Closing Thoughts and Outro

Hey one song Nure, we're off this week, but we wanted to share an episode from our archives where we dive deep into Mariah Carey's fantasy, specifically the Bad boy remix. And to help us break down the song, we enlisted Grammy awward winning singer, songwriter and producer, Duran Bernard, who, since we recorded this episode, has really gone from being, you know already a legendary backackground singer on songs by Erica Badu and Anderson Pach and Kate Trada to being wildly widely regarded as a superstar in his own right. If you have any awareness of Duran, you already know this episode is a wild one. We'll be back next week with a brand new episode until then, ennjoy our episode on Fantasy. Lominia Mal steps into McDonald's looks left, sees Pulick, L looks right, sees Samenez. Gives a nod to Ronald Dino in the corner with a FIFA World Cup meal. Ronald Dinho sees Sun in the booth, Sun finds Beckham going for extra bigig Mac sauce. He's got Dav's at the table just behind him. Davy's going for his colloectible cup.! A steal by Henry. Who pulls his own collectible cup? Collect one of nine legendary cups with a FFA Worldup meal P participating McDonald's for limited time, whilew suppies last All rights reserve twenty six McDald's FF Wor Cup twenty six Study and play. Come together on a Windows eleven PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal, everything you need to study and play with select Windows eleven PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft three hundred sixty five premium and a year of Xbox GamePass Ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller Learn more at windows d. com slash student offffer. Law Supplies last ends june thirtieth turns at aka. mS slash college PC There One song in the house. I said, list in the house Maby baby come on, start one song, start one song luxury in the house. We got Dan in the house And we got Marack Carry the old dirty doggie in the house. And we'll see how this goes This is one song. Hello Yeah I'm a little bit country. I'm a little bit rogger roll. I'm so so. Yes. Listen, he started immediately on the one. I was like, no, we gonna start on the two. he couldn't help himself if it was innate. Bless his hardart. We're work on him You know, we practiced on this for weeks. And I can I think it shows weeks. Now that we've established that everyone is in the house It's time on one song to talk about a pop masturpce a collision of two worlds. you have the pop princess of the nineties, you know, we already know who this person is. But then we put her with Staten Islands Grimeus and C What are the first stars out of the Wu Tang Klan And we've got a song powered by, you know One of the greatest hooks in, you know, history. It's like a song that like if you were a certain age, you heard it on the radio, you seen it on a TV show. I'm going to stop using hip hop references. And I'm going talk about this song. The song is called Fantasy the Bad Boy remix, featuring Mariah Carey and old Dirty bastard. This is fantasy and this is one song shin and stars S st girl. Y new ' Brooklyn It's room vibe, here you go I can sell it are you're in the house. Baby baby, come on, baby, come on, baby, come on. Oh work into see you doesn't cl your home and you hold cl on my b. It's just a I mean, the way her voice comes in, it always reminds me of being a DJ because as a DJ, when that vocal comes in, like old Dirty always got the party hype But when her vocal came in all pristine and perfect, like it just sounded different coming out of those speakers. It always got the party hype. U But I don't want to get ahead of ourselves luxury Tell us what were talk about irst of all, it's Ran. Wlcome to the show, my friend. It's nice to see you. I'm glad to have you in particular as a guest for this episode. I think it's a perfect match. I actually got a quick question. You were just humming the intro right there. How many voices? haveave you ever counted how many different voices and characters and registers and ranges? Mariah is going a lot of places on this song. Like what from the singer's perspective, since you are yourself an incredible singer When you hear it, does it sound complicated? What does it sound like to you? What are your feelings as a fellow singer when you hear this song? That's a big question, I know.. First of all, it's good to be seen and not viewed. right now. It might feel a little of both.. There might be stuff on Instagram. that far. Listening now as an adult Mariah is The female Luther with a whistle register Wow. When you really listen to their choices and how they approach things, It feels it's but it's but it's a lighter texture. You know, heels with velvetty herses is lighter. And so that that gives a different contrast to it. that I've always appreciated it Um, herer voice And you're talking about Luther Van Drass, obviously, like Right There's only. only one'ss the luther.' tal about C H A I like what you're saying because there few people some people have gratuitous runs. We we donon't need to name. Come on gratuitous. Gratuitous runs. But nameame of a great album, by the way. but she doesn't. L she really feels like she's like feeling everything. and I can see I' never thought of it before I can see the connection Luther.'s. She has also said that she sings her songs the way that she does because she didn't She didn't want anyone else to sing them Oh yeah, it's posossible. Yeah. I've worked with I will say as a comedy writer, I've worked with some singers and And it's amazing to me how the degree to which whether they say it or not, they are trying to make every song their own. They're like, I don't want anybody else to be able to say this. I feel like it goes back to Stevie. I feel like nobody it's hard to cover Stevie. Durand, as our guest, what is it about this song that means so much to you? And do you have any sort of stories like the first time you heard it? Like is there a connection you feel to fantasy Hmm becausecause okay, growing up, My mother didn't play a lot of you know, secular music. you know, So it was a lot of jazz and gospel and whatnot. And a little bit of new age in there, you know, that ina that you play in yoga class, you know, we listen to that Um, there were some artists that I was able to sneak into the house, you know, like Janna Jacks was contraband. way to exhale, that was contraband. You know, But Mariah would get played on the jazz station. so Mariah was actually cool. So I could listen to Mariah and Whitney and Michael Jackson, you know, so I feel like Visions of Love was like a big song for Mariah like early on. See M was can't let go I can't speak for visionions love. I mean, that's a great song but no, I can't leg old baby. And when you are just I need AI to do, uh,, um Luther wish you' gonna call it, you know, swap on that song so you could hear what it would sound like we're singing H himm singing, don't let himm sing and can't