Comparing Yoshi to Other Nintendo Games

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Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five preremium, and a year of Xbox GamePass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Learn more at windows d. com slash student offffer. Law Supplies last ends june thirtieth turns at aka. mS slash college PC This week, it's our Yoshi and the Mysterious book Review discussion. NVC starts right now You've switched to Nintend Voice chatn for the week of may twenty second, twenty twenty six. I'm your host, Logan Plant. It's Yoshi in the mysterious book, A launch Week. and we have the reviewer for IGN Tom Marks. Hello Niclamone Hey, thanks for having me. and special guest from kind of funny and formerly from IGN. it's Tim Gettyies. Hey, welcome back to NVC, Tim. Thank you man. It's been way too long since I've been on NVC. I think the last time was at IGN's last studio in San Francisco. Oh wow. Yeah It was with Rebecca Valentine and them We were talking about If we'll ever see a Donkey Kong game again. this is years before Bonanza. Soew exist. Exactly. I'll takeen. Yeah, yeah, and the best one ever too. I got hired at IGM the month that that SF office was no more. So yeah, we have not overlapped on NVBC, but I'm thrilled to have you. We've become really good friends over the years talking Nintendo. I've been on kind of funny a few times talking about reviews for bonanza, things like that. so it's great to have you To talk about Yoshi and the mysterious book, which you reviewed over on Kind of Fny this week, so go check out that games Gast for a bunch of Tim's thoughts. But we're gonna to talk about it right now. Tom, your review is up on IGN, you give it a six out of ten. That means it's okay. Tell me about Yoshi Yeah, it's um This review and this experience was very much characterized by like disappointment more than anything else, I guess, because I love the concept of it. we talked about on the Yoshi episode, right a few weeks ago, this idea of like You know, it could be really interesting if they use these This concept of like this experimentation and this discovery of new creatures in an interesting way, or it could kind of just be thin if they don't end up using that in sort of a deeper way that, you know puts those things into like tests you on those things or makes you think differently about those different discoveries that you've made kind being that in a lot of ways. To be clear, I don't think it's a bad game. I really had fun a lot of the time I was playing it, right? Like it isn't a very enjoyable game. It's just one that doesn't really take full use of a good idea and even, as I said in my review shows how it could make full use of that idea and then just doesn't after that point. And so like yeah, really this review is characterized by disappointment more than anything else. And also notably is not a discussion like we've had around some Yoshi games and some sort of quote unquote kids games where it's not really a question of like, this game was too easy. It wasn't even that wasn't even really the conversation in a way that I assumed it would partially be with games like this, usually. So yeah, a funny one, a very pretty game Very lovely music, very lovely art style, love the concept and just sort of didn't do enough with it is my overall thoughts Yeah, that's good to hear that there's lovely music because if you listen to our Yoshi episode a couple weeks ago, you know that's not a guarantee. Yoshi's new Island. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? Yeah, I amm actually really aligned with Tom. Tom, I listened to your review. I thought you did an excellent job of explaining what this game is, what it does well, and what it definitely could have done better. I'm a little higher than you, and I ended up giving it a seven on the kind of funny scale, which correlates to the word good. But the funny thing is as I was playing and just kind thinking about my experience, I was leaning more towards that six And it wasn't until I was really thinking about what those numbers correlate to as words. And for us, six meant fine or okay. And seven is good. And I was like, you know what? I had a good time with this game. I do think that it's a little bit better than okay. and you leading with disappointment, I feel like I might be coming kind of from the opposite side been so let down by some Yoshi games in the last couple last generation, I would say. And this is coming from possibly the world's biggest Yosh's Island fan. I love that game so dearly. It is in my top ten games of all time. It's the first video game I ever beat. My four month old baby's nursery is Yoshi's Island themed. Congratations by the way. Thank you very much I'm a huge Yoshi guy, Yoshi Island specifically. and I know you are too, Tom. So we've been on this journey together through the I'd say ups and downs, but if I'm being honest, it's kind of just the up and then some downs and a couple like, you know, Yoshis story. Yoshi's new or not new Island. I didn't like that one. Yoshi's Island Des Uh, you know, she's woolyworld, Like S worord good games, you know, They're just not anywhere close to Yoshi's Island. So seeing this for the first time, I was like, okay, I'm getting hints of Yoshi's island more than I have from Crafted World or Woolly World, but with this new kind of take about being more about being curious and discovering things and way more of an open adventure as opposed to you know obstacle based platform levels, right? And I kind of went into that being like, I don't know if it's going to work for me. And I was surprised at how much it did. So I think me and you are completely aligned in our thoughts on the game. It's just you kind of came out of it disappointed, whereereas I came out of it M more impressed than I expected to be for the game. And I think that is the difference between the six and the seven. but yeah, it is right in there Yeah, I'm only about two hours in. I didn't get an early code, so I've been playing it since launch. And so far, I see everything that both of you guys said in your review. And Tom, the main kind of analogy that you made that has really stood out to me is you called this game video game bubble wrap, essentially, And that it's fun enough to pop, but once it's popped that's it and then there's not much left to do. So can you kind of just describe how this game plays level to level and why it fell short for you in some ways? Yeah, well, so the bubble wrap thing Stuck with me as an analogy when I thought about it while reviewing because I think one of the things that is so different about this game from most platformers and this is not an intrinsically bad thing Um, is that Be the kind of meat of the fun of a level is experimentation and like Tim said, curiosity and finding these discoveries, Once you've found them Like You can't You can find new stuff, you can find other stuff that you haven't found, but that is gone. And so if you give someone a sandbox and you say find all these discoveries in it, then there's not any replayability to that sandbox. and I say this in the review as well that like you don't need the replayability, not that you don't have to go back and play all of these levels. but It is funny that to have a game that is Ostensibly a platformer, although I would argue that this game is barely a platformer. Again, not that that's a bad thing. It just is not where it put it puts its focus at all But it's funny to have a game like this with levels that basically get used up where it's like, okay, I'm I've done that level that I can't really go back to it is interesting. It I don't know, it's just very different and that didn't really stick with me super well Because then when it does say, Hey, do you want to find all these discoveries you haven't found? you go back into the levels and then you just sort of don't really care about the rest of the level. There are a couple levels that are exceptions to this that are like there's one level with like clouds where you're trying to collect all of these clouds that will like build a boat that you are on and it's like a moving level. And like that level is, you know, there's