Devil Wears Prada Sequel Discussion

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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway I was invited. Why were you invited? I was in the devil 's Prada, which may I say, as I predic ted, what happened? Oh God, are we talking is this remote? $2 3 3 million globally. But why tell me why you were invited to the Met College? I'm still not sure. I just I'm I I think it's because I've talked a lot about and got a lot of um social media activity when I went to the Vanity Fair thing. So I think I sh Fuck I don't know. I think someone I think some intern somewhere said, Podcasting, what about that crazy professor? I don't I'm not sure why. Weren't they trying to like suck up to you um for a minute and a half? I don't know. No, the Bezos people. Bezos and his lady friend. Oh, I I like them. I I met uh I mean I don't know them, but I my I've had you've had more interaction with with them than I have, but I find them to be lovely. I I I was invited, I think I told you this, I was invited to a small dinner with him and another friend and I I said, no, I don't A, I don't like dinners and two . I don't, you know, two, I don't like people and three, I don't I don't want to know these people because I know what's gonna happen. We talk about the slot. I'm gonna like them and I'm gonna stop speaking my mind. You like everybody. You have a truly low bar for me. It is a pretty low bar. Yeah, no, I'm pretty I'm pretty I think they're getting the shit kicked out of them. You know, there's protests and like billboards, very some funny things. There was a um you know, like a shopping cart out front with a bunch of empty bottles and said bathroom. They're projecting things onto the buildings nearby. They kind of hijacked the whole thing. And it's kind of, I don't know, graspy and thirsty, I'd find them. It's It's a perfect fit. Vogue Vogue has so much Riz and no money. And the Bezos have just so much money and not a lot of Riz. It's a marriage made in heaven. I get the sense, I don't know this, but I get the sense Bezos is pretty self actualized and Honey Badger don't give a shit. I think he's just living his best life, quite frankly. I don't I don't know him. Oh I have a very different Oh you you might know more than me. I don't know. I think they're tone deaf to what the what what's going on right now. Gas prices nearing five dollars. I think they're always tone on the case. They're unaffected gas prices. No, I don't mean that. No more second yacht. Journey of all of them. All of them were like the, you know, captain of the chess club. They weren't getting laid a lot. They've worked their asses off. They're very smart. They're very talented. They've been working nonstop. And one day , uh, the day of the IPO, they went into a conference room, this, you know, nice, fairly unattractive guy who had no sexual currency their whole life, and they come out and they're the sexiest man alive. I know, I've had these discussions. And they go apeshit. And I don't uh you know, and and uh with with respect to Bezos , um I I g I get the sense you know more about this than I do. I get the sense he's having a great time. I don't know. I don't know. I just think I think there's um leaders in our I I'm I'm more for the quiet. If they're gonna be very wealthy, the quiet there is a an argument to be made at this moment in time w in it which which is keep it to yourself. Keep it to yourself. Agreed. So I don't think I I think this doesn't play well. And I know they don't care, but they look like ridiculous they look like Tom and Daisy. I'm sorry. I just they just do in the Gatsby. And and it's not a good look right now because things are really shifting. And I don't mean they have to pretend they're like living on the prairie with like one shovel and a you know and a bucket. Like that's not what I'm talking about. It's just a I think the McKenzie Scots, the Lorraine Powell jobs, the Melinda Gates, you know, they speak out appropriately. They're not showing off. I just I just uh I don't think it's gonna end well . Anyway, uh we'll see. I'm coming to London by the way. I'll be there tomorrow morning. Yeah, I know. You have some dinner, a big dinner and Yes, you were invited as a small dinner and you will refuse to come, but that's okay. Well I was invited to the Met Ball. You think I said no to the Met Ball, but I'm coming to your dinner. Yes, I do. Because who the fuck cares about the Met B. What would you wear to the Met Ball? Speaking of which. an easy no for me. I would wrap myself in like oil and glad wrap. Oh god. Jesus Christ. I just ate. What could what would you wear? Seriously? What would you if you had to think of some fantastic costume. I have I literally have absolutely no idea. I don't You love to dress up. You dressed up as like at Halloween. You always dress up. Oh no, I love dressing up as something outrageous. I love going as as as uh as Deadpool or Starship Commander Jean Luc Picard. Huge crowd pleaser. Okay I love I went as Luke Skywalker. Any I went as Ted Lasso. Any opportunity to put on a wig and be someone differ Well you don't have to. Not all of them do. Sometimes they look kind of crazy. That was the easiest no in the world. That's like the last thing. At some point, at some point I lose all academic credibility. Yeah. And you know, something that gets much closer to that point is showing up the fucking football. I wish you would go and wear an I don't care do you shirt, like the Milania shirt. Uh no, I see I I I don't like that either. I I think if you get invited to something like that, you play along and you'd be a good gracious You know. I don't think you wear a dress saying tax the rich. I thought that was low buddy. I agree with you. Um uh I think that's stupid. You don't go. But you should go because I need to understand it. I need you to go in there because I would never do so too. I'm in London. And plus I really want to plus I really want to hang out with you and your friends here. Not true. You are invited. Don't say I don't invite you. You are literally have nothing to do. I'm home alone. I've got the boys this morning. You're off partying with your fancy friends from the Devil Wears Prada. No, it's my dogs. No. That's all I gotta say. Small dinner, you're invited. If you'd like to come, it would be great. Okay? If not, I'm gonna find you and see your house. You told me that. My youngest who has a habit of doing this has likes where he is. Is all of a sudden getting A's. And anyways, I'm going to spend much more time in the US. A lot of moving parts here, but I won't bother. Let me know. Anyway, I will come by and find you somehow. I'll break into your house. Um anyway, let's get to the news. This is a weird one. As we record, GameStop and eBay stocks are responding to real train wreck of an interview from the GameStop CEO. What a surprise. Ryan Cohen, who's somewhat of a moron sometimes when he talks, announced the deal of the century over the weekend, a fifty five point five billion dollar unsolicited offer to