Discussing Rivals and The Bear

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Now as well as being in store, you can shop the Range Online and get your favorite look delivered straight to your door. Pilot TV this week we're heading back to Rutshire for more bunk busting drama with season two of Rivals on Disney Plus. Looking at the police mistreatment of victims during the Black Cab rapist investigation in Believe Me on ITV and enjoying a surprise episode of The Bear, which landed on Disney Plus, not to mention going back to college with off-campus on. Prime Video. Plus Steve Coogan joins us in this very studio to chat Netflix's legends. I'm James Dyer and welcome to Pilot TV, your essential guide to every show that matters, and a podcast that is going slightly off script this week, though not because we are complete mavericks who don't do things by the book, but more because, in part thanks to the bank holiday. Screeners have been, shall we say, a little bit irregular this week, a little bit inconsistent in appearing, meaning me and my two co-pilots, Steph Sealin and Boyd Hilton, who are both here, are Winging it somewhat, I would say. And we're gonna pick from a smoggest board of shows and see which ones of us managed to watch which shows. But look, we're gonna get onto more of that as we tee up the review section, so that's something to look forward to a little bit. Uh but before we do that, I want to talk. About bees. Yes, bees. Uh you will recall that Steph derailed this podcast last week. Uh with talk about bees having just seen a bee related documentary, right? Secrets of bees. Secrets of bees, yes. Steph mentioned it on this podcast. And presumably in response to that. Bees. had an opinion. The bees wanted to get involved. The bees were clearly very keen to listen to this because you were obviously you were mentioning them on the Pilot TV podcast. The essential guide to every show that matters. And The bees were excited. They wanted to hear it. So for reasons that I still don't fully understand, they came to my house. to listen to the podcast. Are you trying to tell us that you've got a new fan base and it consists solely of bees. Can you see this video to the group? did see the video but I'm I'm just t I'm just trying to let him and let him reveal it in a more exciting way. Boy just wants to get straight to the point. Let's not mess about, let's get because straight to the beat. That video, as a fan of the absolutely terrible seventies film The Swarm. With Michael Caines. Yeah. One of the worst films ever made. Um about a swarm of bees, swarm of killer bees. Um, I was I I was blown away by his video that he sent us. You should why don't you should put it on YouTube. Honestly, basically it is absolutely terrifying. I think it's terrifying. Why is it terrifying? It's a bees. It's literally except they were coming out of my fireplace. It was like the fucking candy man. Okay. They do sting, you know. Have you watched The Secrets of Bees that I told you to watch on Disney? No, you haven't. They don't, right, the only it takes a lot. Right, for a couple of thousand? Yeah, it takes Void. Clearly you've not watched the secret of bees as I told you to. Okay. And I'm I'm just guessing that you don't I'm just gonna say you don't know enough about bees. They don't want to sting you. When they sting you, they die. But if thousands suddenly come down your chimney. Yeah into your living room. Yeah. I mean, it's scary. You're saying you wouldn't be scared in this. We we should carry out a full experiment in which we can fire thousands of bees and just let them As I told you last week, bees bees can open doors. They can do lots of stuff that you don't know about. They're very placing. Yeah. They can do lots of stuff. They don't want to you would have to do a lot. to get them to attack you. Like slander them on a podcast, that sort of You should have just got Steph around to do that. I should have done. I should have got to or my friend Graham, G's Bees. Who deals with bees. And to be fair, I was I was messaged by a couple of people uh saying they could not find Graham on Instagram. I should say his actual handle on it is G-S-B-E underscore Z. At Gee's I don't know why he did it that way, presume the other ones were taken, but that is how you get Gee's B's on on on Instagram. But yes, how did you first notice the bee? I was editing the podcast. As you do. Right. And a couple of bees came in. Now I have a like an insect catcher, which is like a little mini hoover thing and it enables me to grab insects, hoover them in, and then let them outside so I don't have to hurt them. Okay. So I'm very humane with insects, so I don't like to hurt them and spiders, all sorts of things like that. So I I escort them off the premises. Much like a bouncer. Insect hoofd? It's like it's an insect catcher. It has a little a tiny little fan in it to suck them into the tube and then you just let them out. Anyway, yeah, it's great. Got it feedback. Anyway, so I use that to remove a few bees and there were a couple more and I was like, Where are these bees coming from? And is there a window open? And then I watched one fly out of the fireplace. So I had an old fireplace and I've kind of retconned my fireplace into an entertainment system. So I've got all my PlayStation and my TV stuff is all in that. But the chimney obviously there's still a chimney above it. And some bees had obviously flown into the top of the chimney. and come down and come out of my fireplace. And then they started streaming out in, shall we say, some number, and then that number became a trickle, and then it became a flow, and then it became a swarm. Hence the picture of two thousand bees all swarming around my chimney and going absolutely apeshit. Yeah, and it was very loud as well. And they they took over my house and I had to call in a bee man. Do you know what would have happened? And you'll know this if you've watched The Secrets of Bees on Disney. Tell me. Probably what would happen, it gets to a point with a hive that um a number of bees need to go and find a new high. They basically need to go, they go off. They've done their time. So I think it's about a third of them. Um, you know, I'm not been very good on the numbers lately. Sixty percent of all these. They have to go. So probably they were looking for somewhere else to make home and they thought We know a fan. We we know where we're gonna go. And they came in. Obviously I explained to them because they came on a Friday, I explained that the podcast about the bees wasn't out until Monday and then they left. So How did they actually leave though? What happened? It was actually quite complicated. So so the B Man can I called, instead of an exterminator, I called I called like like apiary experts, but bee people from the area and what they do is they come in and they relocate bees and find them another home. So they they take them somewhere else. They f they find them in New Hollywood. Right, and and they they scoped it out, they looked at the um the architecture, it's not really working. Uh and they said they would re but but it turns out because they're in the chimney, that's a bit of an operation. They can't really get bees out of a chimney. But then the B man said because this is far too much B chat. Because they were swarming they might just be in transit. Yeah, finding a new So they might move on. I was like, that's brilliant. But then he said, but what we should probably do is block up the the bottom of the the the chimney flu so that they can't come into your 'cause you don't want them in the front room. Like you're watching TV, you don't want to share your sofa with bees. Generally. Well Steph would be apparently She's all about the bees. Yeah. Sitting there with like thousands of bees extra on the side. So he tried to sort of block it off and and that proved quite challenging. And he said, Well you can do that and then just leave the bees to it. And if they don't go away, just leave them up there, don't worry about them because as long as not coming in the house, who cares? That's fine. However B then fell out. A few of them have falling out, but one particular thing, and he just went shit. I was like, what is it? And he was like, that was the queen. And I was like and he was like, quickly catch her. No, she was fine. She just fell out the chimney. And he said, quickly catch her. And I obviously spooned it spectacularly and she's flew straight out the doors and just left the room. And he goes, Right. He said We have a problem. I said what's the problem? He said all bees follow the pheromones of the queen and she's just flown through your front room, which means all of those thousands of bees are going to come down here and there's nothing we can do to stop them at this point. And I was just like, What am I supposed to do? Drama. He said if you'd caught the queen, you could take her up to the roof and then they'd all just swarm around her and then we could relocate them. But he said, as it happens now, all these bees are now coming into your front room. There's nothing you can do about it. She said at this point for safety reasons and he called a couple of other bee experts, if there's any other way around it, he said, I think we are unfortunately gonna have to kill wanna kill the bees. He said there's there's nothing you can really do about it at this point. He said, Because they're all gonna come into your front room. And that's fine if you can keep the Doors open and they'll just go out. He said, But at some point you're gonna need to go to bed and you will otherwise wake up and there'll be two thousand bees in your front room when you wake up. He said, And that's not safe. So he said but he said, You may be feeling bad about it. He said, They're all gonna die anyway because the queen's gone. So he said they'll j they're just gonna aimlessly and he said something to do with the way they feed. Anyway, he said they would die anyway, so actually it was you know This is a I know I know it's turned into a horror story and we have to kill the bees. It's a horror film. So he killed the bees. Do you know what this is a lesson? This is a lesson in when I tell you to watch something, you should watch it. How would that help because I said told you to watch Secrets Bees and we would have had been been more knowledgeable about it when the bees came. How would knowledge have helped me to I can't talk to the bees. We just think it would. I don't think it's not. Right. Okay. But anyway, I was really sad, but we did exhaust every other option and he had to kill the bees and it made me really sad because I didn't want to kill the bees. And he said to me, he said if they were wasps, he goes I'd kill them day and night, little fuckers. But he said he said bees, bees are lovely. We try not to kill bees. Can I acquire the rights to this and turn it turn it into a uh horrifying list? Yeah. Not the bees, not the bees. Yeah, it had a sad ending. And it bummed me out most of the day. It was a weapon of choice. Yeah. How did he kill the thing? A flam thrower, obviously. No. No, of course I'm joking. Not a flamethrower. He used he did he they put some powder down the top of the chimney. Of course. Well, to be fair a lot of them then all flew out to get away from it. So a lot of them did then fly out and went away. Okay, so there were some some survivors. There were survivors. Every now and then you just stumble across a dead bee in your kitchen. Well, in the front room. There was there were there were dead bees in the front room. Were you on your own or were you I was I was sitting on my own, just happily editing the podcast at a table and then the bees died. I don't like bees or wasps. Okay. I like bees, they're nice. You have to like bees. Yeah. Okay, because that's Well you do because otherwise we'd all be dead. We need bees to pollinate. I know, I know, I know. I don't I just don't choose to socialise with them. That's fair. You know, that's fair. Enough B chat. We're I'm sure we'll have tons of complaints in the reviews about this. Too much B chat on this podcast. It's not a B podcast. I don't see how anyone could complain about that story. I mean that is a horrific story. Yeah, and it was a good story. Well done, you. Steph, any other off report based documentaries you've been watching would like to share this week? Well, as I said, I'm on um The Secrets of Wales at the moment, which is fantastic. But mostly I am. Whales the the the huge large mammals and not the country. No, but I do love whales. The secret life of whales the country. I would watch that. Yeah. Wales. Whales. Wonderful. I could get Michael Sheen on there. You could, yes. That'd be wonderful. So many great Welsh people. Anyway, not that. I am knee deep in Ted Lasso. Okay. I can't stop watching this show. Now. that are concerning me, but I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go. So I'm up to I'm up to episode seven on season two and I just watched there's two episodes back to back, which are two amazing episodes. One of them is Carol of the Bells, which is the Christmas episode in season two. uh where Hannah Woodingham goes around and gives presents to people, which is just delightful. But my favourite episode of the whole thing so far is Rainbow Episode five, season two, which is the rom com episode where they do lots of um, you know, the I mean do you know which one I'm talking about? Yeah. Right. Oh my. It's absolutely brilliant. It's a total joy. Brett Goldstein in in its own. Listen, Brett Goldstein, I mean, absolutely brilliant. Hannah Waddingham is so sensational. I mean She's hosting um SNL this week, this is the time. She'll be great. The Christmas episode, the one where where Keely and Roy are trained to her and she's seeing someone and she says he's fine and and he does a monolith. Fine, fine. You don't need someone who's fine. You want someone who's sets your fucking hair on fire. How dare you settle for fine. That's the one before that. The um the Christmas episode is where um his niece has uh got a bad breath problem and they do the they do the love actually thing at the boys' house at the end with the cards. Yeah. I mean, it's just every all the little touches are so fantastic. I'm thoroughly enjoying it. I mean, I'm just I'm gonna say something that might shock people. I don't love it as much as I love shrinking. But I do really love it. Or as much as you love Rooster. Oh I love Rooster. But my God Phil Dunster is so good as well. He plays Jamie Tunster. I see he's so sexy. He's so I love him. And I love him in this because he's just such a massive knob. And he means it's great, it's great. It's so entertaining. Yeah, I really love