Peter Thiel and AI Dystopia

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're gonna find out what this sound is. So go out and buy a Dell, they're great. Right after this ad . Could AI help you do more of what you love? Workday is the AI platform for HR and finance that actually knows your business. We help you handle the have-to-dos so you can focus on the can't wait to-dos. It's a new workday. Whatever bike you're looking for from mountain to road, either pedal powered or electric, we've got what you want ready for super fast delivery. Quality gear at prices you won't find in your average bike shop. BikesHomeline.com, ride more for less. Most people don't realize how much of their personal information is being bought and sold every day. Data brokers are making billions pulling details about you from public records in the internet, then packaging and selling it, usually without your consent. That's how your information lands in the hands of scammers, spammers, even stalkers. 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We could start with the picture of the UFC Starg ate being erected No, I I was invited to the I was going to go on Wednesday, but they closed it out very quickly. They made it and Jim Dolan's great guy. He's uh as you know, owns and in charge of Madison Square Garden. He's having a good year . Uh boy, what a team. They won all their games. They really have some great players. I think I'll be going to one of the games. Yeah, I was invited by uh numerous people and Jim. And I think I'll be going, it's great. Great to see it. The Knicks have really they've really suffered for years. I think you guys are wrong on that one. You're giving him too much power on this Knicks thing. Trump wants to go to the Knicks game, have at it, big boy. Who cares? Like there's a lot of things we should go after him for and fact check him on. But if that guy wants to go to the Knicks game, do it. That's correct. But then I mean some people can't resist being like, f you suck, you suck. Then let him. No, they should be focusing their anger on Shea Gildus Alexander and how he's pretending to fall. Yes. That's where all of the focus should be. All of the most powerful thing is dialed in of the entire city. Should be like you should be. I don't think they're gonna care. They're gonna be focused on the game. I actually think that the president is gonna find himself frustrated because when he thinks he's gonna walk into this rocky, like, yeah, people are gonna be like, move out the way, I'm here to see Jalen Brunson. I think that's gonna be his experience. But giving him more power around the should he, shouldn't he? Who cares? This is about the New York Knicks who haven't been there in twenty seven years. This is somebody that's healthy. This is somebody that processes life in a healthy way. Unlike me. You know? I've got it. I'm deranged. He's a boy from Queens. He might actually want to go. Well , I find that very hard to believe. Okay, you know what? So the Knicks are donating 7 50 tickets, I believe. To the finals? To the finals. God, you hate to hand it to Jim Dol an . What's a better case for Jim Dolan to sell the Knicks than hey, it's never gonna get better. Go out in a blaze of charity and goodwill as the city is riding on your behalf. Is there an unlimited amount of mega rich New Yorkers who want to buy the Knicks? I mean, this is this is what I want to discuss. So like this, but like if o asset. If owning a sports team is the ultimate, ultimate vanity pro ject for a super wealthy person. Owning the Knicks is like, oh it's the number one most valued asset. I would argue. For sure. Because by the way, the n MSG is a sellout, regardless whether the Knicks are good. Mm-hmm. It's its gate attendance is is always uh in inelastic demand because it's New York City. And now you have the fact that they're actually good. But even when they're not good, it's super cool. Yes. But the people who show up at the garden, right? Those faces that you see that Stephanie Rule actually recognizes because it's all of these masters of the universe, these captains of industry. One of the reasons, Tim, Tim Miller, thank you for being here by the way. Good to be here, baby. Steph anie Rule. Love being here. Yeah. Well, Tim. And it kind of enjoys their company, which is a big difference between me and Stephanie. I talking about sports team ownership and being in corporate boxes is the thing that makes me feel the most anti-capitalist. To to this example, my friend has the box at the LSU Tigers game and always invites me. And I'm like, if I'm gonna go to Baton Rouge on a Saturday night and have some whiskey and watch a football game, I wanna be with the people. I wanna be with I wanna be among the people. I want somebody to spill their beer on me. I want to high-five a child that's up past his I want to cuss at the other team and say STTDB uh, you know, and I don't want to sit around and like have people asking me like what about the tariffs. In a fleece vest. I don't want to hear about the tariff s in a fleece vest. You know? And like that that is kind of your world though. And you're good at navigating it though, because they'll bring up the tariffs and then you'll make a little off color joke and like you'll have a tariffs take. You you navigate it very well. Wow, how did that