some challenge there that is revisible. but the levels that are just like way more sandboxy are way more just sort of explore and find the things that you need to find really don't hold much appeal after that And I think that that hurts then the Discovery collllection later But yeah, it it's I don't know. I might just be rambling at this point. It. I totally agree with what you're saying. and I think that that is even more heavily evidenced by the fact that this is, in my opinion, the greatest that Yoshi's ever controlled. Like this to me is the Yoshi's island feel, but taken to the max in a very modern way, like I love that you can use the right stick to aim his eggs. That's great. Yeah, That is very nice The the way that you can, uh aim the tongue and just It's the traditional Yoshi moveset with the ground pound and the fllutter jump and even the way the Flutter jump works here, like the arc that it has and how much you can use it. All of it, I really, truly think is the best Yoshi's ever felt. none of that is really used in this game. And that's the weird thing is it's like The game plays and presents itself like a platformer, but it's so rarely a platformer in those ways that I think that is kind of a problem that I have because to your point about the discoververy is like once you make them all and you want to go back into a level, like the bubble wrap analgae is so good because it really is the level on When you go it's not about replaying the level. It's about finishing the level, like completing all the things you didn't do the first time When you go back I have an empty world. Like there's the world all the discoveries are just text that you're walking by and it's not satisfying. And like I am a huge Nintendo fan and I'm a huge hundred percent fan. Like when I love a Nintendo game, just like Logan, I want to get in there and do every single thing that it's asking me to do. I love just checking off all the creative uses that Nintendo puts into its games, specifically platformers. and I'm really not wanting to hundred percent this game. I had a great time with it. but The going back to the levels, I think is actively not. And I think I think a reason for that is because the discoveries themselves very often aren't Interesting It's interesting to find them. Like it's interesting to st it's fun to stumble upon a discovery, but When you get to the point where you finished the level and it's telling you discoveries you've missed and it's just like, go put this dude in honey. and you're like, okay, I'll go put the dude in honey and you go into it a level that is done otherwise and you put the dude in honey and it's like, good job. Now go put that dude in mud. And you're like, okay, like that's that's the discoveries themselves are not actually like inherently interesting sometimes a lot of this like, you know, sometimes they are. but When so when you are just ticking off the boxes, yeah, it's not like the the action of doing that is specifically fun. It's the the very like They just throw these things at you in a way that is really exciting the first time you're going through a level and that's fun to be like, oh, that guy fell at honey and I got a discovery. likeike that's more the fun place. Yeah, it's just like a very different vibe revisiting a level is a very different vibe than going through it the first play. Yeah. And the thing is you're not going to get everything the first time through. like unless you're incredly So many discoveries so many discoveries. And and that's the thing is like I feel like I'm coming off very negative like to back my my score of saying this is a good game do think that first time through There's a lot of fun to be had.ike so many of the discoveries are very simple things and obvious things, but once you kind of learn what the game is expecting of you to try in every level, then I am anytime I see mud, I'm trying to get every creature in the mud at least once because I know that's going to trigger something. And I found so much joy in when I would do that four levels in a row and on the fourth level, it did something different And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, cool, this thing interacts with that thing that way. And It really builds on itself in a way that I found very satisfying. and I know in your review, Tom, you're talking about how they finally introduce a major mechanic of this game pretty late and then don't really use it enough and I fully fully agree because man, that opens everything up of like, whoa, this game could have been special if Yeah the levels were focused on mechanic introduced later. whichich we can now we're no longer under the embargo that Nintendo stipulated. Yeah, I did like light mechanical spoilers, I guess I don't wan to know the lightest. Yeah, we'll avoid the story stuff and all that, but basically there is a level where its end of chapter six, so it's like for me it took about eight hours to get to, right? Me too which is like deep into the game, you know, it's like two thirds of the way through the game basically. And they do this level where you Can Yoshi As a basically a little partner friend that can transform at will into any creature you've met before. And the level itself is this wonderful open ended thing where it's just like, here's a waterfall. What are you gonna to do to get over it? Okay, now you're over the waterfall. hereere's an enemy that's attacking you. What are you going to do to beat it It really tests you. It really is like gives you the power to just explore this level in the space and find the flowers and the discoveries in whatever way you want to. And that rules so hard and I was so convinced that that was gonna be like the act two of the game was gonna be all about this transformation mechanic. And then it just Like outside of a very late game, another very late game thing I won't spoil that it does make it does is revisited very briefly J never comes back And they just never use it again shame And I just like I couldn't I genuinely couldn't believe that because it is such a good idea and it works so well and it so clearly could have been an entire video game and then they just don't use it again. and I like I was I was kind of flabbergasted by that because it It felt like they came up with the idea way too late in development. they couldn't pivot or something. Like's that's not literally what happened. It's just, you know It's just the vibe of it is like, oh, like why wouldn't you just do all of that? I don't know, I don't know. I was really that I think one of the places I may be more harsh is that that put me into a funk for the second half of the game when it does go back to like Here's some more creatures that are not gonna be really used in this way again. And I was like, why am I doing this? Like it made me a little bitter, which I admit is like maybe a little unfair, but that's just the mindset it put me in. Yeah, I mean, five course meal in the third course is one of the best things you've ever had. and then you go back to just like fine for the last two. I think that totally makes sense. It's the uncut gems, Kevin Garnet. Why would you show me this if I can't have it Yeah Yeah, it's interesting because it's like to even expound a little bit more on what Tom's saying, it's like you get the ability to switch between all the creatures you've learned about for the past and like in the same level, you could just keep doing it back and forth and back and forth to different creatures. And that's so cool. And I think that this game is at its best when you have that here's the Kingdom Breath of the Wild moment of being like, I wonder if this thing works this way because I think it might. The logic mostly works and its just like those games that are some of the best games of all time.'s like how satisfying it is when you're like, I wonder if I could use this weapon to do this thing and it happens and it interacts in a way that like is satisfying. This game has a lot of those and it's in that level you're talking about that it shines. L it's like, o, there are twenty different ways to get up this waterfall You have seen so many creatures and multiple of them can Achieve your goal. And I