Final Thoughts and Odd Food Choices

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At Strayer University, we help students like you go from is it possible? to anything is possible by offering access to up to 10 no-cost gen ed courses so you can reach your goals affordably and fast. Visit Strayer.edu to learn more. No-cost Gen Ed's provided by Strayer University Affiliate Sophia. Eligibility Rules Apply. Connect with us for details. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses, including at 2121-15th Street North in Arlington, Virginia. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the PHOY Eag les Podcast. We are live from the Xfinity Mobile Studio and presented by our good friends at Ashley and Bet365. I am your host, EJ Smith. I don't get used to saying that. I'm your host, CJ Smith, and I am joined by the Duff Man. I'm very excited to do this today's show. I have a seventh round or seven-round All-Eagles mock draft that Fran is just gonna probably eviscerate today, and I am excited for that you know we're gonna use this as a good exercise of um you know getting the draft stuff started you know we'll we'll go through position by position preview and I wanted to get a mock draft on the board early and then go through the process of watching more and more of these guys and then see how much it changes. So we 'll have that. We are also we will also be joined by Jeremy Fowler at some point during the show to discuss uh the story that him and Tim McManus had on ESPN.com yesterday. Uh and just you know general some some eagles news to discuss as well so it's it's a packed show but first and foremost Fran how are we doing doing great uh excited to be back it's it's a um we got a lot we got a lot to cover yeah I mean obviously there was the the big art you and Les I thought did a great job of really breaking down uh that article from uh from T Mac from Tim McManus and Jeremy Fowler uh yesterday on yesterday's show. So everybody make sure you go back and if you wanna uh make sure you digest that entire conversation, but I know we'll hit on that uh after the first break. Yeah, no, I appreciate that. It was always always good seeing less. I I did enjoy the conversation. You know, um when you're sleep deprived, like sometimes they say that uh you'll think you're doing a great job at something, but you're actually doing terribly. You know, that was like me after yesterday's show. I was like, I think that was a good show. And then like on the way home, I had to make sure to listen back to make sure I didn't sound like uh deranged or anything like that, getting off the red eye flight. So uh so yeah, I wanna I wanna go through a couple of the my early picks here uh on the mock draft before we get into uh the interview with Jeremy Fowler and talking about our thoughts on that piece that we we that we read yesterday. So it's an all-Eagles mock draft. We're not going to go through every team. The parameters that I would explain here are that, you know, this is a mock draft simulator, people. Um I wasn't me deciding who was going to be there at these various picks. And I would say that the other thing is there were a couple of times where there maybe was a player that would have like jumped out of on the board. Like, oh my goodness, I can't believe this guy's available in the third or the fourth round. I would pass on those players because I was trying to keep it realistic to a certain degree. Um now, Fran, you are more familiar with some of these players' draft ranges than me. Um, so I will be curious what you think of some of these. And I also wanted to list for a lot of the notable picks , um, some of the other players I considered heavily at those spots. Okay. So make sense? How do we feel about the exercise? I mean, I'm just excited to eviscerate your mock draft. Like this, this is going to be very fun. Um, trying to do it in one ro und like sorry, in one like uh one singular mock using the simulator is tough because like you mentioned, like uh there's some randomness involved. Not every single mock draft simulator is uh up to snuff when it comes to like what reality potentially would look like, but uh expect the unexpected when it comes to the NFL draft as well. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, uh the first one you're not gonna have an issue with. So we'll see. At number 23 , the Philadelphia Eagles select Kaden Proctor. Offensive lineman, Alabama. I think this is a pretty stock standard one. You know, this is a player we've discussed a lot on the show. Um, it's a player that I think makes a lot of sense for the Eagles. He checks a lot of boxes that the Eagles typically like to check with their first round pick from draft pedigree, starting experience, uh positional versatility and athleticism. He is size and athleticism, the combination there. Um obviously it's a little bit more of a projection on what he might look like in a post-Jeff Stoutlin world with the Eagles, but I think this is an this is a season, an off-season where the Eagles are going to really need to bolster their offensive line depth. And I think Caden Proctor, if you drafted him, you might you would probably have see a runway for him to start at right guard right away in place of Tyler Steen. Um so for me, yeah, I we can talk about some of the other players I considered here. Yep. But for me, he really jumped out on the board as a player that I think is somewhat realistic to fall to 23 for the Eagles there. Yeah, I I think at the end of the day, when you're looking at it, this is a this is certainly one of the most popular consensus picks for the Eagles at 23 overall and for good reason, all the things that you just laid out. I do think it's important. And you know, I'm glad that Lindsay flighted that graphic of uh you know one of my notes from my final summary of Caden Proctor is that he is while he is very high up on my board, he is far from a sure thing. And so that's the thing when I you know that's why uh when I say like here's my vertical board and look at the horizontal board and read the reports, like you know, just because I have one guy 11 and one guy 13 and one guy 16, they might be on the same tier of a horizontal board. And you know, if you're saying like, okay, I feel really good about this player reaching you know that certain level of play and that level of impact. And this one, maybe there's a little bit of a chance that he has a higher impact, but the floor is much lower, and the chance of him reaching that ceiling is a little bit scarier. That's kind of what we're talking about with Caden Proctor. Uh, I do think that there's a lot of volatility involved. Would I feel better about it if Jeff Stalin was in the building? Absolutely. If Jeff Stalin gives his stamp of approval there, uh, I feel a lot better about the overall outcome and the likelihood of him re aching that ceiling. Now, uh, there's reason to believe that yeah, like the Eagles should still have confidence in their ability to get the most out of a player like Caden Proctor. They've taken big swings at other development, you know, other developmental type of players uh in the past at different positions and they've been able to hit without Jeff Statlin directly in you know coaching that specific player, right? So uh you know I don't think that they would necessarily be scared off of a Caden Proctor solely based off that, but uh you would certainly feel better having Jeff Stalin in the building. That said, I mean the ceiling's sky high with Caden Proctor, and there would be a lot of reasons to be excited about that pick. Absolutely. Um do you think how do you think the Eagles well two-part question? I guess. How do you think they feel about his positional versatility? You know, I I know the Eagles like at least in the past they've been um they've pushed back on like the the sentiment you will hear a lot, which is that , oh well, if he if he fails a tackle, that's fine. You just bump up you give him a chance to fail at tackle, then you bump him to guard. You know, like that's something that I hear a lot said like in the pre-draft process about certain players. I I don't get the sense the Eagles love that framing. Like, you know, you don't want him to fail anywhere. Um, how do you think they'll view his positional versatility in terms of a plus or a minus? Uh, and also, I guess, you know, I guess how do they feel like internally? But then also, how would they present it. If Caden Proctor is the pick, when Hyrie Rosen's at the podium, what is he saying about his positional versatility? Yeah, my guess is is that they would look at it as he probably gets announced as offensive lineman, um, which I believe they did with Tyler Stein. They did. Yeah, I do remember that. Yeah. Right. Okay. I believe pretty sure they did that with Stein uh as well. And I think that when you're you're probably announcing him as offensive lineman and in the post draft press conference, I think the way that they you know the the way explain it is, yeah, we do expect that he's gonna come in and try and compete for a role right away. Um, but we do view his long-term future at tackle. That would be my guess, is how they would try and frame it. And uh I I do agree with the sentiment from a certain extent when it comes to like you don't want a guy to fail because that's hard. We know especially in a market like this, it is hard to go and and or fail early on at any position and then try and bounce back from that. Not a lot of guys do. And honestly, there's been a lot of research into like that's why guys that miss their rookie year due to injury, you know, guys that maybe they suffer uh a injury during the pre-draft process and they have to redshirt that first year, bouncing back from that mentally is harder than anything. And so being able to to really kind of re bounce back from those kinds of things um can be very difficult. And you might want to say, like, well, let's set him up for the best success that we can early on in his career. And there's a lot of people that would that would say like the best uh long term good spot for Proctor is at guard. Okay. Yeah. That's I've never heard it explained like that before. Um, that like early career failure is just a hard thing to overcome for especially you're drafted a guy in the first round. Like, my mind immediately goes to Andre Dillard. Like, you know, like you're playing on the right side of the offensive line early in his career and finding out he