Decluttering and Consumerism Psychology

Okay, I just got back from New York. I was there for a week. It was probably the most fun business trip of my life. And I wrote down five bullet points I have here that I think we could dive into. And the first one I want to dive into is I feel like I can rule the world I know I could be what I want to I put my all in it like a days on the road, let's travel, never look. When was the last time you've been to New York City? Oh, dude, it's been like ten years since I've been to New York. L I just don't really go Well,, you had a great time. That's good. Whenever people come here, I feel like I want to be a steward where I want to be like, look, it's not that crazy to live here and it could be awesome. And it's exciting. And I'm not like one of these guys that's like I'm not a Nicks fan. I'm not like a New Yorker. I just live here. So I don't want to like pretend that I'm like a, you know, that type of person, but I felt proud to show you around Yeah, and you did. also I think a lot of people had that New York because they'd be like, hey, we're going to hang out with this person. And it would be half hang out, half city tour. because there's A, there's a lot going on and B, I think there's a lot of pride in like knowing the city and being a part of the city and bringing friends from other places to the city, which I think is pretty cool. So A One is trust Trust as a service The next one is marketing Third one, proximity. The fourth is city brands. The fifth is what is it really? Okay, so those are my five my five key phrases. which one you want to start with Number three Proximity We use that word all the time Pxim So what do I mean by proximity Proximity is being closely together. So I want to read you some notes from of my one of my hangouts So I hunang out with with the comedian Husin Minhaj and he's been on the pod before. He's listened in the pod. sometometimes we've gotten to become friends from afar. And I got to go to his office and hang out and meet his team and see how they work. I'm a big fan of watching how different people work, you know, go to their office, that sort of thing He saw that me and Ben were together. now Ben lives in Austin. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area. So we're not together we don't work together in the same office, but him and his team do in New York City. He commutes in from like wherever, Connecticut or something like that to the city to work Is his main job his podcast I don't know if I don't think he would say that. I think his main job is Just being a creative of which a podcast takes up maybe half of his pie chart and the other half his movies and his tours and things like that So it's like Netflix specials, those sorts of things. So he said this thing, he goes As soon as you walk into a creative office and there's the hot secretary in the all glass windows and the fancy matcha in the in the kitchen, he goes, you've already lost the plot. You've already forgotten what it's all about. And so he was like he took he's like he's like, it's not about all that stuff. It's not about the glass and the hot secretary and the matcha. It's not about any of that. It's about this and he hands me the yellow legal pad where he's handwriting his script And he's like it's about these sticky notes on this wall. and it's not even enough space, but we got to figure it out actct one, act two, act three. this is the work And he goes, I wanted it to be tight I wanted us to have close proximity. He's like, it's a covalent bond. And he was talking about the power of proximity. He goes, you know what? I even take it further. he goes. Whenever anyone's in New York Are're in N York right now? Come to the office. comeome hang, come be a part of this. You need to work for a day? Here, come work right here Oh you're shooting this movie. You need a place for hair and makeup Do it right over there. He goes, because it's when you're here and we're just doing things, you know, we get to sort of bump into each other. like, you know, our atoms get to bump into each other. goodood things happen. I pick up a little bit of what's going on in your world. I figure out a way to help you. You figure out a way to help me That proximity I realize is something I really miss. You get it a lot in San Francisco in the tech world. New York, I would say, is even a level above that because It's even denser Everything feels very high proximity like we did different thing every hour I would say, like we were hanging with somebody, you know, for probably ninety minutes at a time and then we would go do something else. There was no more than like ten minutes of transit time between anything that we were doing. It was insane. We werere just hopping from one thing to the next. And so I thought His note on proximity, proximity with your coworkers, proximity with Hers who you think are interesting and rememembering like what is it all about? Is it about the space and the gloss and the remote work and all that stuff or is it about The sticky notes in the close proximity and spelling smelling each othererss, you know Theater Yes, but also like the time that you were here, you were going going going, you got nothing done. you know, I think that you were educated, you were inspired, you which is important. And also if I'm Hassan and I'm writing all the time, which I kind of am for this podcast. like two hours before this podcast, I need quiet time. No one talked to me. I'm in a room by myself. So he actually gave me some good inspiration for that too So he goes, I'm here, you know, whatever, a couple of days a week and we stack it because I met up with him. I think I went to his office like tenesine, rightight? Yeah. Yeah it was like I was with you at dinner And then I was like, hey, we gott to go meet someone. They're like, what? And we went. I think I got to his office at nine thirty or ten. Was it peoplee were there H and his whole team was there. I thought he was just maybe hanging out for us. No he was in a meeting. We waited for him for, you know, twenty thirty minutes And then we hung out for another two, three hours, thenen he took the train home. It was insane. he goes, no, no, these days, I stack him. I tell my person like, you know, top to bottom meetings, media meetings, like, Wow, that's where we're talking. It goes because then the next three days quiet time And he said I think what he did was he like, he's like, I rented a office space above andnd in donoughuts. like the smallest little writer's room you can imagine He's like, can I go there when it's writing time The other thing we said he said was he goes We were talking about like maker's time versus manager's time like the program essay And you got to know which which schedule you're supposed to be on. Are you on a manager schedule? Well, every thirty minutes to back,re know, you're contact switching,'re meeting a different group, you're making decisions. O on maker's time where you need long blocks of uninterrupted creative time feel unproductive for an hour of it, but you needed that time to kind of get in the groove and then then you get flow state and you start start working. And he goes, I told my team like I need to be above this duncan. I need to be in that room alone, No Wiifi, no nothing. not just me in the legal pad.'t I don't even take a laptop because I could produce pages. When I produce pages, it's like a magic trick. Money rains from the sky when I do that. So you got to give me time to generate these pages. Dud I don't know, just took a lot of inspiration. When you meet someone who's creative and an artist at the top of their field. It is feels very different than just meeting an entrepreneur. You know, There's a couple different like inspiring versions of this. If you walk into like Elon's factory where he's building things, right? Or when we did the Mrter Beast Tour, he's like, this is the largest sound stage in America. That guy's trapped in that room for a year and we're building this set over here' an athlete or when you talk to an athlete and you see their schedule and you see how they think about all these little things. How seriously they take their body, The recovery? Forget the workout. The recovery is impressive And so there's these these little pockets of like world class people When they make you realize like, oh, that's what it looks like when you dial up to twelve, whether it's athleticism or whether it's building, or in this case It's about the creative process, creative work. And so that was pretty inspiring So you have I went to your office too. and got to see, you know, you built basically a place for proximity. In what ways do people underrate it? in what ways does it unlock you? Gim me give me something on it Yeah, so I need I have a door right over