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You also get bonus content like uh our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends, Dan Pfeiffer's Polar Coaster. You also get access to all of our excellent substack newsletters like Pods of America open tabs and tons more great content. So stop what you're doing right now and go ahead and subscribe at Cricut.com/slash Fresh friends, check it out. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favra. I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, we're gonna talk about how Donald Trump's revenge tour is backfiring in a way that just about everybody could have predicted. Uh, with everything from his ballroom funding to his insurrectionist slush fund now in jeopardy. Uh, we'll also talk about how Trump may have made things even worse for his party with his endorsement of Ken Paxton over John Cornyn in Texas. Uh, and then just to prove that Republicans aren't the only ones stepping on rakes, we'll talk about the long-awaited release of the 2024 DNC autopsy and whether Ken Martin's job as DNC chair is in jeopardy. We'll also talk about new results from this week's New York Times poll focused on what Democratic voters want from the Democratic Party. Uh, then you'll hear Tommy's interview with California gubernatorial candidate Matt Mahan. And finally, we'll explore the question none of us thought we'd have to ask: is Donald Trump gonna skip his son's wedding? Tune in to find out. Um before we start, uh go ahead and subscribe to uh Friends of the Pod. Become a Crooked Subscriber if you haven't already, because you get ad-free episodes of all of these pods that you love and listen to. Uh, you get access to all of our excellent Substack newsletter. You get access to subscriber-only podcasts that you're missing out on if you're not a subscriber, like Dan's Polar Coaster Podcast, where he dives deep into polls, and Podsave America Only Friends, our extra secret episode of Podsave America, um that we do every other week. So check it out, and you also get to support pro-democracy independent media. Um in this case us, crooked media. So crooked.com slash friends, uh go subscribe today. All right. Let's get to the news. It seems like just yesterday, because it was , that the White House warned us to never again doubt Donald Trump's political power, and certain journalists proclaimed an incredible few weeks for the president's political operation. Uh this is all because Trump's handpicked primary challengers defeated Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy and Kentucky Congressman Thomas Massey. Well, twenty-four hours later, uh here's a text from a Republican senator to Punch Bowl News. Quote: Our majority is melting down before our eyes . So what happened? What happened? Uh well, the Senate was supposed to be voting on Trump's bill to fund ICE, but then he also demanded one billion dollars for his ballroom, and he announced that he's stealing two billion dollars from taxpayers so that he can potentially hand out cash payments to January 6th rioters who almost killed police officers , and basically anyone else he thinks has been mistreated by the justice system. Neither of these things sat very well with some Republicans, including people like Bill Cassidy, whose career Trump just ended. And after a reportedly tense meeting about the insurrectionist slush fund with uh acting attorney general Todd Blanche, where some Republicans proposed restrictions on the slush fund, Senate Majority Leader John Thune canceled the vote entirely and told everyone to go home until June. Um, here's Blanche and JD Vance earlier in the week refusing to rule out taxpayer-funded payouts for viol ent insurrectionists. You know who never ever gets an ounce of sympathy when it comes to that disproportionate sentencing is people who voted for Donald Trump and participated in the January 6th protest. Will individuals who assaulted Capitol Hill police officers be eligible for this fund? Well, as it makes plain, any was made plain yesterday, anybody in this country is eligible to apply. You're not gonna submit this proposal to any federal judge or independent. There is no judge. Any independent authority? An independent What does that mean an independent authority? It means not somebody who's getting to pick five of the members who were the president's former personal attorney. That would be somebody who would be independent. I'm the acting attorney general, okay? The fact that I used to be President Trump's lawyer is just a fact, but I'm the acting attorney general. So don't say the president's former personal lawyer will do something. The acting attorney general will do something. Mr. Attorney General, you are acting today like the President's personal attorney. And that's the whole problem. That's the good shit right there. It's the good shit. What a fucking whiner . Uh so after Senate Republicans uh were in revolt and the majority was melting down, Trump was asked about it uh in the oval on Thursday . Um here's what he said. Are you losing control of the Senate Senate Republic? I don't know. I really don't know. I can tell you I only do what's right. Uh I don't need money for the ballroom. You're not making a gift of the ballroom. This is Okay. Just an incredible week. Incredible. Truly. Unbelievable. Let's start with the slush fund. You and I talked about this uh on last Friday's episode, and we talked about um how Trump potentially settling the IRS lawsuit by person ally pocketing billions in taxpayer dollars was maybe the worst political move we could imagine. Um and then they did the slush fund um right as we were finishing the recording so we only briefly get to talk about it. Um what do you think? What do you think about the uh the political move of instead of Trump just pocketing the cash, uh deciding to put it in a fund with no accountability whatsoever so they can secretly pay out whoever they'd like. Look, these brilliant fucking geniuses in the Trump political team, the same ones who spent twenty million dollars to defeat a congr Republican congressman in a district that Trump won by thirty five points, uh really figure this one out. So in stead of giving billions of dollars to one criminal , they're going to give one point seven seven six billion, which is so clever, to an untold number of criminals, many of whom committed violent offenses, assaulting the Capitol and assaulting police officers. Yep. It's a true it is it is a move so bad that even Republican senators can figure out It's fun watching the Republicans freak out about this and everything fall apart. But um NPR uh did a story about it where um they, you know, started going through some of the potential January sixth uh convicted felons or or people who were going to be on trial until Trump pardoned him uh to talk about how this would play out. Um this guy Jake Lang, uh, he admitted to using a bat to attack police. He was on trial for assault when Trump pardoned him. He's now a white power activist who's on video saying the N-word and giving Nazi salutes. When NPR called to confirm that he plans to apply for a payout, um, which he did, he confirmed it. He answered the phone, Jake Lang's office, America's newest billionaire . And he said that the message, he told NPR, that the message Trump was sending what the fund is, and this is a quote from the insurrectionist who beat police officers with a bat. Quote, If you do the right thing in the face of evil, you will be rewarded for your bravery and patriotism . That's what's happening there. That's what's happening. Uh another, another uh January 6th writer, Andrew Paul Johnson, is currently serving a life sentence in prison for sexually abusing two children. Um, who he tried to keep quiet uh by promising them, quote, my Trump bucks that he expected to get as part of a restitution fund. And then that exchange we watched between Van Hollen and Blanche, Van Holland was asking about that case and and asking Blanche to rule out that that fucking guy could apply for a payout from this slush fund. And you heard Blanche like he just he won't rule it out. I mean it's pretty clear what happened here is Trump w anted his money. I think he someone was able to convince him that him directly taking the money was probably a bridge too far politically. And plus, he's made so many other billions from so many other crooked schemes that he could take a pass on this one. But he obviously wasn't gonna let it go. And they were facing this deadline, because if they did, because there were there's a court and post-deadline. So right the day before the court and post-deadline, they hatched together a poorly thought-out plan that they thought would appeal to Trump, right? It's not as bad as Trump getting the money, although that is actually debatable, uh, but would, you know, it would still fit with his need for revenge. And it's pretty it's like perfect Trump. Like these people, these are my people. I'm gonna help my people. I'm gonna hook up my people. And they didn't think through any of the consequences. They just assumed every Republican would be for it. And they, as you said, they stepped on a rake. It's like a very obvious, very, very clear politically damaging rake, but they did it because they're kind of morons. And there's no oversight, no accountability over this fund whatsoever. Um we may never know who they pay, how much they pay them, who applies, who gets who gets accepted into this fucking slush fund, who gets denied. None of that because uh Trump picks the people on the board, except for one gets appointed by Congress, who, you know, he can find a lackey in Congress to give him whoever he wants. Trump can fire them at any time. The report is not required to be released to the public in any way, shape or form. So the whole thing is just a fucking scam . And it seems like it's I mean, I guess two January 6th uh police officers filed a lawsuit um uh to try to stop this, but there are are gonna be I guess that's the best um case they can make for standing, right? Because they were police officers harmed in this. Um, but the challenge is to have like who has standing to sue on this, and the fact that it is a uh it is legal because Congress passed a law to give the justice department basically an unlimited fund for rest itution in the event that people sue the U.S. government. And then the Justice Department would have to pay it out. Which is like, yeah, of course, right? If someone sues the federal government and they and they win, the federal government has to get the money from somewhere to pay them out. But I don't think anyone envisioned um that uh the fund would be used in this way. Nope. Just driving a corrupt truck through another giant loophole in our system. Uh here's a statement on the on the fund. So the nation's top law enforcement official is asking for a slush fund to pay people who assault cops. Utterly stupid, morally wrong. Take your pick. Guess who that came from, Dan ? I th I know the answer, so I'm supposed to pretend like I don't. No, no. Was that was that a resistance democrat? Was that someone on MS Now? Was that a po was that was that on Wednesday's episode of OnlyFriends with you and Tom It was subscribe now. Mitch McConnell. Mitch McConnell. Um well, Mitch, the reason we're in this place, by the way, is because of you. Yep. If you would just had the courage that could have could have Mike Ben Sad. Could have convicted him uh after January 6th, and then none of these riders would be getting any money. Um how likely do you think it is that Congress will impose some kind of restrictions on the slush fund. Legislation was introduced today, Thursday, to ban the entire slush fund, not restrictions, just ban it. That was that was by um introduced by Democrat Tom Swazi in the House and Republican Brian Fitzpatrick, who's in a swing district in Pennsylvania, and who Trump just threatened yesterday with a primary challenge in response to a question he didn't like from Fitzpatrick's fiancé, Fox News reporter Jackie Heinrich. Well, it's really clever of Trump to uh threaten a primary challenge on Wednesday when the primary was Tuesday . Which is also it's notable that all of a sudden Brian Fitzpatrick has found his courage the day after his