Wins, Fails, and Closing Thoughts

Support for the show comes from Retool. Too many companies run critical operations on duct tape spreadsheets, Slack workflows, and whatever else they could cobble together. Not because they want to, because building internal tools means weeks of waiting on someone else's backlog. That's where Retool comes in. Build custom internal tools just by describing what you need. Prompt something like build me a revenue dashboard for our Salesforce data. And Retool actually build it on your company's data in your cloud with enterprise security built in. Go to retool.com slash pivot. We all need to retool how we build software. Support for the show comes from CoraWave. Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CoreWeve, medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CoreWeve powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose-built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWeave is the essential cloud for AI, ready for anything, ready for AI. To learn more about how CoreWave powers the world's best AI, go to CoreWave.com slash readyfor anything. Support for this show comes from MongoDB. If you're a developer stuck fixing bottlenecks instead of building the next biggest thing, then you need MongoDB. Mongo is a flexible unified platform that gets out of your way. It's ASIC compliant, enterprise ready, and built to ship AI apps fast. And it's trusted by so many of the Fortune 500 with their most critical workloads. Developers have a word for that kind of reliability. Actually, five words. It's a great fucking database. Start building at mongoDB.com slash build. Tell him he can't talk that much. Limit his talking. Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Callaway. Scott, I have officially left your apartment in New York State. Oh, you moved into your new place. Yes, I bought a a small apartment in Brooklyn in Park. I have to say I enjoyed it. We went this weekend, we went to Ikea for seventeen hours, which was fun, actually. The range of inexpensive. furniture and it's very lovely, actually. We we we it's very nice. I miss you. I have to move on. our relations our housing relationship. So do you know how many times I've been to Brooklyn in twenty five years? How many? Twice foot times to be the to go to the sew house there. There's no reason to ever live in the island unless you're going to JFK or Lagorda. We're very well known in Park Slope, I can tell you that. I got to stop. I don't doubt it. It was crazy. Jesus Christ. I can't even imagine. Hi Kara, welcome to Brooklyn. I know. That's exactly what happened. It was nice. So I have all these books that I get for my podcast and probably you do too, right? I I I cannot get rid of them here. I put them out on the stoop in Brooklyn, they were gone. I have to say I get all these free books and they're good books and they're all interesting, but I have to I like the whole culture of people walking by and taking things and giving away things. It's really nice. And so We are now officially semi not we don't live there, but it's nice and anyone can stay. you listeners can stay at my Brooklyn place. No, you can stay. I extend an invitation to you, Scott Galloway. But you'll never happen. Um because it has IKEA furniture, that's why you went to IKEA Yeah, I love Ikea. Why do you like IKEA? Uh 'cause it's 'cause actually it's fine. It's it's perfectly nice stuff. If you get the the more the slightly more expensive stuff there, it's fine. And it's I have really nice furniture in where I live and I just don't need more furniture. When I was there the Ikea sales lady wanted to have sex with me, but all I wanted was a was one nightstand. Ah I don't think you have an Ikea joke at the ready. I have to say Ikea is like it works really well. It's in Red Hook and Uh it was nice. The kids have a good time. We put 'em in small land. You know how everything has the weird names at Ikea. I don't. I don't think I've ever been to I an Ikea. Oh, okay. In any case, there's a place to put children while you shop. It's like so and then the then you have meatballs at the end. It's really good. Swedish meatballs. It's whole thing is fantastic. And And pear soda. It's it's very pleasant. So anyway. It's a phenomenon. It's um I still was making furniture all night long. I don't know. Ikea for me is It's like uh a porn video and that if I'll never be able to do the same thing at home. It just it looks different back here than in my own home when I try it. Yeah. Well I'm a lesbian so I can assemble the things well. I'm very good with your Are you building a wood canoe in your living room? I did. I have to build this bed. I gave up on it. Woodwork. Yeah. The other thing I did and I want to recommend, I went to my friend Sean Hayes' show called The Unknown. And it's a little bit about Internet it's a little bit about it it's really good. It's a one man show. Uh it's a Moloch. I think it's by David Cale, I think is the playwright. What a wonderful show. I have to we had a really nice time Broadway. It's off Broadway. He started off Broadway. Yeah. My Mexican friend. Uh builds all my IKEA furniture. I call my instruction. I call him my instruction Manuel. Oh my God. Just God. Okay. All right. Anyway. At least upgrade to West Elm. I have West Elm stuff. I have I have uh the other one transitioned the brand of West Elm. It's one of my first clients. I like West Elm, actually. They make I have several I have some I have a West Elm bed here and I love it. I have the strategy was? Well I'm patting myself on the back. Uh my first strategy engagement uh out of business school was helping position the old Navy brand and it was pretty easy eighty percent of the gaps for fifty percent of the price. And so my big insight at William Sonoma five years later was West Elm, eighty percent. Oh pottery barn for fifty percent of the price. Oh interesting. It's nicer than Pottery Barn. I think Pottery Barn is sort of lost. West Elm is the fastest zero to a billion dollar brands in history have been that axiom. Eighty percent of the county industry leader for fifty percent of the price, whether it's South West or Old Navy or West Elm. It's West Elm's a little nicer, and then there's the one room and board, which is nice. I get a lot of it. Oh they do a great I get a lot of their stuff not really as well. Yeah, and then what's the one that has uh the big air couch, the big Well restoration hardware. Restoration hardware. I have a I that's that has that has all of my stuff in San Francisco I got restoration. Well, Garr I I would I mean I used to be very into merchandising 'cause in that business. So the greatest in my opinion the greatest merchant of the last twenty years is is uh Garrett Friedman. I see of Prestration Hardware. Yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting cloud couch. For Cloud Couch. Uh, he and I he and I are friends. He he gave me a tour of their space in um In the meatpacking district. They it was really interesting in the restaurant, which I think does more dollars per square foot than the the store combined, but They don't serve alcohol 'cause he said he wanted a safe place for women to come and just hang out and then wouldn't when people drink alcohol, they get rowdy and obnoxious. I thought was interesting. So they doesn't serve hard alcohol. Oh. Well they have a they have a beautiful store in In Manhattan. I go to lunch there. It's nice. Anyway. I have different levels of furniture depending on the house. San Francisco's all restoration hardware. Anyway. All right, we'll move on. We love furniture. No, no, I I went to IKEA. I just I assembled furniture this weekend. Anyway, before we get to the news uh this weekend around eight million people one thing I didn't do I didn't go to a No Kings rally over because I was assembling a key of furniture, over thirty three hundred events around the world. I went to the last one, I think, over two hundred thousand people attended the flagship rally in Minnesota. Incredible crowds. Some signs uh stand out, including you can't bomb your way out of the Epstein files, My country went to hell and all I got was this lousy ballroom and balls for grabs with a sign that said free balls for republicans. They were I love the signs. I you know, it was really interesting a lot of peop. Eight million people. That's a lot of people. Was there one in London? I'm in London, although they did have a protest here which I didn't which I didn't go to, but I don't know. I did what all lazy people do to virtue signal. I reposted Yeah. I reposted other people sacrificing their I thought no, it was uh they looked wonderful and festive. I thought Bruce Spring I thought they were also did the messaging was excellent. I thought it was affordability, it's about no kings. It was I everybody has all the progressives have modulated in a way that I think is very attractive. Very they're moving into the James Tallerico version of Democrats, right? The hey, what are we gonna hear to help you? Affordability, we wanna thing. And the one thing I really like, there was a picture, a beautiful picture of Joan Baez and um Jade Fonda. that was with gray hair together was gorgeous. I thought that was I just thought it was visually very attractive. I think there is a real movement of people of all