Social Media Bans and Global Policy

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The first takes your marketing from idea to full campaign, email, SMS, push, and the time it takes to describe it. The second handles every customer conversation, twenty four by seven, answering questions, recommending products, handling orders, both on brand and always on. Y next hires Clavios AI agents, get started at KLA viYo d. com Support for the show comes from Corawave Everywhere you look, AI is expanding what we thought was possible. And at the center of it all is CorWave. Medical research and diagnosis, education, complex visual effects for movies, science and technology breakthroughs. CorRWave powers AI pioneers around the world with purpose built tech, building what's never been built before. CoreWave is the essential cloud for AI, ready for anything, ready for AI To learn more about how Corewave powers the world's best AI, go to corewave. com slash ready for anything Admiral Swisher, take over Hi everyone. This is Pivot from the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Oh, do we have a lot to talk about? Wow but first off, where are you I'm in New York., I know that. You're at the Equinox Hotel? Oh, thanks for telling everybody, yes I'm sorry, you're not that important. That's not a security risk. A bunch of gay men are gonna show up and askst forro autograph. I'm gonna tell everyone where you you are I'm not that on I'm not. I try very hard not to say where're. find findind the nearest bar. But don't get hospitalized. Wh did you go to the like? Did you finally go to that stupid UFC thing last night? I did not go. Well you have the energy of it. I came home early I told you this to watch World Cup with my boys and it was a mistake. It was a mistake. I got that. Yeah But are you enjoying the World Cup anyway? Oh, it's fucinking amazing. The Netherlands and Japan was an amazing game. and I know you're very excited about this. Scotland's victory over Paraguay won nothing. Scotland has so much momentum You heard it here first? I think they're going to beat either Morocco or Brazil And if Scotland makes it to the As Scyalland makes it to the quarters of the semis, I'm taking my kids to Boston and we're gonna go see it. So I'm just so sounds fun It sounds like a good thing. It sounds very wholesome. And also the US, the US had a big victory They did. So anyways, I'm all about the World Cup. Well, good. didid you watch the Kicks or not? Did you care? I hate to say it because let me put this, I'm super excited about New York. I fucked up leaving. I'd love to be in New York right now because I think the city is electric Yeah I don't care that much about basketballically Watched it on TikTok and it was a nice win though. It was a nice win It's great for the city. The city seems like everyone is really unified. It feels very kind of demonstrates the power of sport U feeleels really good. You're there. I am. I'm not gonna to be here.'m I'm going to meet you in Kal, but I'm going early to Paris to with me C Can, whatever. Can. Anyway, That's right We're gonna to be in the south Franceight We are exactly. Are you bringing the kids? Yes, I am the little one's not the big one. Yeah, you gott to learn how to travel. The point of travel is to escape the children No Let me get to the point. The Nicks. So it turns out, I was sitting next to a Nick all day during the Devil Wears Prada thing I didn't recognize Carl Anthony Towns. I was sitting with Mal had no idea He was so sweet when he was being interviewed. They're usually pretty easy to spot, especially in contrast to Karawish. No, but you don't, I guess, but I just don't like I just didn't know. I knew he was a sports figure. anyyway He was sitting next to me all day. I look like such an idiot. but he was so they were also good. I don't usually watch basketball, but I have to say of all of them, I like basketball the best if I have to watch. I thought it was very heartening.body everyone watching it from the streets. Just New York really, makes me want to live here now. I have to say, I shouldn't say that too loudly around Aand. You do live there now I know, but I mean full time. Like I was like, it's such a nice vibe, but New York is such a great vibe. And in a contrast, the UFC really soiled itself with that idiot player saying that terrible thing about Piceello. He's not a player as is a fighter, but yeah fighter, whatever. That was weird No doubt about it. I was unfortunate. Let me lay out what happened. President Trump celebrated his eightieth birthday ringside with this USC Freedom two hundred fifty where fighters compete in front of a crowd of four thousand three hundred with the actual White House is a backdroped as a marketing thing. There's a lot of marketing going on, whether it was Budlight or whatever. Ma had They did something very laudible. They were giving these glasses to blind service members. I think their brand took a hit for being associated with it. Anyway, the guest list reads like a h' hoops with powerower teech and money. Zuckerberg was there who a who is a big fan. And I this is the only thing I genuinely like about him. I'm glad he's committed to that, whatever Joe Rogan was there, as you said, Cabinet secretary Centers. Lindsey Graham looked very happy, surrounded by muscled men Of course, Paramount CEO, David Ellison was in the audience as the event streamed exclusive behind Paramount pllus Paywall. notothing says the people like a Paywall We'll talk about that more in a minute because you know, again, this one fighter grabbed and took this cheap shot at Michelle Obama, which is part of a conspiracy theory among the right. and they think they seem to be obsessed with and the Obamas. Now, UFC CEO Dana White later told Time Magazine, everyveryone knows my position on free speech, but I hate that kind of nonsense. I don't think you need to defend free speech Dana. It's just can't you just say this is like horrible. They always have to find some dumb excuse.'s I think that was a good comment from him. That's the least he can do. But we disagree on this because I actually think, well we're going I think the event was a win for the White House Yeah distinct to that dumb moment, which will get a lot of play. but Um Look, I think that Essentially, just the way Tucker Carlson is trying to shore up the Nick Fuentes mananosphere part of the party. There is still a large segment of America that wants to embrace some form of masculinity and feels like it's been shoved aside And I feel the same way about masculinity that David Trum feels about the border. and that is if progressives don't enforce the border, fascists will And if Democrats can't come up with some sort of symbolism or role models that demonstrate strength and service as masculinity, then the Rublicans are fill that hole with violence and misogyny, which is exactly what they're doing And unfortunately, it not only highlights this performative weird dominant misogynistic form of masculinity that is just in my opinion, absolutely the terrible role model for young men It highlights to me that Democrats haven't been able to identify anything around an aspirational viewpoint around masculinity. I'm going to push back. Trump is down