to know each other at the same time The audience was getting got to know us that way. If we had already known everything about each other. It would all be facade. Yeah. so I think that's the secret Suce, I hate that term. Well, should we call it the Thousand Island dressing of our souls I agree. And I also think that we kind of knew it, but we also didn't know it.. I think we both had that like we're grabbing hands and jumping off this cliff, which other people wouldn't have done. Totally. And I think so there was a feeling of that, just discovering this now, but the feeling of that of like, she's up for this. R Whatever this thing is. She's up for it I'm game. Yeahah Thank God. Thank God And and that's this podcast. Well, thanks for listening. Goodbye. This is our way of saying, We quit. We both walk out Let's it fade to black. Also just point out that it has been ten years, but the last time we recorded, our episode was almost two hours long. I know. So the idea when people are like, are't you gonna run out of sth? It's like you would think we would. I' doing this story that meanans ten years in and I'm finally doing this story that means so much to me. It's not like I found the story and like Yeah another one. It's like they can still be so important and meaningful and shit. Unfortunately There's just a never ending. Yes. There's bad parade of this parade of humans. That's right. That's the name of the episode Oh, that's right. I wanted to ask everyone. they know that we name every episode. afterfter some ridiculous thing we say in the episode. And that's like obvious to everyone, but I was like, what if they don't know that? So like you gott to find the moment we say the dumb ass thing renamed the episode It's like a little Easter egg. Yeah, and everyone knows. And then if you figure it out, we'll send you an Easter egg in the mail. just one jelly bean. From this last Easter. They don They smell really bad That's your gift. Yeah. You know, when we planned this show, there was all kinds of futuristic technical easaster egg type thinking that we put into it. Totally. We love easaster eggs. We're like a video game. Yeah, but so real. I mean, this is a simulation How could it not be? I'll tell you the thing that the physicist said. Okay. When I worked on the T traravel show and somebody asked, that was the first question we asked And he said, it doesn't matter Come on, That's not what I was expecting. Because if it's a simulation, it's so good. You're right, We don't know. You're right. Or we're just catching on. But if it's a good enough simulation that we don't know, then that idea that like, I'm stuck in the back rooms or whatever people get online about and weird in their head, it's like it's better than that Go to the beach and then think about the simulation Go now Okay Oh, oh, okay. Oh, oh, oh shit. Wait a second. Well, first newFM animated. Oh my Godd, that's right. I haven't watched it yet of you. Neither of us have seen this, and so we thought it'd be fun to show you at the same time as we are seeing it for the first time ourselves. Our friend Nick Terry, by his own free will. Yeah, makes these incredible animations based on some dumb fucking thing that we've said. This started Mini sub four hundred seventy eight It' called Drama Me Let's if you're not watching it on Netflix, please do or go look it up. And now we're going watch it for the first time right here. It was summer of two thousand five and I was eight years old when we took a family vacation in Yosemite and San Francisco. While in San Fran, we got a boat tour that took us past Alcatraz and to some other island close by. What is that, Marin? I don't remember there being a two island stop for the Alcatatraz tour, but I haven't been there. Alcatraz two. Smaller and a hipper and there's a discount U there's an amazing nightlife on Algatra' too Okay, my dad was really nervous that I was going to get seasick So he gave me three dramamine and we rebordered the b. Turns out that the serving size of dramamine for an eight year old is half a pill. So I was knocked the fuck out. Hell yeah. My dad happens to be a fireman. it. And it says he's retired. now this is so classic So he walked around the island, Alcadraz with my sleeping eight year old body thrown over his shoulder in a fireman's carry So can I just stop here to tell you this? This is the most dad life thing I will ever tell you. Yeah, whichich is that at night when we were little, my dad, you could do a fireman's carry You could do sack of potatoes or you could ride a horse to bed. Those are the three ways we got carried to bed. You got to pick which one? hereope that So fireman's are just bent over his shoulder. Sackatotatoes, he's holding you bing. and you're behind. Oh my go. But then the horse, you got on on back put your hand over his mouth to feed the horse and he ran down the hallway and threw you on the bed Can you do it? Can I have that? I. That might be the greatest Yeah privilege Yeah having a firefighter dad. Oh my God. So that's I think this one gets me, especially because he just basically, like every fireman's like, we're just gonna to solve this problem. Just fucin. Okay. So he would occasionally stop and wake me up to eat ice cream and drink water with my eyes closed. My mom and brother took normal pictures and occasionally included me weekend of Fernie stuff. you see have a picture. Oh my god. Oh my go. It's the best picture too. The only thing that I actually remember about that day is waking up on a park bench next to a dog wearing sunglasses. Oh, she's awaken. Oh my go. she woke up at the end of all, that was like, hey! That is the yes D in Wow joyful thing to. I completely forgot that we knew what that little girl looked like. That's why the headband was so funny to me. It looked We we have an actual photo of her. Well, that was from Lizzie originally. Lizzie, I hope This is bringing you so much joy. You now have a character in the Nictia MFM animated universe based off of you as a child, like the real photo of you. God. That is so special. I love it so much. So good. that was so funny. I was wondering if your dad was gonna throw me over her shoulder. That would have been ra. Oh, that's right to give you what you wanted Becauseuse I was like, can I do it? And Jim was like, No. I only have this one thing, which is the funny interpretation as I saw it You rode the horse like kind of like a monkey on his back. So he had your legs in his arms. Okay. It wasn't because if you ran down a hallway on your dad's shoulders, I think it lamed into the door jam But not to criticize after the fact. Sure. That is a joy. Sure, can we edit? C I get that? edit it? in. And f round of notes have this to say. No, Nick Terry, we love you so much. Thank you so much What a joy So good. Okaykay, should we do network? Yes. podcast network. It's the fucking best. onlyn cool people. like you wouldn't even believe it. So it's called exactly right media. Here are some highlights. And one of the podcasts that is on this network is called The Knife. We love it. Hannah and Pata continue their unbelievable story of Paul Fronzak who was kidnapped from a Chicago hospital as a newborn in nineteen sixty four. in this episode as he digs deeper into his identity, he uncovers secrets that completely rewrite the story of his life. So wild And then over on this podcast willill Kill you, Aaron and Aron just keep bringing it think of these things. this time they tackle motion sickness. Just to go along with that MFM animator. R. Tell me everything. fromom boats to planes to the world's grossest historical cures. Yes, they break down why our brains and bodies completely betray us and me while traveling. Because you take three pills instead of half And on this week's That's Messed up, Karen Liza recap episode eighteen from season seven of Law and Order SV, entitled Venom. and their special guest this week is Joe Grafisi. Plus over on Ghosted, Rs is joined by drag quueen and comedian Juno Birch. And then