Hospitality Trends and Longevity

It's really hard to get me to come into a club and one of the famous ones was like we'd really like you to have you here. And I was like, I'd really like rather not to go. I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club. Hi everyone from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. This is on with Kara Swisher and I'm Kara Swisher. My guest today is Jeff Klein, a hotel owner, hospitality entrepreneur, and founder of the San Vicente Clubs. They're private members only clubs that have become popular with celebrities and many others in Los Angeles and New York . Klein was early to the now booming private club scene, and he's looking to expand his clubs globally. He has a knack for taking distressed historic properties and transforming them into chic distinctive spaces. I want to talk to Jeff because he has a real joy of entrepreneurship. entrepreneurs, but hospitality entrepreneurs are very interesting and they put together a lot of things and it right now there's a real moment where people really are valuing community and spaces and gatherings. And it's something I talk about in my CNN special, Kara Swisher Wants to Live Forever about social connections being really important. And I think Jeff has exquisite taste and sort of a joy of life that I think is a wonderful thing to have in an entrepreneur. And he makes beautiful things and he doesn't go too far with it. And I appreciate that as an entrepreneur. Our expert question today comes from another fantastic entrepreneur, Chip Conley, in the hospitality space. He's incredibly well known. And I was thrilled that he got to ask Jeff a question. So stick around. A quick note before we get to the interview, I'm doing a special live episode of On with Kara Swisher with guest Mark Maron on the opening night at the Drebeka Film Festival podcast stage. It's June 8th at 8 p.m. Tickets are available at tribecafilm.com/slash audio. So see you there . This is a Monday.com ad. The same Monday.com designed for every team. The same Monday.com with built-in AI, scaling your work from day one. The same monday.com with an easy and intuitive setup. Go to Monday.com and try it for free. Choice hotels get you more of what you value. Here's a little tune to help you remember. Same drive, different day. Don't you wish you were getting away? Pack your bags and come home through. Texas, Ohio, Alaska, we're up there too. Comfort in it's calling your name . Save on the stay. Oh, and free waffles are yours to claim. Well, I hope you like my little song. Bookdirect at Joyce Hilltales.com . What's up, y'all? I'm Skylar Diggins, seven-time WNBA All-Star, Olympic gold medalist, and mom. And I'm Cassidy Hubbard, host and reporter for nearly 20 years, covering the biggest names and stories in sports and mom . And this is and mom, a community for athletes, game changers, and moms of all kinds. Dropping May 14th. Happen with us . Jeff, thanks for coming on on. Thank you for having me. So you're nervous about coming on, and you called yourself the gay Larry David, which made me laugh. But you have nothing to worry about . I'm very interested in your business and where it's going, especially right now. So why don't you explain yourself what you do? You've built a successful business by seeing the potential that others miss. You've rehabilitated multiple distressed and neglected properties that weren't obvious candidates for luxury clubs or boutique hotels and imagine what they could become. I want you to talk about what you do and talk about your sort of overarching philosophy and what you look for when you're thinking about this right now. Aaron Powell Yeah, I mean it's an interesting question because I think people often don't they confuse what I'm selling. I mean I'm really I'm not selling dinner or drinks or a room. You know, those are really delivery systems and what I'm selling or trying to sell is b a belonging and a psychological safety kind of like trusted human interaction atmosphere, obviously, access to a certain emotional experience, I would say, and feeling a part of something that's curated and meaningful. People think we're selling luxury hospitality, but we're not. We're really selling human connection in an environment where people can actually relax and be themselves. Talk about exactly what you do so people can understand your business. Well, I started in the hotel business. I started as a Bellman right after college and um I worked for someone who b really taught me the hotel business from the ground up literally, became my mentor, same boss. And I went into the hotel business. So I've always been in hospitality my whole li fe. In about 2010, Soho House opened in Los Angeles, and they invited me to be in a founding member for free. And I said no, because I was like, that place will never survive Yeah, you were skeptical initially. Very skeptical and I I thought who would pay membership fees, you know, to to go to a place like this? And I couldn't have been more wrong. And what I noticed was that it was very powerful when it came to town. And I felt like I could do it better. I felt like I could create a better atmosphere with a better menu and better uh service and a better cur ation of the crowd. And that's when I found the first San Vicente Bungalos, which is a private membership club. And now there's three of them, two in Los Angeles and one in New York. Right. And you have also the hotel business. Right. Uh I'm a uh part owner in the Sunset Tower. I sold a piece of it. I have a partner in it. And I started in the hotel business. And the hotel business is what allowed me to go into the private membership business because essentially I applied all of that knowledge of how to create an experience for a customer and how to deliver food and beverage and whatnot. And the piece that I had to learn was the membership piece, which is not easy and I made a lot of mistakes. But I think you know, the reason I'm saying that is because what's harder is today you're seeing like a lot of people trying to go into the membership club business. Let's talk about this boom because there's a real private club boom now. Private members only clubs are on the rise in cities across the U.S. There's nothing new about them, especially in New York and London has like that's how people socialize. And they were a fixture in socialed life during the Gild Age. But now we're seeing private clubs in places like Jacksonville, Florida, Lexington, Kentucky. Talk about what's driving this wave. And as you noted, the Soho House is credited with helping spark the private club boom . It opened its first club in London in 1995 and has more than 46 locations at over 200,000 members. So talk a little bit about why the boom is happening here in this country and maybe compare it to somewhere like London Well, yeah, I mean I think, you know, clubs are booming because people are profoundly lonely and digitally exhausted. Technology has connected everyone, but emotionally it's disconnected people from each other. And a lot of institutions that used to create repeated human interaction weakened, like churches, town halls, civic