Final predictions and closing thoughts

When West Chat first took flight in 1996, the vibes were a bit different. People thought denim on denim was peak fashion, inline skates were everywhere, and two out of three women rocked the Rachel. While those things stayed in the 90s, one thing that hasn't is that fuzzy feeling you get when West Jet welcomes you on board. Here's to Westjetting since 96. Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at WestJet.com slash 30 years . You can tell a lot about a person by their accent. I really do say I pack my cat and have it yad. Everyone around here says like a coffee and dog. We're so attached to the way that we so Your accent decoded. That's this week on Explain It To Me. Find new episodes Sundays wherever you get your podcasts. Support for the show comes from back market. Everyone listening to this pod has heard or seen an ad telling you how much you need their latest tech. Let me let you in on a little secret. You don't need that upgrade. Companies often tell you that you need this version just to find out it basically does what the previous version can do. That's why Back Market, the world's leader in premium refurbished tech, is giving you another option. Backmarket offers a range of high-quality tech inspected and refurbished by professionals. It's all they do. They have phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners, and even iPods plus. They're a company with a purpose, as refurbished tech is proven to have a significantly lower environmental impact than new stuff. Shopnow at back market.com . Think you're Scott Galloway? I don't think so. Why? Is he ever late, Scott Galloway? Oh is he ever late? I'm sorry. I I I she's yelling at me like she's my mother. She's my Italian mother . Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. Scott is off today and, I'm joined by the man who may or may not be running for president. It's Anthony Scaramucci, the Mooch, lawyer, podcaster, and founder of Skybridge Capital. Hello, Anthony. How you doing? All right, I'll stipulate right here on this show. You're my running mate. We're gonna go for it, Carrie. You and me, the day after April Fools. I'm your running mate. Let's flip that. Strike that. Flip it. Okay. You want to be the president? Okay, great. I'll be your running mate, okay? I'll grow a beard like JD Vance, okay? Yeah. Oh please don't. Emphasis on the word beard. Okay. What are we talking about today? Anthony, there is so much going on. I just don't even know. Explain people. You you put up an a a a fake uh April Fool's thing about running for president, correct? Yeah, well I thought it was gonna be I thought it was fun. I mean the reaction was sorta crazy actually. But I I thought I was real for a second. Like why not, given the craziness of this world. Well I mean the the truth of the matter is we could be doing better than we are doing right now. That's my honest opinion. But I I I I've never felt that political calling. But my my uh my staff made up that Mooch two thousand twenty eight hat. Yeah. And they said, let's put this out for April Fools. I said, okay, you know, I know I know how to play the jokes, you know. Yeah. Yeah. It was great. Last year I wrote that Elon Musk had given me a job at Doge. A lot of people thought that was true. You know, I don't know. I don't engage in April Fools. It's odd. I don't. I get tricked by them a lot. But I I I like it. I appreciate I th I believed it for a second, honestly. I was like, what? And I sent it to the staff. I was like, is he running? I mean again, you never know. Anyway. Let me stipulate. I'm not running. I'm running for re-election in my marriage and and Aaron knows my wife. How's the polling going? The polling is going up. I could be term limited. That's the one problem with my marriage. I'm worried about that. Running for re-election to my marriage. My wife has a political platform of castration. Yeah. I will not be running for president. But anyway, it was a good April for the yeah. We're getting into marriages in a second, but um I don't know if you're aware, I've taken over Times Square. Have you seen my my giant billboards in Times Square? Well I'm gonna be coming to your thing and congratulations on all that. They gave me two billboards. Have you ever been on a billboard? It's freaky. Not that I'm aware of, actually. I don't think I've ever been on a a billboard. Uh yeah. Well it's very exciting. They're all digital now in Times Square, as you know. In the old days they used to be actual billboards. And when I was a kid they had the Marlboro man, remember he smoked uh in Times Square. Being raised now, I went in March of 1972 at the age of eight to the Godfather premi ere with my uncle Orlando Scaramucci. Okay. And I sat in the balcony, I didn't understand anything about the movie of course, but I thought it was a cool thing. And when we were waiting outside the theater I saw the Marlboro man puffing the smoke. Yeah. Now we would never do that to our kids now 'cause we helicopter them and we we we shelter them, but I was watching. That's a good helicopter. That feels like a really acceptable helicopter. But uh everything's digital now. It's quite uh it was quite something. All these people sent me pictures of me with them uh you know, and it's like nine feet tall. It's a weird, it's a definitely a weird feeling. Well, first of all, congratulations. The show looks awesome. I love the uh I love the ads on the show. And it's a very topical, lively thing in a lot of people. Yeah, longevity. You know what's cool about that show? Everybody wants that. It doesn't matter what your political stripe is or who you are as a person. If you're enjoying this life on planet Earth, you wanna you wanna add a few years to it? Yes. Yes, exactly. I want everyone to come together. That was my whole goal in this It's true though, everyone is asking me, but I do want us it to be for everyone and not just rich people. And that was the goal is like what's working, what's ridiculous. Uh what did you tell me the other day? Um you like uh y there was a whole there's a bunch of stuff that you were doing that I thought was too much. What was it? I think I've learned a little bit about uh uh you know I have that methyl methylation gene defect where I can't methylate certain vitamins that was actually very helpful. So I took that genetic test and then they give me different types of vitamins that I'm able to absorb better. Oh, that actually lowered my blood pressure carrot. So that that I think does work. Which ones do you take? Can I ask you? Would you mind telling me what you take methylgard, I assume? That's exactly what I take. Yes. So 70 percent of the population, according to my doctor, has this genetic issue where they can't methylate certain vitamins. Mm-hmm. Okay. So that's all valid science. And uh so that what that did was it brought down something called homocysteine in my blood, which is an inflammation marker. It makes your kidneys a little bit tense. And so it was creating a little bit of high blood pressure. And it was creating, you know, a little bit of inflammation in my joints. So by taking that down, my blood pressure dropped and it wasn't anything more. And by the way, it's a natural amino acid that they give you in that methylgore that that reduces it. skin, thank God. But I'm keeping it together, but I think that stuff has helped me. And it's not it's not the, you know, I've gone into some life transformation cell and come out of it or anything like that. Scott. I'm I'm not that. But I have taken have taken the genetic Scott takes tries anything that goes by, any crazy shit that goes by. He's always like I'm trying this and they get he gets he abandons it and stuff like that. Anyway, it's an interesting issue and I want more people to be more healthy because actually the number one indicator of longevity is don't be poor because you don't get the right food, you don't right get the right health care, you don't get the right living, it's stressful living conditions and stuff like that. And that if we can help more people out of poverty or or get them to a level of s of feeling not stressed, the health care savings are massive. Um we're gonna live forever. That's what's happening. There are certain people on planet Earth that don't want