Future of Pop Culture Nostalgia

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Tune in on TEedTalks Daily, wherever you listen to podcasts ACast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere AS. com You guys, welcome to another episode in Nostalgia An Now. I'm so excited for this next guest. She is a friend of mine, one of my first friends in Nashville, but also a journalist who's written a lot about pop culture, An a rumor, thank you so much for coming on this podcast. I'm so honored to be here. I'm like a dedicated listener and, you know, like a lighthearted stalker of yours too So I'm like thrilled to be here and actually be a part of the pod. I'm so excited. And you guys, Anna and I actually met at the opening of Uncommon James That's kismut right there. the way that we met it because I had followed Laguna Beach for while at that point. and I remember running into you at the like opening party and thinking Is that? Be much like that like She posted that she was going be here, but like I don't really know her. Should I say something? And you know, thank God for whatever you know, came over me in that moment that allowed me to walk up to a total stranger and be like, hello. I think I follow you on Instagram No, it was incredible. So I had just finished interviewing Kristen and then Anna shows up and she wases, I'm a huge fan of yours As I'm still with Kristen and Kristen was like, thank you And he went, No, look at me N you not you at all, honestly. Kelly. onn Instagram, I will post the photo because I still have it in my photo role. Anna had quite the cameo on oncon or on veryerry Cavillary I have a real talent for how I say this standing there looking like I've seen a ghost, looking like I have never been in public before And I swear I'm having a good time, but I just remember us at that party 'cause I don't know about you. I didn't know that was gonna be filmed. I don't remember if you knew but it was gonna be filmed. I did know it was gonna be filmed 'cause E called me to like sign. 'causeuse they filmed like my interview with Kristen, thinking it was gonna be a part of the show unfortunately left on the cutting room floor. flop. That's why it got canceled It it was going to be filmed either ' because I was showing up just to interview Kristen for like my job And I showed up and there were cameras everywhere. And so I was really trying to avoid being on camera in general because I was coming from the office, I looked And somehow I managed to end up in like three different shots and all the shots is like me staring directly into the soul of the viewer and also looking really scared. Well, I remember one of our conversations because I was in all black and you were in like a red sweater in blackes, I want to say. And we were like, o everyone's like really dressed for this. L everyone looks like influ. And I think influencer was a new word and we were like, oh, is this what influencers look like? Wow, everyone's like really, really done up and I truly came from the office And I didn't look nice there either. So We're off to a great start. What a television debut for both of us And we can confirm that there were just walking around with sushi. They didn't have food. They just had sushi from the grocery. I ate it. I didn't mind. I think I stayed away from the sushi Also I think I was just too nervous to eat. I was like, oh my god. They're going to capture me. You know, There was really a lot going on. and we tried to remain cool, but it was quite the night quite the night. And I do recall we got like a little uncommon Jan's necklace or whatever it was. and think gu I don still' have it. so there you go. Thanks, Kristen. did not fit. You know, it's not my style. so I think I've just been carrying it from apartment to apartment throughout my life. I don't know. It should probably go somewhere else. That's so funny. Well, before we get into everything with your career, which I find so fascinating, I did want to do like a rapid fire this or that Oh, this is what I've been waiting for my whole life. I'm ready for this or that Team Lauren or Team Kristen Oh, I mean Tam Morren sorry. You're in good company. You know that. I think I'm in the best company, but I'd hate to be controversed Welome to RRL or MTV Spring Bak. M TRL easy. I mean, that was like coming home every single day, just trying to like catch the end of it. Ttally Phones are blackberries You know, I never had a Backberry. I went straight from flip phone to iPhone, which is I feel like we missed a middle step. I also I'll never update my phone unless I'm like physically forced to. So I think That's where I missed it. but I do feel like we missed out on blackberry culture I agree like the pearl with that in the middle, the little scrolling button. My sister had one and I was begging to play snake on it and she would never let me. Well, that's just not right I agree. Let's bring her on the pod. Let's cancel her I know she's teeam Kristen, no, I'm just gonna. I know, I know probably. Mypace or Facebook. Oh my space. what a time we had on My space. So dramatic. That was really where we all honed our love for the drama The topop eight. Do you remember what your layout was at all Oh, absolutely. I changed it like weekly too. I clearly had a lot going on at that point in my life I was like, I was emo kid, blue hair all black. And so I changed the background about once a week to be various shots of converse shoes with some kind of lyric. And then it was all of the surveys that were like Have you ever kissed anyone And I would always write like maybe or like I'm not telling. And the answer was no I forgot about the surveys. Oh my God, the blog posts blog posts, me just being like posting my whole school schedule on the worldwide web Does anyone have the same classes as me It's so funny. Oh, what a time. Britney or Christina. Ooh, okay. Well, fun fact. So I'm Team Britneany forever