Cocktail Chatter and Closing Remarks

Hello and welcome to Slate Political Gab Fest may twenty eighth twenty twenty six The They Messed with Texas Edition. I'm David Plotz of City Cast here in Washington, DC. I have this odd condensation on my glasses that really makes me look strange I don't forget that. Are you are are you u Oated? Yeah, I'm just post workout and now I have like extra eyebrows that are white caused by condensation. Anyway, that's John Dickerson, who I discovered looks amazing in a suit. John, even though you're not on TV every day, you still look great in a suit. Oh thank you. Well, I don't have to wear it very much so I can wear the best of the racks. Some some men can really carry off a suit, John Dickerson is one. Emily Baslon of the New York Times Magazine Yale University Law Sch you I don't know if do you wear suits? Do you have any power suits I really was never a suit person. In law school I had one. Did youired? Did you interview in it? Uhhuh. Yeah. Why wouldn't we? You could wear You're tall. You're tall, you carry it off Yeah, I guess so. anyway. Wait the the interview that is how I think about it The interview didn't go well when you were wearing. No, it went fine. I just meant it was when I was interviewing for law firm jobs. It was more that the job didn't go that well. The interview was fine. It was not my best performance ever This week on the Gab vest Could James Talorico break the thirty year Democratic jinx in Texas after Ken Pxton's extraordinary Republican primary win in that Senate race thenen we are always allegedly on the verge of a deal to end the war in Iran U Could a deal actually happen? What would it be bad would be for America Trump at all Th thenen we're going to talk to New York Congressional candidate, Alex Boris, who is rising higher in the polls, the more money AI supporters spend attacking him plus' have cocktail chan So Ken Paxton trrounced John Cornan in the Texas Republican Senate primary runoff this week, ensuring that one of the most MAGA politicians in America be on the November ballot. Paxton, who's been indicted on corruption charges, been impeached accused by his wife of adultery is one of the most brawling and ruthless and hard headed politicians among Texas Republicans and Texas Republicans are brawling and Rutless's hard headed bunch. He is he's ultra Maga, he's a Trump toote of the highest order. and he makes Ted Cruz who I previously thought of as somebody who was like at the far end of acceptable in the world of politics just for his general I unpleasantness. He makes Ted Cruz seem like a cabbage patch doll So like some hippie ceramics teacher, but Paxton is not going to face The baby faced assassin, James Taliicko, the Democratic nominee, Bible quoting theologically minded progressive who won the Democratic primary and what will be most the most expensive Senate race in the history of Earth and probably the Democrats' best chance to win a Senate see in Texas in more than a generation. So John I want to give you start you with this statistic, which is that Paxton won this race going away. He won he trnced Cornan. He got eight hundred thousand votes, Cornan got five hundred thousand votes. However When you look at those numbers, Paxton will need four or five million votes to win in November. U So How does he get from eight hundred to four or five million Well yes, and those numbers were also interesting me as well. So In March, Cornan beats Paxton but doesn't get doesn't beat the threshold to have a runoff. So they had to have this runoff. what happened in the runoff is Pxton held on to his very tight strong base. And basically Cornan's voters just totally just disappeared They just like We're not on for it I believe in the end, Paxton while increasing the size of his vote from the March election did not beat the number of voters that Cornan turned out in March And that's to say that Paxton has a like super Booion cube Mga base not likely to be able to expand it. And there are a bunch of Republicans in Texas who are so unhappy or restive or just not into it, that they wouldn't even turn out to try to like stop Paxton and support their guy Cornan, who they'd already voted for once If that's the mood among these other Republicans, the kind of what And we need to come up with a word for them, but I guess one of to steal from the Bulwark gang, the Normy Republicans, which even itself is a weird word because those Normy Republicans are ones who voted for Donald Trump, who is in no sense a normi Republican And one of the problems with this race is that you hear in the shorthand people covering it and saying, No Paxton's more conservative than John Corman John Cornan is an extremely conservative senator He votes with Donald Trump ninety nine percent of the time. R He is the only thing that he did was he bucked against with the exception ofun some gun legislation. But he essentially said it wasn't great that the january sixth mob had attacked the Capitol and thought that's all you need to know. Exactly. And that is, you know more proof in this particular race, But back to your question, David You know, Paxton is, as you pointed out, I think that he's a different of a different kind than than Ted Cruz. Ted Cruz is at the edge of the Normy Republican But he was a solicitor general who roughly played by the rules. His hardball wasn't that much hardball relative to what we see with Donald Trump. Paxton is actually in the Trump camp. So what does he need to do? He needs to like basically make Perto Rico like a huge massive threat to the Republic because That's the only way to scare the Normi of Republicans back into voting for I mean, unfortunately, Tuo Rico has some past video that is out of the mainstream, right? I mean, it's not like there's not going to be any ammunition. I don't know about threat to the Rublic, but like he has said some things in the past in the sort of you know twenty twenty one miasma that are not probably aligned with the views of Texas voters No, I mean yeah, he said stuff about there, you know, there are six sex sexes and genders. Yes. Six genders. But the way they're going after him, the smears that are going after him. So Stephen Miller tweeted that o Talerico is the first transgender Senate candidate And U They're calling, you know, they they're just they're just going to be very crude about it. Is that Is that going to work in this