Upcoming TV Schedule and Wrap Up

Pilot TV this week here be Dragons because we're heading back to Westeros for more Man versus Dragon action in season three of Game of Thrones prequel, House of the Dragon. And if Westeros isn't enough for you, we also make it to Wales. in a bid to unearth the truth behind a historic injustice in Welsh drama, The lightight in the Hall still Waters That's another way. Helloi Bayot Hellid andam Sadamali A. There go little thing for our Welsh listeners there. And if that isn't enough, if that isn't enough, then Max Kady himself, Javier Bardem is on the podcast this week talking to me about murdering people That was incred whoo was that from? That was from my friend Gav, who is of the Welsh persersuasion. Is that the thing that was making you laugh like a hyena? Yes. Oh my God. That was the thing that was making me laugh. I mean There's more to come. There's more to come. I hope so. Yeah if that was it, then frankly. Wow. Are you been mirching that? This's the first time weet to do Welsh James twenty minute. we were in we've been here for twenty minutes watching you hy hysterics. And Jane and boy I' like is What is going on? Is he broken? What's happened? Well and it's just Wel It's just Welsh. But to be fair, so this comes from the fact that the light in the hall, Colon Stillwaters, which is as you know, a Welsh dramaes, has a Welsh title. And I felt that I needed to read it out on this podcast. I took one look it went, you've got to be fucking joking, what is that old weird little circflex accent? I can't even begin to know how to say this So I dropped my friend Gav a line and said, Gav How do I pronounce this? And so he actually recorded an introduction to the podcast in Welsh form me. I'm so impressed with Gab. Can you just have a go at saying it though, G on? No, no. But we'll get it. I am going to have a go at saying the title of the show later on because goodlins every It's going be a We're about to lose all of our Welsh Ch. Remember we've remember what was the impression you did the other week and we were like Oh my Godd, someone from the Son. Oh, Mrter Burnd. Yes. Oh go, yeah. That was C show in the room I'm glad, by the way, can you just say I'm very glad that you've taken the time to decorate the studio Yeah with the flags of all the nations that are taking part in the World Cup twenty twenty six. I came in here early this morning to hang all of this bunting around the room, I'm not sure if you can see on the camera. It's pretty a few little Be because you're such a football fan. Yeah because I am. Who do you think's going to win the World Cup James? Arsenal. Good ans. Only because I listen to Boyd an awful lot. Anyway. I'm James Viller and welcome to Finer TV.,'re ential guide to every show that matters. And with me this week are Foy Hilton and Steph Cealen You don't have to say that in Wells, How how you B? It looked like you were checking your phone toceive my name. Boyhxt not. Boyhil St Ste Stephanie. Stephanie. Stehie Yilan, we should say that the World Cup not only is encroacing on the studio, but is encroacing on all of our lives, which is why we're only doing two shows this week.. Because every single show seems to be running scared of the World Cup or they're running scared of HBO's dragons It's one or the other. Yeah maybe it's a bit by. Only the Welsh are standing strong and refusing to back down. Only the Welsh have got them the Welh have saved us. That's right. Not for the first time. No,'s true. Yeah, it's true. Well, you wait though. This is in the kind of okay period The World Cup would have started by the time List ss listen to this. It starts as we're recording it tomorrow on Thursday with the only ceremony in Mexico City and then the games got underway and there would have been like handful of games by the time this comes out on Monday. and I frankly, my entire life will have been taken over by the World Cup. Although timing wise it's pretty good they start about eight o'clock ' the earliest you get from the games. Okay that's And then some of them start one, two, three, four, five AM. So some of the yeah, it's quite have to do with that That' quite issue. Anyay what I say? I like this whole I't have You were saying it's not it's not so bad now. I think what you It's not so bad now, but it's going to waitntil Thank you. You just wait until Wimbledon starts. Yeah. And you have at the same time the World Cup and Wimbledon. hours and hours and hours of of main stream TV devoted to sports or live sport And in somewhere in all of that, a few brave outlets, streaming services or whatever, have got some new stuff. I've looked ahead and I think there's like one crisis week like at the moment where I don't know what we're going to film. We should just do rewatchers. Maybe Yeah, anyway, Yeahah, we'll have a meing about there. we'll sort it out. we' send this to the Yellowstone podcast's what were do. Oh God. to watch Listen. boy, do you really need to be more supportive of our yellow era I'm enjoying your Yellow stone era, by the way. let's not yeah, let's not say yellow era, That's different You missed a bit on pilot pllusboyy, by the way, where I got my own back on Steph. Oh Yeah, You did. Isn't that right, Steph? Yeah, he's a mass Okay, obbviously everyone's waiting with ba of breath to hear about this, but Right. So last week, when I had to write James a quick apology to say that I had gone ahead and I'd watched some episodes of a season that we had agreed not to watch, o? I'd watched five episodes of season four. You did. He put me out there on social media and as a betrayer Right. Then when we get to our spoiler special We get to the Dutton branch, pilot the Dutton Branch. and this massive shit over here has not only watched the whole of season three, he'd watched the whole of season four Did you know how many hours of television that is? twenty. And he did it just to have the smug look on his face. That's what he said to me. I don't know why he bothered because he's got the smug. It's true. It's it was it was. What's the difference? Well, I figured I was thinking, what would Beth do really? was what I was thinking. What would Beth Dutton do? And I' tell you this, when she goes for revenge, she goes cold so Wellfortunately. Yeah, I'm six episodes into to season four. Oh I vaguely remember that. Okay. Yeah, I'm gonna finish it before you. I'm just I'm gonna finish it. If I have to I enjoy this twenty four hours, I'm gonna to finish Yellowstone obsession with two it means I just can just like I'll just sit back and wash it and not getolved. it's fantastic. Yeah lovely little break As indeed happened on Pilot Pus Yeah, because you weren't even there for the whole Yellowstone bit exactly. Yeah. spoiler alert. Yeah. it's magical We're not sure if people are loving it or not. No. mag people are unhappy. It magical It's unclear if anyone wants us to be doing this, but we've decided to do it any. There will only be one more, we should say, there is one to. I mean, I do want to do you know Rips ten you know best scenes and then best bestc scenes haven't you then going So haven't you then when you finished Yellison, have you then got all the fifteen eighteen eighty three, nineteen twenty three and why Marshallals Dch Dut Banch Yeah that's why we've had to call it the Dutton branch because it now is on its own We'll probably have to get a new logo. ye I mean, look, this is the what we've been watching section. I watched twenty hours of Yellowstone. There was almost nothing else I could fit in. To the point where genuinely at this point, I feel I'm going slightly around the bend where I'm trying to plan a holiday at the moment, a rare holiday. And there was a part me genuinely was Can do some kind of cowboy holiday C I do a thing where I could like wrangle like cattle or like like city slickers? James, you can go and stay on the Yellowstone Ranch. Sut up. I sweat I'll shut up. No, because I had it the other day I've got it on my Instaget. You can go and actually go and stay on Ye st. That should be on the Yellowstone Ran. Can I come? Yes, we can do it. Okay. I feel that we could expense that, right Like we can record What's it going to be like? any qu Sure. We can record from the Duton ranch. We should do that. Yeahah, hundred percent. Maybe they'd invite us. Maybe they're listening. Maybe Param P plus our listing Paraman, if you are listening, you to send Steph and I over to the Yellowstone. Oh I're coming as well. Oh you'reing now he's ined. I see. I see. I'm just gonna have a holiday to sit on the ocking chair which there is no doubt one outside There is There are verandah You'll ever want to show on the miranda. Oh so many, so many things happen on that rocking chair. Oh blessed. That is basically all I have watched though. Now, Steph, you obviously didn't watch as much Yellowstone as me because you showed restraint, whichich meant you had time to watch other things. Would you like to share with us what those other things may have been? O I know I know you've been waiting for this moment. I finished Ted Lasso. Well. What was the verdict then? Right, I think and I'm not sure whether you said this. I think it rallies at the end. I think the last few episodes really, really loved actually how Nate turns out in the end. I liked his redemption. I thought because I didn't like it when he was mean and that almost maybe stopped watching it Okay, so my points are I like the setup at the end of the next season, which is really nice. I'm glad that Keeley doesn't end up with either Jamie Alroy and I thought they did that really well. and she remains kind of this strong and brilliant character because the storyline where there's a leak online and it's her doing something that some people think she shouldn't have done. and I love that storyline I thought it was really good, but I'm so glad she didn't choose one of them and there's that great scene where they sit at the table and they go, we've decided you can choose and have you? So I thought that was handled really well. I think All the tie up of all the stor were great. It doesn't need it doesn't need another season, but I'm very open to it and I welcome it because I'll always watch more Panel Wadingham The other L lockerom Ofil was my favorite episode, which deals with kind of sexuality and sport stuff like I thought that was brilliantly done and very moving. but that's probably that was probably my favourite episode of all of the seasons just thought it was I thought that it was near perfect that episode for me. Yeah, and I liked seeing Jamie's mum. So yeah, there was lots of nice things It's not I didn't. it's not for me when I watched you like shrinking , I love shrinking. I will rewatch it It' the best thing ever. I love shrinking. The fact is there probably wouldn't be shrinking without Ted Lusso because shrinking. Grett Goldstein the creator of Shrinking I think att taint his position of poweres and influence and etcera because he's such a brilliant element of Ted L. I'm not saying But it's interesting that have to take that into account that actually before, you know This is the forerunner in a way, both tonally and in form of it and you know, kind of obviously it's complete different story, but ye ye I just I think the problem for me is the big dip in the middle of these seasons. I think there is a point where I can see people would give up with it, which is the point I nearly gave up, which is a shame because it does rally at the end and I think it's good and my overall feeling is I'm glad I've watched it. I'm not massively excited for the next season, but you know what? I'm open minded to it, but it isn't The episodes ended up being too long. like some of the last episodes like one hour, seven minutes and that's just too long, I think, for me. And obviously, I think it is being affected by you know my venture into the Yellowstone verse, which is so dramatic And as James keeps calling, it's soapy know and addictive. It' set against that, it's not but I finished it because I was like, James won't let me watch any moreore Yellowstone. so I'll finish this And yeah, it was good, it was good. It does rally. We should also mention Anthony Stewart Head He plays Aing Wanninggham's character's ex husband, Illis died last week tragically. which was very, very sad. Buffy, obbviously Rupert Jones from Buffy. Yeah, it's so sad. Yeah, it was only seventy two. He was only seventy two. so sad, it's so sad. Lots of lovely testimonials from people who work with him Yeah Rupera Charles, I met him once at a film premiere. Yeah ' my whole story. He was absolutely lovely as he se. He was great. yeah, he was great. I remember a few times because he was also if you remember, he was played the prrime mininister Little Brain. ye. I didt know that. Yeah. So he had played this kind of very blair blair style Prime Minister he was really he was great in that role, perfectly cast for it. And so you used to see a lot of little Britain recordings and stuff. so So I saw him many times abolute absolutely delightful.ing as I was reading about him, I was reading about why he eventually stopped being kind of series regular and buuffy and it was all to do. we wanted to see his That's right becauseuse he was essentially living in the US and commuting back home to see his family. And then he was like, No, no, this doesn't work for me. Yeah. and obviously