Friendship and Professional Dynamics with Luanna

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Or visit Trimfia Radio. com All news Sundays at night exclusively on Agamc amc plus. I ' them vampireless dog. I'm a rock star now. I'm a little killer . I'm a hunter. From Anne Rice's Immortal Universe comes what Vulture calls the most momentous event in fictional rock history. I wasn't afraid I was lungs. I want millions . It's my dera . Anne Brice is the Vampireless Dot, all new Sundays at nine exclusively on AMC and AMC plus stream now. This episode is brought to you by Sweet Greens. The day doesn't ask for permission. Lunch window? Gone before you saw it coming. You deserve a break that actually satisfies. Sweet Greens new wraps have got you. Real ingredients, zero shortcuts. Everything you love in one hand. Think green goddess chicken, garlic aioli, crumbled bacon, corn salsa, forty grams of protein. Made to keep up with whatever comes next. New sweet green wraps hit different order now at order dot sweetreen dot com My audience now probably know you from Celebsko dating . Some might know you from the girl band that was named Blush . Who has ever brought this up and I love you You went from the band to children's TV, what's it look like? It's so cringe. So I did a photo shoot, right? But he rang me up and he was like, Is that an and I was like, Yes. Anyway I have had these postcards every week for months. If I give you a chance, one shoot, will you stop sending me these ruddy postcards? On such a positive note, I hate to do such a gear chance. Take it down. Let's talk to Roma. That's time, we were riding high, like say, decade of kids TV, but some of that time was darkened with a pretty horrendous relationship. Very controlling, psychologically abusive. Was life changing in that I found myself in my early twenties having a spectacular mental breakdown. Meltdown day as I affectionally call it, probably was the worst, best day of my life in a weird way because it was the day everything changed for the worst and for the better . This part of the podcast is brought to you by Tom Bohler who have teamed up with the charity breast cancer now. Dolls we, all know should be checking our breasts. We hear it all the time. But here's the thing, one in ten people have never checked and it's never about not caring. It's just that life gets busy or it feels a bit awkward or it's just easy to put off. And that's exactly why Tombola has partnered with the charity breast cancer now. Tombola's whole community is built on people chatting and checking in with each other every day, making it the perfect place to start these conversations . Because often the little check ins, a casual chat, a have you checked message that could make the biggest difference. Olivia's house is always open for intimate, nothing off the table conversations , so join me and a very special guest for as live episode next week as we take those chats and turn them into something that actually matters. And if you're not quite sure what you should be looking for, don't worry, just head to the Tom Bowler and Breast Cancer Now Hub. It's filled with a handy infographic on what to look out for and a whole lot of information and content. And while you're there, send it to a friend , or your group chat and give them a little nudge to encourage each other to check. Hi Joles, welcome back to Olivia's house. My guest in my house today is a TV presenter. She's therapist, podcast host, author, just an actual legend. It's Anna Willi amson . Oh babes. Look, right back at you. I mean, I can't move from seeing you. And you know what? I'm sorry, sorry. I know it's fine. And Liv I am firstly, this is fabulous. Thank you. Feels like I need a sort of rum and coke or something whilst we're here. We can provide. Well, you know, would you more exciting? Well I'm keeping it myself professional, but you know what? I think the wheels can come off, why not? We'll be here all day. We've been yapping so much before we even started rolling that my producer Tom was like, should we hit record and actually get some of this on the pod rather than you just having a full on chat? About everything and all the people we know . So this is why honestly I'm so genuinely no bullshit. I'm so happy to be here because we have crossed over so many times but never actually properly sat down and chewed the card and it's nice. And also I going' tom say this , I'm going to start off your pod by saying it's so nice to see good, talented people doing great things. I just think in this world and in this industry in particular we're working we're in a funny old place . Everyone likes to throw bullshit and hates around . I love seeing good people do good things and women supporting women. So well done you for being everywhere . Long may it continue . Thank you very much. That's very kind. I mean it. Well, yes, you're right. We have like crossed paths many times in kind of different universes. We have mutual friends. But there's so much to get into if I do it, we have this little format point that I asked my guests if there's something that like you' tod leave at the house door . Something you want to you don't want to bring into the room today. Just like leave it in life . I know I'm sure you're going to give me a great one. I've got a feeling. Anna, what would you like to leave at the door? I feel this is a little niche , but you know what? You are now my therapist today. Okay, I'd like to hear that . I would like to leave at the door house renovations . I am nearly eighteen months in to my house renovation, which would have should have been six months. It's a permanent piss take that people have of me. I have heard the narrative. Louisa likes to take the piss to invite you. Is there a particular reason why it's taking so long? Well , there is actually a fairly plausible reason, not just being disorganized. Okay , but we chose to buy a listed house. Oh gosh. In a conservation area. Oh my gosh. And we bought it just before COVID. Wow. So yeah. We got planning permission through and then COVID hit and then everyone decided to not do anything . Oh, I had a baby, another baby in that time as well. And then you sort of just get used to living in muck and we had the delightful red like nineteen eighties red carpet, you know, that you sort of see in a pub or something . And then we finally and then my husband and I were tinger andr frowning going, then building costs went up again, loads. And then it's like, oh, this is costing a bloody fault chain on paper. Is he worth it? Do we sidestep? Then we realized we don't like anything. See, I'm just going to waffle it right now. So then we were like, We needed to do it because basically when I realized that I tried to flush a turd and the whole plumbing broke and flooded the bathroom downstairs I was like yeah and then you could hear the clanking pipes and the Lecky was like doing those sort of sparky so we're talking like it had to be done. You had to gut it very exactly . No one would have bought that. I mean, there's no, there's no right move in this world that would have living you're living in this a knack and dish . And then you're just rocking up, hosting tele, hosting podcasts, but you're going back to like a turblock toilet and it's this is or the granny pad, as I affectionately have named it. But I think we're starting to see the fruits of all of the labour of which has not been mine. But as we have said, why I'm not leaving the Renault at the door is because yeah, it has definitely challenged our relationship. I'd say we are now weirdly stronger than ever having gone through that process , but we will never have any money ever again . That was a good one. That was a good leave at the door. And I think a lot of people listening is going to relate because yeah, like you say, it would make a break you won't it doing that kind of shit in a relationship. There's definitely been some points where we have I know both felt quite penned in thinking we sort of hate each other we now hate on this we hate the project we've taken on but neith,er of us can now sell this because it's now a shell . So we need to we need to get through this somehow together. We are so trapped here. We're trapped. We're trapped. And now we're at a point and a friend of mine the other day, she's a financial advisor. It was quite interesting. We come from two different perspectives on relationships. She comes from the financial point of view and come from a relationship point of view. And she's like, Even if you half like each other, make your marriage work because the costs are great. And you know what , on that one with the house , it's an expensive one. So we are we're in there live. . Anna, your law is pretty unmatched when I was researching research ing you , I think that most people listen to this podcast, I imagine I'm generalizing my audience now probably know you from Celebsko dating . But some might know you from the girl band that was named Blush . This rocked my fucking world. I could categorically say not one of your listmen. You don't Guys, if you were a blush fan, you need to get in touch because there has to be at least one of you was. No one live ever. And all the work I do know I've ever brought this up and I love it. Not properly. No. I 've kept this beautifully buried, but I'm happy to talk about it. I mean, just give me give me a headline on it. It was a girl band . You were put together . It was quite short lived. Yeah We did what a year a year and a half. Yeah, oh, you've done well with research. Yeah. So I was well done, well done . So I was sixteen . You're younger. Yeah, when I did it. And I've got a prime age to fancy about being a girl band as well. And it was and it was because the Spice Girls had just launched it. So it was ninety six girl band, boy band fever. Right. And it was crazy. Yeah. And I got into this girl band by complete chance . I happened to babysit for the guy from the record company , like not even joking. And I asked if I could borrow his studio in his house to practice for a singing exam. I'm not even joking. I was like, do my GCSEs. And then he was like, Oh, do you sing? And I was like, yeah, a little bit. And then's like, I putting together a new girl band because it was like everybody wanted shitlades of go bands. So I sort of got in by default really and then it was quite you know, I look back on it now and I'm forty four now and it still feels like yesterday and it was probably I would say the last hurrah of that era that late nineties, early nineties of before social media like, before everyone had phones really or anything, where you did what I would call you were on kind of the gravy train. You know, you were doing like the way you got your fan base was doing schools tours, student union tours. You went on all the TV shows. There were so many kids TV shows. And you'd go on, you'd perform your little song, you'd have a little, you know, smash hits, all those Saturday morning shows that would just go one after another, which some of which you hosted and worked on. But there was like there was so much TV, racing stuff that you could do. Get your name out there . And it was such a great time because it was that's where I sort of met a lot of my peers and you'll know them as well, but still in this industry like Holly Willoughby, Fern Cotton, Angelic Bell, they all came up through that. Everyone, Stephen Mohohn, all started at the same time . They weren't in bands to be fair . I mean, of course I had to go and see that one. I want to see Steven Mohammed in the band. Although yeah, I mean I'd love it, right? But what makes me laugh is why I just love I've been in this industry longer than I haven't, basically that's like all I've ever known. But it was one of one of our our best gigs we ever did in Blush was we were we supported five at the Birmingham AC and then fast forward just over twenty years and then I get abs from five sitting opposite me on celebs go dating wanting a dating coach. It was like this is so weird. Isn't life just mental? Like actually mental when you really think about it. It's why it sounds really cheesy but, I just love life and the unpredictability of it. And I really do just try and live in the present. And someone taught me years ago back in the days, you know, never piss anyone off on the way up because you'll need him on the way down And it's so true and the more and more people that I hope I've never done that, but it is so true and like moving through this industry for like twenty seven years I've been in it. You know, telebroadcasting, podcasting now. That's obviously a new thing. I've been in it for a long time as well doing that. And it's so true, there is no coincidence that the people who are still here are not saying me by that way but at that point, are the ones who have stayed true and stayed quite humble. And you'll know that. You have a really good reputation in this industry. You do, but you do. And everyone, and I think be completely real with you . I know you're a good egg because people that I really know and like and respect on and off screen speak really highly