Maintaining Balance and Personal Sanity

This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK If you are currently overpaying on software to run your business Remember this number ten thousand That's the number of new businesses that join Odu per month Join Odoo today at Odoo. com at OdWo. com. How did a boycott Jimmy become a billionaire from posting videos? On good bad billionaire, we're gonna find out how the world's most popular YouTuber, Mr. Beast made his fortune. He's buried himself in a coffin for days, counted to a hundred thousand on camera, and even recreated squid games all in an attempt to go viral on the internet. But it all started when he gave a homeless man ten thousand dollars So is he a philanthropist reshaping capitalism? Or is he just the king of the attention economy? Find out on Good Bad Billionaire. Listen on bbc d. com or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to pololitical thinking big idea of the man who looks almost certain to be our next Prime Minister Andy Burnham deevolution The former mayor of Greater Manchester argues that taking more decisions away from Whiteall and away from Westminster doesn't just make for better policy could make us all richer. That is music to the ears of my guest on political thinking this week A man who's just himself got a very big new job As first Minister of Wales, is reap Europeth. The leader replied Cumry, the party which favours independence for Wales, and which won an election for the first time in its history ending a century of labour dominance One reason why Kst Armour was forced by his own MPs to leave office Eth. Welcome back to political thinking and I should say congratulations. Thank you very much, Nick, it's good to be here. You have experienced the whirlwind of going from opposition, from not having power to having it. We'll talk about what that means for you, but you got any tips for Randy Berer plan And I think we planned very, very carefully for coming into office and thats standing us in good stead. Now we weren't taking anything for granted, but if things did go in our direction we were ready to go and that's been proved true. Maybe he hasn't had much time to prepare Or maybe he has But without a plan, what's the danger? Well, there's a real danger of not being focused, not just yourself not being focused, but the people who will be holding you to account. So we produced a first hundred days plan for ourselves. So we knew the order in which we thought we needed to get things done in order to get the wheels of government moving on the policies and the ideas that were important to us. But it's also important that you tell people right this is what we're going to do hold us to account for it. I want my government to be a very open one. We have to be providing people the tools by which they can hold us to account. We'll talk more about what you're trying to do and the problems you're facing as well as some of the joy I imagine that you're still enjoying as well But let's talk about that personal joy, first of all, when you got the job For you, it must have been a hugely emotional moment. as we've talked before on political thinking, you know you grew up with this belief. in more power for Wales. And it's not just that I have always believed that There are hundreds of thousands of people who believe in Wales and wanted whales to spread its wings and who felt constrained by being led by political parties that ultimately had their bosses in London and could never really say, no, we're focused on you. We represent you. And when Clyde Comany did get that victory, which was a clearer victory than most of us could have imagined, even There was a sense of relief, of feeling we were right. We were right that we could unite Wales behind this kind of vision, which we did. every part of Wales. half of all our capitals, Senate members applied Cumbry, Senate members, the same for Swansea, then southeast, the northeast. This is Wales United. course There's a plurality of voices there too. It's a minority government and I recognize that in all I do. What're striking? That moment you're on the steps of the Sennh in Cardiff, the morning after the result, is suddenly they will break into song Do you have any idea that was going to happen that the Welsh National Anthem would ring out as you're meant to be taking questions from Jermnans? No, I have no idea. and to be honest with you, I didn't have an appreciation of the likelihood that that kind of event would take place on the steps of the Senate. We had asked all our members for a good result or a bad one to be in Cardiff by that Saturday morning so that we could potentially regroup and think what went wrong or hopefully, as we thought the weather was blowing in that direction, to have a bit of a moment on the steps of the Senate What I hadn't appreciated was quite how many people would want to be there to share that moment. I'd spoken with a crowd and then I asked them, can I have a little bit of hush, please because I'm going to do some interviews with colleagues from the press and I was doing those interviews when the anthem started and I had to politely say, you know what, I'm going to have to go and sing here. It was a moment and it was spontaneous and it was organic and it was beautiful And a moment for he was a human being because your dad was there. Now he wasn't just there to support you. He wasn't just there to sing the anthem Hed come with the keys to your flat? had. What was going on? Well I had, you know gone straight from the count and driven down to Cardiff via just popping in very quickly to a mate's house and put my bag down by the front door, back in the car and qu a long way people blew down now down two hundred miles the way. Yeah hundred miles. And I was just on the outskirts of Cardiff and I realized, oh no, keys to my flat' in theag and I How we going to get the keys? We' booked into a hotel. Beame a story, you