Literary recommendations and closing remarks

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Shop Wayfare's Fth of July clelearance now through july six at wayfare dot com d Pay fair, every style, every home. The Chancellor of the Exchquer. Getting a lesson from the Shadow Chancellor on how to balance the books is like getting a lesson from Dracula and how to look after a blood bank. E B. A steady as she goes budget. What kind of ship does he think he's on the Titanic? Mry Celeste. Welcome to EMQs from Political Currency withith Ed Balls and George Osborne So hello and welcome to EMQ's E Ministers Questions. Now on our main podcast and George kind of went on about being at the White House W and I felt asough hellld valid didn't quite compete in terms of fancy environons. That's the hillock in the lake district that' it's not about to scale or have am mount of government I was at a film premier last night I was in just above Piccadilly in a hotel. It's a new film It's the directorial debut of Kristen Scott Thomas off forward weddings and a funeral and slow horses Vain And she has not only directed in it and starred in it But u co written with her husband who we both know really well, John Nicholleswaite who runs Bloomberg, they wrote it together It's called My mother's wedding Stars, listen to this. Sarlet Jhansson, Sienna Miller and Emily Beecham and is actually based upon Krist's own life story. Her father and her stepfather both died in service in the forces when she was a small child and This is obviously been kind of hugely shaping experience for all of her life and she's now written a film based upon that experience. It's actually and she plays the mother who's getting remarried later in life and her three twenty thirty something daughters All right, the wedding but also playing out the kind of tensions and consequences. of then deaths of those two fathers all those years ago. and one of them The Scarley Hanssen figure. is in the film the first ever woman commander Oven British naval aircraft carrier and it is filmed Oh Prince of Wales in Portswouth Harbour. And the film ends with her and with all of the The sailors with their hats and smart uniforms and it's the actual crew of then Prince of Wales aircraft carrier who play themselves in the film. It's actually really good And I was there That sounds great. We will definitely watch it. I remember, I mean, I know them both and they were telling me all about this movie and getting it made, which was was a big ordeal actually, because I think they ran into the kind of writer' stripe in Hollywood when they were trying to do it And everything was put on pause. But I remember John telling me a story about taking Scarlet Jansen So the a Rutland game fair So for people who've never been to a game in the countryside they have these country fairs, game fairs, country fair sometimes called country fairs, sometimes called game fairs. A game fair would like reference the old like shooting and hunting and stuff. But They're real kind of ey up nes of the sort of British country. They're not at all posh. Like they are the opposite of Push John has a house up in Rutland. I think he grew up there. and He took Kristen and Scarlet these two mega film stars around the game fair and watched all the ferret racing and You know, you can go and get the kind of camouflage outfits at the country stores and they have the Fox hounds come into the central arena and there's pony track racing and all this kind of stuff No one of course in Rutland knew who these these glamorous leges were as they will run the game for. Anyway, I just have this sight in if anyone who's ever been to one of these country fairs, just imagine Scy Hansson countountry fan and it's quite quite a contrast In cinemas from Friday, My mother's wedding, it's emotional and powerful and veryery, very kind of intimate and personal for Kristen and If you are a kitchen cabinet subscriber, this is exactly the kind of cultural recommendation you get in our weekly newsletter, which I can now not do next week because I've done it O EMQ's butittom. Little taster. Sh we go over with it? Yeah, we' got a great first question, haven't we? We got a question from Scott. Hi, Een George So a question for you. Back in two thousand five, I found myself as a junior member of the David Davis leadeadership campaign. And during that campaign I remember being in a team meeting where Andrew Mitchell, who was leading that campaign at the early stage into the room late. Having encountered a young George Osborne on his way to the meeting and he reported that George Osborne, who of course was running David Cameron's campaign at that point, had indicated or had given the impression to Andrew that he was A some point, potentially willing to fold in. DD campaign So my question to you, George is two foold. First of all, is that true? and do you remember it And the second question is, what advice would you give to new backbench labour MPs who will currently be getting calls from Andy Burnham's people, West Streetings's people, maybe even Angela Rayner's people. I'd be very interested in your thoughts. So Is this true? Were you really wavering and