and always, Joseph for Britneany. But I actually went to the same high school as Christina Aguilera. so I feel like I'm kind of betraying her in that way Oh, my God. Any stories you could tell or like lore of Christina Aguilera? I have Laura because she's not much older than me, that sounds pretty shady, but we were not in school like at the same time at all. But my biology, chemistry, one of those science classes that I was not paying attention to One of those teachers brought out a mug every year apparently and it was like This is the mug that Christine Aguilar cameave to me to say that I was the best insert science specialty teacher that she'd ever had. And he was like, but she wasn't a very good student That would also be me if I had a mug made by a famous person. Every podcast I would be like, Deb, do you know who made this? Do you know who did this And you know what, that was the only time I paid attention in class. So you really got me there, especially in science, right? Oh my gosh. I was like, wait, we're talking about Christine Regulara loking in How about what's your best reality show of all time? You your favorite? Or maybe it's not your favorite, but you think it's done the best overall. In terms of singularity, I think that the early seasons of Vanderpump rules are just unmatched and I think it's a almost like a religious experience to watch them for the first time It's a little bit of a flash in the pan once they you know, their frontal lobes developed and they out apartments that where the AC worked at the same time as the microwave. But I think that that is just like at all timer, that's a that's a life changer I remember I first started watching it right around the time you and I started hanging out and you were so excited and you really walked me through that experience. I'm so glad to know, but every single time someone's watching Vanda Pump Rules, I'm there peeking in being like That's the point You said that about the show and I thought that was so smart because like later in life, later in life when I turned thirty, I watched like girls and you weren in my I being like, all of them are bad. It's okay Yes, and I do not to divert too much, but I just think that that is an attitude that we all need to adopt as lovers of reality TV because I see so much in the discourse today, people being like I only want people who are nice and likeable on there. And then they complain that the show is boring. And I'm like, What happens? we have to take this as anthropology as opposed to like a moral sort of judgment on who we stand by, you know? Right? You can't have a show full of Lauren Conrades. It just wouldn't work No, of course, we're all in war inside, but wouldould that be? you know A lot of glances and like smiles with their tongue sticking out a little Yeah, exactly. I've already been through that. I went to high school. so How about who's a celebrity that you'd love to have dinner with? Oh, okay. this is my dream dinner. I would love to have Amy Poher and Tina Feay on either side of me, I don't have to say a word I would love to, but I don't know if I could like keep up, but I would love to be there. I would love to soak up their energy And so if they're listening, call me. I'm open. They're definitely listening. They are listening and they really want to take me out to dinner and they want to pay too As someone who loves pop culture as much as you do, writes about pop culture, what is a pop culture moment or multiple moments? It could be like three if you want, that have always stuck in your brain Oh my gosh. Okaykay, well The first one, you know, it really has nothing to do with anything in my career, but it is a moment where I feel like I became like gnant as a child, and it was the Tiger Woods cheating scandal.. Be I was just I like I didn't know who that guy was, but I knew that his wife was like beating in the side of his car with the golf club And I remember being very intrigued by that. And then what are other ones? I mean, I guess this is not really a moment, but more of cultural moment. Watching Buffy the vampire Slayer as a child ever shaped the way that I view television and like myself and just the world around me. And I wasn't even watching it in order because I supposed be watching it. so I was just kind of seeing episode to episode. but that was like a phenomenon. And then a more recent one, I guess Oh, when I hate to be that person to bring it up, but it's the summer house scandal. I feel like I haven't been able to talk about anything else for like ye, a couple months Yeah, it's been a lot and over on Beyond the blinds, we broke it. I know. my listeners are like, we know. I say it every time because I want Credit for it I't I'm like a woman possessed. I'm like Katie talking about Regina and mean Girls. I can't stop You shouldn't because you did it and that's journalism, everyone This is journalism. Thank you. I am a journalist. Thank you. First and foremost, I'm a journalist. I'm a storyteller first and foremost. I do have to say though, when you broke it the first time, not that I don't believe you or trust your sources or anything. I was just like, It must be a misunderstanding because that would never happen. That doesn't make any sense to me It was a big conversation with Troy because we have gotten like quite a few DMs about different celebrities and we hadn't reported, but then it came out to be true. And I was like, we just have to try. I was like, we just need to make an episode and make it happen. He's like, okay, but what if it's not true? I'm like, then we'll say we're sorry In the world of Dumois, you know, what are what are doing? you know?'s It's all fair game at this point. I agree, I agree with you. And what do you think of that that everything's kind of fair game now? How does that make you feel and has it changed how you report on things or do you feel like you need to like report quicker on things