know, new you firstirst Minister to be checks into to a sort of a budget hotel chain. Now I'm not sure what's wrong with, but we're checking into budget hotel chains. I do it all the time. But what I did was like, okay, well, dads might want to come down. In fact, we've got this photo up on the steps of the Senate. He might want to see that So I phoned him and said, Dad, would you like to come down and you know see that photo up? Yeah, why not? By the way, could you bring my keys down with me please Sly took in the keys. And the beauty of it to me is had the you know key gate not happened. He would have missed that moment on the steps of the Senod, which was a moment of joy for so many people who were there and the point I made there too, for the families of those who were not there. that moment when Plyd Cumry was able to bring whales together in forming a government. And I a lot of the people who've I know having talked to you in the past about the influence of your mother You would have been thinking at that moment, She can't be here. Yeah, but I wish she was. Yes. I certainly thought a lot about her and many other people who were there or who were watching on that wonderful Saturday. People appreciated the fact that I said, let's remember those who didn't witness this and it became a thing on social media people sharing photos of there the mothers or fathers who had campaigned and who weren't there to witness this. Now, I teased you last time we spoke about the fact that because you've grown up in a family in which they believed in Wales and particularly more powerful Wales, you'd even played shops, playled Cumry shops when you were four years old. and your dad said to the journalists on that day I didn't think he'd be playing for so long. No Serious question, you're not playing anymore. No. Youve got power Yeah Different to what you expected. What's better? what's worse than what you plan for? I mean, the intensity of it, I guess was I was expecting to a point, but then there's an added level of intensity that you don't quite recognize is going to be there. The sense of leading a machine that is there for you to do your work That struck me very, very quickly. A private office and civil servants, good civil servants who had until recently been doing their best for another administration, suddenly making it clear that they would do everything they could to deliver your vision. And I visited one of Welsh goovernment's officersices up in the north of Wales in Llandinor Junction just a few days after becoming F first mininister. and I remember asking a group of people there, what are you doing today? And they look to me and said, Well, we' We're doing what you asked us to do, where we're implementing your policy on the S sect. I thought W Now and yet there are some critics who say that unlike perhaps newew Labor when they came into par ninety seven and we had that shock of Bank of England Iependence. They've not yet seen anything that they think, Oh, that's what it was all about. That's the big Plyied Cumry Do you worry about that that there is no kind of signature policy that people can see straight away? No and I think it's a tad unfair, really. I mean peopleople can't have it both ways in saying that our childcare offer, for example, is so outlandously ambitious that we'll struggle to implement it and say that we've got really nothing that's too ambitious for whales. I mean the childcare offer is I didn't come to this to do easy things. I came in to try to do things that really push the boundaries of what a government could do, and not just in terms of finding the funding, but getting the people to do it and aligning all the policy objectives and so on. So I don't think it's a fair criticism. But there's an approach which is very, very different under applied Camary Government. There's a set of values from being a party that is focused solely on doing the right thing for Wales. It's interesting the language, you know there are plenty of people who loathhe that because they just say we're just as Wsh as we just not Oh this isn't about whether people are Welsh or not at all. You're Welsh if you wantan to be Welsh. and's as simple as that, that's as true for a politician as anybody else. And by the way, I don't for a second doubt the commitment of my predecessors in wanting to do the best for Wales What I'm saying is that there's an extra impetus, there's an extra bit of motivation when you're saying I don't have a boss in London., we're doing this for the people of Wales and that is it. And I think that really has resonated with people goinging from Bet of Wales, especially young people. Now the difference of course, between a first mininister in Wales, Scotland, ororthern London and a prime minister is you're always having to negotiate. you want more powers from them, you want more money. We'll come to that in a second I just wonder what you think will be the significance of this change. if it is as it looks almost certain to be, that Andy Bernam becomes Prime Minister. in what around three weeks time. Do you like what you're hearing? Do you like what you're seeing? Does he seem like a guy you can do more business with than you didnt K Starmer? I have said publicly if it is him and it looks likely to be him, I would hope that his experience of working within a devaolved structure in Manchester would make him appreciative of the pitches I would be making to him on the importance of funding, on making sure that we have the right powers in a deliverable way and so on and that he would recognise the challenges that I face as a leader in Wales that maybe he faced in Manchester. There are some troubling signs. I must say, he is not yet the prime Minister Before he's started, he's made a rather bad start in saying no, I'm not going to be looking at ne the funding formula through which Wales fundamentally gets its block of funding from the treasury Despite very, very