buy eBay at one hundred twenty five dollars a share, pitching it as a future rival to Amazon. But then he went on CNBC's Squawkbox, where our good friend Andrew Ross Sorkin, our famous Canadian friend, pointed out the math wasn't mathing . It was amazingly awkward. Let's listen. You have nine billion dollars uh on your balance sheet. Arguably if you're if you're providing uh effectively all of your stock and then and then the cash that gets you to twenty , you have this letter from T D , that's another twenty . Uh we're now at forty , uh, but we're still off uh by call it uh sixteen. And and the twenty, as far as I understand, while it's considered a highly confident letter, meaning T D saying they're highly confident uh that they would provide the financing, it's not locked financing . Yeah, we'll see what happens . I I I hear you. I understand that. I'm I'm just trying to understand where the the rest of the money would come from It's half cash, half stock. R I I I'm I hear you. I'm just saying that that math doesn't get you to the It got more and more awkward after that. Um this is just this is a meme stock stunt. This guy is such a moron. He's always trying to get that stupid stock up, the game stock thing, and take advantage of people. So I don't know. Reminds me of the the story about polymarket and cal ci, only the top whatever zero point one percent make money and everyone else loses. But your thoughts on this? Ridiculousness. I love Andrew. This is well first off, Andrew did a great job. I I think Andrew is one of those y you're like this too. It is very difficult to ask really piercing hard questions to make people look stupid while remaining dignified and not coming across as an asshole. And Andrew's able to do that, you're able to do that. Um, this is off, off, off Broadway theater, not strateg y. This is just so fucking stupid and such a waste of oxygen. And a CEO who has, I looked into this, a compensation strategy that says if you can get GameStop to $100 billion, you get $35 billion in a Musk-like compensation strategy . So he's trying to memeify his stock again . So this is noise. It doesn't pass the most basic smell test. First off, there's a scale mismatch. eBay is a thirty to forty billion dollar enterprise. GameStop doesn't have the balance sheet to do with that without massive dilution or leverage. And the stock they would have to offer, they'd have to issue so much stock that the stock would immediately go into a downward spiral. Correct. There's no way they can do this. The strategic fittest then, where both commerce isn't a strategy. eBay is a two-sided marketplace with decades of liquidity and tens of millions of customers, GameStop is still figuring out what the fuck it wants to be, other than trying to become a meme stock. And then as Andrew was pointing out, the financing reality here is nothing but a a bad ayahuasca trip. Even a partial bid would require issuing a ton of equity, see above, massive decline in the stock. That's effectively asking shareholders to fund a ketamine trip. So what's left here? We're bold, we're swinging, start taking, get get someone on Reddit, get Roan Kitty fired up so I can get in a rational compensation for not actually adding any fucking intrinsic value to the market. What he said is we're a melting ice cube. And he's also, in my opinion, this is backfired. By the way, GameStock stock as we record down 9ine percent today. This is this is not only I I blame the board here. A board of directors are supposed to be fiduciaries. Is there one I mean? That's a fair point. But this should never have even been allowed. Real acquisitions, the real work is done behind the scenes. And if you're going to make a hostile bid for a company, you show up with your financing locked and loaded. And it's done, and if you have to go hostile because they reject your initial offer, this should be a one-sentence response from the Board of eBay. Come on. You are not a serious people. Period. That's it. So this makes a headline. This is us ing financial markets and the press as you're taking them for clowns because you got a you got a trip to the circus in COVID with your meme stock adventure. This is I I I Well he's trying to get it going again. It's like that Wall Street Journal piece about who's benefiting from these prediction markets. And if you don't know who the sucker in the room is, it's probably you. This is not a real thing. It is a it's a it was it was showing who makes profits and it's a small group of people who make all the profits. Everyone else loses thousands and thousands, whoever's using it. And so it's you know, you're a you're a a sucker. There's just it's just like I don't know why this is legal, this kind of nonsense. Not sound 10%. You're allowed to I don't know if it should it be illegal. I i here's the bottom line. The market, the market is doing its job. They they say, oh, remember GameStop? Okay, the CO's a fucking idiot and he has no he clearly has no fiduciary oversight and it's taking his stock down ten percent today. One day. Right. Except this has gone on for a long time, this nonsense, and people have benefited just like they are doing over on these predictions market. There the certain people who have s who are a little smarter, you know, supposedly like I think Chamat h was in there. Remember when it was going up and up and up GameStop? Right. It just feels like there's they're just taking poor people's money. Like it just is so grotesque the what they're doing here. I think the meme stock movement. I I I hated it. I I got c dragged on the internet because I I The I do think a lot, I'd be curious to know. I mean, quite frankly, the meme stock movement, the whole gestalt of it was stick it to the man, stick it to rich people. Yeah, but it never and then it became about a con at when when you have the winklevi telling you to stick it to the man, it means you're about to be impaled as a retail investor. Exactly. And so I agree with you that anyone, this is just pure gambling. It's not speculation. And and the reality is for for younger people or people doing this. If you want to have some fun, it's like Vegas, fine, have at it. But the thing is you got to stare your phone all fucking day because the the the moves are so wild here. But this is, in my opinion, um I I think and I don't know if there should be regulation here. It's free speech. But uh the question is should you be able to should you be able to have this kind of impact on the markets, which I don't think it has, when you make offers that are not in any way realistic? In other words, is this market manipulation? Is it trying to do something with absolutely no serious intent of uh of I wonder what's happened at eBay stock price? God, that's a company that's let's just thank Andrew, our favorite Canadian Andrew Ross Sorkin, for like slapping this guy. Uh he's really polite. I'd be like, I'd be like, at this point, after he says half cash, have duck, I go, You fucking moron, that's would be my next line. He's like, the math doesn't