Reflecting on Longevity and Legacy

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I'm sorry, I must said beyond the blind The behind the music thing that I kind of talked about a bit last week. so I landed on the name of press playay the story of dot dot dot where I'll be able to highlight different artists, even artists that I'm not super familiar with. This week I picked JoJo because I know a lot about JoJo. and I wanted the first episode to be someone I knew, not someone who I was like learning alongside with you guys, the listeners. But I also wanted to say exciting news. There is a nostalgia in now Patreon. and I decided to make two different tiers for now. There's a three dollar tier where you will get episodes early and ad free. And then there's a five dollar tier where you will get episodes early, episodes ad free. You'll also get videos of all of my interviews, so you'll be able to watch those And you'll also get a biwekly episode. What will those episodes be? I'm not one hundred percent sure yet might be a movie review, it may be an episode of One Tree Hill or an episode of the OC or an episode of a show Eventually I would love to do a rewatch series on like a higher tier. But I also know myself and covering the hills was really difficult for me. like talking about the same episode or same series for twenty episodes trying to make it more interesting Granted the hills didn't have like a tongue going on, but I don't think I'll ever do like a full onery Hill rewatch or a full OC rewatch just because I know those shows pretty well. I'd rather do like a full Original nine hundred and two one zo rewatch. I've never seen an episode of the original nine hundred two onez. and I know I know I hear the gasps. I know it's not good But I would rather cover something like that that I'm not super familiar with. And that would probably be like a seven or eight dollars tier. But right now, there's three dollars, five dollars. I hope you guys join and enjoy. If you don't wanna join, also totally fine, completely understand. You will still get your two episodes a week. And yeah, you'll just have to deal with ads. So let's get into JoJo. Let's get into someone who I think is one of the most underrated vocalists of our time. Like I said, I genuinely think that she deserves so much more credit than she gets. And I do think it's because of the contract she signed, which we will get into on this episode. We are doing a deep dive on the JoJo contract as well You're about to get the entire story. And it's not Jo Jo Siwa, okay Don't ever think I'm talking about JoJo S when I'm talking about JoJo But there are certain artists where even if you're not necessarily a huge fan, you still remember exactly where you were when their biggest song came out. You remember hearing them on the radio. You remember watching the music video on MTV before school. You remember downloading the song onto your iPod or maybe illegally downloading it from Limeewire, which Not encouraging because you will get a virus. I don't even know if you can still use Limeewire. But anyway, I'm not gonna to pretend we didn't use it. I'm also always interested in people who were like sued for using Limeewire. I remember someone DMed me years ago that like people knocked on their door and were like, you've been stealing too much music. you owe us ten thousand dollars. So if that's ever happened to you, please let me know. I think that's so crazy. Anyway, back to JoJo. When Leave Get Out came out in two thousand four, JoJo felt like she was everywhere. She had this huge voice She had this confidence that felt so beyond her years. And she had the perfect early two thousands music video where she's basically taking over a school while wearing an outfit that I would absolutely try and recreate at the mall. Also from Massachusetts. So I think that's another reason why I love Jojo so much My friend Dexter and I always joke that she is the Princess Diana from of Massachusetts I don't know if you guys will find that as funny as I do, but anyway, the part of this that feels so crazy is that Jojo was only thirteen years old when all of this was happening. She was not a nineteen year old playing a teenager. She was not someone in her early twenties singing songs that were meant to appeal to a younger audience. She was actually just a kid But when people talk about JoJo now, there's usually a question attached to her name, which is what happened to JoJo? Maybe not so much in twenty twenty six, but I would say even in like twenty twenty four peopleeople would be like, whatever happened to JoeJo? But like she continued to release music. And if you've never listened to her Marvin's Room remix, I want you to stop this podcast right now and listen to it. You just have to listen to it on YouTube, so it's a little annoying. Anyway, Jojo had all the ingredients to become one of the defining pop and R and B artists of her generation. She had the voice, she had the hits, had fan base, she had the charisma. She was selling records at a time when selling records still actually meant something Then after her second album, she seemingly disappeared But Jo Jo didn't disappear because she stopped wanting to make music. She did not disappear because people stopped caring about her. She did not disappear because she suddenly lost her voice or ran out of things to say. She spent years trying to release music The problem was that she had signed a contract when she was twelve years old And that contract would eventually leave her trapped in one of the most frustrating label battles of the two thousands. So like I mentioned today, we're going to go through the story of Jojo. We're talking about her childhood, her early success, Lave get out little