it. So That's why you find him so sexy. Yeah. Well, Gina 'cause he was massive steady. Anyway, that's what I've been watching. Okay. I watched last night Live from N Five. Which is the uh YouTube um Arsenal magazine show. that they have on uh on the Arsenal the official Arsenal YouTube channel before every before m every match. Which is the uh PostgreSQL's base. So this was before the Champions League semifinal second lake that we won one nil. And we're now going to Budapest for the Champions League final. I'm gonna have to interject there. What? Who's going to Budapest for the Champions League final? Me personally as well, yeah. Yeah, and Arsenal. And um and they had um but this is yes, on the one hand, this is an excuse for me to say that to to revel in the fact that Arsenal won last night, I'm very confused. I thought we're doing appallingly and were losing to teams like Bournemouth or where it was. No, this you that was happening about a month ago, but now we've got to do that. Everything has changed. Right. Champions League final, which is which is not like just like British Premier League Um I don't why I I just carry on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just gonna explain it and he then he started doing that thing with his eyes. Why am I trying to he doesn't need to know this. There's no space in that brain for this, right now. No. Anyway, I I was mentioning it for contuitious reasons that that I was there last night, it was one of the greatest nights of my life. We had a absolute brilliant time. And we ended up in a pub after the game um with Derma and um uh they were like I'm with and that the crowd were chanting Doma is a guna, Derma is a guna and they were like hailing him. It was brilliant. Um But the reason but the tenuous connection to um television etc is that um this live from n five show had Benedict Cumberbatch on. So Benedict Cumberbatch has become a huge Arsenal fan. Mainly because like um he he he he lives near there, his friends live near there, and his kids um support Arsenal. And he was he launched a really lovely explanation of why he's an Arsenal fan in classic, eloquent, kind of inspiring, life affirming, cumberbatch way. And then sure enough they they're the the small studio audits. It's done in a studio uh at the game. And um they were all like Cumberbatch they were like worshiping Cumberbatch and uh talking about How how brilliant he is. And it was really sweet. It was really fantastic to see him. So and not only he is a big Oscar fan, but so is Tom Hiddleston. And Tom Hiddleston was on the David Beckham coverage of the match. Now this is a show, this is an American show, um which is called Beckham and Friends Live, James. And you and I know you love with Love Megan, it's with love David. No, it's not like that. It's more like it's more like goggle box. It's basically goggle box for football with David Beckham hosting it. God, that's my idea for the book. No, but you know what? They do lots of those kinds of things. There's another show that Gary Neville, my uh dear love. He does so. I've never heard that sentence in my life. I Honestly, in another life, do believe that Gary Neville is my soulmate. I'm on I'm not joking. Are you this is the most sh surprising thing you I've ever heard you say. How have we not discussed this before? When I see Gary Neville, right, on TV, something happens to my heart. It flutters. Study I wonder where you were going with that sentence for sure. Yeah, I love it. Can I ask a question? Yes. What do you think it is? Is it TV? Who's Gary Neville? Okay. Well he's a Manchester United footballer and pundit. He's a wonderful. He's one of the most famous footballers, but he's probably the I would say he's the one of the best pundits that we have. So do you like him in in in in a in a like an erotic way, or something? I like him facially. I like Everything he says I think he's I just think I he's got such a he's like such a good man. I like that he's got really good relationships with his family. He's just really down to earth and he's really nice. I love his accent. I love everything but I agree with everything he says and he does these fantastic shows, he's funny and he can take the piss and he can like he can give it and he can take it and I really like that about him. Wow. Okay, yeah, yeah. But if my point about that is he does shows where he watches people like people has watched the old matches of and talk about it and it's very entertaining. The Beckham Show Beckham Friends, which is an American show, um but they you get clips of it on YouTube so actually, is it is he sits there watching the match with celebrities and you you so you're watching him watching the match. And one of those celebrities in last night was Tom Hiddleston, who's also a massive Arsenal fan as he also over when I was you interviewed for this podcast. So you got Hiddleston and Cumberbatch. Wow. I mean you basically you've got British acting royalty. Yeah. All supporting Arsenal. Absolutely. Fantastic. And me. Wow. Um so hopefully I'll see them in Budapest. You will at the end of the month. The other thing I've been watching is which is slightly random, but for for reasons that will come clear eventually. Um well partly because so Ross D. Davis' tiptoe is coming soon and we'll we which is his Big new s show on channel four. Arrives at the end of May, so we'll be reviewing it soon. Tiptoe is about um two warring neighbours. and that that kind of one of them is gay and the other one is is kindophobic. And it's like that that's a simplistic version of the story and they end up having this terrifying kind of conflict. If you like. I'm not gonna say whether that's all I'm saying. Is it a British beef? It's a little bit of a British beef. Yeah, we'll see. I can't say anything about it, because that'll be spoiler. Anyway, in anti partly in anticipation for that, 'cause it's been billed quite quite um accurately as a thriller. Rossity Davis's first thriller, really, proper, full on, you know. scary stuff happening in the show. But the only other thing that comes close that he's done in his œuvre is the second coming, which came out about twenty years ago. Which Christopher Eccleston as literally the son of God who comes back to to earth to tell everyone. Yeah. It's well this is what I was So I I I watched I started watching it just go as a as a comparison between the two. Yeah. And 'cause I wrote I've wrote wrote about Tiptoe the new issue of Empire. Out now out now. Out now. Out now. Out now. Uh best issue of Empire ever. Because it's got aliens on the cover. Written by me. Mm-hmm. Oh. Well, I mean, fair enough. Yeah. Um should be an alien, but there we are. Uh I watched the second coming. It was directed by a guy called Adrian Shergold, who's a very respected kind of uh director. Eccleson is brilliant in it. As he's he's basically like a normal Man Cunian set in Manchester and he's the like a normal everyday guy who's working in a video store. I mean that dates it, right? That's like quite poignant for a start. Um he's a just a normal everyday guy who just happens to be actually the Messiah and the son the son of God. And he performs miracles to prove to the to people that he really is the son of God. So there's no doubt. It's not like it's not the story of someone who wakes up and goes, Oh, I think I I'm I'm mad. I'll be he's mad because he thinks he's the son of he really is the son of God. But the whole message of the show is very atheistic in the sense that it's all about how controlled c controlled and um organized religion. ruins everything. So it once he becomes this huge Messiah like figure and millions and millions of people across the world start worshiping him blindly, that's the problem. And it's such an interesting Concept. And I remember w watching it when it first came out and everything is is uh and I and I loved it. But what's amazing about it, it has not dated Where can you watch it now? Do you know what? I got I I I I got it on D V D. Um yeah. He got the own DVD out. DVD out. Um so I think I I think you could watch have watched it on IT VX for until F any recently and it seems to have gone off IT VX, but I'm sure be back soon. But it is astonishing the extent to which it hasn't dated. Obviously there's certain there's bits and pieces of CGI in it. um which which are which would have been done more sophisticatedly, is that word? Now. But the the way it's shot um is so cinematic and clever. The camera's constantly moving and kind of tracking epic characters and there's there's a big explosion in one of the episodes that's done really really, really done well. But it's just in the dialogue and the execution and the direction and the acting, it's really it's a really fantastic under I think undervalued item in the Brusty Davis œuvre, as I say. And it was fantastic. And so I I started I was my plan was just to have a look at it and say, Oh, you know, what's it what was it like after all the years 'cause I haven't seen it for ages. And I watch the whole thing. Amazon video or Apple TV you can watch it. There you go. It's good. Okay. Yeah, it it's absolutely honestly it's fantastic. So yeah, that was that. Also I think the seeds of his doctor can be found. Yeah, definitely that's it. Yeah, yeah. manic quality to it. There's a definitely a maniacal thread running through his Messiah. Yeah. And of course it did lead to him Being a Doctor Who. Yeah. Okay. Lovely. Yeah. James. Uh, what have I been watching this week? So I've watched some more of Prisoner. On the sky. Oh yeah. Yeah. It's not very good. Now I watch another couple of episodes. And it's not that it's I mean it's really hard to quantify because I'm kind of enjoying it, but I if I it maybe it's not a hate watch by any stretch, because I'm not hating anything about it. It's a guilty pleasure in that I'm not convinced of the quality, but I am quite invested in it. I think it's you know, m when people watch soaps often, I guess is that is you're you're not sure that you're not you know you're not watching prestige TV, but you need to know what happens to these particular characters. And I think my issues with this particular show are Everything that happens with the transport officer and the convict on the run, loads of fun. Everything that happens in the control room, excruciating. Absolutely excruciating. There is a scene where A character, I'm not gonna spoil anything for anyone, is accused of being the mole. And it's just like I was just I mean the dialogue, everything about it was just toe curlingly awful. Not least of all the fact that the person is accused in front of the whole no no one says you can you come into a room, we need to have a chat. Just like accusation in front of a room full of people followed up with no evidence to back it up and I was like I don't understand how this was written this way. It's just no, I can't I can't. I just can't and yet I'm still watching it and I don't know why, but I am still watching it. I watched I watched half of it from you know the scene I'm talking about. I'm in the pocket of big um Big prisoner. But um I really really enjoyed it actually. But um it is it it knows what it's doing. It's it's it' I uh I I think all of this is a moot because the fact is you're watching it. And you enjoy it. Exactly. That's the bottom line, because it is addictive viewing. Yeah, well there you go. And that's what you want. That's what people want. It doesn't have to be prestige. You you you love prisoner. And I love this. I also like the mad R um the son of the of the Oh yes, yeah again, screaming off. He's brilliantly over the top. I think I enjoy his performance. A lot of it's over the top. I don't even mind the over the topness. It's particularly the control room sequences are quite cack handed. And it's just uh I just it bugs me when I'm gonna do it. I've said it before when I'll say it again. Well we're gonna have to get into this because there's someone who's quite triggered by that who wrote into Pilot Plus to say that control room sequences are their personal beig noir. So we'll have to get into that one. But uh yeah. Uh so I've been watching more prisoner and let's be honest, I'm not gonna stop. Even though I know I should. No, you should not know. Because you're enjoying it. It's like his and hers. You should watch it. It's brilliant. His and hers, we should say before the show started. Steph began by saying, What was the name of that show where insert spoiler for the final episode here happened? And I was like Well I don't know, but I'm clearly not gonna watch it now, Steps. It's still an enjoyable ride. Thank you. The people have spoken. Indeed. Uh what else did I watch? I watched the new series of From, which is I can't believe it's a fourth series of From. I didn't even realise we were on series four. So as we'll get onto in the review section We didn't get access to all the shows we thought we were getting ac access to. So one of the news I did. You did, but Steph and I didn't. So I watched some episodes of From thinking worst case scenario, I could just review that instead. But I'm I'm not gonna do it, I'm just gonna talk about it here. Doesn't From feature um Sheriff Boyd? Sheriff Boyd, that's right. What a great man. Exactly. Sheriff Boyd. And this is off the back of the complete madness that happened last season. It has so much lost in its DNA. Like it really does, except with a much nastier horror bent to it, in that you're just like, I don't know what's going on. And at this point, though, and this is where I guess the lost analogy. Maybe ends, depending on your point of view. I'm not sure I care enough to keep watching. And yet again, I'm watching it despite myself. Now this one is almost a hate watch where I'm not even sure I actively enjoy watching the show. But I'm three seasons deep now and like, God damn it, the fifth one is gonna be the last one. I'm just gonna press on to the end. But I don't know that I should. I think you just need to free yourself from your mind. I should maybe free myself from from. So season four, we should say, is airing on Sky One. I think it starts this week. It starts on the checks notes 14th, Thursday the 14th. So actually later this week. Um and I've seen the first couple of episodes of it. And yes, there's a big kind of shift in the balance at the end of season three, which obviously I'm not gonna spoil. Uh and so it continues along that path, but it is more of the same. I do feel that we're getting answers now. I'm just not sure they're good answers. Does that make sense? Do you know this show? So just to give you an idea of the show, if you didn't listen to our first review of this, this is uh a weird town in the middle of somewhere