Future Economic Policy and Leadership

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Make your next financial move with confidence Follow Nerd Wallet Smart Money podcast on your favorite podcast app. Hello, a slightly longer episode of newewscast than usual, and that's because the second half of the pod is going to be a big look back at the events of the week, which we normally do every week, but most weeks aren't like this one's been. And the first half will be Daniella Welf, senior rooyal correspondent, talking about what we've gleaned about King Charles' finances. So those are the two things coming your way on a bumper edition of newscast Newscast. Newscast from the BBC. I will resign as leader of the Labour Party. And what will you do at. Humanity's next great voyage begins. You know I like my busses. I'll come ono them. It's supposed to be me as a doctor.. Thinking about it like a pano helped. Do we play music now or what do we do? Hello, it's Adam in the Nscast studio. And first of all, we're gonna to focus on matters rooyal because the royal accounts have come out. and actually there are quite a few news stories in there Not least the fact the king, for the first time ever, has revealed how much tax he has paid, a thing that he does on a voluntary basis since his mother started doing that in the nineteen nineties. The person who can bring us all the details because she's been peering into the spreadsheets is senior rooyal correspondent, Daniella Ralph. Hi, Daniella. Hi Adam So you're you're actually slap bang in between Claren's house and Buckingham Palace Yeah, that's right. So Buckingham Palace behind me, everyone knows thats. Clarence house' behind the camera. We can't see it. it's always slightly hidden and shielded by the trees. It's harder But it is literally just across the road from Buckingham Palace, much smaller, much more private, a little bit hidden away, but just across the road. And we'll talk about King Charles's finances in a second, but just sticking to his lodgings. Is it quite a surprise that he and the quQeen are going to stay there rather than moving into his mum's old apartment Really, because they've never lived in Buckingham Palace. So the fact that they haven't really shown a great deal of interest in moving in was perhaps a sign that they weren't that keen to do it in the first place. But I think actually just hearing the team at Buckingham Palace say it and say that the monarch will not be living in Buckingham Palace. The first time that has happened since the reign of Queen Victoria, it' still a thing. know It's still quite a moment. because I think for a lot of people visiting Buckingham Palace, there is a magic in knowing that perhaps The king or the queen might be there. You know When you walk around to have a look, I don't know about you, but when I've been in, you sometimes think, is this their bedroom? have they walked here, what are they doing in there shouldhould pe behind the curtain? There's all that kind of stuff Is that perhaps lost when you know that the monarch isn't going to live there? Maybe a little bit, but ultimately, it was a very personal decision from the king and quQeen. They wanted to stay at Clarence House. It's where they've lived for more than twenty years. You've got to remember as well, there' two people in their late seventies. The king is living with cancer and the bottom line is they didn't want to live above the shop and they didn't want the upheaval of moving themselves and their staff to Buckingham Palace. So they have chosen to stay living at Clarence House. but Buckingham Palace has still been described by the King's team as Monarchy HQ. It's the operational base of the royal family. We're still going to see garden parties, state banquets, big events, and there is this chance now that without a Monarchan residence on a long term basis But the palace could be open up to the public more often for longer periods of the year, therefore generating more income. And actually linked to the story about money, a lot of money has been spent over the last few years on the refurbishment of Buckingham Palace. And I suppose this reinforces the fact that that wasn't a glow up for the king's flat, it was getting a public building, which is used for public purposes up to scratch as opposed to some kind of anateity project, like gold wallpaper. Yeah, exactly. It was not a gold wallpaper and a bit of a ju up for the king's private apartments that would have been there. It was a much bigger project, almost three hundred seventy million pounds though of public money spent on the ten year refurbishment, the resurvicing as the palace call it, of Buckingham Palace. That is now nearly complete. And know there are some that might say, Well if the king's not even going to be living there, wasn't that a whole waste of money. But it was a really big project. We're talking rewiring, changing the plumbing, there were asbestos issues. The King's team say, this is a three hundred year old building. It needed attention, and the work that has been done, regardless of who's living in it, will make the building more usable for decades to come H Right, let's open the spreadsheets then and give us the backstory first of all. Why is the king revealing how much tax he's paid? Well these are the publication of the royal accounts. They're an important part of the royal year. They happen around this time every year The difference thiset is there has just been this real scrutiny on the family finances, the fallout After the whole situation with Andrew Mountbatten, Windsor and his accommodation and who's paying for what has just put royal money under more scrutiny than it's ever been really with lots of calls