just really quick over in the merch corner, the fan favorite married joggers, fuck you, I' married are officially back justust in time for wedding seasons, right? Grab a pair for yourself, your partner, or your favorite legally bound murderino at exactlyrrightstore d. com and don't forget you can watch brand new episodes of my favorite murder and buried bones every week on frreaking Netflix. Here we are. Have you seen yourself Have you been scrolling and just suddenly there's your face Or there's last fodcast on the left's faces I came home to my own face because while I was away, my dog sitter put on the podcast video for the dogs to see if it would help dogsit? We put on reggae because we heard that doogs like chill out reggae. Yeah But I should put my own fucking voice although Cookie loves bents more than me. so we should put on his pod. Yes. That's right. She's gonna be like, this bitch is still here Where's my My what to do? How Bob Marley. Summ'ers for adventures, road trips and adding a whole lot of miles to your car. That's why it's worth stopping at Valvaline Instant Oil change first. If you need an oil change, you make the smart stop at Valvaline Instant Oil change before you hit the highway. Their trained techs can help you get road trip ready with an oil change and an eighteen point maintenance check included with every oil change, checking your tire pressure, wipers, lights, and more. That means they're checking important things before you're halfway to your aunt's house with no cell service. And these aren't just any techs. Valvaline Instant oil change techs complete over two hundred seventy hours of training So your car's in capable hands. The best part, you can stay in your car and you're in and out in about fifteen minutes. So before your next long summer ride, pull into Valvaline inststant oil change. Valvaline Instant oil change, change wisely. G Bye. Summer is all about saying yes, going out and bringing the mess home in your car. Sand, grass, and melting snacks will inevitably hit a ride. But with weather teech, you can live life to the fullest WeatherTech floor liners, cargo liner, and seat protectors allow you to keep up with your summer adventures without the worry. WeatherTech is built for all of those summer things, allowing you the freedom to go all in. WeatherTech is an American made premium product built to last and easy to clean. If you're going all out this summer, you need WeatherTech. Visit WeatherTech dot com today. Goodbye Building better financial habits usually starts with a few small steps. Start that journey with acorns and give your money a chance to grow. Acorns is easy to use. You can sign up in minutes and start automatically investing, even if it's your spare change. The accorns potential screen shows you the power of compounding and how your money could grow over time. You can quickly adjust how much you're investing every day Or month to make sure that you're always building towards your goals. Sign up now and accorns will boost your new account with a five dollarars bonus investment. Join the over fourteen million all time customers who have already saved and invested over twenty seven billion dollars with acorns. Head to accorns d. com slash mFM or download the accorns app to get started. Paid non client endorsement, compomensation provides incentive to positively promote accorns. Tier two compensation provided potential subject to various factors such as customers' accounts Age and investment settings does not include Acorn's fees. Results do not predict or represent the performance of any Acorn's portfolio, invvestment results will vary. Investing involves risks. Acorns Avisors, LLC and SEC registered investment addvisor view important disclosures at acorns d. com slash mFM. Goodbye Springtime is finally here. The weather's warming up and it feels good to be outside again. Whether you're running walking or staying inside, now's the perfect time to upgrade your everyday basics with Bombas. Bomba's underwear and t shirts are the kind of base layers that can upgrade your everyday basics. Bombas's underwear are my new go to underwear. This is TMI, but I don't care because they are so comfortable I can wear them with a dress and there'll be no VPL. You know what I mean? Like just perfect. Head over to bombas d. com and use code MFM for twenty percent off your first purchase. That's BoMbAS d. com code MFM at checkout. Goodbye Okay, you're first I first and wow. Okaykay. so poof I've been studying up until like while I put my makeup on to the minute that I left the house. L it. When we were in high school, we spent day or two in history class learning about Vietnam. rightight? Like Yes, the basics. Sure. breezed over it, moved on with our lives. This is It sounds like a brag, but it's not. So I was really into the bandead Kennedyyss And because of that, they sing about a lot of historical stuff. So I was really into that band and then I would go look up things they were singing about and one of those people Exactly. I literally was like, Mom, what's Pull pot? Yep. Turns out and the song is called Holiday in Cambodia So I learned a bunch about it. I was really into Vietnam. I read the book The Killing Fields watch the movie and through the Dead Kennedy's music, basically they kind of like made you go, what is this about? Why would they be singing? Exactly. I mean, they also have a song about It was shot in San Francisco Oh,arvey milk. likeike they just you learn about shit, you wouldn't know Pull pot Cambodia, let's start here. Okay It's a Sunday in late february nineteen ninety six And we're in Los Angeles Chinatown It's about eight hundred forty five PM and residents hear something that sounds like firecrackers. then make a horrifying discovery in the garage of a small apartment building Neighbors find the body of a beloved fixture in Los Angeles' Cambodian community and in the Cambodian community worldwide. He had been shot getting out of his car pololice will ultimately decide was a robbery gone wrong, but this will remain up for debate The reason for this is that the man who had been killed had been a vocal critic of Cambodia's government and a survivor of the genocidal pullpot regime. And just to give you some numbers, that led to the deaths of an estimated one point five to three million people, which was a quarter of the country's population. Wow. This man had been a doctor, a forced laborer, a refugee, a community advocate, and in a surprise turn, Oscar winning actor In fact, he was the first person of Asian heritage to win the award. Wow. May is AAPI Heritage Month and this is the story of the amazing life, brave actions and tragic death of Hang Nor. Wow. The main source for the story is a documentary called The Killing Fields of Dr. Hang S. Nor E can't recommend it enough. It tells you so much information. Also, you should watch the killing fields. It's incredible. He plays a Cambodian journalist, right, you know I'm talking about. like the main character. Bically. So the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. I've been wanting to do the story for so long, but I just wanted to make sure I did it right. and I really want to thank Ali Elkin, my researcher for doing such an incredible job of putting this together for me Nice. Hangnor is born into a reasonably well to do family in Cambodia. His father has several agricultural businesses owning both rice fields and lumber yards. He's born in nineteen forty and his family lives in the countryside. So they are just living this traditional life that their families have for generations in the agricultural business. They're not really far out from Penom Pen, the capital city their life is just kind of a peaceful everyday life. For all of Hang's life, there is some degree of political unrest in Cambodia, and all of it is stirred up to varying extents by Western colonialism. So he's born under French colonial rule in a land that is still called at the time French Indochina which also includes