America where any doesn't matter where you are in America, there'll be a bit where you'll be driving along and suddenly be down a country lane and there'll be a tree across the road with crows on it. And if you see that tree, you're fucked. Cause that basically means that you're now stuck in this town. You'll turn around and you'll go back into town. And if you drive through town, you'll end up back in town again. Like you can't ever. You can never leave Helto, California. Exactly. You can never leave this town. You're stuck there. And then these grinning monsters come out at night and they visit people, which is obviously less than ideal. So um I'm gonna I'm gonna level with you. James, it sounds absolutely terrible. Well, I mean it has that. I mean my close personal friend Titus Welliver originally recommended this to me. What I've got watching now because Titus Wellever is one of the greatest people who ever lived. And he's even better than Gary Neville. Even better than Gary Neville. I will not I will No, I will not be able to Listen, I will I will not bespurch the good name of Gary Neville. I will have my own. No, no. Gary Neville is a wonderful human being. I love it. Okay, From Titus Well of it when did you speak to T. I did a Q and A for Bosch Legacy. Oh we were chatting. He said oh you should watch From it's really good. So that's why I got stuck. Titus Wellevalt once liked a tweet when I did I did like twelve tweets in my life. And I think it literally did because I love Bosch. Yeah. Oh, okay, I'm a bit jealous of you. I don't think you love Bosch as much as he loves. No, you don't. James James is like Mr. Bosch. Why do you think you love Bosch more than me? Do you know that Titus Wedver is an incredible artist. I didn't know that, no. Well then you don't love Bosch, I don't. You've one up him. Thank you. Yeah. Like ironymous Bosch. Wow, Bosch related one uping. That's quite impressive. You're full of um I know. Bosch of whales. It's just extraordinary. So anyway, from season four. Okay. So I'm watching it. And I I but I c I'm not sure I'm recommending it. I'm just saying that I'm watching it. That's all I'm saying. No, there's gonna be a fifth and final one. Okay. Uh and this one is already going all over the place and it's just I don't know. It's quite rambling. Yeah, I remember enjoying the one episode we actually reviewed when we first started. I think the first series was the best. It was quite height and it was all mystery. Now I'm not sure I'm loving the way it's playing out and it's got a little bit of people have left and come back and other things. Not unlike us. Apparently. But only if you go through a magic lighthouse and a bottle tree. But let's not get into that. The other thing I've been watching is do you remember Wolf Like Me? Oh. Um with Isla Fisher, Josh Gadd. Yes. And they start dating with a werewolf. Yes. Yes. So I watched the whole first season of that. Haven't you said mentioned this again? Well so w season two came back I don't I don't remember when it came back, but we missed it completely. Uh so we didn't review season two. But I started watching the whole world review. Um I'm I'm now starting to understand why, 'cause I really like season one and I've watched the first couple of season two this week and I was a bit like I'm not feeling it. Because at this point they're together, she's pregnant, but she's still a werewolf and obviously that presents problems as well. It's like that film with a freaking werewolves. That film where the um the m what who's in that film? Oh gosh, sorry, sorry, it's a problem. I need more information on stuff. There's that film where the mum is actually a dog. What is that film? Oh yes. It's Amy Amy Amy. Amy Adams. Amy Adams. Uh night bitch. Yeah, it's called Nightbech. It's quite good film. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. It's decent. It's all metaphorical stuff. Yeah. Oh. Okay. But she actually does turn into a dog. Okay, so it's not magical, but she's not a werewolf. No, she's not a werewolf, she just becomes a dog. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna just gonna have to say this guy. You know, like I feel like werewolves are dogs. Yeah, they're part of the same Latin group of animals. She wasn't bitten by a golden retriever. And then became a night bitch. Golden retrievers don't bite people. They're lovely. No, they probably do. Only if provoked. Anyway. Light bees. Yes. Okay. I don't even know where we start. So that was your whole second season. No, no, no, I watched the first two episodes. First of all. How again the workings of your brain. How did you suddenly decide to go back to that show of all shows? Do you know what? I d I think it was something I saw on social media. It's like, Oh my God, I'd forgotten about that show. I was like, I must go and watch some more of that. And I I was like, Oh my god, I should watch season two of that. It is on Prime Video, so you can you can stream both seasons now. And uh and I watched the first couple and I've now stopped. And I don't think I'm going back to it. Well, I've just read that there is no confirmation for season three because they're waiting to see how season two performs and I don't think there's ever going to be seasoning. No, I don't think they're willing to be away a long time from so that was what I watched. Quite randomly. So something I hated, something that was a guilty pleasure, and then something I just stopped. What a week for TV. Yeah, what a week for T. Maybe it was the bees. I don't know. It could be the bees. It could be the bees. Okie dokie. Shall we have this week's listener question? Yes. Okay. Minor spoiler warning here for a whole bunch of shows we're about to talk about. They're all quite old, so it's nothing particularly recent, but we do talk obviously about some arcs and some of the arcs are near the end of the show. So you hear if you hear us start to talk about a show and it's a show that you haven't seen, but you're planning to watch really, really soon. Maybe skip ahead. That's your spoiler warning. Well, this week's listener question comes from Annika. And Annika says. Question for you, Pod. Which TV character do you think has the worst slash most disappointing character arc? For me, I don't I didn't like the general development of Nate's character in Ted Lasso. And I I now can't continue that sentence because that would spoil things for Steph. No, no, I'm telling do you know what? Nate's on the turn. And I'm he started to be a bit snappy. Yes, and that's that's a He's been a bit snappy, he's got he's being a bit mean to people, and I think he's on the turn. Well that's a that's a controversial it's a controversial heel turn for that character. But he's delightful. Yes, he was. Oh, well we won't go into the details of it, but yes, that would that was I think w the most controversial storyline in Ted Laser. People didn't really love that or feel that it was it was fashioned. Was or was he. Anyway, carry on. So there's that, spoiler redacted, Daenerys in Game of Thrones, who quickly became unlikable in the series two. The worst for me though has to be Aiden. From Sex and the City. I was team Aiden all the way through the show, but on and just like that, he's portrayed as gross, selfish, and frankly all round awful. Or was he always like that? I would love to hear your views. Hanukkah. Were you team Aiden, Steph? Um, I loved I loved it in Sex in the City when he broke up with Carrie because she cheated on him and then he got super hot and they got back together. That was the whole I loved that whole storyline. I I think Aidan should have been kept in the past. I don't think he should have been in j in like that. He was infuriating and he's just a bit like he was a bit wet sometimes. I mean, and also his whole his whole storyline didn't make any sense. You know when he was like, You've got to wait five years or all that rubbish. It was just it I did I I really didn't so I totally agree with that. But do you know who else's story arc I I'm gonna controversially say I didn't like from also from Sex in the City. I didn't particularly like Miranda Hobbs um because I think the original finale of Sex in the City if you remember. Uh there's a scene where you know um her partner's m mum that she's found in the streets and it w it's uh Ben Stiller's Ben Stiller's mum who plays the character. Do you remember? And she become she's becomes This 'cause she's thus hard and she gets a softness to her. Obviously she gets a softness when she has her child, but I I mean the f the original finale of Sex and City was one of the greatest finales ever. I'm don't I'm gonna leave that there. We don't need opinions on that because it just is. She she's off to Paris with um Mikhail Barushikov. No, she comes back. That's the whole point. She comes back 'cause he gets her brings her back, doesn't he? Oh, yeah. Didn't she and No no no. The original series finale is she comes she comes back and then she at the end she goes to the coffee house with the girls. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. But it was not but there was a whole Paris element to it, wasn't it? Yeah, it would be a American girl of Paris one or two, yeah. He was a bit of a twat, so she's a terrible taste in men. that character, right? Just Big, I don't even like big. I never liked big. I was like, What are you seeing in this fit? Noth, actually. Yeah. The thing about the big character, if you watch from season one, is he was always an asshole. Yeah. So he actually just stayed like that. And she just really I know we can't we can't get into her choices. She's got fairly lot of problems. Anyway, so I didn't I think Miranda they I don't know, she lost some of her strength and resilience and I found that and I know it's 'cause she was navigating a new world, but I I didn't like that for her. Yeah. 'Cause I really enjoyed her kind of she was she was like This she was the sensible one out of all of them, but also like this hugely intelligent woman who was incredibly accomplished and didn't need any anyone. And then she sort of turned a bit wet and needy and I didn't enjoy that for her. So I would say her. But also I would say I think maybe this person had said that Do you know who what who else is I didn't like? Jamie Game Game of Thrones, Jamie Lannister, what happened to him is really annoying. That's interesting because people do focus on Daenerys quite a lot. But yes, Jamie's Ark is is Arguably the most frustrating. It's really frustrating. Why would he at the end this is why would he at the end stay in the crumbling um the crumbling castle with his with his sister wife? Like why his sister wife. Yeah, but why would he do that? Yeah, it undoes his whole redemption art. He's been going through this redemption art throughout the entire sharp. Yes, and I don't want him to. And then they they reverse the redemption arc at the very end and he goes back to satisfying. After having shagged. Yes, when and he's Bread of Tarth. beautiful and he becomes such he actually becomes a really beloved character. And you're like, he's wonderful. Yeah, of course he he shoved what's his face off the building in the first one. And that's awful. And and then there's that very awful other scene with Cersei, but we won't get into that. But he does become incredibly likable and he becomes noble. And it is what and I don't why would you have to do that at the end? Because is it saying that at his core is actually massive shit? I I don't think it's that. I think the idea was that his obsession with Cersei is just something he can never get away from, that ultimately he's so obsessed with her. Even though he thinks he's broken away from her, he still feels that pull. But it does feel a little bit like you've just undone all this work you've done. What are you doing? It's like a relapse. I think that's really problematic though because he does undo it and he's consistent with his undoing of his tethering to Cersei throughout like at l definitely like the last season. You don't see him being pulled back at all. And it really is just the last bit. And I I don't think that's realistic. I mean not much of that show's realistic, but he is wonderful. Interesting, George R. Martin has said that Jamie Lannister is on a very different path in the books because I think his break from Cersei is much more definitive in the books. And I don't think he had any intention of having a reverse books, don't we? Board makes a very valid point. It's been 15 years. We are never getting the last two votes. So it doesn't really matter. But yes. But there's loads of people have loads of issues with the Game of Thrones um arcs of like pretty much all the characters. The bells. The bells. The Daenerys one is the one people talk about the most. It's like she did this sudden villain turn. And yes, we talked about this quite a lot of the time. And when I when I rewatch it. Because we did have a big argument about it. But When I re-watched it, I was more in your camp about it. What was the crux of the argument? Well, because I was just like she goes from naught to 60. She goes from beloved Danny to screaming sociopath overnight. And I think it's not quite that simple because I think they definitely layer in her madness and that she has hard edges and actually that this is always inside her. I think ultimately what com it comes down to is that the final season is so rushed and so truncated. That it it you you have a gr very gradual art which then suddenly accelerates dramatically. And so then it it doesn't ring true because it happens too quickly. It needed to be more evened out. Oh I'd agree with that. Because when she's when she's on the dragon and she starts literally just burning people. Yeah at the end. You're like oh. Oh and that does feel like oh all of a sudden it feels like s uh you know a a flip has switched a switch. A switch has like flipped and it and it isn't gradual enough. It isn't. early enough to boy that's the th the thing is that boy does that. Like when boy when the bells ring, Boyd just goes like you just don't know what's gonna happen. He'll set you on fire and he won't even think twice about it. That's true. I also think it's quite annoying that Cersei in the end c tries to be nice and she's not Well Cersei's demise was very was just badly handled as well. I would say completely like completely thrown away. She's absolutely, you know Brilliant, brilliant. Spoilers for Game of Thrones, by the way. I mean who's gonna Watch you know, it's not a desperately scrambling to watch the whole of Game of Thrones and the House of the Dragon in time at the start of the new season. Okay, well you should just re we we should all rewatch it 