Practical Tips for Daily Awe

Oh, look at this. This is a special episode of Oligies, I'm very excited about. And it's brought to you by the lovely vacation rental service, Verbo. And today this is all about awe, as you have probably noticed from the title. And we're gonna talk about exactly what awe is. But you've probably felt it if you've ever stopped in your tracks to go, whoa , and felt connected to something bigger. Especially if you've ever seen something you've never seen before or you've trav traveleled, is one of the easiest ways to really stock up on those aw-filled moments and share it with other people. So we're gonna talk about how that works in the brain actually. And Virgo, thank you for sponsoring this. They make it easy to bring your people together in one place so you can actually share those experiences. And they work hard to get everything right before you arrive. And if something does go wrong, Verbo Care and 24-7 customer support are there to help make it right. The people on your trip are full of surprises, not your verbo. So book your next day on the Vir. I just did. Literally. Oh hey, it's the sidewalk chicken bone your dog yearns for. Allie Ward. This episode is nearly a decade in the making. I don't even want to waste time on an intro, but I'm gonna roll through this allogist's cred as fast as I can . Ph D, Stanford University, cool as hell, dude. Distinguished professor of psychology at UC Berkeley's Social Interaction Laboratory. Chill. Founder and co-director of the Greater Good Science Center, author of several textbooks and books just for regular people, most recently a book called Awe, The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Also very nice, host of the dazzling podcast, The Science of Happiness, worked to stop solitary confinement at San Quentin Prison, researcher whose papers have been cited over 100,000 times. So a dream. After years, years of hoping to have homologies, but schedules just being difficult to wrangle, we finally joined up by video call and despite all of his awards and life-changing work, he just hopped on casually, just got chin length, blonde hair, a very easy aura . You could easily m mistake him for a guy who spends his days drumming bongos on a beach, but he is very busy, and I was thrilled to finally meet him and chat about awe. And the word awe it shares a root of course with awesome and also awful but like all words there's been a lot of elasticity over time and this allogist has defined the word awe as a perceived vastness, or more specifically, as he recalls in his books, defining it with early colleagues. Awe is the feeling of being in the presence of something vast that transcends your current understanding of the world. Whew, so let's get into it and we're gonna discuss awe's origins in the brain, where to find awe, noticing it when you feel it, novel experiences, boulevards, graffiti, modern day connections, how a dark sky can change a life, goosebumps at concerts, why remembering awe can fix your day, how even the toughest moments of life can be awful filled, getting an elbow thrown at you in good fun, and why thinking about lettuce can make me cry. With author, professor, researcher, podcast host, and really cool guy who is changing how we think about mental health, Dr. Dakar Keltner . Dakard Keltner, he and him. I know that you know a lot about facial expressions. And so it's nice to be on video with you. You have studied facial expressions and I'm wondering when you're talking about awe, how do we recognize it in other people and in ourselves? Is it just like a dropped jaw? What's going on ? Yeah, you know, and it's actually a really deep question because awe is often for people when they experience it, it's ineffable. It's hard to describe. It's so amazing. It's beyond your knowledge. Like, how in the world can we make sense of this? And so one way that we know someone else is experiencing awe is through what I've studied for 35 years in the the spirit of Paul Ekman and Charles Darwin, which is the face, like, oh, you know, uh the voice, which I just made. So Ali , what would you sound like if you felt awe? Um uh I would there'd be squealing it probably be like ah Well probably that probably something high pitched and uh in a dolphin language. Excellent. Well that has a little that has the awe sound in it, which I hope our audience heard of like, ah uh but it also had a little bit of squeal of delight. Yeah, so around the world, we call those vocal bursts. They're very meaningful sounds that are old in evolution. And around the world, people are like, whoa . And so we know when someone's feeling awe with those signs . And then, you know, just as importantly is how do I know I'm feeling awe, right? And so it's been interesting talking about all for a couple of years because people often say like, I kind of know what you're talking about. Like I saw this incredible sunrise, but is that awe? And we know it from our bodies, right? This rush of goosebumps, which is a very specific kind of accompaniment to awe, the feeling of warmth in the chest, which is your vagus nerve. People tear up a lot. You know, I was just talking to some friends whose, you know, when you watch your children perform in school, you know, you just start weeping. And that's a bodily response ball that tells us in very interesting ways this is a transcendent moment of the emotion. And I know you begin your book with a really beautiful tale that moved me very much about um the death of your brother and witnessing that and how that was a moment of pure awe. And so awe is not always something that is a joyous occasion, but it's just bigger than us . That's so important because, you know, in the science of happiness that