think that level of creativity is very cool because all those creatures function very differently and you're going to get up that waterfall in entirely different ways. Like I bet the way I got up is very different than the way you got up. And that is so cool. Io. Yeah. Yeah, very modern Nintendo for sure. And then you go back to just more levels that are just like the older ones. and it's like, huh And also, that's another thing that I thought was weird is the game straight up ends There's credits And then there's just more game. Yeah, someome devs love doing that because I remember the funniest one to me was Mster on a Rise. Monster on a Rise, they like Credit roll after the single player stuff and the story wasn't resolved at all. And there was like a whole second campaign, basically. Yeah, some devs just love doing those mid mid game credit rolls for some reason. Yeah And it's weird because it doesn't feel like a lot of games do it and like it makes sense. I mean, Mario sixty four Beat the game, you can still get a ton more stars and all of that, right? Like that makes sense to me. This is just kind of like where the credits hit doesn't feel like anything's done. No at all izarre Yeah, I did want to say speaking of credits and devs, we now know Goodfield didt make this. I mean that's what we all kind of thought, but Nintendo, of course didn't tell us until Tom hit the credits and was like, texted me, he was Goodfield. And so they made Yoshi's Wooy World, Yoshi's crafted World, M most recently, Princess Peach Shtime for Nintendo and now Yoshi in the mysterious book. And this is not a knock against Goodfield. I think they make very good two great games. I think Woo World is a great game. The rest of them, I think are very good But I think something I've just noticed was some kind of beat tier Nintendo games over the last couple years is it is Teams that are not quite at the caliber of Nintendo internally, which I mean they're the greatest teams in the world, so very few are trying to take swings like those teams do. I thought that about Echoes of wisdom. Grezo, a very talented, great developer. The echoes mechanic did not work for me in the way that something like Tears of the Kingdom's Ultra handand infuse and Zone eye devices do. Now Yoshi in the mysterious book is trying this systems driven thing and it doesn't seem to be working as well as like Bonanza and the Zeldas and things like that. Well the other thing I would say about it is systems driven is such like a jargony term, ye This game look, I think this game looked like it was going to be more systems driven than it actually ended up practically being like A good example of what I mean is like mud in the game You learned very early on that like mud you know, affects some creatures some way, like the bubble level is really, really early and if the guy who like you run and it makes bubbles and the bubbles go up, and if they're covered in mud, then instead the bubbles are heavy and the bubbles go down You use that in that level and I don't think it ever comes up again. There's another level that is these exploding nuts. And if an exploding nut is wet or covered in mud, it won't explode. And you use that in one part of that level, and then like mud just doesn't isn't really a thing. Like I think's there's a lot of different systems E things in this game, but they don't ever really like They don't really give you the opportunity to explore those in a way that is not prescribed. Which I think is a big reason why this didn't to me feel like Yoshi's Breath of the Wild moment, because Breath of the Wild was like, here's all these different systems, you figure out how you want to use them. Whereas this game is like, here's all these different systems. you have to specifically use mud in this level and this level. and then everywhere else it's just kind of there or not important I'm like That's that's a big difference to me is this idea of A system driven game giving you all the tools, teaching you the rules of this world and then just letting you figure it out versus giving you tools and systems that it wants you to use in very specific ways. And I think Yoshi is the latter. and that does not mean it's not fun to figure that stuff out. like Tim was saying, on a first playthrough, it's very amusing to cover the bubble guy in mud and then go down to the secret area that's under the ground the bubbles fall or whatever. But That doesn't make that Interesting later And it doesn't make that interesting on repeat visits. Yeah It's very interesting combining two the things that both of you were just saying there. in my review, I did say that I think that this game is more similar to Zelda Echoes of wisdom than it is to Princess Peach Showtime. And that's a reference to a couple qualities of the game, Princess Pach Showtime being very much focused on kids' gameplay and Yosi being very focused on the kids gameplay in terms of the systems based stuff we're talking about, where yeah, it is more echoes of wisdom that compared to Breath of the Wild of Tears of the Kingdom. And that's not necessary. I mean, that's clearly not a good thing, right? But I do think that the level of like you can do use multiple tools to solve the problem in front of you. It does feel like echoes of wisdom where you could just kind of focus on using one really cheap thing to like keep progressing through the game and once you make that discovery or whatever it is in Zelda, you just keep going. I I'm a little let down by it all because The game I'm not bringing up that I feel like I should is Kirby in the Forgotten land. Like that's what I want from Yoshi. Like I don't need Yoshi's a Breath of the Wild moment. I need Yoshi to have a Kirby in the Forgottenland moment of All right, this is a game that is for kids and for adults and kind of pushing things forward in a way that feels like we're not needing to talk about these as beatsier Nintendo games I'm going to say something in Dt L is definitely going to get people upset, but I truly stand by it. Nintendo first party games, their main characters that are focused on in the Smash Brothros trailers and all that. They should not be releasing games that aren't at least an eight out of ten Like There's so much value in these IPs and trust between the consumers and Nintendo that their games are going to be a certain level of quality. And everything's subjective. I understand that. Obviously I'm exaggerating and being hyperbolic here. Yoshi games should be great. That should be, especially for the price there. I don't think that'll make anybody mad. They should be great. should be great. And it's I think it is not good that for some reason we're just making excuses here. 'causeuse like I'm gonna be honest, goodood feel If you were to ask the developers of this game, do they think this game is great I'm not sure the answer would be yes G go ahead Tom No, no, you go. You've reviewed the game, It reminds me a bit of like a coloring book too where like I do think probably there's gonna be some kids probably who will just like coloring the coloring book and then it'll be done and they'll move on and that's like enough But yeah, it it Forgottenland is a great example. I say this in the review. like me and my three year old play Forgottenland a lot together.'s like you know, every day basically after she gets home from her school, she She usually jumps on the couch and says, can we play Kirby? And we don't always, but like you know, occasionally we will play a level or two in a row and she has all these rituals that she does and levels that she likes playing. And I also really enjoy playing that game because forgotten Land is very, very good. Great game. And even when I'm replaying levels, I can really enjoy what it's doing. and Yeah, I think I think that that is like a very important distinction here with what you're saying too is like It feels kind of like this game Hyper focused in on being one type of thing or one sort of experiment and it lost Parents and kids can play this and enjoy it in the same way that a lot of younger skewing Nintendo games often do have. And I think Crafted World did a similar thing where Crafted World sort of lowered the bar