Championship Aftermath and Reflections

Welcome to Pablo Torere Finds out. I am Pablo Tore, and today we're going to find out What this sound is You haven't lived, David Sampson till you've been out rightight after the ad Are we going to call the in the sparding class Well On that note, on that very note that Dominique just muttered under his breath Um Are we calling this a sporting class or are we calling this something else It's It's your name on the show Well, and I know what I want Where Skippy? What would you call it? Skippy's on real vacation actually out there Are we call what it's called? I don't know. I feel like there has to be a frame of reference for it to be a vacation. If you're always on vacation, it's not That attitude. David Sampson to the Marlins, John Sipper, former president of VSPN. Dominqu Foxworth, former president of the NFLPA These are the characters and what we're calling this world what? Pablo. You've never been a president. of nothing. That's not true. Don't bring them to high schools. donon't bring them to a high resident. school de big team. Yeah an elected position I have a consistent resident Um, I have to get in line No All the sports media people who are there's only one It's not all There's just one. Who's the second What do you wait, you have information that you're not willing to disclose. There's another person in sports media other than younal He needs he needs more journalizing? He needs more evidence. He can't just start spewing stuff That's right. some credibility Dominique Is it you? Running for president Absolutely not We need to start closet. We need to start a summer school sporting class now, I think. thing Dominique was saying about what is it that management does and how do we value it and how do we praise it despite having great skepticism, at least from this chair about it brings us to one of the great parent character developments in the history of sports which concerns the owner of the N James Dolan. And I don't need to belabor all of the reporting and investigating we've done on this show, which is But youive and worthy of such attention. I dare say. The private surveillance state, the mismanagement of the team, is friendship with Donald Trump, all of the stuff we talk about it But the thing that happened, Dominique, which I want people to appreciate is that A podcast hosted by Jalen Brnton and Josh Hart, The account posted a long rumored video of James Dolan giving a pep talk that preceded the entire championship run And before we judge it, case you haven'ten it Here's just a taste of James Dolan motivating But right now, This time. as close as I had ever seen a team B going into the players What that would be to win a championship to get it r to have your ultimately at your numbers of an theaptors right, You will forever, ever be a part of New York City No matter where you go and what you do the rest of your lives, when people introduce you, even if you become the presresident of the United States, right They'll start off with MtyA champion twenty twenty six. So Dominique, I want to start with David. David, you grew up a Nicks fan you work directly for Your father in law be set formally' doing this formally. Okay, you probably read it wrong. Yeah But Your experience Among the billionaire class, a sports ownership class on the inside leads you to feel what when you hear James Dolan do something that has made him likable There were many of those Pablos, so here's what people are not reporting. twenty owners met their teams before the playoffs and one of them was right And this was a great speech. There's no question But owners meet the team When spring training starts or when the season starts They are sometimes doing it during the season once if something is going on bad, but motivating players is something that managers do and presidents and other teammates. I found the speech to be fantastic because it ended up being right And I've talked to players about sex before. I've talked to player players about obituaries before having the first line of your obituary written chplain the se thing in a second, but keep going. And well Sex is a thing. but anyway, I thought it was great Dominique. Now, does it make players run through a wall? Does it help them hit shots and win games? I don't believe any of that I never have But now as we look back, it was a great part of what happened Yeah, I mean the speech was fine. I think that the speech was more for him than it was for the players. I think generally, I'm not a big pre game speech guy or oftentimes I kind of stopp doing this and some people give me a hard time, but there used to be a stretch like when I was in NFL and recently out NFL P people who had like teenage sons who were not necessarily getting everything done. they were like, Hey, would you talk to them? And I would do it thinking that I was having some impact. And I kind of stopped doing that because I was like, e It's just a waste of my time and their time. L in order to have some sort of impact, you need to have like a real relationship with somebody and some sustained contact and like something invested in it. And it just feels like lip services that I'm just going to say, hey hit them books and you you're going to straighten out. I feel the same way about some of these speeches where it's like I mean, if Dolan's in there sweating with you and that tends to be the way it feels for me. It's like when there's players who out there with me or even coaches, if they have something invested and of course he has money invested, but it's different. When someone is in that room with you and they're talking about it and then you go out and You are too tired to do one more rep, but