I've been part of for 30 years, we've studied pleasure and jo y. And now the field is getting interested in experiences that really are beyond our understanding, which we might think of as like meaning making. And awe in some sense is the quintessenti al experience of like I, don't understand why my brother passed away, or what is life, or the cycles of life and death that are part of spring and evolution, or the stars in the sky when kids ponder space, and that's all. Right. It's like, God, how do I start to integrate what's beyond my understanding into my view of the world and just to return to wonder and and I know that you ask participants in studies about moments to recall some of their widest experiences of awe, you know, something that stuck with them. And I'm curious if you find that there's a lot of connection to other people that happens, or if it's purely visual or if it's sonic. When I think about some of my biggest moments of awe, I feel like they're shared experiences. You know, when you're in a movie theater, when you're watching something funny with someone else and you're laughing out loud more than you would, you know, when how does awe impact our personal relationships? Yeah. That's such a terrific question and observation, Allie. You know, we surveyed 26 different countries, had people write stories of awe. We coded them and placed them into what I call the eight wonders, which is music, art, spirituality, nature , big ideas, the life cycle, music, and collective movement. But it's fascinating, and you've really brought something new, which is that in some fundamental way, the transcendent quality of all of these experiences occurs because we're connecting and merging with other people. So, you know, music's a classic example. Like a Swifty goes to a Taylor Swift concert, sees Taylor come on stage, and suddenly is merging with 15,000 people and having a sense of transcendent self, right? Average crowd size, I looked this up, actually 70,000 people. That's so many vibes. We find, we do research in museums like the National Gallery and some science museums. And very often, even you're looking at a painting and you're kind of sharing that experience with somebody and suddenly your minds are merging. So in a lot of ways, uh collective effervescence is emerging, right? It's where you're at a sporting event or you're dancing with people and our bodies sync up. We start to mimic each other or mirror each other physiologically. And I love the the psychological effects of that because you really feel like wow, I'm a shared mind here. There's something beyond me that's real. And it is. I'm wondering too in your research if you were to put someone in a functional MRI and show them pictures or have them recall, do we know where the brain is going? Yeah, we do. We we know the big story right now, and you know, this will refine with more precise measurement and better statistics , is the default mode network, which is big chunks of your cortex on the side in the front, which is about the self, tends to deactivate when you feel awe. And that's where neuroscience is really illuminating because when you ask people about awe, they say like, I get quiet, I feel small, we did research on that, you just get kind of small. You feel like, you know, in psychedelics, like, I'm dissolving, I'm just, there's no me, you know. And lo and behold, in the brain, the me starts to disappear. And it's interesting that you can that you can channel a little bit of that even with a walk and our sense of almost like a small ego death, maybe. Yeah. And you know, uh across all experiences, people talk about like, wow, my sense of self got small. I didn't hear that voice of like, you know, what are you doing right now? And are you achieving your goals? And the self-critique so common today. And in our psychedeliology episode with the legend, the legend Dr. Charles Grobe of UCLA, he told us that this default mode network is tasked in the central nervous system to hold it together and to ruminate on things and to be somewhat obsessive, somewhat negativistic, he said, although the default mode network is not just like a little bitch that lives in your brain. It's highly active when someone is essentially in their head, not focused on the outside world and is mind wandering or daydreaming or concerned about just getting stuff done. To paraphrase the twenty eighteen paper, default mode network can support the level of detail and experience during active task states. And the default mode network stitches your experiences together to say, This is who I am, this is what's going on. And in terms of understanding its role, neuroscientists observe brain activity in subjects on psilocybin therapy and have found in those pharmacological settings the default mode network goes a bit offline and then recalibrates to be far less active, so less in their heads, leading people with this greater sense of connectivity to things outside of themselves, as Dr. Grobe explained it to us. But you need not trip all the way out to experience this. You do all the time. You probably just don't notice. That's all part of this default mode network, big chunks of your cortex. And awe reduces activation there. And what's really cool, you know, and this is why we do neuroscience, is that's what happens with psychedelics. That's what happens with intense musical experiences, the deactivation. That's what happens in nature and awe. It tells us how wonderful it is to lose the self in all of these wonders of life. So losing the connection to self, as it turns out, is incredibly good for our brains. What's not great is losing connection to others. Do you think that in the last six years since uh quarantine with COVID and and