Corruption and Democratic Party Agenda

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Right now you can get fifty percent off your new system by visiting simply safe.com slash crooked. That's half off at simply safe.com slash crooked. There's no safe like simply safe. Welcome to Pod Save America, I'm John Favreau. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, we'll talk about Trump trading genocidal threats for a chaotic ceasefire that hasn't changed all that much in Iran. Vance heading to Pakistan for negotiations with an eye on his 2028 politics, the prominent MAGA stars calling for Trump's removal, Republican fears that they've already lost the midterms, DNC drama over Israel, and Melania Trump's bizarre attempt to distance herself from Jeffrey Epstein. What a day. Then Rahm Emanuel stops by the studio to talk with Tommy about Iran, Israel, and his widely rumored presidential ambitions. Quite the show, Dan. Quite the show. Quick reminder for all of you, please consider becoming a crooked media subscriber if you haven't already done so. We don't want you to miss out on any of the great content we're putting out for our friends of the pod. Subscribed of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends. Uh Tommy and I did it this week. It's great. You should check it out. Become a subscriber. We got other subscriber only shows like Polar Coaster. Uh with the the guy right here with me, Dan Pfeiffer. That's me. Virtually at least. Access to all of our excellent sub stack newsletters like Pod Save America open tabs. Add free episodes of all your favorite crooked pods. And you get to feel good about supporting one of the few independent, proudly pro democracy media outlets left in Trump's America. So head to Cricket.com slash friends and subscribe. Alright, let's get to the news. Uh after a week where the president backed off his threat to eradicate an entire civilization based on a last minute ceasefire agreement with Iran. We are basically back to where we were The last time you and I recorded a week ago. The Iranian regime is still in power, still controls the Strait of Hormuz, and still has its nuclear material. War is still raging in the Middle East between Israel and Lebanon. Oil and gas prices are still high, and Trump is still declaring victory while simultaneously threatening more war. Uh, one of his latest posts says that our military is quote looking forward actually to its next conquest. And in the same post, said that if Iran doesn't agree to all his demands, quote, Then the shootin' starts. For some reason shootin' starts is in quotes. Bigger and better and stronger than anyone has ever seen before. Uh, and Dan, while while you might be mocking Trump's decision to pull us all back to pull us all back from the brink of uh catastrophe, like some silly resistance lib. The folks at Fox News know what's up. Democrats are already saying that this is taco. Trump always chickens out. Let me give you another acronym. Nacho. Never avoids confronting hard obstacles. It's a nacho, Dan. It's a nacho. Is it a taco or is it a nacho? No, don't answer that question. How would you assess uh Donald Trump's Diplomatic prowess over the last week? Would you call it a quesadilla, a chimichanga? An enchilada. Anything from the Taco Bell menu. Okay. Supreme Supreme Gordita? Yes. Don't brag about it. That's not here nor there. We have to do that. Yes. Okay. Let's get into the actual questions here. It has not been a stellar thirty six hours or so of diplomacy for Donald Trump, I would say. Um it really hasn't been a very good month, hasn't been a good decade, but I think the Iran war has Brought to bear for the public. Something that we always knew to be true. I think even some of Trump supporters suspect it to be true, but suppressed that, which is that Donald Trump is an erratic, capricious idiot who is so in in so far over his head that he cannot see straight. Just when you go through what is happening here. One day it is we're winning. The next day, uh, we don't need the the straight of Hormuz at all. Then we're gonna blow up we're gonna send a ran to the Stone Ages, we're gonna blow up every bridge and power plant because we need the straight of Hormuz. He agrees to a ceasefire negotiation. He has no idea what's in it. According to the reporting he uh Did not even know that He thought was in it. Turns out it was the at least Israel thought it was not or it wasn't originally and then Bibi Netanyahu got on the uh the red phone he has directly into the White House and had it taken out. Yeah, why would he think it's a ceasefire? He has no idea. He's not steeped in the details. He has no core policy ideas. He doesn't understand how the global oil market works. He doesn't understand what the Shredd of Core moves is. He doesn't understand how uh your enriched uranium matters or where it could be or how it's used. He knows nothing. And it is It's sort of a miracle. That Donald Trump has been president for five years now. And for most of that time he's be able been able to dance through the raindrops of his own incompetence to avoid things like this. Like we always would say, strictly in Trump's first term, he's gonna tweet us into a war, stumble ass backwards into a war. Well, he did that. Yeah. Yes, we can run up the butt. That's the other example. The two times reality. Uh, where he incited a violent riot in the capital, did that, check. Uh yeah, he didn't have he didn't have uh lead us into a dumb war yet, so he's that's he's Yeah, it's just for most of the time Pandemic. And this war aside, for most of the time, particularly Trump's first term. His incompetence didn't end up mattering that much. It just he got very lucky. There weren't a lot of crises. He's the ones he got into, he was able to he stumbled into and was able to stumble out of them quickly. Now he stumbled into something he cannot get out of, and he is just truly the worst person to try to lead us out of this. Also the the Times had a sort of a a tick tock of the thirty six hours when the ceasefire came together. And It was interesting because um and I think this there was this was reported at the time, but Uh when Donald Trump Posted his uh genocidal threat. That a civilization will die tonight. The negotiations had apparently been going Somewhat well. And then when he posted that, the Iranians became so enraged that they broke off the negotiations and the Pakistanis and then ultimately China. Uh had to try to put it all back together last minute. which Donald Trump wanted because John Donald Trump was looking for an exit ramp. Uh because he knew the war was unpopular. So what he thought was going to get a deal by um making a genocidal threat actually almost tanked the entire thing. I am shocked to find out that a threat of genocide did not improve diplomatic prospects. Th yeah, so in that story. It's also funny that story is thirty six hours because, you know, the Times most famous travel feature is thirty six hours in Paris, thirty six hours in New York, and so when you google Donald Trump thirty six hours around You get some strange results. Uh But The in there there is the it's kind of the opening anecdote is Trump is sitting at his desk as the clock is ticking down to his eight PM genocide deadline. And he's looking at pictures and video of Iranian civilians surrounding the bridges and power plants that Trump has promised to bomb. And his basic response seems to be, Well, that'll be Iran's fault. If I have to bomb them and they die. And he was like in a bunch of meetings about other topics, just like bragging about how many bridges and power plants he was ready to bomb that night and destroy. Um, there were there were there had been some reporting too, and I couldn't tell if it was like a negotiating tactic or not. May have been, but that said um That of all his advisors, Donald Trump uh has been the most bloodthirsty of any of them. He's been like the biggest warmonger. Um which is uh Not something that's gonna make me sleep well at night, Dan. Um So there he also did right before we recorded, he was like I I hear that Iran might be charging balls now, on the Strait of Hormuz. They better not be. And it's like wha wh that's been reported for for days now. That was like Again, but part of the agreement was that the IRG C was gonna run the street, so what did you think was gonna happen? And then someone asked you about it yesterday and you said we might Charge tolls as well. You also talked about in a post how it's a great day for world peace after the ceasefire agreement and now everyone's gonna make money. It's gonna be the golden age in the Middle East. Like what he he has does he have no idea what the fuck's going on? Clearly. Wait. No, I yes, you were correct, John. He has no idea what the fuck's going on. Wait till he finds out that one of the ways in which the IRG C is accepting payment is in cryptocurrency and one of the acceptable methods is the uh World Liberty Financial USD one stablecoin. Wait, is that part true? The second part? I have no that that has been reported. That has actually been report that has been reported. I cannot verify that to be the case. But I think it has to be in stablecoins. And that is a stablecoin. Amazing. Amazing. So there's been a lot of stellar reporting in the last week about what's been happening in the White House during this war, uh since You know, we can't trust the public comments of anyone who works in the White House. Uh, Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan had quite a detailed story about the situation rim deliberations that led to war, which apparently included an in person presentation. BB Netany Yahoo. Uh what'd you make of that piece? Like the diplomacy piece, just a wild expose of incompetence. J it seems very clear that Uh, Trump was persuaded to go to war by BB Netanyahu. It seems that Trump gave it very little thought as to what would happen next. Uh he took the word of BB Netanyahu, according to this report. Uh and the Israeli intelligence service like BB is in the sit room and he's h they've handed over the keys to the technology of the sitroom to the Israelis, and so on the screen is uh the Israeli military, the Mossad to walk him through it. And apparently seemed dismissive of the concerns raised by General Dan Kane and others on our side, and took the what the Israelis had to say as uh more accurate or more or better pr more predictive. And whether even though If Trump had half a brain, he'd know that B B has been pushing for this war for Decades. Right. And obviously it's not an unbiased uh presenter of information here. Yeah. What I got from that was, yeah, first of all, stunning that you had a head of state. in the situation room. even an ally like pressing for w making the case for war in the situation room, I don't that has ever happened. Um I don't I certainly don't remember it ever happening. Uh that said, I also, you know, the the Pro Israel folks will say, Well, Donald Trump has agency and he made the decision himself and it wasn't necessarily just B B. And I think the piece bears that out, for sure. Um I think he he B B definitely made the case and definitely influenced him, but I think Donald Trump uh wanted to hear a pro war case from BB Netanyahu. And um I guess there was like You know, there was four four potential uh objectives for the war. And the piece says like first was decapitation, killing the Ayatollah. Second was crippling Iran's capacity to project power and threaten its neighbors. Third was a popular uprising inside Iran. And fourth was regime change with a secular leader installed to govern the country. And Basically the military uh cane tells Trump Uh, he he thinks the military does have the capacity. He wasn't even t saying he was for it, but he said the military does have the capacity to do one and two, killing the Ayotola and crippling Iran's capacity to project power. Um, and then basically everyone in the room. Except for W this was after Bibi Netanyahu left and the Israelis left, but all of his staff was like all the rest of the senior officials uh in the in the White House were basically said that three and four um the popular uprising and uh installing a secular leader were crazy. Uh Ratcliffe, the CIA directors called it uh farcical. Um and and then Rubio interjects, that means b it's bullsh. I I assume because Trump didn't know what first go meant. Um But even and even as General Cain said he believes the military could achieve one and two, he also Warned about The Straight of Four moves and how it would be very, very difficult to reopen or and how the Iranians could gain control of it, which has happened. Trump seemed to dismiss that because he thought, oh, the regime will have fallen by then. Um and warned about um depleting munitions that we are gonna like use a lot of our weapons and and defensive weapons, offensive weapons by doing this, and Trump didn't seem to care about that. Um, and then there's even an anecdote in that story, how Tucker Carlson, uh, who had been calling Trump and warning him not to do this and pleading with him not to do this, he basically said uh he had a call with the president right before Trump said go and Uh, Trump said to Carlson, I know you're worried about it, but it's going to be okay. And then uh Tucker said, Well, how do you know? And Trump said, Because it always is. I think there's that is a very, very telling anecdote. Me too. Me too. Right. Trump just assumed everything's gonna go great. Yeah. It always has for him, right? Go bankrupt, get rich again, right? And I think especially since he survived the assassination attempt, he does have this. He