work. Well uh well that you know that's been a long sort of troubled company, right? It it seems like an opportunity for someone. Anyway, we'll see. It's a great brand. Everybody knows it. I wrote one of the first stories about it. Um I remember meeting with the venture capitalists. They were at uh oh what's that firm? Benchmark. It was all the handsome benchmark men. It was me across from six tall white men. Yeah, all very tall. And they were telling me about eBay. And I know Pierre a little bit who I like very much. Um anyway, uh oh it's had a it's had a rocky it's sort of d missed a lot of turns. Um in any case, um let's move on. The Supreme Court just temporarily blocked the lower court's ban on the abortion pill, MiFa Prestone, being sent through the mail. Two pharmaceutical companies had filed an emergency appeal warning the lower court's ruling could create chaos and leave pa patients around the country in limbo medication is now the method used in nearly two-thirds of abortions in the United States. The FDA approved the drug in 2000. Experts say it's safe and effective. We're going to be talking more about the midterms in a bit, but is this a fight that Trump and the Republicans wanna have right now? As Melinda French Gates said on threads, everyone deserves health care that's guided by science, not politics. Melinda Melinda for the win, FT W Thoughts? Well I'm just gonna refer to it as an Mtone. Uh Mtone is an enormous breakthrough. It's used by millions of patients worldwide. It's one of the most studied and safest medications on the market. Serious complications are very rare. The safety profile is comparable or safer than many common prescriptions. It's effective. It reduces the need for more invasive procedures. It expands access, especially in underserved areas. It, you know, earlier care, safer outcomes. It's consistent with medical authority and standards. The legal consistency argument doesn't hold up here. Other medications with higher risk profiles remain legal. Singling this one is often just inconsistent. Well, it's because it's working. The anti-abortion activists that's why they're not Again, this is what is so mendacious and un-American. Rich people don't need government. I I don't I I I have benefited enormously from standing on the shoulders of other people and taxpayers, assisted lunch, University of California, rights, rule of law, the SEC, all these things I benefited from. Now that I have wealth, I don't need the government. I have my own transportation. I have my own security. I have my own schools. I have my own health care. The people who need government the most are the most vulnerable among us. And just when the government needs to step in and protect a 15-year-old non-white woman in the South from something that could impoverish her for her lifetime, traumatize her, put her in real serious health risk, that's who they go after. This isn't, I've even said the the anti-abortion movement is not a war on women. It's a war on poor women. This is who needs this? Who is this a breakthrough for? The people who don't have the resources, qu orite frankly, the sophistication, to get on a plane and go to uh a clinic to get an abortion in a state where it's legal. And then they disdain them when they're born after they're born. Trevor Burrus, Jr. They can make this illegal. You and I would have no problem getting it. None. This is government at its worst. This is not protecting the people who need government and laws the most. This is there is there is no no medical, no moral, no in my opinion. No abortion reason to do this. You get why. They want no abortions whatsoever. Trevor Burrus I get that. But when you But here's the bottom line . They want abortions, but only on the down low for if and when it happens to one of their friends. What they they're you know, they're they're very like you you're not into abortion that don't have an abortion. But I think you would find uh that that the one of the reasons that people are a lot of people, especially wealthy uh anti-abortion people, to have no empathy for this is they know if shit ever gets real for them or anyone in their family, they can figure it out. And so I find this I find efforts to do away with this drug is a gift. Yeah. Well the Supreme Court has just temporarily though. This is just a understanding is as we were spe uh just a couple hours ago, they've temporarily halted the ban or blocked the ban. But this also temporary block. This also goes back to what I think of a lot about young men. And the number one reason a lot of I think it's most women who have terminated pregnancy go on to have children. One of the top reasons stated by women as to why they terminate a pregnancy is lack of partner support. And so if you're really serious about reducing the number of pregnancies terminated, then we need economic policies and we need more men my age to get involved in young men's life and instill a set of values such that we produce more economically and emotionally viable men. This is true, but they don't like them once they're born, Scott. They don't like them they don't like these people once they're born. Well that's a different issue. What I'm saying is Well Well I I get that. But we're we're talking past each other right now. I'm talking about if you were serious about reducing the number of abortions, you would figure out a way such that they were women who felt they had more reliable partners. If you want more kids and you want fewer abortions, we need to produce a new generation of more responsible, economically viable young men. And you're right, once it the same people who are most rabidly anti-abortion tend to be the same ones who don't want universal childcare. Or give them money, or they disdain them, or they're you know, everything. It's just it makes no sense. It's it makes no and then they're the most for the death penalty and you're sort of like, Where is the consistency here in any way? Well that joke, if you want to save someone from the death penalty, just shove them up a woman's uterus. Oh my god, I can't believe I laughed at that. Um anyway, let's uh look, I hope it's n it's not just a temporary ban. I hope Spring Court you know, gets slapped since. The'yve had some very dicey and horrible rulings recently around the voting rights acts. But this is something that is just ridiculous. It's bad for companies, it's bad for people. Um the abortion foes have won enough, I feel like, but they won't. They won't they'll keep going um okay let's go on a quick break when we come back how AI is upending the midterms support for the show comes from BetterHelp. 