Filming Action and Visual Effects

Brendan Fraser, welcome to my on film with Kevin McCarthy podcast. happy to be here. I'm going to shake your hand because it's an honor to have you. We both got the TAan memo today. For some reason, we did not plan this. Congratulations to you on this film, and we're going dive into your incredible performance. I want to talk about your amazing career. But one of the beauties I always start off with with my show is this idea of the theatrical experience To me, there's nothing better than the magical experience of sitting in a theater with an audience just taking in a story And as I watch this film with an audience We all got out of the film afterwards and spoke in the lobby about The story that we had not known And I was truly amazed that like in twenty twenty six to like have a theater conversation with friends and people after the movie was over So I'm just curious for you growing up, what was that pivotal theatrical movie you saw that gave you the understanding of the pivotal nature of what movies can do in that communal experience? It was easy. was The one that transformed was Star Wars. Yeah. I can still remember the feeling I had of sort of disorientation Luke dives the X wing the end and he goes down into the Canyon And the camera work was, you know pretty rudimentic just one Diving. And it made it made me it gave me that roller coaster effect and Um You know, physically, I felt something on top of it being Star Wars, you know you're seven years old and the smells incredible thing you were evering Do you remember who you were with? My brother? Like would you remember leaving the theater and what you like were you just like in awe I wanted to do it again, wanted to talk about it, wanted to play it, it hydrated my imagination. It did everything that fantasy and storytelling do, whether it's a book or a movie or that was that wow eye opener for me. It was the one that made me think that, uh, Movies really can take us somewhere, make us feel things physically, you know I was watching Rental family with my wife before I came here today just and again Something a story that I was like, wy, this is such an interesting concept, but I feel so much empathy. But even though you're playing a part in that way, it kind of reminds me of acting. And I think what you're saying is like there's this beautiful connection we can have to the world through universal language of movies. And I remember when you won the Oscar, they said on the announcement that you saw a play of Oliver in the West End when you were a kid And that's what sparked your acting. So I was curious where that like what year was that? Because Star Wars was seventy seven? Like were you already thin about acting?noney. It would have been that. good point. That would have been because I lived in Europe, our family lived in Holland and we took Christmas and other holidays to go across the channel into London. And that's where I started seeing plays parks, shops, you know, experiencing This Kzian view of what London really meant and I fell in love with it, of course, and I can certainly remember noticing that when So cart gets upset on the stage because they're chasing the artful Dodger and the stage was just suddenly awash in I knew. T tennis balls painted red. But I knew but those are supposed to be apples. And I thought That is a great ide. That's how you do it. That simple theatrical conceit spoke to me. And that there was a little kid who reminded every little boy of themself anyway Who just wanted to be heard? I want more. Yeah, you bring up you bring that up. I mean it's interesting because like that's that's the illusion. That's the magic of storytelling and and filmmaking. And like, why was that one so pivotal? Do you remember leaving that? It meant that I had a feeling I knew I wanted to do that too I didn't know what that meant. I didn't Do doing that, but It's called a play, right? A play like play like you play like kids play And you learn like yeah, it's a reason why it's called to play because it's fun. one kid doesn't want to have that? to You know, come down to earth with a bump. the reality of school and of there all responsibilities that we all challenge ourselves through in our teen years It came to a head when I was in high school in Toronto And really the only reason that I was legitimately allowed to stay at that school is because I was with a little theater company carrying spears in the background. I't As long as I had a production to be a part of, then I felt I belonged You know, that's what we're all trying to do anyway, we We all feel like we have our nose up against the glass. And you want to get on the inside, you know and, um, I I was not invited back for my senior year, which went to grade thirteen in those days. This was Toronto And did they give a reason why you weren't invited back In the end, I think frankly, it was money. You know, I didn't have a they didn't do bursaries. My father's work was with tours in Canada. I think he changed jobs. It just know what I was told, but Needless to say, I was crest fallen atiddle least and, um, I had a well, what am I going to do now moments and u I said, I'm going to be an actor. I went to the yellow