groups, ev even offices after COVID. And so people are still, you know, people still fundamentally need tribes and ritual and familiarity and belonging. And clubs are filling part of that vacuum. The more digital life becomes, the more valuable physical human interaction becomes. I mean, there's just I notice it every day, and I feel kind of lucky. I always say I would rather be lucky than smart. You know, because we're really providing a sense of community and people are like, Oh well do you think there's too many clubs? Um and the good ones are gonna understand how to find their niche. Trying to be everything to everyone, I think, is where these clubs are getting into trouble. Trevor Burrus Right. Or or too expensive. There used to be, you know, various clubs around New York was everyone belonged to it. And again, in London, everyone has a club and has had it for hundreds of years, correct. There is a sort of a comfort. And it's not necessarily just for the rich, correct, not for the super rich, although this tends to be the demo you have. Look, I think today most social interaction is transactional and it's scheduled and it's online and I think people are willing to actually pay for this , which is why I don't think they're necessarily rich. You know, younger people are joining in droves, honest honestly, young younger generations grew up online. Ironically, that's made real life interaction feel more novel and valuable to them. I I believe it's what I'm noticing. There are these clubs for the rich, you know, which are super expensive. You know, there's golf clubs that are like a million dollars and there'ss other club that are super expensive. So I think people are willing to splurge on this because I think it's much more meaningful. I mean what I'm also noticing when I talk to some of our younger members, because uh I'm like, look, I wouldn't be able to afford this when I was, you know, 32. What they're saying is I'd I'd I'd rather spend this on like an expensive uh bag or because it's an experience and it's and as we know young people love experiences. And getting a piece of clothing or a special watch or even a car is not it's no longer important to them because it's so available. I mean, you can just go online. Even on Amazon, you can buy all these like ridiculous luxury goods. So I think they're they are spending money differently. And I I think I'm lucky in that clubs are the recipient of one of those things. Aaron Powell So when you talk about people have to find their niche, what do you mean by that? Because there could be too many copycats, right? As you were noting earlier. Aaron Powell Yeah. I mean, th there are copycats. I mean, look, I I can only talk about my niche, which is pretty specific. I mean, this is gonna sound like a little haughty, but I always well, my aspiration and when I like talk to the people that I work with is I want to be the airmez of clubs. I don't necessarily want to have the most clubs or the coolest clubs, but I do want to have the best ones and that means that they're very individual in each location. They're very specific to that location. They're part of the fabric of the community of that location. I don't want them to be hot where it's like, you know, w the Kardashians are there every night or whatever. It it it should feel like it's not a club. It's not a club. Yeah, it's like your second home almost. And I I think that it also comes down to the quality of the club members and we're really tough about that. Well your clubs are notoriously hard to get into. According to one estimate, there's roughly seven thousand person waitlist. You prioritize candidates who are engaging and you reject a lot of billionaires saying that quote, just because someone has money doesn't make them interesting. I know this, Jeff. Uh you know I know this. So talk about your criteria and give us a window into how you think about that then if you're trying to create not just experiences, but Scott was saying Scott belongs to nine hundred clubs essentially because he's desperate for something that he's never gonna get. A hole, an an empty hole that shall never be filled. Um but you you can you're laughing, but it's true. But but talk about crowd curation, what you mean by that, or what you're trying to do, and maybe compare it to others. Aaron Powell Yeah, I mean we're definitely not looking for the richest people. We're we're looking for people who make the environment better. And and it and it's really hilarious because people are always saying, oh my God, he's a billionaire, why don't you take them? And it's like, no, who cares if he's a bit- I mean no one is going to walk in and say, and and by the way, that you know, it just doesn't make them interesting . Uh it's just another, you know, Riggs White guy really at the end of the day. So I think what matters is curiosity matters, kindness matters, creativity matters, social intelligence matters, energy. We we want people that are additive to the atmosphere. The mistake people make is assuming exclusivity means wealth. Wealth alone is not very interesting. Uh and we're trying to create a chemistry in the room. And so I think that, you know, we're curating behavior and culture as much as demographics. It's hard to do. I mean, you know, there is a whole process and there's a committee and but I think that , you know, back to my Hermes analogy, that's part of the quality that we're trying to deliver. So unlike Hermes, where the product is maybe sticking in leather, for us, this is part of our product, and it's really we have to be really tough about it. Right. What does the committee do? Do you all meet and like start drinking or what happens? We don't do. Talk about the process in the committee. So there's an application. Well , the the greatest question on the application, I have to admit, I mean I I feel like I'm gonna ruin it. We're gonna need to find another one after everybody hears this. The best question is what's your favorite restaurant and why. And it says so much about a person. So we ask other more traditional questions, like please tell us who you are. And tell w we also have a great question where we say, you know, are you single? And if not, please tell us about you're the person who shows a picture. That also tells a lot about them. But the restaurant piece Yeah, I want to know why that. Yeah. Well, because if you get somebody that's like, I love club Saintq -Sin and Saint Tropez were kind of like that's not the right person for this club. You know, it and it kind of catches them off guard because Saint Sinc may be their favorite restaurant. Nothing against Saint Ant Sink, it's a great restaurant, it's just not my thing. Uh very expensive . Very expensive. And it's it's it's just not you know Yeah, I know. I've been there. I was trapped. I did not pay. I will only go if I do not pay. Yes, of course. No, it was actually during Con Lions. I don't remember who dragged me, but it was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like I like to see one of those I like seeing it. I like seeing it. It's like here. No, it's an anthropological anthropologically you have