The Murder of Alan Ririg

This is exactly right Summmer is for adventures, road trips, and adding a whole lot of miles to your car. That's why it's worth stopping at Valvaline Instant Oil Change first. Their train techs help you get road trip ready with an oil change and an eighteen point maintenance check included with every oil change, checking your tire pressure, wipers, lights and more. Valvaline Instant Oil change checks complete over two hundred seventy hours of training, so your car' in capable hands. Best part, you can stay in your car and you're in and out in about fifteen minutes. Valine Instant Oil Change Change wisely. Goodbye The Trayal Weekly is back with brand news stories from threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town. It was from an unknown number Who else is getting these messages? Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities? Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed a word she said Listen to betrayal Weekly on the IiHart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Danny Shapiro These are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the fourteenth season of Family Secrets He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to seeason fourteen of Family Secrets on the IiHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts Hello, it's me Anna Sinfield, the host of the Girlfriends. I'm back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriends spotlight I'm going to clim it. Is badness hereditary? Let's see how we can stop killing. I'm not too intimidated by her. What are you talking about Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts Hello and welcome to reewind with Karena, Georgia. This is a show where we step into the past through our old episodes and emerge from the other side with brand new feelings and case updates. I love that. Today we're rewinding the episode one hundred one, which we named live at the Majestic Theater in Dallas. The creativity never ends This episode originally came out on december twenty eighth, twenty seventeen. A, million years ago. Just to go back for one moment. Oh my God. Let's listen to the intro of episode one hundred one Dallas. prettyretty sure I saw UFO. Yeah. You you see that? Uh? It's an assortment of lights. A lot going on. It're so bad I you So exciting. This is our third and best show in Delas. Yeah No No, I ruined it. My pockets's out. I ruined it. It's no longer the best show. Let's start over. God damn it Let's take it from the top. This shirt needs to be burned. Let's just say that. Yeah I didn't even give a passsover Um No, I love it. There's hair There's the tears, sweat of others, myself combined. I realized today that all the clothes I brought to Texas smell like barbecue I haven't even been in a barbecue restaurant. It's not like I've been in a restaurant. It's e things backstage and in the hotel room. Yeah. And yet And also where was the picture that you sent me today? I sent her a photo of a troth of mac and cheese. close up Very close up. It was a close up U That was actually just Whole Foods, but I St I just thought it would be a good photo 'cause we didn't text that morning. We hadn't text it all day. And I was like, this will be a funny thing just to send some one randomlya. But then after that, fuck you guys, Okay. Did you just say fuck you guys? to Dallas? No no I you. No, fuck, coma, you guys. Okay. No, because all right, I love LA. However, if I had to move somewhere, it would be a place that has really fucking good barbecue and a gas station. Would that gas station be our friend Bucky's gas station Yeah That's right, we know the lingo now. We can fuck and speak your language. Yep. Bucky nuggets. one thousand. Yeah I ate those too today. Oh so good. How did c can you not? I mean, it's like cotton candy in your mouth But beavers. But beavers No St Stop this This is supposed to be the best show Was it really at the gas station? Yeah, there's a fucking just whatever gas station, and then there's a barbecue place and a drive through In the gas station and it was like really good barbecue. Were you still asleep? Yeah. And then I took it back to the hotel room and sat and ate barbecue in the hotel room. Yeah. And well Vince watched football and I was just like, this is my life. That my life. life. This is the life. Free glass of rosese from the the downstairs hotel area. Oh, did you go mingle I know, Id fucking grab a glass of wine and it up thereair my bcue in peace. You're like, do you have any pictchers or large containers, maybe a flower vase that I could take with me? I don't want to mix with these people. Vince did really disappoint me in our marriage though because no. And like this is, you know, he's amazing. But I went to they're like, they pour you glass. don't like Rosese. It's like two to six, Rosese hour or whatever the fuck And then the guy goes to pour two glasses and he goes oh, no just one, I don't want one And I was like, No, dude, you get a second glass for me team playing. Yeah at all times. But it probably was a sign of you're drinking too much. Do you think he was quietly judging you? No, he would't. Now with counterpoint, Vince. I talk massive shit on him and then I hand the microphone over. Well, that's interesting. I have nothing to say about it. Maybe Vince does There he is he's down in the little opera spot where you all call for your line. Down in the old this is an old theater reference I'm making. Only certain people understand Wanna know what I did? Yes U I Got a massage. Oh, I know. In the hotel. fancy, right? Amazing. It's so much easier to communicate with you when we have this crab like clasp on each other the intensity of that. Yes U It's a conduit So I called down, I look, this is brilliant. If you have a business that you offer two things that don't go together, put them on the same menu. Because as I was ordering breakfast, I was like, oh massages. It was right fucking there Which I've never seen before. I was so smart, where I was like, I want oatmeal. Oh, and I want some to rub my back And in this place, they have forehand massage, which means two people massage you at one time. I feel like that's a creepy way to say that. Forehand massage What isn't a creepy way to explain what that might be I feel like hey, two people massage you at the same time. Okay, F hands from who knows where Coming up out of the walls in the ground. They're all strangely silver and gray. Don't worry about it, You're face down What species of hands are we talking about? But two people. Oh, interestnteresting, you say that. Monkey hands. That's when you read this small print. Monkey and raccoon hands. So one's too small. And one's too strong and could kill you That'd be pretty cute. That' be sweet until you die I am so Catholic, I could not order the fhand massage I was like, That's not right. can't I can't ask for that That's too much enjoyment in this life Who am I? I think that's the perfect way though to like treat yourself without guilt is always have one thing that's too much. So like even if you want like Well, I'm not going to get a Lexus. I'll just get a what's one step down from Lexus? Oh, clearly it's a dodge charger. Yes But what you really wanted was the Godd's charger to begin with. Oh, you inside your mind you're doing all of this to someone on the street. To yourself. Okay. Writing it on paper or just this is a mental situation? H Have your Jewish friend tell you that you're worth it and you deserve it. Come on That's how we are. That's our new thing That's our new campaign. Everyone get a Jewish friend I say, you know, I think I can justify any purchase for anyone in a way that makes you like Proud Yeah, you're right, I should get that Alexa I don't know. Right. I should get a raccoon par massage I deserves this. She's right. I work hard. Imagine 'cause you've seen raccoons wash their food, right? And It's so thorough and fast. A little they do that a little But it's on your shoulder And they stare at you did ever tell you about that time? I thought this was right before I got my dog George. and was here I was by myself in my house and I would hear shit every night and just be like, here we go, this is it I knew it. here we go Every fucking night. That's when I started sleeping in front of the TV because anytime I would go into my bed, there would be some weird noise and I'd be like, great I had that party tomorrow, but now I'm gonna be murdered So But I always knew know that it was probably just all that shit they say, the house settling or a man living in your attic or whatever Things people tell you. Yeah But this one night I hear a sound so that I swear to God, this sound what I pictured in my mind when I heard it wasas someone throughrew an old fashioned word processor against the back wall of my house I don't know why, but that's exactly what it sounded. Like a huge crash. A crash with plastic involved. like an outdated electronic machine crash. It was like one of the guys from office space instead of this, they were like this. It was that. That's scary. It fucking scared the shit out of me, right?. I go to check and we we used to have a cat M. I never talk about him. His name is Angus. Don't mention it to me My cat Angus, who was feral Awful L hair, which is the fucking worst in a pet of any breed Man I watched him almost scratch up. I've told you that story where he's hiding. There was like something leaned against the wall and my eighteen month old niece, Went was like, What's over here. And right as she leaned down, the cat callaw was like this with all nails out face. Yeah. And that's what Pete Rana just picked her up really fast. it was like one of those like It was a Matrixie this Like she wasn't leaning, it was just anyway. I can't remember the story I was telling, Oh, because. So we had this built in cat door. Oh no.. Don't do that. Right. So in my mind, I'm like, well someone with the longest arm ever reached through it? And's like That's already what I was thinking. Was it? Yes. el someone with long arm could just come and lock it. The long arm bandit It's a raccoon that grew up in your nuclear test facility. Oh. It's not his fault, he has those long arms. One long arm. J the last the one. So he has a crazy limp Fastest hands. Okay, so I get over there And of course I think it's someone trying to like physically break into the back door. And when I get to the back door, I flip the porch lightight on and there's a raccoon who is just coming back out of the cat door. So like he had gone He had gone, I think, halfway into it and then come back out really fast. He must have heard a noise or something. Yeah. And so when I'm standing there, I flicked the light on and the raccoon is like trying to figure out a way to go back, like reapproach it. And when the light flicks on, he goes like this. he goes And then just fucking stares me down God. Like, oh, you're up. And yeah, I thought you were away And He's like staring at me. And so I kick the door. 