he's just was just a delightful man U so yes, that is very sad. The other thing I watched, the other thing where I've started and I'm really hoping it gets better because I wasn't as enamoured with the first episode is because I love the first season of four seasons Now I love Tina Fe Don't you be disissing my four seasons? No, I'm not. I'm not are you now? Listen, I'm not going gonna winllow Yellowstone has addled your brain into thinking that it's better than the four seasons. Yeah, I don't know whether it just didn't hit as hard as the first episode of the first season I don't know. I don't know. It didn't feel as powerful But then you know, as I always say, you can't judge something on the any episode. Yeah, it needs to reintrod reestablish establ honestly it's fantastic. I was just like talking this mning to our colleague Caroline. about it and she loves it. And I was saying, what it's just a really brillant hangout show, you're hanging out with these characters And I thinks funny you mentioned it because I was going to mention it. I love it. I'm loving it. the second I think it's better than the first. I Is this one of those shows where the more you know the characters And the different stakes that they have and they their different desires and needs and all of that and their sense of humor eff the better it gets is to be like an old school sitcom meets You know, as in like you where after five or six seasons of a really great show, you love the character so much. I think it's already doing that for me, like even just two yearsies in because it's so I think it's so well written and and acted by by all of them, you know, it's I mean, I've I've missing Coleman. I've been missing Coman domingo, so I'm pleased to see him. Yeah. yeah, you you Dingo who is so great in this and is ll it in and I'm bring a film into it. Do it. Steven Spielberg film U It's gl day. Isn't he fantastic? and you've seen good. He's just I think he's one of the I think he's almost I know he's highly rated, but he can do like serious soulful in Disclosure Day and he can do fun lovingust his range is extraordinary. Oh I listen to this I listen to him give an interview and talk about his mother and how when he was you know young and he was struggling and his m would write letters to people like Oprah and she'd say things to him like his mum's called Edith and say, God if I'm going to write a letter to Oprah because you know what she met you, she would love you. And you know what, if Steven Spielberg met you, God, theyd just love you. And he talked about how impactful his mother saying those kinds of things, and he's like, and now, look at me, all these people are in my life. And isn't that incredible? And They both went to that pub quiz thing where they did Yeah by Redio One Ty Plum. Yeah. I wasn't invtited, furious Were you there? Jim? I was not there. No. Were you invited? I was not invited, No, I don't get invited I hold Aly personally responsible for. Yeah.. What a great moment that must have been anywhay. We digress. But Colvin Domingo, brilliant, Tina Fey, fantastic, everyveryone else, brilliant Okay, I'm going gonna retract my think Yeah justust full retraction, please. I I think you really like it. The more you watch of the four seasons, I think you really like it. Okay James would like it as well It's. James won't like it. James, one hundred percent I like it. You won't. And in he's, I don't know why He's gone into the world of heightened Western drama. Yeah. I have soap. That's true. So he can't come back now because there aren't en horses in. Everything else feels is gonna to feel a little, you know Yeah, true. Okay, forget, I'll take it back. Don't watch it.t Don't sully. fourour seasons with your pres.'s fine. We don't need you Yeah I need a step I've decided I need a st. Oh my st. I love that. You know you're doing a photo shoot this after? That's true. We time to bring out the sts. I'm going get a stat st in time for the photohoot. Okay, you are limited to watching one season a week of Yellowstone, okay? You' get season. because you watched two seasons in one week. it was bad Ads b. I think it has. Well there's only one season left so that'll be fine Yeah, okay. All right D deffinitely do the madicon as well. But we'll discuss that later. Okay. Right. okay. Bdy. Yes. Well, I want to mention rivals. ye I touched upon in Pilot pllus, but everyone who watches rivals will have been reeling after the midseason finale that aired last week. episode six. Yeah. Not going to spoil it, but it was absolutely fantastically. So this is they did this really special unusual thing, Rufus, our friend end of the pod showed a shot of the script And the script they did a read throughrough for each episode of a TV show. And they did at the readrough they didn't give the cast, the creators didn't give the cast the scripts to read in advance. So they went in cold. so they didn't know what was going to happen. They do that C of Res in this episode, which is very new first time they've done it certainly in for this show The impact so the impact of what happens in it, it was there raw a raw occurrence for the cars having to doal with. But it's a fantasticically well handled episode. And hopefully I'll be getting into it with Kay because youT two losers. I' so obsessed withood a bloody Western show. that You can say them no. He can't the other stone. He can't even say that no he No, can't bring himself that's infuriating me. No Kate watching it isn't K of coursese iss watching it. Of course' a devotee of the show of rivals, But it is the best episode of rivals so far, the midseason finale. Okay. And we'll discussing the series so far's on this massive break. We discussed this a bit by the, which just to say is really irritating. It's not com back uill November That's dily actually deranged. It is deranged. Yeah. So there's that there's rivals. then there's tipo. I just want to mention, which obviously've been mentioning in every podcast because since it arrived two weeks ago. But the final three episodes a just aired. as we were doing this last night was the final one, which I watched for the fourth time, I think, and still is absolutely devastating. It's so moving, it's so powerful, painful, difficult to watch. and it's quite bleak in terms of you know what it's saying about the state of not only the nation but of the world and the rise of bigotry and online just insanity. But it's so brilliantly handled by Russell T. Davis obviously. and Peter Hul the director And all the cast' one of the and the response to it has been phenomenal. I've been looking obviously we're all in different we get different things in our feed, but in my feed anyway, it was dominated last night by people watching it live on channel four and being overwhelmed by how moving and powerful it was. I haven't watched it, but when we just spoke to Empire's creative director about it, he actually couldn't speak. Yeah I said Chris have you watched it and was he put his hand to his chest and he just said can't even didn't he. say I can't There's a lot to do it, but you have to, I think it demands v. I think it's incredibly incredibly well targeted and well honed in the sort of thematic stuff that it covers because I mean we talked about this when we reviewed it, but I think it speaks to to a period of should we say cultural backslide that I think's been quite insidious that maybe we haven't necessarily noticed And this felt like a bit of a wake up call for that, which I thought was questite. that' certainly why. It's a total wake upp call. That's exactly what it is yeah, I think completely. And it's one of B achievements, I think. Russell T Davis Russell T Davis we should say, and obviously we've spoiled news or once with a obitry, but we should say Yes. Russell T. Davis. is no longer in charge of the Tardist. No we should get to that. that's the only new story. That is the only new story. So I'll save it for new. I'll save it for. Then I want to mention this is a random one. Brexit a very U I think it's called a very British Civil War, I it' The Unciivil War The Unciivil war When would Benedict come back? No, no, no, no,. this is documentary series. no, don't what this is. This is a new documentary series that is on BBC two running at the moment and he iss all on i player if you want to see. and it's a documentary because I think it's ten years since Brexit Yeah, it's Brexit a very British civil warar. Yeah, which does play on the title of the Cumber Batch drama, to be fair to you. It's on BBC two live Monday at nine o'clock but it's on the iPayer. And this is a documentary about the Brexit, but It's got all the main players involved and it's kind of like it's like a gossip, it's like a gossip fest because of all these people like Nigel Farrage and Borish Johnson and David Cameron and all the people at the heart of the whole thing the psychorama as people keep rightly refer to it. And you just so it's kind of like it's a really fun watch. like unbelievably. Yeah, it's not a dry, boring documentary. It's mainly talking heads revealing stuff they could they never reveal at the time. They never said at the time. And kind of like Basically, there was no plan for what to do after the vote by leave. people They were like, no, it wasn't up to us to decide to come up with a plan. That was up to whoever tok go but hence there was no plan. Suff rememember the was it three hundred fifty million on the bus? That's all Basically Dominic Cummings just told some lucky went, could you just find out for me how much we send to the EU every week? Yeah. And this guy came up with that figure They didn't take into account how much money we got back back rebates and you know, like and how much they spent on us. And he just used the figure just I don't care. I'm using the figure. Some simple sums, or stuff like that or stuff like that I''m on the vers of getting too polis to cut it. Yeah. better not Is anything outrageous are I? Noone that. all But what comes across is all of these people, all the politicians with' labour conservative UKip, they're all as you might be surprised to hear, a bunch of utter twats who are just reveling almost in the stupidity of politics. So but it is very entertaining. and I recommend it. so I've watched that. I know it's off peace, but they go fine It really is ye. I am back on the paradise bus. Oh Oh yees. B. I have a similar problem with my subscription. I've got a whole subscription you' having subscri It nightmare. And so I couldn't I've sorted that out, so I'm back on it and in a weeks some I will be to take part in the V Most related Sil the spepecial. I mean, I ha't watched. It's very good. Okay. That's all I'd say. I mean, it's a bit of a revelation, I know It is excellent.. It's really, really good. Once it gets in the nitty gritty of you' season two, aren't? Because Ive watch season one y. I haven't now way past the middle of season two and all the machinations and all the there's so many plot surprises aren't there, twists and turns throughout. It's really cleverly done so that employs these moments, these shock moments so cleverly, it's good. It don't take me four months to get there, but, I late than ever.'s. Very very busy, very busy. Yeah That's it. That's what I've been watching. That is what we've been watching. Should we have a listener question F yes. Yes. let's do it. So this comes from Philippa and Philipper says, I've just completed Wonder Man. bit late to the party, boy, you'll relate. But I really enjoyed it. And it had a great spin off sidequ episode about the story of Doorman. So my question is what are the best episode examples of a TV series that takes a complete detour r from the regular storytelling narrative, and it might not be immediately obvious the reason for it. It may explore a backstory or introduce a new character, but it's out of the usual setting and requires an entire new cast of characters. Takes a lot for a series to have the confidence to do that and get away with it. Which ones did it best? I believe the last of us did this, although I haven't seen it, or does the West Wing episode of CJ going home to her school reunion that is the episode the Long Goodbye, if you're at all interested in that one. That's an interesting episode because it's one of the ear ones when Sakin was writing them all, but that is not a Sawkin episode. That was written by John Robin Bates, the playwright. And yeah, it's just CJ goes back to her hometown where her dad's got alzheimer's. Is that information just in your head Just like just available in your head immediately Is there literally any West Wing information that I could just' just straight away, you just No we did a mastermind quiz on this podcast for West Wing and I did not get full marks. So I definitely do not have all the West wing information in my head. They boys forgotten it already. Well we did do one. Oh wow, o. But yeah, but that is the worst one. But I would say that's not really that doesn't really count for this I guess CJs in. I mean it is a departure, I would say the one that's more is the Isa An Ismael one, which is the same clast of characters but it takes place almost like in a parallel universe because it happens after nine hundred eleven. So it was Aaron Torkin's response to nine eleven. It is not a great episode for the West Wing. A lot of people don't even consider it part of