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Uhe whover is more friendly to AI and big tech, the biggest pack, leading the future, is funded in part by Hendriessen Horowitz and OpenAI co-founder Greg Brockman. On the other end, there's the public first action, a pack backed by $20 million donation from Anthropic and Tech Billionaire Chris Larson is putting up $3.5 million in New York to back Democratic congressional candidate Alex Boris, who supports AI regulation. This was I was texting with Chris about this um the other day and also Alex. Um let's take a look at the ad that Larson's Pack just launched. Oscar what is wrong? You think you know what they're watching, but with AI, they can land on anything. Violence, child sexual abuse, and predators. Who would be against AI safety laws? Open AI, the company behind ChatGPT. They're attacking Alex Boris for writing the toughest AI safety law in the country. Don't let open AI shut down child safety. You can push back as responsible for the content of this advertising. It's an interesting ad, and from a marketing perspective, it's an interesting way to counter child safety is the number one thing that people are all bipartisan about. And and and also AI increasingly. And just for speaking of AI legislation, the Senate Judiciary Committee just advanced a bill that would require AI companies to implement age verification process. It would also uh ban minors from using AI chatbot companions. Um I'm not sure this will um will pass. Um and at the same time the Senate just unanimously passed a ban on prediction market trading for senators and their staffers effective immediately. Smart Cal She and Polymarket both praised the Senate's move Um the Senate min ority leader Schumer called it a no-brainer, saying must never allow Congress to turn into a casino. He urged the White House to follow suit. Of course, the White House has already warned staff about betting on the Iran war, but I doubt they'll And again, the White House is probably in the way of any of this AI legisl even the safety stuff passing because they're in the pocket of the AI industry. So thoughts on on this effort by uh Chris who was Chris was a tech billionaire at a company. He's really interesting. He's been very involved in San Francisco politics, but this was interesting for him to sort of go against these pro AI packs, which are led by essentially Mark Andreessen and his gang, his mob. Um thoughts on this? Well, it's just it's filling a vacuum. It feels as if there should be federal legislation. What what I find most interesting is I think that the entity or the the part, the touchstone or the the visible object or the cudgel, whatever you want to call it, is going to be data centers. And what's interesting about AI is that your approval of AI. The two brands that have in registered the greatest brand destruction have been the US abroad over the last few years. We used to be the enforcers protecting people of the West from rogue nations. Now we are that rogue nation and AI. The brand AI has just taken an absolute nosedive because the only population or the cohort where that where AI has over 50% approval is people making over $200,000 a year. Because if you're wealthy, you see AI as powering your 401k, an opportunity to make money, you may use it at work, you feel pretty secure about your job. But what a lot of um lower income people think is that AI, the only visible representation of AI, is a data center that's gonna send their electricity rates up while private companies that they don't even have access nor the money to participate in boom in value. I think data centers are going to be ground zero for this battle . Yeah. It's one of them. I think a lot of it. I think people just have a a like a a a a real antipathy towards AI at this point. Even if it's it's a good thing in some ways, right? I think they've really you know these, packs I mean they'll work they'll work day and night. The same thing with the crypto industry, you know, which had sort of a faint distasteful a aroma to it. Um and it real but it still was effective with all the millions they're spending all over and by the way musk is part of this. They're all trying to stop it. It's interesting that Anthropics on the other side or Chris Larson's on the other side. So there's a lot of tech billionaires um lining up to to stop that. And I th it's it's not good for anyone. Alex Boris is a really interesting candidate. He's in that part of Manhattan. I think it's uh Jack Schlossberg, George Conway, or all there's a whole pack of people running in that area. Um and Alex is trying to sort of stick his head up and as the Mr. AI regulator. But it'll be uh it'll be an interesting case of who wins here. A lot of people think the candidates or the party that is sort of sort of vaguely anti-AI has a better chance in the midterms. I don't know if you think that's so. But there there is legislation. It's just that this in this um administration is just not going to pass any of these laws because they're they're getting so much money from the AI companies. I don't see them. That's the only people they ever have at the White House are AI people. Never have a critic, never have anybody who's against it. Aaron Powell There was this great Hugh Grant, Nicole Kidman show called The Undoing, where they're trying to solve a murder, and the defense attorney says, people hire me to create muck. And that's what's going on here. I think that's what the the AI guys are gonna do. I think they're just gonna create a ton of confusion around this and make it difficult to pass anything. And also , they have the money. My understanding is they've already pledged about a quarter of a billion dollars. And just for reference, leading up into the twenty-two midterms, pharma spending. No, this is 2022 just as a benchmark. But the pharma lobby spent $380 million, insurance spent $159, real estate spent $139. I think you're going to see far more than that spent by the pro- AI lobby. I think it's gonna be sort of uh they'll try to couch it as we're we're force safety and children, we need to do the sto ckfully. And the anti-AI will be a grassroots and it'll be focused on data centers. They're environmentally damaging to us. They not creating any jobs. And all they're gonna do is send your elit o already soaring energy costs even higher. So I it's gonna be it's it's gonna be an interesting it's gonna be an interesting proxy for how people feel about AI and technology. I I don't know. I feel like it goes back to the Bezos thing is they're trying nobody likes them anymore. Like they have become villains. They are villains now. And so I don't no matter how much money they spend, people are like, I I can't tell you how many people come Scott, really interestingly, over the past we ek, people have come up to me and said thank you to you and I for being at least critical in a smart way. Like very, you know, not just screaming about it, but explaining it. Um, I just feel like these are villains now and they can spend as much money as they want, but I don't think it's gonna I think people in their heart feel very nervous about it and very, very distrustful. And I know it doesn't correlate with how much money like the product was, but the story is about corporations fucking you, tech companies fucking you. That's really what it's about. And I think and it was it did it in a very subtle way. Um, but it it it's they've got I'm not so sure it's gonna