Listener Chatter and Closing Remarks

All right, here we go Hello and welcome to the Slate Political Gab Fest june fourth, twenty twenty sixth, Man Child Graham Platner Edition. I'm David Plaodz of City Cast in Washington DC just one month out from the CiQinccentennial I cannot wait. I really am so excited. Are you? Are you one of pers? I am performing. I agree I stepped in when Millie Vanilli stepped out. Li Vanazi. I mean, it'sing because it's all ninety Zacks so you're kind of I'm definitely They got old slate, oldld sllate will be performing. That is Emily Bazlon of the New York Times Magine and Yale University Law School from New Haven. Hello, Emily. Hello, hello. And then a man who I imagine is not missing CBS News, his old employer this week John Dickerson. Hello, John. Hi, how you doing Do you think did you ever consider writing a kind of incendiary letter on your way out It's not really your style, Ala Scott Pelly. Well, different circumstances. So u Uh Of course everyone considers such things. Everyone writes letters in their head. Right. Right. Yeah. No, his circumstances were more more acute than mine. So I will not engage with the premise of the question This week on the Gabfest, Nazi tattoo wearing rape excusing. now sexting will Graham Platner of Maine shake off yet another scandal and still go on to win main Senate seat held by Susan Collins. then Let's watch President Trump ruin America's two hundred fiftieth birthday. and also the Kendy Center Let's discuss that Don't you forget Don't you forget the lawn of the White House. Oh my God. looks like the Borg has come and begun the takeover. My girlfriend got pictures from a She was in a reception that looked over that yesterday and she sent pictures and she was like, it's enormous. colossal this this venue for the the UFC fight they're doing on the back lawn then is the World Cup good or bad for the world? pllus we will have Gram Platner The main oystermman, as he likes to call himself is attempting to drive his campaign past another dumpster fire of his own, making previously having been dinged for his Nazi esque tattoo and for his shit posting remarks about people and immigrants and women He is now has now been accused of carrying on sexing relationships with numerous women in the early days of his marriage The early days of marriage being like just a couple of years ago This story appears to have been put out in the world by former campaign aid of Platinner, That's my read of it. mayaybe not That that's certainly the accusation of platter's wise. She confirmed Jenny V. McDonald is the campaign former staffer. She confirmed the details. So But did she put them out there, right? Is that's a That's a distinction I don't So so I mean John Where does Platner stand? So right now, the Janet Mills, who is the governor of Maine, he was running against in the Democratic primary, which is coming up right quick. has essentially suspended her campaign has dropped out She hasn't dropped up. She has suspeed her campaign. And so Platinner is the presumptive favorite to be up against Collins But there is this feeling that like every day there's another thing with this guy And one way to interpret it is he's a relatable human with lots of flaws, working hard to serve his country and these flaws are irrelevant next to his forceful opposition to platocracy and Trumpism and a rigged economy. Another is This is a guy who dismisses every single thing he has ever done as a useful mistake even if it happened a few weeks ago and he's just skating way to higher office and he has a disaster waiting to happen for the Democratic Party. Soes, where do we stand Well, it's a good question. and you've outlined some of the different categories, which I think are worth keeping separate because there's the question of taking all of the things alleged as true doeses that affect the way he carries out his office, which I think is important and a discussion we should have. But then there's the political question. And that political question seems to me splits into two things. One is Do people care about the individual Pcadillos. And so far, both the polling and behavior suggests Main Democratic voters do not care That's about the specifics. And then we should also talk about whether women will be particularly offended by some of these things. becausecause I was we certainly saw with Donald Trump and the analogies here, you need to be careful, but I remember When the Access Hollywoods tape came out, I was doing a focus group for Face the Nation and I asked Members of the focus group. if you had a flat tire on the side of the road and would you rather have Donald Trump stop to help you or Hillary Clinton. and I A woman in probably her thirties said, Ohh, Donald Trump because he obviously likes women This was right after the the Acess Hollywood tape had come out and everybody was saying, oh, this is going to kill him with women voters. Sometimes it breaks in funny ways, so we should talk about that too. But the most important thing is that like the Democratic control of the Senate runs through picking up Maine. And so this is a vital vital race, I should say one other thing is in addition to the individual ways people evaluate these specific claims. There is the feeling, as you said, David, that like There's just a whole Eelda Marco's closet full of shoes out there that are going to keep dropping And so that what might hurt him in the end is not any one individual thing but just the idea that like He's just a mess. and that Susan Collins, who has some durability in the state, even though he's ahead of her in the most recent polls will'll be able to will win in the end if people think that he's just too much of a liability Do you think either I'm now I'm sorry. I'm just obsessed with this changing the tire. I know this is a distraction. But do you think either Trump or Hillary Clinton could change a tire Definitely not. I bet Hillary might be able to do it. I bet she could intuit her way into figuring it out. Trump unless there's really something in it for him I don't think so. It's also a question of physical activity at age eightD. Trump's pretty strong. I think he'd have the muscle power to do it. but just would he have the conceptual understanding of It can be really hard to Jacking the car. whereere do you jack the car up? Yeah. interesteresting. No it's the. What's the word for like when you leverage like unscrewing ye Yeah, leverage leverage over the lug nuts ges. That's the hard part. Yes. And I don't want to obviously lean too hard on that, but all I would the only reason I would told that story that is that sometimes in punditry, people say, oh, this is going to hurt with women voters And then it like turns out maybe it doesn't hurt with women voters. And it appears the things that he said at wrote on on Reddit, you know, which treat women like property, essentially, don't seem to have punctured and gotten through. Obviously though as a candidate, don't you don't want incidents like this to remind thing Platin are right is that he was having a successful redemption narrative. These were things from long ago. And as you started out by saying, this is something from twenty twenty three or so. it's not long ago. And so that's I think a real difference and At the same time, I mean, I think at least my own feeling about this is like consensual sexting with adults, like sure, infidelity is not great. But it's not that this seems like