environment? It really that was pretty effective in twenty twenty four. She's for they them. was very effective in twenty twenty four It feels to me like this is a different moment where that patients with that particular line of attack may not be high. I mean, there's so many other things that seem more important than that Right. I mean that that line of attack does not have that much to do with affordability, with gas prices with the war. Like all of those things should make that pale in comparison. You're going to have all these countervailing pressures. So this will be highly focused on Right? You've got Paxton who is, you know, cinematic in his troll like behavior and his ogre like behavior. and I mean, the biblical divorce, the indicted by his own party. I guess he settled the investigation into his one of the other fraud seecurities fraud. Let's just say that like some of the people who accused him of corruption were like his own top deputies. Oh they testified. L it's not small thing So that'll get a lot of coverage. And then Tal Rico is quite charismatic and playing against the they're going to try to put him in this box of the kind of other crazy liberal. He also because he's a seminarian and as you mentioned before, David, he can quote inverse better than most of the people. who are associated with Christian nationalism It's going to get a hell of a lot of coverage. So that will put it in the national frame, which is the way you guys have been talking about. Then there's the Texas frame, which is that Talerico probably runs in a more Republican state than Bet O'Rk ran in. And Beto O'Rork ran a pretty good campaign. for Texas and still lost. So What do you mean by that? But But what do you say that he ran a more Republican state? I mean, yet Trump won Texas by fourteen points, which was in twenty twenty four But I think the question about whether Texas is more or less Republican really is contingent on how loyal or how attached Hispanics are to the Republican partarty. Well, so that's part of it. When O'Rke ran, I think Texas was like a plus nine Republican state. now it's a plus fourteen Republican state Now But what I'm saying is he's a plusteen in the last presidential election, which had certain unique qualities. And does that mean that it's plus fourteen really or just that it was plus fourteen in that moment Yes, plus fourteen doesn't mean that that's who's going to turn out. It just is the, I mean, you're going to have a lot of Republicans who aren't going to turn out for Paxton, which is also a thing that that that knocks it down. But I mean, if you're running and you're trying to evaluate the landscape as you face it The state has changed more towards at least hearing the arguments of Donald Trump and the Republican Party than from where it was when Bet war ran. So it's got like that is a challenge that he faces And then I guess the biggest challenge for Tero Rico really is can he get any of those normy Republicans by saying a combination of U You know, Paxton wants to focus on whatever he wants to focus on, I'm focused on your lives and who you are. And if Paaxon gets to Washington, he will be an actual danger The challenge for Terto Rico is two things. One, the national environment is going to whipsaw the conversation all over the place and it'll be hard for him to keep it focused. And secondly, he wants a personality contest. He wants to talk about all the things that Paxton has done that are obviously, verifiably and objectively objectionable If you're going to spend time on the personal characteristics turn of. then you can't say when personal characterological attacks are aimed at you, you can't say, oh, you know, that's besides the point. I think you're right, John, of course, Ter Rico needs to get Normy Republicans or he certainly needs to ensure that Normy Republicans don't have a reason to vote for Paxson and whether or not they vote for him, like to make sure that they don't feel animated to vote for Paxson. I don't know. I mean one of the things that would worry me if I were Talo Rico is the way that Jasmine Crocket, the woman he defeated in the in the Senate primary, in the Democratic primary, who was a black woman, house member from Dallas has not been kind of enthusiastically backing him and she has not made it her goal to get black voters in Texas who are a huge percentage of the Democratic electorate to be fired up about Puerto Rico. And he's going to need, he not only needs sort of a low turnout from Republican voters. he does need Democratic voters to feel an affirmative reason to come out for him And right. And I think the question to me is whether he will get large turnouts in Houston and Dallas where he'll need lots of black voters to support him. Yeah. I mean, that's partly on the party, right? Like that's the party needs to get them to unify if they can't do it themselves Maybe doesn't he's then he's out of luck. But I think that's right. I think you the Normi Republicans thing can be overstated. I think I don't think he can win with none of them. He has to have some of them, but he has to do, as you said, David, bring have a strong shine from the traditional Democratic base among African Americans. and he has to go find some voters He has to go like spend that twenty seven million dollars he raised in the first quarter of twenty twenty six builduing a a kind of grassroots coalition which will be know, which is hard because obviously, getting people to turn out in non presresidential years is more difficult. Can I change the subject slightly but to stay in Texas, which is that I love Texas. I really love Texas. I love going to Texas In general, I love Texans And even Textans who I I'm sure do not share my political beliefs. I just think There's just a liveliness and a vitality to that state that I think is great and a kind of braggadociousness and sense of grandiosity that is really, really fun and makes a wonderful place to visit. I've never lived there I've never had a trip to Texas that I didn'd have a great time on and Yet the Texas Republican Party is just filled with assholes is filled with people who are just macho and bullying and unpleasant. and that is the that is the kind of the way that The way that you rise in that party is that way And I wonder if like that ratchet of course, Trump has, you know, Trump has made it clear that that is a that's a path But can that ratchet come