Closing Thoughts and Future Shows

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We're gonna hear from the great Daniel Gallen who covers Penn State to talk about their pair of running backs and the other Penn State prospects who are available in this draft, including a few who may interest the Eagles and one who EJ has fallen deeply in love with? From Fran Duffy, the great Eagles, and also the NFL draft expert. EJ, how are you? I am doing well. I'm a little bit um scatterbrained at the moment because it's something about like the it's it has to be at the very start of the show that somebody's in the driveway and everybody's dog in the neighborhood is going wild and I looked at my dogs and they were so peaceful and I was like I'm just gonna leave them be i'm not gonna put them you know in their crates i'm i just want them to relax and now there's pandemonium happening in the house but i am doing great excited to talk about running backs excited to be joined by uh daniel gallon who i i like to call it my eagles baby friend. We were Eagles babies at the same time. Yeah. Rookies on the beat. So yeah, it's gonna be a fun show. Dirty Dan. I'm sorry I missed it. I would I would have liked to have been there for it. Dirty Dan. I don't think people call him Dirty Dan . They do now. I hope they don't. So looking forward to that. But let's get into it here. The state of the running back position for the Eagles is such that this is not a pressing need by any state, uh by any stretch of the imagination. You got Saquon Barkley, you got Tank Bigsby, who showed a lot of juice last year, and you would expect probably should garner more carries this season. And then you've got Will Shipley in the final year of his deal doing whatever it is that he does. But all three of those guys are sort of on contract years. You know, Bixby and Shipley will both be at the end of their rookie contracts. And Saquon, this is the last year of the big guarantees on his deal. And so it is not crazy to think that especially on day three, the Eagles might take a swing on somebody who they think has uh a potential role, whether in this year's offense or or in the future. Yeah, you know, it's funny because we've talked a lot this week about Howie Roseman and how he often is looking for starters. He has talked about this before. On day three of the draft, you were looking for starters, players who can have the upside to step into bigger roles. I feel like running back can be a little bit of an exception for them because I think they are happy to find someone who can be a contributor like a Will Shipley, uh, you know, like a Kenny Gainwell. You know, those day three guys that fill out the room but aren't necessarily like number one running backs on your on your depth chart. So for that reason, uh we'll talk about some of the guys that might fit that, but I also have some some home run swings that might be available on day three, and one that I am very excited about. So uh yeah, but it I do agree that it feels like this is a position where Howie is okay getting like a role player . Uh potentially. Are we wrong about Shipley? Is this is he only but played in two years and he's got two years left of his rookie deal? I can pull it up. Um no, to be fair, I don't think that he is even guaranteed of making the team at this point. But yeah, I'm um why I was thinking the same thing as you here. Let's see. He's got two years left on his deal. Let's still he's got two years left on his deal. Yeah, thank you for the correction in the chat. Uh we apologize. We will do better, we promise we'll do better. I mean we gotta get it right. Yeah. Gotta get it right. Uh but I don't think that he I don't Eagles are uh you know changing any plans based on uh Will Show's availability. Anyway, I uh uh you're as to your question. Yeah, I I think so . But but I also think, you know, um when they think about the offense, a guy who can stay on the field on third down is is a starter to some degree to them. Yeah. Yeah. Um I love watching running backs. Same. Probably my favorite position to watch. Thought I did. In what's that? I thought I loved running. Watch. I loved watching running backs. And and Fran warned us. We asked him at the end of yesterday's show, what are we going to think of this running back class? You know. But yikes. I I cannot remember being this underwhelmed with a class. Probably the worst class as a group that I can remember. Now you we sort of put Jeremiah Love to the side of that because yeah, there's obviously no chance that he's gonna go to the Eagles and uh you know he's he's awesome . There are two guys who I like who like I'm I'm pretty excited about. I think I think I think I like a lot. And neither of them is like I'm ready to draft them and get me hand the keys over. That's like this this guy could be a good backup. And there's like three or four guys who I'd be willing to take a shot on in like rounds five and beyond with some upside. Everybody else, like yeah, no thanks. I'm good. Yeah, there's a lot of like meh, there's a lot of mid, as the kids would say, you know, we're not gonna hype mid on this show. Um to me, a lot of the guys I watched, it's like, yeah, they got like a couple of things that I really like about them, but overall, the whole package that you're looking at, it's just like, yeah, I guess, you know. So you have told us, you know, uh the moving goalposts of the things that you like in a prospect. Where does this stand for running backs? Um it's it's it's pretty similar to tight ends where like I like a a little guy that's feisty and you know it's physical but really realistically there's one guy in this class that is like oh man like gets me excited because it is all traits it's not he's he's more of an athlete than a running back. But, you know, those are my I also like those guys. 'Cause you know, you can't teach athleticism. You can't teach speed, you know. The thing that I care about the most when I'm watching a running back is the ability to make a guy miss. If okay. If if you can't if you if it's you one on one with somebody from this from the second level in space and you can't easily make them miss, I'm good. Yeah, there is like a a certain level of like flair that you need to have, a creativity to be able to get around guys and uh manipulate space. And yeah, I agree. There has to be it's like kind of similar to other positions like or other sports, like basketball or soccer where you are just trying to get by somebody in a one-on-one situation. Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. I was wondering what like uh data metrics like you were really honing in on for these guys. Well, that's a good question. I'm glad you asked because this is also one of my favorite stats in the pre-draft process is I love to look at running backs and the difference in their yards per carry against their teammates because I I do feel like this is the one position where you can sort of compare apples to apples? Um and so the running backs playing behind the same offensive line and the same offensive system, like how do they do versus you over the course of your career. And there are a bunch of guys in this class. Now, you know, when you've got two guys coming out from the same program, obviously one of them's gonna be below the other. Jadarian Price is going to have fewer yards per carry than his teammates because he had to play next to Jeremiah Love. You know, this is this has happened in the past with with other loaded backfields. But guys like um on other teams who are not like that like really differentiatingly better than their other counterparts, that's a red flag for me. And it and it plays out. I mean, the only guys over the course of the sample here, I've got 40 who had worse or like zero difference in their yards per carry than their teammates. Uh James Connor, Arian Foster , Ezekiel Elliott, surprisingly, and Josh Jacobs. Uh not Josh Jacobs is playing in Alabama. So everybody else you want you want them to be significantly relatively different. Um and the you know Jeremiah love significantly different in this class. There are a couple guys who are definitely different and I don't we'll get to one who's my favorite in the class but no, that's that's that is that is my my go-to here. Hmm. Okay. Um I also got you want to hear about the ages for this sample. Yeah, I would like to hear that. Yeah, I'm sorry, I'm trying to figure out who your favorite is now. 40 running backs in the sample again. Only two of them entered the NFL as 24-year-old rookies. One of them was David Johnson. And that's you can sort of explain away because he was playing in a smaller school pre pre NIL transfer. And then there was Philip Lindsey who went undrafted. Um, and so running back is a position usually where if you're good enough, you're gonna get to the league. And it's also surprising, uh, I I think you we think of like you can find running backs wherever , but thirty-four of the forty were drafted in the first three rounds. Okay, a lot of awesome running backs drafted on day three. Yeah, I feel like you can get good role-playing running backs and you can find like middle-of-the-road starter quality on day three. But I mean, if you're talking like dudes, you know, like top 10 bu ild your offense, you know, not around them, but with them as a big part of it. You probably are drafting those guys early. And I you do you wonder if that's a little bit um like a self fulfilling prophecy. Like you draft a guy early and you're going to feature him. I think that's part of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And yeah, then it's production based, and so they're going to get carries. I think that's I think that's part of it. Um , let's let's let's get to the players here. Um Jeremiah Love, anything you want to say about him? I mean he's awesome. Like he's incredible. Um my favorite thing. I I I liked it so much I screen recorded it and said it to friend because I enjoyed it so much. There's this clip. I want to say it might have been against like Indiana. Uh I don't know what's what the school is off the top of my head now, but uh there's a clip where he he gets through the hole and he's he's accelerating into space and there's a corner that takes the