these elections happening and people are so sick of feeling bad. And feeling like Everything's a grift. It just feels it there's definitely a tide. I don't know if these protests help, but I like them. I think they're supposedly well, first off, it just feels and I say this all the time, but my buddy Dan Harris Action absorbs anxiety. It feels really good to do things with other people. And Timothy Snyder says that Protests start to build an infrastructure for organization. and taking names and people get invested in it. So they want to turn out again and they want to register people to vote. Yeah, so supposedly the supposedly there's a tipping point where if you get three and a half percent of the population to demonstrate, that usually connotes change. So this wasn't that, because that would be, I think about eleven or twelve million people, just some data here. The October pro protest drew roughly seven million and Uh Saturday's turnout was nine million. So it's building. And what's interesting or the most piece of data, I thought, is that two thirds of the RSVPs. Came from outside major urban centers including. Including conservative leaning states such as Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, Utah, South Dakota, Yeah. Did you see all the little villages card? Yeah. Yeah. That was kind of what is traditionally very conservative. Um And also the kind of the flagship was at uh uh Minneapolis, where almost a quarter of a million people turned out. Springsteen performed, you mentioned John Bias and Jane Fonda, Maggie Rogers and Senator Bernie. So just some context, the women's march in January twenty seventeen. previously considered the largest single day protest in U S history, Drew and estimated Uh three point three to five six five point six million people. So this is bigger. The BLM protests in June of 2020 drew an estimated 15 to 26 million people, but over several weeks, but that was spread across multiple days. So if the nine million person turnout estimate hold Saturday's protest would be the largest single day demonstration in American history. People are tired and they wanna do something. And it's not more it's not hopeless. I went to the women's one. I actually I took my sons to that. I made them more pussy hats. Well, that's the way it goes. We had actually had a wonderful time. I like doing things like that with my kids because they can see things in action. Um okay, moving on, uh President Trump says the US is In serious discussions with the new regime in Iran, but he's also threatening to completely destroy key energy sites if a deal is not reached. That's a nice way to negotiate. This is the Pentagon preparing for what could be weeks of ground operations in Iran, according to the Washington Post. Total number of US troops in the Mid East are now fifty thousand, around fifty thousand. That is insane amounts of people, roughly 10,000 higher than typical levels. uh the Iranian military is warning that any US occupation would lead to captivity, dismemberment, and disappearance. It is worrisome with all those people there. There's always something bad gonna happen. And as the war drags on, markets are sliding down with Nasdaq and Dow falling into correction territory last week and the S B down about seven percent. a trailing indicator of some of the stuff I think. But Um, I think it it's creates a jittery feeling just 'cause of the shifting back and forth. And if you notice a lot of Trump people and especially Marco Rubio and J D Mance were not on any of the Sunday shows. They're avoiding all the cabinet members are avoiding the Sunday shows. I had a really interesting interview before I went to New York with Tom Tillis. which I think you should all listen to is up today. I mean, he was expressing great distaste for this whole action. Um we had a he's a obviously very conservative senator from North Carolina, he's leaving. Congress so he feels like he can say whatever he wants, which he did. Um, so what do you think's happening here, Scott? I mean the back and forth and the the people are sort of tr uh trying to the Tr Trump blast zone on this situation. I'm sorry to use that metaphor, but To say it's complicated is an understatement, but I'm one of the people that would argue that. We've been at war with Iran for the last forty seven years. The first act of this regime in nineteen seventy nine was to take Americans hostage. The question is, is this escalation in the war? Uh Was it a smart idea? And I think if it had gone seventy two hours in terms of getting some coordination with European allies and even Gulf allies. you could have potentially declared victory and really had a win. Um This is kind of the definition of a quagmire, and that is I'm not sure at this point he has any choice but to put boots on the ground 'cause I and I had Senator Warner on my podcast. I would argue at this point Kara, Iran is winning. that the R G C has shown that they can they can push back the, you know The great Satans of Israel and the United States. And what is at the end of the day, I think this is an enormous failure of uh our intelligence director, uh, Tulsi Gabbard. to not contemplate or consider a scenario where they cut off the straits of her mood. probably advise that. She didn't want to go. She's the America first great. Her advance are on the maybe not so much kind of group. Yeah, but you okay, but they sh they're they're claiming now that they're gonna try and work with their allies. We're all saying, Fu you, if you're gonna be this much of a preg to us. But they've they're doing shit in reverse order. They should have secured the Straits and Foremost before doing this. They should have contemplated, well, what happens if they start firing Shahad drones that cost twenty thousand dollars and it costs us two million to shoot 'em down. What if they start firing them into Dubai? So Uh some basic scenario planning and intelligence from the people trying to I think he got that. I think some guy told him to do this. Yeah, but there's no leadership. It doesn't matter if it doesn't bubble up. Which is what Tillis said. Tillis was like I he always tries very hard not to insult Trump himself, but he's like the advisors. And he's particularly, for example, when after Steven Miller on immigration. He particularly goes after the advisors. He's like he's either you have an advisor who's stupid and just like w tells them dumb things, or you have an advisor who knows better who says nothing. Right. Who doesn't who tries to like assuage the president versus and he goes either way, his advisors suck, you know, and I think that's true, but at some point it's treating Trump like a toddler. Oh, we managed to keep him This or that. So it's a complicated situation there is this guy wants to do what he wants to do now and he has advisors who are either too weak to tell him the truth or tell him the truth and then get fired or slapped for it, kind of stuff. Um it's a problematic situ. It's not certainly not the The group of rivals that Lincoln had. Well, but a lot of people would argue on the opposite side that basically Secretary Rubio is the shadow president making these decisions and so is his son in law Kushner. So You know, which is it? Is he listening to people or is he not? Because To me, this is just such a striking intelligence failure to not do some basic scenario planning around what if. And we are now in a position of weakness where I mean the general not the consensus, but when I speak to people in the intelligence community There's a feeling, okay, the most obvio next step here is that he feels Right or not sending it. We have dispersed we anti we did scenario planning. We just we anticipated what if our leadership is killed and they have dispersed military and executive authority out to the various regions. So they're like, Cut off the head of the snake, that's okay. We're the snake's gonna keep moving. So there was no basic s uh essential basic scenario planning here and the general feeling is that he will land troops potentially on Carg Island and then try and secure Carg and do a deal to exchange Carg. For opening the straits of hormone. Right. No, but that's what we had before. Like one of the things that we're going to argue it's the one. One of the things when I talk to Tillis and when I also talk to Warner is that the same thing you're talking about these drones and everything else. Like the word obliterate, that he obliterated it months ago, the nuclear facilities, but now he's obliterating more and You know, tell us who's sort of hat seems to run out of fox who's like, Yeah, we obliterated it again and then we obliterated it. Like you know, that That's like uh to say you obliterate. All right, so essentially what you have to be the fun of Trump, I believe. That's what was happening there. Again, the the key word in all of this coming out of Ukraine and now this war is asymmetry. And that is wars. And the shaping of you know energy routes and ability to solve things without when diplomatic means have failed have been based on very expensive platforms and technology no one else had access to. It has gone in. Entirely other way. And now you can essentially build A drone for twenty thousand dollars with a two stroke engine similar to what's in a motorcycle. And that's like