it should disqualify him. It's more this question of what else is possibly out there Um Can I just grab that real quick? That what you just said, Emily is what I was stumbling around, which is like A couple of the pieces that I read about this had various acts of punditry where people were saying, oh, this might really hurt with women voters. Like that this was going to be the straw that broke theam camel's back think it is that, I mean, I thought Jill Fhilipovich on SubSeC, the journalist, had a really good like sort of discussion about this where she wasn't coming to some strong conclusion she was trying to think it through. And I'm now mixed up about what my own thoughts are versus hers because I had a lot of the same feelings You know, the other thing about Platinner is She has come to stand for this like very heated view in the Democratic factional fight The right progressive with the right economic message can triumph and can be the future of the party. And there's like a drinking of the Platin or Kool aid, which is like before he gets anywhere near actually winning this election, people are anointing him as like a presidential hopeful in twenty twenty eight, which I have always been deeply skeptical about that. It's not that I don't care that much about Graham Platner one way or the other, but he has been puffed up with all of these expectations that I think were just unreasonable, like absent. these skeletons in the closet. I am ne of the problems with Trump is that he has spoiled us for understanding what character one hundred percent flaws are disqualifying and what character flaws are not disqualifying because he has all of them He has all the character flaws. So does somebody like, you know Ken Paxson appears to have all the character flaws. And there are nuances and like and and so some people are like, well, if you're, you know, so you excuse Trump, I mean, you wouldn't excuse Trumps, you so why are excusing Platinir? And it's like, well laters's flaws are not the same as Trump's And like Trump just makes it hard to have any kind of rational conversation about when is it disqualifying? And I was trying to think about this and my view is like, The redemption narrative, I think is real. I think that is an ent you are allowed to have that. I think people who genuinely like are young, they are doing stuff. They're going through some hard times, they have hard jobs, they have hard circumstances and that they get they gain a little maturity and they change. I think that is a thing that we arent and I don't know Graham Platner well enough to know whether that's a legit thing with him, but I do think that that is a thing that people can genuinely claim and that stuff that you said in your twenties, stuff that you wrote in your twenties in your teens, I think you're entitled to explain why that happened and how you've changed I think what isn't excusable is cruelty and acts that consistently harm others. And it's unclear to me whether where Platinal stands on that in that cess Um So that's the one that's the that's like I'm trying to when I try to like identify character flaws, I'm like Is there cruelty or deliberate or like certainly neglectful harm to others at a high level? And if that is the case then that is a person I'm willing to disqualify, even if I believe in what they stand for politically. It's why the Trump analogies are so dangerous because sexting, as Emily said, you know, it's a consensual they can deal with that in their marriage Gleefully boasting about sexual assault, which is what Donald Trump was doing in the Acess Hollywood is just comparing those two things together is obviously the far more reprehensible behavior Then the second stage is can you tie this to some kind of behavior? that is more broadly in evidence in their character. And in Donald Trump's case, you could. There are lots of women who've come forth with credible claims about actual sexual assault And then the third thing is your point, David, which is can you make a tie here to what they're supposed to do in their job, which is have at least one of the ways of having character is to have empathy for other people and to at least consider the people who aren't in your sort of circle and certainly not in your party And Donald Trump's, the way he behaves in these moments that are tests of character connects pretty seamlessly with the way he thinks about people and power and cruelty. And so you can draw a line from the behavior to actual aspects of the job And it seems to me cleaner that line, the more it's worth talking about in the in the governing context. It's hard to know that with Platinner though, right? Because he doesn't have any governing experience and he talks compellingly about bringing more people into the circle and having Right Like his message about that seems totally fine. Yeah, no, it's hard to know, but but hard to know is a different category than U than in evidence, which it was with Trump. I mean, in other words, what you heard on that tape was both objectively more morally reprehensible and had more connections to reprehensible behavior. in the record already which is why the two are different. I was also struck that Genevieve McDonald, who was the former campaign political director who left, who confirmed these stories, said The United States Senate is not a training ground for redemption. It's a place for proven leaders with moral clarity and integrity. I like to I'd like to believe that, But if you're a Democrat and you say that, I would like to introduce you to Teddy Kennedy. U and like have a conversation with you about that because He's obviously one of the heroes of the Democratic Party and his moral failings were basically ignored. Saying that kind of thing isn't terribly helpful in this in trying to sort through all those ideas you guys are talking about. I would like Emily you guys to return to that idea of Platner as an avatar of a certain Worldview though, because I think that's really important Yeah, I mean, I think that there have been a lot of expectations put on him because he is supposed to be quote, authentic. He is this oyster man. Um oyster farmer, uh And even though he has this like, you know, relatively privileged background, he's succeeded in presenting in a way that feels like it's more down with the people. And I mean, seems like a good thing generally. I just have been skeptical and kind of don't understand why there has been such outsized attention to him. Like there are other people in the party who are doing other interesting things. and I just feel like he has gotten like ton of attention without that. I mean, it's true that he's drawing these crowds and he was ahead of the polls. So it's not like I don't, it's totally made up. but It has just seemed like it sort of was inflated. Well,'s not made up because he has gone from literally nothing to king out an incumbent governor, a popular governor out of the Senate race, which she expected to waltz to. So it's like clearly It's not just like It's not fake. And I would add popular governor handpicked by the Washington Democrats. So there's that aspect of this story too Do you think Emily, because you're the only non white man on this and you've led a life of no privilege whatsoever, but do you think that This rarap on Fatner, which is sort of a wrap I guess on it's been a wrap against other M Jack Schlossberg in the New York twelve race that we talked about last week is