'cause I mean the game of Thrones. I've already rewatched it once I'm gonna go to the end. There's one on the cusp I am actually thinking about it. You should do it. You should do it. I love a game of Because the Game of Thrones, whenever it's on, I always watch it whatever episode and totally like Yeah, I'm totally there again. I mean I've said it before, I'll say it again, it is brilliant from that point of view. The the the the the superiority of it can be ascertained while I was speaking about this. Who's the like the c the boxer. What's his name? Chris Eubank. Chris Eubank speaks in flowery language. Um but uh I do think I I think you're right. If you stumble upon a random episode of Game of Thrones, it's always brilliantly written, isn't it? And and that does Yeah, separated from a lot of other frankly shoddier fantasy shows. I don't know what it feels like. Do not come for the wheel of time or I will go full Daenerys on you. I knew what you were thinking. Uh so yeah. Okay, that's that's a good shout. Any any you would like to add, Wayne? I am going to say the entire female cast of Euphoria. I think this is fair. I think this is fairly. Well, so I read an interesting piece on this, and they were talking about how euphoria has always been misogynistic and the it's always exploited its female characters. However, when it was in the context of a school. you kind of allowed it because it conformed to high school tropes and stereotypes that we're all too familiar with. But when they're adults in the outside world, it just feels grim and exploitative in a way that it didn't previously. So it's almost like it's laid bare the misogyny. And also it's more than that. They're putting Sam Livinson, the creator I by the way, I have not watched episode four, and some a lot I've had of quite a few people message me saying Uh episode four is the best episode so far of the season 'cause we had episode one to three to watch critics like us and episode one to three to watch in advance, but they didn't send more than that, which is interesting in in itself. So I haven't seen episode four and maybe it is better, but I have actually I do know vaguely what happens in it. Um it's just the putting like Ruse and Deya, who's absolutely brilliant, of course, and she completely she's one of the most brilliant actress in the world at making anything she does you feel for her and you relate to her all of that. She's but what they're putting her through, a poor character. It's just excruciating. It's not and it's so It it's more that every female character is considered fodder for him to shock us as to what they're being put through and what they put themselves through. Whether it's the OnlyFans story, which is now already a cliche, 'cause there's about three other shows that are also doing OnlyFans type material in their storylines. Exactly. And sh but there's there's also like the the whole drug mule thing was excruciating to watch. And it's like you're put you it doesn't do that with the male characters. I mean people are Jacobin Lord's character, what happens to him at the end of episode three is not nice. Right. Um try not to spoil it if you haven't caught up yet. But it's different. There's something different about the way he treats the female characters in in in this season from before. And actually I don't even think I I I think, you know, like Rue's always been she was she's a a has a addict addiction. Addiction issues. Addiction issues. But I think she was always very dealt with in a she was always a three dimensional character for me. And very real and she had, you know, issues but she tried to overcome them and I I just thought that they've completely Up till now, up to the the third s uh uh episodes that I've seen, the three episodes I've seen, they've for me ruined her character as well. So I am open to see what happens to the rest of the series, but that that's what came to mind in answer to this question was pretty much every female character in Euphoria, not just Rue but other others as well. Sidney Sweeney, you know, her OnlyFans storyline. It's just a bit basic and obvious. So yeah, there we go. That's my feeling right now. Apologies to Euphoria Die Hards who's still Oh you'll get messages. I have a few I have a few honorable mentions on this. Of course, there are always it. Richard Schiff. has been very vocal about Toby's turn towards the end of the West Wing when you know when he The the incident involving the space shuttle. Yeah. Yeah. Where he where he turns out he's the leak in the White House. Yeah. It's like the whole leak thing. And he was just furious about it. So furious about it. I talked to John Wells about this, and John Wells kind of John Wells got a little irritated when I when I he's like, Oh, Richard was never happy and he was just like but Richard Schiff was heartbroken because he felt that was a betrayal of the character because that's just something the character would never have And I always thought, I'm not sure that's true. The idea that the so the idea is that there's uh that the astronauts are stranded on the space station and there's no shuttle can go and get them and he there's basically a military shuttle and he reveals the existence of the military shuttle, so they have to send it up to get the astronauts, thereby sort of violating uh whatever national secret tax they've got. Um, but his brother was an astronaut and his brother died. His brother killed himself. So I kind of thought actually it I didn't think it was that big a stretch that he would be so invested in the welfare of these astronauts, kind of projecting his brother onto them, that actually maybe he would have done that. So I actually didn't think it's but I just don't think it was particularly well executed. I don't think it was well handled. So I think it was the end of the world for the character. But I think Way it was done. Maybe not ideal. The other thing is, and again, sorry, we're rolling out the greatest hits of things that I always talk about, but you know, Terry isn't here, but if she were here, she would say spikes arc. in Buffy the Vampire Splayer. Never watched him. His shocking. His obsession with Buffy, which culminates in him trying to rape her in one episode, is so ill thought out. It just you it c makes that character irredeemable from that point. And you know, he'd actually been a really 'cause James Mars plays that character really well. But I think that particular episode is really hard to watch and it's just a horrible, horrible storyline. So I don't like that. Um Deb and Dexter. You remember Dexter, his sister? Dead, Jennifer Carpenter. They get shipped in season six. where they become obsessed with each other or she, I think more with him. And it's like, who thought that was a good idea in the writers' room? I thought you literally meant they got shipped off. On a boat. They get shipped together. Ship. That's you know, like shipped together, yeah. Genuinely terrible. Can't stand that. That's very, very upsetting. Uh, and also stranger things. You know like when Jonathan becomes like a feckless stoner. Yeah. And you're just like Who thought that was a good story? He's uh played by um Charlie He. Charlie And he said that was terrible. And that's also I think it's around the same time because when they they go to California isn't it, where Mike in season three just becomes a massive knob. You know? So Phil Morfart's character, who has been kind of the emotional core of the show, he's essentially the de facto lead. He becomes this colossal Bell M. When he moves to California. And honestly, I'm not sure ever really comes back from that. He's pretty much a dick all the way through after that. And I just I don't know why that character suddenly becomes a novel. I think he's redeemed in in the se the final season, isn't he? Yeah, he's called. I mean, there's still some Bell Energy going on. Teenagers do, you know, do do have phases. He's a dick to his friends. He goes off his friends. He's a dick to his girlfriend, and El's having really bad time and he's a shitty boyfriend as well. And he just becomes really obnoxious and punchable. And I just didn't I yeah, I don't know why they they did that. I just thought of another one. Did you watch do you both watch Sons of Anarchy? Did you ever I actually think Gemma, the mum, I don't didn't like how her story ended actually I I know what you mean, actually. I know exactly what you're around to, yes. I'm scored about five other shows, but yes. No, you're right. I think Gemma was ill served in that. And the way she goes out, I'm not sure that rang true. Oh, I it That would not have happened. There's no way. It it and it was just It's complete yeah, I mean we can't talk about it without saying exactly what happened. But yeah, I would say that that's she should deserve it. No, I think it's you're supposed to understand that he lives in a world that's governed by certain immutable rules. And you cannot violate those rules and then that's just what happens. And she understands that. She understands that as you see in that scene. Yeah. Uh that we're not gonna be we're not gonna go into, but as you see in that scene, but it's still It was I don't know. It wasn't the kind of ceremony that she should have gone out she shouldn't have gone out like that. It shouldn't have happened like that. No, yeah, that was actually making me feel even more disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. I stopped watching it after a couple of seasons. Not not not because I didn't like it, I liked it. I just Right, and it just didn't fit into my uh now we've told you what happened in the end. Boyd hasn't listening, I'm still. Boyd had a whole season of Love Rat to watch, so there was no way he finds on the runky so um anyway, we've gone off top. Yeah, it's not as good as a shield though, which is better. No, that's true. I don't remember what the topic was. It's hard to say. Thank you. It was character arcs. Oh yeah. That's right. Good. Right, that rambling nonsense was the listener question. If you would like your listener question answered. I'm gonna say email pilottv at empirmagazine.com. And the reason I'm gonna say that is because the new email address, postbag at pilottv pod dot com, doesn't seem to work for everyone. And I've got our IT department looking into it, but I don't know what's happening there. So if you have had bounce back and whatnot, please revert to pilottv at empiremagine.com. It's twenty twenty six, and we can't get a mailbox. Yes. No, I know. Genuinely true. We're in we're in like AI territory and we can't even get a mailbox. We can't we can't get emails. Okay. But yes, if you would like to send stuff in, that is, for the time being, the address. Okay, shall we have this week's guest? I think we should, since he came in to see us especially it's none other than the legendary Mr. Steven Coogan, who can be seen in the moment in Legends on Netflix, which is a 1990 set show in which Coogan puts together a team. customs officials and sends them deep, deep, deep, deep, deep undercover to root out drugs gangs. And it's very, very good. And we enjoyed it and reviewed it on The Last Pilot Plus. Now Steve popped into the office recently, into our studio to chat with Boydy while I sat quietly and worked the desk. It was lovely. It was lovely. This is Steve Coogan talking to Boyd. Hello, Steve Coogan. Welcome to the Pilots View Podcast. How are you this day? I'm very well. Good. Um we're here to talk ostensibly about legends, new Netflix. Comedy drama? Jama? What you what do you think? No, definitely not a comedy drama. No, I'd that would that would s somehow It's uh Definitely a drama, but like all Good drama. Uh it there are laughs along the way. But uh no, comedy Yeah. I mean you'll you'll there's some books where you laugh at it. Yeah. There's there's good some good lines in it, but um I wouldn't describe it as a comedy drama. No. But the fact that let me say you as Don, you play this character, Don, I think it's an amalgam of different real people. Yeah. I mean the series is about undercover power undercover customs officers who bust this heroin in uh Uh late eighties, early nineties. So um I yeah, I played I played on this sort of uh Guy. Yeah. What was the original question? Actually came to me with this story and the script. Well offered me the part of Don and um he uh is based on these real events that happen all these years ago. But he um he uh as in all these things storytelling for the sake of uh not making a story unwieldy. Uh several characters are sort of combined into one, which is the character I play, Don Head of Customs. Uh as a writer myself, uh, sometimes if you're doing a real story, if you depicted everyone who had uh a say in the events, um yeah, it wouldn't be an hour hour of drama, it'd be six hours of drama for each episode. And uh you lose track of who's saying what. So for storytelling reasons. I am um amalgam of some real people. And the events are real. And uh some characters are more closely based on, for example, um Tom's character guy, Tom Burke players guy. And that is based on a on an individual. Right. But it struck me your character Don is like the guy he's almost like the kind of Charlie in Charlie's Angels. He's kind of a in charge of this group. of people and he kind of he's quite he's very self comp he's got he's got leadership quality to him. I mean basically you do get all the best lines I think as well, quite rightly um because he's he there's a s there's a charisma to him is there and there's a kind of um almost a bit a bit um competency porn as well to use that. phrase about him that he knows what he's doing and he knows that knowledge very well. Yeah, I it's nice to I mean, yeah, there is a kind of a uh A man of few words who just gets on with it. vanishing breed of uh old school sort of meat and potatoes. Um guys from a working class background who'd uh who you know, people who who can fix things and put things together and just practical and have common sense and are resourceful 'cause they have to be. Um So he represents so for for me he was quite a familiar character to play because there are that is that generation of men. who could turn the hand to most things and were quite Disciplined, hard working. Um And learn yeah, at the Inversive Commons University of Life. Yes. Uh rather than uh being sort of graduate uh those graduate law enforcement people who've taken over in the last thirty years for probably for very good reasons, but sometimes you you can't help feeling that we're throwing the baby out with the bath water and we could do with a bit more common sense and uh practicality. back in the in the in law enforcement agencies. So