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Hey Babes, it's Paris Hilton. so I was checking my points balance in the Hilton Honors app the other day. and yeah, I've got about a billion, which feels excessive. E for me. Just kidding, you can never have too many Hilton Honors points. And I want to do something iconic this summer, so I'm giving away all my Paris points. Just find somewhere you've always wanted to stay, then go to my socials or Hilton's and tell me about it. Just make sure you're a Hilton Honors member and I might be sending you Paris points because when you want points that make your summer even hotter, it matters where you stay Take your flexibility beyond the mat. PayPal Pay notothing at checkout. Then enjoy a flexible monthly payment plan that works for you. With no sign up or late fees. Find yours then, and an easy way to pay. With PayPal. Download the PayPal app to get started. sububject to approval. pay mononthly consonsumer loans made by Webank. available through PayPaling N ML nine one zero four fivety seven. Learn more at payPal. com slash pay monthly. Are we Rlling? Okay, we'll get into all of this. we'll get in all. Wesest Craven is the love of my life. He's my favorite filmmaker to ever be. likeike of a anything Have you ever met West Craven? I met him twice and the first time I don't remember because I blacked out. And the second time he saw me at a diner in Ohai And he came up to me because he remembered that I was, I mean, I literally blacked out, I don't remember it. And he was like he was like, it's good to see you again and I thought I was going to fade again Be I'm What was the movie of his? Was there one of his that was the kind of the way in for you? Yes, it was Scream. was I wasn't into scary movies at all. I had debilitating OCD and I was around twelve No, I was like thirteen, fourteen when it came out And I saw the trailer for Scream the TV for the dimension logo. I miss that dimension. so much. Can we bring it back? Like there's something so magical when you saw that dimension. you're like, this is gonna be a good film. That in the Lion's Gate one, like before saw but like the twisting like how they did that. It was cic Yeah And I saw the trailer and I was like, I'm gonna love this movie so much. And then I just knew. and I hated horror movies before that. Like I was so terrified of them. And I saw a scream in the theater And I saw it seven times in the theater. It was the only time my brain ever shut off. All the compulsions, the OCD, the Living inside my own anxiety hell I watched Scream and I was so present. and then I just became obsessed with scary movies and the genre. See, I'm having a really strange moment right now because I had a very similar path I was diagnos with OCD when I was fourteen. I've been on like SSRIs since I was fourteen, I went ProzZac Yeah At thirteen. I was put on of it. Back with then, you couldn't no one really knew or you talked about. How did you find out that you had it? I was so in middle school, I used to get like picked up picked on and beat up all the time and I didn't understand why my brain was always going to these kid catastrophic thoughts in my head, like the worstase scenario, like back when like I had to have a germ worry. Like I would touch germs or something and think someone was gonna like sick or something, whatever it was. You're speaking my language. And I remember being like, why am I having these And like why are kids making fun of me? I remember one day I was watching, I think it was like a twenty episode with like Barbara Walter. Mine was Oprah. Was it Yes, I thought the devil was inside of this. Yeah they were like, o, this thing called obsessive compulsive Dorder. went to a doctor and I was diagnosed when I was fourteen. And it's so interesting you bring up the presence thing because that's how I've always described movies to my friends. like that's why I saw Oppenheimer ten times in. it helps you. present. Yes. And that's the first time. Isn't that wild? No, it's soautiful. That's why I'm in the arts. I was a performer since I was two years old performing, my dad had a video camera and I would make him record me and do dance videos. and perform stuff but It's when, you know, as I said, I had such debilitating OCD and in my mind was its own hell. And nobody really understands that unless they have something like OCD. And also would you argue that like the way OCD is treated like in the world? there's like a stereotypical nature to of like like everyone thinks it's th I left the stove on. peopleeople don't realize the paralyzing Weirdly made a short film last year I haven't put it out yet or edited the whole thing yet, but it's about what it feels like to be in someone's mind with OCD because I've I've been therapy since I was fourteen Like I'm still in therapy now and and it's such a debilitating, paralyzing thing if it gets the best of you, which the way I describe it to people sometimes is' like imagine a voice in your brain turned up to eleven and then your logical voice is fighting it with like a level three and they can't. And it's the most exhausting Like people don't I think people don't realize how exhausting it is because your brain is constantly fighting itself and constantly like You know For a normal person, they would, let's say they touch that and then they, you know piece of whatever, they would touch it and they'd go about their day. Yeah. Well, I touched that on accident because I've never touched something, you know, that I think is jermmy on purpose, like an elevator button, for instance. I touched that in my hands dead And if I accidentally touch my phone, then my phone's I have to get a new phone. and then like the mental gymnastics that we put around ourselves no reason, like no logical. It doesn't make sense. And that's what's so hard is to explain to people is it's like, I mean, I use loves to pump my gas. I mean, I'm I used to do I used to this is so interesting. I used to when I used to turn on water faucets, my worry was that, okay, my hand is already dirty I'm turning the faucet on. So I would buy these little mini water cups And I would use the cup to turn off the faucet. That's brilliant. It's like, whyy am I then touching Why whyy don't other people think about that? I don't know, because I think it's a fascinating thing because I think what the issue with OCD and I don't know if this is for you as well We never learn from it. Like like I used to have really bad driving OCD. I don't drive anymore because I used to have think I know it B fear of like hit and run worries and stuff. too. Did you. And there's no real reason for it. is a and for people listening, this is a very very common part of OCD where it's very common think something bad happens and you do U turns and you go back and check And no matter like your partner, your friend, a family member can tell you and it gets exhausting for them too because you're like Like you didn't really touch that, did you? Are you sure that I didn't that my hand didn't maybe brush up against the garbage can? You're sure. Was it within two feet? Are you sure? Are you sure you're just telling me that to reassure like there is it is exhausting and greatest Thene thing to me about being in this business is when I am in a role The OCD shuts off And that's I think that's similar to why we sit in movie theaters. like I everyone's like, whyy are you watching Oppenheimer ten times? It's a super dark movie' ob it. But for some reason, the way Nolan works and the way his music hits, it puts my brain in such a presence for three hours that I'm almost addicted to that feeling. I could not. I feel you so much and it's something that I try to explain to people And there is such a comfort to that because we are never people with OCD are never fully, fully present. Like it's hard to be because you're constantly thinking about everything around you that could be a danger. Yeah O did I say something wrong? Did I say the wr say? Let me replay it in my brain. reassure It is and for For that time I mean, with sccream for that time of me watching that movie. it's now why Anytime that I'm nervous about a scene or nervous in life, I recite scream. I mean, I have every line of that. Is there a scene you go to I'll go to anything. I will go to the grocery store scene, I will go to I mean, just random anything, like my brain will just pick something There's a bathroom scene in the high school that I'll do Oh actually anoric skull. likeike just the most random things, but it calms me down. and if I'm having you know, a bad I say like a bad OCD day where I'm spiraling because you know OCD like you can be totally fine and then all of a sudden something triggers you and you are I mean, like last Thursday I' got out of bet Like then I'm