primary. Yeah. Do you think I mean n I know that we were like not scheduled to talk about this, but on that note, like I I do wonder if a lot like we're we're suddenly gonna see an outbreak of courage among Republicans now that most of the primaries have passed. It's gonna be an interesting political calculus. Like someone like Fitzpatrick who is in he is might be the most vulnerable Republican in the country. Um or definitely he is one second. He's he he is up there. Um we got some people who have been redistricted out of existence, but of the people who remain in their previous district, he's quite vulnerable. And but there is this challenge for Republicans, which is on one hand, Trump attacking you would seem favor able. Like just hit if I was Fitzpatrick, I would think in that district and think about taking the vi the footage of Trump saying that he votes against them all the time and put it in an ad. Don't go minded. But in most but the the challenge is they also need Republican turnout. And if Trump is trashing you, are the people going to turn out for you? And that's the that's the real question. Yeah, that is a good point. Well so then what do you think about getting restrictions on this flush fund? Because it does seem like they're going for uh restrictions in this ICE funding bill, which is reconciliation, which means that you would only need, you know, fifty one votes in the Senate. There's two things happening here. One is, as we mentioned, the Republicans recognize this is terrible politics and they don't want to vote for it and they they know how bad it is. They feel the same way about the ballroom, which we'll talk about in a second. The other thing that's happening in the Senate is these people are just pissed at Trump. Like they he took out Tom Tillis and you know Tom Tillis retired rather than face a primary challenge, but Roy Cooper is much more likely the next senator of North Carolina because he's running against an anonymous RNC chair that uh Trump installed as the nominee. They took out Bill Cassidy . They he just endorsed, as we'll talk about, just endorsed against John Cornyn, the number two person in the Senate for Republicans. And so he's basically taking out their people. And so they're they're both pissed like on this personal level, that he keeps taking out their friends, but they're also he's making in almost all of these cases, he's making it less likely they keep the majority. And so I think they're starting to get restive here and are looking for some place to show that they have some measure of spine. Now, are the restrictions they're going to put in be gonna likely be pretty weak? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's that that's the case. But I I would be surprised. I would be surprised. And I no one's ever made a lot of money betting on congressional Republicans to do something bra brave. But I would be surprised if this bill passed without some measure of re something that at least is a putative fig leaf of restriction on the slush fund. The challenge here is I don't think they get any um they're not going to get any democratic votes for it, right? Even though even though Democrats would want to ban this, if it goes in the ICE funding bill, the restrictions, Democrats aren't gonna vote for the ICE funding. Well you'll get it on the amendment in the b in the Votorama to put it in the case. Oh, so Democrats can get it in there and then vote against the thing. I just way outstripped my expertise on Senate budget procedure, but I think that's right. Today's show is sponsored by strawberry.me. You think about switching jobs? Maybe ask yourself these questions.. 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Make sure you enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helix sleep.com slash crooked . Next up, the billion dollars Trump wants for his ballroom, which he then just said he doesn't need. On Saturday, the Senate parliamentarian ruled that the money couldn't be included in the ICE funding bill because it doesn't comply with the Senate's budget rules. Trump then demanded that Republicans fire the parliamentarian, um, but Republicans decided to remove the funding instead of the parliamentarian, um, admitting that they didn't have the votes anyway, probably because enough of them realized that asking taxpayers to fork over a billion dollars for a ballroom no one asked for is uh fucking crazy. Uh Trump, meanwhile, took reporters on a tour of the construction site this week, uh, which is, you know, that's his passion. Um, and he defended the project as a military necessity. And he said that the roof would be a drone port that protects all of Washington? Does he think it's is there's like an iron dome over the White House now in Washington because of the 'cause the that's what the ballroom is? He also announced how many stories No. No. Uh is the ballroom in jeopardy? Like, does Trump Trump then said he doesn't need the money? It seems like he wanted the money pretty badly, which is why he told them to fire the parliamentarian and is getting really pissed about this. Is he gonna find a way to just steal the money from taxpayers like he's been doing now with this slush fund for insurrectionist s or maybe he just extorts more rich people with business before the government to just give donations? I won't Yeah, it's it's hard to say. I once again it seems that no one in Congress wants to vote for a billion dollars for a ballroom. And th they're gonna try as Trump is trying to do the way he's trying to well it's the ballroom's paid for by all the rich people who uh were buying access in terms in exchange for the ballroom, but it's the security, the necessary security underneath the ballroom that is that cost a billion dollars. It's too late for that. It's the one billion dollar ballroom, that's why everyone understands it. An actual impressive uh democratic messaging victory in this day and age. So we should applaud that . Maybe Elon Musk, fresh off the SpaceX IPO, comes in and gives a billion dollars to build the rest of it, but I don't know how they're gonna get it, doesn't seem like they're gonna be able to get money out of Congress for this this year. No one wants to do this this close to the election. Maybe they can throw something into an end-of-the-ardeal after the election. I don't know, but seems hard. And I don't think that um I think that the reason they asked for con ask Congress for the money in the first place is they can't necess they can't use private donations to fund like security service and security. Yeah. But then that's as in something before we did I think I mean who do do we we let let Michael Dell pay our troops once? Do you see the news that um he also said he doesn't need congressional approval to build his uh 2 50-foot uh arc? I have to say I've tried really hard to. I think it's an arch. Arch. And it's an architect. Sorry. Yes. The fuck it is. We got arches. We got ballrooms. We got Qatari jets. We got I don't know. I've lost track. We got can't we got new Kennedy Centers. We have new marble armrests at the Kennedy Center, right? We have new marble armrests. New helipad. We got a new helipad coming. The drone port. I've tried really hard to not focus on the arch, as you call it. On the arch. It just seems I mean, it seems crazy. I don't know. It I I finally today, because we're doing this on the podcast, I finally looked at where the arch was gonna be. It's in Virginia. Uh or it's across the river. But it also like I I the New York Times did a good like sort of AI rendering of of what the views would be. like And it kind of just like it blocks the view of the Lincoln Memorial and Arlington Cemetery. It's like bigger than anything else in Washington. It just like if I I mean yeah if I was a if I was a DC resident, I'd be fucking annoyed, but well like no one's asking for it. Oh no and the reflecting pool. Don't forget the reflect we forgot the reflecting power. Yeah, we are also Yeah, we are re repainting the reflecting pool. Once again at taxpayer dollars, I believe. It's just it's declining empire shit . It just he is obsessed with home renovation projects. Like this is like that is his true passion. He cannot be bothered with stealing money, revenge, and interior design. It's like the most cartoonish version of corruption by like an aging dictator. He's just stealing money, cat, you know, smash and grab anywhere he can. He's just putting gold everywhere, ensconced in his fucking uh DC home that he's turning into fucking Versailles on the Potomac, uh, you know, pardoning all of his friends, punishing all of his enemies, doing nothing else , decomposing before our eyes. It's just like Yeah. It's fucking bleak. It's fucking bleak, man. Um one more vote Trump's having trouble with uh in part because he ended the careers of Republicans whose support he needs, uh, a measure that would force him to end the war in Iran. On Tuesday, the Senate finally voted to take up the war powers resolution with newly defeated Senator Bill Cassidy flipping to vote in favor. Uh the resolution now moves to the House, uh, where retiring Maine Democrat Jared Golden says he now plans to flip his vote in favor as well. And all this comes as Iran is reviewing the latest U.S. peace proposal, which Trump says he'll give them a few days to do. He also said that the U.S. and Iran are quote right on the borderline between war and peace, and that he's quote, in no hurry to make a deal as the price of gas inches towards five dollars a gallon. What do you make of the latest developments in Iran and the shift of Republicans now being in favor of the war powers resolution? Just the cycle. It's every week. We wake up on Monday. There is a either a truth social or an Axios post with multiple sirens that tells us that we're on the verge of a deal. We are right there. They're circling around it. That reality lasts like five hours. Then we are on the verge of war. Trump is right. We really are on the verge of both. Then we are making war plans. We're threatening to bomb people. We're ending civilizations. And then at the moment right before the bombing is set to begin. Things get tacoed, and we are back to stalemate. And it's just we've been on rinse and repeat of this cycle for weeks now. I will say that each with each and each new draft of the peace proposal looks less like peace and more like a meaningless extension of a ceasefire. Yeah, well this yeah the the latest one is the latest one is just like this will be like a memo that gives thirty days for peace negotiations, but like nothing happens within those like the strait doesn't open in those 30 days. It's basically just where we are right now, but a more formal ceasefire for another 30 days. Well, what have they been doing for the last thirty days? I know. I think that's different. I don't even understand what the point of the memo is. Like theoretically people are talking somewhere, right? People are talking somewhere. To continue to kick the ball down the road without having to give anything up because they don't want to get bombed again because Trump keeps inching closer to resuming just hostilities. And BB uh is reportedly pushing him towards that as well. Apparently there's like a tense call between Trump and Netanyahu, where Trump was like, give peace a chance. Um, and uh and Netanyahu obviously was like, no, let's bomb the shit out of them. And so um, yeah, like would I be would I be shocked if this time we actually get some kind of a deal this weekend? No, but I would be shocked if it was actually a meaningful peace deal that ended the hostilities and actually for permanent. What do you think is more likely this week end? We take a step towards peace, and I'm not a bit not peace, but even like some one on a memorandum of something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or we invade Cuba. Oh. I think Cuba's highly more likely. Oh, I think peace. I think I mean not peace. Can I just say the memo? I say memo over Cuba. But Cuba who knows? When we're doing rapid response three hours after this uh the rapid response in the middle of its wedding about the Cuba invasion. Yeah, they will will I not be doing rapid response there. Tom Tommy has to do it. He's got to speak to the bar. We can wave to Tommy. Um all