the West Wing because it doesn't exist within that timeline. Yeah, it was them trying to make sense of this big political event. They didn't feel that they could ignore it, but also it didn't fit in the show. So they did this one off standalone episode. and it was most people hated it. Okay. It was rubbish It's I mean, rubbish is strong. Clunky is Yeah wor. Very unsubtle. like it's yeah, more of a sledgehammer than a stiletto, but yeah.. So right, but we should should we should clarify That's a very complicated question. It is. So bottle episodes are very common things. They normally are like A smaller cast of characters, no guest stars, normally in one location, designed primarily on network television to have a cheap episode. Like if you're gonna have a really expensive finale, you might have a bottle episode midseason or towards the end just to save money, is essentially why you end up doing them. But sometimes bottle episodes are actually really, really great and they force people to be creative. seventeen people, which is almost a bottle episode of West Wing that wasn' done for costs Very small cust of characters in a contained space, one of the bestpisodes of the show. Aron Salkin's favorite episode of the show, I should point out. Anyway sorry, I'll get off the whreing now. w. But what we're talking about here is something slightly different. So what she's talking about is what I kind of always called Philippate, Yes, I've always called them kind of capsle episodes because they're not done for cost, but they're like departures from the norm Like they're in anomaly. that they don't really sit. within the main ch. I mean, they're conected to it, obviously. But so take for example, that random Stranger of Things episode from season two. Remember the one where she fucks off and meets all the And obviously they do come back to that in the final season, spoiler of Stranger Things. But that episode, people like, what the fuck is this? And it felt like and these things can be sometimes, like almost like a soft pilot for something else? Oh's like is it like when Jimmy's gone to the four sixtyties? literally about to say Jimmy has gone to the four sixties and it feels like feels like they're setting Jimmy up for a whole other show. I mean, that's literally what they were doing. Yes, the four six' ranch in Texas. where Jimmy goes there and they set it up and you know what? they were going to do this four six is spinoff, but It's been in limbo for ages and the actor playays Jimmy doesn't know if it's actually happening or not now. Here's a fact about the f sixies ranch. You know that Taylorheridan fucking bought that ranch. Of course he bought that ranch He didn't. Anyway, that's a whole other thing. We' talk about that on pilot plass. Get off yellownow. Get off yellownow. We're talking about That kind of thing. We're talking about the Last of U, which is season one episode three, long, long time. Okay, which is the one we're You know, it's Murray Bartlet and Nickoffemman and, you know, the love story. Okay Oh that yeah. actually have seen Really Paradise season two episode one, I think is it completely dives into a whole new setting, a whole bunch of characters that we weren't in season one. fucking bold thing to do for a first episode of a second season So essentially you have a complete departure. Totally different cast. abbsolutely wild But its but to do these, I would say boy, from your point of view, do you remember the leftovers episode International Assassin? Yeah. Yeah. That's I mean, obviously it's still it's still Garvey, but it is a complete departure. from the rest of the show. Yes. So I think that probably qualifies even if it's not a completely new cast in that one Yeah, I mean there are some episodes that are very famous for being complete sidesteps from like Bink, the Doctor episode of which the Doctor really isn't in it. And not is the companion? It's a complete new character. withith the weeping Angel. withith the weeping Angels is Both a bottle episode in a way and a capt and a capt episode. Yeah. because you could completely take that out of the canon of Doctor Who it would not be affected at all. the ongoing mythology of Doctor Who, if you like. So yeah, that's an example. Okay, sorry because right, so I've had to do a little Google. Okay. So it's saying here that Seinfeld, right, the Chinese restaurant episode. you I'm not allowed to talk about Seinfeld. No he's not the same way. he's not allowed about episode not a captu. Although he has talked about thee already in this discussion so fair enough. And' norm banned from talking about friends as well. the one where they're all getting ready That's a bott epode for. Yeah. That's what' saying here. and fly from Breaking Bad, where they're trying to catch that fly, which is a great episode. And they're just in the Mh lab. Absolutely they an episode. Okay. so a bottle episode is where they're contained, like in Parks Mec. I know I talk about Parks and Rec aock, where Leslie and Ron they get trapped in the office and's But that's kind of like you say, that's probably a cost saving thing because it's just a one scene Yeah. That's a bottle Yeah.'st And a captred episode is where they're taking they're being taken out Yeah, kind of where it's like it's like aird it's like a side quest. It's like a side quest episode. So lost And l's an odd one because lost's whole structure was often doing kind of backstories of characters. But there were three that sprung to mind for me from Lost. There was Ab Eterno, which is the Nestor Carbono one, you know who plays Richard And it was his backstory. and it begins in eighteen sixty seven, so that's a wild one. I really liked Mr. Echo's backstory one But again, that's just a fabric. I'm not sure you can count that because that's just the fabric of the show. becauseuse you would often have those flashback ones, but that was a really good one. And do you remember the constant, which was the Desmond when he becomes unmoored in time? Remember that he keeps copppping through time That's a really good episode the big Desmond episode. That's kind of a bit of a side quest. I thought that was a good one. Well, cucumber, talking of Russell T. Davis, episode six of cucumber. was a real was a real bold idea because that it gives you the back background of Cyril Eenry's character. But the whole episode is suddenly devoted to him and his whole story. So his whole life story is told in this one episode. I think that iss an example of what we're talking about, I think. Would we say that okay, so I know Gary is like a one off event, but that feels I'm just trying to understand the difference between b and capatchle. This look kind. that feels like capapsule episode. That would kind of be a capch le and the bear does this a few times before it does have capt les. But you could argue that Fawkes was almost one because it was a side quest for Richie, the one where with Will Poualter is a kind of a side quest as well. the bear does side quest quite regularly. I know Fish is kind of bear almost has so. In fact, all of those episodes are the best episodes. they're all great. they are all great love it when they introduce Will Porter I will produced Brilliance. Do you know what? it's not I don't think it qualifies as this from a narrative or character point of view. But did you ever watch Barry? Yes.. Oh no I've never watched that, but people say it's very well. arguably my favorite episode of that is the Ronnie Lilly episode, which isn't It's only a capsule in that almost like tonally it is at odds with the whole rest of the series where he goes to kill this guy and this guy turns out to be a martial artist, and so he wasn't expecting that. But then the guy's young daughter's like this fucking feral monster who's like jumping on car rooutes. It's like she's supernatural. And you're just watching, you're going, what is even happening? L it's such a mad episode of television, but it's so much fun. I absolutely adored it I'm going to mention again, and I don't think this qualifies for any of them, but I am going to mention again one of my favorite ever crossover episodes, which takes both people out of their comfort zone, which is or their home, which is Magnum Iice on Iice, where Magnum PI and Jessica Fletcher come together in a separate location to solve a crime So I'm saying that kind of qualifies in a way because they get taken out. Yeah. And you might have to be banned from talking about Jesicif F Yeah. We're banned from talking about friends Seimfeld and Kirb And the Westw. that's like she's a legend. And I'm like, okay, all right. I'm gonna I won't mention her for like maybe three episodes. three I don't think crosssover episodes do count. But that's taking people out of their it's different crossover episodes are different from Okay. You could do. done we must have done that at some point. crosssoverp Yeah Yeah. I mean, they're rarely that good, are't they? No There are dis. They don't tend to work out that's true. There's like a whole season of murdery rate where Jessic You know gets removed from Cabot CoV and goes to the city and gets an actual computer. Yeah I feel like that's that no, no. Murder she emailed. Murder she emailed exactly. Wow. I'm gonna stop talking about that. Yeah, let's move on. That was this explistic question. If you would like to have your question considered for abuse by Steh, then please do send them in. It is post Bag at Pilot TV Pod . com Sorry Pilipp, I feel like have answer that we haven't answered. No, I haven' answered that questionilip. It'll be okay. You are have remiss. I'm sorry Philippa Right, I believe it is time for this week's guest. We we have this weeks gues? I think we shall. And it is a man who is absolutely terrifying on screen. that is in person, he's actually quite lovely. It is Javier Bardem portray of some of cinema's most chilling villains from Anton Chager, Pablo Escobar, Captain Salazar, and of course, Raul Silver, The greatest great Bond villain, isn't that right, Steph? He is the greatest Bond villain. And if you listen to Plush, you'll hear me get quite upset with a listener who says he's not the greatest Bond villain. That's right. Yeah. Gy you are. He is currently terrorizing us as Max Cady in Apple TV's adaptation of Cape Fear and I dialed in to talk to him all about it. Yeah. Exciting Yeah. It was good. It was good. It was fun to talk to. There was a little bit of confusion between Sideshow Bob and Bob De Niro, but other than that, this sounds very well. This sounds good al. I feel sick about. excited about this. Yeah. It's fine. I talk very quickly. Okay, that's true. Because there was a Simpsons parody of get into why I brought it up Yes. I did I brought it take Sideshow Bob very exc yeah, o It may have landed quite as I'd it. It That's one of my favoritepisodes of Simpson. That is one of the episodes of Simpson ever. The Cpeir one. Yeah Anyway, this is me talking to Javier Bardim Havio, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for joining us have to be said, another genuinely terrifying performance from you in this And a thought occurred to me while watching this was that no one does these kind of characters quite like you do, which I guess is a compliment. so you know that's great But seriously like you do have a nat for getting under the skin of these kind of characters. kind of I remember someone telling me once that the key to playing a great villain is that every villain on some level thinks they're the hero of the story. And would you agree with that Absolutely. never heard that and it's a great quote and thank you because I'm taking it from now on. I'm sorry. It's a great absolutely They feel they are the star of the show and it's all about them and it's all about their needs of revenge, vengeance, or yes, or whatever that is and whatever they're looking for. in the case of no country for Men u T Sugar is He was just U They a soldier of fate of somebody else's fate and he didn't have any purpose Personally, he was just it was just an accident to occur out I think the good part of those roles is to enjoy them because most of the times are way more complex and way more fun to play than the hero hero is one piece of the man or a woman where the village you can go as far as you want because you know people are going to accept it. The thing with heroes is they're always reacting to events. whereereas the antagonist is the one driving the narrative. They're the on's actually doing things, so they're inherently more interesting to play with, right Exactly. And for example, in this show, Amy and Amy Adams and Patrick that they both are doing a fantastic job. It's true that I was Always feeling very overwhelmed by the quality as an artist by exactly what you just mentioned, how Amazingly and differently, they reacted to the pressure of Mascading for ten hours, which is a lot of time to take that tension I'm not letting go while at the same time playing it in different tones M. I was like, wow, how do you do that? Because that's hard to maintain. It's easier to just do Well it done receive. Yeah, I mean, I think you've said the past in terms of the intensity, that you kind of almost like go somewhere else when you play these characters. It's like you leave your body and you inhabit them. And that sometimes when you're talking to people that you know, they're