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Hello everyone and welcome back to Folk Show Chat. It's Monday the twenty seventh of April. It's in the evening and it's show eight hundred and ninety two. Hello Joe. Hello, how you doing? I I forgot what day it is. I I I sent Joe a message at five to eight um ten minutes after the starting time. But it just so happened also that I got tied up with something with my dad and so we were all late and poor David Burns, our lovely guest today, was sitting here waiting, wondering what on earth was going on, no doubt. Hello, David. Hello, hello, Dad. Hello, Jen. I was um I was trailing through the um uh Steve's um previous notes of No, never never been on I mean I've I've been around for years and years and years, you know, but uh I've I've never uh actually put my head above the power put it as such. Well you're very welcome and it'll be very interesting to hear straight from the go as to what your phone history has been like and how you've got to where you are and what you've done and where you live and all those interesting things for people that have not been on before. So that'll be great. We'll come to that in just a second. Phones show chats chats dot UK is our website with two S's in the middle. So don't forget that. We've also got um Mi We Groups a th uh plenty and also Audio Podcasts Aplenty. So um you can find out all about those about those on um Pod ub UK or if you get lost it's all at TedSalmon.com as well. Um but phones howchhat.uk is our website, which is now shared with camera cre ations. But we'll come we'll come to that a bit later on. It it is the um the the the the trend these days to hand over at this stage straight to the guest and then let the guests run the show and take as little or as much time or uh as they want to with what they want to talk about, leading the agenda completely and if they run out of steam then we can bore you with our shit afterwards. So David, you're very welcome and the world is your oyster, so feel free to talk about whatever you like . Okay . Um I'd been um I've been in IT since ninety five, nineteen ninety five. So I've been around sort of IT and and various things for a long time. Um I've always had a an interest in well it started off with PDAs. I had a uh an interest in PDAs and I I used to flip between Palm P DAs and Windows PDAs all the time, you know, just trying to find the the perfect device as it was. But when smartphones came along um I went on to smartphones, obviously the symbia devices. I think I've had most of the symbia devices um and the the scient devices um I I like I liked all the um you know the Nokia products and some Sony Sony Ericsson products as well. Um but uh I I always preferred the Nokia products to the Sony Erickson pro uh products, you know. So uh but um yeah I I'm I'm now retired. I'm I'm on the the the later stages in in my sixties. Um but I've been uh I was a computer manager for thirty no forty forty odd years. Um uh at one point I I I was in uh responsible for around about two hundred and fifty desktops um fourteen sites scattered throughout the Midlands. Um so uh yeah, I I'm now sort of retired but can't let it go and uh most of my s sort of um enthusiasm goes on smartphones. What did you have to do in your job with your two hundred and odd computers were you completely uh the the man that was called for anything that went wrong with anything. Yeah, yeah. I I had a couple of guys work with me, a couple of young young guys, but I I was very much a hands on guy, you know. I d I didn't I didn't sit back and and um you know let someone else do the work as such. I I felt y y y you had to keep on top of things. If you didn't , you know, um you well you you soon sort of lose it as as it was uh especially with the way especially with the way IT was moving um you know in the nineties and the early two thousands it, was moving very very, fast . Um, so um yes, I I always like to be hands on, even down to um i uh e internet cla cabling, you know, Ethernet cabling. I used to do um we used to do our own Ethernet cabling um in the businesses. I used to write um systems for the company. I wrote uh uh a a sales support system. We we were uh we sold Volvo uh commercial vehicles and um I wrote uh a system to control all the sales um on that I mean data's my I still like data. I like anything to do with data. I'm I like to be organised. Um so um sort of starting off with the sort of D base side of things, I used to write whole systems to run um small um branches that we've got um in D base . Um so uh yeah I was um And so you And it was all s it was all self self taught as I say as well, you know. Um So presumably you had to oversee the introduction in all those years um of mobile coming on board and and people in in the workplace switching over from you know traditional computing if you like to apps and and d a different way of working. Yeah, yeah yeah. Um I mean I was responsible for the fan systems within the company as well. Um so uh we we we installed over the uh over the years we installed a number of different phone systems, you know, BT and um uh uh other other phone systems um and they slowly became more software software software based the phone systems themselves. So you went away from the sort of physical handset. So being software based, they went on to mobile phones, so you you had an app on your mobile phone and that was your desktop phone as well. Yeah, cool. Um so yeah. But it's even even landlines are gone to VoIP now, haven't they? Voice over Internet Protocol, yeah. So Yeah, yeah. That that really that really confused my poor old dad. I said, No, it's not a real phone anymore. It's my landline. No, it's not your landlord anymore. He he really can't understand how it works but um there it is. He gave up in the end. He said It's with many others though, Ted. Yeah. He said I don't want uh if I if I can't have a landline phone, I don't want a landline phone so, we haven't seen it there's so many forms, um quite a lot of government forms that still say your home phone number and j and your mobile phone number. You know, I mean it's it's all one of the same now obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But it's it's quite difficult for people to get their heads around. So um yeah, so so you you you oversaw that kind of shift in how things were going. It must have been a really interesting kind of time to have been right in the the transition period um uh between you know phones being pretty dumb um into being very very very, , smart now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well th they they went from f um being sort of physical boxes on the wall with um electronic switching going in. Yeah and um you know into them and the clicking and if you walk past the phone system years ago they used to be clicking all over the place um to basically as a server yeah your phone system now is just a server and uh uh even just before I retired I I installed uh a new phone system in the company I was working for and um that we didn't even have uh sort of a a physical system , it was all cloud based. The whole thing was cloud based. But we had we had people working from Spain. They actually uh one woman, um, because working from home became the norm um after COVID. She went and moved to a cottage in Spain and she carried on working answering the phone just as as she did you know, if um she was in in this country. Yeah. So uh it it's yeah it, it was interesting. It was a lot more interesting years ago, I must admit, with you know, the growth of networks and even before the internet and and such like it was it was a lot more interesting then. Um well I I felt you know, but um I still try try to keep you know, an eye on things. Um I um I I read a lot and I still read a lot. Um and with the AI stuff, uh we were we were implement implementing AI uh within the company uh the last five or six years uh before I retired. So um, you know and it was a it wasn't p a huge company that I I I did finished my sort of um career in. Um but we're still using AI then five or six years ago. So it's it's been coming for a long time. Yeah. Absolutely. So um when you got past Symbian and you got past kind of PDAs, um where tell us about the path of your your your personal mobile ph one habits. Not not so much the the business, but what did you use? I th the the the first um I didn't have iPhones at first, I had a uh H T C H T C hero. It was a it was a little ceramic it was a little ceramic type phone. Um it felt ceramic in the hand, it was probably plastic. With a little chin on it. Was that the hero? That was my hero. I love that. Yes, it was it was brilliant. Um and I I had a lot of mouth rollers. I I had this uh I if I wanted a phone I'd I wanted it to be sort of rugged and you know, I could I could take it anywhere without because phones were apart from the s the Nokia phones, phones were quite delicate when they first sm came out. But the H D C is the the DeFiers, the H D C Defyers and things like that. Um