Therapy and Future Outlook

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Parents can easily manage spending from their own Monzo app and you can deposit regular pocket money for things like taking the bus to school, going to the shops or their first cinema trip with friends. Monzo's award winning kids account. Search Monzo to get them started with money independence. For children aged six to fifteen, parent or guardian account needed first, UK residence only, T's and Cs apply. This episode is brought to you by Pizza Express . School holiday heroes are back at Pizza Express to save half term. Order a full price main for yourself in one of their pizzeries before the 28th of May, and they'll make the price of a piccolo meal disappear. So super kids eat free. Plus, mega teens can enjoy a classic pizza and soft drink for just twelve pounds. Incredible. Josh, school holiday heroes, what we talking. Oh, do you know what ? Yeah I absolutely love for school holiday heroes is now we live in the country, opening the back door, we've got a trampoline. That's my school holiday hero. That gets us through hours of school holiday. What about you? Can I approve upon your trampoline? Yep. Heat wave, bit hot, twenty-five degrees, maybe twenty-two degrees, sprinkler. Run in the sprinkler. Jump on the wet in the sprinkler, dry on the trampoline. Beautiaufultiful, be times. School holidays can be a juggle, but Peter Express holiday heroes help keep everyone happy. Download your code at PeterExpress.com or a Deem within the app . Hello, you're listening to Parent in Hell with Okay Joe, say Rob Beckett . Say Rob Beckett. Don't we? No. Record it. Maybe. Say Rob Beckett . She's talking to a dog. Say Josh Whiticam . No . Okay, fair enough. There you go. Surly teenager. Did you hear it? No, d I I heard nothing. Oh you couldn't hear him? No. Oh he said, Are you filming? You recording? She said yeah. Why do I, if I can't hear very well, shut my eyes and lean forward. I know. Like it's gonna oh, all of a sudden. Yeah. I used to when my car my I had an old car that used to slight break and you'd if you could smell you'd you'd 'cause you smell smoke, yeah. You say to keep a sort of a nose out for the smoke. Right, yeah. If I thought it was happening, I'd turn the radio down But not you know, that's not gonna affect my nose, but it just feels like I'm on I'm on it, I'm focusing. I'll do that. If I'm late for a train, yeah, I'll s I'll stop the music that I'm listening to on my own. To focus on getting on the train. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like, is if the music's gonna slow me down crossing the footbridge. It depends what you're listening to. Yeah, maybe I should go on to my pace set of playlist available on BBC Sounds. Oh yeah, I've got a pace setter playlist. I've taken over the pace setter playlist. Oh, you're such a beebe guy, aren't you? Uh hi you sexy beasts. Love the pod. You asked for intros from older kids. Here's my eldest bundle of joy, Joe, who's about to sit his GCSEs. Oh yes, he is, isn't it, guys? It's Oh, it's horrible. Oh . I should have done a video recording to capture the look of absolute disdain that only a teen can give a parent. Much love. Reem R E E M. Uh from near Reading. PS Her name's Ream. Yeah, like like Dreamy. Like Joe Joey Essex. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He invented the word Ream. I have a vague memory that these are more likely to be read out if sent early in the morning. So I've scheduled a four AM send. Hope it works. Fair play, fair play. Absolutely. I think they could schedule a send. We're not gonna say it was, but heartbreakingly there was another email, but I couldn't make the MP3 work. So Katie Maynard. Oh don't do that to her. Kate, do you know what? Katie Maynard, send it in again. Yeah. Because I felt terrible. And I think we need some more children rather than adults. Yeah, we're done with the adults now. Also teenagers' voices are surely deeper than when we were teenagers. Oh, it's mental, isn't it Rob Burkett. What's going on? George Widdle Coomb, you mug . And that's uh thirteen year old Sam from the World Tiny Temper today. Yes. Question. Go on. What are you gonna call him? Mr. Temper? Mr. Temper? Tiny? What do you call him Tine? Tyne. Tyne. Alright, Tyne. T T. T T I don't know. We'll ask him that. Yeah . Uh I assume his kids call him Dad. He's got two kids. Have you met him before? I've messaged him because he's messaged me on Instagram. But it's hard to get diaries. Yeah, no, I said, yeah, we'll get you booked in, I took his email and stuff. And then gave it to Michael. and look Here we are. A yeah. Let's bring him in. Tiny temple welcome. Straight in. How are you guys? Do you not like that? Is it too raw? I love it. No, it's better. We've done an intro already. I've got it. I've gone. Guess what guess what is hot drink of choice is? Don't look at it. What do you mean you're meant to be guessing? So I don't think it's coffee, I don't think it's tea, because it would be boring if that was the worst game ever. Do you know what? Let's move on then. It's a milky coffee. Um Par mi I I think Horlicks is too left field, maybe hot chocolate. Correct. He loves it. Man after my own heart. Hoty Chucky. Bloody hell, I love it. I've got to have it every day. Just one a day? One a day, yeah. I'm not crazy. Do you have a couple of calories? Sort of. I I I do reckon it's gonna catch up with me as, you know, life progresses, but I work out a lot. I'm like a in s I'm insane . Jujitsu Jujitsu, innit? Jujitsu man, yeah. So I think I should be alright, hopefully. It's why You can take a hot chocolate day, can't you? Yeah, and I don't really have too many desserts. I don't have sweets. I don't snack. So this is like my little That's your little thing. Yeah, my little thing. So what after dinner, if you've got a little excitement for a bit of sweet, you're just not having it. No, I'm not having it, bro. You're just not having it. Unless it's a sticky toffee pudding. Oh that is on a Sunday. But that would be like a Sunday or in a restaurant. No, exactly. Once a week, once a month, Matt. There you go. I bet you've done off menu, haven't you? I haven't, no. Oh, you should do that. Just the same, is it good? I don't know, it's not fair. I talk about what you want to have for for dinner. And we've done that. Yeah. Throw away. Wow. That's their main thing. Wow, you just fucking sit there in like two minutes. We're whipping through that in the first minute and that yeah, bored of that 'cause that's a shit idea for a whole show. Well, you said it, not me. Yeah. Guys, if you call me I'll still probably do that. We were we were chatting before we started. You've had a bit of a break from music now. Yeah. How many kids you got? I've got more than one, less than five. Johnson. Yeah, Boris Johnson, yeah. I like a bit I want to keep a bit of mystique. You know, in a time where everyone divulges everything, you still got to keep a bit of mystique, but um I can say one is seven. One is seven, one is also four. We can work with those now. Okay, that's great. Yeah, one is seven okay. So that may have coincided a bit with your br so did you have a conscious break from bringing out. It was a conscious break, yeah. I got to about thirty, I'm thirty-seven now. And I was just like, you know what? Like everything I dreamt of doing when I was twelve years old, I've pretty much done it. Do you know what I mean I've uh you know, from Olympics to Glastonbury to like getting number one records. I was doing uh 200 meter now Yeah, performed at the Olympics opening ceremony, yeah, in East London, yeah. It's mental. So um did that with you know Danny Boyle, he'll he put the whole thing together. We got this like letter, everything is under embargo, you must sign this NDA. Queen, well, the remaining part of Queen was there, spice girls. It was ridiculous. Like mental. So in terms of like bucket list stuff, I I' Ive've've been like done it and you hear all these stories, obviously when you enter the entertainment world of like, you know, everyone goes through the highs and lows and then sometimes you can have the best career but you just end up in this super dark place. Do you know what I mean? And recreational stuff starts happening, you spiral out of control. I didn't want to be that guy. So I was like, let me just, you know, settle down, let me