scouting report feel to you? Um, I don't think that's the case. I I don't think I just make it. I I don't think I've ever made an off-color joke. Um I the funny thing about I would actually say corporate boxes, you see when they've built all these new arenas , they're trying to make corporate boxes closer to the people. Cause there's nothing worse, right? Like if you think about going to the coolest restaurant out there but saying we got the private room, it blows. Because it's like you're at this amazing place with the best energy ever and you're sitting in an insulated box. So I think you're talking about two different things. The fan experience is less exciting and less fun if you're sitting in an isolated area , but you're also making the point, if you're going to a game, if you're going to a concert, you're there to experience that art, that sport, that live event, you sure as sh don't want to talk about Ebita and profit markets. I don't want to Ebitah ever actually ever . Is that a word? Well, it's an acronym. Yes. But the idea that Steph is the type of person who goes to the Milk In Conference, in which there are lots of NBA owners and lots of billionaires, and there is this conversation around, so we are winning right now. We being this non-monolithic class of extraordinarily connected, wealthy, and informed people in the world of finance. I have to say that that way. Finance. Steph, part of the reason I wanted to have you here with me and Tim is because the mentality of these folks who are at that conference, this global conference , the people who are in these MBA arenas and elsewhere. How do you describe them to people who are not decades steeped in finance? I think the thing that's amazing right now is the deference and latitude they give the president. And sort of before now, one could easily argue part of what makes America so exceptional is that we respect the rule of law, is that we have three separate but equal branches of government. And you've got all these business leaders over the last few decades, more and more, who have spoken out publicly, who say, you know, like we're leaders in culture, in business, it's our fiduciary to explain the way the world works. And suddenly the cat got their tongue. Because now you've got a president who continues to push boundaries and blow through things. I mean, we we do a segment on our show, White House for Sale. There's an unlimited amount of content. It's so hard to pick in this term. We're long past the days of let me tell you the stocks that Paul Pelosi traded yester day and and let's talk about care uh you know closing the carried interest loophole. That'd be nice though. We could still do that. I'd love to talk about all those things. And we always have, but but the latitude they're giving this administration, and when you talk to people, part of it is they're intoxicated by the access they have. They can call this president, they can call Howard Lutnick and get what they want and get what they need. What's amazing to me, is that they think they're going to get some sort of long-term loyalty from this president. He shows it day in and day out. Whatever serves him today, great. I mean, look at John Cornyn. John Cornyn. Look at Bill Cassidy sitting there with egg on their face. Uh what killed me two weeks ago was when Bill Cassidy, a minute after he loses his primary, is like, oh by the way, I'm not feeling good. I'm not feeling good about that war in Iran. Really, Bill? What changed in the last forty-eight hours about the situation in Iran, other than you losing. Right. These are senators, United States Senators. A business leader would, though they won't make the argument out loud, they would say, Who do they have to answer to? Right? They're fiduciary responsibility. They need to make sure they're their customers are still going, you know, doing business with them, their employees aren't quitting, and their shareholders are happy. So they would argue that that trifecta is their most important triangle and it doesn't behoove them to speak out against the president. So cat got my tongue makes sense. But then last week I was in a cross-country flight to California. That's how that worked. I was stuck sitting there watching cable news, which is great. We honor cable news, we're on cable news, but like personally, I usually don't watch like hours and hours in a row, right? But I was like, No, you just watch eleven to twelve ones. Yeah, I just watch eleven to twelve on stuff and then whatever's linked to nine to eleven AMC. That's whatever's right before me. Yes. And the Pablo text that he's gonna be on. But that's usually that's about it. Um and so I'm watching C N B C and and it was just by accident that it was the day that Andrew Wassorkin is interviewing Bezos. Mm-hmm. And the cat got you're telling, like I said, I understand. If Bezos is just like, you know, it's kinda crazy over there. I've got this, I've got all these businesses, I've got the new wife, I've got the Venice wedding, and like I've got my yacht, and I'm just gonna focus on that. You know, that couldn't be me really. I I like to I like to yap, but I I underst I would understand that. But he didn't do that. He goes on with Andrew Ross and he's like, you know, Trump's really mellowed, I think. No, no, no. And you gotta hand it to him. He's more