ten percent among young men over the past few months.s they're way down Not because of this event. No, I'm just saying, it's just, I think this version of masculinity. You know what a better version, were're the Kns the way they were and Im not I'm taking away the owner who don't particular like But I thought they display, you know, a lot of like a support of women. If you notice there was a lot of mothers, there was a lot of sisters, there was a lot ofade. They always talk about, you know, the guy, the main guy Brunson was, you know, he gave up a big pile of money to have other people on the team included arl He wants a ring. He wants a ring. He wants a ring, of course, but it's like it just shows like the difference of the watch ies was really raignificant. And so if you want a version of masculinity, that's a version of masculinity that is very sporty, very masculine. It did a lot to heal the male loneliness epidemic. Have you seen people out in the street like that? Men out in the street like that? abbsolutely love it Yeah. I don't think there's any there's any way to not highlight the Kicks, their players New York What have you Um, Again, look, I think that event and the pageantry and the flyover, and there's a large segment of America that likes that stuff. I like a fly over, by the way. I didn't I'm not saying I don't like a flyower. I think the I think there are ways into this that are very, very clear that you can support things. I think it's heres this is Monica Has in the Washington of Post. I think she did a great job And she also is a big supporter of MMA, by the way. She likes it. The problem isn't the fighting on the lawn. People who love the UFC have had to sit through decades of presidents inviting poets and cellists and oer singers to the White House. and the turnabout is fair play. The problem with Sunday's broadcast wasn't the fighting. The problem was the tooneally incoherent emulsion of patriotism and bloodlust history and by this crap, an event happening for the people, but tucked behind a paramount paywall. I think that exactly that's what it felt like. It felt like, and by the way, all the cheap seats, they were stuck in that one area of they weren't at the White House which was this is what she also wrote. What do we make of this other than this is America? Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses advertising bud lightight and trucks in loud we trusts. Bring me your ring girls dressed skimpily in sequin stars and stripes and your men with cauliflower ears and a bunch of sailors dancing to YMCA. I just there was such an I don't know, I do contrast these things. I also contrast the World Cup. which looks wonderful and diverse and interesting. and the crowds are, I don't know, it's just there is a way to appeal. and I think Democrats should embrace it, but this was grotesque. And got the center of attention will be this idiot, this idiot who's had his head hit too many times making an incredibly misogynistic, it's racist, it's anti. It's just like gross and no but no man doing anything. That's what it is. That's what it is. Yeah, look her her comments, her assessment is really U I don't know. the reporter's commentary is really, really impressive. And I do agree the World Cup and the Kicks are better. Look at the end of the day, just politically Kara It was a total distraction and occupied the news cycle from the fact that we have a shitty memo of understanding on something actually a lot more important. We will get to that. So just from just from a distraction standpoint. It was, I think it was a wimp. If they hadn't had that event The media would have been much more focused on something that has much larger implications from the world, and that is Donald Trump walked into you know a car dealership demanding a Ferrari and is leaving with a camerry because he's figured out he has bad credit that he's overpaying for. Yeah' holding the m At a minimum, and it probably wasn't strategic planning the timing, but I think anything that distracts from this meo E if it's even if it's a terrible statement I get it, I get it. Well, we've got a lot to do. We're going to talk about that. The Trump administration, by the way, is fighting with anthropic again, and SpaceX, of course, went public. That seems like one hundred years ago. But you know speaking of paramount got justice Department approval, the merger is just key hurdle. The DAJ says its review found the roughly one hundred ten billion dollars deal is unlikely to harm competition for conser or consumers removing a major federal obstacle. The deal isn't done yet though. The state attorney general, including Californans, are still reviewing the transaction and could challenge it David Ellison said the merger remains on track to close by September. He's got to because after that so called ticking fee would kick in, making the acquisition more expensive, European regulators are still weighing approval. What's interesting to me is that the Justice Department apparently shut down its investigation into Paramount's bid to buy Warner Brothers before career staffers even had a chance to weigh in And those lawyers weren't just skeptical of the deal, they were actually leaning towards recommending the DOJ sue to block it, arguing that combining two of Hollywood's biggest studios would be bad for competition. the Ellisons and Trump, the fix, apparently, was in. I think we'll get to the Roku deal, which actually Fox just bought Roku, but these mergers are just coming fast and furious. And I think no one was surprised by this. It's a question of if the states or the European Union can slow this thing down. you were concerned with Netscape with higher prices. How do you feel Nls with our prices. Yeah, the reality is if the economists I talk to say that it's hard to It's hard to say these guys have a monopoly. When you look at the fact that the combined viewership still won't rival U YouTube when you look at the revenue, it's nowhere near what the revenue is for, you know, the media companies, the tech media companies we talk about So you can accuse him of overpaying. I had chren down my spine over the weekend when I read that Mark Thompson is being considered as kind of the manager they need to come in for CBS newews. the only one Actually the others who they mentioned said, go ahead. but It just all of a sudden it sound it chill down my mat. I'm like, what the Ellison's own CNN? It' like it hadn't fully downfully dwned on me But from a street. From a straight regulatory standpoint Yeah there was really no, in my opinion, valid reason to block it. And by the way, I've switched on that. I was worried about the consolidation of media, but when you include competitors around watch time, revenues There wasnt there really wasn't an economic argument. Now in terms of mergers You're going to see a flurry of them because Anyone who's thinking Maybe we'd like to buy companies. they're like, let's do it while the Doing is good Because if you get a Democratic administration in there, you're going to have much more scrutiny around these murders And I mean, you already see it. you already see You already see attorney generals AG's in bllue states getting much more excised about this merger than