that person is doing another rep I guess that's where I have a hard time of like figuring out this value the value it adds is Are they actually do the thing that James Dolan thinks is going to hurt their chances. And then James Dolan face pops in their head. they're like, you know what tonight, I'm not gonna have sex. My man, Jimmy D was like, we got a sacrifice. Jimmy probably tonight But I ain't go do it because we got to win. I don't know, maybe. I'm sorry to ruin the fun, but I just No, no, no, no. this about. No,'s this speech, again, the rest of it, it's long. It's like fifteen or so minutes, maybe. him to talking extensively about how for the next ten weeks, you need a sacrifice. And I will give my interpretation as well of why of A, Y, he said up but B, Y was released this way Hard A why did he say it? I mean, there was to Diamond point a lot of We, but I could really U this This will change you and it will change me. And I kind of appreciated that level of transparency. when he's like, I This will change how I am thought of. I want this very badly. And in fact, just to that point Let's hear a little bit more from Mr. Dolan had this idea that Maybe you should give up sex for the next ten weeks You don't have to give up sex for the next thing F. P you U But Like Spartans, you know what Spartans are? They denied themselves, right so that they could have an edge. Can I tell you the Carler that I would tell players to the no sex. Yeah, Spartan suggestion. You can absolutely have sex before a big game. J don't stay up all night trying That was how I tried do or do not there is no try. Just listen, that would be my view. And I would talk to Yoda. And I had that talk Domink and I think you'd agree with nothing good happens with executives or players at the bar at four AM Like just nothing good. That's when I get the call at seven AM that there's an arrest or there's a lawsuits, something bad So I really was a big fan of like between eight PM and midnight. and then go to bed and get ready for the game Yeah, I mean That's all fine and good. The probability, the fact of the matter is probabilities shift, the later it gets. and the probabilities ine Extremely awesome things to happen goes up also. No one ever you that h horseshoe. No one ever tells you that. Yeah. See, see, you don't know. No one ever tells you that I've been a part of the not awesome at four A am No, I you've been a part of usir, but I don't understand what you're saying. You're saying that things get better at four AM go ahead Domini com. No, no, no, you're fine. I wasn't stopping because you were cutting me off. I think you're The wayays you're so incredulous about this is helpful. So I think that There's always balance Only really, really bad things happened at four AM, noobody would be out at four AM, David Like the fact of the matter is no one tells those stories. This is kind of how it works in everything. It's like you have a low risk investment You know that you're not going to lose Tin X But you only possibly could gain two X and you might only lose half what you got The same thing occurs the later you stay out at night And there's a point at night where Somet incredible's gonna happen tonight Yeah, it might be in my favorite. it might not be in my favorite. This is like the I'm just Dominique has explained the sex graph for late night rendezvous for people in sports the same way that adventure capitalists see their portra. I think he's confusing slumpbusters with actual So I'm not sure what you're doing, but I just haven't experienced that in my career. I've had some I've had fun at four AM. donon't get me wrong, but it was al ready It was al ready a fedicom plea by two AM So I'm talking about new fun at four AM is harder to come by I think you yeah. that's okay. We could have a conversation off air because I believe that You should have it right now. rightight now. I mean. What do you mean? Let's break out some graphs No, I mean, I think I used the venture capital explanation because I thought that it would resonate with David, but do you not understand? I mean, obviously, you understand the concept of like risk Volatility. like, yeah, it's the same. I'm telling you to me it's risker at four AM. becauseuse there's people agree D for agree David I agree. And when you put money in a riskier investment, you're likely to get higher gains. So if you are operating at a riskier time where people's inhibitions are lower, the inhibitions that would cause something bad to happen are lower. But the inhibitions that would cause something incredible happen are higher. I think that you only believe that you've only been able to imagine a roof on how awesome the night can be. is like, yeah, this one person in me, that's it. That's the roof. I can do that at midnight. I can do that at two in the morning. I can do that at four in the morning. What I'm telling you, David What I'm telling you, David, is that Five, six in the morning and a long night That is not the roof, David That is not the roof, David. Let me let you know. you haven't lived, David Sampson till you' been out Late late, late. I appreciate it Pv It' be watched. It's like Chris Kringle for me over here. like Back Santa. I really love this. Dominig said at the very beginning that he stopped giving peep talks to wayayward youth. Right. here we have we have exactly and hit them books W Wayward adults's cl David say. I will pep talk a Wward adult. I'm not offended by Dolan at all. I must tell you that that and do I think he needed to win this title to somehow that now he's reclaimed He's the owner and the Nicks won a title for the first time in fifty three years. It doesn't change the way he is And it doesn't change