Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs

Ooh. Kiwi . A great story, like Monsters Inc. stays with you forever. And Disney Plus is where you'll find your next great story. From the return of the award-winning hit series Rivals. Welcome to the naughtyest show on television. To the unmissable crime drama high potential. Gotta dead body, gotta go. A lifetime of great stories awaits. This spring on Disney Plus .18 Plus, subscription required. Ts and C's apply. We launched a resort collection, it nearly grossed like a million pounds in one day. It was like insane. You started with £12,000 of your own savings. I had no marketing knowledge, no marketing budget. The Sunday Times reported in 2024 that Ob Muse had sales of £22.5 million . This is like the big leagues. It's quite mental, I don't actually think about it too much. You make the move to New York and you're gonna open this store in Soha, and then Trump puts these tariffs in place. The New York store was empty for like two months, like and you're paying rent? Paying rent, yeah. How do you manage your stress when you're going through a year like that? I don't, I have no management. It keeps you up at night. Like when you've got a commercial lease like that, when you I've got like 60 people on my team, if this all goes down tomorrow Hi dolls, welcome back to Olivia's house. I am joined in my house today by the founder of OddMuse. It's none other than Amy Small ! Thank you for having me. I'm very excited for this one. I'm excited. I'm always excited to speak to a businesswoman, and you have quite a story that we're gonna delve into. Before we start, I don't know if you listen to the show, but we do a little thing here, we do a leave it at the door. So I was asked my guests what they'd like to leave at the door before we get into our chat. I thought about this one and um people who say they're gluten-free when they're not. It winds me up. That's a good foot. Just say you're cutting down on bread. Like is then like they pretend they're allergic to it. Yeah. Yeah. Does anyone have do you have any like people in your life that do that to you? Oh lot. Like they they say I can't have gluten, but actually say it's probably bloat as all. Yeah. And it's fine to cut it out if you want to. Do you know what I mean? Because some people are celiac. People like get really ill off gluten, we've got people out here pretending to be gluten. Very that that it just happens a lot. I can't I've got a couple friends where I can't gauge it. Like are we doing bread today? Are we not? Are we it just it winds me up a bit? So I'm looking out of the door. That's a really good one actually. Where do you stand on a bread basket? Are you down for a bread basket? Yeah. Who isn't? I'm at Grace that works with me, well I will say to her, oh don't let me near any bread, but when we because I'm one of those ones I can't control myself around bread and then I've overeat Oh yeah, I'm like the classic, like you know, when your mum used to tell you when you're younger, like don't ruin your dinner. Yeah. Yeah. Me. Um you you're off you're just off the plane from Dubai? Yeah. And going back tomorrow. Going back tomorrow. Dubai and visit. Yeah. I mean we'll get into where you've been all around the world in our chat, but you you're living in Dubai now. At the moment, yeah. And I kinda go where the business needs me. So the Middle East at the moment is really working for us and it's so exciting. And how do you find like 'cause I've always holidayed in Dubai my whole life pretty much. How do you how is it to live there? I mean just really nice. Like I hate how much I love it to be fair because there's so much slander. Do you wish you could like there's so much slander about it. Yeah. But I just I really like living in the sun. I don't know how long I'll be there, um, but I just enjoy the ease of life for a second. Like I've just lived in such hectic times for the last five years, so I'm just chilling out there. Is it a bit more of a slower pace of life than say in New York? Yeah, yeah, 100%. A lot more slow, a lot more comfortable. Let's take it right back. Let's take it back to Amy who was twenty one years old working at ASOS . What was your entry into working at ASOS? What were you doing there? Did you know did you always know you wanted to be in fashion? Yeah so I started out in a buying team which I always say anyone who wants to like own a brand one day, like go into buy in, because you really like learn like how brands actually get stock on a site or like on the shelves and stuff, like the idea of making clothes, buying clothes, margins, all the stuff behind it. So I did that for about a year and a half and then lockdown happened and I was kind of working from home. I got moved to the beauty department which some people like beauty d beauty buying but for me I feel I honestly felt like I was ordering like twenty-ivef pixie twenty-five thousand pixie glow tonics every single day. Whereas like before I was like going to like appointments and picking out new season clothes and I was like this is not fashion anymore. So you knew that your heart was a fashion beauty. I'm just gonna give this a go on my own. Did you have an idea for the brand for a while and what it would be and it would look like? Yeah, a hundred percent because when I first started working at ASOS, I was working on the premium women's wear department, which was their like lowest performing department. No one in the UK wanted any of these like gorgeous Australian brands. So I was like, I need to like bring out this like mid-luxury brand that people were actually gonna buy into. Yeah. Because ASOS will only buy in like dresses, like viscoast dresses for 150 quid. So I was just like, I need to come in at that price point with stuff that people actually want to wear and do value in the UK. So that's how I kinda landed on it. But yeah, it took being like twenty two and like being r mega naive to to just quit my job and do it. Did you think you were naive at the time? No, I genuinely was like, I've planned this all out to a T, this is gonna work. And I feel like that's when you've got to do it. Like I was like no one could tell me anything. I was like, this is gonna work. Um so yeah. You launched OvMuse in September 2020 with the iconic belted blazer. I actually wore that belted blazer. Do you know that? You got the white one. Yeah, on it. It was sort of a a TV show. What was it? Um it was w it might have been my Olivia Meets Her Match, the reality show. I think Jeff was like it was like a game show, I'm sure. Oh I don't know either. I think I might have worn a couple of different colours. Right, okay. Uh a stylus put me in one in a photo shoot one time because it was the blaze and I remember the qu it it was like thick, gorgeous material, it had like a pointed cut hem cuff, big wrap round. It was a very the piece was very recognizable, and that was like your kind of hero piece, wasn't it? That was like our first like viral piece, yeah. And when you launched where where did the name come from, Odd Muse? Oh I really need to like work on a better story for this. I thought you might have like a Right, so was obsessed with the word Muse and I thought what I was doing was odd . Odd muse. What a crap explanation. I need to get a lot more contemporary with