right. Um one other rake Trump stepped on this week that we gotta talk about. You mentioned this. The president has endorsed scandal plagued Ken Paxton over incumbent John Cornyn in the Texas Senate primary runoff, much to the delight of Democrats uh and dismay of Senate Republicans. Trump called Cornyn, quote, a good man, um, but said that he wasn't there for him when he needed him, when times were tough. And then he dubbed Paxton a true MAGA warrior, uh, who would presumably vote for all the ballroom funding and insurrection is payouts that Trump asked for. Uh and the Save Act. That's the big one. The Save Act, right. Remember the Save Act we talked about forever and then that's just that's dead. Um yeah, I guess to Ken Paxton would revive it in the next Congress. Uh runoff is Tuesda y. What do you make of Trump's decision? What do you think ? A truly insane decision. It's in the immediate aftermath, let's just go back in time, a couple months to the Texas primary, which honestly feels like 10 years ago, but Cor nyn did better than anyone expected. The assumption was that Trump said he was going to make an endorsement. Everyone assumed he was going to endorse Cornyn. Paxton was going to have if Corny Trump had done that, Paxton would have probably had to drop out. His campaign would have dried up, and Cornyn would be the nominee. Instead, he invaded Iran instead of focusing on this, dithered for a long time, could have just stayed silent, and then endorsed Ken Paxton with a week to go , almost ensuring that Ken Paxton will be the nominee. Ken Paxton is, by every measure, less electable than John Cornyn. We've seen this in the polling. There is a slice of Republicans who will vote for Cornyn over Talarico, but will vote for Talarico over Paxton . And just like he is so like this is the example he's so focused on vengeance that he decided to go after Jen Cornyn. We were already we already just talked about the p the um the consequences in the Senate, and just even more practically, like this day, I think the re I think cookok the co political report moved this to lean republican they said they they said they will if they will they will if if court if uh Paxton is the nominee but so and they probably still have advantages here, but the NRSC, all the super packs are gonna have to spend ungodly amounts of money in this race to try to just win a state that should the seat they should have already won. All because Trump just could not help himself. Could you make a political argument? And I I realize it wouldn't be a good one, it's not one that I favor, um, that it's possible John Cornyn would be a weaker candidate than Ken Paxton because i Cor the Trump, like the hardcore MAGA base, would be pissed and maybe stay home if Cornyn was the nominee, and so you would sort of and you need turnout in a midterm. Like is that is that a thing? Have made that argument if Corny was we may make that argument if Corning wins the primary on Tuesday. So stay tuned. Hey, that's not tune into next week's next week's polar coaster. That's not what we do here. I think that argument is hard to support. I mean, I uh look, if you all it the pol ling shows that um Talerico does better against Paxton than Cornyn, but uh only by a c a point or two in some of this polling, which in Texas could be everything, of course. Probably would be everything. He's not winning by more by more than a point or two, FYI. Right, right, right. But I I thought that the delta between the two in the polling would be bigger than it has been. Now there haven't been that many polls, but you know And then there's also uh in these pollss there' you know like 10 to 12 percent undecided. And we have to look and see who makes up that undecided, but then undecided if you are in Texas, I just I think that it just is it's it's like let's not overcomplicate this. Ken Paxton is a man who is an absolute crook, a serial adult or a fucking lunatic, and he's terrible at raising money. His own staff called the FBI on him. His own staff that to me is my f that's my favorite thing. Yeah. And no one here, right? Nice. Check checking. Um they're all the way to the left. But Paxson's such a perfect foil for Tel Rico. This nice, thoughtful guy who can talk about his religion, is faithful. Like it just, they're the exact opposite of each other. And that is, that it really helps Tel Rico in a way that is, it's not just Republican Democrats, like a good person, a bad person. And that that is going to help Tel Rico. There's we can pr we can pretend like Corny, because he sucks as a politician and isn't very good on the stump. And it's kind of a there he puts on a cowboy hat every year for an ad and he looks fucking ridiculous in it. Um it looks like it's basically photoshopped on his head. Um but Paxton running against Paxton is way better for Telurico than Cornyn. Yeah, I mean I get you make the argument that that Cornyn basically is generic Republican in in a a in a ballot, and Paxton is less is is is more vulnerable than a generic Republican because he again is uh committed bribery and corruption and adultery. But think about how close Beto came to beating . Tommy and I talked about this on OnlyFriends, which I was like, there's there's like three factors here, right? It's three questions for does Talerico win? Do you think the overall national environment is bluer than it was in twenty eighteen. Do you think Talarico is a better candidate than Beto? And then do you think um Paxton is a worse candidate than Ted Cruz? I think on all three measures this is better for Talarico than it was for Beto. And Beto came within three points. Yeah. I think that's probably right. Well, no, those last three points, that is a long fucking mile to cross to Texas. I also said that that's where I came down. I'm like, and he could do better than Beto and still lose by just a little. But uh you know I think he's a I think he's a special candidate. I I have for a long time. I know you do too, and like I think you know everyone should be able to rico right now in this environment against Ken Paxton. Yeah. This episode is brought to you by the Obama Foundation. Democracy doesn't defend itself. It needs people willing to fight for it. That's why the Obama Found ation is committed to training the next generation of leaders, building communities, and strengthening our democracy. This summer, the Obama Presidential Center opens as a global hub for change, providing emerging leaders with the tools and resources they need to make a real difference in their communities, our country, and our world. But none of that happens without you. These leaders need support now and your donation makes that possible. Years from now, when you look back on this moment in history, you'll want to say you stepped off the sidelines. So don't wait . Join the movement for change. Donate to the Obama Foundation at Obama.org/slash pod . Hey crooked listeners. If you haven't become a friend of the pod yet, you are missing out on exclusive bonus content that drops every single week. If you do join, you're helping us uh you know grow crooked media, which is one of the few independent, proudly pro-democracy media companies left in Trump's America. If you join, you also get ad-free episodes of all your favorite pods, add-free episodes of Pod Save America, love it or leave it, offline, pod save the world. You also get bonus content like uh our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends, Dan Pfeiffer's Polar Coaster. You also get access to all of our excellent Substack newsletters like PodSave America open tabs and tons more great content. So stop what you're doing right now and go ahead and subscribe at Crooked.com/slash friends. Check it out. Alright, and some breaking news this morning on the 2024 DNC autopsy. Ken Martin finally agreed to release the full text of the report, which CNN published after the uproar that followed his interview with us a few weeks ago. This is from Martin's statement. Quote I didn't want to create a distraction, but by not putting the report out, I ended up creating an even bigger distraction. For that, I sincerely apologize. He also said, quote, It does not meet my standards and it won't meet your standards, but I am doing this because people need to be able to trust the Democratic Party and trust our word . Well, I agree with him there . Uh the 192-page report is um riddled with inaccuracies, at times incoherent, uh ultimately incomplete, the section headlined conclusion uh comes with an annotation that says this section was not provided by the author . Still you need to know. Um there's also no mention of Biden's decision to run again, his age, Gaza, inflation. Um Dan, do you have some you have some thoughts you'd like to share? I feel like I've said plenty on this. You 'll have more to say, I hope. Um this is so fittingly stupid. Like it would like this is what we suspected all along, which is Ken Martin hired the wrong person to do the report. The wrong person did a terrible job. Instead of starting the report over or saying that Ken Martin just started lying , couldn't stop lying, and just got himself into this incredible hole. And then let's he doesn't get points for transparency here because the CNN got some parts they were able to get from some sources parts of the report. And once the CNN had that, then the then the DNC made the decision, which was the right decision, to release the rest of it. Like it's so it's it could not have been handled more poorly. Just every part of it. So I'm gonna go through a couple things here. Um one, this is just a management disaster. This was supposed to be a huge priority for Ken Martin. He hired someone to work for free, who no one in the Democratic Party would have picked for this role. There was no actual process set up. There was clearly no monitoring of the process or oversight or anyone working on or tracking what was happening because when he got he was shocked when he got the report. Well why weren't you getting inner why weren't there calls every week? Why wasn't someone on your staff in charge of doing this? Why wasn't there a committee of people? I can think of dozens upon dozens of very, very qualified, very, very smart Democrats who would have volunteered to be part of this process, to do it right. And I know this because there have been a bunch of other autopsies that have come out where they've gotten really, really smart people to do it and completed the work. I I someone uh that that we know uh reached out to me and said, We wrote a 700 page postmortem on the 2012 campaign, the Obama campaign, and it was done in January. The election was in November. And so like that just it just absolute management disaster. The second piece is the lying. Like it's the biggest thing. The lying is so crazy. And I go back to the interview with you, which is, and I we talked, you talked about this when we did the interview, we talked about since I just want everyone to fully understand . We did not seek out Ken Martin for the purpose of talking to him about the autopsy. We had no interest in talking to Ken Martin about the autopsy . He complained to you about tweets sent by someone who's not you. Nope. Yep. Ben Ben Rhodes tweet. Ben Rhodes tweet kicked it off. And then he came up to you at the grinder party. Yep, sure did . And expressed his dismet. You can talk about how he expressed it. And so the response was that he would come on the podcast and discuss it. He liked sought out the opportunity to do it to keep to continue to push the lie. Because the the argument that they were making, Kenneth Martin had two points in this about the autopsy. It's done. It was helpful. It has informed our playbook. He said the word playbook 10,000 times that interview. And we can't release it because it would be a distraction and divide the party before the election. The last part is yes, it's it would be a distraction, but it the main reason not to release it is embarrassing to Ken Martin, or not to come come clean with why you didn't you you weren't releasing this because it would be embarrassing to Ken Martin, not because it'd be bad for the party. Yeah. Yeah, it's um and it is if it was just the autopsy and this was like uh just one incident here, um, that would be one thing. But