clearly marking himself out on a number of occasions in the past as somebody's saying, you know what? we've got to get rid of this unfairness of funding. We should be tackling that as labour partarty. Well in power. Yeah, even before he come into power, you're saying that something he' consistently said, he was a Chief Secretary of the Treasury quite a long time ago, twenty odd years, but he was critical of that und form, Oo Barnet forma, he' changed mind. So it's a bad start even before he starts. And when you consider the criticism that was leveled so early at Kir Stama in his premiership that somehow he'd gone against the values that people had expected of a Labour prrime Minister, there's a real risk for Andy Burnham in being seen to shed some values and beliefs around devolution of funding that people would expect into put put in place I will say this though. I have as I did to KSara, my offer is genuine that I want to have a constructive relationship. It's not all about the bannet Fmula. I will make the case for that and it does need a changing, but there are other elements too around funding HS to rail, the way that we're able to set taxation powers, the borrowing powers and so on that we have as well as as further powers on policing. So there's lots to talk about, but a warning for him. Yeah we're keeping eye on him. We're not waiting for him to get the keys to number ten before the holding to account takes place. You became pretty frustrated may be angry with Kisamma pretty quickly. Well, we spoke in the early days of my leadership as firstirst minister and it was the kind of positive conversation that I wanted to have. I made it clear there were things that we needed to talk about and I was really keen to talk about them as quickly as we could. I laid out what my ambitions for whales were that they would be different to his, but there are things that he could do that he should be interested in around devolution Of course, we never got to have the meeting. And not even meeting There's that sense of, well, there are two things going on, thenick if we're honest. the instability at the UK level, you know I get that he had a lot of things on his plate that he was thinking about But the fact that for week after week after week, he could think, oh, it's okay for me not to meet this new first minister. I think it speaks to where Wales sits in the pecking order for successive UK prime mininisters and the UK establishment As I have made the case for for years and years. You've got quite a big decision to make, haven't you? which is how do you form that relationship? And in what style? So is it going to be the Quiet charm of Renab Yorth, Are you gonna to go back to your days as a nightclub bouncer? I'm kind to knock him about a bit. Oh my days as a nightclub bouncer was using the same quiet charm if I have any of it. it's all right being youi and have a quiet charm. It probably wouldn't work. There were taller ones than me, I can assure you, which is why I felt comfortable sort of just ting a little step back and being ready to step in with a Diplomatic words if needed to keep the peace. But no, I genuinely want to have a good relationship with the new Prime Minister. I want a respect agenda, but it has to work two ways. And when I hear somebody before coming into power saying, Ohh, by the way, I'm not going to talk about the way that you're funded when we have communities living in poverty and inequality is rife within the United Kingdom It's not great, but ly days. What's in it for him then? Because he might think Well, you're the leader of a rival party. You're one of the reasons Kar Starmer got driven out of office because you got rid of the Welsh Labour Party. If he's to win a such general election, he's got to wind you guys back again, hasn't he? I'm not sureing to mention it in interviews with you in the past Nick, but I've certainly spoken openly about it in that if Labour were to get a thumping in the election, I would say before the election. And since then I've said Having had a thumping in the election in Wales They can go one of two ways They can effectively punish Wales for daring to vote labour out of office and say rights That's it, nothing for Wales anymore, in which case, that's definitely the end of labour in Wales. O perhaps some reflection On why they lost that election and why the people of Wales had lost faith in labour? I would say that people have recognised that Wales isn't as important to the UK Labour Party as perhaps they had hoped Andy Burnham has an opportunity to show actually we do care a bit. Isn't there a danger when we're talking the day after you were in Dublin on your first foreign visit As first Minister of Wales Is there a danger that the focus is always on what London can give you? In Ireland, different situation of course, independent country. You'd be the first to point that out. In Ireland, the focus has been how do we make ourselves richer as a nation? And how do we cut taxes? Do we get American corporations in? What do we do to create what they call the Tiger economy? But how were they able to do that? Because they had the independence to take those decisions on their own and those economic levers that could help us really plow our own thurrough are held still by the UK government That's precisely why we want that power to be able to mold our own future. But it's not in isolation. And Ireland has flourished as a member of the European Union. I've come here today from addressing ambassadors of all European member states, talking about why to my mind Cparation across Europe is vital to a country like Wales. We'll look after our own nation. We'll look after Wales. The relations that we have with others when we do that vital and that means the relationship that we have with The UK center. I'd like a redesign of Britain And it means our relations with individual neighbourors like Ireland, but also collectively the European