really was uncomfortable doing it. You're right. You know that you want to set these guys up for success. So do you think the fact that Proctor may be viewed as a guard only for the Eagles, or at least if you want him to be set up for success, starting along, starting in the interior, do you think that that would be maybe a factor against him at 23 here? You know, it would depend on who else uh they have valued at a similar tier that's still on the board. Like if you let's say they have Sadiq as a similar kind of grade and Kenya Sadiq's on the board, and maybe you feel a little bit better about his ability to reach his ceiling. And it's at a quote unquote like a maybe not as premium a position as offensive tackle, but uh if he's gonna if you're gonna take a tight end that high, he's gonna be a featured part of your pass game, like all right, so you're talking a potential like you know wide receiver one, wide receiver two level of player, level of impact, uh, then yeah, you might say like give me Sadiq if we feel a little bit better about what that long term and short term fit is. Man, I didn't think that this one's gonna make me like waver a little bit, but that explanation right there, like I viewed Proctor as a he can play right guard next to Lane Johnson and maybe he bumps out and you feel good about it type of player. But now that we're talking through it, so let's let's talk about the other players I consider because I think that this is a good segue into it. Um, first one, Dylan Thieneman, which I thought would be kind of fun. And you know, we can we can talk about safety. Well let's just do it now. I I I think this I had a lot to say about this actually. So going before owners meetings, I wouldn't have said I don't think that they're drafting Thieneman. I don't think they're going with a safety early in the I'm not saying I I think it's going to happen. Right. I'm putting more turkeys on it than I was before . The way that Nick Siriani and Howie Roseman talked about the safety position out there . Was just it was different than what I would have expected. I would have expected, especially Nick, to be like Marcus Epps, played good football for this team. We have a lot of confidence in him. Michael Carter. I he wasn't going to say Michael Carter was moving to safety because that gives away information, but you know, like we feel good about the guys we have in the room and we can continue to add. The fact that it was very front of mind for both Nick Siriani and Halle Roseman that you know the this is an incom plete evaluation at that position. You know, we still have moves to make. You know, Hallie Roseman said we will add at the at that position. You know, that doesn't sound to me like a day three safety. That doesn't sound to me like a day three pick. That sounds like, you know, not significant investment, but meaningful investment for a player that can compete to start for that safety spot opposite Drew Bakuba Maybe you're thinking like a trade for a veteran, but I've I think the a a first round safety , if they felt like this is a difference making player , I'd put like 15 turkeys on it. I'd put more turkeys on it than I would have a week ago. And I think Thieneman is probably the one that would make it to them at twenty three of those guys expected to go in the first round. So how do you f how would you feel about that if he was the one in my in my mock draft here? You know, I probably would have ripped you. Um I think that uh I'm assuming Sadiq was off the board, we can get into that and we don't have to answer that now. Um but I think that I don't know man. I to me if you're going and we've talked we've had this conversation ad nauseum, but uh if they're going to go defense, I really feel like the only position I would do that for would be a pass rusher. Um, you know, just in terms of like level of impact. Uh I like I like Dylan Thingeman. I like uh Emmanuel McNeil Warren. I think there's a safety from Toledo. Yeah, do you think he'll be there at 23? Which one? McNeil Warren? McNeil Warren, yeah. Uh, I think he's more likely to be there than Theneman. Okay. Um yeah, I do think that he's probably more likely. Thaneman has been like the very chic pick amongst the uh you know that I do like the um the consensus mock draft act the chart all of the sharp mock drafts, right? Like so you know the Darren Jeremiah's the Damien Pro of. That has been like one of the very like consensus picks that happen after pick 12, 15. That the now here's the thing though. This happens every year, right? Where you get into like pick 18, pick 21, pick 27, and there's a player and a team that almost always get married together and every single mock drafter puts that player on that team. Very rarely does that pick actually happen. Like very rarely. So um I'm not to say that you know Minnesota's definitely not taking taking Dylan Thieneman, but uh pretty much every mock draft like last year at this time it was jihad Campbell going to the Bucks. Jahad Campbell wasn't the Bucks board by the time we got the draft weekend. So I think and obviously they passed on him. So um, you know, I think that when uh when you look at that, yeah, there's a reason to believe that Thieman could be there, but I kinda lean that he won't at the end of the day. Okay, okay. Um yeah, I just and how how do you feel about the safety thing? Do you I mean first round safety feels very unlikely, but where else are they gonna get a guy that they can truly feel like walks in day one and competes for that job? You know, I'm gonna be honest, there was the show that I think it was was it the three of us or was it you and Bo did together? I think it was you you and Bo did the show where you talk about like uh trade candidates at different positions. Like I actually really like the the Grant Delpit. Uh I think that and then I think that was from Bo. I really liked that one. Um that was to me is a is kind of a sneaky uh all right, like regime change, uh kind of setup for Jim Schw artz to take over in 2027 anyway. Uh you know, get one of his uh his former pupils there. So um I I do like that one. You know, I think that to me like the veteran market does feel better in that sense , but you know, you let the draft come to you and see if uh if something changes because it it's it is a good safety draft. It is a legitimately like good draft for safeties. Uh there are you know two or three names that we're talking about in the first round. I think you get into day two and there's, you know, two or three more. Um so y if one of those guys falls to you in the second round, third round that you feel good about, that's great. I still would be a little bit queasy about having two really young guys at that position, uh, Makuba and this rookie, but yeah, I think that's something that maybe maybe they cross that bridge when you get there. Yeah, yeah. So Kenyan Sadiq and honestly, um well no Kenny on Sadiq was the one for me that he was available in the simulator that I did . I didn't feel great about him being available there. I felt like because then you could you get yourself into like, oh yeah, I just drafted the player that's way above everybody else on the on the board here. So he was on the board for me. Uh Blake Miller was on the board for me. KC Conception was and Omar Cooper was around that pick as well. Um I'm curious if any of those guys, obviously Sadiq is one that jumps out to you probably, but if any of those guys you would have said, okay, if those if they were also on the board, you should have gone there instead of Caden practic. Sadiq would be the one for me. You know, and I I think that, you know, a conception, I think he could swing me on as well. I I do like uh I like his game. Uh I think that he could play inside and outside. Uh I think that he makes sense in a uh AJ Brown world and in a post-AJ Brown world in terms of making that addition. So I would be good there. Um Sadiq is the one though where I'm like, man, uh to get that level of impact, uh, I think you could swing me there. I of course I lean more towards you know an offensive tackle uh in that but to me like um you know it's the whenever I have these position value conversations and I explain it in like my big board or something in the newsletter. Uh just because guy a guy has OT next to his name versus a guy that has T E next to his name doesn't mean that you automatically take the OT because it does come down to the individual evaluations. And if you feel that can you speak is more of a sure thing to re ach his ceiling versus Proctor because we all the questions we talked about with Proctor. You can get me there. Off the field I feel good. Um, you know, I think that his b he could be a much more productive pro, which by the way, you know, people say that all the time, at tight end that happens more often than not. You know, where we see gu guys in college at tight end that don't produce, that home don't have big numbers, but they've got all the traits and then they get into the league and they're able to figure it out and be productive pro. So um you know I I feel good about that with Sadiq. Yeah, you know, so again I I mostly didn't Sadiq there because I just it feels like a lot of these mock draft simulators like are slow to catch up on a player that I think he's gonna go top 15. So I I'm not I'm not trying to be unrealistic here. Yeah, um, but to your point, you know, we we I think it was a show with Olivia last week where we talked about if if you had to choose between Caden Proctor and Kenyon Sadiq, who do you choose? I actually do lean Sadiq. Uh and I've my argument was we've seen what Sean Manion's, you know, offensive staffs that he's worked on have done with tight ends. Tuckercraft is the example there. And I think that he opens up some like schematic versatility for this offense, you know, to be able to be multiple, to have two, three tight ends on the field, which you know I'm always a big fan of, and uh, you know, have some versatility in that room. And honestly, like you know, Ganyon Sadiq is the Dallas Goddard successor, is a perfect succession plan, and one that the Eagles typically have prioritize having you know a difference maker, difference maker in in waiting at that position. So I didn't go with him mostly because I just feel like I feel like he's uh this year's Michael Williams, where by the time that we're at draft weekend, he will never be past the 15 pick on mock drafts. But you know, a trade up, maybe, maybe, you