the way that he'll be remembered. It adds a line to his obary. It changes the way he'll be remembered And that is, I think what we're grappling with right now is to what degree should it? as by the way, Carl Anthony Towns' fiancee apparently, is not a fan of the policy that has been previously debated now about the sex ban, all that stuff The real sort of to get to the to the brass haacks of it, it's How should we think of James Dolan now What has changed? What priors are we updating? Can I ask that in a different way? When you think of George Steinrner Do you think about the scandals? Do you think about the suspensions? Do you think about the turtleneck? Do you think about his the way he was with managers and Billy Martin? Do you think about the championships? Or is it an amalgam that his legacy is all of those things that he did And that is the memory of George Lber. I think the obituary is a really good lens to answer this question through, because you got to make choices about how you structure it, what's most important. And George Steinbrenner, I mean, I will literally look up his New York Times obituary. I'm actually curious how they put it because in my mind course I lead with, he won all of the time. He didn't win all the time He He didn't win until they got it's so funny that that is your memory. But of he was terrible but this is but this is can I can I can I settle this please? I think I think that it is just about your proximity to the person and your proximity to when they died And I think David being a baseball person has a much fuller U and being slightly older has a much fuller understanding of who George Steinberin or was And for me, I'm even further away from it than Pablo. like I didn't grow up in New York. Like I think of Steinbrenner and he's like the prototype or the archetype of like a major League baseball owner to me and he won a lot of Championships. that's really all I have because we're far enough away from it and I'm far enough away from it. So I think the same thing is going to be true for Dolan is like Charles Oakley Pbably not going to feel great about Dolan. Very close to it But for most of us, like the vast majority of people, they're going to remember James Dolan as the guy who brought a title to the Knicks. And no matter all the other stuff that we're pointing to, that's what it's going to happen And I don't know if I would write the Oit in that way, but I'm realizing, as I look at the New York Times obbituary for George Steinbrenner in twenty ten, the headline is George Steinbrenner, comma who built Yankees into powerowerhouse comma dies at eighty. And here's the first sentence by Richard Goldstein, the writer George Stein Brenner who bought a declining Yankees team in nineteen seventy three promised to stay out of his daily affairs and then, in an often tumultuous reign, placed his formidable stamp on seven World Series championship teams, eleven pennet winners, and a sporting world powerhouse valued at perhaps one point six billion dollars D died Tuesday morning at a hospital in Tampple, Flora where he lived. He was eighty, period. And then it goes on from there So the seven was a big part of that So query if it had been w. is the sentence the same, but the seven becomes a one. and if there's one pen in one World sereries, I'm not sure. it may just bec comma owner of New York Yankees or owner of World Champion World sereries winning New York Yankees. Jim Dolan's obituary will be a long complicated one because of everything that he's done in his life from cable Vision ono But you can almost copy the first part of the sentence promised to stay out of its daily affairs and then in an often tumultuous rain won the New York N, their first championship in fifty three years And I think that I mean, the thing that I laugh at with this speech Dominique is it reminds me of how people have often talked about Trump whenever Trump does something that peopleeople somehow For the first time in memory, kind of like. And it's like finally James Dolan is the president Finally he is behaving. He has finally become the thing, the office that we wanted him to live up to That's what this speech has given him for, I think the first time and My sort of gut reaction is Yes, the comment section should celebrate this. I get it This is u This does not change how I think of him. This is kind of a piece with his whole deal But you're Oakley So there's plenty of people who aren't changed about Steinbrerenner by reading that first sentence. There's plenty of people got fired by him, plenty of people who did not have good business dealings with him. You can walk inside an owner's room an owner's meeting and get twenty eight different first lines of the obituary about George Steinrunner. So you're Dominic Kat it right. It's all about your proximity relationship and also about when he dies. If Jimmy Dolan lives for forty more years and gets nothing else accomplished then it's a interesting question about what sentence the NBA Championship would be in I think we landed on a name for this. Dominiic has it right. That's pretty much how these go when the three of us get together. you guys say stuff? Then I clean it up And then we walk away agreeing that we're so grateful that Dominiqu has it right because otherwise wed be in the wilderness going to bed at midnight thinking that that's all the best that could happen Sheeeh. also. Back to the speech. I do appreciate I didn't listen to the whole speech I couldn't do But I do appreciate that the concept of And hopefully he went down this path of like acknowledging that he is in this situation, he is nothing. Like I The thing I want most, the thing that is most important to me, that is