maybe' this same thing, which is like, here's a man who at some point having done nothing in particular in his life has decided like I really deserve to hold one of the highest offices in the landon By God, I'm going to go get it because that's the kind of thing I deserve Tom Styer another example of this arguably I mean, I, yeah, I think feels a little different because he is having now I'm arguing the other sideice on your side like he's having these real connections with these crowds in Maine, right? I mean, it's not like Schlasberg has, I think, fallen dramatically in the polls once people actually paid attention and the just name recognition and connection to the Kendy family Um, onnce there are other factors, it doesn't seem like that's working for him in the same way So I guess I would put them in different categories. What I wonder is if you're a Democrat either specifically defending Platinner or running a race in another state. You're Sarered Brown And you know, some tracker runs up to you with a camera and says, What do you think about Graham Platner's texts How much of a liability is it for you? So We talked about Talorico and some of the things he's been accused of and some of the things he said as being a possible liability for Democrats as they have to talk about various value, culture war issues that they didn't really want to talk about, but You know, they get asked about them in the Taler Rico context and they feel cross pressure between their their moderate voters who only want to hear them talk about the economy and their base voters who care about some of these cultural issues and want to hear them say the right thing. And so they feel pressure even if they're living in Ohio about a Texas race Are they going to feel the same thing about Graham Platner's sexts? And then secondarily, is there no counter argument that you could make, which is to say, if you're a Democrat running, I guess I'm just trying to assess the punditry that says, oh, this could be a problem for other members of the party. couldouldn't you have available to you if you're a Democrat to say, you know what Graham Platner wrote was offensive. It's demeaning to women. I think it's repugnant. You Republican, who's attacking me about this. I've said that about somebody who's in my party who's really important Now you do the same with Donald Trump likeike they would be struck mute. I mean, because no Republican running for office can say anything negative about Donald Trump's character So I don't see why I would be necessarily a huge problem for a you know, somewhat clever politician faced with these questions. Yes. I guess John, you often hit on the theme, which is like there's sort of a limited amount of attention any given campaign. And so the more time that is spent talking about things which are not valuable to you, the less time there is spent talking about things that are valuable to you. so I doubt that Platner disqualifies a lot of voters in Ohio who are like, well, you know Sherared Brown didn't forcefullyndemn Graham Platner, a person I had never heard of three months ago and actually really haven't heard of even now. He didn't forcefully condemn him enough and therefore, my support for Graham Platner is mean my support for Sherared Brown is now diminished. I will not vote for him. I don't think that's how works. I think it's more that Insofar as this is the narrative that the Gabfest is making this our lead topic, not something else. It just takes away from the forward momentum Democrats have. Democrats are going to vote for a piece of old cheese. They don't they they they do need to talk about the things that matter more Yeah. I think I think that's a very good point. I guess my point is that you could flip it relatively quickly and return it to Donald Trump, which who is The most unpopular politician around So it wouldn't be that hard to flip it back to something that does does seem to help Democrats at the moment I mean, one thing to think about is that when Patner, assuming Platinner remains the candidate is succeeds in the primary He's going to be running against Susan Collins, who's really different than Donald Trump Susan Collins' main u think deficit to Liberals and moderates is that she distinguishes herself, differentiates herself from the Republican Party on some fronts, but she did vote to confirm Breck Kavanaugh, who is has changed the balance of the Supreme Court along with other Trump appointees. And it seems like That's why you know, people who are trying to close their eyes and think less about character and more about policy are going to be very reluctant to give up on Platinner, but then also really concerned that these character issues could get in the way of because some Susan Collins Voters need to flip to blue and it didn't seem like that was going to be that hard. But if Platinner is a mess, it could be a lot harder. I wonder if it's his biggest ace in the hole actually is just the economy and the war Like I mean, the war is a mess. and the economy for anybody who is you know, making a middle class living is a nightmare. I mean, if you look at the decline in the savings rates, if you look at the effect of gas prices on people at the lower end of the income scale and how it messes with their day to day choices about what they can do, including going to doctor' visits. If you look at the, you know the wages haven't kept up with inflation. I mean, on and on and on So that's probably the thing. if he just keeps talking about that, that rescues him from this it before we leave topic. let's talk about a totally different topic. Just anything you want to say John Army about the Iowa and California primary elections this week in California Democrats almost certainly hold the governor's office because they will have one of the two candidates in the the general election haveavei your Bisera and the mayor the Democratic mayor of Los Angeles would probably be reelected despite poor showing in the primary in Iowa, they're, you know, they're different permutations. Any that interested you, John Well, money ain't what it used to be. I mean, that Steyr spent two hundred million dollars and couldn't win. that Silicon Valley spent thirty million do trying to make this the mayor of San Jose, the governor and that didn't work. So It was not a, you know, it's not a great time for the the moneyed interest in well, you could argue differently. But anyway, those two things struck me in California. Myike two notes about this. Number one, There's something deeply wrong with California's voting. I just think the way they're counting ballots is Total mess. It creates mistrust Every other state has managed to do it in a different way. It's just Bad And they really need to fix it. Yes, But what are they going to do with all those abacuses Abacai, shoot Abaki don't you play spepelling be Ay A pronounce it Abocy? Really thanks. Occuy Codes actually I it's Aby? Well, I'm Gaapz listeners will have the answer. Iome one way in. other try to channel other. The other one is a friend of mine is saying that yet another woman who was a military helicopter pilot won a primary, Democratic primary And she was saying, is there any woman who is a helicopter pilot who is not currently in Congress or running for c That was the question U Eily, you should have been helicopter pilot Obviously, although remember I get so sick, it would never work. I would be a real failure The semi quinentennial