has like a little bit of a little bit Messiah complex here where he thinks like, you know, God has sent him to be president again and he thinks it's I I think he He saw Venezuela. go off without a hitch for Him, at least. Um, and he saw the, you know, in the twelve day war when they bombed Iran, like that went off relatively easily without a hitch as well. And so he just thought this would be the same. And he also sees it as a legacy item. He thinks, oh, well, no president's done this in 47 years. There's also a good piece in The Atlantic today. Um uh Jonathan Lemayer wrote about uh how for Trump, like it's nineteen seventy nine again. And he's sort of like stuck in nine in in the eighties and nineteen seventy nine, and in nineteen seventy nine, you know, the the popular political thing to say was like, Oh, Carter was too soft on Iran and and you know, we would have if if he had just bombed Iran then, it would have been better. And so like and and because Trump's always frozen in time, he's still thinking that it's like the eighties and that he's gonna be the guy who couldn't do what presidents could tried to do for forty seven years. and changed a theocracy in Iran. Yeah, I think I think that's all right. Like he It's like he has a messiah complex. He also just Has been It's good this goes to sort of his idiocy is to not understand the difference between A handful of directed strikes. Ad Aran as part of Midnight Hammer, or sending in the Delta Force into Venezuela to abduct one person from launching a war. With Iran. in the Middle East with the straight of four moose there. Like did not understand those differences is So it's galling, really. Like it's stunning to be that sort of ignorant of the whole thing, but 'Cause he does all these things in the military. They do what they're supposed to do every single time without flaw, without loss of life. And he just thought he could get Away with it. It's still I think the eighties thing is a really interesting point because Like it is his mentality about cities, about crime, about everything is that New York Nineteen eighties, um the nineteen seventy nine. Uh he sees how that ended Carter's presidency, the attempt to rescue the hostages, the inability to rescue the hostages. in the in the embassy. It still is strange that he has picked regime change as his legacy items. I know, because because he also watched Dirac unfold. And um, you know, I mean he claims to be opposed to that now, but what he was opposed to was when it all went south, he wanted to be on the side of uh saying, Yeah, this is bad and what a catastrophe. And also, Oh, he should have taken the oil. Uh his his lesson in Iraq is like don't send in a whole bunch of ground troops and take the oil. Um, and so which I guess is why he hasn't sent in ground troops yet to Iran, but who knows? Because the war continues. Uh it's a very fragile ceasefire that has almost fallen apart numerous times. It it may yet fall apart by the time they get to Islamabad this weekend. By the time you're listening to this tom on Friday. Right, right, right. Right. Because Israel is continues to just bomb the hell out of Lebanon. Uh in Beirut. densely pop populated uh urban area. Um, hundreds of civilians have died, women, children, medics. And I guess finally Trump called BB. And said like you've got a pursue some kind of diplomatic negotiations with the Lebanese government, which had been trying to disarm Hezbollah before um uh this latest war and had been also trying to negotiate since the uh Israel began bombing them, had been trying to negotiate with the Israelis some kind of a diplomatic solution because so many Lebanese who have nothing to do with Hezbollah are dying in this war and millions have been displaced. So um I guess Trump has got B B to agree to pursue some kind of diplomatic negotiations, though Netanyahu also said there will be no ceasefire while negotiations go on. And so and the Iranians are saying like, absolutely not, we don't want to negotiate if this is happening. Who knows if they'll stick with that or not, but that's sort of where we are right now. It just it does sh show the weakness of Trump here, which is Trump wants a ceasefire. He wants this over. The thing preventing this from being over Is Israel bombing Lebanon? And he is unable to convince or force or use leverage on Netanyahu to get Israel to stop bombing Lebanon. And Israel's gonna keep bombing Lebanon because they want the war with Iran to keep going. They want the United States to keep bombing. Iran, so they're gonna keep bombing Lebanon and we are just in this is is a circular argument that Trump cannot figure out how to get out of because he does not have the guts, the courage the strategic sense to figure out how to get Netanyahu to do the thing he wants, even though Net Israel is dependent on the US for so much. Particular in this moment. You know, he also doesn't understand, or maybe doesn't care. Like Netanyahu's thought processes on this, which is uh not dissimilar to his thought process in Gaza, which is They're not just like taking out senior Hezbollah commanders. They are taking out like mid level Hezbollah. Uh Who are embedding themselves in civilian populations. The Israelis don't seem to care. They're bombing the civilian populations anyway. They are Basically occupying uh southern Lebanon at this point, and they may not ha and and it doesn't seem like they want to give it up. Um just like they are occupying Gaza. And basically their view is we're just gonna keep pushing the boundaries outward from Israel and we gonna keep calling them buffer zones, but what they really are is just taking land and occupying more land, thinking that somehow this is going to be enough to eradicate Hezbollah or Hamas or any of the other terrorist groups they think are threats. And it's continues to be proven wrong. Over and over and over again. And uh uh I wouldn't expect Trump to understand that, but maybe someone in the government might. Um So in the last few days, uh Trump has turned his attention toward another sworn enemy of the United States, NATO. Uh, the Wall Street Journal reports that the White House is considering a plan to punish NAT for not going along with Trump and Netanyahu's war by removing US troops. Uh Trump has also been ranting about NATO, posting quote, NATO wasn't there when we needed them, and they won't be there if we need them again. Remember Greenland, that big, poorly run piece of ice. Okay? Uh You would think all this might have made for an awkward meeting between Trump and NATO Secretary General Mark Ruta on Wednesday, but Not so, according to Ruta. Is the world safer today? Than it was before the war was started? Absolutely. Uh because and this is thanks to President Trump's leadership. Do you still consider him daddy after yesterday? I was not calling him my daddy, but uh saying But of course daddy has has also a special connotation. Uh and I now have to live as this the rest of my life. Dan, do you still consider Trump daddy? I don't really know how to answer that question, John. It seems like a trap is what it seems like. That guy w Go ahead. You you you defend Mark Ruta. As you did in our morning meeting. I did. I mean what I was shocked by was the way in which you just dismissed the importance of NATO to the uh the global alliances. I mean here here's the thing. Uh obviously Ruta has developed a has a strategy of appeasement that is incredibly embarrassing. Yes. For him, for NATO, for those of us who even have to consume him, it is it's It's embarrassing. I don't know how he sleeps at night. The problem for Ruta is NATO does not exist without the United States. And w they are staring down a face where We have Russian. Headed towards the European continent. And if the United States pulls out of NATO They lose the most important military part of NATO and the biggest threat to Turin to Russia. And so he like I don't applaud the way he's doing this. I'm embarrassed for him. I'm embarrassed for his family that this happens, but He is he is trying to keep NATO together because like you love just to say. Fuck you and walk away. But if he does that, then NATO, which is the thing he's in charge of Collapses functionally at least. doesn't formally pull out of NATO, which you know he would need to go to Congress for anyway, or who knows, maybe in a troop social post he'll do it. Um even if he doesn't do that, if you're Vladimir Putin and uh you have eyes on uh potentially invading a NATO country Do you really think the United States is going to come to the defense? Of NATO? um militarily or even otherwise if uh if you go ahead and and invade at this point? Probably not. And that's the whole alliance right there. Yeah. That's the whole point of NATO. No Tr Trump seems to think in in these posts, Trump seems to think NATO is like um like you be because you're in NATO, whatever one country wants to do in NATO and whatever wars they want to pursue and invasions and and bombings they wanna do, then everyone else has to join too. Come on, we're NATO, you gotta help me. Yeah, yeah, he thinks they're all part of the same gang and they can go. He doesn't realize it's a defensive alliance. Once again, a Basic principle learned in you know, European history, you know, one oh one or whatever else that Trump this has eluded Trump till his eighties. Pod Save America is brought to you by Helix. It's so important. I'm tired right now because uh my dog woke me up in the middle of the night because she had surgery and was moaning and groaning, but I was like, Hey, hey, hey. Stop that. I'm so comfortable in my Helix mattress. I was sleeping like a bug in a rug. Poor girl. So, you know, let her out for her her nightly diarrhea. 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Um Vance's team has seemingly been leaking to every reporter who listen. that the vice president has been the senior Trump official most opposed to the war in Iran. This comes up quite a bit in the Times piece we talked about, uh when the ceasefire came together this week. Vance happened to be out on the campaign trail, um, in Hungary. As one does. Yeah, as one does holding a rally for the country's pro Putin authoritarian incumbent, Victor Orban. Where uh he just as a nice touch accused the Ukrainians of election interference. J D Vance accusing the Ukrainians of election interference as he A US official Was in Hungary. Campaigning for the authoritarian incumbent in that country. And apparently lacks self awareness. Uh very normal. But America's best hope for peace in the Middle East did make some time for Iran questions on the tarmac in Budapest. Here's how we handle it. We never made that promise. We never indicated that was gonna be the case. First of all, He said that there are a few points of disagreement before the negotiation. Well, that must mean that there's a lot of points of agreement because there's a 15 point plan floating around, there's a 10 point plan floating around. If he's frustrated about three issues, that actually means that there's a lot of agreement. That's point number one. Point number two to respond to each of those issues and I read it very closely. Let me just say this. I actually wonder how good he is at understanding English because there are things that he said that frankly didn't make sense in some of the in the context of the negotiations that we've had. The second thing Galib said, which again I found fascinating is he said We refuse to give up the right to enrichment. And I thought to myself, you know what? My wife Has the right. to skydive. She doesn't jump out of an airplane because she and I have an agreement that she's not going to do that because I don't want my wife jumping out of an airplane. We don't really concern ourselves with what they claim they have the right to do. We concern ourselves with what they actually do. And I think the president's been very clear on the enrichment question. Tell you the the my wife really came out of nowhere. Did not expect The uh him to reference his wife jumping out of a plane. Um, but it really is interesting to see how J D Vance grapples with these foreign policy issues. You can tell he's really giving it thought and definitely not. Sort of just making it up on the fly. He is such a pedantic I know obnoxious high school debater. Actually I think I think the misunderstanding it couldn't be us. I think the misunderstanding is you not speaking English very well. Does he think their translators don't exist? Does he think that like what what does he think this is like actually Really depends on what you mean by right. Like I have an idea. I have a way to get out of this, because I was really thinking about Usha and skydiving. Hmm. Like do they have an is the agreement that she won't skydive or do they have a mutual non skydiving pact? If her I'd be like, Yeah, sure, I won't do it, but if you want to jump out of a plane Any time. Sure. Yeah, I'm sure she probably is wants to jump out of almost any movie vehicle that she's in with Jane Vans. I will fly you myself. Um So If Vance does get a primary challenge in 2028, how far do you think he'll go? in trying to communicate that he was always against this war. And will it work? Because they are out there. Some someone from his camp, if not Vance himself, uh did some real leaking to the New York Times about him in that meeting. They have to Politico before. It's been quite a few places now that the the Vance team has been out there just making sure everyone knows how opposed to the war he is. In private. If you think Joe Biden was tough on Kamala Harris for trying areas of disagreement. How do you think Donald Trump, the