thinking of joining the David Davis campaign, telling Andrew Mitchell, you might switch over, I would have thought You and David Cameron were all in this together from the very beginning. I mean Was he a bit naive to think you might be going jump ship So Tilly, I think one of the problems with the David Davis campaign was that they miscounted their support. I seem to remember as person helping to run the rival campaign. And that would definitely be the case here because I was not about to leave David in the lurch and join Andrew Mitchell. But I'll tell you two things about it It's good to hear from Scott. I hope you're doing well, Scott, who I know. The first thing was in the middle of this campaign And Degy Davis was the huge front run You know, everybody had it sewn up and he had like, large number of the MPs and David Cameron's Original MP support myself included was six people. In fact The David Davis campaign probably Andrew Mitchell himself went around saying they could all fit in in a black taxi. That was the they could all fit in the back of a cab But in the middle of it, Andrew invited me and a couple of the other members of the Six to dinner at his and to spend the night at his house in Nottingham Show's constituency House in Nottinghamsow So he's now an MP in Sutton Colefield in Birmingham, but he was back then and had been an MP in Nottinghire, a lovely house in Nottinghire. We went to then. I remember David Cameron saying after David had won, you know, years later I was really worried when a N Lot all went off for dinner and to stay the night with Andrew Mitchell. So I think in David's mind, he was always not sure this fraternising with the enemy is something Rovolv, although we were just trying to be like, you know Big about it and gentlemenly about it. say weve got to, you know, work together after this contest is over And then the second thing is, you know, the odds were very much against Cameron winnings toget He was like twenty five to one in the Times newspaper famously also famously in my head anyway So you were diversifying were you were you I'm sure I I would have said like you Well, you know, we have a conversation if this doesn't work out. Were you running two horses here, then really? I was not running two horses, but Maybe I was thinking what happened if our horse didn't make it But I would never have ditched David and I had one hundred percent confidence. as did David. David never for a second doubted he was going to win that contest Anyway, we did and the rest is history as u someone once said in a podcast But Scott, so that's the truth Now I wasn't about to ditch David, but I did stay friendly with Andrew Mitchell and of course Andrew Mitchell became a core part of the Cameron team and ended up being the chief whip. although that came to a sticky end and not through any fault of Andrews U as we found out So what's a We have some obligation to answer Scott's question though, which is what advice would he give to backbenched Labour MPs getting calls. I the advice I thought was first actually I've got advice for. You've actually been a candidate I've never done a count. I've any ever run leadership campus. I've never actually been the front guy. I think look, the work you have to do as a candidate before the leadership contest has really got underway you know to get your supporters and get the nominations. I mean, politics, you're normally part of a team. And suddenly you're on your own. So it's tough U but you have to do it and you have to do it yourself I think so I've got two piece of advice for the backbench MPs Until there's a contest, wait and let them come to you Don't start signing up too early because you don't know if that candidate iss going to be in let alone whether they're going to be ahead And if you are one of the candidates yourself, you have to do the calls yourself. you have to go out there and speak to all those backbench MPs. You can't do it through proxies, you can't do it by devolving it. You know, back in twenty A ten I've said this before about West Streeting being worried about the David Milliband issue of not challenging in two thousand eight and two thousand nine. But then when we got to twenty ten, Edill Land like me, I think like Andy. out we're out talking to all about bench MPs persuading them David handed that over to proxies He had people doing on his behalf And it was such a mistake T I had like, u thir thousand forty MPs nominated me. They split two to one for Ed Milliband, Ress's David if two of them voted for David rather than Ed, that would have been enough to win David Milliban the leadhip election Ed Milliband spoke to all of my supporters to say Ed's great. I know you put him first. Will you put me second? David didn't speak to them. He didn't actually go out and make the argument. He left it to others. and there were all these people over there, if they'd had the call, they would have switched So if you are a leadership candidate, you cannot hand over. the hard work to people who are your representatives without seeming aloof and distant and not properly engaged and Don't make the David Milliban mistake. And it's hard work. there are hundreds of