Navigating Forgiveness After Betrayal

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Go to orderlymeds dot com slash podcastot That's orderlymeds dot com slash podcast Taking care of yourself feels great. CA medications are not FDA approved eligibility required and determined by a licensed provider and individual results may vary your website for details is Ke Miller from OK Storyime. So I have a furry friend named Mia to me. She's more than a pet, she's practically family Part of that love is what's best for them And for my dog, that includes the best diet. At Jinx, all dogs deserve to eat well Jinx has premium all natural foods to transform your dog's health and happiness no matter your dog's size or age. Jinx never has any fillers like corn, wheat, or soy. For Mia, she loves the mini biscuits the most. Jinx offers plenty of healthy and fun options for your dog. Shop at national retailers like Walmart, Petmart, Chheewy, or Amazon I am so excited to be here tonight at the AT and T Performing Arts Center in Dallas with my dear friend, Matthew Hudy Oh, we're done. It's lovely to be with you all I was sat right there actually watching the first half with all of you and it was so fun. I enjoyed it. You were amazing I loved it. I love being out there with you all. It's weird to now be on this side of it Well thank you for coming, man. Matthew and I have been friends for a few years and I've always found your love, relationship, dating advice to be So fascinating and interesting and I feel like you have such a good perspective on it all. and I know a lot of people here were very excited to dive deep into it. So let's dive straight in. I want to start with Probably one of my favorite questions to ask you is How do you stay open to love when you're exhausted by dating I feel like how many of you dating right now make some noise Right. So people are tired of dating apps. They're tired of dating, they're tired of figuring out what to wear, who' pays the bills, how much do you spend? All this stuff d has become exhausting. How do you stay open to love Dating has become so tiring. I think Dating is an interesting word because If you just If you just take away the word dating We are just human beings that want to connect with each other We really Most of us, I think, if not all of us deeply want to find love, whether we admit it or not. We want to have that experience. and It's a The idea of dating in order to find love is the part people hate We don't want to do the process But we really want the result I'm a big believer in the idea that we have to stop seeing it as dating and start seeing This is just an ongoing expression of parts of ourselves that we want to express anyway Who among you doesn't just enjoy being flirtatious at times because that's part of you Who among you doesn't have a sexual side that wants to be expressed becausecause that's part of you You know, who here doesn't just enjoy having a conversation with someone cute? not knowing where it might go I think sometimes we lose that when we become obsessed with the goal all of the time. Yeah. We lose the expression of ourselves actually ironically is the thing that leads to the goal if we can access that. The problem is that playfulness gets lost. Once we start freaking out about our timeline, we start freaking out, we want a family We're worried that we're going to run out of time You know, we want to get married. we see all of our friends getting married We're the one who's still left. We think there's something wrong with us. We're starting to worry that it's never going to happen for us. That kind of anxious feearful energy robs us of our playfulness And now we go on a date as a kind of shadow of the person that we once were when we started this process, as someone taking it very seriously, as someone who the moment they the moment you give an answer on a date that I don't like I'm not like I'm on a date with a stranger who just said something. I'm like, you're wasting my time What are we doing? I gave you an evening. And you just gave the wrong answer. You just gave the answer that means I know you're wrong for me. Wh am I here now I'm mad at you But but you don't even know this person You know, so we lose we lose the curiosity, we l use the play and we get kind of further and further stuck. Yeah, the idea of switching dating for connecting, relating, flirting It' such a healthy mindset because Dating now has so much baggage and that word carries so much weight And it as you said earlier, if you've started to feel that it's exhausting and tiring and draining. That word now, o, I have to go on a date comes with I've got I got to get ready Oh gosh, like how long iss it going to be? Can I get out early?? And so that word's carrying so much weight now, whereereas when you start saying, wait a minute, just see us connecting. Just see us relating, Just see us flirting. All of a sudden, you're like oh, I can do that That's possible for me. Yeah. And it might be worth it for its own sake There might be something about this process of connecting with other human beings that is worth it for its own sake is chemistry Overrated, underrated or properly rated. and defend your answer. I'm going to say U We overrate the wrong kind of chemistry Okay, and we underrate the right kind of chemistry. Thank you. Yeah I think that we get chemistry mixed up a whole bunch of other things that aren't really chemistry like someone doesn't text you back and you get feeling in your stomach. And you go, this must matter a lot because it's making me feel awful Why do I feel like crap right now that this person isn't texting me? I feel afraid. I don't feel good enough. And then you know, hours later after waiting and waiting and waiting, they text you and all of a sudden you go I'm okay. I'm okay. Oh, that feels so good. And you go, I really like this person. It had nothing to do with the person. It had everything to do with their absence. Are you in love with their presence or are you in love with their absence You know, we get addicted to these cycles with people and it's kind of what we know. And it's very, very dangerous It happens to us all the time and it happens very quickly and very subtly and very sneakily. A lot of us will get suspicious if someone likes us too much That is so true It's almost like if someone likes us a lot We go, there must be something wrong with you. But then someone comes along and they're not sure about us And you go, you might be on to something It's like we date as if as if dating is a VIP nightclub. There's great places. you could go and have an amazing time in these places They're serving the same drinks There's even better people at these places because they're not pretentious and they don't take themselves so seriously and there's