disciplined. He's more disciplined. I'm comparing him to his first term. And I think he is a a a more mature, more disciplined version of himself than he was in his first term. And you know the so he is again I've I've worked with all the presidents, I will work with all the presidents, uh you know, and uh I hope to do that going forward if they'll have me. Uh but it's we we need our business leaders to provide input into the uh the administration reg,ardless of who the president is. I wanna good ideas, and when he has good ideas, you really have to hand it to him. And I'm like, what why are you doing like that is humiliating? But but just uh just because this is the decoding I wanna do. In your view, Steph, when Jeff Bezos is saying stuff like that, he is doing it because he is there also transacting. Or maybe he agrees. Or maybe he really likes Trump. So I would say a lot of them like that they have someone to call. I think a lot of them would say they like that they share an idea and maybe they get something out of it. But I think Jeff Bezos uh is unique in that to me, his biggest, most important business or gaping hole is Blue Origin. Okay. Blue Origin is pun intended, light years behind SpaceX , right? This is costing gazillions of dollars. They don't have nearly the amount of government contracts or relationship with the government that SpaceX does. And so he needs to make sure he's in good standing with the president, right? Days after the Melania documentary debuted, right? Brett Ratner produced, Amazon paid tens of millions of dollars. Days after, who rolls up to Blue Origin headquarters, Pete Hagseth, with Jeff Bezos shaking his hand. Yeah. Right? Remember. And Bezos talked about how that was a good business decision in the same interview. And that wasn't quite right, actually. It did lose 59 million, which might which might be nothing but Bezos ? If you th in in his mind, right? During Trump's first term, Jeff Bezos was a target of Donald Trump, right? Amazon was a target of Donald Trump. Bezos was a target of Donald Trump. I actually think it's why he continues to own the Washington Post. When people are like, he doesn't want to own the Washington Post, he's not interested. He knows that the Washington Post and the media is so important to Trump. And so to be in good standing with Trump, I would say in his mind, being in the safe zone with Trump is good for him and good for his business. Now you might say he's one of the richest men in the world. We could lose our democracy. We could lose our country. Doesn't that trump all of this? And that's a totally fair argument to be made. And to me, the other the psychology, the thing I'm more interested in, because you understand the money, I understand what these guys are motivated by. That's why they're the richest people in history. But I, you know, these guys are all so sensitive to criticism from everybody besides Trump. And it is so I hate to use the P word for the second time on the podcast, but we can say it again thanks to you know Donald Trump winning. Um that's what the finance guy said. We can say the R-word, we can say again. It makes me feel like that they're b . It's just like you could tell how sensitive it was to the Washington Post criticism and that interview with Andrew Ross Sorkin. It's like all of these meme If I do my job right the the value to soci ety and civilization from my for-profit companies will be much, much larger than the than the good that I do with my trouble giving. And I got very defensive in his backup. Donald Trump spent four years like making fun of how he looked, like giving him a bad nickname. And now he grovels back to him. Like what's the point of having fuck you money? But the thing that I think is most immediately actionable when it comes to who's even persuadable anymore, what should people be aware of economically in terms of just like the big headlines? It's the fact that we're talking on the same morning, Thursday, May 28th, when ProPublica releases this story. Quote: The White House intervened to get a $6 20 million deal for a company tied to Donald Trump Jr. And this is where I just read some ProPublica . When the Pentagon announced a $620 million loan last year to a small North Carolina startup linked to Donald Trump Jr., defense officials and the company tried to tamp down suspicions of cronyism The president's oldest son said through a spokesperson that he wasn't involved. The Pentagon said Trump Jr. played no role in the record setting deal. The startup's founder told reporters that his company, Vulcan Elements, received no political favoritism. But interviews and defense department records reviewed by ProPublica show that the request to loan hundreds of millions of dollars to the firm linked to Trump Jr. was made by Peter Navarro, a White House advisor to President Donald Trump and a friend of Trump Jr.'s. And the reason all of this is particularly, I would say, relevant to what the public attention might be trained on , is that there have been lots of stories about corruption and quid pro quoing and transactionality, but this particular story is apparently the first time that the awarding of a contract from a federal agency has been directly linked to White House intervention. People from the White House apparently , according to sources in the