of you. So I think and not that I know I don't know you very well, but I'm thinking, well, if you trust them, I trust them because I know them. And I'm like, well, of course you're a good egg and I haven't. I've never heard anything bad about you. Everyone says how professional you are, how on time you are, you know, and but to my point on that, word gets run very quickly . And word gets run very quickly when you're a dickhead as well. Yeah . So yeah, I think and likewise, but yeah, I mean I say this I say this as well to people and they ask me for advice, like Love Island and stuff. There are people in Love Island who were runners who were giving us getting us our dinner and changing our mic batteries who are now like key players at development and ITV. So it's like people and they will remember you. And I talked to people that worked on Love Island when I was on it and they were runners or researchers who are now producers, series producers, executive producers. And yeah, they remember the people that are still fucking arholses. Why don't forget? People do not forget. And as you say, very quickly, they will be in that position where the power can change and the hierarchy. And actually, I've got a real life experience of that. One of the work experience runners on my kids show I did for IT is now an executive producer on one of my TV shows. Yeah. And is, you know, and also I always, you know, I have loads of conversations with people about stuff like this in our industry and I think there was a culture and I won't name any names. There was a culture at a time where there were some real arseholes were allowed to exist. I think the culture is changing and I think where people aren't standing for that shit anymore. And they say you won't get booked, you won't get called. And also the other thing I was thinking is like what we do is such a privilege. It's so much fun . How are you going to make that unenjoyable for everyone else? Yeah. Like we're not like on the front line, we're not saving lives. We are making like, you know, you do real stuff you're on the off screen, but it's entertainment. I do end a lot of entertainment stuff. And it's like, so why would you turn up to a photo shoot or a TV and be an artist? Bad energy . Because also it must be so much more hard work for you to be an arsele day long than just we're doing something that's really fun that loads of people would like to do. Exactly. And I think something happens to some people along the line where I think possibly they lose their humility around it and it becomes it just becomes a bit blasse for them. They forget that grit and that determination that existed at the beginning. And I look back now to the amount of times I had nose and Christ I've had hundreds and hundreds of nose. And actually yeah, also to your point back in the day, you know, back in the when I came out of the girl band and I went into Telly into Kids Telly. I mean, the nose were coming thick and fast. you Because went from the band to children's TV . You were the one like ringing up, were you writing letters? How did you approach trying to audition yourself for kids TV? Like back then, what was it, what was it look like? So I see you've done your research well . So came out the girl band . I've never really talked about this. It's actually really lovely to go back and talk about this. Now, particularly as being a therapist and a life coach, now I'm, constantly making people go back and drag up. I mean, you're lucky Liv. I mean, on a different show, I'd be getting deep diving in on you, baby. Oh my god, we did another day. So I came out of the girl band when I was seventeen and a half and to be honest, I hadn't stopped for eighteen months and that isn't like but as you say, you know, world smallest violin, it was an amazing experience but also I think you're right in that it was a different time where so much bad stuff got rushed under the carpet. I'm not going to sugar coat it. It was there was a lot of misogyny. There was a lot of potential in appropriate behavior, you know, power dynamics around that. Honestly, nothing of any personal experience for me, thank God, but proximity to a lot of shady . Definitely. I mean, there was you'd always hear about the casting couch , you know , that's it coming into my office type vibes . Never to me, thankfully, but I think I was only ever a side step away from this to that, but I've always been quite headstrong . I've always been quite independent and I like to think quite humble as well. But I put that down to my parents. My parents are very good parents , the right level of support, but also don't think your shit don't stink . Yeah . So I was and be perfectly honest, my parents weren't particularly pleased with how the bam was going. I think they were starting to question the management side of it. Yeah. I think being a headstrong seventeen and a half year old girl I was like, Oh , yeah, I'm invisible , but they were right . They didn't ask me to leave and they didn't, you know, make me leave, but it definitely I listened to them. Yeah, I listen to them. And actually what was also part of it, I got a boyfriend at the time and I wanted to see my boyfriend and suddenly I wasn't allowed to see my boyfriend because nobody knows you can't your b seeoyfriend, but we had a whole diary full of things, you know, you can't just sack it off. So it taught me so much about consistency teamwork always showing up. We know this. Do you never have a sick day? You know, I mean, I can be half dead and I'm still on that sl abs d goating couch because if I'm not there, they've got a massive gap in the world shooting schedule. It just doesn't work. You just got to suck it up while I and that is the other side of what we do for you . Sure, there's lots of lovely things, but I'd say it's ninety percent brilliant . Let's coast and have a wonderful old time and get paid pretty decent money for it . But then it's the ten percent where the shit really does hit the fan. When you need to turn up, turn it on and execute your job in one take, that's where you get paid your money. And it's the but the bit that I think that can and why some people in this industry end up in poor mental health or other things that go on is because the part that can eat away a little bit at you is when you have things going on in your life , but b youook'reed to be Anna, your therapist, dating coach. I'm booked to be Olivia Atwood, you know, either I'm out doing journalistic things or I'm presenting. So it doesn't matter that I'm going for a breakup. They didn't book like Moni Myrtles turn up withed a sour puss face. Do you know what I mean? When you have to dig into another gear and be like, that is tough. It's tough. And that's why I don't at all underestimate for you and not wishing to just flip this onto you and blow smoke up your ass for the third time today . But I guess because I do see, I do feel a bit of an old granny, but in a good way, a veteran for because I see that. I see it from a therapeutic perspective. I see it from a PR perspective and a career and being a woman in this industry is exactly that. You've been going through a breakup , your all the speculation around new relationships. You're having to carry that and all it takes as well and I, would imagine , is as much as you try and filter out the noise, you filter out the dickhead trolls, you know, everyone wants to have a go. Everyone seems to love doing in this world, which is a shame. And it's happened to me on a couple of occasions, where I filter out I it don',t listen to it. I don't get a lot of it, which is useful . But also you can't without willy waving when the more successful you get, not everyone's going to like you and you just have to accept that. But there have been times my life in when I have seen a DM at the wrong time when I've had a bad day when I perhaps had an argument with my husband, or my kids have told me they hate me and I'm the worst mom in the world because I've tried to instill a boundary or something difficult has happened in my day or my parents have been unwell or something where I am feeling a bit personally quite fragile and then someone will have a pop at you. You know, and I have found myself on those odd occasions standing in my kitchen crying my eyes out and going, why have I invited this shit into my life ? All I try and do is be a good person and show up . And yeah, and yeah, I've invited this in. So I think to your point there, but yeah, if you're booked to do your job and then the next day you have to show up, you have to swallow that. You have to mask it. You have to go through your day thinking, there's probably people behind these cameras thinking certain things about me and having WhatsApp chats about me, but I'm going to have to still keep calm and carry on. And I think it's a very unique perspective that only a few people will ever understand. But it's one that in an ideal world, I would love more people to understand and appreciate. But people won't because they see it. It's the fame game, lots of money, lots of privilege, and they won't. But to your point on how I got into the telecycle things, so I left the girl band and wanted to be seen my boyfriend. You know, so that was quite nice. I could kind of conduct a kind of a normal relationship. But then I'd realize I really enjoyed telling. Yeah, kids. And I'd been on so much kids telly performing with the band. Right, right. And so I thought, Oh, how did I go about this then? So this is what it's actually really cringe, but I kind of love it and I kind of instill this in my kids the hustler. You're a hustler. I know you're a hustler. I'm a hustler. Yeah. The kill is always more exciting than the actual execution . And I'm still that person the kill every time. So I was like, What do I do? So the first thing I did and I thought, Oh, CBC, this seems like a thing. Yeah, right. Do I know anyone in CBC? No. So do you remember how do I call me? One nine two whatever it was, director for inquiries. They li'vere you call up and ask for another phone number. Yeah. Literally did that one A it used to be . So I literally rang off and I was like, Hello, can I have the phone number for children's BVC please? So got the phone number , rang up children's BBC, as you do, you get through to the front desk. Hi, can I speak to you? Which wouldn't even there wouldn't be a line now to even call. I didn't even have a name Liv. Didn't even have a name , but then I used to wise up to it and they put all the credits on all the tele shows and you get who's the boss and then the last credit. That's the person. That's the one who's doing the hiring the firing. And it literally honestly went from there. Like they were like, Oh, you must need the children D's UP epartment got through some random on the phone . Hi, can I speak to the controller of please CB C? Oh, you must mean whatever it was Nigel Picard at the time or whoever. He's not in at the moment. I wasn't got a name though. Yeah, and it sort of started from there. So then I used to spam . So this again was, I don't think I even had an email address even still at this point . I used oh god, it's so great I don't know why you know Denise Welch. Yeah I like bonding with Denise over this years ago . So you know like local press photography. It's just like popping out from behind a tree or like you know like those really cheesy like trees a photo shoot but it's like so budget like yeah sitting on a park bench it's like there's an oak tree and I'm just gonna pop out from behind it , just sitting on a step, you know, just jinking, just yell, just so cringe. So I did a photo shoot, right? Got my little pickies . Denise could really relate to this by the way. That's why we laughed about it . And then I got these like self laminating postcards from snappy snaps. And if I think about this now this sounds so dodgy . So I used to put a picture of myself, right? Not a dodgy picture, but like you pop behindping a tree, like , you know, hey , pointing at the camera, probably blowing a kiss . I used to then self laminate that. And then on the back, I'd write, am I my name? Am I your new am I your new children's presenter? Kids you not with the landline to your parent's house and I'd send these out to every TV sec. Now it looks so dodgy but, eventually it paid off and I had just all this bravado. But is that not the very nineties equivalent of sliding in to the DM's of a cartoon producer now? It's the perfect millennial nostalgic thing of like that that is the same thing as me DM produce like, you know, what it is. You're just getting your face in front of this. I love you for normalizing that because I think that tenacity and I think that that is like I mean, we wouldn't send the postcards now with the tree photoshoot, but in the modern day version, like that that fear of asking for what you want . Like one, I think we need to instill it in more its Br and two more women because Americans are very good at this. I had this whole conversation the other day with someone on the show about that. They're very good at, you know, putting their CV forward and I do this . We