of the United States culminating on july fourth, twenty twenty six is shaping up to be I don't know. In embarrassment, maybe not spectacle. so a planned concert series is falling apart with most of the artists of the nineties, the artists of the nineties, Martina McBride and others pulling out when they realized it was part of a self glorification campaign This Trump self glorification campaign will also include celebrating the Declaration of Independence and of the nation just the way George Washington intended with a UFC fight on the White House lawn is releasing passports with his face on them. He's issuing gold coins with his face on on them. He's hoping to issue a two hundred and fifty dollars bill with his face on it to celebrate the nation's birthday. And meanwhile, as a Washingtonian, I'm both kind of like, Uh all but also, you know I'm appalled but also grateful a little bit that Trump is tarting up Washington. secretly, he secretly siphoned off money that was meant for national parks gild statues of horses, to restore fountains and to paint the reflecting pool a garish blue. It is And to pay for some incredibly overly expensive fireworks display is the ultimate symbol of all of this because it's literally a flash in the pan. It will disappear as soon as it's over. It's five times as expensive as any previous fireworks for Jly one. I'm going to give you a little math on this in a second. So it's this mastpiratory month of self glorification for Trump And so I actually at this point, Emily I start to do a little bit of math And so I just thought about not about the fireworks display, but I just thought about one of these stupidities, truly one of the stupidities That isn't even the biggest of the stupidities, which is painting the dumb reflecting pool blue completely unnecessary act And if you do the math entire federal tax bill of two thousand Americans is being used to paint the If you imagine you and every single person in your neighborhood Every dollar that you paid in federal taxes in the last year being used to paint a pool in Washington, D.C that does not need to be painted and to put it a different way They're spending five million dollars to reguild a few horse statues, which they did by siphoning money away from national park entrance fees The national Park entrance fees paid by two hundred fifty thousand Americans, or two hundred fifty thousand visitors will be used to guild the statues two hundred fifty thousand people came to America's parks and paid money to enter and see and like the service fees they're using to use that park. And what is that being spent on? two hundred fifty thousand people to guild a fucking horse statue Insane Well said and here here and also There was a moment of just, I don't know how you characterize it. I am struck dumb and I am incapable of forming the words to describe what happened in when the president spoke to reporters on Wednesday and held up a picture of the reflecting pool and noted and he was very proud of the fact he'd called for this illustration to be made, the title of the enormous placquer that held up was our pool is bigger than skyscrapers And it was a image of the reflecting pool and then an image of the World Trade Center, the Eiffel Tower and the Sears Tower And the president pointed out that the pool was bigger than those three buildings. Did he also point out that the pool lies flat on the ground and those are buildings that stand uppendicular from the He did, he did he did. facted did you do you remember that scene in the Spranos where where Tony is talking to I can't remember one of his henchmen and the henchman was like, Ohh, my mother's gone down this rabbit hole since nine eleven And and he said, you know, Qasimoto, he predicted all this And Tony and Tony says, no, no Stradamas. And he's like, Yeah, but did you ever think about that? I mean, Notre Dame and no Stradamas? And he's like, no they're two different things. He said, Yeah, but but there was a hunchback and Notre Dame has a quarterback. I mean, do you ever think of the coincidence and Tony is just like No, I don't think all those things. They are not They are not conected. They are not like I don't know why that was so funny. I mean, I guess we should laugh. I have more outrage to express though. The other thing I learned preparing for this segment was that Ten years ago, Congress set up this entity called America two hundred fifty that was supposed to be the planning entity for this celebration and was supposed to get a hundred million dollars. It was not super functional, but that was the entity that Congress designated. And then Trump came into office and set up a separate quote public private partnership called Freedom two hundred fifty. And now it seems that all of the money, our taxpayer money, is going to Freedom two hundred fifty and not to the congressional entity. And Freedom two hundred fifty is the one screwing up the plans for this, you know, music celebration, which has now fallen apart and just generally aligning with Trump and with MAGA It should be its own scandal. alsoso should be its own scandal that Trump Faced with this fallout, I believe over the weekend, and also, of course, the judge's ruling saying that his name should be stricken from the Kennedy Center because it had gone up there without congressional approval despite the clear words in the statute that it is Congress that names the Kennedy Center had this kind of temper tantrum on true social in which he was just like, cancel it all and then I'll be the substitute entertainment because I draw bigger crowds than Elvis. I mean, this is like real crazy stuff. I like that his reference is Elvis. now. Exactly. My reference is nineteen forty two. Not Wink Martendale I would like to say two things. One, JD Vance was in charge of all this. so it can't possibly Well done. JD Good. Not good for his also I think you could make the case. and I may even you made this may be coming to a subsec item near you. As America comes to its two hundred fiftieth anniversary, we are getting in real time a real series of moments where we are reacquainted with the views of the founders about power, about the sycophancy of political parties I mean nineteen seventy six was amazing. I was only eight, but I remember my mom taking me down to see the fireworks and it was two was I mean, I had bicentennial bedspreads, right from in my room. I mean, it was it was like a huge glorious thing. We're not getting that Everybody is getting a real lesson in What happens when power is not constrained by the system that was built to constrain it for conditions just like the ones that we're living in? And then I would just say one final thing. In seventeen ninety two, Congress debated to do with the country's new coinage, and they thought about putting a president's portrait on it in the way that the Treasury Department is thinking about putting Trump's face on a two hundred and fifty dollars bill. If you were trying to misunderstand the founders better It would be hard to come up with something U better than the two hundred and fifty dollars bill and putting the president's face on it In seventeen ninety two, they decided not to put the president on the coinage for all the obvious reasons because they had not fought this war and had this split from England to just create another monarchy So it's like they are driving exactly the lessons that the founders worried that we would forget and that