here and it has a recording light on there. So no one people know not to come in here right now. And I keep that on a lot even when I'm not recording, but then every probably forty minutes, I quit what I'm doing and I just walk around and people get mad at me at my office because they're like, you're just sting at me and And I'm like, no, I just want to pop in on different conversations and listen. And I do that all the time. I think that there's phrase What's it called like managing by wandering where it's like, you know, like the CEO would like walk around like the factory floor with zero intention other than just to learn and see what's going on and occasionally find a problem and help solve it. And so I do that all the time and I love it. It makes me happy. And so there's a joke where you can kind of see it. We have like frosted glass now because they say that I would just like stare at people in the office. but like Iort complaints. Yeah, sometometimes I'll just like pop into meetings and I'll just sit and I won't say a word and then I'll walk out. And I love doing that because it helps me learn what's going on and how people feel and what people's opinions are. And I frankly love doing that. but I do require like lots and lots of quiet time Yeah, it's like a barbell strategy, right? You want to have extreme high contact Ground truth is proximity, serendipitous interactions, and then you want to have structured isolated thinking time, working time that's like highly secluded. And that seems to be the optimal is to be able to have the ability to go far in either direction and not just stay in like kind of like weak middle where it's like a lot of Zoom calls and You know, some slack messages and a bunch of light touches, but never really going deep on anything with any people or any work. And I also hired a cheap designer. My office isn't particularly fancy, but I wanted it to look like aesthetically pleasing because I wanted to be here. So I took a little bit of a different route than him. What's what are the other few All right, so I had All right, so this episode is all about excellence A while back, I shared my personal framework for building excellence in my own life, and the team at HubSpot turned it into a thirty day operating system that you can check out right now. It breaks down the systems that have took me ten years to figure out and shows how exactly I use them day to day These are systems that genuinely changed my life So if you want to build a good life scan the QR code, or click the link in the description Now let's get back to the show I had marketing, I had trust, I had city brands, and I had what does it really mean What's it really mean Okay, so this has been a long recurring theme. What I mean by that is everybody's typically looking for some new insight. I actually value a repetitive insight because it means there's more to learn It means there's probably higher signal. likeike if I hear if the same lesson comes up three or four times in a two year span. I add more weight to it. Whas I think most people Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I think that's how most people treat things that they've heard before. So I think on this podcast I mentioned a couple years ago I was at an event The guy from Tiny. Andrew and his business partner, Chris, who's much less well known and of sitting at dinner And this guy was talking about a business he had failed in. And he said the thing that ever y'all, you know, but But I learned so much. And then Chris goes, what did you learn And then the guy's like, oh, so much. He goes So what's the main thing you learned? And then the guy was like he' fumbling and stumbling. He couldn't really figure out what to say. And then he said something that was like I don't remember the specific example now, but it would be like if I If I had started a restaurant and my restaurant failed And then I was like I learned you shouldn't start a business when it's rainy season That's what you learned. it was like that, you didn't even learn the right lesson. And Chris basically pointed this out. he goes, I've talked to so many entrepreneurs. He goes Very rarely Do I feel like somebody actually learned the right lesson? from the thing And this kept coming up, you know, this has come up for me many times. And so what does it really mean? I think is a very important question. I don't think people sit with enough. And so let me give you maybe a couple of examples. So we met up with Gary Ves R hand man, Nick Dio, who we've talked about on this podcast for a very unique job. So Gary V, big public persona, but he can't be everywhere at once. So he's got this guy Nick, who's his right hand man and he's basically an extension of Gary. Nick will host dinners for people that people in the Gary orbit, who thinks are cool. they just they pay the bill, they bring cool people together. Gary's not even there. He met up with us. He's like, I just got off a flight from the what is it Khan film Festival. And he was there all week in Paris and then was like, oh, you guys got to come next year. And Gary Gary tell everyone that he went to Chan? Well, I think Gary was there in this case, but it's like they needed more manpower And so we were talking to him and I was like, u The simple explanation that everybody, you know, I kind of asked him was like, what does everybody think you do? He's like, Ohh, everybody thinks I basically Just go party. And like, you know, a drink and dine wine and dine with, like, you know, Gary S. So what do you what do you really do And it's very interesting when you ask somebody what do you really do? And he goes, that's a He goes, you know, most people don't really ask that, but you know, I think you're genuinely asking So I'll tell you. And he gave me two stories that I thought were pretty dope. The first thing he said was he goes He goes Every room that you're ever in, socially. There's some slack the room is slacking in some way. So he goes, there's a social slack that nobody can really put their finger on But maybe the music's tooou, Mbe it's little too cold. Maybe that guy doesn't know who to talk to. Maybe the drinks or may maybe there's no drinks. we all need some drinks. Maybe it's there's two groups that don't really know each other. They haven't bridged the gap yet in this room. Maybe they will in three hours, but can I do it in the first thirty minutes because it'll change the way the night goes He goes there's always this social slack in the room. What I'm really great at is identifying that social slack picking it up, finding a way to like stir the drink so that it tastes better of every room that I'm in And people don't really even necessarily notice what I did, but the goal is to elevate the experience for everybody in the room But they benefit from it in some capacity. And what's an example Yeah, exactly. So he gave a couple of examples. So I don't know if you saw this when the Nicks won the championship The there was a viral clip of of Jayalen Brunson toasting in this small restaurant. And he basically was like F WMby. And then somebody had recorded, he didn't mean for it, but somebody had recorded it and it leaked and it like got out and it went like meg viral. Well, that was happening. the Kicks after their championship game, they went to Gary's social club, his place flyfish and they were in the room we were in where they have this like omakase sushi room and And that's he's like, dud dude, that was the chair right there. Look, watch the video. This is this this is the exact spot And so he's like, you know, through the relationship building I had done When they decided, hey, we want a cool place to celebrate, they decided to come here That's obviously very good for the brand of like, if that's where the Kicks celebrate the first championship in fifty years, it's obviously going to be very good for our restaurant chain, not for our concept, right? That's pretty cool. And it's good for our members clip. So that's like one example. He gave another example of like being very intental so he's like If Gary starts to get into wear and new fashion U then he's like my he's like, then I basically go and I try to meet the hundred and fifty most interesting people doing interesting things in streetwear in fashion. And I go into them with no agenda I'm just trying to meet them, understand them, help them, do whatever I can with them. But now they're part of our network. and then Sure enough, likeike one of them's rais money. We invested in it and boom, it's this like, you know, this hit product that that comes out of He's like, we didn't know going in that would be the win Who knows? It could have been something else completely, but we don't we don't have to know where. We know we have like Five touch points It's like, maybe that