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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm c I'm Scott Galloway. Sorry. How is your tour going? I've gotten reports from the Castro about you. You are in my neighborhood. Yes, I was. And what is one of the most beautiful new theaters? Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's not new. It's really old, and they just renovated it. Renovated, excuse me. Yeah. Recently renovated. It's great. It was sold out . Um one of my a couple of my role models were there. David Auker, who is whose course I teach now, who's 88 in uh Changed My Life, teach brand strategy at Haas, the Chancellor of Berkeley, who was there, who let me in with a 2.27 GPA, my sister, my niece, my nephew , so it was a nice night, as I often do, and talking about the AIDS crisis in the nineties nineties I started crying. Um the castro theater, uh the straight white man with erectile dysfunction crying and the chancellor of Berkeley. Oh and the marching band. The marching band. He loves Pivot and he la he said it was really fun and it was really good. I'm sad. Louie could not go. My son lives a block, two blocks away, essentially. And uh he was working. He he's a he's a he's a chef. Uh and so he had the night uh the evening dinner shift. So he's sad. He was sad. Um, but he wished you well . So how's it going? Where are you going next? What's your next thing? Well, I'm back. I only went up for the show. I'm back in LA , and uh it's my favorite place to visit in the world. I describe LA as the world's most successful failed nation state. It's kind of I think of it as peak capitalism here. There's more billionaires in LA than anywhere else but New York, but meanwhile 75,000 homeless. Yeah. And it feels like I was it's a town built on delusion, but delusion and creativity can sometimes create a lot of shareholder value. Yeah. Yeah. And I just I absolutely love Los Angeles. I think it's uh y you know what it's turning into, Kara? What what is it turning? It's turning into San Francis co and then now everyone should post Los Angeles. They do. That's the that's the city. Because San Francisco looks good and it's thriving in the city. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't hurt that about what is it, about a hundred and fifty billion dollars is about to become liquid on four trillion in liquid currency. Right, yeah. Yeah. Yep. By the way in San Francisco, rents last month, one month, one bedroom rents up twenty four percent. Everyone's spending their money before they have it. Pending luxury home sales nationally are up four percent. In San Francisco, they're up forty-eight percent. Oh, I know. I've had I in the in back in the first dot-com thing, I had people knocking on my door to buy my house and I have people knocking on my board to buy my house again. It's that it's that and I'm like, no. But it's really um it it's interesting because lesser priced houses, which are not lesser priced, they're in the million, two million range, uh aren't selling as well. But the really above three to f se ven A re really going crazy. It's a it's a crazy market, but I'm glad Daniels I mean it has been on the rebound for a while, but yes, Sa Los Angeles is in that s that same we hate ourselves spiral, hence Spencer Pratt. But um but it's it Los Angeles is a wonderful city at the same time. You know, it's just you know, it's sort of sort of west side white people that get all mad about whatever, and some of them not even in Well th I I will say and you you always sound like a Karen, but it feels like I used to say it's a LA is a string of suburbs connected by by freeways. Now I would say it's a string of bubbles. I mean the this the the right the quote unquote right parts of LA are you for it. They're magical. And you venture outside those bubbles and you see a little too much of the real world. Which is good for people. But the homeless issue really is um staggering here. And relative to the amount of money I they spend. I I I can y you really feel it's really interesting here. It feels like the Ma yor Race here, if it were a movie, it'd be Sophie's Ciceho person,ally, that's how I would describe it. Oh, dear. Okay. But you it's a it is pretty a pretty decent facsimile of the presidential race in twenty-four. You have w who I would describe as someone who's perceived as incompetent and not that compelling which has created room for rage, cosplaying a political strategy in a reality store. I mean, this literally is Trump Harris over again right now. Yeah. And you speak to people in LA, I'm not exaggerating. Reasonable reasonable people who you wouldn't think would be supporting a reality star. And they have just had it and they just want change and chaos and they don't care. Yeah, I I I understand that. But it is a type of person by the way, first of all. I would not say everybody is like that. It's shocking how many people are just they don't even want to have a conversation. They're just angry. I'm just saying given the comparison, we didn't re-elect the reality star, we erected we elected Daniel Lurk. Technocrat. They should try to find like that's the thing. I know that, but it's ridiculous that this is like it doesn't mean , you know, because something's bad you should do something absolutely fucking ridiculous and disastrous for the city. But you know, they'll go through it. If they d like this guy, they get what they get. That's what and it's probably a lot of corruption, a lot of incompetence , a lot of just a mess and abuse of people. Like they're gonna hire weight they're gonna go back because the old LA , you know, with the LA police department and, you know, that that era of real brutality is really it was real. And so it's just uh it's a wonderful city and it should be doing a lot better. And the homeless problem is significant. A lot of it have to do with the weather. A lot of it has to do with a lot of things. It's not just that. It's that this is a place where people naturally are attracted to. And so all kinds of people. And so it's a really it's um uh anyway. So you're are you appearing in Los Angeles tonight? Is that correct? Oh yeah. We have Ted Surround us as our guest tonight. Great, great. We've got about thirty friends from UCLA coming. Good. Are you sold out in Los Angeles or are you doing UCLA? No, we're about I think we're about ninety percent. We're sold out in San Francisco. Right. In New York, about ninety percent in uh LA. It's a big theater. Also I think LA just people do last minute and there's so many distractions here. Yeah. Yeah. Are you in the same theater, which we did sell out for Pivot? What was um no, I think we're in the Wiltern. Is that right? Does that sound familiar? And then and then I go to Vancouver Oh that'll be fun. You love Miami. Yeah, I do. Anyway, we'll be able to do Miami. Well, we've got a lot of I'm congratulations on your tour and congratulations to Ed Elson too. It's it's a really nice these tours are really fun. I'm excited for ours in the fall. We have one of the fall, so get ready. Rest up. There we go. You'll have August off so you can rest and everything else. So um uh first off I have to ask you by the way, in you're doing a lot of stuff, but did you watch the enhanced games last weekend? I didn't although I gotta be honest, I'm sorta here for it. I think it's I think it's kinda I mean I I kinda had this idea that just take no holds barred and let freak shows show up. Uh people are doing this to themselves anyways. But I did not I did not watch it. And encourages them to try to break world records. Events included swimming, track, and field, weightlifting, and strong men. The experiment calls itself a global movement that unites humanity, of course, is a publicly traded company. Investors include Donald Trump and Jr. and Peter Thiel. There's also a German executive I've met many times who's really into it. Um, there were no things broken except by someone wearing an a uh the swimsuit that was barred, this special swimsuit. Uh I I don't know. The stock has gone down. I'm curious, if if there was a fight where both of us were enhanced, who do you think would win? You or I? Well you know the answer there. Me. Yeah, 100%. I've never been in a fight. Yeah, I'm not I'm not a mountain person You've never been in a fight. Never have I, I think. Let me think. That might not be true. No, I haven't. No, I haven't. Yeah. And I'm you know, I'm uh you know, I I was beaten up and abused, ex-wife, but um no, I was never never been in a never been in a fight. I think that I talk a lot about this that I think that one of the cores to I never But I think one of the core's core principles of for men as they get older is just quite frankly is emotional regulation. You know, are you willing to sit in discomfort and uh do you have control over your your physical and mental well being? Well it's an impulse to punch, right? It's an impulse to punch. And men have it much more I have well, let me think. S ol's probably the most aggressive license. Trevor Burrus So there's no arguing that men are more violent, but that doesn't mean women don't engage in violence. Domestic violence rates in LGBTQ couples is about 25 percent according to the NASA Institute for Health. And according to