to say you're gonna obliterate it, w if t if we all of a sudden declared war on Texas And most of the southwest, actually which Iran is bigger than, and said, Okay. How do you find every little factory that's pull pushing pulling together lawnmowers? That's what you're up against. You're not going to be able And then they launch forty of these things and the defense systems get confused. And all you need it's similar. Similar to Department of Homeland Security or the FBI. They have to stop every terrorist attack, right? The notion that just one one ship is set on fire or the Burj Khalifa is taken down in Dubai. That's all they need. And what's actually stopping this, and you can imagine if you're transporting tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of a product called oil through a dangerous area. There needs to be insurance against that payment, against that that substance arriving at its destination. In other words, there's cross-party collateralization in insurance. And right now I would argue it's actually holding up the Straits of Hormos. I don't believe any insurance company is willing to insure these tankers right now. Yeah. I don't know what I would do if I was running these companies. Anyway, we'll see what happens. It's still confusing and it's gone on far too long this confusing. And I think that's the real problem. If he had after seventy two hours said We've we've further diminished their ability to fund proxies. We have substantially denigrated their launch capabilities. We have we have made the the the leadership infrastructure much more insecure and diminished it vastly. We are now gonna work with our Gulf allies. And European nations to try and maintain a sense of security and keep it in a box. Probably could have declared at some level victory. But Scott, Chaos follows this guy. The chaos is his his brand right now. Anyway, um. Uh let's move on. The boys are uh really back together, speaking of which, yeah, speaking of chaos, Elon Musk probably joined a phone call with President Trump and India's Prime Minister Modi about the Strait of Hormuz. It's unclear whether Musk spoke on the call and neither government mentioned his presence in the official readouts. Meanwhile, As we all know, SpaceX is preparing to launch the largest IPO of all time, reported targeting a one point seven five trillion dollar valuation, which is kind of a lot over their revenues, but okay, fine. That's it's a Must company. Musk reportedly wants to have investors come to SpaceX to see facilities and rocket launches. He does that a lot. He invites people in to show off his wares. Impressive wares. He does he's doing that with robotics too, which are pretty cool. Um the company is also considering limiting share sales by early investors, a preferential for investors in Musk's other companies, which is why they suck up to them. So that's why they buy Twitter so they can get into this. And reserving a large portion of the shares for individual investors. That's fine. That's great. Speaking of Making amends with his enemies text released as part of Musk's lawsuit against open AI show that Zuckerberg tested Musk, saying Looks like Doge is making progress. I've got our teams on alert to take down contact. doxing or threatening the people in your team. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Oh, he does want to content moderate. Musk hard in the message and then asked Zucker would be open to bidding on open AI with him, which the two seem to have spoken about on the phone. I mean, these people say one thing in public and another in private, but talk first about um the phone call then the IPO and and you know, Mark Zuckerberg will talk to anybody if it means a deal. So that's what I think about that. I d I don't have a problem with the president inviting people into a call that he thinks can help achieve the objectives, whether it's someone who has domain expertise, whether Musk is the right person to have the on the call, but I think the president should bring to bear any resources he thinks is gonna result in a more productive conversation. Sure, I guess. And Modi is probably wants probably wants uh, you know, Starlink or maybe Modi and Musk have a pre existing relationship. Who knows? Or maybe like you said, he's just showing them off. The staggering thing for me is I I can't wait for the S one because the target valuation of one point eight trillion dollars. This company You know, it it it it's projected or generated roughly fifteen to sixteen billion and about eight billion in profit in twenty twenty five. That means at the IPO, it's trading at a hundred and nine times trailing revenues. That's a must company, right? Are you gonna do like you did with We Work? Well, but that's more than pound. Oh, no, no. This is a real company. It might be overvalued. Yeah. But We Work as it's scaled lost more money. This is this is a company with un an unbelievable product and motes. It's but it two things can be true at once. Is it an unbelievable company with I think probably the widest motes in the business world right now? Absolutely. For now. Um but it everyone feels like a distant number two. Like who's the number two here? I don't know. I think people will catch up in this. I think I mean it's like look. Everyone said no one to catch Tesla. Everyone caught Tesla and it was a lot faster than we thought, right? Yeah, but manufacturing manufacturing and EV versus launch capability. I think I think Bezos is working on it. I think a lot of countries there's fr the ones happen in Europe. I think look It's not gonna be the only one and everyone's gonna be like, Why are we you know, it's sort of like the Lockheed problem, right? I think a lot of people think it's an attractive thing. Ninety percent of launches. I get it. It was curly. They remember when he said it. They're the only company in the world right now that is capable of putting humans into space. Yep. And when you look at when you look at space and whether it's energy or connectivity or s or or space, military or space defense, they're all for a while gonna have to come through. SpaceX at the same time. No question. At the same time, is it worth Yes. Tesla situation. Tesla is declining precipitously and yet it's still trades at a ridiculous But Musk owns roughly forty two percent of SpaceX. So this IPO could make him the first recorded trillionaire in history. And on Calchy, the odds that he'll become the a trillionaire this year are seventy one percent. So there's almost a three in four chance, according to a lot of people, that Musk is about to become a trillionaire. And That is in my view. Really Uh troubling. Yeah, because I think as a species We need guardrails. And money d directly translates to power. And I don't think any unelected person should have this much power. Yeah. He definitely and p pushes himself into every single aspect of our lives, you know, in some way, and he'll do it more so politically. Well with a trillion dollars, say he takes Say he says, okay, I'm I'm gonna die soon and I wanna be worth five trillion. And I'm gonna I wanna I wanna decide who the next president is. I'm gonna take three percent of my net worth. Which would be thirty billion dollars. There's there's evidence that he had a big influence on Trump's election with two hundred and fifty million. So with he didn't in Wisconsin with twenty five. That's a lot in that state. Like I think it's a mixed bag. When he shows up It's a lot of money. When he shows up, it's a lot of yeah no. You know, I think Citizens United and a guy being worth a trillion dollars agreed. Is really scary. It also has effects of if this guy is he's like the soros or he's the soros of the right, essentially now. Right, on some level. And I do think it has a negative impact and it and alerts people to this situation that he I don't think money buys everything. He's he's failed in a number of areas, like Doge, he's failed in like he fails quite a bit, which of course is his his brand is I fail and then I succeed. And I think in a close election, which most presidential elections are, he could absolutely swing it. He already has. He already has had more impact than any individual in recent history, especially killing people across the globe with Doge. I mean, again, I I it it'll s we'll see what happens here. But they certainly It's gonna be the blockbuster IPO and it will be overvalued by a lot given, you know, they'll have a lot of shis to cover and then they'll have the money to do so, right? To to sort of create that mode. Incredible. It's an incredible. I won't even call it a product because what it really is, it's global infrastructure. Um they have the largest commercial satellite constellation. It's no and which by the way is no longer NASA, it's SpaceX, and as of May twenty twenty five. Starlink controlled more than seventy six hundred satellites, or two thirds of all active satellites in orbit. The majority of new satellites launched globally in late twenty twenty four were Starlink. SpaceX plans to scale to forty two thousand satellites. That's up six fold. Yep. global information system. Making Starlink the de facto broadband backbone in space and projections for the end of twenty twenty five. Six million subscribers and sixty two percent of global satellite broadband