to go there. It's like um but it's not like where I'd want to go. I used to call it forced fun. Forced fun is how I felt about it. For yes, that's forced fun. It was like everyone was paying so much and therefore they had to have fun or else. So it was funny. Uh I will tell you my favorite restaurant, Anchor Bar in San Francisco in the Castro. Small tiny. See that's a great answer. That's great. It's authentic, it's special. You'd probably lean into why it's your favorite, which I'd like to hear. Well, it's small. You have to wait for it. It's got amazing food. It's always a lot of the same stuff, but it's always delicious seafood and oysters and cipino and I've taken my kids there their whole lives. My kids and I love going there and it's my happy place in San Francisco. One of my happy places in San Francisco. I see I love that's a great answer. I was gonna give another example, you know, some little restaurant in Iruguay that somebody took their grandmother and now she's no longer you know, like whatever it tells you a lot about a person when they answer that question. So so you're just trying to get an interesting person and it depends on what strikes you as interesting, right? It's not necessarily I'll take all the quirky people kind of thing. No, but we like quirky. Yes. I mean d and you know, I hate to use this word because it's being overused, but diversity is important. I don't just mean racial diversity, but like w we will not accept a man if we don't accept a woman. Like sexual diversity, I was so h excited when the first trans person applied. And we have a few trans people in all the clubs. But and then also occupational diversity. So like one of the things that happened in Los Angeles that we had to kind of slow down was there were just too many people in the entertainment industry uh applying. In New York, there were too many people from the banking industry applying. And age diversity. You know, some clubs focus on only young people. We I always say the best party is a wedding. Mm-hmm. And it has all three generations. Or the worst party. It's either the best part. Right. If it's a bad idea. But it's still good, then it's bad. Trying to create the greatest dinner party every day and every night. So that's how you think about it. Like, well, who are you going to invite to your wedding and who are you going to invite to that list? And I mean, look, the thing the the boundaries piece of it, which I think you were alluding to, like every meaningful community has boundaries. I mean universities do, churches do, neighborhoods do. The real question is whether the culture inside of those boundaries creates something valuable and and human which is what my job is to deliver. Right. Right. So privacy is a big part of your brand. You've said that it's the ultimate luxury today. And that seems like a direct reaction the way cameras on smartphones, social media anxiety, and influencer culture have changed nightlife and uh made it difficult for people to let loose in public. Uh not that they're gonna be embarrassed, but they just don't want to have it like a especially you have s a lot of you have some celebrities in Los Angeles, for example, same thing in New York. And you noted people are digitally exhausted. And from your perspective, talk about this, how social media has changed the hospitality industry . And would we be seeing this re-surgence of private clubs without it because I think there is a plus for that with people. You're the only place I let put a sticker on my phone, which I'm like happy to do it. And they when you get there for people and no, they just slap a friggin' sticker on your phone and you don't pick it up. You do not pick it up. Even when you want to just look something up, I don't even do that. Well, that's exactly what we're trying to do. I mean, the sticker is really just a reminder of this is the time to leave the d digital world behind . Uh we don't allow phone calls, we don't allow photos. I wish I could say no texting and Googling and everything. I don't because people are like, Well, my child, I need to know if my child at home, which I understand, or you know, I have an important thing happening at work, I might need to hear from my partner or whatever. But so I I think we're one of the the few places where it it is like like you know you're forced to talk to people and live and connect. Privacy changes human behavior. Uh the second people feel watched or filmed, they stop being themselves and start performing. And so , you know, conversation changes, vulnerability disappears, and spontaneity disappears, creativity drops. And that's for everyone, not just say a famous person who doesn't want to get it. That's for everyone. We created a place where people can really exhale. The product isn't secrecy. It's psychological safety. And I think that's also like what people don't understand. You know, modern life is like so performative. I mean, I don't look at Instagram that much, but it's like when I look on Instagram I'm like, why are they filming their avocado toast? Like I don't care about their avocado toast. People talk about it. That is delicious, but go ahead. I mean but what but talk about this idea of social media anxiety and it's sort of it's changed nightlife. Everybody has their phone up. You know, one of the things I used to do, I mean I kind of created a club at the code conference many years ago. We did. We had an it was exclusive yet not it was the people that got in were were not who you'd think necessarily, right? Sometimes we ding people who you'd imagine we let in. But one of the things I did is I created a as phones became more in the early days people weren't using them as much, but as it became clear, I had put together this amazing program, like gates and jobs, pay the fuck attention. Like so I put a jammer in the room. Walt and I put a jammer. Oh , jammed signals and everyone would be like, Oh, my phone doesn't work. I'm like, Really? Wow. Shitty service. But I actually jammed it on behalf of them because I knew they would look at their phones and rather I mean I was like, I spent a lot of time getting these two people up on stage. So you need to focus in on what they're saying kind of stuff. I love that. I should think of doing that. Jammers. I'll help you. I'll help you with the jammers. It's easy. It drives people crazy. They're like, oh it doesn't work. And then you go, oh Verizon. Oh they, suck . Yeah. So talk about that idea of what how it's changed nightlife, you know, especially in LA or New York or any of these cities. Well, I mean, I think absolutely. I mean, to your point about s celebrities, I mean th they feel it intensely because, you know, f fame follows them everywhere. And honestly, almost everyone feels some version of this now. Uh social media's turned life into performance and so people don't live anymore. And I think that these spaces you know, one of the things we're providing or trying to is like a space where they can live again and they don't have to be scared of a photo being taken of them. I mean I I joke like you know you want to be able to bring your wife one night and then your girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever the next night and nobody can talk about it. Nobody can take a photo. I mean there's no places like that. And I'm not saying it's right to have a boyfriend or a girlfriend if you have a wife or a judge on this show, but go ahead. But it's also like you know it also pertains to like business. And I'll just say this because it was written about extensively when Ted Sorrandos and Steven Spielberg were having this big war in Hollywood because Steven Spielberg was saying, you are not making movies because they're not on big screens, even if they're on big screen for a week. It was a very public war . And their makeup dinner, the were the first time they actually spoke, it was like in the Hollywood Reporter, it was in the New York Times. It was they went to dinner at the San Vicente as they should because they knew that nobody would take photos or talk about it. Unfortunately, there was a guest of a member who was a publicist who called page six and leaked it to them. And we figured this out and we kicked out the guest. But in of course, I'm giving an example where I didn't succeed because that's how I do, but you know , w th that was only one time that's happened. There's been like 10,000 other examples of so it's also business. Like you sometimes people don't want to be seen . And they want to go out. And they want to go out. So maybe, you know, they're about to sell their business to someone and they don't want people talking about everything so public now. And transactional as you said. And as you also note, it's not just a business thing, but there is the community aspect to it . And as you said, people don't go to church as much. And fraternal organizations, there used to be the Lions Club, the Elts Club, the Rotary Club, my grandfather belonged to I think all of those. They often built community around acts of service, but it was also social . Talk about the organizing principle of your community. People who can have different reasons for going to these clubs. The organizing principle to us is really human chemistry. It's like trying to create an environment of interesting socially additive people who value discretion and curiosity and creativity and connection. You know, the community is really organized around a shared desire for a certain kind of atmosphere that's less performative, more intimate, more thoughtful, more human. It's not organized around status or profession or any of that stuff. It's really organized around energy and behavior. And I think that's why we succeed and you know are desirable to to so many people. So how do you deal with the status obsession with people? Like I didn't get in here. I'm sure you get a lot of pushback. Like when people like will send me an email or a text, because it what's unfortunate is like knowing me doesn't necessarily help. Like I it it it has to be it's a committee of people and they do can they spend a lot of time on this so I don't I never want to be like that like dictator that overrules the committee's decisions. And I I always say it's really not you . It has more to do with like your age, your occupation, d all these things, because we have enough of these people that are in your category . And that's really how I answer that. We're curating that emotional tone as much as we're curating membership. Right. Um but but when you uh and the other thing I have with clubs is sometimes I get asked to join some of them. You've never asked me, which is great, which is fantastic. But a lot of people ask me and I'm like, no. And the same thing with rich team owners, they're like, come sit in my box. I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. And they're like, what? And I go, I don't like sports. And I don't want to sit. Well, it's a b owner's box. I'm like, I I like it even less. Like, I don't even know what you like, I don't mind sitting in a stand kind of thing. And so it's really hard to get me to come into a club. And one of the famous ones was like, we'd really like you to have you here. And I was like, I'd really like rather not to go. I'm going to the hardware store, which is my favorite club . Well, we would obviously love you to be a member, but I can't too. I feel like members have to want if somebody wants to be a member, they figure out how to apply. And you know, you have to know a member to be nominated. No, I get it. I just don't like clubs. I don't I never I'm just not a club. I never go. I I'm very you know a lot of so I'm like assuming No, I just I love going there. And by the way, it's a beautiful experience, I have to say. Even though you put stickers on my phone. Me, it's just I just m I I really en justjoy being home or going to the hardware store, but and that's where my happiness is. And that's where my community is. I know it sounds weird, but I do. I actually r go to one in my T V show. I go to my favorite one of my favorite hardware stores. But um but pa that's cut weird sounding when I say it out loud. So populism is on the rise in the world, and here in the United States, the wealth inequality is this widest gap, more than three decades. Talk to critics who say private clubs are a way for the rich to wall themselves off from the concerns uh reality of everyday people. Presumably they end up going to expensive restaurants in if they don't go there, right? That's the other option for people, or belong to country clubs or any number of things, you know, special vacation spots. So I'm not so sure it's that much of a like a ding on private clubs, but talk a little bit about this in this, you know, sort of day and age, a sort of eat the rich thing is happening all over the place and somewhat deservedly in some cases. Yeah, and I would say partially, yes, luxury clubs obviously require financial means, but I think the deeper desire they're responding to is universal. I I just can't tell you enough how much people want belonging, trust, intimacy, familiarity, and human connection. Wealth just allows you to execute those things at a very high level. So you know, there there could be clubs that are not as expensive that deliver the same thing. Part of what my experience is is an elevated experience. So it is gonna cost me money and then I have to charge money in return to deliver that. But like your hardware store example, if your hardware store wanted to charge $1 a month to come there and have a beer one day a week or something. that Like might be a club that's super cool because it it's a club of of of common interests. I mean that would be like what I was describing as a niche. My son goes, do you know this the the giant food here has a bar in it and my son loves the bar at the giant food. I love it. He goes, I don't know. I meet people I don't know and we all sit around and have a beer while people are walking by with strawberries and I don't know why I like it, but I do. And I'm like, okay. Where are you? Those at the giant bar. That was like giant food. Like it was but I see the appeal. Like if he likes the community aspect. Another my other son is going to church more. Like and I never took him to church once and he