let go You'll be like, oh, that's where it is. I mean, right now, that's the sound of everybody who's listening to this doing exactly that. The Lutheror Morai connection is so interesting to me because I heard her somewoneere talking about how like Luther actually, I think she got some singing tips either directly or indirectly from his idea that like you should always only ever be in human environments for your voice, like literally voice saving tips. But is there more to that connection? like tell us more from a singing standpoint. I'm so interested in the connection that you're making a few times now between Luther Vandraross and Marah Crey. Yeah, they actually have a song together as well but it just clicks there it's interesting how Please Vocal Titans can also influence each other and get tips from how to care for your voice, how to placement You know like note placement, like Oh yes, that's so key. I feel like note placement is more effective than the run. That's like where to place the note in time. likeike where to syncopate, how long to elongate it. There's so many details about singing that like I want to learn from you because it's like, I'm a musician producer, but it is my weakness is like I just I can do my thing and that's it. But you I've heard from your amazing music and Mariah, as we were talking about earlier, with her meant with her multiple vocal range and the whistle, all of this will get into it. Did you kind of over time have you kind of like gradually conquered Maybe each area of singing separately or did it come naturally to you? Did you have a teacher? like how did you learn to sing? is my question. I And so I feel like singing learned me. You know, I didn't get a chance to take music seriously. first, it kind of it was there, you know, because both of my parents are musicians and they both sing as well. And also my my cousins, you know, they're musically inclined, you know, to you know, degree they're singing in choir or, you know, of course or, you know, taking some kind of drama class, you know, so there's there's all these ways in which we express ourselves through music. So it wasn't until I I went on the road with my dad with Earth Wind and Fire when I was sixteen And I was able to see And were you were young, right? when you were seventeen. You were sixteen. Yeah. And you're out there with Verdine? Verdine the V. Y. Yeah, yes.es. That look good. Yeah, smell good. How you doing? Yeah ye right. All right. I'm not yet. For those of you who don't know, that is an amazing impression. And I never got a chance. I used to work with Kabron White. Yeah. So you know, I used to see those guys sometimes Yeah, that's an amazing impression.. Yes, not. I love him. love him. Zialo, please set the scene for us, if you will. This song is released. It's nineteen ninety five. Where are you? Where is Zialo Riddle In nineteen ninet five. And what do you think of Mariah at the time? I'm glad you bring it up. I was in I just I was in college and You know, that's like a time when you're in college like nobody can tell you anything about music. If you like music You feel like you know just enough of what happened in the past, but you're like right in the zyge. You know exactly what's going on in the culture. And And you got your identity too. you got your identity tri. And I was firmly implanted hip hop by this point. you know, growing up, Michael Jackson and the Pethot boys, but like at this time like I was one hundred percent in hip hop. and nineteen ninety five, like Mariah is cool. you know what I mean? Like nowadays my wife is like, you know, she's of the perfect age where like Mariah is like her Michael Jackson, Madonna, just given the age. So like she likes, you know, some some of those Mariah Cary songs, and I'm like, You know, like 'causeuse to me, that's not what I was trying to hear. Like I was about mry. I was about faith I was about like, you know, there were there were R and B you know, Queens at that time that like, you know, you just were impeachable And I think the most interesting thing about this song that we're talking about today is that when it came out It was like, wait a second. She's got a sol with old dirty bastterard. Like it was it was, you know, I always say Mariah, I'm sorry, Mary and Meth with you all I need was like that was like one of the first ones. It went a Grammy. like it was like, o this When SWV did the remix of anything with Wu Tang, like we were like, yo, anything is possible now. So this is a crossover moment between This is like what it was like, wait Hi Mariah is and apparently her, you know, her husband at the time, Tomy Metola runs the record label and he's not happy about this. He's like, you're throwing away all of the pop princess, you know branding if you will. He's scared. Yeah, he' like there's no way this could work. Yeah. But it was Mariah's idea. She was like, I want to do a song with oldldreay Bastard. In her words, he reminds me of the uncle who's drunk at the barbe. the show. We always bring up these drunk uncles. And so she was like, I really wanted to be him It's interesting also from a let's get really granular on this. This is a time when according to Naz Wu Tang and Bad boy have beef because Wu Tang feel like they represent where East Coast hip hop and New York hip hop is and they feel like Puffy is ruining it with, you know, all the Versace shades and talking about that connection. I was curious about that. I hop you'd explain thatu Tang, Staten Island grrimy. and here comes, you know, puffy, like, I mean, by You know, nineteen ninety five is a similar year, we talked about this on the show before. it It's a very important year in terms of hip hop. It's the year that the one more chance remix by Biggie samples debarge And suddenly black radio stations that never played hip hop before They were always R and B in the day and they might play hip hop at night. all of a sudden d in the daytime, they're playing baby one more chance. You know like it changes overnight And that's a sound that wouldn't normally That Junior Mofy album came out. like everything is changing like really rapidly. you know, during this time. And so nineteen ninety five Mariah doesn't solve an old dirty bastard we're going to get into the shenanigans that take place in both the recording and the music video. But this was big, this was big because it showed how much Not just R and B, but now POop is now going to basically be singing over hip hop. Yeah in ways that it hadn't been before. Now Mariah herself Pick this sample, Gius of loveve by Tom Tom Club and let's hear a little bit of it Here's what Mariah said about her use of that sample. I was listening to the radio and heard Genius of loveove and I hadn't heard it in a long time. It reminded me of growing up and listening to the radio and that feeling the song gave me seemed to go with the melody and basic idea that I had for fantasy I initially told Dave about the idea