just being honest. I don't really talk about this like a lot I'm so happy that you do. But I had an amazing day last Wednesday. I remember the day being amazing and work was great. And then for some reason, something triggered my OCD Thursday morning. I woke up and I was just I have those days. Yeah like I will be on top of the world and then all of a sudden it's like it is so paralyzing I cannot get up Has your OC my OCD's changed a lot over the years? Like like I had the Germs stuff when I was like fourteen, fifteen. Driving hit me when I was like sixteen, seventeen. and then I started just like just everything started bothering me. Like I'd be worried if I said the wrong thing that they were never gonna, you know, want to hang out with me again or invite me back or social then you check. Like, hey, is everything cool Are you mad at me? And it's you know Yeah, I mean, mine The most is with germs that don't make sense.' not like a it's like with garbage and like Germs that it doesn't it does nothing about it makes sense. Although I will say, I went to UCLA for the there's an OCD program there. Is there? everything that they taught me at that program when COVID happened, it all went out the window because it was like, you guys had me do exposure therapy where I was touching elevator buttons and touching, you know things that that like toilet flushes and all that that stuff and then When COVID happened, they were like, Ohh, just kidding, you can get sick from that. I was like Whaty all that work? That's my battle a lot with my therapist is like what do you do when there's real things involved in your worry? So for example, like you say you wear gloves when you pump your gas. Al. Which actually kind of makes sense because if you think about it, all the people that touch that gas thing and then if you get in your car and put food in your mouth You could theoretically, I mean, it's such a rarity, but what's weird about OCD and I don't know if you feel the same way is there's always a hook of reality to your concern. That's why it so gets you Yeah. because there is always a little bit of truth into that. And so it then your mind even more questions everything and I was really good at masking. Like I really there was when I went to school, I hit it very well. I was very, very good. It didn't come out in school for you No That wasn't problem for me. I was It came out ye. the kids were like I mean, I'd go up to a kid and just ask a question for reassurance and theyd be like, why are you asking me that? And then they would like punch me in the stomach or something Like something stupid, like just because I was annoying them or who's laughing now? Look at you now. I don't know. I think that it's now I do think it's a superpower. Yeah because I will say We have passion for things that like, yes, people might think it's obsessive, but that passion and that drive, I do truly believe that people with OCD go through such hell in their own brains and there' like there is nothing we can't take on. Yeah. because we twenty four seven are living this constant battle within our brains. So so anything that's like challenging or triggering or like We know how we're capable of figuring it out because we've done it our whole life. Did you ever have the worry? I always have the worry like when I was first starting therapy about the superpower part of it we're like, this going get taken away? Yes. Because there's this, I mean, I don't know for people who have OCD, like like it does make you a lot more preed Anxiety too, ADHD too, there's all there's there's superpowers too I have AHD as well. So do I? And I take I take ridalin and I need to, but I'm afraid. that it's going to the same thing with SSRIs The older I got and the more into acting, it's like, do you want to be numb or do you want to be creative and be hurting. so you got kind of have to pick. It's the side effects thing. I mean and the SSRIs are so brutal. brutal. And I've been on every one of them And like now it's like a situation where like, okay, like you mentioned this numb thing. If I go to eighty milligrams Yeah I can't cry in a movie anymore But if I go to forty I'm more worried during the day, but I can still feel emotions. It's so weird, K. twenty two double edgeed swords. I think that's why movies are so special to you and me because so special. We just kind of lock in and but there's also, I don't know, are you do you get locked in on harmonies in music? Of course. That's where I like I remember Lincoln eighty two a song called Feeling this And like Tom and Mark are like in these massive harmonies. I remember being like, I remember listening to that and going, my brain feels like it's it' in it's on I feel like I'm conscious perfect mode. You're in an alignment I feel that with music wonder why that Music. There's something about to me music is And But I have the OCD whereas like I'll walk into a store and they will be blaring terrible music, like dance music or like horrible music and I can't function. Like I have to leave. Yeah. because I'm so I can't I'm so tapped into that. I have learned now that it is more of a superpower. It is because because I mean, again, look, look where you're sitting. Like what you're doing. You're Yeah. It's crazy. Cyia I had Cynthia Rivvo on the show back in like, November or December. And she wrote a book called Simply More which she talks about when she was in school, she would get made fun of for asking too many questions or whatever it was. And that was something that happened to me too But now All of the things she was being made fun of as a kid are now her superpowers. And its so in this book she writes about like that. And I remember being like, wow, that's a really you're bring that up now. I that is the best way to put it because As strange as these things might be to the outer world, they feel so normal to us. Yeah, and it's and we look at how we've navigated it. could have, I mean, I I had such bad OCD that I truly did not believe I would live past sixteen. Like it was I did not want I was like It was and not and there wasn't anything going on in my life that would have made me feel that way. I had great friends, a great family, but inside of my brain was You know, mental health is everything and we take it so for granted. And when your mental health isn't good, you can be on the outside looking like you have it all together and you are just Yeah, and what's this is such I'm this is has this is not where I thought this conversation was going And I'm really honestly I'm delighted to talk about this because it's something that I I just saw sat here for a second. I was like, it's twenty twenty six. and I'm sitting here on a podcast with an incredible artist openly talking about couldn We couldn't We couldn't do this So I was so, I'm sure you were too. I was so embarrassed about it. I was so ashamed of it. I am a little bit I am but I'm also Like and you should be this too. I'm really fucking proud that I'm still standing and I'm here and I've accomplished what I have and so should you Yeah. Like for someone thats that's been through what you have been through, I know the OCD hell, I know that path You're sitting here and and killing it at what you do and have made such a name for yourself. That is not easy. There is nothing you can't do truly. Yeah. I mean, like good it's a great point and you're one hundred percent right. I mean, same same for you as well. And what I find interesting about OCD and I'm sure you feel the same way as well is like it's always black and white And likeil the short film I made was called Greay Area because I was like, how can I get people to understand like that paralyzing aspect of it and so we can find the gray area. so we can actually find that because our minds or stuck in fight or flight. Always. It's And I tell my therapists sometimes I'm like, how am I supposed to practice ERP? If I'm already down the spiral L it happ because it so badly. can happen so fast. You don't even see it happen. You don't even the moment like if I touch this, I'm already in the mindset, Okaykay. Whatever was on that is now going to be on my finger. I'm now gonna touch my dog when I get home. My dog's my finger. A gonna hurt? Exactly. And I had when I was little little, it was I don't touch this. Say this prayer six times, blink. F times, tap this again. My parents are gonna to die in a car accident. Okay, these are literally the thoughts I had. I mean, the worst possible things you could think of if you Horrific. If I don't get in my bed and flip my pillow four times, my dad is gonna die of a heart attack. And that's your fault because you didn't do it. You have to do it. And what if? What if you don't do it and your dad does die? And then that means the rest of your life you hold that shame and that guilt and then you have to do every single thing your OCD tells you because You don't want that to happen again. The most fucked up thing about OCD is that like, After you spend years and decades checking things and having compulsions, And you go, okay, I'm finally going to beat it. I'm not going to check this time The OCD always goes. This time real. Yeah. This time. Oh this was bullshit. Yeah, but this one is real. It is like having a little devil inside of you.. It really is. I mean, I like I said, I thought W that amazing? It's freeing to speak about. It is because it it I hope What I hope I mean, I love acting more than anything in the world. It's the one thing that makes me present. I love the arts. I'm so grateful to be here But my job, I've always felt more than anything is to help people feel seen. Yeah. And I haven't really had a chance to talk about OCD like this. and if it can just make one person go, oh my gosh, I have that. and I'm not so weird and I can still be successful in my life. my jobs done. L I've done something with my life. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I'm sitting in this chair right now as somebody who took an Uber here today because I have such horrible OCD that I can't drive. I don't have a car in LA, which is it's difficult. People in LA, you have to have a car because it's so spread out. But I have chosen to spend the money on Ubers because of the peace of mind it gives me for not having to drive because driving scares the living shit out of me. Well, especially on freeways here too. it's like What you're saying to me is so normal and like an everyday that I'm not even I'm like, yeah, duh. Yeah And that's why when you when you said the thing about pumping gas ab bls, I'm like, Yeahah, ye that m. I mean, I mean, even just using the restroom here, I'm like, okay How am I going to get out of this bathroom if there's no paper towels to open the the door like am I stuck in here forever? What What do I have to use? how, I mean, it's it's it's things that People that don't have OCD would never think twice about. I mean and airports, I mean, and airplanes touching the seat thing and the I used to this is so embarrassing, but we're just diving in. I used to, you know, fly, I'd flew to Italy and back and I would not use the bathroom I would not use the airplane bathroom. I would not use the airport bathroom. How horrible is that for your body? Terrible. I just now started being able to but I use a glove, like I use a little plastic glove to open the door and to close it. like But also it's what makes me me and I wouldn't change anything. It's because it's why we're sitting here right now. Yeah If I was on a plane and I saw you doing that with the glove, I would actually go She like like literally like I would like, I know what I feel like I feel I'm so worried that someone's going to, you know, I was u I alsoso have a hard time with parking like because you have to put your card in. I'm so glad now that you can, you know, with the parking meters b parking. I don't want to stick my credit card in and touch the my fingers to touch the It's so bizarre So now you can text, but I'm I I was doing it and I was doing it with like a little tissue. And someone was like, Hey, Michala. And I was like, o no, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. And it was someone that was like, Hey, I'm a fan. Can I get a photo I was like, Please God, please God. I hope he didn't see that because he's gonna be like, why is she using something to know It doesn't make sense and they' just like she's so weirdo. That shame is so real too because real. Be what's interesting though is that it's always blown up in our minds more than We think it is. Yeah in reality, are we hurting anyone by doing that? No. My thing, one of the things that I struggle with is being in crowds now And like my thing is like specifically if I'm in a restaurant, like I hate walking by people because I'm worried I'm going to bump into them and they're gonna choke or something That that's such an OCD thing.'s such an OCD. That's it's such a normal. I mean, I now whichich really sucks, but I when I go to a movie theater I will like either wear a hoodie and like, u sweatpants that I can wash after because I don't want my back touching like they never wash those.. Like that is something that people sit I mean, it's everything. it's airplanes, it's everything, but it's something that people I just need to get over it this clearly. but But it's sometimes I'll bring like a blanket and I'll put a blanket down on the seat and I'll watch the movie. But Yeah, it it is You know, I just don't want people out there that have OCD The last thing I want is them number one, not knowing what it is because I didn't know what it was until I saw that Oprah experience. Which is just crazy. I was like, I remember just crying because I was like, o The devil is not in me. There is something that is it's real and it's a disease thing It's a disease. That's a thing people don't realize. people are like, just get over it. I'm like, I'm like But let's say I'm a little OCD too. I like things. I like things a certain way. I'm a little OCD two too. It's like No, no, no, no, no. OCD is compulsions and it's obsessions and it's your brain is on a loop over and over and over. It's not like, I like things a little clean. I like to It's an actual mental disease that is incredibly debilitating. And it also debilitates you sometimes in the most Some of the most important moments in your life. I've never talked about this before, but like I used to have like my driving was so bad that I would get stuck doing U turns. This was like probably fifteen years ago. I remember Thanksgiving, like one night, I was driving home from work or something and I had like a worry. L I think I hit like a pothole or something. Yeah Yeah I was like, oh my god, so I went back and of course it was it was just a pothole, but the moment to keep. And then what is that? You see that it's a pothole. You know it's a pothole, but maybe it wasn't Maybe my eyes are deceiving me. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah Yeah. And I remember my parents were like they were like they had to wait like two hours for me to get home. And I remember and in your mind In their heads, you know, obviously people look at you and go, you're being selfish. I'm not saying my parents never said that. My parents were obviously very support. only Do you know what I mean What's going on? It's like not selfish at all. It's actually like a living nightmare. Have you had time consuming ones like that have taken you hours? Of course. course and I will You know, I do like I don't so much anymore. It only happens. you know, when something spirals me, but like I'll have to shower for til I mean, when I was in in In junior high, I would shower till I would my skin would bleed. I mean, I was I would I would see it you know, bleed and it was like, no, you got to keep going. like you got to keep scrubbing. So it is not something I mean, it does. it takes up so much time back. It um, It's again, why it's probably let us here into this business. Well it's also there's an empathy that I could sense with you who you have you Yeah Yeah because like you don't really sometimes when you're explaining this to somebody, it's like you just they just don't see it Like I mean, I remember being fourteen. I remember being in a chemistry class And they had these Bunsen burners, like the things you would use to put the gas on or whatever and I would My worry I would always smell gas And would even if my finger just barely touched it, my brain I would go to the teacher and say I might I might have hit that. It might be on. Yeah. But then I remember like we wouldd be dealing with like chemicals in class And I would go and before I would leave, I would go to the bathroom and my hands would bleed from washing them so much because my worry was that I'm somehow going shake someone's hand. And then you're going to give it to them. They're going to lunch and they're gonna die kill them I wish I would' have known you in high school I know just hugged you and been like it's Could you imagine if we had known each other like 'use like to have When you meet people with OCD, it's almost like beautiful thing of like, o you under gone through it. Yes. And you understand and you're not judging me. you're Do the thing that you just said is and it it's something that I bring into every character I play and it' it's So important to me is empathy And I think that people with OCD have so much empathy because They know what it's like. likeike they are There is something, there has to be a correlation with that. Have ever been haveave you ever had an OCD episode on a set Thank God knock