know, especially if maybe you're not convinced by some of these offensive tackle prospects. So um all right. Can I give you one suggestion for the next time we do this exercise? Because we still have three weeks uh until the draft. I'm sure we can do one another one of these. Oh yeah, for sure. Do like four or five iterations of the of the simulation, and then it's like all right at twenty-three, you know, I did five I did five uh I did five rounds of this. This guy was available. If a guy is there, three out of the five or four out of the you know four out of whatever benchmark you want to set, then you feel good making the pick. Uh and it's like it's not as random. Okay. I do like that. Yeah. Maybe uh listen, I'm gonna be doing a couple more mock drafts and I this is um this will be a good formative experience for me watching you react to each of my picks. So I'm very excited. I've got uh I would say maybe one surprise coming up uh and one player I really want to talk to you about. So we're gonna take our first break. We're gonna come back, we're gonna talk Jalen Hurts, we're gonna be joined by Jeremy Fowler, and then we'll get back to the mock draft. So uh let me know in the chat what you think of the Proctor versus Sadiq debate, and we will be back in a few minutes . If you love the NFL Draft, then this is your edge. The Die Hard NFL Draft Guide is built and based off of thousands of hours of film study being boots on the ground, shrine bowl, senior bowl, combine, talking to scouts, talking to coaches, really getting a feel for where these players are best gonna fit and project in the NFL. We're talking hundreds of players in this class. There is no comparison. This is the best draft guide for Eagles fans. You get player comps, you get all the data , and you get Fran's insight. And here's the bottom line: there is nobody in the entire world who is better suited to be an NFL draft expert and an Eagles expert than my good friend Fran Duff. Alright so what are you gonna find in the guide? Well you're gonna find player cops, you're gonna find strengths, weaknesses, physical tools, analytics, highlights, analysis from all across the space, everything you need to try and determine who are the best players for your team. 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Yeah, I mean to me, um first off, you know, great reporting, uh, you know, and and being able to get st stu ff not not on the record, but you know, get the get these quotes down, get the get the sourcing down um on things that a lot of us have heard, certainly, you know, behind the scenes. And I think that you know, I was listening to Chris Long uh on his podcast on the Greenlight Podcast uh today, and I think he summed it up well. Where after reading that piece, you don't feel differently about Jalen Hurts than you did and the Eagles offense and the Eagles organization, than you did beforehand, personally, for me, right? Because this is all stuff that we've kind of known about. But again, it was, it was I think important to like get stuff like on paper and like kind of have have it out there for for everything for everybody. Um it uh we because we know that there are people in the building that that feel this way uh and but it's it's as we as we have talked about to me like there are multiple things that can be true right you could say like yeah like Jalen needs to be more open to you know the to certain aspects of offensive football and being willing to adapt and be willing to change and I also think it's incumbent upon coaches to get him to that point, right? Like to to work in that like that kind of like symbiotic relationship to say like yeah, like this is better for the entire operation. This is better for you if we can continue to kind of massage this uh into the game or into the game plan. So, you know, I'm of two minds with it. Um to me, it didn't move the needle in terms of like how I view how I view the offense because that's this is kind of how I've always viewed the entire dynamic. I I and I think you you and Les kind of hit on that as well yesterday. Yeah. And we'll we'll make this the the big takeaway presented by Xfinity. Um the other I would say that my my big takeaway here, you know, especially watching kind of the reaction play out is the the kind of the what's next that we we we touched on a little bit with Les. And you know, in the conversation we have with Jeremy that you guys will watch in a minute here, I do think that it it it he he said something that aligns with something that I believe as well, which is that I think that we are going to see a slightly different version of Jalen Hurts next year. Um, you know, maybe maybe not totally receptive to every change at the coaching staff pushes. I don't think he'll ever be that person. But I think the the crossroads, as they put it, that Jalen finds himself in, I think he has to be more receptive to change, more open. And honestly, different in how he's been in the locker room. I think that that process was already starting toward the end of last year. Honestly in both facets. You know, obviously I wrote a story uh about how some players in the Eagles locker room felt that Jalen was more open and more, you know, less had less of the force field around him that he had had earlier in his career. And I think, you know, the under center stuff, the motion stuff, like the Eagles did more of that stuff toward the end of last season. So, you know, I think that both of those things, as far as looking at next year go , I think that you will see a different version of Jalen . Um, how successful they are is going to be the bottom line there, you know, and I think um that is a bigger question. It's harder to project. But I do think at least behind the scenes, a lot of the stuff that you know was reported in the story is reflective of how it has been. Um but I do think that you know I actually would say I would expect more change in those areas moving forward. But I I think the other big thing and and it's something we've talked about on the show, you know, over the course of this season, was that you know, this is not unique to Jalen Hurts and to the Philadelphia Eagles offense, right? Like this is this is these are the same things you heard with ironically, uh Matt LaFleur and Aaron Rodgers. This is the same thing you hear with Zach Taylor and Joe Burrow. The you we've heard this with lots of quarterbacks, successful quarterbacks over the years where you know the coach wants to do one, you know, wants to live one way and the quarterback does not want to live this way be you know for one factor or another, whether it's comfort, whether it's preference, whatever it is. Um but like I said, it kind of takes two to tango, right? Coaches have to be able to to reach and connect with those players and coach and players have to also be coachable. Right. And so um trying to find that that common ground, trying to find that that middle of the Venn diagram, I think is really what if you are Jeffrey Lurry and Howie Roseman, if you're an Eagles fan, you're hoping that that's where this addition of Sean Manion and some of the coaching turnover, they are able to reach Jalen Hurts and say, like, hey, like, this is why this is beneficial. I know it's it's foreign. I know it's different. I know it's unique. I know you've had a lot of success and won Super Bowl MVPs and nearly won a second one back in 2022. We know this, but we need to evolve. We need to adapt because teams have evolved and adapted to us and have, you know, if they have taken certain things away, this offensive line is not what it once was. This run game was not what it was two years ago. So, you know, we need to be able to counterbalance that in other ways. And if you're not running the football the uh as a as a quarterback, we need to be able to do these other things, right? We we can't it can't just be point and shoot football from the gun over and over and over and over again. Like that that that's not that's not the way offenses win in 2026. And so uh I do think that it'll be big for you know for this marriage to work, they both sides and kind of meet in the middle. I think you just put that so perfectly because I've heard both sides of this argument now, which is like every quarterback has preferences, you know, Joe Burrow with the Bengals. The runy their offense a certain way. They run their offense at a gun. They run a lot of empty and a lot of 11 personnel because Joe Burrow likes those things. He that those are his preferences. And honestly, in Cincinnati, you could have a conversation about the effects that that's had on his health and just the the flexibility of that offense. Um, so that is not an uncommon thing, but with Jalen , like the offense became so limited last year that they have to find ways to be more flexib le and more multiple. You know, it's something that Nick Siriani talked a lot about early in his career is running what's best for the players, right? You can only do that if your quarterback is receptive to some of those things. So um the truth lies somewhere in the middle, obviously and uh I think you just lay that lay that out very nicely so uh go ahead good yeah I was gonna say the the it kind of reminds me what is just because we're in the middle of draft season um you know I know that there are coaches in the NFL and have been coaches in the NFL where they are very particular about the types of players, and this is general managers too. So I should say like coaches and general managers, decision makers in the league, where it's, hey, you know what? We want a certain kind of guy in our on our team, right? Like off the field, he has got to hit the all these. We don't we're not gonna, we're not gonna bend in any way when it comes to questions about off-field and work ethic. And if there's any question whatsoever, nope, off the board. Like it will it will not fit. But also are going to be hyper strict when it comes to physical characteristics. Well, at the end of the day, if you are not going to bend in this way or this way, you are going to have a draft board that is about this big. And so if that's like you you can't operate that way. You're not you're not gonna be able to get the proper value on these players. And so uh again, you know, getting back to like Jalen Hurts, getting back to offensive coaching staff, you have got to be pliable. You've got to be adaptable. You've got to evolve. And so being able to kind of have that meeting in the