So as a pop culture lover, you know, I'm intrigued by it. I love the tea and like let's sauce it out later. As a journalist who went to journalism school you know started in newspapers and politics and like governments. I do find it a little shocking to the system a little sad that we're going that way But you know, that's the way of the world. and it certainly does impress upon us a tighter deadline. It's a little bit. more of an urgent situation whenever there's something big like that to reach out and confirm or to see what else is out there and it's tough I try not to cite those things just because that it doesn't feel like there's much verosity to them at that point. But as someone who's looking at them and reading them all the time, I mean like I'm being hypocritical myself. So I understand the appeal. right? You're like, I enjoy it. I just can't cite it Yeah, exactly. It's personal professional direct line where I'm like, oh my God, and then, you know, I enter my home office and I'm like, that's wrong How did you get into entertainment journalism to begin with? Because I know it all started when you went to college with Logan Paul I know. was that was exactly it. Oh, I saw Logan Paul and I said, I have to center my career around this kind of guy. Well, first of all, I did go to college with Logan Paul. He's younger than me sadly. And I really didn't know him. It was Ohio University. I don't even know if he graduated honestly. prefer to not list to in the OU alM If he did, you know, my dad But I really I really didn't know him onlyn tea I can give is I was at one party that he was at one time And the general vibe was like, this guy is doing way too much and sucks And I think that really fair assessment.. stillill to this day doing much and seems to suck. I mean, I don't say that on the record. so my fellow classmate, Logan Paul how what an odd group of celebrities I have personal ties to. Christinine Aduilera, Logan Paul, H differentere ends of the spectrum for sure My God, please. Yes Yeahah, I went to college at Ohio University for journalism and I got into the world of newspapers, which I thought would still exist back in the good old day of twenty ten And from there, you know, I did like hard news for a while really does feel like you're giving back to the community and all that great stuff. But I, you know, you got to be built different to do that And as much as I liked it, you know, I also really liked TV and movies and I was really interested in pop culture and I needed something a little bit lighter. And then fast forward a decade, I've been doing it for like ten years now. And I have to say that entertainment journalism is brutal industry, but also like so fun and it barely feels like you're working most of the time. Well, congratulations on ten years first of all. That is incredible. Put me in the grave. Did you feel like? I don't know if fulfilleds the right word, but almost like more fulfilled doing pop culture stuff becausecause it wasn't so heavy on you all the time. know With pop culture, obviously there are still heavy things to cover. I'm not trying to minimize that But did you just feel like more fulfilled and lighter? Oh, totally. I mean, like the mental health of working in the newspaper industry, working in politics, working in like breaking news that's a tough business to work in mental health wise. And when I move to entertainment, I mean, even the darkest stories in entertainment You're not in it the same way, if that makes sense. Totally. You don't take it home with you as much and it doesn't feel like it's something that really like weighs on you. And I think that's part of just being so broad, being so widespread that for better or worse, there is kind of a degree of separation between The people who are watching these things play out and the people who it's happening to. I mean, it's the push that celebrities have been making for the past decade five years at this point where it's like we're real people too, which is totally true. But you know, everyone knows that it certainly doesn't feel like that sometimes. Yeah, absolutely. And also I guess with you being in this business for so long at this point, has the shift with social media been difficult to deal with? And even, you know, I know for a little bit you and Jose would do your web show for popculture dot com d was it? hard to do that? or were are you just like, this is how it's going and I have to jump in? Yeah, shhout to Jose Bassitas, love him. He's at the Rp. And we had a show for a while that was really fun to do. but it definitely was us learning on the fly because things chang so quickly with social media and the pivot of video and the pivot away from video. It's just very much an industry where things change from moment to moment and you gott to roll with the punches. Luckily, I am someone who rolls with the punches pretty well. Because I'm always down to get smacked in the face, apparently. Yeah, You know, I recently, like a year or two ago, started making TikToks. and I was like, I'm too old to make TikToks. and And now I make TikToks regularly and I'm like, well, Here we are, Cap cut, bring it on. I'm glad you said you're not too old because I feel like a lot of people really hold themselves back thinking, you know, I'm thirty four, how could I start talking about entertainment on TikTok? And it's like anyone can do it You just have to be like consistent with it. I think that Consistency is so important Oh my gosh, yeah, you just have to, I mean we're not old, you know, there's such a weird exactly discourse of people being like, once you turn thirty you're in the grave, it's like you can never pay me to be any younger than I am in this exact moment. What a housescape my twenties were It's so true. Why are we glamorizing the twenties? I was so brokeen and so crazy But in you know, we've got so much experience. We grew up with the internet. We