Succession News and Concluding Remarks

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So Eamon, uh if you're not watching, he's the host of the weekend prime time, which are Saturdays and Sundays on MS Now at six PM Eastern. Uh, and Amen, we are now uh colleagues not just at MS, where I'm a contributor, but now there's this crooked MS uh uh you know, they're they we're crossing the streams, as they say. Um so some crooked content is going to be on a show on MS. Maybe this I don't know, maybe you you pop up on your own network uh here. That would be great, yeah. I actually when I saw the news, I I was very excited. Um, you know, I think Uh you know, cross collaboration, uh, crooked media is breaking new grounds and doing incredible things now for a couple of years. I think there's so much uh synergy between the two organizations. Uh and you know, honestly the way the media landscape is changing now, people are getting information and news and content and conversations. in so many different places. So the more platforms you're on and the more places you our scene, the better it is for everyone. So I can't think of a better partnership than uh Crooked Media and M S now. Yeah, you gotta show up everywhere. And uh we may have to get you here for a podcast, man. Uh anytime. Any couple pictures to a couple pictures for you. Well look, we've got a great show lined up today. Uh, we're gonna cover the news out of the Munich Security Conference, uh, where I saw firsthand post European freak out uh from uh the Greenland Dust Up we'll talk about uh I really want to unpack with you uh Israel's escalation in the West Bank, uh the latest negotiations with Iran. Um, Trump's attempt to collapse the Cuban government, uh, via uh oil embargo, but really kind of starving the the population there. Um, and then just briefly some success news out of North Korea and uh I don't know, Amen, if you saw uh a piece about the downfall of Twitter troll and leader of the uh Trump Kennedy Center, Rick Grinnell. So hopefully we can get to that. He was gonna be secretary of state and now he's running a construction project. It just shows you what happens if you suck up to Trump. It doesn't usually work out. Um but let's start in Munich. Uh so I'm just gonna give a little rundown here, uh, where the security conference took place over Valentine's Day, but uh no love lost between the US and Europe. Um, and there's really nothing more romantic, amen, I have to say, than being in a windowless series of rooms with a bunch of uh technocrats and government officials. Uh talking about the collapse of the rules based order. Um I will say that there there were a couple of speeches that that kind of shadowed everything. One was J D Vance's from last year, which people were still talking about, where he went there, defended kind of w right wing nationalism, told the Germans to accept the far right, uh AFD. Uh and then Trump's uh usually, you know, grotesque and long winded Scolding and and self adulating, uh threats about Greenland to Davos. Uh although you know he he did say he wasn't gonna invade it uh now. Um This year at the conference, uh, the role of proxy for the Trump administration was played by Secretary Marco Rubio, who offered a more subtle uh version of the J D Vance message, although he slipped in plenty of uh nationalist imperialist dog whistles. Um after listing the crimes and his view of the post World War two international order. Um, including Trade and investing in welfare states and other good things like dealing with climate change. Uh he got down to business. So I want to play a clip from this uh Rubio speech for us to respond to. The United States of America will once again Take on the task of renewal and restoration. And while we are prepared, If necessary. To do this alone. It is our preference. And it is our hope. to do this together with you. We are part of one civilization, Western civilization. We are bound to one another by the deepest bonds that nations could share, forged by centuries of shared history, Christian faith, culture, heritage. language, ancestry. And so this is why we Americans may sometimes come off as a little direct and urgent in our council. This is why President Trump demands seriousness and reciprocity from our friends here in Europe. The reason why, my friends It's because we care deeply. We care deeply about your future and ours. We in America have no interests. in being polite and orderly caretakers of the West's managed decline. All right. Uh so I wrote something up on subsec about this, but I I was there and one of the strange things I noticed was On the one hand, the Europeans, uh, in private, you know, and sometimes in public are you know furious, alarmed, uh freaked out about the US uh And what Trump's doing. On the other hand, there was a lot of thank you for kicking us in the ass and we were s gonna spend a little more on defense and it's all because of you and they gave Rubio a standing ovation. It felt like a kind of abusive relationship. You know, they've been Kind of you know, uh Well abused and they're now they're like kind of thanking us for for kicking them in the ass. But I mean, what did you think of Rubio's speech and the kind of the vibes coming out of Munich? I mean the first thing that comes to my mind is instead of him saying that, you know, us Americans can be a little direct and urgent at times, it's perhaps that us Americans can be a little bit arrogant. Uh and you clearly see that when you are talking uh about American foreign policy in so many parts of the world, like uh what you just uh described in in in uh in in Munich. Because if you look at so many of these issues case by case, if you look at how America is dealing with Ukraine, if you look at how Donald Trump is talking about Greenland, if you look at how Donald Trump uh is praising people like Victor Orban, the authoritarian leader who has rolled back democracy in Hungary. That is not about shared values. That is not about heritage and culture. That is about autocracy. And that is about America telling the Europeans what we want them. Uh and you wrote about that a little bit i in your sub stack, right? You you kind of highlighted about the The perspective of America when you kind of look back at where America's viewpoints were about Ukraine during the Biden administration and where they are now. And How much uh young Germans that you spoke to were saying that look The United States and by extension Europe. to be in direct conflict with Russia within five years. Um, you know, and I think for me that was jarring that Europeans see themselves now as the front lines of this Russian expansionist or potential war and the Americans are lecturing them arrogantly about You know, we're gonna take over Greenland, we're gonna take over uh other parts uh of what we need in terms of global powers, whether it's Cuba, Venezuela, or elsewhere. Yeah, and and actually, Amen, uh you know, Rubia went on to Hungary to endorse uh Victor Orban. Uh and I'm glad you brought up Ukraine um because You know, there's the rhetoric, but then the substance and the substance there is is pretty grim. Um And you know, uh Zelensky uh showed up. Uh he tried to talk about, you know, new packages of support for uh Europe ahead of the fourth anniversary of the war. But really they're dealing with relentless attacks on their power grid. Um Russia and Ukraine met on Tuesday in Switzerland for more talks, but we don't really see an end of the war in sight. I didn't hear anything in Munich. that was optimistic at all about either the battlefield um or the talks. There's a feeling that, you know, the US isn't obviously providing the same kind of assistance the Biden administration did. And Um, as you said, I I I I was really struck, Eamon, that when you're in in Europe There are these Russian sabotage operations happening. I mean, in Poland the whole shopping mall was burned down by uh Russian uh agents. Um and yeah, I met with some some Germans who were, you know, literally thinking that that they're already in an asymmetric war with cyber attacks and sabotage. I mean, you've you've been following Ukraine Uh where do you see this going? I mean, do you do do you have any hope for an end to