Jalen Hurts and Team Building Dynamics

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Hello everybody and welcome to the PHOY Eagles podcast on a beautiful Monday, live from the Xfinity Studio and presented by Ashley and Pet365. This is the PHOY Eagles show Bow olf? EJ Smith. It's interior offensive line day. We'll be talking about the guards and the centers. Is there a possibility at the Eagles at 23 or thereabouts. Want to make an effort for Venga Yoane. There you go. Venga Yoane. Strong association. We'll talk about that. Talk about the state of that position as the Eagles try to potentially plan for a life without Landon Dickerson. Alr Steen is on the final year of his rookie deal. Lots of interesting short-term, long-term implications there. Did you see uh you see some pictures of Landon Dickerson at the uh the the the royal wedding this weekend. The royal wedding. You know, like I guess you could call Lane Johnson a royal member of the Eagles at this point. I think he's a Russian. You know, he has a regal playing style. I I like that I like where you're going with that. I did see the pictures.ed like Lo aok very nice wedding. The thing that jumped out to me was like the uh the seating facing each other, and there at the center of it, like there's like quadrants of seating. Did you see that? No, it's like there were quadrants. Reception, not the uh , I think it was the ceremony. Oh, the ceremony. There were quadrants and it was like a Oh and they were in the middle. They were in the middle of the kind of like a like a Shakespearean globe theater thing going on. If you say so. Yes. I thought it was nice though. I thought it looked nice. Yeah. It looked like a very nice wedding. Very uh very like fitting for Lane Johnson in that it was like you know he like it has like the country feel to it but it's like got a very like classy feel as well. Okay. Yeah I really enjoyed seeing playing like spotting an ex-eagle, yeah, those pictures, yeah, and then like oh Nate Gary got the invite. That's fun. I love that. Yeah, Todd Harriman's looked good in those pictures. I mean looked awesome. Todd Harriman's one of the most handsome guys going around. Yeah. And his look looks great in his post playing career, no doubt about it. Yeah. You know who I thought looked great? Who? Isaac Sayamalu. Yeah, he looked happy. I mean, first of all, to get to see a smile on Isaac's face. Yeah, it's rare. That's fantastic like boy. I wish he would show that bad boy off more. Yeah. And he had those he had those tight cornrows going. Yeah. Yeah. Cause at first I recognize him. At first I was like, who is that smiling man with the corn resonance. Yeah. That's Isaac Sam Malo. Yeah. Yeah. Good for him. That's great. So a little uh little kamu Guruge Hill. Oh, sing the song. Good song. Kamu kamu kamu kamu kamu garouge hill . I'll go to the wedding, I guess. That's a Smith favorite. Um Brandon Brooks. No Dan is, unfortunately, but maybe maybe he had plans. Yeah. The Stouts? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure. I mean it was very unsurprising that they were there, but yeah. Yeah. It was nice to see them there. I bet that I bet that was a fun time. Oh yeah. I'm sure that there will be more content to come out from that. Like mm there'll probably be some videos from the reception. Okay. You know, maybe uh as time goes on, people will be more f more comfortable to share some of the the fun parts of the wedding too. So yeah, it was fun. What's your what's your wedding personality at a as a guest? Ooh, that's a good question. Um I'm a big crier at the reception, which I know sounds like strange. At the reception or at the ceremony. Well both, but reception, yeah. Like parent parent child dances. Oh my god, they they just knock me out. I will I sob. So yeah, cry at those. Uh we need to be far apart from each other because we'll just we are both crying. We will just both be crying. Um yeah, I I'm like you guys people who listen to the show know I'm very romantic, so I like I like a wedding. Um I don't dance that much at a wedding though. Um I dance when my wife wants to dance and that is the that's the that's the bar. Uh so yeah, but I think I'm a good time at a wedding. I think I'm I'm thoughtful. You know, I make sure everybody's good. I try to make I try to be the glue guy at the table, you know? Will you busting the table? What? What do you mean? Like I'm like, you know, making sure everybody's having a good time, having conversation with as many people as I can. Yeah. If somebody needs something, I'm not like busting the table. I have to figure out what you meant by that. No, I'm not like a you know, I'm not bringing food or anything, but making sure everybody's good. Yeah. Okay. All right. Sweet. Let's talk about Dontavian Wicks. Yeah. He goes making this trade on Friday late afternoon, sending a fifth round pick this year, a sixth round pick next year to the Green Bay Packers for Don Tavian Wicks, the wide rece iver, and also signing him to a one-year extension worth up to, and I think we're waiting on some specific details about the what the up to is here, but up to around $11 million . And I think we can read the tea leaves that this this does feel like it makes it more likely that Eagles are preparing for life without AJ Brown. However, I think it's all it's also okay for us to at least entertain the possibility that that's not the case. And if it is not the case, this is a huge departure from the way that they have built the roster. And I think we can talk about this in What's Brewing presented by Wawa . Because you know that the Eagles under Howie Roseman with Jalen Hurts as the quarterback have always had a very narrow target share. Now, part of that is because they've got AJ Brown and Devontae Smith and Dallas Goddard. And anytime you're not throwing the ball to those guys, you kind of wonder why that is the case. However , I think there are reasons why that is not the most efficient way to go about building things. However, that's been talked about at the owners' meetings that they have not had enough depth at that position. You think about how things worked in Green Bay, where it was much more spread the ball around. There were four capable wide receivers who all brought something a little bit different. Do you think that it it is possible that that is what the Eagles are trying to do, or do you think it really is kind of feta compli A AJJ is is gone and this is this is just them preparing for that. So I think you can look at it either way. Because what I would say is that like the the savviness that Howie Rosen builds our roster with they have both options available to them still. Um I think that's the first that's the important thing to say first is that like you know Fran mentioned it on the show uh on Friday after the trade that Dontavian Wicks can live in a receiver room with AJ Brown. Like, you know, if you have those three guys , that's a very good receiving trio. So it's not to say it's like an impossibility. It's not pushing AJ out the door that you traded for Dontavia and Wicks. But to be honest with you, the more I thought about it over the weekend, the more I felt like I honestly probably couched it a little bit too much on Friday's show. You know, to bring our listeners behind the curtain a little bit, like we shoot like uh you know reaction videos, like shorts uh for YouTube and make sure you you go find those videos and like them for us. Juice the numbers for us a little bit there. Um, but yeah, when I shot so I shot like a quick immediate reaction to it. And I said something like, you know, it certainly seems like the Eagles are preparing for life after AJ Brown. And then I thought about it more and more, and then I was like, ah, maybe I'll soften that a little bit. You know, like are the Eagles doing that? You know, asking the question instead of saying it definitively. And the more I thought about over the weekend, the more I'm like, that immediate reaction, that that one I sent first, like, that one, I think it's safe. I think that's fine. I think it's fine to say that it's it's becoming clearer that they are preparing for life after AJ Brown. I think I think the the fair way to say it is that if they if this is not the precursor to an AJ Brown trade, yeah, the Eagles are doing something they have never done before with Howie Roseman because you're now talking about like committing to four guys on the roster. Yeah. As veterans, you know, you're paying Hollywood Brown real money and you're committing to Duntavian Wicks for paying him real money the following year. Right. And so you could you could you could squint and say maybe this is them preparing for AJ Brown being gone next year and you're locking in ahead of time, and that's a possibility. And certainly they it makes sense for them to be injury-proofing the group a little bit, and maybe it means that they don't like the wide receiver class here, and this is this is what they want to lock in. But in terms of Howie Roseman maintaining roster flexibility, yeah, and