worst angle you can possibly take against a running back. Like his angle, I I I honestly wondered if it was like a business decision. Like I don't want to need part of this guy. I'm just gonna take a bad angle and get boxed out. But it's funny because Jeremiah like he like he gets in the hole and he sees the corner, he puts his hand up, he's ready to like brace for contact, and then he realized, like, oh, this guy, yeah, he got no chance, and he just takes off. So, yes, very fun player to watch. I saved him for last because I knew that the rest of the class was tough, so I watched all of these guys and I just like when I finally turned on Jeremiah Love's tape, I was like, oh my God, but this I earned this. I really earned the enjoyment of watching this guy just be a superhero out there. So uh yeah, really fun player to watch. I think you know, yeah, if you're an Eagles fan, do you want the Giants to take him because you know with the positional value and what it means for the franchise? But I mean, he's he's awesome, yeah Ye.ah,' its not gonna be fun . Uh, you know, the Eagles will be fine against a player like him. Uh, but it still is a very good player that you probably feel no, you probably just still want the Giants to take him, I guess. Yeah, I'm not gonna talk myself that far down. Six foot two twelve, as Fran said yesterday, one of his favorite favorite prospects to evaluate in a while, because he he does everything. Um, checks every box at that size, run a four, three, six. He's got production, he's playing on special teams, he's a great blocker, all of that stuff. Uh, you know, the the evaluation seems easy. The only question is the value. And still, I would not be using a top ten pick on a running back, but that's just me. Yeah. I mean, he is like if you're a team that yeah, you're right. A top 10 pick, if you're in a position to have a top 10 pick unless you trade it up, um, it's hard to justify. If you told me that a contender moved up,. L likeike I mean, his range is the Chiefs were at nine. I was gonna say I feel like his range ends before Kansas City. Um, if you told me the Chiefs drafted him, I wouldn't I'd feel like that's that's a huge win for them offensively. So depends on where he lands, if he's going to be an impact player in like high leverage games and big moments, but he certainly has the talent to be that. All right. Franz running back two, the consensus running back too is Jadarian Price, Jeremiah Lebs teamm ate from Notre Dame, 5, 10 and a half, 203 . Um, you know, not a super high track record of production. Only 15 career catches, which you understand why. It's because he's playing next to to Jeremiah Love, but that's a bit of a red flag. Uh that would be the fewest receptions for any running back in this sample. Uh Derrick Henry is the is the low man with seventeen. Uh that's that's not ideal. Now he only played three years. He also had a really slow 10-yard split on his four four nine. That's weird forty-yard dash, one six one, which is only faster than uh Kyron Williams and Melvin Gordon in in the sample. Not ideal. When you watch him, it didn't seem like he had it seemed like a decent burst when I when you watch him, so that was surprising to me . I was I'm just kind of uh Janarian Price. How about you? Um if he's a round one or round two guy, I would have expected him to have the flashes of a top five, top ten running back in the league, and I didn't see that with him. Um he seems like a nice player, like he's probably gonna be solid in the league, but yeah, I didn't see the upside that I would have expected to see for a guy that's going that early. Two guys I wrote down watching him run were DeMarco Murray and Josh Adams, uh, both guys who are kind of like high-waisted and they're just sort of running a straight line. You know, there's not a lot of side to side to wiggle with him. Yeah, yeah, like he he had good vision, but yeah, there wasn't make you miss. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's just sort of everything is like very on an angle. Yes. Um there's not a lot of fluidity to to the athletic movements . Not my kind of not my kind of player. And certainly if we're talking about a a second round pick, no no thanks. Yep. I agree with you. I I just think the reason that he like the reason he's a second round pick projection is probably because he's like solid in most areas. And I for me, like if you're gonna draft a running back in that range, you're not drafting him for the floor. You know? And I think that is his big main selling point. Is that like at the worst, he's gonna be a really, really good complimentary back in a in a committee. And it's like, I'm not drafting that guy in the second round, I'm probably not drafting that guy on day two. So uh, yeah, not my not my kind of player either. All right. Let's take our break here. I want you to think about. Let's let's tease this. I want we're gonna come out of the break with our favorite guys in this class. I have two that I really like. I want to hear who yours are. Uh, then we'll talk about Katron Allen and Nick Singleton and find out what Daniel Gallen thinks about those guys. Talk about the players who who Fran is a little higher on and lower on than consensus. Keep it running on the running backs here on the PHLY Eagles podcast. Stay with us . If you love the NFL Draft, then this is your edge. The diehard NFL Draft Guide is built and based off of thousands of hours of film study being boots on the ground, shrine bowl, senior bowl, combine, talking to scouts, talking to coaches, really getting a feel for where these players are best gonna fit and project in the NFL. We're talking hundreds of players in this class. There is no comparison. This is the best draft guide for Eagles fans. You get player comps, you get all the data, and you get Franz insight. And here's the bottom line. There is nobody in the entire world who is better suited to be an NFL draft expert and an Eagles expert than my good friend friend Duff. Alright so what are you gonna find in the guide? Well you're gonna find player cops. You're gonna find strengths, weaknesses, physical tools, analytics, highlights, analysis from all across the space, everything you need to try and determine who are the best players for your team. You get access to the guide if you're a diehard, and you'll also get access to a couple of individual breakouts I'm doing specifically for your team. Alright, look if you want surface level breakdowns, you can get them anywhere. But if you want independent thought, if you want thorough breakdowns on all of these prospects, become a diehard, get the guide. Or you can get access to the 2026 guide for just twenty six dollars. Let's win draft season. Starting something new can be terrifying. Before I joined the show, I remember thinking, what if nobody listens? What if my co-host has this weird vendetta against old draft prospects . But sometimes you've just got to take the leap. And it definitely helps when you've got the right tools behind you like Shopify. Shopify is a commerce platform behind millions of businesses worldwide at about 10% of all e-commerce in the United States. 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Elite jumper, elite three-cone, 6.91 in the three-cone. We could tell this guy to put on a couple more pounds and rush the passer, too. Because honestly, maybe running back isn't his best position. I didn't see a lot from him on tape that's like, man, this guy is really a technician. He understands the position very well. He is all all traits, 100% traits. You give this guy some time to, you know, refine his game with Jamal Singleton, and you might have a pathway, as friend likes to call it, a pathway toward a number one running back. He is a high variance player, high ceiling, very low floor as a player who probably does not really profile as a good complimentary back or good special teamer, but I don't care about any of that. Sign me up for the ceiling with this guy. You can only find so many freak athletes. You gotta add him when you can. Man , I do not like him at all. Yeah, because you're you're caught up in all the all the details. I I saw the guy. Now he's Fran's running back nine in this class. Fran is lower on him than consensus. This is a player who, because of those metric , because of the size and the testing speed, is likely to be, you know, uh either the somewhere between the third and fifth running back drafted in this class. He's also got really long arms, 33 and and three quarter inch arms, which is uh the the longest in the sample . I mean, you're talking about like betting on continued improvement from a guy who's a fift h year senior with three years of Buffalo, then New Mexico State, then Arkansas. He's not an old though. He's 22. He's gonna be yeah, he's gonna be 23 year old, 23 year old rookie. Um he's big. He doesn't run like it. He runs like a little guy, even though he's big. He's not, you know, he's not embracing contact. I don't see any like side to side Mickey Miss Wiggle. And I don't I didn't see him playing to that timed speed at all. Like I don't even see him running away from guy. At 4-3-3 that size, he's like he's getting to he's getting to the corner and then just getting like five yards before he's caught. Like he gets caught from behind a lot for a guy who has that speed . I was I was really down on the player relative to expectations given given the size and stuff. I think you're being a little bit hard on him in the sense that he is definitely like a flashes player. I think you see glimpses of it. Uh, you know, I thought you could see the explosiveness at times. I don't think it's a consistent thing. I I think I mean you see the way he tested and it's like this guy should have been the best running back in the in in college football. So I see where you're coming from, but I don't know. Give me the tools, especially again, like it's easier to find role players. It's easier to find guys who are who have a high floor, but there's a reason he will be available on day day two. I mean I I'd expect it to be day three. There's a reason he'd be available on day three. And if you have the opportunity to add somebody with that level of athleticism on day three, I think sometimes