the war in twenty twenty six? I mean, uh how how are you thinking about Ukraine these days? Look, I mean there there's so many layers to it, right? And I think um you kinda have to take a step back and look at it from a few different angles, right? If you look at it from the perspective of an American vantage point. The idea that you would let a country like Ukraine, even if by the worst description, it can be considered a fragile democracy or a budding democracy. The idea that you would rather see a country and its territorial integrity. completely broken up. Um and set a new precedent in which a country like Russia can take sovereign territory by force. And what that means for other countries around the world, I think is extremely dangerous. Um so I think from an American you know, just from an American perspective, that's not the type of precedent that you want to set. And look, there's other examples that we can talk about in the Middle East. China's watching this closely. A lot of countries are watching what the United States does, because if the United States is willing to wake up and say, you know what, Russia can take that territory by force. we tried to stop it, we couldn't stop it, then you're really setting a dangerous precedent for what happens next in a series of domino effects um in Europe. From a European perspective. I think that what you were describing, this idea that Donald Trump is kicking us in the ass to kinda wake us up and take our security, it's so humiliating, right? It's so humiliating that the Europeans are being kicked in the ass by the Americans to wake up and realize that they have to take care of their own territory, not just by the way from Russia right now. But watching Donald Trump talk about taking over Greenland and being, you know, hellbent on taking over Greenland really puts uh Europe at large in a very interesting position because let's say hypothetically the US does take control of Greenland, and they do so for the articulated reason that it's good for American national security in potentially confronting Russia or potentially confronting China. Where does that put Europe? Where does that put Europe? It puts Europe in the middle of this Unbelievable fight, cross fight that's gonna potentially happen between the United States and Russia and the Europeans are just sitting there Ducks with no say whatsoever. And you can kind of attribute that to Europe over the last several years just conceding more ground to the Americans, letting the Americans run all over them in a series of issues, whether it's foreign policy in the Middle East, whether it's things in uh Central Asia, whether it is by what we see now in Ukraine and elsewhere in Europe, that's the end result of always acquiescing to the United States and specifically with somebody like Donald Trump, who doesn't give a damn about uh European alliances or transatlantic relations. only cares about enriching his pockets and his family's pockets, um, and putting America on this path of Uh I would argue Totalitarianism. And authoritarianism that I think is extremely dangerous. Yeah. I mean it's actually, you know, you mentioned the precedent set by kind of validating the annexation of big chunks of Ukraine. I mean, maybe that's a precedent for Greenland annexation by the US. Um and look, w one more thing, well, I'd also say, by the way, the defense spending thing that everybody was crowing about. It is it's gonna take years for Europe to do that if they do. It's not gonna be relevant to Ukraine. Um but speaking out of the future, one more thing from Munich I wanted to get to, which is that There were as many as eight uh potential twenty twenty eight Democrats, uh people who might run for president twenty twenty who are at the conference. There was a lot of buzz about this. The Europeans were very curious about these people because they don't know all them uh particularly well. So we had uh Alexandria Ocasio Cortez uh of New York, obviously. We had Governors Gavin Newsome and Gretchen Whitmer, Senators Ruben Gallego and Mark Kelly who is now dipping his toe in the water, Chris Murphy of Connecticut. Well Slokan in Michigan. And former Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo. I will say that all the buzz in Munich was about AOC. Yeah. Because she had not been on the world stage this way. She spoke about what you mentioned, which is the danger of of authoritarianism. She also had some missteps. Uh I want to play a clip that has kind of both the strength and the thing that people are picking on her about uh from AOC. So uh let's hear that clip. I think one of the the connections and relationships that is under discussed, particularly in the security space, is the fact that I believe we're seeing in economy across economy uh around the world, including in the United States. that extreme levels of income inequality lead to social instability and drives in a sense in authoritarianism. domestic internal politics and that is a direct outcome of not just income inequality but the failure of democracies over decades to deliver would and should the US actually commit US troops to defend Taiwan. China were to Um you know I think that uh this is such a uh you know I I think that This is a um This is of course a uh a very longstanding um policy of the United States. So look, uh we're not picking here on ASC, but I wanna say first of all that Yeah, the the Europeans are pretty uh, you know, when they talk to me, disappointed in Democrats, where are you guys? What's the plan? In a way, we're like the Europeans. And I'm I'm the Democrat here, you're the journalist, but like we haven't figured out a way to stand up to Trump either. I will say there was a lot of excitement about AOC. She's just as popular with young Europeans as she is with young Americans. And I uh just from my perspective. I thought her s presentation of authoritarianism was w was really strong. Yeah, she flubbed the Taiwan question. But look, the the benefit for her is to just get some reps, right? She's out there, she's not been in a conference like this. Um, you're not gonna nail every answer. She does need to bone up on Taiwan, but like I'm glad she was there. What what did you think of uh A A O C and and what did you think of kind of the The way in which the Democrats seem to be groping for not just the person for twenty twenty, but some a message. that can resonate uh on the world stage. Actually I think there you know, I'm glad that you picked uh examples from AOC for two reasons. And I actually think two of AOC's most strongest sound bites uh or comments were not the ones that you played. And those were those were good for for the reasons that you outlined, but there's two other important ones. One. She talks about the rules based order not working for everyone. A couple of weeks ago, uh, you know, Mark Carney, the Prime Minister of Canada, spoke at Davos and he talked the rules based order is done and that it's, you know, right versus might and right now what we thought is the international rules based order of the last several decades since uh World War Two has collapsed or was on the verge of collapsing. And a lot of people took issue with that because it was only when Canada or European countries became in the crosshairs of America, uh, and Russia or powerful countries around the world when it came to the issue of trade. Did he then speak up? But nobody was talking about the collapse of the rules based order uh from any of these Western world leaders over the last two years when we were watching the genocide in Gaza. So what AOC did was actually smart. And I think that's part of the reason why uh young people in Europe like young people here in the United States are drawn to her. She speaks with a little bit of moral clarity. And the issue of Taiwan is a political issue, and perhaps there is some moral issue to it, but it's certainly a national security issue. And so as you said, she needs to kind of flush out that idea and see how the Taiwan issue fits into a moral foreign policy. in which you could have had a very strong international rules based order because you could have said, look, if we would have upheld international rules and norms and order, we would have been able