modern day Laos in Vietnam. And throughout his childhood, there's a guerrilla effort to overthrow the French colonizers Hang's family at times is caught up in the middle of this. His parents had been kidnapped for ransom by corrupt members of both sides of this conflict On multiple occasions. W. So that's what everyday life is like. Multiple kidnapping. Yes Part of the reason for this is that Hang's father is ethnically Chinese and his mother is part of the Cambodian ethnic majority, which is the Kumir. So they are each victimized in turn for different reasons. But this is ultimately a low level inconvenience in comparison to what happens later in Cambodia's history. As a teenager, Hang moves to Penom Pen to try to shelter from all this unrest in the countryside. He's very, very smart, like top of his class. He eventually goes to medical school and while he's there He meets a fellow student named Huoi and she's training to become a teacher and they fall in love. This is so truncated. Yeah. the documentary is incredible. Hang becomes a gynecologist and in this time period, Cambodia becomes indpend and under the leadership of a monarch who then becomes an elected leader. And at the same time, in the late sixties and early seventies, the Vietnam war begins, and eventually the United States conducts a brutal bombing campaign on parts of Cambodia along the border with Vietnam. And so Alli added this famous quote in the research from Anthony Bourdain That says, quote, Once you've been to Cambodia, you'll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands. You will never again be able to open a newspaper and read about that treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scum bag sitting down for a nice chat with Charlie Rose or attending some black Thie affair for a new glossy magazine without choking. Witness what Henry did to Cambodia, the fruits of his genius for statesmanship, and you'll never understand why he's not sitting in the dock at the Hague next to Milosevich end quote, As in fucking war crimes. Everybody knows this already, but I just want to say it again, the loss of a mind and a spirit like Anthony Bourdain, where he is a speaker of truth to power in that way. There's not enough guys like that anymore where they're like, no fuck you end the truth times twenty. Yeah L this might hurt my career Yeah, but I'm actually Palest. is yes, exactly. This is what we are supposed to be doing here totally. Why are we pretending that this isn't disgusting? Exactly. So thank you to Alie for including that. So with this in the background in nineteen seventy, when Hang is thirty years old and a practicing physician and he just has this like kind of normal life. He's got friends, he's got family, he's got this girlfriend he loves, he's a doctor. He has this mentality that everything is fine and the waring is going to come to a truce. And like so many people just pretends like it's going to affect him and doesn't pay attention to it at all. At this place, this is when Cambodia's government is overthrown in a coup. So Cambodia's prime minister is a man named Norodam Sanak, and he had originally been appointed king by the French. and then led Cambodia to independence and abdicated his position, then wasn elected by an overwhelming majority. So people seem pretty happy with this. But then he goes out of town And there is a coup that is orchestrated by two government officials who are his opponents. And they only had support from a small minority of Cambodian elites, but some believe they were aided by the Americans, probably true. So these officials take over. They allow the Americans to invade the southern border with Vietnam to force out North Vietnamese fighters And the influx of American money into Cambodia ushers in a time of prosperity for some, including Hang's father, who buys a second lumber mill. But in the countryside, Pooorer and more rural Cambodians are coalescing their support around Sianok, now in exile in China who has been he'd always been beloved. peopleeople believed that he was appointed by God or that he was a God. And behind this unlikely ally to the countryside and porer Cambodians is the leader of Cambodia's Communist Party P pot. Here we are. hereere we are. Okay. This group becomes the Kumer Rouge. They are actually ethnically Kummer and then Rouge, I think means red, right? So red is communist. So in nineteen seventy five, the Cmmer Rouge, under the leadership of Plepot But with the encouragement of Senk marches into Penom Pen and deposes the new government. They take over. The regular Cambodians who are there are kind of rejoicing thinking that finally the Kumera Rouge are going to bring some kind of peace and normality and quickly learn that's not true. It's a big part of the movie the Killing Fields. Right. So the Kumer Rouge launch a new ultra authoritarian communist regime that they nickname year zero. Like shit is over everything you thought you knew done The idea is that the country is starting from scratch and educated people and professionals are specifically targeted to be killed or imprisoned. So it basically beces this ultra ultra communist ry and lifestyle, all private property is outlawed. Every aspect of life is dictated by the Pulpot regime. There's no such thing as private property. there's no money. You can't even have your own cooking utensils and make yourself food. You have to eat in the big groups because everyone is equal. You can't wear glasses, husbands and wives are separated, children are separated. Its just becomes this Pison be There's no money, there are no clocks or calendars. citizens are just assigned to labor details, and non Kres especially become forced laborers. So they're all sent out of the big cities back into the countryside to work Allie wrote, No to Georgia. It feels important to mention that this vision of communism is often used as a reason why we shouldn't have any kind of socialized systems like healthcare, but this is authoritarianism. And whenever its ideology is communist or fascist, it can result in similar violence and wiping out of civil liberties Yeah. So thank you, Alie for noting that. Yeah. You put authoritarianism on really anything. R. It turns into that exact same thing. So when all of this had begun, as I said, Hang is a doctor. and at that moment that everything gets changed, he is operating on a patient Kmer Rouge storm the clinic that he's in. One operative holds a gun to his head and asks him if he is the attending physician, which he is. But as I said, any educated professionals are wiped out. So he lies and says the attending had just stepped out of the room esssentially posing as a lower level clinic staffer, which saves his life. He can't tell anyone he's a doctor. He's then caught up in a forced evacuation from Penom Pen and is separated from his girlfriend, Hoi and his family, separated from everyone. So Hang lies about being a doctor since educated people are automatically just being killed Hang, like most other people, is assigned to an agricultural labor detail in which he is required to push a plow through fields. That is a job that livestock would have primarily done. And they just put people on the like oxen cart to push through the fields. They turned the whole country into slave labor. sllave labor. Yeah. During this period, between one point five and three million people are killed in Cambodia through execution, starvation, and disease Hang is tortured on multiple occasions, usually for stealing food because he's starving On one occasion, he's tied to a tree overnight and he's bitten all over his body by red ants. And on another occasion, he and multiple other forced laborers are put on crucifixes bare feet over smoldering fires and he watches as a pregnant woman who is being punished the same way die while this is happening. And in the documentary, he is interviewed in the states about what happened what that was like and he gets into some really gory details in front of this audience and