'cause of course at this point, I'm so angry and scared and feel so stupid that that asshole is what I thought was gonna murder me So I kick the door so he'll go away. and he just goes like this ' little hands and he sits back on his haunch, he's like, okay, lady, let's take it easy. He's like, Huh, okay, Let's just try. That's one. She's not gonna let me have the garbage. I'm gonna have to get it a different way I I want to rec. You want to recack hand so bad. You want your own record? I do. Yeah The short arms are long arms Surprise me. Okay. Christmas is ry around the corner, everybody? So's Hanukah. Hey, shit. That's why you need a Jewish friend. You never think about Hanukah. Hanukah sooner. It's more pressing. Get your Hanukah shopping done now, Texas. This is my favorite murder. This murder the fog does Healigara. This is Georgia Harts Stark. H C we tell real quick? We've had some wardrobe issues. Oh yeah. Oh I thought you're pointing at our feet. No, no, now I'm just doing things with my body. so I don't know what's going on anymore. I'm so tired. And last night somebody posted a great picture from the show, which was very sweet. and people love to show us pictures of ourselves. I personally resent it, but I understand I understand it's not about me. And whoever it was, it was somebody that was up in this balcony. We see it He Is that the Queen of Spain?, they're right there. That's so funny. Hi. it might have been up one or is there no, it's just that one It seemed very high. couldould have been a bird's picture. I'm not sure But My I didn't dye my roots before I left for this trip because I was like, sticking out a little bit right there. I look like I'm balding just on my part J tons of hair everywhere else, but then that's sad, just Only on the part. He's like fucking. Oh I don't This is why you're not on Instagram and shouldn't be. It's just you just are like, there it's that problem area. What about the time we were in Australia, I showed Georgia a picture of myself and I was like, ' she's always like, canan we take a pict? And I'm like, No I stopped asking. She had to. She had to. that we worked. I' hold up this thing and' be so cute.'ll put onwer. Let's look, can I take a phot of with this? No. Never so cute, notot so cute. I'm almost fifty. I shouldn't be here I here on earth No, no, that's not true.'s What a great time we're all having I took this picture of myself and because I was facing the window and it was like morning light, there was this odd combination of things where it actually was this fucking majestic picture of me that I ran next door to your hotel room and I was like, oh my God, look, I actually took a good picture. was like It was really weird. My hair is back and I didn't have any makeup on, but it somehow worked. And Georgia goes, amazing. And then she goes like this goes and puts all these filters on it And then it looked fucking incredible. and I go, what did you just do? And she's like, you don't know about filters That's why I don't likest I didn't like Instagram is because I didn't know everyone's fucking cheating on there. They my God We're all cheating. My cats are cheating is cheated. I didn't know. Fuck in sunset? You were like, Oh I guess I didn't see that sunset tonight. It's becausecause it didn't look like that. P had a bunch of filters on it. You mean all those gorgeous dinners that people have been taking pictures of? Have you seen unfiltered food? No Youon't post photos of food unless you know how to filter the shit out of those things. What a revelation. I'm just saying that for the other people in the crowd who might not know that you can fix your fucking face. It's such good news. It's such good news Oh, it's so so yeah. Thank God. shouldhould we sit down? Yeahep, we really should chairs like these again. let's give them a moment to shine This chair It was made when Robert Waglow, the tallest man in the world, got an office job at IBM And he demanded an ergonomic chair to sit in You know, for when you want to pretend like you work in a giant office. Yeahep And there you go. Yes I've never in my life I mean It's a yeah, it's okay. so then we climb in Yeah. A on? Oh All right And now the pull in. And that's how you sit down. Ohwen, America. just real quick last night at the second show, the hometown was like someone's mom, which is like always fun. I'm here with my fifteen year old daughter. She was like the cutest thing. The best, the best cutest. We always thought moms were mad at us. They're not. Such good news. She was a Bible teacher in prison and she's like, and then I found out what one of my favorite students did and it was bad U She was the one who was the girl who hit the homeless man on the freeway. He got stuck in her windshield and she drove home with him. Remember that whole story?? She taught her the Bible. Too late. Right? Yeah You need to skip straight to the fucking repent part because you're done. Yeah You're done No U So Karen stole her red flag. She came up and she was like, we made these. And I was like, well, that's mine now. mine. I was like, you can make another one, right? Becauseuse I can't. So thank you Put it in your water. o. Oh is this strong And we are back. Hello. We're back here in good old twenty twenty. The thing I was talking about at the beginning of that where I see a UFO. Do you remember the inside of that theater? Yeah. So it was like it went up so high. Because didn't the ceiling retract and it could be an indoor outdoor theater? So I think it just looked like there were like almost like opera boxes that went up ten stories. It was fancy. It was big and it was fancy. Yeah. I thought they were gonna kick us out No No. they wanted us there. They did. Yeah. This is the same place and I think we talked about it before where the driver picked up the wrong two girls at the hotel. Our driver who was supposed to pick us up and take us to the venue, these two girls were standing outside. used to like Girls were going to the show. Yeah. And so he says to them like, Ohh, you guys must, you know, get in, I'll take you. Yeah. going over to the show. Yeah, it does. They're like, hell yeah. And then halfway there, they're like, w. So good. N not carar to Georgia I mean, that's my favorite. The best misunderstanding. Did we How did we meet them? wasas it because we were still standing there waiting? And we' like, Where the fuck? And they get out cracking up. They clearly had a couple drinks already. was They were just delightful and so funny. That's so. Also, there were so many of those Texas shows that I remember because stuff like that, it just felt like there was more I shouldn't compare it. We always have amazing experiences, but for some reason, it's always just like, wait, whatping? For us coastal elites out here in California, the fact that Southern people listen to us is still shocking to us. Shocking, It's thrilling. I also love this where I shame Vince for not saying yes to another glass of wite To me, that's like such a relationship thing. and he thankfully does it now. but This was like almost ten years ago. Yeah he didn't know yet. L Yeah, say yes. and then pour it into mine. Give it to me. Alost like you have to perform tonight. Why don't you not have two glasses of wine? I just need two small cups, please. Please just let me have them Also, o, the forehand massage Oh my Godd.s The first time I'd ever heard that phrase. I still find it like a really weird way to say I got massaged by two people at the the same time. No, just the hand. Like did the person have four? I still don't It was just the hands Which makes me laugh so hard that think what kind of hands? Yeah raccoon hands. Oh so funny. What else should I've actually since that time, I have gotten a f handed massage. And It was very presented in a very like almost like it was spiritual and this was like like what's it called when they like put their energy in that kind of thing. Yes. L like a healing. It was a healing. I was at a fancy place And they were it was a healing vibe, but it was just almost like I felt like for me, it felt like the most efficient way to get super relaxed as quickly as possible. Yeah. And it didn't feel as kind of like luxurious indulgent. Yeah, and crazy as I was imagining. Well, twenty seventeen Karen wouldn't do a lot of things that twenty twenty six Karen probably. twenty seventeen, Karen had just gotten out of. Uh, yeah Yeah. Cose foreclosure Yeah. Right? I literally just by the skin of my teeth. Yeah So there was a lot of things that seemed crazy and indulgent at the time. Like free wine at a hotel. Yeah. Like we' st at the kind of hotel. That was definitely in our era of like, I'll do this, but I gota stay at a nice hotel. You gott to give me free wine at four PM or whatever it is that they're gonna offer. a massage or something. I'll take it. Oh, and I just I'm really proud because this is just proof that I've always been talking about the world's tallest man Robert Wadlough. Yeah from the beginning. It's like that thing of like, I like them first, you know, Yeah. I'm like a stuck up band guy. But stan him? I stan giants and I always have, It's not a new part of my personality and here's the proof Here's the proof. Thank God for this podcast or people would call you a poser when it comes to tall giant people. Right? The thing that doesn't exist really in our culture anymore that absolutely ruled our culture. Isn't it? Well, I mean, that idea of yeah, you will not get clout yourself for calling another person a poser. Right. Oh, I thought you meant giants It didn't exist Oh, we've gotten rid of almost all of them. We really We've really what's it called did out? We worked them out. Yeah Cycle them out, cycle them out Eugenics. I'm very excited because this story that I told at this live show is one of my favorite. Really Tue crime stories is ever. Yeah. Oh my Godd, it's amazing. Let's get into it Let's listen to Karen' Story about Terry Hoffman Summers for adventures, road trips, and adding a whole lot of miles to your car. That's why it's worth stopping at Valvalinee Instant Oil change first. If you need an oil change, make the smart stop at Valvaline Instant Oil change before you hit the highway. Their trained techs can help you get road trip ready with an oil change and an eighteen point maintenance check included with every oil change, checking your tire pressure, wipers, lights, and more. That means they're checking important things before you're halfway to your aunt's house with no cell service. And these aren't just any techs. Valvaline Instant oil change techs complete over two hundred seventy hours of training So your car's in capable hands. The best part, you can stay in your car and you're in and out in about fifteen minutes. So before your next long summer ride, pull into Valviline inststant oil change. Valvaline Instant oil change. change wisely. G. Bye. Betrayal Weekly is back with brand news stories. From threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town. It was from an unknown number Who else is getting these messages Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities? Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed a word, she said New voices, each with the courage to tell their own story. He said I had been kidnapped. Okay just trying act normal. He was essentially on the run. Every family has secrets rug had been pulled from underneath me Oh my Godd. It was right in front of my face and I didn't even see it Listen to betetrayal Weekly on the IiHart Radio app Apple Podcast. wherever you get your podcasts. Your husband is not who you think he is Your body is not what you thought it was Your identity is formed by a secret history I'm Danny Shapiro And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the fourteenth season of Family Secrets. Just then We felt the plane turn in the air So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy how it shapes our identities and relationships and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. and me pretending like everything was fine He kind of showoed me out of the way and said, move And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. and that was the last time I saw him Listen to seeason fourteen of Family Secrets on the IHart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elillusive, but now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy one hundred one. It's a new podcast hosted by me, How to Copy. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting and moving on air chats Open your free iHart radio app search, joy one hundred one, and listen now Joy one hundred one with Hota Kffee is presented by CBS Okay, Okay, I'm first this evening. Okay, okay. let's do this. This is a true crime comedy podcast. So all you strangers. Thank you at all and Steven's not here, sorry Yes, It's so disappointing, I know He's sending me photos of my cats. and there was one photo that he sent today in. I said to myself, they look hungry That' such an asshole They look hungry. They look hungry. She was like, Don't they look hungry in this picture? And I was like, M s, They look hungry. It's hard to tell, he said. Yeah, H to tell. The consummate politician Well, could be, it couldn't be. Okay, onnce again, this story, and it seems like we're underwritten by the magazine, Texas Monthly, but we're not we're not being paid by them in any way. but we get so many amazing stories from them For real It didn't It dawned on me the first night we were here when I was looking up one of my stories and there's a lot of people obviously that write for that magazine, but there's a guy named Skip Hollsworth that writes tons of great. Always that guy. I just found out today when I was looking at my story and his also used his information that he wrote a book. What's it about? It's about a serial killer in Austin, like the first serial killer in Austin. Shit Oh, is it the sererving girl annihator? I don't I don't know I just I did that one audible and it's there. Okay we're gonna w get everyone downloaded it Now let's blow the wi fi up Okay, sorry So this is another one that I found searching Texas Monthly because you can go in. they have like articles from back in the eighties. It's amazing. They also somebody has done that thing where they make a Google book out of the old magazine. So while I was reading the article for this story, there were these ads coming up on the side that were fuck they were from nineteen eighty two and they were amazing. What were they? It was just a bunch of blonde people being thin and rich all over. all over the Dallas Fort Worth area ust you know, it wass like always that one lady with gold earrings and like kind of a weird blonde haircut that was like, I fucking love oil You? They just drank oil at that point. It was just There's a lot of, you know how sometimes it's like beef,'s what it's what's for dinner. There's just there's commercials for things that it's not a company, it's just a concept. Oh yeah, like milk or whatever the Yeah. ye. Milk, milk It's good for your bones. Okay, that Tom Kennney, who was on Msth with me, one he's also the voice of SpongeBob. onene of the most But his biggest thing was being on with you. That's right. It's what I mentioned first because I'm in it. but he's so brilliant and hilarious. he used is standing in his standupack where he pretended that he was also hired by all those companies like the Milk Bard and the beef Association or whatever, the farmers Association. And so he would do alternative jingles for all of those things. and that was like He was like milk, it's good for your bones but singing it like a rock star And he also did one. there's a restaurant in LA called Rosco's Chicken and Waffles. That's amazing And he would go, Ros school's chicken and waffles is your chicken and' a waffle connection idebaration. I don't think you're allowed to do other people's acts during your show. He't it. He's got all that spongebob money. Yeah, that's right. He doesn't even know. You su me? You rich bastard? Okay. Anyhow, The article I got almost everything from what I'm about to tell you, I'm essentially rereading you this article and it is so fucking crazy and long that I It's like by the end I was like scanning, scrolling really fast or I'm like, don't look at the ads Don't look at the people that are drinking by a window, just focus on the article. But it was called The Curse of the Black Lords by Peter Elknd. There was also an article that I looked at for a magazine called D Magazines. Yes me too. Did you look at that one? I use both of those magazines too. So good And that article is called The Rise and Fall of A North Dallas Cult by George Rodriguez. And this, my friends, is the story of Terry Hoffman and the Conscious Development Cult No This is one of the fucking craziest things I've ever read about. and I can't wait to read more. like I want to read a whole book on this because this is straight up Nuto. and I cannot believe in all the years of all the twenty twenty s and things that we've all been watching for years and years, I've never seen anything about this. Nutso. Okay So We start now. Yeahah, crack that beer because this is gonna be long Actually I want to start I wonder if this is the first picture Wonder, let's see Uh? Uh? It's okay. It wasn't. Shit Okay, here's how this article starts and it's such a brilliant way to get into this story because it's not at the beginning, which is always a good and left turn. but this is basically how the cops found out about this cult It's Thanksgiving in nineteen eighty nine Dt put yourself there. I'm there. So much hairspray. Oh my God. All of it is that Aussy, what do you call it product? Yeah. That purple hairspray. Got it. It starts with the smell in an East Dallas neighborhood of Lake Highlands. They love smell. They love the smell. It's so bad that the neighbors call the cops, firemen are the first on the scene. They kick down the door takeake a step into the house, walk back out and throw up on the front lawn. Oh, they always do that. don't takeaint the crime scene And or here's a tip to killers and bad people. Walk outside, just put that knife right there on the lawn. Right in the barfing ark Okay Ugh E yick. So then they have to put on their Scot air packs And which is like the mas ye, for firemen and go into the house The house is filled with flies Uh oh Clouds of fly. Oh o, the red flag so far If This house wet the bed, we'd know something bad was happening In the back of the house They find former Southern Methodist University business professor, David Goodman and his wife Glenda, both forty eight They have both been shot with the gun directly against their skulls. and they've been dead for over a month. What . You guys mind your business here. Like nobody's like, That's right. C it fucking tanks So bad.es. Property. I respect it. Yeah. property something goes down. Don't worry about it. We're raising flies. That's our choice. It's what we get to do. I bought this property, I paid taxes on it There's a shooting gallery in one corner of the room, which is a metal stand with paper targets. There's guns on the coffee table, and there's pellet guns leaned up against a wall Um sounds chill. Yeah it was like a rumpus row It Man cave. so Also there iss an alarm clock at their feet.. Police and medical examiners conclude it's a murder suicide or some kind of a You know, consensual double death. Jeez, which is the name of my new band. Sorry Sorry. That's good. No, no. that That's not. No, no, no, no, no. How's my part up there? even U thans, Thank you. Next you like scalp? Okay. Okay So, So he was an investment advisor who owned his own company. She kept his books. He'd been married three times. She'd been married once. and friends and family said that they were deeply in love. They were ecstatic in each other's company, whichich is the nicest sentence. No suicide note of any kind, two dogs had been left in the backyard the whole time, but they were alive pacing Pacing, angry And the second they ate food, they would forget about everything that happened. Some neighbor was just fucking throwing a handle kib all over the back. Any shut I just yeah. That's nice. That's a good thought. Right. An angry yet caring neighbor like here's a pork chop, you stupid shit. Okay. But then police find two handwritten journals and they find out that they have been planning their death for months God told them to do it, and God's spokesperson was the leader of a spiritual group that they belong to called conscious development of body, mind and soul. Like if anyone didn't know that was a cult immediately. by that name anyytime it's like kind of vague words that suggest a slight idea but won't get specific, get out Get away Okay They had been They had been advised to stay away from family and friends because of their negative energy. Absolutely. And they also stipulated in their will that they were giving the leader of conscious development of body, mind and soul half of all their future earnings, which must have meant that their company was doing really well. And one hundred thousand dollars like what they had in the bank, which was one hundred thousand dollars. And the leader of conscious development of body, mind and soul was a woman named Terry Hoffman. Let's take a look. Dam it I saw sty Crazy. Hi That's such a good voice That's what she sounds like.. Hi Please don't away from my eyes. Would you like some j Do you want a forehand massage I bet you that was like a secret fear somewhere deep inside where it's like, yeah, you're gonna get on the table and the forehand massage is gonna start Bom you're giv someone one hundred thousand dollars and you're dead. You're in a fucking cult. You're in a cult and you can't get out and you're like, I love her. I love Terry and I want a shirt just like hers Um Boop, there we go. Thank you. Okay So after they find this death, reports of patterns of deaths like these in the conscious deevelopment group, they don't call it a cult, start up. And so police start an investigation that year and they find out that eight members of this spiritual group had died prematurely. eightight. And three of them were sudden accidents And five had committed suicide, and two of the suicides had been Terry's husband's. Oh no. So they're like, it doesn't seem like a coincidence to us And all of the dead people had named Terry Hoffman as the sole beneficiary of their estates, all of them. Terri, of course, gets talked to by the police, and her explanation is very simple and clear. The people who joined her group, which was basically what she said know is a kind of a new age meditation group, they were all emotionally troubled and invariably prone to take their own lives. You know how people are You know, you just attract a certain type. Yeah. meditation, new age, suicide. Right. Very common. Yeah. Be careful. Mm So And she said they had left her their money in exactly the same way that other people leave their money to traditional churches. So what's the problem And the cops were like, great, seeee you later. Now Very soon after the police investigation started, Terry's two stepchildren filed a lawsuit against her, saying that she had contributed to all those