on what I mean, it's why I'm in this business. when I don't have OCD. It's literally the only time. But there's there's you know, things that I I think about that I'm like What if on, you know, when I'm going on to this ono this movie, This happens that then triggers like I, you know, you think about it, you're up I'm up I don't sleep either because, you know people with OCT at night, do rethink their whole day? What did I say? Did I you know, that's on the loop as well I mean, I will say that I the busier that I get usually, the better that the better it is. Yeah because you're busy and you don't have as much time to be focusing on that stuff. So I think that when I'm working, you know, you're waking up at sometimes four AM and you're going right into into work and you're not You're not really able to Thanks so much on your on your obsessions, on your thing, it's when you're not working that I'm it's like, oh jeez. That's what happens on the weekends for me. Yeah The weekends are scary. I've always the weekends have always been since I was a little girl the hardest time. We It's so strange because it's the opposite for people who don't have OCD. Yeah. And like that that's why like I'll be hanging out with friends like Kein, just chill, it's the weekend I'm like becausecause I think also your brain is going a million miles a minute all week that it doesn't under it doesn't know what to do with the weekend. Be you're I feel like OCD iss like a spotlight. The minute you fix one S's just gonna find the next one in the dark and then it's so cruel. It It's actually kindind of brutal. Yeah. It's like a really brutal like monster. in a movie in a way that like, and that's why like when I started seeing like movies that had OCD like matchstick M Nick. I have not seen that. Fantastic film. As good as it gets is another one As good as it gets, yeah, but but I found one And I also found because my parents were like, you need to watch as good as it gets And I found that when I watched that, it triggered my OCD more because it was like, oh I'm not doing this. And I watched things that he did and I went with the forks. Why are you doing this, OCD? Why are you not, you know, you know, why Yes, you should be there were certain things. so it's hard for me just like, you know, social media accounts that are about OCD. I want to follow them to show them that I'm supporting them and that I'm like You know, being an advocate for people with OCD, but I can't follow them because I don't want to get stuck in in the loop of things. What is your what do So like at this point in your life though, when something when you start to spiral, do you have something you say to yourself? I still don't really have a full proroof plan of how I know that because every single time it's different No, the only thing that helps me and has helped me. I have a dog, a little dog and she is my safe space And my and she's fourteen. so That girl better make it till at least eighteen because she's my whole world But What's her name? Her name's Ava. Oh like your character. How crazy is that? Yes. That is the world, you know universe. I think that she's the only thing that As long as as long as Ava' safe and Ava's healthy, I can spiral all I need to. I can take as many showers as I need to, but she's there and she's safe and she's like the a poor thing. she's like, bititch, I don't want to have to be the one that's holding you together. It's like, I'm just a dog. But I do think that that's my do you said you don't have anything. Well, I mean Obviously like like my dog Murphy, but like I don't really have Yeah, I don't know. I I don't feel prepped. Like I listen to audio books. like I've tried to learn about rewiring my brain. I've tried to learn about like I heard tapping is a good. Yeah. I heard that too. Also habits stacking. I don't know if you read a book on atomic Habbits. But like I was like I can if you can get into a flow state, like I don't like for example, if I need to go to the gym and if I wantan to drink more water and I want to read more books, how can I make all three of those happen at the same time So I'll go to the gym with an audio book and a liter of water. Oh wow and I won't leave until I finish the water and And I find when I'm completing tasks or checking off, I feel better. How is your diet? It sounds crazy but me too Yeah. And I think I used to be a McDonald's like all the time last year Yeah There is a correlation They have found between your diet and your OCD. So when I this is one hundred percent true. I just this is honestly, I'm in that state right now where I am eating much healthier for the past like few weeks. feel Yeah, it helps so much better. I still have have it. That and working out is, you know after I think yeah, it was after Superman because This u David's trainer Paulo I started seeing and I think that working out and also having that routine of like, you have to be here at this time to train. and For this hour, you're working out, I need to get back into that because that helps your wororking out is not for your for your looks, it's for your brain. People I mean, it sounds really easy. And I think the problem with OCD and this is happens to me all the time, I'll get into the perspective of like, I'm gonna to work out. I'm gonna go four days a week then you spiral. I was going to say and then something happens where you spiral and you can't get there and then and then So much of my life has been that yet. I'm so fucked up. It's like I'll literally get up and go, I'm gonna have a good day today. I'm gonna go to the gym. I'm gonna eat healthy. By nine o'clock that night I've had taco Bell. I have not gone to the gym. I've been doom scrolling on my phone. Doom scrolling. I think that too. I truly believe. that social media for me is the a huge drgger. Because we go to it to hide Be like like what I'll do and I didn't realize I was doing this until maybe a month or two ago But like when I was in my OCD spirals, I would go to my phone and then I would spend an hour scrolling. go away, but then when I would stop scrolling and walk away from the phone, it would all come back in a much. So then you go back to this phone because you're like, that's what that's what. Right. But in reality it's this sick I mean Social media is is so bad. It's so toxic. I know. But it has this such this like you and I connected on there. And I know. So there are so many beautiful things to it. So I am you're right, I am grateful for that, but it also can be for someone especially with ADHD, anxiety. I mean, anyone, it's not positive but somebody that has a mental disorder, it can be extremely damaging. Oh yeah. and they know that. L the algorithm isly keeping you. They want to keep you on the phone. I know. it's terrible. I know. I mean, and it's fascinating and it's interesting not to transition into like an interview style thing, One of the things that is interesting about the season of Beef, I was mentioned to you in the elevator just now is like this idea of harmony and dissonance that Osa talks about in episode six And I bring that up because basically you just answered the question I was going to ask is where do you feel harmony and where do you feel dissonance in your life And I think that harmony is is when I'm watching a movie. Yeah. when I'm working and when I'm watching uh a movie that completely takes me out of my own brain. And it's very hard for a movie to take me out of my brain. Which oness also do have besidees sccream I mean, all of the really good Classic scary movies did that for me as a teen. Now I would say, you know a movie that just took me out of my own brain that I was really surprised about. I watched at home was Hamnet I was I just was Blown away, of course, so was everybody But it Because my ADHD is also bad, if all of the sudden I amm not completely engaged I'll go to my phone. So I have to now put my phone in another room if I'm gonna to watch a movie and be like, you have to commit to this, Miaela. Like this is not, you know like a theater. Also like one of the things I found interesting about Ham that I think which is fascinating, you bring up horror movies and I'm not saying Ham it's horror movie but it kind of is.s Dark in a way. But there's something weird about like trauma in films that somehow brings a catharsis to audiences. And I think a lot of what Horror does really well is it deals with trauma I mean, you look at the whole Halloween franchise and what Jamie D Curtis's character goes through from beginning to end, that is a traumatic experience that has now shaped her life and the generations after her. And I think there's something about watching things like that. like H This is going to sound strange, but Hamnet has a cathartic ending I agree with. She gets some kind of