to have a much stronger alliance to say to China, you cannot overtake Taiwan with military force. But because the rules based order has been eroded and destroyed for a variety of reasons. That idea of like the only way to defend other territory right now is purely by America committing troops. And I think that's what That's why that answer landed flat. The second part uh of the the soundbite that you played uh which was good, I I think is really important. But another soundbite that she talked about that was so important, which I think is why young people are drawn to her, is that she said the United States has effectively enable the genocide in Gaza for the past two years without uh any restrictions on weapons to Israel. And again, it's a moral litmus test. And that's why when young people who are consuming news and are much more plugged into the world, um in a globalized way. Are listening and watching what is happening coming out of places like Sudan and Gaza and Congo. questioning what is happening at the highest levels of government. And when she talked about that, when she made that point and that connection between the United States' foreign policy and the genocide in Gaza, I think that's why she has such an appeal and such a buzz. Could you potentially get a presidential candidate? who is going to run on the major democratic party ticket. Ен спік ви суч молди і авторитав. um you know, nuance on some of these issues, I think is why she has such an appeal. And I gotta say, you know, I've watched Gavin news him and I think he's done an amazing job on so many issues. And he is a no doubt a contender and he has such a smart appeal in the way that he's uh speaking to Donald Trump and and communicating in an effective way. But he also hasn't effectively communicated uh on a lot of issues regarding the Middle East, and certainly not when it comes to Israel or APEC or uh dark money in in the United States. And you know, I don't know if he thinks that there's an added value in speaking to Ben Shapiro or other conservatives, but that's a whole other ballgame, you know? But but I'm just giving you like I know there's buzz up around the two of them, but I think that's what I kind of walked away from having listened to AOC uh at the Munich Security Conference. Yeah, they they were definitely the two people that the Europeans were interested in. And in and in in a strange way, I mean it's super early, but they feel like the two most interesting people to be watching now. You're right about Gaza. And I mean to me it it's not just Gaza. Um as important as the issue is, and we're about to talk about uh guys on the West Bank. It's also that is the litmus test to me as to whether you have any morality in your foreign policy. Correct. You can't you can't carve out a genocide. Yeah. You can't say we're for rules based order, but we will arm a government committing genocide over here. Pots of the world is brought to you by Quince. The well-built wardrobe is about pieces that work together and hold up over time. That's what Quince does best. Premium materials, thought design, and everyday staples that feel easy to wear and easy to rely on, even as the weather shifts. Quince has the everyday essentials I love with quality that lasts. 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Plus WISE runs over seven million daily checks to catch and prevent fraud. fifteen million people already trust wise to manage their money internationally. Be smart. Wise. Uh, I've used Wise before. It is super easy um you save money, you save time, you never have to worry about the exchange rate, you never have to worry about lugging around a bunch of cash. It's just a really smart way to send and spend money internationally or to when you travel. So download the Wise app today or visit Wise dot com. Terms and conditions apply. Okay, Eamon, let's turn to the occupied West Bank, where Netanyahu's far right coalition government has moved to expand and solidify Israeli control and really squeeze the West Bank. And and let's be clear, the goal here is not Subtle. Um we had The finance min Minister Smotric, who's you know, usually the id of this right wing government, you know, say uh about these recent steps. We are deepening our roots in all parts of the land of Israel, and he sees the West Bank as part of Israel. And we are bearing the idea of a Palestinian state. So this is not subtle. Uh, I want to go through these moves and then ask you about them. And and they may sound a little bureaucratic and the press are often described as administrative, even though they're really about annexation of other people's land. Uh and cumulatively, they're just destroying what is ever left of uh the idea of the Palestinian state. So first People some context. The Oslo Courts divided the West Bank into three areas. Uh, area A, which is eighteen percent of the West Bank, that's under the control of the PA, the Palestinian Authority. Area B, that's twenty two percent of the West Bank. That's joint control of the PA in Israel. Area C that's sixty percent of the West Bank, that's under Israeli control. So first of all, people A lot of people don't know this. Israel. controls most of the West Bank. They people like to talk about the weak, feckless Palestinian authority. Well, one of the reasons they're weak and feckless is they don't even control the territory that they're supposed to. Um but now the changes in the last couple of weeks the Israeli government has made a series of announcements To make it easier for Israelis to purchase land from Palestinians. To expand Israeli enforcement. including the power to demolish Palestinian buildings, which they regularly do, into areas A and B, so the Palestinian controlled uh areas, for violations involving uh to quote the Wall Street Journal. Water related offenses, damaged archaeological sites, and environmental hazards. So basically pretext for them to just go in and and demolish. Palestinian structures. Um made Israel the sole authority for planning permission near important religious sites, of which there are many, and for the first time since nineteen sixty seven, Israel will begin to designate large portions of Area C as state land. And the goal is fifteen percent of AC in the next few years, uh, unless the current Palestinian owners can prove their ownership. And as the Israeli organization piece now notes, that process requires landowners to prove ownership in ways that are really almost impossible for Palestinians uh to do so. Eamon, uh w what do you make of these uh steps uh and what's been going on in the West Bank recently? Uh something that doesn't get as much attention as it should. You know, the it's something that has been going on for years. I think now it's been It's now official state policy and it's overt and the world can see it. But the reality of of it is Israel has been annexing and expanding illegal Jewish settlements since nineteen sixty seven. in defiance of international law. And again, you know, I don't want to sound uh, you know, repetitive here, but there are a few ways to look at it. The Israeli government has always been, particularly this right wing government, the most extreme in Israel's history, has always been hellbent. on annexing the West Bank. Yeah. Uh it's in the party platform. of the Lakud charter that uh there will only be Jewish sovereignty from the river to the sea. That is not new. Uh Israeli politicians, uh Benjamin Netanyahu, Ben Gavir, uh Smothridge, they've all talked openly. About how Israel will incorporate all of the West Bank Um, and as we saw previously with the Trump administration overtaking the Golan Heights. So the idea of territorial acquisition for Israel is nothing new. the way they do it over the years and the decades has changed. Sometimes they pay lip service to Western diplomacy and they say we're gonna go along with the Oslo process or the peace process. We're gonna do the quartet. We're gonna do whatever that we can Keep the international community believing that we're committed to a two state solution. But in reality, we determine what happens on the ground. And what happens on the ground is that we can build settlements, we can build roads, we can create apartheid like systems. We