basically ran that shit. you know, You tell me I can't make a TikTok. I was back there coding mySpace every week. . You know, you say you're really good with rolling with the punches, which I agree for you know, how long I've known you. I did make you film me grab MGK's hand at a follow up boy concert. Anna got that on video for me. than God. But one other thing you did was you went on the deadliest catch boats Oh yeah It was really fun. I still watch deeadliest catch. likeike I'm like an old man with my show sometimes like American pickers and deeadliest Catch, like I'm still watching those. What was that experience like? and did it take a lot of convincing for you too be like, okay, I'll go to Alaska and get on this crab shhip. Crabbs ship, crabbat crab ship. Yeah Honviously me being there, I'm like, that sounds right This was this was back in what twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen around there. And Taking convincing. I was the one begging I was like, Can I go on the boat? Can I go on the boat? Can I go on the boat? I promise if I fall off, I will not su you And luckily, I worked with the discovery PR team pretty closely back then and after a fair amount of theing and promising not to see them, they were like, you can come on the boat U and what a time. that show is legit. Like I know Reity TV is a fair balance of legit and not legit. But man going on that boat I went on the whizzer wrong and Bill in the team. They were in the team, the crew, I suppose, really nautical over here They were lovely to me. Obviously, I I had no idea what was going on. This is their real job that makes them real money. They were so nice to be so kind and they really they showed me the ropes and how to cages and throw them overboard and reel them back in. and they were so nice despite the fact that I sucked at all of it Um It's super hard. I can't even imagine how they do it all day. I did it for at a time and was like, I need to I need to return to my hotel. I need to rest. He said, I'm not gonna sleep on this boat, but I will go on it Yeah, I'll go on the boow, but you have to let me off the boat too I need access to land at all times. Yes. And it was, I mean, they were so I mean, I think they enjoyed watching me try because you know, I was flopping pretty hard at it And I almost lost the tip of my finger. That is that's my one almost claim to fame. They told me to move my hand They shouted, moveve your hand. And I went, huh And didn't move my hand. And luckily my gloves, all the equipment that they gave me, it's made for an adult man and I'm a pretty short adult woman. So it was all draping off of me. And luckily the glove was like way too big. so I was able to slide it out just at the last second. But this big cage came down and it broke my fingernail in half. It was all bloody and stuff like that. But God forbid if I had actually just not moved at all. I just remember you going on that. and I was like, Anna is the coolest fucking person I have ever met Oh this is so sick Honestly, that's like the coolest thing you've ever done. It's all been downhill from there I was gonna ask what was your first like big celebrity interviewer story that you were kind of like, I made it. Like I can do this as my job. ' yeah, I'm just curious This is like kind of the answer to your question, but biggest moment where I was like, oh, I'm doing well at this and I can keep going is You know, I entered the business and I was reaching out to everyone all the time for anything like a scrap. Please like ABC, please kind of have a photo of dancing with the stars, like that kind of thing And when I started getting emails asking me to break news That's when I was like, okay. I'm I'm in it now. Now I'm part of the ecosystem. I can keep doing this And particularly, I'm such a Bravo fan. So when the Bravo network and they're all lovely to work with. I just have to say everyone at Bravo NBC Universal, like, ultimate professionals. I love them U But when they started reaching out to me being like, Do you want to do something with the real housewives? I was like Do I This I've been dreaming of this is my whole thing. U So I think that that was like the real I got it moment I do remember you interviewing in Summer Haler Oh, yeah. And I thought that was going to be your answer for your because you love vampire diaries. I do. I had a vampire diaries phase where I had to I had to actively stop watching the show because I was like I'm too involved. Like I'm crying after the show's done And it's not like it's good, but it's not that good. We It's not the Spranos. We need to be able to extricate ourself from from the drama between Damon and Elena. So yeah, by talking to Ian my I was trying not to be like a weirdo about it, but I was like, I love you and a poster v my door How do you keep yourself calm When you're interviewing people, like do you have a trick or beta blocker or anything After watching a summer house reunion, I'm like, I got to get these d blockers. L this seems really helpful because I'm a pretty nervous person I'm not calm. I guess that's kind of the secret is I am pretty nervous most of the time that I'm doing these interviews but I can just kind of put on a face and and make it seem like I'm not so nervous. I wish I had better Tips and tricks, my therapist would be horrified Do you hear me to say, I'm just associating. I don't know. I'm just doing my whole different pro It feels like it's a different person than when it's me being a professional and talking to these people. So I guess that's my answer. We just turn it on Turn it on. Yeah. And then it's always helpful to think, you know what? this is probably not gonna to be the worst interview of my career And then right way to go into it. This isn't my worst. I know it's gonna be nowhere near my worst L like it could be my best, It could be somewhere in the middle not going to be the worst What do you think like