would end up harming this great experiment. What's What's frustrating to me is that that if you look at the kind of actual seed ideas, the seed corn in the two hundred fiftieth celebration, it's not bad The Great American State Fair, which was the theme of it, is a wonderful idea. That's a really good idea for twoun hundred fiftieth celebration. No problem with that. A series of concerts on the malls by various artists, various you know, musical backgrounds. genres, great idea No, no problem with that. A wonderful fireworks display. I have less You know, like if you're going to do a gigantic fireworks display, do it for the two f. Well, you already have a Roman candle on the mall Um, Yes, they're going to shoot off the Washington Monument. So I don't like I don't think that the ideas are bad, but what's bad is that the the ideas then because the people who are implementing them are such sycophants, because they are serving a court. They're serving the emperor and the court. They take this good idea and turn it into glorification of Trump rather than rather than allowing it to be itself and make it something that O people who are who want to glorify Trump are going to want to attend rather than something that all Americans will want to attend. And it's it's just like it's such a shame. I actually think that the when you think about the the camel breaking, the camelback breaking straw I think the camelback breaking straw in Washington really was that when Trump put his name on the Kendy Center because it was so u unnecessary, so pointless, so clearly about him and not about the thing itself. U and There It was being done for no reason other than this president wanted to glorify himself and his the sycophs were like, let us glorify him. And I think all sorts of people at that moment were like, well can't this is this just can't work anymore I mean, there's so many vibes of the waning days of the Roman Empire. Like there's just so many. It's like how many parallels do we need? And you can imagine a Democratic administration doing things that would be irritating because there are fights over what the American story is and how much to include and And there's all that. But we are in a completely different category here This isn't just one party's, clumsy attempt to celebrate and mismangle American history. We are in the category of a series of events from the ballroom, to the money, to the Kennedy Center, to this celebration itself, as it looks like it's being planned which are not just a misunderstanding of presidential history. They are a glorification of a human being, which is like the total opposite. So it's just like it's a special category And can you imagine what would have happened if any other president, Republican or Democrat in history had taken National Park entrance fees to repurpose to guild statues to pt to hire his pool guy to paint the pool the reflecting pool blue. Can you imagine like that kind of diversion. So I run this Fort tour Fort Diusi tour which is on a National Park Service land, National park land, our land. sometimes people come just as my guests or they, you know, they I add them on and they ask, oh what can I you know, can I charge for the and they're like can I pay you And I was like, no, J just make a donation to the National Parks Foundation And now I can no longer have people do that because National Parks Foundation is the instrument by which Trump is like siphoning all this money to the Cool Yeah depressing. Did you guys read that great David from column about It's about Bill Pulty, who's the new national intntelligence director who was the federal housing. He was running federal housing, but his main qualification touch on this.' like justirect Yeah. I mean just like this ultramagaty he's only thirty eight years old, ultramaga dude who has been using federal housing, positioned federal housing to go after Lisa Cook at the Fed to kind of do ultra MAGA things. And FrM has a really good column about why is it that the worst people rise up on authoritarian regimes Basically the reason is like authoritarian regimes demand that you've debased yourself in order to advance the suupreme leader's desires. and people with any and you gain power by doing that by harming others and debasing yourself The only kind of people who do that are people who have no moral code and The people who remain and serve are the people who just are willing to they're willing to debase themselves and That's what we've got people willing to debase themselves I mean, can we also say Bill Polty's claim to fame is that he's been going around and you know, accusing prominent officials, especially Fed officials on the tissue Jes fra and Letishia James, the attorney general of New York State of mortgage fraud that has never been proven, right? It's like we're not bringing charges. we're just making these allegations, which are excuses to smear people or, you know potentially, I guess, prosecute them, but mostly just get Lisa Cook, the member of the Fed board of governors out of office. The Supreme Court has not decided that case yet. So we'll see what happens. But that's Bill Poltty's claim to fame. This is a job, Director of National intelligence. The statute says you have to have extensive national security experience. He does not have that This office could be at the center of whatever efforts the Trump administration comes up with to monkey with the twenty twenty six elections. It seems like that is something they are considering. That's on the horizon, something we should be vigilant about. And it is entirely possible that Congress will refuse to confirm Bill Polty, but he can be in the acting DNI for two hundred ten days, which takes us beyond the midterms So like there's it's both what you were saying, David, and then also this like very serious potential edge. Oh, and we're at war with Iran, which is among other things, cooking up ways to attack America inside of America, which is the whole point of the DNI when it was first created after nine hundred eleven because the individual intelligence agencies were not communicating with each other. and remember that phrase was used so often, they weren't connecting the dots. And so you have in a very serious time an unserious selection And we should also add that the continued reporting from the president's decision making with respect to Iran, which was that he just blew through all of the warnings about how this could go wrong in the precise way in which it has gone wrong And when you have sycophants in those jobs And then you have in Congress, the Tom Cotton, chair of the intelligence Committee saying, I have no opinion about Hty when you have that in operation put more power in the hands of a president. And even the best president needs people pushing back with actual reality and not fantasy So speaking of vainglorious and pompous and overwrought, let's turn to the Wld Cup The World Cup is actually becoming kind of part of the sides show for the semi quinentennial It's running from june thirteenth, so in end of next week until July about Mid July and It's given us the picture, the portrait of FIFA, the soccer's organizing body and its leader, Johnny Infantino. because they have gone full suck up on Trump. Infantino gave created a peace prize out of nothing. Why would soccer give a peace priz? But he created a peace Prize out of nothing, and of course awarded the inaugural Peace Prize to Trump, staged the World Cup