story, said, quote, we have to get this done. And Peter Navarro, for those not familiar, is also a guy who appeared on Don Jr.'s show on Rumble to say this . Your father has done more and I guess it's uh nine months now than uh presidents do in two terms. Well, Peter, uh as always, uh thank you very much for what you're doing in there. Thank you for what you've you know done to yourself and to your family standing up for us. Guys, make sure to check out I went to prison so you won't have to by senior counsel for trade Peter Navarro. Uh he's just a great friend, a great patriot, great American. Uh Peter, thanks very much. I look forward to seeing you again soon, buddy. Thanks my brother for for being there uh in in my hardest uh hardest of times you know when my back was against the wall uh you you had my back brother and uh it's my honor my friend thank you but peter navarro just for those who are unfamiliar with his work, how should we remind people who this guy is? So I'm gonna quote without naming the person's name, a member of Trump's first term who said at best , Peter Navarro is a wack-a-doo and a kook. Peter Navarro was discovered by Jared Kushner during Trump's first term because he did a Google or an Amazon search looking for someone , anyone out there whose views on trade and tariffs were in line with Donald Trump's. And after digging and climbing and going through and around the book from like nineteen ninety seven or something. Correct. In nineteen ninety seven, where in the book he quotes fake economists who are named like if you take the name Peter Navarro and mix up the letters, th that's the names of the people who were he had fake quotes in the book. Ron Vara. There you go. Ron Varra. Ron Vara. Okay. Navarro, Ron Vara. So they then bring Peter Navarro into the first Trump administration. And let me be clear, he's an economist. Did he see did you see him work with Steve Minution? Steve Minucin said, huh, uh absolutely not. Did you see him work with Gary Cohn? Nope, he did not. They had to relegate him to go work in the commerce department under Wilbur Ross, and Wilbur may or may not have known that Peter Navarro was even there. The problem isn't necessarily in many of these cases the government getting involved in businesses, and in some cases it is. The problem is bet your bottom dollar that you check and somehow the Trump family or close associates are making money hand over fist in it. Yeah. And and I've heard from people in business world who who just are like,, uh you know f it, we decided to make Don Jr. a strategic advisor because we figured like that could help us get a government contract. Like this is happening. Don Jr. is an advisor to both Calci and Polymarket. And the administration's trying to interfere. Minnesota is trying to to ban prediction markets in their state. Back when I was a Republican, that's how things were as laboratories of democracy. If red states want to do one thing, blue states want to do another, that was, you know, pretty essential to what the worldview was. And now the administration is trying to intervene to prevent Minnesota from passing a law for their state. Well, I wonder why. Maybe it's because the president's son is issues. When when I was at NBA All Star Weekend, they had a tech conference the the day leading into the weekend and I interviewed Cal Shi, Polymarket, FanDuel, DraftKings uh uh on stage and before I can't I can't remember whether it was Polymarket or Cal she, but it was someone on their team. And I brought up um like so it was offstage, but I brought up like so, you know, Don Jr. advising both your companies and the person was like, oh, he didn't invest much money. I'm like, no sh herlock. I didn't think he wrote you guys a big fat check. Like, no one thought that. Yeah. Whatever you've given, whatever equity stake you've given him, whatever advisory role, I don't think he's had to reach into his pocket one single day. What you guys are doing is paying him, is giving him some upside. So you get no regulation and a clear path to build your mega business, which is exactly what's happen Aaron Powell Can we add one more story that was from last night that I have to get off my chest me and stuff we're talking about on the way in? Please. As you follow the account Unusual Whales. I do. Unusual Whales is, you know, not you know, I I don't know if they have the same vetting process that ProPublica does, but uh they've done some good analysis and we're kind of like a key account in like prompting like the Pelosi tracker and this idea that too many you know um members of Congress are investing. Which is true. But the story about Trump's investing that that came out, I I um my colleague Joe Perdickon like uh you know, crunched the numbers on this. Trump has invested more money this year in the stock market , then all members of the House and Senate did combined last year in 12 months, right? We're this was just for the first quarter. So in the first quarter of this year, Trump's invested more than the entire Congress did last year. So if you're concerned about Congress investing and the stock market and the corruption, you would think you would be concerned about Donald Trump. Here's this one from last night. Dell, and and you might know that Michael Dell himself um put money into what is it, the Trump The Baby