the federal guys, but it's going through and it'll be really interesting to see What kind of the first moves are or ramifications of this consolidated company? They've got that debt to deal with because you know, I've just recently interviewed a whole bunch of big media companany, just at that media people and they're all like, this debt is fucking ridiculous. Most of them are very much focused on the debt and the math of the situation. I think they'll have to make enormous cuts. And you know a lot of the rest beingaking of distraction, a lot of the rest, it's a distraction With the CNN thing, well, you know my feelings on that. I'm leaving as soon as I can. So you're out. you're out of CNN. Yes, yes. You've been trying to talk me into doing shit at CN for That was before. You're not listening to me. Do Do you invest in our relationship? I've been saying it publicly for? Well, why that's why lesbians have the highest rates of divorce because both of them are listening It's important that in a relationship that the man not listen a lot. That's key to the survival I key to the survival of our relationship is a lot of shit just runs right right over my head. Let me try to outline it. I don't want to work for the Ellisants and I don't want to work for their handpicked minions because I think they're incompetent. That is what I've said over and over again. And I like I love working with the people at CN and I very much like Mark Thompson, and I hope they put him in charge because smart gu. I think he would do a great job. I just don't see any way that these people make good decisions and I don't trust them. That's it. just I just don't I don't want to I don't want to work protch people. You know, they're more than they can, you know, I don't know there's there's just I'm just not sayaying. there's lots of places to. I don't Like you, I think TV's great, but it's not that great like to put up with this shit. Like don't that's one thing. I like, you know, I like making that series. I just, you know, I don't except if I owned it. If they want to buy it, they can buy shit off of me if they feel like it. But other but I don't want to be I don't want them to own something. You think see, I would argue for Karis Swisher, if they gave you an agreement. to work at CNN and said, you know, look, we're just these this is the editor. This is who's in charge of your stories Why wouldn't you You don't think you'd be able to fashion an agreement? I don't think they would do that. I don't think they would do that. Like they would pay me every time person I don't like talks to me, I guess No, at this moment, no, not the way they're behaving right now. and this, by the way, this whole like Wellulla Leslie Stahall demand to stay because he'll protect CNN from these evil. I am not I don't think I have that power to do it. Anyway, there's lots of other options and I'm under contract with them until the end of the year and I'm hoping they'll let me out early because I don't want them Affiliate with them. that's all. I I left Murdoch too. It's not this is not a new fresh thing for Cara Swisher to flounce out and do better No one cares, but it says something. I just want everyone to know I'm absolutely a whore. an expensive whore. So Ellison, you have my number. Oh, o, I heard about that. Let's not get into that issue. You You have my number. Yeah, they called you. I know that. I was defending you on that. by the way. I appreciate that. They had your number. You, we don't need TV at this point, honestly. We are TV. with much better economics It's it's like a headache and then I have to see them. Anyway, let's go on a quick break. when we come back, Fox is buying Roku Support for today's show comes from ATIO, the AI CRM. Every business has a CRM horror story. 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Ai slash pivot built for every industry, ready for every boardroom, netsite. Ai slash pivot. Scott we're back spepeaking of this, Fox Corporation is buying Roku in a twenty two billion dollars deal that could reshape how Americans watch TV. It's a big play for advertising based television. just you know Fox gets access to over one hundred million households worldwide. Lots of people use this combining its live news, sports, and Tubi streaming service with Roku's massive platform. The combined company would become the third largest player in US television by share of viewing, putting real pressure on the likes of YouTube and Netflix. Roku will operate under the Fox umbrella with Roku founder Anthony Wood, who's a really interesting person joining Fox's board in a subordinate role. That's interesting. Fox's shareholders own about seventy three percent of the combined companies with Roku shareholders holding the remaining twenty seven. And the deal still needs to sign off for both shareholder groups and regulators. It's interesting because they deliver all the networks into living rooms, you know,'re like it's almost like a cable company in a weird way I use I think I'm using my rgcoon in Brooklyn, like because I didn't want to get the cable bundle or something like that I haven't hooked it up yet, but I've always liked Roku. I don't use it that much, but thought I thought Anthony did a nice job And I'm just curious, you know, he can't get any bigger, presumably is why he's selling. I think it's a great move. Yeah. It something I didn't see coming in the moment looked at it, I'm like, this makes all sorts of industrial logic. Who else could have bought Roku just before you move on from that? Who else? Well, there's the obvious like there's the obvious Warner Brothers Paramount. Yeah Um, Disney um I mean this isn't they have assets that are that are incredibly important. They have I mean they have a ton of first party data. They They have F first Friday data across one hundred million households, which is a really strategic asset It gives Fox a direct viewer relationship that cable and broadcast never offered advertisers, right because you have the cable company in the way U Foxes projects four hundred million in run rate cost synergies. They needed this. They needed this. It's a really savvy bold move. It is. I thought, Ohh my God, M makes a lot of sense. Yeah. What's interesting is they actually sold their shares in Roku at fifty eight bucks a share to fund their acquisition of Tubi and now they're buying back in atll one hundred sixty Foxle own roughly seventy three percent of the combined company No, no, no, but wait I just said they hadn't had shares before? Yeah. so my understanding is that Fox actually, they had Roquu shares in March of twenty twenty and they sold them at fifty eight bucks a share. to fund their half a billion dollar to be acquisition. Yeah which has been very helpful to them. So look, this is a company that's making a big bold bet recognizing their core business is in structural decline I think it's really I think the folks at Fox are really smart. Yeah, this is a smart move. I thought that I'm like, huh. But it is a big bet on advertising based versions of this, right? Be Roku is advertising based and it's not subscription based. But here's the thing, if you look at the trends, Subbscription has been eating into Subcription streaming has been eating into