politically for greater accountability and for transparency That has been heard to a degree by the teams within both Buckingham Palace and Kensington Palace. And onene of the little chinks of light they've given us in the publication of royal accounts this year is to give us those figures for tax. So we know that since the king became king and since Britince William became the Prince of Wales, Jointly, they have paid over fifty million pounds to HMRC. In the year twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five, the king paid just over twelve million pounds in tax, and Prince William in the same period paid just over seven million pounds It's the first time we've had any kind of ballpark figure for a monarch paying tax. So that in itself is interesting. It is new information, it is something we didn't know before. It is openness with limitations because what we don't know is quite how that figure was got to. What was the breakdown? What were the sources of income that were liable for tax? What were the numbers there that were put together? How were things audited? We don't know any of that information, we don't know anything about private investments, savings that were taxed Yes, we've got more information, a little bit of information, more information than we had before, but it's far from all of the information that perhaps you'd like to have. Yeah, we don't know, for example, how much cash the king had in a stocks and shares ISA, which is now going to be charged at higher tax rates because of Rachel R's reforms. And also the thing about the king's finances is there's so many different sources of money go into into his household. As you were saying there, there's the money that he gets from from his own private investments. There's the money he gets from the Duchy of Lancaster, which is a basically sort of a big, almost like landlords business that's been established for hundreds and hundreds of years designed to give the sovereign an income And then of course, there's the money that the royal family as a whole get from the government to do their public duties All of that is right and it just gives you a flavor of just how complicated these accounts are. Whenever I go into Royal Acounts Day as I did yesterday, I always think I get this, I've fully across it, I've done my homework, I've been through the numbers and accounts from past years and past reports. and you still get in there to go through the new figures and it is really complicated, however much you know You just don't know all the detail, you haven't got all the numbers, all the separate bits of incoming money. And as you say, we're never really going to know, are we exactly what the king's private money is, how much he's got in his bank, what his investments are, what his savings are, what he's inherited. So there is a lot of information that will always be missing. It is difficult to really down into the numbers around Boyer accounts. but we have got a little bit more information this year perhaps than we've had before. and I think that is a little bit of a response to Buckingam Palace and Kensington Palace, knowing that the public wants to know more And have you seen much reaction to this? or is this just a case of everyone thinking, o a rich guy pays rich guy amount of tax There is a bit of that. and I think part of the problem with this as well is that you kind of if you are A Republican. You're not going to like this in any way whatsoever. You're just not going to really believe in a constitutional monarchy. You're not going to believe in the hereditary inheritance of grand estates and land to give you an income. If you're a staunch monarchist, you're going to, well, of course the king and queen need public money to do the work of the public, to get out and about, to be seen, to be doing charity stuff. You are philosophically in two very different places, which tend to be how you then look at the royal account. So it's sometimes very hard to get an impartial view or somebody who can look at it with a cool head. You know, depending on what camp you're in, that's going to be your take on what the numbers are And one of the sources, which I alluded to earlier on is this sovereign grant, which is the amount of money the treasury gives to the royal familyily to carry out their duties. So not for private stuff, not for the royal family as a family, but for the royal family as public figures. And that seems to be going up by a lot Yeah, that is a quite eye catching figure that came out of the account. So that figure from twenty twenty seven is going to be just under a hundred million pounds every year for five years So it's going to be flat. it's not going to follow inflation. It will just be that figure, but that is more around double what it was three years ago So that is a really considerable uplift. Now when you ask why has that happened? well Buckingham Palace say because there's just a lot to do, the royal family are carrying out more engagements. There are more historic buildings to maintain. They've got two big projects on that they want to do as well, which is improving cybersecurity across all royal residences And there is this transition to green energy that they're doing as well. So for example, eleven million pounds has been earmarked to change the boilers at Windsor Castle, just as one little slice of what that money is going to be spent on, but it is still a huge uplift for that figure to be doubled to almost a hundred million pounds for five years It's a figure that has been approved by the Prime Minister and by the Chancellor. But what we don't know is what were the state of the discussions? Was there any pushback from the government in terms of the numbers? How