how much he cares about that , for them to do this preemp tively , it really would be against the way that he usually builds a roster. Yeah. Yeah. And I think what we should say, you know, because there will there will be people who make this argument, so let's uh acknowledge it, they're not gonna give him away. They're not gonna just trade him to New England for nothing. Like, so there is obviously that possibility that the Eagles won't get what they want in an AJ Brown trade and it'll come back. But uh setting that aside, because I think that it is likely at this point that the Patriots and the Eagles will work out a trade that works for both sides in terms of compensation. . Yeah I think that they've done I honestly think like if they trade AJ for a future first and then they use a top 100 pick on a receiver, that you know, maybe it's Chris Bell, maybe it's Omar Cooper, maybe it's I think Denzel Boston's been a name that's been linked to them a lot recently. Um, if they add, I would say either a first or second round receiver and your room is Devontae Smith, Dontavian Wicks, and then a high draft pick that has a lot of upside, that is a pretty solid receiver room relative to other other teams in the NFL. So um for that reason, I think again, it's it they've maintained flexibility with this, but I think it is uh preparing for the life after age. And I think that you're you made a good point that it could be next year. You know, it could be even let's say that the Patriots don't give the Eagles what they want in a trade, and then there is like a real push, like, all right, AJ, come back for another year. Let's run this back for one more season. Maybe a lot of those, and this is speculation. This isn't informed speculation here. Maybe a lot of that up to 12 million dollars for Don Tabian Wicks, maybe that is a lot of like incentives that reflect you might be wide receiver two on this team in twenty twenty seven. Um so I think that that's also a possibility. But yeah, but it's hard to imagine Wix agreeing to that if it is yeah fully incentive lately and he doesn't know what his role is going to be. Right. Yeah. Would be a and and it's not like he's got some you know hokey agent. He's got one of the high powered agents. I would be surprised if it is if it is all fake money. I I think that the the other possibility here is that this is them preparing for the possibility that the AJ trade conversation becomes more live again during draft weekend. Yes. Right. So if it you could you could I mean again, this is pure speculation. You could argue that this is like, okay, they've got to deal with the with the Patriots, worked out for June 2nd and this is them filling that hole. It could also be, hey, what if a team who thinks they're out doesn't get a wide receiver they think they're going to get, all of a sudden they call and and come up with an offer, a pre-June first offer that's going to make it worth our while to do it pre-June first when we gotta take off take on all this this dead cap money. Yeah. And we can't scramble then to get a wide receiver. We have a guy in place so that we again we don't have to reach when we're on the clock. Yes. And I would argue that the price on Dontavian Wicks in a world where that happens go is higher post-draft if the Eagles are more desperate. Right. Or Dontavian Wicks could be a target for another team. Right. Which could explain the timing here. So um yeah, I think all of this matters, you know, and I we're kind of reading tea leaves, but I think it's important. And you know, one thing I uh one other thing I wanted to say about like the up to 12 million dollars for Dontavia and Wicks, like usually the reason that that number, just like to explain it to our audience, like usually when that number doesn't come out , it's because there's really like nobody who has an incentive to put it out, right? Like the team doesn't want to put it out because they really don't want to like cross the agent. And then the agent side, like a lot of times you're happy that the 12 million up to 12 million is out there. So that's usually why it takes a little while for us to get that information. Okay . So you feel you feel solid about this group? Yeah. I mean, it's not what the Eagles have had. You know, I said this on Anthony's show. Like Eagles fans are used to having the best receiver duo, if not the best top three in the NFL for the last few years. This is probably more middle of the pack, but it's still a solid group. I mean, I think Devontae I think it's all about Devante, man. We got we're gonna we're gonna have if if this happens, we're gonna have all summer we're gonna have all summer to talk about it. Yeah. But boy does a lot hinge on Devontae being who they think guy is who they think he can be if he is the main part of the offense. Yeah, because I was about to say I think Devontae ha is an underrated receiver across the league, and I think he's capable of being, you know, one of those true one type receivers if he's in the right system with the right usage. I think they believe the same thing. And yeah, you're right. It's gonna come down to whether or not their evaluation on the upside he still has is actually correct. Um the last thing that that crosses my mind is if AJ Brown is back and this is the room, I'm curious about I I we gotta look into if Hollywood Brown has like how much is guaranteed because I think there's a there's a world in which they bring both of those guys back. Wicks is clearly the wide receiver three, and then it's not worth keeping Hollywood Brown. Yeah. Yeah, that's that is a that's a good point. Um so yeah, I mean I think it's like I don't I'm not closing the door on AJ. I don't think that oh the wicked trade makes like, you know, it solidifies the path, right? Whatever. Yeah, but I mean I think that meant I met ninety turkeys. Yeah, and I remember when you wavered about the Elijah Moore signing. I remember that. Yeah. I'm old enough to be a good one that was still I was I've still consistently been higher than you on this happening. Yeah. Um I'd say you're at ninety . Yeah. I'm at ninety. I'm not higher or lower than that. Okay, well then I'm ninety one. Okay. You can be you can be the one that gets to be right. Uh that'll do it for what's brewing, presented by Wawa . Take yourselves over to a Wawa today. And we will take a break here on the PHLY Eagles show. On the other side, we get into this interior offensive line class. Would it make sense for the Eagles . Dip into the guard waters early on. Let us know in the break who your favorite guard in this class is, and find out on the other side why guards are different than almost every other position when it comes to evaluating draft prospects. Good tease . You know that we are narrowly focused on the NFL draft during these next couple weeks. And that's what it's the draft is all about finding that that hidden gem, that perfect deal. This is what Howie Roseman's year is all about. Getting the right deal. 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It allows you to find the nearest location, order ahead, and when you sign up, you get a free small ice bottom line make this sweetest season the best with Rita's ice custard and happiness be cool go to Rita's back on the PHOY Eagles podcast on a Monday let,'s check the super chat because this is I believe related to the Don Tabian Wix discussion before we move on from the guards. Pat Finis, our old friend, says, Knowing what we know now, if you wanted to acquire a manion wide receiver from Green Bay. Wo youuld rather have made this trade or paid what New England gave to Romeo Dobbs? Paid what New England gave to Romeo Dobbs? I'd probably make this trade. I I agree. Yeah. I liked Romeo Dobbs. Um and I think he probably is like probably more in line with what I would envision a manion receiver looks like. Yeah. But like stylistically, uh yeah, he's I mean he's just a more well rounded player. But I think when I think of like what I'm expecting to see from like manion receivers, they are mostly guys who can do enough in the run game to be on the field, like you know, on on every down and and then also really the thing that stands out to me is guys who can basically get away from people on crossers, you know, run after the catch. And I think of Romeo Dobbs more of that than I do Dontavian Wicks . Yeah, I mean Romeo Dubbs is a more productive player from the same team. Uh but like even just stylistically, like Dontavian Wicks to me, honestly, he seems more like a Nick Siriani player with the hitches and being able to box people out. Um I I think like if I'm Sean Manning, I want receivers who are capable of really creating after the catch. You know, taking advantage of the city. Yeah, I mean that's true. And that is and as we talked about in the emergency pod, Dontavian Wicks is towards the very, very bottom of the league in Yak per reception. This is not a guy who's going to be a factor after the catch. Um Romeo Dubbs signed a four-year $68 million deal, $39 million guaranteed. Yeah. Um I