the CDC, anywhere from 17 to 40 percent of men are victims of intimate partner violence, depending depending on the research methodology. There's discrepan cy between whether it was a phone survey or a web survey . And then furthermore, there's only about three shelters. There's only three three shelters across the entire US devoted to male domestic violence. Um there's still a lot of shame and there's a view that it might be underreported. Mostly women suffer from this problem, Scott. Yeah, but it's true. There there's a there's there's an assumption. Uh there's just I get it. There's no arguing that men are violent. Mm-hmm. But that doesn't mean men women don't engage in violence either. It didn't didn't say that, but the comparison is most violence is committed by men in general. In general. In general. It's murders, blah blah everything. Every statistic is largely I it's not really it's just I I I do think it's a function of gender. I do think it's a function of uh impulse control and everything else. But I'm no scientist. Yep. Yep. Yep . And this manliness. This man there was a really great cover of The Atlantic recently about the sort of the man hating groups. And they're they're always back. They're always like, they're back. I'm like, they're always there in some weird way. Um speaking of man, men, um there's uh construction crews are building the UFC fighting cage on the south lawn of a White House in preparation for the night of mixed martial arts, celebrating the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of the US independence. Over four thousand spectators plan to watch from inside the ar And uh there's all this complaining by Joe Rogan and others about gnats and bugs and outside and a lot of some of the champions aren't coming because it's i i it th they don't usually do it outside um and it it creates a if if you're going for world you know these these are actual competitors if you're going for titles it's not it's it's not a good thing to fight outside apparently. Um weigh-ins will be held at the Lincoln Memorial, which is I don't know what to say about that, but okay, fine, fine, fine. I I I just don't know what to say. I I it it looks it's ridiculous, you know, it's it feels clownish I was invited. I said no. I don't I don't enjoy that stuff and I don't need to be you know, I I I think it's disingenuous for me to show up and break bread or or party with someone who I'm constantly critical of. The event itself is brilliant. Do you think? Oh gosh. Men and and quite frankly a lot of women, their mothers and their sisters who in America, uh and this will trigger some people, still vote for who they perceive will be most beneficial for their husbands and their sons. And young men are doing really, really poorly. And uh if you think about government, government in the United States, largely speaking, has been feminized, if you look at the events. The events are basically like, you know, like the Queen was merchandising and throwing them. For government events are very uh feminine for lack of a better word. Come on, Scott. Today you're very anti women today. I'm not calling why we're not sure. What do you mean government things are feminine? Oh, go to anything at the White House. It feels like it feels like it's been designed. Oh, hundred percent. They're very they're very proper, gentle. They're very feminine. And by the way, that that is a wonderful thing. Well, men can be proper and gentle. I don't I don't think that men can be provided. Yes, men can demonstrate wonderful feminine attributes. You mean like metal giving is is a feminine activity or giving, but the the the Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Government events and ceremonies tend to be very what people would consider, I think, somewhat more well, they're not a UFC fight. They're not a competition for the Trevor Burrus, but the UFC fight is way down the list. Even like comedy, the White House the White House dinner comes the closest to sort of something stepping out of what is seeing is overly planned, nurturing, appropriate. Yeah, I think the events are very kind of very feminine. And what is what are these guys doing? They're throwing a UFC fight. And it's kind of I think I you're gonna have they're gonna have huge viewership. It says to Trump, uh, re-infer reaffirms his his view of one of the reasons he won the election and that is like I'm a man's man, I see men, I appreciate quota quote for lack of a better term, masculinity. Unfortunately it's a fucked up weird, performative, dominant form of masculinity. But it's a brilliant marketing strategy. It's smart. I I'm not I don't I think it sometimes works. Like let me give an example of this attempt to turn James Tallerico like the of Stephen Miller, who was literally the most we weakak looking person you've ever seen, um, is uh call you know, he and others are calling because they're terrified of Talarico, so they're pulling out the anti-trans stuff immediately, saying the first trans senator he, doesn't know how to eat barbecue, is that a to Ted Cruz, another like someone I could easily beat in an um in a fight. Um with the tofu barbecue, uh uh the idea of soy boy. I I mean I this is not manly in any way. This is like this I don't and I don't think it works as much anymore with people. Um it's do it's deeply insulting. It i it might work in Texas. I hate to say it. I think they the Tall Rico people should take this very seriously because Kamala Harris didn't with the trans stuff that worked really well in the election and it might work in Texas. But they're trying to, you know, paint him as gay. I think that's what they're gonna where's the girlfriend. Uh trans. Is she he trans? He's a soy boy. You know, this is all like and what I think about it it's so grotesque because I'm like these are all men over fifty or whatever. I don't I mean Stephen Miller looks over fifty even though he's younger. Um but th this is this like name-calling bullying bullshit that is not part of being a man, any men I know that I think are decent men I it's fine if people want to do this. I when I was a kid, I went to fights with my grandfather and went to wrestling matches. He was a promoter. Um and he loved it. Um so I see the the the entertainment and everything else in it. But the the the the the the soy boy trans thing that they're pushing on Telarico is so so ugly and toxic and unfortunately it does work. Uh uh at some point. I don't know if you think it'll work in Texas, but it might. It certainly could. Aaron Powell Yeah, I think I think there's a a fairly large distinction between a sanctioned sport where it's a lot of men in top physical shape. Um I don't like it. I don't enjoy watching it. But I I I think that that is a legitimate sport. It's a huge sport. It's I think arguably one of the most successful sports of the last several decades. It's a well-run sport . Um creates a lot of economic value for many of the fighters. So I, you know, I I think you can I think in a bipartisan way you can say that the UFC serves a purpose and is successful . us around Talo Rico is not only that one, it's not true, but two, to assume that leving an accusation that someone is gay or trans is supposed to be negative. It trains young people are people that if you call someone that i it it it's an your opponent doesn't call you something unless they're trying to say to the world that's a negative. Right. Absolutely. No, no. And I I hope at some point people regurgitate on things like that and say, quite frankly, it's you know, someone w we used to call in college you used to call people fags. Yeah. And at some point, some people someone says, yeah, and or what it's like uh people uh l online call me a Zionist, and I wr respond, proud Zionist. I mean, I just at some point people are gonna realize uh uh going after people's sexual orientation just says more about you than it says about them. It does. It's but it's that's a tactic. They're trying to drum that in in that race. And so unfortunately it might work in Texas. Well, it it's an indictment on Texas that these people have done the research and f and decided that it works. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. So I I I hope he responds. I will say this that in defense well I'm not getting rico, he and I follow many of the same people on Instagram and it's not the leaders, Cara. Yes, I know. It's some scorching hot young ladies who make their living with a with a with a webcam. Um they just they did it. They also trying to do it to Andy Bashir, they obviously veto everything. You know, it's a r I I it's very to me, it's mean at the end misogynistic. And speaking of that, the Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation. Of course, i this all leads to the same thing. The Justice Department has opened a criminal investigation into Egene Carroll, the formal magazine writer who won two civil lawsuits against Trump totaling, you know, close to ninety million dollars in payments tied to sexual abuse and defamation. The DOG pro be is reportedly focused on whether Carol committed perjury and testimony, typical. This is what they're doing to whether it's to Leticia James or whoever they're trying to go at. Specifically, Carol's saying she hadn't received outside funding for illegal bills. Her lawyers later said Reed Hoffman had contributed. This is the latest in a series of DOG probes targeting Trump's opponents and critics like James Comey, Letitia James, and others. It's stupid to be afraid. Why live your life that way? I've been here eighty one years I'm not gonna waste the last of it worrying about that guy in marmalade colored makeup. It makes no sense. So that's what I'm gonna do . So what do you think about this? This talk about misogyny and getting you know, she's won the cases against him and he's trying not to pay them, and he's doing everything possible to try not to pay them. And this is the latest parry using the justice department to carry out his Aaron Powell I think it comes down to this. So one, if she did say something that wasn't true under oath, that's real. And they're claiming that she didn't acknowledge that she was getting help with her legal bill I don't know to the extent though in a case like that that is grounds for revisiting a case when it has when it doesn't have anything to do with the actual uh crime she's accusing the president of. What is consistent here is the weaponization of the DOJ to go after his political enemies. So this is just n another example of the fact that we don't have a government that's meant to protect the people. It's now there to protect the president. And I think Eugene Carroll I mean, I thought, okay, Eugene Carroll is ending the presidency because he was I mean, just to keep in mind, folks, this was a jury of his peers . Who heard heard a ton of evidence. And they said, well, it was in liberal New York. Well, okay. New York if you had nine jurors, five are probably Democrats, but four Republicans and two to mature con aviction, all nine have to agree. So so this was a, you know, this was there's a reason that when someone is usually convicted of a crime, the public used to come together and say, this person is guilty and, you know, should be disqualified. Or you know, we keep every time this stuff happened, we keep we kept thinking, that's it, it's over. And it wasn't. But it's just uh I do think it's important to have a a a legal scholar to say w in most cases with this type of infraction if in fact she and she did. She did not acknowledge that she was having her legal bill. I don't even think it's about the money. I think it's about over turning a conviction of a perceived enemy and going after. Mm-hmm. The guy's made billions of dollars illegally on crypto. I think it's He still doesn't want to pay. He's a cheap bastard. He still doesn't want to pay. I'm personally I'm surprised they did this. I would have thought they would I think this just brings it up again. I would have thought that we would want it to fade into the display. He doesn't care. He doesn't care. Anyway, Eugene, uh we hope but this goes away, but it's such a it's such a fucking nuisance. It's such a ridiculous nuisance. Anyway, uh let's go in a quick break. We come back, Pope Leo's warning about AI. I'm very excited to talk about this . Dell PCs with Intel inside are built for the moments you plan. And the ones you don't. For the time you forgot your charger at the gate. Passengers, we are now on our initial ascent. Or when you're bouncing between projects like a ping pong ball . 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So for me, that's absolutely worth it. May is packed with back-to-back reasons to be out. Don't let a rough morning after keep you on the sidelines. Drink pre alcohol to stay ahead of it and make the most of every Saturday this month. Go to ZBiotics.com slash pivot to learn more and get fifteen percent off your first order when you use Pivot at checkout. Z Biotics is backed with a hundred percent money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to ZBiotics.com slash PIVOT and use the code PIVIT at checkout for 15% off Support for the show comes from Odoo. There's an endless supply of software out there that promises to streamline your workflow. That may be true for a specific aspect of your business, but if you need one app for accounting, one for inventory management and another for sales, how streamlined can your workflow actually be if you have to be the middleman between them? Odoo says they're the answer you're looking for, the only business software you'll ever need. Odo can be your one-stop shop for CRM accounting Inventory E-Commerce HR and more plus it's super customizable and easy to use out of the box and the best part they say not only can they replace multiple applications but they say they'll do it for a fraction of the cost. Whether you're just starting out or already well on your way to scaling, Odoo wants to help you put the clutter aside such that you can do what you set out to do when you started your company. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at od oo.com. That's odo od o .com Scott we're back and we're gonna start off with our next topic with a question from a listener. Hi Karen, Scott. My name's Bridget, and I'm calling from Oakland. I'm asking as a Catholic Buddhist pivotarian. I was so delighted to hear that Pope Bob , also known as Pope Leo X , delivered his first encyclical, which was about AI, and he was speaking truth to power from a place of power, which is pretty rare. Have either of you read it? And if so, what do you think? Do you think it can move the needle towards putting guardrails up for this juggernaut that's really careening off the road already, or maybe even rein in those dickheads who are mindlessly amping it up for their own self serving profits. Thanks for all the humor and wisdom you've provided over the years and keep it up. Ha ha. Yep. I just set prof G up for a dick joke. I love Bridget. I love our listeners and Pivotarian. Let's start a religion. That would be so good. Thank you, Bridget. That was a great question. We love your sassiness. That's the kind of listeners we love. Um so to catch people up, Pope Leo released his first encyclical uh this week of a 4200-word letter to all uh about AI titled Magnificent Humanity, Magnificus, I can't say it in Latin, but it's magnificent humanity. The Pope acknowledged that artificial intelligence can be a valuable tool. Tower of Babel. Um he shared some strong words about what needs to happen next. Let's listen to him himself talk about it. Artificial intelligence needs to be disarmed . The word is strong, I know , but deliberately chosen because this moment needs words capable of attracting attention, awakening consciences, and indicating paths forward for humanity Some of the specific things the Pope is calling for. Government regulation of private companies driving AI development seems normal. Protecting children from violent sexual or fake information generated by AI. Excellent suggestion. Safeguards to make sure humans are responsible for all decisions tied to the use of weapons. Again, a great thing. He also didn't uh shy away from talking about people at the helm of AI. That was really the focus is who's running it. In the abstract, technology, in and of itself is not a solution to humanity's problems, just it is not inherently evil. In practice, however, technology is never neutral because it takes on the characteristics of those who devise, finance, regulate, and use it. Some big tech folks are on board here. Anthropic co-founder Christopher Ola joined the Pope at the Vatican as the encyclical was presented, but reactions from DC and Silicon Valley have been mixed. Vice President J.D. Bance called a Pope's war ning profound. That was interesting. But Interior Secretary Doug Burgham told Fox News I didn't know what tech editorializing was part of the role being a Pope. Well it is, Doug. It's certainly not part of your role as interior secretary. Uh David Sachs wrote the Pope rightly warns that AI must serve human dignity, not become a tool of domination and exclusion. Well, someone who dominates and excludes, which is a nice thing to hear. But it goes on, if we hand gut , if we hand the government sweeping power over AI development in the name of safety, how do we prevent it from being used to censor, surveil, or control citizens? Honestly, this guy is so hypocritical. Anyway, um what did you think of the take? And I think he's been listening to Pivot or or a lot of stuff we talked about for years. I love Pope being on team on this team. But thoughts on this? Well we talk a lot about the actions of the administration and different things that are just been really bad for brand U.S., whether it was the insurrection or um you know cutting off USA, there's just been so many poor decisions that have really hurt our brand. Actually I think the best thing or one of the best things that's happened for the U.S. brand, you know, to a certain extent, AI and just the economic boom out here and the fact that we've the most seminal technology in a long time in terms of share creation and what might have an impact on the world is just owned and dominated by the US. That's very good for our brand. And I think that's been great for our brand is is the is Pope Leo. He's just incredibly articulate. He comes across as measured, brave, connects real world issues with spiritual issues and issues of dignity. And he's American. He went to Villanova. Yeah, that voice. Yeah. Chicago. He's got such a Chicago accent. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Um but just his comments, if you were just to distill his comments, they were really powerful. He believes that AI should serve humanity, not replace it. Uh the biggest danger is the concentration of power. He's clearly he's talking a lot about income inequality. And he's he's skeptical of a sm small number of companies controlling the infrastructure of intelligence. Um he wants he thinks AI could amplify inequality and create he talked about a new oligarchy where private firms wield enormous influence over truth, labor, and governments. I would argue that, you know, the cat's already out of the bag there. I I one of the more controversial things or interesting things I should say is you said AI is not neutral, that the algorithms encode the values of the creators, not uh some sort of neutral view on of different views of humanity, which I'm not sure. I actually think in a weird way why social media has polarized us. I think that because I think AI is different. I think it's more I do think from a viewpoint and ideology standpoint, it's more moderating. Uh, and sometimes it comes across as quite politically correct, I think. Um he also talked about job displacement being a real moral is sue. Uh autonomous weapons terrify him. He called for it to be disarmed and worried about weapon systems operating beyond meaningful human control . Um and then he talked about human connection, the thing I love, you know, I like the softer stuff, human connection mattering more than synthetic intimacy. Um and then and this is the thing I think if if you were gonna try and translate this into some sort of legislation, and we're not focused enough on this, is that uh children are are the most vulnerable. And I was just thinking about you know, think about when you learned to r to write and how difficult it was. Like I knew you were on your school newspaper. Claire's doing it right. Yeah, I was. But Claire's doing it right now. It's really interesting to watch. Yeah. I got I got a s in my senior year of high school, I got a C in English. I had a real difficult time writing. Yeah. And I went through that pain, I went through that friction. And if I had just had AI, like write my papers, I I never would have made those connections. I never would have gone through the friction of making those connections. And so and I think the really trouble writing you're a very good writer, actually. And I think the question is if you have if kids have AI, do they ever do the work and make the connections? As a matter of fact, in my first year at UCLA, I was failing English one. And I said, what happens if you fail English one? Because it was a core class. You had to take it. It was a requisite. They say, well, you have to take English as a second language despite the fact I didn't speak a second language. Wow. Yeah, that was pretty big. Yeah, the friction. You're right. And this is the problem and the threat of technology across all of our youth. And that is why venture outside and go through the pecking order and the bullying order and figuring out your place and trying to find or join a gang, if you will, of friends when you think you can have a reasonable facsimile of friendship on Reddit or Discord? Why why take risks, go through the expense, humiliation, and doing you know rejection of trying to find a romantic relationship when you think you can replace it with synthetic life like character AIs or or porn. So the the de-frictioning of life and AI kind of takes it to a new level, especially with academia or academics. It teaches young people to never develop the key skills they have to really uh be successful in life and enjoy life. Aaron Powell Yeah, absolutely. I think most important parts is this. I do think who's making it matters. And he was very clear about that in terms of he was saying like for example it's not i the morality of AI, it's the morals of the people who make it. And I think he was talking about being a very small group of people who are very interested in um in in money really. I and I you know I I thought it was very one of the things he was named Pope Leo because of the last Pope to do something like this was over manufacturing and and the mechanization of things. And he's he's it was very selected and to pick this topic. He very carefully didn't insult technology, but he really clearly insulted its creators or said we need to do better. And I think being the conscience saying Doug Bergum is such a mor on. I mean, of course he's the conscience of you know that J.D. Vance acknowledged that I think he's the conscience of the world of his world and it extends well beyond Catholics, let me say. Um and I think it's really important for leaders like this to step up um and and and and suggest it and I do think it does have an impact as people are talking about it and they are talking about the issues he brought up, including these safeguards around uh weap onry, uh protecting children. And this is already in the air with people. And the fact that the Pope does it and stands up and without any and then had some tech people there, I thought it was he's such a savvy person. I'm excited to see what else he takes on. And you know, of course the stupid Trump people call him the woke pope, but honestly, he's just he's the con it's called conscience. It's not woke. But he did say uh just to wrap up, when you were talking about autom ation and uh the last time technology appeared to be sort of a threat, the industrial revolution mechanized labor. And what he's saying is that AI risks mechanizing judgment and cre ativity and intimacy and even meaning itself. And his his the way I would to interpret his c comments was less catastrophizing around AI will kill us. But AI could potentially make us less human while um concentrating extraordinary wealth and power in the hands of a few firms and states. I just think I think this guy distills right to the core of the issues. He is very smart. He is very impressive. He is not afraid. I mean, as smart as he is, he clearly had very smart people working on these the people I've met at the Vatican have been amazing. But I love that he called it magnificent humanity. And by the way, I love that he made Cliff Notes for people. He made a little chart, which is really good. It's an excellent chart. Um I love a chart and I love a Cliff Note. Um anyway there's lots more AI to get to have a lot of little stories, but important . Uh installs for DuckDuckGo have jumped 30% after Google announced Google changes include a shift to AI with bigger, more interactive search box that lets users ask longer questions and upload photographs. It's it's a significant change for search . Um I have not used Google search in a long time in a weird way. I d I definitely use it for some things, but I tend to use I use all kinds of search services, but it's not only through Google is all I'm saying. It used to be only through Google. And I like the simple box, I feel lucky box. I have always thought it was fine, but I see why they're doing it. At the same time a lot of people are like, now they're never gonna link to anything but what they want to link to. But they've just sort of ended it for most people using Google to get to say media websites or whatever whatever you're looking for. So that seems to be a shift. Aaron Powell I think it's a smart ball move. I I think they menaces when you risk what is arguably or do any twix, the temptation around what is the most profitable, largest toll booth in history, when you risk you know, there's just probably so much momentum to like guys who don't fuck with it Absolutely. Don't change anything. So I think it's actually a pretty bold move. And I do find when I do Google search, those AI overviews are actually quite helpful. They've gotten better. They were bad and now they're good. You said that. You said you like them. Um I do. So it's I'm I I think it's the right thing. They have to respond, they have to push back. The reason why Alphabet was such an incredible buy trading at 17 times earnings last year was the market believed that OpenAI and AI queries were a an existential threat to search, that it was be gonna become the new search. And what we're saying is they're both growing like crazy. So but I find that I do oftentimes go to uh Claude instead of Google. Yeah, exactly. And Google just never gives me what I want anymore. It's not it's useless in some ways. And but when I like look for like how do you boil an egg or I don't do that. But um no how many minutes for jammy egg? I'll go to Google, right? That's but now actually I might go to Claude. You're right. I might do that. So they they kind of have to, you're right. I know people are bothered, but it's change they have to change. You're absolutely right. Um, next up, President Trump abruptly postponed signing an executive order on AI after former AI czar David Sachs reportedly voiced concerns that it could prove too onerous for the industry. He got back. He was had lost power, then he got it back, I guess. The order would have granted the government oversight on a new AI models before they were released to the public, very temporary oversight