back? Well, I mean, remember Hin was not that way neither was George W. Bush. right? I mean, remember that like only twenty six years ago, Um And maybe that maybe that's I mean, obviously, we have gone through a hyper hyper massive change in Republican politics since twenty sixteen. but And we should talk just sorry, while I'm there Remember that Ronald Reagan, one of his famous lines was somebody who is with you eighty percent of the time is an ally, not a twenty percent enemy. And the John Cornan story is like turning that on its head. Somebody that's with you ninety nine percent of the time is your enemy. And the reason he was the enemy is because he was not loyal to Donald Trump. and he, you know, had the temerity to work with Democrats on some gun legislation in the wake of one of these mass shootings. those qualifications are entirely antithetical towards getting anything done in the way you're supposed to through compromise in a legislative body. So it's not just that Paxton is super MAGA. It's that the selection process that also kicked out Bill Cassidy in Louisiana Tell us not to run again in North Carolina that the Republican Party is selecting for the attributes that are entirely opposed to the job that the people will go to do, which is to make compromise, which is the only way you can make durable legislation. Anyway, The Texas of George W. Bush was like we're going to focus on you know, education and lifting people from non white communities through greater opportunity U I mean, and it was not George W. Bush played a kind of hard ball and Carl Rove was accused of being, you know, hardball all the way back to the college Republicans. this was patty cake compared to what we see now U and that grew up out of a Texas tradition as well. But I can it ratchet back I do not think so I mean Look at the damage that Donald Trump has done to the national landscape and yet He is in an incredibly unpopular world and he has his singular domestic policy initiative tariffs. is totally unpopular. O the one thing people care about which is prices. And yet the more radioactive he becomes, the more candidates like Paxton turn their face to the glow of the radioactivity President Trump may or may not be trying to close some kind of deal with Iran to end the self inflicted wound of a war. With. Gas prices and inflation en raging Americans with the strait of Hormuz still closed, with the American military running short of crucial munitions, and with no easy way out, Trump would like a way to save face And any deal would likely mean something that reopens the strait, frees up billions in frozen Iranian assets, lifts some sanctions, and pushes off the hardest decisions about nuclear material to the future. But each time that he approaches a deal Like he asymptotically approaches a deal. He then shies away because it becomes clear to him even to him, I guess, that it would be humiliating. And in the latest round really looked earlier this week, like, oh, yeah, we're just on the verge of a deal. and then he has a cabinet meeting and he starts comparing the Iran situation to Vietnam and Afghistan, which is an interesting comparison. But the point he was trying to make was those wars lasted for decades. This war could last for a decade. We've just been going for months. We could go for decades Wh How were you ass? I don't I that most people are like, oh yes, we loved it when we were at war in Vietnam and Afghanistan. That was so great Eily to regret in those escapades. Do you think we are actually approaching a deal or not? I mean, one of these things we never know, like you have always the truism about congressional negotiations is always like it's darkest before the dawn, which is that when you think nothing's happening, actually everything is all happening behind the scenes and it's, you know could be that even as we're taping this, something is being announced you know a fifty year peace deal, suddenly and all the Iranian nuclear material is actually in my truck somewhere Wait, you have a truck No, I don't have a truck No. I meant like Trump's truck, an American truck U I think the opposite that there's actually less happening then meets the eye that I mostly think Trump is just trying to manipulate the markets. Like every time there's a headline like, o, they get close, the market recovers somewhat. and maybe he just takes some you know, joy from that and that's like enough. I don't I mean He is in a sort of like impossible position, which is that he doesn't want to have a full blown troops on the ground brutes on the ground war. like that I think that would maybe be the end. of his standing in America at least. But he also is having trouble acceding to a deal which everyone is going to immediately smell as a loser. You know, they're going to punt on the nuclear materials, like you said. It's going to seem worse than the Obama era deal that he ripped up I mean, this fantasy that all a bunch of new states are going to sign on to the Abraham acccords is like the ultimate Donald Trump, right? You just like toss something wildly implausible out there force those countries to either or both like laugh behind your back and also just like quietly ignore you But you've like mixed up the conversation for a day or two. So that's good enough. Thinking back to all of the claimsonald Trump made for this war, there was going to be regime change. There was going to be that Iran had already agreed to give over all of its nuclear material. All of those things he claimed, none of which came to pass, when you can't check the boxes that you put out as the conditions for the war, you changed the criteria In other words, don't use the measuring stick I told you all to use Let's use this new one, which is it's not as bad as Vietnam which is an a massive rhetorical admission of defeat. There is a piece in foreign affairs called Iran and the Forever War Trap by Lawrence Friedman. And He basically makes the case that and we've seen this reporting, but that essentially Trump thought he was going to have a short war and like he was he was quite wrong. Friedman's point is basically whether he wins the L War or not He has lost the short war Um And in these discussions about an agreement for the Strait of Hormuz Think about how the goal posts have changed I mean, the strait of Hormmoon isn't getting a deal to open it is getting a deal to return things to the way