middle, I think is going to be imperative here for this team. Absolutely. All right, that's gonna do it for the uh big takeaway presented by our friends at Xfinity. Uh so let's uh let's go to the conversation with Jeremy Fowler. I appreciated him taking out some time to talk about the story. I saw some people asking about Tim McMahon is Tim's on vacation, guys. So we're we love Tim here. We are big fans of Tim, but we were very grateful to get Jeremy Fowler uh for a few minutes here. So yeah, we uh we'll hear from him next. And we are back on the PHOY Eagles podcast. I'm very excited to be joined by ESPN's Jeremy Fowler. Uh, you uh you and uh uh Tim McManus had a good story on Jalen Hurts uh posted on ESPN.com yesterday, and I wanted to ask you a few questions about it. Uh first and foremost, you know, reading through the story, you know, the sense that I got is that a lot of the people you spoke with felt like Hertz's responsibility for the way the Eagles offense looked maybe wasn't fully recognized publicly. I I and I wanted to know if you think that's is is that a fair fair thing to say based off the conversations you had? I think it's probably fair, just drawing from the impetus of the story, which was during the season, obviously the passing game was struggling once again and the AJ Brown dynamic was what it was. And you know, we saw it every week on the sideline when he was frustrated. So we sought out to just figure out what was ailing the Eagles offense. And we were pretty open-minded at that point. And just the more people we talked to, the more Jalen came up uh in that equation with uh just for one, struggling to carry the load, you know, with an offense that uh was limited in the running game all of a sudden, you know, last year they were gasing everybody, and this year the offensive line wasn't good. The holes weren't really there for Saquon Barkley as often. You know, the twenty to forty yard runs that he was breaking off every week weren't there. Uh you know, AJ Brown kind of looked a half step slow . Now, maybe part of that was because of what he was dealing with uh and his frustration with the setup there, but uh, you know, he didn't he probably didn't look like the same player in some respects. So, you know, he had an offense that it wasn't as good. They needed Jalen to carry the load and be a a quarterback who can help the team win because of his play, not with support around him. And you know, that that was a tricky proposition. So he did struggle at times your teams were taking away his dual threat ability a little bit, you know, dropping back into his own coverage and and uh making him beat them with his arm. Which he at times his career has done. But yeah uh just given the last two years it's been a bit of a struggle. And so you combine that with some of the frustrations internally, with his rigidity with the offense as far as what he wants to run, uh, whether that's with play calls or preferences of being under center or in the shotgun, things like that. You know, just it was a combination of those factors. So it there's plenty of blame to go around. It's certainly not all on him by any stretch, but uh he was he was prevalent enough in the answers to the questions we were asking that he became the story. Yeahah., ye And I do think obviously some of the the more explosive details in the story are what gets circulated, but I wanted to make sure I mentioned earlier that I felt like the reporting that you and Tim did was very balanced. So I didn't come away from the story thinking like, you know, there's only one person to blame here. So uh I appreciated that reporting there. Um you mentioned the rigidity and you know, somebody who has heard a lot from Jalen, I've heard him say before it's gonna look the way J Jalen Hurts wants it to look, right? And yeah, I I've I'm sure you've heard like the pushback that most great quarterbacks have preferences. And I'm curious from the conversations that you've had, how how do you think Hurts's preferences compared to other quarterbacks across the league? Do you think that they are maybe more extreme than others? Well, that's probably a sliding scale depending on freedom certain quarterbacks have and how good quarterbacks are to be honest. You know, we know Aaron Rodgers is changing plays and doing what he wants sometimes, right? I think that's pretty obvious at this stage. Uh but in his prime he could get away with that. He's an MVP uh elite player. You know, so the guys that can really carry a team, it's a short list. And you know, those guys are good enough where where they can get away with some of that to varying degrees, you know. Uh where you know, Jalen Hurts has obvious strengths and he's had immense success, but as a pocket passer , not at that level where he can get away with some of that stuff. So if you're not good enough and you're trying to do those things, I think then it becomes a problem. So you know you're only if if you're the team's best option by far , uh and and you're the gonna be the reason why they win, then they can deal with uh some of that rigidity that that you mentioned. So uh I think the the play it's something the the play calls are are little bit tricky 'cause sometimes uh you know, according to one source we spoke to that he would have uh maybe a different play from a hand signal with a receiver that the coaches didn't know about, didn't install. Uh the fact that you never knew what was coming out of the huddle , uh I think that was pretty rare. That maybe happens to some quarterbacks. And I mentioned Aaron Rodgers in that equation where you've heard some of those stories. Uh, but I think for the most part, you know, coaches and and uh quarterbacks are in sync and and on the same page with that stuff. So I don't know if it's ultra rare, but I do think uh the the Eagles some people in the building feel it was excessive. Yeah, yeah, and there have been examples over the past few years of Jalen making checks at the line of scrimmage in key moments of games that have come back to bite the Eagles. You know, the one against the Seattle Seahawks a few seasons ago stands out for sure there. Um you meant in the story, it was mentioned that uh Jalen Hurts and A.J. Brown, the dynamic between the two of them. I thought the the the you're you're you're noting that they oftentimes internalize some of the issues that they have. I thought that was very uh interesting and I I think an interest a good window into the dynamic between the two of them. How would you describe uh what you learned about what's gone what's transpired between Hertz and Brown over the last few years? Yeah, that that was kind of a moving target in trying to figure out where that dynamic stood because you know, we talked to several sources that said they didn't sort of see any sort of like uh watershed moment where you knew the relationship was a problem, really. Uh, but there was just probably a little bit of an iciness there. Uh you, know , some of that is by nature with with Jalen Hurts, according to the people we spoke to, that uh it 's more just a personality trait where he's got this steely resolve and whether he's earning a two hundred fifty million dollar contract or winning a Super Bowl, he's gonna be the same guy. Like his face isn't gonna change, you know, he's probably not gonna smile a whole lot. And uh so that can yeah that I'm sure that's helped him in a ton of ways become successful, but it also can be a difficult dynamic in a locker room, especially the quarterback position, uh, where , you know, AJ was more open with his emotions, even if sometimes it seemed very passive aggressive and people were trying to figure out what it was. I we felt like some people in the building shot AJ Brown some bail because they feel like because of the shortcomings of Jalen and some of the problems there that uh maybe he was justified in some ways, you know. And so you I I I'm not in the locker room every day, so I can't say if it was some sort of locker room torn between two guys. I don't know that for sure, but uh that that seemed to be the dynamic that we gleaned from it. And with uh AJ and Jalen, you know, it sounds like from from Jalen's account, but they had a good talk after the year and we're in a better spot coming out of the season. So uh if they have to coexist and and he doesn't get traded, then that would be a good sign, I think. But at the same time it feels a little untenable based on some of the frustrations that AJ has. I don't know how much those are going to dissipate just because they have a new coordinator there, you know, so some of the problems would be pre-existing. But uh it it it sounds like as as one source told me that the airing of grievances in a healthy way didn't happen as often as it should. You know, like they they didn't maybe have those sit-down talks where they could have got on the same page, and maybe because of the personality dynamics, that was hard to do. Gotcha. Gchaot. And then uh in conclusion here, you know, like let's let's talk outcomes. Obviously, you know, Jalen Hurts, there's a window here for him to sign a contract contract extension, but uh, you know, I wouldn't expect it. Jeffrey Laurie spoke earlier this week, didn't make it sound like anything's imminent. And Jeff McLean, the inquiry's Jeff McLean reported that you know the those in the building are not expecting Jalen Hurts to sign an extension. I guess where do you think the Eagles and Jalen Hurts go from here? You know, you you titled the story, you know, the about the her the crossroads that heritage find themselves at. I guess how would you describe the terrain that lies ahead of them? Yeah, and we even wrestled with some of those phrasings, right? Like at a crossroad we felt was appropriate, but then also considering the success he's had, it seems all silly to say he's in a make it or break it year, you know, but I I I do know there are some people around the league outside of Eagles, I would say more so the teams, have openly wondered will the Eagles draft a quarterback somewh ere. Uh now it doesn't seem like they're locked in on doing that. You know, I I don't have any proof of that right now, but uh you know, if they took one day two or early day three wouldn't shock me either. Now they have Tamara Key, who they seem to like, certainly, who's got one more year left on his deal. Uh with Jalen, they don't have to do anything. He's clearly the starter. There's no pressure there . Uh the early