too late Her acting career, the contract that stalled her career for years, the music that she continued making while she was stuck in label limbo. Her decision to rerecord her early albums before rerecordings became a huge mainstream conversation and the way she's continued to rebuild her career in her own terms, because the story of Jojo is not really the story of a pop star who disappeared. It's the story of an artist who had to fight to use her own voice again. And I am also going to link the Nostalgia and now Spotify playlist and all of her rerecordings are going to be on that playlist, highly recommend you listen to her rereordings just so she can receive money from the streams rather than the asshole who put her in a shitty contract when she was twelve years old. And before people are like, well, where were her parents when signing the contract? I get it. you could blame her mom, whatever. But I think at the end of the day, a lot of people will get a contract in front of them and just sign it. They talked about that a lot on the Hollywood Dmons' episode of Sixteen Imregnant Where these sixteen year olds would read through and the mom would be like, justust sign it, We need the money. And I wonder if that's how JoJo's mom felt about it because she did we're about to talk about her childhood, but she didn't grow up with a lot. So JoJo was born, Joan An Noell Leavek in december, nineteen ninety. And she was actually born in Vermont but raised in Massachusetts, which I'm mentioning again because I will always support a Massachusetts pop star That's simply how I was raised. okay, I'm very loyal to the people I root for, if you can't tell. Anyway, JoJo grew up around music. Her mom had a musical background, and JoJo started singing when she was extremely young. And this was not a situation where someone randomly heard her sing karaoke at a birthday party and decided to turn her into a pop star overnight She was performing from the time she was a little kid. She actually appeared on television when she was young, including Kids Say the Darnest Things and America's Most Talented Kids. Even at that age, it was obvious that she had a voice that did not sound like it belonged to a child. And I think that's one of the most interesting things about watching old Jojo Clips now. She was not just like a cute little kid She was not just impressive for her age. She could actually fucking belt. Like you know how you watch Clips of singers who are popular now and you're like, oh, I hear something. If you're to watch clips of Jo Joe singing when she's like five, you're like, How is that voice coming out of a five year old And again, there are so many child stars where you can see potential, but you can also hear that they're still learning. But with Jojo, the voice was already there So by the time she was around twelve, she had already been approached about music opportunities, and eventually she signed with Background Records and Du Family Entertainment. And that was created by Barry Hankerson. and I also want to apologize. it's called Background, not background, which I said earlier. The label had a significant history in RMB, and it was most famously associated with Alia, who was Barry's niece. And the label also worked with artists including Timberin and Tony Braxton. So from the outside, it's not difficult to understand why a young artist in her family would believe that this is an exciting opportunity You know, Jo Jo later explained that she and her mother felt comfortable with the label because the people around them made the situation feel like family. And she was a kid and her mother was trying to protect her. They were entering an industry that neither of them fully understood And it's important to keep in mind as we get deeper into the contract story. againg, it's very easy to look back and say, why would anyone sign that deal? But Jojo was twelve. She was not sitting in a conference room with decades of industry experience and a team of lawyers she had personally selected. She was a child being told that her dreams were about to come true And in an interview years later, Jojo said that she believed she would be able to release an album every year or two. So at that age, a long record deal did not necessarily sound crazy. It sounded like stability. It sounded like she was going to get to keep making music and have a giant career. So I completely understand how people sign bad contracts or why they do, honestly. So as I mentioned earlier, Jojo's debut single Lave Get Out was released in two thousand four And it's hard to overstate how perfect the song was for that exact moment in pop culture The early two thousands were filled with music about relationships that felt dramatic. Even when people singing the songs were teenagers, you could be thirteen years old, never been on an actual date, and it still felt like you had personally survived a devastating breakup because Jojo told someone to leave That was the power of JoJo But what makes the song even more interesting is that Jojo said she did not initially connect with it at all She was extremely young when she recorded the song. The lyrics were about a boy treating her badly, and Jojo was just a sixth grader at the time. But she was more comfortable with R and B and hip hop than a pop direction for the single She said that she actually cried when she was told Lave Get out would be the first single, which is wild to think about now because the song became her breakthrough hit topped Billboard's mainstream top forty chart making Jojo the youngest solo artist to ever reach number one on the chart, It also became a top twenty hit on the Billboard Hot one hundred And the song didn't feel like a novelty hit Jojo did not seem