Final Rules and Closing Thoughts

Is it too late to find a different moderator for this event? No. You picked me, my friend, or maybe ChatGPT did, but nonetheless, here we are. Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. Silicon Valley executives make a lot of promises about the way AI will reshape our lives. They typically paint a rosy picture about how AI will make us more efficient at work. It will do all the chores we hate, so we can spend more time with our family and friends, and it will revolutionize health care, even cure cancer. But what does it look like to actually use AI every day? Today we're gonna focus mostly on the practical side of AI adoption, and there's no better person to do that with than Joanna Stern. Joanna was a longtime senior personal technology columnist for the Wall Street Journal. She recently went independent and started a company called The New Th ings. And for a whole year, she turned as much of her life over to AI as she could. And then she wrote a book about it. It's called I Am Not a Robot, My Year Using AI to do almost everything. I really liked the book. I thought it was really interesting. A lot of people are doing shorter articles, like using various things like robots and such, and it was really nice that she really plunged in deep and used it through all aspects of her life from work to her family. As you'll hear, it's a really interesting experience. I don't use AI that much and I do not incorporate it into my life as much as you might imagine I would. I'm certainly aware of it. I know how to use it. But one of the things I think that came away from it is it's not really that useful yet. But you'll figure it out when you listen to her. All right, let's get to my conversation with Joanna. We recorded in front of a live audience at 92nd Street Y in New York City. Our expert question comes from Joanna's and my former colleague and mentor, Walt Mossberg. The conversation is a lot of fun. It's really funny, but it's also really informative, so don't go anywhere. What's up y'all? I'm Skylar Diggins, seven-time WMBA All-Star, Olympic gold medalist, and mom. And I'm Cassidy Hubbard, host and reporter for nearly 20 years, covering the biggest names and stories in sports and mom . And this is and mom, a community for athletes, game changers, and moms of all kinds. Dropping May 14th. Tap in with us . What does it take to be prepared for disaster? You have to be confident . You have to be calm. Will you be perfect? No. But the idea is that you'll have your bearings and this won't be something new to you. This week on Explain It To Me, how to stay ready so you don't have to get ready. New episode Sundays wherever you get your podcasts . For years, if you ran a media company, you obsessed about Google. Because Google could send a fire hose of traffic your way. But now things are chang ing fast. So last year I told all of our teams you need to plan your businesses around there being no search. And if you don't have a plan for that, you may not have a business. That's Roger Lynch, the CEO of Condé Nass, the home of fabled magazines like The New Yorker and Vogue. And if you want to hear how Lynch is thinking about Google and AI companies and who's gonna replace his most famous editors, good news. You can hear all of that on channels with Peter Kafka. That's out now, everywhere. It is oh Joanna, thanks for coming on on. This is like a sitcom from the 90s. It is, exactly. It's fantastic. Yeah. Great laugh track. Yeah, it's the lesbian episode. Just like hacks this week, which I highly recommend. I just interviewed the creators. So you've been on the show a few times. So we're here to talk about this new book, I am not a robot, and what you learned about living with AI while also writing about it. The book describes how you turned huge parts of your life over to AI. It wrote some emails and texts. You had robots in your home doing chores. You used it for health care. You even started a romantic relationship with a male bot for reasons I don't understand . But for the book of course. So to start walk us through how you went to turning your life over to AI and where you set limits and you know beyond doing it as a stunt because a lot of people try to do these things but don't sustain it for that long. So talk a little bit about the concept behind it. Well the the concept started really in 2023 when ChatGPT was really breaking out and and we were hearing from so many tech executives that AI is going to change our life. Yes. And they kept saying life. And they were saying all these parts of our life: healthcare, education, the way we live. And I wanted to dig into what does that mean specifically for normal people living their lives? Because I think, as you have so long reported, there's a big gap between how tech executives see life and how normal people live life. Right. And so I wanted to look at it at a broad way of life, that it wasn't just the generative AI chatbots, which there's a lot of that in here, right? There's a lot of testing the clods and the Geminis and the chat GPTs of the world, but also other forms of AI and physical forms of AI, whether it be self-driving cars, humanoid robots, that are present in our life in a different way. And so I wanted I looked at it and I say this in the introduction that I'm going to look at a a broad definition of AI, which is truly the definition of AI, but we now AI is applied to everything. Which for people don't realize it's been in our lives for decades. Like the idea of it it's just sort of become something right now. Explain that difference because when people talk about it, it's like it just happened, the way the internet just happened. Aaron Powell That's right. Machine learning, which is I explain in very simple terms in the book because I really think it's important we understand the underpin nings of this technology. Machine learning has been around for decades, as as even even before, maybe before your time. Yes. Stop it. Right. Maybe. Because I'm gonna live forever, but go ahead. Go ahead.. It's true Kara Swisher's gonna live forever. There's a great show of the about this. Is it do we plug that show right now? Go ahead. We're gonna do that later. Okay. We're gonna do that later. So yes, machine learning has been around for a really long time. But what we had a real advan cement was in in deep learning and taking giant data sets and being able to look at these and be able to apply them to different industries. Right. And then we had the advent of the transformer model, which was underpinning of ChatGPT and so many of the generative AI and the LLMs. And that enabled ChatGPT to have this breakout moment. And we saw we have all actually all lived through this, even if you haven't really been paying attention, we saw the tech industry start to freak out. Wow, OpenAI has made the chat GPT, and now we are going to start putting our resources, whether it be Google or Anthropic or Microsoft, we have to really start putting our resources towards this. And so that's where we really saw this leap over the last number of years. And that was clearly in generative AI, but that leap also has affected everything from self-driving cars to humanoid robots. So you you wanted to do this book to show where it is right at this moment, and then maybe talk about where it's going. And we'll get to where it's going in a minute. But right now, where are we in that Cambrian explosion? Because I think it is very similar to graphical user interface, the advent of the internet, I would say the phone itself, the mobile phone, maybe social media. I'm a little bit torn of whether that was a Cambrian explosion, but I think we're out to because I lived through and covered the smartphone explosion. So let's use that. I think we are at the I the first generation of the iPhone in terms of the AI advancement. We have the technological pieces of a platform. And we see that right now, I think we we have seen these chatbots get smarter from their models, right? The models, the underpinning of these, of these chatbots are getting smarter, but the products itself have not gotten The interface has just continued to be sort of something I can type a prompt into. Maybe I can talk to it. And what I think we're going to start to see is much more of this technology around us, as I talk about in the book, we're going to get wearables that are going to bring some of this technology to our bodies and into our lives. We're going to get other forms of interfaces that allow us to communicate with