Scrutiny and the Leadership Transition

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK Imagine buying a toy for your kid. But it doesn't come with batteries. That sucks. But honestly, it's even worse when you buy business software. You end up with fragmented disconnected systems that cost a fortune and don't talk to each other Ohdoo completely changes that. Odu comes fully complete, with all your business apps perfectly integrated and working together seamlessly. It's everything your business needs in one place, saving you time, headaches, and serious money Paying for missing pieces Go to odoo. com That's odWo. com to learn more Innovation has always kept the world moving forward But it also comes with risk. In a world that is as complex and unpredictable as it is exciting. AXA XL is facing into risk. As a leading global insurer, we constantly push the boundaries to protect your business and power your innovations. AXAXL facing into risk for a future to be imagined This advertisement doesn't constitute an offer or solicitation, nor a description of any products or services of AX or EXcel So Chris, Andy Burnham has given what is basically the first big speech of his leadership campaign since returning to Westminster, and he's given it at the People's History Museum in Manchester and you were there Have you ever been to a political event? quite like this one Well, I mean, the geography of it, Jones was really quite something because not just Manchester, so if you like Andy Burnham's political home and the basis for many of the ideas that he was fleshing out in the speech, which we'll get on to, but in particular, the People's History Museum, which he feels again, is effectively a case study in his political creed. He even made a joke about how one of his jackets is actually on show in a glass cabinet. Upstairs I think it might be the jacket he was wearing when he was in a bit of a spat with the Boris Johnson Gvernment during the pandemic around regional COVID restrictions and the implications, etcetera, etcetera. So this was a speech in its geography as well as in those who attended it in terms of party activists, etcetera that kind of oozed Andy Burnham. And he started it by asking the audience, A you ready for this? The question we're going to ask here on Newscast is more to the point, is Andy Burnham ready for this? So let's look at what we learned about his plan for government and what we didn't learn on this episode of Newscast Newscast from the BBC. I will resign as leader of the Labour Party. And what will you do stare it at all. Humanity's next great voyage begins. You know I like my busses. I'll come ono them. It's supposed to be me as a adapor.. Thinking about it like a panter helped. Do we play music now or what do we do Hello, it's James in the Newscast studio and it's Chris in the newscast Studio just back from Manchester. And it's Fisel in the Nscast studio All of us here in the Newscastity, Chris, you were there at this speech talked about the geographical setting of it in terms of politics message is he trying to get over here beyond what you were just saying a second ago? So a whole bundle load of policy ideas that we can get into, but firstly an observation that for me just oozed out of the room when you were standing there at the side as I always do for these speeches leaning leaning against a wall. Here was a politician Reveling in being on the public stage and reveling in setting out a political vision And there'll be loads of labour MPs, whatever their view of the downfall of Kir Starmer or indeed of Andy Burnham see a contrast on both of those points with the Prime Minister that Andy Burnham is likely to replace in three weeks time, that here was someone comfortable on the public stage, enjoying it yes for its own sake, but enjoying it because it offers a platform for political argument and then more than comfortable to do the vision thing In terms of his politics, and if you like, his political creed. A couple of years ago, the brilliant authors Patrick McGuire and Gabriel Pogund in their book about the K Stara years quoted K Starama as saying there is no such thing as stararism and there never will be. Kara wearing that as a badge of pride His argument was that he was a pragmatist. he would seek what would work, he wasn't defined, if you like by an ideology or a political creed. Here was Andy Burnham today saying, This is what I'm all about. This is the city region that has shaped me politically since I left Westminster as a Cabinet minister etera, etera ten or so years ago. And this is the vision that I want to bring to the UK if I become Prime Minister. And he calls that Manchesterism, this vision. Before we get into that though, how was how did he seem to you, Chris? nervous, excited? You know there was a lot of chat about his clothing to begin with I mean, including that he bought new shorts because his shorts were indecently short, which I thought was indecently too much detail, but whatever. Right So that was a reference to a snap. taken of him leaving his home during the by election campaign, where he did a particular sort of ninety degree turn out of the garden gate to run down the road. and as he did that theatre of the mind and all those.'s veryery short, shorts, climbed a little bit further north up his thigh. revealing more than he acknowledges now is decent. And so he said that he