guy who threatened to hang his last vice president, is going to be in the course of this election? Yeah, I don't know. I can't tell. I mean I think he will be a complete dick, but like I do wonder if on some issues he'll give him a little I mean it would be f uh funny and not funny it's not the right word, sad if he's Dark Darkly funny. Darkly funny if he's more malleable than Joe Biden was on this crucial issue of flexibility. Yeah's the thing though. S Sonny Host and get the question ready, you know? I don't think we're gonna see JD Vance on the view at any point. Um A couple th a couple of things here. One J D Vance is not gonna have a lot of success. Running. In the Republican primary. I g away from Trump. Like the way these things typically work when a vice president is running to succeed a president, a two term president, and we have two modern examples, George H. W. Bush and uh Al Gore. Is there is a Regime there's a c continuity candidate and there's a change candidate. And JD Vance, by definition, is the continuity candidate. And the continuity candidate almost always wins, like George H W Bush and Al Gore did, because even if Trump is is unpopular. Fading up from the scene. He still will be remain. very popular with Republican voters and popular enough that it would push JD Vance to the top. So his his he's gonna own everything Trump does. And if he his th his worst strategy, which is the the strategy I suspect he would do because he is all short term ambitions and not a lot of long term strategic thinking. I his worst strategy would be to try to distance himself from Trump because he's gonna own Everything Trump did. Right. Yeah, he's gonna it's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be something that I enjoy watching, I will say. Yeah, it is because he's also a bad liar. Yes. He loves to lie. I'm not saying it's not his passion, but he's not very good at it. Um because he's also not very charismatic. And so I don't think he can pull it off that well. And I don't think he's cl he he thinks he's clever enough to sort of split the baby on this, but he's not. Gap between how clever JD Vance thinks and how clever JD Vance actually is. Yeah, that's massive. The gap in the uh where the negotiations stand between the US and Iran right now. And he just is so Politically maladroit. Mm-hmm. He's just like a lumbering oath knocking things over as he works his way through this. And so he's he's going you just al just when he you always see The cards up his sleeve when he is talking. And it's gonna be if he is trying to do anything other than just like be Trump three point oh or whatever it would be, it's gonna be so embarrassing and so easy to poke fun at. I Honestly, we'll we'll consider unretiring from politics if JD Fance is the nominee, because that would be the most fun campaign to work on. You could have so like actually just Honestly I mean I think I think we probably have more fun just Just doing it from here, you know? We don't want some some fucking some fucking lame candidate being like, No, that's too mean. I am on the m the make fun of JD Vance super pack side. Super Pack. Okay. I think you can do to JD Vance what the Republicans definitely did to Gore. And just make him an absolute caricature of himself. We don't need to join one of these. We'll just start one here. Okay. You can always see the cards up his sleeve. Uh he's our man in his lama bath for the he's there to take the fall. You think so? I mean I it's unclear exactly why I think one one reason why he's there is no one tr the Iranians and all the other interlocutors do not trust Wikov and Kushner because they're Complete dopes. And they think all the and then they think the people who aren't those two are like bloodthirsty warmongers and they do and I think, you know, with with some legitimacy, they think the J D D Vance is the most opposed to this war. Probably. will be easier to talk to about potential peace or some diplomatic agreement um than anyone else in the administration. Yeah, I think that's probably true. You know, I think they probably trust him a little bit more. Their mistake. Um So uh one thing's for sure, Vance must clearly be aware that the outrage among MAGA elites who oppose this war has uh Now reached a fever pitch. I know we've played a lot of these clips uh in the last month, but They just keep getting better and better. So uh here you go. A whole civilization will die tonight. Never To be brought back again. That is the definition of genocide. How do we 25th Amendment is asked? Can't he just behave like a normal human. I mean, honestly, like the president. I 3D chess. Shhh shut up. Fucking shut up about that shit. His negotiation tactic. Is to kill an entire country full of civilians, men, women and children. An American president? So that the Strait of Hormuz will be opened? I it's just wrong. The American people have to open their eyes and deal with reality and deal with truth. And the truth is, look, you may have supported President Trump for ten years like I did and like you have. But this is not the same man. This is not the same man that we supported. Those people Who are in Direct contact with the president need to say no. I'll resign. I'll do whatever I can do legally to stop this because this is insane. And if given the order, I'm not carrying it out. Figure out the codes on the football yourself. Dan, um This is breaking. We do have a response from the president. to all all this and I'm just gonna read this presidential statement. And uh it is lengthy, so I will try to go quickly. And uh my emphasis will be um only where there are all capital letters. So Thank you. Thank you for your service. I know why Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, Candace Owens, and Alex Jones have all been fighting me for years, especially by the fact that they think it is wonderful for Iran, the number one state sponsor of terror, to have a nuclear weapon. Because they have one thing in common, low IQs, they're stupid people, they know it, their families know it, and everyone else knows it too. Look at their past, look at their record. They don't have what it takes and they never did. They've all been thrown off television, lost their shows, and aren't even invited on TV because nobody cares about them. They're nutjobs, troublemakers. and will say anything necessary for some free and cheap publicity. Now they think they get some clicks because they have third rate podcasts, but nobody's talking about them and their views are the opposite of MAGA, or I wouldn't have won the presidential election in a landslide. MAGA agrees with me and just gave CNN a hundred percent approval rating of Trump. Not hand flailing fools like Tucker Carlson, who couldn't even finish college. He was a broken man when he got fired from Fox and he's never been the same. Perhaps he could see a good psychiatrist or Megan Kelly who nastily asked me the now famous only Rosie O'Donnell question or crazy Candace Owens. who accuses the highly respected First Lady of France of being a man when she is not, and will hopefully win lots of money in the ongoing lawsuit. Actually, to me, the First Lady of France is far more beautiful than Candace. In fact, it's not even close. Or bankrupt Alex Jones, who says some of the dumbest things and lost his entire fortune, as he should have. for his horrendous attack on the families of the Sandy Hook shooting victims, ridiculously claiming it was a hoax. These so-called pundits are losers, and they always will be. Now fake news CNN, the flailing New York Times and all of the other radical left news organizations are hailing them and giving them positive press. For the first time in their lives, they're not MAGA, they're losers. They're just trying to latch on to MAGA. As president, I could get them on my side anytime I want to, but when they call, I don't return their calls because I'm too busy on world and country affairs. And after a few times, they go nasty, just like Marjorie Trader Brown. But I no longer care about this stuff. I only care about what's doing right for our country. MAGA is about winning and strength in not allowing Iran to have a nuclear weapon. MAGA is about making America great again, and these people have no idea how to do that, but I do. Because the United States is now the hottest country anywhere in the world. President Donald J. Trump. Okay. First, I want our listeners to know. There's no editing. John did that in one take flawlessly. Yeah, I did. I didn't practice at all, no. It was a very impressive. Also, just a couple swerves in there. The uh debunking of Sandy Hook when you read it, it's all kinda it begins, you kinda you kinda know where it's going. Right. Yeah. They're losers, they're not on T V, which to Trump is the uh pinnacle of success is cable television. Then we swerve into a v vigorous defense of Brigitte Macron. Including a testament to her beauty. Then he is in the no penis camp. Yes. Then he debunks uh Sandy Hook. Conspiracy theories, which was nice. And then we're back down the rabbit hole. Then and also, you know why he doesn't return their calls. Because he's too busy on world and country affairs. Yes, he's Which which is evident. But he definitely does not care. He definitely does not care. There's nothing about that that suggests caring. He is not mad online. Make sure everyone knows he is not mad online. I no longer care about that stuff. And that's why that's why he doesn't usually talk about it. And that's why he can barely speak about it. Just fire it off a Op ed length post about this. Um So in addition to um uh those people getting under his skin, uh there's also a great New York Times story about the most MAGA of MA fans on of all places Truth Social. Which is where that lovely p speech I just read, uh was first posted. And apparently, um, there's all these people on Truth Social which is gotta be all the people on True Social, because I don't think there's that many people on there in the first place. But they're all posting that they're ashamed to have voted for Trump, that he's gone off the deep end, et cetera, et cetera. I think like fifty percent of the the replies to his Easter Sunday I'm gonna kill you all post, whatever the fuck it was. Um, were negative. Only like twenty percent were supporter of something like that. The New York Times analyzed like forty thousand truths. I'm I'm just I'm hoping they used AI on that. Um What do you think about all this? Do you think uh you think it'll start showing up in polls of Republican voters? 'Cause it hasn't already. It is showing in polls of Republic voters, right? I mean it is yeah, like it it's happening on the margins. Sorry, yeah. Yeah. I mean Trump's approval rating among Republicans you know, about around this time last year was low nineties, high eighties, which is kind of where he's always been. Now that's low eighties, high seventies, depending on what you look at it, it's in the seventies in the PR P R R I poll, similar in The Uh. Pupil. What is notable is it's mostly from non MAGA Republicans, right? His pro rating is tr most significantly among them. That's very Iran War. related, he's getting 80 some percent of MAGA Republicans and some polls as high as 100%, according to his fake Harry Anton poll. Um among self-NFI MAGA Republicans, it's the around board is basically almost even. I think it's like plus eight with non-maga republicans. And I think we tend to think of non MAGA Republicans as like people just to the right of the bulwark. That's not actually the case. It could be people who And you know, have pretty conservative views on some issues who supported Trump this time but didn't support him previously, who got in the process because of him. They're just not they're just like probably less engaged Republicans, but they're pretty conservative. Um I mean I bet Marjorie Taylor Greene would consider herself a non MAGA Republican at this point. Because MAGA doesn't MAGA does not we've talked about this before does not mean you're an adherent to a specific philosophy. It means you're a Diehard supporter of Trump. And so people who are non-Diehard supporters of Trump can span the ideological spectrum within the Republicans. Um We do have a another another post from Trump. Iran is doing a very poor job, dishonorable some would say, of allowing oil to go through the Strait of Ormuz. That is not the agreement we have. President DJ T. Okay. So we're doing we're doing this in real time. Things are going great, it seems like. We talked about the toll one and now he just it's like he's learn yeah, he's just learning about things in real time. And I guess he I guess it probably took him a while to draft Uh the the post about Tucker and Megan Kelly, so maybe he hasn't been paying much attention to the news. Yeah, I mean so the right you know this as a former speechwriter is that you would go into your office and you just start writing. You sometimes you got you gotta turn the wifi off on your computer so that you can draft. You got you can't be checking social media. And so if he finishes that he did say he's been very busy with world and country affairs. Yes, he came out of the World and Country Affairs meeting check the internet and like holy shit. The the straight is still closed. It's like a course you take in college. Yes. There is another thing about the Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, all these folks breaking the Trump is One, it's a real problem for him politically for a couple reasons. One, like that has been his strength is he has had unanimous Republican support among elected officials. And Magamedia. And now that we have these