and we did it. We called up the Tom Tom Club because you know, they were like, listed And they were really into it. By the way, the day that she's referring to is her producer, Dave Hall, who worked on records with a lot of artists, including Mary J. Bblige and Madonna. and here is how that Tom Tom sample sometometimes club sample sounds in the song No Sorry. I just laugh sometimes because there's so much going on there vocally. There's like fifty different ideas, but it works somehow. like there's d And then there's like maybe literally three different les happening at once in a different way. It just made me laugh in this. It's very it's very church. When you have like this bl bl bl ter point. It's all all the different things. the top notose is doing something different from the from the main note and then they kind of come together at the end to kind of add this lush Cascade of different Yes. But it reminds me of the Stevie Wonder, what we talked about with the Klavininets because like we did an episode about Stevie Wonder superstition. and when you isolate the Klavininets, there's like four different ideas on eight different tracks and they're all doing different things. But they're finding different syncopated pockets and different notes and that's why it works in the mix And there's kind of an interesting parallel here too, because each of those singers is singing a different note with a different rhythm different lyric. anyway, it's just and in the mix it works. I just love I just love the idea of Carrie being in a car listening to the radio, hearing a song she likes. She's like, Ohh, that's cool. Let's let's call it the Tom Tom. Okay right? That's called access. Yeah Yeah Now we do have a lawyer in the house, Les Guam, and she was keen to note that Mariah has a songwriting credit on this song Do's Mariah? Get the props she deserves as a songwriter, I'm asking both of you I'd like to hear your opinion. A So She's been writing for a nice little while now U U some of the lyrics might tickle me Right. Okay what's lyic that tickles Those chickens is ash and I'm lotion U Wh U MI George Foreman Oh That's good I had to think about that one. I didn't think about that s. She mentioned something where she was saying Cheetos. I was just like. So the answer is no. she's not getting the props she deserves as a songwrer. I mean, Well, depends on what she's writing. Yeah. don't know depends on what she's writing. becauseuse I, I'm just mentioning things that tickle me, but she's written like She has great songs No, I mean Yeah. and I think one thing that's very clear is that fantasy by Mari Cery like There are two popular versions of this song. and until we just played that other one, I had totally forgotten that there was one other than the old dirty because I only really ess with Well, we got to talk about the backstory of how we even came to this episode because we were talking about Mariah and trying to choose what Mariah song should we do? And fantasy came up pretty quickly for me because I love this song. I love the backstory which I'm about to go into with all the samples and interpolations. like that's my jam, like I can live for that. We're about to go down a really fun rabbit hole about that But when we were talking about it, like I did not, I mean, I'm raising my hand. like I first to admit, I did not know of the existence of the remix. That's crazy. I had neverever heard it And Diallo because it's not that he had never heard the original, but it's like we absolutely had two different worlds. Maybe I had roundly avoided it. Wow. But no the way, that's one thing I love about nineties' hip hop is that there was always a remix. and a lot of the times the remix was a completely different song. like a completely different record. new vocals. Y. newew vocals. Oh, by the way I want to I want to talk about my favorite O dirty Bastard song of all time It is the radio edit. Broklyn Zoo. because As opposed to nowadays when like you just drop out the curse words and even my kids are like, man, they're cursing a lot because this' essentially like, you know, whole verses go away and stuff like that Allright In the early to probably mid nineties, there was a lot of just re recording an L So you know, one of the first first where I really noticed that you know, sometimes the clean vers is better is deep cover because Snoop the on the dirty verion, he wass like, I got to gauge Uzie and my mother in twenty two. But on the editit, he's like, I got to gauge and Uzie and my nickel plated twenty two. And I as a writer, I was like, ooh, nickel plated twenty two. Like it was more there was more imagery that was forming in my brain Yeah. But an improvement. But old dirty Bastard takes the cake He takes the cake when it comes to coming up with completely different lyrics. I'm going to play you a snippet And really, if you get a second, just go on YouTube or wherever you can find Brooklyn Zoo, clelean Eedit. The whole song is like this. If you play the dirty version first and then the clean version, it's a completely different song. Some of the best ad libs in history. I'm just gonna play a snippet. Here he goes Wh Who couldn't figer? Yall Who couldn't figure? Yall Who could' figure. How to pull a gun trigger. Get out there. That is a sampling. There are so many sound effects. There are so many places where he just changes the lyric like that one part U I think he says like, without a gun trigger, you crazy Instead of that, he goes without pulling a gun trigger. Get out of here. Like he screams, Get out of here. And I just feel like that's some stuff that you would never come up with. a better choice. frankly. It's a better song. It Wiley Coyote building. in the song. likeike he brought Looney Tunes. He brought the acmne. Yeah He brought the Ane b. Yes. Nowm actually, you're going take us on how we go From Tom Tom Club to fantasy to Lo, you're going to take us through the hole. You just know I'm going to have a great time with this. and everyone, you're all going to have a great time with this. Inpolation, interpolation. sampling rabbit hole. It all begins. it's nineteen eighty one. And one of my favorite parts about this journey is especially at the top half of it, there's a lot of We're going to talk in a later episode about the history of remixes and about Jamaica, which I'm so excited for because I'm a big Jamaica and dub buuff. But there's a lot of Jamaica in the original song in the original sample. So really quickly, the Tom Tom Club, for those who don't know, this is half of the band talalking heads. It's the husband and wife team of Tina Waymth on base. and Chris Frs on drums. And they're on a break. They go down to Bahamas compompass stududios And the first Jamaican connection here is that Compass Point is owned by Chris Blackwell of Island Records. In other words, the guy who made Bob Marley famous Right off the gate, we've got San and Robby are in the next room, spepeaking