things like that, do you find in your research that people are more isolated, that they're not spending as much time with the people they love or with strangers or people watching , has that research changed? When I follow the isolation loneliness data and you know, COVID was a a tough hit, especially for young people, 18 to 30, really took a hit during COVID in terms of connections and community, what we've been talking about. And Vivek Murphy, our sur former surgeon general, is saying this is an epidemic and it's spreading to different parts of the world, largely because of scrolling and looking at Instagram, you start to feel lonely. And one of the findings I'm most proud of is that a little moment of awe, suddenly you don't feel lonely. You can go listen to an awe-inspiring piece of music. You can go out in nature. You can sort of think of a person of moral beauty to you who inspires you. You'll feel like, God, I'm part of humanity. And that's an antidote to the loneliness. Even one minute uh a day gets you out of loneliness. One minute a day? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, we work with healthcare providers for 21 days, one minute a day, we just said, stop everything you're doing. You're in a hospital, put away your devices, think of a moment of awe, and we guided them and it reduced anxiety, depression, and loneliness. So So filling up your awe bank to look back on can help even l on later days when you're feeling lonely or anxious or depressed. Honestly, I'm thinking of this trip that I went on with friends a few years ago is one autumn and it was the early evening before Thanksgiving dinner, the sun was going down, and we went out to the garden and we picked fresh vegetables. And there was so much to smell and look at, and just thinking of it gives me like goosebumps and a lump in my throat. And I never knew until this interview that that feeling was awe. Just making this family dinner with people I really love and I don't get to see enough. And just one of my favorite life memories, just strolling and picking pomegranates and arugula. And I know you go on awe walks, you say every day. Yeah. I one thing that was so interesting to me that I love that you talk about both of these is novel experiences versus familiar and that you can find them in both. And I I traveled a lot for work for a long time and I didn't travel for pleasure very much because I was on the road. You know, so I just started traveling again for pleasure with family members and husband and stuff. Why do you think being in those novel experiences is just such a daisy chain of awe moments? You know, the core to awe is when what you encounter is beyond your understanding in that moment of the world. I saw children, many you know, my experience raising my two daughters is like so much awe early in life because everything is new, right? The Buddhists talk about the beginner's mind of error try to make everything new to you and put away your pre-existing ideas and concepts and prejudices. And when you travel, what's extraordinary is everything is different. You know, I remember going to Europe when I was 16 with my brother, and it's just like, man, the garbage cans are different. And check out how small the garbage truck is. And you know, God, the men wear bright colors. I can't believe this, you know, and check out the mustaches. Totally. You know, and you're just like, wow , you know, and that's wonderful. And so the challenge of life is to try to find that as much as you can. That's so funny. I just got back from New York day before yesterday, and you know, just walking with music in my ears and how big the city is and that bigger than me and how everyone has a story and you know, walking on cobblestones and how old they were and who laid them and some of my awe moments, some of those moments that almost bring a tear to my eye have been in unexpected proximity to friends. Are you more conscious about who you're spending time with or who you're experiencing these big moments with? You know, Ali, I love your inquiry because what you're saying, and I think you're really right, which is that underlying the awe of music or visual art or a big idea or getting out in nature is emerging, right? Emerging with another form of life or another form of consciousness. And in his twenty twenty three book Awe, The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life, Dr. Keltner goes into more depth on those eight wonders of life, which he formally lists as moral beauty, like other people's courage or kindness or strength, collective effervescence, experiencing something in a big group, nature, music, visual design, and he cites in his book the Grand Boulevards of Paris or a Mayan Pyramid or Graffiti of Barcelona. And he says for some, maybe a machine that sorts pills is a feat of visual design. He also cites spirituality and religion, life and death and epiphanies. And he writes that, and I thought this was so interesting, he says it also merits considering what was not mentioned in stories of awe from around the world. Money did not figure into awe much at all. No one, he says, mentioned their laptop, Facebook, Apple Watch, or smartphone, nor did anyone mention consumer purchases like their new Nikes, Tesla, Coochie Bag, or Montblanc Pen. And he continues, awe occurs in a realm separate from the mundane world of materialism, money, ac quisition and status signaling, a realm beyond the profane that many call the sacred. And the most fundamental is is with other humans, you know, your best friends and your your children and your partners. One of the things that I write about in the book is that the neurophysiology of Aug is fascinating. It's transcendent. The vagus nerve is activated, oxytocin