high profile people breaking from Trump. It's just That is that is bad for him. It's like it's lost his superpower. And the also the other way to think about this is I think people tend to think that these are quote unquote Maga shows and the people who watch it are MAGA Trump Republicans. And obviously the majority of them voted for Trump and like Trump, but they are not fully mag this is not Fox this is not the Fox News audience, right? The Fox News audience are hardcore Republican supporters of Trump, mostly over the age of seventy. people who consume Megan Kelly, Candace Owens, Tucker Carlson tend to be younger. They tend to necessarily engage less in politics in what m and But it's not also just not the audience. of those shows every day, people tune in to who m that matters, it's that these clips are going viral everywhere. And so people who do not Who may have voted for Trump but do not engage in politics, they're seeing Critique from in part, you know, like in group. allies of Trump. And that is very, very damaging. These are people these are trusted voices among a certain set of voters. And now they are saying the same thing about Trump that they are hearing on Pot Save America. And that is the worst possible place for Donald Trump to be. And Trump aside. Because and you know, we'll talk about the midterms in a second, but like Um This is also going to depress like people who are cross pressured, who might like a lot of things that Trump has done, don't like Iran, or are hearing all this criticism about him on Iran. Um, like are are these people gonna m make sure they go out in the midterms and vote for Republicans? Are these people gonna like sign up to join J D Vance's campaign when he announces? in twenty twenty eight, like it is doing damage far beyond Trump. um what is happening. And far beyond what the polls show right now. Yes. Um, so a common thread um with the Alex Jones Tucker Carlson uh line of critique is uh some conservatives specifically calling for invoking the twenty fifth amendment, um which If you recall from earlier seasons of the Trump show. Or the spin off series Sleepy Joe involves the uh Involves the vice president and the cabinet deeming the president unfit to serve and removing him from office. Uh a lot of Democrats have also called for invoking the twenty fifth amendment and or impeaching Trump. I think as of Wednesday, we're at around seventy Dems in the House and a handful of Senators. Um you had a whole message box about why this isn't exactly a simple process. Or even a feasible one. Go ahead. I I love an organic message box plug, so thank you for that. Um This one got me very exercised because like we've s of all sort of come to the conclusion that Trump deserves impeachment and removal, but that is not a realistic way to get rid of him. If the Senate was not gonna remove Trump after he sent a mob of his supporters to murder them, it's hard to fathom the scenario in w in which they will. So now people have started calling for the twenty fifth amendment because the behavior that Trump has exhibited Really every day, but particularly in the last few weeks here, particularly in these truths starting on Easter. is that of someone who really shouldn't is not mentally fit to be in office. And so Democrats are calling for it, members of Congress are calling for it. It's seeing a lot of this online. And here's the problem with this, is the twenty fifth Amendment is actually a More challenging. To execute, then impeachment removal. By a large degree. So first it begins, as you point out, with the vice president, a majority of a cabinet that includes RFK Junior. Trump's personal defense attorney right now. Steve Whitcoff is apparently member of the cabinet. A majority of them have to send a letter to Congress saying that Trump is unfit. If they do that, JD Vance becomes the acting president. What happens then is Trump gets a chance to tell Congress he's fit which he would obviously do. Then Congress has twenty one days to reconvene. And then you need two thirds of the house. and two thirds of the Senate to vote to keep J D Vance as acting president. So it's like, how is that going to happen? That is not going to happen. You can't let alone just getting a members of Trump's cabinet of flunkeies to say he's unfit and then getting two thirds of the House and the Senate, which is a higher impeachment. And here's my problem with this strategy. is it puts the onus on the wrong people. The people who are responsible for Trump being able to act this way, do execute this war, act without any sort of accountability are Republicans in Congress. The Cabinet is never does not have to face the voters in November. Republicans of Congress do. And so our focus should be putting the blame for where we are on the people that we can vote out. Because the best way to reign Trump in is not to appeal to J D Vance and the Republican the Republican cabinet. It's to elect a democratic Congress. And I think this distracts from that. End of rant. I couldn't agree more. I even like on impeachment. We're gonna get J D Vance. Is that but first of all, the idea that Republicans have come this far. And now they're gonna impeach Donald Trump when they uh when they took a flyer on it after uh Uh, January sixth. Like it's just none of it's gonna happen. I get that this is a stand in for Um why aren't Democrats doing more? More Democrats should call for impeachment or twenty fifth amendment. We got to do something, we gotta do something. It's just not how the system is set up right now. And um the the best way to uh, you know, end Trump's presidency. uh is to elect a democratic house in a democratic senate and then elect a democratic president in twenty twenty eight. That's just the way it is right now. And and on issues where you might be able to get just enough Republicans to uh have a working majority in Congress, then maybe you can do stuff there. But even then. Donald Trump has veto power. Like Donald Trump has tremendous power as president right now. And he has that power mainly because the Republican Congress, at least enough people in the Republican Congress, most of them, 90 something percent of them, go along with literally anything he tells them to do. And and they need to be held accountable for that. That's what the next election is for, holding Republican politicians accountable for never saying no to Donald Trump about anything. The other my other beef with this is it's like a cheap stunt. It is you know, you're getting all these text messages. They're like sign our petition that Trump should be to call the twenty fourth amendment is a way to get online engagement. and raise grassroots dollars and when we treat our voter without telling people the true context of how this works. There is a penalty for treating our voters like idiots. Time and time again. It is And this is one of those examples. Pushing this, pushing Democrats, and look, I'm all for pushing Democrats to do things that they are too afraid to do. 100% We have a long record of doing that. But like pushing Democrats on this and like yelling about Democrats not like that is treating voters like idiots. Some of the pushback you get from people is that you want to make the case that Trump is unfit. If you want to make the case Trump is unfit, you do it this way. Donald Trump is unfit for office. I see it, you see it, and the Republicans in Congress see it. The thing is they are afraid to do anything about it. So if you want to rein in Donald Trump, we have to get rid of the people who allow him to act this way. Go to vote saveamer.com. Or even so the so the house some House Democrats today, because they're all on recess. First of all, most Democrats, especially all the Democratic leaders, said it's crazy that we're on recess still. Donald Trump is threatening genocide. Um they Congress should come back into session. Republicans have refused to bring Congress back to session. Democrat have no power to do that, but they called for it. A bunch of them went to the Capitol today, Democrats, and were like, all right, we're going to try to force another vote on the War Powers resolution. Republicans again blocked that. that would be another thing that, you know, Congress could do is to rein him in on the war itself. And again, Republicans refuse to do that. Again. Like You c w you just you can't make up the numbers. Yeah. Like we just don't have we don't have the majorities right now. If we have majorities and then we're not doing things with the majority, then you should definitely blame Democrats. For sure. And the one and the one that we don't have the majority of for sure? Trump's cabinet. Yeah. Hence the problem. Yeah, no kidding. Pot Save America is brought to you by Sundays. We all love the idea of feeding our dogs real fresh food, but the reality is that fresh dog food usually means taking up freezer space, time to thaw and prep, then a lot of mess when you serve it. Get the good and leave the hassle with Sundays. Sundays was founded by a veterinarian and mom, Dr. Tori Waxman, who got tired of seeing so called premium dog food full of fillers and synthetics. So she designed Sundays, air dried real food made in a human grade kitchen using the same ingredients and care you'd use to cook for yourself and your family. 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Uh it seems like Republicans who will be on the ballot this November are starting to become As the White House likes to say. Panicans. I guess it's their version of bedwetters? I don't know. They're both kind of stupid, but fine. Uh on Wednesday, Politico published a story with the headline We lose the midterms. Republicans worry Iran might have already cost them Congress. The title of which quotes a source described as quote close to the White House. Uh it's not just the polling freaking them out. Earlier this week, Democrats notched another pair of huge overperformances in two big elections. Uh the Wisconsin Supreme Court will now have a five two liberal majority after Chris Taylor crushed her conservative opponent by twenty points. Which was a an over twenty point swing from Kamala Harris's twenty twenty four performance in the state. um a ten point overperformance from the last time in twenty twenty five that uh the liberal candidate won a a Wisconsin Supreme Court election. And down in Georgia. Even though the Republican candidate did win the special election to replace Marjorie Taylor Greene, uh Democrat Sean Harris beat Camal Harris's performance in that district? By twenty five points. The largest overperformance in any special election by a Democrat since Doug Jones won the Alabama Senate seat. way back a thousand years ago in twenty seventeen. Um What was your reaction to the elections this week? Great. Great I mean good. Great. Next. All good. No these are all small sample sizes, but the margins in elections since The Warner Rod started. are better than the average. Spent Democratic performance both in twenty twenty five and earlier in twenty twenty six. Yeah. Now we're getting into the twenties. Well we talked you and I talked about this a couple episodes ago and it was like teens, high teens to low twenties. Now we're in twenties to mid twenties. It was about I think it was twelve and a half points. uh through early twenty twenty six. And the last couple have been very impressive. Democrats are very good at winning Supreme Court seats in Wisconsin. I think we've run four in a row now, which is a credit to the Wisconsin Democratic Party and the way they've trained Democratic voters to Understand the value of these. um winning the Wakasha mayor's race, first Democratic mayor for ten years incredible. the turnout in Georgia, but we're just seeing it all over the place, which is Democrats are fired up. Republicans are unenthused and swing voters are moving to Democrats. And you're seeing In Wisconsin, in small sample size again, and in Georgia, you're seeing huge swings among Hispanic voters in Hispanic precincts, like massive swings. That's all very positive news. I know. I'm I'm trying not to um too high on our own supply here, but some of these results are just it it is all it's the perfect storm of like all the things that could go wrong for Republicans with voters, right? Which is that they In the higher turnout elections. They are losing because voters are switching. People who voted Republican are are voting Democrat. And and then in other elections the the G O P turn out is collapsing. So you have Republican voters either not showing up. They're both not showing up and switching their vote. In in in like deep red places, blue Blue places. Differ all different types of districts. The dark linings are the things to watch out or just be aware of is there are caps on how well Democrats can do because the House map is so gerrymandered. We've talked about this before. There are only four Republicans in districts that Um I think there was something like nineteen or twenty of them Republicans in districts that uh Hillary Clinton won. And I mean we had seven of them in California alone in tw in twenty eighteen. So but the this environment is actually much better for Democrats than twenty eighteen was at this point. Um And Like you can s there's a world in which a lot of seats that would not otherwise be in play are in play. I mean The Cook political report moved the Iowa governor's race to a toss up today. I know. Go rob's hand. Um And again, and this is this matters a lot for the House, which we were talking about, but it it it starts to get me thinking about the Senate even more. Yeah. This is that the Senate is really in play. The Senate is in