pages I lived in Seattle, Washington, where I looked up G the Cornish College of the Arts because I'd seen a commercial like a U public access quality commercial of actors and dancers and painters and U I looked that up And I got The veryer last, no more audition that Labor Day weekend because the new semester started on that Following Monday or Tuesday. And I came in on that Friday and u I don't even remember the monologue that I had to have prepared contrasting with A comic one with a classical one. I don't remember what I did. I thought Audition other than respond to instructions we were given on how to improvise and what you know they wanted They told me Okay, that chair there, it weighs five hundred pounds. Go try and pick it up. And so, you know, I grunted at it and Like Thor's hammer. Exactly. Yeah Sword and the stone here. thans to really, that's really all I remember. That and them asking, how are you going to pay for this Which the answer was simple, honestly, it was I took out student loans to the eyeballs, just like everybody else I got a pellgrants, I got collollege work study I worked I was accepted, by the way. I did four years I worked work I worked in dish pits. Barbecue joined and I parked cars. I worked in a balloon store I hustled. I really hustled and went to for year training program too in pursuit of a BFA. which U I complete it and it was their time. proudest moment. in by then twenty year old experience. I remember thanking my mom from the Dais And u From there I figured, well, what am I going to do next I had a few more auditions lined up. These were for U tuition and bursaries for Master's programs They were all over the country and they were held I think at long Long Beach, I can't remember the name of the organization that did it, but pretty much like all the major schools came and they scouted and you know, the the top or five from whichever school came auditioned Alasse and then they Like baseball scouts getave a callback. I remember seeing you in the scout. I mean in didid Bill Conti do that score? That was a great film, man. And that was a big movie for me as a kid. Wast it? Yes. Dude, you in the nineties was like like, I mean now, everything you're doing, but that's amazing to think about that that's how it what I'm hearing in all of your answers is this idea that you lived all over the world. It was transient. I have to imagine that gave you like a view into characters in a way It gave me a sense of tolerance for diversity also an appreciation for how very different we are from culture to culture I'm lucky to have had been in Europe the seventies U because You know, as as a as a Canadian kid Living in Holland I place where I soon learned that The Second World War was still very, very close to the surface for In everyone's living memory. Yeah. and My next door neighbor of house that we lived in was a duplex. Hour name was Mrs. Tonkins and my My Frisbee used to go over the wall all the time So I got to know her because I was always going around You know, retrieve my toys and GI Joess and stuff Um She was very kind And She showed me I would have tea with her and She showed me a painting. Very old. it was U a work of it Obscure Dutch master. I mean, it was proper like painting from sixteen hundreds of a still life And she said, this painting Well. was under the house And she showed me in the dining room because it was a duplex, it was a mirror image of the one we were in. On her side, and also I later learned on our side in our dining room was a trap door in the floor. I didn't know that But she showed me the trap door She opened it Wow, what is down there? There was sand. Remember we're in Holland here. so it's not unusual The surface is that I mean, someone so much conructionss on sand in Ho at least this part. And she said, We buried this painting in this sand right here hide it from the Nazis because they came through all these neighborhoods rounded everyone up and we all know the rest. And she did go to an internment camp, Lisbie concentration camp in Holland with her daughter, Um And they survived it, she said by eating tulip bulbs on Any other means bi. This this was You know, a woman who's in in her seventies, I guess. Um Who was speaking about these events? you know in a kid appropriate way. so that I know this is an adult. I could Ustand Where you are right now is a place that's in transransition The Dutch loved the Canadians because they came through U Flanders and Holland and liiberated Hoand and the Second World War, the Canadian troops came through first. So there's a very special one hence my father's work there He was with tourism government. Canada. And She explained to me the crack that ran from the ground floor the bricks all the way to the second floor of my brother's window which is on the third floor And it had been, you know, mortred over visibly, you know, red brick, gray mortar crack. I think she even pointed it out to me she said there's a crack on your side of this building which you had never noticed Maybe I did but I didn't lock it, you know, Same with the trap door No had no idea it was Yeahah. And uh It was from a buzz bomb that went off course or ran out of fuel And it dropped and it took out the neighborhood