you don't want to overthink it. You know, again by the upside with with a player like him. I will say one thing, one positive. I I thought that he was he looked like a pretty natural receiver when he was throwing the ball. Um so that's one little one little bit of upside. Um what position if he had a time machine, what does he go back and what position does he play if he had a time machine if you could go back to like well is his goal to make a lot of money or to just be the best player in football because he could go back to you know 1955 and then a running back to me right so to me it's like especially got long arms he's only six foot so I guess it's like I don't know it's not like he could play off the edge probably a wide receiver if he's you know I I maybe maybe that I don't know yeah I was I was not in on Mike Washington Jr. Ah, I can't I'm actually surprised with that. I mean he's a fun he's a fun like he's a fun prospect in the in the variants and I'm I'm buying I'm buying the variants. If I'm right about him that I'm gonna look like a genius, and if I'm wrong about him, nobody will remember. They'll we'll just delete the tape. Uh I'll tell you my guy. My top guy in this class. Sure, you can guess. I'm going to guess you liked K-tron Allen. Uh that's not the answer. Okay. Uh my guy is he he's small is h. When you watch him on tape, he looks small-ish, five ten and a half, two oh five, but yeah, I'm looking for that wiggle. He's got the wiggle. He's also got burst. He's willing to, at that size, embrace contact and drop his shoulder. He runs with urgency, but also like sees the field really well as far as I'm concerned. Um, big hands for his size reminds me a little bit of of Kyron Williams, and you look at the uh the difference in yards per carry of him versus his his teammates. He's the best running back in the top 15 guys in this category. He had a five point four yards per carry. His teammates had a four point four yards per carry. He also had 92 catches over the course of his career . Uh the only little flag for him is that he did he ran every event at the combine, and so his his three cone is below the threshold, but I don't think anybody's worried about that. Should's trying to show off and do everything. Emmett Johnson from Nebraska. I really like Emmett Johnson from Nebraska. And if the Eagles used a fourth round pick, fifth round pick on him, I would be pretty happy . Great running back name. Um the thing I wrote down about him is like the shifty back with really good and frequent lateral cuts. It felt like he had that kind of um it almost almost like a shooting guard in basketball, like a lot of you know, like you've been saying, like a lot of wiggle. Yeah, I kind of feel like the whole time he's moving forward, he's kind of going like this, you know. So um, yeah, I I I understand why you liked him. He just didn't because I'm I'm sort of LaShawn McCoy pilled. Uh yeah, I was gonna say he does have some of that like Lashawn McCoy, like he's just always doing the head fakes and you know he he's he runs like an elusive back. The reason I was a little bit lower on him than you is cause I just didn't see like a top half of the league starter when I watched him. Neither do I yeah I don't think he's like a oh man like I didn't see that clear path to being uh a difference maker. I but I you know he was a fun back he's a good back and relative to the other guys we watched, I do see where you uh where you ended up being higher on him than than the rest of the group. He was the first guy who like it made me smile watching him watching him his running style. Um yeah, this is a this is a backup running back who you you can hope gets you six or seven carries a game. Um and I think there's also I think there is I think there's big play upside with Emmett Johnson. Uh I didn't tell you his his time speed. He ran a four-four-nine uh and pretty good jumps as well. So Emman Johnson's my guy. And then there's one other guy who who I quite like who uh I would I would I would want to draft if I could. There are some other players who we can talk about on day three who, I would be I would be happy to draft if they were there. The other guy who I who I like is Franz run ning back five. And that's Jonah Coleman from Washington by way of Arizona. Uh five, eight and a half, two twenty. So he's short and a little bit beefy. Um and I this is not a this is not a a a uh quality , but it's more of a a style. The way he runs reminds me of Darren Sproles in the way that like his arms are really, really going w when he's run ning. And I I see a player who gets to his top speed quickly, but there is not like the the top speed itself. There's no second gear to it, but he gets to it quickly. Uh he is willing to to lower his head and uh get extra yards. He's more powerful than you would expect given his size. He didn't test timing-wise, which I would imagine means that he doesn't have a great 40, but I think he I think he had some juice in the open field. Uh I liked him as a receiver as well. I am I I am in on a Coleman and there's a great note from the diehard draft guy that Fran has that a massive seventy five percent of his yardage came after contact in twenty twenty four. Only eight running backs drafted in the last decade accumulated a higher rate in their final seasons on campus, and none of them forced missed tackles at a higher rate than Coleman. So that was before. uh like a Boston Scott with more juice and I I know like we're just going through short eagles running backs. I'm not saying that they're that comparable, but he does have that similar like short but very compact build. He's more of a powerful runner than you'd expect just based off of his height al one. Um good burst again. Like a lot of these guys, like it felt like their short area quickness was good, but they're like, you know, it it's not like they're like freakish. You know, there's not like that explosiveness that you really want to see uh from like a a high upside back or even like the top speed especially for him. So um yeah fun player. The yards after catch or the yards after contact uh nugget there is a is a good one. Um and it's encouraging for like the type of player that he has to be uh at the next level. Yeah. If you told me he was if the the Eagles drafted him uh expecting him to be like a Boston Scott role, like you know, somebody who is uh a situational rotational player, yeah, I I I'd I'd I'd I'd see the uh the appeal for him there. Yeah, I think I think he probably has a better chance to turn into a number one running back than Emmett Coleman. Em Emmett Johnson does. Yeah, I agree with that. Uh but I like Emmett Johnson better. Um I like I like Jonah Coleman. Do you feel like Emmett Johnson was a little bit of like a like a ladder like a jump cut merchant? Just like a little bit like it was he did so many of them. Yeah . You know, you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take. Okay. I thought there was enough of him putting his foot in the ground and going going right downhill. Yeah. Just yeah. I mean I that you have a type based off because when you were reading out the stuff about your Emmett Johnson, I was wondering if you were going to say Jonah Coleman or Emmett Johnson. So I get it. Now before we get to Daniel Gallon on the Penn State players, what did you think of K-tron Allen and nick singleton katron allen is fran's running back four uh nick singleton is his five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve running back twelve uh neither guy tested, which was interesting . And there's a fun I know you're gonna I think believe you asked Daniel about this, but there's a an interesting thing for the Penn State fans who will know that like it sort of went back and forth each year, which guy was clearly better and more productive than the other. Yeah. Um, who did you like more? I'll be honest with you. I sort of came away liking Nick Singleton a little bit more. And I know that's that's opposite of what Daniel thought and what Fran thought. So I am actually h,appy to defer to them because they've watched more of these guys than me. I like Nicholas Singleton as like a north-south, you know, just power contact balance type runner. Um, the production and you know the use case is kind of against that. I think that, you know, and and again, Fran is higher on K Tron Allen, but if you just like were asking me which one, would I rather like draft one a couple rounds later and put them in my rotation, I think that's probably would lean toward Nick Singleton. That I think that's how I feel too, is I'm I'm happy to agree with them that K Tron Allen's a better prospect. Yeah. But I would not use the pick it would take to get him re versus the pick that it would take to get Singleton, I feel. Yeah. Yeah. I I just I think I think yeah, that's a good way to phrase it. The gap between them is not such that I would be like, oh man, I'd I would prioritize getting K Tron Allen over Nicholas Singleton. Yeah, I didn't think uh Ktrron again, it doesn't have my side to side wiggle. Um he's not the sharpest cuts. It's yeah. Um he looked he looked fine to me. He'd be he would be a a perfectly reasonable member of a of a committe e. Um but yeah, nothing nothing super special as far as I was concerned. Yeah. I mean he had good top end speed for his size. Like he didn't get caught uh as much as you'd expect at that size, which I liked. But yeah, again, this we have to qualify. This running back class, you are clinging on to anything you can find with these guys. Yeah. All right. Let's take our next break. Uh on the other side, Daniel Gallan joins us to talk about these guys. Venga Joanne Deny Dennis Sutton and all the rest of the Penn State prospects. And then after that, Fran will join us to continue talking about these wide the these running backs, including his running back three, who went to a very Have you guys heard of Gold Belly? We've been talking about Gold Belly for a while. It's this amazing site where you can get the most iconic, famous foods from restaurants all across the United States. And it's perfect for game day, Mother's Day, whatever else you got going on. So Goldbelly will ship you the, for instance, original Buffalo wings from Anchor Bar in Buffalo , or Guy Fieti's unbelievable trash can nachos, or even the legendary Franklin's Barbecue straight from Texas to your door. I love this for Philadelphia expats, all kinds of great classic Philadelphia restaurants available for you to get shipped to your home for that little taste of home. 