have some kids and let me just get into like the normal realms of life because prior to that I remember having days when I'd be like super anxious to like go to a Tesco's like I'd be in a mad hoodie I'd be like but now I don't feel like that at all like it doesn't matter if one or two people recognize me or ask for a picture and I think this break definitely helped me with kind of getting rid of all that anxiety and you know. So this is where we went wrong. Yeah. That's what Josh needs to do. You guys just kept on going. We kept on it. Well it's true, because it's hard to you panic about it, panicking about it all disappearing. Yeah, I was panicking about it um all disappearing. I think I still to this day have a bit of imposter syndrome so I've definitely got this whole you know council estate mindset. Well where you come from in sort of plumplumste Abadbey Woods, but my my family's all from there, my nan and granddad. You know Mott is Font Road by the train track line, that's where my nan and grandadad. I always get stuck, especially where my white friends, because you guys are good at that. Like all the lads from my school when they go, Oh do, you know this road next to that and that my bearings are so bad. I can tell I know Winds Common, I know Plumstead Common, I know Plumstead High Street. And I know. I know Rabbit Wood than Plumstead, my Brady Wood S E two is a bit and but it's But I'll tell you what though the other day I did um the side men um halftime show. Yeah, yeah. You know the majority of the or I don't want to say all of them, but the majority of the side men are from where where we're from. The sidemen? Yeah. Didn't all Belgium or if anything you're an underachiever role. Well the s I thought they were all from like a Hartfordshire, KSI's part of Simon, isn't he? Yeah, yeah, so maybe from when I first met KSI, he was living in um like Kent, like Orpenton. Orpenton, yeah, so he'd got a big big mansion thing like that. So maybe he had moved from Hertfordshire, maybe but the rest of them like Zirkar and the rest of the guys they're all from like Belvedere didn't know. There you go, Rob ert Toby Gizzle. He went to he went to a school in Bexley Heath. I mean if I was ten years younger I think I would have been Yeah, you would have been you would have maybe qualified. Yeah, yeah. But it's really annoying. Yeah, but I yeah, I've I'm thirst I was thirsty for it. You'd have made six times the money. I really had to put a lid on the thirst. You don't look thirsty at any point. I feel like I'm constant but I'm constantly trying to rein it back in. So is this natural for you to be calm and considered and making these choices like to have seven years out, or did someone have to convince you? It feels like you're always been quite in control. Yeah, I've always been quite in control. And to be fair, it was a huge risk. Like even getting back to it, it was it did to be honest, I don't feel like I was met with a bit of resistance. I've been fortunate. It feels like there's a lot of love out there for me. But you you know, do kind of feel like you're starting again to a certain degree. I'm just lucky that, you know, I haven't got a sad story. Do you get what I mean? Highs and lows have happened, but I've been very successful. So it wasn't like you got that problem with drink or drugs and then had to stop it would be choked. So have you done what have you 'cause I I don't feel like as someone that's aware of tidy temper that you've sort of gone gone. I feel like I don't know, I just feel like you you're still around but you have you done nothing in that seven to eight years then? So in the seven to eight years I think I basically uh settled down, had kids, picked up jujitsu, um started doing a bit of TV work so coming for your gigs. Yeah. I'm glad to see you back in the music. Yeah, exactly. Can I just say you feel comfortable in the music? Yeah. Yeah. That feels to me where you should be. No, but with I like the reassurance, but like um yeah, set up a studio, so we had studios before in Greenwich, but we were renting those, and then we got one of those horrible letters. You know, we're gonna turn it into residences. Yeah, you've got X amount of months to move out. So we we ended up buying a place in uh northwest London. Um, and so I did that, but that was like three years ago. So in this whole interim period, that's pretty much what I've been doing. What was it like doing that kind of gear shift to like you're, you know, doing huge festivals, you're doing huge gigs, you're doing the Olympics, and then you're doing you know, , nappy changing. Do you know what? Great question. Thank you. I think it was a bit , by the way. Yeah, that's a good thing . Don't give that to Rob. No, I won't. I won't I won't say it again for the whole point. Some of these questions coming your way. You're gonna have to work really hard not to say it. Excited, excited. It was a bit of a shock to the system to be fair. Like like I was saying before, it was a conscious decision, but I didn't quite know what I was getting myself into. No actually to be honest and that's probably the whole premise of the podcast to a certain degree. So the actual reality of it especially as an artist and I think it's quite fair to say maybe not every single artist is like this, but you're quite self-absorbed. It's all about you, you know, it's all about your image, it's all about you know what you're doing for the day. People are telling you your schedule, people are running around after you. So to now have to kind of transfer that transfer that um and then now have to kind of put yourself second yes yeah and then you know then the family comes first. I I will be very honest which was one of the reasons why I wanted to come on this podcast. It was a bit of like a baptism of fire for me. It was like, oh you've got to figure out how to do this because you're so programmed to think and act a certain type of way. So at first I was of the mindset that like I don't want to change any nappies. Like really? Yeah, at first, like I don't want to do this. Like and but then I've now got to a place with the amount of children I have just by default um where you know not like I enjoy it, who enjoys changing nappies, but actually, you know, that bonding time of like the bed times, the bath times, the reading the stories, the changing them, you know, one one of my kids might wake up in the middle of the night and then I'll just go and sleep in their bed. Actually after a couple of years I've kind of adjusted into it and it's the thing I look forward to the most. I think that's totally the c I think we've all it is quite a selfish job that we've all got. Yeah. And it's very easy to you know, by pursuing that, it is quite a I'm doing this for myself kind of thing. Yeah. And then it's a real gear shift. And I think it did take me quite a while to kind of put myself second in that way. What about you? I think it's the same though, it's a bit like, well no, I'll you know, your partner thing, well I'll do that because you've got a gig or got go to work tomorrow if your partner's at home. But like when you were at home not touring and not writing music in the studio and stuff. Like, was it properly 50-50 of the parenting or no? I think my my missus was great in the sense that I think you know we've we've been together for a while and she she kind of knows me and I think like I said I've definitely matured and it is very much now more 50-50 than it can be. Obviously with all of our jobs there'll be days when you have to travel and you know you'll be away for a week, two weeks even a bit longer where you know it kind of tips , but for the most part when I'm around it's fifty-fifty. Yeah. Um so at the start though, when she was saying she didn't w you know, do you didn't do nappies and things like that, like how did she take that? And was it a like a conversation between you both or was it you just slowly got into it? Was it I think it was more my actions. It wasn't me overtly saying it. Obviously I have a lot of respect for my partner. So it wasn't I wasn't like arrogant about it. It was just more the way you know she's already doing it, I'll let her do it. She's doing it, I'll just leave her to do it. But obviously now in hindsight I realise like we're both being affected by it. It's a thankless job as well. Do you I mean I think maybe