deaths through hypnosis, behavior modification, mind control, and emotional manipulation AKA, Terry was the leader of her own death cult. Yeah. Okay. seems so innocent. I know Should we look at her again? Look at her again. Okay G on you ee. Okay. so we'll talk about Terri Hoffman's background. She was born into a poor family. Her mother died of tuberculosis and she was sent to an orphanage when she was nine years old U So there she realized at the orphanage at age nine that she was the reincarnation of Saint Tereresa of Ava who as we all know, all the good Catholics in the audience know that S. Theereresa was a sixteenth century Spanish n. I had no idea of any of this I was like, shit, I teach you guys a lot.. And we memorize it and we take it with us through our lives And Saint Teresa was a Spanish nun who had visions of the Holy Trinity. That's the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. I know that one. Okay So it's Monty Python God. Tpectacles, testicles, wallet watch. R In fact you don't know obstacles while I watch. I Is this what you say about Catholics when we're not around airplane. I think it's What? Aome powers? No, it's. I'm glad I don't know that reference then. I got taught that at a young age. Okay. I think my dad taught that. Mart Okay. It's good to know. I was much more concerned with, do you know the Holy Trinity 'cause I was trying to beck and Terry Hoffman you into my cult, which is Catholicism If you just have five minutes, I can tell you about the good word. Okay Saint Tereressa had these visions. She believed that she was visited by the Holy Trinity. She also believed that you could visit the kingdom of heaven like rooms in a castle. So she would basically kind of like astl project into heaven. and she told everybody about it. So Tera is like me too. When she was eleven, she was adopted, but she ran away four years later to Durant or Durant, Oklahoma Oklahoma We were presenting so fucking hard at our yos Hi guys. Okay. Hi, we had no idea. We had no idea. Thanks for being here. Thank you So she runs away to marry an eighteen year old truck diver named John Wilder. That's a truck diver V nice say T truck dver Oh, you've never heard of that. They drive trucks off of piers and then And in the truck they go fishing. Okay, I did the attic attics, which Mu every show this This is the weekend that we find out that we have several speech impediments and we're proud of them Um who cares So Terry, now that she's a married old fifteen year old, droumps out of high school, his fucket. And she has a daughter in nineteen fifty four. She has a son in nineteen fifty eight, anotherother daughter in nineteen sixty three. They all live on a farm in South Dallas County So of course, her husband, her eighteen year old husband, goes away on these long haul trucker trips. And so Terry begins to dabble in the occult She reads books about Edgar Casey and she takes classes in hypnotism By the late sixties, they'd moveved to Fmmer's branch. and Good times like We just yet small houses there. or big. We'll talk about it later. So once they get there, she starts leading meditation classes at her house. And this is basically when conscious development started. Okay. So hs on a level. Yes,actly everyone in LA. Yeah. for fuck's sake Oh, that's the thing I forgot to tell you when I went over my when I actually got, I just stuck with aromatherapy massag and I was like, that's what people get. Be normal. like other people shit Yeah while you get massage. I love aromatic oils. smmelling it. But the woman goes, Is there any particular areas that you want me to focus on or any problems you're having? And I just go I just trying to get back into my body. And then we both just stood there staring at each other and then I was like I'm not in LA. You're not supposed to say things like that. God. It is so embarrassing. Get back in my body. What did you say China? Get back in my body. What does that mean? It's deep. It sounds deep. It just came out and I thought she'd understand and she is just like Okay, you can put the robe over there. She just pretended like it never happened. I'm gonna use that. Doid it work? U it. Oh, I'm in my fucking body tonight. Let me tell you what she must have understood me. I mean mean getting back, than you. It's nice to be here. Okay.. So it was basically just a talking meditation class. she also she would write up and sell lessons like in little pamphlets herself. And this was the first lesson. It was first degree lesson one. That iss how it starts This is your first lesson. It is yours in a special way, since the knowledge contained within it is sacred, secret, and mysterious.. It's fucking on the page. It's none of those things This information has been treasured and carefully guarded since ancient times. for knowowledge gives its possessor power That's true. This sounds like a really long fortune cookie for some By being exposed to the teachings of the masters, you will not only become aware of the truths which others rarely possess Yay, But you will also learn how to use and control energies few have mastered. I'm already out. you don't like this no. Harry Potter? Okay by So it turns out the masters are, according to Terry Hoffman, twelve wise spirit guides who would visit Earth to give advice or warnings to mankind Only a few people very rare few could communicate with them. Of course, Terry was one of those people. And she said that the twelve Masters included Jesus Christ himself and a guy named Marcus. So I'm in one hundred I' had Jesus Christ is stoked, He made the fucking grade. Yeah. He made the list. He's like, great, I have so much to tell you. Sorry Marcus is talking You're gonna to have to hold on Okay So according to Terry, the masters first appeared to her when she was four years old. And They told her that she could have anything she wanted if she tried hard enough Yeah It might be true. I mean, depends on what you want. for Yeah, let's think about it for a Okay, I'm here, Let's do it She also said that the problems that you have in your life are coming up because you're paying for bad behavior from your past lives. So it's like, Terry, that's karma. You didn't make that up. That's Hindu. Stop it, Terry I wish I was Terry's friend, I could just be there when she was writing up this pamphlet and be like, Terry, you're lying. stop it Stop typing about Marcus. That's a fucking lary Karen. That's why she had to get rid of all the negative energies. Yes, 'cause it was Karen telling her Yeah. 'cause I'm trying to copy edit her bullshit. justust be like, can't put you can't pretend you made up karma. People will catch you. Okay She also preached There's no difference between life and death as quote, you will become conscious of the continuity of life. Death then will not exist in reality because your existence is not dependent on the mere existence of the physical body What? What You can't just put the word existence in a sentence seven times and be like, I talk to God. Well apparently you can. I mean, you can, And she did Okay, so most of her ideas were borrowed from the usual text that inspiredge the newew age movement, except her doctrine that offered forgiveness for sin and was very pro sex, like have it as much as you want and can. Jews, Yay. Is that what you guys are ourours. Well, yeah. That's your jam. We dig it partarticularly? No, but yes Yes. Yeah. So People were super into this concept, basically because they were like, oh, I went to I thought I was going to a yoga class, but it turns out I should fuck way more. It's kind of what happened. And people are like, I gott to go back to my class. I might start taking it two days a week. So as people who are as old as I am know, the eighties were a time of great materialism in this country Great expansion of materialism And of course, Dallas was a hotbed for it. There's tons of rich people here because of the oil industry and of the TV show, Dallas, I don't know, makeaking it up. I mean, it was everywhere, obviously, but it was the thing that always happens with materialism where it creates an empty hole and people are like, but I bought an eighty thousand dollars car and I'm still upset. now I'm really freaked out. What's going to happen to me? And normal religion wasn't helping most people with this feeling and they were turning to new age options a lot of people became spiritual seekers Um And so Terry's meditation classes She acted she was the wise guru. She had all the answers. She had a fucking direct line to Jesus and Marcus And as her students sat cross legged on the floor She sat there lecturing, this is straight from the article, lecturing everyone on anything from personal finance to sex to ghosts Yes. All right, I don't know. I'm in that class Sorry, how do you balance your checkbook again? What's haunted and meditate But then after the lecture part, then she would speak in a softer voice and she would lead the group in a trance like state And then the evening ended with a round of prayer Um, whichich I think is really fascinating. She studied hypnotism when she was younger And then she kind of like I think they're insinuating that she practiced it with these groups of people. So And for an additional fee, she would give people individual consultations on their. aboutout their checkbook? Yeah She'd be like, Mm, you have too much money. I need some. So when her husband, John, the truck driver, confronted her about taking her leading a meditation group thing too far, She claimed that he was impeding her spiritual growth and she divorced him And soon after, he and her adoptive mother actually had her committed to a psychiatric hospital for examination because it was she was going crazy. Or she was just a woman in the early eighties But she did end up losing custody of her children when the divorce was finalized in March of nineteen seventy one. Three months later, she married consonscious development member Glenn Cooley, who was a student at North Texas State University. Yeahum after they got married, he dropped out of school But kindinda, right? And He went to work full time at conscious development. He was twenty years old. She was thirty three. Okay So she was ballen Um then she gets this great idea that She introduces the concept of crystals and precious gems to the group and she starts to impplore her followers to start Um using electrically charged crystals and gems because they had protective and healing qualities. And luckily she made jewelry with just those very crystals and gems. Beautiful. Her and the twenty year old made jewelry together and so She urged her followers to buy it and she said the more expensive the pieces were, the more they protected you. That's not how religion works. It's not. It feels like it is has been working that way for a long time. Well, I'm here to tell you. Oh no, Marcus Can I see the picture of the whole group? Oh yes. Is that okay? Yes. In fact, check this shit out. Okay. Which one do you think Terry is at this point? because this is the late seventies? Okay The one with the beard. Now Terriry She's a woman. There was the one in the middle. one, It's all floral shirt over there on the side. Yes And her husband, the hot l is over here in the karate outfit. I asked Stepven if he would zoom in This is from a little bit later on in the relish, but not that much later. She's not thirty three. Ooh No It's a rough thirty