control the lives of the millions of Palestinians who live in the West Bank, in East Jerusalem, and of course the Gaza Strip. So what you're seeing now Is the kind of the the veil has been lifted and now the state is now embarking on this annexation process. And they're kind of doing it piecemeal just to see to what extent the international community is going to uh speak up or try to do something about it. And they realize that Donald Trump is spread thin. In fact, Donald Trump is openly against annexation has said Look, we've got so much going on right now, we don't have time to think about the West Bank. And that is exactly what the Israelis wanted to hear. They wanted to hear an American president say because they don't care about whether he likes annexation or not. He they just wanted to hear him say, I've got so much on my plate right now, I can't even deal about the West Bank because then In their minds, they're like, This is the perfect time. Let's go ahead and start this process of annexing the West Bank and making Israel completely sovereign, uh take over the complete territory of the West Bank and making it part of Israeli sovereignty. And look, I think As somebody who believes in a one democratic state. that incorporates all of the Palestinians and Jews that live from the river to the sea and have equal rights and and the ability to vote. I'm not against and I know this sounds kind of controversial. I'm not against that Israel's annexing the West Bank. I'm against the idea that Israel's annexing the West Bank preserving this apartheid system that exists, which again is what human rights organizations around the world have described, um, is in place in the West Bank. And so you have this system that's in place there. Palestinians don't have equal rights. Their homes are demolished. Their land is confiscated. They're arbitrarily arrested. I can go on and on and on. And there's another system of hierarchy that allows uh Jewish citizens of the state of Israel to build and develop and grow and flourish. And because of that, we have what we have right now, which is Israel controls the entire territory from the river to the sea in a hierarchical structure based on r religion and ethnicity. And that's why we have the system that we have. And the international community, by the way. Completely sleep at the wheel. Completely sleep at the wheel condemnation. Statements from the UN Secretary General. But other than that, nothing. Maybe a statement here or there. Israel doesn't care about statements. And as we were just talking about in the case of Europe and um, you know, the rules based order. Nobody, nobody's gonna step in and stop Israel from doing what it is doing right now. Yeah, I mean you're describing the dynamic exactly. It and again, it connects to the Ukraine and Greenland point. I mean, now is the era of no rules and now's the era of annexation. Now's the time to grab while the grabbing's good, you know? Exactly. And And and you know, you mentioned some of these responses. I mean, Trump says I'm against annexation. Uh, we have enough things to think about now. I mean that that's not exactly coming down hard. That's not like, you know, conditioning assistance to Israel or using real leverage. The US knows the president of the United States that he has to have like many portfolios. It's not like you only know you don't you don't you don't just you're not in charge of like two or three things at a time. You you actually do have to deal with all the world's crises. Yeah, and including one where, you know, you presumably have a lot of of leverage on Israel. The the UN Secretary General condemned the decision, but I mean the the Israelis just flattened the UN facility in East Jerusalem for UNRW. It's literally people should look at this online. It's completely destroyed the the UN headquarters there. That tells sway the UN has there. The Arab States released a statement um, you know, saying Israel's accelerating illegal annex and the displacement of the Palestinian people, but Okay, that's another set of words. So it it does feel like uh there's not really any to these the Israelis are pushing and testing Um now Presumably. Uh the body that would uh take up this kind of challenge. Uh it it is UN meanwhile is seeking to replace that with the Board of Peace, um, which is uh having its inaugural meeting uh on Thursday, right in time for Ramadan. Um And that that does I wanna bring in Gaza here too, because uh in Gaza we've seen just I'd say violations of the ceasefire from uh Israel repeatedly, but it's not even really a ceasefire if you're just allowed to periodically bomb um Gaza and kill hundreds of people now. Um Hamas uh is also said that they're not going to uh disarm uh in these circumstances. Uh Nanyahu said over the weekend that Israel would uh refuse to move to the next phase of the seesaw without that disarmament. Nanyo's cabinet secretary has said uh on Monday that the Trump administration has asked for a sixty day grace period for Hamas to disarm, and if they failed to do so, Then he says, quote, the IDF will have to complete the mission. Um not sure what the mission is other than kind of the complete further destruction in of Gaza. Um so it doesn't feel like the the whole, you know, peace plan is going well. Um we have this meeting of the Board of Peace. Uh I I wanna uh just throw one more thing into this mix, uh, Amen, which is There's one man who's very excited about what's happening over there, and that's Lindsey Graham. Um He made another trip to Israel. He seems to go there more than South Carolina. Uh, he's very excited about all the wars uh that could be upcoming. I I wanna play a clip here from Lindsey Graham. The wars of the future are being planned here in Israel. 'Cause if you're not one step ahead of the enemy, you're you suffer. The most clever creative military forces on the planet are here in Israel, because they have to be to survive. So what we're looking at is that Israel is advancing down the road of new weaponry far beyond us. It would be nice to have a uh A process where we could be partners. So the wars of the future being planned in Israel made me uh unintentionally. There's nothing like a US Senator going overseas to take a jab And America's own military. There's nothing there's nothing that sounds more America first than going to Israel and saying, Hey, these guys really are doing such a great job with their military equipment. I wish we could learn from them. Let's try to partner up with them. I mean it's just like I know I the optics of it, right? I mean it used to be a time that when you're a senator, a Republican senator from South Carolina or from elsewhere That you would talk about the strength of the American military and how America's military is a force for good or what have you. Not go to Israel and say, We gotta learn from them. These guys are such amazing warriors, not like ours back home in the US. Uh yeah. I mean, he he's just could barely contain his excitement. I mean w you you've covered Gaza as just about as well as any journalist over the last fifteen years. I mean w when you look at this Board of Peace meeting what what do you expect out of that? Uh where do you see this ceasefire process going? Uh in in the next few weeks. So I think I'll start with the where I think the ceasefire is this so called ceasefire 'cause I totally agree with you. I don't think it's a ceasefire. Um Israel's been acting with impunity, has violated it every step of the way, has not even implemented it, let alone Violate it. Um, when it comes to the issue of You don't have to take my word for it. You just have to listen to Israeli security and intelligence officials who are very clear. That there is no way to destroy the idea of Hamas inside of Gaza. You the Israelis uh security officials are openly talking about how they've destroy the entire upper echelon. uh and command structure, if you will, or contr command and control structure, if you will. They've killed all the senior leaders, political leaders, military leaders, Mohammed Daddif, you name it, they've killed them. And yet the organization persisted in its ability to retain whatever control of Gaza exists. It still has uh battalions of