hopefully one day the kids will go, Oh, thank you for everything that you did. But but versus you know, what we do on a day to day basis, you're instantly kind of gratified, whether it's on social media, whether it's your you know, paycheck that you receive, but this is like you'll put in ever the same amount of effort into it, if not more, but it's thankless. And so I think for me, I kind of convince myself that like you know, it's you know, because she's a mother and she had always been very maternal, this was something that, you know, she would enjoy way more than I would. This is something she would naturally take to more than I would. But now I don't really think like that. It's like that's a good journey together. I think it's great to be honest about that because I think there's a lot of you know um people that would go from the off I had this moment and I felt like this and my life changed. I think it is can be a much longer adaptation to those kind of things. But also like in different generations it was only like by my dad he's got five kids. Yeah. And then like for the first one, he weren't even at the hospital. There you go. He just stayed at the pub and that weren't even like he's being out of order. It was like it was actually a little bit like no don't invade her space, leave her alone in the hospital so it's like within like forty years. You tried to push that one through with Lou, didn't you? No, no, I I was at no I wanted to be there. I was actually in the delivery suite three days before seeing a few others come through. Yeah, just to get a feel for it. Smart man. Just sort of there looking, taking notes for it. But even that, even that, just being honest, I remember when we got to the um uh hospital and we did we did that whole like lindo ing stuff and all that kind of stuff. So I remember we got there and then I brought all my duvets in and pillows and all this different stuff, shower gel, and I remember like the midwife being like oh bloody hell like I've never seen like a man come here so like basically she was basically trying to say like so kind of focused on himself like yeah like so yeah you pulled out And so from the off you kind of feel well I kind of felt I can't you know imbue it on anyone else but I kinda felt like this is not about me this is you know about my partner and the child um and I'm kind of secondary in all of this and then in all fairness as well like the first couple of months when the baby can't really talk or you know kind of let you know what they're thinking or feeling you kind of feel or I kind of felt a bit surplus to requirement. I was like, well what do I really do here? Yeah. They want their mum, like they're drinking breast milk, like that apart from the change in nappy's bit, and maybe going to see them in the night. There's not much that I can do anyway. So let me just get on with what I'm doing. Yeah . This episode is brought to you by you, Home of the Way Out, a brand new comedy escape room series. Hosted by Mel Gedreutch, a group of comedians led by Ed Gamble and Ishkumar battle through fantastical worlds. Clues are hidden in plain sight, assumptions are dangerous, and every mistake costs valuable time. Obviously we've been on TV with Ed and Nish, we've been in green rooms with Ed and Nish. They bloody well don't get out of the green room, are they? They're not gonna get out of the escape room, am I right? Yeah, bloody right, am I? I can see why you weren't booked on the comedy show. Josh, we're in a fantastical world. Can you stop wiggling your glasses doing bums? I'm sorry. Ronnie Corbett's not in this fantastical world. It's 2026, mate. We're in a fantastical world. Um, Ed'll do all right, Nish will panic. Yeah, Ed will laugh in a sort of full mate, Nish will get angry and shout. Perfect. Perfect casted. Perfect casted. They both went to a posh Durham uni. So does that mean you're clever? Nish presents as more academically clever than Ed. Do you know what though, Rob? There's only one way to find out. The Way Out features a stellar comedy cast including David O'Docerty, Amy Annette, Chloe Pets, and Lou Sanders. Watch the Chaos Flow! The Way Out stream for free on you . Your wife's an artist, right? Yeah, she's an artist, yeah. So how did she adapt to that kind of thing? Did she has she taken time off as well or like two of you are creatives? Creatives, yeah. So ' itcause's easy to go, I'm gonna take time off, but if you're a creative, both of you, that presumably have always created, wanted to create, yeah, have you been able to turn that off? Do you know what I mean? Or are you like thinking, oh that's a good idea, I'll come back to that in six years. Yeah, I think I think the beauty of being a creative is that you know you don't you know of course like she's she's done loads of exhibitions and whatnot and loads of collaborations with different brands and whatnot but you can kind of move at your own pace. It's not really like you know you're not really contracted to kind of work with this like production company or TV network and have to be there at a certain time. So that's the luxury that we've always had, but again, kind of just like absolving myself of my sins. I think I also was like, you're an artist, and you kind of can do this in your own time and in your own pace, so I'm gonna kind of prioritize what I need to do because you know technically artists really get recognized when they're 60. You've got at least another, you know, 20, 30 years before anyone really, you know, like the value of the work starts to create this. Is just me kind of telling myself this, by the way. So I was like delusional to a to a kind kind of completely different extent. Um, but that was what I continue telling myself: like, you're gonna make art for the rest of your life, and then as you get older, you know, kind of maybe Tracy Emmons style, then you know, people are gonna start to think and then the value is gonna go up and whatever. So it doesn't really matter about what you're doing for now, it matters more so about me. I'm the one that's on the clock. Do you get what I mean? I'm like, music industry that can age out and that can this and that can that. But I think over the years I've begun to kind of appreciate that like we both have had to make sacrific es, and so you know, we just have to respect one another's kind of passions and ability to work. So there'll be now, you know, there's numerous days in the week where I'll be like, you know what, I'll take the backseat, I'll be at home, I'll do the school run, the pickup, I'll put the kids to bed, you go and do what you need to do. Because I th I think that's there is a you know like a pressure uh a pressure in the music industry as well, because if you're young and you're cool and especially in like rap music and stuff like that. Yeah. No one's really coming out and rapping about yeah I'm you know, doing the school run and kids and having kids ages you up so much. Yeah it does. And so it's like it's almost like not encouraged to be spoken about. Hundred percent. Or you know, in interviews 'cause you've still got to maintain I'm this cool guy that I want people to b want to be like me. And not to let that side out. So there's that that pressure to to do that. And was that part of why you sort of took a step back as well that you didn't know how to sort of com Yeah, you uh mate, I don't know if it's 'cause we're from a similar area, but I feel like you've known me all my life. It's crazy. Like Yeah, exactly that. I was confused after because I was like, This is what I wanna do and then I did it, then I was like, How do I move forward? Yeah, like what do I like okay this is in my mind I'm telling myself this is a young man's game like this is the narrative this is kind of what people talk about I'm not really occup I'm not really operating in that space anymore. I'm in a different space in my life. But then I guess thinking broadly, you know, you had Loyal Carner who released his project recently and I think it was I think he had his son on the artwork or his son did a bit of the artwork and, I think he was talking a lot about fatherhood. So at the same time, you know, music in the same way, like you know, TV, film, and everything else is always evolving and kind of developing, and so I would say when I first started out rap was kind of niche and very kind of about a certain