returns on his adaptability with Sean Mandion are good, which we highlight in the story too, which is a positive spinning it forward that it seems like he's open to the changes. Uh now th the change in coordinator is so stark compared to where they were and what they were doing that there's really no cho ice. Uh but this is kind of what has to happen and and to get modernized with this offense uh and compared to what's going on around the league with you know obviously the under center work and two three tight ends and the the motions and shifts and the school that many comes from. Uh it it should be a positive, you know. So seems like Dale's gonna jump head first into that. And so he's the guy in twenty-six. Certainly with his stature, what he's done in the league, it wouldn't be the guy beyond then, you know, but uh it it seems like we'll we'll see from their roster building where they really stand and you know, do they make a move at quarterback in the draft? That's at least a backburner item that I'm curious about whether they do or not. Yeah. I mean there's always an urgency with this building as you probably know. So uh yeah and I appreciate your time time Jeremy. Uh you know appreciate the insight. Again, uh you and Tim really had a a lot of very solid and balanced reporting in there and I I commend you guys for it. So thank you very much. Yeah, yeah. All right. That's gonna do it for us here. And uh stay stay with us on the other side of the break for the PHLI Eagles podcast . At Bet365, they understand that the only thing better than winning bet s with your money is winning bets with theirs. 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I feel like it was pretty similar to the story that was written. Yeah, uh you know, obviously uh thanks to Jeremy for joining the show. Um great job by you uh getting that done but right before the show started, you and Lindsay. Um yeah no it's uh I think it was you know good again kind of covered uh covered all the bases from the the piece that we read yesterday. Yeah, yeah. You know I and this isn't a a reflection of Jeremy I 've I've heard this myself uh from people in the building. So I know that uh this is a sentiment shared, but my the last thing I'll say about the Jalen thing is I I just need to get this off my chest. I feel like there is a little bit of glossing over of like that he plays unbelievable in Super Bowls. You know, I think that there's like, uh, you know, like it's just he he plays really well every once in a while, but they they really struggled before that. It's like, I don't know. I think that those should be weighted a little bit more heavily. That's the last thing I've say about it . Yeah, I mean you know the there's something to be said for uh shining when the lights are brightest. Uh yeah like that's like part of being like a quarterback. You have to play well in the big game. So anyway, I digress. All right. We only we've got a lot of uh picks to get through here. So um we will buzz through a couple of these. I'll be honest with you. I cheated a little bit for this one because I like the player. I like the fit , I like, I like I just really wanted this to happen. Maybe this would need to be a trade-up in real life. But in my scenarios here, Chris Bell was there and I drafted Chris Bell at number 54 overall. I don't think that that's crazy. Okay. I was worried that he's a receiver coming off a torn ACL with only one year of elite production. Like I don't think that's that's crazy that he would be there. It's the Justin Simmons scenario, right? Where it's a player that if you watch him, you're like, this guy is a very exciting prospect, has a real high upside, but maybe there is the possibility that he will slide in the draft because he's not a ready-made day one plug him in in training camp and feel great about it. So because of the injury. But if you just look at the player and the profile, if you're looking for a long-term AJ Brown replacement, I don't know how many guys I would put above Chris Bell from my personal standpoint. I'm curious what you think about him, but I just love the fit. I love the few the upside and, I don't mind having to wait for that. Uh even if you are the Eagles and there is an urgency for next season. Yeah, when you look at Chris Bell, uh, I would say from an archetype standpoint, um, you know, you think back to the way that AJ Brown was used in Tennessee, okay, with the with the Titans early in his career, where it was a lot of quick throws, quick slants, shallow crosses, and just let him work. That's really where that's hit that's his bread and butter. That's where a lot of his production came this past year with Louisville. Now, word of caution would be that a lot of those guys that you know have uh had that profile in recent years, they they don't always hit. Everybody's like, oh, like Debo Samuel, like oh, he's gonna be Debo Samuel. There aren't a lot of Debo Samuels that come into the NFL and kind of hit. Now, this is an offense that is cut from that cloth, right? And so you would say, okay, well, this would make some sense here, but um they it's not a slam dunk in terms of uh, you know, the the ultimate uh projection. But this is a guy that if he had if he had not torn his ACL is off the board by this point, and the only reason he is available is because of the ACL. Now, uh, as you just mentioned in the first block of the show, guys that have to redshirt their first year, they the hit rate there, small sample, but the hit rate there uh is not always great. It's not it's not it's not a super high hit rate. And so um when guys tear their ACL this late in the process, you typically don't see them play in an NFL game until the earliest, like late October. Uh, you know, if not if l if not later than that. And so um I think that you you will certainly have to wait. Patience will be required there. But uh Chris Bell's a he's a fun player. Yeah. It it sort of reminds me of something we've talked about with tight ends where it's like if you look at the top guys, they they oftentimes kind of have that common denominator of like they're big and they're fast. And obviously wide receivers you, can get them in different different flavors, and uh they don't all have to fit that bill. But if you're looking for like an AJ Brown replacement, I do think you know the height, weight, speed factor there is really important. Uh, some other players that I considered here, Gabe Akis, who you predicted would be one of my guys, uh Keelan Rutledge, uh the offensive lineman from Georgia Tech, Justin Jolie, it's probably a little early for him. Uh, and then Jeremy Bernard, who I noticed uh you are probably lower on than the consensus for him. Yep. Yeah, I would say I'm lower on the consensus on Bernard. Uh, I would definitely take Chris Bell ahead of him. Um uh Joe Lee. I think I might have a higher grade, but I'm okay with waiting at tight end. I'm okay with waiting at t ight end because of the the just the nature of this class. Um so I don't think I I want to do what they did with Makuba last year and kind of like uh jump the you know jump the the run there and get out ahead of it. I I think that you can you can afford to be patient with this class just because you have so many players kind of bunched together. Um and you know obviously the Eagles are not going to view it that way uh in terms of like how but chances are if I've got twelve guys jump together. They probably have a list of at least like five or six. And so, you know, I don't think they need to jump, you know, uh at one of those guys. Okay. Um I still d like I know that you said like Gay Back is one of your guys. I still don't know what what an EJ guy looks like, but we we we as we've as we've talked about. 'Cause it's the same inconsistencies across the board. Well, I guess there's two different types of players that I really love. The first And they are polar opposites of each other. Yeah, that is that that's fair. That is totally fair. I love highweight speed guys, guys that just look like superheroes out there. And I like those guys at every position. Yeah, so that' fsair. But then if you're not that guy, I want to see some nasty. I want to see some dirty work. I want to see some like fearlessness. You know, so I I I don't know. If you're in between, then I'm you're not giving me anything. You know so you you like the Johnny tryhards and you like the guys that are all traits. So yeah, okay, great. It's if you fall between those guys that I'm I'm out on you. So no, I I at receiver I don't think I like the Johnny tryhards, um, although I do like a Darius Cooper. And that's's not he got he's got some traits. He's got some length, some athleticism. Um but yeah, I I I just I like those guys who kind of are ex exceptional at least at least one of those categories. So that is why I can say that, you know, Caden Proctor is one of my guys and Gay Back is because yeah, there is uh definitely a difference between those guys. Do you think um uh uh really quick I I am surprised I think Justin Jolie's a guy you are much higher on than cons ensus as well. Because he's somebody, I will I was you know, give a little tease here. He is someone who comes up again in my in my mock draft in a different round. Yeah, I I think that the uh look at the at the end of the day, the reason why is I think that he can be an impactful receiver. Uh I do think that he is probably more of like a um, you know, like a one A as opposed to a true one. Like I think you wanna pl platoon him with you know, and my comparison with him is Johnu Sm ith, uh who has had seasons where he's been a very productive and impactful player uh for and a useful player for an NFL offense. And so when I look at Johnu Smith who was a fourth round pick out of a lower level of competition, uh, you know, Jolie has been more productive consistently at uh at better at better schools. Uh I think that Jolie is probably you're talking like this would be the high point, like late second round. I do think that he probably bleeds into like the third round, maybe even the fourth round, but uh I think that he does enough as a blocker to warrant being, you know, uh picked in this kind of area. Okay. Yeah, well he's gonna come up again. Um you guys are gonna have to stick stick with us through the break in. I got a great tease here. I've I've been waiting for this. I am going to upset Fran Duffy on the other side of this ad break . Now that the weather is warming up and you guys are starting to size up which home improvement projects you you have uh in store, it's time to make your homework smarter and not harder. And that's why the TrueMark Financial Home Equity Line of Credit can really be a benefit for you all. Uh you can tap into your home's equity to handle renovations, upgrades, or whatever's next on your list. Uh Tree Mark Financial HELOC Select gives you the flexibility to borrow when you need it on your timeline. 