like, who are you right now? it feels like you carry some of your characters with you. And Max Ky is a very intense guy to be playing for that period of time Is that someone that you carried around with you during the whole time you were making it Not really. I mean, I'm fifty seven years old and I've never been that kind of actor that will carry the thing with him around. I mean no, when I was twenty. mayaybe I thought that was the good thing to do because the Nurum chino blah, blah blah brando is like. But I tri like a couple of times and it was like, this is exhausting. And as somebody else has said If I keep on doing that, maybe I play my best scene on the craft serving stable.'s not running. I don't want to do that. I understand people that need to be there twenty four seven. I got it. and I'm always saying the same. As long as your process don't interfere with my process, you're free to go. But sometimes those processes can be very uncomfortable for other fellow actors or crew And that's the part that I got. I don't know if If that's okay because that's very selfish But. Like in my case, I go there, I Work with great people We had lots of fun. We were laughing a lot. put the stress out and then yeah, some days you go back home and you go, w, that was intense and you sleep less or you sleep more with yourite dreams or whatever. But mostly you go back to your home and you are with your kids and they don't want to see mas skating. No, they really don't. They w to see dad, which I don't know if it's better or worse mas skating. Is that? Well, something I've heard you mention before is that music plays a big part in your process, that you listen to specific music when you're preparing for a run. I couldn't help noticing recently that you played a fairly large role in the Burning ammbition Iron Maiden documentary And I was wondering like was like number of the Beast, Hallllowed be thy name? Was that the kind of stuff that fed into your Maxcady playlist? Absolutely. I just made an interview about a heavy metal magazine or a radio station and we were talking about All I'm a huge metedal fan and I of course made them was there six six six, the number of beast and Hallow it by the name. I mean, Men it's an iconic band that has gone for so many years doing so much good work. And And and now more like contemporary bands like Battlemans Sip knot, falling reverse, adanescence Lincoln Park, which I think' great. There's a them. there's a song on Lincoln Park that I listen very much. It's called upp fromrom the bottom from the last album because it's about a man who's really trying to go up from the bottom from his own ashes and he feel he feels betrayed. And I go, okay, this makes me feel something inside. It's funny because it puts me in an energy that is very active, like the metal makes me go like active. And at the same time you have to restrain that. You have ten hours express that attitude. So you cannot You cannot be on that You have to go slow. Yeah. Well here's an ironmaiden fact with you. Bruce Stickinson, who you may or may not know, was a competitive fencer. He used to teach me fencing at my school. Wow ye fen Bruce Stickinson. Wow, that's pretty cool history, right? Yeah, ye, hundred. He pilots planes Do I've never flown with him, just fence with him, so. But look, I mean, Mattscady said, fantastic character. I mean, Robert Mitcham, Robert De Niro, but obviously the iconic Kelsey Grammar. how much sideshow Bob did you integrate into your Mattsscady The thing is when I first read it it iss like, I'm not gonna touch that. No. why would I? But then I saw, o tenen hours thirirty years later, the world is a different place. There's a different moment in history. Okay, makes sense Now, if it was a remake of the movie A like pure remake of two hours fature film, I would have never even dared to touch it. But I felt like, okay, this makes sense And then u, I tried to bring the irony of both Midium and D Nro performances into this mascady, which because I think that's a very letal weapon that he very carefully the irony to make you believe that Maybe he's making fun of things or maybe No, maybe he means it. And that's something that is very impressive in both performances. More Bob D Niro less psycho Bob from the Simpsons. Yeah, I get that totally. Exactly. Yeah I' been the Simpsons once with no country for all men ha That's true. Yes, I remember that. Simons man. I made it. But you mentioned that it's really interesting about the mascading this because You know, De Niro's Kie is iconic, but he's a very external character, like he's very much what he presents as on screen. Whereas your Max, there's so much going on beneath the surface. you know, his interiority, we see his childhood, we see maybe what made him, you know, we have an understanding. the way it sets it up, you know, is he wrongly accused? Is he a monster or is he the monster that How six thousand two hundred and twenty two days in prison would make any of us, right Exactly. and that question, Mark, which is very important to Tom to have in the show lasts The whole show until the end, would you have an answer or would you may not And that's a great that's a good part of the show, which is like There are many, many grays in every character, many ables, many contradictions. and and that makes you feel unase and insecure about while you're watching. like you don't know there's a moment in the show where you don't know anymore who is who and what is what. And that's different from the take of the movies where you know there's a villain and there's a hero Here is like, Ohh, what's going on? which is more relable to our times where What is the truth? Where is the truth? How do we get to the truth of things? What is the manipulation of the facts? What do we do with the information to manipulate people's will? through technology. I mean, that's so pressent that This this's kind of a sensation of u of instability that is very scary the show very much so. Well I've got to let you go. So the last question I would ask you is this and that's, you know watching the Scorseseia film like it has a very distinctive feel to it. It's like a woozy feel. I think it's been described as, you know like a nightmare swampy vibe. And there's something that Morton Tilden and Nickanska have done here, which is almost similar. but just the visuals of it where it's hypper saturated and hyper real and it doesn't feel quite like reality, especially has to we said those really vivid contact lenses that you have in this, which makes Katie look almost demonic. And I wondered like how much of that was you because you've worn a lot of lenses and a lot of the roles that you've played, L was that your idea to have him look like that. Absolutely. when I first read it and I saw that there was a panther involved, and go, that's an idea. That panther, that animal, that Bay the turt takes his time's a slow, beautiful beautiful animal that you will be like looking for forever because he's such a beautiful creature to look at but then boom He will jump on you. And we went for that I mean, that was an inspiration for us to create a look And the contact lenses is an accident because I wanted to have those kind of predator Paner ey cololar, but then in in the camera test I Two contact lenses by mistake. One was smaller, one was bigger, different colors and We came out of the test and we go, o shit, I put it wrk. But then I look at myself in the mirror and say, well, this makes sense because he has this Wound in the head And then we make some research and it will be logical that one of the eyes, especially this eye, if the one was on the left side, will be like delated and So it was like, oh, that makes sense and it's kind of uncomfortable to look at And I thought, let's go with it. And Nick was brave enough to say, let's go because it's ten hours. like Let's think about it. No, let's go. let's go. I think it makes sense So and that helped me to kind of put distance with what I'm portraying. because then you take out the lenses and it's like, okay, I way back home. It's incredibly effective. Well Havi, thanks so much. It's a great show. Re reallyally enjoyed it. Thank you That's Javier Badem. it is time now for this week's news and we begin with, let's be honest, the only news story this week Well Oh, how no Oh do we not? No no, no I'm saying well it's aomb show. Yeah. Oh ye, I think you I say Well, I'other news,' broken. No, but only just broke. Luckily for us. It did. This could we could have recorded the podcast first this morning and missed this gargantuan giant news. Yeah. But' literally just broken within the last couple of hours. It has, whichich is that Russe D Davis is saying goodbye to doctor who as his Wolf of the Prouction compomany. There's not going to be a Christmas special, which was the plan. C headlines say cancel. Christmas, doctor is cancelled And their Christmas is cancellled. Christmas by doctor Who? Well lots of people because lots of people, you know, quite rightly, you know you know have their day planned around the doctor Who special Well, they do. absutely people. completely right, yeah. And They're putting out a tender, basically, because arere putting out a tender. So, you know, the Different production companies, different different indies et cetera can all bid for their right to run the show. Who do Who do you think? Who do you think's gonna to want it The product which production comping? Oh, I I really don't know. Well I think have has to be quite big one, isn't it? Because it's such a huge effort. to make Doctor Who to write, produce and make Doror Who.'re going have to do something really dramatic with it. I think they're going to do something crazy with it. Do you think they they'll leave it for a while Well, I think I think it's almost being left for a while just purely because logistically logistically already. So if there's no Christmas special There were no scripts for, you know, a fourth, if you like, the third season after the if you can the seasons one and two that Russell T. Davis ran show ran with Disney pllus. So now without Disney pllus money, they pulled out it's down to the BBC to look for partners. I' assuing C you know, American streamers. Yeah. you know, it could be like a Netflix slush you know, whatever deal or all kinds of things are possible. but It's going to take minimum, I'm saying like a year before this all gets sorted out and you know, they sw out the deal, whoever's going to make it. budgets the and then find the showrunner and then find the new doctor quite important. And so I think it's going to be a while. Yeah. So and effectively in answer your question, is it time to take a break whver however you work do? I mean it is effectively taking a break. Yeah So it' it's I think it but Rrel Rusty Davis' statement. was really good. Oh read Yeahah we'll read it. I'll read it It's quite a long. I'll read it. It's not too bad. And so goodbye from me to doror Who, but hello to a big new future for the show. As the BBC announces it's putting the show out to tender, as a result, there won't be a Christmas special. We only cooked that up to guarantee a future when no one knew what would happen. So this is the final series ended with Billy Piper being revealed as the Doctor. And now basically, what Russell' saying is they can do whatever they want with that. They can ignore it completely. they could come up with, they could ask her to do our series. I'm just throwing out different possibilities. you know I'm not saying any of these are going to happen. but he's completely I think it's the right thing to do Rather than get bogged down in, you know doing an episode somehow with her and explaining what happened from Russell's point of view, it's all changed now and everything' the whole thing re gets a revamped and they can do what they want with that final moment featuring Billy Piper. Anyway, he carries on. but now we know there's no need for it, . e that extra episode. You'll have to wait a bit longer for new doctor Who, but you'll be waiting for more doctor Who than a one off, so it's worth it. For the record, there was no script. I never wrote it because A been stories that you know he's finished the script or was not true and no actor was ever approached to play the next doctor You may disagree, fine, sit in that chair and wait to be proved right. You'll wait a long time. This is class wrestle by the way,n cross. Yeah. You'll be waiting a long time, he says. Now I'm as excited as anyone to see what comes next. Will they keep the theme tuned? Will they lose the blue box? Will they bring back the draf in? It's all up for grabs, which is so doctor Who, exciting and unpredictable and new Here comes the future of warp warp Wow. So u I think it's exciting. Question. Yes. In your dream Hoovian world, right? Yeah Who would be the next doctor? and where Give us kind of an idea of what you think would be the direction if you were in charge that you would take this in now. Kelly Reiley. . That is an appsolutely fantastic Kenvy Riley. S sorry for the bad language, but that was a yes. Kenvy Reiley Asbeth Dutton. Yeah, that's. Asbeth Dutton has the doctor. Yes. Okay. ye. The doctor suddenly transformers into Beth Dutton brilliant actress that woman is amazing. We have to get her on. I know you've had her on front stmarch, but we have to go.ath wants to talk So I can