three are up there This is like ten years later. Still, that's not forty three.s. Sometimes when your boobs are big, they take up all this space. And then you're like, I don't wanna wear this fucking bra anymore. So you're like, fuck it, I have my own cult. I'm not wearing a bra anymore. And also I'm gonna wear this tablecloth as a dress Here's her husband A y Did you know that's where Matthew McConaughe got to start C canan we real quick though, go back, sure Okay, can you guess Pate Which one Stepven is Do you see it middle Because there's also a secret Stehven over on the left. Oh shit. Yeah. Wait, they're all Steven here You were a whole cult. An we day even know it. So they're deeply in love. and Okay So there's a person in this group and her name was Sandy Cleaver. and she had all the jewelry. She bought into this whole concept hookline and sinker. And she had a family trust. She came from a lot of money. So she had the time and resources to dedicate herself to conscious development And u She like of course, many people, she had a life marked with tragedy. Her mother had been in and out of mental hospitals. Her teenage sister died in a car accident. and her father had died in a plane crash. So she was a seeker. She was looking for some kind of spiritual answers And u She had she had been in this group since the beginning, and she really believed that Terri was all the things that she said and was really helping her Terry begins to prescribe holistic medicines to her followers. just rando pills that she had literally driven up in a truck from Mexico. No, don't take those you guys. Yeah. And it was like, these are like crushed up crystals. Eat them. No. No, no, I mean that's what I imagine. Why would you It's like this is a bunch of I'm like s humuman, right, but it's magic. it's gonna give you powers or whatever That's why I don't have a cult So She also she begins to convince her followers that she can heal she can diagnose people's problems telepathically and then prescribe them these holistic medicines. And this is basically how she sells her believers these medicines so they will give the medicines to their family members. Oh no. And Sandy Cleaver she Terry basically says, your five year old daughter is very sick and needs these medicines. And so Sandy's like Let's do it. When Sandy filed for divorce, a month after Terry filed for a divorce She told her husband, it was because he was blocking her spiritual development And they got he sued for custody because he could tell that she was going off the deep end with this meditation group that she was in. And he testified at the hearing that Sandy was giving their five year old daughter one hundred ten pills a day. Yeah, one hundred and ten. Yes. I can't even take six vitamins. I know. That poor baby. I know. It's super nuts But he ends up letting Sandy have have custody of their daughter. theirir daughter's name is Dereau if you weren't sure if they were really rich. They're super fucking rich. because have you ever even heard that name before Okay. He was so afraid that Sandy was going to because he knew that Sandy was studying this thing that said there's no difference between life and death and it's just another realm and it's just a different place to travel to that he was afraid if he tried to take Devreau away, she would kill her. So he let her have custody But they actually put a special provision in the divorce decree saying that Sandy was only allowed to take Devereaux to licensed physicians. which is an insane demand. R? No, Okay, so Sandy become once she gets a divorce, she becomes Terry's full time unpaid assistant Oh, interns. and When the company gets incorporated, she becomes the secretary treasurer. She she's like, you know, Euphrea. She's there front line She continually leaves Devereaux with their elderly housekeeper and goes to meetings, weekend retreats. She's never around Um When she took in a member of a group that was homeless Her ex husband's like, sorry, what are you doing? We have a child in the house? And she said his negative energy was making Deborahu sick Um So as the group grows larger, Terry then tells twenty five hand selected special people Now this is the group, but you are my teachers. And so they got sworn to secrecy and she told them something that could be never be spoken outside of their small group. And she said that was that they're all members of what's called a white Brotherhood and that they were chosen by the masters to destroy the forces of evil, which was a group called the Black Lords. The wording of this is very problematic uncomfortable. I want to assume she was just doing that as like a color thing, but she absolutely could have been racist. We don't fucking know what this woman's deal was. She thought she was Saint Teresa The good news is The evil forces had only existed on the astral and mental planes. Oh, so that you had to fight them there.. So to kill them, you had to take them to the pits of hell where their soul and lower bodies would be dissolved. But the black overlords could not be destroyed in the pits of hell. They must be destroyed in the electromagnetic dissolving cave. Jesus, I already need a fucking map I L When I got to this part of the story, I started getting that weird stomach ache where it's like when you're little and you get left alone for too long and there's no adults in the room and you're like, There's too much kid talking and like kid pretending where you're like, you need to shut up for a while. Everybody Turn the TV on. I don't w want to hear your weird story anymore That's what this is. This is a woman with no filter and no editor who's just like, I have another idea No Let it marinate. Okay, because also There're also garbons Oh beans There's no There were things called garbons. Pobes. I didn't hear that. I get it. This is how unfucking creative this woman was. And she's like literally finishedes a salad. and she's like, there's also an evil force called a garbon.oban. Garbonds, Oes were six feet tall. Covered in slime.ost like aonda beans L like. They had long beaks, they look like gargoyles. and they were known to cross into the physical and touch you and leave slime. That's great. So if that happened to you and if after thirty seconds, your hand tingled or shakes, that's a garbon stuck to it and you have to use your imagination, wrap it in barb wire, stab it and kill it, and then imagine the dead garbon spinning straight up and dissolving into the universe They stop taking their meds. Someone a while ago. This is like when you do a ton of coke with a stranger, you're just like. I don't wanna talk to you anymore. my God. Can I have two more cigarettes and I'm going to leave So Go way faster, sorry. Okay. so she said that these teachers needed to arm themselves with magic symbols, a rod, a sword, a cup, and a cloth bag containing a cup of dirt My God. Yeah She said that they had to wear headbands of gold or silver, the protective jewelry, and she said they had to wear robes because quote, a properly made rope can give you up to fifteen times more power. This isn't a fucking video game. What is happening It's you're in the worst fucking after school theater class you've ever accidentally joined So they would sit in circles and they would battle the overlords for hours, mentally with their imagination And then they would call Terry and give her the body count. We killed two hundred and sixty dark lords, but I mean, black lords, but no overlords. Yes. And Terry would be like, I would do that with you, but your negative family is making me sick and have to fight I have to fight my own garbon, Zie I mean, I was there when you know when we were meditating, great, but now I have this homework in my head. Yeah I like over it. And there's this whole part. I mean, you guys have to read these articles because there's so much I'm leaving out and it's so dense, but they would she describe or the author, sorry, describes them having to fight these these black Lords where they could use as a rod or I mean, as a sword, it didn't have to be a sword. It could just be a pen or a letter opener. So they would be like going like sitting there and going like this to kill The garbonzo beans How Basically And they listed the kind of people that were in this group A college professor, an advertisent agency executive, a counselor for the Dallas School District H Yeah H off their meds. So she made them everything she told them was making them more and more paranoid. No one could be trusted outside the group, Eespecially the people who had been and were like, Hey, I'm not into the garbons thing I have to go. Okay, there were people who were like, goodbye. Yeah. Okaykay, good. Way, goodbye and But Then on february second, nineteen seventy seven, her husband, Glenn Cooley was found dead Kate Karate kid? The Karate king Okay, so they'd been married for six years at this point. He worked for the jewelry business, but Basically when he started hearing about this Black Lordch thing, he wanted out. And he'd actually told his family, like this whole thing has gone a little crazy and I need to get away Yeah So they separated in September of nineteen seventy six, but he still worked for CD Gems, which was the name of their corporation. The DD Gems, CD Gems It's like CD jem, like CD Jems She wasn't a smart woman. So the divorce goes through in January of nineteen seventy seven, five days later. He goes to spend the weekend at his parents' cabin in Lake Grapevine. and the next day, she says she finds a handwritten will in her safe Huh the most convenient place to leave something. And in the will, he left everything to Terry. so There's actually a line in the will that says, I will ask that this last will of mine will not be contested in any way. Oh, that's convenient. It's written in U So she says when she saw that The will he put in a safe. She got two of her teachers, drove to that cabin, and when they got there, they found her twenty five year old ex husband dead in bed with a strange ooze coming out of his mouth And they found a can of beer and some capsules. and when the toxicology report came back, it was valium and liilibrium in his system. So she tell Terry tells the authorities he was despondent over the divorce. and she told him not to go off alone, but he was basically suicidal And his death was uncontested for thirteen years. Everyone just took her story at face value So then we get into the part where she starts losing followers because she said the proof of his death was proof that the Black Lords were winning and the overlords were winning. And so now they need to introduce the next level of protections, bloodleting. Oh fuck So basically she tells the teachers the bllack Lords have the power to poison the blood And so the blood needed to be drained. And it was fine if it was just like a syringe. you just take out a syringe of blood every day. And all these people are just like, you know what I've been here for the crystals and the gems. said Ive bought your bullshit I'm taking pill after pill for you So people start bailing even in the inner circle, but Sandy Cleaver stays in. thenen Terry starts to tell her that her fourteen year old daughter, Devrea is now fourteen. And Terry says, she's been infected by the Black Lords Oh no. So in December of ' seventy eight, S and Sandy was never home, never went to Deverre' games, she played basketball, she