towards kids way more than you'd expect. It's almost the same thing that like Pixar has been going through where like O of the thing that was so incredible at Pixar movies is that kids would enjoy them and then also parents could sit there and understand the deeper nuances of it. And then at some point, like some animated movies or some Pixar movies were just sort of skewing towards younger. and like that was a little bit disappointing. it feels, I think what Tim is getting at a little bit maybe is like it starts it's feeling like Nintendo sort of done that with Yoshi is that they just started hyperfcusing on something that is not sort of universally enjoyable as much anymore, which is a shame. Be I agree. Forgotten land is is a bar worth holding quote unquote be tier characters too. It is so good. And it is also not like wildly complex. That game is fairly simple overall and it just nails what it's doing Heat up your fourourth of July at the Home Depot with our wide variety of grills under three hundred dollars and make every gathering one to remember. Give your outdoor space a glow up. Whatever your budget is, with savings on seasonal plants starting at five dollars. With the grill fired up and your backyard set to perfection, you'll be able to invite friends and family over to kick off the party Start celebrating with low prices guaranteed at the Home Depot. Prices may vary by storic exes of pricey Home Depot com sl priceashatch for details I mean I think you guys are going to hear from you. You've been sitting there very, very quietly and. You know, when the reviewers are speaking, I am silent and I listen kind of thing. But no, I think you guys bring up great points and to Tim's point about, you know, these suuperstars of Nintendo. it does seem strange for them to get kind of relegated to these games that Some like ourselves might deem lesser than other ventures that they've had on different consoles. but What I've always thought about ever right before Super Mario Wonder came out, I often thought that Nintendo point put themself painted themsel into a little bit of a corner in regards to two D platformers. And you know after Super Mario Maker two, it's like, how do you iterate on something that in theory, people can make whatever they want in. And I think Super Mario Wonder added a level of whimsy. that was the joy, you know, one thing that sounds like this game does is lacking that wonder has in spades is that whimsy that has you wanting to return to the level and also the game is challenging. It has it gives you an incentive to try and reach the purple coins that are just out of reach. Like how do I get that? And it seems to me that Yoshi in general has this identity crisis that's, you know kind of been brought up since the crafted world days where I don't think Yoshi has had a game as much as I like Yoshi's story. I don't think that Yoshi has had a game that has managed to reach the high bar of Super Mario worldorld to Yoshi's Island. Oh yeah not close. I don't think that's a controversial take at all. And I think that's a problem because I would argue that every Super Mario Bothers to some every Super Mario game to some person is the best one. And I think that's a big streinth of that franchise. And I don't think Yoshi has that. And I feel like Yoshi doesn't know quite what it wants to be. Everything that I've kind of learned from your guys' reviews is it seems to me that this game and to the pixar comparison, it is not making a good use of the medium that it's in because it's torn between two different worlds Is this going to be a puzzle exploring game or is this going to be a platformer game? I don't think that those need to be divorce, but it feels like they are divorced in a way that is directly at odds with what this game is trying to do. And to me, everything you guys are describing and everything that I'm seeing on screen feels like it'd be more in line with something like a Captain Te treasure tracker as opposed to a good game. I a character that is limited in his mobility. so you give him creatures to expand that mobility. Whereas Yoshi is a joy to play. it feels good to have that flutter jump that Yoshi has except when the game doesn't give you anything to do with it, well What are you doing? Why are you Why you putting this muzzle on me? I think that's an interesting way to frame it because Like To be clear, I really am okay with them experimenting with Yoshi and saying you know what? Kirby and Mario have the platformers covered. Let's do something weird and different with Yoshi. I'm kind of cool with that But you're definitely right that it does feel like it has one foot in each world at the moment because Literally this would matter, but like functionally speaking, you could remove Eggs and the flutter jump from this game and wouldn't have to change a lot to make it work. L They're really not that important. And obviously I'm not saying you don't use them. you're using them. but Not like they're critical to they're there becausez you're Yoshi They're not there because the game wants to use them in interesting ways. Yeah. Yeah so any character could have plugged into this, which is very antithetical to how Nintendo games usually function, which is games that are built around a character's moveveset. I think about Bonanza and how these layers are built around everything he can do with a chunk. And Yoshi doesn't do that. And something I want to speak to and just like we just had this conversation about Yoshi's identity crisis. Within Nintendo and Goodfield, that same conversation was had and their solution was this concept and it didn't quite land. I feel like the concept was hey Yoshi is a little too similar to Kirby, but Kirby is doing it better. It is a kid friendly platformer, but it is creative and fun and everybody likes to play them and they go bonkers at the end and Yoshi games aren't matching that. So what do web Kirby fininal bosses are not kid friendly. No No they are gos and monsters. Yeah. And so I think the answer for Yoshi was, okay, let's go in this different direction. Let's try something fresh. Let's make Yoshi this like exploration, discovery based thing, and it's an experiment And I think this conversation would be very different if everything was like that chapter six level. and it landed, we might be sitting here and saying, they've done it. They have found a path forward for Yoshi that still feels like the DNA of Yoshi's island, which is littered with collectibles and secret paths to discover, but it's different Yeah see that's I would argue that Yoshi's Island always was that. like Yoshi's Island compared to the biggest difference between it and the Mario games of that time, they're both get to the end platformers. but and I know Mario World didn't have Mario World One didn't have this, but like You think about like Mario One, where you go left to right and you can't go back onnce you pass the screen, right? It's very much just about getting to the end. Yoshi's Island was the at that point, most expansive in terms of adventure and puzzle solving The worldld seven in Mario three, I think is the closest that we get to this, the pipe world where it is less about platforming challenge and more about puzzles of figuring out where the pipes will take you. That's the entirety of Yoshi's Island. Like Yoshi's is Island is get the red coins. like it was the introduction of red coins in the Mario universe, right? And getting all of the flowers and finding all of them and looking at every nook and cranny of the levels and you see that DNA in mysterious book. like so much of that is there. It's Going back to the Pixar conversation or the kind of identity crisis, like caught between two worlds, is so directed at kids and I do I understand that I'm a thirty six year old man talking about this and I know the comments are going to be like, like you're not a kid, you don't get it. but I struggle to believe that the children audience that We're pretending exists for this game actually exists in the way that we're like ye, I feel like we're creating something. L it's just that that person isn't real. There's a lot for kids to enjoy about this game. abbsolutely. But I don't think that