revenue. Um going to one company and most competitors can match space access price, cadence, or reliability. I know Facebook has tried, uh Amazon has tried. They're all trying. I I f I always feel like this is these are these high water marks for these people. But that's I I I you know, it you have to hand it to him. I remember when he talked about it for the first time to me. Um the the creating this two people were talking about this at the time. Him and oddly enough, Jerry Yang had an investment in a low And it's the first time I learned of it. So I got real I learned I I I got caught up on the topic, like what it was gonna do. But Jerry Yang had an investment in one. It was he's the first person who talked about it and then Must that same year started talking about it. This was a long, long, long time ago. It was really at the time I remember thinking no one's talking like this. Like everyone else was like doing a fucking dating service or some dumb thing. It comes down to some very boring numbers. And that is The cost to launch a kilogram of material, usually a satellite, into low earth orbit. And this is what SpaceX's falcon heavy rocket can launch into a kilogram for it. They can launch a kilogram into space for fifteen hundred dollars. Arian's five G. It costs them ninety two hundred dollars. Their electron product costs nineteen thousand. Their launches, SpaceX's launches occur every two to three days. No other provider is within range. So They are They are six X less expensive. Chinese certainly have capabilities here. So anyway, it was I don't know that much about Chinese. They do. They and so you know, one of the things it'll be interesting to see what happens here and what the these forces are really powerful, and he is a very powerful single person. It does put him at great risk too of being a a not just a not a physical target. That's not what I'm talking about. But when something like this happens, there's always forces against it that I think that we that will start to build. He becomes in he becomes soros. He becomes soros in a weird way. And I I feel much more benign about Soros. Why do you think that I do too, but I'm talking about to the right, he or the Coke brothers like pick pick whatever one who's or Henry Ford back in the day. There was also a Texas billionaire and I can't remember his name, a million years, like in the twenties that did stuff like that. But there's a different like So and Cork the Koch brothers, they were all quite philanthropic. Well, not him. Not Elon, for sure. Musk is not. And Musk is infinitely more powerful and as a technology that can basically decide. Wars. And this is a guy who is reportedly addicted to ketamine. Yeah. That's what I mean. There's a lot of What could go wrong. Let me just tell you. It does feel like a Bond film, but less believable. I'll be protected by the Ludwig. Oh yeah. You're safe in Brooklyn. Yeah. A nuclear device gets detonated five hundred meters above midtown. Yeah, Brooklyn's gonna be fine. No, what I mean is that like if he's coming after me, he's uh he's not a fan of Kara Swisher. But maybe you should make nice with that. That's what I don't get about I talked to one of these guys that is building the bunker in New Zealand, a guy you know and And I'm like, you realize if shit gets real. And you fire up the G six fifty and you had to peace out to New Zealand, you realize your your pilots are gonna kill you and fuck your wife, right? Correct. And the table went quiet. I know. I said that to one of them who had a plan. I said, What's your plan? I said, I'm gonna kill you and take your motorcycle out too. I was like, of course. And then they were like, You could see them calculating how do I stop Kara from killing me. I said, You won't see it coming. You think If if if the shit goes to where these thing people think it's going. There's the people who die right away are the lucky ones. I exactly. I sometimes think that living in Washington I feel okay about that. Anyway. Let's not go there. Let's not go there. Congratulations, Elon Musk, on your space egg victory. Yeah, and your space. You're still a terrible person, no matter how rich you get. Completely unlikable. Anyway, oh I have to say one Brooklyn thing. So I was it was there was this crazy cyber truck parked across the street. I thought, oh, who's doing this, right? Where my apartment is. And it was tricked out. It was all manner of shit on it. And you know, just bunch of boys and they weren't they were just hanging out. And I thought at first they were like admiring it. And what was really funny is and they weren't they weren't sort of typical parks. I'm trying to like they were they were sort of sitting in front of it like talking about it. I'm I went over and I'm like, What do you think? And I wasn't making opinion. They're like, What a douche. They were like it was interesting because I just interviewed Louis Thoreau uh through uh who's Justin. Oh you you interviewed about the Manosphere? Yes, exactly. I'm so sorry. I'm way ahead of it. How was it? That's Justin's fantastic. I know it's justin's cousin. Um he's also a great filmmaker. Uh I gotta say it was really interesting is one the point thing he pointed out is even though a lot of these manosphere guys are really popular There's also a whole group of young men who are like they they mock them and enjoy being in on the joke and mocking them at the same time and also liking some of it but mocking them. And that was going on in front of the Cybertrack. They're like, Must be such a douche, but like whatever. And they were so cool. And I was like, Oh, I feel so much better about after talking to these guys. Cause they were so cool. And they also were in on the joke and I don't know. I just felt better. Anyway, yes, Louis, yes, it was great. And we talked of you. Oh. I'm supposed to have him on. I wrote a in my numerous mouse, I wrote a review of the of the show. I loved it. Yeah, it was really illuminating for me. Can I tell you the one line I love the best? I liked his I like his interview style and I was looking at as a professional how he does the interview style. I agree. When he's work when he's H S whatever T diddy, whatever, ticky, talkie, whatever, tick tacky. Um he was working out and he goes, Is this your leg day? He's British. And the guy goes, Of course it is. You know, like like an asshole. And like shows off his thigh, which is quite a a beefy thigh. Louis Louis looks at him and he goes You could work on those calves. And the guy just melt. And I was like, I love you, Louis. Through. I love him. He pronounced it through, unlike Justin. They pronounce it differently. Um anyway, it w he he has all these lines like that in there that he just eviscerates these people with kindness in a way that's Yeah, I agree. It's a really good show. Anyway. Uh Elon, good luck. Elon, you can work on your calves. Uh okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back, Anthropic scores a win against the Pentagon. Support for this show comes from Framer. Your website can set the tone for your brand, and it's the one touch point that every single one of your customers sees on the daily. So if you still struggle to make small changes or simple updates, you're potentially leaving opportunities on the table. That's why so many companies are turning to Framer, the website builder that turns your dot com from a formality into a tool for growth. Framer is an enterprise grade, no-code website builder used by teams at companies like Perplexity and Miro to move faster. With real-time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that include integrated A B testing, your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your dot-com from day one. Changes to your Framer site go live to the web in seconds with one click without help from engineering. So whether you want to launch a new site, test a few landing pages, or migrate your full.com, Framer has programs for startups, scale ups, and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and fast as possible. Lear how you can get more out of your dot com from a framer specialist and get started building for free today at framer.com slash pivot for 30% off a Framer Pro Annual Plan. That's Framer.com slash pivot for 30% off. Framer.com slash pivot. Rules and restrictions apply. Support for Pivot comes from Anthropic. Some questions are easy, but other questions are a lot more complicated than a simple yes or no. And when you're deep in the weeds trying to find an answer to one of those problems, you want a partner who works just as hard as you do. And Claude from Anthropic was designed to be that partner. Cloud is the AI for minds that don't stop at good enough. It's a collaborator that actually understands your entire workflow and thinks with you. Whether you're debugging code at midnight or strategizing your next business move, Cloud extends your thinking to tackle the problems that matter. And with Cloud, you can actually build interactive tools and apps to help your workflow. Just describe what you need from custom calculators to data visualization dashboards, or even prototypes, and cloud can cover it all without writing a single line of code. Plus, cloud's research capabilities go deeper than basic web search. It can have comprehensive, reliable