w streets over And that made sense to me you know, when that happened in the forties Um, then because I was cutting through people's kids' backyards to take shortcuts like you do when you're a kid. and I remember the houses that I went into, those were like houses, the modern looking houses because Dutch houses are very sort of chocolate box shapes often, you know, traditionally they go up steep staircases and And the new houses had greater sort of Western proportions. and then it made sense to me that all the houses were destroyed when that bomb went off That rocket went off rather in that neighborhood. And she talked about these events as if it was, you know, last Tuesday the clarity of it. So and I didn't know really at that time, but it became very real to me that there was a war. I did see The House of Anne Frankc at that age and it was not a You know, crowded tourist site necessarily and I did climbed to the floor and I did see the attic where she hid and on the ground floor in the sitting room, the opening room of the House S. Frank. there were then U series of photographs And the only one I can remember now was the one that spoke to me the most. It was a pile of shoes mountain shoes and it was So distressing to me. to consider that none of them matched They were men's shoes, they were women's shoes, they were children's shoes. They were different sizes different shoes Where the people? Why don't the people have the shoes? Why aren't The people wearing the shoes? Why are there whyy is there a pile of them? Who would put and that's when I grew to appreciate the magnitude of the cost Of war. and it was very You know, I was a child, but is very personal in that way As it was for, like I say the adults Sorry, the adults of the world that I was living in at that time too My father's secretary I think she was a polygot. She had facility for languages, but she refused to learn to speak German because she could still hear the commands Tr H time she spent interned And, you know, those kinds of This kinds of Those kinds of markers, those hooks were sort of dotted all along the experience of the time that I was there H. a u I remember when it was news that A mine left over from the war had washed up on Schreeningen Bech And it was a large spherical shape with spikes poking out of it. and the army came and they had to dispose of it. And it was big news that something was going to go bang But At the same time, It was kind of like, well, another one, you know U, So that that liivving going to England And seeing the statuary there, the monuments, Oh the u A the um um Imperial War Museum on South Bank and returning to see that again now through adults eyes as I researched for the film Pressure. Which is an incredible thing to think about because now you're playing a character who's essentially helping to be responsible for ending the war of the things that you were just talking about, the horrifying. That's kind of a wild full circle for you. I have to imagine that bring When you think back to being in Anne Franks room and you think about playing Dwindy Eisenhower in this film Is that Bridging those or that's an actor's job really, whether you're aware you're doing it or not, but you got to find a way to make it feel personal inar you and it It was something that definitely influenced me knowing that E Gisenhower. He cared deeply about his troops. He cared about the principle. He was His creed was duty. and She You know, he wanted to do the right thing, but get it done properly. He didn't suffer fools lately I acccounts have him having had it ten Fastuous Volcanic Demeanor when faced with suffering fools, but he He didnn't humiliate. He didn't, he would do that behind closed doors. If at all, if at all. Um, because he was the type of leader H solicited the views of Everyone involved in the situation, the operation, the joint chiefs of staff. He was he was a career a military man from the time that he was graduated from West Point. He He was the firstirst World War had ended before he could take up and go join. As a young man, he did get caught up in the romanticism as all young men did. And he was disappointed that he didn't get to join. But he was a military man. He for the next forty years, he was a brilliant strategist He was someone who people naturally followed. Um Kansas fararm boy. And he had He had a A real ability And it wasn't an affectation to connect with peopleeople in a real regular way. He talked about fly fishing to the airborne troops before they shipped out on D day. normalizing conversations at ease and also because he was passionate about fllyfising too. Yeah. And and you know, not all the leaders were were like him at all. you know, the moniker, I like Ike. It was not an accident just because it rhymes. grranted that Can wax poetic and say the most generous and kind things about a historical figure that we look back upon fondly We all must acknowledge that you know, he was a product of his time Um He was Oh. I believe in a sense Present ahead of his time when we consider look towards NASA That began with the with Eisenhower, Civil Rights Union. it u NATO. he was he was a leader who He didn't want to rub the he might have, but he didn't rub his