become a less friend. I'm sure she should do it. Yeah. She's very friendly. Yeah. We need to get better resations. Well shes wonderful. Yeah, she was fantastic. Yeah. The two of them together were brilliant. H and Rife R Rpool. Yeah, than you.. Yeah, no, Rife would be good, doctor doct. Rafe would be a great doctor. Yeah. Yeah. It had been mentioned before. Has it? ye by me probably. yeah I think he would really. But I'm so up for Rafe. I you know Well, I'd like it to go, personally There's been the doctors got younger and younger in the last couple. you know, Jodie Whitak because Shuty was the youngest, you know, I'd go back to a little grumpy old man I think Peter Capaldi, who got a lot of stick from certain quarters, who I think were completely wrong by the way, for making the making Doctor who along with Stephen Moffet was the showrun at the time. People complained that it was too grumpy and it was a bit too, you know it should be lighter. but he was he was core of some of the greatest episodes of Doror Who of recent times. And I thought he was absolutely perfect for Dr. I you know what we've seen him in since he's such a brilliant actor. I think someone of that stature you know, back to a kind of older, more more I don't know, dignified, a kind of oozing dignity, an oozing kind of char charisma That's the direction I would go, but that's probably not the direction I'd go because it's probably commercial suicide to have an old man an old white man as the doctor. But I would yeah, I would look know someone I mean, this is talking dream territory, but he was this is actor I'm about to name was was rumored to have been wanted to be doctor back in the day Hugh Rrant I you know, something like that. Speaking of oldld Grumpy, exactly. Old Grumpy guys, yeah So can you ever envision a world where Hugh Grant would do that? No.. But you know. But I'm talking about that kind of Cona Yeah Yeah of a kind of yeah, intrinsically by key older guy Yeahah, I don't know. Lenny James I think Leny James would be good. James is a great shout. Yeah. What can't I can't remember his name, that amazing actor that's in a legend and does the holiday Granger. Tom Burke sorry. Yeah. Tom Bur would be kind of off kilter vibe to him Yeah, he's very good. I mean it's going on all day. I know sorry I've asked your. I've now decided to answer myself. James, do you have a shout? I've alreadyiven you my shout. You haven't it's bloody gry. Well done. Yeah stick you with that I am. Okay. Okay, fair enough. Right. Is there any other news? Yes, of course there's other news. I mean, not as well, I don't know,s I think do you know who'd be really excited about this news Tarbero, we are very excited. Edward Blueail, am I saying his name correctly? I think Blell is going to play Pirro in new BBC series Acle Okay. And this series is looking at the manan Okill. they're describing it as an epic portrait of Britain between the Wars The series takes a magnifying glass to three of Christie's most celebrated stories while also charting Erkill's burgeoning friendship with Captain Arthur Hastings, his early encounters with Scotland Yards, James Jpp, and introducing him to one particular nemesis. So this is going start filming this summer in Liverpool Oh, it's very exciting I think's really good idea because I do too. Yeah, if you're going to do you if you're going to bring back these characters and they're never not going to be brought back you know because why wouldn't we because they're out of copyright? Is out copyright?act too a large extent. I mean, they're chasing behind, aren't they? Sherlock Holes' got so many projects now that have been announced recently. Moriarti's being done, isn't it? young show that we had already and there's a lot of Sherlocks happening or Sherlocks spinoff. So it's inevitable you'd have a new K Pirro, but to make it a young but not to not like a k YA Yeah. But he's I think it's a good move and he's I think he's so we're sure it's not YA Paro. We're not I' pretty I don't think it' Y. I don't think is. No. because he's not that young. How old is he? No, he's not that young. He's thirty three, you know, he's not he's not whier snapper, isn't it? He's a grown adult. And I think that period yeah A young girl Young girl Yeah. sounds weird, doesnn't it? version of Parot than the actual youth one is totally makes sense. I think the people behind it are Leslie Manville, the absolute legend that is Leslie Manville, have you So in November, this show, this comedy Escorted was announced. It's with Brett Goldstein and she is going to start alongside Brett in this Amazon Prime comedy series, which is gonna be brilliant. This is gonna be eight episodes and the premise is, have you heard about this Okay, so the premise is Goldstin's a divorced dad in Manhattan and he accidentally becomes a male escort Yeah, which to me sounds really sound sounds great. And she's going to play, I think she's playing his mum a bit yeah, okay Terry is a force of nature. Yeah. so that's great. Lesly Manvill is amazing. Obviously everything,re Goldstein touch literally turns to gold because he's incredible And James, you'll be excited about this, right So you know how much you love brothers and sisters? Oh abbsolutely. Yeah, so brothers and sisters, so Matthew Reese has said That He really wants to do a special, a brothers and sisters special, right? Yeah, yes. And he is in talks with Dave and. He's not given up on it. He wants a holiday special of brothers and sisters to happen. So that could soon be happening. that someone wants it. Okay I want it. And also obviously Matthew Reese currently starring in The Wonder that is Widows Bay, which James is committed to watching so we can have a sport My favorite show. Yeah We do a sps fial hopefully when it Definitely. Netflix has confirmed a return date for Lupin Oh I love Lupin. Nice. I missed it. And you know, it's been a long time since Lupin was shining our lives, brightening up my life and enlivening our lives however. It's a fantastic show. It's going to be returning on october the twenty third twenty twenty six. So not as far away as rivals. So Im mean When is rivals again? November November that is m wild. That natur wild There were two trailers this week. Oh was a new trailer for the bad. Did you watch this? Oh I haven't seen the I have It's very exciting. Unfortunately, ye. I've used it as a basis for my preview in Heat magazine. Carmi seems surprisingly involved in the restaurant for something. I he quit at the end of last season he quit. he's handed it over. Can you imagine like doing how many episodes areisod him mooching around Chicago? it was just doing other do my life. It was a bit like, you know, they're having that conversation and she's like, no and you know the end obviously I can't say what the end of the No Yeah You know, then what happens in Gary and it kind of sets up the whole season five, doesn't it? It does. I haven't I love' M watch G. You've watched G No. Oh my god no. Does it really serve them? That's a fashback moneyes but it's not but it has an epilogue, an epilogue which sets up the does set out. you're going to have to watch. Oh, you should watch it so good. Oh I'll watcheady. Watch that before you watch An moreore Paradise because o way you're scheduling m. Yeahah that's it. That is I am now in charge of you. and that's why I want you to go Excellent. There was a trailer for Lucky with Annie Tella J Bening, which is one of Apple's new shows. I may or may not have watched every episode of that. They may or may not have had an on stage session at the Santa Monica Apple event with those very people there talking about that very show. and it looked really good. Yeah, it is good. A spoiler. sppoiler for the embargo. it is good. The ads are really good anyway. I trails. You know when they send out those things and they're like, you cannot talk about this but I feel like That's if you don't like it. If you like it, you shouldly can. I think I can say that I liked it. because also, it's inferred, isn't it? Like I watched every episode of it. If I'd hated it, I would' have stopped after one. I asked you to do a hate watch. That's true. I have done that before. you'd be surprised actually. I have written very positive Reviews that should not have been reviewed should have been previews in the world of these things Yeah embargo break accidentally, by the way, never deliberately I never deliately bak an embgo unlike certain other publications I could mention the Guardian G Yeah. with you. it's pureompetence. exactly. Exactly. It's pure inc compompetence. And I have had complaints from certain quite rightly because I've accidentally broken embargo and it could be a glowing thing there yeah, but you shouldn't have done that because everyone else gets annoyed If everyone's sticking to the fucking embargo and you don't even with your glowing five star review, it's still breaking the rules. Well, I think I also think people don't, readers don't necessarily understand the difference between a review and a preview. I know. And I think that's where the difficulty lies. That's true. One being where you haven't really seen it and you're just kind of guessing at whether it's that good or not. Wish James always finds hilarious Be we give star ratings in heat to sporting events, which he finds absolutely honestly insane. Yeah. But what I'm saying is like when, you know, when Scotland played Person of the World Cup Whenever that happens, that's a huge event. That's a five star event. You don't know you haven't seen the match. No, I know. I'm not judging the match. I'm judging the event. You're honestly you become the y of the very concept of a star ritating. It is obsive I kind of agree with you actually, James. That is Thank you D. you give star ratinging supporting events previews of things that crually have not yet no. if I do if it's a preview something I haven'ten we then wed put preview, and we don't put storish. hang on When you do a preview and you do post star rating What does that mean U I mean I've seen it and I'm allowed to give it a star rating for by the He plays by the rules. In a crime monthly we we have crime scenes.. Do you give crimes a star rating? This is a for star crime No, we would not do that. We give crime shows because we exclusively do crime and you know we do a lot of Boyd does you know whenever he does a crime show, we're like, can we put that in? And so we do give star ratings to previews actually Yeah. honestly, I can't, I'm not sure I can speak to either of you every I'm sorry butree I do agree with you about the sporting event thing because that's a giving a star rating to something which is going to be a live event that hasn't happened. I don't just yeah, it makes a mockery of all reviewing Yeah a mockery. Yeah okay I'm sort I'm half. I'm with news now. you'veus're ruin news We're finished. Right. Okay, we're done. Let's move on to this week's reviews. twowo of them, as we have them. And first up this week we have the light in the hall, Con still waters This is in fact the second series of The Light in the Hall, because the first one aired in twenty two. it's saw a reporter investigating the case of a missing girl from eighteen years previously. This second series, however, is an all new case. so you don't need to have seen the first one, and it looks at the bombing of a reservoir, a murder and a possible frame job. Now, interestingly and I say interestingly, this is genuinely interesting. keepepingaith did this world. you watched keepeing Faith? Yeahes. I cannot remember it at all. Fine. Well, keepeping faith did this as well. it's a bilingual Welsh drama. They shoot every scene in Welsh and English. And then in English. So back to back. They do the scene once in Welsh, once in English, moveove on. Do you know why? Because the Welsh they' such hard workers. L as a people, just in general, they're fantastic. Well, so they presumably just want to hear in their own language as well, which is entirely reasonable. so the Welsh version of this series but but the Welsh version of this series, than you pointoy aired last September under a title that I one hundred percent did not want to mangle. So this is why I dropped my friend Gavaline and asked him for the correct pronunciation. the correct pronunciation of The light in the hall still waters is Okay, James, this is how you pronounce the name of that Ty program Gall I door Gali T work Okay, I'm just gonna to say now. I want to hear you say, please Gav's voice is just generally sexy. Aagoli Dur. Okay. Sounds like it sounds like the black tongue of Mordor Can I just say, is that you're telling me that the whole lengthy the full tit The light in the hall still waters goes down to that A Gody door. So That can't be the light in the hall Y Is that just the light in the Horn? No includes still waters. Oh Glli. is the light in the haor? Colon Dor. No. Yeah. Oh my God. God the Welsh fantastic. Aren't they fantastic? They really are. That's three words. Yeah, it's quite short given that the Welsh are famous for incredibly long placementses. Yeah Yeah. It's mad Ierest. Yes, thank you, Gav. That's Gavin Murphy, by the way of RKG. And if if you like From Soft games or games as a whole, to be honest, I highly recommend their channel because they are legendary Games. From Soft games. What? Dark Souls, Eld Ring, Budbourne, all of those? No