you and I to live forever. But I want I want you to live forever, Carol. Thank you. But so speaking of someone like that, Donald Trump says uh the war in Iran is nearing completion, but the US will hit Iran extremely hard over the next two to three weeks, bombing the country back to the stone ages, which is just a lovely term. Uh a nineteen-minute address to the nation on Wednesday night. Trump tried to justify the war, but didn't new. It was rambling. It was problematic He also downplayed concerns about economic fallout, calling the spike in the gas price a short term increase and saying the Strait of Hormuz would open up naturally after the war. It would end naturally, which really didn't. He didn't say anything about putting troops there or falling through on threats to leave NATO. He talks about it, but then doesn't do it. Talk about the speech, because I thought it really was a big flat z zero, like if it really was flat and nobody was paying attention to it in a weird way, although the markets certainly were. Well I mean the speech is about power. Okay, so CBS News, still in Trump's mind, the Tiffany network, said, Hey, no problem. Our reality show that's been on the air for twenty-five years, Survivor. We're gonna interrupt the programming to bring you this speech. So it's not just gonna be a cable news speech, it's gonna be a network speech. Trump was like, hey, definitely doing that. And so that shows you a little bit of the corruption of the media. I think he has decapitated. The reason why your show is doing so well is that he's decapitated corporate media. He's got them chilled. He's got their lawyers triple checking everything they say. And so Trump's looking at it saying, hey, I'm gonna get attention and uh uh people on me, I'm going with the speech, even if it's a speech about nothing. But to your point, the market said, oh whoa, we're likely gonna have ground troops in there. We're likely gonna have a really tough time. And a result of which it was full risk off and So and and you know, and people say to me, they always say, Oh, Trump cares about the market. Trump cares about the market. Trump doesn't care about the market. Trump cares about manipulating the market. Trump cares about making money from the market for himself and the people around him. He doesn't care about your portfolio or your market. He doesn't even care about the polls anymore because he's not running for re-election. So, guys, get off of those notions of first-term Trump caring about the market and the poll numbers. He has worse poll numbers than Jimmy Carter did at the peak of the oil crisis in 1978, 1979. The poll numbers are terri But but there was something he said in the speech that people should be listening to, and as an American citizen that's still exercising my first amendment right, I denounce it as an American citizen. He said he's gonna bomb Iran into the stone age. Right. Okay, that was the reason for the speech. And let me explain why that was important. That was important because I'm putting the ground troops in. I have a 12-year-old's mentality uh and when I'm moving stuff into the region, guess what guys? I'm not using that as a leverage point. I'm using the stuff. So the 82nd Airborne is going in there. So are the Marines. And but by the way, uh you know, uh General Kane told me that they've booby trapped Karg Island and they've got all these little Vietnam like guerrilla things they're gonna do to our troops, and our troops are really set up for Cold War army to army battle. So I've got to spend the next three weeks blasting the living daylights out of Iran before I can get the troops in position. So I'm going to give you the speech and it's going to be I'm going to bomb them back to the Stone Age speech. So this is gonna be the speech when historians look at the wreckage of Donald Trump. They're gonna say, What were you guys doing when you let somebody that inhumane into the White House? And so in preparation for this, I prepared something for you. Can I just go over this very quickly? Go right ahead. So it is not enough for MAGA the following. We're gonna release the Epstein files. Oh, wait a minute, Trump's in the Epstein files. We're not gonna release the Epstein files. We're gonna bomb people to distract from them. We're gonna bomb a school in Iran with young kids in it, mostly women. We're gonna create alligator alcatras, which is this disgusting penitentiary for immigrants in Florida that has sewage backup and we're gonna laugh about it while we're down there. We're gonna murder people in Minneapolis. We're gonna kidnap children and not even know where we're sending them. We're gonna manipulate the markets, Cara. We're gonna take bribes, particularly a big $400 million jet. And I'm gonna keep the jet after I leave. I'm gonna excori ate our allies that have been our friends for over a century . And I'm going to threaten to attack a NATO country, Greenland. I'm going to shit all over Canada. And then I'm going to come after your first, fourth, fifth, and fohurteent amendment rights in the Constitution. And oh, by the way, every price in America is going to go up as a result of my tariffs. And I'm going to lower uh corporate taxes, big beautiful spending bill. And so if you're making a million dollars or more, you're gonna get a seven thousand dollar benefit. And if you're making fifty thousand dollars or less, I'm taking five hundred dollars of benefits away from you. And this is what I'm going to do and you're going to shut up and you're going to like it, MAGA. You're still going to support me 34%. But let me tell you what's going to kill them. It's the gas prices. So it turns out that the red line for MAGA carouswisher are the case prices . Because they don't want to go into the 250th uh birthday of America grilling hot dogs at eight dollars a gallon in gas. And so his approval ratings are going into the gutter, but everything I just read, including the gutting of the Department of Justice and we could name fifty other things, hollowing out USAID , was acceptable to these attacking lawyers, attacking media. But you said he doesn't care. Like you just said like doesn't care. No, doesn't care. So why do it? Besides self self-promotion, self-aggrandizement, self-interest. He's doing it because he's a miserable SOP. And he's doing it because anybody in his path gets destroyed. You know, some people say nihilist, other people say nihilist , but that is him. He's attacking Macron this morning. Mac ron is in his field division today. Then he'll attack another person. Last yesterday afternoon, he said, you know, J.D. Vance is out there negotiating this thing. If it works, I'll take all the credit. If it doesn't, I'll give him all the blame. That is Donald Trump. Can I ask you, is it is it cognitive issues? I mean you spent it seems like that. Slight cognitive issues, but he's not in full on dementia. He's an eighty year old guy that's a little bit forgetful. He's stooping a little bit. He's lost some posture. Maybe his spine is uh a little bit weakened through old age. Yeah, inflammation, his ankles are swollen, but he has not lost it. And whether people like it or not, he has a lot of energy for an eighty-year-old. He's moving himself around. Okay. And so, but what it is, what it is, is hatred of self and projection of that hatred onto others. And you gotta see it for what it actually is. Okay, the other the other thing is let's say that I'm not saying anybody's an agent of Putin, but let's say I was an agent of Putin. Okay, let's just say hypothetically I happen to be an agent of Putin. And I happen to, oh, I happen to be the president of the United States. So let me do the following: let me go after the NATO allies, let me threaten the pull out of NATO, let me pull aid and materiel from Ukraine, excoriate the Ukra inian president. Let me oh here's a good idea. Let me attack Iran. And at a result of attacking Iran, I'm gonna lift the sanctions on Russian oil and I'm gonna lift the sanctions on their ally, Iran's oil. So now the Russians are gonna make billions and billions of dollars off of this, which will help my buddy Vlad . And uh I don't know. You tell me . I mean I don't know. How does that sound like that? I d I d I don't know what he's doing. I've I felt like it was slightly cognive. But