type of thing but from then till now it's so much more broader. Well loyal carn is really kind of he's very open about his relationship with his mum and the family, and he's quite kind of emotionally wrought in terms of what he does. Is there have many of your peers I mean obviously he's a bit young I think have many of your peers had kids? Do you talk about it? Yeah, so um many of my peers have had kids and we talk about it. I don't know if I hear it so much in the music. Like I know Skepta did a thing where and I think he had a video and then he had his pram in the video and stuff like that, and maybe he there's some of it in his narrative, but we tend to talk about it more because a lot of people won't know, but like at this stage, you know, there's a few rappers out of the UK that have done really well. So you know, sometimes we'll there'll be like a barbecue or someone will have a party and then everyone comes round and like the other day I went to see Dizzy at the um the what is it? The rugby and he was performing for I think it was uh there was Saracens versus Northampton. Yeah. And he did a big performance and his kids were there and my daughter was there as well. I saw them at the garden centre. He lives near May. Oh, is he? Oh, yeah. Dizzy Rascal out for the day with his kids. So, or what one of my kids had a birthday party and then he brought his kids and then JME brought his kids as well. And so I c I think in our in the confines of our own kind of private lives, it's all going on. But in terms of like the narrative, and this is why I think it's great that we're talking about this, because I think it's actually progressive to start talking about it because it's it' iss it is's very relatable and you know where I s when I started versus where I am now in my life, as I said I'm thirty-seven, a lot of my fan base would have grown up and will now have kids of their own. Yeah. So if I if I'm not sort of talking about it, then it's kind of like a strain. Yeah. It's inauthentic. It's inauthentic. And with comedy I find comedy and rap similar in a way where you're sort of That's why you do both. Exactly. Even though I think comedy's way harder. I agree. What we do as a comedian is it is in my opinion the hardest thing to do in entertainment. No. Well it's hard to do it well, but it's quite easy to be shit. Because if I see someone rapp ing particularly if they're doing it improvised, I think I can't even comprehend how you would start to do that. But some but am I right in saying that some comedy obviously you'll probably have like a written kind of s loose script but then if someone heckles or if something happens on a bit of the tough yeah some of it is improvised and then remember you don't have the luxury of having like a a backing track or a live band. Rob does. He has a backing track. Rob actually has a full DJ doesn't he not during the gig though, only before. Oh is it only before? But yeah I think it's those elements removed that makes it all the way. But it's whatever's if it comes you know whatever comes naturally to you is easier whether it's other people to determine it look difficult or not. But but I think with with the comedy and rap is like when you first start out you've got this ability whether it's to rap or be funny and the best ones are themselves. You uh in their music or in their jokes, you feel like you understand the persona and it's them. There's that fire in the belly. And like you say, you've come from a place in South East London where not many people get to the level and the success you're at now. And during that journey you will change. It's it's impossible not to. So you can't come out at thirty seven and be that eighteen year old kid from the estate given 'cause you're not living that life and it just looks forced, it looks fake, and it's too much. Well you have to take time and hopefully evolve with your act and who you are, but I think you were you weren't drinking hot chocolate when you were twenty-one, were you? I think I didn't was, you know. Yeah. I'm just an old soul, yeah. Just a bit of an old soul, you know. Just I like what I like. I'm a very simple man. So when you say you're talking , you're going to barbecue and there's dizzy rascal and Jamie and stuff, are you all like this is a bit weird considering where we've come from or do you there is a bit of that, but then it's also just life, isn't it? So it's just like becomes your normal. Yeah, and and and to be honest, and this is no disrespect to anyone, but if you've got to a certain age and you haven't done some of these things, you know, like some people have Peter Pan syndrome or some people are so engulfed in what they're doing workwise, I'm focused on those people, not those people who actually can't do it. I think it's a bit strange. Do you get what I mean? I think it is a little bit strange. So I think based on the ages that we are and all that's been accomplished, it's it was inevitable and it makes sense for us to be in that scenario. So it's not like wow like oh my goodness we've come from this and now now we're here and we're with our children. It's more of a internal acknowledgement. Yeah , and and kind of like gratitude for f for for life and just being so fortunate because there's so many people that grew up around the same places we did that didn't have the same luck. Yeah. So I think it's that and then every once in a while, yes, it will be a passing comment, but it's not like the norm. Yeah. Um I've got two questions which I think you're gonna think are great. Okay, let's see. Um one what what was it that tipped you over to go fuck it, I'm definitely having this time off. I don't care what the consequences could be with you know, not being relevant anymore, losing record deals, people not caring. And then how are you feeling now about potenti ally going back in? Now you've got this sort of you know, you're rooted in with the kids, you've been there day in, day out, and had this time off to go off again with this new album and a new tour. How does it make you feel about the great question? Oh, shake your ass. Lovely in it. Okay, so I got to a point where um although on the on the from the outside looking in everything was going super well, I could do no wrong, you know, seven number one records, sold out the O2, sold out Wembley Arena, did Glaston Bree, did our residency in Ibiza, first , you know, artists like myself to do it on a high uh at a high level in Ibiza. But then personally I felt very robotic. I felt like and and drained and exhausted. I felt like I used to wake up every day and just constantly even though it was my ultimate choice but I felt like I was constantly being like like someone was just dictating my day. Yeah yeah you're on a conveyor belt. Yeah and then and then it's not like I wanted to like live the life that all my other like schoolmates were living, or whatever, it wasn't necessarily that, but I just felt like you know, you can't just wake up and just do this every day, and then you kind of have like a false sense of reality and a false perception because not many people are living how you live. So your norm is not like when you're trying to have like a relatable conversation with your schoolmate, it's just it's just going into the air because you're living completely different lives. I like how much longer can I do this for ? Um especially when I'm in a place where I wouldn't say like not enjoying it is the right term, but I just don't feel fulfilled. Like I don't feel connected to it. It's just I don't feel yeah as connected to it. I feel like I'm a hamster on a hamster wheel and I'm reaping the benefits, but so many other people that are attached to what I'm doing are also reaping the benefits, and am I doing it for me? Am I doing it for them? Am I doing it because like I don't want to let them down? I like the fact that I was even thinking about all of that stuff for me was enough to be like, okay, mate, do you get what I mean? You've found someone lovely, like just chill out, do some normal stuff, go on normal holidays where you're not just going from like airport to venue to soundcheck to to doing the show, back to the hotel, back to the airport, like just just take a break and just do some normal stuff and you might hate it, you might love it, let's see. And then I think getting back to it now, like one of the one of the