fighters. American intelligence has assessed that Hamas in the span of two years of going through this genocide has managed to recruit and fill its ranks with the same number of people that Israel has allegedly killed over the course of those two years. So as a net hole, the organization maybe has suffered in its capabilities and has been degraded, no doubt about that, but has not been destroyed. And the idea that has given birth to Hamas is still very much planted in Gaza. And it's not an idea um is something that is going to be uprooted with bombs and drones and surveillance and and what we've seen over the past two years. That's That is literally the assessment of both American intelligence officials as well as Israeli intelligence officials. What Netanyahu is doing. is he knows very well. Та да і на атем. To try and Stabilized in Gaza. detain Israel from resuming full scale a full blown war. And You know, he's got people in his right wing government that are agitating. to resettle to repopulate Gaza with Jewish settlers and to make Gaza part of uh Greater Israel. They've openly talked about even even during the ceasefire, they've openly talked about the need to Expel. Or force. uh Palestinians out of Gaza into Egypt so that they can retake uh control that uh land. And we've obviously heard Jared Cushner's amazing condo resort plan. Yeah. And technology corridors and parks and amazing you know, they just basically want to take a genocide in the in the the ruins of a genocide and just completely uh whitewash it with tourism parks and uh and surf clubs and who knows what else they have in store for Gaza. Look th this the these are these are deranged ideas. Deranged ideas. Um, and as you said, the Board of Peace is is the least of those deranged ideas. And I know a lot of people who've been talking to me unofficially about it. Nobody takes the Board of Peace seriously. People are indulging Donald Trump very much like the president of FIFA gave him a trophy calling him, you know, the the FIFA Peace Prize, right? It's it the Board of Peace is no different. These are world leaders who are preoccupied with governing their countries, trying to deal with all kinds of issues domestically and internationally, and they have to deal with a narcissistic American president. Who just wants to constantly make himself king of the world. And so instead of standing up to him and confronting him, much to our detriment as American citizens who would like to see the world also stand up to an American president, uh, they have to kind of go along with it because they have to take care of their constituents. And in some cases, these countries just don't want to be in an open, direct confrontation with the United States, rhetorically or even economically, right? I mean, some of the policies that that these countries are embarking on, uh, just to go along with the US is to avoid tariffs and to avoid confrontation and try to placate a president who's like extremely narcissistic. So uh again, do I think that the Board of Peace is gonna deliver on anything? I personally don't. Um I don't know anyone who's purely optimistic about it other than Jared Cushner, but again, I think he's selling a real estate plan. I don't think he's genuinely selling uh any kind of just mechanism for the Palestinian people or security for Israeli people. Yeah. Well, you know, one thing and I constantly point this out to uh one sign uh that we're moving different stage would be if they actually let international journalists into Gaza to see what happened there. Uh and that still has not happened. 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You can turn it on and off from your phone. It's great. But also look. There's a lot of break ins these days. They're happening in weird times. Happening during the day in Los Angeles all the time. It's a little scary. You really do want someone monitoring your house, being able to prevent break ins, being able to call the cops if you're not around or make sure you're safe, if God forbid you're in the home when this happens. So Consider Simply Safe for your protection. Why wait? Protect your home today. Enjoy fifty percent off a new simply safe system with professional monitoring at simplysafe.com slash crooked world. That's simply safe.com slash crooked world. There's no safe like simply safe. Let's talk about the latest in Iran, which is uh you know, you and I talk to people in the region, that's what everybody is uh very worried about right now and focused on. Um that there's this ongoing threat of uh US military action. There's a lot of US military assets in the region. And there have been these uh indirect nuclear negotiations between the US and the Iranian government uh which uh have been mediated by Oman. On Tuesday there were talks in Switzerland. Uh, they ended after what Amans farm minister called good progress. But we don't really know what that means. Uh the Iranian foreign minister said that both sides had agreed to, quote, a set of guiding principles. And told state TV that this round of talks were more constructive and that progress is made, you know, kinda buzzwords of diplomacy without any details. Um This round of negotiations came after a visit to the White House by Benjamin Netanyahu last week. At that meeting Trump and Netanyao apparently agreed to ramp up the economic pressure as if there's anything more you can do to sanction the Iranians. Uh, but they've talked about targeting oil sales to China. Um which would be you know, uh it would involve sanctions on the Chinese, which would uh be further strain on the global economy. Uh I will say also that um nobody's talking about the protesters anymore who, you know, clearly there were thousands of people killed. That was the basis under which Trump said he was gonna take military action, but now we're just talking about nuclear issues and and ballistic missiles. Um I know we're we're reading Te Lease here, Amen, but What what is your read on the kind of state of play uh uh with Iran? What are you hearing from the region about, you know, people's uh uh Maybe hopes uh for for what's happening. Yeah, I mean I listen, I I definitely want to answer that, but I was gonna actually ask you because you know, Riza Palavi was speaking in in at the Munich security conference. And then actually I was gonna ask you about that in terms of I don't know if you had a chance to hear him talk, but I'm curious to get your thoughts about how he's kind of been elevated on the global stage now, right? All of a sudden Uh, and look, th he he's always had his followers. The monarchists always supported him and they've always kind of thought of him as a legitimate uh replacement to the regime. I don't think a lot of people in the Iranian diaspora, even in the Iranian opposition necessarily took him seriously, but in the last couple of And certainly in the last um couple of months, there has been a lot of th been this kind of concerted push to elevate him. uh by Western leaders. And so how was he received at the Munich Security Conference? So wh what did he say? Because I I think there's been criticism that he's being put in these platforms. He's not being really tested with the questions that he's being asked. He's not giving a very clear vision uh about what he wants to do. Because the way that I kind of look at a run, and I and I can talk about this in a second is It's kind of about the three Ds, right? Like the day of A potential. Collapse of a regime, the decade, the day after, and then the decade after. What happens in those three periods of time? The day that the regime is gone, the day after the regime is gone, and then the decade after. And I have my reservations about how it will look like, but what what was your take from Listening to Shah Reza speak at uh Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's it was fascinating because y first of all, inside the you know, security conference and all the side events, uh look really the focus was on Ukraine and European defense spending and these issues, you know, Greenland. Um Outside Uh there were like uh you know uh Tens and tens, if not hundreds of thousands, of people there to see Reza Plavi speak. He was kind of now he was on the world stage. He