Union. There's a risk here, though for you, isn't there as the leader for the first time for Ply Cummery is that you spend the next few years saying, well if only we got more power from Westminster, only got more money, if only we could get back in the EU, look. It'll be fine But it's not because we're not starting where that we want to. And hopefully people watching my kind of politics closely will recognize that that's not the way I put forward the case for what we can do as a nation I am a pragmatist. Sometimes people use that as a compliment, sometimes they don't, but I am a pragmatist. I deal with what we have now. I will seek to do the best for Wales now with the powers that we have, with the funding that we have. Interesting, the most immediate task is one that you've kind of alluded to a couple of times is finding the money within the parameters you've currently got. Now, you don't do a full budget for a while, but you're having some discussions at the moment about what they call a supplementary budget since you came to Pan. It turns out it's not quite as simple as you thought in opposition, isn't it? Your finance minister said the outlook for the budget was challenging, more challenging than I expected it to be. Are you finding a bit of a struggle It is more challenging in that the in year pressures on health in particular are greater than people including us were led to believe I think how much build hundredundreds of millions of pounds of pressures. What we have pointedly done is to not say, I'm therefore, you know, all that vision that we talked about, you know,re going we're going to park that and blame the last lot We're not going to do that. It's up to the last lot. It's up to the last Labour government to reflect on the state of the public finances in Wales when they left office. But one of the big mistakes I think that Kar Stara made was to come into office. and he and Rachel Reeves say, There is a black hole in our budget. Well, I had been saying for months that there was a black hole in the budget. Everybody knew there was a black hole in the budget. They decided to pretend that they didn't know there was one and then use that as reason to do things that were contrary to the party's values. What we've said is, we'll just roll up our sleeves more and get down to work to make sure that we deliver what we said we would He's widely recognized as one of the greatest footballers in history. He's won the prestigious Ballondor Award five times. He's the all time leading goal scorer in professional football. and according to the Bloomberg Billionaires indndex, he's the first active footballer in history to achieve billionaire status. Guess who we're talking about, yah? That's right, goodood bad billionaire is exploring the life and fortune of icon Christiano Ronaldo. That's good bad billionaire from the BBC World Service. Listen now wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Now the big difference between you and Labour in Westminster is they've got a whopping great majority and you don't. Yeah fact you' got majority at all. There's never been a majority in the history of deus. It was designed in part to achieve that. voting system. You need the support of other parties and they think, don't they that you've taken them a bit for granted They complain that you've not really sat down with them, tried to woo and persuade them and that you sort of expect them to come on board if you learned something. So I mean anybody who would have watched the initial statements that I made in the SenEv and the responses to those first questions from party leaders and others, they could not have been left under any illusion as to how willing I was to be cooperative with others. I could not have been more clear. It's a political instinct of mine to seek common ground and to look for ways that we can But you can because at the moment you've gotven,'ve got labour, theories say without getting into the real weeds here who are saying that they want more money to go to special needs in Well schools and you're saying, well, that's not actually the way in which that money needs to be spent. Yeah Are you going to sit down with them? You? Well, the supplementary budget has been published now and it will go to committee now, it'll go to finance committee where there'll be discussions. And remember what a supplementary budget is, and it's definitely not about taking anybody's vote for granted It is about aligning the money that we have to spend in Wales with those things that we said we would set out to do in government, aligning our priorities with the money that we have to spend. That's all that's happening, essentially. Thether parties will have to think, okay, if somehow they are objecting to the supplementary budget, so they are objecting to putting one hundred forty five million pounds into health to make health sustainable for the future. They're objecting to putting fifty five million pounds into helping families with the cost of living crisis through childcare. These are the discussions that absolutely need to take place, but there's a responsibility on all of us, whether in government or on opposition to consider very carefully what the results are of our actions in voting. Just be clear, you're saying, are you that you're not hypocrite because there are some people who say, lookook, you complain Starm I wouldn't meet with you And yet you're not really meeting with the the opponents you now need to do. Oh of the meetings have tak place. I've met all party leaders, my finance miniss met other the finance spokespeople. Oh, no those my doororss open and the meetings are taking place. So absolutely. let's put that one to bed. Now you have to deal with a very different political situation, not just because you're in power Because for the first time in your life, The main opponents to Piedcomry are not the Labour Party. It is in fact, reform UK It's Nigel Farrich's