so yes I was on Android for a long time. I s I swapped over to iPhone uh when the iPhone 4 came out. Um, then I had iPhone four or five. But but even then I I I used to swap backwards and forwards. I could never have two phones. Um had to be one or the other. Oddly enough. I mean I have I ha I have sort of three or four phones now. But um but before I j I just had to be one or the other. I d I I do get that because I I want the phone that I'm using to have my main SIM card, my main phone number on it, and that that feels like the hub of my life then. Um so I I do totally get that. I mean I've got a hundred and one phones here, but I I only ever really consider seriously at any one time the one that's got my SIM card in it. Yeah, I'm I'm quite similar. I've got a secondary SIM and that device doesn't get touched so much. Um yeah, I'm very much the same. My main SIM. I've got two SIMs and the one SIMs in an iPhone and the other SIM is um in a Android device. Um it's it's actually um an on a device on a Magic A Pro Air. Oh nice. Yeah yeah. Imported it in China. Yeah. Yeah, imported imported it in. It's a super little phone, honestly. It's I took I took it away, we went to Jamaica a couple of weeks ago and I took it away there. Um the cameras on it uh are super they're not quite up to the eight magic eight pro level, but they're not that far off. I think they're exactly the same cameras that's on the V five. Oh yeah, which is very very good good shooter. I love the V five, yeah. But it's uh a six point three phone, sixteen gigabytes of memory, five twelve drive. Um it's a s it's a super little phone. What colour is it? Black. Did did you say it was the Magic Eight Pro Air? Air, yes. Yeah. Okay. Carry on. Yeah. Yeah. I I've had an eight pro. Um I like little phones. Um I the the iPhone I've got at the moment, um I I just bought it this weekend off off the classified. Uh David Bofffield dropped came down on Saturday morning, dropped it off for me, he was passing through it. Cool. So uh and that's um an iPhone Air. Uh okay. Because I I do like the um the feel. I mean I've got a an on a V five um uh folding device. And um, you know, I pick that up and I like to play about with that. Um but for carrying carrying bat it the s the lighter, the smaller the lighter the better. I mean I'm needing my glass I'm in my glasses. Even if the phone was a seven inch phone, I'm still needing my glasses, so I might as well have a small phone, yeah. This is a good point of comparison here, the the um eight pro air and the I Yeah. I mean obviously it's early impressions for you, but how how how do they compare? No, I I've had an iPhone Air before, so that's so I'm I'm sort of um the iPhone Air feels slightly lighter. Um it it it does fairly nice device. It's smooth, it's it's y uh y you you h you find yourself picking it up a lot. The screen's very, very clear and it just feels it yes, you know, like they used to just say iPhones are like a piece of jewellery. It does feel like a piece of jewellery, but it's just a a nice feel. But s but so it's so the honor feels nice as well. Um you know and it's it's a the honors uh um IP sixty nine rated so it's a strong little device, you know . Um the the iPhone the honors battery, I think it' abouts five and a half um capacity, you know, five thousand five hundred capacity. It lasts f it lasts a day and a half for using. And for a small phone, you know, you can't be wrong. Looks like a nice phone actually. You can order 'em in. I mean I use average dad tech stores, um . You know, um and um i yes it came through with Chinese, but uh there is no the I mean i it's it the only thing that doesn't work, you can't say okay Google to it. Um that but the the actual Google Google Google services work fine. Uh all my banking apps are working fine on it. Um all my the the Google Pay is working fine on it. Android Auto . There's no swipe to the swipe to the right to get your Google page. It comes up with a Chinese page and then goes off and says, you know, not allowed it Um but apart from that, you know, it's it's it's fine, it's a great little device. I dare say you could put um the global ROM on it though. I don't know. Um I don't know. Th I mean there isn't a global ROM for this at the moment 'cause they're not they're not selling it in this country, you know, um outside China. Even they're not selling it even in Hong Kong because as you know, you can get a phone with a Hong Kong ROM on and it's global. Yeah . Um doesn't sound like you're restricted too much though, are you? You you're not you're pairing a watch with it at all or I don't. I mean I like my um I like I like my mechanical watches. Uh my well mechanical watches. I have got smart watches, but uh I've never actually tried to uh well saying that I've paired um um y yes I have a paired um I've I've got a a ring, um, you know, a health ring that monitors your blood uh levels and also um uh mouse fetilia band and that pair up fine. That paid up fine, yeah. Oh yeah, okay. And it's just had a new it's just had a new update um to the magic um OS ten , um which has bought it's it's quite a bit of s stability. Well th it was stable before but it's just feels a lot more polished since the update. Hmm, that's good then. Yeah. Yeah. So uh nice bright screen by the looks of it. Six thousand nits. It is. It is. You know, I I don't keep my phones that long, I must admit so. I might you know, in in in a few weeks' time it might be up on the classified, you know um People get scared of of Chinese files, but they they needn't be really because they uh they just work, you know, th th nowadays. They especially with Magic OS ten, I think the earlier um honor um Chinese uh ROMs weren't um you know, you had s had problems with it but um especially since ten they've they've been fine. They've been f ancy fancy a Huawei then? Go the whole way. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I've I I've looked at them. I've looked at them. Um I mean I was in um I was in the Far East um earlier this year and um there was a lot of the the pure phones you could see the in in the in in the hands of uh the young people. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they look great, don't they, the pure ones. Yeah. It it it is a shame that you know it's it's not an open market for all these things. But you can make it work. You know, if you if you're determined enough you can kind of make it work. And some people are actually learning to live with um harmony and just saying, well actually all right, it's not as good but um not yet but actually they're they're getting quite a lot of mileage from it. So th there is that. But the the the the pure phones tend to be the the the the folding ones. I I'm sure that's probably not true, but the ones that we talk about and see are the folding ones and they look really nifty don't they? The X pure and the those kind of li have you ever had a a folding phone, David. Yes, yes, I had um I had uh I just sold it um uh Oppo Fine N6 recently. I've got a V five or uh I have a V five because I like the O uh folding phone a lot better than the upper. Yeah, I I've had I had the latest upper find N6 . Oh that's interesting. Yeah it was a it was a I like the phone, but the you know when when you you have a phone sometimes and you there's just something about you you just can't get on with, you know. Um it was the same with the opera and I think it might have been even something that's as daft as the front of the phone. I'm a bit O C D um and the front of the phone it's it's it's different on the one side of the screen to the other side of the screen and little things like that just yeah that know away me That would frustrate me actually, th no symmetry that was Yeah, yeah. But it but it is a nice fair and that the there was no uh crease really any visible crease in it. I was uh I I was I was w watching Flossy Carter's um review of it um a couple of nights ago and uh he's made it his kind of phone of the moment and he was whaming about it. Which he does with most new phones to be fair, but um i i i clearly um he was showing the screen off as you say the crease and he said you've just gotta be looking for it uh to see it and um it's he he questions whether ever they're gonna make it better than that. Even Apple for example. Um because y you've got a a hinge in there. It's it something's got to give. It can't possibly be completely invisible and I th I suppose that's the point. I mean that they I I I don't think they can make the crease any better than the the fine uh Ed Six. Um what I'd like them to do is make the inside of the screen a lot a bit more glass like . Because fingerprint magnets and things like that on any of the foldable phones, you know, they they they get quite grubby quite easily 'cause the screen being flexible it's not quite glass like and um yeah that's one thing I'll say about the V five though I find it um a big move on from the V three and it's m more much more glass like what the V three is. I don't know how that compares