laborPs. That's like a lot of conversations you' got to have. I think but the advice to an MP, I mean, I've voted in quite a few leadership campaigns as an MP. I would say the best well, you've got to make one fundamental decision, which is are you going to be early money? Are you going to go in early and back someone like I did with David? because if you are a core part of the team And that and your candidate wins, then you are propelled to the very top of politics, right you know of your party And I think if you've got a close friend You should do that. That's, you know the thing to do But if you're not going to take that risk, the central piece of advice Ill give you is Be a kind of plane dealer mess people around because you get a terrible reputation if you're an unreliable MP in a leadership contest. Just say who you're support you know, say I'm sping Ed Balls. You know what Ed Milliband David Milliband I'll consider you next They respect that. what they don't respect You know, there was there was I mean, I'm going to keep these names anonymous Maybe I'll depend how I feel over the next few months. I might reveal who some of them are. But you know there was one Tory MP who was known as Mr. Five votes because he pledged his support to five different candidates terrible for all of them, including the person he ultimately voted for because They thought you were totally unreliable and urustworthy There was another person I had round for dinner with David Cameron, it was TorianP. and you know, he came aroundound to be persuaded by David. It was a huge investment of David's time because he was having dinner with him. And at the end of the dinner, he said, Aually no, thank you, David. but I'm going to sp someone else in the David Davis contest. And David Cameron is like, what a total waste of my time You fucker. And that guy never got years later in reshuffles like ten years later, Dav was we're not promoting that guy And so that's another thing, which is don't waste the candidate's time Are you saying that David Cameron be a grudge? David Cameron remembered exactly who had voted for him. He didn't mind people who hand voteed R him all and some of them became very prominent in his government But he minded people who dict him around And finally there was a friend of his But you know, a friend who well person have been pretty friendly with him over in his twenties who wrote a newspaper article saying Although David Cameron's a friend of mine, I don't think he' right for the leadership right now. And Cameron never forgave me. whichich is my point. If you've got a friend, in many ways, that's the easiest option At least in the first round of a leadership contest, you can just say, look everyone knows, I'm a friend of You know, I'm going to split him So just be a plane dealer. That would be my main piece of advice There's one I remember. this isn't about benchure. This was a senior cabinet member who I'm not going to name senior cabinet member in both the Tony Blair and the Gordon Brown Cabinets This person was kind of more on the Tony Blair side of things came for the twenty ten. leadership nominations. and you Some people are only nominated one. Some people nominated too, you know Andy Burnham, Ed Balls or David Millaband, Ed Balls or E David Milliban Ed Milliban This person nominated five They didn't have to do And the nominations went a David Milliban first Andy Bird of second, Edward Lvand third Diane Abbott Fourth and me Fifth I couldn't believe it I do it What? you bast? I've been talking about bearing a grudge Dear me, anyway, nameless. Let's move on. Our next question is from Madison. This is Madison, the Textxon who asked y'all about American primaries and your own selections, and I loved your responses I wanted to ask this about the Makerfield by election What is the question that the voters there are being asked to answer Is it who should be their MP or who should be your prime mininister Or perhaps, it's which labor politician should be your prime minister, which sounds like a primary Or is it, do you even want labor to stay in power Also Do you two agree with me that this specific by election is as close to a presidential election as the UK has ever had So although that wasn't Madison's voice, that was a Texan's voice. We found a Texan provide the voice And it's actually kind of really time timely G great to have Madison There hass been a big Texan story this week because you've had the huge upset. the Texas A attttorney General, Ken Paxton hugely controversial, scandal driven A MAGA figure back by Donald Trump has unseated is defeated in the Republican primary The Senator John Corny It's one of those those moments where The MAGA Republicans love it. and the Democrats are ecstatic because they think suddenly there's a real target it makes them this Texas Senate seat, you know, you know, contestable in the midterms. And even if Paxton can win it Republicans will now have to throw loads of money at the seat to make sure that they Don't lose it. and Painfully all the Republican senior leadership in the last few days, including Ted Cruz, who was neutral throughout the the whole campaign have now rel's the other