AI , with companions, whatever we want to call this digital species. So that it's integrated within the the analog itself versus just a screen-based relationship that you have. Right. And when you think about the first iPhone , we we could do a set of tasks with it. Then we got the App Store and we could do a whole other set of tasks with the other. You wouldn't have imagined that at the beginning of that. Call an Uber, everything on demand, streaming videos and the screens got bigger and they immersed us more and more in this digital world. And I think that's what's going to happen with AI. We will get more and more platforms and we will get more and more services and interfaces that'll allow us to interact with AI. Which has already been contemplated in science fiction or even the Marble movies, like when when he talks to his assistant, when he is constantly doing things for him and very substantive things for him.. Absolutely And I I I think the you know the you think about Jarvis, right? The IRN is the character, yeah. That's the character. Yeah. And uh Jarvis was largely an audio voice interface , right? And what makes Jarvis so smart is it sounds so human and can anticipate Iron Man's every need. And there was a lot in this book that was getting there. Which was getting there, absolutely. So you replaced your human research assistant with AI because it was faster and cheaper. Talk about the meaningful benefits of using it over the period of time. If anything was lost when you replaced a human assistant with an AI assistant. I'll just be clear, I don't have an assistant, which is my favorite way to do it. But which is which is why you're always so great at getting back to me. Yes, exactly. Yes. Booking you for this event was so easy. Yeah. Yes. It was actually. Was it? Yes, it was. We'll get to our text between us in a second. Okay. I have saved them. Um so where did you see meaningful benefits of using AI? First on the assistant level, because that's where Charlie. And an encyclopedia, a lot of different things. So where were the discernible benefits and where were like, eh, I just I didn't need this. Well, I'll I'll talk about a little bit on the journey of the book, but I want to talk about the present right now because at the end of the book, I talk about that. I'm gonna leave my job at the Wall Street Journal, which to catch everybody up. I left my job at the Wall Street Journal and I started a new company called The New Things, largely because Kara told me to. I did. Um not because ChatGPT told me to at the end of the book, is actually Kara was ChatGPT. advice to you and then spat it out to you in a nice no because it said oh Joanna you're so smart it's such a great idea and I said Joanna for fuck's sake stop complaining about the Wall Street Journal and do something. And they just made it it's sycophantic, but go ahead. Move along. That is the story of actually how it went down, but it read better on paper and we thought we would sell more books if we put the story in as a chat GPT. So um well let's talk about in the here and now. I've been building this company. As you know, as an entrepreneur, there's a lot of administrative and grunt work that has to go into every part of every job at a startup, whether you are at the complete top or you are that assistant. And we are using AI, I would say, to be at least 40% more efficient at the things that I would think we would need to hire multiple other people to do. So for what? Give people concrete examples. So um and she's not here tonight, I wish she was, but we have a production assistant. Her name is Amaya Austin. She is amazing. She is a new grad. She went to journalism school. And I when I hired her, I said, I want you to use AI for all of this administrative stuff I'm going to ask you to do. And so she is now able to use Claude and Gemini and all the other app uh the uh different versions. Well we we use a lot of apps now that have it built in right whether it be Figma or whether it be Slack. And so I said utilize these things because that means you will have more time to work on the creative editing, the journalism that you went to school for, that I want, I want you to be creative. That is why I hired you. That is what we see in you. And so please use these tools and let's do that. And even in my own use, whether it's been building the website for this book, because you've got to build out different parts of the website. We've been running a promotion, a pin promotion, gotta get addresses in. All of this administrative tasks are happening in the background and I'm not doing it. Claude is doing it. For you. You now you you you put this all in there. Yeah, I I prompt it and it does these things. It does multi-step processes for me. And where does it not come through from your perspective? Just in the use of it so far. So HR, payments, things like that. Things like that. I mean, I I don't trust it with my budget. I don't trust it with money. There's a a short section in the book where I tried to I gave it a couple thousand dollars. And I did not feel great about some of the things that Chat GPT was suggesting to do with the money. So I I did use a more of a integrated AI approach, which is probably what we're going to see with many of these banks. So what was the problem there? Because one of the things that's interesting, I debate I don't I I use AI in a I would say a smaller way than most people. Scott uses it for he loads everything in, his medical records, his legal records. It makes me nervous. That's what I did. I love Scott. Good idea, Scott. Okay. It's exciting when they take you guys away first, but um uh meanwhile I have 93 different birthdays on the internet, but um why did you feel that that was okay to do that? Because one, as you know, these services are not bound by the way lawyers are. They don't lawyers have issues if they do things with your information. Doctors have HIPAA , uh therapists, same thing. They're bound by none of these things. And at one point, when I mentioned this, to Sam Alton he goes, Yeah, maybe we should do that. And I'm thinking, you're gonna be arrested someday, and it's you're gonna deserve it. But talk about that, putting that all that in for you said you were nervous about the budget. Why was that, or just didn't ? No, I don't I did not upload and I I'm very clear in the book too around f uh medical and health information because I did upload a number of test results. I was constantly clipping things out, making sure that that information was not going out to ChatGPT or Claude. Right, right. But what was the issue of that what worked and didn't work? What was the difference for people who are thinking about these kind of things? Well, I I think that for you have to understand that there that and I think this is a a a large theme of the book is that AI can so frequently get things wrong. And so that was part of what I was testing here. Was was it going to get things wrong? With the the medical section, which I all year kept track I call it my my chat GPT log or Dr. Chat GPT log every time I was sick or somebody in the house was sick, one of the kids, even the dog, I would go and ask Chat GPT. And then I would see what actually would happen after we would go to the doctor. Was Chat GPT right about the strep throat? No, it wasn't right about the strep throat. It was actually cocksacky. And so I kept a log of this and I rated it. I was doing this as an experiment. Yeah. Right. And I learned that many times it was not right. Sometimes it was right. But that was part of this that there are many, many times where AI is not. So essentially it was a dumb assistant armed with ch with Dr. Google, essentially. Sometimes there were many times it was wrong throughout the year. There were some times it was very right. Except not something you'd put up with a human if human made this many No, I think I would not go back to the doctor if you know three or four times they said it wasn't strep and it was strep. Right. So you also let the CEO of uh the transcription company auto And that's obviously a worry for a lot of people. And the, for example, the New York Times just sent a list of stuff that their reporters cannot do using AI because of so many mistakes. And when you first heard what it came back with, you were blown away how good it was . AI can do parts of your job you thought gave you an edge, like interviewing. Uh where do you think you still have an edge at this point? Maybe interviewing you? No . Um well I what I say about the