to the N six for you. Yeah. Well yeah, yeah. I mean the the the the the N I d I like the V five, I like I like magic um OS ten, I like the on a operating systems, I like honor cameras, I'm just comfortable with the honor devices. I mean when the V six um is launched, I will probably get one of those . Um you know. Um so I did n't get back on then . I do like folding phones. Um but you but you haven't playedings th. But you haven't got one. Yes, I've got the V five. Oh you've still got the V five , okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but um it's uh they're only as playthings. I'd never have my only phone. I mean it's it's it's the same w w with Android and um and um iOS . Apple phones bore me. They really do. They they the operating systems I'm very bored with. But when I get up in the morning I've got I've got by the side of my bed I've got my Android phone and my my i uh iOS phone on the side. I picked the Apple device up to take it downstairs to look through my emails first thing in the morning with my cup of tea. It's they are smooth and they are dependable. You know, I mean I'm fortunate that I I can have uh more than one device, you know. Um if I had to have just one device it probably would be Android. Because because the the iOS uh th they do bore me after a bit but they're dependable and they're it's efficient and you know all your banking apps are gonna work faultlessly and ev everything else is gonna work fault faultlessly on a an iOS device. You know. You want things to go wrong, don't you? Yes, I do. I I uh I th I thought to myself the other day, I thought I've got a problem. I think I I like setting phones up. Yeah. The amount of phones I have, you know. And at one point at one point the the the the the bank um Ford section phoned me up and asked me why I was installing the bank app on all these different phones, you know, sort of at least uh two every month, you know, and things like that. So I've got to stop. But it's it's a hobby. I enjoy I love looking at phones, I enjoy um you know, playing with the phones. Hm. Mope said to him, None of your business. But um I I I I f fallen foul of the bank people as well with keep swapping phones. Um Santander used to have a nine device limit and so every time I I used to write them down in the end 'cause every ninth device that I registered with them, I had to phone them up and speak to a human being and they physically, while I was on the phone, removed all nine and I started again. Why you you didn't have the ability to do it yourself. That's bank action. They would not let you register the tenth phone and you had to speak to a human being. Um they they did it, it was fine. Have you ever had um not been able to put put it to uh Google Pay? Because it says you've reached your limit um um card No, but I think the two go in hand in hand, don't they? They because the w when you set up Google Wallet it it um patches through to the bank and they've got data on that as well. I mean I'm I'm no expert but I let me set the app up on the phone um recently but when I went to add the card to the Google Pay it it came up with a message basically saying um you know that you've got too many and I have to go to the bank I had to speak to the bank and have them reset all the tokens. Right. Okay . No, I've not had the hamp to me yet, so um that's a new one. Fingers crossed, I don't get hold of that one. But I but you see, I've changed my behaviour to some degree now. I'm really cautious about what phones I put my banking stuff on and uh and Google wallet with my cards um because of this history of it being a problematic security wise. And so I'm I'm just you know, I just approach it gingerly as they say and um I only put it on ones that I'm really, really think I'm gonna use it on. And and also, you know, that brings us to the conversation probably about AI, back to what you're saying, David, and um how it's all taken off and now it's all kind of people people get in the phones now. We've we've had this with um Motorola recently, Joe and I, is that you're looking at all this AI stuff and to be honest, half of it is not that impressive. It sometimes it doesn't work anyway. Um look what nothing did with their phones with their essential space, which everyone was just like completely poo-pooing and I had a go at it and it's just like locked into their system and it's just like oh for goodness sake. So the the roundabout end of this story was that I have actually quite often now gone back to taking my debit card into Tesco with me and not bothering with the phone at all. So j just not worrying about it. The only the only time I the only time I come unstuck if I don't have the app on my phone is that sometimes you've got to go into the app to to verify something you're doing f for a a purchase or something online . Um but but actually the wallet I. I could easily live without it. Uh sorry, David. Yeah, I st I'll still tap my wallet everywhere. I I you know, I insist on putting all the card well, not all my cards, but mo most of my um bank cards on the ph ones. Um but then still tap my wallets. Yeah. I'm very twenty twenty six me, so I have just my phone all the time. Um and every shop I go in I've got an app for 'em as well. So like Tesco for example, I've got the club card on in my wallet. Yeah, yeah. I'll I 'm yeah, I'll I'll f I'll fetch my phone out to um show the club card to the machine and then fetch my wallet you have to pay for it. Yeah, that's what I do. But but things like um especially the the Apple Watch, um if you if you we go down to London occasionally, you know, just for a weekend away, um and get getting around the tube system with an Apple Watch is so easy. Or you know, Pixel watch or um I've I've never actually used um um sort of a wear OS watch, you know, with a with a card system. In in Singapore they're they're um transport system so advanced um you just tap on and tap off. It's it's really anywhere you get anywhere you go. It's a really advanced system they've got there. Yeah. Perhaps your approach, um, Jo, is because of the uh n not not being funny here, but the difference in our ages. So there's me and David in our sixties and you in your forties, and perhaps you know, you you you uh you embrace it more r um fully than us. And you work in retail of course and and the the part yeah. Yeah, partly. I mean I left my wallet at my friend's house um last year. Um and we didn't see each other for quite some time. I told him to post it but he didn't post it. So that kind of forced me to sort of use my cards uh the replacements on my phone and then I just didn't bring a wallet out since I've had it back. I think I got used to not having it on me. I I still don't hundred percent trust it, you know what I mean. It's going that way though, like for my store for example, it's cashless now. Um 'cause we we took as a business we take such little cash and paying for a G four S collection every week or every other week is is quite silly really. It's a big cost. So um yeah they're they're all stores are O two are cashless now and you can see a lot of uh companies doing that. Um so it's kind of the way it's going, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, it's definitely going that way. I mean I I haven't got h any cash in my wallet. Um I think I I had a I took thirty pound out of a cash point um in November, spent it over Christmas and never replaced it and I haven't I haven't got I've got some coins in the car just in case there's a I have to use a car park, you know, or a or a a shopping trolley or something. But um I just don't carry cash. You could argue as well with your ph one um it's more secure than the card which is hence it allows you to um go over the hundred pound limit. Like your card you can only spend a hundred can't you normally. Yeah. And 'cause your phone you need either your biometrics or a pin to get into um to then use. So yeah, it's in a way more secure. What happens does it always um i if you go to pay for something and I know if you go to pay for something in a card, sometimes it'll say, Oh, you have to insert your card and put your pin in What happens if you're using your phone all the time you never get he never asks you for for any sort of verification or anything like that. No, no, I've done um various contactless 'cause well I've not tested but with a card you I think it's free. After three contactless payments you then need to insert um which is a safety measure to make sure your c card hasn't been stolen by someone random. Um which is good, it's a good thing. Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder if there's anything like that with phones. I haven't experienced it. I don't know. I might try it. I might I might try leading my I've got some really nice wallets there as well. From the old school. Do you still carry a wallet, Joe? You don't Yeah I've got a nice Guinness one that my missus bought me. Um but since I left it with my friends and I've had it back I've not brought it out so much. Um it uh often housed my uh driving licence for I D but I don't get I D'd these days. Yeah. It just seems that when you go into to Tesco it just seems to be less hassle to get a card out of your wallet. I I know there's that funny thing about using your um phone to do the the points thing and then putting it away again. But laying that aside, just to to get your debit card out, it just seems simpler to me than getting your phone out, turning the screen on, blah blah blah. No I mean if you watch I think you' ifve got a watch that will do it, I suppose it's a bit different. But Ted you've already opened it up for the apps. You've already got it open. Yeah, that's what I said. If I wasn't bothered about that. Or you could have an old fashioned Tesco whatever they call it, points card as well. Yeah. I mean in America even things like your bus passes can be put onto Google Wallet and y yeah I I mean I've put my bus pass onto Google wallet so it's got a picture of it and it's all within the wallet but you can't use it to on the buses . They they invited they invited me to put my passport on to Google wallet recently. I d I I declined. So one negative about using your phone . Um or two actually. Obviously the battery anxiety. So if you've got your train ticket or um your payments or your phone if it it dies it's it's a big pain in the butt. Um and the other thing is some things require a cellular network, buying things don't but I've had train tickets on my um trip.com. Um I got to Luton station and I couldn't load the bloody ticket. It was so frustrating. Um and but like the the train was about to arrive. Luckily the gentleman let me through 'cause I showed him my email confirmation of my ticket. But yeah, I would have missed my train, um, just 'cause I didn't have a cellular connection in the station. So yeah sometimes maybe having the actual train ticket or the actual card is sometimes better. You can actually associate um a valid government identification on on your um Google wallet, on your Andrew wallet. But it's it seems to be you have to do it just for one phone because I I actually went through all the process and and you showed your passport and it verifies your passport and ver and it comes up that n this is now a valid identification for you. It's almost like an ID card. Um but when I went onto another Android phone. It wasn't there and it said that I'd already registered on a phone with this um Oh right. You can only do it on one phone, can you? Yes, yes. So I but I haven't bothered since I'm sure there's a headache to change phone as well. As I said as as I said just now, they they offered me to do that and I was just very wary of it. And so I didn't do it. But I had no idea. I mean if it's restricted to one phone, uh that's meow anyway . That's true. This goes back to um Ian Bundy's like having things separate for separate um things again, doesn't it? Yeah. The un unbundling. Yeah, again. Um yeah. Mm. Okay. So um what else you got to talk about? You've got a couple of rants here, have you? Yeah, yeah. I I mean I was gonna talk about the fact that uh we seem to be um overwhelmed with camera um specs on phones. Um and I'm I'm I'm as guilty as the next person sort of looking at uh I mean the the Oppo Find X Ultra is is just about to come out tomorrow. Um and it's got two hundred megapixels on all the lenses and all the influencers are saying, you know, it's the best thing you could ever even even better than the Xiaomi seventeen ultras. Um but but it's it's the I still think I've had uh um phones with brilliant cameras on them. I still can't take a good picture sometimes. So um you know some you look at some of the photos of the in in the um uh peace photos . Some brilliant photos. Uh the photos of the month. Last month it was stuck on a iPhone mini . Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, and um people like Chad Dixon, I love his sort of photos. And that's not a an ultraphone or anything like that. It's not one of these. He's he's uses uh S twenty five F E. Yeah, that's it. So i it's it's not the um it's not the phone a lot of times, it's the person, you know. I went uh well uh like I said, I I went on a a c a cruise of a lifetime to Asia and leading up to the cru ise, um I w I wanted to take the best phone. I I went you know, I I did all my research. Uh, you know, it had to be the the the best sort of camera phone that possible because I I'd never I might never see some of the sites again that I was going to see. And in the end, due to circumstances and one thing or another, I took a standard iPhone 17 and the photos were brilliant and you know, th they I just loved the photos so all this push to to to have the best camera phone out , uh you know, it's sometimes it on the likes of me it's it's wasted . Yeah because I I B always takes with um an A range Samsung um takes some wonderful shots doesn't he as well. Yeah. So yeah I I agree it's it's um you have to have a knife for it as well. This happens a lot with people with um camera gear, which um like they buy all the best gear. It doesn't make 'em the best uh best cam uh best at photography, does it? Um the gear and no idea they say don't they? Yeah. No no the the the rant that I I put down, um it's only a little rant. It's uh I use w well, my family and everyone I know uses WhatsApp for everything. Um but again , why why isn't it why is it that WhatsApp doesn't have a centralized database, you know, be Google Google Drive or whatever. Um because if you move WhatsApp from your iPhone to your Android phone, it doesn't carry over the data. They what the Android phone um backs up to Google Drive and the iPhone backs up to iCloud. Yeah. And a company and other other apps do it. Other apps are you know there',s plenty of other apps that um that that c uses Google Drive, you know, you can back up to a um a common uh database as it was. So I just don't understand why WhatsApp can't do it. Yeah, it's very frustrating, I must agree. I saw a uh an article going through the the press today or yesterday was it that was suggesting that WhatsApp's gonna be banned in the EU anyway. Well I know that should shouldn't affect the UK but it probably will. Um did you see that story? And I I don't know what's behind it. No. No It was that it cut down . It was it was something . Sorry, go on. No, you carry on, sorry. Uh all I was going to say was that it it was I think something to do with the, you know, EU regulations um in the usual kind of manner. Um so even though it probably if there's some truth behind it, um it probably w shouldn't affect the UK but as Just quickly I suspect meta will make the diff the changes they need to make to keep it going, I would have four it''ss it huge, isn't it for them. Yeah yeah yeah so basically advertisement aren't they um within the app. Yeah but uh the the other the other thing um that that sort of gets me back up a bit is on ready emails . Um the weekend Joe you listen we was with Yeah. We was we were with some friends and and uh one of the ladies said, um, oh I'm having trouble with sound sound she passed me a phone and she had a thousand and fifty three on ready mails. Oh my yeah. I see this daily, yeah. And you think to yourself, what is the point of having an email address? She says, well, I open it up sometimes and if I can't see anything I shut it again. Wow . What is the point of email what is the point of even having uh any sort of I think that Joe um would argue that it's because he lives in different services these days. in different ways. It it may be again that us two in our sixties, we've kind of grown up thinking that email is the the gold standard of communication. And I still do that. I I always reach for email first. I live in email all the time . Um but but I think that younger people, um uh particularly you know, people in their twenties and whatever, they just don't give a stuff about email. They they're they're expecting to be contacted via Joe? Do you know uh I do like email I actually do um but I'm such an idiot. I say yes to all the things that say, oh can we send you rubbish via email? Say, yeah, go on then and then there's so much rubbish on all my emails as a result . Um I have to have big old um unsubscribe sessions to get rid of load of it. Um so it's it's it's my own fault. I I I get bombarded with rubbish and then it puts me off using the email. Um 'cause I have to sit there deleting loads and unsub subscribing loads. I never learn though, I still say yes every time I shop just 'cause it's quick. But uh yeah, m I mean my uh my main email account now, I think I've got five emails in there. Um anything else I've I've in folders or deleted. Well let's see how many I've got. I've got two . Yeah, I think it might be that we've grown up with th that being the way and you know, I was I worked in business um all those years and I just I d m email you know, we we moved away from stamps and letters and sending people checks and you know, m royal mail postage and all that into email and it was just brilliant. It was like instant gratification all the time and it worked really, really well. And I just don't get why people don't want to do it. And I I guess the answer is because of messaging apps that everything is um self destruct really and people don't need to keep stuff and um y if you looked at my I'm sure you're probably the same David, if you looked at my um my labels in my Gmail, my my my hoard, my data hoarding activities for email, it's completely unnecessary. I've got emails right back to d um two thousand and four when I got my first Google account and th the the very first emails from two thousand and four are still there . But it but it's organised? Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. And I can and I can rem I can look back at things like um, you know, when the first PS PSC episode was and and I can search on that and because it's Google it's the search engine well for me anyway works really well in that respect. So I'm with you. Um a thousand unread emails . I could never find it. In the Google search, um I mean when I was in uh at work we used Outlook and search on Outlook was very good. Um but the Google, the Gmail search, even on the desktop, you can search for something and just can't find it sometimes and it's bringing up emails that you know has been deleted from years ago in the search. I have a different I have I have a different experience, David. I think that it worked really well. I do agree that on a phone it's no n yeah, th it's it's a joke. But um on my on my desktop it works really well. Okay. Each to their own. Each to their own. Different experiences. Yeah. So having said all that, I I do have three different emails . Hm. Well I I've yeah, I've got three, you know, I've got the two personal ones . I've got two personal ones and I've got uh one that I share between my wife all the household stuff. I've got tons of email addresses and they all go through my Gmail and it's just like you say just now, David, it's just that it's all organised and uh you know, I I know where everything is. It's a i I'm I'm I'm a frustrated libr I should have been a librarian, I reckon. That was gonna be my next question, like do you pull through one hour ? 'Cause I like to stick um my Gmail stick to Gmail, my Outlook my hotmail's through Outlook and my Yahoo one is through Yahoo. So I have the individual apps for each one. Um yours through G Gmail do you all of my all of my um all of my emails just go straight through my personal Gmail account. And it works beautifully. And it's worked beautifully since two thousand four. Uh an another tip that um we we do tell people about and that they don't realise it as I say I've we've got um a shared Gmail account with myself and my wife that all the household emails go to, you know, um all the household bills or any any emails to do with the house. But that also gives us a uh Google Photos account um that's shared between my m me and my wife. So if I take any pictures or if my wife takes any pictures they automatically go to this account. So we we 've you know we we we've got access to both uh if my wife's out with her friends and she takes pictures, you know, I c I can see them as soon as she gets into Wi-Fi. You know and uh a lot of people, um couples that I know, you know, they they they they don't realise they can do things like that. Mm-hmm. Same with the the maps, the location tracking on maps. Um is the c before we just leave the email topic though. I do I would like to say that I don't completely trust Google but and I do have on my main computer at home um uh Thunderbird running and every day at three o'clock in the morning it scoops up all the previous days emails and saves it on my computer and I've got a hum ongous um folder on my computer full of uh um the exactly the same emails and and attachments right back to two thousand and four as well. So I do I do have a back up. It's it's because you don't get many SMS messages now and you can't you can't do w you know uh what you used to like to do with you that's a good Well well phone you it's funny you should say that 'cause I was looking at my phone just today and looking at when um my last phone call was, my last voice phone call and it was on the second of April. Where are we now? The twenty seventh. I haven't had a a a a phone call for twenty five days . And text messages. Yeah, and text messages are are not far behind really. They tend to be um functional text messages, not personal ones. Stuff to do with you know banks or whatever and OTAC to get into accounts, yeah. Yeah, exactly. Two step verific ation, yeah. So yeah. Um the w world is changing around us, David. We're not keeping up. Well yeah, it is difficult to keep up, I must admit, you know. Um I suppose it keeps keeps me active, you know, it keeps me uh interested. Yeah, let's talk to um you about the razor fold because Gary Clark, um our friend in the group, has got hold of one and he's been setting it up. I like the size of the di device he says. It feels good in the hand. There are nice design details on the opening edge as it is slightly beveled towards um in onwards, inwards, which uh gives a nice grip to the phone when opening the screen. Both the internal and external displays look stunning. Size-wise, it's a touch smaller than the Oppo Find X8 Pro I've been using. Significantly shorter than the Razor 60 Ultra but similar width on the outer screen. Much thinner than I remember it being, still thicker than the latest from the likes of Honor and Oppo. Button placement is good with nice differentiation between the buttons. Hinge is very strong and supports a lot of angles from quite tight to wide open. The battery is really good as during my use so far I've managed to get thirty-six plus hours of runtime. Um to be fair a lot of that was in my pocket, etc etc. But yeah, he's quite impressed with the battery. Music playback is quite nice, especially if it's in the back ground. He's no audio pile but it sounds alright to him. Tried our Octopi launcher to test it and it all works well except that um there's a bit of a glitch with um split screen use so that needs to be ironed out. Core quality is as good as any other modern phone I've used, including cases nasty and cheap feeling. But I don't care anyway because actually the um the phone is okay being used without a case, he says. Um so, you know, um I I do I do need to find an external screen protector, he says though, because there wasn't one fitted. The crease is practically invisib le when in use and viewing straight on. You can see it from off-center angles, but you can't really feel it. It's better than what I've experienced with the find N five and the Magic V five, but it is behind on the latest gen from other manufacturers. That's it for now, but I'm pretty damn happy he says. Unless you specifically want the FIFA edition, however, because he got the FIFA edition. Um just go for the normal version as you get more freebies with the normal one. Um also there is no charger in the box, um but that's uh that's extra if you have a he he's been using a GAN charger and he says that the um he he he gets good results from that as well. So um thanks Gary. Um we'll look forward to your full review which no doubt you'll be putting up somewhere and uh we'll give it a go. Joe, you've got one coming, haven't you? Yes, I have indeed. I I I stepped on the same deal he was offered um and I can't wait. I was meant to come today and uh UPS are rubbish. I I won't say too much more 'cause I'm quite upset by it, but um dear Yeah, this week I should have it. Would you like a hand Yeah. With the gifts I did negotiate though, Ted. So I've got the watch and bud uh loops coming with it as well. Yeah, cool. Well done. Um any thoughts on the razor fold, uh David ? I was talking to Joe before we started recording and uh th for some reason I've had I've had motorolas, I've had the motor the Flip uh five uh the Flip Five, the Motorola uh Ultra Five and and the ultra six um but it's I I never really give them a I never consider them really and I don't I don't know why. Right. Um I don't know whether it's the I mean the the the Motorello signature, uh you know, I thought about that, but um it it's just something about Motorola phones uh at the moment that um as I say I don't consider them. It's interesting how you um like the honor phones and you're uh you're okay with Apple phones because I've be I've been banging on about the crossover between the two and them copying everything Apple and maybe maybe that's something to do with it? Maybe, maybe, I don't know. I don't know. I had um as I say, the the 60 Ultra. Um I didn't get on with that mainly because uh I had to open it up to use it and and it I didn't like the the form factor, th the the the way the the the writing was sort of small and the screen was sort of long and you know uh thin a as such. I I just couldn't get on with that. Um but um yeah it's like pixels. I d I've had pixels in the past but I I don't really consider them at the moment and I uh and and it's not because