so Don is uh Yeah, it's someone I feel really familiar with. And um uh is someone who is perhaps not uh would I'm trying how to phrase this. Probably wouldn't be in line with current uh HR protocols. Yes. But nevertheless beneath the sort of uh slightly abrasive exterior. uh you know that he's someone who gives a damn about people and their welfare and looks out for the people in his in his Uh charge. And um and uses humour as a way of communicating and uh uh showing affection. Um as a lot of generation of working class men do, uh which is that um might not be the most uh emotionally open. In fact they're probably quite a bit repressed. Uh but they they do uh express their affection through through humour and sometimes sport. He has got a he's got he's a he's a northern a proper northerner, working class northerner, and it's c it strikes me as being quite rare actually for you, weirdly. to do an accent that is more or less your own accent, even perhaps slightly even more working class than you are now. Yeah. It's sort of my unfiltered uh I mean I I I I I'm from Manchester, um If if I go back to Manchester they think I sound posh. If I hang out with some of my posh fans, they think I sound working class. So uh it sort of depends uh where I am, but you know, I I did I went to Dharma School and they sort of they smooth off the r rough edges and uh I mean I used to do full on received pronunciation. I mean I used to say, you know, now there's even more for your money. Fantastic. Um So it's not breaking any kind of advertising protocol. I mean that's sort the that's that's what I used to do. I used to have that I learned to do things in that. And and then I I sort of went off and did various things in comedy and But none of them are really northern. Uh What happened for some years. I I diped my toe into stuff way back in the past. But uh so I hadn't played any roles. I played a lot of real people, then I played like uh ten or eleven real people. Um But none of them have been northern. But I was uh it was one of those uh itches that I wanted to scratch uh was to uh play someone closer to my own background. Uh and some and a character I d like I say, I did feel familiar with. You know, I I've known lots of um that generation of uh of men uh from northern north northern working class men who are professionally very competent and and uh in a meritocratic way got to the top of their professions. And uh the the they uh the the I feel like they have this sort of it this sort of common sense coupled with this integrity. Um but they don't take themselves too seriously either. Yes. So it it it felt like a very, very comfortable territory for me. And uh in fact uh it was Enjoyable to play because I felt like it was just putting on an old jacket or something. Something that I felt comfortable and lived in. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also interesting to see him uh to see you in the middle of what it is it it would have been like p a police procedural or you know if it it's involving customs officers rather than the police. But it's interesting to see you in that context and then you know there's action, there's car chases, there's you're confronted by a dodgy villains it's interesting to you in that world. It's not my normal territory and that's what interested me as well, because I thought well I quite like to I like the fact that I'm I get to do different things and I can move around a bit and I You know uh Some people make a career of doing the same thing over and over and It's the way to m it's the way to get rich. Um but uh uh but you also can become pigeonhole typecast and I I'm I like the fact that I'm able to move around, don't stand still long enough to be boxed in. Uh so so and I hadn't I always look at police police procedurals, as they call them. Where people have to explain spend a lot of their dialogue explaining the plot. Yes. And a lot of their dialogue explaining what's just happened for any viewers who are too slow enough to keep up with the what's going on. And uh I I'd say that's something. God please don't ever let me do that stuff when you're just having to It's like offloading goods, not saying dialogue, you're just sort of trying to communicate information. Um But then it and I've ended up in one. But there was a bit more meat on the bone to this. I like the fact that there was irreg it's the irregularities. Nothing wrong with police procedurals or th stuff like that. I mean, but everyone likes it. You know, everyone likes to know if there's a who done it, you know, everyone likes to engage and think. try and get ahead of the game and and tax their you know grey matter. So um uh but uh this one was different in that the it concentrated a lot on character. And uh the script was good and sharp and I like the fact that uh uh Don had uh this wits to him. I felt like I got a handle on him very quickly. So um so yeah, I ended up doing something I didn't think I'd do. And uh I I enjoyed it. I've had so I watched it with my partner and she and I Yeah. Actually wanted to watch the next episode and uh because it's a long time since I've d I've done it, uh I I started to become engaged in it and actually started buying into the jeopardy uh of uh of the characters. Uh and you knew what was happening next. Yeah. But you sort of you get drawn into it and then you forget and then because it's Yeah, a yeah since she did it and you start to get into the whole uh experience of it. And I really, really enjoyed uh just uh thinking, oh no, they're in trouble. And and then suddenly I'd walk into the scene and I think, Oh no, it's just it's just a drama on TV and and I and I'm in it. Yes. I do think new for stuff is really clear at telling true stories and which involve normal people, often normal working class people. And that's kind of one of his strengths of the gold, I think did that. Yes, it did indeed. Yeah. What kind of stuff do you I was gonna ask you, you you know, you sat and watched it with your partner. What kind of stuff do you w are you c are you a consumer of you know Prestige TV and on streamers, etc. Yeah, I like to watch uh you know, I remember what was the last two big Things that I mean. Yeah, I I got hooks on succession. I should tell these people. I've always been asked. I can never remember what it is I watch, but um you know, I w I do watch sort of like what most people watch. I normally watch like history programmes on BBC and on on iPlayer. And then I sort of f you know go around and see what's on Netflix, see if there's any new interesting document. I'm a bit of a documentary. sort of consumer. I like docs before I watched uh my Or I just go back and start watching things like old Hitchcock movies that I haven't actually seen, really obscure ones. I like to wat I like to sort of uh start to dive into old Western's kind of like well I did I told I think I've spoken about this on I talked to Louis, I really got into Foyle's war. Which is something I never watched first time around. 'Cause it was a bit too prosaic and pedestrian for me. And then the things that I found perhaps that made me overlook it the first time round, I really enjoyed the fact that it's just a nice warm bath drama that's not got horrible people in it. And no only one person a week gets murdered. And uh the world just it se it seems like a nice uh nice place to be. Yeah, absolutely. I I I I'm I'm not quite there yet, but I can almost see the appeal of Last of the Summer Wine. So that's how old I'm getting. You've got like a hundred and fifty episodes of that in your future to enjoy. Yeah. Fantastic. Talking of Prestige TV, there you it was has been rumored, I don't think it's been officially confirmed, that you're in the white lotus. I am. I am about to fly out next week shooting that. Can you say anything about that at all? I've read the script and they are I mean, I watched the first two series and I thought I mean that's that's something that I watched. I mean I watched those. I hadn't watched the f third season, but I really enjoyed it. I really liked and uh Mike White, you know, years ago did some independent movies that I really like. He did a film called Chuck and Buck about thirty years ago. Brilliant. And it was really great. I remember it stayed with me. I thought this this guy's amazing. And uh so And uh I think I did I remember watching the second season thinking, Why don't they get me in this series? I'd be I'd be great for it. Um and then Yeah, so I got a phone call from him a few months ago saying do you want do you want to you know, saying that they they wanted me in the next season. And um So I've read it and it's I think it's funny. Uh it's it's as good as the other ones. It's like w what you'd expect, but I can't go into detail, but basically set in a hotel and lots of different people interact in unusual and unexpected ways and there's some misbehaviour. And it's uh uh it's uh and there's some you know explicit stuff and it's fun and interesting and yeah, all that. So I was gonna say that he is the there is explicit sexual action in most of it. Well I I'm ch I I will be challenged in in my performance uh and go go to places I haven't been before. But I'm uh I'm I'm I'm looking forward to doing that in a very professional way. I cannot wait. Is he an Alan Parish fan, do you know, Mike? Um I think he's in the bot I mean y yes. I mean I can't imagine he's not because of the producers loved it. But th I think they mentioned the trip and twenty four hour party people. Interestingly enough, twenty four hour party people in the US. has this cult following that it never really had here. I mean some people know about it here, but it it if Anyone edgy or cool or stoned in the US. generally says, hey, you're from you're in 24 party people and that that's all they want to talk about. I remember I spent an evening with chatting with this guy. Um and uh he was he asked me everything he spent like the best part of an hour just grilling me about twenty four hour party people in the end he said, Oh I'm in a band I said, Oh you uh and he never I never asked him anything about him. I said oh are you doing all right? Yeah we're doing okay. I said, Well what's your what's your band call? What did you do in the band? Oh I'm the singer. Oh well and mate I'll look out for you. What's your name? He said uh that we're called Kings of Leon. Oh, okay. I've heard of you. Yeah, you're doing okay. So that that movie uh is so I think Tony Wilson though because they wouldn't even know who Tony Wilson is. Well they know that they know all the bands. And people who have got anglophiles over there like that music which is off kilter, which is left of centre. Yes. Uh LA and New York, you know. That's where that film landed. But the people who who are into the it weirdly, the guys the I'm starting to find out now as I get older that producers and people who are making interesting stuff are hiring me because when they were at college or school they watched my stuff and now they're they're now they're becoming movers and shakers. Yeah. And they they're giving me gigs. And this is one of those. I'm very very grateful. It's you know It's paying off. Finally. Finally. Um I was at the RTS all the last week when you quite rightly won for uh Alan Partridge for um the brilliant How Are You it's Alan Partridge series. And you got Bafter nominated um as well. Yeah, that's nice. It's brilliant. You're still getting recognition that how good that character is and how brilliant that Well I'm I'm I'm glad and I think uh uh I'm I hope Yeah, the myself and the Rob and Neil Gibbons and the team that make it, we uh We d we do uh we are our own worst critics and we make sure that the quality's there. We never phone it in, we always you know We throw away more than we use? And uh we make sure it passes muster that we think uh would we want to watch it and and so to get a nod is pretty good, given that we're uh There's a danger of thinking, well, you know, we've won plenty of awards before. Why not you know give someone else a chance. It didn't win, but it's nominated for Best Scripts of Comedy, I think. And and I think it's I I'd rather that had won and I hadn't. 'Cause Rob and Neal, who writes it, are really sort of purist and quite dedicated to making sure the quality is up there and it's never been better. And so I I It's nice to get an odd and it's a character that I don't think I'll ever fully abandon. People have stopped saying are you gonna kill the character off 'cause And uh in a way, you know, ha ha ha had had I not had any of the gig, I'm I I would be more likely to have killed it off. But because I'm able to do this other stuff that keeps my interest, then going back to partridge is always a pleasure. And and it's something we do through choice, not because we we have to. So I think now the other characters like Lynn and um Psychic Simon for in the in the last series was s that just the stuff on them is fantastic. They've become well almost as great characters. Well as great characters as well. Yeah, L Lin Lyn and uh well uh Valesti Montague and um And uh uh um uh Tim Key. Simon Denton. Um Uh it's him great success with the ballad of Olis Island, of course. Great to see him like bloom like a uh uh a flower. Um been heading in that direction. It's like it was a perfect movie for him. Um yeah. So we'll all I mean next thing we do, we sort of want to bring those characters back and forth. What we do is we s we only show little bits of those characters so it kinda like leaves the audience sort of sort of sal makes the audience salivate a bit, thinking, Come on, we want a bit more of that. Well I think that whatever we do next time we'll we'll definitely bring a bit more. If as long as Tim hasn't priced himself. uh out of uh our with his newfound success. That tete tete scene in it between the two of you over Drinking tea in the in the radio outside the radio show. That was like De Niro, you know, Pacino for me in Heat. Yeah, it was that was he's really good at that uh uh that stuff. It's just uh It's great when you work with people who who know what they're doing and You know, and and I can honestly say, even now after all these years, you know, I Alan Partige still I still find the character funny and still have ideas for him and he's just become a sort of um a mechanism to talk about stuff that's increasingly difficult to talk about. Uh But Alan Alan's still a kind of safe space to to you can sort of talk about almost anything if you do it through Alan. Um that's why mental we chose mental health for last series, 'cause you know, most people go, Well you shouldn't make fun of that. And well well, we're not making fun about it. We're laughing. through it