it. Um note for next time. And so that's how you But that is genuine. What should I call it? People love the name. I love the name. People love the name and it's so unique and even like silly things like when you Google it, nothing else comes up like it is odd music stands on its own. So yeah, that was a bit lucky. Names are important, so that's lucky that people like it. Yeah I re and it it does stick in your memory. You you started with twelve thousand pounds of your own savings and you went right in. Was it enough? Uh yeah because I basically just spent it all on stock. Okay. I had no marketing knowledge, no marketing budget, so it was purely on getting this purely on getting the product to the stores. And do you had you learn a lot in your time and ASOS? Like how did you even know where to function? Yeah, I definitely learnt how to pri ce garments and I think everyone will go into a fashion brand not knowing how to do that. So I knew how to price even if someone like ASOS or Selfridge's would come knocking, I knew how to price so there was still a margin for me. So I think, yeah, that's just something people don't really understand going into things. That blazer you launched with went viral, Lorna Lux wore it very early on. Was that one of the kind of the breakout moments for you? One hundred percent because and I always say to her like I she's quite modest, but I put a lot of that first moment to her. I do believe the brand would be where we are today, but I just don't think I would have had that start. And it was just very organic. Like she purchased it herself, she posted on her story, like just found this brand, and it literally went crazy. Um so I think she gave me she gave me that moment within the first two weeks. 'Cause it was reported that in your first three months of trading you generated a hundred thousand pounds just through the blazer. I had like seven other pieces on site. But the blazer was It was a blazer. And I think that taught me something really early on that you only really need one product. So when people ask me, I'm like, don't trother trying to build out this like eight-piece capsule, like just focus on uh being good at one thing and that's why it took us like three years just to launch a dress. Yeah, 'cause you wanted to get it right. Yeah. So yeah, she that taught me a lot, like catapulting and having so many eyes on the brand and seeing that they only really loved the blazer was really important. I had no qualms about them hating the rest of the collection. I was like, right, okay, you like this. That's another thing buying will teach you as well. Like if they don't like something, move on. Whereas I think a lot of people get very emotionally attached to their products, whereas I'm very much like, she didn't like that, move on, don't do that again. So yeah. That's a good piece of advice. Don't personalize it. So just because you like it, if it doesn't sell, draw a line under it and everyone's next thing. Has there been times when you thought something's gonna pop off and then you're surprised the reaction? Or vice versa maybe. Maybe it's a piece that you underestimated. A couple of times there. was There was a point in 2024 where we had an amazing summer. Like it was our we launched a resort collection, it nearly grossed like a million pounds in one day. It was like insane. And then for the next collection, we like backed it hard. But it was like it was August. Who's buying August is like the weirdest time in people's wardrobes because they've bought all their summer clothes and they're not quite ready for winter. But we like backed this collection thing it was going to be super super successful and it just wasn't. So yeah, thinking about like you know that was a point where it's told me that odd music isn't invincible and you have to really look at like the months you're selling. Um but yeah, loads of loads of times over the last five years that things haven't worked that I thought was gonna work. But again, like we just take that as a lesson. When you see that kind of money coming in, like what does that actually feel like when you see sales and you're holding your phone and it's like the you like you say you're trading at these insane margins. What does it feel like? At the beginning it was like shocking. Like I remember when Lorna posted us and we generated like 60K that day and I was like sitting on the stairs looking at my mum and dad and my iPad like shall I tell them? Like I've just made sixty grand like should I tell them and I was like I don't think I should tell them yet um but now it's kind of like I've got big dreams, I won't I've self-funded it up until this point. So I kind of d I've never seen it as money in my pocket ever. Do you not that money in the in the business not yours? I mean I only appointed a finance director about a year ago and the first thing he said to me was like I've never seen someone manage cash flow like this at like your age, your level. Like I've never positive way. In a positive way, yeah. Like I have I've just saved so many rainy day funds because I just knew I wanted to grow the team and go into stores and I've always been a bit reluctant to work with I don't know investors and stuff like that. Do you still self own the brand? Yeah. And like is that has been a conscious decision to not go investor backed like I guess you've you've probably had offers. Yeah, I've had offers. Um I think I don't know, I've never really had to take the investment. No. We started as like a pre-order brand, which is basically like having an investor. We were essentially selling the stock before we had to pay our supplier. Such a good way to run it. And that was something that we completely fell into just because of the blazer selling out. I remember after Lorna wore it, I'd only bought a hundred units. Wow. So I was like there's eight hundred people that want this blazer and they're not gonna wait four weeks. Like I know everyone's it's COVID, everyone's like got scrolling TikTok. They're just moving on to the next thing. I need to sell to them now. So that's how pre-order started. Um and we are moving away from that. But for the first like four or five years, that just meant we was able to order exactly the stock we need. So we was never left with stock that couldn't sell because we was always selling it before it even landed in the UK. So yeah, I feel lucky to ver there's a few things that we've kind of fell into accidentally that have just led us to where we are today, yeah. Alongside Lorna and the other moments, I feel like the Molly mate Wimbledon. Yeah, that was a real that was she wore a white dress, button. Yeah, that really solidified us as like a Wimbledon brand. Yeah. Are you I feel like you are such a Wimbledon brand? Yeah, we are. Yeah, it's a big, big season for us. Um we only actually done the event like brand wise for the first time last year. Um but yeah that is a big moment when Molly wore it. Because I actually like didn't even see the text from her stylist or anything. Like she just went online and bought that again. Yeah so that was another like lucky organic moment. You you you've been open, you spoke about like, you know, the amazing like impact it has when influences organically wearing the brand. But you also spoke about early on in your career you did an LA