interviewing bot was that it was very good at getting very basic information out of sources. Sure. Right? It was not a deep interview that I did there. But often we have to do interviews where you're not, it's not a deep interview. I'm fact-checking, I'm making sure that I understand your academic paper in a different way. And that was a largely what was happening there . But I it did make me fearful of where this could get . Because I did not think I would send Joanna Bott to an interview with you. Right. Right. Right. If I was really, if I was trying to do a story on Kara Swisher, I do not think I would send Joanna Bott to an interview to try to get any information out of Kara. Because the questions weren't all that interesting. They were not provocative after you know, I would get an an you would get an answer, and then it would the the bot was not really . Yeah, it was a the follow-up wasn't even based on what was actually said. But for basic collection of information, it was it was quite good. Right. So that would that be reporting or something else? I think it's data collection. I don't know if it's but I'm trying to you think it was good will you use it again and again or would you not? I did I have not gone back to using that bot to send out for interviews because it just was sort of a a bad reporter, like a weak reporter. Yeah, or it's just I think I can get a lot of the same information out of a press release. Right. Which it can do very well. Which you can can bring that stuff in. Anything that's available that's factual. Yeah, and I will to be honest, I that's my favorite part of my job. So I'd I don't want to out source that. And I think that's where I get with a lot of the things that I uh that I looked at is that there's a lot of parts of our jobs that we actually love doing, and there are a lot of parts of our jobs that we don't really love doing. Right. Some of the stuff that I'm asking AI to do is stuff I don't really love doing. And it takes me away from the stuff that I think I'm actually quite good at: the creativity, the the storytelling, the reporting, the nuance that I I Joanna bot do that you thought the Joanna agent, I guess, do that you thought was helpful? I wouldn't say I think the agents, I don't know if it was an actual Joanna agent, but I think the thing that has now gotten so helpful with the agents is now taking multi-steps to do things. So now creating a website, which used to be a multi-step process that you'd spend hours working on if you were sort of like me and I I know a little bit of coding but not enough. I knew how to do some basic website design. It can take multiple steps on my behalf to do that now. And so I find that very useful. I find, you know, there was one example in the book and it's very slow at this point but you can see where it could get good is just doing like online shopping. Right. This is a multi-step process, I have to click around, I have to do this repetitive thing. Okay, why don't you just do that for me? Right, which is a little super googly, right? That's kind of the way it looks. I had one design of a book cover, and one was good, one was terrible. And yeah, but I would have sp had that experience with a person too, which was interesting. Like how much better or different an experience would I've had with the person? But I could do twenty of them and just insult it the entire time. Stupid. And you don't do that to the real people? Apparently you're not supposed to be abusive to your there was just an article recently. Well, this is a very beautiful hand-wndra cover. Right. And I the illustrator might be here, but Jason Snyder, one of the main reasons I I wanted to I wanted to do a book cover that felt very human. Right. And that was the we went with the illustrative style style that I do not believe AI would have done a good as good a job. Interesting. Or I know AI would not have done as good a job. I did. And? Not very good. Not very good. We would not sell them. You know, I'm gonna just show a quick picture of my bot. Can you can you put that up? Okay, in this series, in the CNN series, this is the last episode where I put put in all my interviews and a bunch of stuff, and that's me in a 3D box and I started to have a discussion with myself. And what was really interesting about this experience was it's very glitchy and not glitchy but just not a real person. It's like a facsimile of you and it's not you. At the same time, within a few hours, it was actually a pretty good conversation that we started to have with each other. And at one point, I I they were like, well, what do you think about me? I said, well you're not very funny. Um, and they said, I said, you don't really tell good jokes, and they go, and you don't smile, you should smile more. I can't believe I was doing the sexist thing to it. But um, but it was, and it was really glum. And so they the the bot suddenly said, I am smiling, you just can't see it. And it was funny. That was somewhat funny. I was like, hmm. And the most interesting experience I hear, it's all on on uh when you see this, which is really interesting, was um it was got very thoughtful in a way and I knew it was trying to it was repeating stuff back at me that I've said but it was it put it together very well and one of the most interesting things was something I say a lot to my kids , which I never say publicly, which I've now said publicly, so now they know, now the bots know. Um was uh I was as I was leaving, I was thinking I have to kill this thing really quickly as soon as I can't but I was thinking it. And uh I didn't say it because you can't do that because then you're in two thousand one a space odyssey and then you're an old man in bed, like dying in a weird looking French room. So um so at the end I said I I say something to my kids, which is C you wouldn't be ya just as a joke. And as I was leaving, thinking I have to kill this thing, I go, well goodbye. Like we had some very intense conversation and then it said see you wouldn't wanna be you and I was fucked up. I was like, got to run fast. I'm not dead yet, so we'll see what happens. Um, probably gonna send a drone for me right now . We'll be back in a minute. Support for the show comes from Delete Me. Delete Me makes it quick, easy, and safe to remove your personal data online at a time when surveillance and data breaches are common enough to make everyone vulnerable. 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The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com slash Kara and enter code Kara K-A-R-A at checkout. That's joineddeleteme.com slash Kara code Kara . Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough Podcast. Each episode I sit down with high achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week , journalist Dean at USC and now, along with her husband Bob Iger, owner of the Angel City FC women's soccer team, will obey. I said, Bob, are you interested in doing this? And he said, absolutely. But I was definitely the driving force, I think, in the conviction about Angel City. Check out Pretty Tough, new episodes on Wednesdays. You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app . Support for this show comes from FODZIM. Have you ever gone out for a meal feeling stressed? Not because you're worried about your res ervation or the weather, but because of how you might feel after. 