the fact that it goes to trust issues and credibility, and as Ken says in his statement, we need to be able to trust the Democratic Party and people need to be able to trust us again. Um it is indicative of a larger issue that he has had um since taking this role as chairman at the DNC. And um look no further than the April fundraising report s that came out the same day today that say once again the uh Democratic National Committee has negative three million dollars in the bank when you account for the debts that they owe. And the Republican National Committee has $124 million in the bank. And then when you look at the fundraising of the RNC versus the DNC, the RNC has raised many, many, many, many, many more times the amount of money as the DNC. But when you look at the fundraising between the DCC and the Republican Congressional Campaign Committee, um, when you the the two House committees , uh you know, the Republicans have outraised Democrats by a little, but not as much as RNC versus DNC. Same thing with the Senate committees. So it's not a Democratic party wide problem, fundraising problem. It's a DNC problem. Yeah, and the D and one of the reasons why the DNC is not able to raise money, and Ken Martin has disputed this, but many, many donors have said otherwise, is the autopsy because the autopsy has bred just frustration the DNC didn't do it, questions of trust about Ken Martin. What are we giving our money for if we're not getting it? And this is, I mean, burying the lead here, but this is why I think Ken Martin should step down. I think this is a bridge too far. He cannot repair the trust here. He's he's not everything we've seen here is he's not the right person for the job. I'm sorry that seems like a harsh thing to say, but it is clear. Like there's he is an impossible job. Being even under I we have worked with man many,y DNC chairs. Even under the best circumstances, the job sucks ass. It is really, really hard. No one has ever seen a successful DNC chair. People are hammered for it. But thing is, is that Ken Martin is now the distraction that he did not he was trying to avoid. And because you're the distraction, then you should go like he said it like he says in his post, my job is winning elections. Well, the best thing for the DNC for the Democrats to win elections is to have a fresh start at the DNC, both now and in 2028, where the trust issue matters so much more because the DNC is going to run the presidential primary. They're going to pick, they're going to set up the debates.' Therey going to pick the calendar, which is a huge thing. They're going to make decisions about how delegates are allegated. They're going to deal with states to try to jump the calendar. All of this matters. And when people don't trust the DNC, as happened in 2016, when all of the em ails came out as part of the Russian hacks of DNC emails that showed that people at the DNC were favoring Hillary over Bernie, people didn't trust the DNC. They didn't rigged, and it hurt. It hurt in the general election. We need people to trust the process. And I say that as a Sixers fan, but we need people to trust the process. Well, and what he is opened up to now is any candidate uh who runs for president in 2028 who complains about unfairness to the DNC, whether those accusations are fair or not, accurate or not, like no one's gonna believe Ken Martin because he has this credibility issue, right? And same thing with the excuses on the money, right? He he did a whole thing with me in the interview about like, you know, we're actually fine and we're investing in state parties and you need to spend and all this kind of stuff. But like, I don't know. I can I believe that now? I don't know. He he had this other lie for a a long, long time and it tried to tried to hide it, tried to cover up this report. So um yeah, it I guess uh after it was released today there was a call um for DNC members a private call just for the all the all the DNC members and talk to some people who are on the call and um he basically just read the statement that he gave CNN uh essentially and apologized again. And then also said that Paul Rivera, who did who he um put in charge of this report, is no longer helping out at the DNC because part of the CNN story said that even after he fucked up the autopsy, Paul Rivera was still walking around the DNC, like demoralizing staffers just by his presence because they all knew that he had fucked up so badly. Um so he said that Paul Rivera is no longer working. And then um no questions on the call. No questions from any of the DNC members after this. Um I also got some uh something from someone at the DNC saying that a lot of the outlets are uh mistaken and saying that there's uh no pathway to removal for Ken, that it's actually just a simple majority vote of the DN C. So that's interesting. And there's uh at least one congressman, uh representative Mark Visi, uh said that it's time for Ken Martin to go. So I don't know. I mean, I tend to think do you think his job is safe? Um do you think he'll resign? Like it it it seems it seems like a tall order, but I don't I mean I hope he would be willing to look at the reality situation and recognize that because of the mistakes that he made, that the best thing for the party would be to step down. I don't think he's going to do that. We're in this mess because he was trying to protect himself, not the party. Um so uh hard to see. I mean, you know, or is the deal are we really gonna take the even if it's easy, it's an extraordinary step to remove the DNC chairs. Anyone gonna do that five months before the midterms, I'd be surprised. Um then you need to do it. But I think if it does that before then it's a real question before the 2028 calendar is set as to whether we have to do something different here. Also the other problem is no one seems to want the job. So you need someone else who would want the job. You need someone else who you need the donors to say that if someone else takes the job, then the money will start flowing again and they'll start uh donating, right? Uh because you don't want the new you don't want a new chair to still be stuck at the same problem financially. And it does, you know, people have been complaining this is a distraction, distraction like it does at some point eat up a lot of time and energy, you know, as we're getting close to the midterms. But the challenge is after the midterms happen, if they are as expected and and things go well, again, you can just you can hear the DNC taking credit for it in advance, and they will have nothing to do with the victory. Again, if things don't go well, it's still not the DNC's fault. They just don't have that much to do with with midterm elections at all. But as soon as the midterms are over, we' fuckreing into the presidential primary. And people are gonna start putting their campaigns together and you're gonna need the calendars and all the stuff that you were just talking about. And so I don't know. It's just uh it's fucking mess. Fucking m ess. That's so stupid. And we're not digging into the actual autopsy because it's joke. Like I was just gonna say that like it's not worth talking about anything in it because it's not endorsed by the DNC or anyone else. It's just like Paul Rivera's rambl ings that are the basis of him talking to just some people involved with the 2024 campaign who aren't even most of the senior people on the campaign. Yeah. There's been a lot, I would say to people who are interested in what happened, there's been a lot of actual autopsies from outside groups. Way to win has one. Catalyst has their report. Um we talked about Rob Flaherty's bull work piece the other day. Um there's one from uh I think the strategic victory fund, if I'm saying that correctly. Um has has one . There's there's actually some pretty good, pretty exhaustive work about what happened in twenty twenty four that's that people want they should go look at. But looking at this version is not worth doing. Because you could look for you could try I would say read the executive summary, but that was also not provided, so you think you'll come back on the pod ? Maybe. Maybe. Maybe you guys will meet up again at next year's grander party . Fingers crossed. Maybe there'll be alcohol this time. All right. Speaking of Democrats being unhappy with Democrats, the New York Times released new results from their latest poll that we talked about on Tuesday. Uh, this installment is focused on Democrats and independents who uh say they're planning to support Democratic candidates in the fall. Overall, more than half of these voters disapprove of the Democratic Party. More than half also said the party should move to the center rather than move to the left in order to win the 2028 presidential election. But when asked that question about specific issues, uh the revolts, the results were more varied. On economic issues, 36% said move to the left. Pretty competitive with the forty-two per whocent said move to the cent er. And on healthcare, 45% of Democratic voters want to move to the left compared to just 27% who said move to the center, um, and twenty-six percent who said don't move in either direction. Healthcare was the issue where the biggest percentage of voters thought the Democratic Party should move to the left. Um, and then I would say economy was next. And then when you get to issues like uh crime, I think, was the top issue where the most the highest percentage of Democrats said that the party should move to the right, or at least move to the center, sorry. Um and uh and then immigration and actually, you know, we can talk about this too, but uh trans issues was not as there weren't as many people um and this would go against sort of the prevailing narrative, but there weren't as many Democrats who wanted the party to move to the center on uh trans issues as there were on uh crime and immigration is still the the t top two. So what did you make of the this novel line of questioning in the poll, which they did ask voters, like, how do you personally feel about the direction of the party on these issues, and what direction do you think the par ty should move in and then they asked which direction you think the party should move to win. So they did both, but the the the move to win, basically asking voters to be pundits, is a is a new one. Yeah, I generally hate that idea. Like it's always it's just it's just I'd much rather more much more interested in what voters actually think . Because you would like to believe that that's what informs voting behavior . But I will say that this is a very interesting finding. One, it just proves that among Democrats, the narrative that Democrats lost because we were too far to the left, too woke, too liberal, has taken hold among Democrats. The the you know, plurality of Democrats believe that, at least on a a core set of issues. And so it's just it's like that's an interesting data point that that has, you know, there was this battle after the election. Did we were we too moderate or too left? And at least for the people responding in this poll, it was clearly the problem was we were too left, not lot it left en ough. And the other reason why I think this is somewhat informative is electability is become the preeminent issue in democratic politics. You know, it it it was a huge issue in the Texas Senate primary. It was a huge issue in the Maine Senate primary before Janet Mills dropped out. It's a giant issue in the Iowa primary that happened in a couple weeks and it's a big issue in the Michigan Senate primary that is uh in August. And so it's interesting to know what voters think makes someone electable, or or in this case may make them think someone is less electable. Um, you know, looking at the numbers, it is um You d did you dive into the crosstabs? I I I d I figured you did, but I did too. I'm ready to nerd out about some crosstabs if people some real nuggets, but it's sort of it's what you the is the th the findings are kind of across the board. What would be interesting would be if there was one group who really thought they should move to the left, but really just kind of across the board people or not move to the right or whatever it is, but the everyone The call the college split on these issues is notable to me. Yeah. That non-college voters um uh tend to want the party to move towards the center and college voters want the party to move to the left. And then it splits on racial and education lines in a very interesting way, which is non-college black voters and non-college Latino voters, along with non-college white voters, very much want the party to move to the center. And really the only demographic group that um most wants the party to move to the left is white college grads. Also some um black and and Hispanic college grads, but it's just a a larger chunk of the electorate is is white college. And more with younger people. It all skews younger in all of these. Yeah. And particularly on issues again uh uh uh against the prevailing narrative on issues of immigration and crime. Yeah. You see , that you see that you see black and Latino non-college Democratic voters say they want the party to move to the center. Oh yes, yes. I mean that is the I guess I thought we we like I feel like we were past that prevailing narrative. Um or that even that narrative is kind of but I guess I guess it depends on where you're getting your news these days. Right. Yeah. Just just wait till we get to the next primary. Yeah. I mean, and it's like obviously like the bill is going to hang over uh the 2028 primary in a massive way. Um and so this this will inform that. I think the healthcare one is very interesting. On economic issues, it's only a six-point spread, um, which I think is also notable. And then what I found also interesting is that there is um they asked people if they asked Democrats if they thought the economic system in the country was generally unfair to most Americans. 