based influencer dinner. Was it with the selling sunset girls? Yeah. Well, you basically said it what you c what it spent you didn't make any money basically out of it. Basically, pretty much. And I remember I like cleared my account. That's the only time I've been bad with cash flow. That was like I know first year or first two years. But that taug meht again. Like again, I couldn't have. I could have come home and like been absolutely besotted by that. But I come home and thought you can do these big PR moments, but if the product wasn't good, and when I look at that collection, it's not odd muse, it was like sequin dresses in the middle of July. And it really told me that a good product is gonna market itself all over again. And that's when I feel like I really got into like founder content again and really just like telling the story of the brand, telling the story of the products. So yeah, that was a that was a humbling experience. Have you paid influencers to wear ObMoves? Not yet. No. So like all of those moments have like you know, with the exception of that well the dinner wasn't paid, was it but you put it and all out. It it's been organic moments. Yeah. That's quite incredible, isn't it? Well I always just said like I want I don't want to sell my brand to customers. I wanna sell my brand to like talent as well. I want talent to love it so much. They wanna wear genuinely wanna wear it. And not like, oh god, I need to wear this and post it. Yeah. It's like we're five years in, new people come into the into the business, we're growing our marketing team and they want to like test that affiliate part of the business, and we absolutely will do that. But yeah, we've grown quite organically through people just loving the product. Yeah. You spoke there about founder content. I feel like you were very like early in this game. Like the founder content now feels like it's something that like all the founders are trying to do. Yeah. And it definitely has its advantages, it has its disadvantages. How has it been for you? Like when when was it you decided that uh you were gonna be more online and kind of share the behind the scenes? I think it just boils down to not really have any marketing knowledge. Like when I said I just had that twelve thousand pounds in stock, I was just like, well, I think it's quite quite cool that I've just decided to quit my job one day so I would like be on my Instagram stories packing orders and just sort of like narrating yeah and people caught onto that really quickly because also like over COVID everyone was like, Why the hell are you starting a business? And I was like, Well, everyone's on their phone, so I'm just gonna talk to them and tell them that I'll quit my job and possibly the worst time to quit your job and start a business. So that was my hook. And then you got people in. What's the disadvantages to sharing your story? Like, I feel like people are always ready to criticize, especially women. I mean, to be fair, it's it it is classic for women. Like everyone kind of like I had no bad exper ience up until probably opening our Nibon Street store. And it's like we always say women can kind of like hit a ceiling and then it's like They don't like us to go too much. No , it's like they want you to stay in a ceiling. They like us on the way up and then, you know, when you are successful there's got to be cracks in your story and there's got so I had a bit of that last year, but I think that they people especially uh even other women, they don't wanna see anyone any women become too powerful.. It makes sense It is other women. Yeah, it's other women. It is other women. It's not we we we go quite hard on men but it's actually women to women mm is what I've noticed. The only people that I think are like really awful and lying to me and to other people are women. Same. But only people that write horrible stories about people in the press women are women. And that's something I learnt last year because I've always been quite mean about men. But women can be awful. There's lots of girl on girl crime out there. Yeah. There really is. So yeah, had a bit of that last year, but um they're such a small group of people that they're so they're so loud and what I find interesting is uh these particular people go online as if they're experts and there was a time where I was like really like taking it too literal and like getting really upset and I'm like but I you know, I paid for a store in New York. I've paid, and this is all through the ex success of the brand, and people loving this product. So I'm like, and you know, we've we're with people like Selfridges, we're like the number one contemporary brand in like Harvey Nichols and all these different places and I'm like, why am I listening to you? Yeah. Who don't don't don't even own anything odd muse. Haven't even like bought from the brand. So yeah, it's in it's interesting, but I think unfortunately it just it comes there's a lot of pros and that's one of the cons. There was a certain time online when you know there were there's a couple of content creators who they spend their time basically trying to you know tear into people and talking about the price point versus the quality and all that stuff. How do you navigate that? And how do you do you ever see their point or do you think it's it like you say it's pure it's negative just for the sake of negative ? Oh, I can I've built odd muse off of constructive criticism in terms of like that that cust the customer didn't like this product. Like I've always been so reactive to what customers like. So I can recognise whether someone's doing something for views or if that's the actual truth. So yeah, I can take constructive criticism, but a lot of what you see on TikTok specifically, we've actually learned like in the last six months that it's not actually a platform for us that w it doesn't drive sales for us. I think it's a younger person there that shops from there. Um who is your customer? So our customer has really like grown with us. So she was twenty-two and I was twenty-two. Now when we look it's kind of like twenty-five to thirty-four is our main audience. And they're not really on TikTok the way they was in COVID, they've reverted back to Instagram. It's just yeah, we don't spend a lot of time on TikTok anymore. So you you make the move to New York, you were documenting it online, you're gonna open this a store in Soha, you're gonna move there, the dogs fly out of you, the whole thing. And then Trump puts these tariffs in place. Literally like the week of For someone who hasn't what's a tariff? In like layman's terms, how do we explain that? It made everything very, very expensive. So basically he put an 145% tariff on. So if you was ordering a $200 dress for OddMuse, you would then be charged a hundred and forty five per cent, which is about three hundred dollars or like on top of what you've paid. Yeah. So it's impossible. So yeah, I watched like the US part of the business like shut down overnight and that's like forty percent 's the Ben, what's going through your mind when you're seeing you're looking at those margins, you're seeing those tariffs come and you're thinking, we've just come out here, we've just opened the store, like it was just how is it how scary is it? It was scary and it was really