was, you know, in high school and doing all this stuff. and Sandy was completely negligent. then she comes to her daughter and says, I wantan to take you on a trip to Hawaii. So of course, Devreau is so happy and excited. And Sandy's fiance at the time went with them and they went to this area that was basically it was like a certain beach and they took this blue raft out into the water and then they don't come back. And so Sandy's fiancee calls the cops and they end up finding Sandy bloody and stranded on this coral reef. And her story is they were out on this thing and a huge wave hit them and they got washed up onto this coral reef and she couldn't find Devereaux. And they end up finding Devereau's body like four hours later. Um so when Chuck, the Sandy's ex husband and Dearo's dad, he finds out They call him when she's still missing and they haven't found the body yet. So he hustles it up and takes a flight the next flight to Hawaii. and we get when he gets there, Terry's already in Sandy's hospital room So Sandy's been beaten up on these rocks or whatever. Terry's already there. U home in Dallas Somebody had called Chuck's house and a family friend answered the phone and they said, We have a document that you need to see. and it was Devereau's will A fourteen year old's w. And in it, her one hundred twenty five thousand dollars trust that she'd gotten from her mom was left to Terry And so And in it also, there was the line that said they specifically asking not to have the will be contested So Two months later, Sandy takes out a three hundred thousand dollars life insurance policy on herself which was twice the limit. The insurance agents's like, you don't need that much. And she's like, no, I insist. U seeventeen rings? No, I need to a And in it, Terriry is the sole beneficiary. And then she transfers the deed to her home or the title of her home to Terry and then begins paying Terry rent to live in her home. No Yeah. So In September of nineteen eighty one, Sandy persuades Louise, the old housekeeper that basically raised Devereaux herself. She's like, we need to go on a trip to Colorado The conscious development has bought this plot of land for a retreat that we're gonna to build one day. and we should go look at the land. And the seventy seven year old housekeeper is like, fuck off. Okay. I'm putting my feet up But she basically made her go and they fly out and it was in an area near Cripple Creek. and you're on this mountain and they are in the station wagon, they drive up the road to the mountain and fucking off that mountain. Yeah. The cops say there were there were no skid marks, there were no brake marks or anything. just drove off the mountain and killed them both. And then they find, Terry shows up in Colorado to claim the bodies And she's carrying both women's wills. Oh no. Everything is left to Terry and And the housekeeper didn't even know Terry, and she left everything in her will to Yes U I' so she. Sandy Cleaver's brother takes Terry to court. And she's like, he's like, this is all a crazy cult and this is like mind control and crazy bullshit. And they end up because it it is a document. I don't know what happened, but She has to pay she immediately cashed that three hundred thousand dollars check from a life insurance policy. So she has to pay him back half of that money and then they split the rest of Sandy's state. So she got half of it. Yeah. Wow. Let's see. So then there's still a couple followers left after that. The goodoodmans, who are the people we talked about at the very beginning. they're still in. and they were kind of like late adopters And David Goodman had testified at Terry's trial saying that conscious development was a discussion group that fosters good vibrations. fucking Beo boys or some shit Four other group members also testified on Terry's behalf at that at that trial and three of those people would end up killing themselves. Wow. Eventually, Terry came out with her own perfume Oh my guys' called good vibrations. Hm And also an acupressure massage therapy, course, that she hs. Finally, a criminal investigation was launched by the Dallas District attttorney's office in January of nineteen ninety. What Yeah. and they the problem was that it's so difficult to determine if mind control can be determined it can be cited as a cause of death because it's hard to prove. They, of course deny any wrongdoing that Terry Hoffman'swyer said, this is a witch hunt and she's a great person. She's a witch. Yeah. But a bad witch. Yeah. They can't find evidence linking Terry Hoffman to any of the deaths, so she doesn't ever go to jail for any of them. But she does file for bankruptcy in October of nineteen ninety one as she's sentenced to sixteen months in prison for bankruptcy fraud in May of nineteen ninety four. She only served a year In nineteen ninety five, Unsolved Mysteries did an episode on the disappearance of the Terry Hoffman's follower, Charles Southern She mar she ended up marrying five men U Wow all togetherether And they at the end, they wrote a book I'm really mad at myself because I took a picture of this thing that I wanted to write in the end, but I fucking forgot to write it down. The book they wrote was called I think it's called Shing likeike Money Colors. And it's basically like how to attract money to yourself through wearing differentoth in your clothes. That's something my mom would have read in the eighties A lot of people read it at me because they were like, haveave you gotten your money colors done? I only eat great fen cottage cheese and I wear purple for Because the I purple symbolizes five hundred dollars Anyway, she died in nineteen ninety seven and that's the end of that Sorry, that was so long ever I've never had a murder that was less fucking skippable. Like normally when we're reading these, you're like, this is important. That's a strange detail. Yeah D' thing is not so No, I'm down. I'm here for the murder. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right. Wit. Oh. this is okay This is the Illustration, how awesome is this? This was the fucking illustration. Now I'm not gonna to be able to get back to page one. This is the illustration that was in God bless it, Texas Monthly magazine. That is a tattoo for the ages. Look how bad, wait, and the guy that drew its name was Joel Peter Johnson. How amazing that. That is glorious We need prayer candles that image. Ohh, good idea. And it sucks because I had to do the thing. I made Stehven edit that for me because I had to do the Control shift four thing where I had to take a picture on my screen because you can't drag a drop And her little feet are dangling down, she's floating in the air.. Ver awesome. Okay. And we're back. Great job, Karen. Thank you. twenty seventeen. Way back Len. Do you have any updates? There are two updates One of them is so this is weird. I said in that show that Terry Hoffman died in nineteen ninety seven, but according to Wikipedia, which we know is an ironclad source, Wikipedia says that Terry Hoffman died at age seventy seven in twenty fifteen. That's not attributed to any source, but that same fact is repeated other places. So Marn looked it up and she can't find anything refuting it. But it's almost like that kind of thing when the single source is Wikipedia itself. Sure. Right. That's weird. There is an article in D magazine said that she was alive in twenty fourteen. And so I think a part of this is that she remarried after the investigations to a man named Roger Canillie and changed her name to Terry Lilla Canilly. So that might be why no one knew when she died or it didn't go out like the same way. Wow. Yeah such a good fucking' story. So crazy. Oh my Godd. Okay. so let's get into your story now. 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Betrayal Weekly is back with brand news stories. From threatening text messages disturbing a small Midwestern town. It was from an unknown number Who else is getting these messages Why did it start with us to long cons and stolen identities? Who lies about being this sick? This was the last time I ever believed a word, she said New voices, each with the courage to tell their own story. He said, I have been kidnapped. Okay ust trying out normal He was essentially on the run. Every family has secrets. The rug had been pulled from underneath me Oh my Godd. It was right in front of my face and I didn't even see it Listen to betrayal Weekly on the IiHart Radio app. Apple Podcast wherever you get your podcasts Your husband is not who you think he is Your body is not what you thought it was Your identity is formed by a secret history I'm Danny Shapiro These are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the fourteenth season of Family Secrets. Just then We felt the plane turn in the air So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle Each week, we dive headf into the complex power of secrecy how it shapes our identities and relationships and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything. And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, M And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him Listen to seeason fourteen of Family Secrets on the IHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Jake Brennan, and on my podcast Disgrraceland, I tell the stories behind music's biggest names, the moments that changed music history forever Sonic Youth was cool, but was the band cooler than the couple on the cover of their album Goo Cool enough to escape the glare of the international paparazzi Cool enough to escape murder Disgrraceland is part of the exactly right network Listen to new episodes every Tuesday, bonus episodes Thursday, and rewinds on Sunday on the IHart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts flag over here. get the flag ready. this out of the way. All right. My murder, you guys is Again, all the information from the same place is Sandra Bidewell, the Black widow of Dallas. O. I love a black widow. I know you love a black widow. Just love it. This is a weird story. All right, so let's talk about Sandra. Let's see a picture of her hot That's her,'s gorgeous.. Beautiful That was an inappropriate reaction, you guys She's a gorgeous woman. She you want to see them? Yes, please. Okay. Well but just because look at her friends, they're all so pretty. Yeah they're all really rich. They're having the best fucking Halloween ever. Because they're really rich. Oh because they're rich Okay, let me let's talk about her. Yeah. Okay. Sandra is born april fourth, nineteen forty four in a little town of Sadalia, Missouri Cadelia, I Missouri, thank you and was adopted as an infant to parents. And according to parents guess that's weird, right? becausecause I cut out their names. And okay. ye. According to reports, by the age of three, her adoptive mother, Camille, was killed in an auto accident. and her father, Arthur, who managed and ran a Dr. Pepper bottling plant, remarried and they relocated to Oak Cliffe, Texas You guys are rich No, I'm kidding. No, that's not a ris flight. That's lateater when she's older Now they're mad Can I just say that I had a doctor Pepper today and it was so goddamn delicious? This is the mini bar and I was like, I always just drink automatically drink diet Coke and I was like, Hey, I'm in Felin, Texas. I get to have a doror Pepper if I want You guys really know how to live. Okay Apologies