was it broken down in terms of justifying what they needed to spend and what it would cost? So it's another one of those situations here where we have some of that information. We can see there is a massive lift but we don't quite know the flavour of the conversations that were had to agree for that number to go up. And I think know if you are anti the monarchy, if you think the royal family costs too much money, will that that kind of lift is something that will really annoy you. And also the sovereign grant is basically an algorithm, isn't it? It's a formula that was come up with by George Osborne when he was Chancellor, which is the royal family get twelve percent of the profits from the crown estate and the crown estate is the bit of the architecture of the sovereign that owns the coastline and the seabed on which we're building loads and loads of wind farms Wind farm connects us to bring the energy onto land Yeah, that's right. It started at twelve percent that figure. It's now going up to twenty to get that one hundred million pounds figure. Oh I see. So that's the bit of the algorithm that's changed. Exactly. When you say it was an algorithm Algorithms can change, of course, and they can shift And that's what has happened in the conversations with government here to come to this new figure. For the sovereign grant, the percentage has gone up. Now talking about numbers, people complain about the price of a train ticket, but the Royal train to Lancaster in june twenty twenty five, that trip cost forty eight thousand four hundred sixty pounds. I can see why they're bringing the rooyal train out of service Yeah, the rail train goes out of service next year and perhaps that's why forty eight thousand pounds to get to Clisserad does seem rather a lot of money even in peak time, doesn't it? So the royal train is expensive, we knew that. And when you go through the travel figures in the accounts. there are quite a few train journeys that seem quite eye wateringly expensive. You know we're talking well over twenty thousand pounds for a trip. so from next year the rooyal train won't be used. There's also around three quarters of a million pounds spent on one hundred seventy seven helicopter flights by the royal family over the past year. A lot of chartered aircraft being used as well. over eight hundred thousand pounds spent on chartered aircraft. And the most expensive overseas trip of the year that was made by Prince William to Saudi Arabia back in February and that cost one hundred thirty thousand pounds The only intel I have on the Royal helelicopter is that the late quQeen had a sweetie drawer on it. and if you were invited to be on the helicopter with her, she'd open the sweetie drawer and there would be a a range of sweeties in there for you to choose from That is excellent intelligence. I didn't know that. That's why I'm not seningor your rooyal correspondent and you are. Now, we have been watching a documentary on IPlay about the England squad Go to the World Cup in two thousand six And It was a great guest appearance. Yeah, a great guest appearance by you. I know I look so young and my skin is so nice and I hadn't had any children by that point. I just looked at it longingly. Yeah, I was at the Beckhams partarty in Hertfordshire in two thousand six, I think it was yeah, during my days covering a bit of sport And that mean was such a picture of that era. And I think my main takeaway from it was because that was that was the peak of kind of celebrity culture and all the mags and the tabloids being obsessed about celebrities. And you just think the sort of the culture around the England squad now They're like a sort of like a monastery now compared to what the England scoread was like then Yeah. I mean, those were wild days. I did the World Cup in two thousand two, which was in Japan and South Korea, which again was at the start of that whole WG culture. It was in the days when Senor Erikson was the England manager. We'd had all the gossip about him having an affair with the TV presenter Erika Johson. was pe tabloid scandal for the England football team. And I can remember during that trip, you know we would see the players out and about, you having dinner, sitting outside, having a coffee. they went shopping on to the big department store in town one day. The whole team went out one night, just went for a late night shop. I mean, the mood was completely different to the discipline you know that is there in the England camp They were very different times Well, Daniella, we managed to talk about Buckingham Palace and Beckingham Palace in the same conversation. So well done. Perfect. And that leads seamlessly on to our next entry for Supporter Reporter where we're looking for a newscaster with a link to every single country that is represented at the World Cup in the USA, Canada and Mexico. and we have got a message with a link to Curusow So here we go. This is from Martin, says. I actually live in Perth in Scotland, but I'm originally from the Netherlands. However, my best friend as a teenager was born in Curisau. As a teenager I was cared for by his family for a while and his parents started seeing me as their son, which they still do to this day. Oh that's really cute. And as a result I started seeing my best friend as my brother. Oh wow heavy but in a good way. I even understand a fair bit of Papiamento, the language spoken in Curisa My adopted brother and I both moved out of the Netherlands as adults, him to Belgium, so not very far, me to Scotland. but we still make efforts to see each other and the family as much as we can The two of us went together to Hampton Park for the warm up match, Scotland versus Cura Site at the end of May, and