Refusing to Indulge Political Fictions

Welcome to Pablo Tore, Finds out. I am Pablo Tore and today we're going to find out What this sound is. Pablo Torere, official Jan Sixer. That's what you that's what you are right after this ad live in DC. Yes So watching the watching the erection of this Figurative erection, but just literal structure. go up. the White House has been a local news story for you then. Yeah. I did Northern California radio yesterday And it was kind of funny because the well intentioned host had asked me, Are your neighbors planning any Watch parties for this event and I was like, m no No That is not the kind of vibe in DC. Well, good morning. Yeah. This is all because of the UFC fight and the associated events here down by the White House, the ellipse and the like. If you look behind me here, you can see everything that has been put in place here on the ellipse. That's where the fanfest is going to happen. If you kind of look beyond that stage up up high, you can see the top of the fighting ring the so called claw that's on the south lawn of the White House. Now this is an event that is not without controversy. Some people not too crazy about it happening here and specifically in this area. But whatever your feelings are, that fight is going to happen on Sunday. That's the president's birthday.. I grew up in DC in the nineteen eighties And I have seen so much change happen to the city. I've seen what Republican administrations do. I've seen what Democratic administrations do And there is just nothing like what Trump is doing to the city now That is visible in any number of ways, National Guard deployment, which is if you're not from DC, you will not appreciate this. But if you'll come, you will see, I'm not making this up They have nothing to do, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I know he had to take his name off, but he tried to put it on the Kennedy Center. public golf courses. So that's the one that really got me because that's the East Potomac golf course, Al also also known as Haynes Point. It's a whole park system. Right. In the nineteen eighties, I took a Red Cross seminar to learn how to swim there. And my daughter turned two, there's a playground just at the end of it. and my daughter had her second birthday there. It was during the middle of the pandemic, we were looking for an outdoor space. It was one of the few that was available. He completely took it over And then he wants to have his arch. and if you lived in DZa a long time you know, this kind of event fits into this larger pattern of the president just deciding that public spaces are his. and his alone to do with what he wants. On the other hand, I feel like Everybody is getting this story wrong. It is driving me crazy And everyone wants to say, oh, isn't it, I don't know, garish or tacky or whatever but I'm like, The story of this fight is the union between the ultimate fighting championship and the Trump administration. This is merely a wedding between them They've been dating four years And every mainstream outlet is just now realizing that this has been a thing that this train left the station Pablo a long time ago What I want people to focus in on is the union, not whether or not they feel like it doesn't match with their class interpretation of an event on the White House law You Luke Thomas, guy who loves MMA who grew up covering and watching the sport The thing that strikes you is not the octagon structure that has been constructed on the lawn of the White House. It's the way in which that Archway is a wedding arch is the formalized marriage between private and the public between the UFC, the private institution that is governing, of course, mixakes martial arts, predominantly, and our government as run by Donald Trump. That's right The largest mixed martial arts promotion in the world has partnered with One of the most extreme political projects I have seen in my forty six years on this planet. that they helped return him to power and that they did so at a time when law enforcement was bearing down on him. That is the story. The story is not there's going to be a bunch of fights on the White House seems to me very much an aesthetic consideration versus a substantive one. I've talked to so many people about this event in the last especially the last couple of the weeks And not a single question is about the fights. There is undeniable quality, I would say to the card itself, but it's more than that. Is this going to be a good card? Is this a serious sporting event? Like what is this from an MMA perspective So I think this is a good question and I'm really glad you asked it because it's important to understand the MMA fans perspective here I think there's probably going to be a lot of MMA fans who don't want me to articulate their perspective, but I will do my honest to God goodness best Number one, there's no fat on this card. So normally a UFC event will be ten, twelve, sometimes fourteen fights. it can be a lot. This is half that. It's seven. It was originally going to be six President Trump asked for a last minute kind of addition to one. They were able to make it work. So there's going to be a seven total fights, but there's no fat on this card. There's nobody hanging on by a thread in their career. everyveryone who is here These are high achievers. There's a belt on the line in the main event. There is an interim belt on the line C main event and this is the other portion A lot of MMA fans are going to look at this and say to themselves, does it meet my checklist And my checklist is, we want Big