closure by through the art of an actor playing her son in a way or of some sort that story is now unfolding that came from her own life. And she got to say her proper goodbye. It's so so beautiful. But so beautiful. I was crying such beautiful happy slash sad tears which that' That's what I love. It's It's It hard because I have the voice that I too, which is so high pitched because the genres that I love, the movies that I love are all very dark. like the Mystic rivers, three billboards, the movies that I and scary movies too, I don't like Gore. I'm not a Gore person It' same as you. I can't Iot do Gore. like Wh why do you need to put that in didid you really need to show that? It just violence for violence' sake to be brutal. Not. But I like a good supernatural like the orphanage. I don't know if you saw the orphanage or just movies that that are I like the supernatural aspects. like love I love movies that deal with the supernatural. and I think it's because it again, it takes me out of of this two D worldor into something else. Yeah, and there's something about music and editing too Y Like I saw the trailer came out the other day for Nolan's Odyssey and like there was just something in that trailer that struck me that has made my brain feel better, which is this I wrote about it on my social the other day, but Odysseus goes away for his twenty years. The dog is something that he is constantly thinking about. in the trailer, you can see the dog go from puppy to older And it's like this interesting thing about time and punching of time and how a dog's life is like teen, fourteen, fifteen years but every year is seven years essentially kind of in a human's life, the way they perceive time in that way. Oh my gosh, you're gonna make me start crying. I found that to be so like My brain found it soothing to think about and how we perceive it. And while it's devastating, it's also beautiful to get perspective. like I'd seen an interstellar when Cony was watching his kids grow up for twenty three years after it's only been four hours for him. I mean, imagine what that would feel like. And I think that there's something about the art of movies, the editing, the timing, the music that just kind of makes my brain It's like it takes my brain from like a six lane traffic driven highway to a one way street with just me on it completely agree And I'm like sailing through the road. I don't know how all of a sudden you feel aligned. I feel Music for me has always been that. Like really, really good music is I all of a sudden feel aligned music in movies and I mean Phineas in for beef. I mean ye Phineneas' score for beef and Pineneas was on the show a few weeks ago. He watched it. He's remarkable Re It's remarkable. But even the music in Max Richter, who did the score for Hamnet. 'ause that main piece that he uses, which is also an arrival You've seen a arrival, right? Yes, and it is. That ending. Oh There is something So And people don't talk about it enough is music is what sets the tone for for everything. Yeah. and editing and I think it's why like I love trailers, like love trailers. I will sit on YouTube and I will watch trailers. Like I love a good trailer. I love a good edit to a trailer. I love music videos. I love, you know like there's something with with music and that When you put that all together I'm just Phineas for beef seeason two if you haven't seen it. I personally have never seen a show where the music ivated me this in the way that Fineas' score did. It is I have listened to that score in the car for since the show came out. I mean, and and that's it's it's just Everyone, Josh and Lindsey. emmbrace and bef. That score That synth piece that hits. I remember when I got when I had him on the show, the show hadn't come out yet. I was like, canan we go into spoilers? Because I have to ask you about this synth For people who haven't seen it, they' just there's a moment where they' Oscarized it can Cry Mullelligan's characters reconcile in a way. I won't give it anything away, but it's already out. But like there's this synth piece that hits that just Like the hair on my arms just stood so beautiful. and We had that on set Did you? Phineas' music was there for you? That little Beause episode could Yeah they I remember You know, I was I don't want tona spo anything but it was all bandaged up and I was off to the side And I could see the creator listening to that song while he was Wing. the scene and And I overheard the song and I was like, I mean, it just Brilliant. Yeah. Another thing that centers me is a good winner. U And I I want to dive into because your character, Ava is introduced in beef season two through a Wner Oh yeah, ye. So as Charles is with the drinks, hands them to William, William that comes to you, you're waiting and then you walk. And then there's an amazing one in episode eight where we find your character, she's on on the operating table, but it's a brilliant. L your character is found in these wers. Yeah. And I'm wondering if you could just speak to that as as an actor in the sense of like, What you're doing as you're waiting for the camera to get to you, Are you already I'm assuming you're already in character, you're on your mark, you're waiting, your physicality is already built into that moment. But we find you in these interesting wers in beef. I'm just curious if you can speak on your perspective of those. Well, for the onener with Charles and Bill It was freezing. They were like a p Tiny like d. Yeah, it was so cold. The wind was was going. But I was already, you know, loose and in character because Bill But William makes everything so ashion or like he does something different every single take. You've se in the Dark Kight, right? Of course. You know the line delivery he does in the bank. He goes, you and your friends are dead anybody, but he says it like so like He puts emphasis on certain words that you're like You're a genius.ike did that come Where did that come from? It's also like, What that? you're genius. It works so I mean there's a scene where he He says, I'll see a Mana. And then he goes up the stairs Any like decided to like go up the stairs a certain way that's such an odd choice. But it works so well. So I think that that that That onener was very organic and easy because it's like you have Bill there and you know we did a little thing where sometimes he would spin me and then he would put his arm around me and you know we did little fun things The scene in the finale was the hardest scene that I think I've ever shot. So so give me your perspective of what you're hearing. as you're laying on the operating table because we get to you about h a minute or so. It was truly the hardest thing I've ever had to film. And she's just laying there like this, Like Ava wake up, Ava wake up. I would think it was the easiest thing I've ever done in my career because I'm literally laying peopleeople are like, God, you got This is such an easy. You're going to Korea and you gott to just lay on a hospital bed and I'm like, you're right, this is the life I had to turn my head at an exact time because remember he knives me. Yes, he slices my face. So my eyes are closed I am unconscious, whichich like when you're like you're, you know, you're unconscious but you're listening to the beats and like, this grunt here, this grunt here, and then you're gonna turn your head I was like They're doing all of this work. they are so choreographed. They have put so much time and effort, and all I have to do is turn my head, right All the grunts were different because they're fighting. and the fight scenes so I'm like, Wh in the shit am I supposed to turn my head? Sh should have gave you like an earpiece and just said, move your head. The creators of beef. C you hear this? Sunny. Next time, giveive Mala an earpiece. just say It wasn't my fault? Turn your head now. But I mean, this scene is absolutely remarkable. and this is in the finale. It's so beautiful As you're laying there and you're hearing everything'ack because it's a true wner, I believe. I don'less there's like stitches and I have no idea. but like Like is It's a true runner. I know wner, I know that because I screwed it up multiple times. I had one job, Kevin, one job and I couldn't get it. Like that is the I was like, guys, if anything I've ever done, this is the most difficult because your eyes are closed Yeah The beat changes every time and I'm supposed to kind of feel when the guy picks up the knife to turn my head at the exact time. It was it was like I was so nervous. I was sweating. When are doing a role. And you're having an OCD moment maybe the night before or that morning before you get to set. do you literally feel the transition happen into the character and the OCD just moving away? Is it Is