it's just horrible but it's so incredible that he is brave enough to tell the awful things that they did to people. When they werere being punished like this, what was the justification? Do you know, L what was the point of putting those people up on crucifixes? They stole food. This is your punishment, but this is also a lesson to everybody everyone that this is what happens because everyone is equal. they get the same amount of food If you're stealing food, you think you're better than the government, you think you know more punish Crucifixion. Yeah Hang eventually does reunite with Hoi, who becomes pregnant There's already not enough food to sustain someone who isn't pregnant and Hui begins to starve. When she's seven months along, she goes into early labor Obviously, there's no way to get her any kind of medical attention And there's no medicine, there's no equipment. and here's the thing King is a trained gynecologist and he could have operated, attempted to save her though he has no safe tools or medicine, but the operation would likely kill her. He knew that. She was going to die either way. If he attempted to save her, he would out himself as a doctor So he couldn't do anything. tooy dies in his arms and the baby dies too After Hooy dies, Hang actively tries to get killed. He just does in a fucking. I mean, the guilt horror of that like when you're in a survival situation like that and you're just having to make these calls that are And I feel like there's so many people like when we learn about Vietnam and Cambodia, it's like that's what their lives were like always. they were used to it. And I think people need to remember that that's not the case. Like that it's the exact same thing as that that startorted happening to us right now Like the horror that if you saw a pregnant woman tortured It's not like you've been seeing that since you were a child, you're used to it, which I think is sometimes the justification in people's minds that it's like not as bad somehow. I feel like anytime that is what's coming out of your mouth. Right. That's what Yeah, yeah, you have to. What are you talking about? R? What are you talking about? And also just the oppression, that level of extreme and just like oppression as far as the ee can see is such a hopeless horrible situation to be. I really don't think I would try to survive. I really don't think I would. I mean, I've thought about it so many times with like you know, the Holocaust, too. It's like, I don't think I'd be al I think I'd be down. You say that. Right That'sff. You say that. But then rememember the guy that basically ran away from the Nazis and had to keep running for like four months or something Yeah. Like that's a human survival instinct. Yeah. That's what you do. And if you can get away, you do get away and then you keep going. And then you build from there and then you get used to being scared, and then you help other people that are scared. And I mean, that's what every immigrant story really is. Seriously, you don't want them win Yeah, you go through the real shit and then you come back and help other people go through shit. Right veryer, very dismissive of an experience I am two generations away from. Yeah and have no idea in terms of what you are talking about, it is like it's You you notice this is going sound so cororny, but like generational trauma, right? We all know that's a thing that's passed down. But the fact that we're alive means there was also generational like Hutzbah. Yeah. Meaning as they were traumatized, they stayed alive and kept living and lived long enough to fall in love and have children and that's why we're alive We have generational trauma for sure. Yeah, but we also have whatever the fuck it was, the Hitzbah that kept them alive too. And a perfect source of real gratitude. Yeah for every day So Hi dies and Hang is over life. He steals food at every opportunity just trying to get killed, essentially. But somehow he makes it until nineteen seventy eight when the Vietnamese invade Cambodia. This sets off a decade of warfare between the Kumer Rouge and the Vietnamese. Now that there's the chaos of fighting to distract the Kummer Rouge, Hang has an opportunity to escape. With a large group, he travels to the Thailand border. Out of the two hundred people that escape with his group, only seventeen people make it alive across the Thaail border. The only living relative or person he knows at that point is his young niece named Sophia, and they escape together. Once in Bangkok, Hang works as a volunteer doctor at a refugee camp. So despite all of these fucking horrors that he's gone through, all this PTSD, he still becomes doesn't have to do anything but survive. but instead, he volunteers to be a doctor at this refugee camp. I bet you there was part of him that was just like, I finally get to be a doctor. that' ye made for My skills and like actually do something about this horror that I'm surrounded by. Totally. Hing takes the only thing he has is a photo of Huoi. And when he escapes, he has it professionally colorized and puts it into a custom gold locket wears that around his neck so she can be close to his heart at all times. And then he and his young niece, Sophia move to the United States So Hang and Sopfia, who's a teenager now settle in Los Angeles in nineteen eighty Almost their entire family, in addition to Hooy, had been killed by the Humer Rouge. He trains to take his board so that he can practice medicine and works as a volunteer with refugees So right around this time, and this is just he could have lived the rest of his life out like that. but for some reason, fate intervened and this banana' thing happens to him Right around the same time, director Ronald Joffee is preparing to make the film The Killing Fields. It's based on the true accounts of two journalists, one a Cambodian named Darth Pran, and one an American named Siddney Shanberg. And they had written the book The Killing Fields. And so the casting director Pat Golden is working really hard to find the perfect person to play this. and hasn't had any luck. So she somehow finagles her way into a Cambodian wedding in order to scout for her actor. Brilliant.. And this is where she discovers Hang. And he is just seems like a really charming, happy person. He's smiling and laughing a lot, despite everything that happened to him. He's very outgoing and gregarious. He says when he was a kid he was hyperactive and he's just really likeable. And so something about him catches her eye It had never crossed Hang's mind to be an actor In Cambodia, at the time, actors are not particularly well paid or respected But he decides to go on an audition and just have a good time with it. He's like, here's a weird opportunity to have in my life. Let's do it. And there's a video of his audition. and a man is a survivor of concentration campps. Right. He's just like, sure. Yes. And he blows everyone away with his raw emotion. And when you watch the documentary and you watch this audition, you completely get it and you see that what he did is just took himself back to his actual pain and the actual things he experienced of the story that he is telling in this movie It wasn't a hard stretch for him. Yeah. and he's able to do it. And so he's cast in the movie along with Sam Waterston, our laaw and Order. You know, the greatest man The greatest actor ever to live, the greatest man ever to live. Here's a photo of them from the Killing Fields. I a young sami. I. I know. Damn. It's such an incredible movie. Like I get full metal jacket, but this is the movie that you should watch. Also just looking at his face, he had to go to a reenactment of a thing he actually lived through Totally. And he just said he channeled it the whole time. And also he was Telling them what it was really like the whole time. Wow. On set, Hang has that same access to all his very real emotions and experiences, and he's able to consult with the actors who hadn't had direct experiences with the