as one of Brits and who is women, we are always afraid to ask what you want. I asked a TV show the day I came up land and we got me and Chris got our own reality TV show straight out of the gate. It was crazy wow. But all I knew in that time was that I was like, I fucking I loved making the show. I loved doing the MIVs, I love working with the producers. Like everything around it was a positive experience . So I literally that the day that they literally telling us and they you were know, not happy because they were like money wise, cruel, they were not like this is the decision we made because we cannot carry on like this . It was the right decision. I literally on my way out, I literally said to one of the one of the heads that lifted. I said , could I have my own one on my own? You're for you. My agent was thinking, fuck you got some balls and she's just been cancelled off it. And he said so. He said, let's talk. And I went back every six months I got back in touch with the same guy every six months and he'd say you need to do this. You need to build your personal profile. And I just kept asking. And every time I would and eventually in two thousand it was twenty, yeah, I got it it.. I love I loved it. I was never ashamed to ask for it. That's what I wanted. And the more people, you're absolutely loved. I do. And I've been in meetings with people. I'm not afraid to be like, if that job ever becomes available, I'd like to be considered. I'd like to read for it. I think I could do a really good job. They might go, you're not right for it. Like I've had conversations about shows that have been on air and I've been like, Can I read for that? And they'll be like, You're not right for it, Liv, but there will be something else that's right for you. What's I lose by asking that? If I didn't ask, I'd never fucking know that. And also people are not my readers. You know, you have to know you have to you have to tell people what you want, what you want in life . And as you say, there is such a culture around if a woman does it or, they're a bit ballsy, or they're a bit arrogant, or who do they think they are ? But I've always been that person . And I don't know. I mean, I've always been, I guess, what people would call a tomboy, you know? I mean, and I grew up with brothers. I grew up in quite a male dominated family . But I've always been of that attitude probably like you, and I think that probably and the same with you I would anticipate comes from having a high self esteem. And that's not to be confused with having large ego. No, there's nothing particularly wrong with that because there's humility in that and there absolutely is. But it is about self belief. And I say, there's no surprise really, I went into many years after that, went into the world of therapy and coaching because I really had been sort of practicing and preaching that all my life. And actually it does really stem from this is why I think it's always so important to go back. That's why I love relationships psychotherapy, relational psychotherapy going back. It really does start with my dad. My dad has always said to me if you want something badly enough, you'll find a way to get it. It's always been his mantra. And he always said to me, especially with TV . And he was always like, but someone's got to get the job. So why not you? And if you don't put yourself in that frame , then well, it's always going to be a no, then, isn't it? It's always it will be a no if you don't ask . But you don't know what the possibilities might be. And that's really what happened with me in my TV career. And it was actually one producer from an offshoot of ITV, so we had a thing called on digital. It was kind of as like all the digital tele was sort of launching. And it was a producer called Rob or an exec. And he remember the phone the landline rang there it was, pick up the landline, grab it around with the wire round to the stairs, pick up the phone. And he almost sounded quite ex asperated on the end of the phone. And I'd say about four or five months had gone by. And I used to send this every Monday, by the way. These cars trotted down to my post office, dropped them off. There they all go, yeah, drop them all off. Off we go. And in the meantime, though, I was temping. You know, again, my parents were never like, we're not going to sit around you, bugger all your life. Waiting for the phone to you, you're going to work. Damn right. I lived in London. I moved myself into London at seventeen. You know, I was even with my brother and my cousin at the time. I was signing up some shit recruitment agency but, I didn't matter because to your point, I'd got a taste of this and I blindly loved it. I just loved it. I just felt so sounds very knobby, but so alive. So me. And I am never happiest when I'm either on a live stage or in a TV studio. I'm just so comfy. Most people's idea of health health , which is the irony, but especially someone with an anxiety disorder, make it make sense. But he rang me up and he was like, is that Anna? I was like, like, Yes. He's Oh hello, it's me from Colton Kids, which was where Steven Maher and Angelica, everyone started there . And he went . I have had these postcards every week , four months . He's got the whole set now. He's got the tree, the bench, the whole set of back milkshake, you know what you like ? I think I'd even set that into milkshake on channel five with a milkshake , I ironically got that job. I actually shot I actually got that job I actually did a milkshake Yeah, I actually did a milkshake and he said to me when if I give you a chance one shoot , one shoot and you stop sending me these ruddy postcards? And I said, yeah, all right fine. He went, one chance. If you blow it, I'd never want you to darken my doorstep ever again. Leave me alone. No more postcards. And I'm going, yep, that's fine. So like, you know, Eager Beaver, I remember going to town. I remember getting paid fifty pounds for that shoe, which to me was like, I made money from doing ten . Yeah. This was it. I've made it live. And I remember I got sent to , I think it was Birmingham. I think it's like Smash Hits Pop Winners Party and they asked me to do the backstage interviews on like the pop bands that came and then I was like, Oh well, I know a bit about that because I've just been doing it and I did it . I look back now in that early footage. I was shit . Absolutely dreadful, but he must have seen something in me. Loves a try . And I got a job on that show and then as they say then ten years ten years then of kids telly I went through every single TV kids telly network from ITV to channel five Sky, Nickelodeon, Disney Channel, and I presented all the flagship shows on all of them. It's incredible and like you say, you would that wouldn't have happened if you hadn't been but kicking down that door. It wasn't going to land in your lap. You were the one that's like, this is what I want to do and I'm going to keep showing up. I'm going to keep putting my face in front of you until give me a chance. Activity breathes activity. And one of the biggest things I kick back with with people who people are very quick, they might be listening to this and going roasting your glasses are right for you. That's why I always go back and look at someone, you know, where someone's head space is and someone's mindset is. I've got good friends of mine that are in shitty jobs hating life , hating what they're doing. And when I say, change your job . it Oh's, easy for you to say I can't do that. And I'm like, look, okay, cause an effect. There's always a cost or something . But I'm like, But if you really are unhappy in that job, have a think about what steps you need to do in order to change that, you know, where you want to go with it, because there are always options out there. Now, no one's saying it's easy. No, no one's saying everybody has a, you know, of course it's not. There is some very, very difficult decisions for some people, but I think being stuck at it but, I think for me it's mindset is everything. Yes I love it On such a positive note, I hate to do such a gear channel. Take it down. Let's talk trauma. Yeah, and I think we have to touch it because I think it brings us to how you've combined your two loves and your two passions now. But at that time, you were riding high, like say, a decade of kids TV, but some of that time was darkened with a pretty horrendous relationship . Yeah . How sort of long into that journey did that relationship start? It was sort of halfway through my kids' tele vision kids at seventeen eighteen And I sort of came out of Kids Telly just through natural sort of evolution in my early thirties. So it was in my mid twenties. So I was pretty well established within the Kids Telly arena. I was earning good money. I owned my bought my first flat in Central London. You know, this was like I was living my best life. Really good place. Really good place. And I think often , well, I know this, but I didn't know this at the time, often those that are so open and so secure . Well actually maybe I wasn't maybe I was more anxious thinking back now never really thought of it like that can be a hot target for somebody that has perhaps not the same ideas. And yeah, I was in a relationship with somebody who pursued me who I thought was very attractive, very keen . I was flattered. I got love bombed.' Dtidn know what love bombing was, then no one talked about that. No . And I end up in a relationship that unfortunately turned out to be very controlling , psychologically abusive, and life changing that I found myself in my early twenties having a spectacular mental breakdown of spectacular to the point of I've been as low as low can be I've been as low as I'd dare to think anyone gets to that point . And I think that's really many years after that, what pivoted me to having a real passion, I guess , for not letting any body feel that shite ever again and also shining a spotlight on relationships and what goes on behind the scenes. And I think I'd never had any experience of what I would consider abusive relationships or dysfunctional. My parents have happ ily married fifty five years . I've got I'm very fortunate. This is not the norm, but I am very fortunate to have very healthy relationships around me. So I didn't have that point then. You didn't know what to look out for. So these were the behavior when did it when was there a point when you were like this isn't normal? Or would he be so good at kind of flipping the script that you were convinced it was normal? Yeah, I think I think we know we often talk about gaslightinging, you know, chang . And the words thrown around a lot now. Yes, yeah. But like in the definition of the word , it's someone basically telling you what you know to be true isn't , right? Changing your perception of it and making you question yourself. It's questioning your reality to the point you then believe it. And what that does, it's a very powerful form of abuse because min whenute the you start to question yourself, you're then chipping away at your self esteem and your self confidence. And if you don't have that yourself, you are very vulnerable indeed. If you don't know who you are and if you don't know what your boundaries are, you are leaving yourself wide open to be exploited, manipulated and abused, which is where I found myself unwillingly and unknowingly. And I think to answer your question, I had no idea. I knew it. This is why we talk about a lot of gut instinct, you know, head heart and gut. The gut is always correct. That is instinctively and neurologically that is tuned in . And often as human beings, we know it's there and then we go against it . But if we really allow that instinctive feeling to kick in and to follow that, we're right . And I should have had that gut instinct when I first met him because the pursuer was pursuing and all of the but I'm just saying that as a you mean so is could that potentially be a red flag for someone listening to you to this ? When you say pursue is that's the beyond the point of like the chase. Are we talking like relentless? What would you say is a red flag in a pursuit situation? I guess moving faster than you feel comfortable with. Okay . And when are asking for them to slow up and the pursuit is still intense. Scott yeah it's very nuanced but for me I did really like it. I find it very exciting. You know, I hadn't been with someone quite this exciting. And you know, Dave, I'm a bit of a ballsy girl. So I quite, you know, and also I've grown up with guys, you know, I can take the banter , you know. I'm good friends with people in your life. You know, I can I can I can I can take over this hard and I am really offended as well. I can I can be in the gutter with the best of them but I also like the chase, you know and I like, the excitement as well. Yeah. And he posed as that and I think it was that danger slightly of like, oh, he's a bit spicy , but he was very keen and then moved very quickly from wanting to move things very quickly. You know, my home save my pride and joy, my Bridget Jones flat wanted suddenly his flat wasn't available