like a kid performing at a talent show. She seemed like a real pop star. And again, as I mentioned earlier The music video was perfect. It was set in school. Jojo looked cool without appearing like a label was trying to make her seem twenty five The song was catchy enough for pop radio, but still gave her space to show off her voice. It also gave an entire generation one of the most satisfying opening lines in pop music history. When you hear the first few seconds of the song, you already know exactly what is about to happen. I wish I could play the song and not get in trouble. I think I could maybe play a little bit of it, but I also played so much Laguna Beach copywritten audio in the early part of this podcast that I don't want to risk it anymore I don't want whatever happened to people who used Limeewire. I don't need like someone from Paramount knocking on my door being like, did you put a lot of our audio in an episode and you weren't allowed to do so? I'd be like, yes, I did. and I apologize. Back to JoJo. JoJo's self title album was released in June of two thousand four. In the album debuted in the top five of the Billboard two hundred It was later certified platinum It blended pop and R and B in a way that made sense for Jojo because she was able to appeal to a young audience without sounding like her voice had been watered down The follow up single Baby It's You also performed really well And the album gave her more space to show what she could actually do vocally. Jojo was not just someone who happened to land on one great pop song, she had the ability to sing songs that required real control, range, and an actual point of view. The album also included a cover of SWV's Week, which was a bold choice for someone that young. That's not exactly a song you cover if you're trying to hide your vocals But by the end of this first era of JoJo, she had established herself as more than a child star. She was a legitimate recording artist. And this is where I wanted to push because it's so easy to flatten the story when we know what happens later It's easy to think of Jojo's career as one giant like cautionary tale about the music industry, but before things became so complicated Jojo was having real success Her debut was not a flop that caused a label to lose interest. She did not vanish because her first single failed. She did not struggle to connect with an audience. She connected immediately And after the success of her first album, Jojo continued to release music, but she was also becoming an actress. She appeared in Aqua Marine in two thousand six alongside Emma Roberts and Sarah Paxton, A movie I have never seen. And maybe that would be something I'd like cover over on Patreon. Never seen Aqua Marine I love Jo Jo Down. I think Emma Roberts is one of the funniest bitches on the planet And I don't think she's kind. When I say bitch, I mean like truly, she is one, but I respect it. So yeah, like I would cover that over on Nostalgia and now's Patreon. Even though I've never seen the movie, I know it's like deeply important to like sleep over culture and it belongs to a specific category of two thousands movies that you could watch repeatedly without even needing a reason. L you didn't have to plan to watch Aquam Marine. Aquam Marine A sorry it's so hard for me to say, Aqua Marine simply appeared in your life when you needed it. Unfortunately, never appeared in my life because again, at thirteen, I was watching thirteen. And I think that's why I never saw like the Lizzie MagGuire movie or any of those movies. I'm like, no, I'm watching movies like thirteen now and I cannot backslide into fun I need to focus on the road ahead of film. I don't know Anyway Jojo also appeared in RV alongside Robin Williams. So by two thousand six, she was balancing music, movies, touring, interviews in the normal chaos that comes with being famous before you're old enough to drive. But Jojo has also spoken honestly about the emotional cost of becoming famous so young In her memoir Over The Influence, she writes about child stardom, her family history, addiction, body image, and the pressure to trust people even when your own instincts were telling her something was wrong And I think the key to understanding Jojo's story is that fame arrived before she had any real chance to figure out who she was She was being told what songs to sing, how to present herself opportunities to accept and what type of artist she should become while she was still growing up And again, JoJo later described Ch's stardom as dangerous to a young person's sense of self because you don't know who you are yet and people around you start telling you who you are supposed to be. Now that doesn't mean that she regrets every part of her early career, but it does mean that the experience was complicated, and it is possible to celebrate a thirteen year old's talent also acknowledging that no thirteen year old should be responsible for keeping an entire career machine running. So Jojo released her second album The High Road in two thousand six And the album debuted at number three on the Billboard two hundred. Its biggest single was Too Little Too Late and Too Little Too Late is one of those songs where the second it starts, you are transported back to a very specific era in like time. So when this album came out, it's when I was cleaning banks with my mom and I had this on repeat, I would be blasting this album while scrubbing. counters and surfaces and mopping floors at banks after hours. It was just so good. If you haven't listened to this album in a while, I highly, highly recommend you check it out. Before I continue, I just have to pause and say Coming for you by Jojo, in my opinion is one of the best pop songs of