Bonds. Trevor Burrus A huge amount of money that w that can serve a huge port that that would be great for lots of people. So these are the Trump accounts in which he's going to give twenty five million eligible children. But again, in a free country, you know, you would call them baby bonds. You'd call them something else. You wouldn't name them after dear leader. They're not Kim Jong un bonds or Jimmy. And let me tell you, so when I ask people like in the investment community have good Ebita without putting the president's name and face on everything that they did throughout all of history. So that that's actually not true. Anyway, here's the Dell story. Dell just won a five year nine point seven billion dollar Pentagon software agreement for the US military. Now, I don't know about you guys. Maybe the Dell is the best company for that. I haven't used any Dell products in quite a while now. I have to imagine there are probably other competitors in the space. Um, before they got that $9.7 billion dollar contract, Trump bought Dell multiple times since February 10th for more than five million. So Trump has put more than five million into Dell right before they got the contract. And in case you're thinking, ah, you know, maybe that's a coincidence, maybe you know, Trump's financial advisor is focused on that at the blind trust. On May 8th, right before the contract uh was received, Trump said So go out and buy a Dell, they're great . Dude, you're getting a Dell. Not the singer. Dell, the stuff It's like and the unusual rails, right? It's unusual. I think it's a little more than unusual. But it's it's right there. It's text. But to now complete the circle, right? So this deal with the rare earth's Vulcan, which is based in North Carolina, estimates of its valuation grew tenfold after the deal was announced and Trump Jr., Don Jr.'s venture capital firm, took a stake of undisclosed size in Vulcan about three months before the Pentagon announced the deal. So this is not a good idea on his honeymoon. He just went up to the presidential suite after that. But but my point being that this is not merely uh do the savor for my friend. It's like they're actively profiting in ways that anybody who wants to say, and I I get the instinct, all these MS Now people crying wolf is just sort of like the wolf is on the table right now, and it's just like showing you its portfolio, and it's like, I don't know. So what are we waiting for? And honestly, like think about all the coverage Pelosi got. I just I was looking at the Dell thing last night and I was like, media criticism gets kind of tired at this point, but just I you know, if if this was Mitt Romney or if this was like, you know, Nancy Pelosi , it really would be leading the nightly news type thing. It could be leading David Muir to be the front page of the newspaper. There'd be investigators. There'd be follow ups. Like, wait a minute, how did Dell get the contract? Like, why did you say invest in them? And it's like Trump has now created this bubble where it seems like he's very public and it seems like he's doing a lot of media stuff that he has all of these like news max and you know Mike Lindell TV people ask him questions. So he doesn't get questions from real reporters. There's a lot of other news crazy happening, like you know, the war in Iran, it's et cetera. Or him going to the NBA files. It's hard to decide which corruption to pick. The idea though that people don't know or don't care, I don't think it's true. I think the investment community is sort of like they're making so much money and it's working out so well. They're just like, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. And and they're the ones who are panicked, they're like, uh, they're these crazies like Mam Dami who's coming for us, blah, blah, blah. I would argue, no, it's the mega wealthy getting mega wealthier, right? If you take the Forbes 200 at the end of the Bind administration, and obviously they were really rich. They were on the Forbes 200. And look at their net worth now. It has exploded. That's not the case for most other people. And so what's amazing to me is they kind of look at this anti-capitalism sentiment. Like these people are crazy. Like the anti-capitalist, the eat the rich sentiment is so real and visceral in this country. Right? Like I lived in New York and I worked on Wall Street during the the Occupy Wall Street. This is that tenfold. And I think what they don't realize is as much as you like making all this money during the Trump administration, the more this mega grift is happening, the more I want to say one thing before Tim Rants, which is the notion that they're coming for capitalism, the people truly dismantling capitalism are these people right now. Capitalism requires competition and the rule of law as a set of regulatory governance practices. And when the people are like, this sh is not the free market. It's not capitalism. This is like uh classic corrupt autocrat shit. Yeah. And when people come for capitalism, it's because you people did not actually defend it. They're turning me into anything. This is it in a nutshell, right? Like I love free markets, I'm as pro-capitalism as they come. What's actually transpiring isn't that Now more people than ever can bring in their bill for a better deal at Verizon. Got AT into