idea. No. But what's a From Soft? Fr From software is there a game publher game developer they make games They make a very specific type of games. Yeah. Okay, well, I think Gav's got a very sexy voice. He does He does. He's a very sexy bud's voice. Oh God, okay. thanks, Gav U can I Okay, stop it now. o Anway anyway, anyway. So Stwaters marks the debut of the English language version of this. But the question is, was it worth the wait Steph tell us in Welsh? Oh Jesus, o. rightight, The last time I was in Wales with a drama was when I was very, very happy to be in the company of Kelly Rilly and Race Bull,fore mentioned in U Salt Marsh, which Dill is for me, one of the best things I've seen This it was this year wasn't it was this a year. The best was I've seen this year. and the I think I said at the time, that is the way you do crime drama for me. That is absolutely MVP, everything about it was brilliant. storytelling fantastic, mystery was wonderful. And what is always essential to any kind of Welsh drama seemingly is some kind of water problem was some kind of water based issue, right? So le a leaky bit of water. in Andalt Marsh, you remember it was the flooding. It was the floodwaters and everyone was very upset. And there was like a hurricane actually. People were not moving, okay. In this, there's a reservoir problem and people are not moving o. So it seems to be the staple of any kind of Welsh crime drama that has to be a water element. I enjoy that. I didn't watch the original one, the first Aoney Okay, Bordden's going to look at you for this because he's starting to frighten me Right. Yeah I didn't watch I apologise to all Wh people by the way for mangling that. I didn't watch the original, but yeah, this is thoroughly enjoyable. I love the whole purose. she was the detective in the first series et? Sure, I know N She was she was a smaller role in the first series.. Okay. So this is Sar Rese Williams Yeah from Emmaales Exactly. who starred in Emmell. She I mean, she's absolutely fantastic in this. So she stars as so she's a She used to work in a butchers and she's retraining as a journalist. And at the beginning you find out, when she's in one of my most hated things, a therapy session, we find out that someone's offering her a job if she can come up with a good story and that's the whole premise of this prisoner is released who 've been in prison for a murder that he says he did not commit and she wants to investigate that and what happened about that. So that's me telling you about it without giving away any spoilers at all, right Did you say so? Sure Okay, James, if you've watched this, you're looking, okay. All right. Okay, right. So I think and I think I've said this a couple of times before, if underersalt Marsh hadn't existed this year, I would have probably really liked this. I know, but you know when something like a Welsh crime drama, which is a mystery that's also got a water element, it's just it's not Under salt marsh, okay? But yeah, I really I enjoyed it. I'm intrigued about it. It just I didn't find it as captivating as Undersalt Marsh. and that's what I'm measuring it against. Carly I know I' clear measuring against underersalt marsh. I have do because it's so many many someone from Yellowstone. Let's not forget. That is not the reason sure. No, because I always, always loved underndersalt marsh. But I feel like if this had You know, Cole Hauser in it, you'd be one hundred percent behind it If it had Cohauser in it, I think we'd all be ablely behind it. Okay Yeah I know you mean. It it's Uw Marsh was a big budget, you know, kind of Yeah maybe I'm being unfair to it. was Yeah. It was a Sky Atlantic and mine have a machine and yeah, it was a big I really liked it as well. and I think itd probably be it be m you know, the Garden's already doing its best TV shows of the year so far, think so we' have to . Did't we not do it last year because we thought we just wouldn't be. I can't remember. be I got my list started already.. I really liked it as well. And it was a spectacular. it was more spectacle it was more stylish and all of that. Whas I think what I like about this is it has got a long come with it. You're right that's the only reason I'm bringing in the comparison. not maybe it is an unfair comparison. No. There's loads of muddy, watery stuff the vistas and all that kind of you some beautiful by the way. Yeah abs landscapes. But what I like about this is it's different. It's not a simple kind of hooddun it. It's quite complelicte. You don't really necessarily know what the mystery is. I mean, there was this big explosion, which then Lewis Williams' character was held responsible for. but he clearly a lot of people think he wasn't been's been fitted up or he didn't do it. I like it's kind of got a gritty realism to it, I think this show. It's not trying to be flash or particularly spectacular. It's just trying to tell a story with some compelling characters about whom there, you know there are certain elements of mystery. And at the center of it, you've gotean Res Williams, who I think's brilliant to see someone who's she was a supporting role in the first series of this and she's the connected tissue to this And now she's the lead as she's trying to become a ch she's trying to change her life and become do something completely new become a journalist and investigate this case. which about him, he was he spent time in jail for this alleged crime of exploding this mining area. but I really like the fact that she the she's the lead girl because she's great in everything she ever does. She's been in Hidden, she was in Hinterland.'s brilliant Mark Louis Jones, is brilliant everything. He's got this real kind of like and lived in kind of grizzled old guy quality to him, which I think is which I really enjoy.'s weered weather's thank you. Yes, he's weathered. that's the word for it. He's brilliant in everything. He was in this thing the accident, I don't know if you remember with Sarah Lancashire and he turned out to be a complete roonger in that and he was very powerful and kind of horrible in that show. Anyway, he's great in everything. I think the whole cast is really good. like the younger members of the cast who play these kind activists The whole idea of you, activism complaining about environmental exploitation is dealt with, but not in with a quite a light touch, It doesn't feel like it's like sledgehammer dealing with environmental issues, etcetera. So I above and beyond above and Beyond everything, I believed in the characters. I thought they were very well drawn and I thought the dialogue was clever. She has this kind of date, right? right the beginning well because with a kind of dobbe guy who But thought was I thought that was clever because you expected him to be awful. and it was borderline awful, but not like offensively so. and she just had to ditch him because he was so annoying I thought was well that was an example of a scene I totally believed in that situation. But I watched that scene and I thought, God, this is a really unnecessary scene. And I know I suppose it's kind of, you know the meeting point for the other two. but I don't know. I thought there was some I found there was and do you know what else I didn't particularly com feels like I didn't like this at all. It's not the case. it's just because I'm probably fairly or not or not measuring it against something else which is set in Wales in a crime dramrea and has lots of things in common with it. But I didn'tt I didn't think the flashback scenes were well deployed for me. Yeah I know what you mean? I could have ye flashback scenes weren't my favorite element of it, but don they didn't overuse them. weren were't too many. likeike there were just certain things to show you, you know that he's done some stuff, you know, and what his memories are. I thought they didn't completely take me out of it. so I know what you mean yeah But in general, I totally bought into it. I think I think it's think I think maybe the age of when the crime happened in terms of when the flashback scenes were, they sort of whenn' flashback scenes, it's usually when people are you know, much, much younger. But they did take me out of it because it seemed like, o there wasn there wasn't enough difference in the scene where you could think, oh, this is a completely different time. It just sort of seemed like, oh, there's two other people that something else is happening to. Do you know what I mean? It was supposed to be like a couple of decades. Yeah, it didn't feel like that To me I to me. Okay, We'll have to agree to agree with me. did I I'm not sure I think the flashbats were ill deployed. I don't think I was hugely gripped by either the flashbacks all the present day stuff if I'm honest. Yeah. I always be honest. Always be honest as already saidays. I struggled a little bit Yeah Especially because, you know, your man who was may or may not have been wrongly accused, seems quite indifferent to having the truth come out himself. So it's like, well, if you don't care, I'm not sure whether I should care. Can I give you a reason I think also you don't care? Why? Because you hate the Welsh. love the Wel? That is clearly the reason. I think you don't care very much about the victim in this. So when you find out who the victim is I think you think bothothered about finding out. Like his former best friend. Yeah. I just don't think You came across as a bit of a bllan. Exactly, so I don't think you care That's why I think you don't care. but you know It does feel like the stakes could have been a bit higher. I don't really care about the planned reservoir expansion or whatever it is that they're doing. The essential element to any Welsh crime drve.. Yes. didnid't care about that. The kind of the gross miscarriage of justice felt a little bit, I don't know, I didn't feel that that really got its claws into me. So I was again, just wasn't really invested. So at the end of this, I thought For me to watch more, I need to have cared about the characters. No or needed to find out what happened again. No And I think that's where it left. Oh for me, I saw it through her eyes because I cared about her And I thought and she's aw she's awakened by this mystery and she's investigating it. and it's part of her, you know, She' got a lot of time in her hands. She has, but's part of her desire to change her life and become an investigative journalist some. And I enjoyed that. I thought So I saw it through her. I cared about it, mainly because she cares about it and I'm rooting for her to solve it. I think she completely carries the show Yeah, she' she's the best thing in it. but I don't yeah, I'm kind of with you, James. No, I'm not kind of. I am with you. I' totally with you. It's better than ever Yeah Ye years ever after every year after school. everyvery year after year after after. For people who don't know, we did every year after on Pilot Plus and Boyd loved it and cannot wait to find out what the betrayal is that happens every year after Teena Rom that's an example of a show. I don't thinkone's everyone's tried their best to make work. Where is this? I think everyone's trying their best to make it work. Surely everyone on a TV show tries their best to make it work. I love this smooth new idea that you have that people you just want people to try a bit harder. Yeah Boyd's giving points for trying or possibly a star rating. It's unclear You're not telling me the people who created butterfly, for example, I think they all wanted it to be a success. Of course that's different. No no, no, that's different. I'm sure they tried their relatively the artist Yeah. think they were phoning in. pushed them Phoning in, I think. Wow. Wow. Sorry Thank you very much's hars. If you worked on the Prime showhow butterfly and you feel that you work very hard, we want to hear from you, right? This is a podcast so I can read out of boy. I'll take you back It's a massive reverse berit from you. Okay, well, the light in the hall still waters or as we know it G I. to work is available on when Boyy Channel four Tuesday, the sixteenth of june, twenty twenty six nine PM. Nine PM. Fantastic Now it is time for the main event because next up we have House of the Dragon. And in case you've been wondering, the Welsh for that is something that I can't remember. But this is the third series of Ron Condall's Game of Thrones prequel, pitting Targaryen against Targaryen and Dragon against Dragon. And this season sees it all kick off as we have the battle of the guullet to look forward to and all manner of family inighting except instead of throwing forks across a dinner table, it's basically breathing f in each other. So let's hear all about it Except We kind of can't because we haven't actually seen it because they haven't made the episodes available in time for the podcast. So we are going to embark upon a little bit of tiny wimy temporal chicanery. We're going to essentially spring into the future now to a day where we have been able to see the episodes and then drop that in here and then teleport back to the present to continue The podcast Ready I'm ready. Okay, we're doing it. Greetings from the future, a future where we have in fact seen House of the Dragon, future Boyd and future Steph. Both of you have seen it as well. Boyie, tell us what did you think of this particular dance with Dragons