by the way. And it was some of it was voluntary. AI companies also been told that Trump was not happy that many of their chief executives could not attend the signing. That's probably more to the point. Uh, being invited just 24 hours prior. I don't think this order will surface. There was a brief attempt by certain people within the Trump administ ration who who were who were more interested in safety issues and uh David, you know, got in there and and so did Zuckerberg and um someone else, I can't remember it was a third person, um, who got in there and convinced him otherwise. This was uh I thought it was a good idea. Um the order would have required AI labs to share frontier models with the government 90 days before public release for security review. That seems like a very important and basic first step for any of this. I mean, uh something that really struck me was uh the founders of this technology, the people that know m more about it than any in the world, are saying that this technology is potentially more liberating than nuclear fusion and potentially more dangerous. So here's a technology that the people who understand it the best are saying is potentially more dangerous than nuclear weapons. We didn't let Oppenheimer start a company and start selling bombs to China. That's a good comparison. that's actually a very good thing. Well I think there's a really decent rational argument that if in fact you have something that is potentially more dangerous than any weapon in history, wouldn't you want the government controlling it? Yes. We're not only not controlling it, it's not only done it's not only uh done under the auspices of the Department of Defense, cooperating with the private sector or Lawrence Livermore Labs or whatever have you. We have people trying to go public and who have lawyers and lobbyists , um, many of whom stepped in here to say, you know, we all talk about the need for regulation. We've been to this movie before. We talk about we show up and stand next to the Pope and say in cosplay Charles Sandberg, we need to do better. We need to regulate. We are open to regulation. And then, oh no, get on the phone, tell him no, tell him, tell him to stop, tell him his big bet on AI. Ninety-three per ofcent G DP growth is now from AI, CapEx, can't do anything to get in the way. And if you slow our runners down, the free games, anabolic steroid pumped up Chinese models are gonna are gonna come for us and beat us. And there's no truth to that. And if they did this correctly and they had standards, government review might actually make the industry better and make them less prone. You know, regul ation at this point would be a feature, not a bug in terms of capitalism and these companies' ability to know know how to develop what they can, what they can't do, what they need to check. But a ninety day review I know. Exactly. It's ridiculous. I just i there's a real beef going on in the administration and SACS is on one side and some others are on the others. And we'll see, you know, eventually this will happen for these companies. They just wanna put it off as long as they can. And SACS is not working for the safety of the United States or anything else. He's working for his friends in Silicon Valley. China. twenty twenty six legislative work plan in May with AI governance language appealing around. And about jobs, because they know what'll happen if people feel adrift in China. That's not something that can happen. You're absolutely right. They're they're so much smarter in how they handle these things, which is really a depressinging th to say. Trevor Burrus They released they enacted binding rules on AI emotional interaction, identity disclosure, and content extraction of the readability. They read the Pope. Zero. Zero. Except in the states. And there's more to come. Th this there's a real anger brewing and it is not it's it's something a democratic candidate should not like kill the billionaires kind of thing or or or or pitchforks. But there's a pitchforky. I was just talking to Tim Miller on his podcast and he feels a pitchforky moment. And that's not what you want. You want something that's makes sense and unfortunately, because the tech people just can't possibly uh accept any kind of s of a stricture or speed limit. They they they're gonna they're gonna unfortunately get the worst the worst outcome for themselves eventually. But probably they'll be just fine. Just as Lincoln said, no country can lose a war when it has public support, no country can win a war when it doesn't have it. If you look at what China has done with AI and it has released a series of um legislative pol icies and around emotional security, uh concentration of power, and it's made them public. The difference is the following: the Chinese now support AI. Eighty-seven percent of Chinese people trust AI versus just 32 percent of Americans. Because why? Because the Chinese believe that their government has the ability to protect them against AI and is regulating the technology effectively. Fifty-four percent of Chinese people embrace greater use of AI versus just seventeen percent of Americans. And nine in ten Chinese ag ent to thirty four said they had faith in the technology versus four in ten of Americans in the same age people. And young people particularly. I mean, good job, David Sachs. Everybody is embracing AI and trusts it, and trusts that they have a government to kind of soften the edges or reduce some of the externalities. Whereas in the U.S., you have people driving hundreds of miles to protest a fucking data center. So that you want to talk about w we just get it so bass accord. There's just pr largely probably because they wouldn't show up to his party. That's my guess with him because he's so ridiculous. Um but any in any case, we have to move on to this because this isn't a topic uh that you've talked about. Uber's COO says it's hard to draw a connection between the company's rising use of Clawedode c and the expense, especially the tokens, and innovation meant to serve consumers. This comes after uh after reports the company already burnt through its entire 2026 AI coding tools budget, this is to buy tokens, in just four months . Um, this is this is a f one of these indications you were talking about, right? This idea that what are we getting here for our money? Uh am I paying too much for this muffler? That kind of stuff. There are ninety-five percent of CFOs in a interesting study done by a a professor out of MIT said that ninety only one in twenty CFOs are uh can point to a positive ROI and it's starting to bubble up into a real expense . And there's even NVIDIA is claiming they're spending more now on the AI internally than they're spending on humans. And so this is it's going to be very interesting, Kara, because for example, Claude is about nine times more expensive than some of the Chinese openweight LLMs. And when the CFOs see these bills and aren't immediately able to connect it, Uber's blown through its AI budget, you know, in a few weeks or a few months , and someone's gonna ask, how is this making the consumer's experience with Uber better? And this is how the whole thing unwinds. One uh a really credible CEO says, okay , we're going to scale back our investment here until we can figure out a way to more directly attach it to some sort of consumer benefit or ROI. And I think where if you go second and third order effects, I think it goes to the following places. Supposedly 80% of startups are hacking or using some sort of Chinese open weight LLM. One, they use less expensive chips, they have cheaper power. I also think they're pricing it below market because a lot of local provinces in China have sort of their local champions that they're subsidizing. And I think what we're going to see is the Trump administration when they start to see companies opt for their cheaper Chinese mobs. We've been to this movie before. China still is our IP. Trevor Burrus, Yeah. Can I I'm going to interject one of the things, Mark Cuban had when I was interviewing Daru Emoti at a recent event, um, I said, send me a question. Um, and I said I had just I thought that was a great qu I did ask that. It was a really it was a he was already clocking this, this issue that maybe people are more less expensive than this token, these tokens that that costs. And tokens are what you spend on computing, just for people who don't know Yeah. Humans are less expensive. And Cloud, I think it's Cloud Cloud Code Max. I've already run out of tokens. I'm playing with this shit so often. I had uh one of those prompts that says you need to upgrade to Cloud Max, which is two hundred dollars a month. What's interesting. Do you get the benefits? Do you get the benefits of the money you spend? Or just you're playing with it? At this point it's well worth it for me. I'm just fascinated by it. I have discussions around Yeah. And I also use it to I use it to find data. If I'm struggling, if I have a paragraph that just sounds clunky, I I say say , how would you edit this or what analogies would be better? You know, you could call me for free and I would probably do a better job. You're not available. And by the way, define free. Oh good But what's interesting and what I found out about Cloud Max, the $200 a month thing that I'm about to upgrade to, is that it costs them for you to use Cloud Max, it costs Anthropic five thousand dollars a month to deliver Aaron Powell Amazing. Yeah, just the cost on infrastructure and power. Once we sell more, we'll s volume. We'll make it up in volume, right? Is that the Well no, the the what they're hoping is the the la ws, one of the first economic concepts you learn Is that and it's called J it's not Jehovah's Paradox. I forget this guy wrote a brilliant paper on it, but I just thought he just summarized the term elasticity. But the economic term elasticity is that as the price of something goes down, the demand for it goes up. And everybody thought, well, as computing power goes down and becomes so cheap, chips will go out of business because you won't need as many from Intel. And what happens is as the cost of something goes down, more and more people use it . And there's a viable argument, and I've sort of been making this argument about what I call apocalypse no, and that is all the catastrophizing around labor destruction is total bullshit, that as the costs of AI go way down, we're going to find more uses for it. And we're actually going to end up hiring more programmers or vibe code. Could be. I do think the costs are going to actually go down eventually, but just not today. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Elon possibly combining SpaceX and Tesla just as Karis Wisher predicted . Support for the show comes from Hems. If you have weight loss goals, you already know how difficult it can be. Enter weight loss by HIMS. It's designed to support you not only in losing weight, but keeping it off as well. And now HIMS is offering access to an affordable range of FDA-approved GLP1 medications, including the Wagovi pill and the Wagovi pen. 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Also, um uh by the way, SpaceX got a $2.29 billion contract to build a satellite compu They have to uh deliver an operational prototype by the end of 2027. So he's doing well. He's doing well with his help of Trump, et cetera. But this uh this putting Tesla in here, it just makes complete sense is that he's someone said it was like two it was mortgage backed securities, a bunch of companies that can't pay wrapped around Elon Musk and a company that's okay, which is Starlink. Um so it's like a sort of a collection. And so he's shoving this stuff all together. Um the d it makes sense on a data point of view. Um it makes sense uh to hide a bunch of stuff. Uh he already had these weird, very questionable transactions like buying cyber trucks for s for SpaceX, which makes no sense except if you want to look good. Um so why not just mash the whole fucking thing together and then make everybody buy it uh who is in an index fund, which is another thing. So any of these comments, the contract, the merger, the the NASDAQ situation. Well you did predict it, but my analogy is the following. Um Snow White is hot and the prospect of getting to marry Snow White is super exciting and Snow White is SpaceX. But unfortunately to buy SpaceX you gotta take on these seven fucking weirdos who are expensive and neurotic. And I mean XAI, which has been attached onto uh SpaceX an Incredible Company is a money furnace that's playing cat catch up. It's trying to be an infrastructure provider now. So is so is um Net And SpaceX, I I'm sorry. And Tesla, I still think Tesla is a great product. I got them one the other day. I do think they have a fantastic car, but it's a struggling business with a multiple 120 -92 times forward earnings. And Apple trades at 33 times forward earnings. And then if you look at Tesla's just business in the in in Europe, they've sales have fallen for 13 consecutive months . Um its market share in Europe has gone from 1 percent to 0.8 percent, while the EV market has expanded about 30 percent in 2025. In Norway, sales were down ninety percent, Netherlands down eighty percent, UK down fifty percent. Meanwhile, BYD registrations are up 2 60 percent in Europe. And the reason why it's valuation. I just note I didn't say it was a bad car. I said he didn't innovate in it. There was no new cars and BYD keeps innovating. Every time you see a new one you're like, Cool. Tesla's the same pretty much the same car for the past. And then they deliver Cybertruck as their innovation. So that's my beef. Stocks are like brands and that is their part promise and part performance. And the promise uh no one articulates and gets more cheap capital on the promise part of that equation than Elon Musk. He's arguably the best salesperson and communicator in the history of the public markets. And the promise though, the performance is like so far behind the promise, for example, these things have not the promise has not worked out. So robotaxi miles, they doubled sequentially in Q1. But it's he was saying that there would be a thousand robotaxis on the road about five years ago. Uh across all three Texas cities where robotaxis operate, Tesla has just twenty-five unsupervised vehicles. Um I mean none, right? Meanwhile, their SF Robotax still uses a safety monitor in the front seat. And there are five more cities on the way, but Must's timelines famously cannot be trusted. And then he tries to create all of these distractions. Look over here at robots. I'm staying, I'm staying in Beverly Hills in Los Angeles. If I go to my my dad Aaron Powell But there's actually fewer uh of the Tesla taxis, Robotaxis in in Austin. They've cut them back. Trevor Burrus And then the worst car release or you know, the worst tech product the last year was the Cybertruck, which by the way is about to be bested by one of the great brands in history. You're about to see one of the biggest brand failures in history, and that is the equivalent. Tech has literally like infected Oh it's gonna be Johnny I the Johnny I It's going to be one of the brand stories of the year. It's it's a d it's basically they said uh Apple gave up on their Project Titan and they slapped a they slapped a uh a stallion on it. You're gonna see, oh my God, you're gonna see the Ferrari Pierce. You're gonna see so many 80-year-old old men go out onto TikTok for the first time in their lives to shitpost this thing. And SpaceX, get this. SpaceX accounted for nearly 20% of cyber truck sales in Q four twenty twenty five 'cause he bought back a bunch of cyber trucks. So I think it's smart for him to do. It's more jazz hands. It's more pretending, attaching something to something amazing to try and I mean, he's very good at this and you predicted it. But to take e put Elon on top of something that's very exciting around rockets, data centers in space. Yeah, and he is a visionary. We need to be an interplanetary species. And now you have to buy it with NASDAQ . Explain to people very briefly what that is, so so people understand. The index fund issue is that it's they've lowered the amount of time before j big IPOs go into the index and, now people are going to be forced to buy his company. Also OpenAI, also Andropic, et cetera. Trevor Burrus So basically the rule was before you joined the SP, you had to be profitable for a certain amount of quarters and you had to be in the index for at least a year. They've waived those rules because they realize and it makes sense. They're big important companies. What that means is if you invest in an ETF or an index, you're automatically own these companies at those prices. And at these prices, at these valuations, I would argue . I mean, to a certain extent, the IPO markets might be over. And that is the way I see it is the the reason we went public, the reason Google went public was you couldn't or five billion dollars from venture capitals and private institutions in nineteen ninety seven. Now there's almost as much capital, if not more, in the private market. So logically you have to ask yourself, why does a company decide to go public? And one reason it's a branding event, two, it creates more liquid currency, potentially , but these companies have very liquid currency on the secondary markets. They do it because I I think largely speaking, and they don't want to say this out loud, once the private investors go, look, this thing's getting pretty frothy, most of the juice has been squeezed out of it. Well, who is stupid enough to take the valuation even further up? Well, okay, the last stop on the Trump on the Trump train right now is the public markets. So typically a company like OpenAI would have gone public when it was worth thirty or fifty billion, but the existing investors of OpenAI and Anthropic say, oh no, no, no, no, they're still juicier. Let's keep this to ourselves and we'll find you capital. And then when they start going, wow, this valuation is rich for even us, let's go see if mom and pop retail investor and people on Robinhood and people on Reddit who love Elon and people around the world who want to participate in the e economy are actually willing to invest . I my prediction is these three companies, especially AI, are going to go through a pretty serious repricing, not a collapse like a 2000 collapse, but a repricing. And then when you combine that with the fact that you now have access to private companies with different