you know, he is having a rough week in courts because courts are pushing back at him everywhere you look. It was like ten of them yesterday. Let's go through some of his losses. A federal judge temporarily halted construction on his beloved White House ballroom, saying it needs Congress's authorization, and Congress doesn't seem to be moving on it. To NPR and PBS was struck down. A judge ruling it violated the First Amendment. Another judge ruled that civil suit against Trump for his actions on January 6th can go forward, and that the presidential immunity does not apply to his speech that day. Uh, talking to supporters before they marched to the Capitol, and one more a judge in Texas blocked a Trump backed deal allowing churches to endorse political candidates. Trump also was at the Supreme Court on Wednesday very briefly listening to arguments out whether his executive order will limit to limit birthright citizenship as constitutional. The justices seemed skeptical, and that's being kind. His latest order restricting mail and voting ahead of the twenty twenty-six election is already facing legal challenges, and he's gonna lose. He's gonna lose badly on that one. So pick a case any case and do I mean he this is what he does. He transgresses with illegal actions and then everyone's picking up the pieces and pushing back legally and he m he does damage in that wake. Um w what is he's gonna lose on every one of these things, it seems like. Penny does it matter or what Well, I see I don't I don't I the only one he cares about is the ballroom from what I can tell. Well, see I actually think there's a bigger thing going on here because remember Trump to a group of right wing intellectuals is an empty vessel. Okay so they they bought call options on him on January 7, 20 21. Low point for Trump , right after the insurrection. Everyone said he was politically dead. And so these right wing lunatics that couldn't get the time of day of a Mitt Romney or George W. Bush, they said, let's team up with Donald Trump. He's probably gonna come back. He still has lots of MAGA popularity. And if he comes back, we can take all of this intellectual nonsense that we believe, and we can run the card table with Trump. So let's talk about one of the cases , which is the argument against birthright citizenship. So remember, everybody's looking at the case like, oh, he's trying to repeal the 14th Amendment, dah dah blah, blah, blah. He's going to lose the case. Oh, ha ha ha. I don't see it that way. This is a maximalist position. Okay, this is a group of people to Trump's right, these intellectual imbeciles that want to expand Article II executive power, and they are pushing for a maximalist position. Okay, so every fight, whether it's win or lose, expands the boundaries of what future presidents will try Even if he loses, like even if he loses, you just put on the table that everything in this constitution is negotiable. You see what I just did? I I I went to the court to intimidate them for my base. Didn't work. My base hates black and brown people, and they hate anchor babies, and I'm sending my base a message that I'm fighting for them. Okay, but imbecile, let me just point out something. If you, let's say they ruled with you, you would create a situation that is ridiculous. Okay, and what is that situation? You would have children born in the country that are actually have no citizens' rights anywhere because a lot of the parents The justices pointed that out. The justices. Okay, so that you would have that. They wouldn't be able to work legally in the country. They wouldn't be entitled to schooling. Uh this is this is a constitu tional intimidation. Why do the ma ximalist thing when the minimalist thing is how you they get things that's how they got to abortion. They slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly ate at it. This is this is gonna never be brought up again for twenty years, fifty years. I got three years to push and shove you guys. Okay. Now, if I can only get control of the elections, what I can then do is install another right winger to further weaken everything in the Constitution. You know, Peter Thiel, these guys. I don't like the Constitution. The Constitution's very, very messy. I don't like these people that I don't agree with. I want the things to go my way or the high way. And so I need the orange wrecking ball. I've got three years left. I got to smash into that constitution as hard as possible. And but and see, and by the way, good news for me , I've already weakened the constitution in the eyes of thirty, forty, fifty percent of the people. And so I gotta keep going on this. And so I think so they're gonna just keep trying to smash until they can't. Smash until they can't. Even if they don't win. But I have a question for you, if you don't mind. Are we living, you and me? Mm-hmm. Are we living in a rogue state? Meaning. Okay. Well, we're let's go over what a rogue state is. No, I know but who's the rogue? Him or us? Uh well I have to say that our government is the rogue. Yes. Parts of it. So are we r are we living in a rogue state? Trevor Burrus We're living in an executive that wants to take more power than ever, which is something that's happens in Silicon Valley. It happens in the which they're trying to apply their Silicon Valley spoke of teal and the others, Silicon Valley uh management style to the government, which has been growing for decades and decades and decades. That's not a new, fresh thing. And some used to accuse Franklin Denal Roosevelt of a similar thing. If you were you know, we I was not alive then, but if you read history. Um so I think there's always been this push for unitary executive power. It just tends to get pushed back every single time because of the Constitution. Let me let me ask a different question then. If if if a smaller nation was indiscriminately striking another nation in direct violation of law and w was applying this type of violent behavior would the Americans, the old school American governments be designating that country a rogue state? Yes, yes, I would think so. But I think it's a rogue group of people within the state because I what what I've been struck by is how enduring some of it is, right? You seeing pushback everywhere. And I know it's I think one of the things that I think about a lot is it's very easy. When you when you run for office , you can be, and I don't like to use this phrase as much, but a bomb thrower, right? You can make trouble everywhere. And when you're governing, you change as a governor, right, to govern things. And you don't you aren't a bomb thrower. So this is a this is a government that just never governs. It bomb throws and breaks and doesn't fix, just like I mean the White House bowlroom is a perfect like it's it's a construction pit. They just destroy . And I don't even know if that bullroom's ever going to get made. It's a kind of a physical manifestation of the mentality of just destroy. And once we've destroyed, we've won the fight already because now we have to the rest of us pick it up. Um but I am struck by the power of the pushback, actually. Aaron Powell Well there there's symbolism in destroying that, by the way. You know, I'm here as a wrecker of everything. And this is the thing that the Americans have to answer for. The American people have to answer for the following. You got a system that got put in place, tremendous checks and balances, tremendous processes. You had statesmen and women abide to the system , even Richard Nixon. And the system made you the most prosperous country and arguably one of the most, if not the most powerful country in the world. And you've now decided that you want to wreck that system. And so so and and and I understand it because you and I grew up with these people. So I understand it. You want to wreck the system because you think the system is unfair to you. There's a few fat cats getting super rich, and you're in a full-on affordability crisis for yourself, and you've gone from economically aspirational to desperational. So Trump is your avatar for anger. System's not working for you. Blow up the system . Yes, yes, yes. Okay. So but but that's gonna re- very bad for people. The people that want to blow up the system, it's gonna really hurt them. Yes, it will be. I