thoughts or epiphanies I had is you know, I've done all this cool stuff, and I might have kids, and they might not ever experience it. It might just be a thing that happened in the past. Yeah, yeah. That was one of the that was one of the motivations. There's there's so many more motivations like uh uh you know which we can go into but in in relation to like kids and being a parent that was one of the things like wow like I've done all this cool stuff like yeah and my kids may never directly experience it it would just be something I told them oh you know this venue here that we've gone to our dad's our daddy sold it out before like no I can't do that I'm not old I'm not 50. I'm not do you know what I mean? I need to apologize to all those 50 year olds listening. Yeah, but you know , so you know what you was I'm saying it to say, yeah, you know, as you were saying as a rapper, you know, aging out and all this kind of stuff. I was like, nah, man, like there's rappers that are as successful, if not more successful than me, that are older than me, like much older than me. So so why stop? And then I looked at like my monthly listeners and at the time I was on four million or something like that. Um but now we're like at six point seven or something again. But I was like wow, like I've still got like millions of monthly listeners, people that are just listening to all my back catalogue. I kind of owe it to my kids and I owe it to these amazing fans to kind a get back into the mix. And so the other day when we did the sidemen show, I was able to bring my my kids along and they were able to kinda watch it. And some of my nephews and nieces and whatnot. And they were able to watch it, and like I don't know what it's gonna do to them, like because they're still at ages where they can't totally like explain or articulate how they felt or what it means to them, but I'm so glad that like I made that conscious decis ion and that I had that thought because being motivated by your family and by your children, I would say, is one of the one of the most powerful forms of motivation, like wanting to do things for them, and also, if I'm just being totally honest, I think whether or not I came back to music, they would have been fine anyway. But knowing, you know, us especially us to growing up in a similar way, knowing that um through the success of like you know, music and the arts, I've been able to create social mobility for my immediate family and open doors that would have never been open to us before. Like, I wanna be able to do the same thing for my kids. Like I know that I can pick up the phone to across any sector, TV, film film might be a bit harder actually. TV TV Podcast. Podcast. Podcast. Yeah, definitely podcast. Uh fashion, music, and say, oh, you know, my kid wants to come and do like a work experience thing here where they want to come and see how this works or and the doors would be open. Um and like I said I w I think I would have still been able to do that had I not returned but I think returning makes it a bit more easier like just a little bit more like he's still in the mix like you know we might need to uh him to refer to return between one and five children, holidays aren't cheap. They're not Yeah, they're not cheap. That's also the other thing. Yeah, man. You need to keep going because yeah, life has its costs and expenses and the lifestyle you're living as a kind of single man or a man with a with a missus, just kind of going on holidays and staying five, ten days or whatever, when you've got kids, it's a completely different thing. What are your plans musically then for this year? Like how do you how'd you mastermind a comeback like that? Wow, um so a lot of it is um trial and error. I think it fundamentally starts with having what you believe is a very good product, which I would say over the last year or two years I've been working on in the background. So once we set up the studio, which was three years ago, I remember us building it. I was doing all the extension programs. So I was in my kind of like DIY kind of mindset. So I was like, we've spent a shit ton of money on the studio. I'm not gonna pay some like you know studio type interior designer to come and do it. We are capable, we'll do it ourselves. So we're doing all the DIY , sanding the floors, painting the walls. Um, my engineer slash really good friend Richie is way more capable at DIY than I am. So he was picking up the lion share, I was kind of his assistant, and then shortly after that, artists started coming through the doors, as they say, you know, build it and they will come. So artists started coming through the door, we started getting traction and I started hearing all these like bangers coming out of all these rooms while I was like painting walls and doing all this yeah and I was like wait hang on I've I've been tricked like this is mental like I need to be in there doing what they're doing do you get I mean because I can still do it so slowly but surely came up with what I believed was a very good product. Um initially I wanted to talk about family and there is a tinge of it in there and I wanted to talk about, you know, the what my life was then like then versus what my life was like now. But then I I personally felt like again, going back to that mindset of thinking like the whole world revolves around you and whatever, I thought it was a bit too indulgent. And then there was a little bit of a train of thought of what you were talking about, Rob, when you were saying, like, who wants to hear that? Do you get what I mean? Like that's not really the narrative of rap. That's not what you want out of rap. So there was a bit of that. I think my next project will be more like that. Yeah. But this one, I found that I was making more dance leaning music. Um and I felt like I was kind of a bit perturbed by the idea that we've lost like a thousand nightclubs in the UK since the pandemic and we're losing three nightclubs a month. Um, and they're saying that in by 2029 there'll be hardly any left. And so I was thinking of it as: okay, when I was 16, 17, 18, making my tunes where these were the spaces where I would go and test out my records. These were the spaces where sometimes I'd do it for free, sometimes I'd do it for a couple of hundred quid, sometimes I'd get booed, sometimes it'd be 12 people there, do you know what I mean? But it gave me the thick skin that I've got now. It allowed me to accumulate my 10,000 hours. And if we lose these kind of physical spaces where, you know, people of all different races, backgrounds , ages are allowed to converge and enjoy music and be in this flow state and let loose. Um granted everything is digital now and so arguably you can still do the same thing and still and arguably get even more reach, but how are we gonna be able to create artists that maintain longevity? Because what I'm seeing now is artists that you know make a huge splash across social med ia and then come with one or two records, but then because they haven't necessarily built like a core fan base or they don't have other ex experience in other areas of the industry, you know, communicating well, performing well, stage presence, etc. Dealing with rejection and this and that and that. It tends to be not all the time, but in my opinion, seven, eight times out of ten, it tends to be short-lived. So I was like, we need to preserve these sp aces and I kind of want to highlight that in my music and so I I crafted crafted this kind of dance leaning project where I'm celebrating all the dance genres that I've heard from basically when I was a lad to where I'm at now, whether it be you know grime, dubstep, tech house, drum and bass, all all of those kind of sonics. Um and then I've basically sort of conceptualized it where it's like a theme of like a crazy night out. So you know, you're getting ready with you're texting your mates, you're working out where you want to go, you get to the first bit, it's a pre-drinks or a meal situation, then you end up at the first thing, it's either a gig or it's a big club night, then you end up at the after party, then you end up somewhere else, and then it's you know the sun's coming out, and you're like, what the hell has happened? Or not? Um and also I I I think that, you know, over the last couple of years going out and a nighttime kind of culture has