drawing at the Kenny Center He's been at Trump's sideed event after event. And so the spectacle that's about to happen, the USA, Mexico, Canada World Cup is likely to be the most lucrative sport event and the history of humanity. one hundred and four matches There will be huge stadium ticket revenues, colossal TV revenues. It's going to dwarf any you know, any Super Bowl, any and see a tournament any Olympics. It's going to be bigger than most most skyscrapers. It will be bigger than a skyscraper. It will be if you put the money on the ground flat It would stretch for twelve miles, which is much bigger than any skyscraper in Abu Dhabi I'll say that Um So I don't know, Are you guys looking forward to it? I'll start with that I'm like the last person to ask. I just don't watch any soccer. But are you looking forward to it Be because you are the soccer. Both your sons played soccer. I know, but they're not in the World Cup. Your husband playays socer. I used to play soccer with your husband? They love soccer. I watched lots of my kids games. You're talking about the World Cup. I noticeed it was on the television screen, but I'm not so I'm just not the right person for this question, but are you looking forward to this despite all the again Wait, I want to weigh in because we know David We know David loves soccer. You and I are in the position of being you know, uninitiated and have been deprived of the glory of the sport I am looking forward to hopefully getting caught up in despite everything you've just described, David, in the wonder of sport and like I've always wanted to like soccer. It just seems so there seems like a barrier to get into it. and I have So I'm really psych to like hopefully get caught up in it. And there was a I guess the arsenal game recently, David, that you willll explain to me why it was so important. some friends of mine that I'm on a text chain with. We're just losing their minds. And so I want to be, you know that enthusiastic about something. Imagine it as an Iowa caucus that lasts for thirty nine days, John. Y. I think the thing about all World Cups is that the World Cup Soccer's organizing bodies are extremely corrupt. poorly run, vulnerable to exploitation by authoritarians 's great. They are filled with self dealing and exploitation, profiteering, U you know, all kinds of abuses, both both abuses in the form of like bribery, but abuses of actual workers and the preparations for World Cups. Um And yet once First whistle blows on the first game All of it will be forgotten. All the fans will forget all that stuff instantly. they will Lately caught up in the sport and the sport will be phenomenal and it will be wonderful in the kind of competition and watching the fans of Scotland and the fans of Haiti and the fans of Curasao and the fans of Italy. Oh no, Italy didn't qualify. haaha,. Italy. The fans of France and the fans of Spain. just like go crazy will be so wonderful. It'll be amazing. There's going to be these fanzones in American cities where people are going to gather and there's it will be Festive All the kind of thing that you hope for from the two hundred fiftieth book come out in these civic gatherings of expat communities, expat or Diaspora communities of Brazilians of Portuguese of everybody and it will be amazing. And it will be so fun and the soccer the quality of the soccer will be awesome and some great team will emerge from nowhere and surprise everyone in the US either will be surprisingly great or surprisingly terrible. Both outcomes will be enjoyable. and It will it will bring so much joy to the world and to me And to you, if you let it, if you allow yourself to go and watch a game with some people And does that make all the corruption and badness irrelevant? Like you just don't really care. It's the cost of it. We shouldn't worry about cleaning it up. There is no way to do. So you're saying you support Graam Platinner Exactly. Thats that's exact Hey, what David for the person who calls a soccer match a game, that someone that clueless about soccer Yes, I don't we will have to find that person lonely wandering in their isolated life. What is the entry point for me? in other words, like what first match should I watch or what help me help me give me be the shoehorn to get me into the tight fitting cleat I think The experiential thing I would urge you to have is to go find a group of fans who are watching a game fans who are, you know, from South Africa who are here watching the South African they're at a bar that's watching South Africa games or in the fan zone where all the Brazilians of New York gather to watch Brazil play whoever they're playing. The first rounds of games are actually not going to be that interesting, though they've also, one of the other things they've done is abusively restructure the tournament. It used to be thirty two teams. they've expanded to forty eight teams. and the result of that for reasons that are not worth getting into is they've taken out a lot of the jeopardy in the first few games that it's mostost of the teams will qualify for what's called the knockout rounds without any significant trouble. And so the early round games, which used to have a lot more risk in them are going to have lower stakes and that will be a bit of a bummer joy of the fans who are watching those games will not be diminished. So maybe find Scotland fans, John. you're an Anglophile or Britophile, G find a bar where people watch the Scotland team play and just sit among them and have a beer and watch that. And that you might or might not care about the game, but you'll certainly care about those people who you're sitting. My Italian friend who lives in Brussels, went to London to watch the arsenal match in the Premier League title game I think along the same lines of what you were saying, David, which is to be with the with the people be among the people. I there's a really great story in the athletic today about why it is. So one of the things that's truly dismal about this World Cup is ticket prices are outrageously high. and it matches what's happened with American sports in general, which is that American ticket prices have risen at about double the rate of inflation over the last few years. Like year after year the inflation rate for a sports ticket is double the inflation rate for everything. And as a result Over time, the accumulation of that has made sports tickets in the US. just crazily expensive zally expensive in FIFA which controls the ticketing for the World Cup has made this World Cup five or ten X more expensive than previous World Cups. And It just means that it's very hard for people to go and the cost of going to a game, you basically Even to go to a shitty little game you're going to end up spending a thousand dollars a person just to go to a shitty game. and to go to a really good game, you're going to spend thousands and thousands of dollars a person. That just seems like situation. Um But I don't know. I think I would really encourage everybody to allow themselves caught up in the emotion of it If you want, you can choose when you go home at night to focus on the corruption and the self dealing that is intrinsic to FIFA and the way in which they've aligned themselves with Trump and be sad about that. But honestly, the amount of joy that will be created by this World Cup will In my mind, Dwarf. that it is corrupt spectac I wish that it didn't have to be both. Like I wish we could have