they're gonna come on the podcast, Maybe it's going to be an investment, Maybe they're going to be friends, Maybe they're really insightful. They'll teach us something. Maybe it's who knows what it is? I don't need to know what it is up frront. I'll go in with no agenda and pick it up on the other side All right, everyone, I'm gonna make this quick. So if you're no G listener of my first million, then you might remember a guy named Ben Wilson. Ben Wilson was Saanon Ey's producer early on in the podcast. He also has his own amazing podcast called How to Take Over the World, which we love. And he's been battling cancer and he just announced it. We've known about it for a little while, but he just announced on Twitter the other day. And the reason I'm talking about it here is because when he made his announcement, he did say that he had to go fund me that you should check out. You should look him up on Twitter and he linked to that. But he also explained that he had stage four high grade Neuroendocrine carciionoma, which I don't know too much about that But he says that his brains, his bones, his lungs and his liver, and he's trying to get hold of a very specific and uncommon type of drug Cob Par la tamab. I'm sorry, I can't pronounce these things, but it's a very specific thing. And so if you have ever gotten value from my first million And alsoso if you are in this world, we're just trying to raise awareness for what Ben's going through, then you can look up Ben Wilson on Twitter. He has a sixteen minute video that's quite inspiring where he addresses his diagnosis and what he's facing and is I find it actually quite inspiring. He's got this amazing line where he's like, you should live like you're living, not live like you're dying. And so you should watch that. But also if you do want to support him via his goo fund mee, and also he leaves his contact information. So if you're in this world where you can help him in any way, his information is all there. So look him up Ben Wilson on Twitter. We'll also link to this in Spotify, iTunes and YouTube Gary's easy to make fun of because first of all I love him. I think he's awesome. I'm not making fun of him, but people give him a hard time online because he's like loud and he's been doing content and he says silly fun stuff. And this is another thing where people would maybe mock like, oh, he just hires this guy to go party for him. So so I wantan to acknowledge that but I think this is awesome. I think that Gary has done so many things that have been a bit ahead. and and he makes a ton of predictions that he's not a right all the time. But like the fact that he's like been doing social media like he's been doing for forever and he was totally right. And then just like having this, I'm like This sounds like ridiculous and awesome and it could be very beneficial Yeah, Yeah, exactly. I think I told him, I said, This is the equivalent of if you ever hear that stat that LeBron James spend a million dollars a year in his body, And it's like, whoa, that's lot. likeike, you, is you crazy? And it's like, No, are you crazy LeBron James his body is the product. Of course, he's going to what an incredible return on investment. He's now playing in year twenty three in the NBA. like I think that million dollars just unlocked another forty million dollars contract Twice Like arere you joking? That's obvious. So what is the equivalent in your nation is a very good It's one of my favorite like kind of thought experiments questions. L what would be the equivalent of spending a million dollars a year on your body for whatever you do. I think I've told this story about like My executive coach, he spent a million dollars of his own money learearning from the best coaches of all the different modalities. L if somebody's really good and like whatever somatic I don't even know what that is, but like whatever. He'll go find the best in the world. He'll approach them and be like, Hey, is there any way I get kind of two weeks of immersive one on one training in this, name your price And he did that with like you know, fifteen to the best coaches in the world over a period of two years and like spent a million dollars and because of it he's like A, what a cool experience and B, like I made myself more valuable as a coach because I now like I'm well versed in different different domains that I got. And I started with a deep dive with the world's bestest. then I continued for years after that of my own self practice All right, go to number four, I think it was New York Brands. Yeahes, city brands. I think it's really interesting how there's only a few cities in the world that have brands. Like New York has a brand. New York has a look It has a feel, it has a sound, it has an attitude, it has an aura, it has a reason to go there. Like any great brand, it has loyalists who swear by it. It has haters Like I grew up in Houston. Houston has no brand Got a lot of people. It'sot a good sizeed economy. What's the brand? Like' like' kind of a gas town kind of. What does that even mean? It's just that it's kind of new. Like oil and gas is like a relatively new thing. It's only many I mean, it's many decades, but yeah, it's kind of new. But like Detroit, you know has one, I think New York has one, but yeah a lot of places don't. Las Vegas has a brand, San Fancisco, L.A have a brand. New York has There's not that many places that have brands and I think It's kind of a miss you know, like, u, I think if you're if you're actually like When trying to make a city attractive, you want to have a brand and be intentional about it. I actually think I told this to an NBA team owner too Very few NBA teams have a brand And when you're not a brand, you're commodity. you're basically saying Coming and playing here is just the same as coming and playing somewhere else. Now there's a couple teams that have a brand Maybe because the city they're in, right? Miami? L A, New York. The brand is really the city, not the team. But there's one there there's been there's been a couple examples of team that have brands. I'm not a basketball guy at all, but like I know that like was it the seventy sixers or the pistons? Who was the tough guy? bad boys? The bad boys. Bad Boy Pistons is an example of a brand. They gave it a name. It was cool. They made merch, they brought players in that reinforced the brand. It became a thing. It embodied it stood for something. Some people hated it. They thought they were dirty. Other people loved it. They said they were tough. Or the Fab five in Michigan, I think. Fab five was an exactly. Fab five was another one. They wore all black socks, baggies shorts. What does a brand do? It has a look, an aesthetic, an icon, a visual, a brand, a logo And so the same thing right now, the only team I would say that truly has that kind of a brand is the Miami heat. They have this thing that every reference is called heat culture and say, oh, well, there's heap culture. And heap culture is basically like They don't it's kind of like Navy seals. likeike when you come you get weighed in every day with your weight and your body fat and you have to be under a certain body fat or you don't get to play And like a lot of other NBA teams cater to their stars and you know, they don't really They don't want to like the boat whereas Miami's like, no, this is heat culture This part of heat culture If you came here, you should know what heat culture is all about. If you think about the best companies, the best cities They have a culture, they have a brand. and then the people who There's people who get attracted to that who come there for that And when even people who are didn't come there for that, they will change their behavior to fit culture to fit the brand. I know that this place only rewards and respects peoplee who are bold, people who take action, people who do X,YZ, then I'm going to bring that version of myself to the party. That's pretty cool. That's a good observation. I think Yukon had that because I saw the sixty minutes guy or the coach on sixty minutes it was like people are like,, well, winning isn't everything. He's like at our culture winning is everything. Like we're here to win. And then I think SF has one SF has one, I would say it's a little less intentional And it's not really it's like there's the tech scene in SF. and then there's SF. SF kind of hates the tech scene despite it being the driver of growth in SF. And then there's the Tax sce, which has its own little brand. But it just kind of like stood out to me that like I think it's hard because there's nobody who like It's not a company, right? There's not like a Yeah, but the mayor has four years to kind of like someble. Yeah. but like, you know, who's the mayor? and are they the kind of world class leader that can build