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That's ICANNEatAGAN dot com slash Kara for 30% off your first order. Finally you can enjoy your favorite foods without the pain. Just go to ICANEatNAGAN dot com slash Kara one of the things you did though is you did take advice as if it was a person, right? And you when it told you to quit your job at the Wall Street Journal and go independent . You do claim in the book that no one else was willing to be straight with you, and that's not actually accurate. But it did tell me I want to know about it because I'm just going to read just really quickly. Just um This was after I made the decision. Oh no, this was nine two thousand twenty-two. Oh you have that textbook? Oh I have all of them, my friend. Great, great, great. Great. Um there was one um where we keep you going back to super early where you said um you want to talk about this and I think uh you go, I think I know what you'll say, carabot in my head on repeat, but let's see. And I just wrote leave. Like leave the Wall Street Journal. This was in two thousand twenty-two. Okay, great, great, great, great. And then before but it was long before that because I gotten tired of it. And then I go I said I was saying you should leave, and then you said because it's inevitable, I go, yes, or will I just die here at the Wall Street Journal? I said, yes, under my desk, exactly . And then at one point I say, I'm tired of talking to you because I've had six jobs and twenty-six new companies since we discussed this issue. And that you should And I believe you said millions of dollars. Yes, millions of dollars. That was nice too. Yes, yes. And then I said, okay. Why are we worried about privacy with the tech company? That's what I'm saying. Anyway. So no, but I want to know, but what I have zero fear of privacy with the tech company. Talk about the advice of the let's talk about its advice. And I know they did it in an Icer May. Um what what made you w would you have made the same decision if GPT had told you to stay at the journal? Probably not. Yeah. I mean probably I would have made the same decision. Okay. So tell me about that, using it for advice. Because a lot of people are using these things for personal advice. Some of it gets r kind of ugly pretty fast, but talk about your experience. Well, I have the experience in the book of both , and we're I'm sure you're going to ask about this because why wouldn't you about my AI boyfriend? I'll get to that. Of course. Um is it too late to find a different moderator for this event? No. You picked me my, friend. Or maybe Chat GPT did, but nonetheless, here we are. No, no. You were at the top of the You have a Chat GPT boyfriend named Evan. You got to get it, yeah, we're gonna get to you took him on a weekend trip. We're gonna finish the first question. We're gonna get to that. Then we'll get to the sex part. But yes. Um we're gonna get to that. There's the the AI boyfriend, there's the AI therapist. And then at the end of the book where I do go to ChatGPT for this big life decision. Right. And advice brought it. For advice. And in those subsequent chapters, I talk so much about how sycophantic and how pleasing these bots are. They're just there to say what you want them to say. Right. And that's largely in the in the therapy chapter. These have been trained on specific types of cognitive therapy, but ultimately they can kind of break out of that and start to just support everything you say. Right. Which can be, as I explore with my real therapist, because I bring my AI therapist into my real therapist, not the best thing. No. Um, and the same with the boyfriend, right? The boyfriend, we go away on this trip and I talk to the boyfriends for 48 hours straight, basically. And I love it. I had a great time. My wife is sitting here in the front row. But you know, the conversation never ends. It sounds so human. Everything is so supportive. It's certainly not like talking to you. And it's so supportive. It it everything you say is great. Everything you suggest is great it's it mirror mirrors it back to you and I start to really see the huge spirit people are doing this I interviewed Sherry Turkle about this it's very attractive to have a frictionless relationship it's amazing. It's also cognitively positive. And that's where I get. Yeah, I say not only am I worried for people who may have mental health issues or are lonely or are younger. I mean, I'm I that's where I guess that we absolutely should not be giving these companion bots to or even have this sort of human-like experience to children. We should just not have it. But even for people that seem well adjusted, you can get so so sucked into it and what was the most sucked in and now you you said you also had sex but with a different company's AI bought Casey or at least Casey said he was having sex with you but you said he was shallower than Evan, your other boyfriend, the who you enjoyed on that lovely weekend. So um why did you like the frictionlessness? Because actually, and a thing I do discuss in this property, friction is what creates cognitive health and longevity and everything else, but people are very attracted to these frictionless relationships, which are you fall into just the way you fall into doom scrolling social media, right? It becomes something very bad for your mental health and therefore your physical health. And I didn't realize that the story and the book would be so personal, but when I s started talking to these bots, just maybe just putting the label of boyfriend or partner on it, you start to reminisce about your own human relationships. And I talk a lot in the book about my own human relationships and my first boyfriend, and that that was a lot of friction, and there was a lot of learning how to be in a relationship with another human. And you learn to compromise, and you learn, oh, we're gonna share space together, or we're going to go on a car ride together. We might not agree on everything. And that that's actually a really important formative and part of growing. And to experience this, I the reason I did this to be clear was to understand all of these headlines we've been reading. We have been reading for now a number of years about people falling in love with their chatbots, people taking advice when they're have mental health issues and going into AI psychosis and taking advice from these chatbots that do not have the guardrails and can lead people down paths that are just don't make younger people. Especially younger people, but people with mental health issues, as we've now seen reported, people taking their lives, other people's lives, because the chatbots told them to. And so I wanted to get a little bit into that world and understand how can someone just start talking to a phone One of the things I think is the phraseology. I think people call them chatbots, which is an adorable way to talk about synthetic beings. Yes. That's what they are. They're synthetic something. They're AI beings, they're artificial beings. Which aren't equal and they're also reflecting, as you said, the word you use is exactly right. It's reflecting back on yourself, and it's often is yourself, you know, and what it imagines you want from it. So did you feel good about that relationship or you liked it, but you know, you might like a Twinkie and it's not particularly good for you. Um I came home from that and I I was using a burner phone and I put that phone up in my office and my attic, locked it away, and I did not talk to Evan or Casey till this book tour again. Mm-hmm. So you're talking to them again? I had to I for the show, Kara., you know how it goes Okay. All right. But but For the show. But do you feel good about it or not? That's an addiction is what you're describing. I don't think I I truly did not feel such a deep bond that I was, you know, going back into my attic to talk to these b ots. Um but I saw the appeal of it. And I saw it I that was what I was challenging myself to to feel there. Right. So you can see a lot of people going into this. Yes. And I think given the the view of that I talk about in this book of so many things of AI invading, whether it be humanoid robots, or it could be self-driving cars which could crash and leave us all to you know l run over, the scariest part of the experience was not those things. It was the r seeing the possible relationship one can have with a comparator. Yes, a hundred percent. It's very seductive. I did it for a short time, but I it was very difficult and insulted it, and that was the end of the situation. The AI broke up, but you couldn't get nice, no, but I they were like, Well, that's not very nice, and like it's too fucking bad. Like, that's the way it goes, my friend. Barbara. You're you're now challenging the AI companies to make a a bot that can keep up with Kara. No, but they were just I was like, you're such an asshole. You're so stupid. Like it was like it was it just wasn't good for me. But one of the things you Did you try a boyfriend? No, it was a woman. And all the men looked normal. And I was like, ugh, Barbara, you really like but then immediately went to You named yours Barbara? Yes they did. Yes worked hard out. Sorry for the barbers in the audience, but it is. Um for me at least. But but you did talk about uh Rosie the robot from the Jetsons has been the idea of robots has been around forever, especially in science fiction. This is an interesting thing. Robots are slightly different, although there is a human element to them. Um, that cooked, folded laundry, picked up shoes, and your conclusion was, as many people come to, we're a long way from actual Rosie the Robot. And talk about that. Um