linear advertising supported TV for the last twenty years In twenty twenty four It's stopped gaining share It's like fifty fifty right now so I mean, for example, I don't know if our listeners know this They can watch pivot or prop markets on Roku It's available. We have a channel on Roku Um, uh and it it gets huge huge viewership. Is it a significant Revenue generator. Their total revenueues is around four point seven billion for you Oh no, it's it's we launched two months ago, but my attitude is if you look at enterprise value just and I'm trying to be transparent about what we're trying to build the property markets and where we're trying to build a pivot If you're the way you increase enterprise value and increase the multiple on your EBITDA is one by right now adding subscription revenue, which we're doing on Sstack and two having alternative distribution in different differentiating your media mix or your revenue mix So what starts small, I think we will do you know, one hundred or three hundred grand in revenue from Roku or advertising on Roku by serving all of our odds on Roku But what you want is when if you ultimately are think about enterprise value It's a multiple of your profits and your growth But what increases the multiple is how enduring that revenue is I as much subscription revenue as possible. and also a diversified set of revenue streams. Right. So my attitude is while it's been an effort to reform out our content and put it on Roku It's absolutely worth it because what you want to say to a potential investor or acquirer is look at all these different points of distribution and types of revenue mix to create a more, you know, a more enduring, a more enduring company. But just to get back to Roku four point seven billion in total net revenue up fifteen percent year over year pllatform revenue of four point one billion, that's up eighteen percent. Gross profit of two billion up fifteen percent lastast year was their first GAAP profitable year The company reported negative income of eighty million in Q four al loan. So it's kind of hit that Tipping point. Yeah. and again, sustainable Over a hundred million Households have Roku at the end of twenty twenty five And device hardware still runs at negative gross margin, but they sell hardware at to loss to capture platform users. I would argue that Roku is arguably The most important media company that people have never heard of. Now let me just point to another person Angeulie Sud, a young woman, chief executive officer Tubi. This is the free ad supported streaming service they have. And she was the previous CEO of Vimeo, but she's expanded the user base, I think it's one hundred million users, and it's the most watch free streaming service It's very quirky and you can find all manner of stuff on there. But I think the two of them are very savvy. They're both incredibly smart. L that's the thing. And I think one of the things Lachlam Murdoch, I just think was born into his job, but these are two one of the things I just interviewed Peter Turnan for my podcast today, another smart Formmer Fox executives, O one thing that Rupert's been good at is executives. L they're very sharp and you should listen to the Curnin one because I think it was a great interview. but you know just really smart executives, and this is the case. anyyway, very smart. You can also, by the way, watch us on YouTube. by the way, we're very promiscuous the entire Scott and care are very promiscuous Anyway, let's move on to the other one. We like this deal. SpaceX, of course, seems like one hundred years ago, officially public. and as one Scott Gallowy predicted, it did indeed close up on its first day of trading, and you had said it was going to be about twenty percent and not more, which is interesting. It was a nineteen point something percent. shhares are at a high of one hundred seventy seven at the time this taping after the company's public debut on Friday making the current Market cap two point three two trillion. You thought it might be a scooch under two. his first day on the market over five hundred million shares traded hands, a lot of movement here. Elon himself, of course crossed the milestone thanks to the pop becoming the world's first trillionaire. There were some notable buyers, Gina Reinhardt, Australia's richest person, bought over a billion dollars stake in the company and Kathy Wood's Arc investment bought more than five hundred million dollars worth the stock So go through if there's anything surprising there because venture and also venture funding for US space technology firms excluding SpaceX Jumpps seven point five billion dollars in twenty twenty five from two point five billion do in the previous years probably We'll see if that goes anywhere because it's also a money it can be a money furnace as you the word you use, but any thoughts on where it is right now? So I thought that the bankers And and Musk and L I think the most significant thing here is that this we've never seen such engineered manufactured scarcity. There was tens of billions of dollars of demand for this IPO that has never existed for an IPO before And then you combine it with the fact that Unlike other IPOs that went public on the NSDAQ, it didn't have to float more than ten percent. It only floated five percent. Yeah Very scarcity as you said. So you've just created manufacturer scarcity. Now, to be fair It's up again today So this has created a level of excitement in the market. I do think you have to highlight the positives here and that is I never want to be someone that demonizes success There are fourteen new billionaires in Texas that you've never heard of. Those people will give money away. They will start new businesses Something that's uniquely American is that we continue to produce companies like this and entrepreneurs like Elon Musk, it's going to create a lot of economic growth. You're going to see a surge in philanthropy from Berkeley to the University of Texas It inspires a lot of people. It is There's a lot of positives here, and we're seeing venture funding increasing in, you know, space related, um projects So there's a lot to like here. You know, I don't like the manufactured scarcity. and the what I'll call the overlying narrative of sort of like the hero's journey here. And the numbers at certain businesses are not great. Yeah. look this from a evaluation standpoint and this is this is what Musk has always been able to do is to create this narrative over numbers that's like no one else in history. Um So but right now the stock is trading thirty percent above the IPO price. Um, and then he has Also, again, and I go back to governance all these different lockups. like if you trade on a certain platform and you bought shares through a direct share purchase on a certain platform technically don't have a lock upp But If they sell their shares, they can't trade on the platform before, which is like a soft lock up There's certain criteria around when you can sell if the stock is up a certain amount, et cetera. To be fair, Elon's locked himself up I doubt he's planning to sell, he' just borrow against his stock. But what they've effectively done what you're not supposed to do is they've created different