uh y I had like a massive shipment that I needed to get into the US and I I paused it, then I didn't, then I didn't and the New York store was empty for like two months, like Like you're paying rent. Paying rent, yeah. New York rent is a big to rent a store in Soho Uh Ballpark. Don't give me a tell me exact. What do you ballpark? Yeah. Uh I've always been fancy. Tens of thousands a month, like near to like three figures. So that's it again. And I have a museum in Soho, like if you ever go there it's fing huge. I'm like, why didn't I get a cute little store? You went for the big basket . I mean, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so it's is it is an expensive thing to be sitting empty. It's an expensive thing to be sitting empty one hundred percent. Um and yeah, honestly, like twenty twenty-five was just hell on earth. How do you manage your stress when you're going for a year like that? Um or do you not ? I d I I I don't. I have no management. Yeah. When you've got a commercial lease like that when you I've got like sixty people on my team if this all goes down tomorrow it's and I'm also all self funded as well that that would be a bit alleviated if I did have some some investment. So yeah, it was actual hell.' Its like no sleep, tears, n not getting out my pajamas until like three PM, just like damage control. What could you really do? There's not Nothing. Nothing. Just wet and hope that things pray. Pray. Um but obviously we still had the UK side of the business. Yeah. We was working out, we now have a warehouse in the US, so it's fine now. Okay. But it's like I remember every Sunday Trump would announce something new on the Mondays, like every single Sunday in New York I was going to bed like what's he gonna say what's he gonna say today? And it was just oh god, it w it was hell, honestly. Like I'll always reference last year like I feel like last year was a f mental year for everyone. Like it was a very strange year, wasn't it? Yeah I don't know anyone that had a great time. No. You um where what's the status of the US and the US business now? Oh really good. Growing really well. Like domestic shipping, people can get their orders next day with no tariffs, like it's all good. But we had to go for it to get there. And now you've relocated to Dubai. Yep. And you're enjoying like a just enjoying like a chill side of life. I do want to go back to New York because I feel like that experience really ruined a place that I love so much. Was that cause was that like a bit of a spiritual one for you, like New York had your heart. Oh, I really thought I was gonna like get there and like live like my sex in the city dream, and I was literally like in my pajamas every day with my eyeballs hanging out of my head, refusing to leave this apartment. Yeah, because you I was in like prime like New York and I just would not leave my apartment. So I think I'd like to redo that chapter. And actually have like make the memories that you plan making there. Yeah, I still like outside of work like me and my partner had like the most amazing year ever, but it's just I spent 90% of my time working and really stressed. This episode is brought to you by Diet Coke. Okay, stop what you're doing. It's time for a Diet Coke break. So my ideal situation would be: I'm in the park, I've got the dogs, got a cold can of Diet Coke, and my handbag, crack it open, sit on a bench, have a little social media scroll, and then I just feel recharged to basically attack the rest of my day. Because it can't all be about the hustle, can it? We all need a break sometimes, and that's why Diet Coke is teaming up with The Devil Wears Prada 2, one of the most anticipated movies of the year. They're giving you a chance to win the break everybody wants: a trip to New York. All you have to do is scan the QR code on your Diet Coke and upload your receipt for a chance to win. Plus, there are hundreds of daily prizes including cinema tickets, an exclusive Diet Coke, and the Devil Wears Prada 2 merch up for grabs. So scan the QR code on your Diet Coke for a chance to win the break everybody wants. Cheese and Seas apply. See Coke.co.uk . Your partner Josh, you got engaged in where did you? December. December. So that was you ended a shitty year with a great thing. Yeah. Talk to me a little bit about your relationship. How long have you guys been together? Ten years. Wow. Long time. You waited for that ring girl. Yeah, I did. But we met really young. Like I met him when I was like nine. We started going out when we was like nineteen. You've like grown up together. Grown up together and like I I feel like our life has almost been on like pause a little bit because of ob meos. Like I wouldn't have wanted him. He'd done it at the perfect time because at the end of last year I was like I'll never be this stressed again. Like this is the floor. This is I'm never getting this low again. So I think it was perfect timing, but yeah, on paper 10 years is a very long time. But I'd say my relationship is actually one of the things I'm most proud of because it is it has been so hard like seeing like so much success. It's it's been like so high where we've had so much fun together but then there's been lows where it he like wants the same for himself so it's been like it's been hard but I'm really proud that we're like continuing to What do you mean what's the same for himself? Just like he he wants to be as successful, I think when you're in a relationship and the woman is more successful. It it it has its moments. It's quite hard to like maintain because it is just so unusual. And it and everyone comments on it, everyone like thinks it's weird and it's like I I wouldn't have odd muse without him. Like literally I was like this timid little girl working at ASOS and it was him telling me like just do it. Like what's the worst? Like Josh is like so fearless, doesn't give a shit what people think. And I'm used to be the opposite. So he has really like pushed me over the years to just like do it like even what we was talking about on TikTok, like he thinks anyone that would go online is like you couldn't even you shouldn't even concern yourself with anyone like that. So yeah, I like need him for odd mus. Like he's very important to odd muse the same way I am, so I I just don't forget that. I think it's that it's such an interesting topic talking about power, success in relationships men versus women. Because also actually you say it's not as usual, but it's becoming more usual. It's not spoken about. It's spoken about it Yeah, and it it's like a taboo and and you people worry about you know emasculation all this shit. But like you say if you are a you are a secure man who like believes in your partner, like there can be space of both of you to be the stuff. I think that's why um like when we was living in New York especially sometimes it's just nice to get away because it has what I've realized is it is a UK mentality thing. the In U S, there's like wildly successful women and like you know, men holding down the fort and it's more normal there. But yeah, in the UK, people just like I just think they're just a bit weird with the way they think about things, but yeah. I think we are as as a nation we're quite judgy and we're a little bit stuck in the mud, aren't we? Yeah, I also think we're a