of Ree. They are in the middle of nineteen eighty one a new era of Regi that they kind of pioneer And Stehven Stanley is their producer, a Jamaican man, who's also a co writer of the song. So they they're steeped in What is at the time kind of a new sound of dub and sort of extended remixes Um So on day one, they're thinking Jamaica, they're thinking sampling their thinking remixes interestingly baked into this song already when it's made is this idea of like reusing and repurposing other songs and other material. That's the core of Jamaica. Again, deep dive, big time, deep dive in another episode. If I could just jump in real quick, there's one other part that I think is worth mentioning, which is that you know, if you think about the first Be Bop song, you know, like we one of the first by Charlie Parker is a song called Cococo where he admits like, you know, that is my interolation, if you will, of Cherokee by Ray Noble, which had come out like twenty years earlier. So I think that in a lot of these, you know, American and African American and Jamican American music forms, there is This tradition of like taking something from about twenty or thirty years back Yeah and then just you know, revving it up and making it more modern. And I think that's one of the coolest things about this particular song is that it just keeps coming back. You know, every, you know other generational. Yeah, we're about to hear that same snippet, which we've already heard a lot on the show a lot more times. It is one of the most sampled licks of all time, that two bars of drums and bass that we keep hearing throughout this episode U So getting back to Tom Tom Club genius of loveove, in part inspired by a song called More Boundnce to the Oce by Zap So I'll play a little sip for you right now. In particular, the beat and the very slowed down funk beat. Big, delicious clap, one of my favorite claps. I could listen to troutment rack people just be inspiring everything. I know because I can think all I hear isZap now when I hear you know, those The talk box, the man. I mean, like I can just imagine those two French guys being like, that's the sound. You know what I mean? Like that stuff is wonderful. It is deep. It is wonderful. And they love that beat. So they tried to do something with a similar beat one hundred three BPM slowed down. And to get that clap talking about Jamaica, I mentioned before, when they recorded it, Sly and Robbie were in the next room And they actually get a shout out on the song. This is that song where they mentioned Bohannon, Bohan. James Brown. That's another thing I wanted to talk to you about with this song is this is an example. They have like fifty different voice ideas in the song Genius of loveve, which is why another connection to me with Mariah is like all of these different ways of presenting Vocal material, like all the different ways to do it. It's so interesting So I want to get your opinion about that before we move on. L is this a song that means as much to you as it did to Mariah maybe? Are you a fan of genenius of love? Let me ask I do like the song. Yeah I love it. and it wasn't until I started DJing. I was just like, no, I need to add this in there because I'm I might be more prone to play the original. then just to remind people where these songs all came from. Yeah Yeah. yeah. so. But then you can always go into one of the other songs. Absolutely ye. abbsolutely I love onene of my favorite parts is, what you gonna do when you get out of jail? I'm going have some fun. body I love I just love just the different conversation. Whs that conversation taking place Yeah by the way. I mean, just like in meeting in the ladady's room by climax, you know at the begin of theong she's talking about I need to get myself together., whereere's my jury?, canan we talk? I need it out of my no. Right. I know what that means. I don't seen the stududio fifty four documentary. So Sly and Robby are in the next studio. T Te Club Chris and Tine are like, come on in here, contribute to song we just gave you a shout out. We love your music So they come in there and they record three layers of claps. So the claps you hear on this song are they went through the whole seven minute long version and just twenty minutes of clap. no clap looooping. It's twenty one minutes of flying Robbie on claps in this in this in the mix in there Yeah, which is really amazing. So So as I mentioned, this is one of the most ample songs of all time It's in the canon as a song itself and as a reuse use. So it's been sampled, it's been interpolated. One of the more famous ones and one of the earliest ones is this is Grandmaster Flash and the Furious F. and it's actually not a sample. It's an interpolation It's nasty. I try to get some wrapping. o sit to r This is we for the c You know, I would have loved to be that guy who's auditioning to be a rapper from like to like famous rappers back then. Like you come here and like, I got those skills. They're really good. They're like, no, you doing it wrong. I don't know. There's somethinghing wrong about it. It's not just me, right? N just you. I want to see those people audition. Oh God. ' they all have the same voice Well, and I'd be remiss if I didn't include this one sample out of many Return to the map. And it's just the be. Oh, I wass want to say, okay. Really? Let's flying Robby on those cls, right? Now we know That's a distinctive clack Come on M h? Yes she did. M Oh my go. It's like He's like a moor ocing he's more of a more vocally interesting version of Keith Sweat, ' you know, 'causeuse Keith Sweat being out out of that. You got it. but he But onene of my favorite things about Return of the Mac and long timee listeners the show know this is that it is Chucky Booker's. say why? Why you w to Th Why you wanna play Wh that one no. Wher?hot up at Chuckkey Booker. Churucky Booker, man, like that. I gotta do a wellness check on him. I just randomly did a wellness check on Jason James Richter and Le Chat Uh oh. They're all doing well. Okay. Yeah. was worried. Where Is this like a service that is it like randomly just ra to th think about what happened to that little boy that was on free Willie? Let me just see. H last person was a week ago. All right. And I checked on the chat. you know, but you need some gum. L some thunder. You know, just how are these people doing? I might do one of those on a big tuck like still random wellness check and go on Twitter and be like, y'all I was thinking about such and such. and they all right. All right, so that's genenius of loveve. That's Tom Tom Club. That's the origin. We have sames, We got interpolations all over the place, but it is also the bedrock of Mariah Carey's fantasy, which is the bedrock itself of the song ostensibly we're talking about today, which is the remix So layers are layering in real time, right in front of our very eyes. Let's get into Mari Carey's fantasy. This is from nineteen ninety