work. And the same thing with these the prediction markets, as much as they're interesting, everyone's got a little funny feeling about 'em. I mean, obviously the Senate nobody in the Senate should should be on prediction markets if they have information. Trading well, both, you're right. Um the the prediction markets is even worse on some level, because it's like let's bet on the war, let's bet on death essentially. Um and and it it should be the White House, it should be the House, it should be all of them. It's not free speech. It's you have unique information. You're there for the public service. And while you're there, you're not going to be gambling, essentially. Which is what I think it is. Aaron Ross Powell We look i there's two issues here. One and we'll come back to this. One is how the general public feels about AI and how the brand has eroded dramatically. And then there's in my view, we should follow the Singapore model. An entry-level minister earns the equivalent of eight hundred thousand dollars and one point seven million US for a prime minister. The objective of our elected representatives, the incentive should be you are there to make Americans wealthier, not to enrich yourself. And uh uh uh what Americans see right now around AI is the following: it's making a lot of people a lot of money, but the only thing I see is risk, peril, according to these guys, and my electricity costs are going to go up. So I'm supposed to like this. Oh, and by the way, the the the ultimate poster child for bid tech for tech in this age is Musk. Yeah. And he does not acquit himself well. No, he does not. So it used to be it used to be Gates who was a little bit awkward. It used to be and then went on to I think I think get very concerned about public health and developing nations. Steve Jobs at a minimum was was likable and seen as a visionary. The new spokespeople for tech are Mus k, Altman, right? It's kinda um I don't even think Bezos. He's kind of kind of left, no? Don't you think he's got a big thing? No, I think people think of him mm-mm. I think he looks like, you know, Daddy Warbucks, except not nice to Annie. And then unfortunately, or not fortunately or unfortunately, the other person at the center of this that's that's identifying or marking the age around technology because he was so close to so many of them is Epstein. So what do you have? You have increasing electricity costs, wealth accretion that you're not participating in, peril that supposedly the inventors of this shit think is everywhere. Oh, and let's add in a dash of pedophilia. Welcome to big tech. Like who are the hero who are I mean, uh maybe Dario Almade? Who who are the heroes here that are supposed to be Cuban Dario? I do. I do. I'm just saying, but I think he's not he's not associating with it. I'm just saying there are better better heroes here. Like I I would say Asacha and Adela could fill that role. Um Tim Cook could've, except now he looks like somewhat of a choad. I think I've never seen such a thing happen. I mean, just ten percent of Americans are more excited than concerned about AI. As of March, uh two-thirds of Americans have not have not much or no exposure to AI at work. Two-thirds of Americans think that AI will eliminate more jobs than it creates. Less than a third of Americans trust AI, and 77% 77% of Americans think AI poses a threat to humanity. So okay. Threat to humanity, but my electricity costs are going up. So while I'm living here, I'm Ford kills us. I can barely afford gas. I don't have my affordable care subsidies , but the but OpenAI is raising money at $850 billion to fund something that supposedly is a threat to humanity. What do you know people aren't excited about AI. They've done th this is the worst managed brand in a long time. I don't know what they can do to get it back. I really don't at this point. We'll see if they can, but they're just all such every time they open their mouths, I think they should stop talking. That's my feeling. Anyway, we need to go on a quick break and we come back. Apple is sitting on a ton of cash. Might they use it to make a big acquisition under their new CEO Support for the show comes from back market. Listen, there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products. I'm at a point in my life where I'd say two-thirds of the things I buy, I think do I really need this? I'd like to go somewhere at asylum retreat and just live off a plate and a fork, but that has nothing to do with this ad. It's the same thing with tech ads, but back market gives you a smarter way to buy tech, bringing personal and home electronics back to life through professional refurbishment at a much lower price than new. It's all they do. Backmarket offers a range of high quality phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners, and even iPods. All of the tech at BackMarket has been inspected and restored by best in class professionals to ensure it isn't perfect working condition. 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Brand trained to answer questions, make product recommendations, and handle orders and returns. No hold music. Marketing that launches instantly. Support that never sleeps. Join more than 193,000 brands including Away, Patrick Ta, and Dollar Shave Club, already growing with Clav io, the autonomous B2C CRM . Get started at KLAVIYO. com. Scott, we're back. We have to talk about Apple's latest earnings and what they mean for the company's future strategy. They just had their best March quarter ever, beating expectations with a hundred and eleven billion dollars in revenue up se venteen percent from last year. iPhone is still the engine, fifty-seven billion dollars in sales up twenty-two percent in their services business. That's iCloud, Apple TV and subscriptions just hit an all-time record of nearly thirty-one billion But the company also announced its abandoning its net cash neutral target. Some analysts say this is a signal that Apple is about to make uh a major AI acquisition, possibly the AI startup perplexity, which has struggled compared to the others, but uh uh and have a range of issues around it. Should Apple buy into the AI uh business? Um first, what do you what do you think about this? Well first off, this really is sort of a a run through Nice last quarter for Tim Collins. beating Wall Street estimates of 109 billion. The stocks trading up 3% after hours. They w one of the things I love about Apple is they've figured out we're a mature company. We're not a growth company. We're still growing, but we're going to return um uh money to shareholders and they do it through buybacks. They just announced a $100 billion share buyback. They've raised their dividend 4 percent to 27 cents per share. The iPhone revenue rose 20 per 22 percent in the quarter, with Cook calling the iPhone 17 lineup, which I wasn't a fan of, I gotta own that. The most popular in our history, got that one wrong. The revenue was constrained by supply issues, Q3 guidance, revenue growth of fourteen to 17 percent year on year on