analysis with proper citations, turning hours of research into minutes. Ready to tackle bigger problems? Get started with Cloud today at cloud.ai slash pivot. That's cloud.ai slash pivot, and check out Cloud Pro, which includes access to all of the features mentioned in today's episode. Cloud.ai slash pivot. The Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments you plan, and the ones you don't. There are those all-night study sessions, the moment you're working from a cafe and realize every outlet is taken. The times you're deep in your flow and can't be interrupted by an auto update. That's why we build tech that adapts to you. Built with a long-lasting battery so you're not scrambling for an outlet. And built in intelligent and makes updates around your schedule, not in the middle of it. Find technology built for the way you work at Dell.co.uk forward slash DellPcs. Built for you. Scott, we're back. Anthropic just scored a win in his fight with the Trump administration, obviously. A federal judge in California granted a preliminary injunction, temporarily blocking the Pentagon's efforts to label the company a supply chain risk. The judge didn't mince words in her ruling saying this is a classic illegal First Amendment retaliation. Exactly. She also called it a quote Orwellian notion to brand an American company a potential adversary for expressing disagreement. The Pentagon is pushing back, expected to appeal, of course, with senior official Emile Michael, another loathsome character, tweeting the ruling is a disgrace. Oh, Emile, get over it. The final decision in this case could still be months away. There's also a second lawsuit pending in D C. Anthropic won the battle. It you know, it's it's it's problematic to be in this ridiculous fight. I think it'll be over by midterms when they they jack. hexeth out of the place, but also a potenti and and meal too, also a potential factor. Anthropic is really considering going public as soon as October. That is problematic for them. Um So what do you what do you and related, a federal judge has put on hold the six point two billion dollar merger between Nextar and Techno, which would create the largest operator of local TV in the country, sixty-nine percent o over the former thirty some percent amount you're allowed to bring together. The judge granted a request from Direct TV arguing the merger violates antitrust laws. A fourteen day restraining order has been issued and a hearing is scheduled for April seventh. Eight attorneys general have filed a separate lawsuit. I I'm gonna just play this. Let's listen to what our least favorite FCC chair Brenda Carr oh sorry, Brendan Carr, uh had to say at C Pac. President Trump took on the fake news media, and President Trump is winning. Look at the results so far. PBS defunded. NPR defunded. Joy Ring gone from MSNBC. Sleepy Eyed Chuck Todd gone Jim Acosta. Gone? John Dickerson gone. Colbert is leaving. CBS is under new ownership and soon enough CNN is gonna have new ownership as well. Boy, this guy is just just not doing his job, honestly. It's seriously, he's such a suck up to the Trump administration. He's just explicit about it. And he's also not very smart. He's a moron. Um, so talk about these these next star, the the anthropic thing. It looks like everything as usual Trump does. He does something aggressive and stupid and loses in court, but he still does damage. So talk a and then Well I'll go in reverse order. Brenda car has no business in the federal government. You're you're not supposed to go into the government to use it. As a means of attacking your political enemies and freedom of speech. Yep. I mean just the notion This guy makes gobles look thoughtful. And that is the uh directly calling out people who don't agree with your political views and then weaponizing government to try and get People whose views you don't agree with off the air. That's I and it's like it's just so blatant. It's uh okay, so When we get to appoint an FCC chair, we're gonna go after Hannity and I mean, is that is that where we're headed? Do you want us to start let him blather on his idiotic stuff. I don't care. Well it's just not qualified to be in government. With respect to anthropic. Most major AI companies have bent the knee to the government and worked with them. In any any military context, last year Google dropped its ethical guidelines that included a list of applications it would not pursue, including weapons and surveillance. But it used to be able to do so. Without a problem. Is that right? And then they put in guidelines and then they I thought they were they relaxed their guidelines. They did relax them, but I'm saying they used to be able to say no and and nobody had a problem. They just didn't work for them. That's all. Well that's the whole point of private enterprise. You get to choose your c you can fire your clients just the way consumers get to pick companies. Companies get to pick their consumers unless it's based on sexual orientation or race or what have you. Meta changed its policy to allow US government agencies and contractors to access its Lama models for national security purposes. OpenAI, which once stated its goal was to benefit humanity as a whole, now has multiple contracts with the military and defense contractors. And by the way, I don' I don't mind when companies like Palantir say we're going to work with the government on in the defense department. I get it. But you should also have the right to not to I don't So Anthropic is really they're the only major AI company that has drawn a public line on autonomous weapons and mass surveillance. And now it's the only one being punished for it. But it's also winning in court, which is good, but it's still is it problematic for the IPO from your perspective? There all there are alternatives out there. We appreciate your stand, Dario, but for the time being, we're not expanding. our enterprise wide relationship with you because we don't want to be put on a list. Now having said that, having said that. Again, see above. What I believe is the biggest commercial opportunity in Yeah. is um to say no. And if you look at what's happened to Anthropic, they're now getting seventy cents on the dollar of every new AI dollar being allocated to AI from the enterprise. So it looks as if their ability to say no and get a court to say, yeah, this is bullshit. This is socialism, cronyism, whatever you want to call it. I think anthropic, right now I've said that I think anthropic at this anthropic at this moment is worth more than open AI. What happens is the mark that people invest at is a bit illusory because if they get a preferred return, meaning no matter what happens, they get their money out. sooner or they're getting a guaranteed seventeen and a half percent return, which is what Sam is Offering to private equity firms. then that eight hundred and fifty billion dollar number is a bit of a head fake because as long as I'm getting seventeen and a half percent, regardless of what it goes public at. But I would argue right now. the anth the momentum around anthropic is really strong and the momentum around open AI is really uh is really weird. So you think it won't affect it. What about the next star thing, speaking of moron, Brendan? Well we heard I was actually really moved. A lot of people push back on my comments about how local news is a dying. And a lot of people push back and said I hate to hear this. It's a it's really important work. And also to be fair. You know, there's a lot of local corruption. And the only check on it is local news. You know, seven I remember seven on your side. Seven on your side. From the hills to the seas to the San Gabriens. I'm Jerry Dumpy. Yeah. Uh who by the way Ted Baxter from Mary Telling Moore was based on. Supposedly wasn't supposedly Jerry wasn't very smart. Um But he had broad shoulders and just made you feel safer. I love Doran Gensler in D when I was in college and they also had Bruce Hurchinson and Jim Tunney and Point Counterpoint where they would have And that twenty seven minutes of real news was bested by the three minutes of two people arguing like crazy. Yeah. And then basically if it had been that era, you and I would have been a good local news team. No, I would have predicted hell the size of can of canned tomatoes. I I would have loved being a weatherman. I actually took meteorology my senior year. When I was trying to figure out what the fuck to do with my life my senior year in college, I thought I could be a weatherman and I took meteorology I thought a weatherman. I was gonna go in the military and you were gonna be a weatherman and here. I would have been an admiral. Not standing next to the president. Yeah. David Letterman started as a weatherman. Anyways. But we got pushback saying how important or I got pushback saying how important local news is and So I agree. They they do a great job. That you know, God be with you. Um So next next star techna. Okay, sorry. A judge is temporarily blocked what is it, a six billion dollar merger? Yep. Between Nextstar and Tegna, which would create the largest operator. And Uh so a U. It's a number from thirty some percent to sixty nine percent. Yeah, two thirds. Basically they'll have a lock on it. Yeah. And a US district judge, uh I think