your best article has been? Do you have an article that you or multiple that you look back on and you're like, wow, I really crush that one Why does the same news story sound completely different depending on where you read it That confusion is exactly what Ground News was built to solve. It's an app and website that compares news coverage, allowing you to see how each story is framed across the political spectrum and the world. For the recent story about the U.S. signing the memorandum of undernderstanding with Iran, their vantage plan shows us that Right Leaning Daily Express framed it as a historic peace deal, while lefte Leaning NPR notes it resulted in the president's approval hitting record lows, plus data like each publication's source of funding and a factuality rating. The Nobel Peace Center even called Ground News an excellent way to stay informed. Avoid echo chambers and expand your world view. Get forty percent off by going to ground. news slash twenty twenty six That's ground dot news slash twenty twenty six. againain Ground. news slash twenty twenty six. Keep hearing podcast ads like this one, for example. But always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're ACast, and we give you the platform to do it all yourself. Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget, and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at acast dot com slash advertise is a little bit tougher to remember just because I have written a million articles, but I do have to say interview on We did a really, really fun interview with Anna Ferris A while back And she A, she's delightful U att the end, V were just kind of like chatting about. You two have the same energy, same name and same energy, honestly Oh my God. Well, thank you. We did start off the conversation by being like we are two sides of the ANNNA mirror, Yes. u But we had a really good time. I think we got some really good information. we were just talking about her career and how she sees entertainments. And if I recall correctly, it was like a spawn interview too. So eventually we had to come back and do like a little bit of an ad and then But it was just the PR person being like information and just kind of the report that we built during that interview I remember thinking, oh, this is going really well and I feel like I'm really getting to know her. And that's kind of what I look for in these interviews is I really just want to get a glimpse of who this person really is. Yeah. That's so cool. And she's such a good one. She's so underrated. and I'm so sick of everyone being like, she's acting crazy on the red caret. I'm like always acted like that Cirky gow. Yeah. Do we not like quirky gals in Hollywood anymore? Hollywood was built on quirky gals. I know, no more quirkies, no more cooky girls. Gen Z couldn't handle Liz Manallle Just kidding Jen ie, I love you. You're gonna save us all hopefully. Liza Manneelli, they wouldn't know what to do with her. They wouldn't. They'd be like, I barely know I'm beta Ber I know there are certain people who come along and you just have to Take them, accept them and say thank you for being here. Exactly. Thank you for being you. Yeah. I've got nothing else to get you. I'm just gonna watch and have fun What do you think that is something that like listeners of this podcast might be surprised about when it comes to entertainment journalism? someome behind the scenes stuff if anything Yeah I think that there's a lot of misunderstanding about how things there Like certainly there is a fair amount of back and forth with PR people and with representatives and with networks and that kind of thing I swear everyone is a conspiracy theorist now, where everyone thinks that everything is set up. I know you are too And sometimes we'll like Kelly, that's not it. My dal hat rarely moves from my head And you know what? I like I love to listen to it because that would be so much more fun than what the reality of it of it is is All kind of just normal people in the backke end, like the journalists and the PR people were all pretty normal. And so most of the time if you feel like something is set up, Unless it's like a PR moment where it's like like the pop walks and stuff like that and like back grid, we all know about that. That's kind of an open secret A lot of the times it's just people sitting on their couch working remotely and there's no like kind of broader schemam offoot orr if there is has invited me to be a part of it, and I'm offended If I ever have to put together a PR scheme, I will come right to you J like Do I can keep a secret. I don't know. Do people think I can't ' I'm chatty Because you're nervous. Bea I'm nervous pieces are ping. Now you know have covered so many celebrities. likeike I said, from like unnafaris to discovery channel people, really everyone across the board, Has your opinion of fame changed at all now that you've been doing this for so long and kind of working with celebrities for so long? Oh, absolutely. I used to think that being famous would be best and now I don't even post on Instagram anymore. That's just how much I value privacy now after watching people be so not private I'm so happy that these people are willing to share themselves with us and with me specifically. so keep going. But Jame seems like a real Housecape. I'll just say that. and it sounds Really tough and after sitting through countless press days with these celebrities. I They're earning that money Those are long days of them asking and answering the same questions a million times Well, do you think celebrity culture is actually healthier today than it was in the two thousands or do you think it's just packaged differently? very interesting question My initial response would be that it is healthier. I mean, we all lived through the Jessica Simpson wore jeans on stage. How can you talk about that How dareres she look great? and like she ate a sandwich