little bit behind the times in t like we're always like five years behind the US, I feel. Agree. So yeah, but like I'm really proud of my relationship. And Josh is now working for the brand. No, he was in New York, so he wasn't setting up a whole US distribution, but he does he renovates properties. That's what he does. Yeah. How when he was involved in the obmu side of things, how did you guys navigate that? Did you ever fight? It was honestly fine. It was we were working on very different things. He was like way more manual. And I was damage control. I think he knew not to bother me about it when I'm like trying to work out tariffs. You talk about the fact that you rarely get a day off. Are you ever off? I am now. Like this is like yeah, this 2026 is really like my year, guys. Um you're really a go. Before no, never. Never twenty-four hours a day. 24 hours a day, even when like I'm sleeping, I'm thinking about it, I'm waking up at like 5 a.m. checking emails, checking Shopify. How have you managed to now try and put a bit of a structure in place where you have some something that looks like balance? I think 2025 went so far and it's like I actually could sit on my iPad all day and I can't control what is going on around me so like I've really just learnt to just do what I can do and like you know benefit the business how I can benefit the business rather than like trying to take on, you know, external factors that I can't control. What does time off to you look like? What do you like to do when you're not working? I like to do nothing, I like to speak to no one. Sound like me. I just my f Just being a hermit. Yeah. Indoors. Indoors. In the dog with the dogs, like I just I really just don't love talking to people . Do you find the the side of running a business you,'ve got a you know, you say you've got a a big staff now. Do you find that quite are you are you an extrovert or an introvert? I am an introvert, but I force myself to be extroverted. For your for my job. And I do I l I like being both, but like at my core, I'm indoors just on my own. So that's what it's. I think OddMuse has made me like that though, because before I used to be, like before Odd Muse, I was like such a party girl. Like loved going out, couldn't stay in, and now I'm like, I can't wait to get in bed every day. But you must be knacked. Yeah. But yeah, I think it's just like at Old Mews, I'm literally talking to like 30 people a day. Yeah. At the very at the very minimum. So when I get home I'm like silent. And does Josh know that you need quiet time at the end of the day? Is he what's his personality like versus Josh is like he's like my sister always says it right, he's just like the fun in my life. Like he just makes me forget about like work. So yeah, I can yeah, I kind of escape through Josh, I think. Wedding planning? I'm just not bothered about a wedding. I think as well, because of Od Muse, I feel like I've done like the opening of the New York store and like of London Fashion Week, I feel like I've done quite big events that have really stressed me out and I just and I've been in so many situations over the last few years that have really stressed me out. So like I'm watching my sister go through her wedding and I'm like, Is this worth it? Like I had a great day. My sister's wedding will always be like the best weekend of my life. But I'm like, why do people do this? This is stressful. Like when my sister just did the registry, like little press But I think there is a way of doing something maybe in between Yeah, I wasn't turning just like letting him do a speech at my thirtieth and then just like eloping I don't know. We don't know. But if if we could tomorrow and wouldn't upset family I think we'd elope. It's all just very political, isn't it? Yeah. Yes to keep a lot of people happy in a wedding. Talking of family, you've spoken online about the impact obviously your success has had on your parents' life. Yeah. You paid off their mortgage, buying them a car. That that must be like core moments Yeah. I think I've really like relaxed now since I paid their mortgage. Like that was like a big stress in my life. What cause you wanted to do it so much? I really wanted to do it. Um and I I feel like I measure my success in like what I can do for my family. So like I remember I bought my mum and dad a car before I even moved out and I was like really stressed to buy them this Range Rover because my dad's always wanted a Range Rover and yeah I, just really might measure my success how much I can help them and I feel like the mortgage was like really it. Like that is like a whole retirement plan for them and they can just never they really don't have to worry about anything else now that their mortgage is paid off. So yeah. I love like seeing my dad like he barely works anymore. Like he's home at 2 PM every day and that's for me is like success because without odd muse like he would still be waking up every day at four four AM , coming in at seven PM so I like to see my parents living a slower life now. But it's such an amazing thing because not everyone who like, you know, is hugely successful does that or feels that way. And that really surprises me. Yeah, it's supposed to that point that would not be a priority. What is it? What is it about the way you grew up that you you knew that that was something that was so important to you? I think it's because as I've got older, my mum and dad have really always spoke about how like this time in our life where we like lost everything and we had no money and we like lost our house and I'm like I don't remember any of that. Like I just remember just having like so much fun and just loving life and you know, going going on like little holidays and caravan holidays or whatever we could do within our budget. I never for a second like thought there was ever this time in our life. Yeah. So yeah, I think I think it's that because I'm so grateful that I was never like affected by anything that they were . I feel like if you know, your parents could 'cause imagine going through that, like I'm quite if I'm stressed like you know about it. Yeah. And I feel like I never felt that from my parents. So I think I think I just really appreciate them a lot. So yeah. When you were you know in your early twenties and you' workreing at ASOS, and you're like, I I''mm g gonnaonna quit, start this brand, I'm gonna put all my savings in. What was the reaction from family? Were they supportive? I mean, my when I was younger, like my parents always never knew what I was gonna do or say. So, like the day I started OddMuse I rem the day I just decided I was gonna quit my job and start my start Odd Muse, I dismantled my bed in my bedroom and put it on the driveway and went to IKEA and put a desk up and just sat there like I'm quit my job and I'm launching a business. So they were like, okay. Here we go. Yeah. Um my mum begged me not to quit. She was like, quit in January, get Christmas out of the way. It was August at the time. And I'm like, no, 'cause I know, you know, how hard I have to work at ASOS. I wouldn't I wouldn't juggle both, all or nothing. And also like I just thought, I'll get another job. I'm not unemployable. I'm gonna get another job if if if this doesn't work out. So Yeah. Do they is it hard for them to fathom your success? Yeah. Like