is released, your parasympathetic, calming, opening branches to your nervous system are activated, giving rise to tears. And that's the neurophysiology of merging early in life. When you come into life and you look up at the caregivers around you and you make eye contact and you really merge. And I think at the core, as you've rightly suggested, is listening to music, we think of it as our own interior experience, but in fact it's really a merging with the sounds and the person who made the sounds, the band, the people appreciating it. So I think merging is key. And you know what a desperately needed experience right now. You know, we're so asynchronized with others because of the technologies, and awe gives us that merging, which is transentcend really. I think back to the times when I was a Bay Area youth in mosh pits and I was like some of those biggest moments. Oh yeah, you're getting to a sweet spot of mine. You know what I mean? You're literally moving like fish in a school bouncing to the same music, and it's bigger than you can even imagine, you know? Yeah, no. Mosh pit. Every human should go into a mosh pit. I know, I know. And I love that finding because mosh pits actually are very collaborative. They look like chaos, but they're they're mathematically very principled and people move around and lose their selves and they have an ethical code to them. And they tell us humans hunger for this collective movement. Now you do not have to inhale someone else's hair or sweat to feel awe. But you should. You should do it at least once. Just don't get hurt. And if like industrial death core is not your thing, then keep an eye out for awe in some smaller quieter moments, like a train ride on a Tuesday or afternoon rain some Thursday or a summer Sunday morning. It's everywhere you look. Apparently you just have to take notice. We wanna feel merging with others and sharing and movement. And what I love is the reemergence of these processes like farmers markets. Do you go to a farmer's market? Oh, I love them. When you go to a farmer's market and you're like, they have huckleberries here? Huckleberries are real? You know, like all of these things, like night markets. What the heck is a cinnamon roll? I know. No, it's so exciting. And you never know what things are gonna taste like. Yeah, not only that, and that's the novelty of all, but then you're like you're listening to the the little kids play music and you're, you know, somebody gives you some fresh tail and you see the next person in the eyes and you give somebody a hug and somebody's reading poetry, and next thing you know, you're like, there's a lot of awe here and a lot of collective life. So it's it's a deep need that we have. And what I loved about studying awe is here it is this transcendent experience and usually associated with spirituality and and uh but it really is everywhere. And so we gotta remember that. Let's talk about everywhere, like outside in just a minute. But first let's donate to a cause of this Ollologist choosing. And this week Dr. Keltner chose the Bay Area Freedom Collective. It's a grassroots project. They're doing amazing work. It ensures that community members returning from prison are connected to the resources and support they need to be safe, healthy, and empowered as they rebuild their lives. And the Bay Area Freedom Collective provides rides, a safe and sober home, connections, community outreach, and everyday support, and raises awareness about the impact of incarceration on And the Bay Area Freedom Collective, again, it's a great cause and that donation is only possible because of sponsors of the show. So we're able to make a considerable contribution to them this week. So thank you to Ver bo for sponsoring today's episode. It has been very cool to look back and think about the times I've felt awe and the times I felt really connected to people and connected to something bigger than me. And so many of those have been traveling. We're sitting here talking about how money and material possessions aren't the things that inspire awe, but it's nature and it's music and its epiphanies and it's that collective effervescence that you have around people. And I think that's why trips do feel so meaningful because you're stepping outside your routine. You're experiencing something together. You're remembering how big the world is. You're remembering how we're just a little part of it. Which when you get home helps you not sweat the small stuff. And actually, just this week, I booked a Virgo vacation rental to go on a girls' trip with two of my girlfriends. One of them's having a birthday. And she's a big birder. And I found a place on Virgo. You're not even gonna believe this. This is just a true personal experience here that was tailored to bird watchers. No joke. The bedspreads have birds on them, all the pictures on the wall, gorgeous wildlife photography. It's next to a birding hotspot and miles and miles of trails on protected land. She has no idea we're going. I found this place on Verbo. I freaked out. I sent it to my other friend. The exclamation points in the text thread. Excessive but warranted. So I'm so excited. We're going to go there this weekend for her birthday, and I'm really stoked to think about the dark skies I'm gonna see, the birds, the hiking, the laughs we're gonna have. It's exactly what I need, and I know she's gonna dig it. So Virgo is built for that kind of connection, giving you a space to come back to and share those moments, whether it's recounting the day or cooking together or just being in the same place. And it definitely helps remove some of the stress that can come with planning group travel. They focus on getting the details right ahead of