atmosphere We want a big show. We want big stakes in the fights We want big we want just big And from their perspective, they're not necessarily trying to understand it on political terms. In fact, Like I often think of when I go on your show here, like who am I talking to? I do not believe I am talking to them I believe I'm talking to other people out there and This White House event is like the appeal of it is very easy to understand within the MMA bubble. So yes, like there is value to this card. like on one level, I've seen people say, you know, o, you' going to boycott this card? No, not at all. L real fighting of legitimate importance in the MMA sphere is happening We got the White House on one angle. We got the Washington Monument on the other. What is there to dislike? That is how I believe they would try to describe. the situation here, whether or not others see it that way, obviously is a matter of interpretation. It does remind me that as this thing is happening and by the way, it is coinciding, of course with special birthday celebration of the Pident as opposed to the actual july fourth, two hundred fifieth anniversary, which has been brought up in litigation against this thing, which is its own I suppose digression away from what I want to get to here. It does have the feel of It a feeling like street fighter as in Yeah there are scenes in the background. that are particular to a given geographic locale. And then there are the There's the audience that is meant to resemble something. And in this case, the guys watching the fight are a very very specifically curated group Senior Pentagon leaders are putting together lists of US service members who could have the chance to attend President Donald Trump's White House UFC event. But in order to qualify, those troops must meet the military's body composition standards. Those regulations say that troops must have a wasaist to height ratio of zero point five five. What does that mean The average male in the United States is about fivety nine. That means he would have to have a thirty seven inch waist in order to qualify for free admission to this UFC event. The average woman on the other hand, in the United States is about five four, meaning her waist would need to be about thirty five inches in order to get the free tickets. So they're there for a very specific purpose. Let's be very clear about this One of the things that you see and I think the best way to understand what the UFC is doing here is just to ask what Saudi Arabia has been doing in boxing To me, it's not very much dissimilar to that There are some meaningful differences, but that's a great way to understand it. So when it comes to the troops, first of all, cards on the table. I know we talked about it last time, but for any folks who might have missed, from nineteen ninety eight to two thousand four, I was in the Marine Corps. I was just a reservist, had a very ordinary career, but it gave me some insight into how some of these things work. It is not at all surprising to me that they are having troops there at number one And the reason why is someone's going to say oh there's a pro wouldon' be the first administation won't be the last, but yes, they are there as a prop. But it's actually more important than that When Saudi Arabia has tried these like really extravagant locales, the Giza one worked, the pyramids of Gizo that worked But they tried one in Timesquare. I don't know if you recall this. Oh God, that's right. And it was a disaster. It was a complete disaster. whyy was a disaster? So for a bunch of reasons, but the one I wantanna focus in on like why the troops are there is because, dude, if you fill up an arena. I don't care how small or how big. with people who aren't traditionally fight fans. And then fights happen in the way that fights do And the crowd doesn't react the way that a normal fight friendly crowd would, it destroys the fight It destroys the atmosphere. It is much more detrimental than you might imagine. The product requires an atmosphere in an audience. It's a call in response between the action and the fans themselves. And anybody who knows anything about the military will tell you, these are rock ribs. fight fans So they're going to hoot and holler at exactly the right time. They're going to know exactly what to look for. And who else is there, Pablo? Well If you got a million and a half large You can get a sponsorship package, AKA a kind of ticket to get in. These people, they probably think that these fights are going to end with someone throwing a hammer into the middle of the octagon. They don't know anything about fighting. They don't know anything about who's on the card. They don't care. they're there because it's the Deloitte, KPMG, Booz Allen, Boeing, Raytheon class of DC, Senate staffers or whoever who are there to schmooze to get political favors. That's why they're there. They will destroy the atmosphere if it's just them But you pump in the troops and all of a sudden, now you've got automatic atmosphere. You're asking about the heightened weight requirements. I don't think it's all I mean, that part to me is really not particularly offensive. But the thing for me that I always go back to is I always ask people people people love to use the troops and they never, ever do anything actually for them. Have you been to Walter Reid ' I have I wrote an article for UFC magazine on a guy who now has a Jiuitsu school in DC who was training guys in what they called adaptive Jujitsu becausecause one guy would have an arm blown off I saw a guy who was a triple amputee, I