five. We talked a little bit about prodroducer, co writer, Dave Jamhall. as I was doing my research I learned the fact that I did not know. Besides having produced Mary J. Bligees' What's four hundred one one, do you know who Producer Dave Jam Hall was married to at the time this record was made. Nope, tell us Ms. Wanda Sykes. What I did not know. I didn't know that. T true fact. Sayan didn't know that don. Okay N a man been in the studio the day the song was recorded for all I know. We do not know. But he did what's the four and one for Mary Heid Mary's four one,'s four one? He had a hot hand becauseuse I'll tell you, man, these are huge records. It' a huge, huge record. Yeah. The bedrock of fantasy is a two bar loop of genius of love And on top of it, there's some light synth sprinkled. I'm gonna play you a little moment. Here's just from the instrumental backing track. In the mix, you may not even notice this because it's very, very minor, but it does add a little bit of juice So here is the fantasy instrumental and some of the addditional sauce This is really cool. I' never noticed this before I'd never noticed that little kind of, it's almost like a rose or something like that, but it's really buried. It almost sounds like a vooc cer. yeah, because she up in here Jed You don't hear all that. so you know, but now that's real pretty. It's really pretty, yeah, it's really basic and it kind of mirrors sweet, sweet things Any conversation about Mariah and especially this song would be, I'd be remiss to not mention something that only Mariah can do, and that's this That's called the whistle tone. Oh my God, can you do the whistle What is it? Oh Maria could do, We don't forget about Betty and Minni. I was gonna to get into Minnie in a second. I mean modern day. let me reset. You're absolutely right. It's not the only one, but she is certainly known for it in the modern era. Oh yeah, the way she colored the way she colored her whistle and the approach, yeah, she started that As a singer, when you hear that, what does it mean to you like is this something that you've ever tried to do or used? Is it achievable by mortals? What's the story with the whistle I look at it as this tiny hole in your throat that you can push air out of and if you can get sound out of it, then And also men are because we can get lower, If we can access a wis so we can always have brighter range than So is it true? I'm going to be the I'm going to be the dumb lay man here. Is it true that women don't have a real falsetto So Men have falsettos. women have head voices. Okay. It's just it's just a term. It's just a term. Yeah. But they're both technically the head voice, is that right? The So yes, it's just that when we're doing our false, it's a false No, because that's not our natural You know what I'm saying? So yeah I always had a pretty good fals out Yeah, that was my sweet spot. Yeah. That's my swet spot. I've heard I love your f. Oh, Thanks, Ma. should try I appreciate it Well Ash later that? That's that I want to hear later.. she got some rests. Yeah becauseuse whis tone from what I understand, it's like we humans aren't really sure how it's produced because you can't actually get a camera from what I understand, like in the epiglottis. It's like it's very from a medical standpoint, it's beyond what I could understand. But like there's a little mystery to how it is actually produced. It's one of those things that you just kind of feel and aim and practice until you get, I suppose. That's literally how it was for me because I found out I found out that I had a whistle by laughing L it would just be this scraatch leg Oh like all of that like all of that is range. That's range. It's just and it's a note You know what I'm saying? So But you f by accident. Yeah. Yeah. It just happened. You're like, oh, I got. And then literally a friend was like, you should try that next time you record a song. like try to access that And so you just spend time with it and then you learn how to access it sometimes except I'm sorry No, no, please. Except for when Layla Hathway tried to teach me the two no thing I thought I was going to hurt myself. Oh that s singing two notes at one Aord. Anyime that I the two ball in because sing no way. I did hit two notes when I did u During Sam's vibe on tiny desk. but that wasn't on purpose. Oh wow. that was not on purpose. I just knew that it was there. I just knew the whistle was there How it was going to come out Okay. You know, this thing pays a mortgage. you know So Yeah one of the best voices out there, period. It's amazing what you're able to do. And by the way, as a comywright, I will say you do it in very funny ways. L your sense of humor is still there. I always respect Fontte Coleman is somebody who I have a great deal of respect for He reached out to us on comedy And it was, you know And we already knew Little Brother, but then it was like, oh man, you know what? Now we think about it all them Little Brother albums are hilarious. Yeah. So yeah, I think that comedy and music often go together. And since you mentioned her, I'd be remiss if in the conversation about Mariah Carey and the whistle. if I didn't play a little bit of Minni Rippertton for you, this is This is maybe the most famous whistle prior to Mariah and this is Lving you from nineteen seventy five. Oh D d d That's so great. Sanise and Chante Moore covering this song is amazing. especially when Chante does it because then she goes she goes highired. She She was up here chirping talking to the clouds. It's a magical sound. It's like a Disney movie or something. Of course a lot of people know this, but if you didn't, that's May Rudolph's mom. singing that Rudolph. Absolutely. I didn't I only found this out when I was researching, but at the very end of the song B Listen to what she sings. B B I know ing Maya Maya, Maya. How did I miss that? How did I miss that? We all missed that? I didn't miss that. Baby Baby. I've worked with Maya Rudolph. I mean listen he got an they talk about it that type of that. Maya Rudolph was in the room, young baby Maya, and that's what she's singing.. I love that little sweet moment there All right, so that's Mariah, that's fantasy, that's the original version. But we came here today to talk about the remix And the bad boy remix featuring ODB was done by Puff, along with his fellow bad boy Hitman member Nashine Myrick. So do y'all break it down for me, what did this remix mean to hip hop? How did it change things? I mean, again, you know, I feel like I was immersed in the scene both as like a DJ and an active listener. I was buying all the mix tapes. And I do think that, you know, this was one of the times where we realized hip hop wasn't just taking over R andB, it was taking over pop And I feel like for the next ten to fifteen years Almost all hip hop I mean, I'm sorry, almost all op and definitely RMB, it was it was so heavily hip hop influenced that it was hard to