88% yes. Only 11% said fair to most Americans. And whether the political and economic system needs to be changed and made uh eighties so sixty three percent said major changes, twenty percent said torn down completely, and fifteen percent said minor or no minor changes and one percent said no changes. Who that person is, the which Democrat thinks they've revealed no changes, I'd be interested in. But I think there is this paradox here, which is you have people saying we think the party should move right on certain issues, but there is an appetite in it for big bold ideas on the economy and healthcare. And it like people want real change. And so nibbling around the edges is not going to be sufficient, both in the democratic primary and the general. People want to see that you understand the scale of the problems affecting their lives, the ways in which the system is broken and corrupt, and you have big ideas. So the sort of, you know, not to pick on Kamala Harris's economic team, but like this is what not to do is we're going to offer um tax credits. Tax credits for home for first time home buyers. It's a good policy, theoretically, but it it just seems small compared to what Well that's that would be a better that would be a better policy. You you can do both. Yeah, you can do both. Um but yeah, I mean there was a line in here in the in the write-up of the piece of the poll, which was uh and when presented with two opposing economic visions, more than two-thirds of Democratic supporters, now sixty five, sixty-six percent, said they favored a candidate who would go after corporate monopolies in price gouging, while just thirty percent preferred a candidate who promised to lower prices by easing housing regulations and expanding energy production. Now, um, you know, there's some of this is in wording, but that doesn't that doesn't sound very exciting to ease housing regulations and expand energy production. But just to give people a baseline, because I thought this was interesting. So they asked, like, where do you how how do you think about the party? Is it too far left? Is it too far right, or is it not too far either way? 55% said not too far either way. Uh 20% said to left, 17% said to right. So right there, you're a candidate trying to r win the party's nomination. You got like a little more than half of the electorate that you're trying to get who thinks the party is ideologically good where it is right now, and then you've got almost similar percentages on either side. So that is a tough thing to navigate. I also thought the the delta between when they ask peopleed what would you personally like where would you personally like to see the party move? And to win, where would you like to see the party move was actually not that different. So 28% said they personally like to see the party move to the left. And 25% said that to win the party should move to the left. And then 47% said they personally want it to move to the center. And 52% said that to win they want to move to the center. So you do have a percentage of people who were saying, oh, personally, I want the party to be more left, but to win, it should move to the center. But not a ton. I well, it's I mean, for the reasons that we talked about for many years, which is the median Democrat is a um is a voter that didn't go didn't go to college and is more moderate than uh most people listen to this podcast, and we are personally. And that that's the party that nominated Joe Biden in 20 in 2020. And that that remain that remains true. I think these questions are a little confusing in how they're ordered, like but it is it's just notable that 55% are generally okay with the direction of the party is now. How many of those fifty-five percent can name what the direction of the party actually fucking is right now? But I was just gonna say the other thing that stands out in some of the questions that they asked is, and and we always talk about this, but it's a good reminder for everyone, is how like those of you listening to this podcast, um, you are so different than like 70% of the rest of the electorate in that you pay closer attention to politics and know more about what's going on in politics day to day than most of the people who will show up and vote in elections. So they ask ed um uh about Schumer and Schumer's approval rating in this poll among just Democrats and and independents who they're gonna vote Democrat is twenty-six percent in favor, thirty-1% uh opposed. And you're like, well, that's kinda low. Thirty five percent never heard of Chuck Schumer. Uh Joe Rogan, uh eleven percent approved, forty eight percent disapprove, the rest never heard of Joe Rogan. Nick Fuentes, what is it, nine percent approve? I didn't see Fuentes in there. Yeah Fuentes is in the uh crosstabs. They asked I guess just for fun, uh have you heard uh maybe maybe Ezra got this question in uh have you heard of the abundance movement? 91% of people in that they pulled, uh, all of whom, again, all these people said they're gonna vote in the midterms. 91% never heard of the abundance movement. Um, so it's just it's it's a good a good reminder um that people who are even in democratic uh even in midterms, right, which is a more engaged electorate, even midterm voters are just not paying as much attention to all the shit that we talk about every week. These are registered voters, right? Yeah, but registered voters who said they're gonna vote in the midterm. Um the Israel numbers, crazy. Only 20 percent favor more aid to Israel, 74 percent do not fifteen percent sympathize with Israel over the Palestinians, and sixty percent uh Palestinians over Israelis. The high the highest group of support for Israel of any demographic is 65 plus, unsurprising there. Even that group, 65 plus, only 27%, so that they uh have more sympathy for Israel than the Palestinians. That is just a just a massive shift on that issue. Thank Joe Biden, Donald Trump, and Bibi Netanyahu for that. Yeah, that is true. And then um, and then forty-nine percent um favor socialism, twenty-two percent no socialism, and then the rest had no opinion. Every age group of Democrats has a favorable opinion of socialism. That's a good thing. That may be a distinction without a difference in the ads that will be run, but uh I think it does matter on what people say. But yeah, even voters over 65, if I remember correctly, uh Democrats over 65, by a more narrow margin, have a favorable view of socialism. Oh, last one I wanted to ask you about. Um forty-nine percent of voters said it was important to choose leaders with a fresh approach. Forty-eight per cent want to choose leaders with proven experience. Surreal and guess guess which guess what young people wanted ? Experience. Yeah. By like a lot more than other age groups. It was a sort of like I think that this one is um I think this is a confusing question and I don't think it says exactly what you think it says. Um I think the backdrop for this is our reality TV show president who has no real experience and is fucking up left and right every single day. And so I think the better the the question that will be more interesting as we think about the twenty twenty eight Democratic primary is inside do you want someone who is a part of the establishment or against the establishment. I think that's a because everyone is everyone who's running is going to have some answer on experience. It's just what experience means. Like we saw this in 2008. Like everyone can define experience the way they do, and then you either sell it or you don't because if you don't you no one wants someone with insufficient experience. That is true. That is true. Um while we're on this topic there's a bit of a mess brewing in the Democratic primary in uh Texas's redrawn 35th district, where Sheriff's Deputy Johnny Garcia is now in a runoff with a sex therapist named Maureen Galindo, who has posted wildly anti-Semitic comments online, including calling Judaism the synagogue of Satan and promising to turn an ICE detention center into, quote, a prison for American Zionists and former ICE officers, adding, quote, it will also be a castration processing center for pedophiles, which will probably be most of the Zionists. Disgusting. A mysterious super PAC called Lead Left, which was formed earlier this month and whose website initially linked to the Republican platform Win Red, has now spent about $600,000 to boost Galindo. Uh, Demoline's super PACs have now j just about matched that spending to defeat Galindo . And everyone from James Talarico to Hakeem Jeffries to AOC has condemned her. Um, what do you make of this? Uh it's it's a mess. It's an absolute mess. I mean, good for everyone for speaking up and trying to defeat this person. The Republicans are pretty devious in what they're doing. They're gonna do this in multiple places around the country. They've already tried to do it in a couple states, including Pennsylvania. I mean, we have we have been involved in primary democratic groups, have been involved in primaries before, so this is not beyond the bound beyond the bounds of what's acceptable or what's appropriate. But add us to the list of people condemning her and hoping she does not win. Yeah, and if you are in that district, if you're a voter in that district, if you know voters in that district, like tell them to go vote for Johnny Garcia. Uh she got more votes in the primary I know. I know that's what that's what we're all worried about. This is on this is on Tuesday. She got so this is the runoff and she got more votes than him the first time around. And so, you know, I think I I f I I can't even begin. Uh the most generous explanation is that people who voted for her did not know about all the comments and all the positions, I hope. Um, and that maybe and that she obviously had a lot of money and spending behind her, so her name ID was better than Johnny Garcia. So he needs better name ID. Maybe this controversy getting kicked up will help sort of focus people and people in that 35th district will will hear about this and be like, oh that's crazy. We've got to vote for Johnny Garcia. But anyway, we should um everyone should get the word out because um this isn't just someone who's like crazy lefty. This is like uh fucking concentration camps for Zionists. Are you fucking kidding me? Like it's awful. And Republicans, of course, are so fucking cynical in having a field day with this and being like, Oh, Democrats Democrats are the ones voting for the anti Semites and the and the people who want to put uh Jews in camps, not