year. And the new CEO joined the earnings call and was introduced by Cook, uh, which was the first time I think um first appearance since the transition was announced. He praised Apple's financial discipline under Cook. And the thing I love or respect so much about Apple is that companies typically have a tough time acknowledging they're no longer a teenager and they stuff their face with Botox and fillers , and they don't want to they don't want to act like a mature company and be very disciplined, which goes to your question around AI. I personally think and watch by the time this airs will announce they've acquired perplexity . I think Apple's culture is so strong that they've decided that they are not an acquisitive company, that they don't like acquired, they they really they've made fewer acquisitions than any company of their size. Let's return let's not let's not engage in the I in the AI wars. It's too expensive. There's too much capital in it. Let's continue to be the arbiter, the toll, then custody of the billion most attractive consumers in the world. Aaron Ross Powell , the way they got out of m sort of got out of maps. search engine from from Alphabet. I wonder if they're going to say, look, we'll use AI to improve our targeting and improve our Apple Music, but we're going to at some point have an auction and auction off access as the default LLM and they're gonna get tens of billions of dollars from one of these guys. Or should they buy something and just because this this is sort of the heart. Whatever you think of AI, it is at the heart of your services. You can't just like it's not you can't vendor it like you would um search or um or map. Search has been pretty central. Yes, but it's not that there's a whole bunch of things you do on an iPhone that's not just searching. And you don't use search internally on the phone. You use it when you go outside. That's what they use Google for for your for your browser. They don't do it they don't power the search inside of Apple. They have to have a AI company. They just do. They need it to integrate the way Google has done with Gemini. They need one. I think they have to buy one. Um, because they're not going to be able to build it. They keep having people leave who running AI. It's just there's not enough action happening there um for people to stay. There's more action. So you think it'll be an aqua hire or do you think they'll actually offer it as a service? No. I think it'll be integrated into their services. It'll be it the way Gemini is. I mean, there is a Gemini separate service, but most most of the us ofage Gemini is within the search engine right into their current product. I don't think people necessarily like like I go out when I want to use AI and go to Claw, right? And and sometimes I get it in Gemini, but Gemini is not quite specific enough and I don't want to pay for it. And I don't want more relationship with Google. And probably one of the and Claude is better for me at least. So I think they have to have something they integrate into their business for lots of reasons. And then they could also say if you wanna do something outside, like with search, we have a deal with opening. I think they did have some sort of deal. Anyway, I think they they buy something. I don't see how they can't. But to be serious in AI involves this this cap ex . Apple shareholders have gotten their lips wrapped around the crack cocaine of profits. Trevor Burrus I'm not talking about a customer service, a consumer service. I'm talking about integrated into their other services. They need to have some some ability to do that. Trevor Burrus But why I guess my question is the following. Why anthropic and open AI both get public? One at, you know, both of them call it a trillion dollars . The new CEO shows up and says who wants to be the default AI for Apple Pro Yes, but for Apple products externally, not internally, they need to have AI. Right. And that's why they need to buy something like perplexity now. Because you don't think they can recruit the people to build that. I can't they have lost people. With all these AI people moving around, which they do like a lot, but they've lost quite a few people running. It's just not it's not where the action is and so the they're gonna go. And so they have to have a competence by having a like a perplexity to run the internal stuff that you don't see necessarily. And then for a consumer service, just like with search, there's search in Apple that's not Google, but then they go and get it for the external stuff for customers. Where it's like, why should we pay for a really robust search service? It just doesn't make sense. Why should we pay for a map? I mean they still have maps, that's not true, but mostly it's Google Maps, right? They that's who they get a big chunk of money from and that's who their default is or default browser. Here we have, you know, the Google browser essentially. And so that kind of stuff, it's like why bother doing that? This is integral to their how they get you songs, how they get you they can't have open AI give you song information. It just doesn't make they need to do it themselves, certain things. That's my feeling. Yeah, I I I find the product I haven't, you know, I pull up I'm now running running and doing more zone two uh exercise. But good. Yeah, I know, thank you. And then but I do um when I bring up Spotify, they have that AI DJ. I'm trying to think, you think that Apple needs AI? How would that manifest in the customer consumer experience? You don't see it. You don't just the way when you go to search right now with Gemini, it's there right? It says this is the Gemini. You don't even have to tell me. It's just just search. Like I don't know why they have to differentiate. When I'm on an Apple phone though, I use Google search. Right. But internally, as they they serve up all manner of things to you, they you they're using Apple technology. They just need to own, they need to have a basic level of competence in AI to serve much of their stuff. And then the external stuff they can get piles of money from whatever company. I bet it'll be clawed, that's my guess. But they need to own something. So if only to maintain those relationships, right? To under I just don't think they can be without AI expertise, but they don't need to offer consumer service. They're never gonna offer a consumer service. Not their strength anyway. Their strength is their ecosystem. Anyway, we need to move on. But the Pentagon just made a slew of AI deals speaking of this is an AI week here. Jeff Bezos is tuxedo and AI dudes. Announcing last week that it reached agreements with Amazon, Microsoft, NVIDIA, Oracle, and a startup called Reflection to Use Their Technology for quote lawful operational use. Uh I don't trust them at all. These companies join XAI, OpenAI, and Google in providing Pentagon, Pentagon with AI tools. The Pentagon says these agreements will accelerate transformation toward making the U .S. military an AI first fighting force. Notably, Anthropic