enemies face in it when they were defeated He certainly defeated them partnered with them. made them allies. I mean, as an ideology alone, that was not P it I'm no historian and I welcome everyone who knows better than I too Please correct me He was someone C wanted find a way forward and to make things work rather than prevail and thump his chest and Sing his praises Um upon his exit from politics. He warned of the military industrial complex, very, very specifically. He cautioned us as a society in a way that is similar to I'm jumping around here, but Andrew Scott's performance Stag is stag. Yeah H Cassandra like. Ming you know the future, but no one will listen to you or tell you that you're heard or believe you even and you are correct. When he had to stand in the stream boulder like and say, listen to me, there is bad weather inbound All of our best laid plans are irrelevant at your peril proceed if you do not If you proceed, there will be disaster and there was great loss already. Now, imagine, imagine This is what You're up against and the weekend before The weather report comes in to tell you now we're going to have to delay because we can't land the boats. We can't see the targets It Gale force wins It just doesn make sense You can't turn around three hundred thousand troops on a dime. I mean, is this isn' FedAax. And to do that, to make that decision is no small feat. The pressure on the meteorologists. One to get it right in a science that was at that time largely looking out the window to see what kind of day it was compared with The analog reports from previous years didn't rain in nineteen twenty four, so it won't rain today. san Almanac, you know, Fmers Almanac kind of approach to it and the pressure to give the answer to the command that they want, that they have the all clear to go on their designated date, which was june fifth, a Monday. And be told if you go on june fifth, it will be a disaster If you go too late, you lose the war. You lose the war Yeah The soonest that they could emulate those conditions would have been around the eighteenth because of the phases of the moon, the tide the amount of reflected light to attack Netork so many reasons and also to give away their element of surprise and Consider that Like Eisenhower What's the last word He was the Supreme Commander That responsibility fell on him and that accountability was on him too. He wrote a letter and su, you know, in victory And he wrote one in defeat Hm laid the blame squarely on it his Four star shoulders and For something is sort of pedantic or niggling about a nerdy weather man telling me It's not going to be okay to do it today. in the mind of hardened Montgomery who wanted boots on the beach at all costs, just get my men there. takeake care of the rest. So there's some rain. We're British, we're not made of sugar. we won'tlt, blah, blah blah. And ose conversations had to have been quite intense And that's the fly on the wall sensibility that Anthony Merris is film pressure when Stag walks in address them, the joint chiefs of staff giveive them the news And then S, hang on Hang on There's a window twelve, fourteen hours. when it will come It will be in the morning on Tuesday June sixth If you're going to go Go then Don't go I didn't know this. You know. I did not know this. on top of everything else That's when they attur At six thirty in that morning, they did it. We all know the result. Yes, they prevailed. The loss was Awful However Germans thought It would be out of their minds to attack during a storm this. So They were caught unawares too And that was really just the landing This was just a landing. The battle of the Bge was months away. I mean, and of those who landed successfully on the beach and made it up to the dunes They still had a lot of work to do Yeah. Join up with everybody who missed their targets landing sites, who were trying to find each other if they made it to the ground alive So when I saw this movie on as a script or even before I even read it when Anthony said, I'm sending this to you. I want you to do this. I promise you' do it. I was like me. like Isiser? I mean you did a great job in the role. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I did feel the actors's anxiety of having to believe, oh, no, I need to give like a fsimile performance. I need to mimic and do a carbon copy of who I how he appeared who he was, everything like that. I'm not that kind of actor. I mean, we know the ones. there are those who do. I'm like, I'm not one of those. And he said, no, no, no, no, no, work Well He also sent me a couple of pictures of myself going, lookook, you look a lot of light. And I was say, I'll give you that We did. I was like, right. And he said, Brendon, he's like you And I mean that as a compliment. He He's just a regular guy. He cares about people. And that's who I Eaisenhuower was He spoke to my ego. And so he flattered me and so I paid attention M and I went I felt like And Now I can understand What? had to have been going on When he looked those seventeen, eighteen year old Kids in the eyes beforefore they went and comported themselves The reason for it. is something that Since then Yes We have romanticized, we have idealized, we We