for him anymore. And oh, can I stay with you for a bit and then didn't leave and it became get their feet under the rug in literally and metaphorically and then started with praising me for being so beautiful and sexy and this and that. Oh my god . And then suddenly this is what to look out for. Then suddenly after a while that just starts to flip with a youaring that out . It's a bit low, bit low cup top . Then because you have been in this bubble of he adores me, hears me, he adores me, ostetosin's flowing. Oh, you've discovered him. Oh, do you think it's a bit I think it's a bit late up babe. I think we need to change that and then and that is when it starts to move. And I noticed that and there were a few work parties and things and I'd come back from work parties, having really enjoyed myself and being really transparent, really open because that's the kind of person I am , was, still am . And then that was manipulated against me. You know, I must have been a slut, you know, for talking to people. And then you find yourself defending no, no, of course I wasn't. No. Well, actually you shouldn't even maintain that kind of interaction now you'd go, get out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But exactly that and you start to question yourself, oh well, if you did give them did you give them a number? Look at your phone. No, well if you won't let me look at your phone, you must be hiding something. Okay, look at me all of that. Hell, no, and if anyone's listening to this and you're in this, please run. Please, trust trust in someone that you know and run, get out of that relationship. Nobody should be ever crossing those boundaries. I know you know that Liv, but I didn't know that. I was wide open . And when I knew instinctively, I knew it was wrong . And there was also , you know, I'm very close to my family. And another classic tactic is to remove the loved ones, you know, the close friends tried to isolate you. Right. And that happened too. A hard question to ask, and I don't know if it's the one you can , and I guess all kind of coercive control situations are different. Do you think he knew what he was doing . Do you think people that operate at that are intensively? Great question. Cruel and evil , or do you think it's just the way they're wired and they're moving through the world, causing pain, but they don't. Do you know what I'm saying? For that note, I do. I think it was fascinating. It's an excellent question actually. I think this is I've later found out this was habitual. I was not the first. So he was he had a pattern of this. This was pattern, yeah, which I didn't know at the time. No, but there was a pattern of this. But I also believe that he believed that he was a victim in life. Right. The world hard. Yeah. Professional victims are some of the most dangerous people I've ever met. Professional victims. They are yeah . Everybody dangerous person to get into a friendship with or relationship. Big time, big time. And that I think there's somewhere in the middle ground on that question, if I'm perfectly honest with you , but for sure, was a very, very, very dysfunctional relationship. And that's where and I think a lot of where my panic attacks started and when I'm very well publicized, it's kind of what turned my career really Reference a meltdown day that was a day was like the day when it kind of you wrote you snap basically .ically Bas, yeah. I think I'd pedaling for about six months at this point for six months. Yeah. I was hosting Saturday Morning TV, you know, it was job and my dreams. So you were going through shit home at and you had to come in and fucking game face and yeah and at the worst point I was yeah I'd even moved myself out of I was going back home to my parents and I think this is this is what felt so just so just oh I didn't even know what the feeling was all kinds of emotions that I at this point was getting into bed with my parents and I was a Baffden nominated TV presenter on Saturday morning telly and you think, What if people knew behind the scenes this smiley happy girl that's throwing custard pies around in gunge tanks in the morning is actually in her parents' bed crying because I can't sleep. I'm riddled with anxiety. I don't know who I am. I don't know how to name it, I don't know what to do . And essentially, I wasn't sleeping. So I mean, the panic disorder, my mental health was in the absolute pits . And you know, I've always, you know, the analogy being, it was like a car engine, you know, that little car petrol tank that had reached needs to be filled up now. It's on beat, it's beeping, it's beeping. If you don't refuel now, the whole car is going to just stop on the M twenty five. Well, that didn't just stop the M twenty five, it burst into flames basically because I hadn't and we talk a lot about mental health. I hadn't figured I hadn't recognized the warning signs. I didn't know Don't taught me. That's why I talk so much about it teaching people now. But it's sentiently meltdown day as I affectionate call it probably, was the worst best day of my life in a weird way because it was a day everything changed for the worst and for the better. And I went into work. It was back in the days of GMTV and I don't know if you ever went into the old studio five which was, on the South Bank Studio. Oh, is that in the old town building? Yeah, I did when I first came off Love Island, I think just a year before they ripped it down. Yeah, it would have been. It would have been around that time. Best days ever, those have been brilliant days, early nineties, early early nineties people were there . And I remember going in and you had this thing where I'll always remember it. It's like a movie in my head going up in the lift. There was this lift from the scene dock where they used to Saturday night take away and everything and it would take you up into the GMTV studi os. And we used to share the same studio as Lorraine . So Lorraine would come off, Asset would then go in and we'd shoot our show . And so it's like heart of activity. And I remember the lift going up and it was a dark car journey in and I hadn't slept, I was I was done. And I was having to also learn a lot of script as well like that the job is the job . And also you know, there's lots of other people out there des thatper'sate to have that job as well, you know? And I loved it. And you get reminded of that a lot all the time. Well, exactly. And you'll also understand this being in Telly. It was the important autumn quarter that people in Telly talk about, which is where bums on seats, it's the key advertising period . So that is everyone counsels holiday for the autumn quarter. It's where everyone makes their money. So not a time where you can ask for awesome days in Yep. Exactly, exactly that. So I felt that pressure within myself, to be fair, more than anything .' Dtidn want to people pleaser. We didn't want to let everyone down. Didn't want to not be on my own show. I remember that lift going up onto the fifth floor , the doors opened and I remember just seeing this hive of activity and just felt like I was swimming . And then it was a colleague of mine who'd recently been off with depression actually just looked at me. She must have seen Takes one to No one, looked at me and she was like, Are you okay, Anna ? And I remember just looking at her and just it was like the game over the master wall Hill and I burst into tears. I don't remember too much of it really after that. I remember going into my dressing room and it was on the same corridor as all the other presenters on you know GMT presenters . And I remember my co presenter at the time, Jamie, he was lovely and he was like, What's wrong? And I was like, I can't, I just can't do it. I can't remember what I said, but I was in floods of tears, just those gulping, hyperventilating tears. I said, I just can't do it. I just can't do it. He was great. It was like, shit, I'll go and get someone. And then Fiona Phillips I know I love Fiona and Lorraine Kelly, you know, they just come off air and we all shared a corridor. And I remember they came in and you know you ate petal, you know what ? And I remember Fiona just being so kind and concerned and you know, crouching down next to me, holding my hands and you know, what is it? What is it, Darling? And I think I did actually say to her, it's I'm not happy or I can't remember what I said, but whatever I said , I got Addy Leed out of there, you know, as you do. And you know, it was it was a real turning point for me, you know, and I remember sort of being busted back to my parents who I'd just left. And then I only remember this, it was like four hours of me sitting on my parents' couch, just crying, just letting all that emotion out of my mum hoovering around me. Just carrying on . But that was really the start of it. And I then remember, you know, nobody really talked about mental health then and no body was like a big dirty secret still no so different. No one knew what to do. In fact, actually the only person that was recommended to me through ITV who I'm working with was the staff counsel or ITV at the time was Graham, who was the counsellor on the Jeremy Kyle show. No, I'm dead. Graham. Graham with the glasses. Oh my god. Gray it's a robot. I know . So I had a phone call with Graham, didn't I after the Jeremy Carr show behind the scenes which he was very lovely . And he said, you know, it sounds like you got burnout or then to be honest, I was very fortunate my mom who had worked in healthcare for years and years and years just happened to work in the same department as a medical secretary as another secretary friend of hers, who was the secretary to a brilliant a mental psychiatrist, mental psychologist, a psychiatrist who specializes in anxiety disorders and assuming that's what was wrong with me , I went to see him and that for me was game changing. Walking into his room, this absolute highly strong mess . And but for me, for him labeling it for what it was was you've basically had a mental breakdown. Yeah, and I'm going to make you better. And I was like, Am I not insane? And he was like, Nope, you've just had a really bad time. Gosh . I've lived through something very similar. Have you? Have you? Yeah. How long ago? The first time the first time I have spoke about this, it was funny. I was about twenty one. It was pre love Ireland. It was when I got my ADHD diagnosis and I was I'd had a big breakup, big horrible breakup and I was living on my own and I went home. And I moved out when I was eighteen and I hadn't been home since and I went home to my parents and I was, yeah, I wasn't sleeping. I was having nightmares, there was so much going on. And I went in and I had a psychiatrist my mum got me in front of a psychiatrist and I'd had an hour with her and she was two things happening at the same time . But at the end of that hour, she said Has anyone spoken to you about ADHD? And I just thought, I remember feeling so like because my understanding of ADHD at that time was so minimal. And do you know what? As a child I'd been described as hyperactive and that was always the feedback from school . She can't sit still, she can't listen. She does this and impulsive . But no one with women or girls, no one was really dragged losing us with neurodiversities at all. No. And also, I didn't know I remember I was assessed by a school , I forget what they call them now. You know, like behavior, like who decides if you have dyslexia or whatever . Yes. I also, I'm such a contradiction even now as an adult because I didn't fit into the enough boxes because I was meticulously organized. Right. But it's all myself . I'm quite obsessive. So I did say Audi ena. I sorry the word. Autistic. author. It was just like a different lady . She just hyper does hypatic she doesn't eat less sugar and whatever. Right. So yeah, all my pencil case, my things were tied so yeah, I can't do that because she doesn't anyway. So when I was twenty one went in, I was the same situation. I was crying, you know, crying constantly. It was such a mess. My anxiety was like, you know, my panic attacks took me to A and E like several times because I was so convinced I was dying. That's very common, you know? Yeah, because no one now, I think there was, you know, we watch these TikToks and what the younger generation are growing up with is there's so much bad online, but I see things described from mental health content creators. I think God, I would have killed to hear something like this when I was sixteen because no one was talking about it . So I was my mum , she, I think, was sure as having a panic attack, but I was like, You're wrong. You are right. I can't breathe. I can't see. You know, everything. So no one could no one can ever describe how terrifying. You're convinced terrifying. What's more scary is when you feel like the people around you don't believe look like they're going, you're okay. Well it actually compounds you don't know. You don't know . It's terrifying. Terrifying. Terrifying. Having panic disorder is, which is what I was diagnosed with, is absolutely, I'm so sorry that