senator, right? Yeah. The other senator have been coming forward to say that they will support the Republican candidate and that they will kind of back the fundraising because they know If not, there's a danger that they'd lose Texas too. So what that tells you in a selection, you've always got to make sure that the candidate you're choosing is not only the one who will make the party feel good, but also the one who can actually win in the country and I guess, Madison, that is one of the ways in which end by election parallel to the U. S because unusually people who are choosing him as the candidate for labour, but then voting in this by election are not only voting for Andy Berdham as the MP for Makerfield, but they're also asking the question Is he the right person to be the Prime minister? and the Labour Party will be thinking well is he the person who can actually win general election in two years time. So that is one parallel. Yes. talk about Texas Senate races still forever. There's some great stories about the ones that Lyndon Johnson The makeakefield byection getet a little bit more for a second. place to home It' unique, isn't it? I mean, in British history, I don't think there has ever been a situation like this. which is why politics is enditely fascinating We've never had a situation where someone is esssentially contesting to be the prime minister within months Possibly weeks come on to I'll explain why it might be only a few weeks. He could easily be the Prime Minister by July And he is Andy Burnham is standing in the by election to become the Prime Mister. and Although, you know there have been lots of famous by elections in the past and famous candidates in byo elections in the past We've never had this situation where someone is explicitly coming in to immediately challenge inside his own party. for the preremiership and looks very likely to win it. and a reason why I mean, presumly Boris Johnson is the closest parallel, is that right? Well, Boris Johnson came he was he came back as an MP in a general election in twenty fifteen and when he was still the mayor of London and still had a year to go And then we had a debate insside the kind of camera leadership, do we allow him to stand This was the debate Starmer had this year. which was do we allow Andy Bernam to stand inside the Late party rules actually, I think prohibited it, although they've obviously ditch those rules now to allow him to stand Boris was coming in in the general election, although there was little doubt he would come not to immediately challenge Cameron because Cameron won that general election and it looked like he was going to stay for several years, although had made the mistake in the campaign of saying he wouldn't fight another election after that In this case, though, if he loses, all bets are off and maybe there's a route in which Starmer possibly survives But if Burnham wins, I think he arrives, he proves that he can win where Labour hasn't been able to win both in Makerfield in the local elections and in Manchester by elections. And I think it's quite possible where streeting says I don't have the numbers. It's quite possible that Angela Rna says, I don't have the numbers. No one else has the numbers Burnham does And maybe he gets like a couple of hundred labour MPs to nominate him And Starmer resigns and he's Prime Minister almost immediately. So that is quite possible And I think that is a unique situation. And so to answer Madison's question, I think, peopleople who Make Pil are deciding whether they want Andy Burnham to be the prrime Minister And more than do they just want him to be be from Makerfield or indeed do they want someone out if they don't want Labour prim they don't want Burnham to be the prime minis I guess, you know, if you wanted Starmer to be the prrime Minister, I can't imagine there aren' that many people in Makefield to make that distinction. then you would probably also vote against Burnham, although I think you argue Starmer can't survive if he loses this by election either because he's lost you know lost of another by election. But The simple choice and I don't think Andy Burnham is ending it otherwise in his campaign videos is You know, I'm asking you to vote for me here to be your MP. but also be someone who's going to change the lab body and change the country. You are totally right that it is very consequential And the question is complicated because it's not simply who do youught to be the MP for Makerfield. It's also Do you want Anty Buren to be Prime Minister? Do you want Labour to be in power You could vote against Berham because you think that's the way to stop labour being in power of the next general election, the one sense in which it's not a presidential election. Madison asks is this speacific by election as close to a presidential election as the UK has ever had. The reason it's not like a presidential election is because Nigel Farage isn't running and neither's Kemy Bayennock. So Andy Burnham is running in this election, he's running against the parties he's profiguring generenal election to come But if he wins this and becomes Prime Minister, he's not actually running against The