went to the new Walter Reed Some of those guys are going to meet heighten and weight requirements, but most are not. That's exactly the kind of guy who needs to be at this event. That is exactly the kind of person that needs to be prioritized. If you want, you know, Jack Good looking troops. I get it. That's part of the atmosphere. I certainly understand it as calculated as it all may be But if you actually really care about the troops, you take care of the ones who have taken care of us the most in all of this, of course, as the president himself likes to say, a central casting dimension to his preferences for how the federal government, how public money is dispurersed and how it is portraying the vision of America that he wants. So that too, I'm like Again, I'm not especially scandalized. It's just very on the nose. And then you of course have the reports around all of these celebrities that were invited and you know, it's the rock, but the rock Apparently he's not gonna show up. It is Mario Lopez. It's sort of like the gamut of just like, who could we get to come to this thing? and cign it because of course, stardom is a big criteria of what Trump wants Will the stars come out for this Remember the Rocks company makes the shoes for the fighters That's who actually does that. So for him to not post kind of noteworthy. You recall, he endorsed Biden. He didn't endorse anyone this time. I don't know what, you know, whether his sympathies changed. I think he may have just decided to remove himself. As many by the way, athletes and celebrities have. Yeah, it's kind of interesting. not going to get involved this time. It was so funny, right? Because I had seen on social media among people on the left they were like Well, you know what? all those acts from the Freedom two hundred fifty concert, they they're all pulling out, and which was true, got to the next level and they were like, all the UFC fighters are pulling out. I'm like, no. No, that's not happening. Number one, they won't get paid Number two, this is a coveted slot to them. I mean, you can like that fact or you can hate that fact But it's a fact And However, has nothing to do with the celebrity side. So the rock has been seen at UFC events for actually quite a long while. Adam Sandler, I think you can throw in there to Yeah. Jared Letto might show up. I don't know if they invited him or not, but he is, you know, front and center Anthony Kedis Another one of these guys run Hutchilly P peppers. Tom Brady, Jason Stathan. Tom Brady Mike because he's deep in business with Saudi Arabia too But all of this is again decor around the larger partnership And I do want to just get to this thing that has now been announced this week which is Even beyond, by the way You would beyond the commemorative coins because of course, they're commemorative coins. Right. Why wouldn't there be at four X valuation? Yes. whyy wouldn't there be another opportunity for Donald Trump and Dana White to cash in by selling commemorative coins? There's also the bigger play, which is this memorandum of understanding that as of Thursday is now official. We're excited about what this brand means, about America's ability to expand and reach out to different parts of the world. You will see these cards, you hosting them in seventeen or eighteen different jurisdictions. that's going to grow in my opinion And as you grow more countries that you go to and do this, but in the end it will be an American company and an American brand that's bringing this sport, even though it may be their fighters bringing this sport, to those places and that is the definition of Americans soft diplomatic power. And I just want to geol loocate this as well because Currently We're at war with Iraq. There are lots of foreign policy disasters for the White House to consider. But the thing that's coming out of this that I did not know was happening until this week is this idea that Marco Rubio. Secretary of St And Dana White, CO V ofC They are going to use cage fights for diplomacy. which is the headline in the New York Post And just the idea of quote marking a new public private partnership to enhance sports diplomacy initiatives and collaborate on the global growth of mixed martial arts What part of this jumps off the page to you This is as I kind of indicated previously, for a lot of people, one of the questions I've been getting asked is, wow, do you think the UFC might be seen as being political as a result of this White House event. and I'm like, where have you been? Where have you been So partly, it's this sort of first recognition that there is a relationship between Trump and the UFC that they may have not been aware of before, and now they're beginning to have to work backwards from it. But to more properly answer that question. What I'm going to say is You cannot understand the modern UFC and frankly, TKO more broadly actually, unless you understand how much government Lge S. and government favoritism Powers that business So you might ask, how is that the case? Well, the White House event is not a thing they can do like every week or something. It's maybe the only time they ever do it. I'm sure it will be big for them you'llve seen the lawsit they're allging you know, it's a for profit kind of You scratch my back I' scratchch your's kind of situation? Yes, but it's much more simple than that One of the things that we've noticed with the fight game more recently is a lot of guys aren't fighting in territories that they're from. Another thing that happens is like they'll just go to a place and you don't understand why