whenever I'll when I told them about New York store like terrified, uh every time Josh will see my parents, they were always saying to Josh like her outgoings must be huge. Like they don't understand like the the level odd news now is. But um Are they worried that you're like spending too much and just gonna five years in you know, we've maintained these stores, we've maintained this big team, they are kinda like okay, she must know what she's doing. But yeah, I definitely like frighten them when I'm like, I'm doing this New York store, I'm doing this London store, like no investors, like you know, if it all crash and burns, they'll take my house, but you know you've got yours, it's paid off. Yeah, don't worry. Your your n your name's on yours. You you're alright . If the Sunday Times reported in twenty twenty four that Ob Muse had sales of 22.5 million pounds. That's crazy. Yeah. What does like how does that number even feel like to hear? Because they were talking like this is like the big leagues. Yeah. It's just big time. Yeah. It's quite mental. I don't actually think about it too much. Do you? I'm just like running. I'm just going. You're just on the treadmill, just on the fucking I'm just like onto the next, onto the next. Um Do you ever have moments? Has there ever been a moment when you sort of like a sudden catches you like off guard and you have this sudden like reflection of like what you've grown? I mean today for example I haven't been in London for a few months and just going to the Nibon Street store. I'm like, I have a house on Nibon Street, like a three old store on Bond Street. It's pretty cool. And you're like, I did this. Yeah. I mean it's insane. Yeah. Can I ask a question, like a more businessy question? Do those having those stores, like the Bond Street store, does I mean it must be or you wouldn't do it? Do they financially like are they worth it? Yeah. Yeah. They are. They are. Um people always go, Oh, in shopping in person's dead, like if you put you open there's no point getting a shop. It's that But that's again like I always like to do things a little bit against the grainy business. So we launched over COVID when people told us not to. We went into retail when everyone was like COVID, you know, taught us that online is amazing. It in stores never gonna be online. There's so many people that are launching e-commerce brands now, the fact that you could come to my store and experience the brand in real life, it try things on it is credible. And I get what people say, like a lot of people told me, your New York store will just break even, it'll be this amazing marketing piece. And it was. I got Nordstroms through there. I got some really good partners through there. But it does really well and it's really profitable as well. So I think you can have both. I think there's a lot of old fashioned How do you like your stores to be run? What's what's what's the um culture? Or do you not have any weird you just want the staff to be friendly in a few? I just want the staff to be friendly, I want people to just like get the same, you know, I feel like at OddMuse we like to like entertain people with like our content. Mm. So I feel like the stores just need to be like a fun time and also an opportunity for you to like obviously see and feel the product. Um so yeah, I'm not too militant. And you've got bridal area in the Bond Street store. Yeah, we've got bridal suite. Did that was that off the back of your sister's wedding? Because you they they No, so we launched bridesmaids through my sister's wedding. Bridesmaids. Um now it's actually b bridridalal.. It's actually So we're slowly getting into it. But it's like twenty percent of the business. So like it was twenty percent of that twenty two million, yeah. Twenty percent was bridal. Yes. And we're not even like even scratching the surface doing actual like wedding dresses yet. So it's more like the dress that a girl would wear to her like register office or Hindus. Yeah. So that I mean it's big business across the board, isn't it? Weddings, that's like I'm coming back as a wedding. Yeah and I do yeah I do like it because I always say I like to be part of their everyday but also part of their special day. Yeah. So we do like the bridal the bridal department. Um a fun question from me that I gonna ask is kind of gross but like what is like what's one of your favourite purchases today because you must be taking some kind of decent salary now. I know you obviously very sensible with your money but is there something you wanted like a carve or a piece of jewelry or wait have you got the mini AP? Yeah. Yeah. I'd say it's that. That is my dream watch. The mini O is it called a mini Royal Royal? Yeah. This is what this is the watch that all the fucking cool bitches are wearing. And I've had this for a year and a half. So you were ahead before. I had it before Hayley Bieber. That is a I was at the launch event. I put my name down and I got it. That's a serious watch, yeah. Yeah. That's very, very I'd say that I wasn't actually I don't know, I was thinking what can I say for that, but yeah, this is That's very special. This is really, really special. Because it's like very my style. It's gorgeous. Yes. Yeah, that's it. What about travel? Yours traveling style, hotels. Is it nice just being able to just sort of like if you want something you can just get it? I think it's nice when you can like do that with other people and experience it. Like me and Josh have done the coolest things because of ObMuse. Like me and my family have done the coolest things like Christmas and So yeah, it's nice in that respect. Um you can do like things together and make memories. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, that's pretty cool. But the watch is cool as well. The watch is fucking cool. And the dogs on the jet. Yeah. So y you you took the dogs by private jet to New York with the K nice. Well it was that yeah, it was actually um you basically split the cost of a private jet with like twelve other dog owners and their dogs. But th the dogs don't have a seat, so like we're all sitting there in our seat and the dogs are just everywhere on the floor. And these can be as big as a dog as you like. So I was Great Dane. There was like a cane corso behind me on the sofa. Like it was quite and how did they manage like the different personalities? What if like a dog fight broke out over at the Atlantic? Yeah, honestly people have had so many questions about that. Like how are they peeing? Like what are they doing? But I don't know. Like I think a couple like the cake also had a muzzle on just in case it got a bit feisty. Um but uh or like people were scared but no it worked. I mean I was like the only like non-regular doing we just sort of like flying back and forth to New York with their dog. Like I did it just to like move there. Just to get I could not put my dog in cargo 'cause he'd probably just die. Like no way. It'd just scream and just wouldn't like it. But yeah. So we told our listeners that you were coming in, Amy, and we were like, right, entrepreneur, business owner, um and basically asked them what uh they wanted your advice on. So can I hit you with some questions to see what you've got for them. Let's see. When do you know it's time to quit a job and move on? I