have lionized, we have We've made into an apotheosis Oh What it means to serve one's country. and I wanted to do this film because P this prologue in this film does give us an intimate And if we've done our jobs right view of what this really looked like, what this felt like. uss living in our modern world now eighty some years later, it's easy to I'd say forget, but we didn't know in the first place, largely this generation does We just didn't know Why it was done. Why what the stakes really were. The stakes were such that fascism could end us all. And that's why we are allies with other countries. and that's why we're going to go and stop this I'm not a political guy But I know that And I hope is that it will inspire dialogue for the world and the times that we live in today. Not that one is the right way O is not the right way will certainly give a measure of appreciation to Consider, consider How fragile we all truly are Yeah. I feel like I'm doing all the talking. I mean, I wrote like thirty questions for you, but I'm fascinated. I want people to understand the the I didn't want to interrupt you obviously, but I also want people to understand the history of this. But I do have a lot of questions I want to get to in terms of acting craft because I've been watching you for over thirty years. and I mean, the first time I saw you was in ' ninety two school ties and then S no man around that time period. but I bring that up because you're You have you talked down about yourself a little bit about like, I'm not that type of actor. like I actually think you have an incredible craft and you have an incredible way into characters from a physicality, but also your voice, your cadence, the Japanese you spoke in rental familyamily, which was phenomenal. Do you have a consistent anchor that has brought you into characters throughout the years in terms of physicality and voice cadence because the way Eisenhower speaks is different from the way your character in Rental family speaks or the way the character in the whales speaks or and seino, I mentioned these random films, but it is interesting to think about the physicality. Do you see an anchor consistently in those Physicality was important in my early days in my career,, not that it isn't now, but Like I said Or did I say? I came from Seattle. That's where I was in my training years. You know, I was a weird theater kid When I arrived in ninety one. in Los Angeles and I wrestled with office plants T to get the role for Incino, man. I'm convinced. What There were no lines. I was just But at the same time Link a thought out caveman, it's not that doesn't speak, it's just that he's the new guy in town. He wass just trying to go along to get along. Maybe he doesn't know what a doorkob is because he hasn't tried to open a door yet. You know, he's going to try, I it. But his arc is so earned. And I genuinely mean that as an when I saw it I was eight, that was the first time I saw you So that was my introduction to Brandon Fraser as an actor. I mean, like, we didn't know each other. first time I've ever met you is physically is today. But like I always felt like it was kind of like the terminator arc Where like Arnold shows up in T two. he's like a machine, but then he becomes more and more human throughout the story. That arc is earned. and I know like Incino Man is a crazy film, but it is something that I noticed your performance. and I was like, okay, I'm sticking with this guy. I'm gonna to get school ties, I'm blast from the past. I mean, everything you've done, it's always been intriguing because you are such an empathetic that I actually genuinely love going on any journey with any character you play. You're very kind. So I just wondered when you think about those arcs, they really are important. Voice cadence is something I also find interesting in terms of delivery of dialogue There's a musicality to the way dialogue speaks. L in the past, I bring up Christopher Walkin. I remember interviewing him once about the way he finds musicality in his voice. What didid he tell you? He talked about how he thinks of it like music And like remember the scene in pulp fiction when he's talking about with watch H the inflection of his voice goes up and down. Did you speak with him at all about dialogue delivery when you were on Blast in the past? I mean he had a very speific he has a very specific voice in cinema All over backs of the sets, there would be the rinds of lemons wedges that he would bite and squeeze joking. No. And he was like constant there were behind the cushions everywhere. You were finding lemon rides because he sucks lemons. This makes perfect sense weirdly enough. Yeah becausecause he said, Yeahah, you get a lot of dialogue. gets things you can speak I don't do a very good crisp walk, but for him, it was about, you know, waking his mouth up So yes, how the character speaks Excellent choice for an example, It is something that Chris Walkin is acutely aware of. Yeah. That and he also eats a lot of garlic And he's the first one to tell you. Remember this scene where Adam's like, Okaykay, I'm going to go up top now Dad and he's on his deathbed, so to speak. And you won't let him leave the room Chris is going One more