had a great time I might not be from there myself, but I'm proud of what the Blue Wave has done as by far the smallest country ever to qualify for the World Cup Best wishes Martin Kats. Martin, thank you so much for your message and from your extended family as well who are kind of in there too. Thank you for getting in touch and I'm gladly willing to bestow on you the title of newewscast Suorter reporter from Curaco via Scotland. and the Netherlands. so you got a few claips in there as well, but your main one is curious now. so consider that bestowed Any team that's tested AI tools for data has seen the pattern already AI gives a different number than your BI tool Metrics don't match across teams and inevitably Users lose trust It turns out, turning on AI is easy But making it work on data is not Text AI was built to solve this The key is nailing context Txt is built to unify and curate your data context for agents Data teams can observe, govern, and continuously improve every AI answer. So answers get smarter, the more your team asks. 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T's and Cs apply Deisions made in Washington can affect your portfolio every day What policy changes should investors be watching Listen to Washington Wise, an original podcast for investors from Charles Schwab to hear the stories making news in Washington right now Host Mike Townsend, Charl Schwab's managing director for Legislative and Regulatory affairs, takes a non partisan look at the stories that matter most to investors including policy initiatives for retirement savings, taxes and trade, inflation concerns, the Federal Reserve, and how regulatory developments can affect companies, sectors, and even the entire market M and his guests offer their perspective on how policy changes could affect what you do with your portfolio Download the latest episode and follow at schwab. com slash Washington Wise or wherever you listen. Now normally at this time of the week we do a bit of a look backack about what's been happening in politics. So this week that's going to take us about seventeen hours. But don't worry, we've got two people who are very, very good at talking about what we've learned this week from observing what's going on at Westminster. Returning to the newscast stududio, political editor of the New States and magazine. It's Alva Ray. Hello Alva. Hello.y week for edition of the magazine? Yes. And also Sa Rogers who's deputy editor of the House magazine Hello Senna. Hello. Right. whereere were you on the moment where Ka Starmer' P premership came to an end, although it's still going, weird like, because we're in the in between period I was at home doing ro from my bedroom.ad about it. talking about it. yeah. I was yeah, I was also at home, which is not that far from Westminster haaving been on the phone, yeah there comes a point when you think, A I just going to be in transit for this big moment? And I was speaking to people inside number ten. I was able to report that The Prime Minister's Chief of staff had announced to all of number ten that he was resigning. that like Kirstarmer was resigning was able to report that, but I just thought can't I can't miss it if I'm on the tube or walking. And have you managed to glean the moment that the light bulb went off in Kstarmer's head that he had to go I'm told it was Saturday But On early Sunday morning at the time, I was being told by people very close to him that he hadn't made his mind up. so I I'm still actually not sure if we're ever going to completely No, it sounded like he decided on Saturday evening and then he began wrriting the speech. But I don't know what you have done that. But you know I've heard But again, it's one of those things where we don't literally know Kir's own mind and we'd have to know that to know the real answer, right? Yeah, And it's interesting because I was thinking last night, oh, hang on, if the reason he went ultimately was because Burnham's victory in Makerfield was so overwhelming and so much bigger than the gap between reform and restore so it was sort of very Clean big win We knew that on Friday morning when Kir Starmer did a poll clip with Joe Pike for the rest of the media saying, I'm going to carry on fighting, which had been his line consistently. So he had access to the information of the size of Andy Burnham's margin of victory at that point, but still had the old position. So he' been after that Yes, but also I think that there's a question as to how much the decision was made for him. E though even though ultimately it had to be him, when you think about the exact timings of it, I think that the people around him who care about him had different views as to whether he should fight. I think some people really, really wanted him to and that was his inclination. but other people I think were worried that that would be really humiliating experience for him. And sometimes when these things leak to the media, they're leaked for a reason. So if you're ninety percent of the way there to deciding that you're going to resign. nge. maybe that observer front page was a nudge know. And then and then once Donald Trump ets that you're doing. then you have to do it. like Donald Trump han't been told he was doing it. It was just Donald Trump's assessment that to look like Donald but Donald Trump, I think having read some of the media repors on the Sunday morning, so you know, the nudge mays the observer. Wow. I the endorsement they would want, And Sienna, thinking back to Starmer's speech. And so I wasn't here, so I was watching it from a distance with Quite high FOMo The bit everyone remembers is him welling up when he talks about his wife and his kids less noticed is the