Dumbing the game down the way that this game does is addding more people to that audience. Like I think that those same kids that are going to enjoy this would have enjoyed it if it had a little bit more and like what Tom's saying, like had more levels like being able to creatively use all the things together. and And then on the other side, like the more pixar like what's it doing for adults? There is so much love for Yoshi's Island in this. like pretty much any reference I would want made or any like level concept or idea or location They're all there and I was like pretty surprised at some of the deep cut stuff that they put in throughout the game. So I'm like, There is a love for the old people of the world in this game, but I don't think the gameplay backs that up. And I'm like it could, and it should. And I feel like if they were to do that, it would please both audiences We're all going in all in on Pixar and one of the biggest arguments that is so exhausting to me is when they're like, well, it's just a kid's movie. as if kids deserve less in a way. I was like, what do you mean? L you just need to make a good movie first and foremost. We were all kids when we played Yoshi's Island kids today, if they played that, they would probably like it. I don't think you need toempt to kind of quote in there is like to bring it down to a lesser level in order to think that you are you are creating an audience that doesn't necessarily exist when I think they just want to play a good game And I think that's what we did back then. So it feels it feels so different like it feels I don't want to be like, oh, hello fellow kids or hello, you know, old man yells that cloud, but it's like Just make a good game, makeake something that is like challenging and exciting in that regard. And I don't think that this is a complete miss in my perspective. Like I am curious to check out this objective based kind of platformer because one thing that sood out in your review, Tom, is that it is not a platform about getting to the end of the screen. it is about a platform about accomplishing different things throughout your course and throughout your time in the level. And that's one thing I think is actually a golden nugget that I think Nintendo is going to reserve and pocket for the next three D Mario game in a way that meaningful and cool and exciting. I just feels like a bummer to have such an interesting mechanic that it again, in my perspective, based on your review, you the I don't feel sold ultimately on this game because I trust your guys's opinion and I think that what you pointed out is all super valid. So it's just V veryy interesting. I do think the kids deserve more Yeah, this this is all hovering around. I'll talk about from the I Jen Reviews perspective, This is bring around a thing that Dan and I rest in peace. he's not actually gone. I'm just retired in peace. Yeah, retired in peace. Dan and I used to talk about a lot. It's one of the more common edits I make to people's work is Talk about your experience Don't assume how someone else will feel is like a really important kind of tenant of I think our reviews is you should not I think any timee I have said, you know, I didn't enjoy this, but maybe someone else who likes X, Y and the Z thing will, you're inventing a person and You don't know exactly what people are gonna like or how they're coming out a game or what their tastes are. And so just talk about how it made you feel and how you enjoyed. That's why when I talked about my kid not being into it, I wasn't like all kids are not going to like this. I was saying my child who usually likes X, Y and Z thing, was not into this. and this is my experience with that And I think that's a really important distinction, especially when you like And this is me throwing shade a little bit. so I apologize and if for gets to be canceled sure. Um I don't think it makes sense for adults who don't have kids and don't work with kids and aren't like teachers or whatever or you know caretakers in some way to be talking about what kids will and won't like. You don't know. likeike you don't know until you're there doing it with them. And it's again, it's just hard to make assumptions like that And kids aren't in a blanket category either. Yeah. kids gonna like. Exactly. kids will get obsessed with kids like video games. Yeah On top of that, kids will like and get obsessed with things that are objectively bad. I have plenty of games. I loved Bubsy when I was a kid. and I can still look back now older and say Bubsy was a bad game that I enjoyed when I was a kid. And just because a kid will like something does not mean that the criticism of that thing shouldn't be made. Yeah, just to bring it all back to Yoshi real quick. and my experience so far, it is such a shame to me because Tom, you have a header in your review that says like what could have been. And's when you talk about that that level in worldor six. And to me, I play the first couple of levels. I play the demo last week. I talked about it. I was really high on it. And even me Tim talked about the one hundred percent experience earlier And I one hundred percent like every Nintendo platformer that comes out. I jumped into the first level with Crazy Daisy. like you guys were saying, I find the surprise of it very enjoyable. when I'm just like, huh, I wonder if I do this and this and combine these elements. if I feed it a fruit and then I do this if something will happen. or it does. you're like, that's cool. That I really like it that's a sweet spot. Yeah, I am like in that moment, I was like, I am going to one hundred percent this game. There's a level where you're bouncing on frogs that play notes and whatever and you're playing different songs and there's different fruits. you can feed those frogs and there's like a hot pepper. and you accidentally feed one of hot pepper at first. It's like, that it makes them jump. And I'm like, oh, at the beginning of this level, there's a frog covering a hole. I need to go back with a pepper, give it the pepper and uncover the secret area That's good platform level design and it leads to fun hidden areas with more discoveries to uncover. And so in those moments, the game really, really works like you were saying. And then I finish the level And I get the hint for the next one. and I'm like, I I don't want to go back and do that because now that secret area is covered again and this whole sandbox is reset to how it was at the beginning and it feels tedious. So already me two hours in who one hundred percent every Nintendo platformer is like, I'm not going to do it either. I'm going to go in the levels, uncover whatever whatever happens happens the first time I go through, and I'm going to move on to the next one I agree with you guys, it just doesn't have that juice to make it worth going back to find these random interactions you didn't uncover the first time Anything else or should we or should we call it there on Yooshi? Last thing I want to bring up is I think the most baffling decision of this game is the kind of rewards you get later in the game to like Their kind of reward for you doing a lot of things is the ability to buy extra UI elements that allow you to like help your adventure think any of them or at least the majority of them don't actually any goal that the game sets out for you. It gives you information that can't understand why anyone would want to know Like this is Aast Yoshi's going O like life Yoshi has in a game where you don't get damaged. Only how fast Yoshi is going vertically. You have to get a different one to know if you want to get how fast he's going horizontal. It's bizarre. This is legit like Andy Kaufman level game design to me It's It feels like a bit that Bike Not everybody in Nintendo was in on, so they just went hard like it was not a bit. and it it's so funny. It is so funny to me. The amount of unlockable UI things there are is Inane. Like you fill your screen and they allow you to kind of decide where you want to lay out all these different elements. and they just go on top of like they're like superimposed over the gameplay. and you can just make your screen an entire mess of information that you