thing Horn moreing It's funny Because of what he's doing, but also you can see my eyeballs are wrinkling a little bit because he's the first one to tell you that I ate a lot of garlic. What's the garlic do for him? I don't know, he eats it for breakfast. He could smell it everything. He would fry it up with anchovies. I'm serious. Yes, That sounds awful. And also kind of tasty. when it's lunch. But are you an anchovies person? I can't do anchovies. That's not my thing That is such a great story. I just think about those performances and the dialogue. I want to use two quick themes from pressure and tie them metaphorically to acting. And I want to make sure that this is clear. The weight of a war in World War II is nowhere near the weight of I would argue acting or the jobs that we're doing in podcasting, but they are important, right? And like Rental familyily speaks about People want emotion. they want to go on these emotional journeys. And I actually do think acting and what you do is extremely important because kid who was bullied in school movies where I went from my safe place. I felt like I belonged in a movie theater. So you actually your work is extremely important. And so I want to use these two themes about compartmentalization and certainty In the movie pressure, your character, Eisenhower wants certainty And in life you know, what's that famous quote? The only things that are certain in life are death and taxes, right? Certainty is something that we all, I think, want to strive for. And then I think the secret to life is figuring out how to be uncertain and just live But as an actor, I have to imagine certainty plays a part in what you do and knowing if something's going to work or not work. And so in the idea of pressure, you know, with this idea of the weather and whether or not the beach, you know, that's going to work for the troops. going into an acting metaphor lightly, I'm just curious if you can speak about certainty as an actor and uncertainty and how that plays a part in your journey as a character Okay here goes. I don't think I should have too much Certainty. because once I think I nailed it. I got it. I didn't. What I mean to say is You should be taking a risk L you're an actor you should feel not certain, but maybe even a little bit unbalanced or untethered in what you're doing because over confonfidence will be your undercoming and you should go towards the risk. Be that is where you can find the most growth. Do you remember the biggest risk you took in a performance in a moment? Like you were like, okay, I'm just gonna try this. I have no idea if it's gonna to work and it landed Im sure it's happened multiple times, but do you have one that comes to mind Yeah U, it was in the whale Oh win Charlie. explores his ex wife, by Sth the Mordon as she's Leaving the apartment. That she's been dressing him down horribly and he feels he deserves all of it And they're talking about his daughter. And She's not leaving. She's walking out the door, you know, his last grasp at hope for having any kind of resolution. And the line was, I just need to know that I've done one thing right with my life on the page is, you know, you make it that way. you will. but I We were st. We were shooting Yeah, you know, a fifty fifty, like this way and that way. and u Darren stopped the train F his perspective to pick that line up with a new angle and quick lighting reset because for whichever reasons my own everything that I brought to that part, the feeling that Globally, we are in existential crisis. There may not be a tomorrow You know, not saying that out loud But It was not lost on any of us who live through it. We are here bonds us all in a way to be doing what I was doing then at that time with that elaborate makeup and that performance and that g. and the feelings that I was having And I'm given the line, I just need to know that I've done one thing right with my life U I don't it came I spoke that in an angle that wasn't really the primary angle for the scene Uh, and U I can remember feeling like If ever you clock a cry from your soul, that was mine And uh U D and put, you know, he shot that And he jumped in and said, stay in it, stay in it stay in the zone. Matdie, Lee Batique was DP. Um Darren's a director who He's kind of like Eisenhower. Like he gets the good idea from wherever it comes from, but he credits where it comes from right away Um But he does get the last word. know He's like he says he would joke baseball umpire, you know, if he had not been a director because it's truth, I mean, he sees everything,, and he knows the call. He knows the play. I think probably whatever I had on board, for me, Brendon, in that time, that feeling of all of what we were feeling to be given a line at work one day, which is I just need to know I'm done more than right with my life. I channeled everything that I guess I was feeling. I didn't intend to. Wow. I didn't I didn't intend to. And I actually I felt like I had gone too far, like you know, you know, you can pek, you can peek before you need to. It happened to me plenty of times on that show. and You know, I mean, that's all actor stuff, but I love it. but Darren understands the intimacy of what it is to be a