figure out where hip hop ended and where R andB began or where hP began. you know what I mean? Like so u I remember especially like when everybody really started singing like You know, like when Drake started like to really do his thing like By two thousand nine, it was like Man, is it hip hop if they don't rarap one verse, you know, if it's just all singing. likeike Right doesn't even count as hip hop. Yeah. I mean, like the first time I noticed like people were calling, you know some of the greates I'm talk about Luren Hillm Miss education You know, like there's there's some songs on there where she doesn't really, you know, rhyme a verse. like she sings, you know, the entire song. So I feel like we had already been heading in that direction, but definitely for the next ten or fifteen years like that's alough we were until pop sort of became Uh, kind of where it currently lives. Um, which I always say like right now, most pop singers like the Duapas, they're singing over what is essentially EDMs music. Right They're singing over like You know, if you if you took their vocals off and you put a dance track a few more techno flares in there, it would be a straight up dance track. But You know, for quite some time, at least from ninety five until twenty ten h you could make the argument that hip hop was for the lack of a better term pop. you know, hip hop had all the biggest artists, you know, from ludicrous, S Ti, Miss Elliott Um We were definitely driving that culture for a long time U And I do feel like as many people have noticed, that has changed you know, like now You know, a lot of what is hip hop with the exception of ironically of the women, you know, I think that, you know, if you were to ask who are the big male hip hop stars like They're not the household names the way that they were you know, now it's it's mainly about, you know, the Cardi's, the Meanss uh, you know Salwedi ice spice, but there was a time when uh, you know, hip hop was just was running things and I feel like this was point where hip hop and pop really merged in a way that it You know, now it almost seemed Pase. likeike, you know no heads would turn If, you know, I mean, do le but literally did the song with the baby So I mean, like and nobody cared. you know, they judged on the merits of the song, But like the time when like you could take a pop princess and put it with a hip hop person, that seems very passe. I gott to ask you real quick, what's your favorite rem mix of all time Who, iss between me and Sianca's new phone who D? U o. Or me and A relentix's remix to Faceetime. You know, I've always gotta plug my cself. No, I love it. I love it. This is something I know about you. But if we're talking about a remix that like Ain't it funny is a good one U that they say Samat. U withith everybody's favorite wrapper. Also the bootyicious the Wck Wild bootyellicious remix Oh and the Rex, the Teddy Riley remixed bumps, no, no, that's MC Hammer loweram. bumps. All I want to do is oom zoom them. Yeah. The remix remix Wow. Wait. Yes. I think we had to play a little bit of that. But you know what, hold that? Hold that. loveve like this by faith. Hello, Hello. Okay, that song. You got a hundred dollars bill, put your hands up. Okay. We gota you know what? we should talk about that song I will say, let me just pull it up because that's not the name of it. It's not called that. It's called, u It's Fat Man S scoop Yeah, love like this. neverever has someone to show me love I like this before. What show Zodiacide? Be faithful is the name of the song. I I'm gonna pull the DJ card and say, I knew it. It's called Be faithful. Oh yes it is, Yes it is.. And that song. Yes it is. Okay. I did not know that. When that came out. this is a DJ story real quick. When that song came out, let me tell you. drove me nuts because I would say from the time it came out, probably like two thousand two somewhere in there until It'ike honestly, like twenty ten, I had to hear that song five times a week. It was unavoidable. When I was writing an early script, I actually had my character go to five different clubs on one night and every single club he went to was playing that song. It's like, what show Zodiac son? You know You knowice from Save to Last Dance. That's why it really popped off. Is that we really did? Y It's just like how it's just like how the Joe Button song was in one movie pump it up. U Da, Da. I think it's the first step to the street. Right. Oh I know that, but his song Fire was in mean Girls. Fire is in meaning Girls. You're right. You're right. There c there were certain movie usages that made these songs ubiquitous, but I will say You're right. It's an absolutely fantastic, you know, use of faith and about two other songs. It's got the engine engine. number nine. New York's it. It my dream balls on the gu. Pick it up p it up p it up pp. Who's fucking tonight? you know, like you had all that stuff. We have gotten off topic, but we're talking about big club hits and one big club hit was of course the fantasy remix. featuring ODB after the break. We'll be back with more on this song and We will talk about her collaborate on this song. I'm talking about Aon unique, dirtiest man alive, Dert McGurt DJ Coolleie Hot, Joe Bananas, the specialist, dirt dog. O. Cirus. O Cirrus, Dirty McDersstner, Big baby Jesus himself The old, dirty, doggy I had to say it like that because that's how he says on this song.. presumably for radio He's just to his friends, old dirty Bastard, and we're going to talk about that. Russell After the break No it's Russell Jones to his mom, but he's ODB and we'll be right back Welcome back to one song. Now I want to change things up a little bit want to tell a story the story of how old Eirie Bastard got on this track and how he worked on this track. Now The recording of fantasy. Like we said, record label wasn't happy with it. Tommy Matola, her husband at the time not happy about it, but Mariah was like, I want to do this song specifically with my drunk uncle. dirty bastard. and true to form Uh, they set up some record time. And old Dirty Bassard showed up three hours late and apparently had been drinking all day Oh my gosh. I was going to ask if he was inebriator for real He was not sober. Y instincts were right on. He showed up and one of the first things he said was he needed Moet and Newports And it was apparently because it was three hours late, it around midnight You know, this is I feel like in New York now you could find Mette in Newports at midnight. but maybe in nineteen ninety five, that wasn't a thing. So they tell the interns who I guess are all white to go get him awayet newport. It's like we probably can't find that. He tells them that they he said, y'all also white devils, y'all don't want black people to have So the White deevils went to go get more newports They searched for an hour. they came back with Heineikinens. He was irate. I gotta say, if I'm oldld Dirty Bastard, I'm