they're prioritizing that when there's like other hot markets. So for example, UFC hasn't gone to Spain yet Spain might be the most red hot MMA market in all of Europe right now. And in fact, the guy who's in the the champion who's in the main event of this card essentially represents Spain. He's kind of like the vanguard of what is happening there. They won't go there, but I will tell you this, they're going to go to Belgrade, Serbia soon and they've been going to Saudi Arabia and they've been going to Qatar and they've been going to all these GCC countries UA a million times. And it's because they're getting site fees. they're getting governments pay for them to show up and just host an event there I don't know exactly how it's presented in every single country in which it's done, but this is now not just international, it's true domestically Why hasn't the UFC been to Hawaii? Partly it's a issue of the venue, partly it's an issue of the timing. But UFC has even said the tourism board there wouldn't give us enough money, so we won't go. If you don't know anything about MMA, you might miss the fact that Hawaii has a claim to actually producing the best fighter ever in BJ Penn. He had a fall offff, but for a brief moment in time He was one of the best guys I've ever seen in my life And they've never been there. It's not an accident. It's because they're going where the money is. They signed a deal to bring cars to Salt Lake. What is Salt Lake City? Is that a fight city Not as far as I know, it doesn't matter, but they're using that kind of money. And now Again, it expands well beyond this Now You have the situation where they're trying to get legislation. We talked about this last time we were here, the boxing legislation pushed through They're having this White House event on the lawn while the president own stock in TKO. so they can say whatever they want. Oh, it's in a trust that his kids run. First of all, I'm not a toddler. I don't have to believe everything that they say. And more to the point, even if it's true, it's immaterial because he's going to benefit just the same. And now What you're seeing is this situation with Marco Rubio and the State Department, if they, again, as of the time of this recording, some of the details are not clear, but some of them are suggestive of potentially a robust partnership, let's say them and I'm going to make up something. Let's imagine now that the State Department is helping to pay for them to have events in whatever regions that they want or at a bare minimum, just, hey, this is a private public partnership, even if we're in France presented to you by, you know whatever agency or have Yeah because by the way, UFC until until the murder of Renee Good in Minnesota They were airing ice ads. You know, and IC actually had a memo internally that they were targeting UFC fans. There's just been a union not merely between the government and the UFC, although that is true in TKO more broadly But now what you're seeing is specifically the spoils system, this patrimonialism that comes from the Trump administration to UFC. Yeah, onene of the quotes that's already made it out about this partnership between Markco Rubio and Dana White is quote Its events are broadcast worldwide and contribute to the United States' broader cultural and sports influence through professional competition and athlete development and quote, which is to say that what they're arguing is this business, this capitalistic enterprise, public and private What it does is it exports Americanness American soft power and projects it out across parts of the globe that we in the government to see under our spell And it just reminds me that, oh yeah, right. We used to have something like this. It was called USAID The idea of like when you see an American flag flying in another country, it's because there was this federal program that was meant, among many things, to combat disease and to alleviate poverty and to be a refuge for suffering people scattered across the world to the most war torn places. Soft power, they call it. Soft power At one point a very I would say well proven mechanism of how to export whatever it is to be American out to the rest of the planet. cynical but also virtuous in the same breath This feels like what they're replacing it with We're going to have people Do MMA undernder the auspices, Oh, that same flag Two ways to understand it. One is just the terms, you're kind of introducing it, namely, what is the message being sent with something like this? It's about American muscle It's about, you know, this kind of hyper masculine sense of Not the power that they have, but how they wield it as well. This represents us I think is what the government is trying to send with that. There's another angle to kind of consider here. that I think is part of it Namely that I, you know, I all the Trump administration I think I think I want to say this if I may. If you look at American corruption in terms of the presidencies over the many generations, they're very different in many ways. Now, Trump is unique in that he is just so brazen and open with it. It's kind of funny like Iran contontra hidden You know, Watergate hidden. Trump doesn't do that at all So there's different ways in which you can measure it. But if you're talking about self aggrandisement monetizing the office of the presidency. in that particular regard, it's really not even arguable. just the math alone on the Trump organization itself going to three point four billion dollars. He's the most corrupt president in the United States history when it comes