play with a margin like this. It's a nar like If it really is like twelve thirteen, you really have to nail it exactly because Trump won a lot of these s states that we need by Eleven, twelve, nearly thirteen points, but we're we're in the game right now, and that's something that seemed impossible six months ago. Uh not to get ahead of ourselves, but it does seem like the twenty twenty eight Democratic primary has already begun. A a bunch of potential candidates showed up to speak at Al Sharpton's National Action Network event in New York City this week. Uh, and down in New Orleans, the DNC spring meeting kicked off on Thursday, where one of the first headlines was about how a nonbinding resolution criticizing APAC's influence was voted down. While two other relevant uh resolutions were kicked to the something called the Middle East Working Group. Uh, DNC chair Ken Martin explained that the APAC resolution was merely shelved in favor of a quote blanket repudiation, quote, condemning the corrosive influence of all dark money in democratic primaries. Um, which so then the idea is that that resolution uh included APAC among other organizations or other, you know, dark money organizations. Um, this is all on the heels of new pew polling this week that shows roughly six in ten Americans now have unfavorable views of Israel, including an all-time high of roughly eight in ten Democrats, which is up from 69% just last year and 53% in 2022. Uh interesting detail on the uh on the DNC thing in a political story before the vote. An anonymous DNC member said that they received direct calls from two, quote, presidential aspirants who would have to answer for the DNC's positions on Israel and APAC if they run. I read a couple times. I'm still curious if those uh presidential candidates wanted the resolution to pass or not pass. Um, but they called about it. Um What's your guess and how do you think this issue of Israel plays out in the twenty twenty eight primary? I ass I maybe one on one on the one on other side. Of the issue? Oh maybe. If you were thinking of running for president in twenty twenty eight. And in april of twenty twenty six. You are calling DNC members about a resolution, a non binding DNC resolution, you are focused on the wrong things. Also Not for nothing, but I'd like to hear a compelling argument for why we need nonbinding DNC resolutions. Uh it seems like it's the same reason for why we uh need questionnaires from interest groups that presidential candidates fill out. Yeah, it's just that at least that at least cause ourselves some trouble. Well that one at least you are has a purpose from the group's perspective, which is to get The group's perspective. Yes, from the group's perspective to get candidates To lay out a position on things. 'Cause they're gonna make endorsements and so you wanna you should have to answer some questions you wanna make endorsements. We we can go long on the v on the role of groups. I know you've a lot of thoughts on it. Um we don't agree on all of them, so it'll be a fun debate one day, but um The Here I don't even know it doesn't serve a purpose for anyone. The DNC or anyone else. So maybe we should just get rid of it. Look, I do think that when it comes time for the twenty twenty eight Democratic Party, we should also get rid of that. I know. I know, but at least there you can say that. Yeah, that's a different thing. What is the party stance? on Israel, party stance on any number of controversial issues and then everyone can fight it out. It is like what is the nonbinding resolution at the DNC gonna do right now? It's going to give you political stories. Like that is that's its sole purpose is for there to be political story political stories about it. The other two resolutions, by the way, were um recogn one recognizing a Palestinian state and the other conditioning military aid to Israel. And I think the Middle East working group is a place where these resolutions are supposed to go die. Yeah. I think that's the I yeah, you haven you haven't heard a lot about the Middle East Middle East working group at the D and C. No, I th I assume that I mean this is it's like a it's not an unclever solution to the problem of just like this is a place to send well you're not killing them. You're not enacting them, you're sending them to some other place. Right. You're you're referring they're just simply being referred. Uh the whole thing. Yeah, well it's well also the path to establishing a better Democratic Party policy on Israel is not through the DNC committee process. That is correct. It is through The candidates Who maybe should be coming up with the position as opposed to Yes, uh it's just a bizarre use of time and energy from that candidate. Um or those two candidates. And look, it's hard you know, you have eight in ten Democratic voters who have an unfavorable view of Israel. You have even fewer who trust Netanyahu. It is You have you know, majority huge majorities whose sympathies are with the Palestinians as opposed to over the Israelis in Gallup polling. Just there's been a dramatic shift on this issue among Democrats since twenty twenty two. Just massive. I cannot imagine. Um the next Democratic nominee. Um winning the primary. Um with a position that says we should continue um giving the military and other aid to Israel that we give right now. No no one would run on that. That wouldn't even be saying that I feel like even conditioning aid at this point is the um the moderate position. I think I I imagine that most of them will get to ending aid to Israel. Offensive aid or I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean I think there there's an argument to be made, right, which is like we we should treat Israel From a perspective of the taxpayer funding that we are providing, the same way we treat Any other ally. any other country. And I mean it's to me it's a question whether um it's a real alliance right now, because I think that the the government there is a an authoritarian government, which yeah, we have one too. Uh but I think that the government there is is is not one that I certainly want to support with my tax dollars. um as they have w did what they did to Gaza or still doing to Gaza or doing what they are to the West Bank or doing what they are to Lebanon right now. Um and so and it is a wealthy enough nation that they should be able to provide for their own uh defense. And like I don't I don't I I think that to me and look, it these are treated as like fringe lefty positions for some reason still, but You know, over sixty percent of Americans support getting rid of all aid to Israel. Um, and you just saw the eight eight it's the eighty percent of Democrats at this point. you go to eighteen to forty nine year old Democrats, it's even higher. eighteen to forty nine year old Republicans, it's like fifty seven, sixty percent. I mean P I I I think that people who really care about Israel and who are much more pro Israel should really think long and hard about why it is that they have lost the um the public uh battle over this, the public opinion war over this so badly and why it has has shifted so dramatically over the last couple of years. And the answer is not because of TikTok. I was gonna say yes. And you know, it's just it's just not. And it it it's it's at this point it's insulting. Um to tell people that. And I think if you really care about Israel then you need to think long and hard about like why this has happened and whether fighting so hard Um to continue. the US relationship with Israel as it is right now, with the aid that we're giving it, is really um worth what has happened to public opinion because of it. One thing I'm confident of is that this is going to be a point of great discussion during the Democratic Primary be a lot during the debates will be on this issue, for sure. It's gonna come up in town halls and interviews. It'll come up on interviews on this podcast and everywhere else. So we're gonna get to know how all the candidates feel about it. I imagine that APAC will through its super packs. uh try to influence the process in some way. I'm quite confident that their d their desire to do so will be counterproductive to their aims in the Canada they support, and it will backfire, um, as it did in Illinois um as we saw recently. Just one other thing that I think It's just something people should flag in their head as they're listening to the conversation on this is The Way in which the D and C switched from Uh, not taking APAC contributions to not taking any contributions from dark money groups is A rhetorical device a lot of Democrats are using right now to not answer the APAC question. Well they'll say, Well, yeah, I'm not gonna take it from anyone, but without getting to the heart of the question about APAC and the role that APAC specifically plays. You could ask that about other special interest groups and you should. AI, right? We have these AI super packs who are who are putting their thumb on the scale for some Democrats in primaries. You saw the crypto super PAX come in and try to influence the Illinois Senate primary. So we should uh talk about all of those interest groups. But people who Do not want to take a specific don't want to specifically answer the APAC question 'cause they feel like it's fraught. will then turn to this while not while we shouldn't have any dark money in politics as opposed to dealing with this specific question. What I would say is Don't avoid this question. Because it's fraught. If you don't know enough about it. Lear more about it. And decide first, you know, always decide forget about the polls. Decide what you believe. about this issue, just as you should decide and have a real thoughtful response. And ideas on you just mentioned it, artificial intelligence or any number of controversial issues that will be or non controversial issues that will be debated in twenty twenty eight. Figure out what your position is, figure out where you would go, figure out how you would answer these questions. Um that's the most important thing from like a w what do you believe moral perspective. But I should just say, and w we went through this in 2020, there are some positions um that in a primary are argued about and Democratic candidates worry because they're like, oh well I'm pushed to the left in a primary and I'm taking these little lefty positions, then I gotta worry about what happens in a general. And this the This whole issue about Israel and APAC, this is not one of those issues. Because this is not only like like the the views on Israel are very clear within the Democratic Party. It is overwhelming. We are talking eighty percent. Same with military aid to Israel, same with APAC, and it's also a like sixty percent issue. in the general election. So um now, if you genuinely care like just are very pro Israel, then like, you know, don't take the position just because it's you know you're looking at the polls. Like just you know, go and fight the position and say if you don't agree with me, you don't agree with me, but this is where I am and this is what I believe. But like d don't pretend. No one should pretend this is some lefty issue. um that people are getting pushed on in the primaries that is gonna then cause them trouble in the general 'cause that's just bullshit. Um all right, one last thing before we get to Tommy's conversation with Ram Emanuel. Um as we were getting ready for today's show, we looked up at the TV and suddenly Melania Trump was making a statement at the White House. Um denying that she had any substantive relationship. With Jeffrey Epstein. Let's take a listen. I have never had any knowledge of Epstein. abuse of his victims. I was not a participant, was never on Epstein plane. And never visited He's private island. My email reply to Maxwell. Can not be Catherine. As anything more? than casual correspondence. Several individuals and companies have been legally obligated Publiki op apologize and retract their lies about me. Such as Dлі Bis. James Carwell and Harper Collins, UK. Not HarperCollins UK. You really What the f we Everyone in the office was like, What the fuck is happening right now? Do you ha do you have any idea? No one seems to. I have I have maybe we'll get an answer between is an answer has come while we're recording this or one will come between now and tomorrow, but none of the reporters Can't have any idea why she did it, what the context was. So a lot of times You know, y there will be rumors going through DC or politics about a pending story. That's I've been I've been looking everywhere for it. And everyone knows it's coming. Even if it hasn't been printed, it has it but everyone of Popticos is coming. And then you will see politicians do things and they make sense if you know that story is coming. This is not one of those times. It didn't seem like anyone knows what she is talking about. Or why she picked today. to offer this out of context statement of protesting way too much about her relationship with Epstein. Also, apparently Trump told CNN he knew that she'd be making a statement. And then Jackie Almaney from MS Now called him and he told her he, um, he had no idea she'd be making the statement. And that's also what Jackie Heinrich from Fox heard as well. Um, that he he had no idea. So like there's conflicting reports of whether Trump did. I did notice in Um In one of the playbooks, either In the morning or PM. At the bottom, there was a New York Post story before the announcement. where an associate of Melania Trump said she'd be making a quote big announcement today that would quote spread internationally. Well, congrats. For people who don't know, the email she was referencing um was in the Epstein files. It was to Glain Maxwell. She said Dear G. How are you? Nice story about J E in New York, Mag. You look great on the picture. You look great on the picture. Those are her words. I know you were very busy flying all over the world. How was Palm Beach? I cannot wait to go down. Give me a call when you're back in New York. Have a great time. Love Melania. That was from October of two thousand and two, the New York magazine uh piece about Jeffrey Epstein she was referencing was the piece where her husband is quoted as saying he likes the girls really young. So that's cool. Um I don't know, man. I don't know. Is that your advice you would have given Melania Trump as a White House communications director to randomly go out to the cameras on a Thursday afternoon in the middle of a uh a war in Iran to just say, Hey, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know Jeffrey Epstein. Bye. Ye Yes, I think that's the exact right thing to do. To go out there and deny No questions. I will take no questions about this. I do not know Jeffrey Epsy. Yeah, while I while I have your time, I just wanted to briefly deny involvement in any illegality that you did not ask me about. Okay, bye. And and and if you think The you can connect me to Jeffrey Epstein, just ask James Carville or HarperCollins how that went for them. HarperCollins HarperCollins, UK. I will see you at the next premiere of Melania. Amazing. She's a weird one. She is a weird one. Okay. When we come back from the break, you will hear Tommy's conversation with the former mayor, ambassador, and White House Chief of Staff, Rama Manuel. 