was meeting with leaders. He met with Zelensky, you know, who uh I mean he's trying to kind of obviously be on the right side of Trump. Um, we've seen Plavi with Netanyahu. So the First of all Um the the the read in the in the rooms that I was in was at This guy can't really be uh nobody could really explain the scenario by which he's gonna somehow become a leader inside of Iran. Um, like like literally nobody I talk to practical way in which you know the US bombs Iran and then and I should say what Pahlav was saying. was, you know, militarily intervened. So kind of a strange situation. where you have somebody asking the US to bomb his country. Um That's his you know, that's where he's putting all of his cards, you know, like we need intervention. And then he's be he basically was promising You know, it Then you'll have a good regime. And and he was saying Not only is that right for the protesters, not only is that delivering democracy, but he was saying, I will be your strategic partner, you know. Yeah, their oil will be available, you know, and and actually a lot of people were were were speculating Well, maybe Trump's real interest in Iran is the oil. Which is actually not something that's discussed a lot publicly, but you know, that it's not the nuclear issue and it's not the human rights concerns. It's that like Venezuela, Iran could be a source of of oil for the United States or taking that away from China, that's the biggest uh buyer of that oil. Um That was kind of the the the mood music. I think there was also another interesting dynamic, Amen where You know, he has gotten a lot of support in the diaspora. But a lot of people I talked to were like, I don't know that that's the same as in the country. And and yet people in the country absolutely want change. They're sick of this regime. They want hominy gone, like he's old, he's been around forever. There was a sense that there's this growing gap that's maybe not particularly healthy between the diaspora that is kind of going along with the Pilavi play and people inside the country. So that that was kind of the read I got. Yeah, and and listen, I think that's exactly what this issue is. And and we can be mature and hold two separate ideas. The people of Iran want this regime gone, and the people of Iran deserve to have their aspirations heard and fulfilled, and they should determine their own future. They are entitled to self determination, uh, free from autocracy. theocracy like any other uh grouping of people in the world. Nobody that has spoken about this issue has offered clear and concise plan as to what The day after the collapse of a regime looks like. And you know, I covered the Iraq War. I remember a lot. of Iraqi opposition figures who wanted military intervention to destroy Saddam Hussein and his regime and to get rid of the the Bathist regime. in Iraq. Um and so What I, as a journalist, learned covering the Iraq War. was that for America and American military might probably pretty easy to destroy a regime. It's probably pretty easy to kill The senior leadership of the Iranian regime. And in fact, Israel demonstrated that they were able to do that in July. relatively easily, I would say, um, but it did not destroy the regime. And so any American military involvement to Try the top of this regime. cannot just be about killing senior figures who run ministries or run governments or run various security apparatuses or religious uh organizations and institutions. You're talking about an i a ri a regime that has been entrenched in Iranian society. for almost 47 years. You're talking about a country of 90 million people that has a regime structure that probably includes about 20 million people. Even if you say 10 million of them or 15 million of them are just servants of the state and or civil servants of the state are not not hardcore loyalists. What happens to the two million or three million loyalists of the regime? once the regime is collapsed and then they are now inside this country and are not allowed to be a part of a political process or not allowed to be a part of any kind of process in which a leader is imposed on them and they now reject that leader. That's exactly what we saw happen in Iraq. Now are you telling that the Iraqi people under Saddam. And they're heavily armed. Yeah. Yes. They were heavily armed. Paul Bremmer and the CPA, of course, at the time dissolved the entire state, dissolved the Bathis. And so you had you woke up one day and all the people who were working in the state picked up arms and started fighting the Americans. So unless you're willing to put American troops on the ground inside of Iran to preserve the integrity of the state. Um There are a lot of questions as to whether or not the state will fracture Along ethnic lines. um and you'll have separatist movements in various parts of the country. We're already hearing some troubling language coming out from various parts of the Iranian diaspora that speak to this ethnic division. And you know It's it's important whoever emerges as a potential leader for the Iranian people to emphasize territorial integrity, to emphasize um a cohesive country that incorporates Iran's diversity. But I think People who are just saying like, oh, let's get rid of the regime and plant a new uh opposition leader who's gonna be a transitional leader, but offer no plan and offer no system and offer no insight. uh and not be tested and not even talk about what kind of infrastructure leader has currently inside a run. I think that's very troubling. Um, and I think it it puts a lot of the countries in the region uh on edge because If you thought the Iraq War. And the refugee crisis that it created. across the region for countries like Jordan. for countries like Turkey, for countries in Europe. For countries in the Gulf, if you thought that was a problem, imagine a country of ninety million people, uh, including Iranians, spilling over all across uh the area and having porous borders with Afghanistan or Pakistan or elsewhere and see then what kind of crises may emerge. in terms of national, transnational security issues, whether it's in Europe or in the Gulf. Yeah, I mean this came up and it you don't see discuss much, but you know, four times the size of Syria. And if you have an implosion in uh in Iran, um you you you could have refugee millions of refugees into Europe, into Afghanistan, right? Um the best case scenario I can you know, the clear these talks are playing for time. You get a deal. I mean, you know, Khamene is seven is eighty seven years old, he's sick. Th there's a sense that If he's dies or you know, that that's going to happen relatively soon. That there you could see this evolution of the the government, the evolution of the regime in a different direction. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break, but first, subscribers are loving the new content that we're dropping for Friends of the Pod. Pod Save America Only Friends, a new episode dropped Thursday with Alex Wagner and Aaron Ryan. Open tabs a behind the scenes newsletter from Pod Save America editor Reed Churlin. Subs also get, of course, ad free content to Pod Save the World, exclusive Q and A's with me and Tommy. And additional bonus content like One of my favorite shows on the Crooked Verse, Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer. New episodes are dropping this Thursday. Subscribing supports independent progressive media as well, as you hear us say, it allows us uh to really grow what we do here at Crooked. It gives you access to a great community of fellow crooked listeners across the country and around the world. please subscribe to friends of the pod at crooked dot com slash friends. I will say I also have a new book coming out. I've talked about this on May 26. All We Say, The Battle for American Identity, A History in 15 Speeches. Please check that out. Uh, pre-orders are available now, wherever you pre-order books. And you can check out my sub stack. We'll link to both in the new show notes. This podcast is sponsored Strawberry.me Let me ask you something. You think LeBron Patrick Mahomes or Serena got that GOAT status by guessing? No. Coaching. Every pro athlete has a specialized coach watching their form, calling the plays, and finding the blind spots they can't see themselves. That is how you win championships. Imagine? There was a Bill Belichick for podcasting. Oh. putting up chips, getting wearing rockin' rings. Riding off into the sunset with a teenager. 