wouldn't want us wanted to sign him to that deal. I don't think so. I don't think you don't want to you don't wanna commit that long either. I think I think the Wix thing is is totally fine. Yeah, I think that's again he's very young, he's not yet twenty-five, there's a funny upside here. Um but yeah, if you're telling me only one or the other, I would I would rather do the the the Wix deal. Yeah, the all twenty-two heads out there, and you know, Fran is the king, regal member of the staff, uh among them, really like Don Tavian Wicks's like the like the subtleties in his route running. Yeah. Like all weekend I was seeing people who like I respect and who people who break down a lot of film saying like ah he's such a fun player. So no I think the Eagles they they've added somebody it's a significant addition for the room as we said. Uh but the drops. He's got some he's got a real history of drops. Those drops, yeah. Another super chat from T C says, Do you guys think Howie would only and a very generous donation. Thank you, T C do you guys think how it would only trade AJ to one of his preferred teams? For example, if the Browns offered the desired compensation, would we do it? Why would the Browns not be a preferred team? Oh, AJ. AJ. Apologize. Um Honestly, I don't I don't know what the deal is here because I I think there is a case that the way that it has been sort of quiet from AJ's side, and the Eagles are also not making a big stink about things the way they message things at the owners' meetings. I think there is a world where they are they are trying to work together to to make it so that he gets to a place that he wants in exchange for him not blowing up the leverage. Yeah. I think that's a possibility. I think that's a good reading on it. Um I think that is probably knowing the way that how it works, probably the most likely thing. Yeah. But I also think there is a world in which we you know, we get a great offer, we can't pass it up. I think that's absolutely on the table. Yeah, I mean, I think it's probably operating with the assumption with the teams that are most interested, which is mostly the Patriots, that they're going to have to be the highest bidder. And yeah, I I I agree with your reading there. I think like the way that this is kind of stayed relatively calm from uh like from their standpoint, from a front-facing perspective, probably suggests that they are trying to get something done that everyone is happy with. Um, so for that reason, I I don't I I wouldn't think so. But who who would it make sense for? Yeah. You know, it's either it's either a contending team. It's a team with a young quarterback that probably isn't contending. It's either a contending team who we know about , who need has a wide receiver need, like the Patriots, or it's a team with a very young quarterback trying to give that person a security blanket. Yeah. Like but again, the Patriots the Raiders want to do it to have give Fernando Mendoza a guy to throw to on every phone like again I think at that point it's like the Patriots would just have to be the highest bidder in that in that instance. Um the only other complicating factor here is like usually the reason you wouldn't as a team looking at a player that might not want to be there, you would say, Well, we have to extend them. With AJ you don't. Like he's already on the contract. But I think your read on that is probably the right one. All right. Let's get to uh let's get to the interior offensive lineman as uh we think about this. And it it it is fun ny how much we've talked about Drew Kendall this offseason. Um but I think you do think about you know how much does he factor into the Eagles long-term feeling of need at this position. Yeah. As we said, Landon Dickerson, the way that his contract was restructured, the reports from this offseason, there's a real chance that he's playing his last season for the Eagles. Yeah. Both sides know that. I think I I would I would bet against it, maybe, but it's still it's on the table. Paler Steen is entering the final year of his rookie deal, so they need to have a they need to have a plan in place for a guard succession plan . Would you feel, and we'll get to what is different about the guard class, other positions, but would you feel like Bengo Yuane from Penn State, the clear cut top guard in this draft by by consensus, by Fran , um, the big fella from Penn State, three-year starter at left guard. He's awesome. Would you feel like at twenty-three he would make sense? And would you feel like the Eagles would even be interested in moving up for him? Yeah, moving up is ly gives me more pause. At 23, I I actually think he is . It depends on who else is there, obviously necessary caveat, but I do think he would be a really, really solid pick at 23. Youane or Kenyon Sadiq? I'm probably going Sadiq there. Iwane or Caden Proctor ? I'm probably going Yoane there. Interesting. Yeah. Because I think there's a real chance that Proctor might be a guard for the Eagles. Um, and if you're going to draft a guard, I feel really good about Yoane as a guard. Like, I think he's the exact type of player. I don't like from a positional value standpoint, drafting a guard in the first round is not a great use of resources. You can find impact players. At least you'll be able to tell me from the data you pulled up, but it feels like at least you can find impact players on day two of the draft pretty consistently. And guys with like real upside, like Landon Dickerson types, you know, whether it's injury history, whether it is, you know, they don't have the perfect arm length or the immeasurables for the position, whatever it might be, you can usually find those guys on day two. But for a team like the Eagles, it's kind of similar to like the the the like logic that Daniel Jeremiah always points to with like drafting a running back early, where it's like if you're a contending team with a win now mindset, adding a player, like you know, adding a running back in the first round, or in this case, adding a guard in the first round, I do think it makes sense if for a team like the Eagles for what they want to be in terms of you hate that? I hate that. Well hate that framing. For what you want to be as a not about you want it. I hate that framing. Oh drafting a route. Of like if you're a contending team you can afford to you can afford to pick luxury needs to be hate it. It informs that the Eagles don't I mean unless you're talking about if like Keldrick Falk were there, they would draft the fish my next one. Yeah, they should 100% draft Keldrick Falk over Venga Yoane if they're both there. Okay. But if you're talking about non -premium positions and you are looking at the Eagles roster, I would rather them add a potential difference maker that comes in day one and starts than add a project player at a premium position, a lot of peas there. Uh, in an effort to keep stockpiling at that spot. I think for what he would represent for the Eagles' interior offensive line, I think he'd make a ton of sense at 23. Trading up is trickier, but if Sadi q, Keldrick Falk uh Proctor. I mean Proctor. I would if Proctor if it were like trade up for uh Johanna or just draft Proctor, that's probably where you lose me. I think you probably just wait and see if Proctor's there. Okay. Or move up two spots to get Proctors. No, it sounds like he is not going to make it to twenty three. It sounds like he is going to go in the top twenty. Um I will tell you now about about the guards because it it is it is the most different pos I mean most it is different than every other position. How so? Um, and we can we can flip this up. So this is the the the sample I'm always working with the players over the past you know ten plus years who have gone to the Pro Bowl or uh you know, initial Pro Bowl or first team all pro, where do they come from? Where do they get drafted? And the guards are like the outlier. It is the latest median pick. The median pick for an elite guard is the very back end of round two, sixty point five. It is the highest percentage of guys who come from day two. So a lot of elite guards come from the second round and the third round. It is also the oldest average age. Mm-hmm. 8 years old so you care about it a little bit less with guards now there are still there are not there there's there's one 25 year old it's and there's only a few 24 year olds it's mostly that it's weighted towards 23 year olds. Um, and it's the lowest percentage of guys who come from power five conferences. I don't really I don't really have a theory for that. Why? It's why, like when we go through these guards, my opinions are gonna be are are much more tepid, um, and I'm leaning much more on Fran scouting reports and stuff like that. I want to see how these guys move. But that also what what is not in there is that the history of round one guard only players is not very good . Um, so I I you know I enjoyed watching Iwane. Everybody agrees he's the best guy. Yeah. Um, I would be pretty skittish at 23, even in even in a down