I like a cartoony um uh operating system. I don't. Um on the the on a phones I always get the the icons to um I take all the glass um you know, the stuff off. Uh and change the icons to a more business type icon. I bet you I bet you liked um Windows Mobile, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, I did . I I liked uh I think that was a good guess. Yeah. I like I liked the time. And and if you if you have you ever used a launcher called Niagara ? I I well I know what it is. I haven't actually used it but yeah it's fascinating because you just have a list of your your normal apps and then the it's it's it's quite clean. Yeah. You can get your phone to look really nice with my aggregate. Whether it works on a folder well I don't know but um Yeah yeah I think I think it does. But um like Gary was saying that that they that some things need ironing out like when you open up the um the the the phone with some launchers it just doesn't quite work properly. I thought Octopi had actually fixed that, but maybe I'm wrong. So we'll look forward to more of his thoughts on that. Paul Granger is next. Last Monday's PSC was a great listener, he said. That's when we had about two hundred people on it. I was particularly interested in the discussion on keyboard phones and in particular the issue of size and weight. Having used a unihertz Titan 2 now for six weeks, I'm getting used to handling it. It's not as easy in the hand as the BlackBerry passport. The passport is easier to handle mainly due to Blackberry's clever design, but my main point is cost . The Titan II price, now this is the the um Titan two not the elite one the the original Titan two the kind of the tank um the the Titan II price is three hundred and ninety nine quid which I think is very good value in today's market. Some say that if these phones were lighter and smaller, more people would buy them. However, to make a Titan which is smaller, let's say 30% smaller, it would involve more design material, so more expensive. So people would pay a say 50% premium for a lighter, more manageable Titan 2, would they? I'm not so sure. I think the current price is a big attraction, but there are obvious trades off trade-offs. The phone was um updated to Android sixteen for me, he says. The latest Google security update is december twenty five, so that's lagging behind. The unihertz website says the phone will receive security updates and Android updates to 203 0. But it doesn't mention anything about frequency, so they've obviously learned all they know from Motorola. So the Unihertz Titan II, I did have Jim Fowles one here and you had a play with it as well, Joe. Um and it and it was a bit of a brick. And going back to QWERT phones, David, any thoughts? No . Um n no no not really. Um I I was going through some old stuff the weekend and uh came across my E seventy ones and E seventy twos and that they're beautiful little phones, you know, th they really are well made and everything. But I was sort of testing if I could use the keyboard and and they were good keyboards on those. Um but uh no, no. Um I don't need to I'm I mean I at the same at the same token . Um a lot of you youngsters now just talk to the phones. They never y ipe or anything like We're a couple of old furts, you know . Um So yeah, uh it's not for me either. However, I have to say, as we w we were saying the other day, Joe, that the Titan Two Elite and the Click Thingy phone, whatever it's called, um I I I think they do look really interesting. Even though I'm not high I'm highly unlikely to go back to a QA phone, um I do think they look interesting and not being such a tank it might be a bit different, mightn't it? Yeah, I mean I I mean the Titan Two Elite is still quite tankish, um but I think it fixes some of the issues we had with the keyboard on the Titan Two um which makes it a bit more appealing. 'Cause I do like the idea of uh having a QWERTY keyboard, I do. Um and there was things I liked about the Titan too to be fair. There was some lovely things about it, but um I guess like it like um Paul Granger said, a three nine nine, what do you expect though? Yeah. Um I looked I looked the price a bit up after I read he'd written he'd written that three nine nine and and it looked to me as though they were charging like five hundred quid for it or you know up to. Um so I I don't I don't know whether they suddenly had a price hike on it or not, but that's what certainly on their website. I don't know about elsewhere. Um but yeah. Yeah, because they had 'em cheap, didn't they? Right. Okay.. Yeah Kickstarter, wasn't it, was on there? I think it was, yeah, absolutely. Right, quick shout out to Extreme Skins. Don't forget that our friendly skinning firm um is there when you need stuff. Extremeskins.co. uk . Um I was amazed the other day when I took the one of their skins off of my Pixel book. Um they sent me this one for the Pixel book which I put on some months ago. Um and I just fancy changing it for another one and I you wouldn't believe the the glue they've um got for the sticky on that stuff is just amazing. Uh you know, I I was yanking it and pulling it, I thought I'm never gonna get this off again. Um uh but eventually I did. It's just really, really strong. So just a shout out for the um for the extreme skin stuff because the glue on the stuff seems to be really, really good. Have you found that Jo? Yeah, not only is it good though, um when you do take it off there's no residue at all. No although it's strong it comes off cleanly. So yeah the the uh the really are good products. Um I've always loved them. Yeah. Shout out to extremes .co.uk who are not sponsoring today's show but we like them anyway. Let's go to the app wpra. David you,'ve got a couple or three apps to highlight for us? Yeah, um the first one was an app that I've used really since 201 2. And it's I've got all my password s stored in the the um the the Google password um for for you know um for all when I'm on the web and things like that but I I uh this safe, safe in the c safe in cloud, not I always say safe in the cloud, but it's not safe in cloud, is a database that's multi-platformed. You can have it on Windows, Mac, um, iOS, or Android, um, and it's st ores it can store your um all your passwords and you can use it to to uh fill in on your phone as well, but I never do. But you can also have all your bank card details and you can have any sort of information, your license, you you know, um any sort of information that especially the older I get, you know, you forget. Um and I've you I've always used the one of the first things I I do when'm putting installing stuff on a phone and I put safe safe in in cloud on there. Um and I've got it on my my computers, on my iOS devices and you know, I've always got access to it. Um Ah, it's fifty quid No, no. I no I I paid for it years and years ago when it was a bit something like four pounds . I just cli I just clicked through to the um the Google Play. Certainly the Android version is forty nine pounds forty nine. Very random price. And the other the other the other app I've only just come across and um I I've used that before, like Starry Night, things like that, which you point at the the sky and it tells you where the the stars are, you know, the star yeah. But this the the what I forget what it's called, stel stell stellum? I did put it in the Stellarium. Stellarium, yeah. It it does the same. Point it at the the sky and it'll tell you where Jupiter is and things like that. But then you can zoom in with you know, just pinch in. And you can zoom right up to Jupiter and see the the surface of Jupiter and the stars. Cool. And the and and it's qu it's it's fascinating. Um you know, you can sit there just with your phone uh zooming in at these different star clusters. I mean star is skies used to show you the big dip and all this, but you couldn't zoom in like this app. You can actually zoom in. That's really cool. Obviously it's it's not live, they are s sort of pictures, but it's a clever app. It it looks like it's not mobile friendly. That there's not an app. It's like Linux or Mac OS or Windows. No, I've got I've got it on my phone. Um yeah. Um the place for Open open source? It looks like it is. It's not open source now. It's in the Pla Store and in the um Okay. Perhaps I'm looking at the wrong perhaps I'm looking at the wrong website then. Um and it's a it's it's a fascinating uh app as I say. Um I said it's the right logo you've got there. Um Um yeah, it's it's the Stellarium. It's the right logo that matches on on um the Play Store. Right, it's funny, 'cause on their website it just on Stellarium dot org it . I can see what you're looking at, Teddy. Yeah, it just shows a free version that you can try which you can zoom in and the the paid version which I think is something something about fourteen pounds for a one off payment, which you know, I'd prefer anyway, if I if I like a like something, you know, I don't mind paying for these. But a one off payment for life, um and