this? and then can you kind of hand it off from one person to the next? It's a really tough thing, but man, when you have it, what a competitive advantage? Becauseuse right? like you recruit You move there And so did our other friends that well we all visited. they all moved there. It's not like they were born and raised in Manhattan You know, it attracts talent. And when you attract talent, you attract certain type of people, you attract earning power, you attract all kinds of things. and then, you know, if there's a flywheel that spins. Hey, let's take a quick break. You know that feeling when strategy is done, The brief is written, everyveryone's aligned, and you realize someone still has to sit down and actually create all the content? That someone is usually you, and it's due tomorrow. Well, the Breeze assistant from Hubspot can help It works right inside HubSpot. You can draft a campaign copy, blog posts, emails, all in your brand voice, all using your actual customer data So you don't create just content, you create content that converts Check out hubspot. com, the Aentic customer platform for growing businesses What about the number one thing? What was number one Okay, so one person I bumped into at Gary V's club or whatever was this Instagram or creator called Jack's dining club Do you know that? Jack' he's the hottest thing. What is his exact name? He's a diner? He's like I follow him. I think he's twenty two or twenty three and has Tens of millions of followers. All right, Jack's dining room is the name and then he's got this brand called Yes Chef. So met this guy Jack And you know,en was like, Oh, dude, love your video. Everyone wass like, I love your videos. I was out of loop. I didn't really know any of his contentents. But I started I grabbed Ben's phone, I started watching some of his content Pretty fascinating what this guy' doing. The core video hook of what he's doing is We're here at the best sandwich place in Paris. This is a and then he's like he's got a sandwich. He's like, this is a cheheese and mayo, Dijon s, whatever. And he's like the croissant and he's like, dude this thing is and he takes a bite. He loves it. and This guy's brand is pretty incredible like He has these things he does now. haveave you ever seen his like reserve club? No, but he has a whole suite of brands called Yes Chef Go to his Instagram and watch one of the reserve videos if you can see it Basically it's these like, you pay like a thousand or more than a thousand dollars like, you know, say thousands of dollars to go as a group of like, let's say ten on like an unreal culinary experience. like we get on a private jet, we fly to this place, on the jet, there's a the best sushi chef is making, you know, Omakasee on the on the plane. then we land, we get the champagne. It's just like some overly indulgent like like a dinner on the sand in a fancy beach Yeah, but like, look who's there. It's like Machine G Kelly L Diaprio. These are like fans of his content They're like, I've seen your videos. I actually tried that restaurant because I saw that you had you said they had the best chicken sandwich in LA. I drove an hour to go get there. and he's like, wow That's incredible, Leonardo DiCaprio. Thank you for than you for saying that. Dudy. And then it says like if you go to his Instagram, it goes to Yes, Chef guides, yes chehef Festival, Yes Chef Reserve, Yes, Chef suppupply, Yes Chef run club, Yes, Chef group. He has a whole like around this whole ecosystem gone. All right, so so what was I thought really interesting about this was just the idea of trust. So when we were When we were in New York There was these Every place we went to was like, this is the hottest. The hottesteakhouse in New York, the hotest I was like you gott to stop saying that. these can't all be the hottest restaurant. How How many hottest restaurants in New York are there? It's just kind of word of mouth thing. and one thing I thought about was like, Man, there's brand if you think about this the general idea of If I really wanted to have great food, who do I trust to tell me where the great food is in any city. It's like a yeah, I don't know, smart friend Well, smart friend, but that smart friend has to be like, well traveled, well versed, like, you know, who, not everybody had this guy's job, Jack, he's basically Your boy, who knows the spot in every city And I thought, man, he's kind of sitting on a goldmine of trust. I think trust is going to be the thing that is in lowest supply over the next ten years. Like, dude, every video I see on Inagram, I'm like, is this fake You know, when whenever I see like an ad, I'm like, okay, that's an ad. And then I see a normal funny video. I'm like, that might have been a deep fake yesterday, I saw this insane thing where you can create like a You do see character So it'ayss a new er of inflencing, right? So like, check this out You you see this girl Okay, so it's a pretty They're all pretty like insam fl realistic. I don't know if you see the detail. hyper realistic lookingoo person, right? This is AI generated person. But then it's like, it will we can keep the character exactly the same So the face, the eyes, the jewelry, the style, the hair. And so you have one character and it sayss one character endless content. So like This is like catfish heaven, right? Like I'm going to be able to make this character. then I'm going to be able to put her in every scene. She can be the face of my brand. She could just be an influencer on her own. She could do videos, she could do anything And you're just going to be able to create a hyper realistic looking person post content for them and no one will ever know that this entire thing is fake. And like Even if this is only mildly impressive toute, this is very impressive to me, but if this is mildly impressive toute, cool fast forward twel months We're going into like fakeness around the world. And what happens when everything is easy to fake becomes incredibly important. That's craz. I think podcasters like us are well positioned because people know we're real human beings And like in a flood of endless content, you're just going gravitate towards people you trust I think this guy Jack is sitting on a gold mine of trust. So where do you get food recommended today? Yelp. Yelp is the default answer And it's like, dude, yel Scks. I've never seen anyone be like God, I love Yelp so much. like, you know, I trust Yelp so much. Yelp Yelp always knows the best place to go when I want ramen in my city And so I was like, this guy and I pitched him this idea. I was like, look, you're selling hats Wonderful You're selling these like thousand dollars you know, fun private jet experience. I'm sure that's a blast. But it's obviously not that scalable as a business I was like, you should create Jack's list as Yelp. You should try to compete with Yelp. You should create an app that I just say I want the best burger, the best pizza, the best taco, the best ramen in any city And you better have it. And it's your pick. It's like, here's number one, maybe number two or three. and that's it. That's the whole app And I was like, that is what you should do with this trust is you should go after Yelp. Is he gonna to do it? And then him and his business partner were like, ah Yeah, but blah blah blah And I was like I was so convinced I was like Actually, you know what? you're right How about did I just build it And you just let me use your name and face, all right? You just give me you just give me the I'll give you you don't believe in it? Great I'll give you ten, twenty percent. L let me build this because I'm so bullish on this idea that like he should create this as the How do you do like a huge swing, a like five hundred million you know to two billion dollars swing as a creator Every video you have gets a hundred thousand likes of people who are like wishing that they could go to this place That's incredible. That's like, you know, that that's an unbelievable, you know, ten million people are watching you eat this froyo in Vermont If that's really the best for you in Vermont, like you should just create your list and curate it and have it be the trusted place way more trusted than Yelp. I think trust is sort of like, you gold right now. I've been what's the thing called Soro? What's the music one?? So. I bought a subscription there a while back and like I taught my daughter how to pee on the potty because we have a song We made this artist called Noah Flan. You know, he's kind of like Noah Khan but he's like I don't know, the cheap ers, J we call it Noah Flan. And we have a song called Let It Flow and it's him singing like What's the Elsa song Let it go. let it go. And you know, it goes let it letow, let it flow. let the pee fall from your body. Let it flow. let it flow pee