rest of the speech and it' a speech of it's broken up into thirds in my mind. So the first third was a bog standard quite boring Ker starmer listicle of things like breakfast clubs, which we've become all too used to. The middle third, you then realize is a very quite hands off wave saying I'm going to resign because the way he phrases it is the question that my colleagues are asking is am I the right person to take the party into the next election And I now have heard that the answer to that is no, which is a very sort of third hand lateral way of saying I've got to resign. The passive voice was strong Exactly. And I'm just wondering now that you've had a week to think about that speech, what's your kind of lasting take on it? Well, yeah, the most striking thing, obviously was him being very emotional when he was talking about his family, which didn't surprise me at all because he is very emotional when it comes to his family he's always been that way. And I mean that in a respectful way. He's also very, very defensive of them. and you know, that's completely understandable, but he can get quite angry as well as upset about that So that didn't surprise me, but then what what also struck me listening to it was that listical he gave. in that so many of the things and then I had lots of calls and messages to this effect afterwards were things that been dragged, kicking and screaming towards. So you had obviously children being lifted out of poverty. so that was a reference to removing the two child cap. Now that's something that he initially suspended MPs over before having to let them back in because you turned on it. There was the employment rights and obviously lots of trade union people were going I cannot believe that he just sited that. it down becausecause he watered it down and it was such a fight and a struggle and we still need to have part two for the rest of it So It was kind of actually a bit of a list of the struggles that he's had in government and the problems that people have had with him. And can I just clarify, when I use the word softie, I'm not using that in a derographory term. I'm using that as a label for a man of a certain age who's quite open to talk about his family and his feelings because not all men of a certain age are willing to do that. And also it's not necessarily a huge part of our political culture for men to do that. That's just before I get any complaints. Then Alva, what I've been really struck by is when Helen Mcnamara, the deputy Cabinet seecretary formerly was on newscast on Wednesday, she said the alarm bells started ringing for her with the selfie in Westminster Hall when Andy Burnham arrived and there was hundreds and hundreds of labour MPs there to welcome him And we posted that on Instagram and I haven't had an Instagram story that's had such a divided response as that one for ages. That moment, whether you agree with it or disagree with it, has turned into quite an powerful moment Yes, but I guess I would add a little bit of context to what Helen Mcnamara said because I've seen, I don't know if it was on a newscast or on her own podcast. There was in a podcast. But But she was saying about how you know, she'd never seen this before and it seemed completely unprecedented. It actually isn't. It does happen. People every time People seem to not believe this, but you can actually go and look up of the by election point was that you don't normally see that many labour MPs and you wouldn't see the Chancellor. But actually it is often in the hundreds. And so you know you can go and look at the photos and they are often, especially after a big by election that's hard won. They are huge moments. often the Prime Minister goes So actually, that bit is normal. Andy Barnham wasn't breaking with precedent or doing anything unusual th. That's just like what the Labour Party does. But obviously in this context, It just landed very differently. I went along for it and It was reallyally quite extraordinary. It was like a rock star was coming. Parliamentary security could not cope with it. They were putting up barriers and getting really, really stressed because it was and all the journalists were there. We were all there. All the MPs where there were a lot of them, hundreds and hundreds, but also Special advisors, aides, visitors in Parliament were hearing or we might see Andy Burnham. so they were all piling into Westminster Hall. There was a serious need for crowd control. and then And there was this sort of building anticipation on what entrance is you going to arrive from? And when he came in there was almost a sort of Mexican wave and there' sort of like eruption through the whole building. There was I mean there's been a lot of this behind the scenes in the Labour Party in recent weeks, but the power play and just the human politics of people trying to get to the front of the photo to be near Andy Burnham was hilarious.ike Angela Rayner arrived quite conspicuous conspicuously late with a whole posse behind her and Marched straight to the front, Rachel Reeves straight to the front, Steve Reid, who's know been quite critical of Andy Bannan in recent weeks. He was there reasonably near the front campaign team. Is it true there was a cabinet minister crying Yes. I put that in the new Statesman cover story this week And were they happy tears, sad tears, tired tears? It's hard to tell from a distance, but I guess I can't speak for them, but the I think they were sad tears even though they still turned up for the selfie. So I think there was a bit of confusion as to the thinking behind that because there wasn't actually an obligation to go and welcome Andy Bernham there. And I think especially with really senior cabinet