mean, I when I I know it sound sounds crazy, but when I was in college, two guys ran for pr the the student body presidency, right? And they had a whole it they basically had a nihilistic thing, like we just wanna party, we wanna spend all the money on ourselves. They uh and they won, right? They won they they they people were kind of sick of the, you know, the student body president types um who wanted to do good government. And there is a moment where I think voters do like chaos, right? But at some point they don't. They absolutely do not. And I think it does I think we'll be picking up from this guy for centuries. Like it's not a century, for decades. Um and I think I I it's not a good thing, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing to have to be battered, right, for a second just to see what holds and what needs to be fixed. And it does allow us to reflect on who we are and what we want to be. I mean it is it's kind of interesting that we're in this 250 years. And it says, okay, what doesn't work? What does work? What do we need to think about? And it does knock everyone into a sense of what matters to them. And I don't think I think it's a pain ful way to learn something, but I think it's a way to learn things. I do. All right, so this is a big question. Okay, and I and I follow you and I love your podcast and I and I read your writings. And so I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna stipulate something and then gonna ask a very big question. All right. So I believe that this is a very young country and we don't have the cultural mores of Italy, France, Germany, you pick the country. Okay. Not saying it's a bad thing, but I'm just trying to explain to you what happens in our country is we go into the shitter every eighty or so years. Yep. We do. Okay. So 1776 into the shitter civil war. We've lost all the institutional memory because 80 years is enough where the generation dies off. And then we go 80 years out from the Civil War, we're in the Great Depression. We go into the shitter again. We have to pull ourselves out of it. And then we build the post-World War II society along with our allies. And we have this moment of great peace, generally great peace and prosperity. But we're eighty years out again Kara and so now we're going into the shitter again which well we've been in the shitter but go ahead and but America has been always in these moments to your point that you just made , reflective , redemptive, and then it renews itself. That's right. However, there's something going on right now, and this is the Kara Swisher quote question. All right. Something going on right now. The prolifer ation of social media and the addiction of the social media, which has created this tribalism and created these stove pipes, these silos . Is this gonna prevent us from coming out of the shit or are we gonna be able to have a postpartisan moment? I think they're finished. These cases that are starting to build up, I think people are it takes, you know, as you know, six cigarettes 20 years everything's Philip Morris then this is Philip Morris again and everybody is like just a fucking second and I think I know it sounds crazy but I have so many people now coming up to me after I wrote burn book, which at the time people are like, oh, you're so mean to them. They're such important innovators. People come to me now and they're like, you weren't mean enough. You weren't mean enough. Like you weren't tough enough on them. And I think people are suddenly taking control of themselves, w whether it's social media. I think young people are. I s my sons I see that's an anecdotal thing, but I see people pushing back across the globe against the tech and I think the fact that the technologists put theirs in with Trump was the final moment of, oh, they are the villains, like the Marvel villains. And I think I I really do think there's a very healthy pushback happening. And I don't think I I I I feel positive for the first time that people understand what I it's very optimistic. Look, I'm I hope so. It's very optimistic. I'm going to say something that does not reflect well on me or Deirdre. I let the kids have the iPad , and it was ruining their personalities. And I let them have it for too long. I've taken the iPad away from them and the phones and all that other stuff. I've got my children back. They have been dezombified by that process. Okay. Yep. So a shout out to Jonathan Hayes. Is that how you say his name? Jonathan Hayde. And a shout out to Caris Swisher. A shout out to Caris Swisher for putting out the Surgeon General's warning label before the Sotters in General did that these stupid products give your kids' brains lung cancer. I know it's a mixed metaphor, but you get my point. In this series, I did the cares which one slip driver is about chat the danger of chat bots with kids. You know, I've been talking to the parents and and doing interviews with them. I think the the the the most dangerous thing right now is relationships with AI bots and the sycophantic relationships. And I'll tell you, I'll do a plot a plot spoiler. This entire series, guess what the number one indicator of longevity is? You'll know. Money, right? Or no? Money. Money, of course. Yes, don't be poor. But what's the actual number one? Genetics? No. Not sleep, not diet, not exercise. Stress. Friends and family. Friends and family. That makes sense. That makes sense. Community? Not just people you know. But walking to a coffee shop and saying, Hey, how's your day going? I do that now all the time. People, you know, they look down and you go, Hey, how's your day going? They go like this. Like you can see them go, Oh, I I'm okay. And I go, Are you sure? Is everything good? It's it's amazing. If you talk to people you don't know and you have friends and family around you, you live longer, you're happier, you're healthier, it's less costly. It's and and it's and it's not it's not correlation, it's causation. It's absol and and the more time you spend with bots and online, the sicker you're gonna be. Kara, I'm I'm loving you more every every day. Can I put out a public social message to billionaire Dick Wheats? Can I just have a public social message? Hey, hey, hey, billionaire dickweeds, are you out there? Listen to me, okay? No more asymmetrical relationships, okay? If you don't call me, guess what? I'm not fucking calling you. You're not that important. Okay. You have to take a crap every day. You have to go to the bathroom. That's right. You're really not that important. So you know what? I want to live a long time. So I'm going to have symmetrical relationships and bilateral relationships with people. If you think you're too fucking important to call me back, you're never getting another call from. Okay. All right. Let's go to the next one. Speaking of this, we're going to Christine because I brought props. Not yet, not yet. Not yet. Let's go on a quick break and we come back. SpaceX officially files for an IPO . There's basically been one guy in Republican politics who's argued for a regime change in Iran for years, and for America to take a proactive military role in making it happen. Ambassador John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor. Uh no coordination, no effort to uh see what they would do, no no effort to support them to provide resources, money, arms if that's what they wanted, telecommunications, just no coordination at all. And uh they don't seem prepared for it. How Trump lost the Republican Party's biggest arad war hawk. Today explain every weekday and on Saturdays too . Support for the show comes from back market. Listen, there's a lot of ads out there telling you to buy new products. I've actually found that buying a new car makes no sense. I've owned cars my whole life, raised in California, and I've bought a bunch of new cars and a bunch of used cars, and I think that quite frankly used is the way to go. And it's the same with tech products, but back market is giving you the option to find sustainable tech products at a much more affordable rate. Backmarket offers a range of high quality tech inspected and refurbished by profession als. It's all they do. They have phones, computers, gaming consoles, vacuum cleaners, and even iPods. All of the tech at Back Market has been