at some point in her life. So I would I would want to say I feel like it's healthier now But now that I think about it, it is very invasive toxification of news and the way that we really dig into these people's lives On the other hand, I'm sry I'm not giving answer at all. I'm just thinking out loud No, I love this. No, this is amazing. I love having conversations like this. Yeah, it's a very good question. I do think that celebrities having access to social media, like Instagram and TikTok. I do think that that has made it healthier in a way in that the They can reach out to their fans and say exactly what they mean whenever they want to say it. But Is that healthy to be receiving constant criticism because that's of course what the comments are No, that's a very good question. I don't think there's we should be like worsipping celebrities the way we used to. I think it's good K kind of taken a step back, but haven't. It's just in like a different way. Now it's like Stan Mars or whatever. Yeah But like if you think about it in the late nineties, early two thousands, like celebrities could go to dinner and not photograph. But now everyone's a paparazzi. And I think everybody wants to be a content, maybe not everybody. people listening are like, I don't want to be a fucking content creator. but a lot of people want to become content creators now. So I just think there's so many more voices where back in the day we had like TMZ extxtra access Hollywood E newews and now press Don't say his here But yeah, it's just so many new avenues and different avenues. And again, if you have a cell phone, you're a paparazzi at this point. That is such a good take on it. I think, yeah, I one hundred percent agree with you. And I think it's a little bit crazy to Just how parasocial everything has gotten. in the two thousands, your celebrity would you know, your celebrity would do something and it was something to talk about and you know, weigh in on. But now people take it very personally. Yeah evenven if it's not that big of a deal. I'm a fan of the pit. I'm a Pittsburgher and the show does not depict living in Pittsburgh at all, but it's okay to like it But I'll watch the episode and I'll log on afterwards and seeing everyone talk about it. I'm like, arere we watching the same show? I'm here to have a good time and watch Noah Wiley. I don't know Totally like the Samurai turned pretty. That was a show that like I've loved since it aired. and I feel like over the summer or last year it got really popular. And I was like, all right, Jeremiah kind of sucks, but he's also like a twenty one year old kid who sucks. Like I don't think we need to have this many think pieces on Jeremiah and Conrad. I know. I feel bad saying it because I'm like, this is my colleagues writing the think pieces, but also like, what are we doing with allvious think pieces? Not everything needs to be thought about that much, perhaps I I'm like, no one would have been able to survive One Tree Hill if we had think pieces every week on Lucas Scott. Speaking of One Tree Hill, you forced me to watch One Tree Hill. Yes, the school shooting episode, you were like everyone. Well, you were like, I do this to everyone. I'm gonna to make you watch it. And I was like, I've never seen an episode of this show. and you're like, I'm starting you here And it was a wild experience So thank you for that. Have you ever watched it again since ast episode to start with but I'm always like, you eith eith're gonna be able to handle this or you're not. And I was like, I'm tapping out. I can't I can't do it. I'm not strong enough, Kelly Oh my Godd, you're like, I'll go back to Mystic Fallse. I know. I was like, giveive me my vampire diaries. That just makes no sense, but everyone's wearing a Henley. That's really funny. So thanks for that. Now this doesn't have to be like a story you've reported on or anything, but do you think there's a celebrity story that's misunderstood by the public twenty twenty six FaTFA World Cup Meal and McDonald's is underway with one of nine legendary cups in the lineup. Christian Pulisk, David Beickham, Lominam Mal, Ronald Digno, Tier Henri, Sun Hng Min, Alfonzo Davies, Santi Jermenez, and between the posts it's Grimous. Get one of nine collections The comes with the FIFA World Cup Mal. Participating Mcald's for un limited time, while supplies last, Alrightight Reserve twenty six McDonal's FForup twenty six. Do you keep hearing podcast ads like this one, for example? But always wonder how you actually get involved with them for your own brand or organization? Well, it's easier than you think. We're ACast and we give you the platform to do it all yourself Browse thousands of popular podcasts, choose the shows that match your perfect audience, set your budget and launch. And if you want a hand, our podcast specialists are there to help you launch with confidence. This is podcast advertising without barriers. Get started at aast d. com slash advertise. Hm misunderstood by the public. I think there's a lot that is misunderstood by the public And of course, I'm you know, I'm part of the public too. so I could also be misunderstanding things. Just like a recent conversation that has been throwing me a little bit is the whole like summerhouse Amanda West of it all. I think there's been kind of a weird Pivot away from what's upsetting I don't, I don't know I think there's been like I think when a story talk about so much it almost like eats its own tail. Totally. Yeah. And now we're talking about all sorts of just kind of odd parts of it because there's nothing else to say, you know? And so I think that we've kind of moved away from the central heart of the issue, at least in my opinion, which is just, you know, like how could you betray a close friend like that? Yeah, it was just like a really shitty thing to do Yes, and I think we've moved into a point of like pathologizing everything too which