ministers You know, you can assume that they're off doing something terribly important and that's why they can't make it. But yeah, the emotions were running really high that day and you know, just over the road in number ten There were lots of quite tearful meetings I gather. I mean that's probably not surprising to anyone listening, but a lot of tears and then about half past four, they cracked open the wine and went out into the Dining Street garden and drank until the early hours. And I think probably a few people could blame that maybe some people would people think, you know, you still have to Yeah But yeah, it was it was a big, big moment It was quite funny this this so then they had this as Alice says this downowning street party and I'm told they had ing to be trying to avoid those moments because of the kind of echoes of previous governments, the lockdown parties, party gate. And this obviously was a moment where it's like Well it's all ending, isn't it? And then they had this weird kind of funereal slash wake atmosphere and it went on and on for hours and hours and there was Kistama and he was there the whole time. and there was also his wife and children and they were playing on the trampoline and everyone was drinking and then they were jumping and dancing and it was a peopleople who went described just a really kind of strange atmosphere of just sort of This is the end. I can't believe this has happened so quickly, but also it's inevitable kind of teerary, emotional, happy, everything all at once. Qu an extraordinary evening actually. Right. thenen back to politics. What do we know about what Andy Burnham has been doing this week to get ready Mm, he's been busy so He's a new MP. he is all of the stuff that a new MP has to sort of out like an office and working out where everything is, even though he was in Westminster before. He also has the Greater Manchester Mayalty by election, which he triggered and he's sort of duty bound to support. So he's been there today supporting the candidate, Bev Craig with her campaign And there's a full list of candidates for other parties has they been collected on the BCC News website. Yeah. And but then I think that there's a sort of twin track priority thing going on beyond that. So Andy Burnnam's team are actually not taking it for granted that he's going to go unchallenged, even though that is our working assumption, but they're trying to compile the biggest list of Labour MP nominations that they possibly can. And what else could get the eighty one Yeah And so that if there isn't a contest, it feels like he has just a resounding mandate that no one can question. So there's a real effort to bring MPs in, particularly twenty twenty four intake labour MPs who didn't overlap with him in parliament he's been trying to meet a lot of them speaking to MPs privately about his vision and what he wants to do It's spe been a lot of outreach. and then This is the main bit, which is he has three weeks to prepare for being Prime Minister. and so he needs to come up with who his cabinet is, who his team behind the scenes is, a whole policy programme, a plan for his first one hundred days. and I gather that's been really, really frantic. He sets a lot of the direction, he has lots of the ideas himself, but all this team who've been working on that assumed that they would have the summer and that they were doing this work, policy work, for example, for a leadership campaign or that the economic speech he was he's going to deliver next week. They thought that would be in the context of a contest where you'd unveil some health policies on Monday, some economic policies on Wednesday, some other policies in another area on Friday and then repeat that cycle for six months. And you'd be doing some visits and you'd be responding to what any other contenders would say and yeah you would have a little bit of time and it would be for the purposes of a debate that you would be doing this as well as eventually preparing for government, whereas he's going to go straight in probably. And so everything has just been massively accelerated. We had the announcement that James Pernell has been brought back to be his chief of staff, going into number ten. He only started a couple of days ago, so everything is happening really, really quick And I think no one in that team is denying that it is a huge scramble and really actually just quite difficult. Can you go to his MP's office and I don't know which bit of the building I think ' I've not been down for a nosy and I don't have a pass anymore, so one of you would have to let me in. Can you go and sort of stand outside and see who's going in and be like, o, that person's obviously angling for a job As everyone is He's still stationed in this whips ofice Yeah, he doesn't actually have his own ro Yeah he's still waiting. Yeah And you would think, why give him a backbench MP's office for three weeks when he's probably going Is that a premium in that building Sienna, I noticed something yesterday when NC so the Labor and National Executive Committee published the timetable There's a tiny moment of jeopardy Randy Burnham which is the hustings the week after the nominations open Now because it's before the nominations's close, presumably anyone who fancies just sharing a platform with Andy Burnham can apply to be in that hustings, which will be in front of Labour MPs. Am right Well, Yes, I mean, I think they would have to be in the process of trying to get nominations in order ye not like Catherine West friends from the Stalking Horse stage just fivety ten minutes for with the microphone. Yeah, we need more Catherine West, don't we? Yeah, so they'd have to do that. And even that I know