you went through that too. And so I went through that and then went there. She said ADHD. I never just thought like that's I came here for someone to like fix me I thought I've got nothing to do with this. Like I thought ADHD was like you have it at school or like it means that you know it falls into a category like dyslexia , how's that gonna? And then she's like, No, hold on. She's like, because this is key because the fact that it's unmanaged or untreated is the chicken and the egg situation. She's like, yes, you've had a horrible breakup. Yes, you're a very anxious person , but it's all exasperated by the fact that the ADHD is so there the way you're living your life, you're doing everything to make it worse, not better. So anyway, that was a big moment. And then did it help? Understanding my mind. It's like a light went on in the room. And then she gave me materials take away to read. And it was like big like little black aphal pieces of paper. And I was like, o Godh, and I remember I picked up a few days I was like scrolling through it and I was like reading and it was like reading about myself and I was like it was the most a liberating experience of my life. Isn't that interesting? Because a lot of people yeah, this is it. And I think a lot of people, some people really hate labels , but for me , I find them, well, for me personally, very cathartic. Yeah, and I think it's how you interpret a label or a diagnosis. And I think there is a lot of talk now, people are overdiagnosing or quick to diagnose, and God forbid we diagnose each other on ourselves, their fires center. But actually , I think when we do have that label or diagnosis, it gives us an opportunity to understand. It's not an excuse , but it is a reason. And I think it sounds like you had the same as I had. When I went into that session and I had a professional opposite me saying, basically telling me what was wrong with me saying you have GAD, generalized anxiety disorder and panic disorder and when he unpacked what was going on , these are the reasons why it all made sense. And as you say, for the hymn, and I actually remember I had felt so lonely with those feelings and those emotions, genuinely feeling like I was insane. Yeah. And then when you have someone opposite you saying, almost like you're not so special. Like you're like one of like thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that are going through this. And here's why because you've been going through a really crap time and you've also not learned how to cope , you know, and understand yourself. I found it really comforting because I remember saying, will I feel better? And he's like, for sure you will. You don't feel so alone. You don't feel so alone. And that's when I realized and they say, We didn't do therapy. I mean, who did therapy? You know, now therapy was the word. My mum was like, You're gonna go into the psychiatrist and like, thank god she did. I did not tell anyone. Like, I was so embarrassed of that. Like and when I got my ADHD diagnosis back then , I did not when I was in love with, I did not breathe a fucking like, I think there's been a big shift in last two or three years around, especially on ADD and ADHD . I did not mention that shit. Like I felt like I was, I felt comfort in knowing why I was the way I was, but it wasn't something I'd ever wear as a badge of honor. You know, like it's been stigmatized and it's the same with mental health. And I think especially as a woman felt quite embarrassed by that label of like, you think of AdiCha do you think of Denis Dennis? Like did you really? I was like, It's not chic, it's not like it's not girly. Like you're gonna think that I know you like yeah and I'm so glad that that is changing . And then my , I mean, obviously the last six months have been wild . But the difference isn't like the point we're coming to here now but what you learned when you went through your breakdown is that having hit such a low point back then and I've dipped in and out of therapy over the last ten years. Like I go in it, I go out there and the last been back in it for the last and a half . It was a few weeks ago. I was I'd really, I mean, I've not taken my foot off my own neck since this breakup suffered . And obviously dealing with everything press everything. It's been a long . And I've actually as slobby as sound its. I've felt from you from afar because seeing someone having to navigate that privately as well as publicly It's been a lot. Yeah, it's been a it's been an interesting time. And I was in a meeting and I suggested something to do something that I'd already done . And my agent was like, You did that? And I was like, What do you mean? She was like, You did that. And I was like, did I? And then she was like, yeah. And then later on in the day we had another meeting and I was just really dissociative. Like I was really like I think she was looking at me like I was wrist really glassy eyed and then they called me later in the afternoon and was like we're going to cancel the next couple of days and I was like I, started to panic. She was like, You've just been weird today. And I called my therapist. And he was like , this is good. He's like, because you're not gonna have mental break, they're not going to snap because these are the little precursors of cognitive overload . So like you brought your memory like you kind of like glass at, he's like you caught these before. It's like a muscle. Like you know you're stretching it . He's like now he's like let it go. So he's like but if you if you don't take my advice and you insist on going to film tomorrow for twelve hours, he's like, I don't know what kind of shape you'll be in the exit. So you have to have to listen to look for the signs. You do. And I always liken it with my clients to a tightrope , you know, a kind of a tight rope is , you know, it's it's yeah and but it should be quite slack you know, it should be quite slack if we use it as kind of burnout, stress anxiety or whatever, you know, it should be fairly fairly chill, fairly slack and something quite major has to smash into it for it to trigger, you know, something huge, like, I don't know, running in front of a car or something for you to trigger your ank anxious and no response. You fight or fly. But gradually is that stress and that burnout and everything else, it's like someone's at the either end just tightening it and tightening it and tighten it and tightening it. So it's so tight and taut that any tiny droplet of trigger will make you come bus and it sounds like that's where you were. And also credit to the people you have around you for spotting that . Because that's where choosing the people that you have in your life is so important because too many people in life in general, not just this industry have the wrong around you. And it's important to not have yes people. It's important to have people that will push back at you, but do have your interests at heart. And I think I've really curated that. You know, I still have my best friends I have in my life , some of them, some of them I've met in more recent years, but fifty percent of them I've had since primary school still. And I also have Paul Crutherson who's one of them for example, but friends of mine that will check in on you and vice versa I have been recently with him, you know, and I think that's really important to have those people in your life that will tell you how it is. I remember he's done it to me on last series series before last. I was going through quite a lot personally, just some private stuff with my family, not necessarily me, but he obviously was aware of it. And I remember he checked in on me and he was like, Are you okay? Like I just want you carrying a lot. He was like, you're carrying a lot. He was like, You're going into rescuer mode. And it's really good when you have those people around you that are just calling you out on that. And I'm really pleased that you've had this and that's and that's what I have in my life now. My husband's very good at it . I'm good at pushing back at him, but I am I've had another I had another breakdown when I had my first my first baby . And that was all sort of tied up in the birth trauma side of things. But I recognized the signs and the symptoms now. You could see what it was going to happen You have to know when you're not functioning and stop people pleasing and you just have to, you have to pick yourself first. Because and this thing in my therapist always reminds me of I'm very lucky that I've got a very I've got a great management team and I've got great friends . He always says this is true. My sister works in finance in a seriously high pressure environ ment. Our job is obviously so known for it. Like no one's going to look out for you more than you. So he's like, if you, you know, like they will, in any industry, like they will step over you and replace you when you when you fall on your knees. So it's like you are the one that has to save yourself before you're in a situation where if you know, if I can't go to like film a show, they're not going to cancel that show. They're going to find someone else. Same advice doesn't go to work. They're not going to shut down the whole bedroom. And they're going to get someone else. So you have to look after you and like learn to advocate for yourself and your well being, which is something that is not very taught. Like it's quite hard it's quite hard, especially for millennials. Gen Z are better. Gen Z are much better. I see it in my brother. Yeah. And like me and my sister, like, my God, like he abdicated himself at one of his first jobs in a village pub. And I was like when I had my first job in hairdressers they could have told me to lick the full kit and I would have done it. I would have even I'll do it again st the laugh. I would never be like No, that is, you know, not in my job title. I've got a fucking dad. Yeah, it's so true. But then I think then on the flip to that, then Gen Zers do get loads of shit thrown at them from then, you know, the Jed X's and the Millennials from getting all the boomers going, Oh, they're so bloody lazy because they're too entitled and then this and that, which, you know, it needs to be a halfway. There's a halfway half way. And you're right. My niece and my nephew at Gen Z is and they're doing great in their centric industries in their early twenties. But yeah, they're they really admire them because they've got their shit together , but they will advocate for themselves. I remember my nan's funeral, like just last year. Oh, I'm sorry. I know. It's one of it. It's sad. We landed back from Hamburg, my dad's German, and me and my sister the next day was at work found out my brother had taken a few days off and we were talking on this chat and he was like, We're at work. And I was like, and he was like, do you not feel terrible? And I was like, yeah, awful. Clarks are crying. And he was like, right. And then it was a really interesting he was like, Well, I just I've got days like in Lu I just took some days to put myself back together and my sister was going you know what the fuck is planet is here on you know he wants to get a promotion. Like it was it interesting to see how he was like I need a day or two to promise funeral. Whereas me and my sister wouldn't have even contemplated thought of that. We were like off the plane. Like I'm sure she went to a meeting from the airport. Yeah. But I think that's where we need , especially in work, I think nowadays, we need to stop this culture of whoever works harder, parties harder, works the longest hours is superior . We need to give other people permission and recognize it for them and help make that decision for them. I would really like to credit my SlebSka dating team actually for last series. They did that for me because I can even though I preach it, but I'm also hard to take it hard to take it away sometimes. And I remember we were in the middle of a scene for dating last series and I got a phone call from my son's school and every parent will know that when that phone number rings up and you know it's your kid's school your heart just drops because it's always going to be bad news. And schools have a thing of the first thing they say is for me, and Mr Deep Squire, that's my marriage name . Miss Deep Squadi, don't worry , kids. Thank you. No one can bloodly pronounce it or spell it. It's yeah, it's Cicillian yeah . But this was the first time they didn't say everything's fine. I'm just ringing about, I don't even paid for the bill . And it was my son. My son had had a situation at school, a medical situation . And I remember being and I never normally have my phone on set . And I had it. And I remember sort of freezing and you know, you've been on the show but say everyone's sort of plugged in and can hear . And I can hear him say, you know, he needs to go to A and E. And I'm thinking I'm in Central and the straight away just like the mum guilt as well. If my son is clearly crying somewhere and I'm not there and I can't find it. My husband did go and get him. But he wanted my husband's dream going he just wants