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Strawberry.me because pros don't guess. They get coached to win. Look, we have a depressing theme here, uh, 'cause we now we're on Cuba. Um and and the theme is places that are on the verge of collapse here. Um, in Latin America We should note, you know, this is kind of clearly where post uh the Maduro Aster, Trump is uh and Marco Rubio focus on Cuba. Um and and really have cracked down on uh it's already a uh you know decades long embargo on Cuba. briefly interrupted uh by me in the Obama years for a couple of years, um, when we normalize things and open things up a bit. Uh but Cubans are suffering immensely. And I just wanna spotlight how much Cubans are suffering from this kind of blockade that has now spread very much to cutting off any oil getting in. Gas and fuel supplies have been cut off. That's causing long blackouts. That's leading to fuel shortages. Havana's airport is out of jet fuel. Um there there's a recent op ed from uh two friends of mine, Emily Mondrala and Maria Jose Espinosa and El Paez, it was published today. They they kind of go through this humanitarian crisis. They analyze satellite imagery. And they found, for instance, that light levels, so the ability of electricity fell by fifty percent in January, right? So people don't have electricity. You know, that that has impacts on hospitals, that has impacts on people's ability to to to have basic needs met. Um, you've had this kind of collapse in Cuba's uh GDP. Um you've had Cubans protesting, but you know, the uh as in Iran, like the government still has the guns, right? Um and and so you're you're seeing more and more people criticizing this international community. The UN human rights chief, uh, Volko Turk has criticized the sanctions and asked that countries not hold back oil deliveries to Cuba in line with Trump's demands. Mexico is providing some humanitarian aid. Um Claudia Shainbaum's been outspoken about this. Pedro Sanchez in Spain, I saw, is gonna start to provide some assistance. But really it feels like we're reaching some kind of breaking point. Now uh Trump was asked about this on Air Force One yesterday. Here's what he had to say. We're warning Cuba to make a deal. Uh, what does that deal look like? What do you think? Cuba is right now a failed nation. They don't even have jet fuel to get for airplanes to take off. They're logging up their runway. talking to Cuba right now. Marco Rubio are talking to Cuba right now. And they should absolutely make a deal because it's a humanitarian threat. We have a lot of great Cuban Americans and uh they're gonna be very happy when they're gonna be able to go back and say hello to their relatives and do things that they shouldn't have been allowed to do for a long time. If the deal mean would you consider an operation like the one in Venezuela? Why would I answer that? If I if I was it wouldn't be a very tough operation. As you can I don't think that'll be necessary. All right, Amen. Uh you know, I you you're like Iran, right? I mean uh there's not really a a gov I mean, you can't just move a government from Miami down to Cuba. Um, the place implodes, we're gonna have refugees uh into the United States. We could have kind of a Haiti Um ninety miles from Florida. What do you make of where this Cuba thing is going? And and why do you think it's not getting more attention, you know, in the I mean can I just say really quickly two things. One, Donald Trump suddenly caring about Cuban Americans being able to go say hi to their relatives is c is like the just the absurdity of this. That's exactly Obama did. President Obama made it possible for Cuban Americans to go down and say hello to their relatives and actually try to co-op the country. And they did. It drives me you're you're hitting my buttons, man, because it drives me fucking nuts because those things were happening. And he's making it sound like he's doing it for humanitarian purposes, right? He's like, Oh, we want them to be able to go down there and say hi to their relatives because it's a mess. Well, A, there's a similarity between the mess that you're seeing in Cuba and the mess that you're seeing in Iran, because all you have to do is listen to Scott Basset, the the Treasury Secretary. who basically said, look, we collapsed the Iranian currency, which led to the protest taken to the streets. And now you're seeing the same playbook in Cuba, which is we are the ones who are making the economic conditions so miserable for the people in Cuba that they're gonna go out to the streets to protest. And what's gonna happen is they're gonna get gunned down and killed. because of a policy that we're trying to implement by collapsing their economies. So let's just be very clear about that and speak very clearly about what the United States is doing in Cuba and Iran is implode these countries, make the people suffer. They go out to the streets to demand a better uh country, they get gunned down and we abandon them as we are now currently doing in Iran. We'll see if whether the president when he said, you know, we're locked and loaded or we're ready to help, we'll see what that actually means and we'll see what that happens, what that means actually in Cuba. But the idea that the United States and for me look The administration has tried to portray Cuba as a threat to America, right, as a national security threat. That's a joke. Let's just be very clear about that. Cuba is not a threat to the United States of America. This is just something that Marco Rubio is personally obsessed with. Marco Rubio wants to deliver the collapse of Cuba. Uh, to the United States. And by the way, again, I love that Donald Trump says Castro is it like we're talking to Castro, he doesn't even know that the president of Cuba is no longer Castro, it's not even his brother. So like here he is kind of just clueless, absolutely clueless. A president who's running a country that is clueless. But you have Marco Rubia who's hell bent on regime change in Cuba. Just the same way. that you have the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Nanya who hellbent on regime change in Iran. Um and and that's what scares me the most is that these people are just out this you know, I they're they're doing this for either personal gripes or for whatever ideological reasons. But it's clear that Cuba is not a threat to the United States of America. It will be if it collapses and as you said, uh thousand, if not tens of thousands of refugees stream across into the United States. And again, Donald Trump doesn't give a damn. About Cubans, uh, migrants. He revoked their TPS, their temporary protective status in the United States. He's done that for Haitians. He's done that he's deporting people back. to the Middle East. He's deporting Iranians back to the regime in Iran. He doesn't care about these people. Give me a break. Yeah. I mean, I'm gonna just, you know Say one thing about this 'cause uh this drives me nuts but uh because f first of all, you're right about the national security threat. There is none from Cuba. None. They can't even identify it. And that's what's interesting about these talks. 