and around it and with it. We're not laughing at it. Yeah. So um yeah. Absolutely. We run out of time. Thank you so much, Steve. Could talk all day. I guess all day to you. Thank you so much. Thanks for and congratulations on legends. Thank you. Thank you. That was Steve Gugan. And time now for this week's news. Now. Before we begin news, we have certain rules. There are rules for this podcast. And these rules, these rules govern what we are and are not allowed to talk about. And we have a safe space, we have a a kind of an amnesty zone, which is the what we've been watching section, whereby you guys can talk about all this nonsense reality bullshit. Uh and I can't do anything about it. Now normally we would not allow any of that nonsense to infiltrate the news section as per noing as a the bylaws of this particular house. However, in this particular instance I shall give you a limited amount of latitude to talk about celebrity trades. I didn't realise, James I did not realise you were such a Jerry Hall fan. Yeah. I mean it's exciting. Yeah. I come on, Jake. The lineup is fantastic. Patrick Stewart is not in it. He's not. And that was our that was your that was your rule that you were gonna say. Michael Sheen's in it, Miranda Hart's in it. My harlow from Industry isn't it? Richard E Grant is in it. It's a grella Ramsey isn't it. I'm getting there. I was leaving it to the end. Oh well, and Bella Ramsey. What but let me what is really interesting about this cost. It's for me. I think and it and it's a has broader implications for the industry as a whole, which is sort why we should be discussing it. in this on this podcast is they've got a whole load of really respected and admired and successful young actors like my harla, like Sebastian Croft, Sharon Rooney, Robin Romish. Robin Romish, but but I'm talking about and Bella Ramsey, all of whom perfectly successful careers without being on the subject traces. And I think this is the whole revolution in the world of reality TV because this particular show is so respected and admired in the world of reality TV. You can't dismiss it as just another reality show. It's so brilliant in and of itself. that these young actors who are very credible and talented are happy to do it. And they're not looking down on it like certain snobbish people would. And so you've got like Bella Rams but y it's but the intrinsic the re the whole point is they like the format. They like the show. They love doing and they love the idea of being a part of it. And that's what's happening with these brilliant actor. So I would say Bella Ramsley, particularly my whole almost even more. I was like wow that for her agent so you know she's in industry and she's brilliant in industry. You're now gonna get like six more state of the industries just from this uh you know your little section that you used to do just from celebrity traitors to talk about her. Absolutely amazing. It's gonna be incredible. Thank you, yeah. Um so I just find the whole thing fascinating. You've got it's a whole that that is a big, big change in um in the whole world of reality TV, but I think it is Particularly due to this show. I don't think you know I don't think we're gonna start s suddenly seeing, you know, Beller Ramsey in Big Brother or the equivalent. I think it's because this show's so brilliant and enticing. Let's put it that way. It is. It is, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Well I don't know sitting around studying proof. They are studying Bruce. Well they I can't. They if they want. But but it is it is more it you know it's there's I don't think it's the s sorry to interrupt. I don't think it's the cerebralness that is the key. I think it's the addictiveness of the Of the whole idea of having people in your midst who you can't trust and you don't know the extension. That's i it it's such a seductive format. It's not I would say, rather than being cerebral, I would say it's not quite the level of brain rot that a lot of this reality stuff is. So so Cerebro might be overstating something, but I I do get what you're saying. There it there's feels like there is a sheen of quality and engagement to it that is not just watching Big Brother where people are just being idiots. Oh my God, you love reality TV. I really don't. But um So the question is though, with with one of your favourite young actresses, Bella Ramsey, from The Last of Us in it, are you going to watch it? He's thinking. I I'm not ruling it out. Oh, okay. That's good. Okay. Is that are you happy with the amount of time that we spent in the spent far too much time. Okay, we're just talking about it. I on behalf of, you know, everyone who doesn't like reality TV, I I'm just apologising to all of you. But let's just it has got better Ramsy in it, so that is exciting. Yeah. So you're saying it's tangential last of us season three news. Oh completely. Okay. Um did you guys know that neighbours the early years is returning to screens in a four hundred and twenty episode deal? Did you know that? What? Just saying Neighbours is coming back back. So so I opened the door to reality TV and now we're just letting soaps in as well. The whole news section's gone to shit. Do they? Yes. I mean it was where Kylie started, so uh it was where Margot Robbie started as well. There's a lot of great people who've come out neighbours. So they're just they're just They're just making available old episodes. Yes. It was a whole palava, there are loads of stars in it, weren't there, who'd been in it before. And then it wasn't the final episode. Yeah, it was a bit embarrassing. Anyway it's coming back. Well right, do we have any on brand Yes, here we go. Line of Duties, Daniel Mays. It's gonna be it is channel five drama, but it is listen, it's Daniel Mays, though. Believe me's Daniel Mays. Huh? Believe we're about to review the. I thought you just said the bees' knees, Daniel May. Hold on, Game of Phones Joel Fry. is in it and Happy Valley's Amit Shah and it's gonna be they're starring in this thing called Wild, which is a dramedy. It's in the Scottish Highlands. Three three friends on a camping trip. It's got Daniel Mays in it. Come on, it'll be brilliant. Okay. Boyd. Variety. We're I'm indebted to Variety, the Shapers Bible, who do you remember last week we were talking about the white lotus and um the fact that uh Helen Bonham Carter Left the show after a week. And what Variety's done is they have 'Cause remember I was saying it was confusing as to whether the the Laura Dern who was who's drafted into plate new coach was was taking over from Helen and Bono Carter or not. Blah blah blah. It's quite quite confusing and complicated. What variety's done, they've done a whole big feature Thankfully, 'cause they've got they've got the budget for this. They've basically sent loads of people to where they're filming the White Lotus in the south of France. To the actual hotels where they're talking to people who are like may or may not are trying to be in the show as extras. They're talking about, you know, the the whole the fact that that that it's being filmed against the backdrop of the Cannes Film Festival, which starts quite soon. So I think The whole thing is that um Mike White, the writer director of the White Loves is gonna be using that backdrop of the C of the actual Cann Film Festival this year. while he's filming his his characters, his created characters quite clever idea. But what I wanted to say was um they talked about um the Helen of Boncato uh im Broglio as I'm calling it. And and they say White had written a washed out star, the character of a washed out star who's chasing a comeback. And that role was set for Helen O Bonham Carter. She left after nearly a week onset over creative differences involving Mike White's demand for a boisterous performance from her. He wanted her to be more boisterous, which I find absolutely hilarious. Uh, obviously she said no. She was gonna be more boisterous. She's been re replaced in quotes by Laura Dern, but Laura Dern is playing a character that White is still developing, who will fill a similar place within the ensemble. So different character, but filling a similar role. It's quite confusing, isn't it? Um But there you go. I I uh it it it's just incredibly exciting that it's being filmed as we speak, and why the hell aren't I being sent on a set visit by Empire magazine to cover it? I really don't know. Um, James, I've got some news for you. Okay. Have you Have you heard about Warhammer 40K? I I'm familiar. Yes. Okay, so sun there's a headline here which says that it's going to make the expanse and foundation look small. How do you feel about I mean, I don't know that it could make foundation looks small. The Warhammer 4000 mythology is vast and sweeping. Is it? Yes. Can you give me the crux of it? In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war. That is the Warhammer ethos. Oh well it's all like Primarch and Chaos and and Eternal Emperor and all sorts of stuff going on. It's quite it's quite bleak. I'm quite excited about this. So Henry Cavill when he left the Witcher to go and do Superman and that didn't work out, he sort of fell into the job as to all about the creative director of all things Warhammer, although nothing has yet come out. Uh and so I'm fascinated to know how he fits into this whole Warhammerse and what shows, films, things that we get out of it. Uh I I'm I have a a real I'm not really into the figures or the games so much, although I was when I was a teenager. No surprises there. Um But I love the livery of it all with the space marines and the Elder. I think it just looks really cool. So I'm I'm pretty up for anything they do, Warhammer wise. Forty thousand anyway. Yes. Okay. That's exciting. I was I was scared you were gonna go crazy then. Okay. Um Oh, did you see Amer the American hostage, j um the picture of John Hamm? Um as the podc reprises Podcast R and the Night Agent. Oh yes. Look. Show me to show you the picture. As Fred Heckman. Okay. Okay. Oh yeah. Um give me some context for this picture. Okay, here we go. So he is a beloved radio reporter who interviews a hostage taker in the nineteen seventies. Oh nice. Based on the first season of the scripted American Hostage podcast, the series dramas dramatises a real world incident in nineteen seventy seven. Oh my God, that's gonna be amazing. Which returns John Hamm to a role he previously performed for the scripted podcast of the same name, this time in live action. That is so exciting. I have never listened to American Hostage, you'll be shocked to hear. Okay, it's gonna be good. And he looks that's a great picture. Well Steph is very excited about that new story. Yes, I am. Yes. I love John Helm. Oh well yeah, there was a funny there was a funny story about um this is my you know you know I like to do uh Great headline. Oh yeah, let's watch your headline of the week. David Letterman slams CBS as lying weasels for cancelling the late show with Stephen Colbert. due to financial decision. Yeah, did you see that Barack Obama said to him, You should just run for president now 'cause everybody loves Stephen Colbert. And if and listeners to uh Pilot Plus will know that I did some of the Colbert questioner um questions on our beloved James, didn't I? You did, that's true. You you fiendishly pounced on me with Stephen Colbert questions. Stephen Colbert, of course, being the voice of the uh the sort of like computer thing. Yeah, whenever whenever an announcement goes out of the channel it's saying that someone's It's run out that's Steven Colbert. And Britt Marling does the voice of the computer. Oh god. Talking about Brit Marling w what's when's the next thing gonna be announced? Who knows? I don't have an inside track. But I do think that is the end of news. So let's move on to the great big reviews jamboree. Let me tell you how this works. So we put in requests for the three shows we're going to cover this week. Boydy, of course, got them all. Uh Steph and I did not. So we had a last minute scramble to try and work out what was going to happen. So essentially and then of course a random episode of the Bear dropped as we record last night. Yes. So we were like, Well, throw that into the mix as well. So what we're gonna do is I'm just gonna pick a person and you're just gonna pick a show that you've seen and you're gonna review it. Because at this stage it's unclear to me who has seen what, but I know everyone hasn't seen everything. The only show I know all three of us had definitely seen is Believe Me. on ITV. Yes. Now. So why don't we begin there? Because that's one that we've all seen. Okay. Okay? So this is From the mind of Jeff Pope. And it's a a four part dramatization of the hunt for the black cab rapist, who I'm in two minds as to whether or not I actually want to name. Uh but suffice it to say he's in prison where he deserves to be. And I Did not particularly want to watch this because I thought I would find it very upsetting. Um however, it is, and to be fair to to to Kay, she said on the WhatsApp group, she said that this was the case. It is, as I think they should be, a very victim centric story, and it is less about the black cap rapist himself and more about the police failings in actually joining the dot together, believing the women and their work. I mean it's thought to be about Potentially out as many as a hundred women were attacked by this person. Five hundred five. Because it's over ten years, isn't it? horrific story and I remember it at the time. And also the debunkle where he was nearly released from prison on parade, but that's a whole other thing. Uh this is very much your arena, Steph. So I want to get your take on Believe me, which I believe you've seen every single episode of. I watched every so there's so four part uh every episode's about fifty, fifty four minutes. It's Yeah, this is incredible. And what is great about this, um Should we not mention his name? I don't think we need to. Yeah, I don't think we need to because A the show is not about him. But the thing that I I kind of almost the question I had in my mind that I wanted to ask you going to this before I watched it was How is it okay to In my head, not so much glamorise, but but to give the notoriety to these people who do these terrible things by making TV shows about them. And I was very gratified to feel after watching this that that is not what this show set out to do and not what it did. They've done this incredibly well. Okay, so uh the irony of I should not mention his name is uh the person in the black curator. Rapist himself actually has changed his name and doesn't even refer to himself. And there is a scene in in there where that's that's addressed. So