it a sense of like are you becoming Ava and then the OCD is gone? Well, the tricky thing with Ava is I brought a little OCD into Ava. I was bringing a little OCD into all my characters. There was a moment in this season during the golf scene Yeah O camera, you yell fuck. Yeah after you hit the ball. And it's just like it's a little moment, but it's like a very broke R Because Ava, so I made a decision that I was when I when I got the audition that I Because when I first got the audition, she was written as a bitch and very cutthroat I made the decision when I got the audition that I wasn't going play her bitchy, but that I was going to play her like She had had a lot of trauma as a child and as a teen and she'd been this hopeless romantic And she'd been in so many failed relationships where she'd gone for people because of love and passion. and she'd just gotten her heartbroken over and over and over again. And I did a much more of a backstory than this, but this is just the surface That's why you're so great. I feel what you're saying. You do. Oh., thank you. Well ye, so nice. That was She had been she hadd been hurt so many times and then in her twenties and early thirties, she still was trying to find love and she was still getting her heartbroken and she met Troy and she went I'm going to make a decision. I'm either going to have a comfortable life where I'm takaking care of and this guy's fine He's great. you know' great to you sometimes. But he's fine. Yeah, you know. and I'm going to be the queen of this country club and have all of the things that that I'm going to decide are more important than being in love And that is why Ava talks up here She is always very high pitched. Everything around her is always amazing. Everything is always incredible and she is loving her. I've met people like this who are always up here and everything's amazing. because if Ava really sat in with her feelings and her emotions and what was going on and what she was suppressing She' fall apart. So the fuck is a break The fuck is a break. You're seeing a little bit of who Ava really is.. But she doesn't want anyone to ever see that. She wants everyone to always think that everything's perfect. Life is perfect.'re, you know. What's brilliant is we actually don't see it. No. She like that moment for people watching is on camera And it almost felt like I was like did did she do that on a like an improv? Like kind of like a Yeah the of the I mean, it was like I'm like you're gonna to see my cousin. She'll see you right away And And then she hits it and I'm like fuck Yeah, I think that might have been an improv. Cool. I mean, there were always little things that I brought in. and then the wiping of the seat down. I don't know if you remember that with the with the bleach, like wet wipes things like I travel with wet wipes. when she got on the plane, she's talking to Carrie and Kaylee and she's wiping down her seat. And that was just putting a little bit of Michaella into and the lucky bracelet. She can't, you know, when she was getting on the flight, she cannot travel without her lucky bracelet. And that is an OCD thing. That is not like, oh, I need a lucky bracelet. That is like her brain is on a loop I cannot get on this plane unless I have my lucky bracelet and I am calling my husband to try to calm me down because I'm about to have a panic attack and he does not calm me down. so I popp three Xanaxs. And because I'm up here and everything's okay. and I can't let myself break. Okay, you're blowing my mind because I was gonna bring up the bracelet because it's so interesting because these are all things that stood out to me that I don't think I comprehended because youCD Do you have a lucky bracelet that you travel with? I have know, I have things that, you know, the older I haveve gotten, thank God, my OCD has gotten less and less. but I used to have so many things. like you have to touch this three times that's in your bag before you take off or you have to, you know or But now it's not notot as bad, but yes, I have I have lucky things like everyone does that that they have to have when when they travel or when they go anywhere. And I do think that that is why Ava You know, you see You see, you know, you only see a little bit of Ava. Ava's not like a huge role, but I think that Ava has these little quirks that we added to her that make her have a little bit more presence than Th you would think, you know, a character like that would happen. I miss her when she's not on screen. Oh my gosh. That's so nice. She like disappears for a couple of episodes.. And I'm like, I'm like, I want to see more of this character because'ute She was so like there was like a magnetism to her. Thank you. And like but also like just this, I don't really how to explain, but this positivity that she had. Yeah, which was was not written. That was not written in it. It was more of a she was more of a cynic in the sides. She was she was, but I always like playing opposite too of what you're given. And that's what beef's all about is you might I mean, Ava is you know, has that in her, but she's suppressing it. So everything's amazing and silly and fun and don't take life so seriously. You know, I'm golfing and I'm, you know living my best life at all times and I only use aquaf for my skin. I mean, I don't It's all natural, you know, just like Silly things that I have met people who are like that. When I think about the characters that you play, I'm thinking a lot about what you were saying earlier about how when you get into a character, the kind of the OCD kind of melts away. you know, I think about characters you play, Obviously Superman was a big character. She seems really fun to play. And Yeah And we didn't hardly see any of her either, but I have a full character for her Oh were seeing, you know, we'll get to see more about like the things you built because I know Man of tomorrow is coming. we know that I assume you're gonna be in it. By the way, for people who don't know, Michaelle's been working with James for twenty years. Yeah Almost twenty years. You haven't seen super. I mean, started with an H. the first thing you did with him. Well, the first thing I did was Humane. Humane. I knew Iew. How did you know that? That was crazy. I haven't seen Humanze, but I researched you this morning and I was like, That's amazing. It has an exclamation point in the title. Humane Yeah And so like you've been working together for a long time, you audition for him. So I would imagine like you feel super safe when you get to play characters in his world, Guardians of the galaxy and things like that But there's something interesting about what you said about how it kind of melts away. Like when you look at your character in Superman, how does that feel to step into her shoes Well ye Cat is a very strong woman. So I have to turn, you know, it' I have to turn that on. She's very confident I mean, yes, she's very insecure, but she projects to the world that she is very strong, she is no bullshit. The thing that I love about Kat is she knows what she wants and she gets it and she finds a way. And she uses her sexuality and her looks to her benefit And I think there is something so cool and unapologetic about that that I really am like. She owns it. She owns it. She owns her body. she owns, I mean when we when I went in for to create the not create the character, Juliana had all the costumes, but I said to Juliana I like that that we're I want to gear more towards the comics and how, you know, she has the the cleavage and the tight dresses and that I wanted to lean into that because I I find it very empowering for that character. And she hold herself She holds it. She holds herself way differently than even Ava. And she She is so unapologetically like, I'm sexy I love it that I'm sexy. I'm going to use that and I I'm confident in that. and That it's so opposite of me that it feels so fun to be able to play. When you So that's interesting to me because like I think Ben Stiller said this, like when you're acting, your body doesn't know you're acting, right? Exactly. And so like you're still putting yourself through those emotions. So when you get to play in like that character and feel her presence in her and her strength feel sexy. Does that then do you then notice that that changes at all in your real life of how you perceive yourself and your own perspective of like how you walk through life? Like you go, I kind of like the way cat walks through life. So I want to take a little bit of that confidence into my m or is it completely shut off? Yeah, no, I think that I You know, you sound like you're the same way, but like everything that we do I don't do anything half fast. Like I'm like pour myself into every roll pour. So it's only natural