just people having a good time and they're not trying to show off by the fact that they're in the right club And then you walk past one place and there's a dude with a guest list. and you go, what's that And you try and go in that place and they say, I' sorry your name's not on the list And all of a sudden you start wondering what amazing things must be going on back there There's nothing amazing going on back there. They're creating demand so that you want to be in there. It doesn't make the place any more valuable. It doesn't make the experience any better behind those closed doors, but they're creating an artificial demand. And that is what so much of chemistry is is this feeling of I'm I'm having to, you know, sing for my supper in dating, I'm having to win you over, I'm having to you know, find a way to access safety. And here's you want to know something really messed up There are relationships that you were in. where you felt an insane amount of chemistry or what you called chemistry for a while Right? Because I'll always say to people Be very careful if you had an amazing weekend with someone and you felt like there was so much chemistry It was a weekend R right, so don't go for the rest of your life comparing The people you date in a genuine like progression an evolution to someone you had a holiday romance with for two weeks, going, why can't I just feel that? You felt that because they went home. It's like fireworks. Fireworks are the best thing ever for about ten minutes The only reason fireworks are so magical is because they end If fireworks didn't end, they'd be the most annoying thing in the world When you go to Disney or wherever and you see fireworks, they know there's an optimal amount of time to show them for to create that magic And there's a moment to stop them so that you leave on that high A lot of us have done that in our dating lives and now we're comparing everyone to the fireworks we had once with someone that only created them because they left, because it ended Now, some of you, as I was about to say, have been in relationships where the chemistry was there for a long time Be very careful about the relationships where you felt Like you were never really safe in the relationship Because there are relationships where the chemistry ends because the chase never really ends You never really feel like you had the person, even when you were with them. How many people put your head up have ever felt like that? You were with someone for a long time, you never really felt safe Like truly safe, like I've got you, we're in this together. And when the chase never ends, the chemistry never ends. Now we go out looking for someone to to be that all over again. And what we're really asking is, can you make me feel as unsafe as I did last time around Beacause that would just really keep me alive What an answer. That was amazing. You reminded me of a study that I love that talks about how What we don't understand with the chemicals of chemistry or that we're experiencing excitement But we're experiencing stress So there's the stress of Are they going to text me And then there's the excitement of, oh my go, they just text me And then there's the stress of Oh my god, are they're gonna ask me out on a date And then there's the excitement of, Ohh my go, they justed me out on a date. And then there's a stress of, oh crap, what do I wear And then there's the excitement of, all right, they liked what I was wearing. And so chemistry is really just excitement and stress And when you spend more time with someone, what happens naturally The stress goes down You know they're going to show up You know they're going to message you back. You know they like what you're wearing And so when the stress goes down, we think we lost chemistry And so we confuse Peace for boredom We think, o, they just got really boring Now they don't entertain me, but really, it's what you're saying. So I want to ask you, what's the difference between Healthy standards and unrealistic expectations I come across people a lot who will tell me I have really my problem is my standards are too high And I'll be like, tellell me about your standards What are they They'll start reeling off standards they have F the way someone looks and No. where they've got to in life. you know, how impressive this person is, how shiny this person is and how the kind of person they need to hold them And then I'll say, well, when was the last time you felt that? And then they'll start talking about some person in their life that has been treating them horribly for the last two years. They've been on and off with this person. They've been constantly kept in limbo. They've never felt like they were really chosen by that person and they're like That was that's who I really feel it with, you know, but I just kind of need to find like, if I could just get that person to commit Than notd be happy I'm like so when you say you have high standards What you really mean is you have incredibly high standards for things that are incredibly superficial or don't matter And you have no standards for someone's character or for how they treat you People who say they have high standards often have non existent standards for being treated well So My philosophy on standards is when we talk about what are healthy standards, we have to start raising our standards in the areas that really matter How kind is someone Can I actually rely on them to show up for me When I was first dating my wife O now like third or fourth date We were supposed to meet up. I went to the theater in London with my family And at the end of this show, I was like, hey, you know, why don't you come over this way and we'll go somewhere or whatever She I didn't know this until later, but she was not happy with this Because she had been to me the last like three times. She sent me a message. And she said, Hey, um There's a really great bar near me Im I think you'll love it Let's go there And I was like You know My family's here. We just went to the theater. It'd be a lot easier tonight if you came this way Do you mind? And she was like, No no, listen, it's all good We'll do another night She took it away She said, okay, let's not have a date tonight. She didn't do it in an aggressive way or even a passive aggressive way. She just said, let's do another night. That was a healthy standard. That was her way of saying You are going to have to start meeting me halfway Or this isn't going to work She didn't have to say it She just had to live that standard And when it wasn't being met by me She kindly took it off the table And had I the next night said, Can you come to me? she would have done the same thing again That's a healthy Standard And a lot of us, when we think we have standards, what we really mean is we