class classes of shares, which you're not supposed to do So again, I find that This is This is really inspiring and important and going to be great for economic growth on certain levels I also believe that this entire sector is going to have not a collapse, but a pretty serious drawdown when people after two or three earnings calls are forced to justify anything resembling a future that involves the kind of earnings built into this thing. Right. And then the rush to space technology firms, same thing. they're going to over invvest, which is normal, like I would assume, presumably. And and quite frankly, that's one of the great things about America because we over invvested in the internet and the technology survived and a lot of those companies came back and that investment was good, but you didn't want to be One of the one of the investors over investing initially. com Yeah. Yeah, so But I said somebody called me and I said this on pivot. Someone called me and said, I have allocation. shouldhould I take it? And I said, take it and trade out on the first trade. Although if you buy it and trade out, you't do as most people don't do as well, except in certain cases, right? There were all these like really interesting statistics of buying and selling U that were not good in the long run over time. It's just you've got to hit the exact right one. or you lose money most of the time. This was different because so first off trading out Trading out, you get short term capital gains at a higher rate. So there's a lot of evidence that shows that just generally with investing you're better off just buying and trying to never sell. It's just Trading Trading is a difficult is a difficult game I thought, and I said this, I said, they are going to manufacture a twenty percent pop. The bankers And everyone are figuring out a way to create a supply demand imbalance that will exactly peg this at a twenty percent pop. What's impressive and punctures that theory is that it's up another eleven percent today. And the thing that Also just the thing that deserves a nod is the best VC in the world is not Andreresan Horrowitz or whoever initially funded SpaceX TL founders. It's in my opinion, it's Uncle Sam and that SpaceX investors and the banks taking SpaceX public should remember that we would not be here today without grants from the federal government. In two thousand eight, SpaceX was on the verge of bankruptcy and would likely have run out of money if not for a grant from NASA And the golden law S with Tesla. And then the golden laaw of stupidity here, Trump is trying to cut NASA's funding by more than twenty percent this year. Same with MRNA technology, same with the government is one of the greatest investors of all time. if you could think about it that way. Best VC in history, whether it's medical research for our universities or electric charging stations what what you know, and they would argue back, well, they're going to get their bite. they're going to get enormous return through tax revenues The big debate this week. will stir is In America, we've been talking about for decades now. What's dominated the conversation is how you create wealth The conversation that is superseding that is what you should do with wealth Once you have it And so right now, Elon Musk could buy all of Manhattan, every building, every condo, every park with his That's how much money he has right now and whether or not this level of cononcentration of power. which comes in a capitalist society for money presents risk. And I'm of the mind that I think it's important that eventually and I'm in favor of a of eventually having triillionaires But we should have guardrails over the power in progressive taxation, which we don't have right now. Can I just say one thing Im to push back on and that you've created all these rich people are going to give to charity. If you look at the statistics, I don't think they're going to be charitable. I don't think they're going to do good things. I just don't. I don't think this class, I don't think Elon Musk has had a very good record. So I just I'm not expecting these people to be. I think they're going to be on an ongoing quest for more money and more power and more consolidation So I'm not impressed with their charitable thoughts. And I'm glad they're creating jobs, but They would immediately cut you if they had to. That's I just don't think they have that. You're talking about, okay, but I think we need to pse that and that is If you look at billionaires and their wives, the wives have hands down been more philanthropic. And it doesn't and the quote unquote, billionaire masters of the universe have not acquitted themselves well on a lot of levels But there's just no doubt this type of wealth creation event is going to result in a surge in philanthropy. It just does. Hopefully. because that would be great. You're gonna to have a lot of people who wake up and have twenty million dollars and think I'm going to give two million bucks to the local food bank or I'm going to give fifty thousand bucks. talk to You know, I'm involved with the University of California. They're all revising their giving goals up for next year because of the IPOs coming down and they have so many alumni I'm not talking about Elon Musk, I think it would be You could you could make a credible argument that he's not the most philanthropic person. I get that And you can definitely make an argument that Mackenzie Scott and Melinda French Gates are more philanthropic than their husbands But when you see these types of liquidity events, local philanthropies surge in terms of That would be great in terms of money. Look, there's for all of SpaceX's problems and income inequality, there isn't a nation on Eth that wouldn't kill to have those problems. I would agree. I just think it's going to go into political activism in a way that could be deleterious to most of us. Oh, That's where it's going. It's not going to help in a g. Let's be clear Elon Musk in my view, can probably decide who the next president is. Yeah if that's correct. Yeah he spent two hundred fifty million dollars and had influence on the election. Maybe he didn't decide it But he had influence on it. What happens if he decides to put two and a half percent of his net worth or twenty five billion or a hundred times What he spent Last time and he's a f train. And also to be to be fair, are we comfortable And he deserves credit. One of the one of the things that doesn't get he doesn't get enough credit for is he has turned off Starlink for Russia And it has put Russia at a severe disadvantage to Ukraine. And I think that is a wonderful thing and he deserves credit for it. Having said that Ecept if tomorrow, he changes his mind. Well, That's exactly right. having said that is should that power reside in a private citizen that has no government or electoral oversight But The Look, it's a ton of economic growth. The banks made a shit ton of money You have a lot of people four thousand people became millionaires on Friday. I get it. I hope they're better I just think'm not even Musk is one thing, but I'm worried about others that aren't quite so broad. I just like I always whenever I see a box, I think the Ues, the UL INE, I don't know how to pronounce it, but they're like huge givers to crazy right wing causes I just am like, oh God, the boxes, they this, that. Anyway, I just hope that they that a problem. Yeah. I hope that they're charitable. that's what I hope. Anyway. let's go on a quick break and We come back. We'll talk about the Trump administration coming for anthropic yet again Be for the show comes from Vanguard to all the financial advisors listening, let's talk bonds for a minute. Capturing value and fixed income is not easy. Bond markets are massive, murky, and let's be real. Lots of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day. But not Vanguard Vanguard bonds are institutional quality. Institutional quality isn't a tagline, it's a commitment to your clients. It means top grade products across the board. The lineup includes over eighty bond funds. 