they were before the war. Well, actually not even because almost any deal will include some tariff that will be paid for environmental benefits to Oman and Iran. So not even And And also releasing and probably undoing sanctions. again, which was not the situation before the war. And then of course, after he said they were getting close to a deal on the strait, there was there's a new exchange of fire and as of taping on Thursday, it's not crazy to think that the ceasefire could completely fall apart becausecause Iran has retaliated and they're retaliating not just against U. S. assets, but countries in the region that are aligned with the United States. So it may actually just fall apart on its own. And can I just say one other quick thing while we're here, CSIS has done it an analysis of the munitions that are being spent in this short war. Oh and Basically what it finds is that a thousand tomahawks have been used The production of toomahawks is about two hundred a year so that basically to get back up to where the Congress wants the level to be for Tomahawks. Things should be ready by about twenty thirty So in other words, this short war is costing massive is going to create a huge gap, according to CSIS in the American ability to project power and engage in warfare with any of its larger challenges which is, you know, at least China, if not other. But the way that one deals with that is to just call anyone treasonist who points it out, like even the most rock ribbed Republican senator, right? I mean, that's where we are in Trump world I guess maybe because I'm falsely optimistic person I do that one of the effects of this war and of the degrading of our military capacity and the sense that what we have is not quite what we need will make America think like, oh, maybe the answer isn't that we need to build tomahawks at you know, whatever they are, forty million a pop but that we need a totally different approach to how we to how we arm ourselves and that we need to Be the military is famously nim exactly that way. You know, but they nor do they want to be humiliated the next time they have to go fight some. Well, I do think when you look at the defense authorization, the amount of money asked for requested for with drones, is up like some extraordinary percentage and that's not the memo from you that. Yeah, exactly. that's your Yeah. I mean, but it probably needs to be even more than that. Whatever it is, it's probably it probably actually should be more than Why are the Republican is the problem that Trump is facing in terms of closing a deal that Republican hawks on principle are dismay at the outlines of the deal because they recognize that A it will leave Iran in control of the strait. It doesn't sufficiently kill the nuclear program and keeps the hardliners in power. Like we all know that's They're going to be the outcome Why does it matter that Republican hardliners even even a tooty like Lindsey Graham is saying that? Why can't Trump does power through that Isn't Israel the bigger problem? I think Israel's the bigger problem. because Israel doesn't want any of that either. I mean, Netanyahu is getting grief from his right, which is maybe not surprising, but for being too soft on Iran I mean The so I think thered the problem the president has is with his ally in Israel in terms of the softness of the deal And somebody like Lindsey Graham would be consistent at some level ideologically with the more hardline Israeli position I think there's that So I don't really feel like there's a lot of pressure coming from Republicans on that front. He has started to see some pressure from Republicans on other fronts Allall room, slush fund because these newly defeated Republicans have suddenly gotten conscience that was previously not available to them when they were trying to win the primary races in their states U And I think some there's have been some reporting that Republicans are are unhappy with the way he's treated Cassidy and Cornan. You know, these allies, essentially of his who he nevertheless help defeat So I think that's where he's getting more pushback. I don't think he's getting and he's getting some pushback on basically blowing off the W Powers Act, But I don't think his main concern is grief from Republicans on not being hard enough on Iran Emily, is there a deal You're smart woman Is there a deal that people don't see that is different? I mean, you read somebody like like Bret Stevens, New York Times andit Bret Stevens answer is basically The only way to do this is the hard way. We just have to militarily defeat Iran by going to war against them that's the only way which it's an answer? Is there any answer that is not either that or Like we just got to cut a deal that gets them eighty percent of what they want and us twenty percent of what we want. I mean, I think the other possibility is that things are worse within Iran than we realize and that the regime is closer to cracking because of the economic devastation and that that's a real threat we can bank on And I think it's hard to see and I really doubt it because it seems like they know they just have to outlast us, which seems entirely possible since that's how America's presence in the region has worked for these many decades. But I mean, that seems possible that they are teetering and on the brink of collapse. And if we just hang in there a little longer, like that would happen. I mean, that seems like the way out for Trump that would actually be a victory Yes, you have to imagine like what does that exactly look like? and Is it you know, protests in the street. We know the IRGC has been holding drills to kind of U freshen up their baton swinging muscles in advance of such an outbreak. So there there's some evidence that, you know, they're at least worried about that. But like, okay, let's imagine that happens to do to well, and to overthrow The IRGC itself would require and this is a cliche about Iran, but like you need guns do that So It's not only okay, even if we imagine it did happen, it would be super messy. and who's left? And would that be sufficient for the US to be okay and just say, well, good luck to you all. You know it's like in other words, some of these outcomes have a lot of complexity associated with them that would be that the US would have to deal with the consequences of that We are joined by Alex Borris, who is a New York state legislator