inspected and restored by professionals to ensure it is in perfect working condition. They offer 30-day returns and a one-year warranty. And not only is back market refurbished tech more affordable than buying new, it's also more sustainable. Back market is on a mission to reduce the environmental toll that FastTech has on our planet as refurbished tech has proven to use less raw materials, leave behind less waste, and create fewer carbon emissions than new tech. They say e-waste is the fastest growing waste stream in the world, and it's an issue that back market wants to actively address through initiatives including their Earth Month campaign. Shopnow at backmarket.com . And I'm Adam Grant. And we're here to invite you to the Curiosity Shop. A podcast that's a place for listening, wondering, thinking, feeling, and questioning. It's gonna be fun. We rarely agree. But we almost never disagree, and we're always learning. That's true. You can subscribe to the Curiosity Shop on YouTube or follow in your favorite podcast app to automatically receive new episodes every Thursday. Anthony, we're back with more news. SpaceX has confidentially filed I don't confidentially, everyone knows about it, filed for an IPO. The filing puts the company in track for a June listing ahead of other upcoming massive IPOs from OpenAI and Anthropic. There's a lot of them coming this year. Uh SpaceX will reportedly seek a valuation of one point seven five trillion. It's not making that much money. Companies reportedly allocate as much as thirty percent of the offerings to small investors. That's nice. Uh it's really I'm gonna go through a whole bunch of market things, but that's it's the they I think it's fifteen billion dollars in revenue and the the numbers are really crazy for this. It's highly overvalued at the same time. People will probably run into it. Um a couple things. Oracle stock has been fluctuating after laying off thousands of employees, Microsoft dropped almost a quarter of its value in the first three months of the year. Worst quarter, OpenAI is beginning to let individual investors access the stock months before its planned IPO. Lots of companies gotten hit. Palantir's gotten hit. It's really kind of an up and down thing. Talk a little bit about the SpaceX IPO and and w where the markets are from your perspective. And of and of course, if you'd like Bitcoin, tell us where what's happening there since you're Mr. Bitcoin. With SpaceX. I mean, listen, the cult of personality around Elon Musk is such where he gets an excessive exogenous premium for his companies. They are off of the scale of the company. Even if they're suffering like Tesla. Even if they're suffering like Tesla, they get enormous metric al valuation numbers. Okay. You're talking about a 1$.65 trillion $675 trillion valuation. He's gonna raise apparently $75 billion . So that would crush the Saudi Arampo IPO record okay, and it's two to three times larger than any IPO ever . Okay, and he does have a good product with Starlink. We have to we have to tell people , but we don't know the revenue splits yet between Starlink, the launching business, the defense business. We don't know the breakout of the profitability. Okay, and we also don't know the cap ex burn because it it would feel like the Starship stuff is a blast furnace, if you will, a blast furnace of uh ex. Okay. Now having said that, I want to disclose this to people. I do own SpaceX. I have participated in one of the private rounds of SpaceX. Why did you do that? Because you thought they were they were far and away the biggest provider? Aaron Powell I I I did that because I see this Starlink being worth a fortune for him and I see this idea and I'm not saying it'll happen and this is why it's venture capital in my portfolio, but I see the notion that creating interstellar or orbital data centers, where you're getting the energy from the sun and not from the electricity grid, and you're beaming it back down to Earth using satellite technology. I think that's near near science fiction. I think that can become science fact . And I think he's well positioned to do it. I also think that he's merged Grok into this. And I think Grok on its own, which I again, full disclosure, I was an investor in XAI. I mean, I think you know this. Antonio Gracias and I worked together at at Goldman. Uh obviously I would have been smarter to invest earlier, but he's been helpful in getting me access to these investments. And for me , in my venture portfolio, that side of my portfolio, I think this guy has done a very good job of executing. And the valuations may be high, but what I've learned in life, and you and I are four I'm forty years as an investor. Uh I missed out on a few things early, like Amazon, because I was reading Warren Buffett's annual reports and the valuation for Amazon was too high, but ultimately the guys that bought Amazon were right. I missed it. Uh, and it was a big miss for me. You know, a ten thousand dollar investment in Amazon on the May 15th, 1997 IPO is worth almost $20 million today. Right. And so I want to have a few things that we're going to be touch and go. There was a point where Amazon is . We could be five years from now, if you're kind enough to invite me back on, we could be saying that was a big miss for SpaceX. That was a big miss. But again, what I would tell investors is you got to have a little bit of your portfolio in the dream, because it is America, and we have to believe in that dream. Now, I have most of my portfolio in stocks and bonds, and I have most of my portfolio in the Garden Variety S<unk>P 500, some Berkshire Hathaway, et cetera. But I do I do own this stuff. Would you would you buy OpenAI in comparatively? Now they're in a much more competitive position now? Yeah. With anthropic and others. Or or would you buy anthropic? So I own both. Mm-hmm. And uh, you know, I had this uh nightmare situation with Sam Bankman Fried, which I've well documented and talked about. But one of the things he did for me. He bought Anthropic. He bought and he told me to buy anthropic. And I bought anthropic very early. And let me tell you how this works in life. Anthropic is up 1 40 to one from where I bought it in terms of his current private market valuation. So anthrop ic is a larger percentage of my net worth than certain legacy assets that I have, Carol. And so this is another reason why I always tell people you it's okay. And by the way, you don't have time in the day for all my zeros and all my stupid decisions and stuff, you know. I had Travis Kalanek, is that how you say I had him in my office, fifty million dollar valuation for Uber. I said, wait a minute, an unknown guy in an unknown black car is gonna drive my sixteen year old daughter around Manhattan? Get out of my office. Get out of it. Get out of it. Yeah, and I and I missed it. Right? So I'm I can give you all my losses as well . Right. But but but you got to me, I believe that you have to have some of these in so open AI has its challenges. Obviously he's fighting it out with Elon and all the different things that we could describe . But I think he's got lots of market share and I think he's gonna grow his market share. And and by the way, I think Claude is gonna w anthrop is gonna win this case against the government. Trump's gonna lose that case too. Right. So when you look around, you're like, look, take these risks. And as long as it's like it's not a a situation where it's not a real business, right? And in this case, um Starlink is a real business. The rocket business is a real business. It's a much smaller business than ever than the valuation by far. But especially when you you you zero out against a Facebook. Like it's it's worth more than Facebook and Facebook has a talk about a real, real business. That's like a significant and ongoing business. And the threats Scott feels like there's a real moat that they have. I never think there's any moats ever, especially when you look at Tesla, what how quickly. When a couple of years ago I was like Tesla's going to get killed by China and competitors. And everyone's like, no, Tesla's the winner. I'm like, there's no way they're keeping a 70% market share. It's not happening. And of course, it's gone down and down. And he lost interest in it. And instead of putting