started to have like a negative there's negative connotations around it. It's like you know, it's not great for the society, it's just people having a piss up and leads to all of this other kind of um uh anti social behaviour. But like the arts in the UK is one of our biggest exports. It's like a huge soft power of ours. And some of these venues are iconic venues and they're they're going rapidly. Like I saw that in uh Germany, Berlin specifically, they got UNESCO to come and kind of put this give this special title to their techno scene, like make it like a protected, yeah, like a protected sort of heritage place of influence or something. I don't I can't remember the exact um term, but in my mind, I was like the the UK for all the bands and DJs and acts that we've had come out of all of these little pockets of Bristol or Devon or London or Manchester or whatever, we should be preserving it and protecting it in the same way. This is the mad thing about the UK as you go. It's the thing we do the best in the world. Trust me. From literally from the Beatles, it's just the biggest band ever. Ever. Yeah. Like the money they will have brought into the UK is insane. Hundred percent. All the way through and it's still going. But Elton John and Ed Shearer now, like different ages but smashing it with cellular. Or like Adele or like Harry Styles. Whenever we do it, we do it a big so much bigger than our weight. From such a small island. Yeah, it's insane. It's insane. And it's not celebrated enough. Not at all. And if you're not in that sort of five percent of artists that you've named,, yeah your uh the reality is you're earning the majority of your income from live from live performances. And so if we lose all these venues and you have nowhere to play . So lives where it's at for money now really isn't Yeah lives where it's at for money and you're killing the spaces where people can earn a living so it's just a bit shit mate. So I was like you know what? This feels like something that I'm passionate about. This feels like a message I can convey. It's definitely been a part of my come up. Some of my biggest records, mind me to our beef are with Swedish House Mafia, drinking from the bottle with Calvin Harris, have been dance leaning records. Like let me just do this. So that's kind of where I'm at now. And what do your kids think about your music? Great question. Um they think I'm the best artist ever. Fucking two one . They think I'm the best artist ever. I think I f I think they wanna I think really one of my daughters wants to say that Justin Bieber is the best artist ever. But you won't let her. But no, it's not that I won't let her. I think she just feels bad. Yeah, yeah. Because she always goes, Oh, you know, first it's Hugh, then it's Justin Bieber, but I can see the look in her eyes. Like, so if you're in the car and you're driving them along, and you say to them, What should we listen to? Would they say Tony Temper? They say, Daddy, play Wonder Man, play Wonder Man, play Wonder Man. Oh nice. Yeah, so Wonder Man is their go-to track. Um and they watched the video and I did that video years ago with Ellie Golden and we we um I forgot the film that we referenced, but it was one of these films from back in the day about this bionic man. I think it was the bionic man. There you go. So there's lots of like special effects. Oh, I'm gonna ruin the illusion for them now. But there's loads of special effects where I'm jumping out of helicopters and they like watching all that. Yeah, so that yeah, so they're watching it and they're like, Daddy, is this real? Yeah. Did you really do that? Are you a superhero? I'm like, yes. Yes I am. Music videos don't really happen anymore now, but you think it's mad because more it's just people sing like a couple of lines from a song in a TikTok. Yeah. More so than the full video. A hundred percent. It feels like there's a massive I don't know because I does it feel like a different industry that you're coming back into. It feels like a different industry, yes, in t in entirely pretty much. Um I'm fortunate because again during my hiatus I also set up a publishing company so we like a lot of people It's the busiest hiatus anyone's ever had I know but I'm just like I can't be idle. The devil makes work of idle hands. So I can't be idle. Like I have to do stuff. But in that interim period, we ended up um producing tracks for Drake. Like one of our producers made Passion Fruit for Drake, which is Drake's like third biggest song ever. So from out the gate, like we were already doing really well. Chris Brown, Sean Paul, we've got a Drake and Michael Jackson cart. Like we've done we did we've done quite a lot of stuff. So um in both of my hats on , like almost like an exec and and then an a front man artist, the industry is not a hundred percent different. But if you're an artist that's trying to break through now, it's a completely different time. It's entirely saturated. Um before we had um a different type of gatekeeper, like a more traditional gatekeeper, which I don't necessarily agree with, but I think what was interesting about the time is to cut through you felt like, you know, the old guard had to acknowledge you the the fact that you were talented and and therefore because you were talented and this is just my opinion, no disrespect to anyone. Um, but because they believed you were talented, then you would now get these opportunities where by now I think it's a mix of a bit of a popularity contest. Um, you know, who's the most popular, who's getting the most engag ement, yeah, regardless of like the quality of the actual product. Is it more about how do I sell this now than it is about the product? Yeah, I I think so. I think your product doesn't necessarily have to be great, but if you're a great marketeer and you have a a great engaged fan base, you could be maybe not operating uh at the same scale as the Beatles, but in theory, you could be selling out some of the same venues. Well, we've got a bit of a fan base from this. What do you reckon the chances of me and Josh bringing out a swing album together? Why not? She liked an old rap package. I can tell you why. Why not? I can tell you why not. It'd be shit. It'd be shit, man. Well, you've got a fan base. This is the point. This is the point . And the thing is in Britain we love the like novelty records. We love the bit serious one . Oh. Okay. That is funny, that is a comedy. We could roll it out as a novelty thing. Can you know me do Mr. Bo Changles , you know, my way. Me and Mr Jones. Just uh you singing my way in a full tuxedo on a stage black and white shot. Brilliant. Okay, yeah. What I what I will say about what you're saying. Chip in a bit of money on the old angels. Accomplish that? I I've I think'll leave that one. Okay. I think I'll leave that one. But what too many misses already. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Too busy with Drake, are you? Nah, it's not even that. It's not even that, honestly Rob. But what what I will say about what you're saying is that that is is what exciting about where the industry is at now. Like if you've been able to get yourself to a certain point, you can literally do anything and you can just have fun. And so I think where I'm at now, I'm not trying to I'm doing it because I love it more than anything else. It's the thing that I wake up and I can do like you're saying about comedy very naturally. And you know, you know, Picasso or whoever they never stopped making paintings, they didn't get to a point where they were like, Oh, I've you know I've done 78 now, it's enough. Just keep going. Um, but the fact that like you know, you can just kind of do whatever you want as long as it makes you feel good, the barrier to entry is kind of so low now, it's super easy to up load a record onto one of these streaming platforms as opposed to before where you had to press up the CDs and the vinyls and and obviously some people still do that but yeah it's it's the greatest time to be a creative I think it's just the hardest time to cut through the noise. Yeah. And what about your kids? Would you feel excited or would you feel like oh no, if they went into music or I suppose art ? I think if my ki I I would prefer and I don't, you know, wanna sound like one of those parents but I think it would bring me more joy if my kids went more down their