into the potty. Let it And it's like this like folk song And it' so what Is on your phone? playlay. Yeah, let me see. Hold on the bathroom quick. There's nothing in your way. Listen. Pull those pants right down And your feet is Take a breath, relax and hear it come. That's it. Let it floow, let it fl. That reall from all b let it floating. Let it floows se It's great, right? What it is shit. Okay, Miss Rachel,. So I created Noah flan because I'll be like, hey, you I could tell she has to go the potty, I'd be like, Hey do you want to let it flow at Noah flan And like, well, you know, we'll sing. And so'm creating I'm creating a series of songs for like I use pudo all behaviors for like all behaviors. And like because I hate listening to like the same Moana song over and over again. I like like folk music. I'm like, I'm just gonna make something that I think you might like and I will like. And so now we sing like let it flow Let it flow. a great pseudo prompt word, by the way. Because if you say folk, it becomes almost too T fky Americana. Just use the word Americana.' a good It'll add a little bit of that edge you want in it. Well, now I have Noah Flan. L he's like a saved character. And so I actually like I made a YouTube page for it. and I'm like uploading his songs. And so anyway, like AI has been awesome. I know that we can hate on it, but like that's not real artists, but I'm tell you what, we love Noah Flan We said go flow on ear. What was start You know the whered it's going when it start's like putull your pants down. It's like,, what's going on? Well we have this there's this company called Live Lve u love every, you know, love every Yeah, like the toy companyies here. Yeah yeah, it's like a toy company. And they like send these books and we got we bought a book for them on potty trading and like They tell a story about a kid going poop. and like he's like, oh, I ate these pancakes. my stomach is growling. And then they show them on the toilet. and then they actually show the poop. And I'm like, that's disgusting. And it totally worked. It totally helped her. And so what I'm learning is that when you like have to like teach children things, you need to be pretty explicit in the stuff that like a grownup doesn't necessarily want to talk about. I talk about it anyway. And it like goes into like detail. like you have to push and it falls out of your body. L these things actually helped her and it's pretty freaking gross, but like, yeah, that's what I'm doing No Fan. By the way, I was I was very touched and impressed by seeing you as a dad in New York House. I wantan to give you a shout out You're a great dad I don't know if you know you're a great dy. I think you do I think you actually do know I work really hard at it. I try really hard at it. I try so hard. I think I told you when we I had kids, I was like, I finally have found my mission in life. I work really hard at being a good dad. Yeah, you were like, what you say you learned from your mom? you said, talkalk to them like they're adults and feed them like they're adults. And know, at dinner, I was sitting next to your daughter. And she was like, past the green beans. And I was like, what's E. I was so stned I didn't do it. she's like, green beans. And then I gave it to her. Well, I just remember like going up and seeing people and I'm like, why does the kid menu exist? Like, I'm just gonna give them the same like we're just doing the same thing.. Yeah, you're a great dad Thank. All right. so what was my other one? Okay, marketing. There were some great one liners that the marketing nerd and me loved. I just want to say. So we were at this, what was the name of that like fancy stak something it had the number eighty six in the title. Yeah, yeah, like the eighty six or whatever.' is some restaurant. Really hard into G restaurant. Great restaurant, Great food. And the waiter brings out a box, like a treasure chest. And he's like, gentlem Have we dined here before? and we're like, no, not really And he's like, Oh, well, you're in for a treat. and he opens up he starts to open the treasure ch. He doesn't open it just yet Hey he's like, Can I tell you the story of, you know, and we're like, yeah, please. And he's like, So and he tells a story about how this restaurant, which is in New York, owns a farm in like Melbourne or something in Australia And they source their own Wagu beef, they raise them, they, you know They only feed them, you know, probiotics and skkittles or whatever whatever He was like, it was kind of funny. He goes About three weeks before we take their life, we feed them macadamia nuts and butter And that just really tops it off. he's like he's like And so the meat, the steak, just so you guys know almost like a warning. He's like, just so you guys know when the steak comes It's going to be incredibly soft. You can eat it with a spoon And I like, whooa, steak soft. you could eat it with a spoon. I was like, damn, that was a bar. So I just started writing down, like just I wrote that one down. I thought, well, that's a marketing kill shot right there. I kind of love that idea. becausecause again, how do you say in five words what somebody else could try to convince you of in five hundred and still not succeed at. He did the same thing with the knives. He opened it up, He goes, you see these steak knives These aren't normal stak knives. These steak knives are from nineteen thirty, which is the era that we this building was Teddy Roosevelt steak guyses peri heard aboutal Capone K eight here This was his knife. Like it was being blood on that one still. Yeah. was it was great. And then we were like So what about the spoon part? wasas that a figure of speech? Okay,, so that was one, another one again, in the restaurant space 'cause again, the restaurant marketing is off the hook here. This one restaurant's claim to fame they go And three different people told me the same thing about this restaurant separately They go Taylor came here twice in a row I was like, and so they make you have Taylor have two nights in a row. That's the lineine. Taylor Taylor came here two nights in a row. and I was like Dan, that's another kill shot like this. you forgot you this place is great. Taylor came here two nights in a row. I thought, wow. Okaykay, that's in the pantheon of like great, you know, one liners that says a lot Another another one. You gave me this one. Uh I was I was asking you about your denim collection I was like, so what why? why the denim thing? And you were like, I just you started talking about it, you go, it's like history you can wear And I go Is that their slogan? He go, no, I just said that. I was like, that should be their slogan. I thought that was an incredible line for whoever's the, you know, the higher Who's the power power that be in the denim world, but they need to they need to give you a little royalty and take that line. Yeah, like Levis can make like you know, instead of saying, we make it like they used to make it, U it's like, you know, u where history? Like, yeah, I think that's a it's actually a golden one And then I was talking to somebody else who has been incredibly successful at marketing and I go, what's's the What's the trick for what you're doing? How did you pull this off And he goes, everyverybody wants something. You just got to figure out what it is The rich want status and praise. The richen unknown wantant fame The famame famous privacy. He goes, So I just figured out how to create products for each of those use cases. So he's like for the famous people, I gave them privacy For the rich but unknown, I gave them a pathway to fame For the successful person who's got it all, they still want access into the right rooms and they want praise And he's like, you just got to know who you're selling to because it'll tell you how to sell it. And I thought, okay, that's pretty good. And I've heard this before in other versions. It's like, You sell a mom safety, you sell you you sell the busy parents time, you sell the woman, youth, you sell the male Um you know, power, basically you got to know kind of like, what's the what's the one word you're ultimately selling to a person Right? Yeah. like the one word of this podcast that we try to sell is inspiration And so we're going to talk about Hundreds of different people, hundreds of different cool things they've built, hundreds of different ways to be successful, hopefully so that you are ultimately inspired. Do some bad ass shit yourself. Like this is just a podcast where we shout out People doing things that we think are pretty bad ass and therefore, hopefully inspire somebody to do a bad ass thing in their own version of their life I I know I have felt this way and I still feel this way, even though I know it's wrong. Branding and marketing, but