don't need. Yeah, it's like it's weird It's bad. Right? Like it's the funny thing is like it's a system that does not harm the experience, right? So it's not a big deal ultimately because you can just sort of ignore it and not use the elements you don't want and whatever. It's not detriment, but it is like Not good. L its not it's not really fun because the things are so weird and so big on your screen and like there's so many of them that you're just getting like tons of junk and there's weird repeats. L I got I got a bowl that tells you the quality of the water that you're standing in which Wh never comes a mechanic. L that's not something to use in the game. And then like ten unlocks later, I got That shows you the water quality of the thing. So like it literally is the exact same thing except one is round and one is a triangle Like that's why he doing that?? What is going on here? It seems like a mechanic that's meant more for I'm rubbing my hands and looking forward to all the updates to the Nintendo wikis to see exactly what a touch fuzzy, get dizzy tastes like. what the flavor profiles are of every wall in the mushroom kingdom And I need to know Kirby's FICo score That is the thing though, because I feel like at the end of the day, what this game presents itself as like Not just at first blush 'use first blush, you're like, it's a Yoshi's Island platformer, right? But like once you get even just a step further, what this game actually is is a way for children to experience these creatures and learn about them and their biomes and all the little things that make them tick and they get to name these creatures themselves and discover them and all of that It presents it as if all that stuff is entnticing And I'm sure that it is to some people. I didn't end up naming any of my creatures anything besides just the default name, but I imagine a lot of kids would name them very funny things and they'd find a lot of joy in that end goal or the end point of that being like, all right, now you get to learn the temperatures and all this stuff. I just don't know like who's interested in that? Yeah I'm not sure strange. kids are going to learn about lore with this game. It sounds like they're the world's going to open up to Yeah I clutter your screen with garbage. it's so strange. becausecause Nintendo UI typically very clean, very good. And then it's like, well, not not here. And to its credit, the base UI is really clean and good. L it is when you don't have anything any of that turned on, it's like I love how minimalistic the UI is. I think the stamps of discoveries popping up on the screen is really, really pretty and satisfying. So like again, it's not like they got it wrong in the lake It's not like they' ruining anything. You just to unlock the option to ruin your game. Yeah. T Tim, you I think you said baffling, right? Like it is just sort of It's just confusing. like more than anything else. Yeah. Last thing I want to say about the game I had a lot of fun with it. Like There's a lot of things that I can nitpick and I think a lot of it does go back to my true belief that Nintendo games, Yoshi games, should be held to a higher standard and we should expect that. So that's where the kind of like a lot of the criticism for me comes from. But I had a lot of fun with this game and I'm very happy that I played it. and I'm going to think back on this one fondly and I am more excited for the next Yoshi game now than I was for this game a crafted world. Yeah, I'm with you there. I think I even said to Logan right after I finished the game and I was just kind of starting to write the review. I was like, I still don't know if this is going to be a six or an eight. Like because it is really enjoyable a lot of the time, but I just don't think it's like good. And ultimately what a six for me that's okay, right? is I think it's like an okay, personally, I think it's an okay game. And it's my bar is always like seven and above is something that I would just like kind of blanket recommend. I'd be like, yeah, you should check this out Six for me is like, there are definitely people who will enjoy this game. there's fun to be had here, but it's not something I can just say, yes, you should play this. And I think that's about where I am at with this is like yeah, if it looks really enticing to you, you might enjoy it, but it's not something that you're just gonna like, I would blanket recommend to everybody and it's all absolutely not something I would recommend to somebody who's looking for A new Yoshi platformer explicitly Yeah, and I guess to close out here, I just do want to give them props for trying something new because I think that is really cool. I will remember this game more than Yoshi's crafted worldld hands down. more than Yoshi's New Island, more than Yoshi's Island BS. there aren't really other Nintendo platformers like this as we've really dug into in this conversation. And even though it didn't all pan out That's really cool. L that is really neat to me that they they went for it and they tried something and maybe they build on it, maybe elements of it make its way to other games. So happy they did it, happy it exists. That is Yoshi and the mysterious book out now. I'm going to keep playing it. We'll probably talk about it more in the coming weeks on NBC, But right now I want to remind you that IG and Live twenty twenty six is right around the corner. The two day celebration of gaming and entertainment will take place june sixth and seventh in downtown Los Angeles and be filled with celebrity panels Exclusive game reveals, live stage shows, including Nintendo Voice chat, giveaways, and much more. And since you're all such great super Nintfndos, you can get a free ticket by heading to IGn dot com slash live and using the promo code NVC. We hope to see you there. We're gonna need great Nintendo fans in the audience for the game that I am cooking up for everyone to play.'s going be Very, very fun. Can't wait twow weeks w Wonder where Tropicana got its name. Troics And every time you enjoy a glass, you're not just drinking juice. you're taking a trip Stepping into sunshine and embarking on a flavorful journey into the tropics where ripe fruit is crafted into wildly delicious juice. And the best part, no passport required Trawacanna, give life some juice Well, one week away is the next game release from Nintendo. And that is called Pko Nico. It's a new game that Nintendo says lets you have fun with your photos available for smart devices on may twenty eighth. So this is a smartphone game coming to Android and IOS next week. It is free to start, but you can only try like three or four of the games for free. thenen you have to buy volumes of mini games up to eighty in total with real world money, like in game purchases. And guys, it's W you aware, but with your photos. L this is micro games. Nick, what do you think of this weird thing they announced Hey, what when Warrio wears out, I need I need to play. I need well, like the first thing that stood out to me when I saw this I was like, wait why does all the font look like Rhythm Heaven? And so that was like the thing that triggered me is like, oh, that means this game's going to be good because I just associate anything SP group with just good gameplay first and foremost. they worked on Warrioware as well as all the rhythm heaven games. And I don't know, this just seems like a good fit It's very much like the picno chat returns to some extent. What was the face Raiders? Was that the three it's evoking something like that and I just seems like a good time. I will check out the trial and honestly with my friend group, I could see us all picking up this game and just Kind of being weird with it and having a good time. This looks like a good fit for a Nintendo mobile game Yeah absolutely. It's also it's co deeveloped by intelligence systems. They at the very bottom of the trailer, we see that and they they help make the Wariorware series as well. So this is the Warriorware team for all extents and purposes, but they know no War insight. This is a new series technically pictedo Nico. And yeah, I think that Somebody at Nintendo just had an idea and it needed a touchscreen