Have a list, exactly. And there's a big, big difference because a lot of people with a list are being treated the worst and seem to be okay with it Audrey, how long did it take him to get the message Where are you? I'm as Matthew's wife. That night. Oh that night. Oh, hes he was on it. Okay. ye. he was smart enough to get the message. I love that. But that's such a great example of someone also communicating their standard in a way that isn't aggressive. That doesn't create drama, that isn't like making it a big deal, but it's just clearly saying like Well, this is what would work for me tonight. What I want to get into is why are we so scared? And this, by the way, happens, even if you're already married, even if you're in a relationship, even if you've been together for a few years, we're so scared of communicating our actual needs Because we're scared it will scare the other person away. And so we'll tolerate bad behavior and accept less than we deserve. Before you came out, I asked everyone how many people have accepted less than they deserve and the crowd run ballistic. Which is always funny. But it's true, right? And I'm saying that with empathy, like we all do that to ourselves and it And it's painful. When you realize, wait a minute, I Don't communicate what I'm saying because I'm scared that pushing that person away. walk me through that Why do we do that How do we get better at it A big problem for us is we're more connected in the moment to the fear of losing someone than we're connected to pain we have experienced in the past by not sticking to our standards So The pain in the moment that's more real is I want to find love and This person seems like a viable candidate and I don't want to lose them been in situations in the past where we didn't follow a standard, where we didn't say, this is what I need And we were in a miserable relationship as a result. Think of a relationship where you didn't get your needs met. justust everyone for a moment So I can think of one. I remember a relationship that was hell on earth for me where I did not get my needs met. Think for a moment about a relationship where you didn't feel loved, where you didn't feel considered where you felt like You were always an afterthought where you felt like someone made plans unilaterally and you never got decision. You never got a vote. They just came to you at the end of having made them. Anyone sold that one Horrible, right never know what your life's going to be because someone else is running it for you. Ever been in a relationship where you didn't feel Someone was affectionate. in the ways that you needed or where you didn't get the touch that you needed or the sex that you needed, or whatever it was, think of a relationship where your standard, although it wasn't a standard then But your need wasn't met you, it was a special kind of torture When we're first out of a relationship like that, we're very connected to that torture That can make us say never again. But the longer we're single, the longer we're on our own The more disconnected we become from the pain of that, the more connected we become to the pain of being alone and to the fear of never finding someone It's a false economy to lower our standards in order to get someone quicker. because Going slow is faster That's Going slow is faster. When it comes to love, going slow is faster. You know what? sllow, like ending up in the wrong relationship for five years Losing someone in month three because you realize you're not on the same page. or going slow and someone else is trying to like you know, go full throttle who you met last night and is already telling you how amazing you are and how they can't wait to see you again and how they want to have your babies. It's like It can feel like, oh, this is in some way, we know there's something wrong with that, but also kind of it feels nice because it's like this is exactly Like finally, someone's at least like this into me So it can feel weird to put the brakes on somebody else, but we go slow to go fast You can only know someone's impact in the beginning. You can't know their character I don't care how great they were on a date. No matter how amazing someone felt on a date You do not know their character. you only know their impact. Character can only be measured over time So you need time That resonates so strongly. I've always said don't fall in love too fast because You know, we start making future plans with someone and we don't even know Past we start dreaming up what life could look like when We haven't even lived day with them or a month with them or a year with them. And it's so fascinating how the mind is this imagination machine Like we're the best fiction writers in the world in our mind. the best. And we get so carried away with the version we're writing in our mind only to realize that reality never really caught up but we were living in the promise. I was literally talking to someone. A client of mine a couple of nights ago and They were just saying to me, They were like, Jay, now as I'm talking to you, I'm realizing I was just living in the promise. I never actually had it But there was the promise. One day we'll have this. One day we'll do this together, O day' move in. O day we'll do this, one day, one day, one day And it was just living in Promise World and Dreamland but never in the reality of where they were. By the way, I've done this with like men I've met when I go out and I like will go to a social function I meet another guy. who's just like charmed their pants off I'm just like, o my God, this guy is amazing I would say to Audrey and my wife, I'd be like, That guy was the best. I've come to learn this about myself You can't trust my judgment in the first hour Because some of some of the men in my, like some of the guys made the greatest impression on me that I was enam like I was like, I just want to be this dude's friend We're going to be best friends. I know it from the way you spoke to me tonight I'm like Six months later, I'm like, I can't stand this. This guy is terrible Like and this guy does this to everybody. And this guy's like he's just, he's that guy And there's a wonderful phrase that will save you all a lot of heartbreak and that phrase is just We'll see. It does it, by the way, you don't have to lose your romance to say, we'll see Friends, we'll come to you. How was your date last night So great We had so much fun. Like I haven't had that much fun in a long time. Oh my God That's so exciting Do you think that Easy. We'll see. You can have both You can have both, but the we'll see is really important because character is consistent and you can only measure consistency over time Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of EarsSay, the Audible and I Heart Audioobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook project Hail Mary, massive sci fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. and it's like, o, yo, yeo, yo is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, No, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have and telling this story if I don't go through it. There's places in this book deeply emotionally affected me And I left it on the mic. That's great, 'cause it served the story. People will say like, oh my Godd, I cried at the end. It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to EarsSay, the Audible and I heart audioobook club the IrHart Radio app or wherever youre get your podcasts Someere is here Orderly Meds, we know this time is a reminder that life is full of new beginnings Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next This season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your home If you've struggled with weight loss and are curious about GLP one medications, orderly Meds can help you learn about your options Through a simple virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether treatment may be appropriate for you. Getting started is fast, convenient, and happens online from the comfort of home. This summer, consider a new approach to feeling your best. Visit Orderlymeds d. com slash podcast learn more? That's orderlymeds d. com slash podcast. orrderlymeds d. com slash podcast. Because every new season is an opportunity to take the next step forward Compounded medications are not FDA approved, elligibility required and detined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary see website for details Ke Miller from OK Storytim So I have a furry friend named Mia to me. She's more than a pet, she's practically family Part of that love is what's best for them And for my dog, that includes the best diet. At Jinx, all dogs deserve to eat well Jinx has premium all natural foods to transform your dog's health and happiness no matter your dog's size or age. Jinx never has any fillers like corn, wheat, or soy. For Mia, she loves the mini biscuits the most. Jinx offers plenty of healthy and fun options for your dog. Shop at national retailers like Walmart, Petmart, Chheewy, or Amazon I want to ask you a question that always goes through everyone's mind And seeing as you're on fire tonight in now the bike, this is like let's go for all the tough ones How do you know if someone is the one? in a world where there's plenty of fishhing the sea We're constantly being exposed to other people It doesn't take that long to feel like there's a million more options How do you know if you're with the one or if you're just settling I I think it's really interesting. This is a weird comparison, but I think it's really interesting to watch someone who's built something really amazing in their career Like I've watched Jay for a long time and had been lucky to be friends for some years. But you know, I had seen Jay doing his thing before I ever had met you it' such a joy to see this act of creation happening over and over again in your life where what you started doing evolved and changed and it keeps evolving and changing. The core of it is the same And what's driving you is there and the values that you have It's changed over and over again because constantly sculpting it to be your ideal version of it And it didn't start as your ideal version of it. It started with like a It's got enough of what I need that I can keep going with this because I feel like I'm on the right path. That's what that journey is like in our careers. You don't find the dream job, you create the dream job Right? Its You know, the thing I think that makes us never able to stick with a career or a business or an idea is that we want it to be Dream thing on day one And it just doesn't work like that It needs to be sculpted. There are plenty of people in here who have created businesses that look very different than the business you started on day one becausecause you kept sculpting it, you realizeed, I don't like that part of it as much as I thought I would. Let me change that, but the core of it is the same It's like that in our love lives When we go around saying, who's the one for me, we are missing point that What we do is we find a human being where there's enough of the Good stuff Enough of the values. and a compatibility, a much underrated thing. If chemistry is overrated, compatibility is woefully underrated. Love is not all you need Compatibility is all you need We find people And we expect so much on day one. And I think that great sex, it should get better over time you meet someone and they learn you and you learn them and it gets better because you learn each other. That to me is what a relationship is like. So it's finding someone with enough of the raw materials, enough of the things that make you go this kind of works I feel more myself around you. I feel at home in the best way donon't feel like I'm trying to be something. that I'm not to impress you. I see you, you see me. It kind of There's something interesting here. and I think if we can get curious about those feelings instead of looking for this kind of otherworldly ceiling. willll realize how many people we could actually work with And then it starts to get really interesting because you realize there's a lot more ones than you knew You don't start with the one. someone ends up as the one. I think that's the difference They don't start as the one, they end up being the one because of what you've built together. And now you look back and they go, they Oh look, they're the one But not on day one I think love at first sight is a very, very dangerous concept. Like love at first sight is such an insult to two people who have been married for thirty years. You know what I mean? Yeah I just they're the one. Okay, tell that to two people who have been married for decades and have like weathered storms and one of them got sick and the other one drove them to the hospital every week. and their relative had a drug problem and you had to put up with that relative with the drug problem because this is the love of your life, but you figured it out together. That to me is love Love isn't, I went on a date and now like, o my God, I feel the best I've ever felt. I think that's so powerful. and what a great perspective because yeah, I was thinking about that as you were saying You know, when me and Riley first got together and then we got engaged and got married thought I knew her But it's actually through the last twelve years we've been married nine years we've married, twelve years, we've been together. that I actually feel like I understand how little I knew her. When I said, I love you which is a really fascinating journey to go on to your point where it's like the day