was presented with two options. One was a change in the decency laws The other was to buy some new shorts and he has bought some new shorts. On the wider clothing point, because this has been on the wider wider clothing point becausecause that bit is the sort of if you like the Daf bit around the shorts. The wider clothing point, I think is less, if you like Daft or Ephemeral because it is part of his political brand. backack to that point about the jacket in the glass cabinet in the museum Part of his political brand in his time as Manchester as the mayor of Greater Manchester has been to try and not look like a typical politician. In other words, not wearing a suit and tie the whole time So what was he wearing today? I think it was black t shirt, although he took Kemry Badden doctor Tusy last week saying it was dark blue in his t shirts. But anyway, wearing a t shirt with a jacket over the top. Whenever he appears in the House of Commons, of course, because there are rules around these things, he is more formally dressed. But the way he chooses to dress and has chosen to dress in public in the last ten years is is part of, if you like, the the brand Burnham Fashion aside, what did you make of him? Or fashion included if you prefer Fisil I mean, I've tracked a bit of the Manchester story kind of actually my own first ever piece was about Manchester's regeneration way before Andy Burnham in the nineteen ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight right? You the first piece of reporting? report that got my apprenticeship in journalism. Yeah was ha't. Oh, I no, was wasc. was was about how after the IR bomb thirty years ago The key insight was that a group of the great and good at the top of the council decided not to rebuild that part of the Andale Centre and the regeneration started from there What does that show you? It shows you that Manchester has been built up as a kind of one, well the city of Manchester at least, as a kind of one party state where they've been mainly labour councllors and labour council but able to run things to a sort of long term strategic agenda run by a fairly tight group of people. who've been able to ram through a change, catalyysed by the RA bomb, catalyysed with some public money, in a way that I think Some people don't really get, you know, and it doesn't quite fit in to the sort of left right spectrum people like to apply. And did I asked him about this directly when I spoke to him about you know earlier this year. L is it is it status? is it what is this Manchester Way as he was calling it now Manchester isism And he said wasn't it wasn't left all right. And I think that is true in many ways Yes, it requires some strategy and planning, but it's all private sector kind of construction, building those skyscrapers. It's like sovereign wealth funds from Abu Dhabi famously obviously buy Manchester City and rebuilding a district. it's quite difficult. Now how applicable that is to the rest of the country is very reasonable question But I think to sort of circle back to what Christal said. You look at him and this is a guy who genuinely believes what he said. He believes it and he's excited about the subject of devolution, which let's be honest, If you were to sort of go to a focus group. and try and pick the five tops items, subjects. with which to sell your vision of the nation to I'm not sureort evvolution would appear in that top five, but he just kind of went for it. Well just quickly before you chip in, Chris, because this might inform what you're going to say, newscaster Jane and Haragot has been in touch who says, Dvolution seems to be the word of the day with Andy Burnham. What does it mean? How would it work? What other cities will be involved? How much extra will it cost the taxpayer Many thanks and love the show. Thank you very much, indndeed, Jane. F way more informed, which scares and impresses the neighbourors. That's good. thanks, Jane. I mean, that's interest she's right, isn't it? Devolution was the word of the day. It was the word of the day, and a lot of Jane's questions are absolutely worth asking and we don't have a lot of the answers to them yet. We have some of the answers but not a lot of them. Picking up on Fisel's point, what'sascinating is that the central pitch for Andy Burnham in his What was his team regard as the sort of foundational text of his approach to governing was about processes. It was about structures of government. Now I'm not saying for a moment they don't matter. They can absolutely shape outcomes. Some people will have views about at what level it is most appropriate to be governed from because that's the essence of the devolution where should power lie? But in the end, it is a process question and what will really matter is the outcome it generates. Ady Burnham can make an argument and there's a separate argument about the extent to which he can take credit for it or others should in terms of the transformation of Manchester in the last over the last generation In the end as Prime Minister, Azzmau in any other role, it'll be the outcomes that he is that he is in the end held to account for or can stand on at an election with a record or not behind him Well, for what it's worth, the dictionary definition, according to Chambers of Devolution is a handing over of powers or the delegation of certain powers to regional governments by a central