rivals for the job, but that's the one sense in which is not a parallel Of course you know it' pretty similar to how most people vote in most general elections. MPs get on their high horse about being local representatives and so on. But the vast majority it's obviously can't be the case that Most MPs have an above average local support by definition. And so with the exception of some parts of the country whereb People tend to you know, maybe they vote Scottish nationalist or they vote them in parts of the West countountry south, but generally speaking, People when they vote are voting who they want to be the Prime Minister, they want to be the government. You know, if you're a really strong local MP, you might get a little bit of support And certainly if you're a bad MP, you might get a that might work against you. But those things are always overplayed. They' are very, very marginal So in some ways, you know It's what happens in every constituency at a general election, but But anyway, this is pretty pretty unique in the sense that if he wins, he's the prime mininister in my view Thanks Madison for your question, and we'll be back shortly after this break. Shipping, billing, admin, payroll, marketing. You're managing all the things. So why waste time sending important documents the old fashioned way? Mail and ship when you want, how you want with stamps dot comot Print postage on demand twenty four seven and schedule pickups from your office or home. Save up to ninety percent with automated rate shopping. That's why over one million small businesses trust stamps dot com d Go to stamps dot com and use code podcast to try stamps dot com risk free for sixty days. You want to get your backyard summer ready, but you don't want to break the bank? Wayfare gets it. planning on dining alfresco or relaxing poolside Wayfair has everything you need to prep your space. Shop now and save up to seventy percent off during Wayfareair's Fth of July clearance. Score huge deals on outdoor furniture, area rugs, and more. We're talking thousands of products for every style and budget. Plus, sururprise Flash Deals July sixth. Don't wait. Shop Wayfare's Fth of July clearance now through july six at wayfare dot com d Pay fair, every style, every home Welcome back. Here's a question from Judy Hello George Hello Ed I'm wondering if you could clarify something that's been quietly simmering driving me mad This Nigel Farage is five million, What was it now? gift A donation? I think maybe it was a bonus at one stage, or maybe it's even a future deposit Who knows? But my question is, surely there would be some tax due I mean, maybe that's why they're been vague on the classification of it Has he paid any tax? As anybody checked. What is the situation? I haven't heard it said, I haven't read anything about it And given the scrutiny that other individuals have found themselves under for far lesser amounts I'd really like to understand the situation Anway hope you can help Loving your work, gentlemen Now, I'm not kind of an expert on this at all But as I understand it, this is the view of the tax expert Dan Needle that there isn't a tax liability here to Nigel Farageess gift. It's a gift. It's a gift. unless it was a payment for services So of course the question ort of arises what W Nigel Farrage giving in return, but if nothing U and you know I presume that there's no inheritance tax liability either becausecause this is a non British taxpayer making the contribution. Yes, it's only an issue. It's an inheritance tax issue for the person who makes the gift. but not for Nigel Farge. By the way, people should get their tax advice for and relying on us. But if you die And you've made gifts to your children in recent years then they are included within the inheritance tax Net That's to prevent people avoiding inheritance tax by essentially gifting everything away in the last couple of years before they die, which is why people do things like they give away their home many years many decades before there was So in this case, yes, the only tax liability falls on the person who gave the five million pounds and I think he lives in Thailand, doesn't he? so I don't know what the t inheritance sext laws are But of course, this is being investigated by the Cons now, but the investigation isn't about tax, it's about The fact that this appears to be a political donation in an election year which wasn't declared and u The challenge for Nigel Farage is was the purpose of this donation Where did the money come from? whereere did it go? How was it used? That will be looked at because it's I guess because it happened so close to general election And the challenge I think for Nigel Farge here is, you know presume at the time He. received the money He didn't know He was even going to be a general election candidate let alone that he was going to then be the leader of the party ahead in the opinion polls and people would say, is he going to be the next prrime minister? And then suddenly there'd be all this scrutiny and you know it feels as though Nigel Farage has kind of gone to ground because he's not sure what his answers to all these questions are, but he's going to