all time. It is so good and it's one of those movies or songs, I'm sorry that you could put like a fan video behind, which I always love If you have a song that I can put like one of my favorite teen drama couples behind, I'm gonna love you forever That's a different song. That's by Jessica Simpson, but coming for you by Jojo is just so good. So toooo littleittle toooo late became Jojo's biggest hit on the Billboard Hot one hundred, reaching the top five. And I think the song has aged incredibly well because it's not just a nostalgic song, it's still a great pop song. There is a reason people continue returning to it The buildup works, the chorus works, the vocal works. it captures a moment where somebody wants to come back after they've already exhausted every opportunity that you gave them, and the Highroad continued establishing Jojo as an artist with staying power. This was not just a second album release to capitalize on one successful song. it showed that she could mature without completely abandoning the audience that grew up with her. So by this point, Jojo had already done something most artists spend years trying to accomplish She had a pllatinum debut album had a gold second album had multiple major hits, had acted in studio movies, she had proven that she could sing live, She had a fan base that wanted to grow with her. So the next step should have been obvious. She should have released a third album, but that's not what happened, okay? After the highroad, Jojo began working on new music, and she was not taking a break because she was tired of singing. She was not stepping away from the industry. She was writing, recording, and trying to move into the next phase of her career, But her label situation had become increasingly unstable To understand why this was such a major problem, we need to talk about distribution. and this is from Variety, what I'm about to read. A record label can sign an artist and oversee their music, but it still needs a way to properly distribute that music. The distribution relationship helps get an album into the world. It affects how the music is released, marketed, promoted, and made available to listeners So Blackground, which I think I called backackground earlier, I'm really sorry, but Blackground's distribution situation changed over the years. And by two thousand nine, Jojo said she was waiting for her label to secure a distribution deal so that her third album could actually be released. And this is where her career entered a brutal cycle She's making music, she wants to release the music. herer fans wanted the music, but she couldn't simply walk away and take the album somewhere else. She was still under contract So in two thousand nine, Jojo filed a lawsuit against Blackground Records and D Family Entertainment She alleged that the label had put her in musical limbo by failing to secure distribution for her album A deal was later reached and the expectation was that her third album would be distributed through Interscope For a moment, it seemed like the situation might finally move forward, but the album never arrived And this is the point where Jojo's story becomes especially frustrating because the problem was not a lack of material Jojo has talked about recording and submitting music during this period. She was working. She was trying to adapt. She was trying to find a way through a situation she had entered when she was a child, but year after year passed without an official third studio album Her second album had come out in two thousand six, and her next official studio album would not arrive until twenty sixteen. That's a full decade later. pop music a decade is enormous. Think about how much changed between two thousand six and twenty sixteen. In twenty sixteen, we're still living in a world shaped by MTV, physical album sales, radio, MySpace, in the earliest years of YouTube. And by twenty sixteen, streaming had completely changed the industry Social media had changed how artists promoted themselves. The sound of pop music had changed, the way fans discovered artists had changed, and Jojo had lost years that should have been spent building on her early momentum That doesn't mean she stopped being talented, but the industry doesn't pause for anyone So this is the part I really want to spend time on because I think people understand the general idea that Jojo had a bad record deal, but the details make the situation so much worse Jojo signed a seven album deal when she was twelve years old, seeven albums. To be clear, long record deals are not unheard of in the music industry. The problem was not simply the number seven. The problem was the imbalance of power So Jojo believed she would be able to release albums regularly. In her mind, a seven album contract did not necessarily mean she would be trapped for the rest of her youth. It meant she would get to keep making music. She later said that she was assured the deal was normal and that she would be protected. But a contract built around albums becomes extremely difficult when the label is not releasing the albums, because Jojo could not complete the deal if the label would not put out her music. But at the same time, she could not simply sign with another company and start fresh. So she was stuck between the label that was not moving her career forward and contract that prevented her from fully moving forward without them. In a GQ interview years later, Jojo explained the emotional reality of the situation pretty clearly. She said, I just wanted to have a career. And that's what makes the story so upsetting. She was not demanding complete control over every element of the industry at eighteen years old. She was asking to work. She was asking to sing She was asking