government, which I suppose is what we're talking about here. So there we go. Let's just listen to Andy Burnnham himself because he kicked off The main bulk of this speech with what was a pretty stinging diagnosis of how the country has been run in recent years. So let's just have a listen to that. ten years of political turbulence since Brexit twenty years of falling living standards since the two thousand eight financial crash. Westminster hasn not been working for people. And it hasn't been working for a very long time In fact It is broken And as a result, the country isn't where it should be. It is stuck in a rut, and clearly we can't go on like this My generation of politicians, including me, must take responsibility We haven't been good enough. But instead of being honest about that, the parties have continued with politics as usual, finger pointing, point scoring. Now, that might matter less in a world where people's lives are getting better. But when they are not It is dangerous and destructive of what remains of public trust in politics We cannot go through another decade like the one we have just had What do you make either of you of that as a piece of analysis of where we are Well, I mean, what's interesting is we've heard of Broken Britain before, haven't we? and there's been many debates about that. But he's saying something slightly different. He's saying Westminster is broken. And Whitehole. And White Hole The point being broken to maybe I mean lots of newscastters will get that disinction, but Westminster being broadly speaking the politicians and Whiteole, broadly speaking being the civil servants roughly fair. Yeah. And so the to go beyond the process these sorts of more devolved decision making in regions. is very normal across Europe. And that is why when peopleeople lucky enough to go on holidays to places like Barcelon or Bil Bao or any German city that's not Berlin, it is normal to see a metro system, an integrated transport system, you know sort of slightly more functional public services that seem like they're planned if the population goes up, they plan school places to go up a little bit more and you know just sort of things that that is what that is what he is doing talking about H. and You know, to turn all that round quickly is quite something. Is devolution the only reason? or is there also an issue about funding of public services there that he didn't address at this point. U there are many issues that go into that But I think The idea He's defining what the problem is both economically but also politically so that he can ill the space of what the solutions are and what we talk about. You know, do you see that K timeama didn't do that? And frankly, and discussed Did Niichl Frest decide? political space and what time was spent, what problems were to be addressed. He's sort of getting in there and saying, no no, this is the problem and I'm going to spend all my time talking about it. And by the way, so you And that comparison with Germany in particular Andy Berham and Steve Rotherham, who's the Labour mayayor of the Liverpool City region, wrote a book together a couple of years ago Feshing out this this diagnosis. Two former labour MPs who left Westminster, said they were fed up with Westminster, went on to run their home city regions and then wrote a book and which lots of us have been re deevouring in the last couple of weeks. And one of the chapters gets right into the German model and I might be putting the umlaut in there for the pronunciation of the wrong place here, but the landders or the regions of Germany set out constitutionally, as Fizer was fleshing out, to have mechanisms that ensure there isn't a concentration of power only in the capitol, only in particular metropolitan centers. And they talk proudly about inviting a German regional politician to a convention of the North that they set up a couple of years ago today to hear that to hear that argument out That's the vision to get Fr where we are now, just in terms of the piping, the plumbing of the UK constitutional settlement or in this instance, the Englland I was trying to say that English Cstitutional settlement is one heck of a journey when you' three years out maximum from Andy Burnham's perspective, if becomes Prime Minister from a Germal electation. I mean, from my perspective, living in Scotland, I have to say we've had quite significant devolution in these islands for since since nineteen ninety nine in terms of the Scottish Parliament, the Wales Senneth and in a slightly separate process, obviously, but the Northern Ireland Assembly at stormment. So we maybe come on to that we think a bit of that. Two things inter it. But before that justust sticking with England And this isn't just about England, but perhaps the most significant thing that Andandy Burnham today announced in terms of process. and to be fairther we're sprinkling a policy as well'll also come on to. But maybe the most significant process thing was this idea of a new number ten in the North. Let's listen to him Describe that job of number ten offorth. will be to make power flow into the Midlands into the southwest into the east of England and yes, into London, as I said before As much as into the Northeast, Yorkshire and the Humber and here in the Northwest It will be about offering new opportunities to extend devolution in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland taking power deeper down. The people of Dundee and Banger feele just as distant from Hollywood and the Senate as they do from Westminster Get this. Num ten North will be the nerve center of a rewired Britain just again, just not to pick on all the Scottish aspects, but I'm not sure that it's entirely fair to say that the people of Dundee as a whole feel closer are farther away from as far away from Hollywood as they do Westminster, But leaving that to one side, I think you find quite a lot of people in Dundee, which is a pro independence, you know city that voted for Scottish independence, a pretty staunch Scottish National partarty city in partart anyway I'm not sure that's true. to be honest, that people there feel as distant from Hollywood as they do from Westminster. I'm not saying people don't think there are problems with Hollywood or problems with public services in Scotland. And actually that's an interesting question in the context of devolution is the solution? becausecause if it were the solution, then Scotland should be the land of happiness and milk and honey and there's definitely issues in Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland as well as there are in England. I was struck today listening to the argument and observing who was in the audience. So the audience was chaker with Labour mayors, directly elected mayors English cities and regions, that whilst Andie Burnham did talk about Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Much of his devolved argument was looked at through an English prism I don't think we should be that surprised by that The guy has been a mayor of an English city region for the best part of the last decade. Incidentally, trivial point but I'll mention it anyway, it was brought to my attention today just about this number ten North idea That there is a Downing Street industrial estate in Danchester. There are only though, eight units on it. there's no number nine and there's no number ten.'n. Chris, do you know anything more about what this means number ten North and how it would work? And would the Prime Minister be based there someere all of the time? Do we have any details? We're getting a bit of a sense of it On the one hand, you know it is not unique for a British government to have offices that are not in London. There are aspects of the civil serervice scattered all around. the UK and the last goovernment set up a treasury campus in Darlington in the north east of England, not a million miles away from Rishiunak's seat in Parliament in Richmond and North Alliton. I think the difference with Andy Burnham's idea is that it would be pointedly more political So we hear that he may have a deputy chief of staff who is based in that numberumber ten North and that the mission of the numberber ten North would speak specifically around the devolution agenda Now, Cynic might say, you've got your chief of staff in London and your deputy chief of staff in Manchester. so you can sort of you but then ultimately, of course, London is the seat of power of the government. It is where the Prime Minister spends a huge amount of their time. So that seems to be an element of how the, if you' like the wiring of Andy Burnham's vision for government would be. and then we can get on to some of the policy ideas that he hopes that that office could out. But this is where the detail really matters, right? L When you look at the international comparisons here Reions, states in America use the tax system to attract business attract employment, attract jobs Uh they is this is this about spending Is it about borrowing? this is another key area. If a certain locality or city, region is fast growing Its population is growing. and this is an example, I think, this is a classical example. The city of Manchester its population was five hundred in the nineteen eighties. liivving in the central world That's amazing. Yeah, it' was completely de populated So they've repopulated.'s the thing?ks about it's over one hundred thousand on course to a quarter of a million because there's so many Just think about that for a minute. Just think about what manstterism is. in Manchester they're boasting about repopulating, increasing the population of Manchester because of why? it brings a tax base, grow. It's real, it's growth Just let's Dial back again to the sort of conversations we have at the Westminster level, about population, about migration shouldould it go up? Should it be the same? It's quite a different perspective on all of this What are regions around the world that manage to compete? If you have this population growth, you want a decent transport system. To accommodate that, it's creaking at the seams. So you would borrow money based on the fact that your population is growing full of nice graduate jobs, serving universities there are in your cities And they're trying to keep graduates in these cities is the point but you want to invest in a significant transport system. You borrow money, okay. Now, is he going to allow all these city regions to borrow money? That's ultimately Dvolution, But hang on a minute You just said you' keeping to the fisc rules, you're going to have strict controls on borrowing. So But you're going to allow what all the labour councs? What about the reform councils? Are they going allowed to go borrow ten billion for a new tram system or something? This