that at the moment everyone's ruled themselves apart from Alcarnes. and I think he's I mean, like everyone was assuming that Anyone like Darren Jones who still was having their kind of name floating around and not preventing that from happening. It was about job negotiations obviously and getting that meeting with Andy Burnham so that they could have a discussion. Alchan, you know he obviously wants a debate, but whether he'll actually go and seek nominations once the MP nomination window is open is a different matter, I think. I mean, we will see, but I mean, nobody thinks that anyone but Burnham could get the eighty one nominations required. Yes, they could take part in debate just to make it more interesting, But I just want because you do hear people saying we need to have a bit of a debate and we need to at least look like there is a process. And actually it would be good for Fany Bernham himself to have an opportunity to have an argument with somebody. So I just wonder if somebody would put themselves forward to sort of be kind of like suuper interviewer There is definitely a discussion going on about that. And I mean I think there's such an inevitability to this idea that Andy Burnham will win eventually, whether that's a quick or a sort of slower process. I think that the most skeptical and, you know sort of Ker Starmer looyalist people would argue that there are maybe up to a hundred labour MPs who will happily support Andy Burnham eventually, but who have their concerns, who want a bit of a debate, who maybe could behind someone else just for the sake of a contest. and that was sort of where that chatter around Darren Jones came from, even though he has ruled himself out. And so I think that like probably he will go unopposed, but there' I think that I'm quite struck from speaking to Andy Brownham's team that they are really not discounting that possibility. the whole scene not just in a hle we don't want to look like we're measuring the curtains kind of way. Well, I think it is more that to be honest. I mean these peopleot They say the same thing to me and I'm just like, yeah, yeah, okay. I I think so They do need to sort of make sure that they I think they do really have to make sure that they are not being complacent about peopleople support like a lot of labour MPs don't know Andy Bernham and they've been really moving quickly to that and bring people in. But I think that yeah, this has been the strength of this slow coup so far, that they're focused on each stage at a time and trying not to be too complacent about it. So I think that it is a genuine thing of they need to get hundreds and hundreds of names like you need above three hundred on that nomination paper it's overwhelming. So it's just absolutely overwhelming. and that's still not completely a done deal. Now there's one political magazine not represented here and that is the spectator and their political editor Tim Shipman has written a long piece with lots of interesting things in it, but one of the things that's made a lot of waves is this quote he has from a senior labor source claiming that Andy Burnham will be Labour's first female prrime Minister Sienna. How has that slightly odd soundbike gone down? not well with women's PLP. So I revealed these kind of text messages are going around on the WhatsApp groups that the Labour women have. and they were absolutely furious, of course. They all interestingly assumed that it was a man. and we're saying things like you know, a period of silence from our male colleagues would be welcome, especially at this point. and just getting very, very angry and also discussing this whole dynamic of obviously labour infamously has never elected a female leader. And why is that? And there was some talk of, well, it's also it's kind of Women's self hatred is one of them. They would talk about internalised misogyny, but also just the fact that women get a really, really hard time in these contests and then they always come bottom every single time. It's a consistent trend. So why would anyone put themselves forward at this point Obviously this is even more a kind of particular dynamic where everyone knows Andy Burnham iss going to win. so it's even more pointless to go through that pain to put yourself forward. But yeah, the women were absolutely furious. But from what I could see what this person was sort of trying to suggest was that Andy Burnham. is what so confident in his masculinity that that means he can then politically focus on I don't even know how to say this. so uncomfortable for me. That means he could focus on like women's issues like education and social care Social care girly stuff. And ye they've said that you know men men tend to be interested in budgets and balm. Budgets balm. No, no isn No, isn't it that female Tory prime ministers have to be concerned about budgets and bonds so they don't look too female. I think best person's arguent Yeah, mean I think gendering bits of politics and policy is a high way to doom and embarrassment. I think that people just find that really, really strange. I mean, this has been a A really big theme inside the Labour Party, women feeling quite marginalized the way Sienna was nodding to underhear Starmer A lot of women felt very unhappy inside the Labour Party, right up to the top of the cabinet, you know, a feeling that the women in cabinet were being briefed against That sort of matcho culture in number ten and then and then like that going right through the parliamentary party. Things like that welfare rebellion were primarily organized by women Yeah M Hiller was the front wom who had been overlooked despite her vast experience for a ministerial job. But then a lot of these some of them