to release the music that she had spent years creating She had said that the label did not have the ability to properly distribute her music anymore. She has also described losing opportunities because approvals were not being granted for certain performances or collaborations. So the damage was not limited to one delayed album, a pop career is built through momentum It's built through releasing music, appearing on television, collaborating with other artists, touring, performing, and remaining part of a larger cultural conversation. If each of those opportunities become harder to pursue, an artist can become invisible to the general public even while they're constantly working behind the scenes And that is essentially what happened to JoJo. To the average listener, it looked like she had disappeared. From Jojo's perspective, she spent years trying to escape a situation that would not allow her to properly continue her career And I do want to be careful here because Jojo has spoken about the people involved with more nuance than you'd expect. She's acknowledged that she once viewed some of the executives around her as family. and these people she trusted when she was extremely young And to me, that makes it sadder, not like more simple, because it's not just a business relationship breaking down. It was a young person realizing that adults who once made her feel safe couldn't give her the future that she had been promised. And I'm not saying that we need to get rid of like child stars or singers, actors, whatever. I just think we need to find something like safer for them because you hear this story time and time again. I trusted this person when I was twelve, and then by the time I turned fifteen, I realized I was being taken advantage of. Like this is a story that is so repeated and it's not always a bad contract like Jojo signed It could be you're on a television show and you have to do certain things with a producer in order to get more lines. like, unfortunately, this is a what tale is oldest time. This is a tale is oldest time And I just think there needs to be a safer way for young people to be in Hollywood, where they're not just chewed up and spat out. So even while JoJo was dealing with the label battle, she continued making music. In twenty ten, she released the mix tape, Can't take that away from me. Then in twenty twelve, she released Agape, and these projects matter because they show that JoJo was still evolving as an artist, even when the traditional industry path had been blocked She wasn't stuck in two thousand six. She was not trying to recreate Lave get out over and over and over again. She was experimenting. She was growing. She was using the limited options available to her to remind people that she still had something to say. She also released songs including Disaster A plus. If you haven't listened to Disaster in a while, revisit that one and Demonstrate, which gave fans glimpses of the directions that she wanted to pursue. And there was also a hashtag free Jojo movement And it became a real big part of her story. Fans understood the lack of an album was not simply a creative decision. They knew something was wrong. and I think that fan loyalty is one of the reasons Jojo's comeback was possible A decade is a long time to wait for an album, but people did They continued listening, they continued talking about her, they continued rooting for her. and they understood that JoJo hadn't abandoned them. I mean, I listened to all of her mixtapes. I continued to follow her on social media. Like I was definitely a part of the free JoJo movement because I think well, you can never shake me of this belief I think if JoJo hadn't been in that contract and they weren't able to distribute her music, if she had everything perfectly like squared away, she would be one of the biggest artists of all time. Her voice is so good. herer stage presence is so crazy and I think she would be right up there. I'm not going to say like a Brittany, but I'll say like I don't know, like a Kelly Clarkson Maybe Maybe I'll say like a Kelly Clarks, and I think that that's pretty fair. So we're not done with the contract stuff, by the way. By twenty thirteen, JoJo was ready to take legal action again. She filed a lawsuit against Blackground records and the familyamily records seeking a legal declaration that her contract had expired. Her argument centered on the fact that she had signed the agreement as a minor. Jojo argued that under New York law, she could not be held to the contract beyond seven years, because she and her parents had signed the record deal in two thousand four when she was twelve. She argued that the agreement should have expired in twenty eleven And this is not simply an artist saying I don't like my label anymore. She was arguing that the legal window had already closed. By the time she filed the lawsuit in twenty thirteen, she had already spent years trying to release a third album The case was ultimately resolved outside the court and by early twenty fourteen, Jojo had finally been released from the contract. She then signed with Atlantic Records, and I wish I could say that everything immediately became easy at that point forward, but of course it didn't. Because once you lose years, decade of momentum, you have to rebuild. You have to reintroduce yourself to an audience that remembers your biggest hits, but may not understand what happened behind the scenes. You have to compete in a completely different version of the industry And you have to figure out who you are as an adult artist when the public still associates you with songs you released as a teenager, and you have to process the emotional impact of spending years fighting for the right to do the