answer them I guess there is some risk here, Verage. There's two risks. There's the actual procedural risk. So I don't think there's any tax issue, but I think As you say, you, he appears on the surface anyway to have be in breach of parliamentary disclosure rules, which is you're supposed to disclose significant gifts and donations to you before you get elected in the year before you get elected in your register And if you're in breach of those rules, there's a commons committee that rules on that. Well there's a standards commommissioner and then there's Committee of privileges and you can be suspended from the House of Commons. This is what happened to Boris Johnson. Remember he was to be suspended for lying and then he resigned his seat to avoid that In case of Farage You know he doesn't have any it's not like In these cases, you know, usually they've got like government whips and opposition whips trying to help you. He doesn't have the numbers at all now, Scotland So both the Conservatives and the Labour Body were happy to see the back of him. And I think there are rules whereby if you're suspended for a certain period of time, it does open up the prospect of a local recall petition whichich is if people can assemble enough names locally, they can trigger a by election which is what Boris Johnson was trying to avoid. He was going to face a by election locally and say you resigned. So that is a kind of a prospect for Farage, but I think you might feel, well I can win collecting again in a by election anyway. although it would throw a huge spotlight on this five million poundonation. And I guess the kind of bigger question behind the question from Julie is like why are these rul why do the rules not apply to Farage? I mean, in the sense, actual rules, but the sort political rules. You'd think a kind of five million pound donation personal finances from some offshore crypto king you know, would bring down politician But they haven't in this case. And I think it's partly that Faragege is someone who kind of a bit like Boris Johson sort of claims, well, I don't play by the rules anyway. You can't hold me accountable to them As I've said before, this man, as it happens, did give money to Boris Johnson as well, gave million pounds to him personally. to his quotes office. And so it's quite hard for the Cervatives to lay into him And the lab party has been completely distracted with their own leadership problems. So Farage has kind of escaped the scrutiny for now my g F enough for now But it's defitely it's one of those sort of loose thread in British politics, and it's good we've had a question on it It's one of those things that you may well still unravel and one consequential b election to potentially An Sentcial one Thank you very much indeed This next question is from Thomas and come in the back of What you were saying about Josh Simon's resignation as the MP for Makerfield George and his elevation Hi, George Janedte. Thomas here, gold subscriber and big fan of the podcast. You mentioned on a recent episode that the only way for an MP to resign is to be appointed by the Chancellor to a paid office of the Crown But they ask a complete hypothetical Would anything legally prevent a Chancellor from appointing an MP to one of those offices to remove them without there having requested it. In effect sucking an MP Can the appointment be undone Thanks Yeah, this is a really interesting question from Thomas and one I wrestled with as Chancellor. and I don't think anyone would know outside, including people We're very experienced in politics, that this is the case. It's something that I think at the time was unique So to resign as an MP in Britain, we have a rather archaic procedure, which is you you get appointed to an office of profit under the crown Now it's never been clear me why being, I don't know, Chance the ex cheeck is not an office or profit underground you get paid S some reason the rules don't apply to ministerial appointments. but you can't be an MP and you can't hold a crown office. And the two crown offices which are held open are the Chilton hundredundreds most famously and the Manor of Northsteed. These are sort of medieval offices. they don't come with anything and they come with a kind of u I think it's sort of cursory payment But the way for an MP to resign applies to that office. you write a letter to the chancellor exchquer And the Chancell Exch says, Yes, I'm appointing you to the Chilton hundredundreds or the Manor Northstead and then you are automatically esssentially invalidated as an MP and that in effect is your resignation That's how it works And I sign quite a lot of these letters because for all sorts of reasons, scandals or people get better jobs or whatever anyway, they leave and and trigger by elections But I had the very specific case of Jerry Adams and Martin McGinness were both MPs. Now they weren't MPs who took their seats in Parliament because they wouldn't swear an oath to the crown But they both wanted to resign as MPs. And they refused. I had no direct communication with them. It was made clear to me that they would never write a letter to a British Chancellor. saying, I wish to be