time. And if something unexpected happens, VerboCare and their 24-7 support team are there to help. So you can stay focused on those awe moments and birds and stars in my case. So you can check out the Verbo app for your next group trip. You deserve it. It's scientifically good for you. Okay, let's talk about the birds and the bees, but really just going outside. Can we talk a little bit about nature and quiet sometimes? Yeah, unless you're next to a roaring waterfall. But yeah, what what is it about nature that gives us that sense ? You know, I and I continue to study this, so one of our most common sources of awe worldwide is nature. You know, big trees and oceans and the pattern of waves and electrical storms and the big night sky. There's work by Troy Allen in Utah on just like getting people out to look at the big sky. So Dr. Troy Allen, I just looked him up. He's at Utah State University Extension and he specializes in mental health and nature-focused programs for veterans and for rural populations, including teens. And for more on whose work you can see the 2026 paper Time, Vastness and Belonging, Outcomes from a Teen Dark Sky Curriculum Pilot in Colorado. So it's essentially hey, it works to take kids out to look at the sky and see something bigger than what's on their phone. But if you're like, shoot , Utah's too far and there's no way anyone would believe I'm a high school sophomore. Don't worry. You could always take a little road trip to a dark sky area, or you just sit on the porch, check out a meteor shower. You can look at the next full moon. You can go glamping. Just go outside, feel some air, smell some plants. You know, and the stars. In England they have the cloud spotting society. Just nature is filled with awe. It's so remarkable, Allie. A lot of our sensory systems are finely tuned to feel awe in response to nature. So when we hear running water, we feel awe. When we smell the fragrances of cedar trees and flowers we feel off big stars and skies. And I think the thinking is like that kind of helps us locate in a place that is safe and has a lot of resources for us to survive, right? Is that sense of beauty and awe about nature. You know, and talking about awe so much, people are like, what do I do? And I'm like, yeah, yeah. Listen to a piece of music that brings you tears and get outdoors and look at a flower or look at a tree or look at the sunset, wherever you are, and find art and make it a practice. And nature is so good for us, so good for us. I love that you have even a graphic representation of that in the book where you had people draw a picture of themselves in nature versus not in nature. And they were tiny in the in what they drew in nature , which is great. I love that study. Yeah. You know, and then ordinarily like you take you were in the center and you're this big thing. And and then in our the other version of that is in the awe walk study where if you just build in a little mystery to your daily walk, you start to feel more awe, and we ask people to take photos of themselves, and the self starts to drift off to the side of the photo because you're not aware of yourself. You're like, what's behind me? That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, this is such a self-focused era. You know, the sociologists have documented this, Instagram, take pictures of the self. And it's good to get away from it. I was so heartened reading your book because I would think for someone who studied happiness for so long that you started out very chill and happy. And literally in the intro, you're like, I'm pretty anxious. You were, you know, and pretty anxious and somewhat neurotic person, which relatable. So it's really heartening to see your research. And again, Dr. Keltner has a staggering body of research, authored or co-authored nearly 300 publications, written several books, including on the topics of living a meaningful life and what that means psychologically and on power struggles and then his book Awe, The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life is a really great read or listen if you're an audiobook person. It's a great science and really beautifully written. And the book is so, so good. It's not even a topic that I would have thought could be studied. And I don't think it w it was very studied, you know , initially. It's just a beautiful, like, how much wonder can really change our lives. Any final tips on getting in that one minute moment a day Yeah, and you know, thanks for bringing that up because, you know, uh I wrote this book after my brother had passed away, who was my companion in awe, and I was in deep grief. Um and it never leaves you and and awe really helped me and and I was a really anxious O C D panic in my thirties, like lots of panic attacks. Um even though I looked like a stone surfer, but I don't surf and I don't smoke marijuana. So, you know. So awe really at most stages of my life really helped me uh in profound ways. And over the years, I realized like I've built up an awe practice. And so what I tell people is: for a few minutes a day, take those wonders of life and give yourself a little space. You could be driving, you could be quietly sitting somewhere, put away your phone, just calm and take a deep breath and listen to a piece of music that really means a lot to you, you know. Oh, I gotta listen to that song by the Beatles or whatever it is for me. It's Brian Eno. And take a moment or two and find some places nearby you where you can go and experience nature. I'm lucky in Berkeley. It can be a stream, redwood tree. We had a teacher in the Bronx who took her kids to the one patch of lawn in the in her area of the Bronx, and they sat and took it in. So find a little bit of nature . Maybe