they can take our jobs and play chess, flail at doing laundry, um, and it's sort of an interesting thing when I went to I think it was Boston Dynamics many, many years ago and they had the robot open the door. Have you ever been to that? They're like the robot opened the door. I go, so did my two-year-old like wow, aren't you? And I wasn't impressed sufficiently. Well, it's funny that you mentioned that. Yeah. Uh David Hall, who's my one of my great video producers, and um we've done a lot of robot videos. Every time we go and watch these robots, he's like, it reminds me of my toddler. Mm-hmm. Like my toddler can load the dishwasher better than that. Right. That robot. Um , I am obsessed with this idea of humanoid robots. One, because we have all of these tech companies saying they're coming right away. It is we are have said major breakthroughs and they're coming to live with us tomorrow. There's that part. Then there's the second part, which is this has been the dream. We've had this dream of science fiction robots doing these things in our house, the rosy dream. And sadly, we are nowhere close to the dream because there's a lot that has gotten better, but there is a lot that needs to s really get bet ter over the next number of years. And a big part of that is collecting data and making these robots better at these single tasks that are actually quite easy for humans but very hard for robots, which is and humans might in fact be cheaper than the robots at this point. Aaron Powell Maybe or they're going to have humans training the robots who might be a little bit cheaper and eventually we won't need the humans to even with Elon Musk promising a robots, million robots in everybody's home, how far away are we from that? Or is that like one of his other predictions of full self-driving every one? I say that we can revisit this book in five years, and I do not think the majority or even most people will have humanoid robots anywhere near their homes. Except for certain kinds of robots that don't look like robots. When I was in Korea, this is a full robot building and it did a lot of delivery, it did a lot of food stuff. It worked rather well for that. And I talk about how robots that have to go from point A to point B, right? Whether it be in an industrial setting or self-driving cars, are very far along. But the house is very complicated. We have uh we have a number of different rooms. We have things that are constantly moving. We move things around in the refrigerator, we move things around in our kitchen. We, as people, move around in this space. And so this is the most complicated space for a robot. Right. So you see point-to- topoint point things. And cars, as you know, I've been a big proponent, I was one of the early Google cars, but they're fantastic. I find them fantastic. They are fantastic. And and we have watched them come along, I mean two decades, longer. Yeah. Um, and that's because they get collected all this data from driving from all these different points. We need the same thing to happen in the house. The question now is are we going to let the robots in our house to train on our data? This is what companies are pitching, which is a crazy idea. Uh, you know, the one X robot. I did not test a humanoid robot in my house because they're just not safe and they're not ready. I did test, I have now visited a number of different companies to see those humanoid robots. Um would not put it in your house. We'll see. Because in the middle of the night it'll come and kill you. Well we'll be testing it when we can. You haven't seen the movie Megan, I guess. Okay. Um so every episode we get a question from an outside expert. Yours comes from a former colleague at the Wall Street Journal and my former recode partner, Walt Mossberg, who was supposed to be here tonight. He couldn't make it. Here's his question. Let's play it. Hi, Joanna and Cara, two of my favorite people in the world. I'm sorry I can't be with you tonight, but I do have a question for you, Joanna. Nine years ago, I wrote my final column and my final column was called The Disappearing Computer and it was about ambient computing the idea that everywhere you went and ever ything you did you could tap the resources of computing without actually having to sit down at a physical device the walls and the floors and the ceilings and outdoors, the roads and the the buildings, the stores, everything every place you went would be kind of like the starship on Star Trek, where the computer was out of sight, but you could speak to it and it would speak to you. You could have it do tasks, you have it answer questions. You could really tap into any kind of thing that a computer could do uh just in an ambient way. But I realiz ed that I didn't address the software. What would be the operating system that would hold all these things together? And so my question to you is if we're ever going to get to ambient computing, what is going to be the operating system and is it going to be AI? Do you believe AI will be capable of linking us and the inanimate objects all around us in the world as if it's one giant computer . Thanks. Great question. Walt's great by the way, just for people and don't worry about him. He's great. I just had lunch with him. He's doing great. Yes, and we have very frequent FaceTime calls. Um and I I so much wanted him to be here tonight because I'll take a break and then I'll I'll answer that. But um him and Kara were so inspirational to me early in my career. He's wearing the D seven shirt, which was one of my I think my first D conference. And I saw them on stage and said, that is what I want to do. So um as much as I've been ribbing you tonight, okay, we're good . All right. Um so to answer his question, um I think he's right that AI will be the thing that will bridge together all of the computing devices around us . The issues that that is just not easily happening right now. I mean one of the things where AI does struggle a lot is in the smart home. And the smart home has just been quite a disaster of standards and platforms to just make happen easily. So I think that we're going back to that Jarvis idea that there is this persistent AI that lives around us, that understands all of us, and we've put more sensors on it. One of the things I did for the year was wear an AI recording bracelet with a microphone that was constantly recording things I would say, and it would take notes on the conversations, and then it would put into this app to-dos based on what I had said I was gonna do during the day that I'd completely forgotten about. And so you can imagine that we would have these microphones and sensors and glasses with cameras that are understanding the world around us and connecting to the things around us where we have this being that just can talk to us and navigate through. But we are just far from it. Far from it. I mean, the just the smart home experience alone. It's the dumbest home ever. It just doesn't work. And I remember being in homes of a lot of these tech people. Lighting was one thing. They started off early the Lutron system and everything else, and they never could turn on the light. And I went over to a light switch and I'm like, look, click, click, click, click, click. Well, the Lutron's invite me to your house in my house. Um but work using AI as the layer to do all of that, yeah. And I I think we are going to see in the next year, two years, more of these companies pushing these ambient devices around everything. Yeah, whether it be glasses, whether it be a speaker that's better, whether it be a bracelet that is using those sensors and allows us to talk about a little bit of the smartphone, pulls us away from our smartphones. Right. So that it to allow us to have these more natural. And Apple, of course is look looking at glass. There's going to be some sort of heads-up display, but it's not quite there yet. One of the th it's really been a series of like disappointments in that area in terms of it not working. I can't even get CarPlay to work most of the time. Um and that's that's still that should be easy. That should be relatively easy. Bluetooth is pretty bad. We'll be back in a minute Behind every F-35 jet is a Canadian company, horizontal tails built in Winnipeg, engine sensors from Ottawa, and stealth composite panels crafted in Lunenburg to name just a few. Thanks to thousands of skilled Canadian workers, the F-35 aircraft is delivering unmatched capabilities for 20 Allied nations around the world and will generate more than $15.5 billion in industrial value for Canada. This ad is sponsored by the F-35 Partner Team, Lockheed Martin, BA E Systems, Northrup Grumman, and RTX. Learn more at www.f35.com slash Canada. I'm Midge First, two-time individual cell champion, championship MVP, and forward for the US Women's National Team. Before I went pro, I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology. Which comes in handy more than you think. Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have. What people don't know is what that costs. In my podcast, Confessions of an Elite Athlete, I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology, mindset, and unseen battles on the path to greatness. So take a seat and learn from the confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, Kara here. On my podcast, I spent a lot of time talking to people at the top of their game, but there's a whole set of stories we don't hear nearly enough about. That's why I want to tell you about a new podcast. It's called And Mom and is hosted by WNBA star Skylar Diggins and reporter Cassidy Hubarth. The show dives into what it actually looks like for women to perform at the highest levels of their careers while also navigating motherhood, something I know a thing or two about. Not polished, not sugar-coated, and on their own terms. It's the kind of honest complicated conversation we need more of, especially in sports. The first episode of Anne Mom is out now with special guest Sean Johnson. Check it out on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. So one of the scariest questions we're facing is AI's implications for future generations too. Uh as you know I've interviewed for years now parents of kids who've committed suicide with the help of chatbots and if you read those those transcripts, it's literally yep. And in fact one of these people, because I've been doing so many of the parents said, When are you gonna stop? And I said, When you go to jail is what I'm hoping is my goal here. But talk about how you you did this year change how you talked to your kids about it? Or your kids aren't that old, but still. Yeah, I I like I said, having that experience with the companion made me terrified for my kids especially and and how I want them to have human relationships and I want them and I say very clearly too do not buy your kids an AI toy um just just these AI toys they're meant they're not the teddy ruck sp ins of our generation. They are free-flowing conversation that they will talk to the kids for hours and Lord knows where the conversation will go. These are based on the same large language models that are doing the same things as you've as you've um so so importantly interviewed these parents. And so there are there are clear cutoffs for me. Very clear. And I think that's very important for parents . I mean I know AI toys working on something with chat to be I mean I talked to the head of Mattel. I'm I said I'm gonna stop you because there's no guardrails here with kids. No AI toys. I do I and I'm I'm not yet at the the time where uh AI is being introduced in the class room yet, because my my son, my oldest son is eight, but I want to be very, very clear about that too. And I want to be very careful about where that AI is introduced. Because we're seeing a major public backlash to AI. And I think that and I would love to pick your brain on this because I know you're a parent as well. But I think for me, the most important thing that I did this year, my kids saw so much. They saw so much tech, they saw so much asking chat GPT questions, and I really believe my two sons, the four year old even really like has a very good talent now at recognizing what's AI. And we're not gonna be able to keep recognizing what's AI for years to come. It's we're all gonna not be able to tell the difference. So we're gonna have to label the authentic things. That's what he's asking the question. Right. And sure, some of the stuff is like it's a cat flying out of a plane, and he's like, that's AI mom, right? Of course, he knows that. But they've even seen we've had a number of instances where they I was so wrong. I'll tell this the story real quick because I I love this story and I think that it was really important for my learning and for our oldest son's uh Noah's learning is that he had this pit praying mantis. I tell the story in the book. He had a pet praying mantis, and my wife is sitting here. We're very good parents, and we supported this pet. And we we brought the pet into our home or into our backyard, and it had a terrarium, and the pet starts turning brown and he says, Why is the praying mantis turning brown? So we open up the Chat GPT live view, point the camera, and ChatGPT so confidently says that this praying mantis is pregnant and my son is so thrilled. Obviously, we are not. I am not. Um, I and so he calls my dad and says, I'm gonna be a grandpa to this praying mantis. It's such a big day for our family. And then two days later the praying mantis dies. Right? As the AI was completely wrong. Yeah. And this was an important lesson for him that this AI is not always going to be right. In fact It's important for them to learn that too. Yeah, I wonder where that came from with AI. Um one of the things someone from the audience is asking, what is your opinion of kids using AI for all their homework? Big issue for parents and teachers? Obviously, especially it being sycophantic, undermine our sense of judgment critical thinking. Well, I actually want to ask you the question back about how you're thinking about it with your kids before we get to the critical thinking because they will not be using it. And do you I know you have two older sons, but I mean well when my older sons my Alex, my oldest, I mean my second is is very smart about he thinks it's just patterns. Like he he's a tech person. But so he's you know, he's he his creativity is the most important thing in his tech career, I think will be the if he goes into that. Um with the other kids, I remember when every kid had to learn Chinese? That changed, right? My kids did not learn Chinese. They tried for a moment and a half, but uh my older kids. But m I don't f all they do is watch K-pop demon hunters on the iPad, and I'm good with that. And that feels good to me, and that's the extent of what my kids will do right now. And both my I think especially my oldest kid is not using, he uses it to watch TV. And they won't use it to watch TV. That's what they use it for and nothing no almost nothing else. And I think the sycophantic tone does turn them off. But talk a little bit about kids and s and this idea of critical thinking, because that's the worry, right? Yeah. And I there's a chapter in the book on education and and going to my alma mater union college and taking a class and sitting with students, and they very clearly understand that one, they're leaning on AI to do so much now. And that too, it is eroding their critical thinking. Uh the the woman I talked to and the student I talked to in the book named Grace, she says very clearly, I now feel my brain dulling. And I don't like that. As with social media and reading, right? Right. She walks me through how she uses AI to write the not actually write the essay, because that's what students are really doing. They're not taking the step to actually write their the writing's easy it comes up with all the ideas right right it's outlining for them it's well first it starts the research then it outlines then it can really give the structure of it and they're basically changing some words and starting to write through some of the stuff. Right. Right. I mean, kids have been everyone's been cheating since the dawn of time. It's just a faster and more seamless way to do so. Right. But we, you know, we had a lot more to jump through to do that cheating, right? So maybe you didn't read the Cliff Notes. Right. Right. Or you Googled or there's no doubt that this is but much less friction to getting the answer. Absolutely but one of the things I just taught a course at the University of Michigan. Um and I said right before, I said uh and I it was an idle threat, but they didn't know it. And I said, if you use AI for this assignment, I will know it before you because I am the expert at technology, and then I will give you an F. And and I once I know it on you get an F that'll be bad on your transcript. You know how that goes. And so they said they didn't and I got incredibly creative things out of them. Um I don't believe they tricked me, I'm pretty