is still out of the mix despite that recent productive meeting at the White House. Anthropic CEO, Dario Amoti, an ideological lunatic. He's such a moron. But I think nonetheless, from what I understand, from everyone who works in government, Claude remains the top player here. And it's it's stupidity on the well, it's kind of saying things twice, stupidity on the behalf of Pete Heggseth. You have to assume he's smart in the first I think he's gonna be out. I've I have this feeling. He's gonna be out. I do. I don't know why. I just was like, oh he's gonna get rid of him. He's too much of a moron. He's such a like I know he looks the part and he's like does his chest puffy thing for Donald Trump, which he likes, but I just think he's I think the knives are out for this guy 'cause he's such an I just can't figure out which one they're gonna get first, Patel or uh and by the way, SNL did a great job on both of them this week. Um Aziz and Zarya did Patel. And of course Colin Jost Jost as PDX says is just fantastic. Um but I think he's in moron and it's fine to have all these people come in and do this stuff, sure, why not? It just seems like that's a lot of people in there in that room. I don't think it's I I feel like somehow it's probably too chaotic to have all of them there on some level. Maybe not. like kind of the first person who's sort of said no to the tech bros and to hag seth and trump and he's gained I think a lot of stature from that. And but at the same time he can, you know, he can say that fine, I'll be one of the seven companies. The breakdown wasn't over capabilities, it was over guardrails, right? The DOD wanted uh cloud deployable for all lawful purposes. Right. Yes. I think Anthropic said no to autonomous kill decisions. And so a federal judge said the Pentagon's move looks like an attempt to cripple anthropic, which is an i it's just so weird. All these all these tech bros who are all are all looking for the next check and bailout in their own crypto scheme, going after Dario, I think it's I think Dario's in a great spot right now. Oh, for the next era ? Oh wow. Yeah, he looks really solid. Trevor Burrus Next, if there's a Democratic president, he's gonna be the poster child for the Democrat. That this is more powerful than nuclear weapons. We don't have private venture-backed companies making nuclear bombs. Correct. So it's a okay, if you really believe that, then shouldn't shouldn't you all by virtue of defense for for defense reasons, be government controlled and owned companies? Yes. Yes, yes. Or highly regulated. Because you're claiming that these things are more powerful than any technology ever. We don't Scott, stop making sense. Please stop. I'm really excited about the potential for a democratic administration because I think there's going to be a lot of momentum around. All right. Here are some basic common sense regulations we would apply to any technology that is a quarter of what you claim the peril is here. You're the ones saying it's going to take employment over 20 percent. By the way, the French Revolution and the Weimar Republic descending into darkness happened when they hit 20 percent unemployment. You're claiming this thing is learning so fast that it'll be able to turn on itself. Well, okay, so shouldn't that mean you are not allowed to release anything to the broader public until we have given you the badge of clearance on it? I think it's just gonna be so easy for somebody to kind of step in and say, all right, uh you guys win. You have scared us so squarely and so rightly that we are going to we are going to um have regulators and the defense department and the DOJ in your fucking knitting, folks. And at the same time, they need to strike a balance such that Chinese LLMs don't get well ahead of us. But at some point you have to realize, okay, uh when does when does the well-being of civilization begin to even remotely rival the excitement of your IPO? It's just the the tech bros have become so used to as long , as long as I'm gonna get my face on the NASDAQ billboard, I can overrun all social concerns and I can even brag about how fucking dangerous this is They're sticking and then they have, you know, again, Emile Michael is their all their best buddy, which who in a in a strong way, you need to flush all these people down the toilet like immediately. Like not even like, let's all try to get along. First you take them out and then you start over again. And I think puts Dario in the best position in that regard, um, because he had the he had the guts to speak back, you know, or at least push back on just the most illogical, moronic statements by the Defense Department under this incredibly unqualified uh as cabinet secretary. I mean, really. It's so it's so ridiculous. Um, one of the problems, you know, sometimes there's nefarious people who are smart, right? And you're sort of like, oh, we're in trouble. But this is a moron. Like an actual like the moronic nature of both Cash Patel and Pete Seth is so apparent. They're not sly. They're not, you know, slyly evil or evilly sly or whatever at all. Tig Chaney is shaking his head Correct. I was like, uh oh, because he knows, right? He could do something. Um but I just I you're right. Uh Dario puts himself in a much better position for what's next if we may get there. Anyway. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails . I'm Midge first , two-time individual cell champion, championship MVP, and forward for the US Women's National Team. Before I went pro, I graduated from Harvard with a degree in psychology. Which comes in handy more than you think. Any athlete pursuing greatness knows there's a certain mentality you have to have. What people don't know is what that costs. In my podcast, Confessions of an Elite Athlete, I sit down with the best athletes in the world and explore the psychology, mindset, and unseen battles on the path to greatness. So take a seat and learn from the confessions of an elite athlete on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Maria Sheropova and I'm hosting a new podcast called Pretty Tough. Every week I'm sitting down with trailblazing women at the top of their game to discuss ambition, work ethic, and the ups and downs that come on the path to achieving greatness. We'll dive into their stories and get valuable insights from top executives, actors, entrepreneurs, and other individuals who have inspired me so much in my own journey. Follow Pretty Tough wherever you get your podcasts. So we are 2 50 years into this American experiment, and I'd say it's going okay. I give us like a C plus. There is no perfect past, but there is also no exclusively negative past . Because humans are gonna human. That's what we do. I think the story of America is the struggle of people who have not been included in the promise of America to expand those principles to include more people. What's gonna determine the next 250 years of America. And how do we write a new social contract that can give us the democracy we deserve? Okay, so I'm just