They're in charge of the Chilton hundredundreds or the Mor in Norstead And so I was just sort of left with this situation. Well what do I do And I got some legal advice from the Treasury Council. I said, Well you can just appoint them without them requesting it. I said but sure then I could haveoint, I think I literally said, Surely I could just appoint Ed Balls to the childildren hundreds and Sundy's lost his constituency or Ed Millibant, you know, my political painments at the time, You weren't more worried about us than I realized Well That well You less so. I mean, that milliban, he was pretty effective No it was bizarre. And and I asked the question, the lawyer said, Yes, you could, Charlla How's that? Okay. And I did worry that there would be a legal challenge and you know, I had to act, you know, I was acting in an official capacity here, obviously. and Anyway, so I took this I said, look, clearly Jerry Adams had written me a letter saying I want to resign orr he'd written not to me, but he'd just sent a letter. So he hadn't kind of formally asked, but he had we did have this letter And u I said, Well, this is the means of resignation. so I'm going to appoint him And I did But it did emerge in the course of those discussions that I could have fired any MP I liked Maybe I should have fred Boris Johnson onber perfection rather than Ed Balls. That would have been a more sensible moveood.though I think all this occurred before he got back into Parliament. even Michael Gove Oh we love Michael. was He was never going to challenge me Yeah Yeahah, but comes back to that question of David Davis' would have been one of my original sex who knows. But then Cameron's big mistake with Gove was to underestimate his own political ambitions. So we probably need more legal advice. The only thing which that I wondered thinking about this question is If you were Um I don't know Cul Turner and kissed armour through Rachel Reees, haveave you rem moved as an MP or as you said, you and Boss Johnson. Just explain why Karl Turner because he's a labour MP. for Lincoln,n't he? And That's right, who was leading the rebellion against David Lambey reforms to jury trials and generally being very kind of outspoken and a bit of a th in the side of Kiss Armor's goovernment. If you were to as the Chancellor just decide to remove them presumably there would be some way in which they could then appeal to within the House of Commons And in the case of Jerry Adams, he wouldn't be able to appeal because he wasn't a sitting MP. So therefore, you he wouldn't be willing to go to an appeals process in any case, unless he's taken his seat could he go, But if you were Carl Turner presumably there would be some kind of natural justice. because the moment you sign the letter as Chancellor, they're appointed and at that moment they cease to be an MP. They no peel against it. Well I think in practice they o to court and maybe the courts would say this is horrible. so they would judicially review it. Yeah, but would parliament accept the court's jurisdiction as opposed to this is about there being an MP? Yeah, I know, but then you'd have to change the law that says you can't be an MP and offffice of prorofit al, which you could do, but itll be after the moment when the person that ceased to be an MP. We need legal advice on this one because I would love to know what the answer to that is whether you could appeal or whether you JR or what would happen You learn something every day. Now talking about learning and wider powers Our next question is also provoked by George said, on our last EMQs and it comes from Edward Hello Ed and George. It's Ed here from Tyemouth This is my second question for EMQs. You currely read one about football and politics a couple of years ago from me. but this one is about last week's EMQs where you were talking about longevity of life, assisted dying. But you were also talking about George wanting to go on a pilgrimage. You did request more religious questions as well. So I thought I'd combine all those things into one. George, you mentioned that we'd been super successful in raising life expectancy over the last hundred years. but we seem to reach this sort of barrier of one hundred and twenty years that we don't get past Is this something like the speed of light that's built into the universe that we can never reach, never surpass, never go past Well, as a religious person myself, I'm a Christian And in the book of Genesis, right at the start of Genesis six, verse three, then the Lord said, My spirit will not contend with humans forever for they are mortals. Days will be hundred and twenty years So I just found it super interesting when I heard George himself say, this seems to be this barrier of one hundred and twenty years. That verse popped up in my head and given you ask for religious questions, I just thought I had to share that with you. They have to say This time, we don't need advice from lawyers. I think probably from Maybe the Archbishop of Canterbury here I mean, my reading of the scriptures was always that that you shouldn't takeis b It's always a bad turn when the political podcast goes my reading of the sccriptures. My