and now a Democratic candidate in the twelfth District. of New York State in Manhattan. It's a very safe Democratic district. So whoever wins the Democratic primary is all but guaranteed to be the next House member. It's the It's the seat now held by Jerry Nadler. and Borris is one of several extremely high profile contenders including Nepppo Kanda, Jack Slosberg and N Trumpper. laawyer George Conway. and Alex Borris has attracted an enormous amount of attention, pererhaps surprising himselfl. We'll find out if it's even surprised him. because of who does not like him. So a pro AI organization a huge pot of money, a super pack called Leading the Future has been throwing negative attacks about Alex Boris all over this district because seemingly, he sponsored a fairly ambitious New York state bill to regulate AI companies. But these attacks appear to be backfiring and have won for us a huge amount of attention. Era Era Klein's podcast this week and the GabFest. what a week U and a ton of contribution. So Alex, Boris, welcome to the GAFest. Why do you think leadeading the future is spending so much money attacking you. and why do you think it at least seems to be backfiring Well, thanks for having me. They are not spending ten million dollars against me because I have some crazy ideas of AI. They're spending it against me because I win They were very clear last year that they wanted no regulation on AI whatsoever So much so that the three main funders of it who are also Trump mega donors, Ben Horowitz, Mark Andrewon and Greg Brockman, Trump's single largest mega donor in his last filing got the president to issue an executive order trying to punish states for regulating AI saying that they would sue us, that they would find ways to take away funding And that it named my bill, one called the RAS Act, which happy to talk about the details of that as one of the many that it was targeting But we didn't back down. I got the bill passed. I got the governor to sign it, and it is the only bill in the country was targeted by that executive order that's been enacted into law since that executive order And so when leading the future looked around And so wait, a lot of people are talking about AI, but who's actually gone up against us in a legislative fight and won and passed a realil bow They saw I was the tallest blade of grass and they decided to try to make an example out of me Can we go down the AI regulation path a little further? So I think leadeading the Future says that they want federal regulation and not state regulation. tellell us about the bill that you passed, like what you think the way of handling AI safety should be. And then I realize this like federal claim may be fake, but would it be better to have a national law in some like ideal universe In an ideal universe, a law with Keith that was actually protecting all Americans, yeah, I think it'd be great to have a federal law that's part of my platform in running for Congress. Congress isn't getting anything done And they're certainly not getting things done on AI itself. And so when leading the future says that they want a national standard, what they really mean is they want national preemption. They want a law that says no state laws apply whatsoever. Be they know that in at least the current Congress, any bill with real teeth isn't going to pass at the federal level. So if they can block the states and they can block the federal government, then they don't have to have any regulation whatsoever So I put out a big platform on with forty three specific points of things that I want to do on it. Okay. can't say forty three Pick a few I won't yeah, I won't dive in, but it starts with kids. It starts with how we can protect kids with interactions with chat bots, what we need to change in the education system, both so that kids are still learning critical thinking and the skills that they're going to need. They're not offloading that to AI, but that also we are preparing them for the jobs of the future I actually a couple weeks ago on the bus bumped into someone I didn't know who said, Ohh, you're running for Congress, AI stuff. I was like, yeah. She goes, you went to Hunter High School, which is my alma mater. I was like, yeah, I did. I'm getting a little worried And she goes, no, I'm an English teacher there now And I love what you're doing because half my students are using AI and half aren't and I don't know how to shift them. But the scary thing is The ones that use AI have started to talk and write like AI The ones that don't are picking it up from the other students And their writing is starting to feel plastic and synthetic. And I don't know how to teach them the real skills of writing So there's a lot that we have to do on the kids front. The plan also talks about the labor force. I put forward an AI dividend plan, what we have to do on the environment. It's not like there's one universal bill There are many things we are going to have to keep updating if we're going to on a basic level, give Americans a say in the development of this technology and give them a stake in the AI economy Alex, I should probably disclose that I am a possible constituent. If he'ar some of your mail, I was just handed yesterday on the street. Where are some of the attacks? Do have some of the attacks? I do. I the attacks came in the in the mail, maybe and I can get around to those if we want, but All right what is more what I wonder is the idea, Alex, that all politics is local. and we'd hear so much about how one of Donald Trump's biggest problems is he's not paying attention to what people are really concerned about, which is either prices or the economy more broadly So U, Why is AI not something that's just really distant from people's daily lives as a way to appeal to voters and get them to vote for you I think there's two parts of that. One is it keeps impacting people's daily lives. You know, The conversations I was just having at a school this morning as parents were dropping off their kids was about AI and are their kids learning? It's the new grads that are coming out into a economy that just isn't hiring new grads anymore. The uemployment rate is something like forty two percent for new grads When people's utility bills rise, that's a direct impact on But more broadly You know, I like to talk about a whole variety of issues. I've passed thirty two bills in the state legislature