you. He wants mummy because he wants m ommy . And I remember freezing in that moment and I was like, I need to go. I need to go. And again , I don't know what I would have done if anyone had pushed back on me, which they could have done, but they didn't. They were like, Oh my ex , my Tom Tara, Paul were like, go , we've got this. They completely rewrite the scenes, they went, we'll cover the scenes. You know, bless them, they canceled something they had to do and they went, just go to your boy. And then I even remember that night being in the hospital and the team very sweetly checking in is he accused he's fine but he doesn't need an operation. Don't worry, I'll be back in the morning. And they were like, It's fine. We've rewritten the entire schedule tomorrow assuming you're not in. If you want to come in, that's great. If you don't and you're tired, don't come in. And in those moments, I didn't realize as much as I preach it, I needed my team to advocate for me and to give me that out because being the people pleaser that I try not to be, but every now and again I do , I would have pushed myself too much and actually as it turned out thankfully my son was okay and I did go in later on the next day. I think this is where in society and life we've got to stop shaming people for needing to take that moment and doing the right thing. And but that culture that culture is widespread and it needs to and I remember when I came back after my mental breakdown there was definitely like snide comments, particularly from guys. Yeah, tickets from guys I worked with of like happy pills or whatever. Yeah. And yeah, I did feel stigma at the time. You know, I did dread you'll do this a lot as well. You've got insurance forms coming through for different shows you work on your ticket box. You know, have you ever suffered from are you on any medication and stuff? And feeling that now I don't know I don't believe it was different. It was different. Yeah. I mean, you've set us up beautiful to talk about Slebs Gay because we can't be here and not talk about it because post that traumatic era in your life and having therapy, that's when you fell in love with therapy. You trained . You did, I mean, you've got a list of degrees and qualific ations that I won't read off, but you have now managed to combine your two loves. You know, you were dating cookies, sub dating. We were talking about before we started rolling. I obviously was on sebscoding myself in twenty nineteen. I was the year before seventeen. It would have been I joined an APA seven okay seventeen I was gutted I missed your year you were brilliant on that. I think you watched had a lot of fun. I watched your episode your series to get me up to speed with what the show was about because I kind of had quite a quick appointment onto the show. And I mean, my God, I just got dropped in at the deep end. I didn't loved it. And I was on Paul's first series and then obviously you joined. I have to say, I've done quite a few shows, different shows. I had a really great experience on that show. You have Tyler. Do you know what it's doing Tom Reed Wilson Production Dubai It's a very fun show some moments of real genuine depth . I don't I think it would be different maybe now if I was on it with you. Probably . I don't I didn't I wouldn't he did try. And when we talk , he was Paul Brunson, he when he was on my podcast before, he was talking to me about what he'd learned about me. And I was quite like, Oh, I thought I kept you well at bay. I wasn't, I was determined not to let him sort of crack letting in it there . I wasn't ready at all . And yeah, so I think now I would probably give myself the process more. But I was and you know what? I very much was there to have fun and that's why I had fun and it was good, good fun. And we do want that from that comes on and it's definitely I'm so pleased that you had a great experience. I always say anyone that is injury goes, Oh, I'm doing sub skating. I said, do it. I said, honestly and you must know this as well. I don't really hear of anyone that goes, Oh, I wish I hadn't done that. No. That's the series you've filmed is out now and you're approaching the final. I saw Colleen Living Looswing because she was on. And I then saw that r shean to David Potsy. So I've seen a few. Go away to be honest. What are they saying? No, they just Colleen said she had the best time. She guys went to Tenerife for the final. She said they just laughed, you know, there were real moments and for some people more than oth ers , you know, it was a very cathartic experience, but it's not. The others they started clinical say she just had a lot of fun with her a lot. It is honestly I really mean this when , you know, Paul and myself , Tom and Torres came and come in a few seasons ago as well. We honestly wouldn't continue doing the show if we didn't wholeheartedly love it and believe in it as a show and how it's made. My experience of working on it now for nine and nearly nine years now, this is my twelfth thirteenth series I've done . It keeps evolving and I believe actually we've just had some really good ratings from this series, which is lovely as well. And what's great is that the channel and the execs do allow us to have that editorial control when it comes to the advice we give and I think what is always I think less surprises celebrities now because I think kind of the pennies dropped and sort of the chat's gone through. But I think at the beginning we always could see this the first time they come in they're like okay it's the paycheck and these guys like, they, are for real? Are they scripted? And then you can always see it in like the second or third session . When they're like, sometimes they've even said it. They're like, Can I just check? You're not you're not acting, right? And it's like, no. No, no, no, genuinely trying to work with you. So we have to trot out now standard. I go now, do you know what we all do? Because let's give you our credentials for you. We're not pretending. No, we're not pretending. And actually we had on this series is one of our latecomers, PK Humble, who is a big YouTuber. And I remember PK came in and he was playing with us that first session and it was like, okay, here we go. And we can spot it takes one to know one. And then it was already came in so different on the second session. And he was like , I think I could find a bit of value in this. And we were like, Dude, thank you because all we ever say to people is you may as well just take the three of us combined with thousands of pounds worth in therapy. You're like, you may as well take it for free. And whilst we're here, you know, we'll help you out with whatever you're doing. And I think what we love about it is that we are not tampered with at all . It is a really warm show. You know, I love the fact that we really do treat everybody with warmth and respect and, you know, I think that's what everybody feels. And it's a blessing. It's a blessing. I'm sounding like PCB now. It's a blessing. But it is essentially I get to go to work with my best mates. What's Paul's thing that he always says? He always says Here's the thing . Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Here's here . You know what? You know what? Yeah, you need to . When he sends me a voice note, bearing in mind, like we are basically like from the same womb with the same person just in different bodies. So even when he just sends me a private voice note, he's like, Anna sis. Good day to you. Okay, and then he will list like an agenda the talking points. He wants to do in a voice note to me. But that's actually fucking really good. I love him to pieces. He's my act he is my brother. He gave Tom and I the biggest compliment a few months ago when he did you know he's got his British UK residency? Oh, I think I saw this like proper brit now. Only just now as a long time to do the test and everything. I mean, that was that was hard. I think you should do that . He gave me a few questions. I think I've failed miserably. I think I'd fail. I'm born bred London and failed miserably . But it's just like history and but yeah , there's no way . There's literally no way. There was something about council tax and I was like, No, no idea. Well, I know I'll paying a lot yeah. But he said, you know, it's when he came over and it would you would have been one of the first people to have got to know fresh that was his first series. Gosh, I really did go on the show and I'm just thinking about how dramatic that time was 'cause there'd been another guy gone. Yeah. So then Paul replaced him as remembering now, yes. A lot of change happened in the closer three series . Yeah, and he was learning the job on the job and then all of a sudden he was on his own on his own and then learning how UK TV works and the culture and all of us and our isms and our weird little things that we say. And he's like, what the fuck are they talking about? Yes. But also to what you were saying earlier on, and like both of us is why we're all in the same sort of club because if he wants it, he goes and gets it. And he's not ashamed in saying, I'd like to do that, please. Yeah. And he has, and I'm so proud of him as a friend and you know, he is my kids call him uncle Paul, you know, I mean who comes to the UK and buys a football club? I'll see Branson. That's that's what you do. He's he's unsopable . No, I think you guys we talked about this before we start by. I think I think you guys do such a fant astic job at like that line of it's it's fun, it's it's light heart entertainment, but it has heart . And I know I obviously have my show bad boyfriends now and other you know, Love Island Amazon and Love Island's been through, you know, scrutiny, it's evolved over the years as it rightfully should . There's other dating shows that have been put under sportlight recently. It's a very , it's a very like precious thing that you're kind of handling and you are it's an entertainment show and you're delivering entertainment to people and they want to be entertained , but you are also dealing with very real things. Yeah. And that is a very, I mean perhaps off to you because I think you guys do it very well and it's a very very fine line to walk. Yeah, I think I think it does take a certain element of skill for everybody involved if I'm honest with you because as you say , there's no room for error at all. And we've talked at the beginning of our chat here about how people can swoop very quickly . And it's very important that any project that anyone does, but particularly I do. I'm having to juggle a professional qualification, you know, my own private practice. You know, I have other people behind the scenes in my other world checking what I'm doing, you know, to keep me regulated, to keep me insured, I'm supervised over here . So then as you say, juggling that then on screen where you are also essentially making a TV show . So there has to be an editorial license in that as well. I mean, it has to be fun and interesting otherwise no one would watch you or it wouldn't be the fun show that people enjoy. So it's a very, very delicate balance, but I do think we get it right and I think we get it right because we do have a very talented team who are all very respectful and it's collaborative . And I think with an evolving industry, I think what we do at Selebsky Dating is is I think we all lead from the top with all with the same goal in mind. We want to have a fun heart warming TV show where the people that come on are actually really bloody brave. I mean you were b,rave coming on and I really do people might go, Oh, whatever, are they getting paid to go on the tele . But seriously, these are people, you know, celebrities who are scrutinized with everything they do. They are real dates. And they're real people from Adam. No, they're real filmed. It's very awkward. It's really awkward and you will get real critique from us. Yeah. If you behave like a dickhead or you like Mark La Bette, you know, from the chase you drink a candle, you know, we're going to take the piss out of you, you know, and and but we will always, always, always and I mean this on my children's looms we have everybody's best interest mental health and well being at the crux of everything . And everybody is it is honestly our ethos. Everyone that comes on our show, it is the biggest compliment when they leave going , I really got so much from that. Like a Colleen, not only does she have so much fun , but they've actually learned and they've grown through the process. And for me, I mean, that's the best job in the world, right? I get to do tele and I get to do my coaching work and you know, if people come out of it going to have a great experience and got a little paycheck at the end of it, everyone's winning baby. Someone I know pretty well. en Hejoy ed it so much. He went for three rounds Mr. Pete Wicks. Let me tell you now. I think we could almost do a misses and misses on who knows Pete Wicks better at this point. I mean, I'm going to argue probably you three rounds at the agency. I mean, I couldn't find anyone well. I mean, he kept picking