Cumer Rouge. When the movie comes out in nineteen eighty four, it bears the brutal truth of the Cumer Rouge regime to the world, and Hang is considered a frontrner for the best supportpping actor Oscar. and you know who he beat for B supporting actor. Somebody like Robert Duvall John Malkovich. Oh She's also in this movie by John Malkovich, like one of the greatest trained actors of all time. and he wins. And so that year's Oscars are held at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, which is downtown and Hang and Sophia live in Chinatown. So they're like able to see they walk home change their clothes. back They arere not in Beverly fucking Hills or Brentwood. Yes. So they vastly underestimate how long it's going to take them to get there in Oscar traffic because they're like, it's five minutes away. won't take as long They just barely make it on time and they didn't realize that the Supporting Actor awward is the first presented award that night. So when they're announcing the nominees, they have to put a photo of him up because he's not even in his seat yet. Like they can't pand to his seatat. literally that late. And as he's walking in his name gets called and he walks straight in and up to the fucking podium and gives like the speech will make you cry it' so beautiful Here's a photo of him winning. Oh it's just such a beautiful moment. You can tell he's so humbled by this opportunity to show what happened to his people. Yeah And that's such a representative of like the Oscars is the world kind of. Right. And so that it's like underwld. Yeah. Yeah. And he brought his niece along, I think she was fifteen at the time, and she was a tomboy and he said to her, you need to a dress and she's like I't want She goes anyways. She's in the documentary. So in his acceptance speech, he says, quote, This is unbelievable, but so is my entire life. I wish to thank all members of the Motion Picture Academy for this great honor. I thank David Putnam, Roland Joffey for giving me this chance to act for the first time in the killing Fields, and I share this award to my friend, Sam Watterson Pran Syidney Shamberg and also Pat Golden, the casting lady who found me for this role. And I thank Warner Brothers for helping me tell the story to the world. Let the world know what happened in my country. And I thank God, Buddha, that tonight I'm even here I'm not giving what it deserves.. Well, you're not supposed to do it. That's okay. that's supp to feel Oh. No, but I mean, just everything about that is such a especially back then when it was like the time of our tours. I mean, I remember seeing the killing fields on Ciskal and Ebert on the weekend because of course, my parents always watch that where I wass like, ooh, that's heavy I don't think I could watch that, whatever why I'm always like. And that took over the Zeitgeist essentially that year and everyone paid attention. Totally. I mean, there were so many incredible movies coming out at the time Brokesprit really says a lot about All of it. Go to hell, John Malkovich That's sorry mess. podcast. if there's any mess. Oh my go. Dag, we love you He's not here. He's not here. so mad. Yeah, but our friend was gonna to tell him I'm sure they're friend Paul Pul on, he's got to be friends with the fucking. those powerful character actors that know each other. Yeah, they must. come on Okay, so Hang gets more roles, but he also really dedicates himself to telling the world what happened in his country. He uses his fame to get the message and goes on a lot of talk shows. At this point in the late eighties and through the nineties, no one from the Kmer Rouge has been punished and their predecessors continue to hold power in the Cambodian government, Though the extreme and genocidal policies have been walked a bit Pulpot goes into hiding. Hang testifies before Congress about his experiences and is an extremely outspoken critic of the Cambodian government. At one speaking engagement, he notes the brutality portrayed in the killing fields, then saying, quote, The killing fields isn't bad enough suuffering enough, bloody enough, end quote.. He does this work prolifically through the first half of the nineties. He's actively speaking out against the current Cambodian government. which again, has vestiges of the old Kummer Rouge. In the wake of the fall of Western communism, Cambodia is in a period of transition with some unrest though nothing like what he had seen. And Sanoak is still influential and somehow evades blame for the Cumer Rouge, even though he had lent his support to it So this brings us back to the night that Hang is killed outside his Los Angeles apartment building in nineteen ninety six. And this is like I remember hearing about this and it's just he what the things he survived will never understand and he comes to it's just Like I remember feeling shame. We did this to him after what he survived. like our country my city did this to him. You know So Hang had been shot and he's found lying next to his car with his Rolex watch missing But there's two thousand nine hundred dollars in cash undisturbed in his car. And the immediate impression in the news and among Hang's neighbors is that he had been targeted by allies of the Cambodian government because of his outspoken criticism. They immediately knew he was trying to be silenced. Other people raised the possibility that organized crime could be involved since Hang had several business interests in Cambodia including his family lumber yard, which he still had. So it's a surprise to everyone when three young men, all Asian American and all affiliated with a gang, are charged with Hang's murder All three men maintained that they had been about a mile away at the time of Hang's death. At trial, prosecutors say that the men had demanded Hang's lock it with the picture of Hoi in it that he still wore and that he had refused to give it up, and this is why they killed him. That was the prosecution's story People take issue with this argument because Hang's pockets were thought to have been undisturbed and there's two thousand nine hundred dollars left in his car All three men are found guilty on april eighteenth, nineteen ninety eight, the same day Pol Pot dies in exile in the jungle on the Thai Cambodian border. Wow. yeah. After Hang's death, Dith Pran, the journalist upon whose story the Killing Fields is based, says, quote He's like a twin with me. He's my co messenger, and right now I'm alone end quote There are no trials for members of the Khmer Rouge until the early twenty tenens when the UN holds them alongside the Cambodian government Three high ranking officials are sentenced to life in prison. During one of these trials, the official says that Hang Nor's murder had been ordered by the Kumer Rouge as retribution for his speaking out against the regime An organization called the Innocence Center has taken up the case of one of the three men who had been convicted of his murder. After the release of the killing fields, Hang had said, quote If I die from now on, okay, this film will go on for a hundred years. That is the story of the life and legend of Cambodian American truth teller and hero, Hang Nor How You know, I almost did it at our LA live show, but I was like It's too heavy. It's so heavy I mean, but it's incredible. It's like that's what makes it like All of that and then you walk straight into the Oscars and win. What a life beyond. I mean. What an incredible life. What a strong person and what a great example for Asian American Pacific Islander Heritage Month? Yes I mean, it is wor're talking about. is That's a great example of someone who's like been through an absolute governmental nightmare, basically the fabric of reality falling apart around him trying to just dying and losing everything. dy being murdered. Being murdered and then being an immigrant where he just builds and builds and builds and builds. And then comes back to do something about it. Totally.esn't just move on with his life. Incredible. Yeah. So Hang Nor Summers for adventures, road trips and adding a whole lot of miles to your car. That's why it's worth stopping at Valvalinee Instant oil change first. If you need an oil change, make the smart stop at Valvalinee Instant oil change before you hit the highway. 