Republicans and meanwhile, of course, not saying anything about the fact that there's this like mysterious super pack linked to the Republican group Win Red that is spending to uh on this race, which is just crazy. So Johnny Garcia, go check it out. Um all right, one last topic today . There are two very notable weddings taking place this Memorial Day weekend. Uh as we've said, one is our own John Lovett and Ari Schwartz, which we're all very excited to attend. The other is Donald Trump Jr. and Palm Beach Socialite Bettina Anderson, which Donald Trump Sr. is maybe skipping? Uh l let's listen to what he said in the oval. He'd like me to go, but it's gonna be just a small little private affair and I'm gonna try and make it I'm I'm in the midst. I said, you know, this is not good timing for me. I have a thing called uh RAN and other things. Uh that's one I can't win on. If I do attend, I get killed. If I don't attend I get killed. What? I mean, we have joked for many, many years about how Donald Trump does not love his children and they act this way because he does not love them and he can barely identify them and really did no parenting. This kind of proves the point. Yeah, just gener ational trauma, just in action. We're just watching it unfold right in that clip. It's just a lot of Donald Donald Trump's famous for um skipping festivities and Aaron Powell No one would kill him for going to his son's wedding. Like that's one free like he does a lot of dumb shit. I wouldn't see criticizing playing golf. This would this would free pass for this one. It's in the Bahamas, I guess. He can go anywhere, yeah. He can go anywhere. It could bring a fucking I bet he's just pisses that at Mar-a Lago because he wanted to charge his son. That is I I can't I can't even imagine. I can't imagine. He also wasn't even it would have even been different if he was like, oh, I'm so like, I can't make it. You know, like he was definitive and he had the excuse. But instead, he did the worst of all worlds, which is just be like, eh , I'm gonna try to make it, but I don't know. I don't know. It's not gonna touch it. I told him it's not yeah, not good timing for me. Yeah. Not good timing for me. It's really it's your fault I'm not coming to your wedding, son . Good stuff. Anyway, anyway, congrats to John Jr. Congrats to John Jr. We'll uh send it. And John Lovett. Yes. Just cut from the same clef. When we come back, California gubernatorial candidate Matt Mahan . PodSave America is brought to you by Neutrafol. Real change comes through the small, healthy habits you do every day that quietly add up to big improvements. That's the idea behind Neutrafol. 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Cause remember the other um options for this sort of thing where one day you just be totally balled and the next day the commercial has a guy like jet skiing with a full head of hair and a sick mullet. There's that or there's just uh you're you're you're standing outside at a press conference and it's a little warm and suddenly you got the you got the new hair dripping down your face. His head just melted. Good old days. I know. Let your hair become one less thing, taking up space in your head and see thicker, stronger, faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with neutral . For a limited time, neutral is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutrafold.com and enter the promo code crooked. That's neutrafold.com spelled n- t-r-af ol dot com. Promocode crooked . Hey crooked listeners. If you haven't become a friend of the pod yet, you are missing out on exclusive bonus content that drops every single week. If you do join, you're helping us uh you know grow crooked media, which is one of the few independent, proudly pro-democracy media companies left in Trump's America. If you join, you also get ad-free episodes of all your favorite pods, ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, love it or leave it, offline, Pod Save the World. You also get bonus content like uh our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends, Dan Pfeiffer's Polar Coaster. You also get access to all of our excellent substack newsletters like Pod Save America open tabs and tons more great content. So stop what you're doing right now and go ahead and subscribe at crooked.com/slash friends. Check it out My guest today is the mayor of San Jose. He's running to be the next governor of the great state of California. Matt Mayan . Great to see you. Thanks for having me. Thank you for coming into the crooked media grand offices. What do you think? It's beautiful. Yeah. I love the art. Yeah, I'm really digging for compliments today. All right, let's cut to the chase. So we've got a motley crowded field of candidates in this race, election day is fast approaching. People are already voting. I got my ballot at the house. I'm an undecided voter. I want to talk to you about it in a bit. Uh why are you the best candidate to lead this state. Well, thanks for having me on. I I think I'm the best candidate to lead the state because I'm the only Democrat in the race who has a track record of challenging the establishment within my own party to make our government deliver for people. And at a time when we've got an authoritarian president who is trying to take the country in a very dangerous direction, we need Democrats who can govern and make people's lives better. The way we win in the long run is proving that we can implement policies that make people's neighborhoods safer and cleaner, the schools better, make housing more affordable. If we're delivering bad outcomes and people are dissatisfied with our leadership, it becomes very hard to fight for democracy and get people to care about climate change and many of the kind of longer-term goals that we have. So I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but just you know, we're in LA, we have this mayoral race happening that's kind of goofy. I'm sure you've seen. We got Karen Bastian coming to the Democrat. She's got a challenge from the left from Nithya Raman. And then a challenge from the right from like a washed-up reality TV participant, I don't even want to call him a star, Spencer Pratt, who um lost his home in the Palisades fire and I think has channeled very understandable anger about the response into a surprisingly effective campaign. And he's like tapped into this rage at the government, rage at the system that I think was bubbling below the surface for a lot of people and like not just, you know, people who are feeling like the economic pinch, like a lot of rich, powerful people in this city are like pro-Pratt now. Yeah. Um are you hearing that anger on the campaign trail? And if so, how did Democrats address it and speak to it like when we're in charge of everything here and have been for a while? I am hearing that frustration and in some cases outright anger, and that's exactly what I'm talking about. When I ran for mayor of San Jose, which is the third largest city in the state, I was hearing deep frustration with the most basic things. There's there's crime in my neighborhood, sprawling tent encampments, our schools are failing. I can't afford the rent. I mean, the stuff that really keeps people up at night and affects them in their daily lives. And I realized very quickly when I was out knocking on doors and talking to people that we have to own those shortcomings and offer people change that is pragmatic and responsible. We I believe we are almost continuously in a change election mode because government today is failing to get the basics right. In San Jose, I focused on things that are very simple but have an out sized impact, speeding up uh permitting, creating a neighborhood quality of life unit within our police department, building basic dignified interim housing. And when it's available, requiring people come indoors, partnering with our county to get more people into drug treatment by focusing on very basic issues that people see and feel every single day that you sadly see go viral on next door and everywhere else. We've increased trust in City hall by 40% in my time as mayor. And I think that's the playbook. It'll look different in different cities and different states. But again, I go back to this core premise that we have to be outcome focused. We have to look at the outcomes that matter most to voters. And they're pretty clear. They're telling us it's how it's it's cost of living, it's quality of schools, it's public safety issues, it's it's very basic issues. Now it's the cost of gas. And yeah, we could spend all of our time arguing how much of the cost of gas is the is is Trump's war versus a lot of it. Yeah. The last what dollar and a half, two dollars, something like that is thanks to Donald Trump. But the dollar fifty before that is largely our own policy decisions. And we need to be honest about that. I've argued that the gas tax in California has become the most regress ive tax. It affects people living in the kinds of communities I grew up in. I grew up in a small farming town on the central coast, people who can't afford an EV, Californians who are driving farther because they live in rural communities or out in the suburbs and they're commuting every day. And we should keep it, but we should right size it. In fact, I would convert it into a flat fee that makes sure EV owners are paying their fair share. That would be fairer. You'd provide some relief to people, and you'd show that the Democratic Party's still fighting for working people and trying to make a real impact in their daily lives . Let me be annoying and ask a process question and we'll get geek out a little bit. So you got into the race pretty late. It was a crowded field, um, but now you've been running for a couple months, and there was a poll out earlier this week that had you at four percent of the vote. How do you turn things around, if that poll is accurate, between now and election day when it's what, a month out, Les? Wes, I mean look, there's a lot of fluidity in the polls. We we also recently had a poll that showed us at 10 percent. I I I I mean look it when it's a low turnout race and voters are holding on to their ballots, it means there's a lot of uncertainty and therefore variability in terms of what can happen. I believe people are listening. They're not thrilled with the choices that they perceive to be the front runners today because they have some very legitimate concerns about Tom Steyer and Javier Becerra and and certainly uh Steve Hilton. And I'm offering an alternative that is um resonant with those who have heard it. What we see in our data is when people have seen our ads and heard our message, we go above 20% and we're in the top two. So my focus is on communicating directly with voters through every possible channel, including thank you very much, you know, this opportunity today. I want to talk to people about what we've done to get housing under construction , to make San Jose the safest big city in the country, to reduce homelessness faster than any other city in the state of California, and offer a different view of how we make Sacramento work for them. I mean, we we have to own as Democrats the fact that in the last six years, we have increased spending in Sacramento by 75%. That's $150 billion per year more than we had six years ago. And none of the outcomes that people care most about have gotten better. That is a system ic breakdown. And that's why I'm trying to offer very concrete solutions. Fund Prop 36, expand treatment capacity, do high dosage tutoring when children are falling behind to make sure every child's on grade level for reading by the end of third grade. These are things that work that we have not done largely because of special interest capture in Sacramento. We don't build condos in the state of California anymore because the trial lawyers like the fees they collect from using construction defect laws to sue builders of condos. So the city of Miami builds more condos every year, than the entire state of California . Why does that matter? That's the most accessible form of homeownership for young people. And we wonder why people are getting priced out of our state. So I'm running against the special interest capture in Sacramento and the status