it's in Sacramento, granted. Uh, temporary restraining order and siding with directory V, who argued directory V, my God, they're still around, which argued the merger violates federal antitrust laws. Yeah. Eight state attorney general is led by California's Rob Bonta filed a separate lawsuit. And then in the ruling, he noted that companies do not contest the merger will increase next hour's bargaining leverage to extract higher fees. What does the ruling mean? It means the next star and Tegna can't Integrate operations for fourteen days. A hearing is set for April seventh to decide whether to issue a preliminary injunction. So like you said, if if the merger goes through, Nextstar would own roughly 260 television stations across the country, reaching about sixty percent of US households. And like you said before. It was about thirty nine percent. And the deal does violate FCC rules limiting how many stations a single company can operate. Brenda let it through, but go ahead. As we as we said, look, it's not a great business to be in unless you're in a swing district where they just basically start trying to advertise like crazy. Less than half of television stations report generating any profits from news. And last year about forty percent of surveyed local television stations reported decreasing their news budget. And local television has lost get this about half of its media spending market share since Since twenty seventeen, the business has been cut. in half in the last nine years. And as of June last year. Local TV accounted for just six percent of total media spend. Digital video, on the other hand, accounts for about Fifty so I I don't I mean it. We're gonna ha I think at some point we gotta end up with and people hate the BBC, but I like a certain amount of public funding. public funding for what I'll call local. Yeah, local public news. I think there's like what Craig Newmark did, I I think it's really important. And I I don't know if it's a philanthropist. I don't know if it's government funding like we do with the BBC here with a house tax. I don't think anyone should own sixty percent of a any industry. Even if it's dying still uncomfortable. Even if it's dying. I don't care. They can they can eke out a good little business from it and and influence things in ways that just w and they're also they're the ones that sort of sucked up Brenda uh during the Kimmel thing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I just Nobody. I don't want a liberal running sixty percent. I don't want anybody. Like I just feel like it needs to be dispersed, even if that problem is it's like a lot of media, it's a bad business if you don't have monopolies. And then it's just an okay business. I don't I don't know. Whatever. It's I hope they stop it, but they're not going to, but None the less. Uh I hope then the industry dies. And I hope there are two entrepreneurial local efforts going on. And there are a lot of them, by the way, across the country in Mississippi and Baltimore. So let's just have new stuff and forget these These compromise. I'm shocked you didn't bring up Vox. They are companies in play. Oh yes. Oh yes. Would you like to discuss that? Uh well I I have first off, let me say I have absolutely no insider information here. Uh I have a lot. You have a lot. I'm on the outside. But supposedly Vox is in discussions with Comcast, who is an existing shareholder, to take Vercent, not Comcast. I'm sorry, Vercent. Yeah, which is MS like Croissant. MS MBC and CMBC. To take the pot. Then they would sell the digital business. And also sell off NY MAG. And the way I would loosely describe it is. The digital stuff is a shitty business getting worse. Anytime you're dependent upon Amazon, Meta, and Google eventually they will screw you and take all the margin. Uh, those are difficult businesses. The New York magazine is a trophy asset. What do I mean by that? There is some crypto or hedge fund douche that will pay an extraordinary amount of money. to own New York magazine. There's a lot of people. It does well too. It doesn't it's not like a big smile. It'll trade at an irrational price. Yeah. Football teams make no money. They got sold for five, seven, and ten billion dollars 'cause some guy wants to go from being An overweight tech guy to the sexiest man in Cleveland by owning the Browns overnight. Okay, but can I just say it's also a really good journalistic enterprise and it does okay. I'm sorry, I'm not sure it does it w it won't go for an okay price. I'm saying it'll go for no it'll go it'll go for an irrational price. It's a nice price. The new owner is not gonna be into it for the cash flow or for journalism. The new owner is going to be someone. who wants to say I own NY Mag. It's like owning billionaires own football teams, Democrats own media companies. It'll go for an it's a So Scott will be buying it soon. It's a trophy asset. No, I'm sponsoring the Met Gala. I don't know if you heard. And I'm taking Emily Rodakowski. If that's what it takes, I am sponsoring the Met Gala. I got as I got texted Vanessa Friedman, who I think is a wonderful writer of Device Fashion, text me and it's like do you have any thoughts on the Met Gayla in Japan so I'm like Tech has way too much money, way too little cool. Fashion money, way too much cool. This is an exchange of value. Yeah, a good quote. This is the most expensive midlife crisis. In history, wouldn't it be easier for these guys just to buy a Ferrari and start banging their assistants. Or penis enhancement. Versus sponsoring the Med Gala. But anyways. Yes, it will sell. We know this. So NY Mag will go for an irrational price. And then the trophy assets, and I'm not talking my own book here because Prop G is independent. We just sell our ads through Vox, but Pivot is co-owned by Ume and Vox. No, they don't own it. We own it and they're our partner for the next four years. I wish you would do that correctly. But they don't. We just Okay. We own we own it, uh and we can't do anything with it for the next three years. But anyways. No, okay. Uh those are the assets. Podcasting at Vox, and uh and I'll just talk about us. uh is growing, you know, twenty-five plus percent a year, maybe thirty percent a year. And then when they and when they get scale, they're amazing businesses, because quite frankly, there's just not There's not a lot of cost involved in these things. And you're seeing and quite frankly, I also think we're benefiting from Trump to the extent that I think people are really hungry for thoughtful I don't want to call it progressive, but a a thoughtful pushback. We but we also do good at you did Warner. I did Tillis. We do all kinds of manner of things. Anyways, the the the crown jewel. Is is the Vox Media Podcast Network. But the the thing that makes the most sense here which is what Jim is doing is that when you have a conglomerate It doesn't have really obvious synergies, which quite frankly I would argue this one doesn't. people, the market looks at the shittiest asset in the portfolio, which is these digital properties, and it assigns that valuation to the entire thing. So the disposition of assets is accretive to shareholders. And Jim has figured that out and he's gonna split up the company and he's gonna have a very focused podcast company that tries to industrialize podcasting, which is video, I would say, because podcasts are video now. That's that's a great point, because effectively what you have. is podcasts are the new T V shows with a lower means of cost of production. I would argue if he sells, he'll get an amazing price. And I don't I again I see above, I have no insider information here. He'll get an amazing irrational price for New York Mag. He could sell the digital stuff for a dollar and just be a podcast company growing twenty five percent a year, and it would be worth more. So this it makes all sorts of strategic sense. Comcast is probably Comcast, I think, invest Comcast did invest. Yes. And so did it. Comcast was the initial investment. Yes, but the investment went over to Vercent, just so you know. Well okay, the Rob Roberts family is ready to get some money back. They've been in this thing for 10 years, 11 years. They've probably said, okay, we want some money back. You need a strategy here. I think it's gonna be very interesting to see. Yeah, we'll see. One of the things that I think reporters have gotten wrong about it, and I I'm not gonna say much more because I do know a lot is that you can't one of them is like you can pick off these podcasters, what's it worth? Cause you can you actually can't once you have a good and Scott and I went out in the market and looked at a lots of people and there were a lot of them were great. a lot of them don't have stuff, right? And so this would be attractive to people who it's really hard to sell advertising well. It's really hard to do distribution well. It's very hard to do production well. And Vox does that well. And there's a couple of companies like that that do it well too. There's Crooked, I think, does a nice job. So it's valuable and it's not as easy to replicate as you think and getting picked off isn't you sign four year deals, everybody, and some people have guarantees. We don't happen to have that. more revenue to us. Um but it's harder to do than you think. And