thing you were really good at, but at least Jojo was free And after leaving Blackground, JoJo slowly began rebuilding. In twenty fourteen, she released the EP hashtag Love Joe In twenty fourteen, she released three singles together as a project she called Trangle The songs were When Love hurts, Save My soul and say love. And I actually think releasing three songs at once made sense for JoJo. After spending so many years unable to officially release a new studio album, one song almost would not have felt like enough The triingle gave people different sides of her voice and it showed that she was not trying to pretend the last years never happened. She was stepping back into the industry as an adult And then in twenty sixteen, Jojo finally released Mad Love. And this was her first official studio album in ten years, ten years after the Hroad. Mad Love debuted in the top ten of the Billboard two hundred, and that matters because it showed that Jojo still had an audience. peopleeople hadn't forgotten about her. And the album included songs like Fuck Apologies featuring Wiz Khalifa in Mad Love. But I think the real achievement was the album itself Jojo had spent most of her adulthood fighting to release music and mad loveve was proof That she made it throughr. And at the end of this episode, I'm just gonna put like my top ten Jojo songs and they'll also be in the nostalgia and now Spotify playlist if you guys want to check it out The only song that won't be on there is her Marvin's Room cover because she can't get like the rights from Drake, so it has to live on YouTube. But please please, please check that out. Now one of the most fascinating parts of JoJo's career happened in twenty eighteen. Her early albums were not properly available on streaming services, and for an artist whose earliest music meant so much to the fans, that was a major problem Streaming had become the primary way people listen to music. A new generation could discover almost any album instantly But Jojo's biggest early releases were difficult to access legally in places where people were now listening. So she decided to rerecord her first two albums In twenty eighteen, she released new versions of JoJo and The Highrooad, along with rerecorded versions of Disaster and Demonstrate And I think this is an incredibly important part of her legacy because years before Taylor Swift's re reccording project became one of the biggest music industry stories in the world, JoJo had already found her own way to reclaim part of her catalogue The circumstances weren't identical, but the larger question was similar. What can an artist do when the music that built their career is no longer fully in their control Jojo couldn't go back and undo the original deal. She could not give herself the version of the early two thousands that she should have had, but she could give fans a way to listen to those songs while supporting her current work There's also something emotional about hearing her adult voice singing these songs. Let's be real. She sounds so good singing these songs and the songs are familiar, but they sound different because she's different. She's not trying to pretend like she's thirteen anymore She's reclaiming the songs as the person that she became. So Jojo continued building a career that gave her more control. She actually launched Clover music and later released Good to Kn in twenty twenty Good to know leaned more fully into R and B and showed Jojo as an adult artist who no longer needed to fit into the version of pop stardom people had imagined for her when she was a teenager The album debuted at number one on Billboard's R and B charts, and she also released a holiday album, December Baby in twenty twenty and the project Trying Not to Think about it in twenty twenty one And this is where I think Jojo's story becomes less about a traditional comeback and more about longevity A comeback, you know, it usually implies that someone returns to the exact level of mainstream fame they once had, but I'm not exactly sure that's the only measure that matters. Jojo built a career after the industry made it incredibly difficult for her to have one. She kept releasing music, she toured, she created an imprint that allowed her to have more ownership She continued evolving vocally She worked with PJ Morton on SisO, a collaboration that won the Grammy for B R and B song And she found a way to move through the industry without allowing her earliest hits to become the only thing that she has to offer. So in twenty twenty three, JoJo made her Broadway debut in Mouulan Rouge The musical. And honestly, Broadway makes complete sense for JoJo. I actually had the chance to see her perform and she was absolutely incredible. She like outsang the entire not the entire c ' Erin Tivt was in it as well. But those two together, I need them in like a rom comom stat, please. a musical romcom with those two as leads. Anyway, she's always said that she had the type of voice that felt built for a live setting and she can actually sing, like I mentioned, she can perform. She spent years developing the control needed to sustain a career beyond a recording studio. And she returned to the role again in twenty twenty four. And then in September of twenty twenty four, Jojo released her memoir overver the Influence And the book became a New York Times bestseller. and I think the memoir is one of the most important additions to JoJo's story because it gives her a chance to explain what was happening behind the scenes during her younger musical career. you know, everything we just talked about. She was finally able to talk about it So for years, the public version of the story was extremely simple Jojo became famous at thirteen, She released