and a camera. and yeah, the Switch two has a camera. So I'm a little surprised that this game is not on Switch two, especially given Nintendo's kind of been moving away from mobile games for the last several years. That was a big surprise, but I think this game looks fun. Like I will definitely play this. Tim, what do you think I echo a lot of what y'all are saying. I think the biggest takeaway I have is just how out of nowhere this seems. Like this is not something I would have ever put money on Nintendo doing in twenty twenty six. This feels very ten years ago when they were making a lot of moves into the mobile space the pedigree of the teams working on this and we know how good those games can be and how awesome Warioware is like I get it. This does make sense and this could Good work I don't expect it's going to hit though. Like I do think that this is like a on paper. It's like, oh, this all adds up to a cool product. I don't see this like There's something weird about it to me where it lacks confidence in being a Nintendo product. like it doesn't feel Nintendo outwardly. and I think that that would be the thing that gets normies with their mobile phones into playing a game like this. like That weirdness I said this earlier about the Nintendo quality and my expectations of their beat tier. This is even further than that where I'm just like there's something about like if Nintendo says this is a Nintendo game Even the general public's like, okay, I know what that means. This just seems like a weird game, you know, like I think without that Nintendo branding first and foremost, like the Wario name even, I think, would do that. It would show a level of confidence in in the game that I think this is kind of just like a fun experiment that they'll see but I don't think ultimately it will move any needles What is it for you? because I'm watching like these people's friends dressed up as a baby, like like in a lollipop or unwrapping a mummy and then they they dance afterwards is very Nintendo, very warriorware, very rhythm heaven.ike I mean, is somebody who follows this stuff every single of my life. It's very clearly to me a Nintendo product. So is it just a lack of a recognizable character to you? Yeah. and again, to me it is as well. like I want to be clear. I'm to the audience that this game is is looking for I don't think this game's looking for the uses of the world. If it was, it would straight up be Warrioware because we know Aioware and that means a seal of approval. This is like, hey, let's get the people that might not know. And yeah, like looking at the genie there. That doesn't read Nintendo to me, that reads Flash Game on the Internet, two thousand four. Welcome back Aater Eact that is it's acated. But I think it's going to be good. I think it's going to be goofy and fun Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Tom where you at on this? Well, it's like it's basically just like a gamified TikTok filter or like Instagram filter is like what they're trying to do, right? is like They see people really into face filters and they said, what if we just made a game that's instant like short face filter games and that makes sense. I don't know. I'm not going to play it. I'm old, but like it looks cute. It looks fun. I This is very jaded of me, but I have like very few opinions about this. That's fine. That's a bizarre thing. I'm just like sure, cool. That's fine. You know at a t' point.be maybe people will be able to tell it's a Nintendo game if you can't screenshot whatever you can. Yeah right. Well, it's interesting. It says you can save the outcomes you've discovered as images or videos and share them with friends and family. Gness. So you can do that. How very Nintendo like I know, right? Yeah, we just saw Tomodachi live didn't let you do that really at all But this one with real photos does, but I mean, it's not like Tomadacci life. You can't make them say or do whatever it's going to be So I think this looks funine. I think it's quirky. I totally agree with Tim. This feels like something they would have announced in twenty sixteen when it was like Mario Run and M Tomo and all these things coming out. But yeah, it's an interesting product to see them return to the mobile space, we do know they left because they were uncomfortable with how money grabby mobile games just kind of need to be to be huge hits. likeike the key example, Mario Kart tour which had lots of predatory microransactions and Nintendo pushed back against their development partner and said, hey, can we like slow this up a bit? And eventually they gave in and did. And then that game kind of tanked and didn't make much money. But this is not like that. This is like going to be a few time purchases to unlock the mini games and then it's permanent. So this I think is a very Nintendo friendly pricing model in the mobile space. It's not like you're going to you can't pour endless money into this game, which is what I think they don't necessarily like. So I think it's going to work. I don't think it's going be a huge hit, but I think the people that play it will probably have a good time with it for a few afternoons It's very strange. It's next week, so we'll talk about it in a couple of weeks. Very bizarre announcement from Nintendo. Last thing before we go, Nick, you went to Japan and that included a trip to the Nintendo Museum. and I want to hear all about it Yeah, no, I got very lucky and I promise I will do my best to not frame this as like, oh I went to Japan and it's the coolest thing ever I mean, the Nintendo Museum was the coolest thing ever, but TLDR The Nintendo Museum is very tricky to get into. It's a little bit it's a fairly recent like new thing, a new addition It's located just outside Kyoto in a small city known as Uji, which Uji apart from the Nintendo Museum is well worth traveling if you just want to go check out a smaller town in Japan. It's a matcha capital of Japan. so there's excellent matcha to be had there. It's a beautiful, idyllic you know, river running through the town, countryside, mountains, gorgeous just it's exactly what you think of when you think of like a picturesque Japanese town. But apart from that, this thing is semi new to the city and just for the chance to even the privilege of paying Nintendo money to go. you have to enter a raffle. So I entered the raffle along with my girlfriend and I was denied, but she got the approval to She got the privilege of paying Nintendo money for two tickets. So she paid to get us both tickets and we headed there. and Tyo, I have the B roll up right there. If you can pull a picture one, this is outside the Nintendo Museum as you're kind of entering in. They have like a lot of picturesque moments where you can take photos and very cute, very Instagram bay U you can kind of go through the pictures, Tyo. I think just kind of scrub through them and we can Kind of talk about it. and granted, this is not going to be gigantic spoilers for the museum. Nintendo is very good about you cannot film in these parts of the museum. These areas you are allowed to film in, things of that nature, which I appreciate. otherwise you kind of see it, you've been there, done that kind of thing. So I can kind of understand that from an attraction perspective. Right at the entrance of the museum, they have a cute little doodle from Miyamoto of Mario, very very cute. That'sable. That's great. K kind of cycle through some of the photos. And then one of the things that they have th that is truly interesting is that they have a series of interactable like demo stations Every ticket comes included with you get like ten digital coins that are all thrown on this little passport card that you get that you can pay at different attractions, these things. So they make it they design in a way where you can experience everything in the museum all at once, which looks like Pqu Donico Exactly, right. That's exactly it. But one thing that really just stood out to me is how clever a lot of the attractions are They were genuinely fun. you know, they have some rooms dedicated to like NSO style like retro games where you could just use your digital currency to play games. but the stuff that has my