even if you're not satisfied with the advertising sales or whether you got big or not. It's their box is one of the better ones, is which is why we stayed, right? And and and we could certainly sell our own advertising. It's just a slog and it's hard. It's really hard to do it well. And so it is an attractive asset. And there's a lot of people this could plug into. a lot and just use your imagination and also not just companies, but individuals who want platform C N B C needs to do something. Exactly. I mean you know there are you're seeing CNN trying to do podcasting with Jake Tapper and Anderson. C M B C microphones. With sleeveless dresses and Andrew Rossorkin. I mean if you're new. By the way, why why does Joe Kernan get sleeves and none of the other people do? Anyways Yeah. We do not want to see them arms. Brian Roberts and Comcast, they are very. They own only a certain portion of it as a public company. It's similar. There's others. Anyway, it's the right. It would help Versecent, which also needs to be innovative, so in that regard. But there's lots of others. MS MBC MS Now I'm sorry. MS Now. Now MS Now and CNBC need a growth strategy. They're they are in Businesses and structural decline. The average age of M MS now viewer, I think it's sixty four, CNBC at sixty seven. The average age of a podcast listener is thirty four, the average age of pivot listener is 42. They need an audience that isn't is gonna be around for another five or ten years that buys shit that is in the midst of buying homes, having kids, making investments, buying mutual funds. And they're smart people. So they do I mean C N B C does an amazing job. They have some of the finest financial journalists in the world. MS now has some of the most talented people in the world. So but what they need is is they need a structural growth engine. They need to b find platforms that are growing and are attracting a younger audience. And to help their talent too. And they've been trying, but they're they've definitely been trying with more than that. You know who probably inspired this whole idea? Me. What? Other than you. is Nicole Wallace. Yes. Because Nicole, who's got a very popular show on MS Now, started a podcast that immediately Went to the top of the ring. I would bet Nicole's podcast is probably doing it. Seven or ten million a year in ad revenue, which doesn't seem like a lot, but I bet six or seven of that is go close to the bottom line. So you gotta think the folks at Verseant, Comcast, Roberts, Joey Bag of Donuts, HBO Now, whatever you want to call it. They've gotta be looking. They've gotta be looking. When you look at the charts, you and I are near the top as in pivot, uh uh individually, both of us are, all your market stuff are. Um lots of lots of Vox podcasts are near the top and over all the the network ones. We're often high we're always higher than all of them. So anyway, it's interesting. It's an interesting time. We'll see what happens. And we're nothing at all. Nothing at all might happen. We'll see. Anyway. Um uh it makes sense to us though. Uh uh we'll go on a quick break and when we come back, the White House launches an app. here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop. It's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling, and questioning. It's gonna be fun. We rarely agree. But we almost never disagree, and we're always learning. That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. This week, in two different courtrooms in the United States, juries handed down verdicts that suggest that social media platforms, while not responsible for the content on their platforms, may be responsible for the way their platforms actually work. And that might change the way that social media works. This week on the broadcast, we're exploring all of the ways that social media could change and might not. Plus the 50th anniversary of Apple, and why after trying every other phone I could find, I wound up just buying another iPhone. On the VergeCast wherever you get podcasts. Scott, we're back with more news. The White House just launched an official app for iPhone and Android featuring press releases, an affordability tracker, and an ice tip line, of course. The Trump administration says the app offers a direct line to the White House, letting people text the president sign up for newsletters. But those features just link to White House contact forms that are already there, letting the administration users' personal information and some additional privacy concerns. People digging into the app, it took five seconds, found that it's tracking GPS location data every four and a half minutes. It's a privacy nightmare. Do not download it. I would rather give my ex wife access to my text message history. Then sign up. I mean who is fucking stupid enough to do that? I know. It's not trustworthy. Don't sign up for it. No, but I mean I wouldn't mind that the White House has an app. It's just this one is a people were like, okay, a company doing this, you call them scummy. government doing this to its citizens? The same people that are demanding voter rolls that are that are that are targeting people, uh that are hiring Palantir to surveil people and you want to sign up for their app? Don't and it's really sad because the White House should have direct communication with people, but to help people not to take advantage of their fucking information. These people, like literally, but someone who does apps is like, I I would think this is scummy for a scummy person, right? Not our federal friggin' government. Very typical of the Trump administration. Do not get it. Do not get it. And also an ice tip line, what kind of person are you that you tip on people? Ugh. My grandfather was, you know. A J mobby mob mob adjacent, I would say. Not really in the mob. Um, but like I hate a a rat. A rat. A rat. A rat. Like you know, it's fine to say see something say something. You see a bag in an airport, yes, report it, but reporting on your fellow citizens is especially if they're not criminals. But they haven't they haven't committed a crime. If they're not criminals, fuck you for doing that, you terrible people. Anyway, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. This episode is brought to you by Vanta. Security and compliance done wrong is a headache. Done right, you build trust and grow faster. That's Vanta. For startups, Vanta acts as your first security hire, using AI to get you compliant fast. For enterprises, it's your AI powered hub for compliment. Risk and automating workflows. From startups like Cursa to enterprises like Snowflake, top companies choose Vanta. Do security and compliance right. Get started today at vanta.com Hey Sainsbury's! We get through so many snacks. Have you got anything to help me save? Well, we're always matching and lowering prices. So hundreds of Sainsbury's fresh fruit, veg, and everyday products are price-matched to Aldi. And every week with Nectar, you can save money on thousands of the products your family loves. So you can. Snack away knowing you're saving money. Sainsbury's. Good food for all of us. Selected products. Ld price match not in NI. Nectar prices require nectar account. Terms at Sainsbury's.co.uk slash LD PriceMatch and nectar.com slash prices terms. Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. There's so many. I think I shall start. You go. You know, I really I I have to say I really like I didn't think I'd say that, but I do. I'm a Manhattan girl. But I really enjoy uh being there and uh spending time there. I like going to different places and but I mostly want to say the win is Scott Galy for being such a good landlord to me when I was in New York. Thank you. I he's been generous and I love his apartment. It's wonderful. Um but I really um I love being in like a lot I feel really good about cities and I feel like New York feels great. Washington does feel great. I'm going to San Francisco soon. I just I'm very, uh I'm very up on cities these days and like kind of the creativity that you see everywhere, um, in in them and just kind of just a m I just love a melting pot of people. I really do. Um So I really I I'm I'm Windsor cities again. Melting caught it. Three thousand dollars a square foot. Yeah, who's melting? No, we have talking things. But I'm just saying I went all over the city. I went all over the city and and it just was I just love a city. I just love a city. I so could have predicted you'd end up in Brooklyn. I d no Oh, yeah. I would have done the West Village, but Amanda really likes That Mary and she's friends there, and I get it, and I get it. I get it. I get it. Anyway, um, you're gonna have Birkenstocks. No, I'm not. I never wear Birkenstoc. It's never happening. No, I wear vans, let's be clear all right, and my fail is um God, there's so many, but I think the worst one is I mean, I was going between Melania Trump's robot for teaching children, which I'm like, worst idea ever. I'm sorry. Like I don't mind robots folding laundry and I'm sure we'll have them. And I don't mind them delivering things fine, whatever. But Teaching children should be done by people with help from technology. That is fine. But this personalized educators for American children and her walking out there, I couldn't tell which was the row