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Goodebye Well, we are going to take a left turn. Please. I don't wantan to surprise you, but this is also based on the Dead Kennedy song That's not true at all. And it's actually maybe the complete other end of the spectrum. This story is the main story. If you were a kid in the nineties and in elementary school, a teacher read you a book about a family of pioneers. They and bears. Close. It's called Apples to Oregon by a writer named Deborah Hopkinson And it follows an eighteen hundreds Midwestern family in their Westward journey And it is loosely based on the life of a successful horticulturalist who's also known as the Johnny Applesseeed of the West. Oh yeah. There's the story of his life. After all his pioneering days were over and his fruit trees were planted, he went into a different branch of life. He attempted to start what's been described as a doomed Quaker sex cult dear This is the story of horticulturalist Henderson Luelling Okay. Are you ready? I'm so ready. Okay, main sources used for today's story are reporting by Finn JD John from the offffbeat Oregon website, writing by Heather Art Anderson from Portland Monthly, and archival editions of the Iowa Journal of History and the Sacramento Be Y favorite newspaper. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So Henderson Lelling's story begins in eighteen oh nine when he was born to a Quaker family in North Carolina. So this is one of those eighteen hundred stories that there's spotty reporting on some stuff. It's back far enough that it's like we're pretty sure that he blank, blank, blank. There's a lot of that kind of storytelling histor. It's very prehistoric in that it is like pioneer era life. right. Not a lot of when you're out on the prairie fighting for your life, not a lot of diary dpping.. Not a lot of daily there's not a lot of journaling. Not lot of sources to find the truth. We needed more scrapbooking back then We're vlogging or Oh my god, just a vlogging on a nice stone outside of town down by the river. Okay, so when Henderson is in his teens, he and his family and many other southern Quakers moved to Indiana, likely influenced by the Quaker community's growing opposition to slavery. So they wanted to get out of the south. And when they move to Indiana, Henderson's father opens a nursery and he and his brothers help It's the family business. He helps run it. He will later marry another Carolina born Quaker. Her name is Elizabeth Preresnell And when he's in his twenties, Henderson opens his own nursery. So this is a story for Janet. Oh my God, my mom would love this. She loves horticulture.'uch a horticulture. In the eighteen thirties, when Henderson is in his thirties, because he was born around eighteen hundred. He moves west again to easastern Iowa. So this is after the Black Hawk War, and the federal government had forcibly removed both the soock and the fox tribes from their land. and now they were actively encouraging white settlers to come and basically settle that land by selling it to them for next to nothing. So the Lellings benefit from that And they settle in Salem, Iowa. Again, Henderson opens a nursery. He offers high quality seedlings and grafted trees. So I know you know this because you're Janet's daughter, but grafting is when you take the roots from a strong tree and you attach them to the shoot or a bud from another tree so that the produce is really good fruit. Y Frankensteining fruit trees essentially in God It's what you did all summer, every summer. So as more settlers arrive in Salem, virtually all of them become Henderson's customers because this is basically like they're settling this land and planting it. brilliant or you know whether or not it was intentional, he's in this business that is always needed Yeah. Like no matter what, there's a demand for basically being able to grow your own food. Yeah. So Henderson's grafted trees reliably generates so many cherries, apples, pears, plums, and peaches that per one source, quote the local market could not absorb the yield Wow. So he's making it possible for everybody to live large. So his business is a massive success, and he and Elizabeth take this prosperity and they invest it into their home, but not in the way that you would think. notot the usual pioneer luxuries, red velvet curtains. so Instead, they build trapdoors and hiding places and then offer it as a stop on the underground railroad. Wow, because they are Quakers.. Today, that house is on the National Register of Historical Places The problem is that when Lu Wellelling's church learns that they are doing this for the people searching for freedom that way, they do not approve of it.. Very Joel Austein of them. So Henderson decides that he's going to leave that church and start his own church that is more full throated in its condemnation of slavery. So at some point in the eighteen forties, he opens the doors to his new place called Atilavery Friends That's what he names his church, straightforward. J like put the banner right over the front door, peopleeople will come. And they did. So now he has a successful business, he has a happy family, and he has the glowing respect of his community But he wants more as they always do. So he literally guys guys stop it. They can't help it Especially if they read pamphlets, which was the vlogging of the Pioneer days So Henderson reads some pamphlets about the Lewis and Clark expedition that went from eighteen oh four to eighteen oh six, I say as if I knew that. And he finds it all very romantic, the adventure and the discovery. More importantly, he learns that despite the fact that the Pacific Northwest has very fertile land, it doesn't have a variety of high quality fruit trees growing there. So instead of settling into the life that he's built in Iowa, he starts thinking about starting it all over again in the Pacific Northwest. No one can understand why he would want to give up everything and start over in an unfamiliar place for a third time, but to me, there's his trauma right there. He now needs to keep on doing it. Yeah. That's how he's in control But Henderson will tell a friend, quote, It makes no difference how much a man has around him. If he is not satisfied, he will go off and leave it So in April of eighteen forty seven, thirty nine year old Henderson and his wife and their eight children, along with several other pioneering Iowans set out in a wagon train for the two thousand mile journey to Oregon. too many. think someomeone's pregnant and like just having the worst time of her life Keep going and it's hot or it's cold or it's middle You've always got a bonnet on What is So the Luelling party consists of four wagons total, but Henderson has filled one of those wagons with seven hundred saplings and grafted trees so he can start his new nursery in Oregon. Author Heather Art Anderson writes, quote, It was an insane plan with little chance of success. Everyone mocked him for it. He did it anyway. Those mockers So the Bwing family makes the brutal westward journey across the Missouri River over the Rocky Mountains. So they've got their pioneer wagon. Some of these trees are stretching out of the pioneer wagon like four feet. That's so clunky and so bad for that kind of travel. It requires constant upkeep. It's also filled with soil Like the trees are planted in back of the wagon.ight. So it's incredibly heavy.. There's genuine concern that Henderson's oxen are going to give out under this wagon's weight. meembers of the wagon train repeatedly suggest that he ditches nursery wagon. No no, that's the whole point. That's the whole point. But else they're just like, come on, come on. There's trees