to Oakcliffe because you're not rich, I guess. All right, it's all kinds of problems. Okay There he worked as a cemetery plot salesman, which sounds fun. Sandra and her new stepmom, they fought all the time. Apparently she was real mean to Sandra. She said her stepmother regularly locked her in the closet, told her nobody wanted her. and then one time was like, we're gonna to throw you a big birthday party. Ready for your birthday party? It's today. And then she's like J J kid didn't send out any of the invitations. Nobody likes you. Wow. Yeah. What's that lady's problem? After graduating from high school where she really didn't date much, she was just kind of a quiet girl, She began dating lots of dudes. and it was kind of in her mind that she was like, I'm gonna be a fucking housewife to a very rich person. That's my goal. She was like, okay, get it.. get it, whatever. Do it. We all have different goals in life. Yeah I love it. every dude became itt with her because she was beautiful. and then her friends said that she would do a thing called the ladylike poor helpless me routine. After one year of college, she drops out And she apparently is like a she lies all the time telling people that her adoptive parents had been killed herer parents were aristocrats, all this bullshit. The aristocrats? Yeah Then she meets a man named David Stiegl. He's a fancy dentist. He'd gone to school. Whats yeah. Lots of pinky rings and stuff. He's fancicy as fuck. He's a high pollutin dentist. You know what I mean? Yes. Like he's like, I'm not gonna fuckking give you a drill your teeth. I'm gonna like do Plastic surgery L like fancy sh. Ohkay stuff that isn't covered by insurance that costs a lot of money for high fucking society. You know what I mean? Yes, got it. You're just like, Hey, do you want me to give you a dent in your chin? I can do that for you. Right. I'm a fancy dentist. What was your childhood dentist's name? Oh God, I don't remember the dentist. You don't know. Do you? Of course I do. That's why I ask the question Do you remember your childhood We're just asking the security questions Luck your mother's maiden name What's that? I didn't hear you. Have' you seen the ones that it's like, who's your favorite niece or nephew? It's just like mean one. Is that true? I've never seen that one. Okay. I just know that every single one where they're like, What's your first car? And then I'll be like, You know, whatever the answer is. And then the next time I go there, I'm like, Well, there was that other one. Yeah. L My mom sometimes let me drive the volval.' like, I can't ever get into anything. No Okay, so she meets fancy dentist, David. he had gone to school in Los Angeles and had Hollywood caliber clients, but in the Dallas fucking richy rich set. You know what I'm say? So this is like the mid sixties, Everyone's richest fuck in Dallas. Sure. And he had a thing for fancy stuff, big cadillacs and houses and pretty women They get married in nineteen sixty seven. They have three children and they're raising their family in an upscale Dallas neighborhood. But Despite his salary and his like high fallutin reputation, he couldn't keep up with Sandra's spending. She was like, we're spending at all because because I said so. Yeah, you don't really need a reason So she had lavish tastes. She loved buying art and expensive furniture. and by nineteen seventy four the family is in severe debt Oh no So he's forced to borrow money from his family to pay their bills. And in nineteen seventy five, the situation and their marriage is falling apart, It had gotten so bad that David tried to kill himself. And by Sandra's story is that she told she found him in a closet with a gun pointed to his head called his coworker, like his business owner was like business owner? No, you know, his business part partner. Yeah, thank you He comes and they talk him out of killing himself But A few weeks later, he He is found lying in bed with both of his wrists slashed and a gunshot wound to his head Oh, that's a bit overkill Yeah seems like? Well then, you know, and when I found all these like random articles and Reddit stuff and it's like, and it said that the gunshot was first you know, so like clearly he didn't do that, but I didn't find that corroborated anywhere. so I'm not saying it Good use of the word corroborated though. Thank you U this is a true crime pack. That's right. I know words. I know words. S of them. not most of them. Okay, so here that was her. Nope That's someone else. Okay. That's her All right. So after his death, she collects the insurance on her husband's life. and sells this practice and then she begins dating wealthy men again Which is like, man, her husband just killed herself. Like go get Y over's honey, poor thing. L what sucks, right? Unless she killed him. You're right. It's hard to know whose side to be on. P probablybably not the bllack widows.. I would assume Um, so she kind of was Men were spelled by vow by her, blah, be blah and then a little more than, you know, she's hot.. She had a really hot bloby blah bl, blah blah blah bl You know what I mean So a little more than three years after her husband dies, she marries a well known Dallas hotel guy and investor. Hotelier Butotelier. But that's right. Bobby Bridewell. So that's her new her second husband He adopts Sandra's three daughters. They moveved to upscale neighborhood of Highland Park. So she could have It couldould have been in a cult, maybe. Oh, that's right. She was right around the corner. Yeah. sharpening her fingernails. But in nineteen eighty, Bobby is diagnosed with cancer. So while he is recovering from radiation and is trying to get better, she is having the entire home remodeled Yes, because you have to cleanse collap the corners, sage the house. Yes, get new Italian furniture, wallpaper. Sag carpeting, the end Very important So she's having it remodeled and then she says to like her neighbor You know, I'm getting this done today. Can you take him in your house for a week and let him live there herer dying husband, huh. So she moves in with the neighbors. He never returns to his home twowo years after his diagnosis and a couple of weeks after this, he dies U so She Sandra becomes friends with her late husband's oncologist, Dr. John Bagwell and his wife, Betsy They become buddies And so Betsy is the quintessential Highland Park housewife and mother. She's fucking Highland Park highigh Sch cheerleader, she was Not she wasn't as an adult. that would be weird. You kind of said that like Yoda. I know. Ilandark cheerleader she was I get it, I get know what I mean? Yeah. She but you know, she's like, you know, she's the shit. She's a hard working lady Shakespeare Festival, Junior League active in the Presbyterian church, taught Bible class for children in her home while raising two of her own children So the couple was like, great, we love this chick. She's our friend, Sandra, awesome. Wonderful. But then she starts becoming really like obsessive with them. And fucking, totally what about Bob's one of their vacations E shows up unannounced in New Mexico where they were vacationing.. She fucking what about Bob's that shit? What are you guys doing in New Mexico? No I think we have a photo of her. So that's her her that's her third husband, Stephven That's not him either. I thought we had a photo. That was There she is. That's Betsy that well Wait sorry. That's the that's the word woman Yeah that one was just trying to go on vacation. Yeah. Okay So she's like, surprise New Mexico. And then they're like, we need to distance ourselves from this woman at that point. So They they are trying to break ties with her, but she's still really insistent with hanging out with them even though they try not to get her like letter in their lives. But then in early june ' eighty two, Sandra calls Betsy and is like, Hey, I need to ride to the airport. My car won't start. some bullshit about that And so Betsy goes to help her, takes her to the airport, and when they go to the lot where Sandra's car is parked, to get her because she hadd forgotten her driver's license. It's some convoluted bullshit story So then Four hours later, after Sandra being the last person to see Betsy about june sixteenth, nineteen eighty two That that'sy forty year old. She's found dead in her Mercedes in the airport parking lot where they had been She'd been shot in the head and her death was ruled a suicide Mm. Right. No Um So Sandra being the last person to see Bagwell alive, all these questions of course surface. And there's no evidence. There's not a suicide note. She'd been living a happy life. Everyone who knew her was like, hell fucking know, there's no way she would have done that. Yeah But police John Bagwell, the husband, hires a private investigator, but police closeed the case and refuseed to open it So, u Let's see. So when Sandra has the funeral for her husband who died of cancer, Bobby, she got about fifty thousand dollars as like memorial funds, I guess people just like give you money I don't know. That's not usually how it works Well, she She didn't really spend any money on his funeral. She got like the cheapest casket and all this stuff And it pissed everyone off. Okay June, nineteen eighty four, she meets a guy named Alan Ririg. He's a good looking twenty nine year old. just moved to Dallas a former college basketball star from Oklahoma He was going to hit it rich in real estate. And so he's like, I' I want to be rich. And he's driving around Highland Park. He's like, this is a rich neighborhood. Sometimes people who live in these big houses will rent out their backhouse for people like me. So he's driving around, sees a hot woman on her fancy lawn and gets out and is like asks her. Turns out it's our friend, Sandra Uh oh. And they and she's like, I don't, but I'll help you. And of course they fucking fall madly in love with each other It is like the creepiest way to meet someone, right? No, I love it. In a rich neighborhood on a lawn, come on U Croquet style? Yeah. These are the sevenies people. Okay. So within weeks, they're inseparable. Then in the fall of ' eighty four, she says that she's pregnant. She tells him she's pregnant But unbeknownst to him, seven years earlier, she had had a hysterectomy. So she's fucking lying. That's a lie then. ye And she also told him she was thirty six, but she was really forty one Girl. that you've had full years they were really mad about one Do not lie about your age in Texas. U so He didn't doubt her though He had no reason to. So they got married in december nineteen eighty four, and then she was like, oh shit C't like lie about this for a couple of years so she says she has a miscarriage Um So I'm just still worried about lying, if you lie that you're five years younger than you are You look like shit. I mean, dude. Yeah At a certain point it all just starts falling apart. as I would personally attest We're just like I'm thirty two, everybody I wna lie up. So'll be like, Damn, you look good forty one. That' exactly right. I look really good for forty one. You got thir sevenound. So it doesn't I'm so disappointed. Sorry Okay. then Okay loses the baby. They know there's no baby, right Lose his imaginary baby. All right. so he quickly realizes that Sandra loves money. Who amongst us though? I'm going to go ahead and be fair to her. Stop casting stones. This goes super Bible really fast So