partarty. Now I remember when we talked, you were a little bit Ies would suggest. Tubious that reform could do that well in Wales. Why did they do so well? They ran a pretty close second. They got almost thirty percent of the vote. They've got thirty four seats in the Welsh Senate. They are a big force now. I'll have to go back and look at what I said then, but I absolutely thought that all the evidence pointed to reform being able to get somewhere in the region of know a quarter to a third of the vote. That's where we were, that's where we had been for a while. I think what I'm Recalling is a conversation I had where I raised the issue of immigration. And you have talked about Wales being a nation that welcomes people. You talked about the fact there's no such thing as illegal immigration, you've said. And I talked to you about a particular man and you said you could persuade him Yeah Not to vote reform, you told me. by telling him not to turn against his neighbour. Well I remember yourour language, not his language. Yeah, I suspect or many other people's language, but under your description, that's almost a third of people in Wales have quotes turned against their neighbours. I remember that conversation and it was a real moment and he kind of almost apologized to me and said, you don't need to apologise to me I don't question what concerns you have about the community around you at all? O that no such thing as illegal immigration. What I mean by that, off course there's illegality in people outstaying visas. There's illegality in people smuggling. There's all sorts of illegality around immigration, but people moving in itself P peopleople aren't illegal. because I think even in your constituency, people have been arrested for quotes, illegal why people the system's out of control. And as I say, there are people who have broken the rules under which migration is dealt with within the UK and it's a system that is broken. The focus has been, hasn't it in recent years on people, on individuals, on othering other people or communities. somehow suggesting that groups of people because of where they're from or the color of their skin is somehow illegal or people by fleeing war are illegal. It is not illegal to flee war. That's the kind of question around illegality. But of course, these are complex, complex issues And one of the challenges that we face globally in politics currently political rights suggest that the answer to those issues are very, very simple. They are not. Do you have to listen more though to those sorts of voters and their concerns? One, as you know, of the new members of the Sith a reform member made a controversial speech the other day where he asked a question which I suspect many voters in your constituency would ask, which is why are we employing nurses from India rather than training them here in Wales That was done in a way to be provocative. It's clear, I think it's fair to say that he wanted to get his speech clipped up on social media for saying something controversial But a lot of the members of your party simply walked out. I went not listening to this, they said Don't you have to listen, notot just to him, but to people who will share those views. The the same the same member made a full speech a few days previously. But I'm putting it in context. and you know it's not our place to walk out and not be a part of political debate. It's to answer back is to make our case for something more positive. but I absolutely understand why people feel a sense of distress around that kind of abrasive political discourse. It is difficult at times in a parliament where there has been a fundamental level of respect in the language used over the years to have that broken down difficult for people to see, but our challenge is is that because potentially because the assembly as it was, the Parliament, the senor, as it now is whizz in what some people call a cardiff bay bubble. Ls of people and let's be honest, people say of the people who work at the BBC, lots of people who go to the same restaurants, go to the same dinner party, as we'll talk later all know each other, you know went to the same universities, got the same friends. Also, this is what decent people, Welsh people think So isn't the evidence of the polling and the elections? That isn't what they think. Totally get that. And I guess there was a sense of backlash in this election after twenty seven years of one party having been in power and the realization, hold on. It doesn't have to be sort of sort of insular in this kind of way. We can have a bit of variety here. and as I say, I understand why people wanted a change. And that is one of the ways that the political right has been able to grow through just saying their difference. Now as it happens, we in Wales could offer different in another way through Plydecumry, a hundred year old party that people respected and liked, but for whatever reason they decided to stick with the establishment in the past, but This was an election where the establishment was gone Reform took one part of it on the right and the sort of anti if you like establishment, Plied Comany took the other part. So yes, people are right to not want us to live in a bubble. And it does mean us having to listen always to real concerns that other people have. But people cross the line, don't they? from having real concerns to betraying other values and views that should be consigned to political history. Well, arguably that happens on both sides of politics. I mean, you had some candidates in the election onene of whom described Winston Churchill as a genocidal racist who argued for people being jailed for supporting Israel extremism doesn't exist on one side of politics, is it? Oh, and it's something that I have always maintained. We need to read from our politics always. Our strong, strong views in support of the people of Palestine after the horrific, you know, genocide in and