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My wake up call, when I looked at the dashboard of Delete Me and saw how much crap was out there about me and a lot of my personal information all collected in really strange and weird ways by a lot of companies, I had no idea who they were and made me feel like that I was being stalped.covered A lot of inaccuracies also at the same time, and I found an enormous amount of information about my life for dozens of years. So if you've ever thought I should really be doing something to protect myself from stalkers, scammers and hackers, but you're not sure what, hereere's what you do. Go to join deeleteme dot com slash pivot and enter the code pivot, you get twenty percent off DeleteMe. DeleteMe removes your personal information that's being sold online You can get an individual plan for a little over eight dollars per month with an annual plan, and discounts get even better with a two year plan or whenever you enroll your partner or family. 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So why not you Try Odoo for free at odoo. com That's O d oo d. com Scott, we're back with more news. Anthropic had ninety minutes to take down its most powerful models, Metos and Fable, which is Mos, but theublic version of it. onn Friday at the request of the government who cited a national security threat, the Trump administration issued an order barring all foreign nationals from having access, including Anthropic's own non US employees, including a lot of them at the top, essentially forcing the company to take it offline The decision was probably made after a conversation with Amazon's Andy Jassy who told officials, researchers and his company got fable to provide information to be used in cyber attacks. Anthropic went sent staff to Washington meet with the White House official to try to fix the dispute. I'm sorry, I just think they're waiting for an excuse here to get anthropic. I think maybe Jassie might have said this, but they minute they could, they jumped on anthropic. And of course, Anthropic' making the argument that every other model can do this too. And they're just cherry picking. the way The company is also being sued for its two hundred dollars a month AI plans with consumers alleging it oversold the usage allowances it offered. So that's that. And then by the way, a coalition of state's attorney generals have opened an investigation into open AI. The company was served with a subpoena seeking documents related to its activities and impact on users, including activity related to minors And seniors handling of health data and company policies earer this month, Florida became the first state to file a lawsuit against Open AI and Sam Altman alleging the two knowingly released an unsafe product. That's an interesting. That's a separate thing, but this anthropic attack by the White House is really interesting. Of course, they were just waiting for something to come at them as usual, David Sachs just lies in wait. Yeah the I had mixed emotions here because I think it's a good thing I'd like to thank that the government's involvement and acting crisply around the threats of AI is overdue. So I applaud the government moving in crisply and saying We need to shut this down until we understand it better. I applaud that the problem is I don't trust these people. I don't know what their motivations are. I don't know if they're geninely concerned about the well being the of society or if this is just politically motivated trying to shut down one company because you have political donors at the other. And supposedly I just got off I just had Ian Bremmer on the pod talalking about Iran. He said at the G seven meeting The shutdown of anthropic was a bigger topic than the memo of understanding in Iran because If you're a foreign company and you've deeply integrated anthropic into your workflow and all of a sudden it's turned off you know, it's like, okay, does this mean the government has a kill switch for AI that when whoever it is is angry at them justust turns it off. So this is Again, this all comes down to the same fucking thing You don't trust these people. And why isn't there a congressional like that everybody has to live by it? Whaty does Andy have a conversation? I'd like to hear from Andy fucking Jassie right now. What did he say?y is he like why did he they're an investor anthropic, by the way. So I'm not sure I trust that story I don't even know if I trust the Jassie part of the story. I'd like him to speak out publicly about it. But yeah, I agree. I don't trust these fuckers and I think they're doing it to kneecap Dario because he's been a nuisance for that. Yeah, he's not their chosen He's the one that said no on self healing or, you know on weapons or privacy violations. So he's on their shit list And I love the idea, but Dario and Anthropic would say perhaps correctly that these same jail brereaks are things that the reason why they shut down are available on other models. Again, they're not a perfect company. I get that they bring sued for over allowances. I just think there's going to be They are in the front and they are not going along with his administration. so you're going to see all manner of nonsense attacking them. And some of it, you know, you know, I don't think they're perfect. I don't think, you know, I think he can be a little bit, you know righteous, but at least it's righteous for the right things on some level. And I just think this is as I said, this is not about national security. this is about a beef and a rumble between different Silicon Valley interests, that it seems to be. We need We need a panel or a regulatory body It's bipartisan but experts, economists, philosophers who say Okay, maybe it shouldn't take ten years to release an AI model for the public, similar to the way it does for drugs But we need thirty days in an institution or an agency represented by briefs Congress that says, okay, before you release anything, it's got to go through this thirty, sixty, ninety day screening where we bang the shit out of it. and everyone is subject to the same regulatory approval And that kind of regulatory certainty is good for the economy. It's good for companies. They want to know what rules they're playing by. They don't want to have to think, Jesus Christ, I gott to go to a fucking UFC fight or fear that They're going to turn off my you