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Chevrolet, together, let's drive need to restock inventory, cover seasonal dips, or manage payroll? Ondeck's Small Business Line of Credit provides immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, exactly when your business needs it, with flexible draws, transparent pricing, and full control over repayment , you can tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. Apply today at ondeck.com and funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. And we are back on the PHOI Eagles podcast and joined by an old friend of mine, Daniel Gallen from Lions 247. He covers Penn State. Does a great job. I always tell people, I think I've said it on the show before, like I consider us like Eagles babies at the same time. Like we started covering the team uh the same year, what was it, 2019? So uh yeah, we go we go way back. Yeah. So uh appreciate you joining us. Yeah., thanks for having me We we always sat in the second row of the auditorium. Yeah, because we weren't gonna lob any any questions down at Doug th those couple of years. Yeah, yeah. It is uh it's an an intimidating thing, your first year of question face-offs, and we were like uh I felt always felt very seen uh that we we kind of went through that experience together. But like I said, you do a great job covering Penn State now, and um obviously there's a lot of players in this year's draft class that uh you know hail from Penn State and a lot of guys that we have talked a lot about on the show as potential fits for the Eagles. So I think we should probably start. We're doing running backs today, but I think we should probably start with Venga Yowani uh because I I feel like he is a player that um makes a lot of sense for the Eagles in round one, depending on what they're looking for. So what what could you tell me uh maybe people wouldn't know about him uh as an interior offensive line prospect? I mean Venga Johanna passes all of the eye tests that you can imagine. Um, you know, he is massive, he can move, um, he can maul you, he can put you into the ground, you know, he finishes the blocks. I know there is a cut-up going around social media uh a couple weeks ago of just the way that that he blocked, the way that he finished plays. Um, you know, it's you know he is a very, very excellent interior offensive lineman. Um, you know, the one thing about him is that he just moves so well at his size. James Franklin did this a couple times over the summer when you know they'd host prospect camps up at Penn State. And you know, so there'd be all these parents watching their kids, you know, go through testing, you know, doing drills, all this stuff. And you know, Yoane would be there, you know, because a lot of players would be there to help out. And Franklin would always bring Yoane over to the parents and you know he'd he'd say, you know, meet Vanga, how much do you think he weighs? And at this point, Yoane was listed around 348 on the Penn State roster and just rock solid, like built like a rectangle. And you know, Franklin would do the reveal, and you know, all the parents would be whoa, like that's crazy. And you know, basically Franklin would be like, This is what our strength program does. And this is the type of player that we have. So you know, you wanna also good leader, um, you know, good background, you know, with his family. Um, and I think that he is someone that you know it's been fun to watch him creep up draft boards and I I think we'll be an impact player wherever he lands. Yeah, yeah. So the Eagles had him in for a top 30 visit reportedly. And um I d I am curious like you you kind of alluded to it there, the personality uh that he has it seems like he would be probably a big hit in that building, you know, as they get to know him as a person. Definitely like a he's he's got the gentle giant thing uh going on a little bit where you know you see him, you know, plant someone into the turf and you know, maybe give him the business a little bit. But then, you know, my colleague Mark Brennan at Lions 24-7, he captured this viral video after the Ohio State game uh in November, you know, crushing loss, you know, nothing's going right. There's an equipment manager, you know, struggling to push the equipment cart uh up a ramp. And Vanga, you know, wearing knee braces in just one fail swoop, like just jumps this three foot wall uh you know with ease that goes over and helps uh the you know helps the staffer push this card up and you know something like he didn't have to do that um you know he's in you know enduring a losing streak the program's in in disarray but you know he told us the next week that you know that's how he's raised and you know he feels that he had a job beyond you know just being a football player in the program that he has to help everyone in the program so I think that's a really good window into the type of person you'd be bringing into your program. Gotcha. Gotcha. Um, so I have a humongous draft crush on deny Dennis Sutton. He's one of my favorite players that I've watched so far. Um, he is uh you know an edge rusher, a prospect, six five, two hundred and seventy pounds, you know, ran a ridiculous three-cone uh drill at the scouting combine that you know basically puts him with some very, very elite company in terms of edge rushers. I don't know if I'm asking you to like talk me out of this or just you know push me further into uh you know being all in on him as a day two prospect for the Eagles on the edge there. But uh what can you tell me about him? Yeah, I I think the day two like uh framework fits for him. I I think that that's where where he belongs because you know he doesn't have that bend that you see in some of the the real top flight guys, you know, but he's someone that, you know, he was listed, I think, at one point uh during his career at 270 pounds. So he can wear that well on that six foot frame. I think that gives you a little bit of versatility um of moving him around. You know, maybe you can put him on the inside a little bit. He can use that length, get into some passing lanes, that sort of thing. He has the pedigree. He has a five-star prospect uh in the 24-7 sports rankings back in the class of 2022. Um, you know, he picked Penn State uh over schools like Alabama and Georgia uh and then decided to stick around uh you know for his senior year. And not only did he do that, he finished his senior year. You know, he was the only guy, you know, who played in the bowl game, you know, of these , you know, upperclassmen. I might be missing, you know, Trevor Pena played, um, you know, a couple other upperclassmen played, but you know, Denai was the guy. He was the top prospect who played. And the way that he framed it to us when we talked to him at Pro Day was he was just like basically like, why wouldn't I play if I had another chance? And also he's like, if other guys are gonna do their own thing, that doesn't affect me. He's like, I am my own person. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do. I'm not gonna like do something because it's co ol or or whatever like that. Um so he does have a little bit of that independent streak in him. Um, but he is an intense player. Go through the photo wire, you can see some crazy eyes. Um you know you'd see him you know basically like before big plays at Beaver Stadium, like powering up, like staring at the sky, screaming as the you know, opposing offensive line is coming up to the line of scrimmage. So he's got great, great play personality. Um Yeah, absolutely. It shows up on tape too, you know? It's like his so much of his profile checks the boxes the Eagles want to check. You know, former five-star recruit, uh, intense play personality, elite elite athletic testing, local kid, relatively local, maybe. Strolling the definition there a little bit, but yeah, I I'm very excited about him as a prospect. He's another one they had in a on a top thirty visit reportedly, and I I see why he that he's their type of player. Uh so we're doing running backs on on uh today's show. And one one question I have for you, watching K-tron Allen and Nicholas Singleton , why did they platoon those guys their entire career? Like Nicholas Singleton, yeah, I I this is a stat from uh from France draft guide. He had just one game with more than 15 carries in 2024, despite averaging 6.4 yards per carry. So my question to you is like, what was it that James Franklin was like, you know, what was the coaching staff's plan there with those guys and why did Nicholas Singleton have such limited usage despite his production? Yeah, I mean, I think that's part of the recruiting cell to get two to p flight running backs in the class of 2022 in and then also keep them. Um, you know, Nick Singleton, five-star prospect, in-state kid from Reading, uh Katron Allen, you know, he was a top two, four, seven prospect. He's from Norfolk originally, finished his career down at IMG Academy. You know, so he came in kind of ready to go, you know, used to the college atmosphere a little bit. But I think for running backs coach, Jaywan Sider, who's now at Notre Dame, coached up Jeremiah Lov and Jadarian Price this year, and for James Franklin. I think that they viewed it as the way to keep these guys happy, keep them both in the building. And also, big selling point, hey, you want to play in the NFL , we're not going to run you into the ground. So I think that that's something that they also use to um you know recru you know as a recruiting pitch and a way to keep these guys happy. But you do look at the numbers and especially during their first two years of their their career like it's pretty crazy like K-tron 167 carries as a freshman singleton 156 when they were sophomores uh K-tron had 172, singleton had 171. Um and you would see at different points during the season. Like they would have the exact same number of carries. I think that you know there's bigger discussion to have