and was named the most effective new legislator from New York City. Maybe four of those bills were about tech or AI It's just that this super pack has decided to make this race about AI. They are the ones saying that it's worth at least ten million dollars to them to defeat me, to send a message to every other member of Congress. And so They're the ones really raising it up in voters' minds who are then turning around and saying Wait, why are you spending so much against this guy Alex? What is at stake if we don't do anything about it? it's right in the world of regulatory capture. and if you look at industry The tax industry has prevented extremely desirable improvements and simplifications in the tax system. Like the amount of money and time we all waste on taxes is ridiculous in this country. it's because The tax industry essentially has made it too painful for legislators to to spend energy to change that Similarly, the crypto industry has made an enormous effort to defeat our cow legislators who want to regulate crypto. And now we see this with AI So what do you think happens to us as a country and to us AI as an industry if the AI industry is able to achieve what crypto and tax have achieved in aking it too painful for the political system to attempt to rain them in The most powerful and fastest moving technology of our lifetime will be decided by five billionaires This really is just a question of democracy. There are So many debates we could have about exactly what kind of regulation needs to be done, exactly what laws. There's really good natured debates we could have That's not where the battle lines are being drawn right now The battle lines are un weo any protection for people whatsoever. And maybe the difference with AI versus past pushes here is they only have to win for one or two election cycles the rate at which this technology is going, if there's no real protection for people in the next two to four years I mean, one of these companies could be worth thirty trillion dollars And let me the best power. Can I interrupt you on that, which is like you're going in best case scenario, you're elected, you join the House in whatever, january I know what year are we in? january twenty twenty seven. You're one member of the House who has had who's passed a bill the state level. said, you know, we have a couple of years to deal with this. How does that one brave member of the House U in the Democratic Party managed to get change help change this and help get the guardrails in place given that the the rest of the political system appears uninterested or raided against it Well when you see the political system not taking action, it's usually one of two things. One is the thing you want to take action on is actually not popular. People think they'll lose elections with their voters. or there's really entrenched interests that are extremely powerful pushing back against it. So let's look at AI Survey after survey shows eighty percent of Americans want there to be guardrails on AI. It is overwhelmingly popular. It's like the only technology that didn't seem to have a honeymoon period. It instantly hit and people were like, Wha, this is weird. Social media, everyone was so excited for a long time, you know, And then AI immediately, people were like, what's going on So it must be the entrenched interest, right? And you're seeing that. Now Andresen Horowitz is the largest spender on campaigns in the country And so when I get to Congress, it's not just me as one member of the House. It's me as the person that they chose to make an example of showhing that that example means you will win You will win elections. And in that sense, it unleashes every other member of Congress to also be pushing for the thing that is absolutely popular with their constituents. Like I talk to members of Congress and they quQiet conversation say, hey, we're watching this race But if I can just quickly, you know, it's not just about AI, you brought up the example of tax, which is a great one. One of the things I advocated for in the assembly and actually made a lot of progress on was having New York state do your taxes for you because the technology is there to do it. And New York State was one of, I think, four states built out a system to allow absolutely free filing. for both federal and state income taxes during the Biden administration. I worked with the governor's office I advocated for that to move forward And then of course, Trump canceled the whole program and rolled it back and canceled it. So it's not just that I've beaten the AI giants, but I have a history of standing up to these powerful interests and moving things in directions for the people So one of the weird things about your race being like a shadow or over AI is that you worked at Palanter, the in my view, kind of shadowy surveillance tech company. So why did you work there? What did you learn there? Why did you leave Can I just tack on the negative sorry Alex, can I just tack on the negative ad, which to Emily's question was about that too. So the mail that comes that's negative is like you said you left because they were involved in Iice, but you worked there while they were doing ice stuff. And your story about leaving because you were morally offended by what they're doing with Iice is is sort of a post hoc narrative Hilariously, that mailpiece was partially paid for by a co founder of Palantier, Joe Laonsdale. So the levels of cynicism in this race reach, you know, have no limits I joined Palter during the Obama administration to help government be more effective I worked with the Department of Justice to go after the opioid epidemic to hold the biggest banks accountable for their role in the Great Recession. while I was Leading that project, we recovered twenty billion dollars for taxpayers. I worked with veerans affairs to better staff their hospitals and give veterans the care they deserve and need. I worked with the CDC to better track epidemics And then separate from me in a project that I never worked on Palantir had a contract with a division within ICE called HSI Homeland Security invvestigations that focuses on at least insane presidential administrations, focused on drug trafficking, on human trafficking, on counterfeing, on things that we all think government should be doing And then when Trump comes in in twenty seventeen, he starts trying to change the nature