that gives you high resolution. Yeah, when you zoom in. Fourteen, forty nine. Is this a trend with apps? No. No, no. Yeah I know but it was forty nine pence. The forty nine pence was there still too. Yeah. There's a if you look on the Play Store there's like there's the free version and the the other version, so you can install the free version first. Oh okay. It does sound really interesting though. It's a good find. And um yeah. I used to have one of these on my Nokia phone Yonks back in of Symbian and and I used to point it up at the stars and I can't remember what the app was called but yeah, this idea's been around for a long time but that's really cool, isn't it? It's wonderful on the V five, David. On the inner screen. It's brilliant. Yeah, I haven't got it on that yet, but it's um I would say we've all seen these apps before that use is augmented reality, but uh I've never seen one where you can zoom in on a on the start . Okay, we've got a couple of bits of news here, Joe. Sidephone, which we're assuming that um well actually we know that Jim Fowl has ordered one of these and it does look quite interesting. Um Thoughts welcome on it. I I think we probably mentioned it once before, but it looks like a um a simple um phone which is modular and it's got it looks like it's got two sections to it and you can um swap the keyboards out and you can what else can you do? You can you can um change the battery easily and but the main I think the main moving part is the is the keyboard and you and they've got different options for people that want to have different keyboards on them. Um yes, a dumb phone but um actually quite smart in uh certainly physically. Um could you get used to T nine again, David? No. No Never do it when when we had to do it, you know, so uh It's an interesting idea. It's a very cute size. I like the um I like the like the iPod style um modular connection you can put on there. Yeah, that's a little uh music player is it, yeah. Yeah. That is quite good. I'm sure that s three hundred um dollars it is. I'm sure that we'll get to play with it because Jim is buying one and he's very, very good at sharing. Um Big Me unveils the high break dual smartphone with a weird rear display. Um so this is a um a a Big Me um smartphone which is a a proper e ink display. Um and it's um oh no, sorry, it's not. It's an L C D . Oh oh I see so they're they're uh they're going after um next paper here are they? Mm okay I didn't realise that. Oh no it says oh no, hang on a minute. It's an e ink display on the main display and the uh it's got an L C D screen on the back cover. And that L C D display on the back cover is a big circle next to a camera and a LED lamp. Um and it looks a bit of an eyesore to me, frankly. But it they're showing it with a with a a st ation clock going round on it. But I'm presuming that you'll be able to put you know other stuff on that if you wanted to. Well, there would be no point if you couldn't, I don't think. So um looks like the specs are okay. Um let's just hope that the e Ink um you know the the experience is better than the ones that we had before. Um so yeah, watch this space. Um any thoughts on that, anyone? I'm less keen on this one. I I I've never used an e ink device, I must admit, and you know again it's something that doesn't really appeal to me. It's just the uh what's the what's the the annoying bit really is the the ghosting and the refreshing. Um like you you know having a Kindle from ten years ago. You y th it's that kind of experience. Um so anyway. Um you know I think you've put me off big me for life, Ted, when you spoke the whole Chinese thing. Um we've spoken about the Find X nine Ultra, so that's coming and it's here. The Honor six hundred Honor six hundred pro um is all over YouTube now so if you did have any um uh reason not to talk about it, Joe, you it it must have gone now, surely . Uh well one embargo dropped on the twenty first and I was allowed to talk about a few bits and bobs like the the battery capacity and stuff like that. But um apparently I'm not allowed to till the sixth officially, which is the launch date. Right. Um but yeah actually I've been invited to the launch date, but I can't get out of work at the moment, which is really frustrating. Shut the shop. Yeah, I just just shut the shop, they don't need it . Um I'm looking to get cover, so hopefully I can get someone to come over and let me free. Um but yeah. Sorry, go on. Yeah, go on Ted. I was just gonna say I've been watching a couple of reviews online on on YouTube . And the the the thing that s stands out to me, I'm afraid, as usual, is this whole um no chi charging on the on the six hundred, which is a shame because otherwise it looks actually quite good . And also apparently one reviewer said that it's got the same lie as the magic eight lights about always on displays. Um and it says it's got an always on displa y, but actually you can't put it on always. It is just a lie. And that's on the Honor six hundred pro as well as the six hundred. So Honor, you're very, very naughty and telling a pack of lies right you're not. That's quite poor. Yeah, not not a fan of that 'cause you shouldn't say always on display if it's not actually always on. Um very very naughty honour. Um interesting to see what price they put it out at because um Well I know but I can't say. Yeah, I well I I I I've someone someone put down that it they thought they thought it'd be around about the eight hundred on GSM arena. I think it's down as sort of round about the eight hundred pound mark. Well if that was the case it'd be right next to the they're selling the Magic Eight Pro for eight hundred and something pound now, so I just don't see it. 'Cause you can get the eight pro at eight nine nine on a deal quite often. It's it's I think it's one thousand and ninety nine full regular retail price, isn't it? But on always have deals. Um and and I I dare say whatever they launch these devices at, you'll you'll always see them cheaper on their website, always. Um I think they do it on purpose just to make their deals look uh more appealing. Did you say with the update to the Magic um OS on the eight pro that now the zoom's gone up to two hundred? Oh has it? Oh I haven't looked at I've got the eight pro again as well so I can actually check that. I mean the cameras haven't changed but the zoom's gone up to I wonder how shy it is though. Yeah. Right, okay then. Before we get to um photo of the week, um anything from your Joe's throws ? Um just I've got the um razor fold coming. Um I should have had it tonight but um not got it yet. Um I am still doing my signature review, it's just I'm just editing it and I'm taking my sweet time with it. Um 'cause just 'cause I'm lazy and I've been doing other stuff. But I will I will launch that this week I think. I'm I'm really looking forward to it, yeah. Cool. Oh oh God, don't don't uh be too excited, it's not that great. Um but yeah, I l I do love that device, so um yeah, it is nice going through the review and reminiscing when I had it in hand 'cause it was nice. Um I also got the the watch and the loop buds so we can talk about them um n next week, Ted, perhaps. Cool. Or when we're next on. Um 'cause you you think highly of the loops um don't you? I do, yeah, and the watch. Although you you've got the new round watch, haven't you? Yeah, that's what's coming, yeah. Um but we can also talk about the pen which you've got. So I can't should be getting that. Um so I'm looking forward to that. But my sim is back in the V five st ill. Um I should really have it in the edge seventy but um I have still haven't done that which is uh very naughty, very bad motivator I am, 'cause I've got to give it back on the fifteenth so I'd better get that sorted really. Um like you said though I'm just not that excited after having the signature. Um my my enthusiasm has really gone for it. But yeah, I should really have a little play, so I will do soon. Co Cool. Um but yeah not much else to say for you. Okay, that's fine. Um the the Motroder H seventy I've had here I've had one here as well from the same PR route and I've done a written review on that and that's up on my blog. So um I'll link to that in the show notes. Maybe another week when we've got more time we'll do a bit more of a dive into that. I I have to say that I initially I thought meh as you say, Joe, with a signature in one hand and this in the other, it's like really? Um but there you go. I th there's uh I did find in the end some some positive stuff f uh about it. So um I'm I quite happily run through that. The other thing that I was doing this week and I'll put a link in the show notes to this is that I fired up the Nothing Phone two A plus again um which has been sitting around. It's still got one more year to go of um updates. It's gonna get Android seventeen, it's got Android sixteen and actually I was really impressed with it again. I thought it had a lot going for it and the per certainly the price it is now because you can still buy one ne