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But you're not done. All from the 2025 Kelly Blue Book Best Value Brand . Based on 2025 Consumer Choice Awards from Kelly Blue Book, visit KPP.com for more information . At Strayer University, we help students like you go from is it possible to anything is possible by offering access to up to 10 no-cost genetic co urses. So you can reach your goals affordably and fast. Visit Strayer.edu to learn more. No cost gen ed is provided by Strayer University Affiliate Sophia. Eligibility Rules Apply. Connect with us for details. Strayer University is certified to operate in Virginia by Chev and has many campuses including at 2121 15th Street North in Arlington, Virginia. We are back on the PHOY Eagle Show. Do you well I texted EJ okay I texted EJ just now during the break and I said I I have a pest question for when we get out of it is it for in here or is it all in the show. I mean, come on. Um so this was definitely the case last year, and it looks like all signs are pointing to it once again being a bad tick season uh in the area. Are are you do you guys find that uh with the dogs? Yes, uh we do. It's very annoying. They've got short hair, so you'd think it's not like impossible to find them. Yes. But it is a challenge always to like go through and like you know, have to like look everywhere for ticks. Correct. And I don't know if you've ever done this, but uh I like we we will well I'm not gonna take any credit for this. My wife will like put the tick in a Ziploc bag and mail it somewhere, I do not know where, uh, to check for Lyme disease for the sake of our dog. So she is an elite dog mom. Shout out to Julia. Um I usually if I find them will just flush them down the toilet. Um yeah, it was a it was a point last year uh where literally every walk, like every time we came back inside , I would look for the check the dog for a tick and she had uh she had at least one. Uh now why is it gonna be a bad tick season when it was like a pretty cold winter? Usually it's a mild No, it's uh that's what it actually is. Is that when it is the cold w inter, apparently that's when uh that's what makes it better. 'Cause last year remember we didn't have as much snow last year, but it was a very cold winter. Um and apparently that's I don't d do I know why? No, but apparently that's what uh that's what brings it on um but it's our that's already started here in the Duffy House. That's bad news. You're gonna need to call Evans Pest control to get rid of those ticks. All right. I'm gonna upset you. Um this is the the pick that I I was dreading making uh because this is where the evisceration is going to begin. So with the 68th pick in the NFL draft, the Eagles have to make a decision at tight end. And they're going to go with Eli Stowers over your boy, Justin Joly . Um well I'm I'm just gonna take that as a aside just because you guys graduated high school at the same time. He's an old, yes, maybe. Former quarterback, right? So he can't the background of the last hours. Um he was a quarterback at Tex San M for coming out of high school as a four-star kid and went to Texan M as a quarterback, played there uh for two seasons before transferring to new mexico state uh and that's when he moved to tight end so it was his third year moving to tight end he's only been playing tight end now for three seasons uh caught passes there and learned uh how to play tight end catching passes from Diego Pavia at New Mexico State. Then he followed Pavia and a couple of members of the coaching staff to Vanderbilt going into the 2024 season and has been a productive pass catcher over the last two years. He had 62 catches for just under 800 yards, a whopping four touchdowns this past year as a 25-year-old, uh, or as a 24-year-old, I should say. And then uh, yeah, he had five touchdowns the year before. He's six foot three and a half. He's 2 39 pounds. So he's he is very undersized for the tight end spot. I say this with all due respect. He is a terrible blocker. Like he is, he's the worst blocker of the tight ends in this class. Um and this isn't like oh yeah, like yeah he's a he's a bad blocker in the SEC against against college defenders. I don't know how he's gonna be able to hold up in the NFL. Like I just I just don't think he's gonna be able to block in the league. And so that that is why I am low. He is not in my top 10 tight ends uh in this class because I think that he is gonna be so role specific. Um I don't think that he could even check the box with him. If the best best case scenario he, gets to the point where you can at least check the box, which again, like he did not do the last two years. Um maybe he's at he's Evan Ingram, right? Yeah, who Evan Ingram went in the first round, but every team that has had Evan Ingram was like, yeah, like he probably wasn't worth the investment we made, whether it was the Jaguars giving him the money that he got in the open country on the uh in the open market, um, you know, and obviously Denver, like he was fine this past year. Um, he has moments, but just not a not not a highly impact consistently impactful player. Yeah. So he is your tight end 12. I knew that you were not high on him. Obviously, the consensus is much higher on him for the reasons that you you laid out. He is you know an intriguing prospect because of the athleticism, the ability as a pass catcher. And that's why I leaned ever so slightly toward Eli Stars because especially like you mentioned Justin Jolie, like has some potential to be a combo guy, but it's not like he is like, you know, an ideal perfect combo guy. If I'm getting a tight end that I'm expecting to be your tight end two behind Dallas Goddard, you're hoping to develop him into your difference-making tight end, a number one down the road. I just leaned Eli Stowers for the upside play a little bit more. Um, and maybe honestly, like even this is like me being a little bit reflective of the draft that I put together. Maybe you you're drafting an Eli Stowers and saying we can get a dirty work guy later in the draft, you know, somebody that can be a compliment to him. But again, I just especially because he was there in the mock draft exercise I did. Um, and I know that he is projected to go higher uh elsewhere. I felt like it would value play in the third round. Um and yeah, I was I knew this one would get you fired up . Yeah, I just to me like I struggle with guys that uh you know where it's oh developmental. Like he's got areas he's got to improve. Oh, and he's 24. Like, you know what I mean? Like, oh, that that's where I I really cause uh because also like again, he's only been playing for three years. So uh he still needs to get better as a route runner. Like he still has like areas where of his game where he needs refinement and he needs to get bigger and he needs to get stronger. Like I I just that's a that's a tough bet to make for me. Do you do at least agree that he like fits the the description that we've laid out where it's like tight ends that are you know, the the the top tier of NFL tight ends at least like look similar to him. I know he's a little smaller, but in terms of like uh maybe not height, weight, speed, but the athleticism paired with you know relative tight end size, do you feel like he at least fits that mold in a way that you could you could buy you could buy the upside. Uh so really quickly, I'm just gonna look at the guys that have been that really kind of hit in terms of like, oh, they became starters or they even like one B players. All right. So I've got a list of uh 60 set 61 names here that I would say like became like ones or you know good twos. Okay. I've got two players, two players that came in under two hundred forty pounds. Gerald Everett Jalen Samuels, so that's even a reach there. Chigacun. Your boy. So this is why, because it's Chigak onkwo. This is Chigakonquo. Uh but honestly, even Chig is a better block. Chickakonquo is a better blocker, a more useful blocker than uh than Eli Stowers. So this all makes sense now. Yeah, I mean the Chigokonquo part of my um my my like my guys is is definitely is a weird one. It's definitely a weird one. Um all right, before we get to the rest of the picks, um I want to go through some super chats here. So uh we will start with Joe Rockhead. Fran, when is your mock draft going up? That is a great question. Because I I mean listen, my mock draft's one thing, but yours is gonna be like the actual truth. Yeah, I think um let's count on early next week uh for my next mock draft. So it'll be full one round. Maybe I get to the two rounds, but early next week. Okay. Uh really quick Rob Milner as well. Appreciate the super chat. Thoughts on uh tight end Eli Rarit and filling as filling in need as a great inline guy that is also athletic as a receiver, could he have the highest ceiling of the tight end class? You know, I don't think he's got the highest ceiling. Um, but I did I studied him recently within the last couple of weeks and, you know, I compared him to Luke Musgrave, who was a second round pick coming out of Oregon State by the uh uh by the Packers. Now, I thought that that was a little bit rich for me. I had some questions about him as a blocker. I have questions about Raredon as a blocker. I do think that he's got straight line speed, big play potential. Uh he's a better blocker than Stowers is, not quite the athlete that Stowers is. So similar kinds of questions. Um, but I think Raridon is a safer bet uh in terms of being able to stick in the league as a backup. All right. We are going to get to the rest of your super chats and the rest of my picks on the other side of Bovertime . All right, a double super chat from Joe Rockhead. Another question. Cuz and Baldi love Riley Nolakowski. Noah Noah there's a W instead of an L there. No . Okay. Gotcha. Uh Fran, you don't seem as high on him. Is he worth the pick at three is if he's there, of course. Yeah, I think that when you're looking at Noahkowski, he is your classic kind of like dirty