Well, showrunner Ryan Condor Condal, Condo Fonda is fine. Yeah. desescribe this episode, which is dominated by the build upp to and the execution of the Battle of the Gullet. whichich I believe fans of George R. Martin. of which are not one have been waiting for for a long time. It's a big moment in the in the game of Thrones slash House of the Dragons slash Ice and fire or whatever mythology. And Ryan Condall said of this episode arrguably the craziest episode of television ever made Now Ryan I don't like to burst your bubble in a v Void has notes. Why dont have notes? but more than that I think it says a lot of I'm trying not to be too critical here because obviously the Touse of Dragon is a huge Gantu and incredible technical achievement as much as anything else and I really and I really like seeasons one and two mostly and you know, it's a show I really enjoy and like. I do think it says something when the showrunner is so wrong about an episode of his show.' fine. It's a good episode. It's got lots of dragons, it's got lots of spectacle and fighting and killing and Dragons burning entire swathes of communities as we soon Uh, ships Banging into each other and Thousands of people dying in front of our very eyes and this that and the other. But that's not what makes a really great TV episode. What makes a really great TV episode is you You care about the characters You want to know what happens next, the tention The you know, the machinations going on are of interest, the drama. And I find these episodes where it's all about CGI Dragons Um, and very heavy Si warfare bit underwhelming in the end. it's not why I like House of the Dragon. It wasn't why I like Game of Thrones either I know there were some incredible battle episodes of Game of Thrones, but I felt they were more innovative and well thought out and more kind of Exciting than the ones in the House of the Dragon. I think slightly the righty condom might have got carried away with There's just too many dragons here for me. I don't want to go all too many corridors again. You've gone full dragon, ha' you There were so many fucking dragons flying around burning people That you just give up caring after a while and that's my issue with this first episode. I just didn't really care about what was happening and it was all too And And whereas I tell you this, the second episode, which I've watched we've been seing a few episodes luckily is great. four episode two is fantastic. That is a really good episode and without wanting to be patronising to R Con, you know I know better than the man showrunning this gargantuan thing, which is you know probably like a one hundred million per episode or whatever, actually your second episode was much better than the one you've been banging on about So yeah, those are my feelings. firstirst episode underwhelming for me, seen it before, don't need to see all the, you know, nothing particularly There's moments, there's, you know, surprise deaths and this that and the other. But episode two, oh my Godd, it's Chocer bllock full of intrigue Um tension, horror in terms of like there's a really nasty scene which I know James won't like. and all sorts of stuff going on and incredible shocks and surprises. And that is a brilliant episode. So So yeah, so I have to emphasize I really like the show Episode one disappointment for for those re youers episode two, brilliant rightight. can I just can I just jump in and say I think I just jump in and I can just say I think I think what You really hit the nail on the head with what you said because you're brilliant obviously, but have I've had problems with House the drrink. You know like we all know, I'm a massive Game of Thrones fan as I know we all love Game of Thrones. And I think I never, I think I've said it before. I found it really hard to get into ouse of the Dragon And I think it's for exactly the reasons you're saying is that for me, the great appeal and the absolute brilliance of Game of Thrones was the character driven narrative that sat alongside immersing yourself in these huge battle scenes and these huge fight scenes and they lived together and it moved the story on and it kept you interested because when it came to the battle scenes, you were so invested in who was going to come out alive. So here's my thing, right As we know as well, listeners will know, when we reviewed Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, I was all in. I absolutely loved A Night of the Seven Kingdoms. It was massively character driven, the Hedge Kight, right And it had one incredible battle scene. Now for me, that episode, I can't remember the exact episode you knew. That for me, which gave me the full Game of Thrones feels, battlefies was an example of how you kind of immerse and embed a battle scene in a character driven narrative and it works because you care so much about everything that's happened. so you don't need you know there's hardly any dialogue in that episode. It's absolutely beautiful. I thought it was a perfect episode, So I've come back to House of Dragon, and I thought, right, I Why, now I feel more invested. after even though Kight of the Seven Kingdoms, I believe I'm correct in saying that it's about seventy five years after the finale of House of the Dragons, okay? So Yeah, roughly are, I'm sure people will correct me. But it's our Jamel Cct. But it's but it's more recent history to the the end, right? So I'm feel after watching Unight of Seven Kingdoms much more invested and much more likely now to watch ourselves. like, o no, I feel more invested in this time. I'm really gonna go back to it and find out. And obviously when we left House of Dragons, the quQeens were coming together. Alicent was like, yeah Eegon's got to go, you know you know in Layman's terms, he's got to go, you were right, you can be quQeen. let's sort let's sort this out, okay. And so that's where and then also I know you don't want human dragons, we've got a wild dragon that's come in, okay? So when you obviously we're not going to give away any spoilers, but it starts with the wild dragon, which for me is because I love a dragon and maybe there wasn't because there wasn't any dragons because dragons have died out by the time you get to a knight of the Seven Kingdoms there are no dragons left and I was maybe you know it was a good time for me to be reunited with some dragons. But that said, I absolutely agree with you. It's not quite the spectacle in terms of It is a spectacle, but it's not I didn't feel invested in this in the Battle of the Gullet atours. I could not really And I think it's because of exactly what you said. There wasn't enough kind of character drama in the lead up to this battle for me considering considering the amount of time since we've since the end of season two, I was like Oh yeah not. And I found myself going right, okay, where are the allegiances again? Wh's with who? and it and it almost it almost dove too quickly into the Battle of the Garlet for me. I'm sure everyone will disagree with me apart from Boyd, but yeah, I agree with you. I did enjoy it, but it wasn't what was promised. That said as well I haven't watched these I haven't watched episode two. so I'm really looking forward to watching episode two. It's also an hour and seven minutes this first episode to allow foret the guullet battle. but there is Is this a spoiler? There is the scene where they're going through the kind of narrow part with the ships. And that is incredibly laboud, I think, that whole kind of dodging the rocks thing. Do you know what I mean? And this sort so I don't know whether it's just that there were certain things that I think they spent too much time on and obviously there's Like you said, there's like countless deaths and then you there's so many in a way that you do sort of start to not care about that. Yeah it's a numbing thing, I think, yeah. How I guarantee James is I couldould you feel James is just w wantaiting to Yeah But I did really like it. I did really like it. I think fans of the show, I'm sure most fans of the show will laap it up and will love it. It it's just slightly Yeah, it's a slightly peculiar feeling about it on my behalf. just that you agree to some extent. But yeah, I do agree with you. I do agree with you. I totally agree with you. let's see what James Well it's funny because What started there was kind of layout Broadly speaking, like the plot strokes at the end of the season two finale. Andne of the things I was going to ask you guys is, do you remember what happened at the end of season two? Because I think one of the things about this show is it's been a while since the last episode. The finale of the previous season was summer twenty twenty four We've had two years to wait. It's an incredibly dense political show. Without having read the Wikipedia summaries or rewed the series, I think you're going to be like Who are you and? And what is happening? Yeah And I And fans are going to be like that. even huge fans are going to be like that, I think. And so I think you know the best piece of advice I would give anyone is if you can rewatch, like do a run up and watch seasons one and two before we go to three, that's the best way to do this. you can' watch the last episode of season two. I mean, you can do that, but I feel like you still lose a lot because a lot of the plot stuff is't in that episode or read the Wikipedia sumar being lazy. But I do think you need to do that because when the Game of Thrones battle sequences work really well, it's when they have traditionally been the penultimate episode in a series or the midpoint in a series for all the reasons you say, because you have all of that character work leading up to the battle. So it's not about dragons and CGI, it's all character and you're so fucking invested in the outcome that all the emotion is there. So I get what Ron Conda was doing here, which was like, well, let's start strong. let's do the biggest altercation, the biggest battle we've ever done, and let's stick it right up front to remind people why this series is great But in doing that, you lose the character work leading into it. So I definitely think you are both right. It saps the episode of its heart a little bit. You've got all the spectacle, but you don't care as much as you should unless Unless you watch the last few episodes of the previous season first, in which case, this doesn't feel like a season premiere. It feels like almost like a finale because the last one literally ended with Allicent leaving Dragonstone, you know, a little montage at the end. And if you do that, then this feels massive because you've had these two women who were friends and then they were enemies together and then Alison has made this incible incredible sacrifice. She's prepared to sacrifice her son. give the throne back to Rhaenyra, knowing that she was wrong, knowing that Rhaenyra should have the throne. And that's a massive thing to do. And then to go from that into this battle, I think it works brilliantly But it's the cold star That's the problem So that point, right? So when you first see Alison coming back and she's challenged on where she's been and you've It's lost that momentum. So it's you kind of feel like she's not in jeopardy. but like you're totally right. If you watch the last episode, you were like, no, she's in really serious shpe. No She's justing treason.. And when she's asked, where have you been and we all know that yeah, she's plotting against her own flesh and blood, right? you think, oh Godd, but if you're coming to this sort of cold, like as you say, after two years, you're like ot really bothered, you know, it doesn't it doesn't feel that there's any it doesn't feel You don't feel concerned for her. you get what I mean Completely. And I think that I think on the one hand, it might have been a slight misstep to go straight into the Battle of the Gullet. I think we needed a powerful character driven episode as episode one So maybe episode two becomes episode one, you know what? And then you go straight into the battle, having refreshed your connections to all these characters Having watched the end of the previous season and gone into this, I didn't feel disappointed by it and I was very invested in it. And it is, I was watching this episode thinking I can't imagine what this cost. It must have been so expensive. because you've got, as you said, dragons, ships, rocks, the sea, all this stuff. It is basically the whole episode And I think the beats of the battle are really well done. And the thing that always impresses me about Game of Thrones is the effects work is fucking flawless. Like at no point do I think, o, a bit of LED volume there, Oh that' some dotty compositing. I have mell sh about. This is me. I have no notes on the effects at all. None, no notes. L I thought it looked incredible And I mean, it does it feels so lavish the shows, does it feels so expensive. But weirdly, you're right, buddy. my favorite episodes of this are very often people in stone rooms getting cross with each other. L that's kind of what I come to from the show So I love these battle sequences, but I do think it's nice when they're deployed judiciously. So I want my characters. I want you know the wranglings and all of the political machinations. And I was talking to someone the other day about Howouse' the Dragon and why they didn't like