performer and how to capture that. That's his language is That fluency and 's I've answered the question, I hope. I know That's what it was. I take that as you found Catharsis in your own life through that line. That's what it sounds feels like to me. I started this show as a craft driven show to help help people understand all the people who work on films. Not just the actors you're on the screen, but the DP. You mentioned Matt Libitique is one of my favorite DP's out there I want to talk about score and cinematography. You've been scored I I am going to list these off by some of the greatest composers of all time, Maurice Jar, who scored school ties Which by the way, is interesting because he scored Lawrence of Arabia, which is very similar in terms of what Jerry Goldsmith did on The Mummy, which is amazing. Carter Burwell and Godds and Monsters, airheads Yani who scored with Hikari and Alex on rental familyies. S Garos, one of my favorite bands Alan Sylvestry came in for Mummy Returns David Holes on no suden mo I mean, you have some remarkable music that has accompanied your performances throughout the years. I know score is not generally there for you on the set and it usually comes in later, obviously in post production. I want to know your emotional realization and arc personally when you see your performance set to music and what that feels like. And was there a particular score that comes to mind where you were like, when you saw the film, you were like, that, because Rob Simonson score for the whale These are all they're characters in the movie that you don't get to act with So I'm curious if you can speak to that relationship When I spoke Rob about this. he I mean, I'm no musician, but he worked as I'm sure, many composers, if not all of them by what is being said They give They give the score to the scene as they see it and they interpret it It's it's a collaboration, sort of a one way kind of collaboration Rob had Um A unique instrument and I'm not kidding, it's like seventeen feet long. It's a flute. It comes in cases and it connects. Yeah Wow. Yeah. modular. And not like a didiga redo kind of thing, but sort of. It's a wind instrument and that's And That's not digital. The sound in the whale. I mean, that's that's a floutist. playing a massive And you do hear The cry of a whale underwater do get taken on this Fluid journey. You do have eerie sense of There's aching beauty and tragedy somehow. And those are the things that I think Johny with rental familyamily T Please We found instruments, children voices, inststruments He they sayang madrigals together. That's Hikari and him So Um They I don't know the name of the instrument, forgive me, Jones. It's a type of keyboard piano It's it's an Oregon wind instrument, I believe. and he gets the sustain sound that signature sound when Sga Ros came out It's not with a chopstick. Is it Are you kidding to hold the keys down That's insane. becausecause there's no pedal hold the keys down. So so he's like, wonder this works too, but you know, it's so he's experimenting You see him Do this, Dick pulling chopsticks out, Dick, you go? And it ye Of course, you don't need to know how the sausages are made necessarily to understand. But it's fascinating you find out. isn't it? Yeah I grew up on DVD features. DVD features were my film school. And I remember was like I would learn how filmmakers worked, how shots were done, like the cool things they would do to get a shot, like, you know, in bllood simimple when the beer goes down down the bar. It's incredible to watch I think a cinematographer that you've worked with too. And my wife and I were going through your some of your filmography last night and she's like, haveave you ever seen how they did the scene in the mummy when he walks in to save Rachel Vis's character and he's in that onender with a sword and nothing is there as you're fighting And I't I want people to understand like how hard that is to actually make for an audience. L we believe that you're actually taking out these enemies, but nothing the behind the scenes of that on the DVD is insane to watch Just your memories of that and the physicality of that, but also the this scene is incredible. It's one of the most famous scenes in the film, but like a cinematographer, what's your relationship to your DP in moments like that? Be the first part of it's a big wonner So I was wonder if you couldd speak to that. Yeah John Burton with ILM at that time Magic hat h was They were the apothheosis of the technology. That was largely developed by James Cameron and, you know, Terminator two changed my life. Right. It was everything. Yeah. It star Ething.. And so, you know, they were they were If you could get them, they were the go to game and credit to Stacy Snyder and Stephven Summers for Leaning into creating the Mummy as this fearsome, cool, sexy, even, dangerous, unstoppable Terminator like character who was then, as we call it AI now, but it was CGI computer generated imagery Yes, that recquired motion capture, which we know means wearing a unitard with markers on it. Shout out to A Circus. One of the greatest of all time. Yeah. Yeah. That' just incredible. That was like the Lord of the Rings DVD's were actually