gonna be a jerk here because I'm a historian, so we have to have a prologue explaining, you know, we the people. Oh. You know, I do still remember from Schoolhouse Rock. We the people, the order of the before we were perfect union, uh established justice. What is it? Ensure domestic tranquility. So you're talking about a foundational document. So I'm building a document that will protect American democracy. That's this week on America actually . Okay, Scott, wins and fails. Why don't you go first this week? Well my fail is the board of directors for GameStop. If you're gonna be an SEC publicly listed company, you have a fiduciary responsibility to not impose a tremendous burden on other companies who are trying to serve their shareholders and serve their consumers and their employees. And when you make these ridiculous offers to another company that has absolutely no credibility, veracity, likelihood of going through, you're just in in some weird attempt to like ignite another meme craze in your stock. That's just irresponsible. and reckless And there needs to be generally speaking in business within from public companies to other public companies, there is sort of a code. You don't like when when when we were thinking about acquiring a company or a public company, and then we decided internally it doesn't make sense, we immediately sent them a letter saying we're withdrawing consideration, because we don't want to tie them up. We want, we want them to get on with their business in their life. Even though you could do it to uh distract them, but I was on the I was on the board of Urban Outfitters and at one point we were considering acquiring Abercrombie and Fitchwood at the time was hugely diminished. Oh, by the way, Cara, we missed that one. We could have picked it up for pennies. Pennies. And it's come it's come back hugely. Oh my gosh. Abercrombie. That would have been that one got away from us. We came very close. The Haney family that runs and controls urban outfitters are very, very smart people . And and but ultimately we passed. But the moment it was like the moment we made the decision, we could have gotten in the way of other competitors, American Eagle or whatever, to acquire it, kept it on the market for longer. But it was like, no, there's a code amongst good fiduciaries where you immediately say, we're not going to be a bidder here, such that they can get on with trying to sell it to somebody else. And this is such uh it's just irresponsible. I just I just hate this from like a decorum standpoint. It's a waste of everyone's time . He's not serious. And I love the fact that the market has responded by taking the stock down 11%. Anyways, Ryan Cohen's an ass clown. I mean uh my win is um uh uh Senator and University President Ben Sass. Did you see a sixty minutes interview? God. Oh, it's heartbreaking. And of course I turn everything back to me. I find he is such a like he's the best of conservative values. You know, his ability to talk about his faith, uh God, his fidelity to the Constitution, his fidelity to his family , and couch it as he struggles with uh pancreatic cancer. It's so eloquent and so moving. And I was um uh struggling with something that happened to me that really upset me this weekend. And he I watched his interview and he talked about um that at one point before it was he had the diagnosis of pancreatic cancer. He had, he said, hundreds of tumors around his spine, unbeknownst to him. And he was in such intense crippling pain that he was taking a dozen scalding hot showers a day that would provide him just minutes of relief, and then he'd have to take another hot shower. And so I started a practice where I'm like, okay, imagine you have that kind of pain , tumors all over your spine, and all you can do is lay down and then take another scalding hot shower. I'm like, what would this problem mean to me at that point? And it's a really healthy practice. Anyways, I have my my Bens ass tumor practice now. Oh goodness. Well he's still alive because of some of those technologies that are Yeah, but it's still it's probably too late. But there's so much going on. Of course, the this administration's been cutting all these things. But he's amazing. He was one of the first people to go against Trump too when it wasn't convenient. He also had a really lovely statement when they were talking about the worst thing about his illness. He stated that he was really sad that he wasn't going to be with his wife for as while a while. I mean it was just so such a lovely testament to his his wife and the way he framed it that he's gonna th that he believes they'll be together again, but he's upset that he's he's gonna have to wait. I mean this guy I it's Democrats should a sigh of relief that he is not Aaron Powell Well except the Republicans rejected him because he was early he was an early Trump opponent and then he got sort of Well I think he could have carved out of big lane. I don't know. Out. He was one of the people like Liz Cheney. And so he was in that gang that got shoved out of the whole party because they needed to be in uh, you know, the Trump hallelujah choir. Um so I I always found him to have a lot of courage, even before this. I reached out to him uh uh yeah him, his people over the weekend he's gonna come on uh the props of the pod. Um but anyways my win is just the just the perspective . And I I think I I would I would recommend that everyone watch that interview. It really does remind most of us. It's like that monk saying that the man with good health has a thousand problems , the man with bad health has one problem . When you hear what this guy's going through and you hear you hear how just articulate he is about government and and his views on things, I I really found it, I thought, God, this guy's such a great role model. I really hope I really hope he's around for I I love that he's getting attention now, but I think he's adding a lot of really wonderful value to the public discourse right now. Anyways, my my Okay. So my um fail, it's well, it's kind of a win in some ways, but um the New York Times interview with Tucker Carlson, he's done a lot of interviews lately 'cause he's trying out all his stylings to run for president, as we've noted. Um he's trying everything. It's fascinating to watch. The interviewer did a great job. Yes, Lulu Garcia Navarro, who's a friend of mine, did a great job pressing him back. He denied wondering whether Trump is the Antichrist. Lulu played it. Played the video and then he denied it. Again. He denied it right after. He goes, I never said that. It was I was like you saying that. She did a great job with him, but it was just int I think the more interesting is thing is you should watch all of them because he's preparing for a presidential run. And so his tricks and everything else are she's super smart. You you may not like Ducker Carlson, but he's highly intelligent. And um and I think he's an interesting It'll be an interesting fight over the Republican Party post-Trump. And, you know, obviously