up the phone, didn't he going, you know, I'm coming back I mean every time he rang on that bloody doorbell . Come on kid, sit down. He's just looking for a free meal, I didn't. Yeah, let's talk about that avoidant attachment, Starly Awesome . How is that going? Avoidant . The complete opposite to what you'd expect. Good boy. Excellent. Okay. It would be Shooker. Shook us I've known him for ten years. And I've known him a long time. Yeah. I'm like, I've known you ten years and I don't know you now, who are they stuff and I'm like, Who are you? Who are you? Well, all I'd say is it's probably a good time in his life because I mean we're never having him back now because he's been on too much. Although there is no there is no series that he doesn't get a mention. And I did think he was going to get away with being mentioned this year, but I did just see a scene that has just been aired where unfortunate ly I mentioned him, and I didn't know it took it. I mean, we're filming for a long time. I don't know what makes the edit in the end. I think I was talking to someone about birthing something to do with birthing and phagines. And it was Rob Becket , and he obviously had to make some craft joke about me birthing Pete and Sam out of my phagen, but I'm fine with it. I think Pete's fine with it. He's super laid back. Good sense of humor, T . Is there anyone from this series that particularly had an impact on you? You can't pick favorites. I can't pick favorites. Honestly, I'm not this sounds , but they are, they've been brilliant this series. We've loved . We had Kari and Paulo back as well, Kerry Katona and Paulo, who are still a lovely couple. We're really riding on a wedding on this one there. You needed a wedding. Honestly, I've already told her. I had Gabb ony Faceer' Lsove Island. I love Gabby. And she's had some rotters. She deserves She deserves more. She's I love her. I suppose the scenes that have really kind of gone really, I've had so much comments this week about it as scenes with Professor Green, Steven . He's going for a real big change in life, I think. He's quite an unusual signing for us for Sebscade dating , but he has been phenomenally vulnerable about and it's for me I like to challenge myself and bring topics from the therapy world, from the real world into the ether. And Steven allowed us to do that with him being newly diagnosed Audi how that looks when you're dating being neurodivergent and dating it is different from other people and us being able to explore that through his lens on a neurotypical date is just not working for him. So that was great that he allowed us to work with him on that. And also coming out of a fresh breakup as a parent and the pain. Talking about the single dad experience. A lot of people notice actually. I don't normally my job as a therapist, I switch off emotionally you just do. Yeah. They don't you have to. You have to. It's not for you to emotionally project. They don't need my emotions. I'm there to critique and to analyze and to sponge , but I'm also human. And I think maybe as a parent myself as well, he spoke so rawly. And I also knew we'd been working together for three months and it took him that long to really trust, to allow that narrative to come forward for him. And so in that scene, you could hear a pin drop, and a lot of people picked up that there were tears prickling in my eyes because I knew and I said, You know, this camera's rolling. He knows his camera's rolling, but for him to allow us to go there and for him to be so vulnerable about that was so powerful. And I've seen nothing but thousands of amazing comments of support for him. So that's nice. I think I don't have kids and it completely like it got me and I think that I've, you know, I have friends that co parent with vexes and they talk about a lot of women talk about or that pain of like if it's not your Christmas or it's but you don't quite often hear men talk about it. So I think that also as well is hearing a dad talk about you know, I'm not waking up with your kid every morning and what that feels like sometimes yeah, because you don't hear from men in that way as much. We don't and we also heard this particularly J likeames Hasco, I don't know if you know him but I love it. I love James again and he gets a bad question because I think that he's he just comes out with shit of his mouth and then I think it lands and then people maybe get the wrong voice. I think he's arrogant or a bit of a knob, I think, but he's honestly one of the nicest people. He was probably the favourite from the entire crew . Fast crew on and off screen, just such a sweetheart. Like such a team player, he was definitely the glue with all of our celebs like James just bought it Team Sports. Yeah, he's bringing that team sports energy right. You're absolutely right. But through his lens and you're right, what I've loved about this series of celebs goesing is I'm such an advocate of men because I think we are in a of course on one side we've got, you know, the manosphere and all of that. And of course that's that's a huge thing and quite rightly we're there in exposing that. But on the flip side, you know, I do worry about not all men, you know, I worry about the healthy men , you know, the good guys in our life and what they're dealing with and struggling with. And Steven allowed us to do that. And so did James because James is also single parenting as a dad. Yeah. And I saw through both their lenses what committed parents they are to their kids and also how respectful they would be towards their exes . And I love I like it when celebs go dating takes things to another level to another notch and exposes demographics that perhaps have been underrepresented. Absolutely. We can't have you here and not touch on Louanna because actually through therapy and TV, that's how you met Louisa. Yes. It was you were on work by the side . Yep. And she'd come off, yep. You might be out of the side. What was she What was your first impression of Louisa? Oh my god, we first met both heavily pregnant . So lose middle child and my eldest. They're born two weeks apart. Oh my god wow and they are such firm friends as well. Well, they're the same kid, basically. So I was in the green room built on the side. She was coming in to be on the panel. I was the psych. She was coming in as just no she'd been on the show. Psych, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you were analysing yeah yeah and we were both lovely pregnant. Oh so I love that show that was one of my favorite and it was also quite near Elstreet so it looked like it was like perfect to get to. So I remember being really heavily we were both nine months pregnant and she walked in and she took one look at me on the sofa and I'm like Lim, I look like a whale. I mean people thought I was carrying twins. I looked huge. And she went, Ah, God , you're massive. And I was like, but at the time, it could have gone left or right. Yeah. And I found it actually really funny. Like I said, I've grown up in a very banterish boy's world . And if we could and I respond well to the piss being taken out of me. And I was and I think I joked at her for, I don't know, being mind new or something And then through talking, we realized we lived near each other , went on to have babies . And then this was her second baby . And I remember she, she must have forgot my number, but she reached out to me. That's it. She was like, I'm having something such a party girl. She likes doing events, so she's busy. And she invited me to some mum baby thing. And I didn't respond because I was in the pits of postnatal depression. And then she'll the last thing I want to do is go to a fucking baby yes . But she'd obviously picks up on this. And this is the thing about this is that she's such a gobbo that she is the kindest most, warm like little, she hates it, she literally hates it when I say that, but she is. She's fiercely loyal to the people she likes. She doesn't like you to run hard. Yeah, exactly. And she kept on at me and she was like, Are you okay? And then I had present depression. And then we sort of met off and became friends. Sam Fez also was around at the same time. And you know, she became good friends with Lou with Big Brother and then baby Paul as he was at the time, you know, we're friends. And that's how it started. And then I was doing another podcast, which was Breaking Mum and Dad, which was spin off to the book I wrote as well. And she came on that. And we had quite diversity conversation around breastfeeding , bottle and breast. And the listener figures just spiked. And they were like, Oh my God, how refreshing to have two women that completely disagree , but get on really well. Yeah. And that's what we fiercely stand for. We're like, have different opinions . Doesn't mean you have to be all precious about it. No , oh my god, you can't be my friend. And that was where Luanna was born. And you've had such incredible success with that podcast. And it just looks like you genuinely have the best time . And like you say, the way that she comes across and I like just what we said earlier again, it's like I know I can I know I like her because I like someone that doesn't give a shit because she just she says what she thinks. E if sheven's not the PC, it's not the answer is going to piss people off . She says it. Like do you know I know from people that know her, we have mutual friends. I know she's a good girl because it's like otherwise people I know wouldn't talk so hardly of her. But is there ever since any time something comes out of her mouth when you think, Oh fuckin' out, here we go. Oh, probably every week. I mean, we have a running joke that I'm like, and there's my career sailing down the round cancelled. I mean, we have a running joke. We're like, have we survived another week not being cancelled? I mean, I love someone that is like unapologetically to themselves. Well, I think this is honestly the magic of Luana, because we are kind of the opposites of each other and yet we have such a united threat I think without getting all coachy on you again, but we have the same values and that is your core at your core. Yeah, but she also hangs around like at her core people that she's known for really a long time. She's a very, you know, keep s it close, you know, she likes to just, she likes what she likes and she's very family oriented, as am I. Both our families get on extremely well. But at the same time, I think the magic of Luanna is that's the point and if I was to sit there and I like her to be who she is and she can say what she wants to say and yeah sometimes it's totally outrageous and you think oh my god but that is who she is. And I think you either love it or you hate it. But for Luanna, it really works. It fucking works. And I would never censor her as she would never censor me. And I mean she takes the piss out of me for the mental health stuff. Yeah, you know, I take the piss out of her for just being utterly ridiculous at times. And at the core of it, we love each other to pieces. And I think what is key is that we just, you do you, hun, and I've got your back always. I've always got her bike and she's always got mine. Beautiful. Always. I couldn't have you here on her without letting my listeners . My listeners love a freebie. We all do. So they'd love a little bit of free therapy. If you could give us some top line baby takeaways. So we did a little question box on Olivia's House Instagram and pick some faves because there was a lot guys wasn't there. The people a lot of people in the trenches out there. It's the pits. Okay , fifteen year age gap between partner with five years. The sex has just died out and it's all about his pleasure when it does happen . How do I get it back on track? Okay, so I mean age gap relationships, I'm not sure if 's older or he's older . I yeah typically age gat relationships tend to be, you know, male, female, you know, him older, but not always . I'd say there's definitely something going on in a sense of obviously they're lacking in some form of emotional connection. And often when there is a lack of physical connection it',s because there is something missing emotionally and there's and the communication is missing. I mean, it's I could give a very, very long answer, but I think my first port of call would be you've got to confront it. I was going to say confront the elephant in the room, but that was conjuring up all sorts of images there . But I would say sorry, I'm now making a very trivial situation to something even more . I think it's very common , particularly if you're older, and if he is older, older guys do experience more lacking in libido, erectile dysfunction . Who knows what's going on for him? I think the two of you need to have a really honest conversation, a kind conversation, don't be accusatory, don't lay into each other, don't lay into him what he's doing wrong . Come at it from an with these things in communication is coming at it from an I perspective. I'm feeling like our sex life is really lacking at the moment or I'm feeling I need more from our sex life. Our sex life is