loves it. Of course that is absolutely free. But he loves the community, I think. And that's what they're especially I was just gonna say like churches are on the right. I mean, did you see that article? I think it was in the journal. My son is like that article. It's exactly right. It was really fascin ating to me and it m it made total sense to me and it it really r reminded me of my business because you know, and they're meeting boyfriends and girlfriends or whatever at church. They're not even religious. I mean, I always say, like you, know, we do all these programming events, we'll have like a ceramic painting class. And at first I would say, like, who wants to learn how to paint ceramics? No one is, I mean, they're not really going for the ceramic painting. They're going to meet other people, to m to meet friends, to you know, um, to meet new people, to know. I so I think, you know, just back to your thing about the wealthy, it's like historically priv,ate clubs were about status and and access, I think today they're more about emotional comfort and psychological self-safety . We'll be back in a minute . Support for this show comes from Quinn But instead of looking for mismatched items that just don't quite fit, lean into pieces that feel effortless, comfortable, and still put together. That's where Quince comes in. They have fabrics that feel elevated, fits that are flattering, everything just works without you having to overthink. Quince has all the wardrobe staples for spring, think 100% European linen shorts and shirts from thirty-four dollars, lightweight, breathable and comfortable, but still look put together. And clean one hundred percent Pima cotton tees with a softness that has to be felt. Everything is priced fifty to eighty percent less than what you'd find at similar brands . 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Plan your Scottish escape today at expedia.com slash visit scotland. Suffering from dry, tired, irritated eyes? Don't let dry eyes win . Use sustain pro. It hydrates, restores, and protects dry eyes for up to twelve hours. Sustain Pro, Triple Action Dry Eye Relief. Let's take a step back and talk about your career. As I said, you come you didn't come from the private club world as you mentioned. You began as a bellman at the Franklin Hotel in New York in nineteen ninety three. I actually b m started in the mailroom of the Washington Post, so I I feel that journey. And you worked your way through all the departments, including housekeeping, room service, front desk, reception. Did you have an entrepreneurial vision guiding you through those early jobs? Honestly, like uh m so much of my life and career has been luck. Uh I mean, even the fact that I'm in private clubs right now, I did I wish I could have said like I knew AI was coming and I knew social media was coming and I knew how important these clubs were gonna be. I it's just I'm lucky. I was always very dyslexic growing up. I never thought I'd own a hotel or hotels or private clubs. And so I just got really lucky. This guy, Bernard Goldberg, who was my mentor, just taught me everything I knew and he was a pioneer in the boutique hotel industry in the nineties. It was really just him and Ian Schraker. Was there a thing he said to you that stuck with it? Mine was Walt Mossberg, um in writing and he said, uh, you know, always parachute in with your cleats on. That's what it stays with me every step of my career. That's so great. I'm trying to think, I don't think there was any one thing, but he really taught me how to look for value. So if you look at my career, everything I did when I bought the Sunset Tower, you know, no one believes this. No, they couldn't give the Sunset Tower away. It was called the Argyll Hotel, it was a dump. I remember. They kept on lowering the price. And I bought it for like $18 million . And that's a lot of money. But when you think about it, to buy a property like that. And and he he said always find value where no one else can. Speaking of which, in 2013 you purchased the San Vicente Inn in West Hollywood. And at the time it was run down, clothing optional, men-only motel that community news site described as the Sin bin . Nobody wanted to invest in you in the Santa Santa. What was the pitch? It was so hard. Well, first of all, even as a gay man, it was hard for me to go there because there was like it was also very druggie and it was just this weird crazy place. They were having sex out in the open. Nothing wrong with that, but it it was very hard to get like a buttoned up investor or banker to because I didn't own it yet. I was just in esc row. So I couldn't get investors. In fact, the this is a very funny story. The um I was I went to like 5 2 lenders and they all said no. Cause they'd go there and they'd be really kind of like, ugh. And so my husband said to me, you know what? We're gonna, I'm gonna show you how, like, we get a movie made. Invite your banker, invite his wife, and we're gonna invite some movie stars to dinner, and you're gonna get that loan. And he was he was right, it happened. So that that's uh I had to kinda like my husband is a man named John Goldwyn whose grandfather was Sam Goldwyn and he ran Paramount Pictures for thirteen years. He was vice chairman. He's also a producer . He pr produces many shows and movies. And he's a brilliant person in the industry and obviously very connected. So he knows how to get movies made. So it's not unsimilar. But how did you get people to like the sin bin, did you say, now with a hundred percent less naked druggery? It was really hard. I would try to uh I would try to um you know, there were m moments in the day, like especially early in the morning when they usually weren't out, although sometimes they would still be coming off of one of their like benders. So I would try to do the tours at like eight in the morning or nine in the morning. It was really hard. It was really hard. But it even more than just like seeing the people there, the place was such it was like a rundown motel. Now it's this incredibly glamorous, beauti ful place that you f you feel like it's been there forever and will be there forever. Like what happens in Palm Springs. Palm Springs had all these Yankee hotels and now they're beautiful. The gays came in and gayed them up and they're fantastic . But what was the pitch that didn't work for investors? What did? What finally did when you were bringing them in well I th I mean essentially what happened was I had to put together I it really was tough. I couldn't get investors. I had to really cobble investments together, like fifty thousand dollars here. And then that loan that I got was a construction loan that that we use celebrities to get us . And then right before I opened is when I found my current investor, which is this company, Ohana . And they there's a guy named Franco Familaro,, uh who works at Oh ana, who's who's very smart, and he uh had been speaking to me actually about the Sunsa Tower, and he said, What's going on with that private club? And I said, Oh, I had to cobble together, I'm about to open. He said, Well, can I see it? And he came and