we got married was not the day I loved her the most It actually wasn't even possible, even though I may have said that on that day And it's now when we moved to a new country and didn't have any family or friends. And when we were four months away from being broke and she said, Id trust you And then the next morning wanted to buy a plant, right? It wass like moments like that. It's moments like that. and then you move to another place and you build community and you take care of your family and Rush. it's all those moments where you go Oh now I know what love means and now I'm building the skills and the toolkit of what it means to truly love you. And actually my biggest mistake was I also thought I knew you When we got married And now I realize I didn't. So what I love about the advice you're giving of create it, you don't find it is that it's that never stops. What you're saying never stops, and that's why it's great advice Because if you had to find the one, that means you were done the moment you found that person. And that mindset creates such a fracture with reality Which is wait a minute, you're going to have to create and build using your words, create and build every five, ten, fifteen, twenty years. It's never going to stop. And that requires And it requires discipline. And it requires being connected to your why, to your reasons, why the relationship itself is important. I think that's one of the most u missed things in so many relationships is I have these things I call emotional buttons and they are basically how I access an emotion that I want to feel again So for example There's a moment in the movie The fighter withith Mark Wahlberg and Christian Bellle Christian Bale. Christianll ye. There's a moment where Mark Wahlberg is this is going to sound crazy specific, but this is how emotional buttons are. Mark Warberg is about to go into his last fight And he's nervous and his brother comes up to him and he puts his head on his head. And he just rocks with him The crowd is going crazy and it's all you can feel the chaos and the nerves and his bigger brother just comes and makes him feel safe and that scene. I get goosebumps as I say that scene. Cannot think of that scene without thinking about the kind of brother I have two younger brothers without thinking of the kind of brother I want to be to my brothers my No, I'm not say that one because that one's about Audrey and it's too. she doesn't know I have this emotional button, but it's The No because then no because it's a thing it's a it's a little thing she does If I say it, she will stop doing it because she'll become aware of it. And it makes me love her so much. But it's a little thing she does. And when she does it I feel a Deep It's like not a rational thing. I feel a deep, deep sense of love h And I want to like make her as happy as I possibly can I get that because I think of that thing. that she does. and it connects me It connects me to my wife for why I want to show up differently in the relationship A lot of us don't have these emotional buttons or and we certainly don't use them consciously every day. Winston Churchill said people occasionally stumble over the truth but most pick themselves up and carry on as if nothing happened We occasionally stumble over a moment of truth about why we love someone about why they matter so much to us, about how much our relationship enriches and enhances our lives If we don't understand what just happened that made us feel that and bottle that, We will move on as if nothing happened. and then the next time we feel it, it will be by chance. And if that's three months from now, you just went three months without connecting to that feeling which is three months where you might be you know, showing up in lesser ways to the relationship On the other end of that, when is The work, too much work Right? Because there's a spectrum on that. So on one side, we're saying, Hey, we've got to create it, you've got to build it, you've got to work on it. And then I'm sure there are people in the audience going, I've been working on it for a few, you know U Someone made me work on it for quite a while and then I realized When do you know it's too much work? Like how do you know when you're at that end of the spectrum I don't think there's any one moment when we realize over time that We have shown up to the best of our ability and We have tried to find a teammate in them because you can't you have to have a teammate for that If you want something to change, you need a teammate in helping you make that change or you You need their participation in that. There are so many people trying to make a relationship better on their own you need someone to be with you in that process. If you don't have a teammate, if you don't have someone who acknowledges like That's why being with a partner who doesn't value growth is so hard Be you don't have to have someone who's perfect if you have a learner, someone who's humble, curious willing to grow. and But if over time someone shows a complete lack of willingness to figure this out with you And you've communicated that with them I think is its own form of closure The problem for a lot of people is that only really communicate how truly unhappy they are or how many things they've been struggling with on the day of the breakup especially in a long term relationship, That's not a fair thing to do to our partner Like I think we owe it to ourselves and to them to give us to create the closure Here's what I'm really struggling with I'm bringing this to you because I actually care about this relationship. And I feel safe enough to bring it to you and to have that conversation but it's really affecting me And this is really You know, it's affecting me in this way and this way and this way. I need us to work on this. I need us to take this seriously. Whatever that means, whether you and I do it, whether we do it with a coach or a therapist, whatever we do, I need us to take this seriously. This needs to be a priority for us. You and me looking at the problem, not me looking at you as the problem. You and me together looking at the problem and saying, this is an issue. Can we figure this out I think then if over a series of months, you're like, I haven't got a partner in this process or things aren't getting better. One or the other then you might make that decision it Even if you realize you do have a partner in the process, but it doesn't get better, At least partner doesn't wake up one day. to a complete ambush of having no idea any of this was a problem. And then all of a sudden they get hit with it all today I think we owe it to each other for someone not to be surprised on the day that it ended. about the things that made it end Yeah, there's such a reality to communication being