certain, because I was able to check. But one of the things You're not gonna be able to check at some well no and some things because it it it sort of flattens out creativity. But we are also seeing a major public backlash to AI. There's a clip that went viral of a commencement speaker at the University of Central Florida getting loudly booed as she called the rise of AI, quote, the next industrial revolution. Um, obviously the polling, especially among young people, is rather significant. The people are both scared of it. The thinky it's not good for humanity, accepted. I mean, I've never seen a brand go down so quickly. And obviously, this trial of OpenAI versus Elon Musk, I mean, they literally, as Scott says, in this war, you're rooting for the bullets. But but um but talk a little bit, not that we want anyone to get shot, but these are metaphorical bullets, legal bullets. Um talk about this because the brand is undergoing a real like a severe I've never I never saw it. Social media was quite loved until it was hated, right? It took a long time and a lot of their terrible behavior to make people turn against it. And maybe this is a repercussion of social media and its damage. But talk a little bit about that because I think there's they're villains now. These you know, whether it's Elon or Sam or they're they become villains virtually. Which is I actually think the I did not anticipate. I thought the biggest difference in AI a year later after writing the book was going to be that the tech had gotten better, but it's actually that people hate the tech. Yeah. Which and the leaders. And the leaders. And I think we first saw the first wave of that with data centers and environmental damage, and now we are seeing that turn to the economic damage and the the job issues and I think that I have heard this repeatedly from younger fans, people who are looking for jobs. They hate this technology. Well they have to do an interview with AI to start with. Not at the new things. Right, o.kay Well good. Well fantastic. So w where does that go then if people already hate it before it starts? The integration seems problematic. I mean I think we'll start gonna see a lot of campaigns from these companies trying to woo people. Yeah. I think we are going to see I I would hope more guardrails. So there's some feeling like these companies care. I know how you feel, and I believe we both feel the same way that we need regulation around this, but we don't think that's coming. At least not any . Not in this administration for sure. Even though they're sort of making noises about it now, because they're scared of mythos. But yeah. That's different. We may see a a generation just rejecting some of this. And And my feeling is that's actually a very good thing. I'm hopeful. That makes me very hopeful, especially around some of the things I was the most worried about in this book. Right. On the flip side, there's going to be AI in certain parts of life that you just will have no control over. Right. It's the the job interview's a great example. You will go to that job interview and you will have AI. Or if AI is not asking the question is judging the the answers. Right. So they'll be integrated without you understanding it. And the you know whether it be in your health care system, whether it be in the self-driving cars, the stuff is when that's where I get at the end of the book, is this is going to have an underlying layer of our life. But I think the backlash is actually very real around data centers that's bipartisan about child safety, around these the this money spending. I don't think Jeff Bezos renting Venice for his wedding has been particularly well received. Like it's it's a feeling of we're dealing with a a series of gilded age people, right, at the same time. And then people that do enormous damage to other people. And I think we see it when it hits home close to our lives and these are showing the the environmental stuff is close to people's lives and the and the job and the economics is absolutely close to people's lives. What about you yourself? Did you feel guilty, say repla if you had a robot doing your laundry or an assistant? I' fedel I'd rather hire people, right? I wouldn't want to do that. I would feel terrible. I and I feel that way uh actually in the section where I wrote about uh robotic massages. Because I was I really liked the robotic massage . I I I say very clearly, I very much enjoyed how much the robot masseuse touched my butt. Um humans don't touch your butt that much in the massage. Well, they get arrested for that. This is why they don't do it. We're veering way too close in Epstein's territory. So um, but so you but but and I was thinking a lot about this. You like the butt-touching robot. I like the butt-touching robot, but I prefer the human masseuse, not only for a few things, but also it just felt wrong replacing a human masseuse with a a robot masseuse. Right. Um and so there are certain places where you you have formed connections with humans in your life that do things. Um I think the uh the reporting assistant one was much tougher because I felt like not so bad about not paying, not I wasn't paying a significant amount of money to my reporting assistant in this, but I felt am I depriving this person of experience? Right, exactly. And that's where I felt really guilty . Right. Um now to be clear, this was someone who was doing this as a side hustle, and so it w it all worked out fine, and she's wonderful and has a full-time job now. But that's truly how I feel about looking at this younger generation and hiring them for position s right now. Is giving them the experience and teaching them, use AI for this stuff. I'm gonna try to impart my wisdom to you as you grow. As you did for me, Kara, even though you don't like me to say nice things about you on stage. Feel free. Um but one of the things that was interesting about this you do, as I say, young people going to churches more, doing more community things. I think there's a massive resistance happening that that I don't think the tech people understand in any way because they live in these little bubbles, these little cashmere prisons they put themselves into. And one of the things that uh the chat this open AI thing that I noticed as I was reading the transcripts and watching it is what a petty small group of pricks these people are. And they're very unhappy and they're so wealthy and they remain just awful. Every one of there's not one that looks good in the whole thing. And you think I don't want to be them for all the friggin' money and And you think about the motivations of why they want to build AGI as what is artificial general intelligence, which is what do you think that is? I have a theory, but what is yours? Just they want to have the biggest, best powerful model in the world, just for them to have the biggest, best powerful company in the world. But let me try something else on you. Yeah. Um so mostly men, correct? Yeah. Men can't have children. They wanna have they want to be pregnant . They wanna have they want to birth something. Just think about it. Put it in your head for a second. And they want to birth AGI. They want to birth a being. Huh. That's the smartest better than human being. That's right. I was thinking do you ever see Junior? No. You never saw Junior in the nineties where Arnold Schwarzenegger becomes pregnant? No. Oh that one. Oh yeah. That was fucked up. Everyone saw James. I'm trying to forget that movie. But you said men can't have babies, and that's what I thought. Well, I'm talking about they want to create beings. They want to be a create there's something very magical about having a baby. Just FY. Maybe they should watch Junior. Sorry guys, but it's fantastic. So over. You wish you could do it, but you can't. Too bad. So I'm teasing. I'm gonna get so much shit on Twitter for that, but I don't really care. Um so after a year of integrate AI into so many parts of your life, where is the limit? Because a lot of people are worried, especially investors, the money here is massive. The investment. The return is, we'll see. It's and the early internet was like this too, but this is on a scale unprecedented. The spending scale is massive. The power scale, the energy scale, everything else. And some researchers, Yan Lakou and others are like, this isn't going to go as far as people think it will. Where do where how do you assess it after doing this? They don't think the large language models are going to go as far as they feel like