about if that's a a good way to you know run a team, run a program, but it got both of these guys to the end of their careers, I think relatively fresh, and the opportunity to play in the NFL. Yeah, so I've only I watched tapes, I took I watch tape on both these guys. You know, I looked at their their profiles in uh Fran Duffy's draft guide on our web site. Uh, who would you say was probably the one that was, you know, maybe getting the short end of the stick with this platoon that they had in place here? Who would you say would have played more if they weren't so worried about kind of making sure that both of them were happy with the situation. I I think you saw it uh this past fall, you know, midway point of the season, James Franklin gets fired. Um I think they were relatively even in their carries, but Catron Allen's production was dramatically outpacing Nick Singleton's. And Terry Smith came in as the interim, and they said that we're going to double down on being a physical smash mouth football team. They also lost Drew Aller in the same game, you know, that was Franklin's last. So they did do a lot of retooling on the fly. And they really just leaned in to Nick Singleton or to K-tron Allen as the bell cow down the stretch. You know, singleton still got in there, you know, a a couple times and you know they were able to use his skill set, but you know, they really did lean into Allen uh down the stretch. And you know, you look at his his final, you know, basically after Terry Smith took over. Like he had 28 carries in that first game. He averaged 23.3 carries down the stretch. Um, so I think you know Allen was the hot hand last year um and they were really able to to ride him down the stretch and you know they still worked in singleton you know still got him the you know the touchdowns record and the all-purpose yards record um you know at at Penn State, but K-tron Allen was playing better and that showed up down the stretch. Yeah, yeah. And it's reflected in Fran's rankings too. He's got K-tron Allen as a seventy-first player on his board. Uh Nick Singleton at one forty eight. I like Nick Singleton though. I thought he was like a fun watch, uh, still, but uh yeah, it was very curious about the usage when I was looking at those guys. Um, really quick, let's buzz through the other guys. So um I think we should probably start with Drew Aller. Uh honestly, he feels uh like another Eagles-y type pick at some point, probably on I don't know, probably early day three, if I had to guess where the Eagles would like to draft a backup quarterback. But uh I guess how would you s what would you say to Eagles fans who are curious about him as a potential Terra McKee successor in the long term. I mean he could take up another spot in the quarterback factory. Um go through that developmental program. Um yeah I mean I I think with Aller like personally I don't think he's going to be there early day three. Like I think some one's gonna fall in love and he's gonna go day two. I think I I pegged it like between like forty five and ninety five uh in in that pick range. Um just because like he's got all the tools. He can make all the throws and i do think he's gonna interview well and i think he's gonna do the board well um you know he's a football junkie you know all those sorts of things it really depends on is the you know does this franchise feel comfortable with his mental makeup um you know and do they look at some of the struggles as the situation he was in being you know not exactly a match for Andy Kodel Nicky's offense or do they see it more on you know the player. Um but I do think that you know you you watch him in practice. Yeah. Practice all I remember w I was at uh Penn State's Pro Day a couple of years ago uh doing a story about Saquon and we were hanging out uh in that in the practice bubble and I'm just watching Drew Aller throw and it's like, Yeah, this guy looks like a first round quarterback. So you're right, it is a it's a trades position. Uh and for that reason he could he could end up going higher than we expect. But I think he's probably somebody on the Eagles radar if he does fall into those middle rounds. You know, it's hard to see them using a third-round pick on Drew Aller, but a fourth or a fifth rounder, I could see that. How about , you know, I really liked Zayn Durant when we watched him yesterday. I think that as like a Moro Ajomo replacement, I guess what stands out about him and you know his time at uh at with the with the with Penn State? So my my Zayn Durant story is uh when the first time we saw the the early enrollee freshman in February 2022 there at a you know a a a charity event uh for pediatric cancer and Durant was in in number twenty eight. I heard heard Bo talking about that. I love the number. Yeah. And I thought I initially thought he was K tron Allen because he was wearing number twenty-eight. And we all knew that K Tron Allen's name is K-Tron Allen was his nickname was Fat Man. Like he was a he was a big guy uh coming in. And then, you know, immediately realized that I was like, oh, that's the new defensive ta ckle. All right, let's see how he develops. But you know, he went from being a 255-pound guy on signing day to being up near 300 pounds, kept that explosiveness. I think the defense last year was really in dis array for much of the season. So it's really hard for me to, you know, totally grade out his performance. Um, but I think that he is someone that if you bring him in to be a situational player, he can do good things for you. For sure. All right. I'm gonna let you pick between Drew Shelton and Zakey Wheelie. Who do you think should be more on Eagles fans radar? Is the safety or the offensive lineman here? I mean Shelton's the local kid uh from from down in town ye,ah by back yard basically. And we we know how the the Eagles love to stockpile those offensive linemen and see what you can get. Um, but I think Wheatley has a little bit more of an interesting trajectory um from his career. He was a five-year guy. You know, he you know started his career as a corner, moved to safety. He's one of those guys that, you know, according to who you talk to, teams were sniffing around him, you know, saying, hey, you know, maybe you should come into the portal, you know, see what's you know, come play for us, you know, we can take care of you. Um, but you know, he stuck it out at Penn State. And I think that he is an example of you know the different developmental curves that you get. You know, during the 2023 season, um, you know, Penn State gave up you know two like long touchdowns against Indiana uh in a game that they really had to come back and win late. You know, Wheatley got benched. You know, he's playing with KJ Winston and Jalen Reed, two guys who were drafted last year. You know, they they put him on the bench. We don't see him again. Um, and then his role the rest of the year was you know maybe a little bit smaller. You know, the story we heard from Anthony Poinde xter, the former safeties coach and Franklin was that you know they had a meeting with him that winter and he was basically like I want to be good I want to be you know a playmaker here I want like I want this to work um and you know his maturity finally caught up you know, to that skill set. And from then on, you know, his last two years on campus, I think he was definitely among the more consistent defensive players on Penn State. Like it went from that thing where some when you notice a safety, sometimes that's because something broke down and he's the guy that that's left chasing um something. But that really limited, you know, or went down, stopped happening. You know, he can play physical despite his reputation as a ball hawk. You know, we saw him lay some big hits. And you know, it didn't quite come through uh in his in his stats, but he is a guy who was always around the ball. Anytime there was a turnover, anytime there was an interception, you know, it seemed like he's you know forcing the fumble, recovering the fumble, you know, getting his hands on a football, you know, and making a game-changing play. So you know, I think that he's someone that, you know, I know he didn't test the best, but he's someone who I think his play speed shows uh and that he knowss where he' supposed to be and knows how to play that safety position. Gotcha, gotcha. There and by the way, really last question here. Do we have any more nicknames for these guys? You you mentioned Fat Man for K tron Allen. Is there any other like good nickname that if one of these guys does end up with the Eagles that fans are gonna need to know about? Oh man, I mean Drew Shelton was with Shelley, uh but you know that that's more like uh in in the locker room, but I mean Drew Aller, like for uh for K Tron Allen, it got shortened from fat man to fat , where you know Drew Aller would be talking to us and be like, oh yeah, Nick and Fat did this, Nick and Fat did that. Uh pretty funny. Uh Nick Singleton's nickname for a little bit was Gatorade because he was the the National Gatorade player of the year. Um but that didn't quite stick. Um I mean that is a pretty that's a pretty like flexed name right there, you know, not yeah, it's just like uh no nothing else on on the fat man level though. Yeah, that's a good nickname though. It's good nugget. That's that's why that's why we have you on, Daniel. I knew you were gonna have really good insight on all these guys and really get to the nitty-gritty of the the nicknames and yeah, some of these great anecdotes. So I appreciate you joining us. 