out really innovative cars, he put out the Cybertruck, right? And so you s when once I saw the Cybertruck, I'm like, that this thing is watch out below. But his particular, as you said, uh , you know, he m has a lot of misses, but he has a lot of wins, and so you kinda have to go with him in that regard in this particular thing. Because this is something we have to accept, and that's called memeification. And so we have to accept that there's a prolific number of beeswarming retail investors, Wall Street bat-like invest ors, that are with Elon. And that there's a personality cult around Elon that is affecting valuation. And by the way, they are way sturdier than any of my short selling buddies thought. Yes. If and they've knocked out a lot of my short selling buddies. So I would so I would just tell people, listen, I'm a r I'm a market realist. Okay. I'm not a market purist. Okay. I yes, I've read Buffett and Buffett is the pap al uh edict giver of value. You know, we're going to get the Bitcoin, but Buffett thinks Bitcoin's rap poison or rap poison squared and all this other stuff. But the the point I'm making is that I'm a market realist, not a market idealist. And this man, Elon Musk, has a memeification in bed in him. It may not last forever, but there's a memeication inbed in there. And that I am not too proud or too I think. Not to take advantage of it. You know, it's interesting. I uh one time I called Mark Joe Hath, because he had never made an internet investment. This was a decade ago or more. More than that. It was more than that. And I called up to ask him. I wanted to, I was doing a I was the Wall Street Journal, so it was a long time ago. And I I call up and I said I'd like, you know, I thought I was going to get a PR person and uh the phone rings through and it's him. And I was like, oh, hi. Hi there, Warren Buffett. And he's like, I just don't believe in this internet thing. And I was like, I think you're wrong. I can't believe I'm giving you advice, sir. Um, but he was very much against internet investments. And he he admitted he was wrong about it much later, like that he was wrong about all of them. And I and there is some value in understanding it's going to take a while for people to catch up to Musk in this area. But as I always say, they will catch up because it's a great market, right? As you say, if we have these data centers in space, if you think he's gonna be the only one running the show, you're absolutely wrong. People will r greedy people will rush into the business, whether it's Amazon with Kuiper or whatever. Um it's it's gonna be a lot of people , but it'll take his attention, which he f it fell away from because I think he he got red pilled in many ways. Um it'll i i if if his attention wanes, it's in trouble . If it doesn't, it's hard to compete with him and his meme vacation as you talk about. I think you're right. Well again, a portfolio approach. I own a lot of them and and some of them will work, some of them won't. But my lesson from 30 years ago is I wasn't bold enough. Yeah. And and again, I'm talking about five percent, seven percent of the capital. Yeah, that's all. Right. What l very briefly Bitcoin. Where where's it at today? Uh well bitcoin big big Bitcoin is in a significant bear market. Uh bitcoin uh Bitcoin got hurt by Trump. Uh I know the Trump lovers and the Trump crypto lovers don't like me saying this, but I said when those meme coins came out, Trump and Melania mean coins, he's gonna crush us, he's gonna hurt us because he hurts everything that he touches. And so what ended up happening is the regulation that should have been passed uh didn't get passed because of the hatred of Tr So it's sixty six thousand almost . But it's been pretty sturdy during the Iranian war. It has. Uh and I I But it hasn't rushed upwards, which one would think it's but I would say to Bitcoin enthusiasts, this is a typical four year cycle, having cycle situation. This point in the cycle, Bitcoin loses roughly half of its value. It did. I'll make a prediction on your show. Sure. I've been humbled by markets. Probably could be wrong. I think the sixty thousand dollar bottom is in for Bitcoin. And I think that Bitcoin starts to rally in the fourth quarter, which would be consistent with the four-year cycle of Bitcoin. So even though you've got more buyers in Bitcoin, you were offset by whale selling in the last 12 months. And guess what? You got the typical four year cycle of Bitcoin. And since I'm a long term holder, I'm not sure I mean, you're right. Trump came in and made a mess of it by by all the shit coins, all the the all scams. And so it it linked to Bitcoin quite and he sucked so much money political donations into his coffers from guys that thought Trump was gonna help him. He doesn't help people. So this is the trough. We are in the trough of Bitcoin. Alright, I'm gonna keep that prediction. We'll find out. Um thony, we're going to quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about those photos of Christy Gnome's husband. In 1984, Apple launched maybe the most consequential computer ever. It was not a good computer particularly there was actually a lot wrong with it but the Macintosh had all of the right ideas about what computers would become and it kind of changed everything. This week on Version History, our chat show about the best and worst and most interesting products in tech history were telling the story of the Macintosh and why, again, despite not being very good, it managed to change everything anyway. That's version history on YouTube and wherever you get podcasts. Anthony, we're back and Scott is going to be very sad. He's missing this one. Cited by the allegations that her husband is it Brian's activities in online fetish communities earlier this week. The Daily Mail published an investigation into Noam's husband, which included a photo of him wearing pink hot pants and fake breasts with nipples. Uh the story also alleges he spent at least twenty five thousand dollars communicating with women in the bimbofication scene. I didn't know about this, but uh fascinating, which fetishes people with surgical enhancements, Republicans are a party of family values, these this couple was particularly perform ative. I I don't know what to say here. I I just don't know what to do . I'm in hot water with my mother in law because last night when I came home I said, Ma, were you in one of those chat rooms? She got pissed Oh no. That's bad, right? Well look at me. Because I know Scott Galloway isn't here, but I brought props. What is that? Is that them? Those are boobies. They're actually dodgeballs that my kids play with. Do you want me to send you them? No, I don't do please do. No, I do not do not dare don't you dare put them on. Okay. I'm not putting them on because I don't want to make fun of somebody, but I'm just saying I did bring it up. Let me say. Let me say what I think. I feel sad for this guy because I think he has um I I um listen, I'm from San Francisco. If you want to marry a goat, I'm pretty okay with it. Not great with it, but that's okay. Um I think it's it's he obviously has an interest and I don't I find fetishes somewhat interesting and I think you should express yourself and it's not hurting anybody, right? Is it really hurting anybody that he likes this? No. He seems he se th my part is he seems very sad about liking it, right? And that, you know, some of these actually some of the women he was he hired are actually quite wise. I have to say some of these sex workers are like, well, he really liked it and he seemed sad and I was trying to make him have fun because he seemed stressed. And they're the most reasonable people in this entire affair. Um so I felt bad for him that he had this furtive life and he couldn't express himself. That's one. I also think he's a huge hypocrite in that he all this performative religious stuff when he's has a life that's more interesting and more unusual. And he should have that life without feeling shamed, shame himself. In her case, I do think uh she did know about it. I suspect she did. I don't think it's any excuse for her behavior with uh Cory Lewandowski. I don't I think I part of I put this stuff up saying I felt sad for this guy. And everyone's like, don't you know that Cory Lewandowski leaked