makes things a little bit less fun at least for me just because like let's just watch some TV But I think people have really gotten super serious about all of that. and I I do agree it's a serious situation. and deserves the amount of blowback that it initially got, but I think we've gotten to a point where So let's all take like three steps back Yeah. And I don't need a new picture of Amanda and Wes spitting into each other's mouth like every five seconds. I got it. I got it. You know, I was newer to the Bravo verse when we met. Now I'm not a seasoned vet, but I watch a lot of Bravo now. And I just even like talking about the valley. I'll take the Valley. The way people were saying Janet was the worst person on that show when Jax is there, I was like, we're losing something. We're really losing something. I don't know exactly what it is, but something is getting lost in all of this First of all, I agree, you know, justustice for Janet, if your crime, your biggest crime is like being kind of annoying, lock me up, you know I think it's the hot tification of Tal and just having to crank content out. peopleeople really have to take odd looks at things And I think that because the Algo promotes inflammatory statements and things that are generating a lot of conversation in the comments. I think that kind of pattern has become more normalized When you go out and touch grass and talk to people in real life Like of course, Janet, if you were talking about a Janet or a Jax Janet was worse than Jack's, but you you get into the fandom you go on Reddit. I'm be I'm on Reddit. And people really just kind of work themselves into some kind of tizzy that makes No res sense I'm like, you can calm down. It's okay. It's okay.. It's okay to just watch the show Let's have fun.t have to have fun anymore. It's very sex in the city I agree, no one wants to be silly and I love being silly Oh my gosh, I'm always being silly. If I'm talking, I'm generally being silly I should have to preface when I'm not being silly So is there a celebrity that you've interviewed that completely surprised you Ooh, surprise It was a surprise In that after the conversation, I was like, whyy am I surprised at all But I talked to Anne Hathaway a while back for her. What was the what was the apppple The Apple TV with Jared Letto. Yeah, sorry, everyone. I' curarently. I really like the show. U But I talked to her for that. and you know, There's such a meme about Anne Hathaway. or there was at the time, certainly. I think we've all come back to appreciating her Devil Wars Prda era But she was the M lovely Well spoken, thoughtful Kind personers to talk to And I wasn't expecting her to be, you know this horrible person or anything like that, but she really was putting in A ton of thought. beinging extra kind on a day where you really like don't have to as a celebrity, it's a long day. We get it. And I wasn't even using videos. So there would have been no evidence. But she was just so in it a consimate professional. and I walked away going, why am I shocked? Why am I surprised by that? But I was, you know, There is a narrative about people that gets spun where when you actually meet them, you're like, o yeah, you know You have seemed lovely always. Why did I even let the culture get to me. People got mad about her hosting the Oscars with James Franco. That was kind of part of it. And then during the lame Miz, everyone was like, oh my Godd, she has a shaved head and all she wants to do is sing. L they got so sick of her I was like care I mean, the James Franco thing, that's probably I know, That's its own thing shed head and the singing, that's fine, you know P I And she's got theater kid energy. Yeah The best of them do. They're all theater kids. That's the thing about celebrities That's a really good point. and something we say all the time on Beyond the blind, it's like they're weird Theater kids, and that's just what it is I was a weird theater kid. so I really resonated with that energy and It's part of why I'm not particularly like intimidated in speaking to these people because I'm like, you're my peers. I was worse at it than you Significantly. But we had the same dreams Are you kidding? If I could sing, I would be so horrible to be around. No, I'd be unbearable if I had a good voice. Oh my God, I would never speak again An Apera of one Well, let's travel back. Let's do some nostalgia stuff, okay? You ready? I'm ready If you could go back and cover one early two thousands event or multiple, whatever, rules can be bent, as it happened, what do you think it would be Oh my Godd I mean, the rise of the pop divvers, like the pop divvers, like Brittany Christina, that kind of you know, back and forth along with the rise of the boy bands in sync I mean, what a time to be in pop culture because notot only was that a music thing, you know, not I'm not so a music journalist, but that was so All encompassing. It was everywhere. Everyone knew about them Banger after banger after banger and there was some solid drama going on interpersonally and you know, like and the business scale too I would have loved to be a part of covering that. I think that would have been really interesting. And just like what a good time too. All of those people are still in the zeitgeist That's a good point. I feel like celebrities now don't have the same staying power that they used to Absolutely. I mean, we're still talking about these people. When the Brittney Book came out Yeah I was mad at Justin Timberlake all over again. I know, I'm still let team backackstreet boys, by the way, to be clear just so everyone knows. Oh, we know. Oh, we know. If I was writing at that time, I'd be like Bry boys are better because Well, and I was team in sync and my best friend was Team backackstreet Boy and we used to have real fights about it. Yeah. It was a real big thing It was nicer when Stam wars are face to face instead of a wor You