not marketing. I think everyone understands direct response marketing. likeike I put this much money in, I just do the thing that gets the highestick click through the rate and I click it. That's sort of like, that's fine and everything. But I think that like the great people understand that branding and marketing When I say marketing, I mean like brand marketing, it's not sticky. And then I remember thinking like, well, Mark Zuckerberg wears a hoodie. That's not branding. Of course, obviously, it is branding. But I was like, he it's all about utility And then I read Peter Tial's book What's it called? Zero to one? Zero to one. And he talks about secrets. and he talks about like what's your special sauce? And it's so funny that Peter Tial, he did two things that were interesting. He said branding is a moe. Branding is a secret that you can know. And then he goes, unfortunately, it's not a secret that I know. So I'm not even gonna write about it. That's like, do you remember that part of the book? He's like he acknowledges. He's like, I underestimated it, now I've come to appreciate it. I still don't know it or how to do it. Can't tell you about it. Yeah, he's like, I don't know anything about it But I know it's real And then we had Aaron Levy on the podcast. Aaron is a CEO of a company called Box, which makes entnerprise cloud software. You could dismiss that as being boring, whatever, but he's immensely successful. And we asked him what books he likes to read. He was like, if you're going to read any business books, just read these four or something like that. he listed off four books. he's like, if you read those, you're going to be amazing. And the first book that he said was a book called Positioning by this guy named Al Trout, I think his name is. I think he also wrote the twenty two Immutable Laws of Marketing of which Tim Fairres, That's like one of the only three books that he always says, like just read this one. And I just have noticed that when you're telling these stories I am in my head. I'm like, I'm taking notes right now where I'm like, by the way, it's Al Rese and Jack trrout. Sorry, Jack Tout and Al Rese. My big the takeaway that you said you like repetition, a repetitive thing that I find myself is getting into the day to day wheeze of my business and thinking, well, what's the ad click the rate? Okay, what if we just pointed a red arrow at this guy's face? It's going to get a higher click the rate? What if we did this But it's somewh it's these things that appear to be irrational, that aren't irrational at all that have the biggest needle moving difference. So making your brand associate with one word in the same way that Volvo does with safety or Lamborghini would do it with like, flashy or Ferrari with fast, whatever, or these other things that don't have an ROI right away like taking someone and saying hereere's the stake. You see the stake right here and then telling the story, you say that into in a meeting where people only care about numbers and they're like a cheaper steak and just sell at a higher margin, please. And I just I just think that when I'm hearing you tell the story, it's a reminder that I need to care about these things significantly more than I do. And I think probably everyone should It's incredibly hard to do and it takes a long time takes takes a leader who, I think has that core insight. Remember that kind of back to my point of like, what does it really mean? What is it really? Like what is it really? What is Apple really Why do we buy Apple? right? Because we're buying some version of design or simplicity, right? That's the positioning Apple still has over everybody is that they make simple, beautiful products So I think that you have to really like to distill, distill, distill, distill, distill I remember I was talking to Harmosi once and I go, What's your brand? And he goes. Oh, my brand, business And I laughed. I was like Business isn't a brand. Like I was like, that's just a word. He goes I want to own the word business. He goes And then, you know, he said this, I don't know if I would agree with this, but he's like, Crank Cardon owns real estate. I want to own business. I think what he meant was like on the in the world of like YouTube and content I wantna be the guy when you think of business And right or wrong, I thought there's incredible power in the focus and simplicity trying to own a single word And you know, you could disagree and say, why no, really that doesn't capture everything that we do. and no, no, no, we want to it's more nuanced than that And it's like, yeah, but you don't really achieve anything when you try to spread it all out too thin, R right? When you do the peanut butter strategy, you're spreading all across the bread And so I think there is a lot of value in trying to say, well, if it was a word, what would the word be And if it was a word, is that the word other people would associate with us right now? or is that just what we say internally? And if that was a word, like, are we doing that everywhere or are we only doing it in this one area And u Unfortunately, you don't usually like the answers to that stuff. There's like that quadrant of like urgently needed or not urgent and then above it it's like impact versus low impact. and like there's this quadrant of like, it's not urgent, but it's very impactful. And that's like the thing where you probably should spend time on, but you don't. This is like one of those things. Right, right. Those are all the marketing. Actually, there was one more marketing one that I think is pretty cool too. I'll give you this one too. So we had dinner at Probably the best Indian restaurant I've ever been to. If you've ever heard of Jim Kana, Jim Kana iss like this really famous Michelin Star restaurant in London. They have a sister restaurant in New York called Abassador's clubhouse, I think We went there with our friend who who runs their he doesn't run the restaurant group, but they they've launched a sauce line. So like, you know, how like Carbone started as a famous restaurant R their sauces Raos. I learned it's not Raouse. It's Ros.. They did the same thing And so this guy's doing it with Indian sauces. And so great dude, great dinner. we hung out. and you know, he was telling me about the business. and I had actually passed on investing on this Early on for one reason, which was I was like I don't know how many people cook Indian food at home. I get why pasta sauce is going to sell a lot of units because people make a lot of pasta at home M, how did you how did you come across this one? Be this isn' that's not in your wheelhouse? A friend had invested in it and said to Timmy And I should have I should have dug in more, but I also didn't really respect the story of this restaurant. So again Story comes before the sauce And what's the story here? So Same sort of Taylor came here two nights in a row type of story. like Oh, you know, X,Y Z celebrities are here The restaurant, I think has a hundred thousand person waitlist. L this is an insane number. Like giving a reservation there is like impossible The story of the group. there basically it was like one guy who partered with a chef and the restaurant wasn't doing so hot. And so he decides, even though he's got no Culinary experienced n. He's not a trained chef He fires the chef, goes into the kitchen, and takes over the kitchen.'s like, we're going to figure this out. Nine months later, they had a Michelin star whichich is unbelievable. That's like if I decided to play in the NBA and in nine months I was like or like, you know, the World Cup and I'm playing in the World Cup next next cycle. likeike it's insane to be able to do that And so they they pulled us off Ah yes, I've seen this. Oh my god, it looks amazing And so foods foods on really. you should go you stuff and go. So I was talking about sau thing I was like, yeah, I was like I just didn't think people were cooking Indian food that frequently at home. And he goes Oh you know, this is where Ro really helped us out. So there's a guy who came on our podcast, Rohanoza. he's the guy you might have seen on Shark Tank. I think we were the only podcast he's ever done. And took it took a lot of like twisting his arm to get him on, but he was amazing. He started, you know, he was involved in making smart water a success, Vitamin water a success Popy soda, which I have right here on my desk, like Popy' success. So he's been just a killer with brands Tons of brands by the, thoseose are only like three of like a dozen brands that you'll find in grocery stores that this guy's been like you know early and big on And I think Roe is incredibly gifted when it comes to to like, what is it really? right? Becauseuse when he when you talked about this popy thing. It was like, I think when they