draft . Now, he's only played left guard. He's never played right guard. I feel like if you're, you know, and he's not gonna, you know, they're not gonna move Lennon Dickerson over right now. I thought I saw he played some right guard. He played a little bit of right guard, like very little uh per the draft guide he spent he pay he played about a hundred snaps at right guard each of the la the last two seasons. Those are the first two I think that was a twenty three and twenty seven started a game at right guard. Yeah okay yeah um they did some cool stuff with him on offense where they're like flexing him out. He's an insane athlete. He's cool. Six four and a half, three twenty. Uh long arms, big hands, good character. I like the player. I just you can get this is the one spot where like you're if the if the draft is about and this is why I don't like the framing of like a get a guard or running back if you're a contending team. Howie knows this, man. The draft is about collecting talent for your franchise long term. That's the whole reason there it's not there. Then you move down . I guess like or you move up. You move up to get it. You could if you in the if you are trying to collect guys with elite upside in the first couple rounds, you can do it at guard still in rounds two and three, whereas you can't really do that at most other positions. So I agree with you. I have a take on one of the players we're about to discuss that really does contradict like the idea that you would move up for Venga Yoane. But if he's there at 23, I think that is just a value proposition. Because you say you move up, as Howie also knows, you cannot always just move up. It's not like you snap your fingers and you can move up five spots and get yourself a player at a premium position. And in this year's draft, like I mean, you might not be you might be moving up for like Kenyon Sadiq, not uh Keldrick Falk or you know, what name one of the like tackles that if you're yeah, like it's not it's not necessarily like that straightforward in this year's class. And maybe you have a trade back option where a team, you know, drafting, you know in, the in the late twenties is like, man, we really would love to get Venga Johanna and you'd be willing to make that trade. But if I'm the Eagles, I draft him and I feel like I've got a starter at right guard day one that can replace Tyrus. I know he hasn't done it a ton, but I feel fine about it. Um, and then you this is your Landon Dickerson replacement in two years' time . Yeah, it's a good player, man. Good player. I don't doubt that. I do have like I I I understand the song you're singing, and I will tell you why when we discuss probably the next guy. Okay . Um all right, let's take our break here. Yeah. Put Iwane to bed and on the other side let's talk about our favorite You're putting Yoane to bed. Day two guys. I feel like you're gonna make the case for somebody that you really like. I got two guys I really like. All right. Find out who they are on the other side. Any Philly fan worth their salt knowose . You never leave early. Whether it's a late December punt in the Meadowlands, a three-nothing Stanley Cup semi-final hole, or a Windy City wildcard showdown. But now, thanks to Bet 365, early pound offer leaving early has never been safer. Because if your team goes up by 10 points at any point in the game, Bet365 will pay off your bet right there on the spot. It's that simple. Bet 365, baby, it's where winning is everything. At 365, we're winning is everything. Download the app today and use code PHL Y365 at sign up. 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Learn more at Chase.com slash Sapphire Reserve. Cards issued by JP Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC, subject to credit approval . Spring showers bring epic off-road adventures. So bring on the mud and bring on the spring. At the Honda Spring Event. Honda Vehicles are built for exploring. With the rugged Honda pilot, ridgeline, CRV, and passport. The road might stop. But you're not done. All from the 2025 Kelly Blue Book Best Value Brand . Based on 2025 Consumer Choice Awards from Kelly Blue Book, visit KPP.com for more information. Hello. Welcome back to the PHOY Eagles podcast. Bo and EJ on a beautiful Monday talking interior offensive line. Okay, so you got Yiwani in round one. Yeah. The consensus number two guy. Yeah. Chase Bisantis from Texas AM is a year younger, true junior. Two years starting at left guard over the past two years. That that true freshman year, 12 starts at right tackle with one at right guard. A little bit more athletic than Yuane. Not quite as powerful. Uh he's gotten short arms. Big red flag on my board is that he originally committed to Texas AM to play for Steve Adazio? Uh hate that. Probably takes him off my board. However, that aside, the profile looks pretty good. Would you be intrigued by him in like a round one trade down? Round one trade down. Do you think we'll go that early? Possibility. Okay. I think he might be there for the Eagles at the end of the second. At the end of the second. Yeah, Fran has him as a second and third round grade. Okay. But he is, to me, the like prototypical archetype. Like, this is why you don't draft a guard in the first round okay is because you can find guys like chase basantis in the second round who yeah they might have a lower floor because of something you know with him it's like technique stuff it's the fact that his hands are outs on the outside a lot and he's prone to holding penalties. But I mean, this guy's upside is awesome. He is incredibly athletic. He's only 21 years old, as you mentioned, on Bruce Feldman. Bruce Feldman's freaks list. It's just like an elite mover. Uh, I sent this, I sent this to Lindsay just now because I this got me excited. You know, talking to football guys a lot. Like, you know, you hear um like you gotta check how these guys look in their stance. You know, like their ankle mobility is really big in their stance. When you look at this guy in his stance. Look at that. Look how low he is in that look how low he is in his stance. Like that gets me excited. Look at how high the right tackle is. Sorry, Lindsay . That poor right tackle. It looks like me. Oh man. Can't bend over. I texted Fran earlier about it. My daughter's bragging about if my five year old's bragging about like you know, touching her toes with straight legs. She's like, Daddy, can you do this? Like, no. Yeah, heck no. You nuts. It's a young man's game right there. But like the the way that he looks in his stance is the way that he plays. He's got great explosiveness. He's got great mobility. Uh his power is not like unbelievable. He doesn't have great pop in his hands, but it's it's solid. You know, I I think he is an all round solid prospect with a really, really high upside. And aga in, a reason why you look at a first round guard and you say, like, you yeah, I guess you're paying for the floor in round one. And I do think it with Vengo Yo Vango Yoane , I can get there. But Chase Pizantis was like my favorite player. I watched it. Interesting. Yeah. I liked him. Um if you're thinking about a a round two possibility, um I'm in I'm into that. Yeah. He had some like actually he had some reach blocks like where he was getting up to the second level and just like erasing angles on linebackers and I'm like, yeah Now Fran is going to join us in a little bit, but he pops in in the in the chat to say that that's Demetrius Crownover. Oh no. Oh man. Well, I mean, that's fine. Oh, I thought we circled the wrong one. And I was like No, no, the right tackle. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that is tough. Um , by the way, if Fran's gonna join us, you can join Fran later today for Die Hards, Die Hards only. You get a little QA . All the guys that we're talking about, Fran's done him. You want you have got you got questions for him? You can ask him at the event tonight. I was laughing at my thought that we had circled the wrong gu I'm sorry. Uh okay, Chase Pasantis. Now, do you wanna do you wanna tell me other guys you like or do you wanna just work work down the the ory? I'll tell you somebody I didn't like. Okay. Emanuel Pregnan. Okay, I think you know how I feel about Emmanuel Pregnant. Now by the way, Emmanuel. Congratulations. I mean what a what a gift of life. Uh so happy for you and the family. Um you look great. You're glowing . We knew it was coming. Uh I mean this was a layup for you. Manual Pregers. Three years at Wyoming. I mean four years at Wyoming. No, three years in Wyoming, two years at USC, then this last year at Oregon. He's gonna be 25 in October. Yes. Um That does that is a no for me. Yeah I know for me, dog. I know that so there's one of the elite guards. There's 32 of them. One of them was twenty-five entering the NFL. That was Kyle Long, who also was from Oregon, but you know, he was a minor league baseball player. There was at least a better reason there. Yeah. Um I mean You couple that with the pregnant spine. He's got now he does have he