The hardest part, not because we're even bad people, but because We were just never trained in emotional vocabulary. Right? If you didn't see great loveo mirrored You weren't able to mirror it if the people in your life always just shut down when there was a problem then you may shut down or Like you said, not only do you only have the conversation onn the day of the breakup, you only have the conversation as an argument So it was never a conversation. It was an argument, a disagreement, a a full blown fight. It was never shared in that moment where maybe it could have been digested, maybe it could have been heard, maybe A lot of that, a lot of our fear of saying the thing that feels unspeakable. our desire for control We're trying to control the situation. And when we're like a lot of us and listen, no judgment because I've done this several times in my life and I'm not proud of it We are trying to protect ourselves And so we hold back and hold back and hold back and hold back. In the meantime, by the way, we're grieving We're grieving the relationship. We're just not telling them that we're grieving the relationship Or vice versa. I've also been on the other side of this and so have many of you That's why you can someone can break up with you. and then two weeks later they're with someone else. you like How was that possible How is it possible that you moved on so fast? They didn't move on so fast They broke up with you six months ago. You're just hearing about it today That's because they were trying to control it It felt safe to them to control it until the last possible minute when they felt safe to leave And then they left, but their controlling of it is what makes it such a traumatic thing for us and vice versa. So sometimes when we are unhappy in a relationship, we have to relinquish some control allow things to break to maybe get better or not But once you put your Once you break it in some way with your partner in the process, you're also now not fully in control of the situation because they can't unkow what they know Now that makes us have to live a little more dangerously also might be the thing that makes us attracted to our partner again because now that they know They might start doing some things and you may not even love everything they do But it might make you start to feel that jolt of like You know, something again. Matthew Hoty everyone That was wow Turned up tonight, Matthew. All right. Before you will let you go, because you've been on the podcast multiple times, which we usually end with the final five We came up with a new version that you can join in on as well. It's called VibeCck And so I'm going to read out some scenarios in love, relationships or dating And the audience is going to decide first whether it's a vibe, which means yes, that's great. or notot a vibe. So let me hear you say it's a vibe And they're not a vibe Nice. And then I'm going to ask Matthew whether he agrees or disagrees with the audience All right, so Vibe check, here we go the first one You're dating someone who always shows up, always listens, always texts back They're kind, respectful, but the chemistry isn't there You keep the relationship going because it's the first healthy relationship you've ever been in Is it a vibe All right I'm going to ask you to make noise on either one. it's a vibe, makeake noise Not a vibe, make noise That was like mildly not a vibe one by a tiny amount. So they're saying it's not a vibe if you keep the relationship going because it's the first healthy relationship you've ever been in. I don't Listen, don't keep it going for like a year like give it maybe a you know, a month to settle in, like settle in and see if you can get used to this new feeling. because it's a new feeling. If you're used to like crazy chaos This will be boring for a minute No No one comes off of drugs and then enjoys a sunset the next day Oh Great answer. You've been dating someone for six months. they treat you like a priority. Talk about long term potential but haven't introduced you to any of their friends or family And when you ask They say it's still early. Make some noise if it's a vibe Don't a vide Young. Very clearly not a vibe. Not a vibe. When should that be happening with that conversation? I mean, listen, there's certain situations that are different. L if someone has kids complicated You have to be respectful of the fact that someone might be taking a serious amount of time before introducing you to those. If you're talking about like their friends or their family, even just their friends That's a weird thing after six months. If you haven ever met anyone in their world to verify who this human being is No, not vibe. Definitely not a vibe. Great. I think we're all agreed on that. All right, last one for all of those who are struggling with dating out there. You've been seeing someone consistently. Great dates, great connection But they don't follow you on social media They never post to you They say they like to keep their private life private Is it a vibe Is it not a vibe Oh that's pretty equal. Wait, who was saying it' a vibe? Is it a vibe? Make some noise How wait, for how they don't did you say they don't follow you? They don't follow you on social media. Come on They don't follow you. It's' listen, it's one thing if someone's like, I don't I mean, are they famous? L if someone's like, very famous and they're like, I don't want to post about you right now because it's going to make your life miserable, trust me. But he's probably not famous. There's this whole trend right now about how if someone doesn't have social media and doesn't post, it's someone's Roman Empire, right? It's like so attractive if someone Yeah. I do think that. listen, I don't think that it's necessary for them to host you anytime soon. I do think that And I think it's lovely when someone is just like their private life is not out there in the world in that way It's a bit weird when they're not following you or they're sort of like not having any interaction, not you know Yeah. I don't want to create any kind of feedback loop whatsoever Suspicious. Tell my wife that. My wife My wifes dad listened to onn purpose like last year for the first time That's kind of like not following me, right, th? Yeah Hell I don't think she's ever followed a single thing that I've done either. So I don't think she's just maybe not into this content All right, well, Matthew's been so kind that we're actually both going to take some questions from the audience. So Paige, where are you, Paige There's Paage up M make some noise from Paage everyone So Paige is going to come around, raaise your hand if you have a thoughtful, conscious, kind question and you haven't had too many drinks yet. Paige is going to find you and me and Matthew can