so valuable that will change the way people think about me, change the way I feel, will define my life, That's in your hands I'm a billionaire that can do anything I want in this world. But the one thing that could change my life I had nothing to do with it. I will have nothing to do with them here on out. I will give you all buy all the ice you need for your muscles. I'll give you all the stem machines to recover. I'll give you the best gym you need, basketballs, coaches pay you all the money. But now I can't do nothing but watch it, cheer, please, by God If it means nothing to you I want you to know that it means Everything To me, That's the speech Period, walk out the room Set a tear midway through. setet a tear That's the speech. All this other bulls about Spartans, get out of here with that. That's nonsense. All this like acknowledge that he is powerless and he is entrusting All this to them I like the perspective though, Dominique of explaining to the players that this lasts forever. When you look at look at look at all of us. Look at me. I'm twenty three years past and it's still associated World Series winning team president players when they win a ring It's worldld champion. when when anybody's in the media, a former player with their creds next to their Twitter handle, it either say it says the best thing they have. If you've and if all you have is an all star, it's which is cool. It says all star All pro if you if you've been a Super Bowl winner, but if your Sperowl MVP, it has that. So it's it's levers. So every one of those players there they won't be in the rafters. I don't know what he meant by that. I think he meant the team is in the rafters, they won't have all their numbers retired. obviously. That's ridiculous. guy on tate. I was gonna say Yeah, that was I'm suing. He misspoke. No. Ariel H You know this, Dominique. You can't rely on an oral promise. You can't have the four. You can't have the four I want to get to though what the owner did or did not do because on some level, it is worth acknowledging that James Dolan, despite I think the hopes and dreams of many fans He's still been quite involved with the team The firing of Tom Tibidau, replacing him with Mike Brown, James Dolan had his fingerprints all over that. His son, David, is Again, you can imagine the familial dynamic in the Nicks ownership group and their executive structure. His son is one of the leaders of the team. He works on the sports science stuff and whatever. his title I will fact check here Senior vice president of playler performance slash science leader. Thank you. that what what a title that and ind deffinitely somethinghing I remembered and not had I wonder like does she have Do he have science science background It's not it's not like chemistry So there's a there's obviously a lot of fathers and sons and fathers and daughters who work in ownership. Jimmy Dylan's father, I think that you should j here who Charles Dolan is and you should note the Dolan family is still involved with the Guardians. although they have a step transaction with David Blitzer, another name that you all may might know. But that doesn't bother me that his son worked even though I was a son. I don't think of it that way. I'm merely saying that and by the way, we'll show a photo of Quentin Dolan, who is jacked So he's familiar with the science at the very least. Do you say that like steroids? I'm not saying that say What a compliment to pay wonder., Jack Jack just means muscular. Jack doesn't mean staroids. Are you Jack I mean, I'm ripped out of time. honestly. Oh, you're ripped Yeah, you don't notice terminology. Jacked is more like slow. like Bulky ripped is like 'selane You're not of familiar with. What are you, Pablo? I'm u soft Ageo. I know what I am. Cuffy You're not puffy There's a joke here. I hope you' I hope you're not talking. I was going gonna say, this is a baby oil joke that I am so I am neither pointself for now noring Rs nor jacks My point is, James Dolan and his family have had his fingerprints, had their fingerprints all over this rck. They change the head coach Obviously the entire structure hiring Leon Rose, it's David, in fairness When it comes to what did the owner do He did all this and my the updated prior for me is I didn't think you could win a championship with this guy as the owner And whether it was because or in spite of, which is, I think netting out to be still quite a debate It's now obbviously doable and that is that is that's news to me Same with the Yankees. sameame with I'm sorry. The teams you played for Dominiic, do you believe for a second your owner was not involved I mean, yeah, I do. You do Yeah, I think the who is who is your principal owner was always a craft My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. el no one else owns me But sorry. Who was the owner of the team governed you Yeah, the governors. so Um Bowen was in Denver Um, and he was like aging and this is Pat Bolen yes year Yeah Pat Bolen and they ended up so end up selling a team. So he was getting to a place where if he wanted to be involved. And Mike Shanahan was there and had accumulated a bunch of power. And I mean, I'm sure that he had some decision making power, but he wasn't day to day. I was only in Atlanta for a year with Arthur Blank. I got traded there. I was only there for a few months in the season. so I don't know his involvement. Then I came to Baltimore where Bashadi was the owner and Ozzie New him famously like is very powerful. So like I was at organizations between Ted Sunquis and Shanahan and Denver and U Harbaugh and Ozzy Newsom in Baltimore that I think the owners probably weren't as meddling I get your point. Yeah, they're always