'Cause with Iran you at least know they could be talking about nucleons or ballistic missiles. Cuba has nothing to trade away in talks. Like there's n there there's no threat. They they don't support drug drugs they're actually very anti drug trafficking. So What you're trying to negotiate, I guess, is regime change, which is, you know, how how does a regime negotiate its own Collapse. Um uh maybe they can come up with something and like release some political prisoners, I don't know what, but it's not gonna be enough for Marco Rubio because he wants regime change. And the thing I'm just gonna like complain about here. Amen. Is it like you know, in the Obama years, uh we get all this scrutiny about, you know, what are you doing on the human rights questions? And we did a lot, by the way. We got a lot of political prisoners out, we got internet into that country. Um You know what? Like the you get this focus on like uh the treatment of of dissidents in Cuba, that's important. But starving millions of people. is worse for human rights than even like dozens of dissidents being imprisoned. Um wh why is that not a human rights problem? Why is US policy being a basically collective punishment of Cubans, largely Afro Cubans, uh I should note, wh why is that That not an issue. Um Afro Cubans don't have a strong political constituency in the United States. They don't, and and the constituency that is is is harder line and and sports Ruby. And I get it, like the Cuban Government has been ter they mismanaged things, they have outdated economic models. They repress people. Um it's also the case that if you put a total embargo on a country, they can't change. You know, you're fossilizing it. Right? And and it's the same thing true with politics. If you can't get exposed to different ideas and different people, like how are you going to evolve? But anyway, I could talk about Cuba. Yeah, all day. I I just on our tour of repressive regimes, this one I just want to kinda give a quick update. South Korea's intelligence service. uh has said that girl dad, uh Kim Jong un is selecting his thirteen year old uh Kim Joui as his heir, which, you know, uh I guess is the most progressive thing we've seen out of North Korean a while, but it uh I don't have a lot of hope for change. She's been showing up at events with Kim. You know, that means she shows up and looks at things with him. Um Which, you know, seems he's she's being groomed uh to be a successor. Um the Telegraph breathlessly reported that this could spark a power struggle though between the thirteen year old and her thirty eight year old aunt. uh Kim Yojong who had previously been thought of as a potential Power behind the throne, if not successor. Um, who the paper claims is scheming for the position herself. Um so we'll see the soap opera that is uh the succession in North Korea. I mean this matters, by the way, just because Kim does not look like he's in perfect health. Amen. I don't know what you think here. Um but anyway. Well unless they've managed to like smuggle an Ozempic into the country, I don't think is uh Exactly. And I again, you know, just the optics of it just does not look like he's in in healthy shape, you know. Uh, no. Uh he in fact playing one on one with Dennis Rodman that we don't know about and is like slumming down. He's one of the few leaders you still see like smoking in public at events. Right, exactly. Um I wanna end on one uh positive note here, 'cause we've had a dark thing. And and it we're gonna pour one out for Rick Grinnell. Um Twitter Troll, um you know, f previously Massator Germany in the first term term, acting director of national intelligence, uh supporter of the big lie after uh the uh twenty twenty election. Um Uh called, quote, one of the most nasty, dishonest people I've ever encountered, uh, by friend of the pod, Susan Rice, um, who got to know him uh uh in the UN context. Look, I I I I don't want to go through Grinell's bio here, but it there have been a number of stories recently that say that he's clearly fallen out of circles. He overplayed his hand. He offended Susie Wiles, uh the White House chief of staff. Um, you know, she seems to hate his guts. Uh one embarrassing example that came out recently, I think was in the Daily Mail. Grinnell thought he arranged for the Serbian president to meet Trump in Florida, but Susie Wiles blocked the meeting, which left Grinnell looking like an idiot. Um he can't even seem to do his corruption right. He was working on that. Half billion dollar real estate deal in Serbia with Jared Kushner. That's now been called off. Kushner's pulled out of it. So it's not going well for Rick other than the Trump Kennedy Center, uh Renovation here. Amen. My question to you, did you ever cross paths with Grinnell? And and are you feeling sorry for it? Not personally. Um but we've exchanged messages on I think he he attacked me on uh on Twitter uh back in the day, as you would expect. When it was related to Gaza and Israel coverage, of course. Um look, Rick Rennell is a joke. of an official on every level. I know people who have had to deal with him. I have never heard anyone in the spaces that I have interacted with at the United Nations in global diplomacy who have had to say any nice things about Rick Grinnell. Um he is a laughing stock and he's to some extent This is kind of like a perfect end to his career with the Trump administration. This was a man who was kind of like trying to boast about potentially being a vice presidential candidate, uh, and then was parked at the Kennedy Center. And then the Kennedy Center, uh wasn't selling tickets, nobody wanted to attend anything, big acts were canceling, and Rick Reno was just like sitting there in the Kennedy Center all by himself, so much so that they were like, You know what, let's just renovate the Kennedy Center to make it look The Kennedy Center is closed for renovations when in reality we all know that the reason why the Kennedy Center is closed is because It was once a source of national pride. And now It is a source of humiliation when people look at it and be like We can't believe that this institution of the performing arts that beared the name of one of America's uh great presidents, or certainly one of its most progressive presidents, has to now share that with the Trump family. And Rick Grinnell The most despised person. within this administration, even according to uh Suzy Wiles, who in that article uh says, you know I mean you know, I we don't hate each other, but you know, we don't necessarily get along more or less. Uh and Rick Rennell has now been basically reduced to a Construction. Project manager. He's general he's the general contractor oversee the renovations at the Kennedy Center. Nobody wants to deal with him. Well, you know, he is a deep, uh, longstanding patron of the arts. Uh so maybe, you know, he he'll uh carry out his passions there. But it it it's not always nice to see that there is you know, accountability that circles back to some of these people. Look, Amen, I want to thank you so much uh for you know walking through all this, um, for co hosting today. Again, people can watch you on MS where you host the weekend prime time, um, which airs Saturdays and Sundays at six Eastern. Um, also maybe you know, some of the the content from Crooked will make its way on M S now. Absolutely. Is there any anything else you're up to that anywhere else people can follow you um that we should be looking for? Listen, I'm very active on social media. So on Instagram, Amen M, uh I post a lot of stuff. I do a lot of commentary there. We have a lot of clips of the show. Uh I write for a digital uh column. I have a op ed um that I write for M S Now. So you can uh read monthly columns there, um, and everywhere else, you know, try to be as uh everywhere as possible these days. No show up everywhere. Well look, thank you for showing up here. Um we really appreciate it. And uh we will see you all next week. Uh Tom and we'll be back. Thanks very much. Absolutely. Thanks, Ben. See ya. Hot Save the World is a crooked media production. Our senior producer is Alona Minkowski. Our producer is Michael Goldsmith. Our associate producer is Anisha Bonnerjee. We get production support from Saul Rubin. Our executive producers are me, Tommy Vitor. Ben Rhodes. The show is engineered, mixed, and edited by Jordan Cantor. Audio support by Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Thank you to our digital team, Ben Hefcoat, Mia Kelman, William Jones, David Tolls, and Ryan Young. Matt DeGroot is our head of production. Adrian Hill is our senior vice president of views and politics. If you want to listen to Pod Save the World ad-free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to Crooked.com slash friends to subscribe. Supercast, Substack, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to follow us at Crooked Media on Instagram, TikTok, and Twitter for more original content, host takeovers, and other community events. 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