that Every time I do a role, I put myself apart, you know, some of myself in it, some of my experiences in it, and then I take out some of of them that I created comes in with me for the journey and then that becomes a whole Another you know person and I feel really grateful for the roles that I've gotten to play in the last year because I've taken a little bit of each one of them and've I've also given myself to You know, a little bit of myself to each one of them. Do you leave stuff with them U notot really, I wish I was like that. That would be really cool if I could just lock it up and leave it.h but, uh Yeah, I mean, I do feel a lot of gratitude towards being able to play the roles I've been able to play the last year. I look at Ava andat all the different characters you play, some of them walk differently. some of them hold themselves differently. C does. I My cat is like, even like when I'm when I'm doing cat, you kind of like up more Uuh and I'm like'm that's not my natural demeanor at all and then Eva's more yeah, I mean sometimes I think of like a certain animal or a surgeon u You know, I Rachel for Rachel Brosnan, I gota I always shout her up, but I got to shout her out again because she, not only is she incredible, but she on the first Superman She really saw me And she gave me so much confidence in in career and was like, you know, u suchuch a champion and she recommended her movement coach to me and that movement coach completely was like, she was incredible for beef. Julia Crockett was she's just Absolutely incredible. And So I would yeah, we, you know, what Julia helps me like we think of certain ways and certain You know, Like there's like when I'm golfing, I do like a little shake. like that's a little like I'm like, why do I do that? But it's like a little OCD thing that Ava does, like before she hits the ball that I came up with that she wanted to do, you know? Like there's yeah, there's like little things that little quirks that she has that are slightly unhinged, but in a sweet Not threatening way. Yeah. Do you remember the first time you felt seen in general as the artist you are? Like I mean, I feel like growing up and I remember being like a kid and just not feeling seen, right in a way. Do you remember the first time someone actually saw you outside of your family, but as an artist? Yeah, I mean, I think I think that there was I had a teacher, it's always a teacher. who's since passed rest in peace, but That was a science teacher in G. junior high who really like was like, there's something about you that's really special, that's really magnetic. and I believe in you. and For a kid that has OCD I mean, I'm sure you know for someone to see you is and it's why So I we see each other. Yeah, ye, but it's so and I my My thing because I want to be seen, because I so felt like I wasn't, is to make other people feel seen And the role that I've been able to do that with that I'm like so grateful for is chopper in one piece. This is a great character. You did facial capture for this, which is really cool. Like you have the dots in your face, which's really capturing. I didn't have the dots my face. No, they now they have cameras at all times on me. Well I go in for a week and I do have the dots and I do all of my, you know eight like all the syllables, all the alphabet, happy, sad, confused, all the different all the different emotions and say a bunch of different things. and then they're able to just film me and the animators go off that. It's incredible. Like is it like do you actually see your face on the character When I watch him Yeah a thousand percent. Because it's so incredible. visial capture is the way they do this technology. So every little movement of your eye every time I blink Chopper blanks Every time I scrunch my nose, Chopper scrunches his nose. I mean, it is It's so funny because I have a friend who told me like I'm very animated in with my facial features and my expressions, which I need to tone down a little bit. but I'll keep those in time. It's too much. But my friend was like If you put Michela into a movie It wouldd be like a Telen Novella because no one would believe. It was actually James Gunn, who says this. because your expressions are so unbelievable and so like that people would be like, that's bad acting. So chopper is like a dream because I get to have all of those crazy facial expressions And it works for the character. And Chopper, you were saying Chopper kind of gave something to you about Ch Chopper. Yeah. So when I auditioned for Chopper, I didn't I initially passed because I was doing beef and my ADHD and my OCD I can only do one thing at a time. And I had been doing voiceover auditionions since Guardians you know over a year, maybe two years, and I wasn't getting any feedback. so They said it's three episodes on a Netflix show and I was like, you know, I'm going to pass on it because I'm working on beef And then a week later, my agent said they asked for you specifically. takeake a look at the sites took a look at the sides and I was like, Oh This is this is me. I've never looked at something which sounds so crazy because he's a Ranger boy, you know, but I was like, I've never felt so connected in that way to a character to where I didn't I didn't study well, I didn't know what it was until after I booked it, but I didn't have to, it came so naturally. It was so already ingrained in me. and Chopper's biggest thing is because he's been picked on his whole life and he's been an outcast his whole life He has so much empathy and wants other people to feel seen so much. It's like his goal. to the people that he loves, he wants to make sure that they are protected and they feel seen putut them above himself always because that's just That was the trauma that he had. and u So Playing that character brings me so much joy Bing in catharsis, it sounds like it's Yes, and it has been. It's been so healing. I mean, talk about helping with my OCD Chopper helps every single time. Really How so much. I'm not really sure, but I think it's because Chopper is the first roll where it I feel and I haven't I haven't watched the anime, so I'm probably going to get, but I don't watch it on purpose because we're not based off the anime But it just feels so right and so aligned. And so that when I get to do a scene, even if it's a really sad scene or a trauma scene or a dramatic scene, comes so naturally. It's like It's it's so cathartic. I mean, every time I get to play this little guy, I'm like, My OCD not only is non existent But there's something about this role that helps really like kind of Put it at bay It's so beautiful. Yeah, I'm really grateful for it. That'saz I want to go back real quick to beef. the animal and bug thing I brought this up to Pineas, which I think is really interesting' like the way way someone treats an animal, you can really learn a lot about a person through that. Even like Charles saving the bee. like I remember bringing that up to Phineas too. I'm like, that's really interesting. it speaks to who that individual is and that softer side of somebody who, you know, you don't know, but it brings out a vulnerability in that person. likeike as somebody who has a dog, same with me, do you find animals to be interesting vehicles into vulnerability and kind of how you find how a character may operate. Yes. I mean, I use Yeah, this isn't really answering your question, but I use my dog for for so much is like my little muse. I mean, my name's Ava in you run scenes your dog I don't. She would She does not want anything to do with me usually. She'd be in the other room. I mean, I'm like, anytime I'm like, I'm crying or spiraling or she's like She like leaves the room. She's like, bitch, I've done enough. I've been around for fourteen years. I don't need any more of this shit. I have earned the right to be in the other room, so no I do not I do not run lines with her. but I think that, you know, animals always play Yeah. If somebody exactly what you said, if somebody loves animals To me, they're already a good person. If somebody has empathy for animals because that's an animal is something that can do nothing for you.ook Guardians three and that I when I'm Speaking of that, like that audition, James said because they wanted James initially wrote that role to be a mechanical harsh voice. So he said to me, I want you to audition for this because you have a special voice And I want casting to hear it for future projects, but you're most likely not going to get this And so I got to throw everything away and just play a bunny rabbit and but I interpreted her as like Es no matter how hurt she's been, everything's amazing. Life is amazing. no matter how much trauma, she still has so much goodness and kindness and she's still naive