it's the sunset. I love, you know, I'm really obsessed with moral beauty now. And just think of someone who inspires you, you know, and just like dwell on what they look like, what their eyes are like. How do they speak to you ? Right. Who's somebody for you, Ali , that inspires you? Oh my gosh. You know, I know that it's uh trite, but I will say my husband is one of the most creative and big hearted and justice oriented little weirdos. He's a weird guy and he's very himself. And he r he writes poetry that he performs. And I'm just like, how did that come out of him? Yeah. How is that just there ? And that's exactly the inquiry, which is like just think of people like in your present moment, like a colleague or my mom, you know, or oh my God, I had this autistic student who did so much. Just focus on that. That's really good for you. You know, I love visual, the visual world and millions of people go to museums and pick a painting and just look at it slow ly. The book has guidance, the Greater Good Science Center has guidance. It's easy to find. And find five minutes a week to do that kind of thing. Mm-hmm. Thank you so much for talking to me. You have been someone I have been so nervous and so excited to chat with for so so long. And your book is astounding. It's so wonderful. Again, it's such a privilege and an honor to talk to you. You're doing some of the coolest work out there. Big fan. Thank you. Means a lot. I really appreciate you saying that. So seriously. So thank you so so much to Dr. Daker Keltner for taking the time to chat. I'm never gonna forget it. It was worth the wait. And we're gonna link his book on awe in the show notes as well as his website. And we'll have more links up at our website. We are at ALOGES on Instagram and Blue Sky. I'm at Allie Ward with one L on both. We have kid friendly episodes called SMLOGES available wherever you get podcasts. Thank you, Aaron Talbot, for admitting the ology's podcast Facebook group. Aveline Malik makes our professional transcripts. Kelly R D.wyer does the website. The Timeless Noel Dilworth is our scheduling producer. Susan Hale takes care of vast responsibilities as managing director and breathtaking editors who snip out my breaths . Our Jake Chafee and lead editor Mercedes Maitland? Additional editing by the incomparable Jarrett Sleeper, who is also my husband. He is a world wonder. Cool nude. Nick Thorburn made the theme music, and if you stick around till the end, you know I tell you a secret. And this week there's two. One is that the ending stinger this week is like a little musical recap from the episode with accompanying tunes composed by our own Jake Chafey, who is J E C music on YouTube if you look him up. Jake makes these really delicate and haunting and sweet compositions. And I know for a while he was live streaming it, but you can find him at jec music.com. So that's jec music.com. He did not ask me to shout him out, and I have a feeling he's going to be blushing, but his music is beautiful. Also, second secret was that I was working on this episode today. I was eating a spring roll at a nearby restaurant, but I really only wanted half the order because I also got a huge salad. And spring rolls don't keep very well. And I was like, I wish I could have gotten a half order. And I sat there with my laptop at a noodle restaurant and a guy walked past the window when we made eye contact, and it was an old friend, my friend Dave. And we waved and I waved him in, even though honestly, I had a zit and bleary eyes from yet another wildfire here in LA. But whatever. And he came in and he sat down and I was like, You want some of these spring rolls? And he's like, Hell yeah. We split an order of spring rolls. We caught up for like a good fifteen minutes before he had to jam for work. I I honestly would have kept my head down because I was a mess and I was working, but I remembered this conversation with Dacker and how we just don't sit and talk and catch up as much anymore and it was really lovely. So there's that. And then on the walk home, I saw a cute little lizard. And I was like, hey man, all those lizards, where are they sleeping right now? There's like asleep lizards. It's nighttime. There's just a think of all the lizards sleeping right now. That's that's awe I'm feeling. Okay, bye-bye . For a few minutes a day, take those wonders of life and give yourself a little space. Could be quietly sitting somewhere, put away your phone, just calm and take a deep breath and listen to a piece of music that really means a lot to you. Find some places nearby, you where you can go and experience nature. Maybe it's the sunset. Think of someone who inspires you, you know, and just like dwell on what they look like, what their eyes are like. How do they speak to you ? Who's somebody for you ? Wasn't that lovely music? Again, thanks to Jake for that. And thanks to Virbo for sponsoring today's special bonus episode. It was really quite a thrill to make. Awe is just one of those things that reminds us like, oh, being alive is pretty neat. And it reminds us how powerful sharing an experience can be with strangers at a concert or watching the sunset or with the people that you love the most and when you're traveling with people you care about, those moments tend to stick even more. And with all the things we're told to prioritize these days, prioritizing awe seems like pretty solid choice. And getting out of your four walls if you can. And Virbo helps make those trips easier by giving you a reliable place to stay together. Plus, support if anything doesn't go as planned with Virbo Care and 24-7 customer service. The people on your trip are full of surprises, but not your Verbo. So book your next trip on the Verbo app