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And for every item you purchase an essential clothing item is donated to someone facing housing insecurity. One purchase, one donated with over one hundred fifty million donations and counting. Head over to Bombus.com slash Cricket and use code Crooked. For 20% off your first purchase, that's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash crooked, code crooked at checkout. My guest today is a former member of Congress, White House Chief of Staff, Mayor Chicago Ambassador. Sure, seems like he's running for president in twenty twenty eight. Ram Emanuel. Great to see you again. Nice to see you, Tommy. Welcome to Los Angeles. You have a more of a a casual LA chic, I see. Yeah. Yeah, like a glow. It's the only thing clean. Just rip it off your brothers. Yeah. Going to Harry's closet. Too bad he's too big. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Just yeah, well, I we all saw the um shirtless photos of him and Elon Musk. He's been working out. Uh or the meds are working. Either way, or both. H G Hell of a drug. All right. We're joking because we're breathing a sigh of relief this week because our president decided not to go through with his threat. uh to destroy the entire Iranian civilization. So that's nice. That's what counts as a win in the Trump two point oh era. Um but the debate over why the war started is raging. Have you had a chance to read Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan's long piece in the New York Times. Okay. So they report that on February eleventh, Prime Minister Netanyahu met with Trump in the situation room, the head of the Massad zooms in, they make this pitch. Yeah. Who I'm sure you know. Um, and they give this presentation about the case for war. It includes a bunch of assumptions about how easy it'll be that are now. catastrophically wrong. Um we're probably you could tell they were at the time, but now we know they were. Can you remember a foreign leader meeting with the president in the sitroom during your time? Is that weird? Yeah. I think Well, two things I want to one thing about last week. You're I wanna go back to because I was thinking about this more. President of the United States. The president of the United States. This is not a speech in which you do the arsenal democracy. We're gonna destroy civilization, the Persian civilization. At the same time the vice president is in Budapest saying we're gonna save the Christian civilization and then you have a secretary of defense who's calling this a Christian crusade. What could go wrong when you have those kind of brain power working all the time? Now I feel better. I got that off my chest. And the president tweeted uh you know. We're saving industry or whatever, right? We're destroying. Which is the cry of a terrorist. Uh so we're both destroying and saving two d one civilization and the other. So Nobody I'm thinking of both My Clinton time. Six years. An Obama time. I do not remember a single not only a single foreign leader in the situation Anybody themselves or their staffs ever even given access to that room. So or in any one of those rooms or et cetera. So I don't ever remember that happening and I don't think it would ever happen. Is very weird. So again, what happens in that room is also weird. Not only that they're in that room, but what happens in that room. So obviously Trump decides to go to war. He and he alone is responsible for his decision. Yeah. But there is this debate. And a ton of reporting now about the pressure campaign by Netanyahu and sort of lobbying Trump to Go to war with her on. Um What is the appropriate way? Talk that in your view. Um, because I I'm sure you've seen the folks I've seen who argue that it can veer into a conversation that is anti Semitic, it leans into tropes about Israel controlling the United States or foreign policy. Like what's the right way to talk about it? It's gonna lead into that and also given what the Secretary of State said. six weeks ago, it's only gonna kinda layer that. I think Depending how Conversations go in Islamabad. You're gonna go from that conversation to I think this president may scapegoat. Yeah. No. You and I both worked uh for uh uh President Obama, but I want to say this is Prime Minister's been shopping this. Four, possibly five. I can't remember Clinton, but Bush President Ob President Bush, rather. Forty three, President Obama. President Trump forty w uh, you know, the first term President uh Biden. Everybody rejected this. And because when you looked at it. The equities versus the liabilities just didn't pan out. Right. So I don't give the president of the United States Who has agency here. any pass, but this will go into a very bad place. in a very d uh I think in the sense of the Prime Minister uh not made an argument to the President. I don't absolve the President and anybody on his team. But I also read the story, the flip side of this, Tommy, which is also Nobody in the uh President's administration They're all they don't have their hands in the bloody. They're all leaking on each other. Yeah, they opposed it. Uh, you know, this is all crap, you know, other words that they use to describe their position. So everybody's trying to make sure that they were not seen the scene of the crime. Mm-hmm. And I'm sorry, so I don't absolve any of them. Uh the Prime Minister. said what he said to the president, but this argument is going to given the context also in America and given the context Of anti Israel or anti Semitism, it's gonna lead to a very bad bad place. And I do think though, and I will say this, I I mean President Obama was presented a similar plan. That's how the Olympic uh games I think that was the term that was used for the cyber attacks on uh Iran's capacity, nobody took kinetic the decision to go into the deep end on the kinetic effort. This president did. And it's on him. Yeah. He no no pass. It it's certainly on him, but it also just seems like self evident based on all this reporting, based on what Netanyahu himself says when he's back in Israel, where you know he's been there was a tape release in 2001 where he was kind of bragging about his ability to manipulate leaders in Washington or move them, I think was the term he used. Wait, let's just like lobby them. Do politics. Well look I mean let's go back. He runs for reelection with the message Oh, uh um I think I'm getting the exact word, but I'm getting the sentiment right, which is uh uh a leader in a different class. That was the message and it had pictures of him with Putin and pictures with him with Trump. So that was actually what he campaigned on publicly. So you don't have to kinda We don't have to be archaeologists or, you know, anthropologists here. That's what he campaigned on that he could play at a level that nobody else played. It's in his own words. Yeah. But but again, I you know Only the President of the United States can order American servicemen and women. Only a President of the United States can order resources that that are pulled out of the Indo Pacific, pulled out of different theaters to that theater, pulled THAAD weapons out of South Korea, pulled patriots that were supposed to go to Ukraine. Only the Commander in Chief can do that. And so Prime Minister made his case. Doesn't mean you have to buy it. Yeah, exactly. Um, Tucker Carlson speaking of things only the president can do. Tucker Carlson is very worried about Trump using a nuclear weapon. In Iran. Has that fear occurred to you? And and if yes, can you talk a little bit about the process and how that actually works and how few checks there would be? I uh I don't believe Look, I mean it's a theoretical discussion, um or hypothetical rather. I don't think the president of the United States Um uh would do that. And while I have zero confidence in And I mean that from the Cabinet to the White House. I actually think They would. hit the pause button. Even they would find some nerve of character to step up and say what they didn't do here. Uh meaning here being the uh lead into the uh Iran war. they would know that this that this would have to be stopped. The pause button would mean convincing him though, right? I mean there's no like You can't take the nuclear button and throw it into the ocean so we can't press it, right? I mean there's no technically. There's no way look head of the joint chiefs, there's the rest of the military. I think there would be A ma I I'm just betting on human character there would be a massive pushback on this. I don't know what got Tucker Carlson, uh he's not like a horse whisperer or the great whisperer to Donald Trump, to say that. This would be uh well I don't mean this Cavalier, so I want to be very clear. You can definitely take the Nobel Peace Prize off the table. That's not happening. I don't mean to I'm I said that as you This I don't believe that would happen. I'm glad to hear you. uh that are worth spending intellectual uh energy on to and analyze what are the repercussions, things that they never do. Even an impulsive person like this would not do that. JD Vance, the vice president, is now going to Pakistan to lead these talks on Saturday. He'll be joined by Steve Witkoff. Uh, and Jared Cushner. Oh, I'm so comforted. Trump's son in law is Isn't this just a real estate deal? Is it just just real estate? Yeah. So look I I'm not a big fan of um Dumb and Dummer, Kushner and Witkoff. I think they're just like it's a very technical negotiation, right? The J C POA negotiation took eighteen. That's how long it took to cut a nuclear deal. The wish list on the Iranian side that they're demanding from the US is far more vast than that. It's like Get all your troops out of the Middle East, things of that nature. Does Vance getting involved? Give you any more confidence or hope that they can get some deal or maybe another ceasefire? I was this is reading tea leaves. Only in the sense that the Iranians think he is uh was negative about the war. If they believe that they maybe have an slightly better confidence to deal with h uh him. Obviously any credibility and I uh I believe zero for Wiccoff and Kushner. The idea that you had no experts that it's very clear from the UK who was in the room in Geneva, they didn't even know what they were being offered pre-the-war from the Iranians. Zero confidence. So I have some sense that maybe Vance will have a different level of respect. It gives you somebody new they can interlock. But remember they've been burnt twice. Once in June, this time in negotiations. So they're gonna come in it with Appropriately heavy, heavy cynicism. Let me Say one other thing which is and take this slightly different in the sense of advance. One. You can't unring this bell. But you can say okay, how do you kind of make l lemonade out of this lemon that we've cre that we have created. That's A. B. As I The Iranians went in we went into this war trying to degrade Iran's nuclear capacity. They discovered they had the nuclear option, the straight harm loss. The other thing C Iran since seventy nine has wanted to get the United States out of the uh Gulf and they become the Persian Empire again. That is their task. So how do you kind of undo this not in some way? My one view is on this on the short term. On the Strait of Her Moose, either all ships are out or no ships are out. And you're gonna cut off Iranian's money? in China's energy. Everybody's out or nobody's out. And it's easier to close something as the Iranians improve it, than for us to try to open it. So reverse the score. Second medium term. The Iranians want uh a fee. I think we go to the Interna uh the UN's international maritime. Entity. They run it. There is a fee charge, but it goes to Iran, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait, everybody who got suffered in this process, not just Iran. And that money the dollars or the resources are split. That way among all the countries and it's manage Bye. The United Nations