shit. Exactly. Or I've noticed that you've been finding it difficult to, you know, have, you know, sex with me, but you've been ferring over there. Can we know it's making me feel a little bit whatever the emotion is you're feel ing as opposed to, yeah. Why are you doing that over there? I'm feeling that's the best way to start the approach is what I would say. Good advice . I'm twenty one years old. I've been in a relationship for two years and my boyfriend refuses to share any financial information with me. It worries me a lot and when I ask questions he's super defensive and says it's none of my business . But it worries me for the future. I expect transparency so we can align on life goals. What do you think? Yes, absolutely. It's a big red flag. Lack of transparency around key parts of relationship does include financial. I'm not suggesting this is at all. No , but financial abuse in relationships is a very underreported part of domestic abuse or relationship relationship issues . So I wouldn't for one minute suggest that is happening, but it's definitely something to be very clear about . And again , coming from an I perspective , letting her partner know what she expects and what she needs from a relationship. Now we don't have to be fully discl ose everything from a financial position. You know, I think a lot of there's no hard rule on this either with finances and relationships, but a lot the most commonly adopted is, you know, my account, your account, join account if you're in that sort of setup, which seems to work for a lot of people . Some people I know pull everything into one, some other people very successfully have their own independence. The key here is are you both okay with it ? If you're not both okay with it, that's a problem. So I think if he's withholding , I would want to understand why . Is it because he's controlling? Is it because he's got debt? Is it because he's not trusting? What is the issue? For me, that would be the question first. I need this from the relationship. It's not happening. I'd like to understand why. Because something that I've learned over my, you know, God's been dating since I was fifteen years old that I never would have thought about ten years ago is, you know, my two things I always thought about dais anding do I fancy them ? Are we sexually compatible? There go. Like financial incompatibility, like life goals, all that stuff. Like how does your partner value money? What do they think we should spend money on? And are they because actually you just when, you're younger you don just't think about these things. But no one teaches a teacher to live. Like how many teachers do they save? Do they gamble? Do they splurge? Do they want to spend their money's on holidays and live in a smaller house? Or do they want a massive house and never leave the country? What are their experiences with money growing up, you know, someone comes from a house. Did you come from a family that had debt issues, that had scarcity, had no money, or did you come from a family that had it in abundance? All of these are huge conversations when you get together something in a committee relationship. Finances and children and life goals are the key conversations you need. You just don't think about what you know . You don't. My last relationship for my husband, I loved him so much , but we never had the conversation around children we. never And had , I think finances was actually , well, we never really had the conversation and we should have done. But we didn't have those big conversations. And then what happens is you get so far into it and you realize you're totally misaligned . No one has to be right or wrong, but you can't also make something fit. And that's why they have those conversations now. So true . It's a very generalized broad one here, but talk to me. Porn usage in relationships, porn consumption as a therapist, what do you think about it? Again, I guess broad umbrella isn't it? A broad umbrella? I mean, you've done work yourself around in exposing porn. I think again, there's nothing wrong with porn I'm definitely not here to shame porn usage. I mean I have, you know , you know, we think it's I think when it I think it's in what context . I think sometimes it can be really fun and really, you know, it could be fun and sexy to watch all together. Sometimes you're not in the mood and you know, you don't mind your partner you know having a quick Tommy tank watching a bit of por an or whatever, I don't find it, it's not a problem for me. No, but there are some people that do find it really offensive or find it as though it's a breach of trust within a relationship. Again, I think it's looking at what is your sexual intimacy and compatibility like with your partner , what is the porn? Because I think there's very different scales of what porn is and what you thought and have an open conversation about it because what I think about porn, you know, it wouldn't bother me if my husband wanted watch it, you know , with me, without me. But if he was watching it excessively and excluding me from having an intimate relationship that would be a problem. Consuming it in place of having sex. Exactly. what I I mean',ve learned so much from doing my shows, but I mean it's fascinating created to be addictive. Yes, it is. So I think it should be yeah, approached with caution . Yes. I think cherry on the cake, you know, like you have a drink. Yeah, you know, like you have it's just a kind of every now and again, you know, have a little bit of fun. It's the morning or Tuesday. Right. You're in the work toilet, and then you're going home and she's asking for sex and you don't know and you don't want it inst.e Andad you're, going and you're consuming some hardcore porn inblazing that 's an issue. But that is where a lot of porn addiction is huge. And it isn't talked about enough actually. But yeah, I think it's very independent depending on the relationship, it's absolutely taking over then it's an issue. How do I navigate dating someone who has kids and I don't have any myself? I think dating somebody with kids comes with with having to compromise . And I think that's really important to recognise. I think well, one in three families now are blended families. One in three. One in three. Wow. So there's a very big chance you're going to date someone Yeah, I mean if I became single tomorrow particularly my age in my forties it's a very huge chance the next person that I might meet would have children . It's important to always put the children first. I think children are always the innocent party in relationship breakdown and do come with a lot of factors that need to be considered . However , not to the detriment of both people having personal time being able to curate a new relationship as well. I think a lot of communication, a lot of boundaries, and a lot of carving out couple time is really important . It's not easy for a lot of people, but it can also be hugely enriching. For every story of Oh my go, theyd had kids. It was a nightmare because you know, I didn't like their parenting style or I never got to see them more always have their kids. I also know various people have gone, oh my gosh, best thing that ever happened to me was meeting my partner who had children and now my life is totally enr iched . I think again it's about fitting into someone's life and creating and just being aware that there are more people in this relationship than just the two of you. Yeah, I think that's the key. Because you'll when always there's kids involved, there's always an X somewhere . And that's just the harsh, that's just the reality of it. Yeah, for sure . Right, I can't have you here and not ask you for a bit of advice myself. Oh right. Where are we going with this one then? Right. So know what you know about me from our mutuals and from having this chat today . If I was coming into the agency again what was that an ask Liv you want to come on SlebSka's dating again? I'd fucking I'd actually make it happen. I'd actually fucking love to because I have to say much for it. If I can't make it, it's the agency again. If they don't allow me to time my schedule . What would you be wanting me to look for my next partner ? Who would you be thinking OK, I'm going to look at these men here and these are the things that I'm going to look for for Olivia . From the tip bits you've told me, I mean I'd love to go on a complete journey. I would love that. But from what you've told me, I think have in your past, maybe deep back in your past. I'm not genuinely not referring to anyone at all because I don't know. But I am hearing there has been a lot of hurt and a lot of not being with great partners . And I think and I know you are you remind me a little bit of Gabby actually, Gabby Allen, how he had Gabby come in the series, as in just bossing it in life . Like everything else was just on point, just absolute first class . But yet when it tapped into the relationship, suddenly there was the self esteem chinks of light that needed some help . I think you probably present as avoidant . That's not to say that being in a relationship with another avoidant doesn't work. In fact, actually two avoidants can work very well. They respect and appreciate independence . Not to the detriment though of having those hard conversations and big conversations and making them happen to create connectivity . But I would put you with somebody that allows you to fly . Anyone that even rem otely clips your wings ? No, room one hundred and one . Someone that is happy to sit back , cheerlead you, recognize you for everything you do, respect and appreciate an independent woman and is happy to carve out their own niche over there without needing to be too intertwined. That's what I would say. I mean, that's kind of where I've got to with trying to work it out myself a little bit as well. I think somebody that is a you in a male form , where you can both cheerlead each other but you don't need to be in each other's pockets but there is a I think the key for you would be though is really making sure that that trust and the you stuff, the conversations that nobody else has right now I'm like, I'm never going to trust anyone again. Right? That's where I'm at. That's the key. And I think trust is going to be the problem the problem. Let's not call it a problem. Yeah, it's the challenge. Not impossible. No , because I think you are emotionally very intuitive. And I think if you have somebody else, it's also happy to do the work and go there to recognize , I think own your vulnerability in those private spaces and really allow yourself to be in those and keep them just for you . Keep them just for you and I think that is where you will thrive . Thank you. You're welcome. I like that . Anna, who do you think I should offer membership to? Who should I have sat in your seat next? Who would you like to see her? He had PCB in? Do you know what? Not to Olivia's house. He came on my old podge and we had a great chat. Do you think I should get him in? I reckon PCB or Reed Wilson. Tom. You need old Tommy Tucker Tom Tyler say Tom thought of Tom. You need Tom Reed Wilson. I mean, everyone needs an education. Those eyelashes. I mean, the most beautiful man in the entire world. This man at the University like it, they're real. And they're literally like, oh my gosh, okay, that's a really good one. Tom, you need to get Tom. And who we banning? Probably my husband because he knows way too much. Now I want him on. Now I want a spicy sicil onian to tell me all your secrets about you shitting in the toilet and blocking downstairs. I mean it will be permanent. Although if it's not a person, I was thinking about this. If it wasn't someone to ban, it's something to ban. Because it's happened to me as I was walking in here , voice notes that go on for five and a half minutes when it needs to be twenty seconds . Keep it succinct or like delete and start again . No one's got time. I don't have time. I just need it. My life. I needed the answer to what time tomorrow. And then the information is buried in this podcast that you have Oh yeah, I'm with you. That yeah, excessive voice excessive voice and as we said, we couldn't stop talking. I could honestly recall for like three more hours we were run out of things so like your like everything about your energy, what you bring to a room, what you bring to yourself to go dating, your ness, your vulnerability, I adore you. Everything I thought you'd be more. Ditto. And I had the best experience, honestly, and I just hope you did as well. Bave, I honestly, you have exceeded my expectations. I love to do that. And I'm firmly a live fan. And I really mean that. Thank you for having me. I don't often talk about parts of my life , not because I don't want to, but I have to genuinely like and trust that person and genuine there's no one else that knew that I would be happy enough to talk to. Thank you so much and willing everyone Bet MGM is adding a new friend to the group. Check out Friends, the one with a bursting bonus only at Bet MGM Casino. Casino thrills are bursting, only available at Bet MGM Cas