she's like pushing him to make more money. She takes out a big life insurance policy on him. Dang. he tells yes, they should do something at like when you're in All state and someone comes in and they're just like, yeah, I'm just kind of forty five and I don't know, I feel like looking into a humongous life insurance policy. And then people are like, hold on, nine hundred and eleven, what's your emergency. I don't know what the emergency is yet, but it's gonna be bad I call there's like a future crimes hotline, I guess. Hello, mininority repeport. Who's this I was trying to up, but I was going to say the matrix.'s not So I didn't do it Hello the Matrix, may it help you Oh, no, no, no, you w want to call minority repeport. Okay. Good luck phone bits. Why haven't we been doing them all along It was a great idea, K. Al the oldest phone we could be using This' the iPhone ten. Hello? Well what do they do now? this? Yeah, hello, hello. That's stupid. Hell looks so stupid. It's this. Why didn't you text me Okay, well, we're not friends anymore. Okay We're not friends anymore. now I have three huge zits right here. Okay, o, he tells his friends that Sandra, guess how much money she spends a month on clothes, food and travel. I guuess how much clothes food and travel? guess how much a month she spends? A month. Okay. Well let's talk about how much I spend a month on clothes. zero. Karen, as Jewish friend, I need to tell you, you can gonna start spending more money on clothes. I have Catholic permission to buy more clothes. Yes Um I'm gonna say and it's the eighties, right? five thousand dollars. twenty thousand dollars. What The fuck. How fun of a month would that be if we could do that, you guys? If we just had one month where we could do that, we would have the best fucking month. But what' she doing like going to New Mexico four times? N o. I don't know. It's the thing of when people buy expensive clothes because we're all like, It's a lot of clothes out forver twenty one. Yeah. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no adults shop at real places. That's right. forty one year olds shop at real stores. Yeah, that's so many shirts that are gonna to pull apart in three days. Why would she waste that money? Right. So she could have bought like two power suits and that's it. you know, And they were that's how much they were. We don't know Okay In november nineteen eighty five, the couple separates because of all this the money problems she's a crazy liar So He moves in with a friend and they didn't see each other for several weeks And then in december nineteen eighty five, Sandra calls him and is like, let's me at the storage facility we rent because we need to get this stuff out. No. No, thank you. No. Never meet anyone at a storage facility. Why not say meet me in the middle of the desert, Bring your own shovel? No I met my dad at a storage facility once. What? I met my dad at a storage facility once but I survived. It was really depressing because weed I helped him clean his storage facility out. so that's just as bad. But they're like It's such a strange like desert of nothingness and weird secrets that people have behind some garage door. I would have not met anyone else I know. at a storage facility. That no I'm so mad at him. Yeah. Okay Theyre trying to make me take things home. Do you want this? No, I don't want that Throw it away, Dad. Throw it away. It's gonna be okay. Just a weird old mug from McDonald's So they're going to meet at the storage facility and he doesn't show up Right? Oh, so she says. Next thing we know he is found slumped over in his Bronco in Oklahoma He had been killed by gunshots to the head and chest Um And it was apparent that his body had been driven to Oklahoma in that car. Oh, I don't know how they knew that, but that's the story I want to say what I think it is, but it's inappropriate What? Don't tell me. I won't Tell me Just his hair was blown back It made me say it, and now I'm the fucking bad guy. It's not. It's sad Within sad things, that's when my mind starts going, Isn't there something funny about this sad thing that we could say? And that's when you laugh at a woman who just told you her sister's side. That's how the world works. That's yeah How you too I'm all right. Are you warm? You're hot. you're warm. A I hot? Yeah. o. Okay. He So Sandra's a suspect, but she's totally uncooperative. She won't speak to anyone and she won't let anyone speak to her daughters who are older now. And that this time she becomes known as the black widow and Dallas in high society, Dallas starts talking mad shit about her all the time and like, do you know about this thing? Do you know this thing she did? And everyone's like, oh, fuck, this woman's crazy Harty' planned specifically to talk shit about her. Because that's the third husband that's died, right? Yeah withithin in their purview. Right. You'd be like, byy the canopipies we have shit to talk about U over. Bak out the caviar. Everybody, get a scoop of caviar and sit down. I'm going to tell you something Exactly So Also, which is highly unusual, the FBI fucking gets in onto the murder probe and they're like, Oh, I thought you meant the gossip FBI, guess what I heard. Sorry She's of course a suspect when they get a phone call from an anonymous woman called The Highland Park Deep Throat, which is like some on so many levels, where it's not creative or first of all it makes everyone think of JF K and Nixon Oh Is someone's dad here tonight? I mean absolutely. At least four of them And then she scrimps again on funeral expenses, least expensive casket, convinces friend to cover the burial bills because she forgot her wallet at the funeral. Okay, bitch. No you're going to a funeral, you're not gonna be like, let me grab my wallet. You know what I mean No, yes, you are. Your wallets in your purse. You're not a man. You didn't forget it on the counter. It's all in that one satchel that women have carried since the dawn of time. Okay. So go ahead and throw that on your shoulder every time you leave the house and that would never happen to you. You're right. You don't imagine walking into a funeral freehand like that. just like Hey, I'm grieving Where do I put my hands? It makes no sense. It's that friend who always goes out with that and didn't want to carry her purse. and so you have to pay for her dinner, except you have to pay for her husband's funeral that's like High society scumbag action, right there D d d. Okay. An she was late for the services Of her own husband's funeral? Yeah. He doesn't give a shit no She arrived at the very last minute, dressed the nines in a fucking mink coat. no. No Shit. She rolled up like ludicrous at the funeral. She was just like There, She's like, what's up Oh Tom me. That's Oh my God Uh huh, Jesus. And by this time she had gotten the two hundred twenty thousand dollars from the life insurance Less than a year after his death, she gets the fuck out of Dallas for good because I think everyone is just talking so much shit. Just like, sorry, let me light this torch real quick. relelocates to Marin County. Oh, that's in the North Bay of California. near you. Kind of near me.. Marin County is the richest county in California, I believe. Yeah. And my county was Snoma County, which we had the most chickens A Proud, proud fact. impressive Okay, so then of course she's still fucking hot and beautiful and no one knows she changes her name. no one knows her past And so one man loans her twenty three thousand dollars there. anotherother man loans her seventy thousand dollars the dude she's hookking up with. Neither of them saw penny of it back and even though they had both brought her to court and So she moves around a lot from there using social seecurity numbers of other people, takes out credit cards. And other people's names, including her three kids, of course, whose fucking credit she destroyed which' like, o, I always hate those stories. That's your least favorite part of the story is so important. Good credit In two thousand six, she resurfaces in North Carolina and began using the name Camille Camille Bowers And she tells everyone that she is not a nun, but like a religious person, I guess. And she does like she goes to India to take care of children and build houses and stuff. Is this the mother Tsa story? Y? This is how Mother Teresa started So she's telling all these people that. And so she moves in with a woman named Sue Mosley. She's a seventy seven year old woman who lived in a million dollar home on the Carolina coast She's incredibly wealthy. and she was basically going to live in the house and take care of the housework and she'd get free room and board, which is like, that's fucking sweet. signign me up So Then of course, she sets to work taking over this woman's finances. She collected tax records, rerouted her social security payments to a new account, took money off theortage, siphoned off the mortgage money. She'd like intercept the money. and then she'd get the mail every day and it was like, yourour house is gonna get foreclosed on and she'd be like, Shred d you know what do? Yes, that's how I do everything So she just fucking uses all this woman's money. She goes to, she's like, I'll go with you to the bank. S, let's run an errand and then like meets the teller so they like know her. and she's like, Whatever So then her son, Jim Moseley gets really suspicious. and in early two thousand seven, he comes across a lengthy newspaper report in the Dallas observer chronicling Sandra's life. Oh, and the reason she left Marin is because in the D magazine, fuck our friend Kip Hollandworth wrote like a tell all about her People saw it in Marin and she was like, you gonna get out of. Are you serious? Yeah So finally, with working with police, there's with Jim, there's a sting, police sting, which sounds fun. And on march second, two thousand seven, she's arrested in Charlotte, North Carolina, and she's charged with identity theft fraud. thride Tucking froud is so much worse than froud, you guys Theft and fraud, Yeah, fraud. Theft and fraud. Let's make this easier. Quicker. Fraud. Mail thief theft. and social security fraud. They Wait, sorry, but can you imagine you're like there's like, oh, my elderly mom has a new young roommate who really has an interest in her life The bank. And then you pick up a magazine that has an entire article about this woman And how she maybe killed husbands and a woman? Yeah ye murders people. Mders maybe Pck anduts. Okay. So because of that, they knew interest in the death of Alan Rarig is renewed. Oklahoma, City police put new resources and manpower into the investigation In february two thousand eight, Sandra Camille Powers pleaded guilty to one count of identity theft And at her fucking trial, the mother of Alan is in the fucking audience just being like, yeah, bitch, I'm gonna come out. She wears a pin with her son's face on it just so she she said I wanted her to see his face and know that I'm fucking not giving up on this. Yeah. So yeah, fucking moms Damn Yeah So she's in prison and they are looking into the deck and they're not giving up on it. Nice, that is your black widow, Sandra Bridewell. You guys That was amazing You know what I think would be fun? H We should ask Stehven, because you know Steven puts that we find those pictures and then he puts them on those amortises basically. We should tell him, put up one