Maritime Association. Third long term. Use the Abraham cords. beyond what it is is a peace agreement that we're a party to. It now finances I would it finances a pipeline for Kuwait. for the UAE, for Bahrain, et cetera, either to the O Gulf of Oman or to the Red Sea. So there's alternatives to the Strait of Hermuz. I would in addition Say to anybody who's part of the Abraham Accords has zero tariffs? And I would also say anybody the the Abraham Accords. gets uh front of the line on US military equipment. He would double down on America being a trusted ally. our golf partners. to me, short term, medium term, and long term is the best way to navigate. What is a Big giant lemon. Yeah. It's a it's a nightmare. Well let me offer you what I think might be some pushback to the plan. Sure. I'm I'm open to anything. That's just my idea. Uh if we joined. Trust me, this is more sophisticated than the situation. Much more sophisticated and thorough analysis. If we jointly close the Straight of Hamous with the Iranians, wouldn't that make a sort of a party to all the Potential famine that could happen if no fertilizer is getting. No doubt about it. But here's the other thing. You're trying to they are their economy is devastated. The only lifel they have are uh international uh the IV they have, rather? Is the what they're selling to China. Right. We do know now, you and I sitting here today, China was a party to pushing Iran to say yes. Right. There are elements that that then ruled, okay, we're gonna do that for the ceasefire. So if you shut off where China's getting their major energy? You say it will be I'm not saying this is pretty. No. We have never, ever the United States in two hundred fifty years Gone to war. And allow the other country financial security where our allies suffer. And I say enemies or opponents or whatever term you wanna use, both Iran and Russia. This is insane. Yeah. And so you're literally keeping whatever prop you have Tyran. And China, people that are trying to hurt you. you're actually giving them economic b benefit. So to me, yes, it would be chop. There's no, there's no perfect here. Right. But we're gonna shut it. We're not going to shut it with you. We're going to shut you down. You shut everybody else down. We're shutting you down. Yeah. At least that levels the playing field. I mean I also we're looking for leverage here. Right. We currently clearly the Iranians have shown us we don't have much. No. I mean and I think that's why Tucker's worried if we get to a nuclear option, because there's no a conventional military way to open the street of Hormuz from the air. You can't bomb it open if they're laying mines or just firing. I mean the other thing Lo going forward, when you look at like Trump's goals here, like first of all, the highly enriched uranium is still sitting in Iran. Doesn't sound like we're gonna get it back or get it out unless there's some deal cut. Um The big concern, right? They clearly degraded Iran's military. They bombed the shit out of a lot of stuff. Um, the other consideration was cutting off their support for proxy groups like Hezbollah. Hamas, et cetera. My concern is Um If they are now able to charge this toll at the Strait of Hormuz. that is going to be a massive That cannot be that cannot stand. That will go back to rebuilding their military funding has funding all these proxy groups, right? I mean it seems like again, this is Trump's problem he created, it just seems like There was always an implied Pressure. that implied that Iran could do this on the Straightway, but it's never was tested. It's now been tested and they discovered look I got an eight hundred on my SATs. Okay. They've never before Did they and everybody believed this? It was always an international order. The second thing, I mean. I want to go to the class at the arm uh war college. Ukraine and Iran have no navy and they've controlled the waterways. I wanna go to that class. I wanna study this. I'm serious about that. I think you know, you and I have sat there, but We have a doctrine to fight two wars on two fronts simultaneously, capacity to do that. We're gonna have to change the doctrine to be able to say we're gonna fight two wars, one conventional And one unconventional. And we're not set up that way, neither our military, our industrial base, or the capacity. Both of these theaters. Meaning what's happening in The Iran War and what's happened in uh Ukraine Russia war or Russia's war on Ukraine. has taught us an exponential lesson. that we are not ready for the unconventional asymmetric war. And we better. That's the second war. Now a March of twenty twenty five, a year ago, I wrote a piece for the Post, which is don't ask for Ukraine's minerals. for their drone technology. That's where they're experts at. Yeah. Now not only did we not ask for it. We rejected it when they offered a help. The president doesn't know friend from foe, and we are now stuck where Our Gulf allies are buying weapons from Ukraine. But we stiff darned them. Yeah. And they have no navy and they've destroyed the Russian Navy and the Black Sea. You we can claim, which appropriate, we have destroyed The Navy Of Iran. But they control the straight homosex. No navies and then control waterways. Yeah, that tells you where the future is. Somebody said the other day I read this, I can't remember who. America's won every war uh every battle but has lost each war. Sounds about right, since World War Two. Yeah. For sure. Um Shift Gear. So you've been crisscrossing the country, uh, you did a recent stop in New Hampshire. You're still not ruling out a twenty twenty eight presidential run. Any more definitive answer today? No, but I'll whisper. Exploring. No. Okay. I went there. I I went three places recently. Which is uh La Crosse, Wisconsin. into uh Franklin, uh New Hampshire. And then I've been in Spartanburg, uh, the corridor of shame in Abbeville. Piedmont area, uh the black uh counties, and then Columbia. And then Charleston. And that that was all about looking at community colleges and what uh both all three cities are doing, which I think incredibly innovative, things that we also did in Chicago between community colleges. But you know, leading into the future economy, but also linking up with high schools. Something that I think is the fundamental thing we have to flip the switch on. And the top issues I assume are whether Democrats should talk to leftist Twitch streamers is kind of like up here. Then it's like the economy. Oh. And then education. Let me well, I wouldn't go down there, but I would just say That was a joke. I I understand that. I'm gonna I'm just I always say I've done a Town Hall In La Crosse, Wisconsin. And a podcast there. Did it in uh met with Ten teachers, educators, parents. ten kids up in Franklin, New Hampshire. I did a in Manchester the eggs in politics thing. I did a at Waffert College. Uh, Craig Martin interviewed me there in front of uh the college. We went to a community college. I did four hundred People in Charleston. Nobody asked me about Soundbeger. No. Nobody. Nobody they ask me about how do they get ahead. Yeah. They ask me how they get an education. Now you know I'm uh the ticket to the middle class and getting ahead is through education. And you can't you know, we live in a period where you earn what you learn. Nobody's asked me that question. And I've had took close to about fifty questions from people. Yeah, it's from you know the billionth reminder that the conversation in DC in the media sometimes doesn't match what the country actually sometimes. Yeah, often I would say close to ninety percent does not match. It's a parallel universe. Yeah, it is. It yes. Uh so you did a a recent appearance on the View. You said D C needs a power washing because of all the corruption. Uh you also wrote an all uh Wall Street Journal column. uh talking about how Democrats could use a majority and you said the Democrats should steer clear of the gotcha politics and excessive focus on Trumpian slime. Is there a tension between those two appreciate this. Um maybe this is on me for not writing clear. I think I wrote in that piece. Not I think I know. There's a difference between corruption. And him being uh untruthful or a liar. I go one hundred percent. I've said this. As soon as I came back from uh Japan, twenty twenty four, December, I said, go after the corruption. Built when I was chair of the D Crible C? The house that Tom Delay built. The corruption? What's going on with the production markets? What's going on with Wake Offs kids, Lutnik's kids, them and people and the president's kids. A hundred percent when what Gnome's done at the DHS and the contracts that they provided, a hundred percent. There is a difference between that corruption, which matters to your wallet. our playing to type which is a retribution vindictive politics. Then they say, uh, Washington and they and they break the sound and they turn it on mute right when we should be turning to our agenda. There is a two sided here. Hit him on the corruption. and offer a proactive uh uh agenda. I actually think given where I've been, not only the s s states I just talked to you about. But other states. Washington does need a good power washing. Absolutely. Not just trading stocks in Congress. Did you ever think you would ever see uh investor day in the Oval Office? Or or yeah, or bets on, you know, invasions of a country. Or did you ever think a member of the court, not just Supreme Court, be taking gifts from people who have cases in front of them or trips? Okay. So the whole place needs to be clean. And what does that reform agenda look like? What like what do we proposed? One, I would raise the minimum wage. That's number one. Two. W well over September twenty twenty five, wrote uh August I wrote. And I believe there should be a rate payer bill of rights. Three. I would do X on healthcare cost control, specifically around the insurance companies gouging people. Breaking them up. Four. I would do a a ban on social media for kids under sixteen. I've called for this before, first on uh prediction markets, no federal employee or their family. Participate. I mean like reforming for Washington. So like stuff like that. Banning Cal she, banning stock trading. Banning all that. But also stocks. companies that you've been in if you have n X of Let's say your net value is north of just I'm putting the number out, million dollars, has to go into a blind trust. That's true for all federal employees. Second. Not just the Supreme Court, but any court, you're not allowed to take gifts. Be very specific on the ethics package that Roberts thinks, but doesn't enforce. Make it codify it. And that's also true for the president of the United States and family members and the cabinet. Now the other thing I said for and when you hit the age of seventy five pre-TSA because you're out of here. Done. Finish. Basta. You're not hitting your prime at seventy eight. that a lot. Um I'm gonna try to annoy you now. So you bought and sold some you bought and sold some individual stocks when you were ambassador to Japan. I know the American prospect wrote a piece criticizing the timing of one of those purchases because it came before a government announcement that they said could benefit the stock. Was that a mistake? Is there are there things you do differently? If I did it, uh it is it's t definitely a mistake. I don't know what that is, but uh definitely. You know, I look I did a blind trust when I was chief of staff when I was mayor. Well as Congressman. Also did it there when I as ambassador. So if anybody did it, I have no idea. Oh, it was a blind trust, yeah. Why doesn't everyone just do a blind trust? It seems so easy. That's what I just said. I'll give you a funny st not a funny story. I get elected to I get elected to Congress. And I'm gonna set up I'm getting financial services. I said I'm gonna set up a blind trust. Chairman Oxley comes to see me and says I don't want you to do this. I said, Well, I'm doing it because I'm a bare knuckle politician. I' something's gonna happen one day on a hearing that we're gonna do in financial service. I don't know what they're gonna do. So forget about it. And I did it for then. I did it uh also normizing and tell you, did it when I was chief of staff, and I did it when I was mayor. A hundred percent. It seems like a no brainer. I don't know why it's not. Well, I mean I'd be like, they've been arguing in two thousand and seven. I was a sponsor of a legislation that's related to Exactly this, which is stocks traded in uh in front of committees. In front of your committee, uh you can't have be involved or investor or trade stocks and committee uh other interests that have any any company that has interest in front of the committee. It's insane. Yeah. I mean I think this is an issue that But it's all of Washington. That's also includes the executive branch. Well yeah, and I think this is an issue that kind of drives people crazy because like It's a no-brainer. course members of Congress or the president's family or cabinet shouldn't be buying and selling individual stocks. Everyone should put their stuff in the blind trust. But it's in like the president of the United States will go before the State of the Union and and say that and say we're gonna pass legislation banning everyone stands up. He didn't talk about the executive branch and he didn't talk about the judicial branch. Well, of course, I guess what I'm getting at is He says that, but then people are also well aware that, you know, Nancy Pelosi's husband has made a shitload of money. trading individual stocks. And there's a lot of people