don't know if the grass is greener. I think weighing out the risk of like what is actually gonna happen if you quit your job because you are employable, you do have your own skills , like don't think that you rely so much on the company that you work for. And I would even say that to like anyone who works for me, like do you know what I mean? Like you are your own person. So yeah, that's what I'd say . So basically have a bit of faith in your own ability to do something. And also I think the the other half of that question is you do need to be like so obsessed with your idea and really think that you're onto something like so delirious with it. Yeah, you have to be like, yeah, almost delirious about it. How do you approach difficult conversations of people God, this is not a question for me . I'm a terrible manager. I'm a terrible manager. Are you do you delegate that to someone else? Now I do, yeah. Yeah. I'm terrible. I don't like it. I d I just oh I feel like I'm like ruining people's lives. Okay. Just by giving them a bit of feedback. So you that's not your area. So maybe if you're not good at it and you can delegate a conversation to someone else. I mean, yeah, I mean part of it is just making sure like you're really getting it right with the people that come into the business. Like I have a lot of people in my team that you literally like can just close your eyes and they're just yeah. But you must have had people come and go that you've been like, that was a mistake. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah. So it's uh hiring is so hard and but yeah it just I hate people issues and I just I'm not good at managing people. I don't like to confront people. I'm like literally like shaking just going into a conversation and I'm supposed to be. That surprises me. Oh no. You just that's not your area of growth. Oh, I'd just like everyone to be happy. You were looking for a CEO at one point, weren't you? Yeah, so I am always still looking, but I think since having my managing director, I've just appointed a brand director and I'm just like them two are just collectively changing my life. So yeah. I can I can give my take on that. You should get Grace Beverly on the pod for that question. She is very people 'cause sh I yeah, she she seems like she's way better at that stuff than that. I feel like I'm not that professional, so I can't get into it. I feel like with people in my team the way I and I don't run a business but I well I mean I run businesses. She does. It's like going into the conversation , knowing what you want out of it. So what was the outcome of the thing? You want someone to you wanna get rid of them or you wanna inspire them or you wanna like you wanna motivate them that they're stuck you have to always I think know what you want at the back end of the conversation. I don't love going into conversations not knowing how someone's gonna react. Like it just makes you feel uneasy. Like I just don't like it. You've got everyone's got their strengths. That's yeah, not what you like doing. Yep. I can't even like order a Chinese, honestly. Like I'm not I'm not telling someone that yeah. How do you deal with like a boardroom situation if you're doing finance stuff or you're or or do you not have to really deal with that? I just have like a very like dad like relationship with my finance director. Like I will like if I'm going through a tough time I'm calling him crying, like we're not doing professional stuff. So you I think I need I need people in my like senior team that, you know, want to be a bit off piece and unprofessional because I am here, there, everywhere. You don't want all the corporate jargon bullshit. No. No. I can't do it. Like I was only in the working world for about a year and a half. Don't know it. It's the truth. I want to go live my business and get recognition, but I want to remain anonymous. Is this possible or is a personal brand important? I don't really know because it's kind of what you said earlier, like there's a lot of people doing it now. So it's like it especially in the early stages, like everyone's showing you like the early stages and it seems people are more keen when the actual business is successful. They want to get straight to the point now . So I don't think it is actually essential. It's nice to have a face of the brand, whether that's just someone you're using on your socials a lot or someone who's like doing all your like website imagery. It's nice to like be consistent with a face. It doesn't have to be a founder. It can be just it can be someone whether it's a Exactly. It can be someone that you send out into the street with a microphone on your TikTok account or something like that. Um but no, I don't think you need to like be front facing if you don't want to. I'm a one woman media company. I get loads of work but I need to bring someone on to help with the workload. What were your first hires you made and what would you recommend starting with to grow a small business? I think your first hire just needs to be an assistant. So like my first hire was like a brand assistant and I was very open in the job description, like we're in we're a start up brand, you're gonna be sending orders out in the afternoon, doing returns, customer service emails, you might even send out a marketing email, you might do a shoot with me. You just need an assistant. You just needed a second pair of hands. A hundred percent. And I think you just need to be really open. Startups are exciting to work for, you can do a bit of everything. I've got girls that have been with me for five years and their jobs are actually like normal now and they're doing one thing, but there was a time where there was just like helping me with like literally everything. So I don't think it's a bad sell to say to someone, I'm a start up, I don't actually know where this role is going, but you can do a bit of everything and tell me what you want out of it. Yeah, that's that's that is really good advice. I've always wanted to be moved to New York for work. Do you have any tips on moving abroad? Did you find did you get homesick at all? Well I was travelling back once a month if I'm at home. You were quite connected, so yeah. Um so no, I didn't get too homesick. But I would say just try it for three months. Like don't go you don't have to go all in, just try it or even try it for like two weeks, three weeks. You gotta see if it will work first and you gotta get the bug for it. But yeah. So just take the jump. Take the jump for like a week or two. See how it feels. I've been saving for a handbag , but I'm not sure if it's a good investment. Do you believe I feel like we could collectively answer this. Okay, so here's my take. Well I was finished to set the question. Do do you think it's a good im what do you think is a good investment for your wardrobe. So the way I look at it, because I've had this debate with my finance team many times, and I spotted your Birkin on the way in . I mean some handbags, like Birkins, appreciate. But you're only gonna realise that investment if you sell it. Yeah. I don't buy my bags to sell. No. And I I I don't and I don't buy and I I I you know I make this joke on my Instagram, I make this joke on my with my accountant. It's an investment. I don't think clothing I think if shit hit the