this to get the focus off of their and their and what we should be foc onusing not this poor guy, which is sad, but uh for him, I wish he enjoyed himself more, as I said. Um, but on their on their grift, right? Their enormous grift and what happened there and the investigations into the two of them and their behaviors in there. And by extension, Donald Trump should continue and focus in on those two. Hopefully we'll have to come back from that as well. But we will here's here's three quick things I would say. Number one, you're coming down from heaven and you're on the assembly line and there are some fetishes like feet fetishes or eyelash fetishes. I don't know the fetishes are, but then the supervisor stops the assembly line and brings out the inflatable boobies and said, Hey, we're sending you to Earth with these. Okay. I mean, that was a rough one. Okay. So I feel bad for the guy because I think you're born with that, maybe. Number two , okay, MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff. And you know that my buddy Don Lennon tells me that the grinder stuff lights up at all these Christian conservative things, okay? We spot Lindsey Graham with the magic wand down in Walt Disney World. Yes, just so people don't know, he was Disney World with a little mermaid bubble wand in one photo and waiting in line for Space Mountain in another. He said he was meeting with Trump and Steve Whitcoff and then went to Orlando to meet friends just for a quick you never go quickly to Disneyland. So to me, I'm gonna tell you that MAGA men are repressing a lot of stuff and then they're taking it out on the rest of us, right? Like if you read The Velvet Rage by Alan Downs, okay, guys, relax, whatever it is, whatever your orientation is, let it go. Nobody cares. Okay, we're in a totally different environment. Let it go. Yeah, exactly. I think these guys are Can't hold it back anymore. You know this, Cara. Born in the forties. Born in the forties and fifties, and with all of that repression, okay, and who the hell knows what Donald Trump's father did to him as a kid. And the guy's a repressed, sad guy. Okay, he's decorating the Oval Office like Liberace . He wants the ballroom. He took over the Kennedy Performing Arts Center. He wants to take his pain out on us. Calm down, let it all go. Okay. And I feel bad for this guy, but I'm telling you, this type of repression for some reason has found its way into our politics. And then the last point, because I had three. That's a serious point. The last point. Look at me. I thought you were just gonna make booby jokes, but go ahead. Last point. Look at me. Look at me. Look at me too. I'm a normal fucking guy. I can't believe. I thought I was a looney tune. I'm in the bell curve of normal male nuttiness. I know. Let me ask you. I thought I was nuts until I met You're totally boring compared to most of these people. She has no political prospects now, correct? Or sh will she go the I didn't know I'm a victim of the thing they took the they took the couple hundred million dollars off the ad thing. So what did they do? They put the two hundred million dollars into the ad thing. They hired a consultant, the consultant skimmed like they do with these political action committees. Let me let me tell people from pivot , guys, never put any money in a political action committee. Because what they do is the cronies at the top, they skim all the money and they charge a 15, 20, 30% advertising consulting fee, and they're laughing at you. They're laughing at you. Okay. So what Gnome and Corey did was took the money, okay, and they diverted it, and they're gonna go live somewhere. God bless Well they they'll they'll be they will have a problem. They'll have legal problems forever, I would assume. The two she has no presidential prospects, correct? Correct because I know that was she's got no presidential prospects, but she's also come on. These are the people that we want running the country. Come on. No, okay. I mean you're shooting at, you're shooting at people, you're you're kid napping kids with ice and you're proud of it and you're riding around on your horse. You know, I did see one great meme though. You mind if I share it? You know, please, Marry Kill. Yeah. So we had to marry the guy with the big boobies. We're fucking Corey and we're killing the dog. I thought that was really funny, okay? But anyway. That's a good one. That's good. It's interesting though, it's it it's really interesting. Someone a company that I didn't think was going to do it. I'm friends with Harvey Levin from TMZ. But he's been publishing photos after asking people to submit pictures of lawmakers on vacation during the sh DHS shutdown. And I'll note it's a bipartisan shaming targeting Democrats and Republicans alike. It's part of a lar ger push by TMZ, which has amped up its political coverage, showing what it calls the intersection of politics and pop culture. I kind of like that they're doing this. So you can s let us see you what you're doing versus how you're talking, right? So you're exposing the hypocrisy, you know. Yeah exactly. Bypassing the entire TSA at the uh Reagan Airport I think he was in, or maybe Dallas . And guy, you're a hippo, you know, you're hypocrite. You know, fix, fix the country. You know, there's a 14% approval rating for the Congress. It's just slightly above Kim El Jung. Okay. But you know what? 95% of these guys get re-elected because of gerrymandering and citizens united. They pick the voters. That's the only thing they're able to do. Are we in a real democracy, Cara , where the politicians pick the voters. I thought the voters were supposed to pick the politicians, and they get unlimited money from the corporates. And so they can stay in power. It'd be like you and I opening up a restaurant, our food sucks. We got one star Yelp ratings, but we can't ever get fired. Right. Okay. It's a it's a it's appalling. Yeah, it is. And they I think they're paying the price for it though. I love that these pictures are there. I think people should do more of this exposure. Like here's how they live, here's how they behave. I did like when Delta said we're not going to let them jump the line if they're on Delta. You know, we're not going to let them have special things. And now I think things are calming down at airports apparently TSA's sort of started to organize it a little better, but it's still the fact that they can't pass a basic funding bill um is really quite something, you know, without making everything partisan. All right, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions . Great news: the Federal EV rebate is back. Eligible customers get up to $5,000 with the federal EVAP rebate on Select 2027 Okay, Anthony, let's hear a prediction. All right. So listen, you know, listen, first of all, happy Easter and happy Passover to you and your family. Thank you. And I'm gonna I'm gonna make three predictions. Uh uh So the first prediction, Pam Bondi is long gone. Okay. U Zheldan will replace her. This is Lee Zeldon. They have gutted the Department of Justice and it's become the Trump family law firm. And so that's actually good for these Supreme Court decisions because they got nobody there to argue these stupid cases, but it's just very bad for the country. Number two, and I think this is also uh one that I don't like, is that we're going to have ground troops in Iran. And again, the bomb the people back to the stone age was to degrade them in such a way where we can put the ground troops in. And then my last prediction is that the Chinese are going to be involved in a resolution of this. And so what Trump is going to do, and this is the reason why he delayed the meeting with She, he's going to get the people at the Carg Island, he's going to get him in the straight, he's going to shut off the oil. He's going to pick up the phone and call Xi and say, listen, you're getting 40, fifty percent of your oil out of here, and this is a satellite state of yours. You gotta secularize that state, and you gotta let me and the UN or whoever go in there and take the uranium out of there. And when we're doing that, uh when we're done doing that , I'm gonna open the oil spigot again and you can have the oil. I understand that you gotta run your economy and I wanna be a cooperative economic