kind of I kind of I'm kind of team oldld Dirty Bastard on that like Heinenekin is not Newport,. He apparently took the Newport. I mean, he took the Heinenekin'. we'll never find out they found the Newports. He took the Heineneken, he smashed it on the ground. He was like, all right, let's work. records the famous line, Miia Mariah go back like babies and pacifiers. which is just an amazing song just an amazing lyric for any song, but he accomplished that line. shouldhould we hear that line from the song? G for it All right, here we go M Mariah, go And that was it He recorded that line and he's like, I need to sleep. He lays down and goes to sleep apparently for a whole hour Um, everybody' just sitting around waiting him for you know, to wake up and do some more Older he gets up. He records the next line Old dirty dog, no liar, keep your fantasy hot life fire. and then went back to sleep for another forty five minutes At some point in the evening, he tells the engineer he's like, Hey, I hope you got your Sit right. Because I ain't doing it twice I have a theory about that. I have a theory he wasn't actually talking to the engineer. I think that was his next verse. Make sure you got your set right because I ain't doing it twice. It almost rhymes too much. I think he was should kept that. think he was still doing rhyming. They should have put it in. Some bars. He goes to sleep again. This time, apparently he kicked off one shoe and the whole studio smelled terrible. There was some other stuff that he might have done. I'm not going to go into it. You can find the story online. I don't want y'all to tune out. But like it's a mess. And by the way, the whole time Tommy Matola and Mariah are calling every hour in the hour asking, how's it going? Like is it going well? L what are you recording So It took them all night to record That one verse And if you listen to it, you hear that his voice feels very punched in. L it's not like one continuous take. L there's a reason why like even some lines like I'm a little bit country, I'm a little bit rock and roll. I'm soul to soul. L if you listen to that part in particular, like the lyrics are like lapped over each other, not for effect, but just because They just didn't line up. Just one idea at a time. Yeah, it was just one ide did at. done But you know, when you write, me and Marai go back like baby and fast. You take nap. Listen listen, L nap. He might have known in his brain, you know what? This is good enough to be a part of hip hop history. Yeah So he leaves the studio finally play the track for Maran and T Matlla and this story doesn't go the way you think it's going to go. They loved it. fromrom the first time they heard it, they knew they had a hit So They said, hey, that was really good. Can you get oldlder Bastter to come back and add more cities? We like when he said New York is in the house. Um, there' The engineers are like, no, I don't know if you know this, but like he's going to charge us the same amount all like fifteen thousand dollars, which is a lot of money back in nineteen ninety five, but maybe not that much for him Mariah Kerry song They're like no, no, no, we need more cities. We need more towns. like we love that part. So He gets another fifteen grand to come back. Sout to Coreory Sumers, by the way, the guy who told this story because he was there that night. He came back and he added more cities. That's when he adds Japan because if it sounds like he's just making' just throwing out places, well, there's a reason for that because, you know, he's just in the studio And by the way, when he came back to rec those other places He was apparently like hung over and tired So he didn't fall as sleep a bunch of times, but you're working with an even more grumpy old dirty bastard. So that to me part of the genius of oldld Dirty. like, you know, you hear about Hank Williams, you know, when you hear about country. you hear about oh, they had to give Keith Richards a whole new set of blood because his blood was so tainted. like they had to like these are stories told about other people, but I feel like we don't know all the stories about our friends in hip hop in the same way. And to me, this story is like I don't know if I want to be there that night but I'm happy that it happened I'm happy that a man could be so free as to insult the interns, smash a bottle of beer on the, make people wait while he sleeps, subject them to smells and then take all night to record one of the shortest verses, I think on a feature that you're ever going to come across, But you know what? it worked for him, it worked for old Dirty I mean, like, I don't know. is there a part of you as an artist who I'm not you seem like a very good individual But is there a part of you that secretly likes toate would love to be just unhinged, just unhinged for once. I am am unhinged, but I'm not unhinged in a way. at least to my experience from myself because I have to live with myself, but also people around me You know, then not yes, man C. I can be unhinged with my transparency and my honesty. Y. but it's never too like tru hurt somebody's feelingsing. I'm jo likeike I'm a joker. you know if I can find some areas where we can we can joke and throw a little reed in there like that's that's keepy you're not hurting anybody? No. No, and I think that listen, the people here at One saaw, we do not promote bullies, so to spe everyvery now and then, it's just something fun. I think I enjoyed this. I think because honestly, this is getting really real I think because I am just generally such a polite person that the same way like British humor is always based on people being loud and saying things obnoxious that they would never say because they're also But I feel like sort of the same way like it's fun for me to hear these stories about O Dirdty Bastard and Rick James just being unhinged. like not Rick at all. You know what I mean? Rick James was a wholen level of unhinged James Brown was another one, especially how they fire people. I mean, I love to me, I just I love O Dirty Bastard. I think he was one of the most innovative rappers of all time. We're talking today about fantasy with Mariah Cery, but like we're talking about the same guy did got your money, You know what I'm saying? Shimmy shimy y Shimm me shim me. I mean You know, nowadays we look at old dirty and we think, man, maybe Maybe maybe we needed to be better friends. Maybe we needed to help this man. But what do you think about that? I mean, like what do you think about old dirty' you know What made him great and, you know What's his legacy in hip hop think In my mind, his his his legacy just Being a human being is how many different dynamics there are these different nuances. to how our brains process things, the psychology behind Um, things that we've experienced and how we cope with it. I think that's right. I think that's right. Yeah. and also just not having maybe not having access