Leave Getut. She followed it with too littleittle too late, then she disappeared Eventually, people learned that there had been a label battle, but even that version of the story only explains part of what happened Over the influence is not just a book about a bad record contract though It's a book about what happens when a child becomes successful before she had the chance to figure out who she is without an audience And JoJo wrote the book herself without a ghost writer. and I think that's really important because so much of JoJo's career was shaped by other people telling her what to do. Other people selected the songs. otherther people decided how she would be marketed otherther people controlled when she could release music Other people held the power to delay her career So there was something very meaningful about JoJo sitting down as an adult and deciding that she was going to tell her story in her own words. And she had explained that writing the book forced her to revisit stories she had kept to herself for years, sometimes because she felt ashamed, and sometimes because she had protecting other people She did not write the memoir to be salacious. She didn't name every person involved in every story. but She was honest about the patterns that shaped her life And one of the biggest themes in the book is addiction And Jo Jo writes about growing up with parents who struggled with addiction and depression Her mother and father actually met in AA, and as a child, Jojo saw the instability and pain that addiction could cause, and she understood the damage it could do to a family But she also writes about eventually recognizing some of those patterns in herself She has spoken about using alcohol and other substances as she got older, particularly during a period when she felt lost and frustrated by the whole label situation. And I think that's an important distinction to make. The contract battle was not simply like a professional thing This was not just a delayed album sitting on a hard drive somewhere. Jojo had already experienced a level of fame that most people will never understand, and then she was forced to watch her career stall while other artists continued moving forward She's talked about not feeling like she could fully process what happened because she was constantly trying to escape it. In the memoir, she's honest about the ways that she tried to numb herself. She's also honest about the complicated feelings that came with watching other young artists succeed, while she remained trapped. One of the stories that received attention after the book came out involves her friendship with Selena Gomez. So JoJo wrote about meeting Selena through their mutual friend, Frana Reza during a period where JoJo was struggling Professionally and Fancia is the one who gave Selena the kidney, and that's a whole not drama that we could talk about, but it's not for right now. So she appreciated being around someone who understood what it was like to start working in the industry at such a young age, but she also admits that the friendship brought up many difficult feelings. Selena's career continued to grow while Jojo felt like her own career had been frozen in place And at one point Jo Jo attended a Valentine's Day party at Taylor Swift's house with Selena And instead of simply enjoying the experience, JoJo remembers feeling like people were looking at her with pity because of whatever was happening with her label. And whether or not anyone else in the room actually felt that way, the story says so much about where JoJo was emotionally at that time, you know, She had already been famous, she had already sold records, she had proven that she could sing, but she was watching the industry continue without her And she felt embarrassed by the situation she didn't create. The memoir also goes deeper into body image pressure that Jojo experienced as a young artist. She has explained that when you start working as a child, you can begin to see yourself in your body as a commodity. Your appearance becomes a part of the job and your body becomes something other people want to comment on. So you start absorbing the idea that changing yourself might be the price of keeping your career And that is such a heavy burden to place on anyone, let alone a twelve year old Jojo also wrote openly about relationships, heartbreak and the ways that her own pain affected other people She didn't present herself as a perfect victim in every situation. She has spoken about being on both sides of infidelity and having to acknowledge the way that she has hurt people while she was struggling. And I think that honesty is what makes the memoir feel less polished It's less of like a polished celebrity story and more of an actual reflection. And it would be very easy for JoJo to write a book where every problem in her life was someone else's fault. And to be clear, there were adults that failed her. A twelve year old should never have been responsible for understanding the long term consequence of a seven album record deal book JoJo' willing to look at what happened after that She talks about ways she coped, she talks about mistakes that she made. She talks about the work it took to rebuild her relationship with herself and talks about learning that survival is not the same as healing, which is so important Just because you're surviving something doesn't mean you're actually healing. Remember that. If you remember one thing from this episode, remember that The title over the influence works on multiple levels too. It's obviously connected to addiction, but it's also about the influence the industry had over her The influence that fame had over her, the influence other people's opinions had over her the influence