does have huge hands, 11 inch hands, and hands yeah actually matter quite a bit. Oh really? Um there's a guy that I like who's got really tiny hands. That's scary. And and at that size at six four, three fourteen, he had a thirty five inch vert, which is very good. He's a he he seems like a very good athlete. Uh I he might be a very good player. Um, he's just not for me. You couple the fact that he's an old with the fact that his biggest really selling point, he's not a great mover. It's that he's physical and he's nasty. And that is where I'm a little that's where I'm I've been, you know, uh like I spend so much time with you that I feel like I've adopted this stance. It's like you can't be the old guy on the offensive line and be like, oh man, he's just bowling people over. So yeah, I mean yeah. He he wasn't my type of interior offensive lineman, I would say. Yeah, he's not for me either. Um, but you know, he's France number three guard. So the tape might be better. Maybe that speaks more to the guard class than yeah, this guard class. I was a little bit underwhelmed gener generally speaking, yeah. Oh no, this guard class, I'll I'll s I'll be real about this. This guard k this guard class got really tough really fast. Like out of nowhere, I'm like, ooh, like what am I watching here? Like this guy is an NFL prospect. So yeah, it it's a lot by uh the actually the same guy, I believe. Uh friends guard 10. Or his interior offensive lineman 10. Uh he's uh he's yeah, 10. Yep. This is the this is the Duke tackle turned interior offensive lineman. Yeah, it was tough. It was really tough. Uh Brian Parker the second. Brian Parker the second. I thought you were just like trying not to like air this guy out. No, I had a different name in my head. Like best of luck to you know maybe we're wrong. You guys just getting run through. Yeah. It was tough. That's okay. Even like the good reps weren't good. Yeah. I quite like Keelan Rutledge from Georgia Tech. 23 years old as a rookie. Six three and a half, three sixteen, thirty-three and three-quarters inch arms, 10 inch hands, and a very good vertical jump, 32 and a half inches. Uh, which puts him like this tied for the second best of that guard group. Plays with that nasty demeanor you want to see from a guard. Uh he's like a bully. He likes he really kind of pushes it right to the edge of like where I'm like, all right, man. Like, you know, I'm a nice guy. And like I I do like the guys who like play through the whistle, play with nastiness, but he's like he knocks a guy over and he's like trying to lay on him. He's like trying to knee him in the face mask. I'm like, all right, just like calm down a little bit. A little little bit too aggressive for me here. Two years at Middle Tennessee State before going to Georgia Tech for two years, where he was an all-American both years. Um , I like him. If we're talking about end of round two, if he makes it to round three, I I think I'm interested there. My guess is he doesn't make it to round three. Um just because you know teams love that that play personality. Yeah. I was likely to go that high anyway. They I think they usually get overdrafted. Um , the thing that we haven't talked about yet is how much is the Eagles' philosophy, especially at this position, going to change in a new offensive scheme without Jeff Statlin? That is a very good question. Um, there are some prospects on this list that felt like slam dunks in a previous world where you have Jeff Statlin to develop those those players. And my guess is that they're still going to draft the same types of players. I think that we will have to see if the results, you know, are as consistent with those types of players. I think that's probably the best way to put it. Because I don't think they're going to change the way that they approach offensive line based off what we've heard from Hallie Rosem. I think they're so looking for unusual talent. And I I think it's actually the right philosophy. You know, when I watch these guys, like if you know, when I'm going through Dran France Draft Guide, which you guys should all become a diehard so you get access to it because it's tons of good information. When I see a lot of red in like the technique, I'm always like that's the stuff that you can teach these guys. You know, that's the stuff that you know you can't teach somebody to be, you know, a little spoiler, you can't teach somebody to be six five, three hundred and twelve pounds with long arms and you know, a lot of raw athleticism. But you can teach somebody to get their hands inside. So um to me I think it's the right approach to have, and I think it's one they will maintain for for at least the short term here. All right. You have one other guy you really like, right? Yeah. Tell me who he is. Jalen Farmer from Kentucky. Okay. I love this guy. I like Jalen Farmer. Six five, three twelve, thirty-four, uh, thirty-four inch arms. Um 34 and three quarters. Yeah. Long arms. Long arms. Good broad jump. Great forty time. Small. Hilariously small hands is what I have written. Nine and a half inch. Nine and a half inch. Nine and a quarter inch, I think it was. I think I think there's uh two different measurements. Okay. I gave him the nine and a half, which is a which is tied for the very bottom of that elite sample size. Tiny hands. The Burger King hands. Not not quite you know Zach Martin had small hands. Penn State O lineman from last year that had fashion. Yeah, weren't his like seven or something like ridiculous? I'll small. Because those were I thought Jalen Farmer was a was a very fluid mover. Oh my god. Yeah. And he's he's got both, right? It's it's uh eight and a half for Olu fashion. Um he has both really, really good movement, elite, like very fluid, like you said, but also really explosive. And the thing I loved about watching him when he gets latched onto somebody it's violent it is like chaotic like once he once he gets gets his hands on people at the second level you know it's it does it looks like dramatic when he hits people which I like he's got so he's got some pop got some power. Um, you know, he's he's one of the rare like in on day two, you're usually like picking power or explosiveness a lot of times, and with him I felt like he got both. Um so again, seems like there's probably some techniques still. And you know what? He's one he's a guy who you can read Fran's scouting report and Fran's gonna join us. You can tell Fran likes him. Oh, there's a lot of blue in here. Yeah. Yeah, there's like you know, um Fran 's rankings are one thing, and sometimes you can read a little bit more about like this is a guy he he he believes has real upside. But he hat but he has to ding him for some Yeah, well I was gonna say the red is all the stuff that I I mentioned earlier, like habitually laid off the ball in both phases. Like that is something you can teach somebody. He's explosive. He you know, he's his testing shows that he can be quicker. Um, you know, eyes can be a bit eyes can be a bit late to see blitzers and loopers. Like these are the things that to me, that's what you that's what the coaches are there for. You know, it's Shiel Capati would say, shout out to Shield. That's what the money's for for the coaching staff. This guy is like my my type of guy in that he has you know very, very good traits. And he's the stuff that he's not as proficient in is teachable stuff. Um one thing that is interesting about the Fran 's interior offensive line grants is it is it it is we haven't gone through every single one yet. So far, it's by far the one where he is sort of like consensus is close is narrowest. Uh there are there are some differences like with two versus four or whatever, but there are no huge outliers. Yeah. Um one guy who who I really liked reading about and watching from him is his top center who uh you know is like the consensus three center but conor lieu from yeah from auburn uh there's a guy who who you can tell how athletic he is yeah uh really moves well this is a three year starter uh true junior. So he's gonna be twenty-one as a rookie. He's coming off a torn ACL in October . Now I've been sort of sucked in by by uh young centers before . Uh the guy from Ohio State two years ago comes to mind . Yeah. Luke uh Whipler, I think I I think his name was. Um so I'm a I'm a little bit I'm a little bit scarred here. Yeah, you got to but I like I like Connor Lew a lot. Uh and to me, if you're thinking about okay, how is a guy available, you know, like he's coming off the tour and ACL in October. Is he around in round four? Does he have real upside? This is part of where like your your Drew Kendall belief comes into play a little bit. But I like this guy. Yeah, the the tricky thing with Connor Lou and any of these like center only prospects, like 'cause I really do think he probably is only a center, is like can you really stockpile those guys? Like you'd have to feel really good and we've talked about the show. I feel like he could move to guard. Mm I So Frank Fran didn't chance, yeah. Yeah, I