take some of your questions. You can direct them at both of us to Matthew, whatever you like, he's here. Make the most of it. this is great advice, great insight Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of EarsSay, the Audible and IHart Audiobook Club This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Lily Chu, the author of the Audible original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already. It's a story about a forensic anthropologist who secretly writes mystery novels, an actress who adapts his book into a film, and what happens when a meme and a mediatur collide with a slow burn romance It pererformed by Simul Lu and Philippa Su, and it is an absolute blast When you actually hear the performance You realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence like the cat in the corner is black In my head, it's the cat in the corner is black, not the dog, not the derbil. But someone else might say it, The cat in the corner is black That's always fascinating to me and how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive Listen to ears say the Audible and IHart Audioobook Club on the IHart Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts is here At Orderly Meds, we know this time as a reminder that life is full of new beginnings Whether you're celebrating the nice weather, starting a new chapter, planning a vacation, or simply looking ahead to what's next, this season can be the perfect time to invest in yourself and your home. If you've struggled with weight loss and are curious about GLP one medications, orderly meds can help you learn about your options Through a simple virtual process, you can connect with licensed medical professionals who can determine whether treatment may be appropriate for you. Getting started is fast, convenient, and happens online from the comfort of home. This summer, consider a new approach to feeling your best V visit orrderlymeds d. com slash podcast to learn more. That's orrderlymeds d. com slash podcast. orrderlyeds d. com slash podcast. Because every new season is an opportunity to take the next step forward Compounded medications are not FDA approved, elligibility required and determined by a licensed provider. Individual results may vary see website for details This is Ashley I from the Almost Aamus podcast. Can I be honest for a second? Some mornings I look in the mirror and I think, whyy do I look this tired? Puffiness around the eyes, dullness? because sometimes stress starts showing up on your face before you even realize it. And that's why I've been loving this holistic goddess organic castor oil rolean with frankincense. No crazy chemicals, no expensive treatments,'s just organic Pastter oil, Frankincense in this roseQartz roller that feels so good on tired stressed skin. I look for anything that can de puff me and this really did. my under eyes look brighter. My face looked way more refreshed. It's almost like my face just exhaled. So try the Holistic goddess orrganic pastter oil roll on with Frankincense yourself. Use my promo code, Ashley at try H g. com slash Ashley for fifteen percent off, promo code Ashley at tryhg. com slash Ashley I think's a secret sauce for like a long term marriage. What's your name? Sahar. Sahar, nice to meet you. Where are you from? Houston. Awesome. Well actually from Sorry. What in England?. No, no way. Well, I think you should start with this one. You've had a long term marriage. Longer term? Yeahah, some bit honestly say the biggest thing that I've seen work for us And I've seen work for the couples I interviewed for my last book who haveve been together for decades, far longer than we have is people who never tried to change each other Respect means I'm not trying to change you I'm happy to watch you grow. and patient while you grow. But I'm not forcing you to become the person I want you to be or need you to be I'm happy to let you have the freedom to be the person you are Because over your relationship, people are going to play so many different roles. They're going to take on so many different hats. There's going to be so many different transitions that if I don't respect you and let you be who you are, That's going to be the reason why we can't be together And those signs of who someone was were really evident in the beginning You just shut them out. because the chemistry or the attraction overtook them I'll give an example. for me Since Rathy's met me, my purpose has always been my number one priority My purpose didn't look like this when we met It looked like me booking a tiny little room in London and speaking to five people on a Friday night But Radi knew that that was my priority And ever since I met Rileigh, I knew her priority was being with her family. She adores them, she loves them She's the incredible bubbly human being because of the love that she has for her family And at so many points in our life, my wife could have said, you work too hard, you focus too much on your purpose And I could have said, Well, we've built an amazing life. Why do you need to always go hang out with your parents and ose two things would have broken our relationship But I understand that Her family is what makes her the person I love And she understands that me doing this is makes me the person best she loves. And so that' that's normal digitaliz I do Love that answer love that Hi, I'm Victoria from Houston. Hey, Victoria L lot of Houston in the house. Thank you so much. I just want to know if you think cheating is forgivable whether emotionally or physically. It's a nice easy one. Matthew, why don't you go thister I should have gone first on that one I think I heard Robert Green once use the phrase if someone nobody ever does something once. If someone did something, assume it's a pattern. or that they've done it in the past many times Now I think that's really great survival. If I was giving like handing out survival advice for life and human behaviour, I would say that's a really, really important lesson I also have to temper that logic. with bit of humanity and compassion for ourselves which is that Probably everyone in this room has done something in the past that they regret and wouldn't do again. and learned from and wish they hadn't done and that informed your life, it changed your life in some way There's a British poet. David White who We can't stand the culture of no hashtag, no regrets that we all live in today He said, anyytime I hear someone say, no regrets, I think where have you been regret is actually important and serves a very important function When you regret how you treated someone in high school because you were mean to someone or you bullied someone and that affects you. It might change the way you treat people for the rest of your life If you didn't regret it, you wouldn't change. Do I believe once a cheater always a cheater? I think life's more complicated than that And I think that part of having compassion for ourselves is realizing that other people are capable and worthy of Forgiveness too. And there is a really, really, really big butt here It's not your job to fix what someone else broke trauma of that kind of betrayal is deep for most people extxtraordinarily deep So If you betray someone in that way You better, if you want that relationship, you better understand the journey that is ahead because there is a long journey ahead You are not in a sprint. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's a sprint You're in a marison. And you saying sorry might be an acknowledgement today. It might help someone feel seen today In six months, it won't stop their emotional flashback It won't stop them having a revisit of these feelings a year from now when they think about that betrayal You're going to have to be along for that ride and respect the damage you have done And respect that your job now is to be an enormous part of the reparation of that damage. what I see routinely is people who have been cheated on trying to do the work for the both of them Can I be back with them I don't know. what are they saying right now What are they saying Are they saying, you know, I know I know what I've done. I know that this has caused deep damage. I know this is going to take a long time. I'm going to be with you the whole way. Not only that, I'm going the thing that happened for me that what triggered that It is never going to trigger me again in that way, that's never going be my response So that trigger again because I'm going to go out and do the work to make sure that that's never my response to that trigger again And that might mean therapy over time, might mean coaching over time. that for it is going to be a long journey for them There's a great line, Jacob M Broad, said, Consider how hard it is to change yourself And you'll realize how foolish it is to think you can change someone else How many of you at the beginning of every year set a resolution that's really, really, really important to you. And then by the end of January, you've broken it That was something you decided to change and you couldn't stick to it. Now imagine being with someone who cheated And even though they're sorry because it's inconvenient right now that the relationship is falling apart actually want to change the fundamental part of them that made them cheat in the first place. If they don't want to do that work, there's no amount of forgiveness on your side that will make any difference to this relationship whatsoever. So be forgiving, That's a very kind and compassionate act. Don't be a fool Mike Drop. No No need no additions. That's a beautiful answer, no need. Hello Hello, what's your name? My name is Pierte Ninang. This is my dream by the way to be here, meet too J. thank you. So great for you. How do you deal? I think this is on Matthew since you're a dating expert. not that I don't trust you J, but I haven't dated in a long time because it's been a lot of work to figure myself, deal with the traumas, blah blah blah And I'm in a place where like you would think that I'm ready to dig because I am who I know who I am But at the same time, I'm forty three. I'm independent, I pay my bills, I take myself on dates, I accept my friend requests. I mean, I love my company. But then I also crave, I've always had a dream about having a partner. U So it's like, I want to meet somebody But at the same time, I can do bad by my own self. I don't want to get in a relationship where I have to build somebody up. I don't want to get in a relationship where I owe somebody or they feel like they're improving my life because right now I'm taking care of my life in every way. I don't mind eating alone. I buy myself of course, I buy myself everything I want And I'm not rich, but I'm happy. Got it. So how do I go out like how do I start? like how do I Like what do I do? I'm happy, but Thank you It's a wonderful thing that you have gotten to that point in your life where you know who you are You've done all of this work on yourself And there's a safety that you have created in the life that you have built. What I hear is that there's this other part of your life that you really want, that you keep saying you want It represents an area of life that you can't control the way you can control everything else. You can control your work, you can control how you take care of yourself, you can control The the food you eat, you can control, you know, if one friend lets you down, you fight you put your effort on another friend. like you've built all this safety at a certain point what you call independence is really a desire to keep clinging to control And by the way, that would be fine, P ofvet if you were incredibly content and happy and wanted nothing more from your life. do want something more, which is why you stood up in front of this whole room and expressed a desire to find a relationship So You want more, but you're afraid of what a relationship could bring And my guess is Part of that is and learning to really trust yourself I'm going to take a wild guess and say that what you're really afraid of Is someone coming into your life who you God forbid like And that Everything up Because all of a sudden, it feels like there is an element of your joy that you do not have complete control over. And maybe what's happened in the past is you have been in a situation where you like someone and all of a sudden, you felt very out of control because you couldn't trust yourself not to keep Overgiving in a relationship, not to show up in ways that eventually meant that you got walked over. or that your happiness was compromised And so there's a desire never to return to that and When we have a desire never to return to that, what we really say is, I just got to keep myself away from the from that temptation because I know if I get too close to it It's not someone else will mess up my life I will mess up my life becausecause the reality is And this is the important thing for you to remember If you trust yourself, Don't need to worry about the impact anyone else is going to have on your life Don't have to trust anyone else People how do I how could I learn to trust again Don't worry about it Just trust you. Tust not that someone's never going to betray you or they're never going to come along and start taking too much or taking advantage of your generosity or Trust that the moment someone starts doing that You can have a boundary And if that boundary isn't respected, you have the power to walk away When you trust yourself, you don't need to worry about someone else coming in and screwing everything up The one thing that