very involved in most places and they probably were involved in these processes also, but I think they were a little more hands off than most places It's great when players think that. That would have been our goal I always wanted to protect our owner from the players thinking that he was behind the moves and we'd eat it a lot When there was a required move that came down that was called an OP an owner's prerogative, which is there's no debate. We are releasing this player or we are signing this player. We would try to publicly say it was a baseball decision. It was us because we wanted to protect the owner. But I sat in the room, Dominque and you've seen it too. I just owners are involved Jeffy Luria, your former stepfather in law No az' stepfather in That. Just that. Okay, very good. So Jeffrey Lauria. stfather. h to David Sampson. Did he, as the owner of the Marllands, was he sitting in like player exit meetings Now 'use that's what D did just say that he was the owner of the team. I'm sorry. I decid try to like dominic like I mean, does the stepfather feels like unnecessaryine kind like I like to it. underndercutting him unless it's relevant to the b. Of course we're in the relationship of Dolan and his son I think it's relevant because what David brings is a behind the scenes perspective that is behind the scenes of even people who are employees of the owner And so I want to know, for instance, along these lines of invasiveness famamilial and otherwise Did Jeffrey Laoria ever give motivational speeches? Yes, of course And And you watched it I was in the clubhouse Almost every time And listen, one year they worked. We won the World Series and seventeen years they didn't work So there were also speeches during bad times when Jose died. We addressed the team. So there are times when you address the team when Fernandez He would never be there when we fired the manager, but he'd be there when we hired a manager So I mean, there's owners just have the right to be in meetings when they want to be in. but like for inst for example, he called Mike Stanton and said you're called up to the big Lagues I'm saying Mike Stant because that was his name when he was called up. He's now known as Jean Carlo Stanton, but his name used to be Mike But he won't be involved when we release a player He didn't call out lighter and say, by the way, we're designating you for assignment But that's their right. It's People don't want to do bad things generally. They just want to do good things. Dominiic was already shaking his head. What don't you believe? I't I believe all of that. I think I was shaking my head because Um, You can do it I' skin right now I'm okay. Oh, no, no, no, it has nothing to do with like hurting your feelings. I'm not worried about that. You've worked at one Baseball organization and I know that owners are involved. I guess the way that you are expressing it is different than I think it takes place in a bunch of different places. And I think the complexity of football changes things. I'm just telling you from meeting with other team presidents and from being in meetings and from knowing owners, we all everyone has the same experience. Like if you asked Derek Caul, hey, is Ken Kendrick involved You know, he's not going to tell the truth publicly, but privately, he'll certainly talk about the role Ken Kendrick plays as an if in fact that conversation' ever taken place. So that's remember any of the great speeches Yeah, what what does rhetorically, what do these things sound like notot unlike Dolens's. It's, hey guys, this is this is our we have an opportunity. A big day to do is after the trade deadline. When we acquire a player, you come in and meet the team and say, all right, guys, we gave you help. Now go, let's go. let's push through and get to October h when we were down Down three one to Chicago met the team and said, listen, we can win three in a row. We just did it against San Francisco. One game at a time. let's go And whatever, Domine could what was youre me let me hear you give one. My speech is always the negative one, unfortunately. I'm because the no, no, no, no, Yeah now you have. we're giving you I will give you the speech that I would give to the team whichich is guys, I need you to help me understand two things, please. Number one, we will pay for your drivers Number two, I've left a phone number on your chair that is my cell number and the number of a chauffeur company. Do not get arrested for drunk driving Number three Every woman in the hotel when we check in is off limits. I'm not Number four No, you don't like the first three dominated.ow, I can't wait. I gott to give you four. I can't wa for number four. I man I thought I thought we were going rule of three and I started chiming. I'm trying to do a lot. I got one more One more f the rule of four, ahead. Gentlemen You are solely responsible for our success on the field. The dysfunction in the front office, the issues that you read about publicly, all of that, managerial changes, none of that matters because at seven hundred five None of it exists Either you win or we lose So go ahead. Go win And that's how I would end it Four things I want to put the music from Independenceay underneath that. Listen, it' just happened so many times Dominique you've been in teeam hotels, You know what I mean. It's terrible Well, football is so different, man. L we are such a unique sport relative to the other major American sports because that stuff on the road, we're in and out business trips. So you guys go and stay in a city for extended period of time. You go back to the same city multiple times Re you're holding four nights in a real hotel. Yeah. like that That's a different