in the fact that she still thinks that people are good, which I always want to I believe I still believe everybody's It might be the OCD. Honestly, I feel the same way. I just I assume people are gonna do right thing. Me too. And you really get disappointed a lot. You get hurt, but I get in tIiffs with my friends about this because I'd rather go through life like that Yeah than go through life and be like people aren't like I'd rather go through life and yes, you're gonna to get hurt and you're gonna to get devastated at least every single human doing the best that they can given their circumstances and the consciousness that they have at that time You know, we're always growing, we're always evolving. I am always trying to become a better version of person that I was even ten minutes, you know, like always, like I'm always trying. and And people are just trying their best And and that might come from the fact that we do have OCD and we we're constantly having these little things that nobody else knows that's happening in our brain. So when somebody does something, I'm like, Who knows what's going on in their brain? Who knows why they reacted like that? Like And I always try to have empathy for them. I feel like I'm kind of like strange in that way where'm I don't know, I just feel like I'm like overly empathetic about everythinging in my life. It's a beautiful. sensit. N I'm so sensitive. Yeah. Oh my gosh. But to a fault, I feel like for me, to a fault where it's almost like I'm a little more naive But I love that. Yeah. I bring that into every role I bring I brought that into the Guardiian' role. I brought that I I brought it into Ava. She's like blissfully unaware, and there's a There's a naive quality about her that instead of her being this bitchy country club kind of like She there's like something kind of sad and heartreaking you could see it. Yeah feel Yeah And you can really see it in that scene when she gets on the plane. I think it's Charles or Kayley says a to you like shouldn't let him speak to you that way. L like I'm used to it. She just goes Thad Zanx and I'm gonnaleep deals with it. Yeah. It's how she's decided to go through through life. I think there is something really beautiful about having and I hope you never lose that quality That is what makes you you and it's what I'm sure draws people to you and draws the situations that you have in your life. Yeah. I mean, I think it drew us Yeah this conversation because first of all, I had before we even started the caragege I didn't even know you had OCD. So but I sit down, I'm like, by the way, I'm so glad you did. Yeah, there was something about your energy that made me feel safe to share that. so thank you. You seem like you're in a good spot Like you see finally. Yeah. I think the roles you're playing are helping guiding you in beautiful way. It's like the universe was like, Mikaella, we're going to give you these incredible roles. I mean, the one piece role was was begging you to take it, begging you to take That role is such a blessing from the universe. You know When When I talk about it, people are like, oh my gosh, you talk and I'm like, you don't understand. L a child. It has helped heal so much childhood trauma in me So I hold it very, very precious and dear to me. And I do think that when, you know, because I've been working in this business for a really long time didn't all click in for me and stuff didn't start happening until I started not letting my OCD really take over my life and more living my life. and and You know, because before I would be like, can't, I can't go to dinner with my friends. I can't go out I can't do this. What if I get an audition And if I get like OCD for an actor is like with the lines and the it can be hell. meanag And the anxiety of that it was like if I say yes to this and I get an audition, then I'm not going to get this role and then this is going. And so I made a decision about three years ago and I went I'm not going be a good actor if I'm not living my life And and I wasn't. I wasn't 'cause the life lived is what L lived is what when you watch all of, I mean, the greatest actors that I'm just so captivated by, they can just be looking at the screen they've had I mean, I've listened to interviews with them and there's trauma there and there's life lived and there's experience and there's heartbreak and there's sadness. There's also immense joy That's what makes them so captivating on screen. Yeah. There's no actors that I know that I admire so much that haven't had Somebody asked me like, what makes a good actor? And I was like, trauma, you know? because You kind of, you have to go through shit, you know And it's fascating, I would imagine and this is a whole deeper conversation is the things you can work through through your characters. Exactly. We are really lucky that we get to do. I mean, yes, it's hard that the people think, you know, I have friends from home that are like You've lived in LA for this long. How are you just now like, why don't you just audition? Why don't you call Disney app and and they have no idea how hard it is to be in this business. They have no idea how hard it is to even get the audition. Let alone when you get the audition, you're auditioning with a h Hundreds of other people, you're sending in a saf self tape. You have no idea there's so much out of our control. And OCD is all about controlling We want to control everything. We want certainty and I am in the business of the most uncertainty possible. I'm literally I went into the worst I For someone with OCD, like I couldn't have picked. you could be the best, you could be the most talented, you could be, but you're just not you simply don't have the essence of that role. And that's why I started going, you know what? inststead of looking at these sides in the breakdown where they say, we want this type of a character, I went I'll give them that type of a character, but I'm also giving them Mikella as well I'm also giving them my experiences. I'm also giving them my trauma, I'm also like I'm bringing in and making it you know more me because That's the that that's it also makes it more fun. Yeah. I mean, uncertainty is the the pinnacle of OCD in the sense of like, I think one of the things that doctors stress a lot is the moment you can be okay with uncertainty is the moment you beat your OCD because it like it's like living in a world of like, oh, did I knock someone over? No, I'm gonna keep walking because I logically know that I would know if something happened. But are you certain? know And then it's on a loop. and then it's like how do Some people say, like, are you seeing things? I'm like, No, you're not seeing things. you're just thinking yourour brain worst thing happens. Always. And why worst case scenario? I mean there's a and then if it happens once where you think a worst case scenario and then Let's say that kind of comes true a little bit then you're like, Oh, it's That real. That's real. it's a catastrophe. It's It's it's the worst. But as we've said, like for anyone with OCD out there that's watching this, it can be a huge superpower. It gives you so much empathy. I think it allows you connect with people on a different level. Like I, you know, I've started doing these conventions.'t I don't know if you know anything about conventions, but like where you like take pictures of fans Yeah ye yeah. I They are so precious to me because if I would have had that at fourteen and somebody would have really seen me like a Matthew Lillard or a, you know someone from Scream and if they would have really seen me, it would have changed the way I felt about myself in my life. take those conventions so seriously and they're so precious to me because you don't know who you're talking to and what What you know what I mean? Like what your role meant to that person? What your role meant. And somebody who's really been incredible, I just said, who is incredible at conventions and that really gets that is Matthew Lillard. Matthew was sitting in this seat in November and he's such a great human. He's also gonna be a man of tomorrow, which got announced today, which is sc. Youven have seen Matthew Lillard. No, it was announced I'm so is it for sure officially O officially can talk about it. Okay. You you have seen with Matthew Lillard? I cannot say anything Is this your first time ever working with him? not worked with? I have not I know. I met him at James's wedding. mom and dad and he doesn' It's an impro line. Yeah, and he doesn't know which is c he's so briant.. the impact that that he had on me, you know, but but but seeing him And you just the whole point is you just don't know what you're going to do to someone else's life. And that's why as an artist, it's important because people do