know, my next version of this product. But supposedly it's created chaos abroad because a lot of companies sure is. Yeah. And even deffense departments and NATO members decide to use anthropic into their scenario planning or to figure out when to turn off and on power that runs into hospitals. and all of a sudden they've got to go, okay, you mean one One guy based on criteria we can't figure out has, again, a kill switch on an important technology in there to me, if you read Davis 's stupid excuses, he's such a pompous ass. and I just trust none of this. They do not care about all of us. They care about this Silicon Valley beep and you can feel like The hand of others here.'s just you don't trust them. Like you said, I think you put your nose on it. Now what's more serious of these lawsuits, you know in terms of how good their product is and whether it's accurate or not. just that's to me where some of the real issues are going to come with all these companies, all the social media companies, everybody else, it's impact, whether it's data centers or miners or bad health stuff or bad data, products is actually where I think the action is. This is also I think this is headed one way and that is You'll, you know probably result in the administration putting all sorts of restrictions on Chinese open weight models trying to come into the U. S and disrupt what is becoming an increasingly difficult case to justify the ROI on these token expenditures And so this is this is this is again, going to take on its own sort of terraf feel and geopolit. It helps a company like Mstrel out of France who is not subject to the same things, although supposedly that's inferior technology. I'll be very cur. I wouldn't be surprised at all if all of a sudden Trump decides these Chinese that American firms can't use these open weight models coming out of China But this is the next big political football, I think, is who and how gets to use American AI firms and what AI what AI models are allowed into the U.S? I do think these safety things are building with parents and everyone else. I just do. I think that as you said, the brand AI has gotten so many hits. it's almost like this idiot who got hit in the head and said racist and misogynistic things at the UFC fight. It just is getting it is getting a bad rep and there's going to be legal implications, I think, because I think people are upset and angry. And it's not as Mr. Wonderful says about his data centers the Chinese fault. It's your own All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails The US and Iran say they've agreed on terms to end the war and reopen the strait of Hormuz. Do You already see oil prices from a high of one hundred twenty six dollars a barrel down to about eighty dollars a barrel today? That's a lot of progress. The war, of course, drove up the price of gas and other essentials, and has led to some ugly polling for President Trump sixixty one percent of adults polled by NPRPBS E Marist disapprove of his handling of the economy. His handling in a certain light makes sense. His priority was preventing Iran from getting nukes, but Trump's messaging was unusual, unusual for a president. Last month, a reporter asked Trump, to what extent was he thinking about Americans' finances when he negotiated with Iran? I don't think about American financial situations. I don't think about anybody. I think about What's he doing? coming up on today exxplained from Vox Aome Pker has blown up in recent years. After the twenty twenty four election, the popular leftist Twitch streamer became a go to voice for the Democratic partarty's butt Piker's Glow U has angered a section of Democrats who are growing louder in voice. Hashan Piker is anti American. He is bigoted, he's anti Semitic, and he is deeply misogynistic. So in March, a Democratic group called Third Way published an op in the Wall Street Journal's opinion section, saying, quote, Democrats are too cozy with Hassam Piker. He is such an extremist that it will only do damage to Democrats and hurt their chances of beating right wing populism Piker is controversial, no doubt. But is he toxic? I don't think this helps Republicans at all. I think as a matter of fact, third w brand of politics has helped Republicans Their attitude has been to constantly concede on culture or issues of the Republican Party and never focus on economic populism. I'm Estet Herringon, and this is America Act Re. Catch us every Saturday on YouTube or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Seth Matlins. My new show, Creator Destroy reimagining Marketing explores how every decision a company makes, not just the marketing ones, but the HR, IR, pricing, or design and planning ones, the ones most don't consider marketing at all, contribute to either creating value or destroying it Each week I sit down with CMOs, CEOs, founders, cultural thinkers, the people building, breaking and reimagining how businesses grow or don't for conversations about what creates value and what destroys it It's a business show, it's a marketing show. Creator destroys the show that argues, they've always been the same thing Fox Media Podcast Network and the Wisdom is C New episodes drop weekly on YouTube and your favorite podcast app Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Would you like me to go first? You have first, Kara. This I'm going to do a win and a fail together because one of the things around this UFC thing is Meda' used the opportunity to do PR for itself, which fine, I don't really care, around this giving blind veterans these glasses, right? These glasses that help them navigate I think this is a great thing. I don't care if it's a PR thing. I don't care any manner of it. I do think I know and the manand it was actually telling me is this is really helpful for people who have disabilities like blindness, these glasses. I think all of them, not just metas, but everybody, not these Raybam ones, but I suspect Aapple will have a lot of utility for people who are blind. I think it's very exciting. And I think it's a good thing Look, I don't mind if you use PR for doing that. I get it and it's fine and it helps people. and I I give it law. This was an effort pushed by Dina Powell, who they just hired and good effort. And they should do a lot of these things. nonpartisan would be great. They don't have to just mob up with Trump all the time, They should go with everybody to do these things to help people. And again, I don't care if they get a PRin off of it. That's fine by me. What I think is that them being doing it during this UFC fight took the focus off the veterans. in that way. You know what I mean? Because it just is like Oh, God, didn't you expect that something terrible would happen here. And so as I said I really do adm my remarks like of MMA. It's kind of like one of the most human things about him. But but it just was like, here's something that's for good. And then you get this this idiots say something and create all manner of problems for them. So it was a good attempt and then it got drowned out. something good got drowned out. And again, I don't even mind if you trot Ivanka Trump out. I I don't love it, but whatever for these kind of things. But if it helps these