experience. And of course, football players like you'll get to a city and somebody might know someone and try to whatever. generally, you get in, you have dinner, you have meetings, we go to our room, we go to bed, we get up, we play football. We go from the stadium to the airport. It's not the same situation Yeah, it's a business.ere's the six AM stuff Where's the four AM fun in that Yeah, that's that's in Denver. It's in Vegas.'s it's wherever you are O Denver and Vegas because I was in a committed relationship after that. Oh That's right. lock at that the record show, Your Honor. Have ever seen a player in a committed relationship do anything? Bible reading was what I was going at four AM U So I was not moved by your speech. It started to get better at the end, but I was trying to give you a chance to give the speech that you said that you never allowed you're never allowed to give. I wanted you to give the motivational pump me up speech and you just made me scared. And it was like No, I don't want you to be scared. I want you to be I want you to rise to the moment and play to your ability and be free from all the distraction I think that's the thing for me that strikes me about running a sports team. and it's even worse today. There's so much distraction. There's so many people trying to just bring you down and in the old days, they wouldn't really be able to do it and now they can You know, mental health, unfortunately was not as big a deal in my time because there just wasn't this sort of proliferation of anger and negativity. And you know, we all had death threats, but they were done by email or by regular mail They weren't done in the comment section. I like that you longing for the old days when people would cut out letters in the newspaper. right magazines to send it. Oh We really a threat in my life. Now you can just squeee a threreat at me I want my threats to be arts and crafts projects. I wouldn't even go to MLB security over a comment death threat. We only went over things that were sent in the mail, things that were faxed to us back in the day. You're not threatening to murder me. byy cutting out letters from magazines You don't get my attention. Not afraid I'm sorry, Paula. That's the absolute truth of how we teams deal with MLV security Bother me with the comment section deeath threat There is a level of commitment that would be scary. like if you tweet me something threatening like, all right, you're just firing that out. But if you wentent to an arts and craft store. bought a glue stick Selected some magazines I'm calling started to cutting. paste it on me? like not This mother Crazy. If I even thought to do that, I would get my sense when I'm at the counter of the store and they're like, Yes, you want this glue stick? Yes, ma'am. In these twelve magazines. I was like, what I doing. Then I sit down and start cutting out letters I like, donon't I got something better to do? I don't think you need more than two magazines for a death threat. I mean, it's not you're not writing a Bible. You can want to pr min. So see, what you don't understand is most of those are small letters. You're trying to do a real death threat. You need big letters, multiple colors, you need multiple magazines. You want. Yeah, you got to be able to' talking about something not funny I was never that scared of them. I disagree. I mean, what are they gonna to do What are you gonna do? Probably murder you. Yeah. Just make it fast The thing that I want to discuss is What? enabled this championship. And the thing, perhaps above all else as we continue to do our financial accounting of this championship Is Jayen Brunson taking a voluntary pay cut I just think that Jalen Brunson, the whole idea of players taking discounts, and I'd rather Dominique talk about it. I just never had it I never had a player say to me, please, I'm happy not to get paid what I'm worth if you promise to sign someone else. I've just never nor anyone I've spoken to experienced that. We've heard players say it, but not mean it. I want to set the table here because typically I'm the guy who has, of course, investigated such things, but I just want to lay this out at face value because I think Face value is quite interesting So Jalen Brunson basically gave the Nicks a nine figure discount, agreed to a four year one hundred fifty six million dollars extension instead of waiting a year to sign the five year two hundred seventy million dollars deal. This was in November of twenty four. And yeah, this was a news story that also establishes, by the way that his dad, Rick, longime MBA coach got elevated to the lead assistant role of the Kicks. And so there was all this noise back then But just on the financials of it, Dominique The idea that a player, the most important player took kind of a pay cut of his own volition At face value says what as the guy who, of course, was the president of the NFL PA and also the CEOO of the NBPA? I mean, I purpose of the union and the animating The drive of the union is to give the players the power and flexibility to do all the things that they want. If this is something that Jalen Brunson wants to do I would be happy for him to do that. My concern is that it creates an expectation other players and it shifts responsibility from the general managers and the owners. It shifts responsibility for building a good team from them to the players. And if a player who's already having his salary suppressed by a number of different factors, if a player feels that the pressure is you should take less or you don't care enough. too me, that feels unfair because like I mentioned, the owners do not have their revenue suppressed in any way, but the players already