it be not this Well do you feel the Olympics or corrupt spectacle or not really. Some more than about them Yeah, I feel like it's more mixed I mean, so I would say that soccer the global soccer is slightly more corrupt than the Olympics because it's got It's got more There's more money in soccer than there is in a lot of those Olympic sports but it isn't It's not like that much more corrupt than the Olympics. And people still manage to find so much joy in the Olympics whyy can't you manage to find that much joy and in soccer. I guess the athletes in soccer are not the kind of amateurs or the amateurs are lightly paid professionals that are there in so many of the Olympic sports. so you don't have You know, you can think about the athlette's journey, that cross country skiers's journey is a different thing than thinking about some er player was paid millions and millions and millions of dollars. Yeah. I mean, to me, the joy of soccer is the way in which everybody can play all over the world and that like, you know, I've seen my husband stop on the side of a hiking trail in various different countries. and there's some kid who doesn't even have a real soccer ball just and they'll just start juggling. And like it's amazing how just totally low tech It is and to just play. But this professional level just doesn't have the same appeal of any of that, right? I mean, whereas like all of the great Olympic stories are the mom who's like amazing at the Bobs led who, you know, doesn't look like a real athlete and had to go through whatever hoops of childcare to be able to train it all. Those stories are so unlikely at the Olympics. It is such a quirky collection of people all getting to be amazing athletes. professionalccer does not seem that way Sorry All right Lets I don't think we should end on a down note though, because I know people love this. should if you were offered a ticket will you go You should go. ye. Yes, I would go. Yes. Should you pay for a ticket M maybe not those prices. U I Yeah. Can I just throw random sports facts in here, which is that the heat wave that is gripping Europe has affected the French open, not just because the players are getting you know, overwhelmed by the actual heat Um alsoso because the heat affects the play. The ball travels faster in the heat. So like power hitters who are usually have a bit of a deficit on clay because it's so slow u had a had a better time of not, you know, it was easier for them than normal. And I was intrigued by that, but I then also, which reminded me to pay attention to the French open where There are some of the most extraordinary rallies ever because they can all get to the fault.ible. So you it's it's been it's been extraordinary to watch incredible. And climate change I'll note just because we're going to keep this on soccer, Jon. sorry. Climate change is also massively aecting this worldorld Cup, because it's going this going be savagely hot tournament probably. and their teams a lot of these teams play, they play effectively winter season. So In high summer in most of the world, people do not play soccer. They play soccer from fall through spring. And so now they're playing this tournament in high summer in one of the hottest countries, two of the hottest countries in the world in the US and Mexico. They're theseese athletes are suupremely conditioned or just worry that they will not be able to compete at the highest level because it will be so hot U And in fact, like Yes, I'll just startop me.. and a whole other deeper rabbit hole to to but I will not Let us go let us go to cocktail Chatter when you John Dickerson are having a delicious gin martini. you' utterly charming wife, Anne, what will you say I could go for one of those right now. I am I was just sort of tickled by the not tickled, that's the wrong thing. Anyway, there's aemetery in Ithaca, New York that holds one of the largest largest and oldest known colonies of ground nesting bees fiveive point five million of them So why did this They're bigger than a skyscraper? Yes, exactly. And you could like one and a half reflecting pools will be filled with bees Here why did this interest me? I didn't realize. I always think of the bees that somehow get into my office here, which are basically what look to me like honey bees. But these are ground nesting bees, which is basically seventy five percent of all bees species. So I didn't realize that they were that dominant in the world. And what I also didn't know is that I always think of bees as operating in this like collective hive. But apparently these bees, the five point five million of them packed into an acre and a half in Ithaca. in a cemetery basasically more like the residents of Manhattan. which is to say that like they all have gone to the same place because it's attractive for various reasons for theirves lives, which are basically spent basically breeding, going out and getting food for the babies, and then doing that until they die They've just all chosen the same place. They're not in they're not in a hive with a queen way the way I think of it. And so they are very much like the Ithicans living above them or I guess buried above them and also living above them U Anyway, so that was my it's at the East Lawn Cemetery That was built in nineteen hundred and the estimation is basically that they've been there. You know, because the babies grow up like humans where their parents lived. And so they've all just kind of lived there over the generation Do they sting shouldould people visit? I don't I think they sting, but I don't know. David, it's the only question. Let's look it up. Um, I they they were speaking of just visit Yeah, they don't. Okaykay. good Um It was discovered because a woman who basically cut through the cemetery on her way to work noticed that she works in the Cornell Lab. In the spring, they all move around a lot more and it looked like the ground was moving Emily. what is your Buzzy chatter Um, ry to be a downer, but I just have to call out the Supreme Court ruling in the Alabama follow up case about the Voting Rights Act I sort of feel like this hasn't gotten enough attention because we talked a lot about Louisiana versus Kalay, which was the ruling a few weeks ago that basically made it much, much harder to win a Voting rightights actct claim in a redistricting case. But now we have the proof that it's basically impossible to win what happened was that A three judge panel in Alabama, three federal judges. These are Republican appointees They had an eleven day trial about whether there had been intentional racial discrimination in the redistricting in Alabama. And this was the new standard that was supposed to be very hard to meet that the Supreme Court set Well, these judges said that the plaintiffs had met the standard and that The redistricting represented an intentional effort to dilute the voting strength of black voters in Alabama. And the Supreme Court just reversed this. Even though the standard for reversal is like you have to show clear error by the lower courts, it just It's pretty breathtaking in terms of suggesting that nobody is going to win any of these cases ever anymore And obviously, it's also the Supreme Court appearing to put its thumb on the scale for a map that is going to advantage Republicans Yeah. anyway. Hey, Emily. What was their reasoning The reasoning was that, you know, this is this difficult question about int the intertwining or the