feel like the way that he plays is predicated. I mean, maybe in like a an outside zone scheme where you're really just prioritizing having athletes on the interior, but I think you make if you make that pick, I mean listen, like I'm not ruling out. The Eagles could totally do something like this. And then it would be confidence that Cam Jurgens can be a guard in Sean Manion's system. Um that's the way that you could talk me into it because they already have Drew Kendall, and I know they're bullish on him and they've got Cam Jergens like can't keep drafting like the athletic center and trying to figure out how to fit all these guys on the interior. Yeah. Okay. Anyone else you want to talk about before we get to Fran and and and some more on him? Um talking about Fabecci. I liked Febche. February. Weewoo. I think it's now listen, you are correct. From Oklahoma. Fran did the work on these guys. So I will defer to him. Now you will. I will defer to him. Off camera. This. might be the type of thing This might be the type of thing where it's like um it's like Travis E. Chen, right? Where it's I'm gonna tell you guys it's wee woo because I don't want to hear you try to pronounce it the way it's actually pronounced. Or maybe maybe he he does pronounce it the way that maybe it's in more elogimo situation where it's just gonna change your map. Exactly. I think based off the way it is, it's like a it's a v it's a it's a sound that we don't make here and like, you know in in America with our with our language, but it is like you know, it's like win where it's like yes, you can say win, but you if you're really trying, you go win. Like you have a little win, right? Maybe this is a n wee woo type of situation, but he doesn't want us to be trying. He doesn't want Jabronies like me on the podcast going n wee woo. So I get it. Uh Feb i Weewoo from Oklahoma. I like how you didn't even try there. North Texas transfer. Uh has played a little bit of tackle, a little bit of center in the past as well. So there's some some theoretical versatility. Uh weirdly low vert, but uh I liked watching him move as well. Yeah. Uh I do aesthetically like a little bit more gut in my guards. He's he's almost too well built. Um too pretty. The flip side to that is I then watched Billy Shrout from Notre Dame. Yeah. Who's got some gut . And I did not like that guy. Yeah. You didn't like the given the two, give me wee will. I was fine with Billy Stroud. He was a very workman like interior offensive. Here's the thing. You read it Billy Stroud grew up one of like five kids on a cattle farm. I don't think you need to I don't think you need to watch the tape after that. I think you know I think you know exactly you hear that one piece of information and you know exactly what you're getting. Yeah. Yeah. I I completely agree. And then Brian Parker really just made me lose all will. Yeah. To watch the rest of the group. Uh and I did not I didn't uh there's a couple other guys I didn't love. But there's a couple uh late guys who I want to ask Fran about who he saw in person did not get a chance to fully do yet. Um, one of them in particular, I want to ask him about, find out who that is on the other side, when Fran Duffy, the great all-study NFL draft analyst, joins us live . Did you win? Who cares? You know why? 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App access open to all, 21 in order to play, and no pro no purchase necessary, US only, void This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve. The butler, the spa. This is the edit, a collection of hand-picked luxury hotels and a $500 edit credit. Chase Sapphire Reserve, now even more rewarding. Learn more at Chase.com slash Sapphire Reserve. Cards issued by JPMorgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC, subject to credit approval. Spring showers bring epic off-road adventures. So bring on the mud and bring on the spring at the Honda Spring Event. Honda Vehicles are built for exploring. With the rugged Honda pilot, Ridgeline, CRV, and passport. The road might stop. But you're not done. All from the 2025 Kelly Blue Book Best Value Brand twenty twenty five consumer choice awards from Kelly Blue book visit KPP.com for more informacion back on the PHY Eagles Podcast Bo and Fran, and you see the beautiful face there of Fran Duffy joining us. Fran, we're doing interior offensive linemen. You are Howie Roseman. You have a new offensive line scheme . I give you these four choices. Venga Yuane in round one . Chase Bisantis in round two . Keelan Rutledge in round three or Connor Liu in round four? Which one? Oh, you should have done Feb ruary . I didn't. Um the way I would look at it, I will say , um, just because of the nature of this class, I actually think all of those guys like bump them up a tier. Okay. Um I think Bisantis, end of round one, I think Yuanna out of Eagles reach. I think Rutledge. I had Rutledge in the mock draft last week. Yeah. Um so I think he could sneak in and then uh was it was it Lou in round four? That's that just because of the ACL, that's probably the maybe the most likely in that range. But to answer the to state of the question . Probably Rhut Legend three. I mean, just because I had him in the first round. Uh and you know, he's he's he's a guy I really just like enjoy the player. Uh he's really tough and physical. He's got guard flex that he's played left and right, uh, has worked on snapping. So some you know, theoretical center flex as well. Uh I like Keelan Rodledge a lot. Okay. Good place to start. Um Santos in round one, man. That's a little rich. I like him. I like him a lot, but round one, that's I I think this is a draft where you know, uh because the nature of the class and you guys now that you've been going through all these positions, you kinda see it, right? Is that uh because of the lack of like high end talent across the board, I think offensive line is typically seen as you know relatively plug and play, as relatively quote unquote safe. Uh, I think we'll see a lot of these offensive linemen go off the board. You know, I did the mock draft last week, and in that exercise, I was like, all right, I kind of wonder what if the run, you know, the run on offensive lineman happens a little bit later in the first round and I'm working on another mock draft now uh that I'm hoping to get down in the next couple days. Um and I think though let's go the inverse here and see like all right, what is the ripple effects of that? I do think, and I think it's the more likely scenario with the offensive linemen going early. So uh yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how that pans out for the Eagles. So let's play that out. Um offensive linemen go early. So in in that, so obviously the top two guys go in the top ten. Ywane goes top fifteen and and like Proctor and Freeling are both off the board before twenty three. Is that I think both those guys potentially off the board by seventeen. Really? Wow. Yeah. So like you're talking about like five linemen going off the board once again. Fi five offensive linemen in the on the in the top sixteen picks, seventeen picks. Okay. And so who does then that push down for the Eagles? So now you're talking Is there a chance that Caleb Downs goes to eighteen or something like that and the Eagles can move up to there to get him? I think Downs, I think so then if all right, so if you have five offensive linemen, let's go, let's play this out really quickly. Uh five offensive linemen quarterbacks, six. Yep, obviously one quarterback gets you to six, joining one running back gets you to seven. Uh let's say two receivers for sure. So let's say um between Tyson and Lemon and then obviously Tate. Okay. So that's nine. I actually think there would be three, but let's play that out. Okay. I think Sadiq in that group. Oh, okay. So he does not move down. Now we we should say he goes brought in Kenyan Sidi for a pre-draft thirty visit. The reports are which is interesting. And it remains a trade-off possibility. Okay, but that gets us to 10. That gets us to 10. Um stay with me. Sonny styles, Rvell Reese, David Bain. Sonny Styles, yep. So Bailey Bailey, Reese, Styles, uh, Bain. Yeah. Those are probably the definites. Yeah. That's four. That's it. Right. No Parker.. Right Falk, I wouldn't say definite, even though Eileen probably is . Yeah. Okay. So let's get to those four. Delane . Delane McCoy. Those two. Okay. So' thats sixteen. That's sixteen. Probably it. Okay. But that means so that means downs could potentially get to. Oh, I would put down sorry, sorry, sorry. Downs in the middle's in there. Okay. Yeah, I think that's you to 17. I I don't think Downs makes it past Dallas. I think if he makes it to 12, I think Downs will be a cowboy. Okay, so let's say let's say those 17 are off the board. Let's play it out. Okay. And let's say the other wide receiver goes. Okay, so that's that's that's eighteen. That's likely now you're at you're at twenty-th ree. Is there someone you would be willing to move up four spots for if those are the eighteen? And