w. Um it's really nice and it's it's a better size I think than all of the rest of the the fo the the nothing phones since then because it's got nice round corners and it's a little bit more dinky. Um really like it. Apart from it not having wireless charging, um I could I it I could live with it, no question at all. Really nice phone and very impressed. I'll put a link in the show notes to that one as well. So let's get to um photo of the week and Joe, let's have your pick. Yeah, I've picked up one from Jeremy Harpham. Uh he's called it Ant Life, um on a taken on an Oppo Find X9 Pro um which is a fantastic uh camera phone. Um I was really liked I I like the film um what's it called? Bugs Life. Oh right. And and and ants actually that's the one I'm thinking of ants. And um yeah, just uh yeah, just it's I love the the animation it sort of almost you can see in the image. I'd love to do image to video on this image. Yeah. Yeah. It's really wonderful shot. And the blur as well in the background. Yeah, it's pretty cool. You should try that 'cause you could just you can just um download the photo from Mi Wee and and and stick it in the phone and do it, can't you? It'll be that'll be really interesting. Yeah, go for it. So yeah, nice nice photograph um Jeremy certainly. And super detail on the really really closely focused on the the ant . Um uh really really cool. Any thoughts, David? Yeah, uh I I did look at that uh when I when I was uh thinking I do like a macro photo I must admit. You know, I tried try to get some uh macro photos myself, you know, get as close as possible but uh yeah it's great. And you picked one, David, for your photo of the week, um, which we actually talked about on last week's camera creations podcast, which is now PSC Camera Creations Podcast. No it's not. It's PSC photography. We'll come to that l ater. Um but yes, um one from Ian Bundy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just I I like the colours, I like the the yellows, the greens and the blues. Um it w it just it it you know y you could you it be you could be there um you know just looking at the photos, one of those photos where you can just imagine being there. And I do like the perspective, you know, the wide ang I like the the the leading of the road, uh lead your eyes straight down the road and um the horizon's really nice and the there's a a red and white striped light house at the on the horizon point as well. Um which is y yeah, you're right. It's very colourful, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It would have been nice if the red and white lighthouse was scrap smack bang in the middle of the in the middle of the road. Um and there's isn't that um a telegraph line going in on the right hand side? I didn't notice that before. I think it is, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Any thoughts, Joe? Yeah, I I I like I know what you mean by the s having symmetry, but sometimes a bit of asymmetry is quite nice, so like the clouds uh to the left is like slightly different as well. Um yeah, I I like it, it's really nice. The the blue uh has he edited this one though? I don't think so. 'Cause the blue's very very unique, uh blue there, isn't it? Yeah. It's nice appealing, it looks good. If he very good if he had ed edited it, he would have taken that that telegraph line out probably. Yeah, true, he probably would have, wouldn't he? Yeah. This uh apparently this is Happysburgh where ver that is. Happis bur Lighthouse. I do like a lighthouse image. That's cool. And I did look at um the uh the photo John Trimman put on the black and white photo. Mainly because it was with a Volvo uh Volvo a Vivo X three hundred Ultra, which has only just it come out. It's one of those ultra phones and I just thought oh he's got one of those already Which one? Yeah, I nearly um I nearly chose that one as well, funny enough. Which one is that? Which but what's it of? Towards the beginning. Just of a street. Oh the Coronation Street one. Oh yeah. Yeah, that''s its it.. That Cool. Coronation Street should have been the title. I like that one too, yeah. Absolutely. The uh a a grim North Doncastern South Yorkshire. I called him Ultraman today 'cause he he's currently got the X three hundred Ultra um and the X nine Ultra coming as well. Yeah. Yeah, it's been launched tomorrow. That's the launch date tomorrow at the twenty eighth. Yeah. John always gets the uh ultra phones and he loves it. Yeah, good for him. Right, okay, so that's the photo of the um week done. And I th we're running quite a bit long now so I won't plow into all the stuff about the changes to um the podcast. But I have put on to the um groups through the three groups in question, um PSC um camera creations as it's now called, PSC photos, PSC videos, and PSC. So four groups. I put a load of blurb, an explainer, and an infographic. So I'll put a link to in the show notes to that to tell you what we're doing with the podcast, with um camera creations podcast and how we're involving phones in that now, which we haven't done before, but the the team at Camera Creations felt as though um the time was ripe to drop the whole camera only thing and fair enough um a good argument was made and we're going to do that so I'll put a link in the show notes so if anyone hasn't read that then they can do so now. Before we go, um the the classifies group, Joe, seems a bit bere ft of anything interesting at the moment, doesn't it? Yeah, there's more wanted ads in there than actual um things for sale and and the things that are for sale um none of them are phones, which is not a problem. I'm just quite surprised there's no phones to pick from. Um but the industry's kind of gone that way that people are ha holding on to phones longer um because I'm certainly feeling it at work um but yeah it's it's it's this um it's not as as fruitful as it used to be classified. It's a love looking in there. I mean it's good for my wallet. There's a pair of headphones. Yeah, there's some good headphones in there, yeah, the bows ones in there. Yeah. David, did you find anything or well no it was sold th the the thing that I was looking at there was nothing there nothing there at all. But I think the the the the the problem is that that there's a lot of high end ph ones that people have got now. So if you're putting them on that there are a lot of money and s you know, say twelve months ago there used to be a lot of stuff on the classified that was a bit f you know, cheaper and and low end and they move quite quickly, things like that do. But uh it's it's a big it's a big decision if you're s selling a phone for, you know, just under a thousand pounds and, you know, off the glass produ Yeah. This could be the s the calm before the storm though, Ted, 'cause all these ultraphones are coming out. I know the the community will be buying 'em and trying 'em. Um so perhaps we'll see some ultraphones on in a month or so. Um watch this space maybe. Maybe we will, yeah. We shall see. Um but there you go. Thanks ever so much for coming on today, David. It's been great to talk to you. I hope you enjoyed your n your new experience. Yes yeah thanks for having me yeah great to h to hear about your stuff and what you've been doing and where you came from and what the what you did for a living and all of that. Really interesting. So fainshowchat.uk is our website with two S's in the middle, don't forget. Um and most of the time I'm hanging out on Mi Wee, but you can get all my stuff as well on um Ted Salmon dot com where you'll find all the Mi Wee groups and all the audio podcasts so head across there. If you want to buy me a copy you can do that. It's at PayPal.me forward slash Ted Salmon. And if you want to buy um Joe a copy it's at PayPal dot me forward slash hickey eighty five so make sure you spell that correctly and you'll be able to buy him one too. Um don't forget Podhub UK as well which has just been revamped this week with um some new stuff and Steve keeps that going which is great. Um and we'll be back next week. No we won't. We'll be back of the week after, won't we? I think the next show is um no it is next week, isn't it? No it's not. It's the week after. Not I it's uh very So two weeks time today with Jim Fowle is on, the aforementioned Jim Fowle, um with with his array of interesting and different phones. It's always great to have Jim on because he's just got at any one time he's got something else going on. He's also just sent me his um little keyboard thingy with a screen, which I'll we'll be able to talk to him about that as well. And maybe he'll have some more interesting news about some of the phones he's been ordering, like that side thingy that we spoke about earlier. Um but also some of those Qerty devices as well. So look forward to that. Next uh no not next Monday, the Monday after. Very difficult to keep up, you know. Um so thank you ever s ever so much for listening, those who have made it this far and uh we'll be back with more in two weeks' time and uh catch you with me week bye for now