confusion or maybe entanglement is the best word of partisan gerrymandering and racial gerrymandering, right? So this redistricting benefited Republicans as well as as the court found, the lower court disadvantaging bllack voters. and so The reasoning here was that the three judges had failed to give proper deference to state lawmakers that they're supposed to receive a quote presumption of legislative good faith And that that would mean that you would read this redistricting as about partisan advantage, not about race discrimination I mean, again, that's like, okay, well, then we're just not going to ever think that redistricting is wrong. U All right, my Tow is much less depress. One I imagine there's a strong cadreay of listeners to the Gfest who were like me part of its academic It's academic. Wait. Were you on it's academic I was No, no, of course not. You totally seem like a person who would dominate Scott McFarlane though, I think it was on it. But no, I didn't know anything when I was a kid It's Academic is the longest running high school quiz show on the planet according to the Guness Book of Worlds Records for sixty five years, it has been a weekly fixture in Washington, DC, and it continues. and it pits teams from all the high schools in the area against each other in a quiz bowl. Other cities have things like quiz bowls and there's college quiz bows But its academic has has been going in DC. and it's incredible and the some amazing people have been on it and the show itself is glorious and wonderful. And great conversation with the person who's in charge of it the other day. and building it academic alumni network and they want to have sort of alumni games where you know, teams from schools play I alumni and see how they do. I would get crushed. I used to be really good now I wouldn't. But if you're interested, if you're part of the it's accademic world Check out it's academicquiz showhow. com. It's academicquizhow. com and they have an alumni sign up. And they're also raising money, but don't raise, give money or not, but definitely become part of this network But that's not my actual chatter.atter is Is it Mac McGary? Mac McGuary now It's been Mc McGuarary's been succeeded by someone who has also has anilliterative named Hillary Howard. Howard Yeahah, R. Hillary Howard u It's now on WETA. used to be on a different channel. now it's on WETA, the PBS station here. My actual chters about a great podcast episode I listened to from Publatory findinds out. You know, he's just this wonderful sports, he's a sports podcaster, but it's much bigger than sports. And it's about O's the mentalist I've seen it bigiger Yes. So this is an incredible episode where Publatory teams up with this other magician and to explain Why why O's mentalist is a shyer It's a debunking. It's an incredible debunking of O's the mentalist. And it's just you're like, wow, this is great. This is just takes apart how he manipulates people, how he appears to read minds, how he manipulates the setting. and you just come away thinking like Okay, well I never need to think about this guy ever again He's he's a scam artist. Wait, but have you ever seen? is it O's or Ozs It's on the episode, they say, o Have you ever seen him do his u Okay And it's like pretty impressive. Oh my God, it's Crazy impressive Oh my God. yeah, yeah. Okay.. Well the debunking is pretty impressive. And the reason they debunk and because I think magic is wonderful. and I think like having people do cool magic is great. I think the reason they felt it was okay to debunk him was that they think the claims that he's making are so psychologically manipulative about people that he's he's making claims about what he is doing and using it to to actually cause the people who read his books And u follow him on his platforms to change their own they're changing their behavior based on things that he's telling them. He's saying that he's doing these mental tricks, it's close observation and has literally nothing to do with it. It is just pure it's pure old school magic of various sorts and so that they felt like it was okay tobunk debunk him.way. it's a great episode Listeners, you also have chatters, please keep them coming about something you're interested in. please email them to us at gavestlake. com and our listener chatter this week comes from Jay Lloyd. My chter this week is about charm pricing which is the practice of ending the price for something in a number other than zero two ninety nine cents versus three dollars I was surprised to learn in a recent article by Allison Stein in The Hustle that the practice originated not with the idea of enticing customers, but to protect against theft by employees When most transactions were in cash, the need to give a penny or two back in change required opening the cash register meaneaning that the employee couldn't simply pocket the money But the reason why charm pricing remains effective and is unlikely to go away even with the demise of the penny. is something called the left digit effect Our brains tend to give more weight to the first number we see. So two dollars ninety nine c feels significantly less than three dollars notot because it's one cent less, but because we think of it as about two dollars In fact, when JC Penny did away with charm pricing in twenty twelve, Customers felt that the store had become more expensive and the company had a reverse course That's what I'll be chatting about over what I'm sure will be a charmingly priced cocktail I love that First of all, I didn't know it was called charm pricing. Right Yeah, me neither Uh We're not the only podcast plate released this week I hope that would be weird if we were the only one U There's an episode that you might want to listen to of one of my favorite slate podcasts, Hit Parade. Hit Parade is this great podcast by Chris Molanfy that looks at subject, which sounds unlikely, especially because none of us pay that much attention to musical charts. But Chris is obsessed with what songs are number one, which how songs rise and fall on the charts. he's interesting about it. And he has an episode called Near Miss It' seventies edition. and it's all about songs that didn't make number one in the seventies that you'd be like, off course it was number one. It must have been number one. Like we are family never was number one. tiny dancer, never number one. And so it's a celebration of the near misses of the seventies. Check it out parade. That is our episode for this week We also have a bonus episode in your feed. We're going talk about what a new movie and a new TV show tell us about the state of marriage That is just for slight plus let's place plus members, excuse me, sl plus members who Bonus episodes of all sllate podcasts, they get discounts to live shows, like the ones we're planning. they never hit the paywall on the slate site. If you are a member, thank you, enjoy it. If you're not a member, subscribe to Slate Plus directly from the Political Gatfest showow page on Apple Podcasts andpotify, or visit slate. com slashgatfest plus to get access wherever you listen. That's our show for today. The Political Gatfest is produced by Nina Por Zuki Our researchers, Emily Dittdo, our theme music is by they might be Giants Ben Richmond, Sior director for podcast Ox Mila Bell, EP of Slate podcasts, Hillary Fry, EIC of Slate for Emily Baslon and John Dickerson and David Klots. thanks for listening to talkking to you. Next week