started, it was like apple cider vinegar a as a drink supplement. and he was like mother's miracle or something. He was like We need to make an soda. He's like, I grew up in Zambia drinking Coke and fanta and soda. He's like, we need this to taste like a fanta, but be good for you And he's like, I think that's where the where the market is. It's a similarly with Jim Connne, he goes We're going to make chicken gate again 'ice like, what? He goes, It's not about use this when you're going to cook Indian food once in a blue moon at home It's People who eat meat eighty five percent of their meals at home are chickened And what we need is for our sauce to make your chicken taste good and be less boring because it does. You add this sauceer to your chicken, your chicken's gonna to taste phenomenal. So it's not about the one day you're going to decide to make Indian food for all your friends and host an Indian food thing. Like who does that? That's pretty tough.'s pretty high risk What we need to do is make chicken graade again. And I was like, it's that sort of marketing genius that you need that can be the difference between this being a really niche fringe thing to being worth, you know three billion dollars you in five years. It's like that insight executed well. A lot of investors say they add value That guy added value by like giving you like the point of highest leverage to refocus the entire company around This is awesome. I'm looking at their website. By the way, that's like something that you'd make fun of like with a guy like giving a TED talk. It's like, we didn't stop there. You see, we move the office and like put the couch from here to here. It's like What do we have in common with our ancestors? Yeah cavemen T make great again. what? But it didn't make sense. And I'm like Because what's funny is like when you're copywriting. You want to use such detail that the person feels it in their bones. So for example, if you're selling like a weight loss thing or a gym product to a woman who's a little overweight, you're like I know why you always offer to take the photo when you're with your friends. Oh, that's a good one. I know how you feel. It's like you want to go after these thoughts where they're not always loud They exist and they're silent enough that When you someone says that, you think to yourself I don't know other people thought that. an incredible example. the quiet thoughts set out loud It So true. peoplee want to feel seen and understood. And some of the great marketers they describe this, they say If you could describe the problem in such great detail that the person feels completely understood, they will trust you fully that whatever solution you speak next because you understood the problem so well, they now believe that you understand the solution equally well. whereereas everybody else just sells the solution Yeah, so you have to think. you have to like this is the point when you're when you're copywriting an interesting idea. there's this thing called L general knowledge, and then there's specific knowledge. And general knowledge when you're doing copywriting is when you spend weeks just learning all about the industry, all about like stuff that may not even apply to it exactly. And then specific knowledge is when you learn about exactly how the product works. But you need that general knowledge to understand a vague idea. So for example, if you're doing like gym work or like a weight loss supplement, you know eventually you'll get to the specific knowledge where you're like, okay, so like the body loses weight by doing X, and Z and this product helps you by doing whatever. But the general knowledge is just talking to women and being like, so how do you feel? Uh like, well, I feel like fat or whatever. like you're, all right, but tell me more, tell me more, tell me more. And that's how you come up with these ideas where you're like, She said this, but this was below the iceberg. So I had to dig deep and I've noticed that this is like a common thread. therefore, that's the perfect thing that I can use in my marketing. So When you said that You need to make chicken gade again. Okay, that's that doesn't mean anything. but When you said Everyone wants to eat chicken but it's healthier but it's so boring and bland and you need a good sauce for it. That like hits because I eat chicken all the time. I'm like, I'm so boring of this shit. I don't want to eat this anymore. And so this is like a classic copywriting marketing stick of like general knowledge and learning how to to In positioning. So literally the positioning extends because it's you know what his makeshakeen Gadient is actually a strategy. It's not the marketing. it's the strategy And the strategy basically then is paired with the positioning, which is Is this A sauce cooking Indian food at home Or is this a sauce for having really flavorful, delicious chicken two totally different positions And then that extends, which aisle would you be in the supermarket? Beause there's aisles for pasta sauces and Asian ethnic sauces And then there's there's aisLles for toppers, you know, marinades, sauces, things that you put on meat And that's where you see like that butchun like Japanese barbecue sauce or whatever. It's an example where like I don't think a lot of people were really that into I'd like to just put I'm really looking for whatever this umami savory Japanese sauce is But if I'm looking for some you know some kind of Asian barbecue sauce to put on my food on my chicken, that sounds pretty good And it's in the right aisle. And so the positioning literally becomes physical in the aisle And then then you get down to like the actual actual marketing and then you say, oh, well, we should probably market to people who are eating a lot of chicken. Maybe that's people who are try to be healthy right now you know, the seven days a week of plain, you know, chicken breast is getting pretty old for them What if one day a week they were able to add our marinade or add our sauce on top And actually it only adds one hundred calories, but damn that thing changes the whole meal all of a sudden it'sopping And so then it becomes an actual marketing strategy. I did this with Hampton a bunch where I was like, what do people fear about building a company? And it took me forever. And I like I'm still working on it. But one of the emotions that I'm trying to get at is when you're building a company The biggest fear oftentimes is not like once you have a business that dready has a couple of million in revenue, it's not like is this going to fail? It's like I started at thirty two. am I going to be forty two years old and be like this thing barely grew And I just wasted a decade on something where I could have been working on a different opportunity and I just blew it all. And like that is like the fear for where like I'm thinking about for some of our marketing of like Well everyone has that fear and you don't talk about it out loud, but you like fear like I should do this other thing and this other thing. And I'm always fearful of that. And so Hampton helps by giving you a room of peers who could help you make big fifty million dollar decisions, not by yourself. And so you actually have peers around you. But like I spend a lot of time thinking about like, these phrases and words that you can use that aren't spoken often, but when they are, people just jump. Well, I li like the phrase fifty million dollars decisions just as that had resonance for me Let me give you one other example that's kind of in this like quiet thoughts said out loud. Right now we're in a big u like decluttering mode in our house that we're just like getting. Oh, you had a great line You had a great line for that, by the way. You made a joke. You're like I'd rather move than declutter this place. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We almost are like, we just need a new house. We need to start over. like it's that bad. Everyone feels that way. It's like, I'd r that's a really good one. I would if I was like a moving company or a cleaning company, well, my wife has start it, she goes because I was like, what what's gotten into you? Like you're every day, you're like just I used to really struggle to be like, Hey, let's get rid of this. this is junk. We don't need this. And I used to do that and then she would hang on to it. either for sentimental value No, we do need it once in a while. No, we paid a lot for that. like I'll sell it.'ll I'm going to do something with it. I don't want to just throw it away. All these reasons for hoarding, right And so she didn't view it as hoarding, and then she didn't like when I called it hoarding, right? So that was like our we were in a stalemate where like nothing was really moving. And all of a sudden, things changed and I was like, I didn't do anything. Can you tell me what the answer was? 