work fullback type. So um, you know, the he's the polar opposite of Eli Stowers, uh, which means he's also one of E J's guys. Um, I think when you're looking at it, he's a like do-it-all dirty work blocker, but he's not big enough to be like an inline guy, not a dynamic athlete. Um in this class, I don't know that it's a given that he definitely gets drafted just because of the nature of this class. So if you told me that a team took him in the fifth round, I would believe it. If you told me he went undrafted, I would believe it. Um but I do like the player, I like the archetype of player, but it it is gonna be scheme and team specific there. Yeah. Um, last one from CDP is venting to ESPN reporters the best way to reach Jalen Hurts. Have the Eagles try talking to him, love an EJ and Francho. Um, it's an it's an excellent question. Um, I think you could look at it one of two ways. Uh the first way is I'm sure that they have had conversations with him behind the scenes, and maybe they do not feel like there's enough progress being shown. And that is an avenue for maybe some of the people who talked on this story uh to to be that's how they find themselves talking to Jeremy Fowler and Tim McManus. I would also like to point out, like being an Eagle source doesn't necessarily always mean that you work currently for the Eagles. Um, I don't want to go too deep into that, but I think like, you know, that speaks for itself. You know, maybe the people who talk spoke for this story who are not trying to get through to Jalen Hurts, you know, maybe that was not uh their objective. So I think it could probably be a mixture of the two. Uh but it's a great question. And also does it if just because the the those individuals don't necessarily work for the Eagles anymore. Doesn't mean that what they're saying isn't true. Right. Like again, these are things that we've heard across multiple iterations of this coaching staff. Yep. That's a very good point. Yeah, this isn't something that just popped up this year. All right. We're going to go through some of these picks. We can go a little bit quicker. Um this is a very classic uh PHO Eagles show where it's a we're an hour in and we've gone through three picks. Um so number 98 overall, I had the Eagles taking Jalen Kilgore, the safety from South Carolina. How do we feel about that one? How do we feel about him as a potential starter starting starting competition and pair with Drew McCuba? So here's the thing with Kilgore is that he has been kind of like a big nickel for South Carolina for most of his career. Uh, I do think that he can perform that role in the NFL. I think a lot of people coming into the season, he was in a lot of mock drafts coming into the year is like, oh, he's gonna take over for immunwari and and you know hit the ground running he's not that level of physical talent um now for the eagles obviously he would not play the slot i think that he's got some tight end matchup ability uh but I I think this would be a little rich for me personally. Okay here, but I he's a he's a good kid. He's got some day he's got decent size. I like the versatility. Uh I would feel better about him overall on day three. Okay. And you probably it doesn't sound like you love the fit either. Okay. I will keep that in mind. When we watch safeties, maybe that name swaps out if if I, you know, stick with the safety there. Uh number one fourteen overall. I have a new NFL draft crush, Fran. I have no idea where you're going here because it could be like the most athletic player in the draft or the least athletic player in the draft. I think he's I think he's pretty athletic. His uh his RAS score is pretty high. And I mean, but when you watch him, man, this guy is awesome. So I'm gonna tell you he's a guard. He's an offensive lineman. Okay. I think you were higher on him than the consensus. Okay. Does anybody jump out? You do you have any guesses before I tell you? Uh is it Keelan Rutledge? It is not. Okay. High RAS score at Gard. Chase Bisantis? No. I don't think I liked him as much. Okay. Who do you got? Jalen Farmer. Okay. Yeah, I like Jalen Farmer. Um He's a fun player to watch. He's he moves well. He's he he's a big athletic interior offensive lineman out of Kentucky. Um correct me if I'm wrong. Hold on. I think I have a former Eagle as his comp, actually. Oh, do you? Give me one second. I want to put it on. No, you do. Yeah. Okay. Is it is it chance warmack? It is Chance Warmack. Yeah. That's what I thought. Um, he is uh so he was uh a right guard for basically his entire career at Kentucky. Uh I did not study him before the senior bowl and I r I liked seeing him up close. I to me he's got really heavy hands, uh jarred guys on first contact, um, solid movement skills across the board. He's a well built kid. Like uh he' hes got's got things to clean up from a technique standpoint you know pad level hand usage things like that but he's got starting tools uh I think that the the lack of proven versatility uh that that is something that he will have to get past in terms of the overall value . So teams will kind of have to make that call uh as they go through the evaluation. But uh I like Jalen Farmer. He he is a fun player to watch. Yeah, that that's that I guess that really was what it boiled down to. He's fun to watch. Like every time they have him out in space pulling he. He looks looks the part as like you know as a nod to Bo who was on vacation. Uh a big guard, huh? I like it. Yeah, he's uh he fits that bill as a guy with good size and and good athleticism. He's got long arms, which I like. Um, so yeah, I I've I felt really good. Of all the picks that I made, I felt really good about Jalen Farmer in the fourth round. Like I I if I'm talking to future EJ, I think you're still gonna have Jalen Farmer going to the Eagles at some point in the draft. So um the only other player I I had um a few players that I also considered there, Drew Shelton, um, because he's more of a tackle prospect than an interior prospect. Maybe some people some people kind of like him at center. Oh interesting, interesting. Yeah, um and I had Febecchi Nwiwoo. Weewoo. We woo, right? Okay. And then Kamari Ramsey as well. Oh, if I hadn't gone safety. How do you feel about Kamari Ramsey as a safety fit uh compared to Kilgore there? Yeah, I I like Kamari R amsey. Um high character, like I a lot of people uh out at USC really rave about him. He's he began his career at UCLA and I will say like speaking with sources at both schools. Um both kind of right so I I think that universally it was like, yeah, like we we really liked uh this kid. Um they put a lot on him early on in his career. He followed so basically Deantan Lynn, who now uh is the defensive coordinator of Penn State, um, but wasn't UCLA for uh for Ramsey's first year, went to USC and Ramsey transferred and followed him there. And right away, like he represented USC at media days as a sophomore, as a transfer, right? Like so you right away. That tells you like to me, like that's a marker for yeah, this this guy's he's got everything on the straight and arrow from a like an on-field character standpoint. Um the tools are just okay. Uh I kinda I haven't graded as a backup. Um, but it wouldn't shock me if he became a starter down the line. I I think this area of the draft is right kind of like the sweet spot. He's young. He's been fairly productive. He hasn't had a ton of big plays on the ball, but it's kind of similar to Caleb Downs where his usage is not one that's going to put him in a lot of position to create big plays if that makes sense. But he's a very useful player. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. That captain note is something I could hear the Eagles really loving about Kamari Ramsey. Uh in the fourth round, I had Jay Sean Barham, um, for the edge rusher from Michigan. I I I will be honest with you, at this point in the draft, I am mostly relying on your draft guide. So I imagine that you will like a lot of these picks. And I I figured the Eagles are going to target edge. And you know, if I if it's not by the fourth round, I think it will be in the fourth round. So here's the deal with Jay Sean Barum. I do think that he would be there are there are elements of his game I think that would make some sense here for for the Eagles in this scheme. I I think when you look at he is a converted linebacker who actually did not move to the edge until September of this year, like a midstream, mid season, they moved him to uh to the outside uh outside linebacker, like defensive end position in that defense. Uh was previously a stand-up linebacker, stack linebacker for Maryland for two years, and then transferred to Michigan after their national title run. So with a new defense under Wick Martindale, played linebacker in 2024, then s started the year at linebacker before moving to the edge. He's really physical, obviously extremely raw as a rusher, um, but the toughness and physicality aspect is what you kind of you know are you gonna you're gonna kind of hang your hat on with him and that's an element that you know I think that that would be attractive for Eagles coaching staff the Eagles coaching staff um but again I don't know that you're counting on him to like be an impact player. Yeah. You're probably not getting one. Yeah. I think you're probably ready. He's a it's almost like a red shirt-ish type of situation there with Barum. Yeah, you probably feel good about that type of pick if you've made a trade to add to the top of that rotation. Right. I since we're talking edge here, again, I know I apologize for the fact that we are going way long here, but um the the fact that Keldrick Falk has like I see him mocked it around right. I in some of the exercises I did, he's around in the uh at twenty-three for the Eagles. I'm just assuming that's not realistic. I'm assuming that that's not gonna actually happen. You know, it happens every once in a while, right? Where I got because I'm not I I'm one person, I'm gonna see a guy differently than how other people see 'em. Um and that's okay. Uh I had Nolan Smith graded really high and uh he ended up falling to the Eagles in the you know in the late first round. Like uh those things happen. Uh I will say like the same thing was with was a question with Michael Williams a year ago at this time literally at this time it was like, oh like Michael Williams, you know, late first round pick, you know, could he be you know in play for the