competitor of yours, and I do need those rare earth miner minerals. But that third prediction is is where we're going on the chessboard, because there are some smart people in the Pentagon. And now that they're in this thing, now that they're here, why not take advantage of it. But that could cause a lot of deaths, American deaths, which could be a lot. You're an object in Trump's field of vision. You're not a person. So he doesn't take advantage of this the situation. Let me ask you, what do you think of Lee Zeldon? Well Lee I know a long time. You know, Lee Lee was uh District One out here on Long Island. Yeah, he was the House of Representatives guy out here. He's a conservative guy. He ran for governor here. Formerly reasonable as I recall. And came . That's where I was going. So Lee is in that group of people that went into the MAGA chamber and came out with the red hat and the long tie and the cuckoo lala . But he was not that way. But now he is. And so we'll have to see him. Yeah, we'll have to see how many pirouettes he's willing to do for Donald Trump to destroy his reputation too, because that's what we do. You go in, I want the power, I want the significance. Trump moves the goalposts on you . Hey, Cara , prices are going down, no forever wars. We're ending our involvement in the Middle East. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay, well now are you guys loyal to me? Yes, you're loyal to me. Now we're gonna do the opposite of that. Right. We're moving the goalposts. You gotta stay loyal to me. And so that's Lee Zeldon. He's the type of kid. He's gonna look back on this because I know how he grew up, you know. Uh uh So is there a redemption? There are a lot of Republicans. I just interviewed Tom Tillis. He's sort of run out of fox. There's a lot of people that to me, even Marjorie Taylor Green, do you see a pushback anywhere? And and what are the implications of that? Are you seeing and I'm not talking about like the Jeb Bush Republican. But it'll be fifty years from now. And the people are going to look back and say, what the hell happened? And John Thune is the poster boy for cowardice. Okay, because he could have called Schumer and he could have said, Hey, we're shutting this down. Okay, we are Article I of the Constitution for a reason, and we're shutting this down. You and I are going to the White House today, and we're going to tell this asshole that he's the most un-American president that's ever lived, and we're going to go in a different direction or we're gonna blow him out of the seat. But he didn't do that because he's got no cayons and he wants personal power over the serving of the public and he wants to bypass the security line . Okay? And guy, you used to be a good guy. I knew you a long time. When I was on the Rombie campaign, you were a good guy, but you are now a loser. So what happens? Very brief, what happens to these? Because something's gonna happen after November. They've lost in Palm Beach, they've lost in Kansas, they've lost they're losing everywhere. They'll lose the midterms on the House, they won't lose the Senate. Maybe Trump Trump will go maybe they'll lose the Senate, but they won't lose it enough for Trump to get impeached because they need two thirds vote. Trump will strong arm everybody. The last two years will be about grifting and making money and market manipulation because they tell them people they want to be the richest family after they leave. And on the nineteenth of January, he will pardon himself and his family members and the people that are close to him. And it'll drop that in the lap of the Supreme Court and the Congress as whether or not a president can pardon themselves . And he will leave an unbuilt ballroom and a complete catastrophic shitstorm for whoever the cleanup crew is gonna be. And uh and by the way, as people have said, in a democracy, you sometimes get the people that you deserve. And we'll have to look at ourselves and say, how did we let that happen? And this is the point of the book that I'm writing, which you've been nice enough to read for me, is that we let this happen through bad decision making, but we left out the people, Cara, that you and I grew up with who once felt unbelievable about the American dream and unbelievable . My father was making money by the hour. He was a union guy. But he was like, you know what? My kids are gonna live the American dream. Let's get to work. Now those people are like, hey man, I can't get a job. And by the way, my kids are not gonna get a job. Fuck you people. Burn it down. And we've got to go. You're talking about burn book. How about burn the whole thing? Burn the social contract. So it's burnt. So now. So now we gotta get some people in there that are postpartisan, transformational leaders, that gonna run a restate a vision for the country. Like I said, we go through this every 83 years. We're in our two hundred and fiftyth year anniversary. Here are the things that we need to do to redeem ourselves. We have to clean up these certain things that have happened. We have to take big business, big pharma, big zillionaires out of the political equation. We created a separate but equal democracy with Citizens United. That's the Plessy versus Ferguson case of our democracy. Brown Board of Education overturned that. We're 16 years out from Citizens United, we have to overturn it. And we got to put these rich people back in a box where they belong where one vote equals one vote. All right, I'm gonna ask one final question. Who are pick two people who would be on each side? Two people you, are like, those people could do that. I mean, listen, you know, you know, here here's the thing, okay, like your roommate, Scott Galloway, okay, he's the type of guy that could actually pull it off. Honestly, I think he could pull it off. Cuban while you laugh. You don't pull it off? I think he could. Not Scott, but Cuban, yes. Okay. Okay. All right. Cuban. I mean, somebody like that could probably pull it off. But then they have to do something that is ridiculously Lincoln-esque in terms of its heroism. You gotta piss every single person off in power to reframe the argument. Okay, Teddy Roosevelt got the robber barons in place and said, hey MFs, we're gonna break up your trusts, we're gonna knock out your monopolies. I gotta these poor people, the tenements are coming down on them and they're going to come after you with a pitchfork and a torch. You want them to set fire to your mansion? Knock it off. Knock it off. So it requires somebody that doesn't care about the power structure. And that's why I can't name somebody. Because everybody that's in the power cares about the power structure. I don't give a shit about the power structure. It has to be you and me. That's what's going to happen. I'd be like, Oh no way. Those things don't work. Don't work. Don't work, but the sauna president, the sauna present. Just being a sauna naked, I'll do from there. Anyway, Anthony, as always, fantastic. Thank you for inviting me back and tell Scott I miss him and wish him a happy Easter. I will, the listeners, we want to hear from you. Let us know what you think of Anthony. Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nym ag.com slash pivot, submit a question for the show, or call 855-51 Pivot. This is a big week for both of us. We got nominated for Webby Awards. Pivot and On with Kara Swisher got nominated, and your limited series podcast with Scott Lost Boys also got nominated. Uh we want your vote because we're not too proud to beg. Um go to the link in the episode description to vote for us. I'm very pleased for you. Uh, and congratulations. And I I will see you next week. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening and pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week Today's show was produced by Lara Nayman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Andredrat engineered this episode. Manolo Moreno edited the video. Nishot Kerwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure to follow Pivot and anything Anthony does on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Box Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at NYMag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Thank you, Anthony. Great to be on with you. Thank you. Happy Easter again.