your T-Mobile? We got you. Xfinity or Spectrum? You too. So tell your friends, your family, your quirky neighbor Jeff. Grab your megaphone and yell it from the rooftop. Get a better deal at Verizon. Because chances are anyone in shouting distance is included. Bring in your ATT T-Mobile Xfinity or Spectrum bill and we'll give you a better deal on the best network. Come by Verizon today. Best network based on Rootmetric's best overall mobile network performance US second half twenty twenty five. All rights reserved must provide recent consumer mobile bill in the name of the person redeeming the deal, additional terms, conditions, and restructuring supply. Disfruta más formas de ahorrar en Ralfs como precios bajos en todo pasillo. Descarga la app de Ralfs, elige tus cupones digitales semanales y ahorra aún más. Además, ganas puntos en combustible para ahorrar hasta un dólar por galón. En Ralps, encuentras más formas de ahorrar y más recompensas en cada compra. Ahorrar en grande a diario es fácil con ahorros y recompensas. Ralps en SoCow más de 150 años. Los ahorros pueden vari ar por estado. Aplican resecciones de combustible. Ve los detalles en el sitio. This is Justin Richmond from Broken Record. Embrace the Haze with Hazy Little Thing from Sierra Nevada. The headliner when they played at the bar or stopped your friend's mid festival to look at the stars, if you're up for whatever the night brings, then embrace the haze with hazy little thing. Hazy, citrusy, smooth. Juicy but not sweet, hoppy but not bitter, bursting with fruit flavor and aroma. There's a reason it's America's best selling hazy IPA. Sierra Nevada brews hazy little thing with the purest ingredients for finest quality in every sip. Velvety smooth and handcrafted with cit ra and mosaic hops, because when you're living in the moments that matter, it matters which beer. Embrace the haze with hazy little thing by Sierra Nevada. Enjoy responsibly . I think the point is, yes, there is and has been corruption in government under Joe Biden under, every presidency. But right now we're talking about true tonnage in a way that is unprecedented. It's like people don't know what a billion is relative to a million. Even that very basic math question is like hard to fully grasp. And in the same way, we're looking at this again, this giant wolf on the table who is f stealing all this money and laughing. Allegedly. And laughing is everybody is just not only complicit but also profiting. Okay, so then here's the question. Tell me the name of the Democrat who would like to be in leadership or who is running for office , who is writing an op-ed, or who is coming on television and saying , This is what's happening. It's deeply unethical, it's anti-democratic, it is currently legal. Here's what I am going to do . Here's what the Democratic Party is going to do if you vote for us in the midterms and we regain control. Tell me the name of the Democrat who's laid that out for us. I'm not sh just really quick. I'm not sure it's all legal. I mean some of this is But I'm even giving them the benefit of the doubt, right? And say right, I'm I'm trying to be like as generous as I am in this, right? I'm just saying it isn't ac it isn't actually legal for the UAE to bribe the president's. So let's go in further. Let's formal. Fine. Then let's say this is illegal. And come November, if you vote for me, this is what we're going to do. Look, this is gonna be the job of the oversight committee. I Robert Garcia was really good on Epstein. I think it's gonna be his job in the House. Who is the big name Democrat that is like taking this on? Like there isn't one, and they should, and I don't understand why. And I think it's really their job in 2027. How to persuade is the question. How do you message this? I need to say, by the way, he's not gonna be in charge forever. And if you're one of these f rare earth companies or if you're Dell and you think that you're gonna have a government contract in twenty twenty nine, well, you've got to come turn over all of your documents right now. So JP Morgan was one of the only massive companies that didn't write a big check for the ballroom. And Jamie Diamond said publicly on the record, I'm not going to write a check for the ballroom because when there's a new administration, they will come for me because this is I I don't know if he said bribery, but he said something along the lines of this will not pass the sniff test. I don't want to touch it. Life is long. This person won't be president forever. Moments after he said that is probably when Trump said, I'm suing you. Well, but this is the whole thing has like a spirit Halloween after October 31st kind of vibe. It's like everyone knows that this is the last. days It kind of feels that way. And those who are not acting as such are trying to get all these discounts on these costumes that they may never wear again. Thing though. It's like who is actually playing the longer game and who is merely taking the cash also available on this table? Yeah. And so we're left at this moment, and we don't even have time to really get into this, but we're left with a vacuum of moral, let alone legal and ethical leadership. And so it turns out that the literal Pope ends up being this person that everyone's like, is the Pope now a truly radical figure because he's talking