uh what this centers on is this centers centers on uh Three women, uh two mainly really, who um eventually uh bring a case against the Metropolitan Police. They are attacked and in when they initially report the crime, um police mishandle it so gratuitously um and they are left with the the lasting scars and it's really a story about their kind of endurance and how they get to a point where their immense bravery and how being so courageous to get to point where it's revealed to them a lot of the failings that they weren't even aware of. And they actually bring a case which this isn't a spoiler, which they do win, are they um against the Metropolitan Metropolitan Police. I when I watched the first one I thought Oh god James is never gonna get through this but What they don't do, which I think is w is what you're alluding to, is they don't actually in terms of the amount of screen time Daniel May's character gets, who plays the Black Carry, it's actually it's actually minimal. It's really minimal. And some things are even when there's an attack scene um you don't really see him very m very much and you're sort of given um the the the scenes with the women's faces and and actually he I I I I'd love to know actually how many minutes 'cause it's really not very much at all, which I think is been done really incredibly well. Um, this case has cut he's he's actually up for a pro. There's been a big There's been a big thing because he's actually up for a parole hearing in June of this year. So I was looking into this anyway, and he was gonna there was gonna be a public hearing and people have and some of the victims have lobbied against there being a public hearing and now he's gonna have this parole uh hearing in private. And a lot of this is about His rights and their rights and how these women it's it's so painful to watch. It's so painful to watch these victims go through the process of not only having had this terrible experience, how they are dealt with afterwards. Is is harrowing and it is really difficult to watch and you're just thinking how you you feel really immersed in the in in their mind and how they can't they're not believed and it's it's torturous. It's absolutely torturous to watch. But the two the two actresses are incredible. Sorry, let me just say their names. So Isaiah Ashar who plays Layla and Amy Fion Edwards who plays Sarah and th these are not these women's real names. What it does really well is the impact on their lives afterwards and what they have to go through because Um, Amy Fiona Edwards character, she's the first in the first episode they focus mostly on her. It's ruin it ruins their lives and it and continues to do so in many ways and it makes you stop. It makes you stop and think and In the final episode. They give some statistics. And the statistics are absolutely shocking. I don't want to I don't want to ruin it because it's a great watch. It's a great four parter to watch. But It's scary. It's scary how. So many women. The violence against women, particularly in this country, is I mean, not particularly in this country. Globally the viol the violence against women is The statistics are shocking and this really hammers home how I think we can all agree violence against women is shockingly wrong and awful. What is the statistic? I know the show ends with it, but actually I don't think it's a spoiler to say what the crime statistics is. Three percent of all women who experience a sexual assault in this country three percent end up in criminal convictions. Isn't that horrifying? It's absolutely horrifying. They deal with I mean it really is the focus on the police mishandling and how fucking terrible it It is. And you feel very, very much You feel very much in it, but it's not even that, it's also the people around these two victims, their families, their situations they don't tell their families and their partners, and their partners are also kind of second guessing and saying, oh maybe is this true, you know, and how isolating that can feel. Um There's a there's a point in it where they're talking about, you know, the standards of the Met Police and how actually all victims it should you know that the the th first point is that you you that they're from a standpoint of being believed and how that's their guideline and that doesn't happen and how actually they have to you know achieve certain rates and uh you know stuff like that. And it's just It all you feel so it's like all of this stuff is mired in bureaucracy that it absolutely shouldn't be. And these these two women, they rise above it and they are ultimately successful in suing and I mean for for a pittance really compared to what has happened what ends up happening to them. But this is really, really well done and I I would congratulate them on how thoughtfully done it is and how it doesn't glamorize him and I think it's Absolute master stroke. The amount of time that he gets on camera. And Daniel Mays is very scary. He is he's really frightening. Um And it's almost his lack of appearance that actually makes him even more frightening in this. Um, but yeah, it absolutely brilliant. And Kay was totally right. This is this is Fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Boyd, I feel like you're gonna say something. Um Well, uh I was just gonna say Yeah, Jeff uh it Jeff Pope who you mentioned is who wrote this, who is the master of the real life, um True crime drama. He is just so you can just rely on him to do the right thing when it comes to issues of representing Rapists and murderers and you know, who are the the subject, you know, who are you. Yeah, and what I love about him, sorry, just to interrupt you here, is he's given so many interviews about this. And in the interviews, he is hammering home the the the what violence against women. That is what he's doing. Well the important absolutely, of course. Well well uh why was he hammering that home, but it's really is the it's the aftermath that is almost more shocking. So when in the first episode, the aim of aim of your neighbor's who, by the way, is just sensational, right? You know, sh could not be more different. to Slow Horse uh Slow Horse C is so incredible in this. She's just like a You know, normal everyday mother um goes out with her mates, goes out with her gay mates, have a big night out, they c they w they they end up kind of not forcing her, but they're very, very strongly encouraging her to do some Coke, you know, which which is absolutely realistic. you know, it's a group of people going out clubbing and that ends up being a thing that is used against her in a really kind of judgment in this is the judge Yeah, by the police. By the police. But what the fascinating thing about it is is that I sat there watching and I thought the treatment she gets from the police and a almost every single person she has to deal with in terms of the medical people inspecting her and the police inspecting her and including the female exactly and then the kind of one of the policemans whose job it is to help f facilitate rape victims with what they have to go through is unbelievably unhelpful and judgmental as well. And you watch this enraging kind of behavior and you think You think surely this is exaggerated. Yes. You know. I I l sat there thinking, just be in the way that almost just in you call it bedside manner, you know, like just be a bit more friendly and nice and decent. Just because apparently she had You know, it doesn't mean that's just but then I went to read what Jeff Pope is saying about what he 'cause he does absolutely meticulous research and you have to be really careful. Obviously names are changed and um etc, etc. But I know how careful he is and it you have to be really careful in British TV drama generally, in all kinds of ways when you portray real people or things that have happen to real people. real people. And you know, honestly, yes, this is the treatment she got. These characters got from from from the police. And it's so enraging and and outrageous. But it's true. This is what she went through and this is how they were. And I think I'd hope that now, you know H how long ago was this? This was I mean her the her character um was assorted in two thousand and three. Okay. Talk twenty so hopefully twenty years later. Twenty it's it's not as bad, but no, it's gone. You'd say that. Okay. So they successfully sued this two Two women successfully sued. They won their case. They sued um on the basis of human rights. Okay. Um But the Metropolitan Police appealed that decision all the way to the Supreme Court. They appealed that. Yeah. I mean the failings are astounding. It's it's almost more like so for me what I was gonna say was 'cause of that element to it, the the the the the um miscarriage of justice element to it and the and the and the search for what's the word, justice for these w women. It's really more like the people the the post office uh series in a way. You know, it's it's a real that's why I think going all the way back to why this has to be watched and it isn't the sh the kind of show you may think is that James wouldn't be able to watch because it's about sexual assault and you can't watch it. It's it's about a mis miscarriages of justice and the infuriator and that it's it's more like And institutional prejudice. Yeah. And how brilliant for ITV. You know, I we often you know people people like James gets judged about IT V for but this is also it it's 'cause it's not only it's not only tells the story in a very, very lean you know, no f there's no fat on it. Even even when it's establishing her character, you meet her ex and uh how she is with a kid and all of that very, very clever kind of naturalism about how she is, you know, just living her life before we then see what happens to her in episode one. Um but just in the s in terms of the way it's shot And the and the whole um the way it's direct and everything, it's just meticulous. And I think that IT has to be commended for doing a absolutely brilliant job. So yeah. And one more thing. You need what what w the reason they show what he His uh what's it called? His motus operanda, if you like. Is so that you have to understand when they're telling their stories of what he's done Why? Why they in some cases have limited knowledge 'cause they don't ha no remember exactly what they what they why the how they knew what happened to them despite, you know, being drugged and incapacitated and all of that. So you have to show what he did not not fully, but in terms of the the circumstances on it, to understand why they then got almost willfully misunderstood or not you know not listened to by the police. So it's it needs to be there. Whatever they show of him doing needs to be there, basically. Do you know what I you you can't even you couldn't even say well they show it just because you have to underline how all No no that's not what they're doing it. They're doing it to you understand The narrative of each woman who went through what they went through. And what they then face questioning by the police and why the police didn't really understand what they were talking about in certain cases or didn't profess to rambling now. But also one of the reasons why we don't see a lot of Danny Mays is because by definition their memories are hazy and it's a victim focus point of view. So they genuinely don't remember much about him, what he looks like, what he did because they were drugs. Uh which I think is really, really effective. Amy Fiona was fantastic. It there are there are moments in this which almost bring you to an incandescent fury because of the unfairness of it all. And there's a sequence where and I remember reading about this at the time where uh Amy Fion Edward's character is told before she goes in to give her account on video, she has to give her account of the incidents. She's told they said don't be emotional. Try and be just give them the facts. They're not interested in your tears, just give them the facts. So she gives them a very almost mechanical, methodical, logical, just the facts kind of account of what happened. And then of course they're like, Well, you didn't show any emotion, you clearly went upset. Doesn't seem believable to me. And she's like what the f Yeah and she kind of says you would I was told facts, not feelings and they and then it it's it's used against them and they were lied to um countless times and you know, what once you it is really interesting if you are in any way interested in that side of investigation to see because lots of people won't realise that you can report something and then it can potentially not be, you know, not be considered a crime and then what happens there again. Don't want to give away everything that happens because it's so it's you know, it is a must watch. You sho you should watch it. But also deeply horrifying and uh it is, but you know what? You should be confronted with it because this is happening all the time in this country, and it is a massive issue that needs to be resolved. Violence against women in this country and globally is a huge huge problem and it is not slowing down in any way, shape or form. Agreed. Believe then, which is available on ITV now? Yeah, so it started yesterday if you're listening to this on Monday on s it's on Sundays and Mondays for the next for two weeks. So but I think it's all on on IT VX already. Yeah. Okay. Right. Now, Boydie, would you like to dig into the Tombola? Uh I'm gonna pull out the next show. The next show is Rivals, which returns for its second season. This is of course the adaptation of Gilly Cooper's famous Bonkbuster book. Now I have not seen this because they did not give it to me. I have not seen it. You have not seen it. So only Boyd, the privileged Boyd, has seen Rivals Season Two. Well tell us, Boyd. I I was lucky enough to um not only did I receive the screeners, um listeners, which I know you'd like to know the details of the dissemination of these these things, um but I also went to an actual launch of it and I watched the first two episodes in the company of Kay Ribero. honourable member of this parish. And um I sat in front of Rufus Jones, who is a friend of the pod, who listens um religiously. Uh and he, of course, is the ridiculous Tory MP um in in the show. And he's absolutely brilliant in it, I can report. And episode two in particular is I think including season one. His best episode so far because he's quite centric. He's quite central to what happens in episode two. And it's absolutely hilarious. And he was sitting right behind me. And let's just say that it he he likes to do a nude scene. We know that from from going all the way back. With or without a yucca plant. Exactly, with