is where the detail is so, so key. but also how devolution feels because one of the criticisms or the critiques that you hear of the current devolved model either at an English regional level or at a national nations level within the UK. The current formula creates a temptation for grievance so that those outside of Westminster all too often, their easiest political crutch, if you like, is to blame Westminster. Now, the argument goes that that is much easier to do and arguably a much more in general terms, a much more plausible argument to make when Westminster continues to hold a lot of power, whether that be around money or ces or the capacity to borrow whatever it might be. So how far and where and on what time scale, Is Andy Bernon willing to deliver on this vision. if it's going to get anywhere near as close as some of the examples, whether it's Germany or individual states in the US or whatever it might be that he and others talk about when they talk about what they would see as a proper devolution. And there was something N which I really want to askr about, which was this idea Does he really mean that that he didn't he doesn't the whipping system of MP? Well, goo for your life guys, you can rebel. D he really mean quite so to get rid of it? He said that he would stop being mean with it. Yeah. So this So another big theme that he explores in this book with Steve Rotheram and he's talked about a lot since he since he left Westminster is that he grew to really dislike what Westminster calls the whipping system. In other words, the discipline mechanism that exists to try to ensure that a collection of MPs of the same political party all vote in the way that the leadership to want them to vote. And he argues in the book I was rereading this on the train on the way to the speech this morning that he thinks the whole whipping system is completely ridiculous and should be pretty much abandoned. That my words not his, but that's the broad. the broad sentiment. and I thought im Minister three weeks ago, know somewh different mayaybe there might be some evolution going on with that argument. Now And I thought, willill he even mention it? Now he did, to be fair, mention it. Now, I think where he hasn a ladder that he can climb down to a process where I mean, look, I will be flabbergasted to put it gently if when we hear about Andy Burnham's cabinet. in a few weeks time, if it happens in a few weeks time. Granted, the appointment of a chief wit will not be the most eye catching, but it would be very eye catching if there wasn't one The will be what. Now the argument he was making today, which he is helped by some decision making from Kir Stara is that he would apply it. he says sort of less vigorously or in a way that isn't seen to be as a critic might see it vindictive. So K Stama from very early on, despite their vast majority willing to use the Westminster language, suspend the whip, remove the whip from Labour M pes, who were basically disobedient I think you might see an approach from Kstama sorry, from Andy Burnham. get used to that sentence formulation, where perhaps he's a little bit more relaxed about rebellion up to a point. but I've never come across any prime Minister who is utterly relaxed about Rebellions when they get rather No, no, I could imagine. Now, what about policy? We've talked about process, we've talked a bit about devolution. There was some policy about this speech. Correct me if I'm wrong, if I've missed one of them, the main ones, I promised to cut business rates in England in England am to build new council houses in England, not social ouses or affordable houses, but council houses, which rather implies continuing to be owned by the state after they've been built and presumably funded by the state in terms of the building. And with all sorts of questions back to Fisl's point around financially how that works. Exactly. And he talks about potholes and fixing potholes. I mean, the think actually on your point, Fisel, the thing that struck me listening to that was that These things aren't just, I don't at least it strikes me that they don't seem to just be about administration and about power but also about money, potholes being a case in point, is The failure to fix potholes at the moment a result of the council's not having the power to fix potholes? Well, presumably not. It's presumably that the councils feel they don't have enough money to fix the potholes. Where does the money come from? if you're going to stick to the existing borrowing rules and tread very carefully in those terms? I mean, maybe his argument is, well, the devolution of power in and and of itself generates growth. Don't you need to fix the portoles before the businesses want to drive the trucks down the road that generates the growth? You know I'm not entirely sure how it works. But I think he's clearly identified and believes that there is a mass constituency in this country to sort, if you like, rebuild Britain and to get capital spending pumping far harder than it has been and to speed that up, will then manifest itself in fix potholes and cououncil homes is there's something they've pioneered actually in Greater Manchester in terms of the accounting for for how councils can do this, that they want that they want to spread everywhere Um But I think a broader point is All of this sounds like it's going to cost money And if