attention is these weird one off things like they have the love Tester, which is a toyesque, you know PlayStation toy esque experience where you and your partner get matched up and you show your love ranking right at the top And then it's going to be a bad score front and so in The goal of the game is to improve your love score over a series of different mini games. We kind of saw a little bit of them where we were dressed up as cats trying to swipe away mice from cheese. Just very silly, cute ute little i tooy esque mini games that feel straight out of two thousand six. But one of the things that I think was probably my favorite exhibits and if you've been to the Nintendo parks at like Universal Studios, there's like the seecret Bowser Junior shhooting gallery. This arcade has its own shooting gallery where you are competing with a bunch of other people too bas T try to rack up a high score, but you can choose either a superscope or a zapper. Aesome. And this is like it's a delightful touch that like The coolest thing I have to say about the Nintendo Museum is its presentation overall. It is a snapshot of Nintendo's history, kind of outlined in an elegant timeline fashion where this whole shooting gallery that you're seeing here is at the very tail end of this history of shooting galleries that Nintendo kind of manifested. know in Japan, they had laser ar shooting gallery arcades that would be just Almost like clay pigeons that you would shoot at, but just all laser and was just indoor arcade stuff. that was like, I didn't I didn't know this stuff existed and it all culminates with here's what the fully realized vision of what we were hoping to do with that kind of shooting galleries. And here's me getting second place. the dude next to me was cracked at that game. He had to have been there a couple times. I'm just saying, I got to defend myself U But one thing that like apart from the layout and the presentation of this all is The way Nintendo adapts a lot of its games and its experiences to Have it be more of a communal experience? Tyo, if you go forward, there's a giant There's giant controlers that are set up throughout the like arcade area and they have an NES remix style approach to how they do these demo stations. whereas if you can see the Super Mario sixty four clip, there's a timer in the upper left corner. There's three missions you can do with your co op partner. And if you beat the mission, you get to move on to the next mission with a little bit of a bump in the timer. so everyone They messed up as far as I'm aware. Everyone just went straight to Bowser and tried to complete and beat Bowser, but not a lot of people could do it because they didn't really get the opportunity. One person is controlling the N sixty four joyick and the other person is your dedicated jump button, which is really difficult to do. likeike everyone could beat Bowser, but no one's ever had to do it with two people before. And I just think it's such a clever use of like Making nostalgia fun for anyone of all ages and for people who may not know what an N sixty four was, this is a great, you know, introductory lesson to it. So if nothing else, the TLDR Nintendo Museum, it is that Nintendo level of whimsy that you would expect from a dedicated exhibit for someone to pay it's like twenty bucks It's not too bad altogether. They have a bunch of different activities. Ohh yeah, they got the ultra handand experience. Ultra handand is awesome. wayay more difficult to control than you think it is. Okay. but I guess if nothing else, well worth doing if you ever find yourself with the privilege of paying Nintendo twenty dollars to actually get into the museum, well worth doing, they have fun activities for everyone like We did a Hana Fuda making class so we got to make our own Hana Fuda cards. Check out the demo. Last thing I'll say about the Nintendo Museum is the areas that we couldn't film is basically just a gallery dedicated to every single platform, every single console Nintendo made, along with a bunch of rare memorabilia surrounding it. know everyvery single game for that console laid out elegantly in these beautiful glass displays that you would kind of envision what the Nintendo Museum would be. It is very interesting that they don't let you film that you know My girlfriend, she asked me, she goes, Was that part cool for you? Like the actual museum portion where you get, Ohh, yeah, this is it. Miamota is allowed to film there. so it's She was like, was that exciting for you? Because she's like, well, you know a lot of this stuff already, right? And I was like, Yeahah, but I'm like a weirdo, right? Like I already know this stuff, but for people who don't, like I could see this being just like Mind blown, like just a beautiful exploration of childhood and, you know, families like going to their, oh, you know, when I was your age, this is what I played. like it is ripe territory for that. And the one thing that they don't let you film that you have to buy a dedicated magazine for that I did buy because I'm a sucker is there is an area dedicated in a museum for prototypes consoles and peripherals And so they have different iterations of the Nintendo D they aren't even labeled. You just kind of have to intuit that like, yeah, that kind of looks like a DS. And there's different iterations of the Wi U, the DS, the three Ds and even the Nintendo Switch and just really cool to see that. and I'll have to bring my magazine to get that scan for for Logan to take a look at because I think he'd get a kick out of it. but All in all, while worthre checking out, it's great excuse to get out of the normal touristy areas that people typically go to when they go to Japan because it is, I would argue an off unexplored part of Tokyo or I'm sorry, Kyoto that people aren't aware that exists and I think that the Nintendo Museum opening up shines a spotlight in this city that is very cool for the city in terms of like tourism because Excellent food. Excellent green tea, and you get Nintendo museum. what more could you ask for Yeah, and it's built on the site of one of Nintendo's original factories, which is very cool also that they repurposed it for that. So that's awesome. Nick, you werere also my hero and you went to the gift shop and you bought me the Wi U mug that I have wanted so Thank you so much right here for you. When you're in town for IG and Live, I look forward to You know, it's always a responsibility of bringing a breakable mug in your luggage. It' like, well, I know, it's a big task. I feel b asking, but you did it. I't you, man And I told you I wanted the W U one and you texted me like, Are you sure you want the W U one? Absolutely. Even my gfriend was like, that's the one he wants. light blue light blue cup that says W of like, all right, that's what he wants. Y. Yeah Lan so much Logan gets. That is amazing and that looked like a really, really cool trip. We do gott a run. That is another episode of Nintendo Voice Chat in the books. We are here every Friday with audio on your favorite podcast app, a video on Spotify and the IGN games channel on YouTube. Ne week, we are talking Nina the Hoower. I can't wait. It's gonna be a really, really fun show. So come on back for that. And we should be up a couple days early next week. So look out on YouTube and Spotify a little earlier than normal. Thank you so much, Tom and Nick and Tim. thanks so much for coming back to NVC. It was a blast to have you. Thank you so much for having me and I love All of you, I love Nintendo. I love being here Any anything you wanna plug, what's going on over at kind of Fny? Nothing interesting. But you can check it out at YouTube dot com slash kind of fununny games. If you like this type of conversation, we do it too Yeah, every day. you can get it every day over there We just once a week. So thanks so much, Tim. It was a blast having you. comeome back anytime. and thank you so much to Tyo for working behind the scenes and thank you for listening. But for now that is all time I've got. I got to get back to playing Animal Crossing New Laf on my Nintendo threety S. Have a great week. We'll be back next time with more Nintendo Voice chat, the only place you can