to dollar amount, self aggrandizement. It's literally not even debatable. Not even debatable What I'm trying to sort of underscore here is There's just an enormous amount of like, if you're inside Trump world and you are favored within it They steer government resources to boost or, you know, otherwise support your business. Why do I bring all this up? I don't know if what I'm about to tell you is true, especially now that they're going to get their business juiced. Up until recently MMA is contracting worldwide because if you look at the number of events that have taken place in the United States In Brazil and Russia, why is this relevant? These are the three largest markets for MMA in the world There has been a steady decline In the overall aggregate number of events, MMA media has contracted enormously The regional scene has suffered massively. Now there are some bright spots Europe' a bright spot. Japan's a bright spot There is some reason to believe it's contracting And so what do you do in a world where you don't have in payerview, yes, but you don't even have payerview stars anymore in a sport that could be contracting? What can you do? alter the circumstances of that And they've been doing it for a long time already with the site fees on the TKO side But it's getting juiced by the government. Like that is a potentially massively powerful way to introduce a kind of boost that like, just ask yourself about this White House card Connor comes back next month, Conner Mcregor. All right. Connor McGregor comes back next month. Now, that's going to be a big deal Okay But What could they do in terms of the earned media that they're getting for this event What could they do? to get that organically What event could they put on organically to match this? The answer is nothing Nothing. They cannot put on that on. Connor would do a huge number that's true But I mean, in terms of like all the political media that they're getting, Connor's not going to pull them. He's not. He's going to pull all sports and they'll pull all of MMA And so you just have to ask yourself, what do we do to make this A more profitable but also secure a position for as long as we can by just embedding government contracting into the way that we do business Hello, it's me Pablo We have been very interested in what you guys actually like about this show. And so in the show notes, there is a survey You'll find it magically as a link somewhere down there And you can tell us what you want more of, what you want less of, what annoys you about me potentially all of my friends We will use this to improve the show. It takes like thirty seconds. so please fill it out And we will make this better Allegedly. The through line in every world pololitical project is that we are talking fundamentally about Cony capitalism. We're not talking about a market. We're talking about the construction of contracts without other bids. We're talking about a way to funnel money from A to B to C And in this case if the UFC is being used in this way And the story we are being told is, well, this is, of course, an authentic friendship. between Dana White and Donald Trump. This is not some Fperation to help All of the crony capitalists that we are alleging, these are two friends who have always supported each other. and why can't friends do business? Okay. I'm so glad you brought this up. Before we talk any further, can I please address something about this. Please Not with you because you ask good questions I have done a lot of media about this card. And there is something that is driving me Bers. The first one I mentioned was everyone getting getting the story wrong The second one is I'll be asked to like describe the event and you know, if they're asking on political terms, I'll give a political answer. If they ask on f terms I'll give them a fight answer Typically the questions are all on political terms, and I'll give answer. and what they'll say is in response What they'll say in response is like, well, well Dana White said that you know, X or Y or that they're friends or that this they're going to lose money, whatever claim it is. And I'm like, guys, let me take my glass this is just drive me crazy. Dana White is a fight promoter under no circumstance in your life In your life Do you ever take? The words of a fight promoter. anyy fight promoter, especially if they're good Especially they're good thousand percent. Do not. rememember what Bob Aram used to say? What? Yesterday I was lying T todayay I'm telling the truth. o and Bob Aaron, by the way, not dumby went to Harvard. right Okay, never, ever, ever, ever except what they say at face value. Now that's not me telling you that they are lying or that they won't be right and sometimes they'll be really right But what I am trying to say is truth and lies are merely a function of utility to them Treating Dana like he is some honest interlocutor It is so critical that people understand Honestly, I don't even know what ability he has to differentiate between what is false and what is not, because it's immaterial The bond the Friendship that has now become a formalized business partnership that has become a public private partnership betweenetween Dana White Donald Trump. The history of that We can recite The beats of it like from Sheet Music Donald Trump saved the UFC early on and according to Dana White at various Republican national conventions This is a debt that he has always been grateful for and Donald Trump has been his guy For longer than any of us knew that they knew each other show up and tell you about my friend. Donald