I do use, you know that word because that's what it was genocide in Gaza, but you know, I was very, very careful and I am careful and my party' careful to in absolutely no way allow ourselves to be drawn in what some people would like, perhaps, is to say that this is an anti Israel thing. It's not It's absolutely an anti current Israeli government thing, but I feel for the Jewish communities in Wales, for the pain that they're going through because of the growth of anti Semitism and so on pulled coming together and finding that common ground and tolerance, tolerance between us. Even that word you know genocide. provokes upsets, angers, enrages, people are no supporters of Benjamin Ny who they say there's no court that has shown his genocide. E is potentially up between before ater. we all We all saw what happened thenic Okay, you think it's pling, but you accept That some people feel that you are anti Israel in the language. No no, no, no, no, I just said it's not anti Israel at all. and no, I'm putting G that not everybody will accept. But I no, I feel for the people of Israel under You're not actually responsible for foreign policy as the Welsh First Minister. You have a stake in presenting whales You've just been to see those EU ambassadors here in London I suspect they'd be a bit surprised, wouldn't they if you said We in my party don't believe increasing spending on defense. Despite the threat from Russia, we're opposed to increasing the spending on defense. Is that still your view? No, we haven't said that. we are wide eyed as all of us have to be nowadays in recognizing that the threats that we face a changing, not just changing in nature, but changing in intensity We are living in a dangerous world and we recognize that In order to address that threat, we have to use resource well and making sure that we have But long ago, you had a manifest that said you were opposed to it, wasn't it? mean You used to oppose it, and indeed, you don't support membership of NAT Again, the NATO one isn't as straightforward as that. We have never called, for example, for the UK to pull out of NATO You know I do believe that we work better together and that has to mean in defense terms too. And remember also Nick that youah Clyde Cumry as a party that believes in the future of Wales is a party that believes in dealing with the realities of today's Wales and the realities of the threats that we face and you know, we're not somehow frozen in time as a political party. and we have to recognise the changing face of the world in which we live. But we're an internationalist party, a party that believes in peace and pursuing that in every possible way that we can And sometimes that also has to mean Deend ourselves, doesn't it? You've stressed that you want to see Wales coming together. You want to represent all Welsh people Have you listened to My colleagues on radio five Lve here at the BBC Play the game Cumry Connection. Yes Alice James It's a wonderful game. The ones that I have heard. he does remarkably well. It doesn't perhaps alogether surpr surprise me knowing how Wales works. What he does for those people who don't know the game is he has a challenge, doesn't he? Sbody wins in and they've got a minute in which he can ask them questions and in the space of that minute, he has to prove that he knows someone That they know. It's an extraordinary thing and he pulls it offful a lot the time, It does. Yeah, it's the sort of you know three or whatever four or five degrees of separation that we have from everybody else in the world and the notion that in Wales, it's just one degree of separation. and it's something that can be frustrating sometimes if you want a little bit of peace of quiet and to escape You'll always know somebody nearby in Wales, so there's no escaping, whichich is wonderful as well, isn't it? Because there's that sense of common venture that comes from that too. Is that a strength Or is it also a potential weakness? You know, that it looks as I was saying before like a bubble. I don't think it does. Maybe the way that you're thinking about it reflects the fact that you've come from a different nation to the one that I do. I come from a nation of around three million people And I am putting it to you that most nations of around three million people would be the same as Wales, where there's more of a chance than if you're in a nation of fifty million that you will know people. And they say, you know, when you meet somebody on holiday, yeah, the question might be between two English people, what do you do? And you look for commonality in what you do as a profession, perhaps. in Wales, where are you from And we know where that's leading It's right, Oh yeah, I know so and so from there or you know, I've been there. So that sense of belonging to your community on one hand, but to that wider community of communities that we know as Wales is something that's very strong. So I'm going to add a new suggestion for your first hundred days in power Cumry Connection should become a Welsh national sport. There we are. Ellis James will be the undoubted champion. Would he be allowed to play even? I'm not sure. Yeah, sure. You can elevate him to that. He could be the judge of it all.. We talk when we first began this conversation about the fact your diary can be full in this job. Just finally, how'd you keep yourself sane? How do you keep yourself not? constantly looking at papers and whatsApps and what's coming up next? I am able to switch off. I'm able to sleep well When I am with my wife or with my grown up children when they're at home, you know I can forget that I'm the first mininister of Wales and you know, pick up the guitar or go out and mow the lawn or go for a spin on my motorbike or whatever it might be. and I can switch off. The amazing thing then, especially in these early days is that then I remember, goodness me, I'm the first mininister of Wales every now and then