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Running back not so much. Okay. Uh well let's let's let's work through a couple other guys in in your top ten here including your running back three from the great Wake Forest University Demond Cl aiborne, 5'9 and 3 quarters, 188. Ran a blazing 437. This is a guy who who you're you're you're betting on the juice, the the open field speed. I am. And I think that, you know, to me, I s when I s did Tom Clayboard over the summer, saw a guy that I thought could be a really good third down kind of scat back option in the NFL. He's he's got lateral quickness, he's got breakaway speed. Uh he's an accomplished return man. He can catch the ball out of the backfield. He'll give you some effort and pass protection. He really reminded me of Naheem Hines uh when Hines was coming out of NC State, by the way, uh a player that Nick Siriani is extremely fond of during his time in Indianapolis. So uh if he sees a little bit of uh of Heinz, I wonder if there would be uh some attraction there. But uh I think to me with Claiborne, the fact that he is an accomplished kick returner, um, that would be something that would give me a little bit of juice for him on early day three. He reminded me a little bit of Kenneth Walker in the way that both of them are kind of, they're always trying to get outside and use that speed. And I wasn't sure if that was going to work in the NFL for Kenneth Walker. It it certainly did, so uh and certainly has. So I'm I'm not I'm not betting against someone as smart as Damon Claiborne. Um I liked him. I didn't I didn't but I liked him. Yeah. That's kind of the that's the nature of this this running back group. Is that there's a a few guys there's it's not even like oh there's lots to like there's a few guys to like one guy to love and yeah that's about it. Uh now did you get to see the segment when friend and I or when EJ and I said our favorite guys in this class. No, I just missed it. So I was I was listening up until I think you guys were just starting Judarian Price. Okay. So I wanna I want to see how well you know us. Let's see how it's mine . Oh. Yeah , but you would have guessed it anyway. Well EJ's again, because we know like uh you know the the volatility of this uh EJ's was either gonna be like the traiti est guy or it was going to be like the most uh you know rugged workman like running back in the class. Um and so I did I did think it would end up be the Tracy guy. Not surprising at all that it's Arkansas running back Mike Washington. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's awesome. He's great. He actually was compared by Fran to Kenneth Walker. Now that's not the primary comp, that's the upside comp. That is like if he hits his ceiling. So yeah, I like him. I like him . I saw to me like I saw more like Christine Michael, like the the guys that I'm typically frustrated by are the ones that like uh that's where Mike Washington falls in for me. Uh I am definitely lower on consensus than what on Washington than than everybody else. Can I give you like the most sacrilegious player comp for Mike Mike Washington? I like you know a little Darren McFadden in there. It's tall Arkansas running back. Just like you know the nostalgia aspect, not as a player, obviously not. Yeah, I love the idea of comparing him to a first round bust. That's right. Yeah. I mean, I actually don't think that's the craziest comp. No, it's not. I mean , yeah, I don't know if I I will pump the brakes a little bit on that one, even we've got a super chat on this front, Fran, and that is from Jack Royer , who says thoughts on his fellow Wahoo Jamari Taylor. He's older, but not worried about the second contract for a day three running back and mainly looking for early contributions. Jamari Taylor, about 510, 197 , very slow 40, 463, very slow 10 yard split, 163. Uh he had 5.1 yards per carry, whereas his teammates had 4.9. So he was above that. 1,000 yard season, four to three catches over the course of his career. You like him? If you read my report on Jamari Taylor, um, I like Jamari Taylor. He's a guy that I would say, like, yep, I like this player. Now, the upside is the guy, like I I don don't't think he's got phenomenal upside but this is a player that I think sticks in the league for a long time. Like I I wrote down Devin Neal um uh or sorry I did write down Devin Neal but uh the the my primary comp is um I think it was on the Giants for for uh all that time give me a second i've got it in front of me uh devon singletary where am i at uh devin singletary thank you um so uh devin to me and to me like devon singletary has been like a solid number two in the NFL for a long time. That's kind of how I view Jamari Taylor. Really efficient, good vision, not going to blow you away with like make you miss and power and like long speed. Um a little bit of like Arian Foster-ish, like in terms of you know Foster turned into an all like a Pro Bowl, like you know, all pro type of rank. Like I don't I don't think that's the case, but in terms of hey, he got he's gonna go late rounds and he's going to get drafted, Taylor. Uh he's gonna go late rounds . Yeah, to me, like if you told me he became like uh Alfred Morris, like it wouldn't shock me. Like, oh he goes somewhere for a zone blocking team and he just hits, like that that wouldn't shock me at all. Okay. Uh last one in your top ten to discuss is your running back seven, which is Le'Veon Moss from Texas AM. Uh had a does f fares pretty well in the yards per carry, point eight yards better than If you just want somebody to get you the four yards that are blocked, he'll do that and not much else, right? Yeah. Uh you know, kind of uh you know, short yardage-ish type of back, like you know, he's he's efficient in that way, but not gonna create yards for himself, not a dynamic athlete, was b uh hurt by injury this year. Um so yeah, that's uh that's kind of the book on Moss. Uh I did not get a chance to guess your favor ite though. Oh, that's right. See all you know me. So that's why so I'm looking . Is it Emmett Johnson ? Fran, I love you so much. Let's go. It's so nice to know when somebody somebody knows you well. Why do you think I liked Emma Johnson? Um, I'm gonna guess you liked Emmett Johnson a lot because he was extremely productive this year, probably more productive than his peers. Uh he's got juice. He's got some big play potential. Yeah. Not a lot of guys in this class do. And that's probably it. Did you see my comp for him? What was it? Former Eagle. Briefly . Preseason Darling. Oh, Raheem Mostert. Raheem Mostert. That's a good one. I like that. Yeah, I think that's kind of I think he could be that kind of player. Uh and then I I also quite like Jonah Coleman. If I was I mean , Coleman is so here's the thing with Coleman. Um I like Coleman and I typically like backs like Coleman. He reminded me, I wrote down like Khalil Herbert, like he's kinda like you know, the the bowling ball like you know to create he did this thing i think i i think i was in studio when this came out and i may have shown you bo um so some uh someone sent this to me it was during the fall and it was a post on social media that that uh that Coleman had put out. And it was like a transformation, like oh like you know, before and after kind of thing. Yeah. And it was like, you know, him really out of shape and then like him in shape. Yeah. And the re you would think like typically when a guy posts that it's like, oh, like this is me freshman year versus me, like uh versus me now. It was literally like the end of last season, like literally January of 2025 to March of 2025. Well, you know what's what's funny about that? And I well actually I will tell you what's funny about that, Fran, in overtime . Watching him, I I started with the Arizona stuff. And at Arizona, he looked like a completely different guy. And then the first year at Washington, it looks like he put on like 15 pounds. And he looked slower and less dynamic. And then that senior year it looked like it was a little bit back. So I wonder if I I guess it would be better if it was just a one year blip and not that was his whole life until his senior year, but it did feel like that that that his body had changed. Yeah. I I think that the and I from what I kind of gather, like the weight has been a little a bit of an issue. But he's that he's not a bad kid. Like I've talked with multiple West Coast scouts about him. It's like, yeah, like good kid. Um, you know, uh from Compton, like you know, not like the the like the cleanest, like upbringing, like but he's like good kid, like came out of that really, really well, and uh like no concerns about him whatsoever. There's like the weight, like you kind of keep an eye on it, but um good player. I I I like Jonah Coleman. I just don't think that it's like starter. I think he's more like a running back two three type. Okay. Uh so those are the guys I really liked. And then there's there's three guys who I am mildly curious about late on day three. Uh or even really only one of them I would I think would I would draft and then the other two I would be interested in bringing into camp. Uh the one who I like on day three , if you're gonna take a shot on day three, this to me is the guy, Robert Henry Jr. from Texas San Antonio. Um 5'9 and a quarter, 199, around a four, five, one. Very productive. He looked like a really fluid athlete to me. Um, and I think there is some juice and upside. And I would rather take a shot on a guy who I don't know if he can compete at this competition level than a bunch of these guys who were just mid against you know D one competition. Surprised. Uh you're because he's a six year senior. Um but I guess uh the uh age aspect of the running back position. Running back it's very important. Uh it doesn't seem like it because you would think okay, this is just their first contract, you don't need to worry about it. But in terms of like finding elite players, right. They they come out early. But I can think the elite elite they for for the elites, I think it's important. That's right. But I am also I am I am I'm okay with a twenty four year old if he was he's from a faller s a smaller school. There's you know of course he's not gonna leave early from Texas San Antonio. Yeah. Yep. Um yeah typically not uh I think to me I I liked Henry. It was a little bit of a slow burn. And I part of it is that like he cause he got off to a hot start. He was one of the leading rushers in in college football the first like four or five weeks. And so there was a lot of hype early on. Like, oh this guy could be like a day two. And I'm watching like ah like I don't quite see that. But I I liked him in person at the Shrine Bowl. Um well put together uh and he does have some juice. Uh he didn't test as well as expected, but uh tested fine. Uh I I like Robert Henry. I'm looking through some of his clips now and he he was like radar tracked at