reading of the Sriptures is that you probably shouldn't take Genesis too literally U and you it's all interpretation and to be seen in a sort of parable style way and therefore one hundred and twenty years may not be literally one hundred and twenty years, but you know that was at the time Genesis was written, seen as a very, very old age. but On the other hand, you know, Edward says, this tells you that God wrote it into the first book of the Old Testament and Things have never changed since Yes, well, I'm not sure whether we should talk log about this one because I'm not sure where where this goes really. Yes, quite a fellow podcaster, I don't really do God. but I had one thought though,oke, George, which brings it back to your profession here If you think about AI If AI was to either withiz Cers for the most intractable illnesses or to find a way to enable humans to buck the aging process. be the biggest challenge to God that we've ever seen But he would have anticipated or he or she would have anticipated because theyre omniscient. Well, but But maybe I mean, the question is whether They're there If AI bucks the scripture . Where does that leave us Maybe we need a third book of the Bible Yeah for thir I think test it, I should say. I'm currently going on delaud Could you rry Please did to chat GPT. Please could you write the third book Bible On the following assumptions, theseese waters are too deep. life, of course, does imitate becausecause what of my favorite stories last few weeks was the U.S. Defense Secretary, Pete Hegsth who quoted the Bible But what he didn't realize was he wasn't quoting the Bible. He was actually quoting the verse ion that Samuel L. Jackson reads, you remember when he's dressed in black with those a black t. he Standing with a gun over someone who's about to shoot a drug dealer And he says, you know, he claims this from Ezekiel twenty five seventeen And blessed is he who in the name of Camaradri and Juti shhepherd the los through the valley of Darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the Finder of lost Children It's not It's not from the Bible. It's from Quentin Tarantino. And the U S. Defense Secretary quoted it as if it was from the Bible And u So that's why I'm steering I'm steering clear of Genesis and indeed all the subsequent books. Edward he sent us the question. He actually says he's quoting Genesis six verse three So then the Lord said, My spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal. theirir days will be one hundred and twenty years. I think we're just going to have to just go and check that was actually written and in Genesis, not by Edward Quentin Tarantino. Now which Bible are you going to use? Which Bible are you going to use? Can I recommend one Gideon's Bible I mean, there are no limits to your ego. Thanks for your question, Edward. We'll be back after this break with one more question M Still waiting in line? Again. That's time you'll never get back. Save time and money with stamps dot comot Over four million businesses have skipped the line with stamps dot comot Join them to save up to ninety percent off carrier rates from your computer or phone right now. 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Shop Wayfare's Fourth of July clearance now through july sixth at wayfare dot com d Pay fair, every style, every home So Our final question is from Ceb and it's been voiced by one of our producers Hi and George You indicated that you'd welcome cultural recommendations some months ago You praisise the French series Laine in Village Francais. I'd have not watched it without that recommendation, and it was a fantastic series full of humanity and frailty and evil and often buddled up in the same characters, which hold do my understanding of France place in the Second World War So thank you for that A novel I cannot recommend highly enough and which is certain parallels with Meline in the sense that it also got under the skin of relationships and motivations, political and social is V a sillily Girlsman's Life and fate about the life and work of a family Soviet physicist Victor Strum during the World War II perhaps youve re it I think anyone who was blown away by Leline will relish reading life and faith Now I have to say I've not read this novel by Vasily Gracman, Life and Fate, although I loved the line which is still available, I think, on ITVX. and So if Seb, you think that line lovers should go and read life and fate about the family of Soviet physicist Victoria Schrum Trum and his life World War I, then I'm going to take you up on this recommendation. The line in case you don't know what we're talking about I recommended this. It's a story. of a village in occupied France from the beginning of the German occupation all the way through to liberation And Sb is right that that tension between humanity and frailty and evil What happens within individual characters as well as between characters is utterly brilliant piece of drama And I had the same reactionist said, you learn so much about the war and France and the human conditition. So This is the kind of thing we discuss in this podcast and which we recommend in our kitchen cabinet.