you're sticking to the foorrowing rules, which is If you're sticking to the pledge of the twenty twenty four manifesto not to increase the major taxes, you fundamentally do not have the same constraints. Therefore, does more capital spending on, I don't know, like the Liverpool to Manchester high speed train line necessarily mean less spending elsewhere Or can you tweak something within the rules to spend more on capital? Hang on, what about the defense spending about tomorrow U So so I think I think this is this is a delicate balancing act. By the way, his advisers quietly and may be speaking too soon here, but it seems to have gone quite well so far. reassuring over the fiscal rules seems to have yielded almost like complete calm in the markets, which I think given absolute upheaval that Chris has been reporting on every night would be seen as a relatively Okay. results I am So We await the name of the Chancellor, but like and we're going to be waiting sounds like u till the fifteenth or sixteenth days. Well on that on that there was a mention wasn't there of and he said, I'm not going to be naming any names from for his top team. You know where this is going to you have a naming naming any names for his top might head Yeah actually. And he had a job at the Westminster press pack And he mentioned you by name. He did was formally. m did he did. so so so I'm blushing a bit here. So I think there's two reasons for this. One is because obviously my job comes with a certain kind of profile. Secondly, because I have this habit of leaning against the wall during speeches rather than sitting down, I rather stood out and I caught his eye. as he was saying it. And he said, goodood morning, Mr. V. He didn't say good morning to which I nodded a good morning back. Two things. So a couple of thing points to make about that that little moment One is don't underestimate how much this matters Kissummer would never do that who just never do that. There was Andy Burnham, just ad liiving in the moment on the stage to make a point, Gentle josh a journalist and that's what it was meant as and you know, and that's fine. And again, just that comfortable being comfortable on the stage. I would say in my defense that I forget the exact phrase that he used to describe some of the reporting U Hopeless speculation or wild speculation. I would say that what we have reported about who may or may not feature in his cabinet is well sourced. It's fluid because they're still making their minds up, but it isn't wild speculation. you know we so when we are reporting, we're doing so because we are comfortable with the veracity of what we're being told I also thought that your defense was that the time at which this was supposed to have been happening, you had lost your voice anyway. Well it couldn't have been you. there were no questions uming you'd gone to Manchester, lotots of other journalists had gone to Manchester. There are lots of very legitimate questions I mean we've been talking about for Mr. Bern. In their defense, they didn't mislead us because they told us before we set off that there wouldn't be any questions. So in that sense, we weren't invited under a false perspective, but it' wor saying it's two things This is the second time now where in the last ten days where he's been in front of reporters and has avoided questions. So The Friday after he'd won the by election the night before. He kind of run away literally r away from our questions on the on the the haallllowed turf of Ashton foootball Club and And then today he didn't. Now look, if you're one of his strategists and you are trying to do a big vision thing about what you want to say to the country The argument for not taking questions is if you had taken questions, I' have asked him and Beth Rigby from Sky and various others, you know, is Ed Millibbank going to be your Chancellor? How are you going to get on with Donald Trump? What about the deffense investment plan and that would have become part of the story as opposed to it being about his pitch. The counter is, here is a Prime Mister, if he gets the job very shortly, which looks highly likely, who arrives mid parliament who has faced not the scrutiny of a leadership race if there isn't a leadership race, which looks likely. And a debate, you know, when this happened with the Conservatives, we were sat like chucking various questions Liz Tuss and some of that is happening. Yeah, they went through a summer of scrutiny. bothoth of them and then they ended up both having a go at the job, you know. And Andy Burnham is not likely to get any of that because if he doesn't face a arrival, it's all going to happen very quickly. So at what point does the scrutiny come? They insist his team, I should say that he will face scrutiny, he'll be put in front of journalists in the next couple of weeks, etcera, et cetera. But in terms of the econ of this, this is where the Vend Dagram crosses over quite interestingly. and I just wonder if the Labour Party has actually decided This is precisely what it doesn't want, that it wants almost to pass the mandate you know, intact Is it the Ming vast? I don't know what it is like just directly over Andy Ber. without The hostages to fortune, you get serious hostages to fortune in a situation like this. David Cameron on like Brexit. The promises he had to make to become right Yeah you know, you know st in when he