can't really like look at your real best friend and be like KMS, you know, or KYS, I guess. Was there a celebrity couple you rooted for in the early two thousands? Anyone you rooted for but didn't end up making it? Oh, well, no, this is this is my greatest claim to fame. So we did make it. Freddie Prince Junror. Saram Michelle Geller. As I mentioned, I'm a Buffy Stan And I'm also a big sccooby doo fan. I don't know where that G is great and I'm sick of pretending that I haven't seen everything that they've ever put out Inluding I had like two DVDs growing up and one of them was Scooby Doo the movie, and another one was Clue. So that's my personality in a nutshell, but Sarah Michelle Geller, Fredie Brinz Jr. When they were Fred and Daphne, I was like I wish they'd be together in real life when I found out they were, I latched ono that. And look at them now. They're a great couple. notot talked about very often too. and I think it's because they're so great There's nothing to talk about. Nothing to talk about and they're both beautiful. I mean, like my God the face cards on both of them. insane So about of my claim to fame. I can recognize love occasionally kind of touched on this, but how has social media like changed celebrity reporting? I know we mentioned like everybody wants a hot take, but you're in it. What is it like having to kind of like people on social media, I guess It's crazy. I mean, it really does. pererhaps this is an ungenerous take, but Sometimes you're really fighting for these stories against people who are just throwing whatever up U and you're going like, why do I go to school for this? This is crazy. This is a totally different environment than what I trained for So that that's in itself is very crazy, but it also makes Celebrityities a lot more accessible for everyone, you know for people who are just creating content, which is awesome. And it really kind of lowers the barrier for entry for people who are looking to get into this industry. And I think that's good and bad. goodood because we hear from everyone now And it's not just kind of that like ivory tower of people who are in New York and LA But it's also, you know What is the Spider Man thing? with great power comes great responsibility. I thought you meant they're all pointing at each other. I thought It's that dude though. It's definitely the Spider Man meme of everyone pointing at each other But it really is just one of those things where it's like, okay, so if Everyone has access What does that mean? Does that mean that no one has access Or does that mean that we're getting things that we wouldn't have gotten before So I think that I think that's been a really interesting pivot. Again, like there are definitely ical barriers that have been pushed and pushed and pushed as the years go on. You know, I try to maintain the most ethical barriers that I can. but then the culture has just changed. Things have really shifted. and I think it's been interesting as a journalist to kind of watch that evolve. It's certainly not the newspaper days When we met, you were in Nashville working. was didid you feel like you had like a different edge because you weren't in LA or New York? Did you get kind of different celebrities, maybe like country singers or was there anything good? I don't know if good's the right word I hoping in Nashville being aort Etertainment report. because we were there like I know Nashville was popping off when we moved there, but l up It kind of got way bigger, I would say, like twenty nineteen, twenty twenty Yeah, I think there would have been more of a benefit to live in Nashville after I left Nashville. I do not regret leaving, so that's okay. I think that it was definitely different sect of celebrities that I had access to, which was but it wasn't particularly the sect of celebrities that I was most interested in. I'm not really a country person, you know It's not really my jam Um Unless we're talking about the chicks, in which case I'm in, but they were not there. So, you know, I'm out. But I think that there was definitely like a whole other celebrity culture down there. Yeah. And I don't I tapped into it when I was there But I wasn't there that long. And I think that if I had stayed and sourced things a little bit deeper as time had gone on, I would have had different access But I also do not regret having that access rescinded after I left Well, we're getting towards the end and if you don't have an answer to this question, it's fine. But what's the weirdest rumor you've had to fact check? Hh Oh I don't know if I have an answer for that one. I'm trying to think all gets pretty bizarre at a certain point. hereere, this is a it's not really a weird rumor, but it's certainly a weird experience. Okay Eespecially in the world of reality TV Housewives, TLC, all that chant. I have to talk to these people face to face pretty regularly. ask them about like a horrible rumor that other people have been saying about And so, you know, coming face to face with someone and being like, So we've seen this season that your husband's cheating on you to watch back. He Fes very bizarre, but they're so game for it Oh, that's good Yeah. oh yeah. they're like, Yeahah, no, it has been hard. And I'm like, I would imagine But every time I'm doing it when I'm preparing my notes, I'm getting ready to talk to these people. and I have the most invasive questions, but it is relevant to what we're talking about and I go on Eth ote Real Housewives of Rhode Island, the new season. the only season, I guess. I had to ask Kelsey, I was like, so wait a second. So you have a boyfriend and you have another boyfriend, but you're not polyamorous Oh God And you know, and she explained it to me, I don't know if it really made much sense. but You know, it's one of those things where you're like, I'm really digging in deep with something that I don't have any right to know. but The floor is yours