Trump, the Donald Trump that I know In two thousand one, my partners and I bought the UFC and it was basically considered a blood sport State Athletic commommission didn't support us. Arenas around the world refuseed to host our events Nobody took us seriously Nobody Ecept Donald Trump. Donald was the first guy that recognized the potential that we saw in the UFC and encouraged us to build our business. He hosted our first two events at his venue. He dealt with us personally, he got in the trenches with us, and he made a deal that worked for everyone. On top of that He showed up for the fight on Saturday night and sat in the front row. Yeah Here's that guy He shows up Donald championed the UFC before it was popular, before it grew into a successful business, and I will always be grateful, so grateful to him for standing with us in those early days. So tonight, I stand with Donald Trump That's the story that he tells over and over and over again If you can find an article in the media prior to twenty sixteen, prior to Trump's twenty sixteen presidential campaign of Dana White acknowledging in any circumstance whatsoever The role that Donald Trump played in helping their business I would love to see it because Pablo, I have looked. It doesn't exist and I lived in it. It doesn't exist. They are clearly friends now or on some level anyway. And they are clearly business associates. Obviously, they are that story that they tell and this is why I bring it up, there are just bunches of people who are just not interrogating something that I live through, but I live through the UFC when Dana White got there. I live through the UFC at the ultimate fighter in two thousand five. I live through the rise to McGregor and Rousy I watched all of it. Let me be as clear as I possibly can Donald Trump plays roll into any of it. Well, twenty sixteen, of course, if you're doing the basic math, that would be when Donald Trump becomes the president of the United States and the incentive structure around who you want to be storytelling partners with obbviously shifts in the most extreme possible Direct Again, there is a kernel of it. circ of two thousand one, but in terms of like continuity all the way through, it just completely evaporates in the interim because you gott to remember so two thousand five, they hit Payer The ultimate fighter comes out on Spike TV. It's a monster hit. It does really great ratings, sends the sport into the next atmosphere. People often want to say it was the Force Griffin Steen Bonner fight, but it's really not true. That helped obviously it was a big deal. the ratings all season were awesome. They were really, really good The point I'm trying to make is Dana White was relentlessly doing mia in zero five and zero six zer seven in zero eight in two thousand nine. And then they get the Fox deal in twenty eleven. He's doing more media and more media and more media. He is asked to tell the story of the UFC's success every single time. I mean, all these articles all sound the same at some point, what the story of the UFC is They don't ever identify Donald Trump at all at Hever having a role at being a part of it. It just doesn't feature ever in any conversation. How can it be that after twenty sixteen, it's the centerpiece of the conversation? People are trying to tell me what was happening at that time I lived it What are you gonna to tell me? I was there. This is insane to me. Well, in our attempt to help fact check this premise that Donald Trump has been retconned onto the history of the UFC because the financial incentives are making it worth Dana White's while in our effort to just try to illuminate that It brings us to a piece of video that I had never seen before And I would like you to introduce The set and scene. Yeah. audience. Yeah, So there is a I'm going to call him filmmaker. He has been working for years, years and years and years on an MMA sort of not just one documentary, but like a series, like a season one, like it goes on and on. I mean, this guy's telling every story. again Bobby Rosic is the name of this director. I've known him for some time, maybe a year ago or something. He was doing a screener and in Silver Sring, Maryland just outside where I live He's like come through come Come check it out. And so you can't watch, you know, seven, eight, nine episodes, but he kind of had like an hour and a half condensed And in there, there's an interview with Dana White, Cira two thousand nine is when it was explained to me. This is right around the time Donald Trump is kind of, I mean, it's hard to call him exactly the face of affliction MMA, but something of a prominent figure. Affliction MMA It was the garish t shirts that werewhere in the late aughts And they try to they tried to get the into MMA at the time. and they did have some pretty big fights. It should be noted. Fedore Milenenko who was like the heavyweight who by the way, Fedor has a claim as being the best fighter UFC never signed In any event, Trump was, you, he was more of a promotional figurehead than like the brains of the operation, I think, even by his own estimation brring us all up to say, in this clip from that from Boby Rzk's documentary Dana White is describing other promoters at that time who were trying to get something going All these other businesses failed because you got a bunch of guys that think it's cool and hip to be in the fight business and don't know a fking thing about the fight business. It's like me getting into the movie business or something. Oh, it's cool. I'd like sit around buyind a camera and make movies. I