or without a yucca plant in um his show home. Thank you. And um So I was thinking right in front of it. He was just and and there there he is up there. Huge screen with unmistakable nudity. And he said he said to me obviously, I nearly whispered in your earload. But it was it was hilarious. Um What a joy the show is. Like so the contrast could not be greater with um the last show we reviewed. Believe me. Believe me. Thank you. Um but that's really important, vital, doing important vital work. That's like a almost like a piece of action. It's almost like you know it's kind of drives you into wanting to do something. It does. Um this is pure joyous entertainment. It's not trying to make any profound point about anything, I don't think. It's trying to capture the joy. It's a bit silly, isn't it? It's silly. It's um giddy. It's over the top when it needs to be. It's and yeah, it's also kind of poignant and sweet, particularly, you know, the Danny Dyer, Catherine Parkinson relationship, which is, you know, which is what the highlight I would say probably of series one to give those to give Danny Dyer this romantic Lovely. role for him when you know, we the cliche is that he plays, you know, kind of going back decades to gangsters and for Walligans, et cetera. Absolutely fantastic partnership is is back in a kind of will they, won't they carry on their affair because they're both still married to other people. Um then you you've got the kind of slightly over at the top but not too much performances. Um which I think is perfectly picture. Remember in recent reviews of various shows, I've found Too much shouting, often just sh just acting which is in the we're trying to be funny kind of mode of acting. Whereas in this you get David Tennant, who is the villain of the piece, right? He is the evil kind of monster at the heart of the whole show, who at the end of season one. Do we assume that People might want to catch up with season one and not say anything about what happens at the end of season one or something. I w I would assume that. I, for example, have not seen the end of season one okay so a thing happens at the end of season one involving David Tennant and you're like, Oh, what's gonna happen? And then it he he arrives back in i i i in season two and he's so Even more evil and over the top than he was in season one for reasons. And and he and he he's you somehow buy into it. It's it's like such a brilliantly modulated performance. You know, I was talking about the badly modulated performances, some of which we've seen recently for me. Anyway but the skill of the I think the director has scale off credit. He is an actor, is it okay, but they're all perfectly pitched. So he is a bit of a over the top dynasty Dallas kind of character, but it still somehow makes it believable. It's extraordinary. Because there are people out there who like being a bastard, basically. And he's one of those. He almost like self celebrates his bastardness in throughout the whole thing. Aiden. Turner who I've loved back in the Polduck days, you know, uh I did a brilliant um set visit to Polduck one time in in the in the Nepsequin. He's such a lovely guy and it's brilliant that he has gone completely like does not give a shit. His sex scenes in this show. Nothing is left to the imagination, honestly. And it's hilarious. I love the fact that he's completely submitted himself to like, yep, I'm doing all these sex scenes completely naked now and it's all fine. It's all great. Um brilliant. I just think it's a such a perfectly judged piece of TV. Um I haven't read the Gilly Cooper books, but you know, Kay was talks about how th they get the tone of them so perfectly. And she was no longer with us, but she was heavily involved. She she'd visit the cell all the time. She had all the scripts. She okayed all the scripts. And she was absolutely thrilled. that these people had got together, you know, um uh uh to create something that was so true to the tone as much as anything else of her books. And the f I I love the fact that um I'm su I w I've definitely said this for season one. I love the fact that this whole massive phenomenon it's become a pop cultural in the show, right? It's not just Yeah, for Disney Plus, it's a huge thing. And it's all about the the intricacies of the arcane ITV network system in which to get your to get your channel, to get your franchise, your version of ITV programming onto ITV. involved the most bizarre hoops that you have to jump through. And it's such a weird system that's now not doesn't exist anymore, thankfully. I T V is now just one big thing and you know you it creates its own regional programs. So back in the day it was so confusing. Right. I I used 'cause I've worked in T V listings you know, all my adult life pretty much. My first show when I left university. Like you'd get you'd have to do, you know, regional variations all over the place when you have an IT V schedules. It was insane. But this show this show touches upon all of that. And it's like well it doesn't matter. People understand, it's fine. And sure enough, they're still battling, still battling now in this second season to get the franchise to to have the right to show your programmes on I T V just fantastic. So I love it, I think the cast is brilliant. Every single character is perfectly cast. I could bang on about it forever, but j if you liked epis season one and if you didn't, what's wrong with you? More of the same, it's brilliant. Uh and it it's even more Bold and Daring there's a brilliant bit in s episode two where there's a one shot. There's like a about a ten minute wanna. And it's and it's like a nefarsical situation. So it's like a farce in the middle of the whole thing. With Rufus Jones central to the whole thing as well. And it's all filmed in one shot and it's brilliant. It's so exciting. It's so so they're kind of using their own success to push it further and, you know, do e do even more wild wacky stuff. The use of eighties music is brilliant, the Montcharch is great. I can't it's it's just fantastic. Okay. Okay, Rival Season Two, Disney Plus. Uh, Friday the fifteenth of May. Those I think they're showing three episodes, making three episodes available then, then some more single episodes, and then it's there's a gonna be a break. And then it comes back in the summer, I believe. I think it's like a world cup break. Oh, um yeah, it comes back after the World Cup in July. And I'll be spending enough time with Gary, therefore. Right. Okay. We are rapidly running out of time before we throw it out of studio. So let's talk about Gary. Oh wow. Okay, so yes, I sent a message on the WhatsApp to say, oh my God, have you just seen the bear have dropped this spoiler, not spoiler, this special episode last night, which I was so excited about because I love the bear. James, you you love the bear? I do love the bear. Okay, so my God. Okay, it's an hour long episode and it is John Benthol and Ebon Mossbacharek. Was it written by them? Written by them, yes, directed by Christopher Storer. Um Real. It's unreal. So it focuses on a tr just a trip that they're going to Gary in Indiana. Is it Indiana? Gary. And Close to Council the Third Close Council the Third time features Gary Indiana, heavily. So um it's it's it's a car journey. And it's what happens in this it's all it it feels mostly real time, doesn't it? Because it's just there's just it so they're going to in and it all starts off, Richie, uh Tiff's pregnant. Um Richie gets in the car. Um, Mike is in a mood and There in starts. this incredible insight into the relationship between these two characters. Okay. So it's a flashback. Uh it's a prequel. And what's really struck me, and I don't know whether you all would have thought of this as well, is Half Man. We watched Half Man. Okay, uh last for last pod, I think, didn't we? Was it last pod? And this is another this couldn't be really be in it more different, but it's another exploration of uh the love story of friendship between two Men. Um And I Absolutely loved it. Now we don't want to give away the spoiler because what happens in the last thirty seconds of this is shocking. Which will set up season five. Which will set up season five because it is um yeah, we we we we won't talk about that. Okay, so yeah, there's some great scenes. There's the scene where they uh join some kids on um a Barcel court. and a lot of the action takes place in a bar and um Marin Island, who remember, who played the sister in his and hers. She plays a character call Sherry who connects with Mikey's character. Um That whole you know whole scene where they're in the the the toilet together is remarkable where he's revealing obviously uh you know, um drug induced revelations. And all kind of leads up to this point. Yeah. Right. It leads up to this point. Sorry the fucking thing. Okay, sorry. It leads up to this point. One more shot to do. Right. Yeah. We don't want to give any spoilers away, but this is absolutely fantastic and fans of the bear will just laugh the whole thing up. It's absolutely beautiful. I loved every second of it. Uh it's do you know what it's a fascinating look at both Mikey as a character who we've seen actually more than you'd imagine in the bear given that he's dead. But uh but understanding his addiction where he is before his death. But also Richie, because Richie, I think has had the most pronounced character arc on that show. And seeing best character. So what we're seeing here is not just the Richie who we saw at the beginning of the show. It's almost before that because he goes w after Mikey's death, he kind of It has a complete breakdown. So we're actually thinking pr prior to that. So it's like it's Richie before his art, but also before his fall as well. So it's a really interesting look at Richie as well. And their dynamic is fantastic. There is one particular scene in this which is really hard to watch, uh which the bear does very well, which is row's arguments between people are hard to watch in the bear, and there's one in this which is an absolute doozy. But yeah, this was a delightful surprise. I think can we have more gorilla episodes on streaming guys. Do you know when they decided to do this? I read that it had been shot in secret while they were doing production on season four. I don't know if that's true. But yeah, and they just dropped it out of nowhere. It's like it made me think of the um you know the mysterious final episode of Stranger Things that everyone talks about. Remember the It didn't exist, it wasn't a real thing. This one is there was a secret final episode of Stranger Things. There wasn't. But I love that there was this this episode of there, which has been wonderful. We loved it. Yeah. Okay. Void. Uh off campus. Off campus, which is the final show. You have two minutes. Okay, all I'd say is it's mad right that this show has arrived at the same era as Heated Rivalry. So Heated Rivalry was the big sexy gay hockey ice hockey story. This is a big straight sexy ice hockey story. But it's weirdly similar. Like down to the way it's shot, the tone of it, the level of nudity, there's ramp you're gonna love this, there's rampant butt shots right from the very first minute. It's all uh and it carries on like that boobage very equities. So as opposed to you know you thought I was talking about the male gaze, which is still very much the case with it. This is equal opportunities gazing. Um there's boobs, there's butts, there's there's rampant sex action. So it's kind of like all you need to know the context of it is this is effectively an ice hockey based teen but teen ice hockey rather than college ice hockey rather than professional, you know, actually winning World Cup size hockey of heat and rival. But it is really similar to the point where I was like, were these commissioned at the same time? Did somehow 'cause this must have been commissioned. The creators of this show couldn't have known that He did River will become the hit it is, but there's so many similarities in it. Um just a bunch of like random handsome and beautiful people, young people who I've never heard of before. They're not it's not star they're no well, okay, I'll tell you, Ella Bright, um and it's basically like brainy, music loving woman. um charismatic. And in between them is this ice hockey um kind of hunk, who's somehow wants to thinks that he wants to get her to get it on with the rock star, but really, of course, he's attracted to it 'cause she's got a deep soulful vibe that he's not used to 'cause he has one night stands with Bimbo's That's the kind of setup. But it's really fun. I went I honestly I enjoyed it much more than I expected to, 'cause there's been some previous attempts at doing teen dramas on Prime Video and they have not succeeded. This is the best one by far they've done for me. You have me at butt. Yeah, I did have you at butt. Um so yeah, I thought it was fun and really and kind of really well done. Not as good as Heather Rivalry, but nearly if you like Heather Rivalry if in general the whole vibe of it. Hockey sexy hockey hockey, nudity, sex. It's all there. Puck of these. And it's on Prime Video. Very good. Not my joke, sadly, I style that one. It's very good. It's on Prime Video on Wednesday, the thirteenth of May. Oh great. Fantastic. That is it. So right, what else is out this week? Let's uh examine the calendar very, very briefly. Dunton Ranch, which is the latest Yellowstone spin-off. What else is there? Smoggy Queens. Smoggy Queens was good. Yes. Yeah. Is that back? That's a new season of smoggy queens. Right, okay. Good show. BBC three, um, yeah, the gang of like um uh gay and trans people you know form it literally form like a gang of and it's funny it's really funny it's really well done. Wednesday the Punisher one last kill which is the Punisher one shot. Speaking of John Burfell he's in that. Well I haven't seen that yet, but I'm very excited about it. Good omens third and final season. Also on Wednesday on Prime at Video. The Hard Acres is Channel Five's um uh kind of period drama. I think there's on back on Thursday. I think that was quite big hit. That was the one where I doubted the veracity of the facial hair. I felt like really would they have that much facial hair? In the in the period whenever it's set whenever the hell that was. But um apart from that it was fine. Um Let's assume there's nothing else. If we're the boys just reading heat at this point. And yeah, that's just can we do pick of the week. Pick of the week. It's obviously believe me, because it is a must watch. It kind of is, but rivals is the return of rivals. I mean it has to be so. Okay, it's believe me. We're saying believe me, I think so.