of the work everywhere, including at the DOJ, where they asked us to work on immmigration matters, and I as the leader of the project said no because we had a contract that was structured where it was three mutually agreed upon case types. And so I was empowered to say, no, that's not what we're building this for. That's not how it should be used It went down slightly differently at Iice. where the palanter executives when pushed to allow this offer to be used for deportations for a while claimed internally that they weren't going to do that or had no knowledge of that, but eventually made clear to employees that, yeah, they planned to renew that contract and not put in any of the contractual guardrails that I had a DOJ and that I knew that they could have. And so when they made clear to employees that They were going to allow this very powerful technology to be used for deportations. That's when I made plans to qu So Alex, the What is there any merit to the argument from your opposition in the AI world? orr are they just trying to protect their profits when they come after you I think if you were to try to steal man their argument it would be that You know, any particular regulation or legislation that's being put forward right now seems very reasonable and fine and is passing with large bipartisan majorities when it actually is allowed for a vote But eventually legislators will do something dumb. and this technology is too important to let those silly little legislators get in the way. I think that's their argument. It's not about the particular RAS actct or what's in my plan. I mean, when I put out my plan, the chief futurist of open AI quote tweeted it and was like,, it quibbles around the edges, but this is the most thought out plan I've seen for any elected official. And so it's like it's not like they think that what I am doing makes no sense I think they're worried about what the follow on could be And you know Fair enough, there are like government sometimes passes bad laws Companies also sometimes do bad things, and that's why you need these laws And so, you know, I'm not willing to accept their premise that we shouldn't do anything because there might be something in the future that's bad I'm looking at the kids forming romantic relationships with chatbots and being like, We have to fix this now Loo at the labor markets that are being disrupted and whole industries with people being laid off and saying, we got to be prepared for this as a society. How are we helping to protect the dignity of work U I want to focus on actually solving the problems that are existing and that we know are coming not sort of getting in the way of potential future risky, it could it backfire questions Alex Boris is running for House District in Manhattan. And his primary is june twenty third, right right, Alex? Y Thanks for coming on to the Gapest Thanks for having me Let's go to cocktail Chatter Emily, the Baselon You and I had we chattered so much of our cocktails last week that I don't even know that you could possibly say anything to me that you didn't say to me a week ago, but try. I have new things. I have new things It happened in the world specifically. I have new things. Specifically, I am concerned about the US atttorney's office in Chicago. The main news that has emerged is that it had to dismiss one of the high profile cases against protesters who'd protested outside the Broadview IC detention facility near Chicago The reason the prosecutors dismissed these charges is that they basically falsified the grand jury transcripts. They had done some things with the grand jury they weren't supposed to do, including, it seems like pushing people off the grand jury who had been skeptical of other dubious cases they had brought. and then they redacted all this stuff out of the transcript, which seems shocking, except that usually nobody sees the grand jury transcript. So they clearly did this because they thought they could get away with it The judge soberly just said that she kind of couldn't believe that she was having to look at something like this. And the US attorney in Chicago who took responsibility for this, Andrew Butoutros, seems like there was real wrongdoing here to be concerned about. He also is in the news today Thursday because now we are also hearing that he is investigating Eugene Carroll for possible perjury charges. This is, of course, the magazine writer who accused Donald Trump of sexual assault and won a five million dollars civil judgment against him Clearly, the jury believed her and the idea that you would go and investigate her for perjury, I mean I assume this is just like a kind of um you know, fakery that is just like a way of distracting from the problems in this U. S. attorney's office in Chicago and a way of placating Trump, like other of these sort of revenge investigations and prosecutions that are all just like a way of showing that the Justice Department has utter fealty to him, but it's really, really troubling. I mean, each one of these things, whether they're real or fake, just is a degradation of how justice is supposed to work. And Its just depressing to see these particular U. S. attorneys make a run for, you know, trying to outdo each other in like how much they can go in this direction. Well, the acting attorney general is is doing what he can to outdo his predecessor in order to get the job, it would seem in a permanent way, so guidance is coming from the top. We should also can we bolt onto this, the ruling in the Kilmar or Brego Garcia case in which the judge found, in fact that there was a vindictive prosecution of Brego Garcia? And it was determined this but the judge determined this by because the charge was that the administration had engaged in a vindictive prosecution, which itself is a difficult thing, even to get to the stage where a judge can evaluate that is hard because the evidence re veryer high bar. There's a very high bar for evidence. So Abrego Garcia cleared that bar, which is itself extraordinary And then basically the administration saidays, no, no, there was no political influence. These were line prosecutors who made this determination about charging a Brego Garcia for something that happened in twenty twenty two in Tennessee, where he was charged with trafficking And they said driving with migrants in his car. Exactly. The judge said, Okaykay, well, then bring the