everywhere, which you have to admit be like Bring a big wagon of dirt just be like, we have to bring this good is the dirt. This is the Iowa dirt. Henderson is committed And seven months, very long months after leaving Iowa in November of eighteen forty seven, the Luellings finally arrive in Oregon's Willamet Valley Agst all odds, the trees and saplings make it too. I've been there. It's so gorgeous. How beautiful. Yeah, That's where all the good stuff is So they settle just south of Portland. Henderson immediately gets to work clearing his property of the large fir trees that are on it so that he can lay out his nursery, which will end up being another huge success. And it will be the first grafted tree nursery on the Pacific coast. It seems like I'm really end up being an arborist or something. and it's just part of this story I'm gonna pretend like I am just super into trees Just pretend like that's always been my personality all the way up until this point. Definitely, you're a tree influencer. Yeah. everyveryone knows that. That's when you find out that I've been dating a guy that's really into trees. And then suddenly I am, too you. That's so hot. Just a big tree guy. A lumberjat. some sort of a, I don't know, landscaper of some kind. Sure. But point of all of this is This man had a career. He also had a very strong spiritual life. He was living in his very settled ways in many ways. But then in eighteen fifty one, his thirty five year old wife, Elizabeth, the mother of his now ten children Jes, dies of complications during her eleventh pregnancy So some speculate that this loss changes him with one Lewelling family historian writing, quote, his life sort of fell apart and he was adrift without an anchor, seeking for something to fill that void and never finding it. E quote. So Henderson, Lewelling is grieving, but he is also in the most prosperous area of his life, producing and selling sought after trees that help build up Portland's settler economy But of course, he wants more. And that's when he learns that down in California's mining towns, there's such a huge demand for reliable, high quality fruit trees that people will pay one eighteen fifties dollar for an apple tree seedling But essentially, today's seedlings in today's twenty twenty six money cost ten dollars. Oh wow. So that's how you know it's just basically the seller's market in the California mining towns.. So Henderson is now in his mid forties. He sells his Oregon business to a family member and he heads south in eighteen fifty four. He winds up in the Bay Area and establishes a major nursery that he names frruitvale in property that has since been absorbed into the city of Oakland. You know Fruitvale station, which is the infamous train station where the shooting took place. So Fruitvale was a big part of the city of Oakland's kind of establishment. And Henderson is in the center of it cultivating hundreds of thousands of fruit trees, apricots, grapes, apples, cherries, all to be planted throughout California One write upp notes, quote, A, Henderson was in no small measure responsible for the beginning of the great fruit industry of another Pacific Coast state, an industry which has brought more wealth to California than all the gold the state has produced. I grew up in Orange County, I was aware of it as a young child. I mean, everywhere And it's kind of funny because then when you fly up to the Pacific Northwest, like one of the first things you hear about are like the Marion Berries or the, you know like all of that produce and farmland that's in the Willam Valley. Totally. So once he gets to California though, Henderson kind of starts going through a reinvention. He's perfectly middle aged. He's a widower. He's been working his ass off all his life. and he's been a quQuaker, but now he's crossing paths with radical thinkers, including people who are in his own Quaker community, but that are now experimenting with new belief systems like the utopian movement, which was the idea that a perfect society could exist, or the free love movement, which posits that marriage is oppressive and sexist and that sexual norms should be looser or the alternative health movements like vegetarianism where people followed it for both health reasons and moral reasons or they moralized it. And of course, it's the eighteen fifties so you gott to have spiritualism. I's wondering yeah. Yeah, it's right in there, the belief that the living can contact the dead. There's a ton of overlap in all these ideas. They're all zeitgeist, particularly in the Bay Area, which even then had a reputation for being open minded. So it's easy to see why Luelling finds all of this to be appealing as a fierce abolitionist. The idea of liberating people from unjust institutions is important to him. And then the idea of personal liberation is a central tenant in the free love movement He's also kind of a single guy out there like, Hey, what about? What if this was cool? To the average pioneer, vegetarianism might seem weird, but it's a long held Quaker tradition, so it's not weird to him. And of course, Henderson would embrace spiritualism while coping with the death of his wife And that is kind of the gateway to the broader idea of utopia, where society and the self are things that can be harmonized, brought into harmony.. But at that point, this is where things go very far away from the Johnny apppples seed kind of folk hero stuff and into stranger terrain. becausecause now it's the late eighteen fifties Henderson's in his late forties. He either starts this group or he links up with this San Francisco based group called the Harmonial Brotherhood. And there are sources that say he started it, but it isn't totally clear. But basically, there's no intricate day in day out details of the harmonial brrotherhood But what we do know is it's made up of about twenty people, men, women, and children, and many of them come from Quaker backgrounds. and now they subscribe to a blend of spiritualist, utopian and free love beliefs, just like him. F, right? And plums Also, in the pursuit of personal quote harmony, they follow strict vegetarian diet, they swear off caffeine and they favor spiritualism adjacent treatments of the day like hydropathy. Basically baths, raps, cold plunges. Honestly, it sounds way better than some of the movements in religious fucking evangelicals from back then. Hell yes. It sounds like goo I mean, am I wrong or They're definitely right about a lot of it and kind of right headed about a lot of it. But what usually happens? You know, Jim Jones comes along. There's always someomeone with transition lenses is gonna fucking ruin your utopia So the Brotherhood's hydropathy practitioner is a man who is either a spiritualist preacher or a blacksmith, depending on who you're reading. do both. And he also was once a circus performer, so he can do it all. Definitely. The one thing he's not trained as is a formal medical physician, and yet he is referred to as doctor Tyler or doctor T. And he's the one that the water treatments are all coming from doctor T. So there's an idea that doctor T kind of started this group because he's got all the treatments and the things that he's as they're spiritual together, he's the one that's like, but I can actually lay some hands on and make some changes. So The Brotherhood shares a dream of men and women living as equals in a state of excellent physical and spiritual health in a free love utopia entnterering and exiting relationships at willill, or as Heather Art Anderson, the writer puts it, quote, an individual's rights to bang anyone they fancicy. She wrote that? Yeah Because essentially that's what they're doing. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like the worst life I've ever heard on this podcast. No, and also at this time, there were other US based religious groups doing exactly the same thing. It's possible that they heard about the ONIidDA community in upstate New York, which was established in the eighteen forties and remained as a utopian free love Christian sect for decades Famously manufacturing the kitchenware you might have in your home rightown. Fucking right. You covered that, right? No, actually, I didn't because Marn then writes note to Karen. Oida could be fun to someday cover. Oh my God. doing it, Dibbs. Okay But as progressive as a place like San Francisco can be, it's not remote or rural upstate New York. And so the Brotherhood's values are far too radical for the average Joe down on Market Street. They realize that to live out their utopian vision, they're going to have to go somewhere more isolated, no prying eyes. where they can build their new society and peace. It's weird It is like a footprint, like a blueprint for Jim Johns. It follows the trajectory of a cult. Yeah, ye. And so this is where Henderson steps up and steps in. He's the richest member of this brotherhood. And of course, he's willing to sink all of his fruit tree money into this cause.. If you think about all the risks he's taken, he's completed multiple cross country trips and reinvented himself like three times. So and it's always worked. Why would he not think he could do this? So he sells the bulk of his California business and pours his money into a big schooner. He buys the boat himself. and then he buys a fifty thousand acre sparsely populated volcanic island off of Honduras called Tiger Island. This is soim This is so yeah, people's temple. Yeah, exactly. A lot of people are caught off guard by Henderson's deep entanglement with the harmonial Brotherhood, none more than his new wife, Mary, who's been kept out of the loop on this whole Honduras utopia plan from the beginning She is not invited Oh So she's not in it she's not invightited Yeah. Yeah, really. So when she learns that her husband is about to abandon her, knowing that she will be left destitute, she tries to have him committed. And that actually is phrased very like it's one to the other, but there's also the chance she's been living with this man who's increasingly wearing transition lenses inside the house. and so she knows maybe something needs to be done. Right. It might not just be because might feel legit. Yeah, exactly. She might not just be covering her ass, but we'll never know. And the thing is, the courts agree with her and the police are dispatched to go find him, but Henderson is two steps ahead of everybody. He's gone into hiding until october eighth, eighteen fifty nine, when the harmonial Brotherhood schooner sets sail out of San Francisco with nine male members, five female ones, and six or seven children on board Goodbye. Bye guys, But Henderson's not on board.. He's actually watching the schooner from shore and once it sails into the bay and then passes the place that the Golden Gate Bridge once will be, he waits to see if any boats come up and try to arrest anybody on it. Once he sees that that doesn't happen, he gets onto a smaller boat and under the cover of midnight and moonlight Boards the schooner undetected out in the open ocean. Smart move. It's pretty cool. O incredibly paranoid. So now they're sailing for Honduras. The boats crewed by hired sailors, not members of the harmonial Brotherhood. And those sailors quickly realize this is going to be a weird ride and they will later give statements, they're the reasons that we know What was happening on this trip. And so their statements to reporters shape what we know, essentially. For example, living conditions on board are physically miserable with passengers eventually being quote, more or less covered with vermin. Maybe they didn't know how to stock the ship or pack vegetables. They had so many vegetables Yeah Also, tensions over food escalate very quickly because they're vegetarian, it's a tough reality at sea. Their onboard diet consists mostly of quote coarse flour apparently ground up with chuff, straw and all, and very much resembling cattle feed Chaff is that outer husk that you sometimes get stuck in your teeth waral. Oh, only, Oh yeah, ye. L the Odi part sure Basically, they are starving on this ship. So then when they stop at ports along the way, some members get caught Dietary cheating. Oh shit, give me up bacon. Exactly, buying salted pork and game meat. ' that's exactly what I'd go for. Eactly. You get a big hunk of beef jerky. chew on it for nils a night. You're just chewing on it. The people who do this are caught red handed and then heated arguments break out among the brethren becausecause not only are you hoarding food, but it's against your beliefs and it's not hot So the biggest rift on this ship about food is known as the egg bar And it starts in Oaxaca, Mexico. When a merchant swindles both doctor T and Henderson, his con involves eight chicken eggs. Basically, Henderson sees him with the eggs, he runs up and says, I'll take all of them. The seller sells him the eight eggs and takes his money, and then Henderson runs away to go get a container to put the eggs in. And while he's away, doctor T walks up and says, I want all eight of those eggs. And the guy's like, sounds goodun No communication. No communication. He sells them a second time and then disappears when Henderson comes back with his u handfulull of straw or whatever it is that he found to carry the eggs in, he sees Dr. T holding them and they start fighting over which one of them actually owns these eggs. We've all been there. sure. The Great Egg War But with these guys, they can't just work it out. They can't go like, Ah, we both were scamed. Swindled. This is what it's like, know out on the open seas. Instead, they resent each other for days Culminating in an all hands meeting on the ship. they're little bitches both of them. Yeah. And it's like everybody's fighting and it's ruining the crewise for the rest of us. It's ruining the vibe. The vibes are off. The vibes are so off so they have a staff meeting, an all hands meeting on the Ledo deck. And Henderson tells the group, God wants him to have the egg. W sett Who knew? Did they ever say that on Realhouse wives? God wants me to have the eggs. So this fight is over. But apparently this works. Henderson winds up with the eggs and the only reason we believe it is because at this same meeting, doror T vows to get Revenge over eggs. they haven't even landed on the island yet and things are that bad. So Clearly the two vegetarian free love alpha males are vying for control over the schooner and the spirit of the group itself. As they do. As they seem to always want to do. Dror T is a blacksmith. Henderson is a rich pioneer. Who will win? Lay your bets It takes them several months to finally arrive at Tiger Island. so several more months of that life and that strife I have bars. So when the schooner's crew is finally cut loose, they run to the reporters, describing the journey as a free love hell H No such thing. You think those words wouldn't go together. But hey, and on a boat And these are sailors. It's the first swinger's cruise Uh And the sailors are just like the wait staff forced to stand by in the rented community. They know all the gossip because like they're just like in the background of everything God. just not into it. They keep walking into the supply galley. Everyone's fucking back there. Sorry, don't let your kids listen to this episode. And they also document the hypocrisy among the supposedly sexually liberated group members, mentioning a specific incident at another port in Mexico where a male member of the Brotherhood happens to end up at the same stream where the female members are skinny dipping. O bathing. I mean, they had been on a boat for months and m. Dr. T shows up and becomes so irate that this other man has just seen his wife naked that he quote threatened to break every bone in his body So chill. So the bllacksmith turned water doctor seems like maybe not Always okay. Or he's like me where when his blood sugar gets low, he threatens to kill him. Wh is the whole time because they're starving. They can't have any sugar