saw it and he said, I'd like to take out all your investors . Th they'd only been it for in in it in the investment for like eighteen months. He said, I'll give them like a sixty percent return, which is great for an eighteen month investment to make sixty percent return. I've never, you know, you're lucky if you make eight percent a year, so um and uh I'd like to take them all out. And he did, and then he also helped me grow or because you know Ohana was able when I found the Jane Hotel to help finance that. Right. So now you you and your partner, this is Ohana real estate investors you're looking to sell a stake in the company to fund global expansion so how do you think about that because obviously expansion is always the thing to do you open Jane you have Jane San Vicente Bungalows you've got and Jane is is the San Vicente is Jane and the San Vicente Bugloss. Well it's no longer the Jane, it's San Vicente West Village. Right, okay. But you have these two east and west coast investments and these things, but you want to expand globally. Talk about how you think about that. Because it's you know, with doing these things, it's always a risk, obviously. It is a risk. I'm I'm not trying to build hundreds of clubs. I think luxury brands often die when growth or go public like itself becomes a strategy or go public. What makes these environments work is you know the culture and atmosphere and trust. And so it's fragile. I mean, I can't do like a cut and paste and just copy these. And I I'm really trying to build institutions, not trends. So I can only do a few of these. I mean, uh you know, if I did two or three more in the next seven years, I'd say that's a lot. And as I say, it's like I don't want these to be hot. I I want places to feel like they've been there forever and will Are you considering certain cities like Washington or Siena? I don't know. I haven't considered Washington, but I think uh Washington would be interesting. Well they have the Ned and then that stupid Trump one. I almost bought a very expensive membership there which is I think it's about a hundred thousand I just was like I this is an investment in irritating people. And I to sit there in the dining room wave at Scott Bessent every five minutes or or David Sachs, like, hey, hey girl, what up? It's hilarious. You know, I was friendly with Scott Besson. He was very lefty. Let's remind Trump of that. He was quite a lefty. But what would you think? What's what's the ideal kind of city you're looking for when you're not in the obvious ones are Los Angeles and New York and maybe San Francisco, right? Presumably. Yeah. You know, for me, I right now I'm more focused on this transaction and finding a new partner that I I haven't really been because I just opened Santa Monica and I just opened West Village. I haven't really been Uber focused on where the next club is. I have these fantasies of doing one in Paris. Uh I would love Par me and my husband like you know, we take French lessons. We love we're Francophiles. And so a lot of it also depends on the actual physical space that I see. Like so much of it, people think I'm this like perfect like uh corporate person but I really have no none of that in me and so much of this is like I'm almost like an artist like I have to see the place and then I kind of am like I, think we should turn this into a club. Like I never am like, okay, I want to open in Washington, D.C. So I start like, you know, spending months in DC looking at spaces. I it just these things kind of like hit me. Yeah, I can't think of one space you'd find interesting here. I have to tell you. Well Yeah. I mean it 's I don't like the Ned, I'll be honest with you. I don't think I've been there. No. It's very thirsty. It seems to be doing well. It's doing fine. I s I get why people go to it. It's actually you know what? It's beautiful. It's comf they're gonna probably call and yell at me, but I don't care. It's beautiful. It's it's really interesting. It's just very performative. It's trying so when you're when I'm in your places, I feel like it's exactly the way it it's like hotels. Sometimes hotels are really performative. And I find I know they did it for the way it looked, not because it was someone had a heart. It doesn't have heart. I don't know what else to say. A big mistake. Every location has to have its own soul. Right. And I that's why I originally liked some of those Soho houses, because I thought they had heart. Like they had some now and then they become sort of cookie cutters in a lot of ways. But you know I, I was there and I ran into a lot of people, and I s and my wife and I were like, we gotta get out of here. We'd never, you know what I mean? Like I just couldn't imagine wanting to spend any time there. But people like it because Washington's really performative, so it works Hey Jeff, congratulations on all your success. This is Chip Cottonley, fellow hospitality entrepreneur, Boutico Tullier, modern elder of Airbnb, and the founder of MEA, the Modern Elder Academy, the World's First Midlife Wisdom School. I have learned along the way that, scale and soul sometimes are at odds with each other. You want to grow revenues and yet you want to keep exclusivity. How are you, as a social alchemist, uh, a mixologist of people, going to scale your business in such a way that it still has the exclusivity and the beautiful soul that it's always had when you're gonna be all over the world. I wish you all the best on your journey. Anyway, great question from Chip. Um I I think scale and soul absolutely are are at odds with each other and most h hospitality brands lose their soul because growth becomes a strategy instead of the consequence. The way you protect soul is through restraint, curation, and standards. We're very intentional about not expanding too quickly. Culture is fragile. I don't think exclusivity comes from price alone. It it comes from emotional consistency. And members have to feel the same trust and intimacy , you know, and discretion and atmosphere. And so I think, you know, staying focused on that is the way. You can scale systems, but you can't scale taste. And you know, back to my Airmes, I'm obsessed with Airmes. Airmes is valuable because they protected the standards, not because they maximize distribution. And I really respect that. And so I don't want, you know, again, I I just don't I'd rather have a few truly exceptional clubs with sold than hundreds that feel efficient, but Aaron Powell But does that make a problem if there'd be too many private clubs and the market becoming oversaturated? That was one thing I worried about as a media entrepreneur, is everyone copied me, the stuff I did, the code, which was very I could have done it worldwide, right? And I didn't because I just wanted it to be good the way it was. And whenever I expanded, I was always regretful mu some of the time. Some of the time it worked. But I was always wary of expansion, very much so, because you you know you can't just stamp it out and make it good. And also from a business perspective, then it got problematic because everyone was trying to hire my reporters or they were trying