I think you're thinking of Keldrick Falk as a possibility . Uh another a different offensive lineman is a possibility, but I don't know, you know, would you just stick and you know hope for Ihanichor or something like that? Yeah. Is there a fourth wide receiver who you would be happy with? Um that's I mean, that's not a pretty picture. Yeah, it's to me, it's uh I think you're talking Concepcion , so you have uh Casey Concep cion, I think you're talking Ihan and short which honestly this actually is like making it makes uh it makes me feel good a little bit because we these are players that we have talked about a lot like going back to January for the Eagles. Like Concepcion was in my first mock draft to the Eagles in January. Ihanitur, we talked about as an Eagles fit, but for you know, ad nauseum during the senior bowl week. Um that's good, right? Yeah, I think you I think you probably try to hold your nerve and and sit for Keldric Falk. But yeah, I think so. I don't think you want to trade honestly, I don't think you're probably looking at a potential trade down scenario. Or you stick you stick, you hope that Ihanitore falls to you. Yeah. Not ideal. I mean a focus. I do think I hanator is a tackle only. Like, I don't think the Chargers will take the Chargers picking right ahead of you at 22. I don't think they're taking Ihanitore. So you'd worry, like, would New England move up? Would Houston move up? That would be you're battling against some of those other teams behind you. You know, if Cleveland takes a receiver early, do they move up to try and get Ihanitore ahead of you? Um so though those are the teams you'd be worried about. Yeah. I no TJ Parker, I think, becomes a possibility. As a stick and pick. Yeah. As a stick and pick . Uh now uh we all also talk about Avian Terrell . Yep. It's a bit spicy , given the resource allocation, but surprised me. Yeah. Dylan Theneman. What about Thenaman? Oh, and we had yeah, Thenaman and Neil. I I I know, I know. I'm with you there. I like the player. I do like him . Um , but yeah, that would that's a tough one to just a resource allocation standpoint. Yeah. Okay. That's probably the worst case scenario that they're playing out inside the Jefferson Health Company. But that doesn't feel like an unrealistic scenario at all. Oh no, not at all. But it's one that they will have to be prepared for. Yeah. But we've talked about I think uh did we talk about this? Or was it yeah, I forgot we the Eagles, I mean, w they don't trade up as often as as but in the first round is when we see them trade up you know more often than not. Oh yes you talked about this on a different show. Yeah, I think I believe so, yes, correct. Um I uh people should should should listen to that episode of the Philly Special. Thank you. Uh yeah, I think that yeah, shout out to Shield. Yeah, and C2S. Um I think that uh to me, uh that is a likely scenario. So then you're trying to trade up to you know, maybe Minnesota at 18, Carolina could be a willing partner at 19. Yeah, but then it becomes like okay, are you willing to are you willing to trade a third round pick? Might not even get it done. Maybe it doesn't. Uh, but would would you you trade trade two threes to get Caden Proctor? Like Okay, so a couple things. Uh the reason why I appointed Minnesota is that Minnesota does not have a GM right now. Yeah. So trade value, I think, might be might mean less to them. Also, I actually think this could be it and I would this a conversation I had with somebody earlier today. Uh, because of the nature of this class , trade value charts might be a little wonky. In that uh, you know, we know like the 11th pick, this year I've just throwing a number out there is not equivalent to the 11th pick in a typical year. And so you might see teams willing to take less to move down. Uh, you know, this has been talked about with the Arizona Cardinals at three, potentially trading with the Cowboys, without the Cowboys having to give up twenty, which seems ludicrous, but in the nature of this class, like that might be something that you might be willing to swallow, uh, just because you know, knowing like it's not a great group Okay . Um, all right, let's pivot back a little bit to uh the interior offensive lineman here. Uh, I will ask you the question that uh I have asked you for most of these guys. And I think it's a little bit different now that we are expecting some kind of change in the way that the offensive line works. There might it might not change what they're looking for in the draft at all. But if you are looking for uh like a day three guy who screams either stoutland how we like critical factors or maybe uh could be a menace in a wide zone type scheme who who looks like a potential Eagles draft pick . You mentioned Jalen Farmer. Farmer is a guy that definitely stands out for me. Um now did we read that correctly? That uh reading your scouting report, you like Jalen Farmer. Guilty. Yeah, I do. I do like I do like Jalen Farmer. Um I like Farmer and and similarly, I also like Jeremiah Wright for a lot of the same reasons. Uh and Jeremiah Wright, you know, this is a a converted defensive lineman, moved over to offense full time uh in Auburn, or uh at Auburn, I should say. Uh you know, so he's only been playing offensive line full time for three seasons. He's really stout. Uh I think athletically, it's more just like the short area, like you know, quick twitch stuff as opposed to like oh man, he's really good on the move. Um, you know, and so depending on what the Eagles view their run game looking like and things of that nature, that may or may not uh be a good fit there. I think he's more like big thing. twenty five as a Yep, yep, older guy. Um, but you explain that away by the fact that like, hey, I wanted to go back and play another year, you know, the Auburn they were they had high hopes coming into this year. Um, you know, so you I can kind of explain that away. Uh Fran I will let you think about this in a little bit of an interim because it's time to head to Fran . Good . I like Farmer too. For the reason he's a kid that you know he's got I know like the hands measured in small, but you see, like every time he makes contact with it, this is honestly where he stood out to me at Mobile at the senior bowl. Uh, because I hadn't done his film before the uh before the senior bowl. Every time he made contact with a defensive lineman, you saw like the helmet going on the on the defender. Like he's got very heavy hands. Um yeah, I I like Jalen Farmer. Uh one of my one of my comps actually for him is actually a former Eagle, um, Chance Warmack, uh, who disappointed as a top ten pick. But I think in terms of like playstyle, skill set, I mean Warmack started in the league for a good amount of years. Uh the Eagles got him at the very end. Um but I I could see Jalen Farmer being that kind of like, you know, low end starter, really good backup type of player. So do you think this is a kind of like if if Jalen Farmer makes it to round three. Is this a if if you if you were thinking about adding an offensive lineman to this group for the Eagles, would who's available in round three be better than a veteran that you could acquire in a trade . It would depend on the vet . I probably I think we just I just want I lean like I want young players, so like you know, I think uh give me give me the mystery box um personally. But I could see going the other way, especially if like if given truth serum, like Howie Roseman is like, uh like maybe we don't want to play with fire and throw too many young la offensive linemen without stout in the building. Like if you uh if that's like that's true he got wheels, you know, maybe um hey let's go with the veteran route with more of a proven track right. That's interesting. Um all right, I got a couple late guys to ask you about. Yes, Caden Barnett from Wyoming. Uh you saw him at the Shrine Game, I believe. I liked him. You liked him. And he worked he was at the Combine. I kinda like it, Caden Barnett. Yeah. He what he was not at the Combine. He was not at the Combine. Yeah, he was a snub. If memory serves. Uh I am pretty sure on that. Give me one second. Yeah, he was a combine snub. Um Roger, what are you doing? Yeah, we can get into that. That's a whole other thing, is the combine invite process. Um, but no, I I like Caden Barnett, you know, just seeing him up close. Uh and it's funny. You know, I I don't know by that point in the calendar, like who players are training with and stuff like that. I don't really have a good grip good grip on. Didn't find out until like the end of the we theek week, like as was coming to a close. He's actually he's working with Duke Mannyweather and like those guys down there. So he's he's he's in the right house uh in terms of uh where he's prepping 'cause, you know, Duke is the is the that who by the way, anyone that doesn't know like that's who you know lane johnson uh you know he's but honestly like duke is as good as it gets in terms of like any per personal position trainer um you know