twenty one point seven miles an hour, but his forty time no was let's see here forty well and that was the thing uh EJ was that like I was watching I'm like I don't know that like it the the the juice like blew me away on film. I think I kind of wrote that was like, yeah, I like my the eye test doesn't quite match the GPS numbers. Yeah. But then the eye test matched the 40 time. So I'd say it's yeah it's a tough one. Uh and then there's two guys who who I'd be you know uh I would we would love to have you in camp. We're gonna give you a nice guarantee. Okay. Uh again, just because you're looking for guys who what's the re you know, uh what's the reason why they might get better. I'm a little bit interested in Adam Randall from Clemson, the wide receiver, turned running back. I mean you can tell he does not look like a running back. He's very much like he's very much playing out of position. He looks like a a wide receiver. He's like six, three and a half, two, two twenty something. Can I cut you off there real quick? Yes, yeah. He doesn't look like a receiver either, though. Like that's where I get that's where I get held up. Is that like uh I'm going to the senior bowl and he's down there and they do all the one-on-ones, and he wants every single rep. And I'm like, Yep, that's right, take every one. Oh, okay. I can't see him win one catch against the linebacker. I'm like, dude, like, come on, man. Like that this is this should be it. This should be your drill. I'm sure his agent told him, like, yeah, take every single one of these reps that you can. Um it wasn't he he had to have taken like twenty reps in one-on-ones. It wasn't until the very final one he went up and like Moss the guy in the end zone like over once. Like I he was a former like four star receiver, like you know big body and yeah, I just didn't see that. That reminds me. I have a very interesting information. I don't know if you guys have have heard this . No, no, I'm this is I'm serious. This blew me away the other day. Okay. You know, you know, like when you're growing up the the game uh 500, you know, you throw the ball up and somebody's got to catch it. You know, you're thrower assigns points. Wasn't that called Jackpot? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yep. Oh, you guys called Jackpot. Get it's got a different name as far as they the kids were playing it before practice the other day. They calling it Moss. Moss. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. I like that. Isn't that awesome? I really like that. I love that. When we were when we were kids. Yeah. Moss. I love that. Yeah. Pretty good. It's like, oh, we're playing Moss. It's like, oh, that's great. Do they even know who Randy Moss is? I would hope so. Um so yeah. I think that's fine. I'm not um and then a guy who I'm not even not even like a priority, but I'd like to have camp just I was a little bit interested in his running style. He's undersiz ed. This is just I I I kinda want to see him in camp. That's Dean Connors from Houston. Oh man I f you see him up close, you don't want to see him in camp. Okay. That's it. I mean it would be a funny bit like uh for uh for the show, but yeah, it's uh I'm I'm okay. Okay. He might get drafted just because a little like the the average because the average And it's it's a slog to get there this year. So there you know, if uh if a team like loves them, thinking you can play special teams and stuff like that, like maybe he goes 19-20. Um yeah Last one then . I think other places have him as a running back. And he is an interesting player to me. This would have to be no question. This would be one to put in there, yeah. Yes. Uh I and I think uh a reasonable day three selection, and that's Eli Heidenreich from Navy. Now, we don't know if he can even play right away, right? I I've almost like given up with these because and it's the same thing with Landon R uh with Landon Robinson and like you know because it it changes year to year and from what I understand it has to do it's like an individual basis like getting cleared to be able to play in the league right away you know from the military academy. So I think he'd be fine, but yeah. Ex I mean it seems like he's fine, but yeah, it's a that's a whole thing. He is six foot, one ninety eight, uh short arms, which is more of a red flag because his real value is going to be as like a slot receiver type. Um he can carry the ball for you. But I I thought it was I thought it was pretty interesting. Yeah. I so I studied him in like October, November for the first time. And you know it was l listed as a running back and so I'm watching him and and look the navy doesn't run like the triple option the way that they used to um but they'll still get into some option he looks and what he spent most of his time as like a what you would call like a wing back, right? So like in the triple option, it's like uh you know, you think of the quarterback under center, running back right behind him, and then you have the two running backs kind of like in the wing, like offset a little bit. Uh, and then it's like all right, you've got the dive or you've got the pitch, you know, that kind of deal. So that's kind of where Heidenrich spent most of his time, and then he would kick out to the slot. So he did take a lot of handoffs, but it's not a lot of like pure running back handoffs. And then I'm watching him as a receiver, and you know, whether it was like stuff from the wing and he's like releasing up the field or like real routes from the slot. And I'm like, all right, like he's got lateral quickness as a route runner. Like that's that shows up. He can snap off breaks. He's pretty good. He catches everything. He's tough as as as it gets and i'm like yeah like he's a slot receiver and my grade was like when i when i did the grade i was my grade's high you know and so i'm like okay like i i really like him and so i'm like, all right, well, he's listed he, he go goes,es to the shrine and he's listed as a running back. I'm like, all right, well watch it. Well, I'm looking through the with this prism. You know, maybe he's running back receiver, whatever. He looked terrible in pass protection drills, caught everything as a runner, like kind of just like you know, whatever, like okay, but it's practice, like, you know, so I'm getting a ton of so I'm leaving there and I'm like I'm yeah, I'm keeping with the receivers. So then we go he gets the combine invite and it's as a running back. So I'm like, all right, like same deal. They go in running back combine workout. It's actually one of my least favorite workouts because they do like two running back drills. Then after that, it's all pass catching. So the bag drills that he did for running back, he like hit three bags, he stumbles once, you know, whatever. And then he does all the receiver drills and he looks awesome. And I'm like, this kid's a receiver. Like I'm leaving him a receiver. But every time I talk with anybody, scout, like a media type that's like tied in with scouting, like whatever, I'm like, yeah, I've got him in my receiver bug. Yeah, like I I view him as a receiver. Yeah, I view him as a receiver. Um, you know, I talked with two north northeast scouts about them, you know, one that evaluated them last year in 2024 and one off this year. And they're like, Yeah, I kept him with my receiver. So I don't know. I I think the way I'm looking at it is because the running back class was so bad, the numbers were so bad, yeah. Those events were inviting him as a back, literally like from a number standpoint. Yeah. Um that's the only thing that's the only reason I've landed there. But I think that teams are gonna view him as a receiver. And I think I do I think he could be like a starting slot. I do. I think he could be like if you told me, like if Bill Bill Belichick would take this guy in the third round and he would be right, but I I really do think like the McVay style systems, which here in Philadelphia like I uh you you could tell me this kid's a slot receiver and I can get there and I think he could be a starter. To me this is I mean it's uh it's very much if this is a role that you want in your offense this guy's gonna be good at it. Uh and and you know, so I don't know if the Eagles if if they even envision having this role in the offense, but if they do , I mean, I'm it. Right at four four, four four four. Like, I like him. Dude, I'm telling you, you if you watch him just like if you just watch all like his targets like purely as a receiver, there is plenty to get excited about. And I I think this receiver class is fine. But honestly, like when I get into like the middle rounds of receiver, I'm not like super juiced about a ton of the guy I I like him I like Heidenrich yeah he's one one of my like green players in this class he's he's a he's one of my nice yeah uh we have a super chat from earlier from Matthew Greenwood and and this I'll ask you about this one too, friend, because this is a player who you are relatively low on. Uh, and that is Nick Singleton. He says, I'm here to back my guy, Nick Singleton. He's been killed by this process and injury. A more explosive Miles Sanders shouldn't be going in the fifth round . I would argue that Miles Sanders shouldn't have gone in the second round, would be what would have been my argument to that. But here's what I'd say. I was low on singleton coming into the year. Back in the summer, like I had a higher grade on K-tron Allen and uh EJ, great job with uh with Dan Gallon. Uh, you know, I I enjoyed that p that interview. Um to me, like I had a higher I had a higher grade on K-tron than then Singleton. Singleton is just such a it's a it's very boomer bust and it all he always kind of left me one thing from like a vision decisiveness standpoint. I think he needs things to be really clear for him up front uh and really well defined in terms of like rush lanes and landmarks and things like that. So like zone blocking schemes. To me, like that's not him. I want him downhill and just letting him roll. I really liked him on third down. Like I thought he made some phenomenal catches. I've got a few clips in the draft guide kind of showing off what he could do as a receiver. Uh I think he's not like a shifty athlete. He's you