to, you know therapy Exactly that time. This is this is not at a time where black people are unpacking things. Let's unpack That's so tr. you know, we didn't you know, so it's this it's the role of like, you know, where was hip hop on mental illness? Why I think that We weren't deffinitely weren't talking about it back then. You know what I mean? Like the idea of a therapist, you know, Yeah, we were still we were still a little bit ways from that Totally I mean, and, you know, again, I think to a certain extent You know, I just love a good story. I mean, the idea that this guy was a fugitive But he was still showing up at concerts You know When they dropped the W in two thousand He was already on the run from he had like literally run out of rehab He was out of rehab in Pasadia, California and they said we got to take it down to to the court K De just said, I'm not doing that and ran away And like they said, well, we don't have, you know, this is not a rehab where we, you know, restrain anybody. L he just liter ran away. And so for the next couple of months, he was showing up at concerts showing up at record release albums. He doesn't get caught until he's in Philadelphia signing autographs at a McDonald's drive through And they said that the crowd got so big with people coming up to get signatures from ODB that the cops didn't know who was over there causing a commotion. They just went over there because they were like, who are all these people hanging out McDonald's drive through when they figured out that he had bench warrants. That was when they took him back in. But I mean, like to me, this is who Old Dirty Bastard was.. And his cousin, Thereiza said, my cousin was a genius. He was like Old Dirty Bastter was a genius. And to a certain extent, I feel that way. I feel like he was untethered by social norms. and I'm not obviously he did some things that you know are not excusable or funny you know, just from an artistic point of view There's a part of me that respects that sort of wild man that he was, You know what I mean? So where do we land draw this Smer Carry like do we You know, what do you as a performer you know, takeake away from this artist and this time I think she's a an artist to definitely study Oh from the from the ways in which she has honed her skills Yeah and not only the singing in the writing as well Um, so Yeah, and also T a listen to Luth to see where those where those worlds meet because there are also other ways in which Artists, like I said, influence and inspire each other I love how you are You know, not afraid to champion yourself. I actually truly appreciate that because I think sometimes You know, we want credit for being like, you know, humble and not sort of putting our names to the conversation on stuff. But quite frankly, there is so much music, there's so much TV. there's so much culture out there that sometimes if you're not actively out pushing yourself like it's really easy to get lost in the mix. Absolutely. That being said who are you know, they don't have to be They could be current, they could be in the past. Who are like the three artists that you know, you feel I'm not even going to say inspire you you know, make you like, oh, yeah, you know, like, this is this is why I'm an artist. I want to make something that makes someone feel the way I feel when I listen to blank Okay, I can actually just give you my Mount Rushmore. No Rushmore And it's of Ladies gentlemen and then we have personality and the foundation of which that those things sit on So on the lady side, we have Badu Phyllis Himmon Lisa Fisher and Sarah Vaugh. And of course I gott to give an honorable mention to Jill Scott and Lailla Hathaway. Then over here on the gentleman's side, we have B Slave, formerly known as the Gspel singer Tonay We have Rick James We have Nate Dahl And we have Luth. And then of course, as I honable mention over there, we have Philip Bailey of Earthwind and Fire. And we have Crash Cut Leaveon Bennett. If you don't know who that is, just go ahead and look him up. All right. That's'ious. it'll make sense. Okay. And then the personality side down here that that those two things sit on We have Little Richard Bugs, Bunny Babs, bunny We have Jim Carey specifically from liar liar Ace Venture and the mask.. My parents took me to go see the mask at the movie theater. Who's Babs Bunny? B Babs Bunny. Okay, Okay, so that's from that's from Tiny Tunes. Yeah. And so we got Busta and Babs Bunny. thoseose are like the grandchildren, like of just the new bunnies that are coming up. And Babs is me and I am bab. And then of course, we step into this world Ricky S smiley. Dave Chappelle. Yeah. RrNS J Monique. Uh Stephven Wright Bo Burnham, Jamie Fox. There you go. Like these are I'm also inspired by comedians. I was going to say you have almost as many more of comedy Yeah think. Yeah. Yeah. so it's I grew I grew up on that. you know, so it's You know, what's funny, there's actually some overlap in your list because when I was talking to Nil Brennan, He said I knew Dave Chappelle was great because He seemed like Malcolm X and Bugs Bunny had a child. And I was like, yeah, I absolutely see that. The whole way tr. And think We talked about Mariah doing sort of pop R and B and then becoming people who was merging it with hip hop where RMB goes next. None of us can say for sure, but I can say that this group of people here feel like you absolutely are a part of that future And we want to thank you for coming through today. So thank you so much, Daran Where can we find you on the internet? You wanted to I'm so glad you asked. So you can find me on the TikToks and the Instagrams and the Twitters. Listen youram your mama named your Twitter and that's what I'm going call you. So Yeah if you saybody what's the handle them? Yep Duraranne Bernard, D U Ara A N D B E Ara N A Aura Aura. And that's also my website as well. You can find merch. We also got socks. Make sure you get a little bit. Hey, we got come on. my face on it I always wearar I'm wearing socks with a face right now.'s Melle Tubes. Michelle Obama. Yeahace. I will buy some faceace socks brothers. They're called the Little bits. And we got Mgo butter too for all the dry faceed defers I to make sure that you know you stay moisturized. We don't want you out here in these streets looking crazy. I feel personally attacked? Listen, listen, listen, but I'm also going my hand the solution. Okay. I'm gonna state the problem, but in that same breath, we gonna provide the solution. You know, that's what you're gonna to learn about me I'll tell a joke but I never tell you lie. I got off a plane Lcture helped me in this thing All right, well, I'm producer DJ and songwriter Luxury. That's LUXX URY on the internet And I'm actor, writer Director is sometimes older to DJ Diialo Riddle. You can find me at Diialo DIA LLO on Instagram or Dallo Riddle on TikTok And this is one song. We will see you next time. aby come on