to copy it. And then ultimately there is a saturation problem. Aaron Powell Well I think I mean it depends. I I think most cities are still very underserved when it comes to real community and gathering spaces. I mean, our friend Brit Mortgans Sach is opening in Jacksonville, Florida. And I think that's really cool. And I think we're going to see a lot more of that. That said, I do think there are too many clubs being created as social scenes or real estate products instead of being created as communities. And that's the mistake that we're seeing and I think we're gonna see those places fail. Yeah. It's like the tequila brand of the week, right? Or perfume brand or whatever that everyone must have. And they're you know, they're all they're trying to create buzz and far they can create it's easy to create buzz. I mean anybody can create buzz. And um but you to create that emotional attachment and long term loyalty is what's difficult and so that I think is what they have to be focused on. Yeah, absolutely . We'll be back in a minute . This week on Networth and Chill, we're diving into another edition of Am I the Asshole Finance Edition. And trust me, these money dilemmas will have you questioning everything. I'm breaking down real stories from real people who are navigating financial situations that range from mildly awkward to absolutely unhinged, and I'm giving you my unfiltered take on who's in the right and who needs a serious reality check. Because let's be real, when it comes to mix ing relationships and finances, someone's always asking if they're the asshole. Learn how to set boundaries, protect your wealth, and avoid becoming the villain in your own financial story. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.com/slash you are rich BFF. Modern motherhood has become an unwinnable game. I am Rabinard's son, and I do not believe in treating exhaustion as proof of love. A good mother is not a depleted one. An ambitious mother who wants to be someone outside of mom is no less obsessed with her kids. This month on Project Swagger, we are defining motherhood on our own terms in a special series: Motherhood the Remix. In the first episode out now, why balance is a myth and how I started trusting myself over the noise. Listen or watch now at Project Swagger. Does Chinese President Xi Jinping see Trump as a partner or an opportunity? So President Xi comes to this meeting with quite a lot of confidence. They recognize that President Trump is dangerous potentially, is unpredictable, but I think they also believe that they can manipulate him. I'm John Finer, and I'm Jake Sullivan, and we're the hosts of The Long Game, a weekly national security podcast. This week, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Kirk Campbell joins us to discuss the Trump Xi Summit in Beijing. The episode's out now. Search for and follow the long game wherever you get your podcasts. So let's talk about the broader hospitality industry, because that's also part of it, because you are providing some level of hospitality and yet you don't just own private clubs, you also uh own hotels. And when you started out in the hotel business in the nineteen nineties, a landscape was very different. Boutique hotels were on the rise and competed with big chains like Marriott and Hilton, and then vacation rentals like Airbnb and V RBO took off, and they're operating under a totally different economic model. How do you think of your competition? Because, you know, right now there was a great story, and I agree with this, is that they knocked Airbnb out of New York and now hotel rooms are just more expensive. It didn't make it a better scene in any way, or less and I'm I'm almost like bring back the Airbnb because you know it hurts m you know, I understand it was being abused, but it didn't mean hotels rose to the occasion. How do you look at your the economic models of hotels versus Airbnb s versus other ways of hospitality? Well, it I mean listen, as a hospitality person, I actually appreciated that they don't allow Airbnbs in New York because th they really hurt us . And the thing is, you know, Airbnb has all these things that they can do that hotels can't do. Whether you're a union or a non-union hotel, you know, it's very expensive to run a hotel. And so an Airbnb can deliver something much cheaper and it would really be putting a lot of people out of work. I wish LA, quite frankly, would do that. But hospitality used to be much more transactional, you know, great food, beautiful design, good service. Those things still matter enormously. But today people are the way to succeed in hospitality is to emotionally connect. And again, it's like back to this whole idea of the product having a soul. That that is to me how it's different now and how that's my strategy. You know, hospitality historically has really it's it's it's all you know, you talk about four seasons or you talk Hilton, all these products, they're all commodities. They're rooms are just commodities. And so m my job is to do the opposite of that and and not just deliver white boxes that you can get everywhere. Everywhere. But President Trump's tariffs have led to higher operating costs. That's another thing for hotels last week. Has that affected you on the hotel with with workers? Where is the real push and shove right now in the hotel business. And again, you have higher-end hotels, but it's the same thing everywhere, I think. Especially because employment is back to pre-pandemic levels, but the staffing shortages, high turnover, the administration's obviously heavy-handed immigration enforcement has left to decline in international visitors and a tightening of the labor market. And so your businesses depend on maintaining high standards and flawless service. So talk about those economic wins that you have to face to retain good workers, the same time keep costs down in order to make money. What do you think the most important things right now in the hospitality industry for you are? It's it's really hard. It it's never been this hard. Uh COVID really also changed my industry because people don't wanna be they don't wanna actually you know, they wanna work from home, which you can't do in hospitality. Hospitality emo is really an emotional labor. People stay when they feel respected, empowered, and proud of the environment, and that that is part of something meaningful. So I feel like we still have that. We spend a huge amount of time thinking about culture internally, not just to members, but for staff. And guests feel that immediately when the staff culture is very healthy, like ours, but it's very, very hard to do. It's very hard to find good manager. I mean, we have some of the greatest people. I mean, Gabby is a great example of this. She's great. She's just amazing. But you know, I had to really think outside the n everybody was like, you're cra zy. Why are you hiring this former magazine editor like to to lead up your membership? But you know, she d she doesn't understand hospitality. She understands it better than anybody. I mean she's also a brilliant, brilliant wom an and can adapt to anything. But you know, it's