know bigger and like straight line speed. Um so as a receiver, like you're gonna use him, you know, I imagine like David Johnson, like you know, when he was coming out of Northern Iowa for the Cardinals, like that kind of athlete. But you know, in pass protection, also like he would have a couple games that were really bad, but then mostly good. I thought he was one of the better pure pass protectors. He goes to the senior ball and he didn't look great in pass protection drills there. But again, like off film, I thought he was solid. I just I got to me, like I think one of my comps is like Samaj P. Ryan, like I think that that's kind of what he is, is like a dirty work back up back, um, that it's going to get bigger in the league. And I think he'll probably lose some of that juice. And if when when he loses that juice, like I don't know what we're talking about. Whereas K-tron Allen like has never had juice at all, but he's just like really efficient, really decis ive. Just gonna pick up whatever he needs for it, and then he can create some yards for himself just because of his contact balance and his feel. Um I just I just like K-tron Allen more a little bit more as a pure runner . Just every time you mention a comp like that, like Samaj Piran, I can't stop thinking about lesser Chow Smith Wade, which is remains the Chow Smith Wade has been a starting nickel for the last three years in the NFL. Two years in the NFL. Um there's someone else in the chat who wants to know about uh Jaden Ott and his dynamic twenty twenty three tape. It's Zach Berman . Um yeah Jaden Oh now he talks. Yeah Jaden Uh so J uff. Um I think when you're when you're looking at I'm trying, Zach. Um you know, Jaden Knott, you know, to me, it's tough because yes, 2023, he looked like one of the more dynamic running backs in college football. He's a cow, he's played you know, Fernando Mendoza's there. It's one of his first years as a starter. Uh, big playback, looked like a future, you know, top 50, top 75 type of selection. 2024 season happens out of Cal. He's hurt for most of the year. He's dinged up. He's in and out of the lineup. Doesn't get a lot of run. So then he ends up trying to get getting into the portal. They had the coaching change. Um you know Mendoza leaves. So Jaden goes in the portal, becomes a late edition for Oklahoma back early in the or uh late in the spring. Goes to Oklahoma and he's still dinged up coming off the injury. And coming out of the summer, coming out of camp, it's like, oh, like, all right, like he's not ready yet, but he's gonna be here soon. And I've I've I've mentioned a few times that Oklahoma came to the link to to play against uh to play against Temple. And that was the game where they were like, oh like he's healthy. We're probably gonna see Jade Knott today. And so I go out there and I'm like I'm watching go go through warm-ups and I'm like, oh, he's he's kinda like you know, he's not with the first and second unit as they're going through walkthrough. Um, and yeah, like barely, barely played if at all, in the game. And so, you know, kind of digging around. Basically, it seems like it from the jump they it just wasn't like a great fit. Um and so that but that was it. That was all of his eligibility. So he ends up going into league. Now he gets the invite to go to the senior bowl. And that was big for him because to me like he went from like completely off the radar and maybe in even in this class probably undrafted. I thought he had a pretty good week in mobile and kind of like gave great effort in pass pro and you know did did some things in in team periods. Like I'm like all right like yeah he he showed a little bit of what got people excited a couple So I do think he ends up getting drafted. Um, but again, it's probably like the late round, it's a it's a it's a late round kind of situation. Uh and we'll see how teams feel about him from the like the the toughness, you know, grittiness aspect of things. He is one of the guys who who had a worse yards per carry than his teammates for the record, four point nine versus uh five point three. He's small. Small hands . Was that just from the last year, Bo or the career? No, that's his whole it's it's every year of your career that you had at least 30 carries. Got it. Require. Um so it's fine. Yeah. It's this running back class is brutal. Because I'm even like looking and I'm like, oh like my is it the worst you is it the worst you can remember? I think so. Yeah. I think I think this is the worst running back class that I've seen. Um yeah. RB thirteen, right? Like it is Noah Whittington from from Oregon. It's like, okay, like that would be a typical like sixth, seventh round pick. But like by pecking order, like RB thirteen is typically like a fourth round pick, you know, fifth round pick. Yeah, I don't think I would use I I would there's not a single player in this group I would use a day two pick on. Right. Yeah. I think like yeah, certainly by the time we get to this point, I think in terms of day two, like gener ion price, I'm there. If you told me it was like, you know, supplemental pick in round three both you're not watching 'cause we're squinting at Judarian Price as a as a day two pick. What's that? We're both squinting at Judarian Price as even a day two pick. Yeah, I don't like him there. A lot of people are talking about like him thirty two. That's crazy to me. I I wouldn't no I mean You play any instruments, Fran ? Do I play there's been buzz in the chat about uh PHOY Eagles show band . You play an instrument ? Um I was patient. I waited . Uh no. No. I played uh I played clarinet for like uh six weeks in fifth grade. But that was it. That's that bad boy off. Did the did the piano for uh for a few years. Yep. And uh did like a year of the drums. That's it. You're uh you're the front man, Bo. I mean that's a that's a the lock of the Does anybody remember laughter ? Uh if you have questions for friend, you can ask them on Monday at the virtual Q A that we're gonna have. 8 p.m. only for diehards. Diehards only. Virtual QA . Check it out. Uh I think we had one other super chat from earlier. Chase Daniel Plainview. Do you see any relation between the DOJ's investigation into the NF They will . Shrewd negotiators deals all the time. I agree with SRG in the chat said I had Bo as an Oboist Yeah, I could have seen that . He's just making a bow joke. Yeah, but I still could say that. Oh, if you could if you could play any instrument well, what would it be? Piano. Piano. Piano is the answer. As someone who plays guitar well. Piano is the answer. Yeah I did uh I to I did take a piano class at Temple like a one credit course but that did not stick. Yeah it translates to every other instrument so naturally like yeah but let's say but but let's say that that's not that's not the upside here. It's you're you're only allowed to play this one instrument. Yeah, I think piano is great. I mean it's it's beautiful. Like to be able to play like a grand piano. Yeah. Um while we're talking about music, they asked me Saxophone for me love a saxophone oh yeah I mean saxophone and guitar are very similar that's a good answer okay um both single I think the way the way I look at piano though it's like uh you could go to like a random like a a random yeah a random party, a random like uh like a bar, and it's like, oh there's a piano in the corner, like oh they don't know how to buy and you can go in and just feel the room. Like to me, like that's that would just be that's a great experience. As opposed to the guy playing a guitar for like eight people. Yeah. I mean who wants to be that guy? Well, yeah, you had a whole room that you were playing for. Yeah. So they asked. I was watching we're way behind on Survivor. And uh on the episode we watched last night, Zach Brown shows up for a reward challenge. And the reward is like, you know, he's he cooks some fish. That's good, it's very nice. But he's like playing songs for them like seven people right in front of his face. Yeah, playing guitar for a small group. Very bizarre. Yeah, it's weird. Yeah. It's a weird thing to do. It's not weird to do, it's just it feels very weird. Go ahead. I got it. my favorite distortion pedal is and in the closet I've got a pedal that you guys will not believe is called what it's called. And we're in bover time so I feel okay doing this . Big muff Jesus This thing's about I I wish . I'm sad that this episode is not uh is not in the studio because I think Lindsay's probably laughing. Uh yeah, I texted I texted her a picture and was like, is it okay for me to put this on the on the show ? It's a classic distortion pedal. It's one of the most popular distortion pedals ever made. Red hot chili peppers, if you're a fan, you've heard this pedal a bunch. I've heard a couple of covers of their songs . Lindsay Lindsay just said EJ texted her a picture of his muff . I got censored in the chat saying it. I I said I'm gonna show Bo. I'm not gonna say it again, but I I said I was gonna show Bo this pedal and it it didn't go through in the chat . All right . Good stuff, everybody. Yeah, yeah. Good weather. What are you doing this we ekend? We have uh opening day ceremonies tomorrow for baseball. So we got that. We had although we had our first game last night. Um oh, how'd it go? You know what ? Really happy with my team. Yeah, I thought I thought they were it was o we had like four practices beforehand. Um and so this was the first game and what are the what are the rules here? So we it's it's uh machine pitch uh right now and we'll see kind of how it goes as we go. Um for the first couple games, we're like, all right, we're gonna let guys bat th let teams bat through the order just to kind of get you know get the kids acclimated and then we'll start getting into like three outs and the you know the full deal. But the bigger thing is just like , you know, learning all the rules, right? And so and that's kind of what I was trying to really hit for for all of our kids. Uh and I told I told Francis, like, because he was getting down on himself last week because it was like, you know, he's playing shortstop and he's trying to figure out like oh, like the ball's hit air, I gotta cover second, it's over here over here, I got you cover