quo. I've done that as the mayor of a large city and it's worked. We've delivered meaningful outcomes. I want to ask you more about homeownership and young people in the state. So one more sort of process thing, which is like, look, I I'm I'm literally an undecided voter in this race, in part because as you know, we have this stupid fucking jungle primary system here where there's a runoff, there's a first round on June 2nd, the top two candidates go to the runoff. So that leads to strategic voting, right? There was all this anxiety about Democrats splitting the vote, two Republicans ascending and right and then we have a de facto Republican governor. That probably won't happen now 'cause the Chad seems to touch cuckoo. Um and Trump has chosen the British short king is his guy in California. Shocking. What what's going on there? I guess Fox. Um but then but I then there's people like me who are just like overthinking it, right? Because I have can uh candidates that appeal to my heart and I worry though that if they can't win, then maybe I'm doing a harm reduction vote because I have candidates that I think are bad and I want to vote for someone to displace them. Um why do we have this dumb system? I hate it. Well I hope I'm speaking to your heart, Tommy. Well we'll find out. We got 15 more minutes. Yeah. You can let me know at the end. Uh look, I I don't think people should overthink it. It is almost statistically impossible for two Republicans to get through. There are not that many Republican votes in the state of California And I just I I think it's more likely we'll have two Democrats than we will have uh two Republicans by far. It's just not gonna happen. So I think people should vote for the Democrat who they believe will do the best job. And I get rid of this process at some point though? Uh the voters can. Let's do it. They can. It's annoying. No one likes this. Who is this for? Well, uh the theory I I do want to try to articulate it because look that they're there are trade-offs. Partisan primaries also tend to drive candidates to the extreme. Agreed. And and so I don't know that there's a I I've heard another interesting alternative, which is um I know this is gonna sound crazy, but I I was intrigued when someone pitched me on this the other day, having the top three or four candidates advance and then in the final, the second round do rank choice voting. I would do rank choice for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that solves the problem. If you if you win o the field from sixty-two, which is literally what we have on our ballot today, which isn't. Including someone named Barack Obama, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. Good move on his part. Well played, sir. Yeah. If you narrow it to say the top four, then you're almost certain to have ideological and partisan variety. And then because it would then theoretically, if you did rank choice, you would then optimize for whoever's kind of the best overall choice. So I'd be interested in something like that. I worry if you go back to a partisan primary, you get the most extreme Republican, the most extreme Democrat. It's all right, it's all decided in the primary. And that's by the way, looking at the other side, that's how you ended up with a Ted Cruz in in Texas. He got five percent of the vote. But because it was enough to make him the top candidate in a hyperpartisan Republican primary in a red state, he became the de facto senator for years to come. Trevor Burrus, Well he has a very appealing human being, so I can see of that . Drew that five percent in. Um you have come out against this proposed one time billionaires tax, a five percent wealth tax on billionaires um in California. This could be on the ballot this fall. Um why? What's your opposition to this plan? Yeah, so uh it's not because I don't think billionaires uh should uh shouldn't be paying more. I mean I look I I think there are a lot of loopholes in the tax code, we should close. I'll give you one example. Today, very wealthy people can borrow against their stock options or other assets that they have not yet paid capital gains on, and then deploy, use those dollars um as a way of funding their lifestyles, their investments, and then never having to pay capital gains. That's a loophole. We should close that. Um actually I give you one more. Elon Musk, if you were to die today , would pass his stock on to his heirs, five hundred billion or whatever it is, and it would automatically get repriced at market rate, meaning they, even if they turned around and sold it the next day, would never pay capital gains on it. Fundamentally unfair. So there are a whole bunch of things in the tax code I would fix. I also think with automation, capital gains will probably need to go up so that we can lower income tax on those who are working for a living. Yeah. But when it comes to this wealth tax, the the concern I have is it's going to punish the middle class in California. We've seen about a trillion dollars of capital flight from the state already. And this is right in line with what we've seen in every other place that's tried a wealth tax. Trevor Burrus A trillion dollars in wealth asset value, right? Not taxation. Trevor Burrus Correct. A trillion dollars worth of of wealth of of assets that people hold that no longer reside within the state of California because their owner now has a primary residence in another state. Like Reno or something. Yeah. Yeah. Nevada, Florida, Texas, whatever. Um, and that that's what we've seen. So there are 14 European countries that have tried wealth taxes at the national level, not even the the provincial or state level. And what they they have generally rolled them back or had to significantly modify them for a couple of reasons. One, they have seen the overall tax base shrink as they've had capital flight, people with with high, very high net worths moving their assets and their primary residence out of the country or out of the state. The other is to assess people's wealth is not a trivial thing. And value them and then tax them. And there's a lot of distortionary effects. I just I'm I just think it's it's a it's likely to backfire. It's like going to be very costly. And ultimately I think it's the middle class that's going to be left holding the bag. Trevor Burrus Because there will just be less revenue, you think? So like everyone and that's not just me. The legislative analyst office, the independent you know, policy shop in Sacramento says that we've probably already taken ten billion a year off of our future revenues based on the the capital that's already left the state. Trevor Burrus Right. But if we could recoup that with this one time tax, I mean there's estimates that it could bring in up to 100 billion. I mean it's it's hard to pencil out the math, right? Because we just don't know how many people will leave. I also feel like there's this concern. We're talking about like 200 people, right? Like 200 billionaires in California. Um, if they all left the state, do they all really have that much income that gets taxed? Like Jeff Bezos famously pays himself 80 grand or something and has since 1998, but all of his wealth is in uh often unrealized gains in Amazon stock, right? Which is not getting taxed no matter what happens. It's like how do we get at that money? Well that's that's why I point to those other two reforms that I think make a lot more sense. One is if he's borrowing against those unrealized gains, uh there should be a cutoff at which point it's considered realized and you have to you can't just endlessly borrow against your unrealized assets. I think that's a way smarter way to do it that's less distortionary. And I would I mean it really ideally that would be a federal policy. Yeah. The other is inheritance. The best wealth tax is a one-time inheritance tax when you pass things on. And if you don't want to actually force people to sell assets because it's a family business or a farm, that's fine. But don't rebase the value of it at market rate at the moment the person dies , leave the original cost basis so that when your heirs sell, they pay capital gains. That seems only fair. Aaron Powell Yes. And there's so many carve outs for farms and like it's like tens of millions of dollars is already exempted from the wealth tax. It's insane that we are not focusing more on that. So you're the mayor of a city at the heart of the American tech industry in a past life. You worked in the tech industry. Americans, I think, increasingly have a negative view of of a lot tech companies, right? I mean, as recently as 2015, Pew found that 71% of Americans thought technology companies had a positive effect on the country. By 2019, that was down to 50%. Now you're seeing like AI explode onto the scene. People are worried about the data centers. Uh, there's polling that finds an increasing number of Americans are more concerned than excited about AI. You've got people getting booed for mentioning AI at college commenc ements this past weekend. Yeah. What would you say to voters who were furious at Silicon Valley because, you know, certain, you know, tech CEOs got fabulously wealthy while they did not, the news media got hollowed out. Um, they feel like harms were done by social media. And now it just feels like the same companies, the same people, they're getting to run it back with AI, which we're all told is this unbelievably powerful like step change new thing? And I don't trust those people. I don't trust Elon or Mark Zuckerberg or Sam Altman to be in charge of it. Yeah. Yeah. I I think it's a very real fear and I understand it. And on some level I share it. I don't I have little kids, I don't want them on social media or AI. I've I've argued that um and and as governor I would fight for policies that require parental consent for using social media , banned cell phones in public schools. I've actually got experience with regulating technology because as a mayor, we our city is procuring and using technology and constantly thinking about the trade-offs. New tools can give us new capabilities to improve things. We've sped up our public buses, we've improved language translation in our meetings, we're identifying potholes proactively. We've done a number of things that are making government more responsive and efficient, which is great. That's really cool stuff. On the other hand, people's fears around privacy, uh, manipulation of elections and just misinformation more broadly, job loss, environmental destruction are all very legitimate. And that's why we created something called the GovAI Coalition. San Jose was the founding member of a platform that helps over 900 public agencies navigate technology adoption. And it's all about the ethical and responsible use of AI. So we use license plate readers, but we don't allow facial recognition. We don't sell data to third parties. We don't even share it with the federal government because we don't trust how they will use it. We delete it every 30 days. On the other hand, it's helped us solve murders and kidnappings and rapes and all kinds of horrible crimes. So striking that balance of how do we harness the value of tools? And I think you we want to continue to be a state that is innovative and that is at the cutting edge, but we have to regulate and protect people from these changes. Data centers you mentioned, I believe, and this should be a national standard, but certainly for California, any new data center needs to pay the full cost of the infrastructure they require, the full cost of energy. They should be required to use the cleanest energy. Their investment should help facilitate the clean energy future that we all want. They should have to use recycled water. So I think that we can raise the bar. Some people want to pause on building though. So that too far from it. And that's kind of my point. You have this sort of much more laissez-faire approach on the right that is sort of like, oh, you know, business is good, capitalism is always good, and let's just have this sort of unbridled capitalism and see what happens. I reject it. David Sachs approach, we're laissez-faire until Silicon Valley Bank is going to collapse and then we're screened. Exactly. So I reject that mindset and