just getting harder. And I've been forced to think outside the box with people like Gabby. Dimitri's another example of that. I mean, even though he's worked for me for 22 years, everybody was like, no one wants that old school Matre D. He's I love a Matre D. What are you talking about? That's the best. Well now we do because we've you know, we realize that uh the old world ways are so exciting and thrilling and but um at the time, you know , um great hospitality people like Chip Conley are artists in their own way and they're creating atmosphere and comfort and you know emotional tone. Explain who Dimitri and Gabby are. So d Dimitri's the Matre D at the Tower Bar. He's this old school he he's from Macedonia. He bows. He he just loves his job. He is literally the definition of hospitality. And Gabby has become as well. Gabby's the head of membership, global membership. She oversees all three clubs. So she's really with me curating who and this committee who we're going after. I mean Gabby will wake up one day and say, We don't have enough people in Broadway, in the theater, you know, in New York. Let's find some. And let's find some. Let's uh contact some producers, directors, whatever it is, and get that community. You know, that's what a great magazine editor does, by the way, just so you know. Aaron Powell, e i well that's why I kind of knew she was gonna be so amazing, because uh really that's what she is editing a magazine, uh a real life magazine. Aaron Ross Powell What about travel ers when you think about like is that been affected with the terror of people coming here? Aaron Ross Powell So I'm really lucky. I mean, honestly, my only re I have two hotels. I have the Sun's Tower and then I have this little hotel 850, which is so sweet, and they're both so unique that and there's nobody truly competing with either of them. I mean, for example, and to me, this is a trick in business. It's like the Sunset Tower is sing ular. It's this art deco Hollywood Hotel. Okay, yes, if you want old Hollywood, perhaps you could go to the Chateau or perhaps you could go to the Beverly Hills Hotel. Those are also two very different things. But if you want old Hollywood and you want it to be chic and you don't want it to be a ripoff and you don't want it to then we're the only game in town. So I feel like we're lucky that we're so singular in that respect. Aaron Powell So you have people you don't think you have just one of a kind. You know, you're in your own lane, so it's not that I think so. But I also would never do like I like the London Hotel is for sale in LA and they keep on trying to m get me to buy it. I would never buy it. It's on San Vicente and Sunset. It's a great location. But nobody can make that special. Nobody can give that place a soul. You'd have to tear it down. Yeah, I agree with you. I absolutely agree. I'veed stay ever aty hotel in Los Angeles. I'm a hotel who . I go from one to the X and quietly. It's the thing I do spend money on. It doesn't have to be a good spending money on experiences. See? Um depend it's not always a fancy hotel. It's really I have weird. There was one in Venice that I loved that closed that I loved. Oh yeah, the little one? The little one. You know , I love that place too. That was a wonderful hotel. I loved that hotel so much. So I have one last question. You've worked in hospitality long enough to have seen lots of trends come and go, and you've said that it's easy to make something that's hot, but longevity in your business isn't easy. I can imagine it is. So what is your long-term vision for sustain ing a hospitality business? Does it outlive you or is it just Jeff was here and made this and then I mean I I hope it outlives me. That's a great question. I've never been asked that. I mean I've seen a lot of trends come and go in hospitality. Longevity is much harder than relevance for a moment. You know, I my long-term vision is not to build the hottest places again, but to build, you know, places that are that have weight to them that really that that's what I'd like to be remembered for. I want the clubs and the hotels to feel timeless rather than trendy. And that affects every single decision. You know, where we grow the design, the membership, the music, the lighting, press exposure, how much attention we seek publicly. Trendy spaces optimized for excitement and enduring spaces like us optimize for emotional attachment. Yeah. Can I ask you a final question? I I I'll answer first. What was your favorite I love hotels and I th have so many good memories from hotels. What was your favorite hotel? Mine was mine remains Dietin's Big Sur Inn. Although there's some beautiful hotels in Big Sur. And they're all gorgeous. Ventana and the rest, they're gorgeous. Deachin's big Surin, because I'm so happy when I'm there. It is a bad thing. of a place that has a soul that they have respected and enhanced rather than ruined. Because so many of these places like could get bought deacons could get bought by some asshole who's rich and always my worry. I know. And it happens. There was a place in the middle of nowhere in a town called Garzone that the chef Francis Melman Uruguay that I went to. That was I would say one of the most special hotels I've ever been to. It and he would the chef would cook over an open flame. There was like ev each room had its own personality. It was just like really it wasn't fancy. There was no uh and it was in this like weird little town in the middle of nowhere. Um it was really cool. It was just a very I I connected to that place very profoundly. And and also the food was delicious and you'd look at the stars at night and it was just the really pretty pool and it was a very cool place. Yeah. It's a moment. That's what hotels are. It's a moment. That's it's it's a feel we're creating feelings and so it's hard to do. So you know, it's like Deakin 's is great at that 'cause I mean Deakin 's it's like even the smell of the wood you know and the it's such a great place. Someday it won't be there, but I love I love the fact that someday it won't be there. Also , like you know, just go. It's ephemerality of it is with the beautiful thing about it. Anyway, you're a wonderful you create beautiful spaces. I really appreciate everything you do, Jeff. I'm not gonna join your f clubs, but because I'm at the hardware store. But I'm gonna come as a guest with my friends, like Brooke and others. And I think what you do is beautiful, actually. I know everyone like goes, oh private clubs, but I'm like, no, no, it's something else that's happening here. Everybody ha should have a space of the thing. I appreciate that. And I I agree. I and it's funny, when I started it, I was nervous about like is this a elitist thing? And it really is not, if it's a community thing. And and yeah I love that you see that and um I'm very proud of it. Yeah my grandfather had a place like that. It was called the dugout and he went there and played Pinochle every day and it was his hotel and he played cards with his buddies and they smoked cigars and it was a space and it was I would always have to go get 'em and I always used to think, Oh