secondary markets, potentially the tokenization of small companies. It's just going to make the IPO less and less relevant because of the reporting standards. And this is the indices trying to say we want to make it more attractive for companies to go public and also reflect. The S P should reflect. I get it. It's just that people shouldn't have this sh shoved an unprofitable kind company with with qu held up by one guy shoved down their throat. Without it's like getting the U two album. Yeah, but you could say that is is P and G shoved down their throat? It's the same thing. It is, but it's a profitable company. It's been a business like let's just give it a best returns have been in companies that are growing faster and not profitable. Yes, it is. And at the same time, let them buy it themselves then. I mean it just seems like a risky thing to stick in there this quickly. That's all. I just I'm like it's gonna benefit the people uh it's gonna benefit Elon Musk, but maybe not the pension funds If you look if you look at the valuation of these companies going public, it's going to be combined, four trillion dollars. It's like from nineteen eighty to twenty twenty, the the amount of money being raised just across these three companies is it's just staggering. And what it probably will do on the sh ort run is it'll probably take the SP down because so much money is going to come from every corner of the earth to to participate in these things. To raise $150 million , the rest of the market feels that. If you want to talk about I mean what happens i I'm fascinated by this because what happens when these three companies go public, 11,000 people in the Bay Area, Bay Area are overnight. Imagine everyone who goes walks into Madison Square Garden, place is sold out. Everyone who walked in was a 31-year-old product manager making $180,000 or $240,000 a year, good living, but some student debt, can't afford a house. And they walk out on the worth $7 million to $11 million . What happens? They have more kids. They buy a new house as evidenced by skyrocketing prices. Upside here, you're going to see a lot of funds started. There's also tremendous new business development. The other thing you're gonna see, which is a good thing, you are about to see the mother of all increases in philanthropic giving in the Bay Area. One would hope. Well, I do people do. These people do start Let me just say if you look at the actual statistics, it's Mackenzie Scott, and then a t which is an enormous graph, like a big long bar, and then all the others, including Elon Musk down here. I'm not talking about the big ones. I'm talking about a lot of people Americans are very generous, philanthropic people. And when all of the people Sorry I just two things here. When you do when you do have this kind of liquidity event, you do see a bump up in philanthropy. Sure. Philanthropy is almost entirely correlated now, unfortunately, to big IPOs in the stock market. And a lot of people give stock to universities, tax advantage. Universities. That's what I've done. Every time I invest in a private company, I give a certain amount of it away to one of my, you know, to either public education or teen suicide prevention. Okay. And I think Scott's right it's gonna there's gonna be a decline in some in a lot of these. Anyway. Uh but it's a really interesting time given all three of these are gone at once. Um , one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Changes in sexual performance are more common than most people realize, and support doesn't need to feel awkward. With MedExpress, everything happens privately online. Start by completing a short consultation reviewed by UK registered clinicians. If eligible, treatment is delivered discreetly to your home, with ongoing support whenever you need it. You're not alone in this. Visit medexpress.co.uk slash podcast to learn more. Right, home from work. Walk the dog . Kids are back. Up the stairs for something Ugh Back down, no idea what I went up for. Mum, what's for dinner? Chop. Sizzle done. Hello fresh can't slow life down, but it makes bringing everyone together around the table a whole lot easier. So it's phones down, forks up. Hello Fresh. Bring back dinner time . Hello . Hi, I'm Maria Sharapova, host of the Pretty Tough Podcast. Each episode I sit down with high achieving women to discuss the pursuit of excellence without apology. This week on the show, clinical psychologist and founder Dr. Becky Kennedy and I unpack what it really means to raise kids today. I think parenting is the most important job in the world and the one that has the most impact on your world and the world. It is non-stop. Check out Pretty Tough, new episodes on Wednesdays. You can watch it on YouTube or listen in your favorite podcast app . Okay, Scott, I'm gonna start just very quickly. I wanna call out um something that happened. Um two two things quickly. CBS News just named tech journalist Nick Bilton as the new executive producer of sixty minutes. Bilton is a longtime tech journalist and filmmaker who's never worked in traditional broadcast news. Uh I know Nick. Interesting. CBS declined to renew her contract. She's an excellent reporter. She did great stuff on character AI. She's been a wonderful reporter. The move comes six months after Alphonse's report on abuse inside Salvadoran prisons was abruptly pulled before airing a month later, the time Alphonse called the decision political, and it certainly was in a statement. She said she did a really uh like she just burnt the house down leaving. Uh Alphonse said the exit is quote a deliberate choice to penalize a journalist for refusing to sanitize She adds sends a chilling message across the entire newsroom. And by the way, Sharon's not the only one, Henderson Cooper stepping out the way he is not usually leaving a few weeks ago saying, I hope 60 Minutes remain 60 Minutes. He also was sending sort of a shot across the bow there. I just want to call it these two excellent journalists of 60 Minutes. And um Sharon's a badass. I I don't I know I know we're m just met her on text actually, but and Anderson I think has done an amazing job. So these are two really uh really great journalists and I I predict that they will do just fine. But good for them for for uh speaking out and m especially good. There was a student who won an award at the Emmys last night a w was named uh a scholarship for Mike Wallace, and he delivered a blistering attack on uh uh uh supporting these these two journalists and supporting others like them. And I thought that person was incredibly it's very hard to speak out. And Anderson and Sharon and this young student uh did so and I I really I think you'll do you guys will do just fine. Good for you for standing up. That's all I have to say. Prediction. I think it's a really interesting it'll be a really interesting case study in organizational behavior and management classes in business school. And that is corporations continue to fall for the notion that if they bring in a small company they perceive as really innovative, that that small virus is going to infect the entire corpus. And generally almost always what you find is that the corpus rejects the virus. It's like w w acquisitions work when the acquiring company has the scale and distribution or capital to help scale the small innovative company. But to believe that the innovation is going So let's give let's give the free press the benefit of the doubt. Innovative little company, subscription based, interesting positioning, and the Ellisons thought that's the kind of mojo and juice and infection we need at this larger, somewhat encephal itic corpus called CBS or Paramount. There's been organ rejection. Also, what CEOs of smaller companies fail to recognize is the following. And it's the reason why I've never been able to grow a big company to small companies, and that is a small company as ready fire aim. The person at the top really does get to make swift, crisp decisions. I am the decider. This is the way we're going. Our one of our key things here is speed, which means this is not a democracy. There's very few things that are less democratic than a small company trying to work fast or go fast, because it's kind of like what do we think? Okay, get on it. Ready, fire, aim. Let's start yesterday. In a large organization that's scaling, it's more about consensus and and getting people on board and culture and you're you're a speedboat ramming a tanker. And what you fail to realize is the CEO of a company like this, and what I think Barry has failed to realize, is you're Phil Jackson, the coach of the bulls? And that is your job, you're blessed with some unbelievable assets. Your job is not to coach Michael Jordan, it's to get along with him and be a resource for him. You're not in charge they are they they're the assets when you're mikel arteta and you're coaching bukaya socka at Arsenal which by the way just won the Prem League this is very exciting when you come into an organization like CBS and you do have kind of these stars that are iconic, your job is to get along with them. And so I think Well, let me say 60 minutes have been enormously successful. It's not on six minutes I mean no, but I'm just saying like pretending it's