about in some way regulating the masters of the universe? And it's like how refreshing that there is someone who is not bought and sold by this administration who is not sensitive to the same pressures as everyone else in this country, whether they try to figure out, okay, how do I, how do I increase my growth Pope is not radical. This whole idea that he's being painted as such is nonsensical. And so I think when people try to make that argument, you just have to take them back to facts. And that's the thing with quote unquote going after Trump. The truth isn't bias. It's just the truth. Some people just don't want to hear it. And so as it relates to what the Pope is trying to do, the Pope is trying to l raise our level of decency, right? The Pope devoted his adult life, most of his adult life, to serving the poor in Latin America, this boy from Chicago. And I just think we have to keep going back to just covering the facts and the truth because it's all right there. And what we just need to do is show it to the American people. And what the Democrats need to do is not just say Trump sucks. They need to say, here's the path forward and here's what we're gonna offer. Aaron Powell I love that the Libs are coming home to God. We could maybe use good. I mean Joe Biden was Catholic, but could have talked about it more early in his earlier in his career. The Dems could use a 2028 person that talks a little bit about God. Um Aaron Powell The Pope doesn't talk about God that much. What the Pope talks about is decency and living in service of others. Aaron Powell The interesting thing about the Pope, and I think why it's resonating um Pablo is like in part you're because of this moral vacuum of leadership, like we're going through this period where everybody feels like, screw it. Like why do I have to, you know, care about ethics? Like this, you know, the the the le masters of the universe, the big tech CEOs, the president of the United States, like I get'll away with whatever they want. Like maybe that should be my model. Like the Pope is offering this countermodel. The other thing that the Pope is doing is at some ways he likes quasi-codes liberal, but he's like, he's still the Pope, right? He's still pro life. You know, he's still what I mean. Yeah, he still, you know, has all these values that are that are small c conservative, right? Um whether it be family values or traditional values or eternal, you know, kind of going back He's literally the head of the Catholic Church. But that's the thing. It gives him, like, I do think that credibility that we have we have flattened everything, particularly in the last 10 years, into like, oh, you're a MAGA or you're an anti-MAGA. And it's like you you can dismiss the comments of somebody that is in the other tribe, even if they're making sense as part of this like never-ending, you know, online political forever war that we have. And like he's not part of it, right? He levitates above it. Largely the Magnifica Humanitas, which is the encyclical. Um it's about AI, and that's incredibly important and its own, of course, forever series. But the thing that I I loved that Pope Leo the Fourteenth wrote was quote Did you read all 22,000 words or did you have chat GPT summarize? I certainly did not have Chat GPT summarize it. I did the thing I did while going to Catholic school growing up, which is I selectively skimmed. Um but this is the part that I then wrote a whole essay on the one part that you just and and here is the part. The value of persons, however, does not depend on what they achieve or produce. There are rights that apply to everyone simply by virtue of being human. The various he goes on to write, the various kinds of job insecurity, fragmented career paths, and automation must not be evaluated solely in terms of efficiency, but in relation to the dignity of the worker, the right to sufficient remuneration, and the genuine possibility of participating in society, end quote. Which in a normal year, normal administration, kind of reads maybe cliche . But in this context, even we we just spent all this time talking about, talking not about profit and growth and the green arrow feels relatively radical. And like the fing Pope,. L likeike we don't need, I would say, for this to be a Democrat-owned issue. My hope is that this is maybe the most basic test that we are taking and also failing because it turns out the Pope is uh he's seizing on ground that people are but then let decency be the non-partisan issue that that that actually helps political leaders or people running for office or business leaders rise above this. And it's available for them to take, is my point. Yes. It's this this territory, Tim, is basically open for them. And they can do it by e even if they've made mistakes before. My as a as a as a fallen person myself, as a sinner, here's my favorite part. Here's my favorite part. As a sinner today, you don't have to be a sinner tomorrow. That's right. And Catholics like Pablo and I, here's the best thing. All cradle Catholics. All cradle Catholics. Um when was are you are you going to church on Sunday though? We'll talk about it after. For an algorithm, an error is a flaw to be corrected. For a person, however, an error can be a catalyst for profound change . 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