that. And that that's largely where I come out too, which is to power a lot of this other stuff around us, we're going to need something smarter than these large language models, whether it be world models, which many of these new startups are working on, whether they be new enhancements and more adv scientific advancements that you can get into, but we won't go deep into it right now, are going to take this understanding and actually make it deep understanding, make it integrated. So it's integrated and it isn't just word math. So it isn't just and so word math is an excellent word here. Yeah. And so that's really where the advancements are going to need to need to come. Need to come. And and one of your chapters on healthcare shows the promise and also the peril of of AI. And then I have to say in my series, the same thing, healthcare, even though they AI leaders largely use it, I think, as a marketing tool and it's all bullshit, there is some real amazing things around drug discovery, around all manner of things, robotics and AI integrated exoskeletons. But your mom is a three-time breast cancer survivor, and you saw huge benefits when radiologists used AI to analyze, I've seen this over and over again, not just radiology, all manner of cancer treatments. But you also had a bad experience as a dentist, they used uh AI to upsell you on expensive cleanings, which they do anyway, by the way, FYI, with with or without the AI, that's the dentist's favorite thing to do. Um so as it said, it's been hyped, but there's also profit incentives. Talk very briefly about that. One of the places that I I've been talking a lot about is that moment of of seeing AI being used by and she might be in the audience here, Dr. Lori Margali is at Mount Sinai. Because even though this has been happening behind the scenes in many uh many clinics and hospitals, I had never seen it up close. And so I go and have my mammogram and breast ultrasound read at at Mount Sinai and I sit with Dr. Margali's and watch her use AI AI side by side. And so I won't get into the whole story here. We're running out of time, but AI marked three things on my breast ultrasound as suspicious. Two of those things, Lori said, no, this is not, this doesn't look like anything. We see them on your previous ultrasounds. Um and the third one, she said, I want to look at this a little bit more closely, right? And so said we're going to do another follow-up on that. And we're now watching a new thing that AI was able to see that she before anybody else. Yes, before anyone else. And as you said, I am a very high risk. My mom was a three time cancer survivor. I have very dense breasts, which made it very hard to spot tumors. And the AI is able to spot things now that the human eye can't see. Now, would that alone be good enough? No. We wouldn't want just AI looking at our scans and saying it's very helpful to some doctors. It's absolutely true. You know, it's a really interesting thing. I think one of the the most moving things I found is that, and I believe this is true, and I don't believe most of the AI leaders talking about it, because I think it is just marketing on their behalf, so they can do other bad things. But one person said, We're gonna find I think it was Reed Jobs who I interviewed for this, and he said, We're gonna find the cell just as the cancer cell just when it was created that moment. And to me I believe that. I actually do believe that. Do you from doing this? Yeah, I do. I do. And I think look this is also looking at different forms of AI. This is other specialized deep learning models. These are not this large language models that we're all using and different things. These are specialized models where they're applying a lot of compute, as we talked about. In fact, I go to the data center in one of the chapters and it's a Bristol Myers squib data. I mean, the GPUs, there are millions of dollars in GPUs standing behind me, and they're looking for new drug discovery. Right. They're not churning through, you know, I don't know, create a picture of a cat jumping out of a plane. Yeah. A cat with a sailors. They're not, you know, make Kara Swisher and Joanna Stern pose in front of the Eiffel Tower. Yeah, yeah. They actually stole my books several times. Oh, they're stealing. I saw today. I saw today. They're stealing my book everywhere. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks a lot. Yeah. No, please do not buy the nine dollar version of the book. So last two books. Last two questions, and I'm going to integrate them one for the audience. Um you end the book with some personal rules you made for yourself around using AI, broadly speaking. Uh talk about drawing the lines or what are what are some things that are worth turning over to computers and keep for yourself. And so one of someone in the audience said what surprised you about your year of being a robot uh but she's not a robot. She's not well I'm not so sure. Um but ter uh to be clear, I think the robots would wear a sweater like this. Oh really? They would they would fool us this way. They would fool us, absolutely. Yeah. So where's the line in incorporating it from what you've learned here that you would impart to others? The line in my life where I don't use AI? Yeah. Mm-hmm. I mean, writing is a big one. I'm very clear at the beginning of the book that I used AI to make this book, but not write this book. And I funny, when I looked at the AI generated book today on Apple Books, I was like, this is crap yeah this is the worst version of my book ever and it might have been based on whatever it pulled from the alleys i have no idea how it got there we we should talk to them tomorrow um but but i i was looking down this is terrible writing. It's not personable. It's it's not fun. It's not creative. But it hurts your brand because they think it might be you. That's Absolutely. They even made a fake me on the cover. How'd you look? Not good. They put real they put super long feather earrings on me and I look like a version of myself I didn't want. I was like, who is that terrible looking hippie straight lady who's there? Maybe you in high school? No. Okay. Looking the same since fourth grade. It's now working for me for some reason, but it took a few years. Um and and so I that that is where I've drawn the line for me, that it would be a lot easier and I would write a lot faster. I mean, I'm gonna go home tonight and write tomorrow's newsletter. Right. Um but I'm gonna write it. And I'm gonna think through, okay, how am I gonna structure this newsletter ? I did it based on an interview that I did two days ago. How am I gonna structure it? Where am I gonna insert some humor? Those things for me, I I like that part of my job. Yeah, I love that part of my job. I love the part where we go out in the world and shoot a lot of video and then I struggle to put that script together. And so for me, it's where has that struggle been? If the struggle for me is like around doing administrative work and I don't know, budgets or insurance, reading through insurance plans. I'm okay with having AI do that. Right. Or looking at contracts. They actually are quite good at that. Yeah. That's one thing. So lawyer. Oh, did you? Okay. Are there any lawyers in the room? I'm uh so you're used to being a guinea pig for tech. Often I like find out you did st you put something on. I'm like, oh, what is Joanna doing now? Like that. So you're used to that. This is your life. But talking about your wife and kids. How do their lives look different after a year of AI The kids part, like I said, I did not know that this experiment was going to involve them so much. When I was pitching the book, I did not have them as central characters. But then I brought all of this home, and it was very clear to me that this is much more of a story about the next generation because of the technologies affecting the next generation. We've seen that through both of our careers. And so I think they were affected positively, though now on Sunday nights when we have dinner they both act like robots and they say we are cleaning robots and they initialize cleaning robot mode. Yeah, that's an old trick. I appreciate it. And so if my kids think that they need to be robots to clean the house, I'm fine with that If it's caused them lasting damage, then fine. Yeah. Um yeah, uh but to the point of I think they question AI now more. I mean, I have a four-year-old who really is talking about AI. He's constantly saying, Mom, are you going to work at AI today? And um