involved in that rebellion but just in general, a lot of the women who were marginalized or overlooked or shunned or dismissed by Kir Starmer and Morghgan Mcsween, the people around him are now Absolutely central to Andy Burnham's team. The Northern Queens, as they're called. Yeah, as the new statesman dubs them. Yes. wonderub themselves that or whher you dub they dubbed themselves that and I quoted it and then I think it was in a headline without quote marks, but yeah, they dubbed themselvesust to be clear, the providenceing. Yeah, I think that that has actually unexpectedly become a big around Andy Beran because I think his reputation was actually the opposite, you know, Is he a bit too blokey bis foall Asis beer. does he get a bit tetchy with female journalists? That was does he? I think that I'm just asking the question Okay. But that was that was the question but then actually overwhelmingly speaking to you know people this week, looking forward to an Andy Brn preremiership Even people from parts of the party who wouldn't instinctively like Andy Burnham. quuite impressed by this team of strong women he has around him. this what feels like a genuine cultural reset that Burnham is hoping to achieve. You know When I interviewed him, I asked who he was closest to in Parliament and the whole list he gave was just women. R. All the people running his campaign were women. Well even th even though his right hand man for decades has been a guy called Kevin Lee the first person he's appointed to run his team is a man called who was pronouowned I think though looking at who's doing policy behind the scenes for him, for example. It's about You know, five women And you know the people who ran his campaign in Makerfield, was all women. And so Obviously we have to see the way it all shakes out and where the exact appointments are, but He talks about how prouide he is of that And it's a thing that people are starting to remark upon that they haven't seen a prime minister or male prrime mininister so comfortable with a team of mostly women strong minded, tough characters I have to say as well. Although the end of the Starmer era, Downing Street was quite female There was two joint chiefs of staff who were women, onene who went on maternity leave, Director of Coms, who was a woman? But still the key strategists were men and And actually, he did get the old band back together to sing the old hits before he did that farewell speech. people could hear the voice of Morgan McSweeneny and Paul Overnden, his former director of Strategy was seen leaving Downing Street by the front door. I think that the criticism was all that it wasn't that there were no women working for Kir Starmer or anything but that just the culture felt Yes. Boky and Mat a bit patriarchal. All the men in it would say, but But we have women in this team, but I think you know some if you're having to say that. And some of the women in the team also felt like that the culture could be a bit blokey, but definitely it was just, you know, from outside, a a lot of the women in the Labour Party felt uncomfortable with it. and that women were repeatedly overlooked for jobs in number ten as well was a big theme I think that yeah Sorry I could carry on. Well, I was going say lastly I wondered if this period these three weeks was just going to be a bit of a kind of vacuum and that was only filled with what's Andy Burnnham doing today? What does it reveal about his preremiership to come? But actually there is some classic sort of end of term political chaos happening right now. and it's about the homeome Oice mininister Mike Taap who wrote an article for The Times Sienna. basasically different position from his boss, the homeome Secretary Shaban Mahamouud, and it kicked off on Thursday night. Yeah, that was wildly optimistic of you, it turns out, because the chaos is not over. In fact, it's intensifying. It's all a bit of a mess. And I think you know, several weeks ago I did hear kind of this idea, it was never kind of seriously considered or taken seriously, but This idea of should we just suspend collective responsibility? because this is a really unique situation that the Labour Party hasn't found itself in before. In other words, cabinet mininisters wouldn't have to be loyal to the Prime Minister. Exactly. And obviously, this came up particularly because there was this whole idea that West Streeting had lots of ministers who were supportive of him, but obviously couldn't be open about that when he was in the running for the leadership And number ten was saying nope, they'd absolutely have to resign and wouldn't be able to be open about their support for him. And treating teams response was obviously, well that means that you're scared of how many nominations he would get. So this is a kind of context. And now it does seem like basically it has been suspended, but nobody has said it out loud. It's not officially happened. And so you've got this situation where Kistmer didn't take the advice that he was receiving from Morgan Mcweeney, I'mld to sack the dissenters in the cabinet, so including Shabana Mahmouud, who had obviously told him that hisis mum is up And at the same time he's now not sacking at time of speaking. Yeah, N sacking mic which twenty to three. Not sacking mic tab for doing something that clearly, I think does breach collective responsibility. and it's Interesting and very familiar that the kind of common thread in both those scenarios is in action. And the latest we know is from the lobby briefing of journalists at lunchime, which was that the Prime Mister is receiving advice on what to do about the ministerial code in that case. Right, Alva, last thing to you. by my magic of bad timing