have. And I don't think it's fair to have like the GMs when it's your turn like, okay, you just got me for under market value. the entire portion of my rookie career. Now you got to pay me my actual value or closer to my actual value Now you have to find some other places to make up whatever you're losing. It's not my responsibility. So like again, Jailing works out perfect for you. Tom Brady, anyone else who has done it, if you want that to happen, that's fine. The Jailin situation is even more unique because The GM is his former agent. his agent is the son of the GM. his dad is getting paid by the organization. L it's entirely different. Yes. I don't like If you not sign of Max deal guys? couldould you just give give me some facts here because I must have misunderstood totally. I thought the way it works is that the Max deal at that time was four years, one hundred and whatever it was But if he waits a year, then the Max deal becomes five years to hundred seventy But then he plays a full year without that extension, without that guaranteed money Do I have the facts right How is it that he was giving the team an extra one hundred thirteen million dollars when he got all the guarantee that year, the maximum guarantee that he could get that year? The logic is you take the guaranteed money available to you. He left the extra year on the table and that provided the flexibility of the team to make all sorts of other decisions that materially allowed them to the roster. Okay, that's an amazing way to look at it. But the way we would look at it is that some players choose to take deals early in their career. as an example in baseball, It happens often. you get a guaranteed deal before you've played a game and you give up upside if you're a superstar and you get great upside if you suck And there's a lot of players who don't make it to arbitration, but keep getting paid because they sign guaranteed deals And that's a decision a player makes. And the way Dominique put it about the Union I love, which is we put players in a position to give themselves a chance to make a decision. And that's what the CBA does in basketball. We read it every year. You can sign now for this, but if you wait, you can sign for that then. And it's always a huge amount of difference. Co and I cover this on nothing personal. I think Yokach I think is he an example of Co of a player who had a chance to do a deal today or he could wait a year and it would be an extra one hundred eighty million dollars for him or something crazy? So I think that's the CBA talking, notot necessarily Jalm Brunson But the value though, just to be very blunt about this, the value to a team of a player who will be flexible in the ways that you would prefer. around whether or not he will risk not taking the money on the table because he's willing to How much money is he making per year Could you do the quick math for me? Yeah, so here's the annual salary of Dallen Brunson, twenty five twenty six thirty five million Next season thirty eight, next season forty and a half, next season forty three And that's a player option Um, So totaling one hundred fifty six point five million dollars And he is a performing top of the leadague guy. Other people who sign max deals in the NBA who are not that who become an albatross, even though they gave the team a discount because they signed it immediately to get the guaranteed money. And then they didn't win a championship. and they weren't one of the top five players in the to just do the math here, if Brunson had waited until twenty five instead of twenty four when he signed the extension The salaries would have been forty six in change, fifty, fifty four, fifty seven and a half, sixty one, a total of two hundred sixty nine million dollars available to him So that is again, just a matter of your own financial planning, right? Do I want to take the deal that is here or do I want to maximize But there's risk involved in that Sure. If you don't perform in that year, then you may not be offered. It's not a guarantee that he would have been offered that de But Dominiqu, what I'm sort of phrasing here is Here are the two timelines that Jayen Brunson could have gone down. One of them was the preference of the team and it enabled a championship The other one is You know differentifferent, probably worse timeline That's something you could you could guess at, but it I think most players assume that they can have both And most people assume that they can B. L I don't imagine that very many people are like who've had this level of success believe like, oh no, I have to take a discount while no one else is taking a discount. I'm sure we all can and I get the numbers are so big that most of us are like, all right. It's fine either way, but It doesn't feel that way. When you are this unique a talent in this unique situation. I mean, what are there twenty baskball players at his level or above, like twenty people in the world that does what he does or better And like I feel like that should be properly compensated and he shouldn't have to take a preay cut. I understand the system that we live in, but You can Do both, you can have sex tonight before a game and still ball out just don't stop all night. Well, look, Tom Brady is the example in the NFL, right? So Dominique is saying, well, what if this becomes a template What do this comes a template for o force players to take to take quote unquote discounts. You just can't. My concern is not you won't be able to force them to, but what I don't like is when and this happens a lot with the owners, and I think you would agree with me here, David is I don't like to your point When the bad stuff happens, they want to fade into