Eagles? Uh and he ends up going eleven. Right. Like those sometimes uh that happens. So uh we'll see with Calter Fox. We still got three weeks. Okay. Gotcha. All right. In the fifth round, I figure the Eagles are gonna target a quarterback at some point on day three. And this is a chance to get a guy who at least has a slim pathway towards starting in the NFL. So I went with Talon Green, the quarterback out of Arkansas. Drew Aller was a player I considered, but I chose Green because again, I think that there is a uh at least a scenario where he becomes a starter. Yeah, Talon Green is a really interesting projection because he's played a lot of football. Um there are clearly flaws with him as a passer, uh, in terms of like mechanically accuracy and ball placement. Uh, you know, he he's gonna have frustrating amounts of play. He's an elite athlete. We saw that at the combine, but you watch him on film for you know two drives and you say like oh man that this guy's got unique movement um uh you know a buddy of my uh emory hunt who does uh he I I love the work that Emory does uh over CBS uh compared him to Randall Cunningham so if you want Eagles, Eagles connection. Uh to me, very reminiscent of Colin Kaepernick. Like he's got a little bit of a mechanical release, but again, like elite, elite athleticism. And not a guy where it's like, oh yeah, like all he does is run. He's had really good moments as a passer. You know, was winning like bowl game MVPs as a true sophomore at Boise State before transferring to the SEC and playing for Bobby Petrino at Arkansas. Like there are there are certain certain things that would give you confidence that he can like get better and and div and evolve into a uh into a nice quarterback, but uh I do think that patience will likely be required there. Yeah, I I liked your player comp in the draft guide. I can't believe it I haven't been plugging the draft guide. I mean I'd used it for this entire exercise. Uh become you make sure to become a diehard so you get access to the draft guide so that you can put together a mock draft that's probably better than this one, you know, because you can read all of France Scouting reports. Um so uh it with the uh 17 8th pick, you know, and still in the fifth round here. I was looking for a Moro a Jomo replacement at some point in the draft, and I felt like this was a good time to pick one up. At least in theory. A player that you feel like has upside as a pass rush specialist, specializing interior lineman, defensive tackle there. Um, you know, I did wasn't looking for a nose tackle, I wasn't looking for versatility. I was like, give me a guy who is really just a high upside rusher. I tip it. By the way, real quickly, I still to this day have no idea how Moro Ojomo fell to the Eagles at where they took him in seven of that. Like the to me, like that profile falling to that late in the draft was silly. All right, go ahead. Sorry. So obviously, with that said, like whoever you you're drafting, probably that's like a super, super high upside scenario. Um, I went with Tyler Onyedim from Texas A N. Again, a player that at least has the upside to become uh a plus as a pass rusher, but it's viewed more of more as a developmental player than somebody who's gonna come in right away and give you quality snaps. Yeah, and I I think that he's kind of cut from that cloth in terms of like uh athletic interior disruptor. He's got position versatility much like uh Ojumo where he can win from multiple techniques uh he's kind of like uh got that similar kind of broad frame he's got explosiveness uh uh so that to me like there there are areas where he's got to get a little bit bigger a little bit a little bit stronger, I should say, holding up uh at the point of attack. Um, I thought the film was a little bit up and down, the rush plan, like it he began his career at Iowa State, transferred to Texas Cyanem last offseason. Um I I like Onyetum and I I was he was one of the guys that I liked uh just seeing up close at the combine as well. Uh just signing seeing him go through drills. He was one of my favorite players at the Shrine Bowl back in January. So I I think that Onyedham, not unrealistic that he would fall to this portion of the draft. I could see him going like early fourth round as well. Like if he was one of the first picks of day three, that would not shock me either. Okay. Gotcha. Um and then my last pick at one ninety-seven in the sixth round, I had Eric Rivers, the Georgia Tech wideout. I'll be honest with you. Five ten. He ran a four three five. I was like, you know, that seems like the type of you know Kles Watkins, John Hightower type pick that the Eagles have made in the past. And you know, just a guy in camp that maybe you hope he overtakes Hollywood Brown and um you know Elijah Moore. Maybe he can be part of a camp competition for that field stretching wide receiver role the Eagles are looking for. Yeah I I think when you're looking at Rivers um you know obviously extremely undersized, but the speed is real. Uh he can get up to top gear in a hurry. Uh he's twitchy in and out of brakes as well, so he's both quick and fast. Uh does need to get better as a route runner. Um, has been kind of up and down at the catch point, so that's why he would fall to this portion of the draft. But um, you know, I had him kind of graded as like a fringe roster player just because of that speed. Uh, but that speed is real. And I think that that's something that's going to get him drafted. Yeah. All right. So how did you feel about the uh the first stab at the mock draft? I know you hated the stowers pick, but overall the the the the group in general, how'd you feel about it? Um solid. Yeah, I thought you did a nice job. You know uh we talked through Proctor uh Proctor. Uh I think that what you you know your thought process for around two made sense. I hated the uh the the Stowers pick. Um day three I thought was solid. I thought I thought that there was I thought it was very sensible. All right. I appreciate that. I mean again it's it's a testament to the draft guide uh getting me a chance to watch film on these guys. Like I cannot harp on enough. Like I'd love that you can read the player profile and you can you have the all 22, the cut ups right there in the compilations for a lot of these guys. It's huge because otherwise I'd just be, you know, reading scouting reports for a lot of these guys and being able to lay eyes on them. I appreciate the work you did there. So appreciate it. Before we get out of here, I do have one nonsense question for you. I so really quickly I also want to make sure um we tease the event for next Wednesday night. Uh so next Wednesday if for anybody that's local to Philadelphia, uh there are some tickets remaining for the film breakdown event uh that we're doing next door to our studio at inline comedy. So uh if you want to come through uh have some food you can meet uh uh Connor Barwin he's gonna be uh you know doing a meet and greet with uh with participants uh beforehand uh and then I'm gonna get into film of Eagles free agents draft I mean we're close to close enough to draft now. I feel like a lot of people because I I honestly I open it up and say like all right, what do you guys want to talk about? What do you want to do who do you want to talk about? And we kind of go through the film that way. Um so yeah, uh it'll be fun. It'll be a fun night. Come through. Uh it'll if you if you're local to Philadelphia. And if you're not local to affiliate you've got some FOMO, uh I will be doing some like uh virtual events as well. Uh I don't know that we're gonna be doing like film through the virtual event, but in terms of like QA and things like that. So um you know we'll uh stay tuned for that as well. Yeah, it's gonna be an awesome, awesome event. I will be there. Um I'm sure we'll have a lot of members from the staff there. And yeah, I mean, like it's worth the price of admission just to talk draft guys with you. Absolutely. Um everything else, chair on the top. So I have a food question for you. I might get eviscerated by the chat on this one. But you know, I'm going to qualify it. Well let me let me qualify it with a question to you. Do you have you ever had a P B and J burger . I'm disappointed that you feel that you need to ask me that question. No, I've never had a PB and J burger. What are we talking about here? Okay, then then I need you to keep an open mind, be curious and not judgmental here. I had a PB and J Burger in Phoenix. It was uh after the Jeffrey Lloyd press conference. Um it was, you know, I had a tight turnaround for I had to get to the airport. And I was thinking like this sounds crazy, but you know, we're on the road feeling feeling risky, like whatever. Let's do it, right? Like, you know, let's take the chance. I ordered the PB and J burger. And I think it might be on the all-time, it shouldn't work, but it does list of food of pretty maybe everything. You like you hear the combination, doesn't sound right. Like who wants peanut butter and jelly on the cheeseburger? But peanut butter and jelly are like a perfect balancing. You know, it's a very neutral coming together of sweet and savory. And then you put that onto a cheeseburger where, you know, I I would say cheeseburgers are mostly savory, but you add some ketchup into the mix. If you have the jelly, you already have the sweetness. I can't explain to you why it works, but I'm telling you, and you know, listen, I'm big guy. I like that I like to eat. But I'm also like discerning in a lot of ways. And I'm gonna tell you guys that the PB and J burger, do not knock it unless you try it. If you're gonna reach out to me and tell me that this is nonsense, this is ridiculous, you need to tell me that you've tried it. If you haven't tried it, I don't want to hear from you. Can you just go through with me the the ingredients are like I need to know the type of cheese and is there anything else on this or is it just beef, cheese, peanut butter and jelly? It was a bacon cheeseburger with cheddar and then PB and J. So it was bacon and cheddar. Or peanut butter and jelly. And is that the order? Like was the jelly on top? Was the jelly underneath the bun or underneath the buttons? The jelly and the peanut butter are are on top of the bacon . I'm telling you . You have to try. I can't imagine the bow was with you because I feel like you would be too embarrassed to order this with bow. Yeah. You would have been furious.