button, which was Melania. which is a typical joke, but honestly, what an idiot. I she's really what an a moronic thing to to to feature at the White House is a featured stage and to f stage the idea and insulting teachers. I I I my my kid just got in my little kid got into the same public school Claire's in for next year. And I went walked by the teacher day and I said, Yeah, Saul got in um to the class and she was like, Yay, go. And I just love I just I love the teachers. They really are dedicated and committed, the ones we have dealt with, especially in public schools. But all the schools that the kids have been to. Um and so I just hated that that thing. And Trump's signing the US currency. It was always been a treasury secretary person. Just another grotesque. Like look at me. Mommy didn't hug me. moment. So just gross. Just just oh I can't wait till we get rid of all this stuff off all all the gold in the office, which has gotten out of control. And the whole thing. I can't wait. We tear it all down, every bit of it. So including getting his signature off the dollar when when he puts it on. Anyway, Scott. I like this. Uh so my win is and you mentioned this, I watched Louis Thoreau's documentary The Manosphere. And I I real uh it was very illuminating for me. Um and a few of the takeaways. Uh, first off, these Chronicle You know, icons in the manosphere, these podcasters or uh uh the folks portrayed. They're grifters. And they don't even buy the things that they don't even buy into the ideology. There's always a crypto scam or a trading platform. or or, you know, by their course or whatever it is. Um And they themselves this is not about ideology for them. This is just this is just purely a grift. And And I think a decent living selling ideology as a product. Well and they're also trying to sell masculinity and what I would argue is a decent Proxy for or a decent query for masculinity is simple. And ask yourself a question. Are you optimizing for attention or for service? And these guys are optimizing for attention, full stop. And the other the takeaway is I thought that Uh Louis really did a good job of exemplifying that. Um Strength is more about he's this slight guy. Who's a bit awkward. And he owns the room when he's in it. He does. Because he's quiet. He asks Questions. He's not mean. And the other thing The takeaway I think for younger men watching that is It's okay to occasionally absorb a blow. And that and I didn't learn this until I was older. I thought if someone was rude to me or came off in traffic, I had to restore equilibrium to the universe and get back in their face. And at one point in the documentary His subjects are making fun of him, mocking him. And he just takes it. It's like, I got a job to do. I'm in I'm in service here. The other thing that kind of rattled me was And I think this is true of the manosphere and it's a lesson for the left. I don't think I think a lot of the young men who are quote unquote in the manosphere or are drawn to these. These These men or these I don't know what you would call them. It's not that they necessarily buy into this bullshit. um ideology of dominating women or I mean actually some of these ide some of the stuff it actually starts off fine. Be fit, take control. Be aggressive, initiate your life, manifest success. And then it comes off the fucking rails and it's usually about just dominating women and being a total misogynist. But what you found I thought what was most interesting is when they interviewed some of the acolytes, the people who were really drawn to these people. It's really Upsetting because What these kids what these boys and they aren't boys, what they're looking for. They're not. It's not that they're drawn to this ideology or this political viewpoint. It's not even they're drawn I I don't think to the misogyny. They're drawn and they're so desperate for community. They want a reason to hang out with and have a common bond. among other young men. Yeah, they want to get better. They want to feel better about themselves. They want to this is where the left has failed. Mm-hmm. I agree. What orthodoxy or ideology on the left? Creates a community for young men. Yeah, you said that early on when Camilla's didn't have stuff on her thing about men. I don't think they're kill young men they're the problem. That's not a community to rally around. And I think I I think what we have to do is like feel like We're in it. Like I I the questions I got, you know, I have expert questions. One was for the guy who did adolescence, Jack. And then I had Gretchen Whitmer ask a question, which who's been doing a lot of man boy stuff in in the state. So yeah, you're right. You're a hundred percent right. Anyways, my win, I thought Louis Thoreau's Document on the Manusfair. I found it so rattling. I thought these young men Which is so sad. One one of the young men he was talking about his his brother took his own life. You could tell these young men are just so desperate. Define community and a sense of safety. It's not even the ideology they're bonding over, they're just bonding. Anyways, uh th that's my win. My fail is that I can I believe that the Democrats continue to show a lack of creativity and leadership around a series of incentives of what they are going to do. spell it out very specifically what they are going to do when they get control of the House and potentially the Senate. And it should be something along the lines of the following. Everyone is saying Oh, we can't go after these individuals despite their crimes because they're just gonna get a pardon. Bullshit. If you look at the law. Once Once Democrats get control of Congress and Senate, they have subpoena power. Once they get subpoena power, they should go after specific individuals for crimes and then they should coordinate, and this is the key. with the Attorney Generals in blue states. And start going after these individuals who are no longer Protected. by federal pardons. So for example, the Attorney General in California might decide that if a trade on crypto went through And that family members of the Trump administration We're illegally manipulating markets. or engaging in any sort of insider trading, that California AG can coordinate with Democratic representatives to bring a case against them. And that case is not subject to the protections of a federal pardon. They need to sooner rather than later put these people on notice. That if you are murdering people under the auspices of a secret police. If you are lying under oath, if you are engaging in crypto scams, if you have companies that overnight get contract in the military violating the emoluments clause. To be clear and a d a a candidate for president or a senator or Democratic representatives should outline specific cases They're going to bring against specific individuals in coordination with specific AGs in specific states that are not protected by a presidential pardon. And w then who's done that? Nobody. Rob th some of these attorney generals are working at it, Scott. I think that's not fair. I think they are preparing them for it. We got close with what was her name? Fanny Hill. Fanny In Georgia, the Fulton County. Yep. But unfortunately she like Christy N was fucking her number two, which blew that pa case apart. Yes, that didn't but there is real opportunity here. There is. I think there's more at I'm being contacted by a lot of attorney. I think attorney generals are really starting to coordinate quite a bit on around these things. One of the things that's critical for all of you people waiting for a Trump pardon, remember he's not gonna give it to you till the very end 'cause he's loyal only to himself and he's gonna extract something from you. And that might be too late. So I'm saying take that off the table. Yeah, I'm gonna I know, but I'm just saying it just I think a lot of people are gonna get it. If the A G in Minnesota is saying you committed manslaughter Mm-hmm. And you lied under oath. And as a result, we have an ICU nurse who is Who's buried. We can come after you. The presidential pardon or not, and these are the people we're coming for. And these are the subpoenas we're issuing when we're in control of Congress and the Senate. Anyways, that's my that's my fail is I think that Democrats need to start punching back more creatively and more aggressively. I like it. I like it a lot. Anyway. We want to hear from you. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com slash pivot. Send a question for the show or call eight five five five one pivot elsewhere in the Karen Scott Universe from the latest episode of On with Kara Swisher. I spoke to with North Carolina Republican Senator Tom Tillis. We talked about his upcoming retirement and how he can more freely criticize the Trump administration right now. Let's listen to a clip. I have expressed my concern in the past not no longer have to worry about what language I use to communicate it because I don't have to go through the cost benefits. You can be clearer than some of your colleagues, because I have to tell when I talk to some of your colleagues off the record, the Republicans, they're much more critical of Trump or Of course. But look, I mean, you know what all martyrs have in common? What? And in politics, that's losing elections.