don't know thing about making movies. You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, you got all these guys who have some money, you got Do you get the Trumps Cuban T shirt guys, whoever it is that have some money that want to get into it, they have other businesses. That's where they make their money. Do you know what I do? twenty four hours a day, seven days, a fun week Mix martial arts, that's it. That's all we do. And we're the guys with the roadmap. We're building this thing. We're forging the way and doing all this stuff. When these guys keep popping up that they're the next competition for the UFA, it just drives me crazy. It's like saying, you know what? McDonald's makes a lot of money. A lot of people go to McDonald's. I'm going gonna go head to head with McDonald's McDonald's been in business for years. you know, it took time for them to build that business. It doesn't happen that way Not exactly the speech Dana was giving at the RNC. Yeah, this is what I mean. L he doesn't come out and insult him. He doesn't come out he dismisses he dismisses premise. Anybody this is this is going to I know to people who are going to hear this for the first time. they're going to think I'm hot taking this But does this look like the kind of relationship that would be rewarded with a fight on the White House lawn? Like this kind of sympatico togetherness in two thousand nine? They clearly don't have that at this point. Yeah. And so the premise of when did this all get together and why It seems like Dana White is quite good at knowing where the money is and what it takes to unlock that money And so being in business with the government with governments Yeah, that's not, that's not a story of a man, my best friend for decades fininally get to realize my dream alongside him realizing his dream What you're seeing is a bunch of people following money I feel like Like when they come back at twenty sixteen, it was not clear to the world that Trump was going to be president. That seems like a very speculative bet I think that there was something more uniting at won. The relationship had probably personally, you know gotten closer by this time. And also I just think that he liked Trump's ideas. And maybe it was a long shot view in their mind. But once it became clear that Trump was ono something that he represented a bigger political movement And that intertwining with that political movement could prove very useful. I think that's when everything kind of really kicked into high gear about the transactionalism Kind of feels like the White House is in spirit Halloween after Halloween mode. where it's like we got some sh, we got to move back here and our expiration date on how long we're going to be around It doesn't look like we should count on a long term business. So let's just Let's just try to move some product. Let's get real weird And let's try to cash in because it feels like any of our regulatory authorities are awake. We shouldn't count on this going on for that much long Yes That is the vibe that I am. That's my overall general worldview. It feels like this is the age of the thief beyond the aesthetics, which are You know, again to Normies who are not steeped in the sport They are disturbing But really what we're seeing is a new way of doing business. A new way of doing business that happens to be if you're paying attention to this administration Um Yeah, now very very familiar. This is how Trump world works You want to get a pardon buy part of the stablecoin that he runs or donate to a million dollar a seat dinner and then they get out after two months. This is how Trump world works. Trump has even said, you know, it's kind of funny. when Dana White says things like, you know, our relationship isn't transactional, Dana. every relationship with Donald Trump is transactional Everyone with his kids, with everything. they are all transransactional this one is certainly no different A all. UFC CEO Dana White says there is quote, nothing transactional E quote about Trump friendship. whichich feels like the most egregious of all of the lies that we've been. How can that possibly be How can we be talking about a guy whether it's whether it's meme Cins, whether it's World Liberty Financial, whether it's presidential pardons, whether it's the UAE, whether it's the Qatar four hundred million dollars jet. We can go on and on and on. and this is how he governs This is the mechanism by which you do. This is how he allows Trump world to function to say that, oh our friendship removes me from this process while the president is buying stock in your company and pushing your legislation and then putting your show on his lawn, they must think we're all toddlers who will buy the first line of argument that they make The thing that I keep on thinking about as I watch both Dana White and Donald Trump make the rounds and what they do, of course, is they grant interviews to you, but they interviews and order me. and what they trade on Is the idea Still, there are media, there are journalists who respect the office of the president. a lot more than they do And that respectability is a one way street. And it allows Donald Trump and Dana White to benefit fromr this halo effect while they are obviously betraying the very respect that They are still, despite it all being granted. They want you to limit your T by indulging respectability politics But then when its comes time for them to do, I don't talk about Trump obviously When it comes time for them to do politics, respectability features nowhere. Heads I win, tails you lose. That is the