mother's route of like, we wanna just make art and like, you know, we wanna kind of exist in that space. Yeah. Um I think I think I think m being a art a musician I think comes with too many superficial presses. Very look at me, look at me. For them for the most part obviously there's artists that you've never seen their face before or whatever, you know, but I think for the most part it is about image, it is about you know not how much you weigh per se, but you know, do you look good? You're getting all this direct critique on your comments, or you've got a spot here, you know. Have you put on weight? Have you it feels like you have to have super thick skin to be able to kind of survive and navigate that? And I I I I did it because obviously I felt like I had the talent to be able to do it and compete in that space, but I also did it because I was shit at football and I was like I was like this is probably one of the only things from where I've come from that can change the whole trajectory of my entire family's life, and luckily we've been able to do that. But I think where my kids don't have those same sort of pressures. Well, that's the interesting thing. Your kids are entering a completely different world in terms of their own families and their where they're growing up. Yeah. To what you did. Yeah. And how how comforta ble are you with that? Like, or is there part of you that's going, you don't understand? Yeah . Um yeah, there's there's a part of me that feels like you don't understand, but I think ultimately, you know, once you have kids, and I think I can kind of speak for everyone here, you kind of just want them to be safe and you kind of just want them to be happy. And I think the fact that there's a part of me that's like, yeah, I definitely want you to prove yourself, and you know, you've got our DNA, and so you've got to be beer a. Yeah, I've I I've taken them there once. Have you taken them? Yeah of course I have. Yeah of course. They're like this is shit. Take me back to the suburbs. Take me back to the pool and the garden. But but I think I think I think that ultimately I just want them to be like happy and safe. And so whatever brings them the most joy and makes them feel the most fulfilled, I would I would encourage them to do that. Of course, you know, they've watched K-pop demon hunters and now they wanna somewhat be artists and they wanna do things like that. Um But I think I think I would just try to ensure that I'm kind of around it as much as possible. Not like a Michael Jackson's dad or like Destiny's child, you know, Beyonce's dad, but just kind of like um someone that's in their ear and someone that's kind of observing their surroundings and trying to kind of protect to a certain degree from afar. Would you be more if they went, I want to be a dentist and a lawyer, would there be a part of you that goes, Oh, that's a relief? I think so, yeah. I think so, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, like stay well away from this. We all know that we all know the highs and lows of entertainment . I'm sure we've all been there when the agent isn't calling and it's a dance with the devil. Yeah, it's a dance with the devil, man. It's uh that we're all super fortunate and blessed to be sitting in this building having this conversation right now with all the years that we've put into this thing. Um how do you feel about returning to live performance? 'Cause I think that's the one of the hardest things to get your confidence back into because it's a lot of you know a lot of rust when you've not done it for a little while how you feeling about going back into it. Live the live element of it is the bit that I love the most, which again is why I feel this project is apt. Because I feel like my music has been kind of well received, but I think until you see me live, you don't you've not exper you've not had the full experience. Like my live performance is off the chain. Like I will say that with confidence with my chest. So getting back to it, like we went on tour in Australia last year. It was the most random lineup, by the way. It was like me, Pitbull, Mariah Carey, Wiz Wiz Khalifa It was a bit of like a throwback thing, but it's most random. I hardly saw her. Hardly saw her. I saw her performances. But Pitbull was he like he's smashing it now and he pitbull. Pitbull. smashing Especially in the UK with everyone dressing up with a hat. And like suits and all this kind of stuff. We've actually got a show in Hyde Park this summer as well. Oh yeah, he's coming up yeah. BST, yeah. But um yeah, I got b so when I did this thing in Australia, I think it was like November or whatever, I'd like the love was ridiculous. Like it was we made like the national news there. It was insane. And it was just like for me, oh you've still got it, man. Like there was there was there was not an ounce of fear or doubt before I stepped onto that stage that like I wouldn't be able to do what I have done in the past. And if anything it makes me want to perform more because I feel like the more that people are able to kind of see that whether it's like online, even the Sidemen show that I did the other day, like it was ridiculous. Like the halftime show went so well. And what's crazy about their fan base is they've got, you know, a lot of the youth. So they've even got like the 13, 14, 15-year-olds. And the craziest thing happened where half I would say 60% of the people in their chat because it was a live stream was like, Who the hell is this guy? Who is this guy? What who did they bring to do the half time Who's this old dad? And then what was amazing that happened is then, you know, after a about 30 minutes, it swayed, it kind of went back to 50-50 and then to like 40, 60, um, 60, 40 Also as well they like when they sit like oh we can do it. Exactly. Exactly. But you've got twenty years of experience of performing that There you go. So I think in short, all I'm basically saying is that like didn't have any worries there and in fact I think that's gonna be one of the things that kind of is like kinda tips it for me, to be fair. I want to talk to you about mindset there, right? Because I think if you it the difference between a rapper approaching that and a comedian , if that had happened to Rob and he told me the story, he'd be like, Oh, it was awful. Yeah. I was so stressed and I did it. I think it was fine and sort of like that. But the first bit was just tragic, and everyone was saying, Who the fuck's this once. Who? If like if I'd done that tour of Australia and I thought it gone well and Rob asked me, I go, yeah, it's fine. Well the thing is with a with a song, a song always works . If it's if it was a hit once, it's always a hit forever, essentially. With the joke, it's a lot of it is the time and of when you save it. And I came in and I said, How was the gig last night? You wouldn't go, I was brilliant. No, but it's it's hard to be brilliant just talking at a room. It's like, you know, like if you've got like in a stadium and you've got your 'cause that's what you say, you've got the music behind you and that, I think Where you could f fluffer the line but it could get covered it's not the end of the world. And there's a lot of noise everywhere. It's just that it's the silence of nothing when you say a joke that don't work the kill joke. And I think maybe I think maybe I think maybe for you guys maybe the the kind of deciding factor might be a stand in ovation. Maybe. Is that what you you would how measure it? Yeah. It will soon come. Also as well though, you are, and I think you've made the right decision, where you're coming into this with an appreciation because you haven't had it for five, six, seven years. Where when you're doing it every night, it becomes your normal, which is mad. And my our normal is you know, you're on this toilet at the moment, Josh, every night you go out to thousands of people, make them laugh for an hour and a half, and then they have a big cheer, sound ovation and then you go home. That is mental. Yeah. But then when you have a break from it. But you can get used to it. Exactly. But in so having that time and that break is so important to be appreciative. Whatever it is you're doing, yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. Made me way more um um grateful for everything. Like yesterday I got um a second stripe on my purple belt for jujitsu and I put out a little post on my stories which was like this you know this season of my life I'm appreciating all the wins big or small it doesn't matter how big or small, just because like going back to the kids, once you see the miracle of like childbirth and like that now becomes the most important thing in your life, for me, all I care about is their health and their happiness in their life. I just want them to be happy, healthy, and I want them to be loved, and I want them to have peace of mind. Anything that happens for me on top of that is a win. Could be anything. Oh, you've been invited by this company to go on a holiday , I would never take it. But I would be like, oh, this is a nice offer. I'm really grateful. Wow. Oh no, especially you know. Yeah, so I'm just in a suit, like in this lovely, amazing space of like almost Zen space of just gratitude. And like I'm not necessarily chasing anything. Like I said, we have our own studios. Go on other days where I've because again I had so much anxiety of like knowing that I was on the clock on someone else's like budget. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Or on my budget, but that they were taking from like t you know, my my future earnings and y you know, you you had that A and R the standing there, you know, hoping that by the end of the session you would have produced a hit. I can just walk into my studio now , see some of the best artists in the UK occupying some of the other rooms, take off my my shoes, be there for the entire day. And if something good comes out of it, it's great. If not, I'll come back tomorrow and try again. Did you did you do any therapy in your time off or is this all your own thing? No, I did, I did. And would that be sitting down talking to a therapist Um At the time because it was like pandemic times a lot of it was Zooms. Ah okay, yeah. And that's really helped. Yeah, I think so. I think so. Um I think yeah, I think therapy is good because again what we do of course is a community of us, but it's quite a lonely Yeah do you kind of agree? Lonely in the job, but also lonely in your journey. Yeah, it's just only someone else someone else that come from where you come from, living the same life you've got. It's kinda yeah, it's kinda lonely. Like one of my best friends is like or best friends from school is in prison for life. Like like English lad, like he's in prison for life and we speak on the phone uh you know, once a week on a Sunday we get on the phone. And again it's that same thing, like wow, like I saw, oh you did Dragon's Den, 'cause obviously he's watching the TV. Oh so you did Dragons Den. Oh I saw your performance on Graham Norton. Oh this is so sick and like it's such an emotional like yeah time in my week. Yeah because I'm like oh bro like he was even around from pass out. Like he ended up going to prison just after pass out. I remember I met him in Newcastle. He came to see like almost like the official launch party, then after that he was gone. So we talk on the phone and I'm just like you said there's a kind of survivor's guilt there where it's like oh wow like I just yeah I can't believe that I'm everything I'm telling you is like stuff that you would have never imagined and you're you're kind of where you are and you're not able to experience this or kind of do it for yourself. So I think therapy was great because yes, it's super lonely in the journey and we're very fortunate and privileged in various different ways. Very lucky. But um it's it's it's nice to kind of just express yourself to someone who they probably are judgmental, judgment communities therapists, they probably are super judgmental. But yeah, I just think they're they're probably talking to someone who's worse than me as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So just have that I'm not gonna be the worst conversation I've had this day. I like that. I like that. Depends on the week. Um you guys do therapy as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's really helpful. It's really motivated you to do it? Oh, I was in a dark place 'cause I hadn't decided to take seven years off. So I was I was everything that you were trying to avoid. Mm-hmm. Burned out . Mm-hmm. Totally lost in it. Completely hyped by the whole thing. Yeah. Couldn't get out of the mindset of it all. But I would never have been able to take that time off. I wasn't not in the place where I I No find that very impressive but that's why I put too much of my worth still now probably in work. Yeah, which is like I did then. So I not at all like I did then. Yeah. But uh then it was out of control. Yeah, because but w you know with what you're saying, there's a point where it starts to define you and then your value kind of is directly associated with that. And I was very worried because this thing is so up and down. So if all of a sudden you're not doing uh venues to thousands of people , yeah. So then what does that mean? What does that mean by who you are? Am I just trying to keep this going to avoid this pain? Yeah, I guess that is the thing, isn't it? Maybe I need to be in a position where this is going to happen and I actually am not putting my whole worth in this. Yeah, and then you have to I'm not telling you what you have to do, but I think for me, I realize that I have value as Patrick. Like I'm just I'm a person, I'm a man, I'm a I'm a son, uh, I'm a father, I'm a I'm a brother. Do you get what I mean? I'm a I'm a friend to so many different people. Whether I'm this like high flying musician or not. And to kind of get back to that kind of essence of who you were originally, I think is is a is is a very important thing, man. I think you need a comedy name so 'cause of his Patrick but tiny temper and then at least you've got a little bit of going on as Josh. But there's not Josh. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I think it's too late to rebrand. It's never too late. It's never too late. It's never too late. Trust me. Um final question, Tani, we always ask this to everyone. Patrick. Patrick, um what's the uh what's the one thing your partner does as a mother that you think that's amazing? I'm so lucky to have kids with you, and what's the one thing she does that's slightly annoying? And if she was to listen now, she'd go, He's got a fair point with that. Um I will start by saying she is very intentional with them, she kind of listens to everything that they say. Like she wants to know everything that happened at school, like ev down to every last detail, which I think is absolutely amazing. Cause for a long time I did not have the capacity for that. I mean, what happened? What did your friend say? What happened? What did the teacher say? This and that and that amazing. I like the fact that um she also will just make stuff with them, like create with them, draw, like let's just draw, let's just play with play though. L'ets just oh what did you make today? Let's do that. I think that's incredible. And then the thing that I'm a little bit perturbed about is that she gives them lots of chocolate and sweets. In the mornings. Yeah. In the mornings. So I'm sure she will hear that and be like, that's a fair point. I will I'll never be able to get my head away. It's hard to defend chocolate to kids in the morning. Exactly. Well good. I'm glad I've got you know. Well you're brewing up a lot of chocolate in the other part of the kitchen. Do you know what? I usually have my hot chocolates in the evening. Oh boy. Not afraid of the sugar. Before bed. You know what? I should probably be, but as I said, I'm I don't have sugar in anything else, pretty much, apart from natural sugars. Like don't like if I ever have tea, don't put sugar in the tea, don't have too many desserts. So this is the one little thing. Tiny absolute pleasure. Been a joy. Any live shows that I can go and see as well? Yeah, I mean come and see me at BST, come and see me at Boardmasters. Um if you're up north, because I'm sure you have loads of northern fans. Absolutely, yeah. Um come and see me. I think we're doing a BST in Leeds or something, so come and see me there. And then we will be I will be doing my own tour back end of the year. I think we're gonna be touring again in November. So we could go on the socials and they'll find out. Yeah, exactly. Just hit me up. Come and find me, man. I'm here.