the background. like I remember having this fight with a bunch of people every time Dack Prescott's contract comes up. Now all of a sudden, people receding into the background like now it's your turn genereneral manager owner. It's your turn to do your job to find the value. and people start piling on the quarterback or pile on a star player like you got to take less. You don't care about win if you take less. If Jallen Bronsson does this or Jalen Bronsson has done this And we don't say that it's not his responsibility. We should not expect it. A lots of other fan bases will say I want to startar like Jaen Brunnton. Why doesn't I star act like that? And I would say to them, Why don't you your GM do a better j? Why don't you get a Sam Psty? Do that. Don't look at us and tell us to take a pay cut. Tell your owner to do a better job. That to me is the risk that we run. I don't think I believe that Dolan or anybody or Leon Rose. I mean, there could be salary cap cir convention, there could be other ways he got paid, but I don't in my experience, I didn't go to a player and say, hey, do me a favor and take a discount We would offer a player what we were willing to pay the player within the confines of our salary structure to build an entire team because Jalen Brunson is going to get an extension And are we going to have the discussion when he's fifty eight million of the salary cap and the Nicks aren't winning the title And there's no ability to win around him. Yanis is a great example. He won it in Milwaukee, and then there was no way to have anything around him. It just didn't work By the way, it's happening in Cleveland now It's going to happen in San Antonio when Fox starts making the max next year. I'm not upset with Fox He got offered a max. he took it. It doesn't make him a bad guy I don't I just don't I don't think players are bad people for taking. You are deals You aren't Sometimes fans are and the people like that are that are cutting out j us and sending them, they're upset. And that's where they come from. Theyre like we have a championship This entire conversation, what I'm trying to do here though, is More precisely quantify what is the true value and responsibility of the thing that is the most important aspect of what we do here in sports, which is try to win the championship And the thing at the end here that I'm brought back to is How much did this mean to an unpopular owner who now perhaps has his obituary restructured, who now has fans defending him in comment sections, who now is a template because things worked to reverse engineer based on his own decision making. And of course, I am talking about Jeffrey Lauria, Davis Hampson Stepfung. Winning fixes everything. That's it. I mean, that's the end of it. His first line is now champion Dolan is a forever champion But you saw it though, you saw the way in which the Marlins, as this case study ly comically unpopular owner Wins but his obituary will start with World sereries winner I thought we' talking about that. olen in ten years if the Kicks don't win again Remember, we spent fifteen years not winning after that. But what I'm really looking for is Behind the scenes. behind the scenes of the scenes What was it like fininally get how We see players celebrating it. I want to know unvarnished When Jim Dolan is asking for all these things, when Jeffrey Lauria is experiencing what it's like What is it actually like? You start meeting the next day about the next year We had a meeting the day of the parade. to start talking about the roster for zero four That's the truth. That's the grind of the championship season. Players will take some time off and then get ready It's summer Leagues starting soon. the draft, like it's the calendar goes on See, he' not telling the truth There was a real big celebration. there was an exhale, there was a lot of fun. And maybe you did have a meeting the next day, but that night you guys didn't just go home and go to bed and sleep. L there was a relief and celebration and joy that you refuseed to tell us about, but' I'll tell you what enough to know, but don't. You were at the hotel. No the night we won in New York withith Jack McKean and the who was the manager of the GM, we were in our bathrobes, our hotel bathrobes at the Hyatt And we were watching Sports Center on Loop That's what we did because we were the lead of Sports Center and it was all about the win And we were there and we were drinking and together watchatching Sports Center on loop. That is what we did the night of game six, october twenty fifth ofzero three is funny. You should mention that. Though I do know on a side note, four different players with some guests of ours, there was some stuff going on at four AM. so players did find I would stuff at four AM. I would hope so There was if you talked to mister Beckett and the like, there was activity the night after the World sereries. So I went to game four of best game in professional basketball history. I was at that game and I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to bring my wife or not. And I'm so happy that she came because after that night, I mean, after that game Like it's a must and I ain't even play This a must That experience, you think I'm just gonna lay down and go to bed after a game like that? I went toan nobody deserves to like go home and just like, all right, back to sleep. No That man deserves a nightcap. Like you gott to remember that night forever. I didn't break a sweat until we got back to the room You think OGian andobbe just settled for the tip that night? I would assume he went right to sleep This has been Pablo Torere findinds out, a Meadalark media production And I'll talk to you next time