that fear had over her, and the influence of constantly being told that someone else knew what's best for her. For so much of her early career, Jojo had reason to believe that trusting other people instead of herself was the correct choice And she had talked about the fact that she did not want Lave getet O to be her first single. She didn't relate to the song. She was a sixth grader singing about a relationship that she had never experienced But the adults around her chose that song and it became a massive hit. And Jojo learned an incredibly confusing lesson at an incredibly young age. Maybe other people understood her better than she understood herself Maybe other people's instincts mattered more than her own. Maybe success required her to ignore the voice in her head, telling her that something didn't feel right. And when you carry that lesson forward for years, it can become very difficult to know when to trust yourself again And I think that's what makes the memoir feel like such an important chapter in JoJo's career Again, it's not a victory lap. It's not JoJo saying, look at everything I survived. It's JoJo looking back at the child who signed that contract, The teenager singing songs she didn't understand and the young adult trying to escape a situation that she couldn't control And again, instead of judging those versions of herself, she's trying to understand them She's putting the story back together. She's taking ownership of her choices without taking responsibility for the things that should have never been placed on her shoulders. and she's finally allowing herself to be the person who decides what the Jojo story actually means. And then in twenty twenty five, JoJoe released the EP NGL through Clover Music and BMG. The project continued the version of Jojo's career that feels important now, not a child star recreating the past, not an artist defined by a lawsuit, not a nostalgia act, no shade to nostalgia acts. You guys know I love the Pop two thousands tour But she's now an adult artist making music in her own terms. So Jojo was announced as the next Florence Vassie in the Broadway revival of chess, which would have marked her return to Broadway. But unfortunately, in may twenty twenty six, the production announced that it would close before JoJo's planned run could begin, and she posted about being disappointed because she had been preparing to start rehearsals I do not think that this needs to become a huge part of the story, but it is worth mentioning because Broadway is still clearly part of the direction that she wants to pursue. And you know what? I hope she gets another role soon because her voice belongs on the stage, you know what I'm saying? But before I wrap this up, I want to go through some of the achievements that JoJoe's had Because again, Jojo's story is sometimes discussed so heavily through the lens of the contract that people forget how successful she actually was. You ready Jojo became the youngest solo artist to reach number one on Billboard's mainstream topop forty chart with Lave Get O. Her debut album entered the billboard top two hundred in the top five and was certified pllatinum. The highigh Road debuted at number three on Billboard two hundred and was certified gold Too little too late became a top five hit on the Billboard hot one hundred. Mad Love returned her to the top ten of the Billboard two hundred a full decade after her previous studio album, Good to know reached number one on Billboard's R and B album charts? Say so, her collaboration with PJ Morton won the Grammy for Best RM B song She became a New York Times bestselling author with over the influence She made her Broadway debut as the lead in Moulin Rouge, The musical And this is an impressive career under any circumstances. But when you consider how many years she lost fighting for the ability to release music, it becomes even more impressive, I think And I think Jojo's story is one of the clearest examples of why we need to talk about the machinery behind pop music Because when we were younger, we didn't necessarily think about the contracts, right? We see the music video, we buy the CD, we listen to the song on the radio. We assume that if an artist is talented and successful, they will be able to keep releasing music, but talent isn't always enough Success isn't always enough. Having a fan base is not always enough. Jojo had already proven herself before she was old enough to vote, before she even had her license Then she spent years fighting to continue the career she had already earned. And I think the biggest mistake people make when talking about Jojo is treating the years when she couldn't release an official album as empty years. They weren't empty. She's growing up, she went to school, she was recording, she was fighting, she was releasing mixtapes, she was learning about an industry that she entered as a child She was figuring out how to protect herself and she was trying to preserve the part of herself that loved music before the business side of music made everything more complicated There is a quote from Jojo that I think sums up why people have continued rooting for her So when people tell her they grew up with her, she says, we grew up together. And that feels true. A lot of us first heard JoJo when we were young. We have grown up. She's grown up And the difference is that she had to do it publicly while fighting for ownership of the voice that the world already knew belonged to her So JoJo's story is not a story of someone who's disappeared It's the story of someone who has refused to stay silent. And that's what I have to say about Jojo. some songs I would recommend Coming for you, I know I already mentioned that, her Marvin's room cover.