fan you could sell it, right? So but yeah and you're not you might not get everything back. But you could I could I could I could raise some cash overnight, which is a quite nice to know. Yeah. Especially when the world is so it's nice to have like a diverse around A lot of my bags I've thought about for I've got a few impulse ones, but and I've thought about them for a long time. Yeah. And I like know of them before I'm going into the store. And my mum always says a pound aware, but I don't know if you'll get that that I'm what I'll say is with those sort of things like my black Birkin, if I broke down cost per wear, I mean that bag I had probably used it every yeah. Because yours are thirty five as well. Yeah. So I think if you're gonna blow the bank on a bag, like you say, think about it. What do what do you don't go out for like a white elephant? Get the thing you're gonna use, and you will then realise that it it's then it's not blowing money up the wall. Yeah. Like it's like you'll get joy from it. And and and yeah, I think some things that you say s can be sold if you needed to get some money, some jewellery things, but also the master self honesty. Whoever you are, you probably work really hard. Just go for it. You're clearly thinking about it. Like, just do it. Just get the bag. Any any purchase regrets . You have bought and think, why the fuck did I buy that? I I think my biggest waste of money, but I actually don't I s I don't regret it in my current financial is cars. Yeah, I was gonna say that. They're such a waste of money. Yeah, they are. It's in I actually feel sick. The G-Wagons brought me so much joy and it was such a dream car for me that I don't regret it. But they the minute you sit in it, you you might have to shit money onto the pavement. Yeah. Like they are just a luxury. Like and it's no - And they don't last forever like a bag. No, they do not, especially when I'm driving. I hand it back, they're like, fucking hell, where have you been? Um I'm a founder and lucky enough to start investing in other businesses, what's one thing you look at before investing? Do you invest? No . Do you invest in yourself? I was doing another one. No, I do want to start, but yeah, I wouldn't be able to do it your money goes back into ob mood. Yeah. I don't know whether to double the size of my business but lose control or keep it as it is and own a hundred percent forever. No one can tell you what to do in that situation. there's positive and negatives of both. Yeah, there's positives and negatives of both a hundred percent. But what I would say is the offer's always gonna feel so shiny and amazing, and you're always gonna like want to take it to someone um like uh at the end of last year I fully said to my finance director, like, let's go out and get some offers because not even that I don't want to do it anymore, I was like I can't do this anymore. Like I am not I'm doing this brand a disservice, like there's someone better than me for what I'm for for this role. And he just said to me in this mindset, no, like this is the worst time, like you're not thinking straight, like it's not, it's not a good time, and I'm just glad I listen to him because you might have done it someone would have panic. Pan someone would have pounced on that vulnerability. And then now you'd be so I'm guessing if you're like you have to be so sure. So if you're thinking about it, it's not the right time. How do you like you like odd music like your baby and like you just said, like you were like, I feel like I was doing the business of disservice? How do you maintain the line between like over-personalizing it and be and keeping that line where it's like it's business. I think I just had to really prioritise just like enjoying my personal life, finding myself again, finding my hobbies again to realise that it's just work, we're not saving lives is like my new motto. Like I'm lit address, we're not saving lives. Yeah. That's how I kinda do it now. But I have a very different approach to it now, but up until like last year I was like a maniac with it. Is it true you turnt down ASOS? Yeah. What was the the thought process behind that? Which must be mental. When you worked at ASOS, they've come. When I worked there, I knew it was a thing that brands wouldn't work with us because in the industry, brands like Harrod, Selfridges, and Neta Porte would never buy you if you was on ASOS. Because it puts you in a different way. But also like I'm looking I'm they're they're pitching me on it and I'm like looking on their new in page and like ASOS designer like ripping off ObMuse and I'm like, guys I'm like your designs especially I mean you know more than me but I'm just thinking what I've seen anything to the and what's the name of the dress, the sculpted dress that goes out like in an A shape like like the the probably MIDI dressy dress . That must be the most ripped off design on the internet . Yeah. There's a lot of there's a lot of like brands that copy it. There's a lot of brands that like AI a different face onto my body and try and sell it. Like it it is insane. It's like a whole thing. But and how do you d how do you deal with that? Because there's a there is a legalities line but also there's like it there's some things you just can't do anything about. We can't do anything about it, no. We don't even give it the airtime anymore. You just we just stand on business. People prefer odd mus . And it's okay. And the sales show. Yeah. Before I let you go today, well gonna ask you who you think I should on the guest list, who would you like me to have who do you think I should have in the clubhouse next? Well I did say Grace Beverly to answer like daily crazy business questions, the really professional ones. Because she gets really hella into the case. Yeah, and also she's got a entirely different story to me, so like she's like having such a good experience with investors. So you're like displays on scale. Yep. I'd love to have Grace on, put Grace on the list. And who's great? Should we ban ? Oh. There's the hard question . Everyone struggles with this question. Should we ban Trump because he's been ruining your Yeah, but didn't someone already say that? But I have I like own that answer more, like ban Trump. Well you've got a personal I've got a personal beef with him. I know a lot of people do. Yes. But yeah, Trump, you ain't coming in. Done. Amy, it's been an absolute pleasure. I think your story's incredible. You're such an inspiration. You're so down to earth with it. I think what you've achieved and how kind of just like the humbleness of you and your your nature, your way about it is very refreshing, inspiring. Thank you. And I hope that's inspired. Like com,ments, subcribe, and we'll see you next week. Amy everyone! Hello, it's Jamie Lang here. And Sophie Leng, and we have just had a baby. Yeah, we have. So it turns out the biggest change isn't just having a baby, by the way. No, it's what it does to us. Yeah, the dynamic shifts. You're tired, you're emotional, you're slightly unhinged. Speak for yourself, so I am, but you are more so. Okay, welcome to our new show, Newly Parents. We're talking wins, we're talking arguments, we're talking everything. Oh yeah. This is Newly Parents. It's out right now, guys. Wherever you watch or listen to your pod cast.