just because they're encephalitics and this sassy uh new startup is gonna change things. I think a lot of these errors are errors of incompetence, not of trying to change things and these old people won't change. These are like top level journalists that are we're doing CBS is Michael Jordan. Barry Weiss is Phil Jackson. His job isn't to show up and reorganize and tell everyone how to dribble and play again. His job, quite frankly, is to get the only management of CBS is the following. High, nice to meet you. How can I help? That's it. How can I help? Yeah. And if the answer is go away and leave us alone, fine. If it's we could use more resources here, we have trouble here, or we don't think our advertisers are . How can I help? That's it. I I love what you I'm sorry, I misunderstood. Let me say one of the things that happened at the Washington Post, too. Blaming these reporters, like when Will Lewis was like trashing the reporters, is like it's such an easy thing to do for people who think they're innovative. It's like you all suck. And some of some of the things need to change, but to say it's it's a problem of it's a bigger secular problem that's the issue in terms of costs and everything else. And so just telling people, just breaking things is not building things. And that's that is really hard to do when you're s I that's why we I never want to be at a big company. I don't know about you, but I like a s being a small speed boat. And if you make mistakes, you make mistakes. If you don't, you don't. I that's how I feel, but I don't know about you. Oh yeah. And this is this is the reason why I've never built a billion dollar company. I saw companies, you know, when they as soon as they have a CFO or someone in HR, I'm like, time to sell. Yeah. But having been on involved with a lot of big companies, I just shocked me. It just shocked me right away. The first thing I thought, well, we should do this, this, and this. And the COs were always , okay, they really had to think about what would be required to get buy-in , to potentially change the culture, to explain, be thoughtful, to create the right incentive mechanisms to ensure the behavior lined up. And I mean, you really are. There's some amazing things about a tanker, right? It can carry whatever it is, 100 million barrels or 10 million barrels of a product. Uh but you are, you know, you're steering a tanker and it takes a lot of effort and a big engine room and a lot of people. It's it is a different, there's so few people that can go from a lot of people. I would say, where are you in the alphabet? Are you from A to D? I'm good at A to D. Yeah, me too. Some people are good at coming in. Uh my old CEO at L2, Ken Allard, was good at kind of DA, D to H or I. And some people are can come into a company that's, you know, gone public. Dar k Astra Shahi is is amazing and mate is like great from L to S. He came into a company that was already jamming, scaling huge infrastructure, huge brand, and said, okay, uh somebody needs to be the adult here. And also there's some people who come into companies that are distressed who take a company from, you know, whatever it is, T to Z, that come in and cut costs and repackage something, take it through bankruptcy and make a lot of Scott, your next book is the Alphabet of Management. The Alphabet of Business. Yeah. All right. I want to hear your prediction though. I'm all confused and jet lagged right now. So I thought we were doing wins and fails. So if it's okay, I'm going to do wins and fails. But uh my win is and it just hasn't gotten enough attention, and it's just so exciting, and it's such a victory for the West. And I would argue it's actually in many ways, well, Iran has overshadowed it and inflation. Uh I I people really don't understand that something incredibly wonderful is going on here. And that is three years ago, Russia was supposed to take Kyiv in a weekend, and today Ukraine is striking Russian til Russian military infrastructure, oil refineries, ports, bomber bases, and semiconductor plants, hundreds, sometimes, sometimes more than a thousand kilometers inside of Russia. Putin is on the run. He is. I told you when I told you that a couple of weeks ago that all these people said Russia he's in much more trouble than you realize. But go ahead. Just recently they've hit the Riazon f refinery, one of Russia's largest fuel plants supplying the military military, the Tuopsey refinery and the Black Sea. They're going after ships, they're going after the Black Sea fleet, oil uh infrastructure in Perm, 700 miles from the border, the Yazo Yazilov refinery, seven hundred kilometers inside of Russia, and even the England strategic. If they started bombing oil oil fields. Buffalo. Or our military ships in San Diego. Can you imagine? No, no, no. Those Canadians. Or Norfolk Virginia building our submarines. What if drones were hitting? I mean, this is just incredible. And it's a function of drones. It's a function of the Delta. It's also quite frankly, uh, you know, we don't like to say this. Must turning off Starlink in Russia has seeded huge advan tage to the Ukrainian Army. Trevor Burrus That's always been a benefit, no question. Trevor Burrus But it is just I mean, if you think about this uh the what are they doing? They're producing thousands of long-range drones per month in 2024. In 25, they're doing 3,000. Trevor Burrus, they're going to be a huge technology country when this is all. Oh, yeah. They'll attract so much capital, assuming I go there. If I was young a person, that's exactly though the corruption is really quite impossible to deal with. But um if I was a young person, I'd go there. But there is there are significant corruption problems within that government and there's a wonderful message being sent to the world, and that is um there's a brutal lesson for authoritarians. Uh corruption scales until it collides with reality and technology, and in a motivated populace. Russia built the Potemkin Village uh version of a superpower , yachts, parades, hypersonic missiles, um shirtless horse cosplay, and the Ukrainians meanwhile I like that part. The Ukrainians meanwhile build software, drones , and engineers and just some numbers here to just talk about. I'm not rushing you're a weirdo that you're fascinated with or you about to go interview. I'm not. I'm not going anywhere. I am going to be in my front of mine thinking. What is it? The ghost of Walter Mondale? Who's up next on on with Kara Swisher? Russia has three times the population, ten times the economy, nuclear weapons, and one of the largest oil reserves in the world. And Ukraine is kicking its ass. I know. I love it. And Ukraine what does Ukraine have? Ukraine has coders and hoodies turning Home Depot into Lockheed Martin. I mean So look, increasingly, and this is a lesson for us, unfortunately, right now, the future belongs to the side that can innovate faster than the other side can more. So that's my win. And it hasn't got enough attention . This is so exciting for the West, for Ukraine. If Putin feels cornered and scared, he might do something terrible. You know, that that's that to me is the biggest thing. Unless you're gonna annihilate your enemy, you gotta give him a way out. That's what that's Sun Tzu. Yeah, but I don't think he thin he thinks that. I think he's terrified. But this is a victory for also for the EU, who has been steadfast in their support unlike America I'm with them. I was always behind you. I always behind them. All right. What's your fail? My fail is I just I think the best way. Timothy Snyder summarized it perfectly. I've been trying to figure out a way to describe what is effectively a one point eight billion dollar slush fund that uh Trump and his his spokesperson Blanche had been trying to pitch, and even even some Republicans are finally blanching. And the best way to describe it is a terrorist immunization fund. And that is commit violence on my behalf, and I will not only legally protect you, I will pay you. In addition to the corruption, it sends a signal to weirdos out there who are cult members that if something gets in the way of Trump, whether it's people turning out to a poll booth, whether it's people showing up to inaugurate the other guy, which I'm claiming was not fairly elected, I want you to commit acts of violence. I want you to engage in terrorists. And you will not only get off I'm gonna pay you. So this is this is not a slush fund. This is not only corruption, it's a terrorist immunization fund. I love that word. And that is the way I can't take credit for it. It's Timothy Snyder, who's one I I'm just obsessed with. Um I've had on the pot a couple times, who's at the University of Toronto and talks a lot about democracy and autocracies. He's fantastic and he's very brave. He's the dude, Heather Cox Richardson. But this is that's right. But this is imagine if uh a nation in the Gulf found name your terrorist organization and said, You blow yourself up, you commit acts of violence, not only we not prosecute you, we've set aside money for Aaron Powell Right. Well, they kind of did that. Well, the the PLO used to do that. The PLO used to say any any suicide bomber we're gonna give their family X amount of dollars. That's what this is. Yeah.