approach. I I also think, though, that there is a more extreme version within my party that wants to just hit the brakes. And I think, I just believe we are better served, and I think historically we have been better served by regulating, managing, shaping technological change, but having the authority to do that than just saying no and having it happen elsewhere. And I think there's a balance to strike there. I put out an AI accountability plan that's all about striking that balance. It's about investing in workforce development, putting strict guardrails on uh the way that children interact with technology, accountability for data centers and robotics companies. We need to have an AI shared prosperity fund that is paying, that is taking tax revenue from these hyperscalers, these big tech companies , and paying for the upskilling and reskilling we need to make sure that people are prepared for the jobs of the future. And look, if it gets really dire, we haven't seen this yet, but we should have a plan B if if job loss increases, we're gonna have to talk about things like a UBI. We need to have a whole other set of tools, a totally different safety net, if this plays out in a way that some of us fear. What's your um what's your AI drug of choice? You have Grok guy, Claude, ChatGPT? What do we use in the screen? I go between Claude and chat and um yeah, chat GPT mostly. Although I end up by default in on Gemini a lot just because of the Yeah, but then it's always wrong. You know, you're just getting bullshit. Yeah, yeah. I was using ChatGPT and then Sam Alman did something shitty. I'll take your Pentagon contract to build the autonomous killer robots. I was like, I'm out. Then you went to Claude. See a buddy. Yeah. Who's just, I don't know, secretly building the autonomous killer robots. Who knows? Um, so you raise a bunch of money from folks in the tech world, uh, CEOs at Google, Dropbox, Snapchat, Twitch, I think some prominent venture capitalists. What's your response to people who worry, look, when you take all that money, there are strings. Um and it could make you beholden to the tech industry? Yeah, I mean, look, it's it's a very fair question. And my response is one, I've regulated tech and as an elected official over the last six years, I have never done one thing to benefit the biggest employers in Silicon Valley over the people of San Jose. And I sure as heck am not going to do that in Sacramento. I'm actually running against special interest capture in Sacramento, and I'm not going to replace one set of interests with another. I have been very willing and have have consistently put restrictions on how we use technology, how we interface with tech companies. I think the the the honest reason that there are tech employees, tech leaders, investors, et cetera, who have contributed to the campaign is I lead the largest city in Silicon Valley, and they've seen that we have led the state in reducing crime, reducing homelessness, building housing, uh, fixing our problems. And I think people are drawn to results and competent leadership. And I'm just better known in the Bay Area where we have a number of tech companies. But that's why I'm spending so much time traveling around the state, getting to know people in other places and really making the case for good government. But um I put out a very clear AI accountability plan that is based on everything I've done in San Jose over the last six years and is where I am on these issues and I put that out transparently for everyone from voters to my donors to see it. And if donors don't like it, they can find another candidate. Well one donor name that surprised me was a guy named Joe Lonsdale. He's a co-founder of Palantir, big Republican megadonor. He's like a big Elon stan, give a million to Elon's like pro Trump super pack. Maxed out to you? How what's up with that guy? He seems a little crazy. I don't know. You'd have to ask him. I mean I have I have probably thousands of documents. No. I know he's from he's from the Bay Area. We've come we've cross paths. That's why we've got a you guys have been tweeting at each other? You know, uh look, we all have our weaknesses, and that's one of mine. Um it does feel like though, like the there was a time look, I I was in the Obama administration and like the kind of oh eight through 2013 phase of like the there was a lot of excitement around tech. There was a lot of cooperation between the administration and tech industry, probably too much to our discredit in the Obama world. Um, now it seems like a lot of the tech industry guys are like, gloves are off. Fuck this. We're battling regulation, right? Like Andreessen Horowitz, according to the New York Times, has made more than 1 50 million, 1$51 million worth of disclosed federal contributions to candidates or entities working on the upcoming midterms. That's like 50 mil for like an AI pack, another 47 million for crypto super PAC. Like, does that worry you? Does that disgust you that like this one VC firm can dump a hundred million to advocate for like its you know book of portfolio companies? Yeah, absolutely. I mean I'm I'm worried about concentrated power in politics in in all forms. The the biggest uh donors and and tech now is is becoming one of the the largest um industries or or donor bases in the country of any industry. You've had oil and gas. In the state of California, it is worth noting there are other groups as well from public sector unions to trial lawyers who spend a tremendous amount of money. Yeah. Um, sometimes for things I agree with that I think are generally good for society, sometimes for narrower interests that are that are not always good for society. I actually got involved in the the the way I ended up in tech was building tools for grassroots organizing , the early petitions like the change.org tools, early fundraisers, GoFundMe, these kinds of early tools. Um to try to basically help people organize at a grassroots level and make the system more accountable to the people than to the donors. I've always been worried about the influence of concentrated money and power in our politics. So it does worry me. I do think though that the that the Democratic Party has to also recognize there there's a split within the party right now. And we have also driven away many people who are uh have started companies or and I'm not just talking about in tech. I mean, generally speaking, as I go around the state, just set tech aside, when I go talk to people in agriculture, in Hollywood, in manufacturing, in in a wide range of industries, the regulatory burden in California is a real issue. And I think we we become very dismissive of it as oh, deregulation is a Republican thing, that's just because they want more profit. I I don't think that's the case. I mean, we broke the housing market by over-regulating it in California. That's I mean, making building more housing, creating room for new people for future generations , making housing more affordable is actually a very progressive aim. I totally agree, but I feel like we're just so far from overregulating like social media companies. I mean Australia is banning accounts for kids under 16, right? I mean we're just we're doing nothing. Right. And that's part of my proposal is actually to to require at least parental consent up to up to 16. Um so yeah, I I think that's I think that's fair. But I but I do think we we risk losing natural allies of the party if our answer to every problem is another regulation, another tax uh tax. And I I think look, within tech, maybe it's appropriate. The regulatory environment is not very mature at this point, but there are plenty of other industries like housing and agriculture where you could argue we're punishing, we're we're actually restricting economic opportunity and pushing people out of state. Trevor Burrus You've uh criticized Governor Gavin Newsom for like kind of focusing too much on trolling Donald Trump. I think you said he made a quote, blind leap into meme land. Um Gavin and Trump have kind of a Ross and Rachel, will they, won't they, frenemies, you know, antagonistic thing going. It's probably unique to them, right? They're they're big, larger than life people. But Trump and the conservative media, they love the beat up on California, right? Fox News all day is like some video of something that happened on the street. Um, so I don't think the Trump attacks end when Gavin is gone. How would you manage that relationship differently than him? Or or continuity? I mean the way I think about it is there's a set of things that are just red lines for me and for the state of California. We're gonna fight to protect our vulnerable neighbors, we're gonna push back on ice, we're gonna fight to protect constitutional freed oms. We're going to fight for our fair share of federal funding. There are a number of areas where unfortunately we are going to have to fight fire with fire, as Governor Newsom has said. And in San Jose, we I've led us to sue the Trump administration multiple times. We've used our budget to backfill cuts. We've we're funding legal services for um immigrant neighbors who are at risk of deportation. We've banned ICE's use of masks and their use of public property. So I I will use every tool in the toolbox: legal, budgetary, bully pulpit, whatever tools we have to fight back . I I do though want to go back to the the place I started, which is I also think that we've got to take ownership of our shortcomings and start solving highly visible and vis visceral problems that affect people every day. I I mean I this may sound superficial, but when people drive around Los Angeles and see the state of the freeways and see thousands of people living outside in misery and tents and trash and fires and graffiti. It just undermines our credibility. It undermines trust in government. It makes it that much harder to stand for something different that people can believe in. And I'm not pretending that the Republicans have got it all right. They've got plenty of problems and red states have plenty of problems. We we do a better job in many ways at being economically inclusive and certainly more welcoming socially and politically. But I just I think we've got to also fix our fundamental problems, starting with the high cost of housing. And until we grapple with that, I don't think we're going to be a very effective resistance. Yeah. My my last question for you is about housing, which is in California, we have something called Prop 13. Sure, you know about it, listeners nationally don't. It was passed in the late 70s. Younger Californians mostly hate it because it means that new home buyers pay much higher property taxes on like the identical house to someone who bought it 40 years earlier. You can correct me if I'm getting the I'm shorthanding this. It creates this general unfairness and it can lock up housing supply because if you're a senior, you're not going to downsize if that means you're going to pay a much higher property tax, right? You want to lock in that privileged tax rate. Um over time, Prop thirteen has gutted revenue for California's public schools and like smart, kind of wonky people I know almost literally will blame it for like all of California's problems. There there are a number of books to that effect as well. And so like sadly , it feels politically impossible to repeal the thing because uh high propensity to vote seniors like it because it keeps their property taxes low. So like what do we do here? How do we bring some fairness to property tax collection and unfreeze the housing market with this anchor around our neck? Yeah. How many hours do you have? Yeah. Wednesday, Thursday? Yeah. I think one is just across the board, our housing issues come down to a lack of supply. So we need to build more housing, and that will slow down the rate at which the value of housing goes up, which will help moderate property tax increases. The reason Prop thirteen was passed was property tax increases were happening so fast that people were literally getting pushed out of their homes because they couldn't keep pace with the rising costs. So it it doesn't freeze it, but it caps it at a one and a half percent increase per year, which you could argue is too low. Mabey to properly