that track that index and feel like, you know, that's why I've said the whole Washington There's no individual Or no one of the three branches of government that you're gonna get without a blemish. The only way to do it? Everybody. for that. Um just gonna ask you a couple more issues. I think progressives will push you on if you do decide to run for president in twenty twenty eight. So no different than me pushing myself. Good. So uh you were mayor of Chicago uh when a young man named Laquan McDonald was shot sixteen times by a police officer. Your administration Uh had a video. of that uh uh of his killing for over a year until a court ordered it released. You didn't release it until the court order. What do you say to people who are angry, not just about, you know, the Chicago PD? Killing this kid, but also what they feel like was a cover up to evade accountability. So There's not a day or a week that goes by that I don't think about this. What I could have done different. Young man lost his life innocently. Third. Is I thought I'd A year earlier, two years earlier, fix the system. And I acknowledge. When I said it to this whole city spoke. I thought I fixed 'em and the problems were much deeper than I appreciated. Might have wanted to think I thought I fixed it. when the gulf between the community in the police department and the culture in the police department which much deeper. And I said, that's on me. I have to fix this. I own that. No, you know this. Chicago's not alone. No cities alone, given what's happened on police departments across the country. And I did go about Fixing it. But as the inspector general said. I actually the problem is I followed the rules. Because with the last thing you want Is a mayor. involved in making a political decision when the FBI the what's IPR, which is the police department's uh independent body. Everybody's investigating? You don't want them. mayor involving themselves, then you say you cri you're politicizing a criminal investigation. The FBI was involved, the U S attorneys was involved, the States there were four entities investigating. So if you don't involve yourself. You're part of covering up if you do involve, you politicize an investigation in danger the prosecution. In Chicago, the police officer actually was prosecuted and convicted. That doesn't change anything. That's on me. I own it. As you know one thing, the difference between a legislator and somebody who's a mayor? It's lessons learned going forward. And so you have to make chang you have to make changes. I did it. And in this process Telling. His uncle, who's a pastor on the West Side, Laquan. He and I have become really good at cell phone. There's not a week that goes by that we don't talk or communicate in one way. Screw up? Yeah. If you're looking for perfection, I'm not that guy. Do it. If you're looking for a person that knows how to learn from mistakes, a hundred percent. Yeah. fight within the party has been generational. I mean you said a minute ago you I think wanna get your P T S A pre check because you're getting out of here at seventy eight, right? Um seventy five. Seventy five, sorry. So I love that. Uh I think we need a new generation at least. I think when I first said it you t you texted me and said Yeah. Fuck yeah, man. Good for you. I don't think that people in D C are internalizing your message, right? I mean there's this this fight is playing out most clearly in Maine where it's Chuck Schumer is really thumbing the scale. on behalf of uh former governor Janet Mills, um the grassroots seem to be behind Grant Platiner. God knows who will win, but you know, this, it doesn't seem like Schumer is concerned about the whole conversation we just had about Joe Biden's age. Um How do we fix that? And what do you say to like, you know? Young activists who you might meet in Iowa or New Hampshire or whatever who were like well look, you know the You worked in the Clinton administration. What is like what does the next generation look like? Right? Are are we paying lip service to this? Or are we really So the way I I look at it is a couple things. Uh One. is there is a generational piece to that. As you know. All your strengths are your weaknesses. After Donald Trump, I'm not sure if we can afford as a country on your job training. I say it jokingly, but I'm serious. You gotta be good at uh in the family room? You better be good in the classroom? You better know the boardroom, the break room, the situation room, and not just the bathroom, which is something we really get experts as a party. Now I other think also one piece of change with a party that's known as weak. There's nothing as you know. When it came to fighting The insurance companies gave ten million kids health care? One person got that assignment. When it came to making sure we got health care for people with pre existing condition? One person had to leave that effort. When it came to making sure we took on the financial industry and the banking industry to be do fundamental reform? One person got that call to lead that effort. And take on the gun lobby and N R A. Nobody's ever gotten in the ring with me. Didn't walk out without a bloody nose. Or a broken nose. Asked the Republicans when they saw Nancy Pelosi become the first female speaker. I make no more and I will say this otherwise. Yeah, why I got I got twenty yeah. Yeah, I'll sell you one for cheap on eBay. I got t I got twenty thousand kids that got free community college. Because I was willing to take on a failed system. I got Kids that used to have a fifty six percent graduation rate and eighty four percent of them now graduate high school with a degree and college credit and have a mandatory Letter of acceptance from either college, community college, branch of the armed forces, or vocational school. Ninety eight percent of our kids in Chicago achieve that. I have Took on a bureaucracy. Where we didn't have kindergarten or pre K throughout the city. And I made a Republican finally increase the funding to the city of Chicago, which has been every mayor's desire. Got something done that hadn't happened before. Do I take on failure? Damn right, because I'm a lucky guy. I had a grew up in a family that an immigrant family. That had love and education. question is, are you willing to sit there and husband your political capital or spend it and take it on? Nobody who's walked in the arena with me. Did not walk out. without without having a broken nose. More than willing to say that. And if you want Just generational change? I'm that. You want somebody that knows how to take on a fight and win? That's a different battle. pitch. Uh last question for you. So last. I was just getting kinda into this. You know, this is fun. Oh uh two thousand six. Things went really well for Democrats in the midterms. You noticed you were leading that effort in the House. I was sitting on my ass in the Senate working for Barack Obama, but you know, I was watching what you're doing. Um So you were the scheduling problem. It's like uh sorry, he's got to write his book. Um Chapter one. Democrats keep overperforming in these special elections. The most recent one and the biggest overperformance or biggest swing to Democrats just happened in Georgia, Georgia 14, Marjorie Taylor. district. I'll give you a different view. Okay. Well that that what we took literally racked up uh Bashar al Assad numbers in uh in in Madison in this most recent Supreme Court meeting. No, I'll tell why. No, just something different. I'll let you want to finish the question. I feel better. I feel increasingly bullish. I think the question is how do you close the deal? Is it about Democrats getting out and making an affirmative case and fighting? Or you know, you see some other people that say Crouch up. hide under the table until the day after the election. Neither one is right. First of all, ninety percent of this race is a referendum on the president and the rubber stamp Republicans. That was true in nineteen ninety four. It was true in 2006 about Bush. It was true in 2010 about President Obama and the Democrats and it's true in 2018 about Donald Trump and the Republicans. This is a referendum election. And I can tell you we haven't gone all over this country. It's building ahead of steam. This is gonna be level five type hurricane. Two. Th side note, why I think Wisconsin. One of the last three Supreme Court biggest one was just the other day. Yeah, monster. Second. We've now fourteen for fourteen in statewide elections, haven't lost one. Third, we picked up. The suburban county outside of Milwaukee where the Republicans used to balance against Milwaukee? picked up the county exf. Th fourth. in the third district, which is the southwest corner where La Crosse is, where I went in for Uh Rebecca Cook. We're the Republican member of Congress there. The Supreme Court canate our canate took fifty seven percent of the vote there. Donald Trump won that county overwhelmingly. It used to be where Ron Kind was Congressman. The Wisconsin numbers in a battleground state were not just good on the Supreme Court. You go two, three layers down unbelievable. Yeah. And I think uh what I would say is keep the focus on the Republicans, keep the focus on the fact that they've been complicit with Donald Trump. do have argued this before. I would present a six in twenty tw twenty six. Not because anybody remembers the six in oh six or the contract with America? You should have it. A it helps you focus on twenty twenty seven what your priorities are. It creates a discipline dialogue inside the party, what we're gonna stand for. Bec and it will not just help in twenty twenty six. Twenty twenty seven will be the seminal year that will decide. for us, who we are and what we're defined for in twenty twenty eight. And when we ran health care, children's health care, the renewal. negotiated for President Clinton, led the effort in the House. with Speaker Pelosi. force Bush to d uh veto it, sixty Republicans were the Democrats, it sets up Obama in a way. When George Mitchell in nineteen ninety gets Bush forty one. to sign a tax increase. breaks up the Republican Party, Pat Buchanan challenges a sitting Republican president and it steps up s Bill Clinton in nineteen ninety two. So I believe do the work now. Both not only for twenty twenty six. for the discipline of twenty twenty seven. One of those is gonna break through and get to the president's desk. If he signs it, you want it to be something that divides the Republicans from him. If he vetoes it, you want to make sure it also divides the Republicans from him. goal there then says who we are. And who they are. Yeah. I I I agree. I I think Running against Trump is important and we should continue to do it. I still think we have a massive problem as a party of people not Knowing who we are or or not knowing what we stand for and maybe not liking it as they do. Tommy, there's three there's three or four layers here. Not knowing what we who we stand for, not knowing whether we'll fight for The reason I'm going around these community colleges. Forty percent of the people in America. go to community colleges that go to higher education. These are the unseen, unheard, unrespected folks. I know what I did to reform the community colleges of Chicago. And what we did to make sure that people that went there can walk in and say, I went to Malcolm X and get that nursing job at Rush Presbyterian Hospital. Or the guy I met in Spartanburg. who's working on mechanical skills and he has a thirty three buc an hour plus benefits job waiting at GE for him on May eleventh. To me. can't just say these things that sound great in faculty lounges or papers. You gotta und you actually have to feel. people that are under the intense pressure. not only have an agenda for them, but then willing to take on and break some eggs to get it done. And our party hasn't. Just hasn't. It's not just about It's about calculus. It's not just about social media posts. It's actually about social studies. And we haven't prioritized the right things. We just have it and we have to be acknowledged about that. And we got ourselves caught. I've said this before and I'll say it again, in a cultural cul de sac going around in circles. We were off. The American people When their back's against the wall, they expect Democrats to show up. They don't think Republicans would show up because they know they're in the boardroom c cutting up the pie. They expect us to show up, and we did not show up for them. We deserve to spank it. Yeah, we got one. Yeah. Uh Robin Manuel, great to see you again. Thanks for coming. Yeah, we solved all the world problems. Yeah, we got it. We're good. All right. That's our show for today, thanks to Rom for stopping by. And I'll be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with none other than Hasan Piker. That's right. Rahm Emanuel was here today. Hasanbiker will be here tomorrow and then I will be closing all of my apps for the weekend. Yeah, I'm gonna be closely monitoring your social media usage uh starting Sunday at six AM. Yep, nope, you can complain all you want. I'm sure the the clips can be everywhere, much like Melania. I don't know. I think he's uh Twitch. I don't know what it's going to be. Twitch Twitch Twitch. Anyway, have a good weekend, everyone. Bye, everyone. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to Cricket.com slash friends to subscribe on Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review. That helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Cricket. PodSave America is a Crooked Media production. 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