her and I think the one complaint that does stick is that it's somewhat one note in and I think we've talked about it this podcast before. Because Game of Thrones has a massive cast, a huge ensemble of characters, and they are in different places, they are different types of character, the tonality of the different characters is vastly different. There's lots of humor in it as well. It's got something for everyone. Whas this O Politics, Thrones, dragons, like that's the whole show. And I love that. That's what I'm here for, and that's fine. But I understand why it doesn't have the broad appeal that Game of Thrones does as well. Yeah, I totally, totally agree with you. I think some people when people ask me like why who have never watched Game of Thrones, right Wh is Game of Thrones good? and why did I like Game of Thrones so much always you should watch Game of phones because it's not just It's not just dragons very f dragons. Yeah it's not anything, you know, it's not it's such an it's an incredible story And like you say, it's the Gram of Thrones has the broad appeal because you know, yeah, you can be in Westeros, you can be King'sanding, you can be and that's what makes that special and it is the character work that makes that special. and that's why peopleople who maybe wouldn't particularly enjoyouse House of the Dragon would love Game of Thrones and I always want to say to people, Give Game of Thrones a chance if you haven't because you will fucking love it. It's absolutely brilliant. But I can see there's people Me, I count myself as one of them who I'm like a real purist, Game of Thrones purist. in a House of the Dragon, I feel like I could leave it N not be bothered but you know, but not be bothered. and I know that sounds. You lost me. but yeah, I just feel a bit like no, I will continue to watch it. I loved it. but I really enjoyed. I thought Night of the Seven Kingdoms, I really, really enjoyed that for the reasons that I loved Game of Thrones. And I know lots of people's complaints about Night of the Seven Kingdom was there wasn't enough battle scenes. wasn't it was too character driven. I mean, but that is what the Hedge tonight is about and And that brought me back to a lot of the things I loved about Game of Thrones. but this I think it is not without its problems for people who loveame the Game of the thrononeame Game ofones love game ofamerones. That's because's Houses of the Dragons, Game of Thrones. It's not without issues. I can see people being divided but, you know Would you say that's fair? No, I totally get why not everyone you know loves this show. I will say that Whenever I watch a new series of House of the Dragon, it reminds me why this is almost always my favorite show on television when it's on Like I absolutely adore this world. I love the mythology, the visuals, the texture. The fact that I have no CGI complaints is I find it so immersive and so absorbing And I do love the characters and I do love that it's very plottyy and political And I do like lots of people in stone rooms yelling at each other about politics, you know that and occasionally I like dragon sinking ships, you know it does have everything, but you've got to have the patience to sit with it. But I guess my advice is, as I said, like if you are going to go into this, don't Try not to go into it cold. L do try and if you can And we should say this isn't even out this week. It's literally not out until the Monday after this week. So we've pulled this one forward because the embargo's lifted. So you do have time. I think it's going to go out on skky in the two AM. Satur Sunday night sort of Sunday nights who just falls into our week. Yeah. But But you know, genuine you've got time. If you can rewatch it or do a massive rew one and two or just refresh yourself Normal people aren't going to do that. They not At the very least, watch the season two finale I watched the season two finale and that was enough. And even then though, but I still think I think you're right. should They should have they should have had an opening episode Just reminding us of the situations, reminding us of the stakes and then episode two should have been That's exactly it. It doesn't feel like the stakes are high, even though they are so high, they are so high. Allison is in mortal danger, right? But it doesn't feel like the stakes are high in this episode. That's. I think in terms of the tone of it, think I think it is I don't think it's humor less. I do think there's like Mattmith alone, like Matt Smith's performance is very like It's really funny, you know, when he when he he's got a smile he's got a grin on his face large He's a cheeky roue. He's a cheeky rogue exactly And you know who I really like actually is, you know, Lord Laris Strog played by M Yeah him the footot fanticist. Yes. Yeah, the foot fetasist. and he's really funny. He is really funny. And the two him he's now got like a double act with what's his name? theagun the King So he's the one at the end of season two who's he's helping him, you know, because obviouslys sort of nearly mortally wounded but ye. their double act is great and it's really funny, I think. So there are there are moments of humor in it, but yeah, it's more relentless I really I really love it it's not my favorite on TV, but it's on but you know I'm very excited to see what happens next. Have you watched the second episode?'ve watched I've watched four. I've watched four. of course I did. I got up earlily this morning and devoured all of them.. they' having a great old time. What time did you get up? let's talk about that. Yeah I watch I watched the World Cup last night so I couldn't watch. Yeah. mean I don't care about the football,. I got up at six and watched the episode, but goh, Jesus, that was the first episode, I'. Yeah they're all very long Are they all as long as that? No no, they're not there's another one that's over an hour and then the other they're always around the hour mark like there. Yeah' over an hour. But e there's a lot going on. There is a lot happening. I mean there's I mean, genuly it's quite interesting because you know we can't go into the plot reasons why but the three that follow that first one are very dialogue and driven. Okay. good news. Yeah, I'm happy about that. And there are some interesting developments is all I'm gonna say. But yeah, I love this show. I love it to bits. And you we have this argument in the Empire Office where Nick the Samy will go go to the mat for Lord of the Rings of Rings of the Lord, and say it's the best fanasy show on TV.. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the best fany show.. I mean, I'm sorry but Nick Nick is wrong It's a big buotle of wrong. It's much better. This is be much better than Lord of the Rings swings. hundred percent House of the Dragon then, which airs on was it is it midnight Sunday slash Monday morning? two AM. twoo AM. So Monday morning. Yeah. And you can watch it on Sky Atlantic. And HBOMax. And HBO Max? Weirdly. It's on boths on all both platforms. On both platforms. Now before we return to the present, we bring news from the future as well, don't we, Boydie? It's not just a review. We all came for House of the Dragon and while we were in the future We found news that the new season of Slow Horses has a date. It will be arriving on Apple TV on the sixteenth of September, and I for one am psyched. Very exciting. Yeah. And put a couple of pictures One with Lenny Rush is in it now He's the big new cast member, I think. Yeah And it's the adaptation of two novels Sushed together get smashed out of that A book just yeah, the main thing is seeptember feels like we haven't got long to wait even though its like it's sooner than bloody rivals, right? vals you have to wait And I baging lot about it. But it's two months ahead of rivals. so what a big treat we have in store there. Yeah, it's very, very exciting indeed. I was also there's more news that was exciting, Sorry to ye The announcement of The Shards is arriving in August on Disney Plus and the Shards is Ryan Murphy's adaptation of the Brett Easter and Ellis novel of the same name, which is one of my favorite books of the last decade. And it's an incredible book which features eighties pop culture all over the place perverse sexuality a serial killer, a potential serial killer and a character called and basically Brtis Dt is in the novel because it's about his life growing up and becoming a writer when he was like eighteen So I can't wait for that. That's coming in I think sixth of August. So yeah, there was good news post N News from the future. News from the future. Yeah. I would say you mentioned it was two novels it is. So series six of Slow Horses adapting the novels, Joe Country and Slow House. And then series seven, which has been Greenleit, is adapting. and presumably they've already shot because that tends to be the c adapting M Herren's book, Bad Aors. Okay, that is enough from the future We return now to the present. Okay're We're back at the present. Wow. That was exciting. to my chair. Yes, Steh has returned to the present. So that's good. We found out all about How's the Dragon? I wonder what we thought of it in the future. I would have thought you would' have gone to the premiere Monday I would have thought you would have gone to the Pmiere on M. I had another screening. You had another screening. Oh, you went to disclure that while some of us went the Premiere of disclosure. Yeah. I mean so we went to see Son the musical instead of. Which you enjoyed. Yes with my momum for eighti fifh birthday. Thank you very much. Okay fine. Well u I'm gonna to guess our pick of the weeek was u House of the dragon? I feel quite certain it would have been the house. Do you think? It feels likely I'm saying. Did I just call it the house ofgon The house of the dragon? The house of the dragon. There's enough words with without adding more words more thoseds. We haven't done Waleses on yet, by the way. No, we haven't done that segment. I think this will be a very short segment. Oh feel free. No, well, there's quite lot stuff on I will find you, which is the new Holland Coben adaptation, which is American. I thought you were saying this I love I I will find you Well I will find you. Yeah, Holland Coben's I W will Find You is a rare American adaptation of one of his books. Yes This is newew. It's on Netflix from Thursday, the eighteenth of june, twenty twenty five. Sugar season two Steph may or may not be the only person who watched all of season one. I know that Kay is going to be back next week and I don't know if she's watched sugar. Deinitely doesn't watch sugar. becausecause the second that the twist I will not reveal at this precise moment was revealed, she would have stopped watching. Sugar is one of the great. Sugar is a great show and Sy Cry S, Cry Fry show, whatever everyone to call it Unreal. Colin Farrell, amazing Isn't that spoiler in itself? Anyway is Sugar' backack on Apple TV Friday, nineteenth of june, twenty twenty six. There is a comedy returning comedy Fun Boys, which is not one of James's. I think we reviewed series one of this. Do you remember Northern Irish trio of Lads Bingst Oh I think I had It is quite good fun. I think I did. Steve Cuan pops up in a guest role, very funny guest guest role in the new series. That's I've done thatBC Friday. I' mention on the feed on the WhatsApp group. Yeah, I was all for it, I think. And also by James on the Whatspp,re not consered worthy enough is Rosa Electrica, which is an Italian crime thriller starting on Sky Atlantic and now on Tuesday, sixteenth of June oclock could have done that If it was Wels language, would have enough for it. O of course if it had someone from Bloody Sen the Dutton Ranch, they would have done it. Yeah no Dut and ranch disisssing, okay? No Dut and ranch dissing. I think that is about it. Yes. I think for the agency is back rely speaking on Sunday, Yes.'s on Sunday. That's true. Yeah. And I may or may not have sitew watch that. We could do that next week. there go Yeah. Do you watch season one of No but K was your agency, so that's good. Maybe I'll just come in just do the sugar bit because if nobody else was watched. fine I just you' in your terms for injection of sugar. Yeah. Yeah. nice. Right. okay, brilliant. So upic of the week is has't the dg I mean n we haven'ten it yet. It be dissolved. It might be awful. It might have terri. Let's be honest. The trailer looks immense. It's not going to be, isn't it? It's going to be, I feel it's going to be better than the reservoir based crime drama I think she's wr Bld words, Bld words Okay, that is it for this week's show. We do hope you enjoyed it. If you did, please leave us a very positive review and say only nice things on the YouTube comments section You know who you are We'll be back in your ears next week when we will cover one of the many things that werere inbargoed this week. There's not a lot new on next week, but we will be able to cover some of the I mean, ronically, howouse the Dragon is technically on next week and not this week. So you know, we've pulled that forward. Honestly, time has no meaning anymore this podcast. It's absolute can't Not that we've realized we can time travel. No, that's true, which we did this week So that was exciting I'm off to polish up on my Welsh, so in the meantime get. Wellalthy DVI Pay lot Mas