'cause I surely didn't have it And she goes, well, I started following these women on Instagram. I just changed my feed. She's like, I just decided, I'm gonna follow like twenty of these people, unfollowed a bunch of like parenting and like fitness stuff to like get my feed to be just brainwashing of the right flavor And she goes, because I saw this one thing that really resonated with me. I was like, o, what was it And so there's these decluttering coaches on Instram. I don't know if you've seen this. They have like millions of followers. I love them. There's women that are just helping other women like kind of Figure out to like think about decltering their house. It's not even strateg, right? Beuse the answer is obvious. Put the shit in a bag and get rid of it. It's mostly personal. It's like how to feel about like saying goodbye to something that like your baby used to play with. Exactly. O you spent money on it and now you feel like it's wasteful to get rid of it. It's sort of like personal finance is more personal than finance. It's like cleaning is more like dealing with the inside. you know, what is season the dog trainer says? He goes, I trained the human and we rehabilitate the dog. Yeah, exactly. That's so true. And so she was talking about like, there was one Instagram reel she saw where the woman was walking around the house and she goes You know, I've been keeping all this stuff for my kids because I want them to I'm trying to like make sure they have everything they might need But they don't have me anymore because now when I walk around I just see my brain is just thinking, Oh, I got to pick those up. Oh, I need to put that away. I really want to reorganize the shelf. I've been meaning to get to this. like, o my God. and then she's like another one was Are you ashamed?ike do you does panic come inside you? when somebody offers to like come over to a play date, like the idea of having guests over does it triggerered panic in you That's not what your home is supposed to feel like So whatever upside you thought this is giving you, that's a great one. Think about the panic that you feel and my wife is like, dude, every time. Like when we go to school drop off, we have the tesl level with like the wings And so when you open the door, it's like such It's like so open house for like our car and our c is like There's goldfish and Cheetos and four soccer balls and nineteen shoes in the back of the car, right? Like this's just like we have three kids, three car seats. it's a madhouse back there And so she's like, let's drop off over here at the corner. I'm like, what the hell why? She's like, 'causeuse I don't want anyone to say kids, getet out the other door. so nobody sees. open the window. when the creators on Instagram started to speak to those moments and those fears, which is the equivalent of Were you volunteering to take the photo so that you're not in it Then all of a sudden like the flip switched. it's like I could see the power of like The right sentence that just hits the nerve that literally just rewires someone's behavior. That's a great story. I'll be eager to see how long that lasts because that potentially could be life changing. Yeah, hopefully it is Um 'cause it's pretty traumatizing to be like, I did this. Like this is hilarious We've been like house hunting, so like we're seeing all these really nice houses that are like stage. And every time we go in and I'm like, yeah, but you got to remember We're gonna to ruin all this. We don't live like this. like this is like a perfectly staged minimal house with like when you go like shopping for clothes, you're like, picture that with a mustard state on it. Do you still like it? Do you have mannequins with bellies? ' I'd like to see what this looks like. And so so then with with our house, I looked up our old like like Zillow photos of when the house right before this same house were in before we moved in And I was like, what do you think of this house? And it looks amazing. Oh, that's so funny. We ruined this. This already was epic. We messed it up. And so you know, you have to like a sault reality. Yeah, It's near and dear to my heart, this whole clutter thing. I argue with my wife about that stuff all the time too. Ands one of the reasons I like living in New York is I make the excuse. I've got a small apartment You guys can't get me anything. R. And it's like not that small But dude, the clutter thing bothers me. It kills me. It like When I walked into my house, like the entry you open the door, It's like whatever, thirty foot ceil should be so beautiful. Instead we had a giant pink UFC Octagon trampoline just in the middle of the house. And the kids did love it. It was pretty fun, but like Damn man. where do we go wrong? it's Amazon, man. But being able to buy shit so easily online, I think that like If I was u I don't think this would land as well, but if I was like an influencer in this space, it would be about like consumerism and like and like showing people like for example, if I was to get you, if I was going to show you why you should eat healthier, You could do a bunch of like visualizations, but like I could just show you like, look, when you go to the movies and you get popcorn just I could tell you that they put one hundred grams of butter on it, or I could just show you a block of fat. And like that's one hundred grams Right that is what is on here. For this, I could be like, here's your bill. like here's the money that you would have saved, not buying this stuff. you know what I mean? Like That wouldn't land as good, but that's how I think about it. I'm like, o Oh my Godd it's so a waste or I'll be like A kid in China made this, it flew over on an airplane. It got into this factory. it went to this UPS. like that's where it hurts me. I'm like all this energy's just wasted. I hate the waste And so that's what lands at me when I think of like the waste, but that's that's a significantly less popular emotion. Right,. But this is stuff is fun. If you w to learn more about this stuff, my favorite book on this topic is Made to Stick by Chip Heath. It's T Brothers from Stanford. and they do the best job of showing like five ways that you can make ideas stick with people. I'm kind of like thinking I'm gonna to reread that I've read that and I've read positioning, by the way, even though they come highly recommended, I actually did not think either was great There's some books you read and you're like, holy shit, every page is like, you want to frame it. That's not how I felt at all about those books. Also they're pretty old. so the examples they'll give are not as relevant I think this is something you just have to like actually study the ground truth ads You have to notice what resonates, you have to start paying attention and you start to start collecting for yourself The books can provide some, you know, some general frameworks, but I personally didn't think that either of them was like good enough to like feel like I actually understood it U I agree to disagree , you do both, right? You're you have a pretty strong swipe file and the know for this sort of thing,. you know, You' doing that for fifteen, twenty years now. I thought madeade to stick was cool because it just put frameworks, but like there's like classic ones that you see and some of them are funny where it's like, this person is this rich. It's like, well, what does a trillion mean? Well, and then you do like the second thing. I think I told you the story where like a million is like seventy two hours a billion is like eighty two weeks and then a trillion is thirty two years Like there's like ways to like break things down that are far more tangible. And that's what I learned from What's it called? Made a stick didnidn't stay Almost almost almost lost that one. That's like my joke when it's like that's a dad joke. when people say I'll say, u They can tell I've got bad hearing and they go, do you have bad hearing I go, hu It's never funny. No one has ever left I'll give it te. All right, that's it, that's the part I feel like I can rule the world I know I could be what I want to So the roll, let's travel, never looking back. All right, let's take a quick break to talk about a podcast. Beause if you're listening to this, you like podcasts And what's better than one podcast? Another podcast. And let me tell you, another podcast you should check out, it's called Success Story. If you like hearing about different success stories and hearing Q and A sessions with successful business leaders or hearing keynote presentations or just checking out conversations about sales and business and marketing tactics, is a great podcast for you. So check it out wherever you get your podcast