the ones that started my whole journey with this. But sorry, I continue, but yeah, but that scene in particular. I remember like we were talking about the DVD feature of that last night scene was something I'm passionate about, which is the collaboration between the performer onet and the prescribed technology that goes into creating a designed shot. Fight choreography, like a dance, had to be established, created, and that's the routine. So I worked with the stunt team to go through rick battles with a sword this way, this way. So I get still you know in the parking lot of Shephererton Studios, went through sword moves, went up on a few, you know, all that, You never have time enough to do it, rehear it whatever. you gota gota,'re gonna shoot this The shot was set up with a motion capture control camera, which was the size of a refrigerator today. Sious, then. now it's, you know, de vice. but it was a filmed too, by the.ilm It was robotic. and it was all pre prorogrammed. So it was on rails, it had robotic moves, and it was loud And it curved around and followed the character, me, Rick going on and taking on his mummies. There was a decision that was made, I believe, kind of like at the last minute about whether or not they were going to use the guys in the unitards. In the blue suits, Performance capture. Blue was the new green. green was the new blue, pererformance capture, and then just remove them later, playing the mummies. That's what I figured you did. No, because I said but you know, but if I swing this sword at him, I can't swing through because I'm gonna injure the guy. Good point. Because it's plastic sword and it's a real person, you know? I mean I can remove him I' see his guts everywhere if I open a poor guy up right So they said, John said, can you do it without them? I used to get sent to the principal's office for behaving like this. Yes. I can do it without them. Me and my imaginary friends will have a little play here And it was immensely liberating. It was the stunt guys and the unitards took went and got a coffee then I could really rip and let it go and swing through chop because You're Marcele Marseuing it. you're working with invisible people and that's your job anyway. You're the actor. you're there Your job is to make your audience believe it. Of course, I'm not gonna to believe you on the day because there's no one there. But as long as you believe it They will That's the doctor's job. Now, all the mechanics and intelligence and CGI attached to that is kind of not my department Yeah does provide inspiration later in post for how they put they marry the two elements. So you're aware of that as you're swinging. Yes. I'm aware of it in I became aware of it on the second one actually because there was a There was there's a shot on the bus on the yeah, the bus. Jonathan's driving the bus and we're escaping the streets of London. and one of the soldier mummies has been chopped in half and he's coming at Rick hanging from the overhead handrails. Rick stops him with a sort of three stooges poke to the eyeballs. Yeah. And you know, that was scripted. Oh, that's cool But on the first shot, I did it stops him poke outw. and I went. Do you go into his eyes Well, that was the shot. There was nothing there, of course, but I poked because that's what my job was. But then in my actor brain, I thought, well, it's got to be nasty in there. So I went or something like that on the first take And I but that little part wasn't part of the shot. And then it got quiet and I heard them at the monitors they're I don't know it funny. And what they realized was John came around and he said, Yeahah, do that because we can just put some mummy goo in later. You know, we didn't think of that. It's just a small example of this sort of like, you know the marriage of the two disciplines happening right there. There's so much liberty to do whatever you want, of course. Will that change how you do four? Yeah I guess it will kind of right. In a way. in a way. You know, I want to know the answers to this question too much about it, but yeah I can't ' I don't know, but I'm looking forward to finding out. Yeah. I can't wait too. All I know we gotta wrap up. Thank you so much. I do wanna show you this before I go, because I've showed this to you before. Those are my original Mumy and Mummy two tickets when I was a kid. I showed them to you when I interviewed you for the whale, but I wantan to show them to you in person But yeah, I just the idea of me sitting in that theater as a kid and then being able to show those to you in person, I don't know Decades later, it just kind of is surreal to me. So it says mummy number two, but that's actually technically the first one. So this was the first one? That's the first second one. This is the first one. this is ninety nine. They just called number two because it was the second screen they were on that day. This touches me. Thanks, P. Thank you, man. I appreciate you being here. It was an absolute honor. and thank you for you to sign? No, no no. Do that ruined them?. We'll get a picture of theap. ye Yeah. Thank you so much friend. It's an honor the moment. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you, sir Thank you Likewise