and barnett he's well put together he moves well he just he just looked like a potential starter down the line. N Iow, haven't done the film yet, but I did like what I saw in person from Gaiden Barnett. And then I got one other one for you, another late round guard. Only played right guard in college. Big guy , enormous hands, uh enough to intrigue me. I struggled with his tape. Um you know, I ended up giving him a yeah, I gave him a camp body grade. Um I think he was a right guard only if so yeah right guard only. Uh not a great athlete. Definitely a big body, struggled in pass protection. Uh I thought the some of the technique stuff in the run game wasn't great, but like even like I was like, is the the juice worth squeeze there from a physical tool standpoint? Um yeah, I I struggled a little bit with DJ Campbell. Okay. Fran, uh Jennings Dunker, I see some other uh analysts have him as a guard. You have him as as a tackle. Where do you think he fits uh and where would he fit in your interior offensive line uh rankings? Uh I think I have so basically the way that I split guys up is I go like tackle guard s and then guard uh guards interior offensive linemen. Okay. Right. So uh so yeah, so I actually do think that he's more of a guard than a tackle. Um I have him so I can actually tell you tackle guard seventeen, I believe. Yeah, so I'm just looking at my horizontal board. He would be my one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, five, four, seven, nine. This is great podcasting. Twelve . He would be my fourteen he would be IOL fourteen. Wow. I have a backup grade on him. Um you know and I do think I like the flexibility is a good thing. Uh I know some are really high on him. Yeah. Uh I know he's become a he's become like a darling because of like the you know for obvious uh obviously like the the red hair, the moment like the whole deal. Uh so I get it. Um but as a player I thought he was just okay. I wasn't I wasn't like completely moved by him. I like the other I like uh Logan Jones, the center from Iowa. I like more I think he's I think he was a fun watch. Yeah, I liked Logan Jones. Um but Dunker was just okay, I thought. Okay . Um, Brian Parker . Yeah. Brian Parker's tape is ugly. Yeah. But that's why I think he's a good I think he's an interior offensive lineman. But I think a lot of his issues, I think a lot of his issues are he does not have the foot quickness to play tackle. And so guys are going through him because he is like so overextended, like stressed, like trying to not because of not because of an anchor. Yeah. I think it's I think what moving to the inside, I think will mitigate some of his his issues. That said, I don't think he's like a high-end starter. I do think that he's more of like a swing backup. I think I like him a little bit more at uh at guard than center. Um you know, one of the things that cause people have have been saying this a lot about uh Spencer Fano, the the tackle from Utah, you know, potential top ten pickers, like, oh like he took snaps the combine, like look let's look at him at center. There is like so much more that goes into playing center than just like being able to snap the ball and the mental side of things. So So uh you know, just saying like, oh yeah, like Brian Parker, like slide him into center, yeah, that happens. Um, but it's not the it's not like a slam dunk transition. So I actually like him a little bit more as a guard personally. Who was the guy last year when to the Bucks? You liked a lot? Was it was it was also a college tack on was moving inside ? Uh well, the one from a few years ago who I actually compared Parker to was Robert Hainsey. Uh that was like four years ago. Last year with the Barton. First round first round pick. Uh Grant Barton. He was two years ago. Okay. Yeah, Grant Barton. And that's what a lot of people point because he was also from Duke. So a lot of people have pointed to that. Yeah. Uh have pointed, oh yeah like just like grant barton but ton was Barton was awesome um you know and honestly similar to like Gray Zable because people said the same thing about Gray Zable last year it was like oh yeah you could just do you know but again like tackle to center, center is there's so much from a mental standpoint that's required there. That uh that's that's a big swing to take, personally. Yeah, okay. Sounds like a an underwoman class, yeah . Yeah, I think overall it uh it definitely isn't it this group. Guards, it's yeah, it's not the best. I think center center is okay. Uh it would have been better if you know in terms of you mentioned like Connor Lou. Um, you know, if he didn't tear the ACL, he was a top thirty player for me coming into the f in coming into the fall. Um but yeah, the you know, because he was he was actually injured in the spring too, like didn't spring ball from something separate. So it's like, all right, like can this guy stay healthy at all? Um but yeah, the center center class is interesting. Probably a little bit more exciting than guard, but yeah, I'd say it's not as great. The tackle group is better overall. Okay . All right, Fran. Well, good luck with the QA tonight. Uh thank you.' Well hopefully see you uh on another one of these tomorrow. And then uh we got you in studio on Wednesday, so we're looking forward to that. What's the what's the plan tomorrow? Position wise. What do you guys think? I think we're still waiting, right? Yeah, we're we're we're T B D. You'll have to tune in to find out. Could be tackle . Could be wide receiver . Could be quarterback . I don't know about that. Yeah. I mean it's gonna be one of the three. Yeah. So get some irons in the fire.. Keep you on your toes Keep you on your toes, people out there. Thank you, Fran. Good to see you. Appreciate it, guys. Talk to you, Fran . Before we go, we got a super chat here from Fresh Prince. A nice, generous donation. Fresh Prince. Thank you. Very bow. Hello . Could you share your thoughts on the two Hertz articles that came out? I believe in Jalen. I also think he needs to listen to coaching and be more flexible. The coaches and ever yone else seem to be doing everything right. What was the other article? Uh Jeff McLean's article after uh the ESPN article, which said that the Eagles are not planning to extend Jalen Hurts this off season. Okay. Um let's see here. My thoughts. I think you have done a good job of talking about this, EJ, where I think you could ask fifty people in the building. Yeah. And you would get 20 people who are of the opinion that Jalen is really holding back the team. 20 people who would go to war and say that this guy is as is the perfect person you want in the building. And 10 guys who are sort of in the in between. And they'll, you know, they'll t they'll take they're fine. They're not upset about it, but they think he could do some things better. Um it's a complicated question. I think what is interesting to me about the articles is that this sentiment does exist in the building and the and the organization itself does not go out of its way to counter that framing of the conversation. Yeah. Um and I don't think that that would be the case in a lot of build ings. And I think that probably does speak to there being some level of tension between Jalen and the people who are in charge. Um now that uh that could be the coaching staff, that could be the front office, that could be the very top. Um it could also just be part of the negotiating, right? Uh over what an another another extension could look like. But I think what is nice about it is that the way that this offense is set up this year, we are gonna get we're gonna get some answers. Yeah. Uh it this is a is theoretically going to be a different kind of offense. Um I do think that some of the things that were framed as negatives by some people in those story, and I thought Tim did a very good job of writing it this way, that like this was the perception doesn't mean that it's the reality. Yes. The idea of Jalen uh changing a play, or one thing that really stood out to me, it was a complaint that like uh they would install something new, it wouldn't go well, and then Jin wouldn't do it anymore. Yeah. And to me, that resonates, and not in a not in a uh the results need to bear it out. I'm gonna be quick to flip it. But if you can't explain the why, yes , and you are the next guy in the rotating cast of characters of people who are running my offense, then I have to I have to lean on the things that I know best and know that I can do. Um if you can if you can explain that uh going under center more and throwing the ball over the middle of the field and show it to me is gonna really help the offense. That's part of the job. And then it then it is incumbent upon Jalen to accept all of those things. And we weren't in the rooms for those conversations. I don't know how those conversations went. Yeah. Um, but I think it's very relatable. Anyone out there, if your boss is telling you to do something that you don't agree with , you probably want to be explained why this is going to be