veterans, a good thing, I just think it got in the way of what the veans they were trying to do for veterans, which I think is a real thing But they should do a lot more nonpartisan things that helps the rest of us. But any, you know, as they say, anything Trump touches turns to shit. And that's I felt that my dads was a veteran. I have a lot of family members who are veterans. I wanted to be a veteran. As I always say, I would have been being I would have been an admiral about to be fired by Trump right now that if I had had my career choice But it was I really felt bad that this was got sucked up into this ridiculous nonsense at the White House with UFC. Iust the vision of you being an admiral. I don't It would be an excellent admiral Yeah I would y the way, Dana White'es on the board of Ma two, just so you're aware. That's win and fail because I was like, o, here's something good And here it got sllied and the story as usual went off to another way. And I don't blame the media for it. I don't blame this guy said something so terrible and grotesque at the White House. This is where this woman used to live, you fuckers off I and say you sorry sayay you're fucking sorry for that piece of shit Um Okay my win here is the social media band in the UK. just Britain just announced the world's strictest teen social media law going further than Australia, the country that inspired all of this Prime Minister Kir Starmer announced Monday that TikTok, Instram YouTube, Snapchat, Facebook, and AX will be banned from offering services to under sixteen. As someone who has a fifteen year old in the house, I can tell you that I think the most negative anxiety inducing thing in our household is our fifteen year olds usage of social media And people say, well, that's a parenting thing. No they pay for the tube with their phone. If you tell them not to use social media, they're isolated from their friends and become more depressed This needs to be a collective ban, and that's what the prrime mininister here did. There is no reason No justification for anyone under the age of sixteen being on any social media platform Some people will say, what about YouTube? fine, put out a kid's. ut out a kids version of YouTube, I'm down with that But this goes into effect in spring of twenty twenty seven. Um, overnight, it Curfews and infinite scrol limits under consideration or excuse me, overnight curfews and infinite scquirrel limits are under consideration. Liability falls on platforms, not on children or parents It's consistent with Australia's approach, which finds companies up to fifty million for nonc comppliance. It needs to be a percentage of revenues, I would argue And then Britain's existing online saafety Act is already cut, visits porn sites by a third and raise the share of children encountering age checks online from thirty percent to forty seven percent. S Spain, Greece, Slovenia and France are already pursuing similar bans And Australia's twenty twenty december twenty twenty five laws officially triggered a global cascade. And a study of eighteen to twenty four year olds found out they're not using social media for one week. significantly redued symptoms of anxiety by sixteen percent, depression by twenty five percent and insomnia by fifteen percent. This isn't just a win for teen mental health. This is this is a win for democracy. The more time you spend on social media the less you believe in democracy. know, can I one thing you point. If they had gone and tried to make a safe product Like that's, you know what they're going to do? They're going to say, it's not going to work in Australia. It's not going to work. That's their argument. It's never about the thing It's never about that this is delelearies. And by the way, speaking of which that movie's coming out, the social reckoning, which is part two of the social network Jeremy Strong from from suuccession is playing Mark Zuckerberg as I noted last week Why do they never talk about the thing? They just say how it doesn't work and how it does this and this and that. But they never want to talk about the thing, which is are you hurting people with your unsafe products? Yeah, but again, I don't think we should fall into the trap of believing that The owners of McDonald's or Ford are going to figure out are going to focus on anything other than what car do Americans want to drive What's the design? and we don't give a shit that it gives you diabetes. We just want basically a food orgasm in your mouth. It's up to us as voters and we have done this to implement to appoint really smart people who decided to devote their lives to government and regulatory concerns to protect the well being of the Commonwealth If we're waiting on these companies to start thinking about the safety and harms of their product, good fucking luck. True, but look at the costs we've paid for obesity and fat like why do we keep doing this to ourselves? That's the thing. I agree. But when you say we doing it to ourselves, the voters. The capitalist system is Companies are rapacious. engage in full body contact violence, not worried about other people, worried about gettinget a product the commands margin And quite frankly, that works as long as you have regulatory bodies ensuring that opiates don't Got you know, small towns in Appalachia, But again asking We can ask the question, we can all hope for A guy who's in charge of AI with hush tones who just adopted a baby boy and He's concerned about AI and this really attractive woman who says, we need to do better and we are open to regulation. They're all fucking whores And we have built a whorehouse and the whorehouse works But you have to have a cop. Can I quote you on that? We have built a wholeorehouse and the wholeorehouse works. Go ahead. The whole house works That's a's book The Whorehouse worksook. Well, it's funny I was in a wedding in Amsterdam and the roosewood there used to be an orphanage and then a whorehouse. and I thought, well, that's a pipeline. U Oh my Godd, I can't believe you just said. Anyway. I think I know that point but I get mad at us. They're doing their job And we keep we keep trying to shame them into thinking about the safety of their product. You're right. You don't think you think McDonald's is just going to decide we need to have salads. Is' just a right?emember didn't work Yeah. I mean, anyways, we need We need economic incentives and regulations that punish these people and create disinccentives. I win? Prime Minister Kir Starmer. My fail, I just spent the most wonderful week in Northern Europe. I was in Stockholm. And then I was in Amsterdam And Sweden is growing, it's kind of the non European European country. It's growing two and a half percent It is actually produced, despite having the population of North Carolina, it's produced companies including King Plarna, Spotify, Erickksson. they produce a ton of unicorns. very close. And they have the industrial might or productivity of Germany with some of the innovation of Silicon Valley and and the social policies of Bernie Sanders And then you go to Amsterdam, where they have become kind of the groundzero for data centers in Europe They have ASML. If NvIidIia is the picks and shovels, ASML makes the picks and shovels