line prosecutor forward who made this determination They didn't because they couldn't. I mean Beause somebody would already quit Yeah someomeone in that office had already left because they wouldn't stand behind these charges. And subsequent to that quitting, they nevertheless made that case in court that in other words, they lied in court. Secondly, there are emails that say that came out in this proceeding that showed that there was pressure from political levels on this. I mean, that's just Yeah D what's your chatter My chatter is about Schlitz Oh, sad So Schlitz was already the beer company, was already on its last legs. Paps Brewing is discontinuing the brand after one hundred seventy five years And the reason that intrigued me is that there was a story about after the Chicago fire of eighteen seventy one basasically leveled the north side of Chicago Joseph Schlitz, who was doing his business over in Milwaukee, saw an opportunity. So he basically sent a bunch of beer by barge to Chicago and handed out beer to the poor suffering people of Chicago and the rescue and relief workers who were trying to clear out the city. And so basically in this other entirely other city with its own huge beer reputation and history, most of which have burned down Schlitz gains a foothold in Chicago. develops this massive following tagline, the beer that made Milwaukee famous grows up out of this and in fact then decided not only to gain a foothold in people's hearts, but create beer houses that serve Schlitz exclusively. with the company's emblem and the goal and basically like, planted the flag in this other territory. That is a part of its history, which is now going away with its What's the company? What was the Schlitz slogan when we were kids? I'm trying to remember I mean, the only one I know is the beer that made Milwaukee famous is the but I don't know it maybe if it had another one the By the way The other great story about beer, maybe not great story, but the non alcoholic beer sales are up eight percent while alcoholic beer market shank. So the fastest growing beer doesn't have any beer in it or something like that It doesnn't have any alcohol in it.cool I know All right Myike chatter is actually a book that Anne Dickerson gave me as I was at the Dickerson house and I was looking for something to read on the train ride home And she gave me a wonderful book called Homebound. by a writer named Porsortia Alon and If you love Cloud Atlas. If you read that novel Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell, you spent you've spent a month bunch of your life going searching for books that are like Cloud Atlas. and you're like, I would like another book that's like Cloud Atlas. Homebound is a little bit like that. It It's a puzzle box of a novel. It is set in four time periods and follows for different women through various journeys that are conned in ways I'm not quite sure exactly how they're connected. And it has elements of it's got sort of a drowned world environment. So there's a posted apocalyptic Eth in it, like a little bit like New York twenty one hundred forty, that Kim Stanley Robinson book. It's a little bit like Cloud Cuckooand. It's a little bit like tomorrow tomorrow and tomorrow because it got of video game to it. So it' It's goods's good Yeah. It's a good book. It's good book. It's not's not it's not as good as Cld Alice, which is truly one of the masterpieces of our lives, but it is's a it's a really good book homeomebound by Portia Eon Listeners, you've got chatters You've emailed them to us Sabfest at sllate. com please keep them coming Please keep them coming. And this week's Listener chatter comes from a Citycast twwin Cities contributor and GabFest suuperfan who is one of the great entertainers of the twwin cities and somebody I've had a fun hang out with over the years, Tain danger My cocktail chatter this week is the story of Lloyd, Minnesota's most famous, yet loneliest turkey. This piece reported by Laura Ewen in the Minnesota Star Tbe tellells the story of Lloyd, a tom turkey that lives on Heather Benson's farm and actually gained a Facebook follow to more than forty eight thousand people around the world for his adorable yet sort of idiotic turkey adventures However, last year, the hen turkeys on Benson's farm passed away, and Lloyd fell into a depression Stop eating, stop strreding Benson worried he might actually pass away from sadness Lloyd tried finding replacements He humped a basketball It wasn't the same So Benson stepped in to try and find Lloyd a new love Would it work You'll have to read the story to find out But in so doing, you'll find a tale that tells you something. about what it means to want love What it means to be a good friend And maybe what it means to be human Even though you're learning it You should listen to other sllate podcasts too this week if you've got some time. And why not listen to deeath Sex and Money? I love listening to Death Sex and Money And this week Anna Sle talks to Alexis, a parent whose eight year old son has an anxiety disorder about what it's like to attend a therapy program designed for parents of anxious children. So children and anxiety, the parent child anxiety trap and a sale on death, sex and money That is all for our episode this week. We also have a bonus episode in your feed hopes and cyclical about AI Magnificent humanity, canan he change the discourse about AI We had a really good conversation about that. So you should listen,'ve I'm taping this after the conversation. It was a really good conversation So that is only for slate plus members who also discounts to our live shows, they get bonus episodes on other slate podcasts. and never hit the Paywallness slate site, but mostly this week you would get this wonderful bonus conversation. which you can only get if you're a Slate plus member, which you can become by going to the political Gabfest show page on Apple Podcasts and Spotify or going to slate d. com slash Gabfest plus to get access wherever you listen. That's our show for today. The pololitical Gabvest is produced by Nina Por Zuki, our researchers, Emily Ditto or Thee Music is by Theyight Giants. Ben Richan, senior director for P Podcast Operations, Mila Bell is executive producer of Slate podcasts. Hillary Fry is editor and chief of sllate for Emily Baslon, John Dickerson, I D Plotz. Thanks for listening. We'll talk to you next week