game that they want to play and it works And so the concern that I have as somebody who is not as invested in MMA, but has become more than ever before curious about it is the way in which by sheer endurance Donald Trump is extracting Similar sentiment from Adam Silver The commommissioner of the NBA. R? I saw that. Yeah. we're talking about what just happened in game three where Donald Trump shows up and Silver says, he's a lifelong Kicks fan. Let me ask you too, not only as if the Kicks and the sppurs were not enough, you have the president who's going to be in attendance tonight. What were the machinations and behind the scenes there in terms of should he come to the game? Do they talk to you about the president want to come to the game? How does all of that work I found out because Jim Dolan invited him to the game and he said yes. And he's welcome to be here. I think that what makes sports so special, especially when there's so much that divides people is it something that we have in common and we should look for those things that we have in common and build off that. And I also say about President Trump, you know, I've been with the leeague for a long time. I ran MB Entertertainment years ago. He did an I lovekins game spot with us. He was a fixture at MBA t Madison Square Garden. You guys remember all of you when you played here, not Draymond, but back in the old days, he had courtside seats. He was here all the time. He was at drafts. so he's a genuine Kicks fan. And so yes, there's some inconvenience to the fans here, but when looking around this arena, it's packed. So people listened, they came early, they got through whatever extra security whichich is necessary. So as I said, I think we should be using sports to create more of a sense of community with people not less. Again, it reminds me of the conversation we just had about Trump and Dana White. Trump has been around. He's been around for photo opops. He's been around to use the sport to his own benefit He's not the first person to do that I do think he's the first person to then become president and retetcon his fandom grafted onto our memory as if it was always there. So then laer everything that he wants to accomplish And I suppose the last thought I have is I guess I'm glad that he still feels a need to launder Yeah. and what is so important is they can get up there and they can say whatever they want But what they really need, it actually doesn't work unless not just people go along with it. powerful people accept the parameters of the fiction and then demand that the rest of you follow in line. So Adam Silver on this broadcast, He's like well, he's been life as youunicated, been aifelong Ns fan and he's always brring us together. so there is the ultimate example. So then if you say, well G his administration ignored thousands of court orders. They've decimated the DOJ. I you can go on down the list. Why do I have to pretend that this is some kind of noble difference between political entities that care about one another? Why do I have to pretend that this guy is not who he is. Oh, well now you are the one. You're divisive. You're divisive. You're the agitator. You're the one're you're insurrecting the gal Yeah actually. You're the Pablo Torere, official Jan sixer That's what you that's what you are. That That's what this podcast is Yeah And unfortunately, there is no fund that has been attempted to get us paid. We just do it for free. We're doing this and getting possibly the worst deal out of everybody in sports media Yeah. there's not much to it. But you know, I just kind of thought about it too like I don't know I don't know, man. I don't know what My places in the sport anymore If I can be honest, I don't know. I don't know to if someone's like, Well, where do you fit into this sport? I don't know how to answer anym But Um I just can't watch this silently I just can't do it. I cannot I might end up burning my this is I'll just admit it, there's a good chance I could end up just burning everything I've built to the ground. It's very, very possible. Um but I refuse to indulge these fictions. I refuse. I absolutely refuse to go along with Don't you think it's great that were partnered with particular administration and everything they've done and everything they represent and all the harms associated Can't you just be quiet and then let the party happen? Do you want to be the Karen that calls the cops to turn the music down? That's what they want to tell you. But the reality is dude, like I refuse. I don't know what what ability I have, Maybe it's nothing I will not let Donald Trump do what he's doing in this administration to my city and my sport without telling him to fuck off in the end. I refuse. And if I burn everything to the ground in the process, then I burn everything to the ground in the process, I will find a way to make do. Thomas as somebody who has been so far denied credentials to cover this whole event. I didn't apply to be clear. I was gonna to say, I think you in terms of the efficiency of your time, I think that probably that's right Thank you for doing this, and I look forward to our next insurrection Let's do it, Jan seventh next time Batori finds out is produced by Walter Avaroroma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Galindo, Patrick Kim, Neilie Loan, Rob McCray, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor Chris Tumanello Studio Engineering by RG Systems, Sound desesign by Andrew Bersk, Digital strrategy by Bailey Carlin and Andrew Northern, theme song as always. H Jhn Bravo We'll talk to you next time