wins that leadership campaign back in whenever it was. Yeah ye. So You know, and then but there are serious questions we'd like to ask them that I think sa the labour members would be interested. So for example, the make a field test. okay. So what one constituency has a veto on, let's say whereere Brexit goes, you know, where the Brexit reset goes, you know The Cabinet was starting to say that we're going to throw, you know Have another look at the redlines for the next manifesto Now on taxation. No, no, for the red lines onU membersre on rais the pardon. Yeah, that raises at least the prospect of a conversation about some great involvement with the single market Does that survive a makeakefield test? Would the labour members actually think, well hang on, I don't want to make field test on that one, because actually labour membership probably are quite to point of a single marketing On welfare, which is another area where with the fiscal rules, he leaned into that very purposefully, I think to say I can be tough on things like spending. and he did it by saying I will accept you know endorsing the Melbourne process, which may come up with some quite tough stuff on welfare spending. So that is quite an interesting one to watch We'd like to know if he would wouldould he endorse whatever Milboururn comes up with? Universal credit being cut and the like. I mean, there are my two, you've got probably one hundred two more. And I can't resist for newscasters and the Brexit caster Aficionados amongst them to just flesh out that example you gave from twenty years ago because of a leadership race within a party promise made on the stump against an internal rival had real consequences, which you hinted at. So David Cameron running against David Davis, David Davis broadly to his right and more Eururosceptic. David Cameron promised to take the Conservative partarty out of the centre right grouping in the European Parliament, theP, the European People's Party, and then did that leader And you that was in the f running discussions and debates within the Conservative Party and beyond around the whole question of our place in the European Union. And that came about in the cut and thrust of internal competition within a party for a leadership position. Now I'm not saying whether a leadership race is better or not than not having one but they do have consequences. And on that point about the sort of handing on of the Ming vars, so far at least, and as I say, he does say Mr. Bernamou will subject himself to plenty of scrutiny in the coming weeks, but there's a finite amount of how much of that there will be given the time frrame that we're lookingooking at And So yeah, that will mean perhaps that he gets through the door of Downing Street clinging on to you know, that v is perhaps intact or more parts of it or whatever. let' be doing c kickups with it. Because he hasn't had to the point being, he's trying to get through it without having any of these questions. Cpletely. So he get a clean he gets a sort of clean sl This seems to be why So why I think the markets are calmer than you might think because they think well A he said, listen, I'm fisyscically prudent Now believe that or not let Let's see whereher the chancell decision goes but he also appears to There seems to be prospect now maximum probability that he get through the doors of Downing Street without having to Too many promises One of which is interesting. Someone very close to him said to me over the weekend that The thing is this person s to me because of where he's come from, in other words, not being in Parliament prior to ten days ago, is that he's not beholden to anyone. Now what they meant by that was the wider party rather than the markets or wer the wider country But you take that thought one step on to exactly what we've just been kicking around and that capacity to try and arrive in office relatively cleanly The flip side to that is if you leave lots of those unanswered questions and Richie Sounak had a bit of this because even though he went through a leadership race, it was widely assumed rightly all the way through it that he would be the loser. and so there was more attention paid to his rival. But he was still on upteeen public stages in front of cameras, taking upteen questions principally from Conservative partarty members That's not happening with Andy Burner The we A lot more questions anyway, one way or the other for Andy Burnham and we'll trying to answer as many of them as we can on newewscast. Chris. Thankk you very much. J James. Fisal, thank you very Thank you Right, that's nearly all from us, but please do keep sending in your supported reporters, a reminder that we are looking for a newscaster in or connected to every nation, which is appearing at this year's World Cup. And we have so far supporter reporters for Brazil Culaao, Canada. Thankks very much, Lisaet and several other countries, but we're still on the hunt for more. So we have one more, and that is Caroline. Thank you very much, Cadoline. Newscaster Caroline has been in touch and Cataline says, I haven't heard you mention a listener from Portugal as a supporter reporter. I'm from the Greater Lisbon area where I've lived for over thirty years. withith Scotland out of the World Cup knockouts Thanks for reminding me. I'll be supporting the Portuguese team, captained by the record brereaking CR seven